Teaching a parakeet to perch on your hand

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  • @nicoledonaghy7267
    @nicoledonaghy7267 8 років тому +95

    My budgies actually ate out of my hand the first day I got them! They're getting more use to me everyday. Thank you!!!!!!

  • @memekata8592
    @memekata8592 3 роки тому +21

    My budgie just sat on my finger so now I’m binge watching these lol!

  • @PsycloneTread
    @PsycloneTread 6 років тому +81

    We are now eating from the hand safely, progressing well. a little scared of my finger yet, but we'll get there!

  • @bellaearp5913
    @bellaearp5913 4 роки тому +34

    I was just training my bird and now he’s shaperning his beack

    • @evie3721
      @evie3721 2 роки тому

      It is called beak grinding it means he likes u and feels comfortable around u

  • @jaimeperez2196
    @jaimeperez2196 8 років тому +422

    I got my parakeet from a pet store and when I took him out of the box he jumped on my finger

    • @ParrotPerch
      @ParrotPerch  8 років тому +60

      +Jaime Perez Wow, that's pretty cool. Hopefully you will have an easier time of taming your bird, if it is ok with being so close to you already.

    • @razorrazor353
      @razorrazor353 8 років тому +13

      That's so cool

    • @empyreusnova8658
      @empyreusnova8658 8 років тому +94

      He was probably owned prior to you getting him and is already friendly towards humans. That or he's accepted fate and decided to make you it's master lol

    • @tonyonic9138
      @tonyonic9138 7 років тому +29

      Same thing with my hamster, you usually need to tame hamsters. My hamster didnt even bite anyone in her entire lifetime ( My hamster died of a tumor, I will never forget hammy the hamster ). She let you pick her up, didnt matter who you were. The one I dont understand is when we adopted her, she had a small hole in her ear. It makes me wonder about her past. My cat didnt even bother her, they were best buds. I went to the pet store to check out some birds to adopt, and I saw 2 parakeets playing with eachother, I might get them so that way when im out at school, they have eachother to play with :].

    • @shrubmongeau6499
      @shrubmongeau6499 7 років тому +22

      Jaime Perez lol I got mine from Petsmart and left him in the cage for 3 days so that he could get comfy and feel safe 4th day pet him through the cage, let him out of the cage and let him get used to the house 5th day he let me hold him and now always want to be with me! Amazing ✨

  • @teddymatuz4044
    @teddymatuz4044 5 років тому +9

    I just love how you talk with confidence and like you are positive about the things you say👏🏻❤️

  • @bluehoodieproductions1634
    @bluehoodieproductions1634 3 роки тому +7

    I’ve had mine for a day, he started chirping and dancing in his cage.

  • @boywithbutter
    @boywithbutter 4 роки тому +4

    I got my parakeet from a small business because it was cheaper and my friend said that it was great for birds and ill try this technique soon.

  • @sukhjaapjalaf4058
    @sukhjaapjalaf4058 6 років тому +5

    Wow thank you so much my budgies are now stepping up on my hand! Peeling the Milliet off was a great idea.

  • @Dptrhmn
    @Dptrhmn 8 років тому +245

    My bird is extremely scared of everyone

  • @YIPPPPEEEEEEEEEE
    @YIPPPPEEEEEEEEEE 4 роки тому +4

    Both of my budgies were scared when I first got them but now they are both a bit tamed. Their names are Mossy and Skye.

    • @Kamiiexx
      @Kamiiexx 4 роки тому +2

      Jonaline Adathan Their names is so beautiful😁 my budgie was also scared when I first got him, but he very quickly started to become kind of time too😎

    • @YIPPPPEEEEEEEEEE
      @YIPPPPEEEEEEEEEE 4 роки тому +1

      @@Kamiiexx 😊

    • @cloudy_claude
      @cloudy_claude 4 роки тому +1

      Did you tame them in the same cage or separated?

    • @bcgaming2581
      @bcgaming2581 3 роки тому +1

      Addy Rose I have a parakeet named skye too 😃

    • @YIPPPPEEEEEEEEEE
      @YIPPPPEEEEEEEEEE 3 роки тому +1

      @@bcgaming2581 cool!

  • @notjaysday
    @notjaysday 6 років тому +2

    I know these videos are a few years old, but they are still great! You do a very good job of explaining clearly, so children can watch and understand too. Thank you!

  • @WolfMan01
    @WolfMan01 9 років тому +4

    I don't have a parakeet but do have a baby 2-3 month old parrotlet and this actually worked. Had her for a week and she is used to my hand now : 3 Thank you on the technique! : )

    • @ParrotPerch
      @ParrotPerch  9 років тому +1

      WolfMan01 Well wonderful! Glad I could help, and by the way, I love parrotlets...they are super cute!

  • @jasminedelatorre5849
    @jasminedelatorre5849 5 років тому

    i got 2 new parakeets yesterday and they’ve done extremely well, but don’t worry i’ve been very careful to not push them too far or far at all but i basically followed what she did in the video throughout the day and i got my parakeet to be on my finger and i’m super happy & excited. thank you!!

  • @keppty
    @keppty 5 років тому +13

    My bird rushes to me when I walk into the room

  • @rafa7279
    @rafa7279 7 років тому +45

    My parakeet is a rescue. My dad found him a couple of years back so we don't know his age or anything like that. Years past that we've been with him but he's still VERY scared of humans. He's closer to me and my dad (Mostly my father) and will sometimes come out but it's rare. He pecks a lot and gets scared when anything comes near him but I don't blame him. This was the first year I tried putting my entire hand inside of his cage so yeah. I try to take him out on my own but I'm scared to put my finger near him since he bites a lot. I don't really know what to do.. I feel AWFUL for him because he's been cooped up in a cage for so long without much attention except for "Hello, Good Morning, I love you".. I was pretty young back then so I didn't do much. I want to make it up to him but so far, he only comes out when my dad is the one trying to get him out. He also doesn't have a variety of food choices like most parakeets do. He only eats seeds. I tried getting him to eat peaches but nothing. And another thing, I don't know much about parakeets so I don't know if mine is in good condition.. He seems fine but I don't want to take any risks. I really need help.

    • @jomanaljasem1522
      @jomanaljasem1522 6 років тому +5

      I'm Rafaela I don't know what is wrong either but take him to the vet and make sure everything is good with him , try putting some fruit and veggies in his cage , give him some attention , buy him toys , get him a cuttlebone , try your best helping him , he might not be feeling great

    • @RandomPerson-ny4yq
      @RandomPerson-ny4yq 6 років тому +2

      They tend to like lettuce from what I have heard. Plus, that is the only treat I can use on one of my budgies, the other one I just got so I don't know what it likes yet.

    • @mohammedzahir2955
      @mohammedzahir2955 6 років тому +1

      rafa try to mix pellets crush them into food and water mushy mix. Should be fine.

    • @anosjc
      @anosjc 5 років тому +1

      Get him a friend!

    • @emilylovell7384
      @emilylovell7384 3 роки тому +1

      Parakeets are not trying to bite you they will bite a little but you can’t jump or move your hand act like it doesn’t hurt and it will stop biting. The reason why it’s nibbling on your hand is to check if you are weak or the bird may nibble to see if you aren’t scared of the bird and it’s bite doesn’t hurt you. The bite will hurt but don’t say “ow” and don’t move your hand. Your budgie will be super tame and not bite as much!💞

  • @dakotapratschner2822
    @dakotapratschner2822 9 років тому +4

    You and your birds are so pretty!! Thanks for the info!!

  • @genocidejess
    @genocidejess 6 років тому +4

    I just tried the spray millet and holding it opposite of them with my fingers, and Chiyo (my male) just hopped onto my finger/hand and ate. Thank you very much for the advice!!

  • @poisonsans2023
    @poisonsans2023 5 років тому +2

    thank you i just got stormy a week ago she is so scared but loves when i pet her wings and tail she stepped up for the first time im so happy

    • @ParrotPerch
      @ParrotPerch  5 років тому +1

      Sounds like you are doing a great job with her. Keep it up!

    • @poisonsans2023
      @poisonsans2023 5 років тому +1

      The Parakeet Perch thanks i will

  • @SailorSam41
    @SailorSam41 6 років тому +1

    Lady you radiate such kindness, in each video I find I'm looking more at YOU than the bird. Thank you for your excellent instructions. I am making progress with "Jack" I just have to remember it has to be at his pace, not mine. And you are SO pretty - I have to discipline myself to pay more attention to the lesson and less to the teacher. ( : { )

  • @grace_littlefield1681
    @grace_littlefield1681 6 років тому

    you are so great at explaining and you really go step by step to make sure this video is helpful! thank you!!!!!!!!!!

  • @lostnfound828
    @lostnfound828 8 років тому

    My daughter is getting me a parakeet this week! I haven't had one in decades. Now that I am retired I will be able to spend so much more time training and playing. My bird will be so spoiled:) I really enjoy watching your videos. You are delightful and your birds are both so pretty. Thanks for sharing!

  • @hannahf5200
    @hannahf5200 5 років тому +1

    This worked on the first try with one of my birds! Thank you!

  • @sorryimgavin9767
    @sorryimgavin9767 10 років тому +1

    Your such a big help I just got a female parakeet 2 days ago she is already really nice and sweet. I was surprised how nice she is she doesn't bite she gives kisses and a lot of other stuff she learns really fast

    • @ParrotPerch
      @ParrotPerch  10 років тому +1

      Well thank you so much, and it's nice to hear you have such a sweet Budgie. Sounds like you are doing a great job as her owner to make her feel comfortable and loved!

  • @moraymcb.6428
    @moraymcb.6428 7 років тому

    This video is very helpful! Thank you so much for posting this!

  • @spooky8037
    @spooky8037 4 роки тому +1

    I just got a fancy parakeet today, and I would like to train her. I have her a big cage, some toys, and food. When we put her in the cage she seemed a bit nervous and scared, i'm trying my best to keep her comforted and happy. I found out that it takes about 2 weeks to make them comfortable at their new home. So maybe after 2 weeks I should try this.

  • @animalfacts1013
    @animalfacts1013 5 років тому +2

    Thank you I’ll definitely need to try this!

  • @rebeccakilburn9227
    @rebeccakilburn9227 7 років тому +1

    Thank You soooooo much, this worked wonders for my skittish keets. I couldn't be happier

  • @MrKmbutt
    @MrKmbutt 9 років тому +64

    Whoever disliked this is stupid because it really helps!!!!!!

  • @ButterMilk2246
    @ButterMilk2246 4 роки тому +27

    My bird will eat things out of my hand but still won’t perch on me

  • @betsylane4774
    @betsylane4774 9 років тому +5

    Thanks for all of your helpful videos. I particularly liked this one, because of the detailed shots of how you hold the millet in your hand while teaching the budgies to perch on your fingers on the same hand. I adopted 2 budgies 2 weeks ago (both male, we think, but they are only about 4 months old, so. we're not sure). They had been worked with for a month (after being purchased from a pet store) by the previous/original owner, then spent a month in a bird rescue, where they didn't get too much attention due to there being so many birds there. Then I adopted them. Anyway--one thing that would really help me is having some sense of how long the process took you to get your birds from "naturally flighty" to "perching happily." I realize every animal is different and they have their own timelines, and I respect that (I train wary dogs for a living using only positive methods). But--just in rough terms--does it take days? weeks? months?? Thanks again!

  • @kerrymccarthy4226
    @kerrymccarthy4226 5 років тому

    Thanks for the tips, I'll try them. Was given 2 Parakeets and just learning to care for them, they are still very shy, will be patient !!

  • @33sandrapope
    @33sandrapope 5 років тому

    Thanks for your videos ..I’m new at having birds love your videos

  • @carolinehockey6943
    @carolinehockey6943 6 років тому

    you are great i like to and hear you when i am work keep up the good work

  • @MaplexxTreez
    @MaplexxTreez 4 роки тому

    I got my pet Budgie today, she is blue so i named her Jewel (inspired from the movie Rio) she is so sweet and jumps on my hand everytime I have it out and in her presence. I got her as an early bday gift since my bday is July 6... my grandpa got it for me. Thanks gpa!

  • @imanicielmanalili9402
    @imanicielmanalili9402 8 років тому +1

    love this vid makes me feel like a parakeet dad

  • @Bred392
    @Bred392 4 роки тому

    2020 and I just got a budgie and you helped a lot 🥺

  • @xavierluis3374
    @xavierluis3374 Рік тому

    great vid ! even 9yrs later this is still helpful lol

  • @ewatts25
    @ewatts25 8 років тому

    Thanks for the tips!

  • @davidwright-martin6419
    @davidwright-martin6419 Рік тому

    Thanks for the help. I'm going to try this.

  • @big____rich4560
    @big____rich4560 3 роки тому

    Great video! Thanks

  • @aydaminasian3729
    @aydaminasian3729 8 років тому +95

    My bird is able to perch on my hand only with millet, but it won't come out of the cage! Please help me!

    • @lifeofhunnythecockatiel858
      @lifeofhunnythecockatiel858 8 років тому +5

      Buy him a budgie friend they will always come out if theyre out with a friend

    • @aydaminasian3729
      @aydaminasian3729 8 років тому +7

      Budgie Madness I have 3 budgies already..

    • @lifeofhunnythecockatiel858
      @lifeofhunnythecockatiel858 8 років тому +3

      +alfred tahmasian ohh ok mine wasnt very tame but then i bought him a budgie friend and ne became really tame

    • @aydaminasian3729
      @aydaminasian3729 8 років тому +1

      Budgie Madness oh ._.

    • @johny1220
      @johny1220 8 років тому +5

      Show him whose boss >:)

  • @MrRomeoStarr
    @MrRomeoStarr 9 років тому

    Awesome work you put in with ur lovely birds. I'm trying to teach our female Albino keet like u have.. She's very consistent at listening.

  • @phelopatirbeshay3855
    @phelopatirbeshay3855 3 роки тому

    OMG OMG THANK YOU SO MUCH THIS HELPED ME SO MUCH MY PARAKEET DIDNT WANNA GO ON MY HAND BEFORE THIS BUT NOW SHE WILL PUT ONE OF HER FEET ON ME THANK YOU SO MUCH!!! :D

  • @gellE291
    @gellE291 7 років тому

    i recently got a parakeet, i'd say 3 or 4 days ago and she is getting used to me pretty fast. Her name is angel she is white and a baby so right now is pry the best time to do this while they are young so when she grows old she is already used to me.... This video helped a lot so thank you, your budgies are very cute :3

    • @violetshelly
      @violetshelly 2 роки тому

      I GOT A BIRD NAMED ANGEL AND AHES WHITE AS WELL

  • @kellyg5997
    @kellyg5997 3 роки тому

    Thanks for the video.

  • @TheNoobGuy757
    @TheNoobGuy757 3 роки тому

    This helped so much thank you

  • @kawaiipuppy5289
    @kawaiipuppy5289 8 років тому +1

    Thank u ever so much!U really help me out a lot!

  • @vit4ls
    @vit4ls 4 роки тому +1

    Thank you! This is my 2nd day of having my parakeet! Im trying to train him to go on my finger and try to talk

  • @legendarygamez6937
    @legendarygamez6937 5 років тому

    It helped me so much. I didn't know where to place my hand at First but this video taught me

  • @sypherregetton5367
    @sypherregetton5367 5 років тому

    Thanks so helpful!

  • @yinketty
    @yinketty 5 років тому +3

    I got a budgie from a shelter and because of how she was previously treated, she was really scared when she sees me.
    Now she is really used to people

  • @gainingluvandhigherknowled6389
    @gainingluvandhigherknowled6389 2 роки тому

    Hey thanks so much gonna be perching like a pro!😄💯

  • @lololy323
    @lololy323 7 років тому

    This helped me with my parakeet perch

  • @diqbolicql
    @diqbolicql 5 років тому +2

    I originally wanted to get one bird. But I saw that bird cuddling up with her “boyfriend” and I just couldn’t separate them. So I got two. I got them two days ago, and they’re already somewhat adapting. I hope for the best for them and all your bird stop! I’ll keep you guys updated.

    • @killme943
      @killme943 Рік тому +1

      Its been 3 years. How did it go?

  • @gr8teagazr122
    @gr8teagazr122 6 років тому

    Mine is on her way to me as I type this. Her suite is ready, and I can hardly wait!

  • @manvirbenipal6174
    @manvirbenipal6174 10 років тому +3

    this really helped me

    • @ParrotPerch
      @ParrotPerch  10 років тому

      Great! I am glad to hear that, and thanks for the comment!

  • @owen6979
    @owen6979 6 років тому +1

    she is THE jazzy bird tamer

  • @arcadegamerz_1
    @arcadegamerz_1 5 років тому

    For a first vid this is well edited

  • @bethfaith7539
    @bethfaith7539 2 роки тому

    i put my hand in her cage today and she stepped onto it we’ve had her for about 4 days now and slowly but surely she’s stepped on our hand

  • @owen6979
    @owen6979 6 років тому +1

    shes like the jazzy bird tamer

  • @OPoioMad
    @OPoioMad 4 роки тому

    Good job thanks for help

  • @yoursharley_quinnedits5571
    @yoursharley_quinnedits5571 5 років тому

    Your birds are sooooo cute😘😚

  • @hailhydra9184
    @hailhydra9184 4 роки тому

    thank you that is a very good explaing good!

  • @flamingbridges1649
    @flamingbridges1649 4 роки тому

    I've had my budgie rocko 2 days. he's quite good with me putting my hand in the cage. he doesn't fly away but he sometimes leans back a bit. he did put one foot on my finger for the first time today.

  • @EricDavis-hh3vf
    @EricDavis-hh3vf 6 років тому +1

    thx that helped a lot

  • @yasminhij3417
    @yasminhij3417 5 років тому

    Thank you so much for this video I help me so much with my

  • @garrettrussler9931
    @garrettrussler9931 3 роки тому

    Got mine a little over a week ago and they already perch !

  • @softblvsh9067
    @softblvsh9067 4 роки тому

    I have a ladder in their cage so I the way I got them used to my hand was to have my hand at the first step of the ladder then when comfortable move your hand up the ladder. Make sure to give them a treat (millet) to tell them they are doing good! if they can't eat the millet because they are too scared or they don't want it, don't worry just try another time! Once you've finished the ladder move to the closest perch that is higher than the ladder then move closer and closer to them. Then you can start to touch their belly and learn step up! Hope this helped!!

  • @bhaktisartcraft7257
    @bhaktisartcraft7257 3 роки тому

    Thanks for giving this example now my budgies sit on my hand and coming out of cage also thanks a lot🥰

    • @ParrotPerch
      @ParrotPerch  3 роки тому

      That's great to hear. I'm so happy you found this video helpful, and I hope you have time to check out some of my other videos! Best always.

  • @fereshteha8501
    @fereshteha8501 Рік тому

    Very helpful 👏👏👏

  • @fazilatunnessa7774
    @fazilatunnessa7774 6 років тому

    Wow now my parakeet will be used to me thanks

  • @jimmyy1291
    @jimmyy1291 6 років тому

    Thanks now I can watch TV with the budgie on my shoulder 😀😁😃😃😄😅😆

  • @aalaamukaihail4084
    @aalaamukaihail4084 7 років тому +21

    I have a parakeet that looks just like the white one and another parakeet that's green and blue.

  • @thevloggirls1962
    @thevloggirls1962 7 років тому

    you are a legend

  • @coreym8394
    @coreym8394 2 роки тому

    Legend thank u I am gonna give it a try

  • @uppanadam74
    @uppanadam74 9 років тому

    Thanks for such great tips!! Bout to get two baby budgies tomorrow!! Nervous!!

  • @gachatube3666
    @gachatube3666 6 років тому

    their so cute together

  • @ersensuma5865
    @ersensuma5865 7 років тому +1

    thank you

  • @BBGBrey
    @BBGBrey 3 роки тому +2

    I have only had my parakeet for 3 days it came from pet co and yesterday I started petting it’s chest and it perched on my finger

  • @xxanniecatxx8983
    @xxanniecatxx8983 8 років тому

    You don't necessarily need millet. My parakeets learned just by putting your index finger up to it and gently nudging it on the stomach to signal "Hey! It's time to perch on my finger!"

  • @Ghazi_Rizvi1
    @Ghazi_Rizvi1 10 років тому +4

    I love ur vids, subbed already. I just got a pair of budgies a couple days ago, and I can feed them, touch them and have them step up onto a perch (but not my finger). However, I want to take it to the next level, can u make a video on how to get your bird in and out of the cage?

    • @ParrotPerch
      @ParrotPerch  10 років тому

      Thanks for the compliment and for becoming a subbie! I can do that video for you. Please be patient, as I have a few other request pending, but I will get it up ASAP!

    • @Ghazi_Rizvi1
      @Ghazi_Rizvi1 10 років тому +1

      Thank you so much!

    • @ParrotPerch
      @ParrotPerch  10 років тому

      My pleasure!

  • @nicolegarcia2884
    @nicolegarcia2884 7 років тому

    I have three parakeets and I used to be able to let one perch on my finger and the other two were in a separate cage since the new one was a baby, but when we put her in that cage with those ones she didn't let anybody touch her like the other ones.

  • @zussano35
    @zussano35 4 роки тому +1

    The two colors of your birds make the color of my parakeet

  • @Jon-by9bq
    @Jon-by9bq 3 роки тому

    Thanks you

  • @Suki06
    @Suki06 6 років тому +3

    I have the same cage

  • @CameronAlvarado
    @CameronAlvarado 7 років тому

    So I just started watching your videos and I need help I had my parakeets for 2 years and I was afraid to play with them but now I want to train them do I separate them and train them one by one

  • @jagjitjhajj1350
    @jagjitjhajj1350 4 роки тому

    The intro was cute

  • @DuskAegis
    @DuskAegis 9 років тому +2

    Hello! I am thinking about getting a budgie. And I have watched so much of your videos. It helps me understand budgies more and I can't wait to get one! Just one question. If you do feed your budgie fruita/veggies, do you cut them into small pieces or let them eat and pick off of it?

    • @ParrotPerch
      @ParrotPerch  9 років тому

      Carlos Nunez Hi Carlos. I am so glad my videos are helpful to you! I cut most of my fruits/veggies into smaller pieces. Grape bits are particularly popular at the moment (no seeds). I do leave leafy greens, like Kale, all in one piece and my birds will bathe on the moist leaves and then bite pieces off as well. Individual birds can have different preferences, so sometimes you have to experiment and see what works!

  • @Jane03769
    @Jane03769 3 роки тому

    Subbed❤️

  • @anthonycasto4812
    @anthonycasto4812 6 років тому

    Love your video's! helps a beginner like me. where did you get the beautiful wooden perch in the video!? All the stores near me only have wooden dowels. Please and thank you!

  • @paigegreely430
    @paigegreely430 8 років тому

    Hi😊 love your videos! They help me a lot. Even though I don't have a parakeet. But today me, my mom and my brother went to the pet store just to look around. I love birds so Much, I've even rescued some before. We looked at the birds and were immediately attracted to them. And now we are thinking of getting one or two birds/parakeets. My mom doesn't know if she wants parakeets though because of all of the noise but I really like parakeets so id want to get my own. But I'm just afraid of getting a parakeet and it not liking me and never letting me hold it and Come out of the cage. Even after I give it patience and stuff bc I've always wanted a bird and have us be great "friends" and stuff if you know what I mean and have them fly around and be attracted to my family. That's honestly a dream. But how do you think I can pick out the right bird that's maybe already tamed? From a pet store even

  • @maliahyvung1232
    @maliahyvung1232 7 років тому

    Today I got my parakeets on my finger it was awsome

  • @himnishashish3683
    @himnishashish3683 3 роки тому

    I have 2 bedgies one which Really loves me and one who REALLLY hate me (we got both at same store at same time same age too)

  • @devu-in5167
    @devu-in5167 6 років тому

    This is gonna help really well. My friends are getting rid of their three budgies/keets and they are scared of people. Mostly because of screaming and loud noises in the house. I'm gonna try and get them used to my hand and me. I also have a question. Do I have to be very slow when first putting my hand in? Or a speed that I can have them get used to, like the speed you were going at.

  • @quax2765
    @quax2765 6 років тому +2

    Plus, where did you get this cage from, I would love to have this for my 3 budgies

  • @jellyowo5685
    @jellyowo5685 5 років тому

    I got a budgie today and she loves me, she lets me touch her and i already hand feed her!

  • @raec7022
    @raec7022 6 років тому

    I have the exact same bird colors

  • @somerandomdude2718
    @somerandomdude2718 3 роки тому

    I have 4 budgies/parakeets. Mercury, Lime, Kiwi and Sky. Mercury And Lime aren’t that aggresive but Sky and Kiwi bite. I’m tryna get them to perch on my finger, and this is working.

  • @kirsten5723
    @kirsten5723 6 років тому

    I really do enjoy your videos. I don't have a budgie yet, but plan to get one after Christmas. But I have to ask, do you keep them in the same room with the router and modem? I'm a little worried about doing that and would like your thoughts?