Just realised that I missed out Hugo which happened just before he took out Kate's father, Tom Lockwood! 🤦♂Completely slipped my mind! Actual total for Joe is 18 💀
Please.. Who was Hugo again? And without rewatching season 2. What happened to loves brother? Or did I miss that? 😅 I'm confused with so many murders Hahah
I feel like the reason Love is considered crazier than Joe is because she killed more innocent than guilty or morally evil people. Now that has changed.
Can't believe this man not only is going back to his original name Joe Goldberg but he also has a bookstore again and he's back in New York if this show gets a season 5 it's going to be crazzzyyy.
omg I didn't even realise he got 2 innocent people in prison aswell! the amount of lives joe has ruined (including victims families) and murdered is insane
I think it works well for the narrative to really establish that he's past rationalizing his killings as morally righteous. We really go "fuck, that was gratuitous!" and it's such a shift from his previous MO... But yeah, it was still really sad to watch him just lying there. Poor guy just wanted to help his girlfriend lol
I'm glad they did this in this season 4 part 2 It's not healthy the way we came to actually like him despite knowing the things he did this was because we only saw things through Joe's point of view and internal dialogue. Season 4 part 2 was a complete reality check. We see Joe for what he actually is, a highly dangerous and complete and utter psychotic serial killer.
Thank youuu! Too many ppl are upset that in part two Joe becomes to us what he truly always was and that we see him without the charm that blinded us through all the prior seasons
I never liked Joe- I felt sympathy for his past. But as soon as the woman in his life made a mistake or slipped up in his mind that was it for him, he was looking for someone who could never exist nobody is perfect- When Love held a mirror up to him by showing him they really are the same he couldn’t handle that because in his mind he too was perfect he was perfect and everything he had done, was because he had to do to protect, to prove his love, to show what a hero he is to the women in his life. I did really like Love tho I was gutted when she died
It's not unhealthy to like a fictional character, even if they are evil. I get the criticism around people romanticizing serial killers, but there's nothing inherently bad or unhealthy about liking a villain. Hell, people love Disney and comic book villains and a lot of them are just straight up sadists or genocidal lol
@@mariaah3073 liking a villain is different from not seeing a character as villainous and condoning every action, despite the fact that said actions are tremendous violations of law. That is unhealthy indeed.
You wanna know what’s interesting, in an interview for season 4 part 1, Penn Badgley was asked of Joe’s kill count and he said he couldn’t remember. The interviewer stated that many fans said it was 10, and Penn cheekily replied “If everyone said its 10 I’m gonna say its 13”. In part 1, there’s 3 killings that supposedly Rhys killed in part 1, yet turns out its Joe. Penn’s spoiler is always just very smart.
I hate him now because of that. My heart broke for Nadia. She lost someone close to her, and completely innocent, and ended up getting framed for it all at once. She deserves Justice next season.
I like how Joe started off as a villain then slowly wanted to descent into a antihero and now he's a full on evil being. I kinda feel bad for him, he really wanted to change himself and in the process that broke his mind and lost the good side of him forever.
Joe's KC - 18 Love's Final KC - 5 Breaks down like this Season 1 - Joe (5) [Average of 1 kill every 2 episodes] Season 2 - Joe (3) & Love (3) [Average of 1 kill every 1.6 episodes] Season 3 - Joe (2) & Love (2) [Average of 1 kill every 2.5 episodes] Season 4 - Joe (8) [Average of 1 kill every 1.25 episodes]
I wanted to comment that you forgot Tom Lockwood's bodyguard :)). I do believe that Joe decided above all to keep Nadia alive, else he would have killed her first and then go for the boyfriend too.
He doesn’t need to be tortured lmao. He needs to be locked up and he needs mental help. He doesn’t kill people for fun, he kills them because his obsession over random women forces him to behave irrationally and makes him delusional at times
I dont think Joe killed Beck because she didn’t want to be with him but rather because she was about to escape and he was seriously injured so killing her was the safest move
Wow, you’re right, I had no idea about Henderson’s actor having accusations of sexual misconduct and predatory behavior, but it’s certainly tragically ironic. fjodjfowkdöqnsöqndöwnsöq, glad it’s come out, at least
Season 4 part 2 made me really hate joe even though I knew he was always a psycho his fight with wanting to be good an reform himself made me not dislike him as much, but after the end of season 4 he fully embraced his dark side and is now actively an evil man out in the open partnered up with Kate whom I know is bat shit crazy.
He was phyco in season one its just he was able to hide it better. He basically lies to him self and audience. There is no one he won't kill, he has not limits. He proved that after killing Beck.
He only killed bad people? What about Candice and Beck from literally season 1? And don’t give me that „but they cheated so they deserved it“. They didn’t. And anyone has done bad things, but breaching the law and destroying life’s in/directly is mentally ill/evil.
@@Parvahti no one is saying they deserved it. I think they were referring to Joe always rationalize it and making the viewer feel as if he wasn’t totally bad. We tend to catalog him in a grey area because he has done more bad than good but a lot of times is in the name of something “good”. He tricks us into forgetting all the innocents with his three good deeds in all the series.
@@noplans1 no one said beck deserved it, people are saying that it MAKES SENSE for joe to kill her because she knows his truth and was about to expose him. So in self defence, he had to kill her.
I think the show is a metaphor about the way we justify our bad habits to ourselves. If it was really about murder, then we wouldn't relate to Joe (assuming we're all not murderers), but some people do only because they're trapped into seeing everything from his emotional and mental state. This is also why we don't really sympathize with killers in real life and other shows/movies where they're presented in the third person, because we're far removed from their internal world and only judge them from a distance. But Joe is relatable not because we're also killers, but because we go about life in a similar way, putting up a front in almost all areas of life while taming a wild train of thoughts and emotions going on inside of us. This is especially the case when we do something bad (cheating, stealing, lying, deceiving, lusting) because we rely on similar internal monologues to alter our perception of these actions, but only to ourselves. We wouldn't get the same level of assurance if we relied on others to understand the desires and temptations that make us do these things, so we redirect our energies inwards. The show is relatable because it makes us feel good about every time we justified to ourselves an action that we already knew was bad and inexcusable. The murder is just a dramatization of that I believe.
Hey! That's actually a very good point. I think we all feel this way by justifying our actions with feelings and thoughts. Maybe I think no one ever does something that may be considered socially bad just for a bad purpose, we all have our reasons and maybe fall into "no other possible option or solution" and that's why we do it. Not talking about murder tho, but as you say, smaller acts that can cause some harm to other ones or even to ourselves. Maybe it's time to stop justifying our actions and embrace who we are in order to become better persons (the opposite as Joe, who simply became a monster united to his evil side 💀).
@@abigailtorresvellojin5902 Thanks for your comment. I feel like intentionality is harder to establish though. Joe is definitely portrayed as being more innocent, a victim of circumstance and bad luck, but if he were more evil (like someone who actually enjoys killing), the result would be the same, no? A person with evil intentions also carries some kind of intellectual dialogue with themselves to stay sane and believe they're doing something reasonable or morally necessary (While I don't recommend this movie because of how graphic/violent it is, Lars von Trier's "The House That Jack Built" is an example of this). But I think the show is primarily focused on individuals with non-evil intentions and uses murder as a kind of exaggeration of their misdeeds, because dealing with the consequences of that makes for a more exciting show.
It’s one of the most popular shows on Netflix, and the season 4 finale set it up perfectly for another season. As long as they can make money and the storyline makes sense, they’ll keep it going.
Because of all the things Joe has done, it’s hard to root for him, but his charming and seductive personality makes it so hard to hate him 😂 Maybe he will neet his fate in season 5.
Ted Bundy was also deceptively charming. Rewatching the earlier seasons I'm amazed how the writers tricked us into liking, even rooting for Joe. His internal monologs are so tremendously delusional.
The thing that interests me is that, Joe is not a very careful killer, he’s impulsive and emotional . Not all of them are very planned out and have multiple holes. You would think that only pure genius would get away with as many murders as he did, but that’s not the case. He makes it look quite easy and simple. Which makes me wonder how many serial killer are out there that aren’t caught yet.
Joe not getting caught yet is not at all a surprise. Dexter got away with a lot more killings. Especially, during the reboot. The only way to stop him was for him to die.
@@kidkhy1864 to a degree yes but everybody he’s killed is an idiot cuz he’s an idiot 😂😂😂 (btw I got a theory he has cte lowkey and that’s why the hallucinations are more frequent to the point he created a physical version of his sub conscious aka Rhys) remember when Ron gave him a concussion he never was treated for it cuz he never went to the 🏥🤔
I don’t actually understand why he came up with the story of him being a victim of Love when clearly there are many witnesses of his craziness that are still alive. Maybe people like Nadia, Paco and Eli won’t be talking anytime soon but the couple that got locked up in the cage might, they even got their own Ted talk so they would be more than happy to tell the world that Joe is a psychopath. Also, the people that knew him back in New York, LA and Madre Linda could come back. And Love’s parents now that they know the guy they paid to kill Joe didn’t do the job. Anyway, I think we need a fifth season to clear everything up
For sure, although honestly Joe might just use Kate’s money and power to off everyone. That would be pretty boring tho. I also don’t think anyone would believe Sherry and Cary’s story, or it’s possible they themselves believe Joe was just forced to go along with it. They aren’t the brightest.
Not after he framed Nadia and killed her boo. Can't wait to see how he's going to be in season 5. I only ever rooted for him to get the help he needs and I loved his human qualities I could relate to. Not everything else though. I think I was genuinely the most disturbed by this season with what he did to Marianne. It felt the most unhinged and seeing the montage of Marianne in the cage...yeesh.
Joes gonna be in trouble there’s so many people out there that knows the truth including the Quinn family assassin who told Joe to disappear and never come back.
I loved joe all 4 seasons until the last episodes when he started breaking down and going crazy and was doing things he didn’t really want to do but I still love the show but the end made me realize he really was the bad guy
Fun fact: when Joe was walking away from Elijah (second kill) . Elijah sniffs a bump, as soon as joe hears the sniff he stops and you can almost hear his monologe going " he's high on drugs on a rooftop. Nobody would secomd guess his high ass slipping off a roof". In a matter of seconds, which shows how quickly he can put together a story, Due to all the crime novels he's read.
I'd like to think in season 5 we'll find out some of the show prior to season 4 was also hallucinated. I also hope all the old survivors of joe band together to stop him. Jenna Ortegas character, Dr Nicky, Marienne, Nadia and probably a few I'm missing
I must admit I was infatuated with Joe but I in good conscience cannot carry on this love affair knowing damn well his psychosis has progressed irrevocably to now include Rhys. I didn't sign up for his other personalities just him. Farewell Joe😒😪
@@ShadowKiller71 if you bury someone in the woods, it’s probably because you thought you succeeded. And intent doesn’t matter. He didn’t mean to kill Rhys. Joe probably didn’t even mean to kill Candice’s lover by pushing him off the roof. And Love didn’t mean to kill their neighbor, but when he hung himself while in her care it was a result of her actions. Love’s intent wasn’t murder, but he is still listed in her kill count.
Given Joe tendency to rationalize his kills and position himself as a hero protecting those he loves ,I wonder if Joe's version of what happened with his dad hasn't been filtered through the same lense, why would his mother abandon him when she decides to start a new life with the brother?.
Before s4 Joe killed people that hurt others and the ones he cared for he killed benji and peach cuz they abused and used beck, he killed Ron cuz he hurt Paco, he killed Henderson to protect Ellie, he killed Ryan to protect Marianne and her daughter. It’s not justified but it makes more sense if you look at it from HIS point of view
Love didnt kill Gil, he committed suicide because he felt guilty after finding out his son was an abuser, then, after he committed, she did plan to leave him at his house and make it seem that he murdered Natalie because of an affair.
Yea but he killsd himself after he found abt his son which he wouldn’t have known I’d love hadn’t hit him and put him in a cage. So love did in fact kill Gil indirectly
I hope to God the last scene of this entire show is joe sitting in orange in a courtroom with a judge charging him for every single murder he's ever commited
Joe went from trying to be a good guy to full on villain mode at the end. I still feel like the show should've ended after season 2. Now YOU is gonna go on and on until it declines so much, people start to hate it
Nah it's probably gonna end up like Death note, he is doing everything with good intentions until now that he just doesn't care and can do whatever with no consequences. Penn Badgley is contracted for 6 seasons apparently. I was also thinking at first that this is going downhill fast but this season part 2 was insane. Writers are still heavy on point with the show.
Nahhh you forgot Kate's father's bodyguard....lol he got a life too....and if we even include all the failed attempts at killing....its overall 20...( marianne and Candice)
I think season 4 should have been the end. Joe should have died in the water and Nadia should have been successful. It would have given Joe character development and it would have finally brought people peace. I think the show is getting too long.
These were exactly my thoughts. For some reason I actually thought season 4 would be the last. And until the last minutes I believed it, because everything felt so different and end-worthy. But the actual ending of the season made me go like: "Wait a sec..." So I googled and realized the season was never meant to be the last. And seriously I was sad about it. It would have been a great ending. And after everything he did it would have been so satisfying to see especially a woman (in this case Nadja) being smarter than him. But guess we have to see what they have planned for season 5. I just really hope the show won't get too long with time.
I disagree, was so happy when he was alive. If the show doesnt bring you peace, maybe stop watching, it's just fictional stuff, actual a comedy most of the times with his narrations, shouldn't make anyone feel uncomfortable to that extent
@@linacake5376 Yeah I mean that season was always "a holiday in Europe", Joe said it himself at the start of the season. So that was foreshadowing he'd ultimately close the circle and get back to the US where maybe they wrap up the story with older characters like Paco, Ellie or Dr Nicky
Honestly unpopular opinion…this show should have many seasons, I MEAN MANYYY!!! It’s my absolute favorite show ever since it’s release. Of course if this was real life I’d want Joe dead but in this show, I rather them show him in Jail then end the show with his death.
Is this another "corrupted memory sequences" reference from assassin's creed 2? I'd be more than happy to tell you all about it: According to this, it's a rather tumultuous time for Florence. Following Lorenzo's death, the Medici are deposed, and a Dominican priest named Savonarola is given control of the city. Now he promptly turns it into the most miserable place on earth. According to this, it's when the Bonfire of the Vanities took place. Let's see what else we have here... Some entries on Machiavelli, some trouble in Forlí, a rather amusing anecdote about Caterina Sforza and, well, her reproductive organs.
Just realised that I missed out Hugo which happened just before he took out Kate's father, Tom Lockwood! 🤦♂Completely slipped my mind! Actual total for Joe is 18 💀
I was gonna say….but to be fair, he did kill a lot in Season 4. It WAS hard to keep track. 😅
O
i wonder why u missed him :D
Joe is psycho serial killer who think his killing is justified Penn badley just play Joe so beautifully😂.
Please.. Who was Hugo again? And without rewatching season 2. What happened to loves brother? Or did I miss that? 😅 I'm confused with so many murders Hahah
I feel like the reason Love is considered crazier than Joe is because she killed more innocent than guilty or morally evil people. Now that has changed.
Yep, Delila, Candace, the neighbor woman in Madre Linda.
Joe is no different, she killed those people because they were in the way of her love with Joe, same with Joe's killings.
But joe framed the people he killed as bad, they weren’t actually bad
@@katybee3891 some of them were bad (the abusive dad)
Its moreso because we see things from Joe's perspective and his thought patterns of justifying it while killing them
Can't believe this man not only is going back to his original name Joe Goldberg but he also has a bookstore again and he's back in New York if this show gets a season 5 it's going to be crazzzyyy.
It's definitely going to be a big season!
And now he’s RICH
@@NYSeaNile very true a billionaire lol that's about to be insanneeee
@@BrainPilot he killed tom lockwood bodyguard as well, so it should be 18
@6arelypatient he never even said what happened to it so I'm wondering honestly.
He didn't kill Dr. Nicky or Nadia, but they are both in prison for murders they didn't commit.
He basically took away their lives too. We should add them to his kill count
Including Phoebe’s stalker!
@@ashtincrawford1020 totally forgot about her
omg I didn't even realise he got 2 innocent people in prison aswell! the amount of lives joe has ruined (including victims families) and murdered is insane
@@nm0852 no it doesn’t count this list people he’s actually killed n not alive
Edward was the most innocent person who Joe killed I believe, it was really sad to see even though he was such a minor a character on the show.
Yeah, so true! I felt so bad for him!
Bengie was just a jerk. But joe killed him
I think it works well for the narrative to really establish that he's past rationalizing his killings as morally righteous. We really go "fuck, that was gratuitous!" and it's such a shift from his previous MO... But yeah, it was still really sad to watch him just lying there. Poor guy just wanted to help his girlfriend lol
Beck might’ve been the most innocent
@@hartjefferson5461 true, Beck too
I'm glad they did this in this season 4 part 2 It's not healthy the way we came to actually like him despite knowing the things he did this was because we only saw things through Joe's point of view and internal dialogue. Season 4 part 2 was a complete reality check. We see Joe for what he actually is, a highly dangerous and complete and utter psychotic serial killer.
Glad you said this
Thank youuu! Too many ppl are upset that in part two Joe becomes to us what he truly always was and that we see him without the charm that blinded us through all the prior seasons
I never liked Joe- I felt sympathy for his past.
But as soon as the woman in his life made a mistake or slipped up in his mind that was it for him, he was looking for someone who could never exist nobody is perfect-
When Love held a mirror up to him by showing him they really are the same he couldn’t handle that because in his mind he too was perfect he was perfect and everything he had done, was because he had to do to protect, to prove his love, to show what a hero he is to the women in his life.
I did really like Love tho I was gutted when she died
It's not unhealthy to like a fictional character, even if they are evil. I get the criticism around people romanticizing serial killers, but there's nothing inherently bad or unhealthy about liking a villain. Hell, people love Disney and comic book villains and a lot of them are just straight up sadists or genocidal lol
@@mariaah3073 liking a villain is different from not seeing a character as villainous and condoning every action, despite the fact that said actions are tremendous violations of law. That is unhealthy indeed.
You wanna know what’s interesting, in an interview for season 4 part 1, Penn Badgley was asked of Joe’s kill count and he said he couldn’t remember. The interviewer stated that many fans said it was 10, and Penn cheekily replied “If everyone said its 10 I’m gonna say its 13”. In part 1, there’s 3 killings that supposedly Rhys killed in part 1, yet turns out its Joe. Penn’s spoiler is always just very smart.
Didn’t notice that, well spotted!
there was 4 kills in part 1
Felt really bad for Nadia at the end...she was such a good person and look what happened. Poor girl couldn't even say a word due to the shock
Yeah I felt so bad for her!
Yea especially cause Joe seemed to like her as a person/student then at the end has zero emotions when giving her the knife he used to kill Edward
@@joey_diaz_clips exactly…I always rooted was Joe even though he’s a killer but here I felt genuinely sick
she was an annoying feminist character
I hate him now because of that. My heart broke for Nadia. She lost someone close to her, and completely innocent, and ended up getting framed for it all at once. She deserves Justice next season.
I like how Joe started off as a villain then slowly wanted to descent into a antihero and now he's a full on evil being. I kinda feel bad for him, he really wanted to change himself and in the process that broke his mind and lost the good side of him forever.
Joe's KC - 18
Love's Final KC - 5
Breaks down like this
Season 1 - Joe (5) [Average of 1 kill every 2 episodes]
Season 2 - Joe (3) & Love (3) [Average of 1 kill every 1.6 episodes]
Season 3 - Joe (2) & Love (2) [Average of 1 kill every 2.5 episodes]
Season 4 - Joe (8) [Average of 1 kill every 1.25 episodes]
Did u count loves babysitter killing
With firty
@@Moesie yes
The number don’t lie, Joe is getting better, he kills less when he’s with Kate!
*sarcasm*
8 in season 4? Wasn’t it 7?
Malcom, Simon, Vik, Gemma, Rhys, Tom, Edward
Am I missing one?
@@AA-kc5np The bodyguard that came in to check on tom lockwood
Joe was slacking in season 2 and 3. Im glad he picked up the pace in season 4.
Lol - yeah he went all in!
I wanted to comment that you forgot Tom Lockwood's bodyguard :)). I do believe that Joe decided above all to keep Nadia alive, else he would have killed her first and then go for the boyfriend too.
And unless I missed it - Candace’s ex boyfriend/music producer??
@@erikae6183 isn't the guy from 1:02?
if he had killed her, the police would've started finding the killer, joe wanted to frame nadia, that's why he kept her alive
I really hope joe doesn’t die. Death is such a cop out for someone like him, bro need to rot in jail or constantly tortured tbh
It would actually be entertaining if instead of ending the season with his death we actually see him in jail
@@jezabeltokio that’s what I’m thinking since he’s narrating. Like he got caught and he’s telling us the whole story or something
In jail wtf nigga that's my boy we up b's we ain't going down city boys up 10 MILLION!!!!😭😭😭😂😂😂😫😫😫
He doesn’t need to be tortured lmao. He needs to be locked up and he needs mental help. He doesn’t kill people for fun, he kills them because his obsession over random women forces him to behave irrationally and makes him delusional at times
nah he needs to walk into a crowd of people and blend in\disappear
that should be the final scene of season 5
i never realized that joe was pretty passive in season 2🤣
in 3 as well... then they made us believe he did nothing in 4A either, so that's 2.5 seasons of him doing seemingly better until his dark side snapped
I dont think Joe killed Beck because she didn’t want to be with him but rather because she was about to escape and he was seriously injured so killing her was the safest move
So is she alive or not
@@ge0rgialiv yeah she's dead lol
either way he still killed her, he DID choke her after all so that puts her in the that whole total
I think he killed her for both reasons.
@@ge0rgialivwhat makes you think she’s alive😭
OMG I just realized how ironic Chris D'Elia's casting was on the show. He was essentially playing himself, hiding in plain sight
Wow, you’re right, I had no idea about Henderson’s actor having accusations of sexual misconduct and predatory behavior, but it’s certainly tragically ironic.
fjodjfowkdöqnsöqndöwnsöq, glad it’s come out, at least
You forgot Hugo , right before he got rid of Tom
Right
oh yeah! Poor Hugo
Exactly
Joe deserves to be gone, it should have ended like that with him being dead’
who's Hugo again?
Season 4 part 2 made me really hate joe even though I knew he was always a psycho his fight with wanting to be good an reform himself made me not dislike him as much, but after the end of season 4 he fully embraced his dark side and is now actively an evil man out in the open partnered up with Kate whom I know is bat shit crazy.
He was phyco in season one its just he was able to hide it better. He basically lies to him self and audience. There is no one he won't kill, he has not limits. He proved that after killing Beck.
He only killed bad people? What about Candice and Beck from literally season 1? And don’t give me that „but they cheated so they deserved it“. They didn’t. And anyone has done bad things, but breaching the law and destroying life’s in/directly is mentally ill/evil.
@@Parvahti no one is saying they deserved it. I think they were referring to Joe always rationalize it and making the viewer feel as if he wasn’t totally bad. We tend to catalog him in a grey area because he has done more bad than good but a lot of times is in the name of something “good”. He tricks us into forgetting all the innocents with his three good deeds in all the series.
@@ParvahtiExactly like it drives me crazy that people can see Beck as deserving it… or even most others in S1
@@noplans1 no one said beck deserved it, people are saying that it MAKES SENSE for joe to kill her because she knows his truth and was about to expose him. So in self defence, he had to kill her.
"the legend of the show, which was love quinn." DAMN RIGHT !!!!!
The real Will Bettleheim survived and escaped. Though, I wouldn't be shocked if Joe imagined that like he had with Rhys too.
hmmm good theory. I kind of wondered if the hit man at the beginning of Season 4 was real too. It gave Joe an “excuse” to not let Marienne go.
the real Will Bettleheim hacked into Henderson's laptop, which I doubt Joe Goldberg could figure out even with split personalities
@@canarynoir2874joe wanted to let her go but his other split personality didn’t
@@canarynoir2874 that thing with the PI/hitman made no sense. He had no reason to just let Joe go about his merry way, it was an odd plot line to me.
@@oliviad3326 His reason was to take all the money Joe had from Love's account and disappear forever
I think the show is a metaphor about the way we justify our bad habits to ourselves. If it was really about murder, then we wouldn't relate to Joe (assuming we're all not murderers), but some people do only because they're trapped into seeing everything from his emotional and mental state. This is also why we don't really sympathize with killers in real life and other shows/movies where they're presented in the third person, because we're far removed from their internal world and only judge them from a distance. But Joe is relatable not because we're also killers, but because we go about life in a similar way, putting up a front in almost all areas of life while taming a wild train of thoughts and emotions going on inside of us. This is especially the case when we do something bad (cheating, stealing, lying, deceiving, lusting) because we rely on similar internal monologues to alter our perception of these actions, but only to ourselves. We wouldn't get the same level of assurance if we relied on others to understand the desires and temptations that make us do these things, so we redirect our energies inwards. The show is relatable because it makes us feel good about every time we justified to ourselves an action that we already knew was bad and inexcusable. The murder is just a dramatization of that I believe.
Hey! That's actually a very good point. I think we all feel this way by justifying our actions with feelings and thoughts. Maybe I think no one ever does something that may be considered socially bad just for a bad purpose, we all have our reasons and maybe fall into "no other possible option or solution" and that's why we do it. Not talking about murder tho, but as you say, smaller acts that can cause some harm to other ones or even to ourselves.
Maybe it's time to stop justifying our actions and embrace who we are in order to become better persons (the opposite as Joe, who simply became a monster united to his evil side 💀).
It is a very good point I like it!
Bravo! Very well written
@@abigailtorresvellojin5902 Thanks for your comment. I feel like intentionality is harder to establish though. Joe is definitely portrayed as being more innocent, a victim of circumstance and bad luck, but if he were more evil (like someone who actually enjoys killing), the result would be the same, no? A person with evil intentions also carries some kind of intellectual dialogue with themselves to stay sane and believe they're doing something reasonable or morally necessary (While I don't recommend this movie because of how graphic/violent it is, Lars von Trier's "The House That Jack Built" is an example of this). But I think the show is primarily focused on individuals with non-evil intentions and uses murder as a kind of exaggeration of their misdeeds, because dealing with the consequences of that makes for a more exciting show.
@@jkrowlingify Thank you :)
now that joe ended up with a multimillionaire, he’s practically untouchable. which is terrifying to think about.
So true!
Man I really looking forward to Season 5 hope it gets renewed
Same here!
According to an interview with Penn Badgley, he was contracted for 6 seasons
It’s one of the most popular shows on Netflix, and the season 4 finale set it up perfectly for another season. As long as they can make money and the storyline makes sense, they’ll keep it going.
Same,😩I’m worried now more than usual because Netflix is quick to cancel. Even shows that seem to be doing well.
@@Polkadot2 6?!
Still baffled that Chris Delia accepted that role.
Because of all the things Joe has done, it’s hard to root for him, but his charming and seductive personality makes it so hard to hate him 😂 Maybe he will neet his fate in season 5.
Penn Badgley is signed for 6 seasons 😭
HE STARVED A MOTHER TO DEATH
Ted Bundy was also deceptively charming. Rewatching the earlier seasons I'm amazed how the writers tricked us into liking, even rooting for Joe. His internal monologs are so tremendously delusional.
bruh idk man, i straight up HATe joe. i dont find it hard to hate him the way a lot of ppl do. but we all dif
Lmao this is fictional character. We like Joe coz he is psychopath.
The thing that interests me is that, Joe is not a very careful killer, he’s impulsive and emotional . Not all of them are very planned out and have multiple holes. You would think that only pure genius would get away with as many murders as he did, but that’s not the case. He makes it look quite easy and simple. Which makes me wonder how many serial killer are out there that aren’t caught yet.
I can't wait to see Joe gets what he deserves.
It feels like it's definitely coming!
You mean real love?
Which is NOT dying. Hope he rots in jail starting from first episode of next season
@@backwarrdss why
@@ryan__0157 I dont think that question should be asked:DDd
It’s 18 people, you didn’t include kates fathers bodyguard
Joe not getting caught yet is not at all a surprise. Dexter got away with a lot more killings. Especially, during the reboot. The only way to stop him was for him to die.
I thought this season was so interesting! Penn does such a great job as Joe and I am ready for more. Thanks for the kill count!
Glad you enjoyed!
this is incredible, i have enjoyed all of this series tbh so its very refreshing to watch this
Yeah i've enjoyed all of the series too - it's a great show!
Once he did what he did to Nadia that was the last straw for me 💯
Yeah I felt so bad for her!
lol , she got what was coming to her .. she literally was hunting him
Same
@@kidkhy1864 to a degree yes but everybody he’s killed is an idiot cuz he’s an idiot 😂😂😂 (btw I got a theory he has cte lowkey and that’s why the hallucinations are more frequent to the point he created a physical version of his sub conscious aka Rhys) remember when Ron gave him a concussion he never was treated for it cuz he never went to the 🏥🤔
I don’t actually understand why he came up with the story of him being a victim of Love when clearly there are many witnesses of his craziness that are still alive. Maybe people like Nadia, Paco and Eli won’t be talking anytime soon but the couple that got locked up in the cage might, they even got their own Ted talk so they would be more than happy to tell the world that Joe is a psychopath. Also, the people that knew him back in New York, LA and Madre Linda could come back. And Love’s parents now that they know the guy they paid to kill Joe didn’t do the job. Anyway, I think we need a fifth season to clear everything up
For sure, although honestly Joe might just use Kate’s money and power to off everyone. That would be pretty boring tho. I also don’t think anyone would believe Sherry and Cary’s story, or it’s possible they themselves believe Joe was just forced to go along with it. They aren’t the brightest.
You missed Tom Lockwoods bodyguard brother
what about kate's father's bodyguard?
Realized this too
He missed mad killings bc didn’t he also kill Becks toxic best friend
@@sweetsgirl11213 he mentioned peach already
I felt so bad for Eddie, I was so sad to see his death. I hope both Kate and Marienne survive Season 5.
as a Nadia the ending was heartbreaking
Are you still rooting for Joe Goldberg after these four seasons of the show? Comment your thoughts below!
You forgot about Hugo in s4 Joe killed him
Not after he framed Nadia and killed her boo. Can't wait to see how he's going to be in season 5. I only ever rooted for him to get the help he needs and I loved his human qualities I could relate to. Not everything else though.
I think I was genuinely the most disturbed by this season with what he did to Marianne. It felt the most unhinged and seeing the montage of Marianne in the cage...yeesh.
@@VicMeep no she ain’t prison ?
@@VicMeep when he threw marianne my heart sank like I have hated a lot of things Joe has done but that was awful
Yes
Joes gonna be in trouble there’s so many people out there that knows the truth including the Quinn family assassin who told Joe to disappear and never come back.
I loved joe all 4 seasons until the last episodes when he started breaking down and going crazy and was doing things he didn’t really want to do but I still love the show but the end made me realize he really was the bad guy
Yeah that part was so powerful!
Impressive, very nice. Let's see Dexter Morgan's kill count video.
Fun fact: when Joe was walking away from Elijah (second kill) . Elijah sniffs a bump, as soon as joe hears the sniff he stops and you can almost hear his monologe going " he's high on drugs on a rooftop. Nobody would secomd guess his high ass slipping off a roof". In a matter of seconds, which shows how quickly he can put together a story, Due to all the crime novels he's read.
Joe is like the future of Dan Humphrey
Missed the bodyguard with the champagne in the hangar
Dexter Morgan needs to visit Joe and teach him some manners...
I'd like to think in season 5 we'll find out some of the show prior to season 4 was also hallucinated. I also hope all the old survivors of joe band together to stop him. Jenna Ortegas character, Dr Nicky, Marienne, Nadia and probably a few I'm missing
Theo, Cary and Sherry and i would say Paço but Paco really likes Joe
@@diogomarques9228 ye, Joe lead Paco to believe he killed for good intentions so Paco wouldn't have any hate for Joe
Joe killed 18. You forgot the bodyguard of Kate's dad from season 4
I must admit I was infatuated with Joe but I in good conscience cannot carry on this love affair knowing damn well his psychosis has progressed irrevocably to now include Rhys. I didn't sign up for his other personalities just him. Farewell Joe😒😪
Lmao the fact i have a list in my notes and it’s accurate made my day i have Love too
if only paco didn’t tell beck about the ceiling, we wouldn’t have had three more seasons of joe killing because of his love haha
he also stabbed the guy in the neck before he killed kate’s dad
Joe had always been a full blown psychopath from jump hope next season he get what deserves for his crimes.
I feel like Candice should also be on Joe’s list of kills, because he very nearly killed her and thought he had succeeded for years.
I wouldn’t say thought he succeeded, cuzz he “accidentally” knocked her out, he didn’t intend on killing her in the first place
@@ShadowKiller71 if you bury someone in the woods, it’s probably because you thought you succeeded.
And intent doesn’t matter. He didn’t mean to kill Rhys. Joe probably didn’t even mean to kill Candice’s lover by pushing him off the roof.
And Love didn’t mean to kill their neighbor, but when he hung himself while in her care it was a result of her actions. Love’s intent wasn’t murder, but he is still listed in her kill count.
Although Love is such an insane psycho, I still can't get over her death, she is so necessary in the series
Yeah it’s a shame as she was such a good character! So iconic in the show!
You didn’t mention Tom Lockwood’s bodyguard
He actually killed 18 people you missed toms body guard
And Forty (still counts because he died because he found out Joe is a murderer). Also Joe's father when he was a child
You missed Hugo (Tom Lockwood’s body guard) with the exacto knife in the plane hanger
He also killed the bodyguard for Tom Lockwood! Great vid!!
Thanks!
You forgot toms bodyguard
Given Joe tendency to rationalize his kills and position himself as a hero protecting those he loves ,I wonder if Joe's version of what happened with his dad hasn't been filtered through the same lense, why would his mother abandon him when she decides to start a new life with the brother?.
i think she didnt wanna live w the burden of joe
Before s4 Joe killed people that hurt others and the ones he cared for he killed benji and peach cuz they abused and used beck, he killed Ron cuz he hurt Paco, he killed Henderson to protect Ellie, he killed Ryan to protect Marianne and her daughter. It’s not justified but it makes more sense if you look at it from HIS point of view
Man Penn badgely looks a perfect cat for a Ted bundy live show or movie.
That's very true!
I think it’s funny how Chris D’elia ended up being just like his character Hendy
Love didnt kill Gil, he committed suicide because he felt guilty after finding out his son was an abuser, then, after he committed, she did plan to leave him at his house and make it seem that he murdered Natalie because of an affair.
Yea but he killsd himself after he found abt his son which he wouldn’t have known I’d love hadn’t hit him and put him in a cage. So love did in fact kill Gil indirectly
18 actually because he also killed Kate’s dad’s body guard
there is also elijah the guy that candace cheated with on joe he pushed him off the roof
You missed the lockwood body guard
You guys missed Lockwood's security guard
I hope to God the last scene of this entire show is joe sitting in orange in a courtroom with a judge charging him for every single murder he's ever commited
That would be poetic justice!
I’m still not convinced Love is dead
same i need a signier sign
Same
Your iq must be in the negatives
Question!! How would we like to see joe go???
my mans catching bodies like he running an LMG on shipment.
Joe went from trying to be a good guy to full on villain mode at the end. I still feel like the show should've ended after season 2. Now YOU is gonna go on and on until it declines so much, people start to hate it
Nah it's probably gonna end up like Death note, he is doing everything with good intentions until now that he just doesn't care and can do whatever with no consequences. Penn Badgley is contracted for 6 seasons apparently. I was also thinking at first that this is going downhill fast but this season part 2 was insane. Writers are still heavy on point with the show.
Highly disagree. This show is one of the best on Netflix and my favorite since it’s release. The writers have done a fantastic job with this show
Nahhh you forgot Kate's father's bodyguard....lol he got a life too....and if we even include all the failed attempts at killing....its overall 20...( marianne and Candice)
Love this recount..I had forgotten ALOT 😅. YOU Is so mad.
It definitely is isn't it lol
@BrainPilot omg we love Joe Goldberg but WE SHOULDN'T 👀🤔🤯🤣
He also killed hugo the bodyguard of tom lockwood
Yeah that’s true!
Joe in seasons 2 and 3 wasn’t that bad. In season 4 thooo
Season 4 he certainly made up for it!
3:41 ✅ correction he took it before he got poisoned 🤢 but the poison still took effect. Then after he still faked being poisoned and then he got love
I miss love
Same here!
We all do.
You forgot to mention Tom Lockwoods Bodyguard.
I thought it was the Mom's boyfriend. I didn't think it was Joe's actual father???
Kill count❌
Body count ✅
I believe you missed one kill in season 4, Tom Lockwood’s bodyguard.
I hope ppl stopped simping after him after this last season. The memes were funny but that’s it. I was always creeped out by him from day one
I think season 4 should have been the end. Joe should have died in the water and Nadia should have been successful. It would have given Joe character development and it would have finally brought people peace. I think the show is getting too long.
These were exactly my thoughts. For some reason I actually thought season 4 would be the last. And until the last minutes I believed it, because everything felt so different and end-worthy.
But the actual ending of the season made me go like: "Wait a sec..."
So I googled and realized the season was never meant to be the last.
And seriously I was sad about it.
It would have been a great ending.
And after everything he did it would have been so satisfying to see especially a woman (in this case Nadja) being smarter than him.
But guess we have to see what they have planned for season 5.
I just really hope the show won't get too long with time.
I disagree, was so happy when he was alive. If the show doesnt bring you peace, maybe stop watching, it's just fictional stuff, actual a comedy most of the times with his narrations, shouldn't make anyone feel uncomfortable to that extent
@@linacake5376 Yeah I mean that season was always "a holiday in Europe", Joe said it himself at the start of the season. So that was foreshadowing he'd ultimately close the circle and get back to the US where maybe they wrap up the story with older characters like Paco, Ellie or Dr Nicky
Honestly unpopular opinion…this show should have many seasons, I MEAN MANYYY!!! It’s my absolute favorite show ever since it’s release. Of course if this was real life I’d want Joe dead but in this show, I rather them show him in Jail then end the show with his death.
Don't forget Lockwood's body guard
You missed Tom’s bodyguard your list is wrong
In season 5 of you Joe Goldberg will do whatever it takes to protect Kate.
He also killed Tom's body guard! That counts.
Tired rooting for evil specimens. S4 had no redeeming qualities 😂
Joe's demise feels like it's definitely on the way!
you forgot a person. Joe killed Kate's dad's bodyguard
He killed the bodyguard too before killing kathe's father
He also killed lockwoods body guard
He also killed Tom Lockwood's bodyguard and framed him for killing Lockwood.
You missed Tom Lockwoods' bodyguard
You missed one. He killed the dads body guard in season 4.
Joe's father
He killed 18 people. You forgot Tom Lockwoods bodyguard.
Arrived pretty fast
Is this another "corrupted memory sequences" reference from assassin's creed 2? I'd be more than happy to tell you all about it: According to this, it's a rather tumultuous time for Florence. Following Lorenzo's death, the Medici are deposed, and a Dominican priest named Savonarola is given control of the city. Now he promptly turns it into the most miserable place on earth. According to this, it's when the Bonfire of the Vanities took place. Let's see what else we have here... Some entries on Machiavelli, some trouble in Forlí, a rather amusing anecdote about Caterina Sforza and, well, her reproductive organs.
You forgot that guy that found Tom all tied up in the warehouse with Joe.