Cleaning the Emco - halfway there
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- Опубліковано 1 жов 2024
- I have started stripping and cleaning the lathe. The tailstock, compound, cross slide, feed rod and lead screw are now clean. The cross feed screw bearings have been replaced. The bed has been started on, but there's a whole lot of grot inside the bed casting!
/ craigsworkshop
craigsworkshop.net
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Beautiful lathe Craig, looks like no use at all, my new lathe looks more worn the the emco, the new bench top is working out very handy, I bet your glad you made that, looking forward to see what you decide to do with the electrics, take care mate
Thanks Matty. It's all elbow grease and scrubbing for the next couple of days! 👍 The new bench was not really for putting machine parts on! :)
The Emco looks to be good condition. My tail stocks also MT2 and I had to clean the taper using a MT2 reamer. It worked a treat and now grips tooling really well. Regards Kevin
Yes it's a nice one. With the taper, I am undecided at the moment. It's quite badly scored and gouged, but it seems to grip a morse 2 shank very well. I guess I'll see how it goes. I was able to deburr the keyway on the ram so it can't be too hard. I could perhaps taper-bore it with a very slow feed. Good idea do you think?
@@CraigsWorkshop Maybe or maybe not a good idea to either ream or bore it. While it sounds like it's an unhardened Morse Taper with that scoring, it's still not impossible it was at least lightly hardened. I've reamed a couple of MT's. One thing to never forget, a thou or two extra reamed into the bore results in a large increase in how far the male taper then goes into the bore. Go even slightly too far and then the male tapers start hitting the tip that ejects them. And a MT reamer will tend follow how the existing hole that guides it. Those ridges from the score marks tend to offset the reamer a bit so it doesn't exactly follow what was originally correct.Taper boring? Again you have to be very careful about how much is removed. MT's obviously hold by a wedging action, the closer the tapers fit and the better the finish is on each surface then the better they hold. That's why good MT tooling always has finely ground surfaces.Getting an accurate matching angle for boring while not impossible, is only part of it. Ideally a tool post grinder would be a far better method simply due to the much better surface finish. If the bore is scored badly enough it's doubtful it will fully clean up. Those low spots will reduce the holding force by a bit, but hopefully not enough to really matter.
I've watched a few YT videos where some seem to care little about ramming in scored up or seriously rusty MT drills and other tooling. That female taper and all of the tooling tapers really need to be treated like a fine Swiss watch. Repairing damage where new replacement parts are no longer available is either very time consuming or highly expensive when having to pay others to do the work. For as little other wear on the lathe as it seems to have it's a real shame the previous operator treated it so poorly. While maybe not of Schaublin status, the V10's and Super 11 lathes were still a very fine and quite expensive light duty tool room class of lathe. Likely that one was an earlier V10 model since I believe the later versions had lever operated cam locking tail stocks. At least the Super 11's did, but I could be incorrect about those V10's.
Thank you for the info turning point. You are right about the reamer following a worn taper. What I may do is turn up a short test bar (and tweak with bearing blue until I have a good angle for the male external taper), and measure the alignment of the existing worn taper compared to the bed. If it is nicely aligned, I needn't do anything because it does hold onto a tool nicely, despite being damaged.
I just did a Dean Smith and Grace lathe using WD40 .... cures everything.
:-) it does work pretty well for cleaning.
Good job....2.50 min.....you could use some special way oil for that and all of the lathe, cause these oils have an anti-stick component in it that prevents the stopping when you put pressure on screws or ways and so on..they come in different viscosities,but i think you knew that. Regards.
That's a good idea. I have not been able to get true way oil locally, in anything less than a 20L drum. I have heard that Glenn (at Mancave Metals in Victoria, Australia) is going to buy in quantity and break it down for sale to hobbyists. So I may be able to get some of the proper stuff soon.
I have the various viscosities of oils in different labelled oil cans, since my previous lathe (Hercus 9A) needed three different types of oil regularly.
Cheers,
Craig
@@CraigsWorkshop Thats the oil i use...if you don´t mind buying in Germany...medium viscosity.
www.ebay.de/itm/Bettbahnol-1-x-1-Liter-Flasche-Gleitbahnol-CGLP-68-nach-DIN-51502-ISO-3498/162909571090
@@mftmachining Thanks man. If the local supplier doesn't pan out, I may consider it. Cheers, Craig
The lathe looks in good condition it's cleaned up well. Don't get oil on or ding you new workbench top lol. Tony
😁 ok I will be very careful
That's a very nice looking lathe. I would like to find a nice little project like that, unfortunately, those are very scarce in my region. I seem to only find things that have to be shipped a very long way and many times hard to tell what shape it is in. I enjoy these kinds of project videos.
Cheers from Canada
p.s. Looking forward to seeing your bench build
Thanks bhein. Those lathes are impossibly rare here in Tasmania too. I'm amazed that it came up at all. More on both the Emco and the workbench soon.
Craig,
Early indications are that you've mad a very good purchase...
Take care
Paul,,
Thanks Paul. Seems great so far, fingers crossed for the rest of the cleanup and inspection.
Hello Craig,
Finally got round to having a look at your new lathe, been a bit busy! They are a lovely lathe, you won't be disappointed, worth every bit of effort you put into cleaning it. I have a bit of a problem with mine, hopefully be doing a video soon, but life is getting in the way of my fun!
Take care,
All the best,
Cliff
Hey Cliff thanks for dropping in mate. Yeah it's turning out to be a lovely lathe so far. Looking forward to finishing the cleanup and getting it wired with the VFD. Sorry to hear you've had a problem with yours. Interested to see about that in a video. Thanks and stay safe. Cheers, Craig
We had one new . Went well . Was replaced with a hecus , 260 hardened bed the hercus was a huge surprise could not believe how good it was . We all used the hurcus.
I had a Hercus too - a good machine, but I sold it on when I got the Premo. I currently have the Premo and now the Emco. Cheers, Craig
Nice job Craig, looking great. Going to be a nice lathe.
Thanks Randy. It seems to be going well so far. I am looking forward to finishing the cleaning and wiring and doing some test cuts. 🙂
Thats a ripper score Craig. Yep it deserves the time to clean it up, thats part of the enjoyment of something second hand, you can really get to know its little idiosyncrasies when you pull it down.
Cam
Thanks Cam. I am learning quickly with this one! I've just finished stripping and cleaning the carriage and re assembling with lube. Working on the bed now. How can such a small lathe hold such a lot of chips? 😂 Thanks, Craig
Very nice Craig! Wish i had something like that folllow me home without the wife blowing a gasket. 😁 Nice clean up. Thanks for sharing
It did come close with the gasket thing!! 😂
I have found that if you give her jewelry that will distract her so you can get the new machine into the shop. LOL
Thank you, 😊 great idea!
How's your lovely looking work bench coming along Craig hope to see the videos soon
Hi Richard. The bench is still in progress. This lathe came as a bit of a surprise, and so I have been sidetracked for a few days. Once it was in the door, cleaning it up became the biggest and ugliest job on the list, so I have dived into that job. I'm about half way through now and only have a couple of days to go, then back to the bench build. The bench top is very nearly complete and the base/frame will be next on the list! Stay tuned to see more. Cheers, Craig
That's looking good already!
Thanks. Have made a good start, but lots still to do.
The Emco 10P has a great reputation, and your looks pretty much pristine, except for the surface rust and grime.
If it interests you, I "think" (not sure) the 11P simply has a set of risers under headstock and tailstock - they may actually just have thicker bases as cast. The 13P has a bigger bed, but we can lose ourselves in our dreams, can't we 8-)
I have an older cousin, the Emco Maximat Standard 10, that I'm slowly bringing back to life, including a much-needed bed grind. I hope I haven't stuffed things up by sending the bed for induction hardening of the ways - they were a bit soft originally. I found another one in almost pristine condition - bought by the seller's grandfather for his retirement in the '60s and hardly touched since. That one cost me more in fuel cost to fetch it than the asking price of the machine!
Hi Russell. The 10V-P shares a headstock with the smaller lathes, the 7, 8, 8.4, 8.6 series. The 8 compact and 10 compact are a different design (belts not gears), and the super 11 and V13 share a larger headstock design. So unfortunately, without some redesign work, this is pretty much a fixed size lathe. Not a problem though, I do have a heavier built lathe as well which has a better capacity for larger jobs. This emco is designed to be a lightweight but precise lathe - I think it will do very well as is!
The induction hardening of the bed sounds very interesting. Would love to know how that goes for you. Also you were very lucky to find the pristine untouched one! :) Cheers, Craig
G’day Craig. It’s looking good, cheers. Peter
Thanks Peter!
Should be a good little lathe . Cheers .
Thanks Max 👍
As you say the original switches are pretty sketchy, as is thier position ,having to reach to the back of the headstock isn't the best idea ...
The motors also run very hot ,
I replaced my motor with a 1 horse three phase one run through a vfd and mounted switches below the gearbox, much more user friendly i think 🤔
Exactly my plan too! I might still put the control gear at the headstock but a little further away from the chuck perhaps. I have already got the 1hp 3ph motor and VFD wired on the bench. Just to adapt it and make a suitable pulley and control gear box. I don't want to give away my entire next episode though 🙂
Nice lathe Craig.
Thanks Randy
I restore early 1900s lathes, shapers and drills, that lathe is in excellent shape. You should have a great lathe when reassembled. Great job
Thanks Kentucky. Both my previous lathes were in need of a big clean up when I got them. This Emco is definitely in the best mechanical shape so far though. Very pleasantly surprised. Thanks for commenting. Cheers, Craig
So far that unit is in good condition internally, that's awesome! Looks like it will clean up to a very useful machine for you.
There's another cleanup vid coming soon - I have now finished the carriage and apron, and the bed is spotless inside and out. Just some oil changes to do on the headstock and the change gears to clean up and then we'll have another episode to share I think. Thanks for all your good comments Everett! Cheers, Craig
Nice little Lathe! You don't need to replace the motor, Just add the Vfd and use it wired at high speed! The "[emcoV10lathe" lathe group has a lot of stuff on VFDs might be worth joining them for that! Cheers, Matthew
Thanks Matthew, I recognised your name (unless I'm mistaken) in the Emco V10 groups.io group? 🙂
@@CraigsWorkshop Whilst you were replying, I added the bit about the "[emcoV10lathe" group! Yes it's me! I have a Compact8, that I got without a motor, I got it without the motor, a nice Aussie was giving away a V10 motor and switchgear, so I have experience with that! I made a lay shaft to run it at 1/3 or 1/1 which I've only ever run 1/3 reduction. I'm curious to see how yours works out! By the way it's only the switch gear that have a bad reputation! The motor's fine!!
@@MatthewTinker-au-pont-blanc thanks that is great to know. I have a 1HP VFD ready to go and if the motor is suitable to run on 240V phase to phase then I can just go for it. If not, I have a 1hp three phase motor I can use. I had earmarked it for a diamond grinder for carbide but I have other ways of making that work.. cheers, Craig
New machine is always welcome, wishing you many happy project on it Craig! Cheers
Thanks John!
It all looks really nice
The slotted boring table and flat surfaces everywhere will be useful for indicator mounting too
Yeah that's good thinking. I keep meaning to put a quick change dovetail block onto an indicator. Haven't got round to it yet though! Cheers, Craig
@@CraigsWorkshop A mag base should work well anywhere on that machine. My lathe has all curved surfaces so mag bases are a bit unstable unfortunately
@@CraigsWorkshop PS I have some MT2 reamers
@@TomMakeHere Ah cool. A reamer would (probably) come in very handy for sorting out the Emco tailstock taper.
I would think a sharp morse taper reamer would be a Much safer option than attempting a taper bore without a taper turning attachment.
The 'dints' don't matter, other than appearance, it's the lumps that hinder contact, therefore grip.
Helluva score Craig! Nice little machine 👍😁👍
Hey Chris. Thanks, it was a very lucky find! Cheers, Craig
Looking good and got a few views thanks for posting it
Thank Joe. It was a good idea of yours to post some interim videos. There will be more to come, as I dig deeper into the machine. Cheers, Craig
Looks like a nice pickup Craig.
Thanks - more videos to come as I make some progress. It needed a really good cleanup, and it's taking a while to do.
Congrats Craig! Video quality looks great too 👍🏼
Thanks Yuchol. It improved a lot after our lighting and camera discussions. Thanks again for the assistance 👍👍
Omg! You're so lucky to find that little gem.
I have been searching all of Canada for a score like that with no luck.
Enjoy
Fingers crossed for you Rick :-)
I told you it looked like it would be fun to clean that lathe, and it's always nice to be surprised by the condition of everything. Also a very nice showcasing of that benchtop in the works, cheers!
Thanks howder1951, you.were right 😉
Congrats on the lathe! It's a good one. All the best with the restoration! Looking forward to seeing your progress. ;)
Thank you Arnaud! I am enjoying the process and I will be capturing some more footage soon for another video update 🙂 Cheers, Craig
looks like a sound investment
Thanks Richard. It's cleaning up well.
@@CraigsWorkshop what kind of qctp are you gonna go for? and a dro?
The DRO is suddenly much less urgent, because I have metric dials now, and zero (or close enough) backlash. With the premo lathe I have run it for the last year or two with no DRO and imperial dials. :-)
I am a fan of the aloris/dorian style toolpost. I use a bostar branded one on the premo, and I'd like to keep to the same system. I'll have to measure up and find out how the centre height compares to that on the Premo.
I could put my AXA toolpost on the emco, and put a BXA on the Premo - I think that'd be better suited to the lathe size, but I don't want to spend too much money on all the toolholders!
Cheers,
Craig
I think you have a real gem there Craig. Thanks for this one and looking forward to future videos on the lathe. Cheers, Alan.
Thanks Alan! More cleaning to come.
@@CraigsWorkshop It will be well worth the effort, I would imagine that Emco will like like new when you've finished with 👍👍
It will at least be clean 🙂
Looking good.
Just found VFD on Emco:
m.ua-cam.com/video/FfSlu_xRN7o/v-deo.html
Cheers Carl. I will have a look.