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Joe had more chemistry with Rhys in part two then he did with any girl in any season... But he was also in his head so I guess Joe had the best chemistry with himself.
Actually in Part 1 when Rhys hadn't yet been revealed to be the killer, I'd kinda started to suspect that maybe RHYS was Joe's new love interest! I mean, Joe seemed to be so taken with him, he liked the way Rhys spoke, the things he said and he was always so attentive. Of course it was all his obsession as we learn later on but as of then, I felt like they were building it up to make Rhys Joe's new unlucky love obsession.
I thought Rhys had a twin or something the way he acted like he didn’t know Joe, man every detail after that had my eyes glued to the screen. Well done
I love when Beck makes an appearance, something about her being the first make her words more visceral, when she said “what did you do this time?” I got chills
I have a theory. In season one, Dr Nicky said that there’s two Joe Goldbergs . Meaning, that Joe’s mental state was slowly deteriorating from the very beginning of the show.
I hadn't thought about it that way!!! He meant it literally this entire time then! Because when forty spoke to him, then it clicked to him that his dark side was much more insidious that dr nicky thought it was
It wasnt literally two...It was about difference in his appearence to different ppl and how he lied aboit his real self. Knowing these type of series I dont think they thought about split personality before s4 plus its kinda stated that Joe only got split persona in this season
Yeah, I wasn’t a fan of the split personality thing at first since it’s kind of a tired and campy trope, but the more I thought about it the more I started to like in the context of the last three seasons. Since the very beginning Joe has not only been in serious denial of who he really is, but he’s been increasingly struggling to maintain that denial as the series has gone on. So it culminating in him developing an entire split personality does feel like a natural continuation of what he’s been doing for the whole series.
There's a scene where Rhys asks Joe "why are we still seperate"? Meaning, why is Joe still in denial of the evil part of himself (treating it as a separate entity). So I think at the end, when Joe looks at his reflection and sees Rhys's face, it symbolizes that they have finally become one and has embraced the dark side of himself as Himself.
You can also see that he now duly shows all the traits of a psychopath. Like being superficial! He does have that trait in all of the previous seasons but in the last one when him and Kate are giving the interview, he goes on full pretentious mode. Also this season had him care about Nadia not as much as Ellie but a little but still he doesn’t hesitate to frame her Changed it y’all
@@tatael15 He doesn't kill Nadia, he kills her boyfriend and frames her for his murder. He's been irredeemable for a while but that was so shitty, I was rooting for her to get Joe locked up.
@@dikhed1983 I think she should have stopped when she helped madelline cause she knew how he is. She became nosy and he got her but I was also rooting for her. But he is fake and a psychopath what else can we expect from him.
@@hihello9518 but he did know she knew about Marienne. Or at least “Rhys” did so subconsciously, so did Joe. He would’ve framed or killed her anyways i think
Joe is officially at his worst. He has fully accepted his killer side, and he now has the means to get away with anything. He is so wealthy and protected that he can kill for fun and pay people to cover it up. He went from being the eat the rich killer to being the rich. He has become the type of person who he always resented, and he loves it. At this point he has nowhere else to go but down, and I truly believe that justice will be served next season. Hopefully by marienne and ellie, and they can clear Nadia's name while they are at it.
it's a lot better than watching him make excuses for every bad thing he does. I think it would be interesting to see what he will do with all that power he's obtained via Kate and possibly how their relationship would play out now that Joe is fully accepting his evilself. or the series could just end there and it would make sense.
I know right?! They definitely chose to have him shave it to show the Joe we know from the first season. The whole show we see Joe changing. He is still a murderer the whole time but we gradually see him trying to deny the dark side of himself starting in season 3 and then of course all of season 4. Him shaving and looking the same as he did in season 1 I think symbolizes him reverting back to those roots. He even says that he went back "home" to his old life like Kate's father was talking about (i.e he went back to his old self)
Idk I found her kinda annoying. She acts very childish and when Kate tried to warn her about Adam, she became a bitch. I'm glad she moved on with her life though
Half of her friends are dead and the other half are sociopaths. Girlie deserved better than those shenanigans and I'm glad she chose to walk away in the end
To me, the entire message of this show is a socio-political commentary about us as an audience are so easily tricked by the kindness of some people, even though they truly are monsters. It shows how utterly superficial the world is, that so many people will look past at a guy like Joe, a seemingly normal and non threatening man, who turns out to be an absolute monster. Despite him being an actually terrible person, Joe is right a lot about the world. He's very in touch with how people act and how they lie to themselves, but is ironically unaware that he does it himself. Him embracing who he really is works as an actual finale, and also works as a set up for season 5. You is defintely one of my favorite shows.
I hate Joe with all my heart. How he tries to trick us into sympathizing ugh... But it is indeed a great show and I’m low key learning a lot about life and different personalities.
So true I absolutely hated Joe in the first three seasons but started liking him a little bit in the part 1 of fourth season but when part 1 ended then I realised how I got tricked by his another personality and now I hate him even more than I did before. But he is also right in many ways about how this world works.
Season 4 was absolutely brilliant, especially the second part. It finally delivers what they were struggling to do in the first 3 seasons. All this time they made us feel bad about Joe and there was some excuse for all the kills but now they've finally shown us who Joe really is. Framing innocent Nadia, in the end, was the last straw. Joe is a bad guy. And he accepts that as well. He wants to kill because he likes it. He's a full-blown psychopath. Would love to see what they would do with him in season 5 but even if we don't get another season, I think they wrapped it perfectly.
It was trash Especially like I get Joe is evil the seasons before made you believe like you want him to get away with murder but the fact that he’s already plotted murder on his ex doctor it’s not right but OK I’ll let that slide but he did his student Nadia and framed her for murder and killed her boyfriend was unnecessary I hope season five Marianne can get her justice and also people forget Ellie from season three and Victor the little boy and we’ll from season three I hope all of them come back maybe where the whole season five is where Joe is dreaming of going to jail and he’s hallucinating that he’s actually in jail I mean he was all about saving people but he killed Ellie sister Delilah technically it wasn’t him but you get the point and he killed Marianne and I get the season four of us trying to introduce that he doesn’t really care about anything He just has a fix station in Obsession and stuff people he think he can fix but he can’t even fix himself I hope he gets caught sorry not sorry
@@philleotardo5829 exactly People forgetting Eli will identity he took Nadia like he did his dude is so dirty and he killed her boyfriend that was so unnecessary he needs to get his karma at this point he literally cared about the boy Victor but he ruined his life but not as bad as Eli even though he didn’t kill Delilah he probably would’ve killed her if love haven’t killed her and then he tried killing Marianne and didn’t care because he didn’t wanna get caught he needs his karma most definitely
@@zolaeight7574 I agree, partly. It wasn't really a build up. They went back and forth with his moral dilemma when he killed someone in all the seasons, including this one, but in the end we rooted for Joe. We did the same in this season until he framed Nadia, which was right before the ending. Now, he has embraced his negative side and he's gonna kill with conscience on his side from now on. But, I do agree that they took their time to show us this (even if it was just in one scene towards the end) rather than rushing this before.
The main thing I learnt from Nadia's character in S4 is that you can't make every situation in life fair. It's important to be mindful of your limits- you're not a superhero that can save every situation and make everything fair, you're a human.
Can we all agree Kate is an even crazier person. If she truly knows everything about him and she still accepts him, she deserves whatever he does to her. Just saying.
@@frankd9945 No she doesn't know that Joe killed her father. She told him in the hospital that her father died and said that his murder was job-related (indicating that his bodyguard killed him which Joe staged).
Best part about that reveal with how it turns out that the real Rhys was an innocent man while the guy that Joe was talking to was really a part of his psyche, just throws out the window a story where Joe is actually pretty much the hero who is out to take down this psychopath. Because that’s not how this show and his character work. Joe is not an anti-hero, he’s a villain
I feel like I had a slight hunch that Rhys was a figment of his imagination (given how detached he was and how he never interacted with anyone) until the scene he knocks Joe and Roald out, chaining up both of them. I don’t understand how Joe managed to do that to himself, Roald, or discover the underground basement part of the place. It’s honestly the biggest thing that makes it fall a bit short for me
I think that it’s genius how they ended it. From season 1-3 Joe has been trying to convince himself and by extension us the audience that he’s not a bad person but now, finally, in the end he recognizes that he’s a monster and he has decided to embrace his true self fully rather than running from it. Now that the audience can see clearly that he’s a monster we’ll be rooting from his downfall. Now he’s embracing his true self and he has been given more power and money to avoid the consequences of his own actions. Now he’s just like the horrible powerful people that he originally despised. In the interview he did with his gf at the end of the final episode, when the interviewer asked him about them being a power couple and them helping the world he conveniently said that SHE is going to do good, he didn’t say WE. Which seems to me that despite telling her he was going to change he doesn’t plan to.
after he set nadia up like that, it's clear that he does intend to change his ways but for the worst this time, not in the way she and the audience thought he meant. He realized he can't be a good person, no matter how hard he tries, so now the only choice he feels he has left to prevent himself from having another breakdown is to embrace the monster he truly is.
I didn't like the ending. Joe got away from all the consequences. I liked the way he confronts his dark side on the bridge in final EP and there he accepts he has done so many bad things. He dying was only way to stop all this chaos and in a way save Kate's life. That would have been perfect ending.
The ending was brilliant, finally making a statement that Joe is an irredeemable monster who deserves no symphaty. And overall gotta say, this season was my second favorite, just behind season 1.
i am glad that she could atleast save marienne though... The shot at last of marienne with her daughter made me Happy.. ❤️❤️.. And i guess marienne would come back in the next part too.. The one link who is alive.
She is a horrible snooper WHY KIND OF idiot sees a STARVED PERSON LOCKED IN A CAGE AND DOESNT CALL YHE POLICE mariennes reason to not call makes sense but Nadia shouldn’t have listened to her
Joe has always wanted someone to love him for who he is and accept his ‚tendencies‘ without being disgusted by him like beck or crazy like love . Kate accepts joe as he is , and that’s what’s also helped him accept his dark side he doesn’t have to pretend anymore and that’s what he has always wanted . Mann I’m pumped for season 5 … best season so far Part 2 went soooo hard It’s insane
Yeah but he also had that with Love expected he was a hypocrite and found her disgusting for killing to protect the people she loved. I think he only likes the chase, not the girl. He doesn’t care about love, he cares about the challenge and once he achieves the challenge (gets the girl), he gets tired of them and finds someone else to start his new hunt.
He’s gonna find something wrong with her in due time . Joe doesn’t truly want love, he’s just like Tom- he likes to establish control over these girls in the form of protection
I find it interesting that Rhys is literally the first man that Joe has ever become obsessed with. Joe even made a box for him with his sweaty gym rag in it, he only does that for girls. I thought men were safe from his obsession.
Well it was more or less established Joe suffers from a condition. So he grew to be obsessed with Rys just as Dawn was obsessed with Pheobe. So this instance is a bit different than his past romantic encounters, being that it’s platonic.
@Gabriel so if Joel has to win, there’s no need to make another season, and they already suggested another one. Only Marienne and/or Nadia it’s needed. Nadia hasn’t spoken anything and Marienne could help her if she ends up knowing what happened to her. Also, Nadia was writing a novel. I could be so satisfying to see her get her revenge and publishing it in the final scene. That’s more realistic that having Joel with his ridiculous plot armor. Even in How To Get Away With Murder wasn’t that easy…
What’s ironic about the Jekyll and Hyde reference is that the story isn’t about split personalities. It’s about the “good” guy, Dr. Jekyll, creating a chemical mask for himself to slip into to perform heinous acts without bearing the consequences of them. All the blame would go to “Mr. Hyde”, even though no personality exists: it’s all Dr. Jekyll. Only when he commits a crime he cannot escape from does he start to lose control over which form he’s in, with the Mr. Hyde identity, guilt, and consequences finally catching up with Dr. Jekyll so he would have to pay the price for his actions
This season was so full of twists. I almost thought the show will probably end when he jumped off the bridge. But of course..not. this season was brilliant. The scene with Nadia gave me shivers
His nurturing caring side for the younger gen(paco, jenna ortega etc) completely disappears as his Hyde metamorphoses into a bigger stronger dark being and that's what's scary - he accepts inner evil instead of rejecting it
@@mariaguates wow I did not think of that but that makes A LOT of sense. The first thing I thought about after Joe killed her dad was.. wait..he already told her about some of his past, she knows he’s dangerous and does unspeakable things under the pretext of love.. so why would she tell him all her dad business the way she did? Knowing he’s unstable? Idk
Lol for what joy? It's better the way this is. This IS closure. Him being the most powerful he's ever been. That's the consequence. This isn't NCIS or Grey's Anatomy where everything balances. It's You. It's what it is.
@@daviddegea3373 That’s how YOU want it to end, what good is it if he just keeps killing and killing and getting away with it? It’ll keep getting predictable. It has to be some resistance. Nobody wants to see something end the same everytime, him taking care of everything and living happily after
@@daviddegea3373 oh it will, even in this world, even in real life, you dont get away with anything, life creeps up at some point, take it 10 20 years but it does. So joe will definitely get karma. He's especially weak now since he's totally dependant on his girlfriend. What happens if she breaks up? We never know
@@daviddegea3373kate literally took over a business that has been killing people and getting away with it for decades. It wont stop with her or him tjays the point
People who know about Joe and might bring justice : Season 1:Paco, Karen ,Detective from Peach's family, Season 2: Ellie , Cop David Fincher and Dr. Nicky. Season 3: Theo, The Hakuna matata couple who survived the cage , Marienne Season 4: Nadia and Marienne. Eagerly waiting for season 5. The show needs to end on a right note ethically. Penn did an emmy worth acting ,but Joe needs to get the long due karma.
I’m still a a little confused on the timeline of when Joe was in the hospital, Nadia and Edward waking up in the library- then they are in his apartment gathering the evidence, Joe is already out of the hospital, able to plant evidence in Nadia’s apartment, go back to his in time to kill Edward? I know it was technically just a near-drowning (well he did die for a sec) and maybe he was able to get discharged quickly but then he would have had to find out that Nadia was poking about, somehow separate himself from Kate, change his clothes etc… it seemed a bit rushed at the end and I kinda took me away from what was really happening and the meaning behind it.
Rhys was on to Nadia already when Joe asks her to stay behind in class and then she misses the next class and since Rhys is joe it actually makes sense.
We don't know exactly what time things are taking place in the scenes. I just figured nadia was digging in his apartment days after he got out of the hospital.
It also doesn't make sense that he easily framed Eddie for Rhys's death when he probably has an alibi since he was in London and nowhere near the countryside where Rhys was killed
For me, it was disappointing that Joe survived. The second part of S4 was great, but I was hoping for an ending. When he woke up in the hospital, all the hype I had during the last 4,5 episodes disappered in a moment. I think some thins has to be ended, and this was the perfect time for it.
It would've been good. But I think seeing him go down would be better. I believe they have a S5 in talks so hopefully he will pay and it'll be wrapped up with a nice bow
i think the idea of Joe not getting a redemption but instead pushing it further is a reasonable thing to do to his character, but i wish it was better executed as well as it should have been the last season, they could've easily finish it within a couple more episodes or if the final episode took a different direction
Saaame! I was so irritated seeing him the hospital bed chilling. Like eww, be gone! They better kill him or take his ass to jail in Season 5 because I’m tired of Joe.
@@EntrEsprit It was clear this would never be the ending, as the season started with Joe talking about being on holidays in Europe. It was always clear he would return full circle to the US, and even better, NYC.
The thing that didn't sit well with me was A)How did no Cameras get him ever? B)Why didn't Nadia go to the police just as she found Marianne in the cage because at that time Joe didn't even know where Marianne was and and why would Marianne act so dumb and tell her not to call the police. Nadia could have told so many people about the cage and rescued Marianne and got Joe caught. At that point the only thing that saved Joe was plot armor C)Why did Nadia decide to collect evidence and tell someone when it was already too late D)Why did Kate fall for Joe at all? She didn't even seem to like him that much E)Dawn. She was also shown as taking pictures of Joe and looking at him suspiciously like a journalist. There was never a scene where they showed her to be specifically obsessed with Phoebe. F)It didn't feel like the YOU i fell in love with, it's spiraled out way too much and only plot armour seems to be keeping Joe safe and not his actual brains.
Joe can go to any length to get away with everything and anything he does. So there’s no point in calling the police. Nadia and Marienne would have been killed together instead if she called the police.
For B, first of all, neither Marianne nor Nadia knew that Joe didn’t know where she was. So her going to the police for info she didn’t even know wouldn’t have made sense. And the reason why Marianne didn’t want to go to the police is because she was convinced that he’ll just escape and fine her again. That the police will have this evidence against him but wouldn’t matter cuz he’ll run away. And after he runs away he’ll just find her again and kidnap her or kill her. That why Marianne didn’t wanna go to the police
Marianne didn't want the police involved because she illegally moved her daughter from the US to Europe after she was the prime suspect in her ex-husband's murder, which Joe committed to help her after the husband was about to gain full custody.
I agree with you 100 %, especially with point B). ANY reasonable person would go to the police. ANY. Why would you risk your own life? I'm pretty sure the police would come up with the way to rescue Marianne and convince Joe. The one think I hate about this show is the fact that he gets away with everything. It's so unrealistic.... -_-
B) if she went to the cops with no evidence it was joe, he would be on police radar but not under custody. So joe would do what he does best and run away/create new identity. C. The evidence on the murder of the Rhys would actually put joe behind bars immediately and was the only chance of stopping joe. D. Kate was mad at joe a few times in season, pushing him away at times but Kate fell in love because joe kept telling her that he didn’t judge her from her past and that she’s a good person. Add a couple sex scenes and yeah, they’re in love E. There were several mentions of Phoebe having a stalker in news papers and phoebes own feelings that she was being watched. It was only hinted that was the case, until Dawn pretended to be a servant and kidnapped her for the sole purpose of protecting her… which is pretty obsessive. F. The show did changed a bit. Starting off as a romance/killer thriller on the surface. But there was always hints and elements to the story about joe’s psyche. hence why we saw his childhood, abuse from Mooney/ his mother. The fact that he killed his mothers bf to protect her. The fact that dr.Nicky told Joe that were 2 Joe Goldbergs. 1 that wants to love and another who is broken and do bad things. Season 1-3 made it seem like he only killed out of necessity to live and that he’s a decent person but that’s not the true joe… There just diving deeper into the characters mind and little bit less of the romantic killing, since that alone would get sorta stale/predictable over 4-5 seasons
There is no plausible explanation anyone could ever tell me that would convince me that this ending could've actually happened. I just have so many issues with the unbreakable plot armor joe has been accumulating progressively as each season goes on. Surely one detective out there would at least be able to put together that joe was closely involved in the crimes, deaths and disappearances of candace, beck, love, malcom, simon, gemma, delilah, forty, peach, rhys, nadia and paco; has the show also forgotten that sherry and cary are still alive and were attacked by him (and love)? A sloppy "i made my helpless husband do it" in a suicide note doesn't change the fact he was complicit in kidnapping them. Theo also saw on the cameras that he put natalie's body in the car. A ferret could put that all together and make a solid case against him oh but since he's left those places and has big fancy lawyers who can clean any name offscreen he's fine.
Police dont just go around trying to find these things. They are spread out in time and in different locations and under different names nd have no correlation with each other. Its very realistic to see that theyd jus close a case to not wanna deal with it. It happens in the real world everyday😭 one piece of evidence is found and even if theirs holes, they go with it. Their are a ton of real world cases where someone is innocent but because of circumstance nd how they didng further the investigation becuz of the 1 evidence found, they serve a ton of years
with Joe having a high profile relationship and getting his birth name back, I'm hoping that his mother comes to try and reconnect with him in season 5.
I think the fun thing about the show that kept us coming back is that no matter what awful things Joe did, you were still rooting for him. After the Nadia incident, I finally decided I was no longer rooting for him and I think that killed my interest. I no longer feel he was justified, or that he truly felt remorse in some capacity. Although it was obvious that was never true but we were some how manipulated to feel that way, but that's no longer the case
I loved this season. I love that Joe is actually embracing the fact that he is a bad guy. He is a killer. He's no longer ashamed and because of that, the audience will no longer see him as the good guy or be sympathetic towards him. I can't wait for season 5
This is by far my favorite season. The bait and switch twist was awesome. Part 1 really got all of us because I seriously thought Rhys being the killer was a cheap cop out for Joe to become the hero. And I didn't even notice that Rhys only interacted with Joe. The Twist was hiding in plain sight. I'm very excited to see what direction they go in season 5
12:14 I think Joe is aware that during his suicide attempt and flirt with death, he actually integrated "Rhys" again (=the obsessive, controlling and killing part of him that he had been repressing for a while) given his final speech, and the fact that he doesn't see "Rhys" as a separate being anymore, but as a reflection of him. That's why he didn't hesitate to coldly kill Edward and frame Nadia for it, just to not ruin his chance with Kate who knows what kind of man he is, and the life that goes with it (he could have run away like he did before when refusing to kill) that's why he said "this time I'm using all of me" while doing it. He doesn't try to change anymore, he has accepted this side of him without shame
@@xxedfusionxx1979 I understood he framed Edward as the eat the rich killer and made police believe that Nadia killed him because of this discovery, in order to stop him, but I didn't hear it was supposed to be in self defense.
I find it quite poetic how Joe aggressively threw rhys into the lake, then jump right after, thinking he's getting rid of both of them only to wake up as... Rhys. It's like they fusionned when they were in the water somehow
@@maevab2923 I think his "death" for several seconds (maybe NDE?) is supposed to have resolved his dissociation, even if it's not how it works in reality ^^
@@reginaphalange9417 i was like almost 70% sure i heard him say that she can claim he was going for her next nd defended herself or something like that but i mightve just imagined that
Rhys wanted Joe to realise who he is and join forces as murderous masterminds. But when Joe tried to kill him (by committing suicide)it made Rhys realise that they could never join forces because Joe insists on being ‘good’ so he took over Joe’s body permanently. Which is why he killed Edward(unnecessarily) and framed Nadia (without remorse) right after leaving the hospital . It would also explain why he saw Rhys when he looked at his reflection.
i think it's crazy that Rhys was never really there yet Rhys was telling joe to kill kate's dad & kate's dad wanted Rhys dead that's what had me believing Rhys was real
The show did a nice job in seperating good Joe and evil Joe. Good Joe always appeared to be a victim of circumstances which was why it was somehow easier (for the audience)to connect with him and made him look redeemable (despite the murders). But the true side of Joe is so evil that it's beyond any redemption, especially now that he has embraced his true nature (along with all the resources he has now). It's good that it ended right there. Also loved Phoebe's ending. She was just too pure.
Joe always lets kids go and protect them, by him framing Nadia it tells us that even that small, genuine, caring part of him is gone. S1 was us rationalizing him killing Beck, yes hes a stalker but in the end she cheated on him with Dr Nicky even after everything she and Joe went through. S2 was about even though he believes he does everything for love (the emotion not the character) he couldn't fathom that love thinks the same way about her killing people for Joe. S3 was honestly great for me. He hated love because he saw what he was trying to deny himself. That he kills cuz he can which she accepted. The fact that people love Joe explains why so many people get killed.
I would have expected Joe to follow up on Marianne's death...like an obituary or something. He would have read or watched news of police finding her "body."
She sadly most likely wouldn’t get news coverage considering her race. She even stated so in season 3 when explaining to Joe about what missing white woman syndrome actually is.
the only thing i dont understand is how joe was able to get the box of ryhs’s souvenirs into nadia’s flat when it seemed like she had just left joe’s flat a few moments before
@@limwewa5797 but Kate's dad gave Joe the address to find the Rhys he wanted dead, that ended up being the imaginary one. Kate's dad gave him the address to the fake Rhys ?
Season 5 should go the “heavy rain” game route, introduce a second main character like a detective or FBI agent that takes down Joel once in for all. Season 5 could take place several years later, where in the UK, society fears of this “jack the ripper” like serial killer. Joe has now killed so many people throughout the years because he enjoys it. But he is untouchable because he is married to Kate, who has money and power. Joe has embraced who he really is, a serial killer who enjoys killing. This season should bring an end to joe once in for all. Could make for some great television.
I don’t know what I was thinking. I knew Joe got this whole company thing, but I forgot he’d be allowed to access prisons too I was just thinking Nadia was being quiet because she thought nobody would believe her but it’s because Joe could do extra bad things to her and not get caught that is so unfair omg
@@pueroricanwaifu there are barely any serial killers anymore because murderers are generally caught before they can kill more than one or two people, because of security footage, DNA testing and awareness of the public.
That was a great ending, like I was impressed, shocked and my mouth was on the floor for the last 20min 👌🏾 how everything came together, I can’t believe I’m rooting for this man still
I would have liked it better for the plot if Joe's suicide attempt had actually been successful. The scene with him and the hallucinated Rhys on the bridge, their entire conversation touched me very much. Joe realizing all the terrible things he has done, but not managing to change and therefore committing suicide fits very well into the story and the show would have had a tragic but coherent ending. But then he is saved and you think he has changed, but then he has not. He murders Eddie and frames Nadia for it, although Kate, as his new girlfriend, could have easily gotten rid of the evidence Nadia found in Joe's apartment, just as she restored Joe's identity through her father's contacts and a lot of money. It makes no sense that Joe admits to his atrocities and even wants to commit suicide to stop them for good but then continues murdering. But killing Joe would have meant that the fourth season would be the last and since the show is still pretty successful the producers probably want to release a fifth season so they let Joe live.
Even though I definitely think that ending would have been a good fit, I think it will be even better if he gets what's coming to him and pays for his actions. I think maybe surviving changed his thought process and with Kate accepting him maybe he figured he can finally accept it and it's not such a big deal. S5 is in talks so I'm hoping it'll be a good time to see some real punshiment finally for him
Man he made so many people suffer in the series,i just want him to get killed by someone else,suicide Is a sort of escape from all the consequences,and that finale would have left me disappointed,he needs to get what he deserves,the Marienne and the Bird story part Is a really good piece of writing with a lot of raw emotions,i loved It and made me want Joe to die more
Seeing Joe fully accepted his killer self that he hated and constantly shunned away is disturbingly satisfying. This is like some kind of fucked up healing process where you are at peace with who u are and ur flaws, only that u are a mastermind serial killer 😀
finally an explanation on why incomprehensibly Joe didn't suspect and investigate Rhys at all (unlike the rest of the band) during the first half of the season. I was afraid it was a fatal plot hole for this serie
I just got into this show recently and just finished the 4th season. Joe obviously needs years of therapy. Many, many years. He also doesn’t know when to quit while he’s ahead. He survived a suicide attempt and ended up with this super rich girlfriend who is totally into him. Yet, I read that in the final season he gets yet another love interest. Joe convinces himself each time that he will reform for the sake of whatever relationship he is in, but always manages to stray. But it comes as no surprise. A wolf may wear sheep’s clothing. But he is still a wolf.
It’s more vigilante than self defense. It’s a rigorous killing because she allegedly hunted Eddie out to stop him. That’s illegal even though the motives are good.
My season 5 theory is that Joe hasn’t ‘finally accepted his dark side’. He’s like a pendulum swinging back and forth constantly out of balance. The brighter his light side shines the darker a shadow it casts. So I think he will have a mental passenger following him around all season and it will be his ‘good’ side this time. Foes from the past will return to try and sabotage him and he’ll realise he was blacking out in season 5 and leaving clues for them that led to his own downfall. His entire schtick is self sabotage. I’m hoping Love will play his ‘good’ mental passenger and spend all season tearing down Kate and pointing out that she’s a bad person (oh, it’s fine when she does it, but you couldn’t love me when I killed someone). They already set Love up as being a passenger inside of his head that is opposed to his darker nature. Then the biggest cliff hanger at the end would be him in court facing trial for his crimes, he looks out at the stands and sees Love sitting in the courtroom staring at him. He thinks it’s still her in his head, but then she stands up, starts interacting with people (excuse me, thank you etc) and realises that wasn’t in his head and Love actually survived and came to his trial, she smiles, winks and walks out. In my head-canon this would be the perfect way for the show to end.
@@ren9143 It’s not that I think she is. More the classic TV and movie trope that if you don’t physically see the body - assume they’re not actually dead. The creators have the freedom to bring her back alive if they wanted to.
Also why couldn’t she be alive? It’s funny fans of this show are fine with the ridiculous amount of plot armor they give Joe over four seasons, but them bringing back Love somehow is too ridiculous? Really? Hell simple, when she poisoned the knife handle, and knowing Joe’s past, she could have also had an antidote that she took when she left the room to attend to Henry. I mean hell she researched and worked with the poison and plants to make sure the dosage was right. Her and Joe are one and the same, just differences in impulse control. But she could and did match his wits throughout the two seasons she was in.
another major issue for Joe in season 5 will be that: since Joe has reintegrated his obsessive and killing side "Rhys" and so, will have the urge to kill in the future and won't be able to repress it unless he dissociates again, and since Kate has come to terms with his past as a killer, but only because Joe told him it was over, that he was like another person (which Kate sees as similar to his own past, working for his father) and Kate told Joe that from now they will "keep each other up", how will "full Joe" deal with his murderous side in the present? He'll probably have to hide it from Kate like he did with his previous love interests...unless Kate turns out to be like Quinn and okay with it (but this time, since Joe accepted himself, he may accept that Kate is as deranged as him) 
The ending of Season 4 of You was really horrifying . Joe embraced his dark side and got away with it again . This season was phenomenal and eerie . I felt so sorry for Nadia who got framed and i am hoping she , Marianne and Ellie will get justice at some point. I can’t wait for Season 5 and what will be next .
Damn Joe was cold with what he did to Nadia...but it was a smart plan that she came up with with Marianne who got to go home to her daughter without Joe knowing that she was still alive. xD but this is so bad now that Joe has this security behind him, season 5 is going to be some type of horrific killing field. He gets complacent about himself doing bad things and then when his "love" turns around and forgives him for the abridged version of the truth then he gets confident and calm about the bad things that he does. I thought Joe was going to get psychiatric help after finding out that his Rhys was an illusion/the dark parts of him. But now I'm wondering if old friends or enemies will come for him since he's back to being Joe once more.
Same I thought he would get on schizophrenic drugs to deal with the split personality and it would end on a more hopeful note that Kate would keep him accountable on the right path lol
This is my 3rd comment in this video lol. But when Nadia said Joe's biggest flaw is being obsessive and not letting things go, it was kind also her own flaw. When Marianne told her there is no way fighting against Joe, but Nadia despite saving Marianne couldn't let things go and that's what got her killed
Did anyone else notice that the journalist at the end of season 4 is the same guy who worked at Love's family store in season 2 (calvin)? I just looked him up on IMDB, it's the same guy.
YES!!!!!!! I was wondering if he got famous after Joe came back in the spot light sorta like Sherry and Cary's TED talk. Seems like he capitalized off being a Quinn employee and Joe's friend from Madrea Linda.
The one thing I would have loved to see this season is joe go down for his crimes. Imagine if he got caught during the time of him not knowing about his split personalities. Him professing and trying to prove it wasn’t him waiting trial, the trial arrives and they play back all the crimes and evidence to him. Him realising then he is mad.
i saw joe like this from season 2, when ellie had to be without her sister even in the first season when he was against peach. the show is made so even if you think joe is hypocritical and making excuses, you can still watch it bc of how love is his karma. it’s so realistic that love was his match but once he realized they were the same he can’t confront himself so it evolves into him detaching from his personality, doing all this on autopilot..at a certain point he goes from creepy to just his soul is not even there
The ending didn't make sense. After so many incidents of unintended deaths, Joe FINALLY realizes that to prevent any more unintended deaths he had to commit suicide. And he FOLLOWS through, but of course in keeping with the show's consistent meta-level humor, it turns out that what he intends (suicide in this case) is not what happened. BUT the fact that he gave a sincere attempt at suicide shows that he *had* turned a new leaf! So much so that he was ready to let Kate turn him in. But Kate made him an offer that was just too emotionally enticing for him to turn down: a chance at love *and* not living a lie *and* a plausible plan to prevent future unintended deaths (she would try to keep him good; he'd do the same for her). So he accepted the offer. BUT THAT'S when his character inexplicably becomes evil for no good reason. Instead of trying to be good (but perhaps occasionally slipping and hopefully she being there to course-correct him), he just becomes full-on evil, DESTROYING all the emotional stakes and giant epiphany that lead up to him attempting suicide in the first place. What a bunch of baloney.
@@Ryan-gc3sd Suicide attempt = life isn't worth living if good isn't possible. Kate offering to keep him good = good is possible = life is worth living
I'd like to believe there will be a season 5 set in NewYork where the show will end with Joe getting his poetic justice....you things coming full circle.
I really didn’t like the plot twist that Joe was the Eat the Rich Killer and that he was hallucinating the whole time. In past seasons, they’ve had times where something messed with Joe’s lucidness, like when he hits his head in a car accident in season 1 or when he’s on drugs in season 2. There was nothing to explain why he would be having such real hallucinations for such a long time. It felt like a cop-out. It’s the same dissatisfying feeling of experiencing a whole story and then being told at the end, “it was all a dream.” And it also doesn’t even make Joe seem fully responsible because he wasn’t in control of his own actions. I see this happen a lot with tv shows when they become more plot driven instead of character driven. They have the characters doing things that are out of character for the sake of the plot. Like someone else said, why would they have Joe put in so much effort to change and be better (even to the point he was willing to commit suicide) just to have him go back to being killer Joe? They did it because the writers wanted him to be the main villain, but it didn’t make sense in relation to his character and who he was trying to be.
Season 5 is gonna be interesting. My prediction is that since he's back in New York, theres only 1 person still there from Season 1 that is on to Joe and that is Peach's investigator, also there is still the jar of urine he left at her house when he killed her so my prediction is that Joe is gonna get hunted by this guy
@@KlaudiaShaefferr there is no family lmao. The mother is in rehab and the father is gone away. The mother even hinted to Joe to kill Love before she hurts him or Henry so yeah.
I wonder if he truly told EVERYTHING to Kate. If she really knows absolutely everything and yet still chooses to be with him then she is just as bad as him. I mean, it didn't really make sense to me that she was beating herself up over the whole causing children to die of cancer thing. She HATED herself for it and yet she heard how Joe killed ALL those people and didn't feel deterred at all? Like maybe he told her the same thing he told everyone else, that he killed Love because she was mentally ill and she tried to kill him. And she probably thinks he killed her dad because her dad threatened him or something. I don't know how he would have twisted the other murders in his favor. Unless he maybe left out some of the murders and she doesn't know of all of them? If he told her straight up I locked up two women in a cage and held them there for long periods of time before killing them, and I also stalked them and killed anyone who got in my way and she ignored all that... She is also awful. I mean over all 4 seasons he has killed 16 people total. If the guy I liked confessed that to me, I don't care what memories we had together and what sweet words we shared, I would be appalled. I would have called the police and reported him. Overall I loved this season. A lot of plot twists I didn't see coming. I just wonder what Kate's personality is truly. Is she really that wicked that she could cover for Joe like that? They never showed Joe explaining his story to her so we don't know what exactly he told her. I guess that's up to us to imagine.
The way this ended was very “ball’s in your court, Nadia”. I thought Joe would finally die but no. Too easy. I would love to see the next season be from Nadia’s perspective or even his son’s. They come together to end Joe. Does not make any sense to have this psychopath just carry on and doesnt send a good message either. I’d note Marienne too but i would assume her priority is staying invisible from now on to raise her daughter
I enjoyed this but I was really hoping Ellie Alves would have shown up again. Jenna Ortega has said that she wants to come back and play her character again
Perfect ending to You season 4 part 2. Honestly, the way they ended it is actually how they should end the show. It’s the literally the perfect ending to it all. I don’t think they should make a season 5 and drag it on.
I feel like Marianne for sure will be back next season & help Nadia once she sees she’s in prison. Maybe characters from other seasons will come back once they see the news that Joe is alive & finally stop him
I would love a season 5 , years in the future, with either Paco or Joe's son worked into the story, imagine Paco or his son being the reason he gets taken down once and for all
look my real question is how how he managed to build and also get rid of the cage so quickly? what the heck? there must be footage of him buying pieces for it and people MUST have seen him carry this shit down there, like it would have taken 2 seconds for the police to gather evidence
I feel like the twist would be Joe is locked in a cage. In his mind, while his evil side is in control thinking that he's been integrated and Joe will become his ghost/Jiminy cricket.
Possible plot lines for seson 5: 1- Lockwood family conflict: Kate have 6 brothers, and they could fight her over the henritance. 2- Love's family: Season 4 started with the hired killer of the Quinn family letting Joe go, so they pretty much hate him. 3- Joe trying to have his son back. 4- Nadia, Marienne and others teaming up to f*ck up Joe: Joe have already killed so many, and have had unfairly imprisoned at least 2 people: Beck's doctor and Dawn. So he is a man of many enemies. A lawyer, specially a female one, representing those people, could be very interesting.
@@yukijames1321 I agree with you, to me at least although joe did right by leaving him with a loving couple who won’t experience a childhood like both joe and Love, but it feels like he’s just abandoned him to now start a new life with Kate if you get my drift? But I agree with you about it be concluded
in the show at the very end of the last episode, he has a line where he says that the general consensus was that he made the right choice to hand off henry to those neighbors because he’s in better hands. basically joe got away with everything as usual.
@@Mia-fp9tr It could be but there’s still Love’s father who knows Joe’s still alive . I found it strange he hasn’t found Henry with all his money. At least he would have a nanny raising his grandson and he definitely wouldn’t see him adopted to strangers. Since Joe abandoned Henry Love’s dad has a custody claim on the baby and not the adopted parents.
@@Collectibles49 I love your thought process but here's a question. Isn't Kate's dad or now Kate herself is more powerful than Love's dad? And I would think that kate would be in the process of bring Henry over to London or at least making sure that the couple (I forgot their names in season 3) would either be moved to somewhere safe or at least be sent money to continue to take care of henry. But I do love what you said!
❤🔪Thank YOU for watching! ❤🔪
Check out my YOU Season 4 Part 1 video here: ua-cam.com/video/akCYSCPOQAE/v-deo.html
Check out my YOU Season 3 video here: ua-cam.com/video/2bi2P-3rVEk/v-deo.html
Check out my other Horror/Thriller Videos here: ua-cam.com/play/PLY.html...
I miss when you said "daddy loves you very much"
You waited too long to drop this and where’s the carnival row season 2 reviews😭
I'm interested to see if Love's father will come after Joe again since he's alive and well living back in America. 🤔
Joe had more chemistry with Rhys in part two then he did with any girl in any season... But he was also in his head so I guess Joe had the best chemistry with himself.
Actually in Part 1 when Rhys hadn't yet been revealed to be the killer, I'd kinda started to suspect that maybe RHYS was Joe's new love interest! I mean, Joe seemed to be so taken with him, he liked the way Rhys spoke, the things he said and he was always so attentive. Of course it was all his obsession as we learn later on but as of then, I felt like they were building it up to make Rhys Joe's new unlucky love obsession.
@@hopeslies3364 joe ain’t with that 🌈 shit. Nice try
@@hopeslies3364 yall weird ..
They really did. The actor that plays Rhys did a REALLY good job.
@@hopeslies3364 you weren’t even that wrong. He did become obsessed with him, after all
I thought Rhys had a twin or something the way he acted like he didn’t know Joe, man every detail after that had my eyes glued to the screen. Well done
Same, and when evil Joe kidnapped Marriene, I thought it was plastic surgery on some other guy to frame him
@@wellthen4128 Straight up lolol
@@wellthen4128 na hell no😂ur slow
@@wellthen4128 same or I thought they drugged marienne to make her hallucinate it to be Joe pahahah
i had to go back bc i was not understanding lmao
I love when Beck makes an appearance, something about her being the first make her words more visceral, when she said “what did you do this time?” I got chills
Sameee
Elizabeth Lail did improve as an actor. Props to her
she wasn't the first though. It was candace.
@@aminyapussi4740 Candace was knocked unconscious and was not killed by Joe, she was killed by Love. So officially he killed Beck.
@@aminyapussi4740technically Beck was first cause Candace didn’t die until love killed her
I have a theory. In season one, Dr Nicky said that there’s two Joe Goldbergs . Meaning, that Joe’s mental state was slowly deteriorating from the very beginning of the show.
I hadn't thought about it that way!!! He meant it literally this entire time then! Because when forty spoke to him, then it clicked to him that his dark side was much more insidious that dr nicky thought it was
It wasnt literally two...It was about difference in his appearence to different ppl and how he lied aboit his real self. Knowing these type of series I dont think they thought about split personality before s4 plus its kinda stated that Joe only got split persona in this season
you stole this from the other mf in that one video
Yeah, I wasn’t a fan of the split personality thing at first since it’s kind of a tired and campy trope, but the more I thought about it the more I started to like in the context of the last three seasons. Since the very beginning Joe has not only been in serious denial of who he really is, but he’s been increasingly struggling to maintain that denial as the series has gone on. So it culminating in him developing an entire split personality does feel like a natural continuation of what he’s been doing for the whole series.
omg i just got goosebumps ur so right
There's a scene where Rhys asks Joe "why are we still seperate"? Meaning, why is Joe still in denial of the evil part of himself (treating it as a separate entity). So I think at the end, when Joe looks at his reflection and sees Rhys's face, it symbolizes that they have finally become one and has embraced the dark side of himself as Himself.
You can also see that he now duly shows all the traits of a psychopath. Like being superficial! He does have that trait in all of the previous seasons but in the last one when him and Kate are giving the interview, he goes on full pretentious mode.
Also this season had him care about Nadia not as much as Ellie but a little but still he doesn’t hesitate to frame her
Changed it y’all
@@tatael15 He doesn't kill Nadia, he kills her boyfriend and frames her for his murder. He's been irredeemable for a while but that was so shitty, I was rooting for her to get Joe locked up.
@@dikhed1983 nah she had it coming for being nosy.
@@dikhed1983 I think she should have stopped when she helped madelline cause she knew how he is. She became nosy and he got her but I was also rooting for her. But he is fake and a psychopath what else can we expect from him.
@@hihello9518 but he did know she knew about Marienne. Or at least “Rhys” did so subconsciously, so did Joe. He would’ve framed or killed her anyways i think
Joe is officially at his worst. He has fully accepted his killer side, and he now has the means to get away with anything. He is so wealthy and protected that he can kill for fun and pay people to cover it up. He went from being the eat the rich killer to being the rich. He has become the type of person who he always resented, and he loves it. At this point he has nowhere else to go but down, and I truly believe that justice will be served next season. Hopefully by marienne and ellie, and they can clear Nadia's name while they are at it.
it's a lot better than watching him make excuses for every bad thing he does. I think it would be interesting to see what he will do with all that power he's obtained via Kate and possibly how their relationship would play out now that Joe is fully accepting his evilself. or the series could just end there and it would make sense.
You are what you eat
@@bensellars3894 OH shit!!
Bruh stfu I never want Joe to be caught 😂
@@alexhorstman9849 😂😂😂😂 Joe must pay for his sins
The most horrifying twist of the season is that Joe thought it’ll be a good idea to shave his beard.
I know the beard was the move
he looks better without the beard
I know right?! They definitely chose to have him shave it to show the Joe we know from the first season. The whole show we see Joe changing. He is still a murderer the whole time but we gradually see him trying to deny the dark side of himself starting in season 3 and then of course all of season 4. Him shaving and looking the same as he did in season 1 I think symbolizes him reverting back to those roots. He even says that he went back "home" to his old life like Kate's father was talking about (i.e he went back to his old self)
agree I want the beard back!!!
😂😂😂 agreed
Though out the season ,I felt so bad for phoebe seeing her happy ending made my days.
Idk I found her kinda annoying. She acts very childish and when Kate tried to warn her about Adam, she became a bitch. I'm glad she moved on with her life though
She was my favorite character this season
and marianne too
Half of her friends are dead and the other half are sociopaths. Girlie deserved better than those shenanigans and I'm glad she chose to walk away in the end
@@bichen-up-ur and Edward
To me, the entire message of this show is a socio-political commentary about us as an audience are so easily tricked by the kindness of some people, even though they truly are monsters.
It shows how utterly superficial the world is, that so many people will look past at a guy like Joe, a seemingly normal and non threatening man, who turns out to be an absolute monster.
Despite him being an actually terrible person, Joe is right a lot about the world. He's very in touch with how people act and how they lie to themselves, but is ironically unaware that he does it himself.
Him embracing who he really is works as an actual finale, and also works as a set up for season 5. You is defintely one of my favorite shows.
Bro it's show how shallow ppl are in this creal world
I hate Joe with all my heart. How he tries to trick us into sympathizing ugh... But it is indeed a great show and I’m low key learning a lot about life and different personalities.
So true
I absolutely hated Joe in the first three seasons but started liking him a little bit in the part 1 of fourth season but when part 1 ended then I realised how I got tricked by his another personality and now I hate him even more than I did before. But he is also right in many ways about how this world works.
@@hihello9518 I love how penn badgley even hates his own character lmfao 🤣
I definitely get fooled by Joe every time he's doing something seemingly good
Season 4 was absolutely brilliant, especially the second part. It finally delivers what they were struggling to do in the first 3 seasons. All this time they made us feel bad about Joe and there was some excuse for all the kills but now they've finally shown us who Joe really is. Framing innocent Nadia, in the end, was the last straw. Joe is a bad guy. And he accepts that as well. He wants to kill because he likes it. He's a full-blown psychopath. Would love to see what they would do with him in season 5 but even if we don't get another season, I think they wrapped it perfectly.
It didn’t struggle, it was a build up. That’s what makes a great series.
He needs to get his karma in season 5 or else the show will overstay its welcome
It was trash Especially like I get Joe is evil the seasons before made you believe like you want him to get away with murder but the fact that he’s already plotted murder on his ex doctor it’s not right but OK I’ll let that slide but he did his student Nadia and framed her for murder and killed her boyfriend was unnecessary I hope season five Marianne can get her justice and also people forget Ellie from season three and Victor the little boy and we’ll from season three I hope all of them come back maybe where the whole season five is where Joe is dreaming of going to jail and he’s hallucinating that he’s actually in jail I mean he was all about saving people but he killed Ellie sister Delilah technically it wasn’t him but you get the point and he killed Marianne and I get the season four of us trying to introduce that he doesn’t really care about anything He just has a fix station in Obsession and stuff people he think he can fix but he can’t even fix himself I hope he gets caught sorry not sorry
@@philleotardo5829 exactly People forgetting Eli will identity he took Nadia like he did his dude is so dirty and he killed her boyfriend that was so unnecessary he needs to get his karma at this point he literally cared about the boy Victor but he ruined his life but not as bad as Eli even though he didn’t kill Delilah he probably would’ve killed her if love haven’t killed her and then he tried killing Marianne and didn’t care because he didn’t wanna get caught he needs his karma most definitely
@@zolaeight7574 I agree, partly. It wasn't really a build up. They went back and forth with his moral dilemma when he killed someone in all the seasons, including this one, but in the end we rooted for Joe. We did the same in this season until he framed Nadia, which was right before the ending. Now, he has embraced his negative side and he's gonna kill with conscience on his side from now on. But, I do agree that they took their time to show us this (even if it was just in one scene towards the end) rather than rushing this before.
I feel like clean shaven Joe is the true Joe
He's got it going on either way: beard or not!
@@droiddevx03 lmao
@@droiddevx03 lol
@@droiddevx03 he looks just like Rick even without beard
Penn pulled off "rhys" and joe combined look so well at the end.
Biggest mystery of season 4 "what the hell Jonathan said to Phoebe?"
😂 right
🤣
Oh yh I forgot abt that
YES i was waiting for the reveal the whole time!!
Real ones still remember the piss jar.
Season 4 part 2 was so much better than I expected.
Agreed! I didn't love the first half. The second half more than made up for it though.
how did phoebe's dad know jonathan's real name is joe?
@@PabloRuizMega it's in his brain he was having an event
The main thing I learnt from Nadia's character in S4 is that you can't make every situation in life fair. It's important to be mindful of your limits- you're not a superhero that can save every situation and make everything fair, you're a human.
Can we all agree Kate is an even crazier person. If she truly knows everything about him and she still accepts him, she deserves whatever he does to her. Just saying.
I think Kate thinks Joe killed only Love. He’s still her angel in her eyes.
@@UniquerHandle Yeah I don’t think Kate knows that Joe has killed over 10 ppl maybe even over 20 that includes her friends and her own father 😂
I don’t think Kate knows everything about him. From their conversation in the hospital it seems like she’s only aware that he killed Rhys and Love.
@@UniquerHandle Kate knows Joe killed their father at least. She helped cover it up.
@@frankd9945 No she doesn't know that Joe killed her father. She told him in the hospital that her father died and said that his murder was job-related (indicating that his bodyguard killed him which Joe staged).
nadia better get her justice in s5, she did not deserve that 😭 especially after saving marienne..
It’s no season 5
@@justinpereira7945 what?
@Gabriel agreed lol
She is really a cute character why people thinks she is annoying, I never understand
@@msko5180 cuz some people find good people annoying.
Best part about that reveal with how it turns out that the real Rhys was an innocent man while the guy that Joe was talking to was really a part of his psyche, just throws out the window a story where Joe is actually pretty much the hero who is out to take down this psychopath. Because that’s not how this show and his character work. Joe is not an anti-hero, he’s a villain
@Gabriel man you’re in every comment talking out your ass. we aren’t rooting for shit 😭
@Gabriel whose we?
@@bgos4727 This Gabriel guy is I think a Joe apologist. I found him in literally replying to every comment supporting Joe so don't mind him lol.
@Gabriel accept that only you want to see him win
I feel like I had a slight hunch that Rhys was a figment of his imagination (given how detached he was and how he never interacted with anyone) until the scene he knocks Joe and Roald out, chaining up both of them. I don’t understand how Joe managed to do that to himself, Roald, or discover the underground basement part of the place.
It’s honestly the biggest thing that makes it fall a bit short for me
I think that it’s genius how they ended it. From season 1-3 Joe has been trying to convince himself and by extension us the audience that he’s not a bad person but now, finally, in the end he recognizes that he’s a monster and he has decided to embrace his true self fully rather than running from it. Now that the audience can see clearly that he’s a monster we’ll be rooting from his downfall. Now he’s embracing his true self and he has been given more power and money to avoid the consequences of his own actions. Now he’s just like the horrible powerful people that he originally despised. In the interview he did with his gf at the end of the final episode, when the interviewer asked him about them being a power couple and them helping the world he conveniently said that SHE is going to do good, he didn’t say WE. Which seems to me that despite telling her he was going to change he doesn’t plan to.
after he set nadia up like that, it's clear that he does intend to change his ways but for the worst this time, not in the way she and the audience thought he meant. He realized he can't be a good person, no matter how hard he tries, so now the only choice he feels he has left to prevent himself from having another breakdown is to embrace the monster he truly is.
agree !
Idk man I’m still rooting for Joe it’s a tv show😂
I didn't like the ending. Joe got away from all the consequences. I liked the way he confronts his dark side on the bridge in final EP and there he accepts he has done so many bad things. He dying was only way to stop all this chaos and in a way save Kate's life. That would have been perfect ending.
@@booksandwine6670 Joe 100% should have died lol
The ending was brilliant, finally making a statement that Joe is an irredeemable monster who deserves no symphaty. And overall gotta say, this season was my second favorite, just behind season 1.
My sympathy for Joe after that cold ending is even bigger
@@damian8392 facts, he embraced who he is and I love that
Season 1 and 2 are the best and season 2 is my perfect ending
Feel bad for Nadia and Edward. Nadia was too good at snooping or maybe it’s more accurate to say that she was bad at it. Lol
I think Joe’s going to break Nadia out so he can force her to murder someone.
She was terrible. She thought she was so we thought she was but in the end we learn that Joe is indeed the bigger badder wolf.
She already had a clean plan with saving marienne. She took things too far.
i am glad that she could atleast save marienne though... The shot at last of marienne with her daughter made me Happy.. ❤️❤️..
And i guess marienne would come back in the next part too.. The one link who is alive.
She is a horrible snooper WHY KIND OF idiot sees a STARVED PERSON LOCKED IN A CAGE AND DOESNT CALL YHE POLICE mariennes reason to not call makes sense but Nadia shouldn’t have listened to her
Joe has always wanted someone to love him for who he is and accept his ‚tendencies‘ without being disgusted by him like beck or crazy like love . Kate accepts joe as he is , and that’s what’s also helped him accept his dark side he doesn’t have to pretend anymore and that’s what he has always wanted . Mann I’m pumped for season 5 … best season so far
Part 2 went soooo hard
It’s insane
Yeah but he also had that with Love expected he was a hypocrite and found her disgusting for killing to protect the people she loved. I think he only likes the chase, not the girl. He doesn’t care about love, he cares about the challenge and once he achieves the challenge (gets the girl), he gets tired of them and finds someone else to start his new hunt.
@@nekocat4730cry about it
He’s gonna find something wrong with her in due time . Joe doesn’t truly want love, he’s just like Tom- he likes to establish control over these girls in the form of protection
@@justinpereira7945 cry about it
@@thecat5819 no more seasons
I find it interesting that Rhys is literally the first man that Joe has ever become obsessed with. Joe even made a box for him with his sweaty gym rag in it, he only does that for girls. I thought men were safe from his obsession.
I agree
Well it was more or less established Joe suffers from a condition. So he grew to be obsessed with Rys just as Dawn was obsessed with Pheobe. So this instance is a bit different than his past romantic encounters, being that it’s platonic.
well we saw that he's getting worse and changing his own rules in many ways. it was only a matter of time.
This is a great point!
Joe was Joeing harder than he's ever Joe'd this season lmao. Great breakdown TS 👍🏾
He was the Joest Joe of all the Joes we've seen so far.
@@Septa7Seven 😂
👏🏾
Think people were simping too much and excusing everything so they had no choice but to up the ante
His narrations crack me up every time
I want to see jenna ortega ,Nadia, and Marianne to come back for season 5 ,and take an ultimate revenge from Joe for their lost once.
What ever happened with paco
@Gabriel f no, it would be awesome
@Gabriel why cringe? Who tf can connect everything that he has done besides them?
that would be badass! have a feeling it won't end well for all of em' tho...
@Gabriel so if Joel has to win, there’s no need to make another season, and they already suggested another one.
Only Marienne and/or Nadia it’s needed. Nadia hasn’t spoken anything and Marienne could help her if she ends up knowing what happened to her.
Also, Nadia was writing a novel. I could be so satisfying to see her get her revenge and publishing it in the final scene. That’s more realistic that having Joel with his ridiculous plot armor. Even in How To Get Away With Murder wasn’t that easy…
What’s ironic about the Jekyll and Hyde reference is that the story isn’t about split personalities. It’s about the “good” guy, Dr. Jekyll, creating a chemical mask for himself to slip into to perform heinous acts without bearing the consequences of them. All the blame would go to “Mr. Hyde”, even though no personality exists: it’s all Dr. Jekyll. Only when he commits a crime he cannot escape from does he start to lose control over which form he’s in, with the Mr. Hyde identity, guilt, and consequences finally catching up with Dr. Jekyll so he would have to pay the price for his actions
It’s just metaphorical, it’s not meant to be a literal comparison
This season was so full of twists. I almost thought the show will probably end when he jumped off the bridge. But of course..not. this season was brilliant. The scene with Nadia gave me shivers
His nurturing caring side for the younger gen(paco, jenna ortega etc) completely disappears as his Hyde metamorphoses into a bigger stronger dark being and that's what's scary - he accepts inner evil instead of rejecting it
@@justbones8795 YESSS exactly
@@justbones8795 Yes
why do I feel like kate has a secret? she's still kind of a mystery to me
Love 2.0 maybe? She kinds reminds me of love at certain angles
saaaaaaaaame
Honestly, I think her dad told her about his past self and used Joe to kill her dad so he would leave her alone but that’s just a theory lol
@@mariaguates wow I did not think of that but that makes A LOT of sense. The first thing I thought about after Joe killed her dad was.. wait..he already told her about some of his past, she knows he’s dangerous and does unspeakable things under the pretext of love.. so why would she tell him all her dad business the way she did? Knowing he’s unstable? Idk
I think she killed the her friends boyfriend. Remember she told how she was into bdsm and that it scares her boyfriends off?
Season 5 has to give us closure for all the people joe murdered. From beck,peach, malcolm, love, etc. He has to face the consequences for his actions.
Lol for what joy? It's better the way this is. This IS closure. Him being the most powerful he's ever been. That's the consequence. This isn't NCIS or Grey's Anatomy where everything balances. It's You. It's what it is.
@@daviddegea3373 That’s how YOU want it to end, what good is it if he just keeps killing and killing and getting away with it? It’ll keep getting predictable. It has to be some resistance. Nobody wants to see something end the same everytime, him taking care of everything and living happily after
@@daviddegea3373 oh it will, even in this world, even in real life, you dont get away with anything, life creeps up at some point, take it 10 20 years but it does. So joe will definitely get karma. He's especially weak now since he's totally dependant on his girlfriend. What happens if she breaks up? We never know
@@realbossman810 I want to see Joe get away with everything.
@@daviddegea3373kate literally took over a business that has been killing people and getting away with it for decades. It wont stop with her or him tjays the point
People who know about Joe and might bring justice :
Season 1:Paco, Karen ,Detective from Peach's family,
Season 2: Ellie , Cop David Fincher and Dr. Nicky.
Season 3: Theo, The Hakuna matata couple who survived the cage , Marienne
Season 4: Nadia and Marienne.
Eagerly waiting for season 5. The show needs to end on a right note ethically.
Penn did an emmy worth acting ,but Joe needs to get the long due karma.
Paco is with joe
I'm pretty sure all of Madre Linda knows the truth now. Since Theo and the Conrad's lived to tell the tale
I’m still a a little confused on the timeline of when Joe was in the hospital, Nadia and Edward waking up in the library- then they are in his apartment gathering the evidence, Joe is already out of the hospital, able to plant evidence in Nadia’s apartment, go back to his in time to kill Edward? I know it was technically just a near-drowning (well he did die for a sec) and maybe he was able to get discharged quickly but then he would have had to find out that Nadia was poking about, somehow separate himself from Kate, change his clothes etc… it seemed a bit rushed at the end and I kinda took me away from what was really happening and the meaning behind it.
Rhys was on to Nadia already when Joe asks her to stay behind in class and then she misses the next class and since Rhys is joe it actually makes sense.
@@hadtobemetill doesn’t make sense. Even with his suspicious, how does he have time to do all that??
We don't know exactly what time things are taking place in the scenes. I just figured nadia was digging in his apartment days after he got out of the hospital.
My guess is the new resources he has under Kate. He makes a point saying what he can do now is so much easier.
It also doesn't make sense that he easily framed Eddie for Rhys's death when he probably has an alibi since he was in London and nowhere near the countryside where Rhys was killed
For me, it was disappointing that Joe survived. The second part of S4 was great, but I was hoping for an ending. When he woke up in the hospital, all the hype I had during the last 4,5 episodes disappered in a moment. I think some thins has to be ended, and this was the perfect time for it.
It would've been good. But I think seeing him go down would be better. I believe they have a S5 in talks so hopefully he will pay and it'll be wrapped up with a nice bow
i think the idea of Joe not getting a redemption but instead pushing it further is a reasonable thing to do to his character, but i wish it was better executed as well as it should have been the last season, they could've easily finish it within a couple more episodes or if the final episode took a different direction
Saaame! I was so irritated seeing him the hospital bed chilling. Like eww, be gone! They better kill him or take his ass to jail in Season 5 because I’m tired of Joe.
Exactly! That's what I thought. Him dying would have been perfect ending.
@@EntrEsprit It was clear this would never be the ending, as the season started with Joe talking about being on holidays in Europe. It was always clear he would return full circle to the US, and even better, NYC.
The thing that didn't sit well with me was A)How did no Cameras get him ever?
B)Why didn't Nadia go to the police just as she found Marianne in the cage because at that time Joe didn't even know where Marianne was and and why would Marianne act so dumb and tell her not to call the police. Nadia could have told so many people about the cage and rescued Marianne and got Joe caught. At that point the only thing that saved Joe was plot armor
C)Why did Nadia decide to collect evidence and tell someone when it was already too late
D)Why did Kate fall for Joe at all? She didn't even seem to like him that much
E)Dawn. She was also shown as taking pictures of Joe and looking at him suspiciously like a journalist. There was never a scene where they showed her to be specifically obsessed with Phoebe.
F)It didn't feel like the YOU i fell in love with, it's spiraled out way too much and only plot armour seems to be keeping Joe safe and not his actual brains.
Joe can go to any length to get away with everything and anything he does. So there’s no point in calling the police. Nadia and Marienne would have been killed together instead if she called the police.
For B, first of all, neither Marianne nor Nadia knew that Joe didn’t know where she was. So her going to the police for info she didn’t even know wouldn’t have made sense. And the reason why Marianne didn’t want to go to the police is because she was convinced that he’ll just escape and fine her again. That the police will have this evidence against him but wouldn’t matter cuz he’ll run away. And after he runs away he’ll just find her again and kidnap her or kill her. That why Marianne didn’t wanna go to the police
Marianne didn't want the police involved because she illegally moved her daughter from the US to Europe after she was the prime suspect in her ex-husband's murder, which Joe committed to help her after the husband was about to gain full custody.
I agree with you 100 %, especially with point B). ANY reasonable person would go to the police. ANY. Why would you risk your own life? I'm pretty sure the police would come up with the way to rescue Marianne and convince Joe. The one think I hate about this show is the fact that he gets away with everything. It's so unrealistic.... -_-
B) if she went to the cops with no evidence it was joe, he would be on police radar but not under custody. So joe would do what he does best and run away/create new identity.
C. The evidence on the murder of the Rhys would actually put joe behind bars immediately and was the only chance of stopping joe.
D. Kate was mad at joe a few times in season, pushing him away at times but Kate fell in love because joe kept telling her that he didn’t judge her from her past and that she’s a good person. Add a couple sex scenes and yeah, they’re in love
E. There were several mentions of Phoebe having a stalker in news papers and phoebes own feelings that she was being watched. It was only hinted that was the case, until Dawn pretended to be a servant and kidnapped her for the sole purpose of protecting her… which is pretty obsessive.
F. The show did changed a bit. Starting off as a romance/killer thriller on the surface. But there was always hints and elements to the story about joe’s psyche. hence why we saw his childhood, abuse from Mooney/ his mother. The fact that he killed his mothers bf to protect her. The fact that dr.Nicky told Joe that were 2 Joe Goldbergs. 1 that wants to love and another who is broken and do bad things. Season 1-3 made it seem like he only killed out of necessity to live and that he’s a decent person but that’s not the true joe… There just diving deeper into the characters mind and little bit less of the romantic killing, since that alone would get sorta stale/predictable over 4-5 seasons
There is no plausible explanation anyone could ever tell me that would convince me that this ending could've actually happened. I just have so many issues with the unbreakable plot armor joe has been accumulating progressively as each season goes on.
Surely one detective out there would at least be able to put together that joe was closely involved in the crimes, deaths and disappearances of candace, beck, love, malcom, simon, gemma, delilah, forty, peach, rhys, nadia and paco; has the show also forgotten that sherry and cary are still alive and were attacked by him (and love)? A sloppy "i made my helpless husband do it" in a suicide note doesn't change the fact he was complicit in kidnapping them. Theo also saw on the cameras that he put natalie's body in the car.
A ferret could put that all together and make a solid case against him oh but since he's left those places and has big fancy lawyers who can clean any name offscreen he's fine.
Police dont just go around trying to find these things. They are spread out in time and in different locations and under different names nd have no correlation with each other. Its very realistic to see that theyd jus close a case to not wanna deal with it. It happens in the real world everyday😭 one piece of evidence is found and even if theirs holes, they go with it. Their are a ton of real world cases where someone is innocent but because of circumstance nd how they didng further the investigation becuz of the 1 evidence found, they serve a ton of years
Paco didn’t disappear in the same way the others did
I mean, you say that but then the Clinton kill list
Can I just say remember the investigator from the salinger family? Where'd he go?
You have no idea how bad police is at their work
with Joe having a high profile relationship and getting his birth name back, I'm hoping that his mother comes to try and reconnect with him in season 5.
Have you noticed it was the first season without flashbacks?
@@simonskrinyar9510 it had flashbacks tho? whenever Marianne was on screen lol
@@noel5289 I was thinking about kid Joe
Y’all do not pay attention. There is no season 5. This was the final seasonnnnn
@@adannachiamaka524 Netflix literally confirmed Season 5 will be the final season
I think the fun thing about the show that kept us coming back is that no matter what awful things Joe did, you were still rooting for him. After the Nadia incident, I finally decided I was no longer rooting for him and I think that killed my interest. I no longer feel he was justified, or that he truly felt remorse in some capacity. Although it was obvious that was never true but we were some how manipulated to feel that way, but that's no longer the case
he was never justified lol... the moment he killed Beck was the moment every action he did was not justified.
Exactly my thoughts. The show was going in and out of redemption and just when I thought it would finally settle...the ending happened.
Aiiyaaa
You only stopped rooting for him when he framed Nadia, remember he tortured Rhys, an innocent man?
@@dragond1537 we the viewers didn't build a bond with him in the same way we did with Nadia. Many of Joes victims were innocent...
LOVED THIS SEASON THE MOST THE BREAKDOWN OF JOE IS WELL DONE
I loved this season. I love that Joe is actually embracing the fact that he is a bad guy. He is a killer. He's no longer ashamed and because of that, the audience will no longer see him as the good guy or be sympathetic towards him. I can't wait for season 5
This is by far my favorite season. The bait and switch twist was awesome. Part 1 really got all of us because I seriously thought Rhys being the killer was a cheap cop out for Joe to become the hero. And I didn't even notice that Rhys only interacted with Joe. The Twist was hiding in plain sight. I'm very excited to see what direction they go in season 5
I have a bad feeling Maryanne will kill Joe but it will be predictable :(
Ed Speleers really did a good job! Loved him as Rhys. Hope to see him in s5
He was also the fit footman in Downton Abbey
Now I get why they made a second part. It was quite clever I really love this Anti-Hero Joe dang so good
He's not an anti hero. He's a villain.
@@geraldking9385 they’re referencing the song played at the end of the ep I think
Where's the hero part? He's just evil
@@geraldking9385 I agree he went full villain by killing Eddie.
12:14 I think Joe is aware that during his suicide attempt and flirt with death, he actually integrated "Rhys" again (=the obsessive, controlling and killing part of him that he had been repressing for a while) given his final speech, and the fact that he doesn't see "Rhys" as a separate being anymore, but as a reflection of him. That's why he didn't hesitate to coldly kill Edward and frame Nadia for it, just to not ruin his chance with Kate who knows what kind of man he is, and the life that goes with it (he could have run away like he did before when refusing to kill) that's why he said "this time I'm using all of me" while doing it. He doesn't try to change anymore, he has accepted this side of him without shame
i thought was he did was frame edward nd made nadia seem like it was self defense 😀??? Did i hear him wrong idk
@@xxedfusionxx1979 I understood he framed Edward as the eat the rich killer and made police believe that Nadia killed him because of this discovery, in order to stop him, but I didn't hear it was supposed to be in self defense.
I find it quite poetic how Joe aggressively threw rhys into the lake, then jump right after, thinking he's getting rid of both of them only to wake up as... Rhys. It's like they fusionned when they were in the water somehow
@@maevab2923 I think his "death" for several seconds (maybe NDE?) is supposed to have resolved his dissociation, even if it's not how it works in reality ^^
@@reginaphalange9417 i was like almost 70% sure i heard him say that she can claim he was going for her next nd defended herself or something like that but i mightve just imagined that
Rhys wanted Joe to realise who he is and join forces as murderous masterminds.
But when Joe tried to kill him (by committing suicide)it made Rhys realise that they could never join forces because Joe insists on being ‘good’ so he took over Joe’s body permanently. Which is why he killed Edward(unnecessarily) and framed Nadia (without remorse) right after leaving the hospital . It would also explain why he saw Rhys when he looked at his reflection.
oo i like this take. at first i thought joe and rhys finally joined together but your take makes sense as well
Yessss.
i think it's crazy that Rhys was never really there yet Rhys was telling joe to kill kate's dad & kate's dad wanted Rhys dead that's what had me believing Rhys was real
The show did a nice job in seperating good Joe and evil Joe. Good Joe always appeared to be a victim of circumstances which was why it was somehow easier (for the audience)to connect with him and made him look redeemable (despite the murders). But the true side of Joe is so evil that it's beyond any redemption, especially now that he has embraced his true nature (along with all the resources he has now).
It's good that it ended right there.
Also loved Phoebe's ending. She was just too pure.
I love that season 3 ended with Taylor swift’s exile and season 4 ended with anti hero
Hoping season 5 is going to end with vigilante shxt alongside a badass shot of nadia walking out of jail rn
Or at least i did something bad if joe really has to win everytime
Joe always lets kids go and protect them, by him framing Nadia it tells us that even that small, genuine, caring part of him is gone. S1 was us rationalizing him killing Beck, yes hes a stalker but in the end she cheated on him with Dr Nicky even after everything she and Joe went through. S2 was about even though he believes he does everything for love (the emotion not the character) he couldn't fathom that love thinks the same way about her killing people for Joe. S3 was honestly great for me. He hated love because he saw what he was trying to deny himself. That he kills cuz he can which she accepted. The fact that people love Joe explains why so many people get killed.
this is what i thought too. Every season joe protects a kid/teenager. Nadia is only 19 and because of him she’s locked up for life and traumatized.
I would have expected Joe to follow up on Marianne's death...like an obituary or something. He would have read or watched news of police finding her "body."
She sadly most likely wouldn’t get news coverage considering her race. She even stated so in season 3 when explaining to Joe about what missing white woman syndrome actually is.
We appreciate this breakdown. God bless you.
You ain’t even watch the whole video lmao it just came out a minute ago and the video is 13 minutes long….
@@venommachine1506 I appreciate this breakdown nonetheless
If I were still on Twitter, I would respond to this finale with the GIF of Jesse Pinkman screaming, "He can't keep getting away with it!"
the only thing i dont understand is how joe was able to get the box of ryhs’s souvenirs into nadia’s flat when it seemed like she had just left joe’s flat a few moments before
I was wondering the same thing and couldn't find an answer yet
He just told her what was going to happen, a sneak peek of what he's up to with her so she knows she's fucked
Can someone explain how Kate's dad wanted Rhys dead if Rhys is imaginary
@@briano9397 Kates dad wanted the REAL Rhys dead, the one that Joe killed before he realized that the Rhys he has been talking to wasn’t real
@@limwewa5797 but Kate's dad gave Joe the address to find the Rhys he wanted dead, that ended up being the imaginary one. Kate's dad gave him the address to the fake Rhys ?
Rhys was actually apart of Joe all along, what a crazy twist ... dissociative identity disorder i'm guessing
I kind of predicted it since they only intreact in private
@@prachikalkar2493 especially the part when Rhys said "I smell a rat". It was very unrealistic and gave it away.
@@fightnight14 Or the fact he had an easier time finding who Joe was then a actual hired Hitman😂
@@prachikalkar2493it wasn’t only in private but people just thought he was high or talking to himself.
It make me think of fight club,thé machinist or american psycho.
Season 5 should go the “heavy rain” game route, introduce a second main character like a detective or FBI agent that takes down Joel once in for all. Season 5 could take place several years later, where in the UK, society fears of this “jack the ripper” like serial killer. Joe has now killed so many people throughout the years because he enjoys it. But he is untouchable because he is married to Kate, who has money and power. Joe has embraced who he really is, a serial killer who enjoys killing. This season should bring an end to joe once in for all. Could make for some great television.
That's a great idea, although I had really hoped that he died in the river. This could be a could end to the series
that impossible though, he has monopoly over everything unless the government or fbi crack down on him
Omd I love heavy rain
I don’t know what I was thinking. I knew Joe got this whole company thing, but I forgot he’d be allowed to access prisons too I was just thinking Nadia was being quiet because she thought nobody would believe her but it’s because Joe could do extra bad things to her and not get caught that is so unfair omg
I don’t think so,
If anything I see him paying her commissary money.
He saw her as some protege and he still acted like a proud mentor teaching her.
Im still stunned how joe still hasent been caught for the bottle of piss he left 🤣
i thought peaches house got burnt down?
Piss doesn’t have DNA, that’s why.
@@pjaybasmaignee lol
@@pjaybasmaignee The blood in that piss does though
@@Zero-qe1ke it’s true 🤷🏾♂️
How a murderer keeps getting lucky and rinse and repeat
There are serial killers for this reason some people do get away with for a long time without getting caught.
@@pueroricanwaifu there are barely any serial killers anymore because murderers are generally caught before they can kill more than one or two people, because of security footage, DNA testing and awareness of the public.
@@dikhed1983 yeah he definitely woulda been caught by now being sloppy af too but it’s a show 😂
to be realistic, he’s plot amor 🤣🤣
@@kayreen6467 it’s funny how every season he admits he’s wrong and accepts judgement but the plots like “I think you can change bro”
Bro Joe is so badass lol I just love how he gets away with everything. Like no matter what you do he's always one 3 steps ahead!!
That was a great ending, like I was impressed, shocked and my mouth was on the floor for the last 20min 👌🏾 how everything came together, I can’t believe I’m rooting for this man still
My dude Joe stay coming out strong 💀 I’m glad they didn’t let Nadia and her punk ass bf take him down.
Lol facts I must say I'm loving villains being the mc in movies these days
Heroes are way too overrated
Fax😂
Facts
Nadia and bae were dumb AF
lol right? Tf is wrong with all the other bs people in the comments that are rooting for his downfall??
I would have liked it better for the plot if Joe's suicide attempt had actually been successful. The scene with him and the hallucinated Rhys on the bridge, their entire conversation touched me very much. Joe realizing all the terrible things he has done, but not managing to change and therefore committing suicide fits very well into the story and the show would have had a tragic but coherent ending. But then he is saved and you think he has changed, but then he has not. He murders Eddie and frames Nadia for it, although Kate, as his new girlfriend, could have easily gotten rid of the evidence Nadia found in Joe's apartment, just as she restored Joe's identity through her father's contacts and a lot of money. It makes no sense that Joe admits to his atrocities and even wants to commit suicide to stop them for good but then continues murdering. But killing Joe would have meant that the fourth season would be the last and since the show is still pretty successful the producers probably want to release a fifth season so they let Joe live.
Even though I definitely think that ending would have been a good fit, I think it will be even better if he gets what's coming to him and pays for his actions. I think maybe surviving changed his thought process and with Kate accepting him maybe he figured he can finally accept it and it's not such a big deal. S5 is in talks so I'm hoping it'll be a good time to see some real punshiment finally for him
@@nicoleherman1315 I don’t think the show will end with Joe getting what he deserves, that kind of happy end doesn’t fit the show.
Doesn't make sense. I agree
Man he made so many people suffer in the series,i just want him to get killed by someone else,suicide Is a sort of escape from all the consequences,and that finale would have left me disappointed,he needs to get what he deserves,the Marienne and the Bird story part Is a really good piece of writing with a lot of raw emotions,i loved It and made me want Joe to die more
Seeing Joe fully accepted his killer self that he hated and constantly shunned away is disturbingly satisfying. This is like some kind of fucked up healing process where you are at peace with who u are and ur flaws, only that u are a mastermind serial killer 😀
finally an explanation on why incomprehensibly Joe didn't suspect and investigate Rhys at all (unlike the rest of the band) during the first half of the season. I was afraid it was a fatal plot hole for this serie
I just got into this show recently and just finished the 4th season. Joe obviously needs years of therapy. Many, many years. He also doesn’t know when to quit while he’s ahead. He survived a suicide attempt and ended up with this super rich girlfriend who is totally into him. Yet, I read that in the final season he gets yet another love interest. Joe convinces himself each time that he will reform for the sake of whatever relationship he is in, but always manages to stray. But it comes as no surprise. A wolf may wear sheep’s clothing. But he is still a wolf.
If everyone thinks Edward was the killer and Nadia found out, wouldn’t they think she killed him in self defense? Why is she in prison?
It’s more vigilante than self defense. It’s a rigorous killing because she allegedly hunted Eddie out to stop him.
That’s illegal even though the motives are good.
Dumb 🤡
i fucking hate joe sm omfgggrheuwiqbebebxubwnwjeiwjwjebd THE WAY HE DID NADIA HAD ME CRYING FOR REAL
My season 5 theory is that Joe hasn’t ‘finally accepted his dark side’. He’s like a pendulum swinging back and forth constantly out of balance. The brighter his light side shines the darker a shadow it casts. So I think he will have a mental passenger following him around all season and it will be his ‘good’ side this time. Foes from the past will return to try and sabotage him and he’ll realise he was blacking out in season 5 and leaving clues for them that led to his own downfall. His entire schtick is self sabotage. I’m hoping Love will play his ‘good’ mental passenger and spend all season tearing down Kate and pointing out that she’s a bad person (oh, it’s fine when she does it, but you couldn’t love me when I killed someone). They already set Love up as being a passenger inside of his head that is opposed to his darker nature.
Then the biggest cliff hanger at the end would be him in court facing trial for his crimes, he looks out at the stands and sees Love sitting in the courtroom staring at him. He thinks it’s still her in his head, but then she stands up, starts interacting with people (excuse me, thank you etc) and realises that wasn’t in his head and Love actually survived and came to his trial, she smiles, winks and walks out.
In my head-canon this would be the perfect way for the show to end.
That would be just perfect
Well done! I'd love this. 🤩
Why do you think Love would still be alive?
@@ren9143 It’s not that I think she is. More the classic TV and movie trope that if you don’t physically see the body - assume they’re not actually dead. The creators have the freedom to bring her back alive if they wanted to.
Also why couldn’t she be alive? It’s funny fans of this show are fine with the ridiculous amount of plot armor they give Joe over four seasons, but them bringing back Love somehow is too ridiculous? Really?
Hell simple, when she poisoned the knife handle, and knowing Joe’s past, she could have also had an antidote that she took when she left the room to attend to Henry. I mean hell she researched and worked with the poison and plants to make sure the dosage was right. Her and Joe are one and the same, just differences in impulse control. But she could and did match his wits throughout the two seasons she was in.
Joe's good side died when he jumped from the bridge and now fully absorbed by his dark serial killer side...that was scary as hell...
another major issue for Joe in season 5 will be that: since Joe has reintegrated his obsessive and killing side "Rhys" and so, will have the urge to kill in the future and won't be able to repress it unless he dissociates again, and since Kate has come to terms with his past as a killer, but only because Joe told him it was over, that he was like another person (which Kate sees as similar to his own past, working for his father) and Kate told Joe that from now they will "keep each other up", how will "full Joe" deal with his murderous side in the present? He'll probably have to hide it from Kate like he did with his previous love interests...unless Kate turns out to be like Quinn and okay with it (but this time, since Joe accepted himself, he may accept that Kate is as deranged as him)

How is Joe a billionaire if they’re not married? Also is the interviewer the guy from anavran?
He has access to a billion dollar fortune through her girlfriend. It’s not an official billionaire status
he looked exactly like the guy from anavrin
Yes! I thought I recognised him from somewhere.
I thought that was the guy from Anavrin too!
exactly, he actually looked like the guy who worked in Anavrin.
The ending of Season 4 of You was really horrifying . Joe embraced his dark side and got away with it again . This season was phenomenal and eerie .
I felt so sorry for Nadia who got framed and i am hoping she , Marianne and Ellie will get justice at some point. I can’t wait for Season 5 and what will be next .
lol 🤡
Damn Joe was cold with what he did to Nadia...but it was a smart plan that she came up with with Marianne who got to go home to her daughter without Joe knowing that she was still alive. xD but this is so bad now that Joe has this security behind him, season 5 is going to be some type of horrific killing field. He gets complacent about himself doing bad things and then when his "love" turns around and forgives him for the abridged version of the truth then he gets confident and calm about the bad things that he does. I thought Joe was going to get psychiatric help after finding out that his Rhys was an illusion/the dark parts of him. But now I'm wondering if old friends or enemies will come for him since he's back to being Joe once more.
Same I thought he would get on schizophrenic drugs to deal with the split personality and it would end on a more hopeful note that Kate would keep him accountable on the right path lol
I'm just glad Pheobe and Marienne are doing well
Did any one notice how Joe used his teeth to cut the tape that suffocated Kates dad. That’s not going to come back to haunt him.
This is my 3rd comment in this video lol. But when Nadia said Joe's biggest flaw is being obsessive and not letting things go, it was kind also her own flaw. When Marianne told her there is no way fighting against Joe, but Nadia despite saving Marianne couldn't let things go and that's what got her killed
Did anyone else notice that the journalist at the end of season 4 is the same guy who worked at Love's family store in season 2 (calvin)? I just looked him up on IMDB, it's the same guy.
yes! i’ve also realised that. i think he was the one who interviews joe for job
YES!!!!!!! I was wondering if he got famous after Joe came back in the spot light sorta like Sherry and Cary's TED talk. Seems like he capitalized off being a Quinn employee and Joe's friend from Madrea Linda.
I really want Ellie to come back and make a mess out of Joe, helped by Nadia and the therapist of the first season
„We are perfect for each other“ hits even harder now…
The one thing I would have loved to see this season is joe go down for his crimes. Imagine if he got caught during the time of him not knowing about his split personalities. Him professing and trying to prove it wasn’t him waiting trial, the trial arrives and they play back all the crimes and evidence to him. Him realising then he is mad.
That would have been more satisfying since dissociative identity disorder as a plot point is no longer original since we've all seen "Fight Club".
hopefully in season 5
People like you are so lame
@@Cortez0 why do you say that??
i saw joe like this from season 2, when ellie had to be without her sister even in the first season when he was against peach. the show is made so even if you think joe is hypocritical and making excuses, you can still watch it bc of how love is his karma. it’s so realistic that love was his match but once he realized they were the same he can’t confront himself so it evolves into him detaching from his personality, doing all this on autopilot..at a certain point he goes from creepy to just his soul is not even there
The ending didn't make sense. After so many incidents of unintended deaths, Joe FINALLY realizes that to prevent any more unintended deaths he had to commit suicide. And he FOLLOWS through, but of course in keeping with the show's consistent meta-level humor, it turns out that what he intends (suicide in this case) is not what happened. BUT the fact that he gave a sincere attempt at suicide shows that he *had* turned a new leaf! So much so that he was ready to let Kate turn him in. But Kate made him an offer that was just too emotionally enticing for him to turn down: a chance at love *and* not living a lie *and* a plausible plan to prevent future unintended deaths (she would try to keep him good; he'd do the same for her). So he accepted the offer.
BUT THAT'S when his character inexplicably becomes evil for no good reason. Instead of trying to be good (but perhaps occasionally slipping and hopefully she being there to course-correct him), he just becomes full-on evil, DESTROYING all the emotional stakes and giant epiphany that lead up to him attempting suicide in the first place. What a bunch of baloney.
@@Ale-xv1un I got you bro
There is very good reasoning for this. If you want I can explain this.
It does make sense, Joe decided that being “good” doesn’t last well for him, so he simply embraces who he really is this whole time: a monster.
@@Ryan-gc3sd Suicide attempt = life isn't worth living if good isn't possible. Kate offering to keep him good = good is possible = life is worth living
@@keshi5541 Please explain!
I'd like to believe there will be a season 5 set in NewYork where the show will end with Joe getting his poetic justice....you things coming full circle.
My biggest gripe was the lack of chemistry between Kate and Joe :\ Otherwise, the 2nd part blew my mind :)
I really didn’t like the plot twist that Joe was the Eat the Rich Killer and that he was hallucinating the whole time. In past seasons, they’ve had times where something messed with Joe’s lucidness, like when he hits his head in a car accident in season 1 or when he’s on drugs in season 2. There was nothing to explain why he would be having such real hallucinations for such a long time.
It felt like a cop-out. It’s the same dissatisfying feeling of experiencing a whole story and then being told at the end, “it was all a dream.” And it also doesn’t even make Joe seem fully responsible because he wasn’t in control of his own actions.
I see this happen a lot with tv shows when they become more plot driven instead of character driven. They have the characters doing things that are out of character for the sake of the plot. Like someone else said, why would they have Joe put in so much effort to change and be better (even to the point he was willing to commit suicide) just to have him go back to being killer Joe? They did it because the writers wanted him to be the main villain, but it didn’t make sense in relation to his character and who he was trying to be.
Season 5 is gonna be interesting. My prediction is that since he's back in New York, theres only 1 person still there from Season 1 that is on to Joe and that is Peach's investigator, also there is still the jar of urine he left at her house when he killed her so my prediction is that Joe is gonna get hunted by this guy
Haha... "season 5"
@@triple-d2640 why don't you think there's a season 5? The director did say he does not mind following Joe Goldberg's life for another 3+ seasons
Bruh the urine is over with forget about it😂
Don’t forget about Love Quinn’s family
@@KlaudiaShaefferr there is no family lmao. The mother is in rehab and the father is gone away. The mother even hinted to Joe to kill Love before she hurts him or Henry so yeah.
I wonder if he truly told EVERYTHING to Kate. If she really knows absolutely everything and yet still chooses to be with him then she is just as bad as him. I mean, it didn't really make sense to me that she was beating herself up over the whole causing children to die of cancer thing. She HATED herself for it and yet she heard how Joe killed ALL those people and didn't feel deterred at all? Like maybe he told her the same thing he told everyone else, that he killed Love because she was mentally ill and she tried to kill him. And she probably thinks he killed her dad because her dad threatened him or something. I don't know how he would have twisted the other murders in his favor. Unless he maybe left out some of the murders and she doesn't know of all of them? If he told her straight up I locked up two women in a cage and held them there for long periods of time before killing them, and I also stalked them and killed anyone who got in my way and she ignored all that... She is also awful. I mean over all 4 seasons he has killed 16 people total. If the guy I liked confessed that to me, I don't care what memories we had together and what sweet words we shared, I would be appalled. I would have called the police and reported him. Overall I loved this season. A lot of plot twists I didn't see coming. I just wonder what Kate's personality is truly. Is she really that wicked that she could cover for Joe like that? They never showed Joe explaining his story to her so we don't know what exactly he told her. I guess that's up to us to imagine.
I’ll never understand how Mr Lockwood could’ve known Joe‘s real name and history.
The way this ended was very “ball’s in your court, Nadia”. I thought Joe would finally die but no. Too easy. I would love to see the next season be from Nadia’s perspective or even his son’s. They come together to end Joe. Does not make any sense to have this psychopath just carry on and doesnt send a good message either. I’d note Marienne too but i would assume her priority is staying invisible from now on to raise her daughter
I enjoyed this but I was really hoping Ellie Alves would have shown up again. Jenna Ortega has said that she wants to come back and play her character again
She was as annoying as nadia. Maybe more so
@Gabriel People found Nadia annoying? I loved her
@Gabriel Fair. I disagree but I can see how it can come out that way.
And as we predict Rhys is a imagination and Joe has Split personality!
Perfect ending to You season 4 part 2. Honestly, the way they ended it is actually how they should end the show. It’s the literally the perfect ending to it all. I don’t think they should make a season 5 and drag it on.
I feel like they should make a S5. there is so many people that is still out there in the "You" universe that still knows about Joe
People want to see Joe dead and paying for his actions
What Joe did to Nadia was fucking cold man 😮
Nah she deserves it
@@kyleball8396 fuck around and find out I guess
What about Henry? Surely there must be some kind of hearing now that his ‘dead’ dad has been found alive and well?
he is 1-3 yeara old
@@prettiestpilot yes but who’s taking care of him now? Joe or the couple that adopted him?
@@jess.p the couple who adopted him.
I feel like Marianne for sure will be back next season & help Nadia once she sees she’s in prison. Maybe characters from other seasons will come back once they see the news that Joe is alive & finally stop him
Lol k 🤡
I would love a season 5 , years in the future, with either Paco or Joe's son worked into the story, imagine Paco or his son being the reason he gets taken down once and for all
I can see that happening are joe son becomes the main mc
So, basically the final season of dexter? 😑
look my real question is how how he managed to build and also get rid of the cage so quickly? what the heck? there must be footage of him buying pieces for it and people MUST have seen him carry this shit down there, like it would have taken 2 seconds for the police to gather evidence
I just love how the cage is a constant companion forever and ever!
I feel like the twist would be Joe is locked in a cage. In his mind, while his evil side is in control thinking that he's been integrated and Joe will become his ghost/Jiminy cricket.
That's a cool visual.
Possible plot lines for seson 5:
1- Lockwood family conflict: Kate have 6 brothers, and they could fight her over the henritance.
2- Love's family: Season 4 started with the hired killer of the Quinn family letting Joe go, so they pretty much hate him.
3- Joe trying to have his son back.
4- Nadia, Marienne and others teaming up to f*ck up Joe: Joe have already killed so many, and have had unfairly imprisoned at least 2 people: Beck's doctor and Dawn. So he is a man of many enemies. A lawyer, specially a female one, representing those people, could be very interesting.
If we could also get another villainous charcater that threatens henrys life? That'll be good
The part 2 reminded me of fight club with Joe having an alter ego and it was soo good
I wonder if they are going to bring over Henry? I felt that that wasn’t concluded at all
@@yukijames1321 I agree with you, to me at least although joe did right by leaving him with a loving couple who won’t experience a childhood like both joe and Love, but it feels like he’s just abandoned him to now start a new life with Kate if you get my drift? But I agree with you about it be concluded
in the show at the very end of the last episode, he has a line where he says that the general consensus was that he made the right choice to hand off henry to those neighbors because he’s in better hands. basically joe got away with everything as usual.
@@Mia-fp9tr Yeah that's the point, it's meant to reflect what Joe's mother did to him by abandoning him and starting a new life
@@Mia-fp9tr It could be but there’s still Love’s father who knows Joe’s still alive . I found it strange he hasn’t found Henry with all his money. At least he would have a nanny raising his grandson and he definitely wouldn’t see him adopted to strangers.
Since Joe abandoned Henry Love’s dad has a custody claim on the baby and not the adopted parents.
@@Collectibles49 I love your thought process but here's a question. Isn't Kate's dad or now Kate herself is more powerful than Love's dad? And I would think that kate would be in the process of bring Henry over to London or at least making sure that the couple (I forgot their names in season 3) would either be moved to somewhere safe or at least be sent money to continue to take care of henry. But I do love what you said!