ADVANCED FIXTURING | Set Z Fixture Offsets to Numerous Heights… Set All Tools to Single Height
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- Опубліковано 22 гру 2021
- Titan demonstrates how to set many fixture offsets to different Z heights utilizing a 3D Sensor, while zeroing all tools to a single height. This technique is especially good for those that do not have a probe.
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#CNC #Machining #Machinist - Наука та технологія
Something for everyone! We have machinists of all levels following this channel so I figured I would do a quick teaching on setting multiple parts at the same time with a Haimer 3D Sensor. When repeating jobs, this ensures everything stays perfect every time. All tools are zeroed off the 1,2,3 block always.
80-90% of machines don’t actually have probes installed so this works nicely. Just another option.
I myself, always use probes but, used to do it this way.
Have a great day!
Titan
I’m no expert , many years out of CNC but this is how I was taught many years back . Excellent tutorial . Clear , concise and useful .
Thank you for the great tutorial. Despite having renishaw probe tool, I use this method everytime I need to make something precise (tolerance of 0.01mm and below), this way you make sure the difference in tools offsets is minimal. Another thing I think is worth mentioning is checking that you have set all the Z values correctly by bringing the tip of the tool somewhere close and outside the 1,2,3 block or the part stock and using MDI command G0 G(CS number) G43 H(tool number) Z0. to see if the tool will in fact go to the desired height. This double check has saved me a couple of times.
Your info is great and even if its something I have already learned, its good info to change my thinking to always be improving! We just put in CNC Machine #5 this year already! wouldn't have taken this leap without your enthusiasm to make American parts! My Company did 10X what we thought we would this year!
Where does G43 H01 ect fit into this?
@@twinpeaksco4101 G43 H(tool number) is the tool length compensation for HAAS machines. I suppose it applies to other manufacturers too, just like G41 and G42.
Everytime I see "advanced" techniques it assures me of my abilities and reminds me how awesome it was to have my Dad learn me these things.
Love these short videos on the basics! This is how I do it on my older fanuc-controlled machine (haimer probe, tool setter gauge, probe the difference between tool height and work height). I also like to write down my offsets before putting them in the machine. It's an extra step, but sometimes it's good to get the numbers onto paper as a confirmation and error catcher.
I developed a macro to do all of this. All I have to do is load the tool # and diameter in my macro and then touch the tool off a fixed point on the table. It sets the length and diameter in the control then retracts. Works exactly like having an OTS on the table.
On a fanuc control?
@@RoboDriller On an older haas. You could do the same thing with a Fanuc
You do a good job explaining, Titan. Thank you and have a happy new year!
been using this exact method for years at my work place, extremely low cost, easy and still quite precise aslong you dont make a typo but i always check out my zero points if it matches before actually turning it on
for a simple one:
using presetter above your fixture.
if u use fanuc machine : data bank - offset - input C.
simple.
Awesome! I haven’t Picked up G54”Z” this way in years. Thanks for the review Titan, BOOM!
Thanks … i will be saving this into my training group of videos to share with everyone in future … have a great Holiday.
This is basically how I set Z offsets, but I use the edge technologies height setter, and i also set all my tool heights from the spindle nose. Like others here are saying you always end up with the true tool length and positive number, I only use 1-2-3 blocks if it’s more convenient. Love these videos it’s interesting to see other methods.
I love machining! I run an Okuma and love that you never have to home it!
I have 20 part offsets and many times I can just turn it on, load up the stock press go and OP1 is done✔
Vzofz, vzofx, vzofy 😋 i love okuma for that 😋
I have a fast method because I was rushed to run 3 machines for $16/hr I use a magnetic tool setter and any tool endmill. Zero out my tool setter, set it, zero out my relative, go above the center of the part with the magnet tool setter, get the difference and put it in my offset. It's pretty good if you're in a time crunch.
Thank you guys for these awesome tips. I am a new machinist about to get out of high school and your videos are very helpful.
Awesome setup video for Non probe machines. Most of us, Like Titan, were setting up CNC machines with edge finders and 1 2 3 Block for years. Just as accurate and I think just as fast. The Z axis WCS location and how you touch off tools can be done various methods. I always try to teach to learn different methods. Wherever you end up working , you can setup just like the rest of the shop - same method.
Titan I love you man, this one may be a hard one for some newbies in the trade to follow but I think I understand what you’re trying to explain here. When I started working for a company with no probing system I came up with a similar way of doing this but with an edge finder. I put an edge finder in pocket 20 or 25 and kept it there. I touch off a 1x2x3 block in my vice for Z then touch all my tools off the block too. Then I do some math and figure out all the differences in Z height from edge finder to the tool lengths (same thing the Reinishaw probe does basically) and now all those tools are gauged. Next job comes in I’m not touching off a common tool all over again I just touch off the raw stock with my edge finder and a shim and I’ve set Z. I think you’re trying to say something very similar, but even I was a little confused with the video.
excelente explanation for the beginner like myself. thanks.
I made foundry patterns for a few years, spinal implants for a few years, and plastic injection mold assemblies for a bit. Everyone does stuff different, I have learned so much. I took a break for 5 years and just got a position in a job shop. I’m nervous, but not too worried. Maybe a little surface rust but it comes right off
Thank you for your all videos... I watch your videos every day... I learn cnc machining from your videos
I use a magnetic Z offset setter that is spring loaded and I can touch off each tool to it sitting on my table. Then touch a tool off my stock and enter in an offset. Works well for those without a probe on older machines.
BRAVO Titan! VERY well said and well done!
awesome Titan ,thanks again for sharing the knowledge defiantly essential things to know
Love this channel!!!
I olny have experience using a probe. This is awesome
Great video Titan
Use with caution. If you lose your G54 or Z offset crash!
I had a new machine many years ago and it would lose the Z offset when you hit the reset button. Manufacturer didn't set the parameters correctly.
Brand new machine tried to explain to the GM that it wasn't 100% the operator's fault, thankfully the manufacturer admitted they made an error.
Taught me a good lesson early in my career no two machines are alike sometimes.
Man, i remember learning this the hard way
I wrote in T01 M06 and rather than doing like my $5k machine (going to machine zero and doing a fully automated tool change), it dove straight down into the table
On a $250k training machine, meant to be easy to use. You actually had to write "G20 G53 G90 Z0" followed by "X0 Y0" and finally "M06 R 4" (assuming you had to turn the tool changer to the right 4 times to get the right tool)
And yes, it actually does need that G20, even though that shouldnt matter when all coords are 0.
The shop I work for has so many jobs that we do 2, 3 or more ops to do. I keep suggesting that we combine these into one operation, it could be done and wouldn't be that hard, but I get told "that's to difficult for most set up people." I don't know what is with that. If I can do it, anyone that walks through that door should be able to because I just graduated from CNC programming and operation back in August. We are talking two operations on a standard 3axis, not some complicated 5th or more axis, yet we have other jobs we do where we have a trunnion and then a vise on a riser doing two operations in one, so I don't understand the resistance to change simpler programs into something more efficient.
Sometimes you just have to do things and shoe people the results. I've dealt with the "That's how we've always done it" mentality for years, usually after showing people what can be done and calming their concerns, they will become advocates for the improvements you're pushing.
Great video. Great education. Thank you
The Man Himself , Absolute Legend !👌👌
We use a z setter based on a macro. Setter is a set value so on either or Okuma or Mori, Z Value measure, work height offset is done.
Tools, basically the same. We have a touch of block and macro based on a 3 inch gage block.
Where I work, we measure Z a little different. Basically we have measured the lenght of 3D sensor on Zaxes. For example. with a sensor, zero it on your part and in work offset table just type in the lenght of the probe ( my case 195.0 mm) . So i just write Z195.0 and hit measure.
I wish they would have shown your videos at the school I went to. Would’ve made a lot more sense
After working on a 5 axis machine I started using a fixed xyz origin for all my programming, even on 3 axis. I use the machine zero for x and y and a 4in tool setter gauge off the top of a fixture plate. This is made easy using a fixture plate and tightly pinned vises and fixtures. If I'm working from stock I set up my job in the machine, then measure the location of the stock in z and x if its in the vise. with stock in the vise you can use a floating pin stop to set the side to side of the part. if its round stock in a collet chuck I measure x y and z using a dial indicator and a height gauge. I Then cad everything up, and its very easy. Often times ill 3d print a fixture that aligns to the fixture plate if I'm holding a part that needs to be modified, reworked or have a second op done. This method has many advantages. if I want to run a job again, I have a 3d model of the entire setup, and I don't have to re-establish my z height ever. since the origin doesn't change, Its less likely to crash. I can simulate the entire job and be confident that it wont crash as long as my tool stick-outs are correct in the cam software. The disadvantage is that if you are reworking a part you need to precisely measure the location of parts relative to the machine home, and its not ideal if you are running multiple parts and they shift from run to run. this could be avoided by running a probing cycle and using that to transform the program to the right xyz location.
Good to know. Thx
My shop does it a little different we touch off from table (Z0) and then we go to top of material and then that number we use as our z work offset. And for tooling we touch it off a 1-2-3 block and use the machine Z as our number and subtract 3 inches so that its exactly distanced form the table
Merry Christmas
This video is the best argument for tool probes or presetters. Not that Titan is doing anything incorrectly, but this is such an error-prone method of setup. Every peeler I know has wrecked tools at some point doing this, plus it's very time consuming compared to presetters, which allow you to set tools while the machine works, and the numbers are the physical tool length rather than an arbitrary machine position.
Automated tool probes are even better, fast, measure wear, process safety. Unless you have very limited changeover, this is the worst method. (But I would strongly argue for a tool probe for high volume work)
Thanks
I dont know why anybody, especially someone with a Haimer, needs to make this so complicated. Hiamer becomes your master tool for Z 0.0 height, every tool is referenced as plus or minus to the Haimer. You can set tool heights on anything you want at any time as long as the Hiamer hasn't changed or broken a tip.
Exactly what I’m thinking. No need for adding so many steps
@@cryptonian4114 on my machines without a probe, the haimer is tool 1 and offset g59 is saved for setting heights on the back corner of the table off of a gauge block. Never moves unless the space needs to be occupied, and then I just quickly reset the Z 0.0 for G59 and keep going. None of these crazy negative offset numbers and as long as the same Haimer is used across all of the machines then all of the tools interchange and can just punch in the offset value when loading. My probe machines use true length from spindle taper 0.0 and I also know the true length of the Haimer so when loading tools between probe and non probe machines just have to do the math quick and punch in the numbers. All of this backwards thinking, outrageous offset numbers that you can't visualize, and unnecessary steps just make it that much easier to crash a machine in my opinion. As the saying goes, K.I.S.S.
Same method I implemented on a Toshiba HBM.
One of the shops that I program for does not have a probe and I have to do it this way. I much prefer a probe and a different work offset for each part, but you have to use what you have. Even my personal hobby shop Haas TM mill had a probe.
We just use the Renishaw 3D Probe, but they're quite expensive... This is also a really good method to get your Z-Offset
There are so many different ways to do the same thing in this trade. Main thing is to do it safely then make good parts. Once you get that nailed down you can work on getting more efficient for yourself or your boss. 😁
Once I worked with graduated machine engineer that did not know how to find coordinate systems zero points. Happy holidays to all
And? Not all machines are the same. If he learnt with a different machine of yours, it just unfortunate. Just show him And work together And don’ waste time laughing at him.
@@simonkalman8302 I'll add to your comment with this...
Most trade programs only teach the how and not the why. So if the guy learned how to perform tasks on brand x, without learning why we do these things, then he was set up for failure when introduced to brand y.
If you know the why, the how becomes self-evident. Then it's just a matter of navigating a new interface.
I would personally not teach people to use negative tool offsets but to be fair this does work.
This Is the method i always used
G54 from table
Tool offsets from the table
We have a vacuum table on which we work with thin (4-8 mm) sheets of aluminium. I’m pretty scared to work on it because some guys mill right into the table as tools usually work at a 0.2 mm from it.
I’m not sure if this is right and I can’t get a straightforward answer from my colleagues.
But since I have to make sure somehow that neither the roughing nor the finishing tool would reach the table, I feel I must test all these tools on the side of the table, outside the work area, by sending them to the lowest Z coordinate they will be sent to in the program. I have to find the lowest coordinate of Z in the program for this, but I also do this with the spindle not spinning. Which makes some of my colleagues twist their head, but with the tool not spinning, I can see much more clearly where it is because I can see the blade’s reflection on the table, though I don’t mind stopping and opening the door a lot to make sure, but I just want to make sure.
Because you can see when a tool goes closer than the intended approach distance, things like that, but you won’t see whether a tool is just 1mm too low than it should be. You’ll only hear that it’s milling the table.
Would anyone have an opinion on how bad practice this is or any alternatives? The table is also custom built aluminium alloy, so I figure even if I mess it up, the tool will just make a small impression on it outside the work area.
with heidenain it is very similar, but more intuitive to perform.
Damn I would love to work for him I learned on the manual machines in school
To that last point, also make sure if you are running a tool that might be shorter, you don't bring the spindle casting/cover/coolant system down on a tall part elsewhere in the machine. Just cuz the part you're on clears the tool and holder and spindle nose, something else on the table might not.
Titan if I was using a tool setter out side of machine as you guys have done in previous videos. What would be the best way to set different work shifts in Z?
❤awesome 👌 👏 👍 😍
Idk what was missed in the video but the comments are disappointing...
The whole point is to have a solid reference you can rely on and you can then adapt it into your program.
Whether you're replacing a broken tool or just adding a new one, you don't zero off of the rough barstock. The 123 is your zero.
if you know your Hamner length mine is 186.347 just touch on your part hit Z measure type in the length of your hammer and done.
That 8 hundredths of a tenth in that one shot made my left eye twitch a bit...
Then the next shot with it z'd out on the dial with no clicky wheel clicky clicks made the twitch stop.
P.s.
I still touch off on a zig zag. Less risky in being off than the infinitely more complicated variables adding links to the mechanical metrology chain. And how clean was the table when you set the block down? 🚫 link, link, link... boom!
I have a $5000 CNC machine, I have no idea why I watch these videos LOL!
Titan why not setup a test sample with a error or errors in the measurements . To see who can find the errors before before operating the CNC machine so no accidents happen again. This way you can see how enough knowledge to detect the errors that can damage the CNC equipment.
Hate when tool lengths are a negative number tho...
I used to do like that but, with a little change, I input the 3D taster heigh before setting Zeros so u actually have the 0 (tool lenght) on the spindle nose.. So all the tools, probe included, have a positive lenght value
Dont know if my explanation is understandable, my english sucks for this kind of things, I tryed my best...
what is the accuracy difference between using the 1-2-3 block and a z-setter with a dial or digital readout?
Titan quick question, is there a way to do this so that your G54/G55 Z0 was at the top of workpiece instead of being a nonzero number?
I don't understand why we complicate our lives if we don't have an electronic sensor. I use the probe HAIMER this way:
1) The HAIMER probe is measured precisely on a marble or tool gauge. We put this length very visibly on the machine. "PROBE LENGHT=X.XXXX"
2) We reserve a work offset which is 3" above the table (ex: G59). We use the HAIMER probe to do this. The Z of the G59 is the exact distance in Z- between the Z0 machine and 3" off the top of the table.
3) To measure a tool, activate the G59 and with the 3" block we do the same procedure as in the video.
3) To measure a Z on a part, we use the HAIMER probe and we add the length of the probe to in Z- calculate by the machine. So the Z Work offset is the distance between the Z0 machine and top of the part.
This way the tool lengths are always Z+ and mean something. Additionally, if you have an electronic probe and it is broken, you can continue working with this method.
Dope
I have questions,why is need to use 1,2,3 block for set distance to top of the part? Can I use 4 or 5 gauge to set to top of part?
Titan quick question; Why the need from firs setting Z0 from the 1-2-3 block then probing Z on work piece? What's the difference from Z home directly to the top of the G54 workpiece and setting that to Z0? I'm just trying to learn the techniques. When I turn my machine on I reference all axis and then I directly probe my workpiece but never using this technique. As always I appreciate you and your teams efforts! Merry Christmas to all. Sending much love and gratitude!
This is for those that don’t have a probe.
So most will use an edge finder and get XY on the fixture.
Then they set tools off of the top of the part.
Which works perfectly.
But
This was allows you to have many different heights on many different fixtures.
Then you just set tools off a single 3” block.
Works especially good when running many ops at the same time, set up in different ways.
Make sense?
Of course there are many ways…
I chose machine Zero for Z
Because it’s a constant theme for all machines.
@@TITANSofCNC Thank you for the quick explanation and yes, it makes sense! Appreciate you.
Меня так дед на заводе учил привязывать инструмент. Сейчас пользуюсь renishow и грусти не знаю)
I’m little confused. What happened to 3 inch for the block. Why not take zero from table it self. I’m used to with negative z offsets and positive tool length.
Noticed you have switched a lot of tool holders back to set screw/Weldon shank holders. I understand their best feature isn’t good runout. Why did you switch?
Thank you sir
Thank god for fanuc i hate HAAS control😂
Anyone use the IHMI control to touch off Z offset. I’m trying to do it like I would on the classic screen where the tool sits right over a block and you hit z calculate and set that as my z offset. But the IHMI display does not give me that option. I know I can just type in my current z location but that’s not how I want to do it lol.
Why not z0 measur?
I would use positive negative number in Z work offset and positive tool lengths. Would measure tools outside the machine. I would write down my know distance from machine zero to the table since that wouldn’t change, I would enter that into my work offset Z and just add my vise (2.875” on our Kurt) then add my parallel heigh and stock height.
Boom
You can just get a tool setter for $100-150 y'know
While mine is a bit more than that (vertex hp-50a), it really pays off in time saved
We have a Haimer Presetter that we use… But, we’re just doing different videos for different people… who are at different levels.
I just set all my tools off of a common location and offset up or down for 54,55
You forgot to mention maybe THE most important OFFSET, NO. 000 EXT ( 3:35 ) 😉 and what you can do with it. 😀
That's the Auto-Crash offset!
@@steelwheelsminnesota
Actually it's the Anti-Crash Offset when you use it correctly. 🤓😉
I hope I'll never again have to deal with fanuc.
This seems way complicated for no reason, machines 0 is normally work offset G52 or G53. I guess what your doing is setting everything without using a spindle probe, tool probe or tool measure. The way I've always done that was set my X and Y part 0 off the part, and my tool length off the top of the part. But thinking about what you said about tools breaking. I used a 123 block or 1 inch block to measure an already known tool from a set location machine 0 (table) took the difference between and added it to the new tool...example -16.75+5.6 so my new tool 11.15 were the previous tool may have been 10.
задай машинный 0 от стола и не парься, зачем такие заморочки?
why does he use 123 block to zero off of ?
Idk they probably make there programs from that every shop does it different
Why not just 0 off at the table?
Some tools don’t reach
Lesson from the video... solid way to set your z offsets
Lesson from the comments... there's 100 different ways to do it, the only wrong one is the one that doesn't work for your shop
Correct😁🙏🤙
Only a sith deals in absolutes
1:46 its not 0 missing a cent
Why not calculating from the highest part it would be much safer
So many easy human errors will happen with this set up
Seems a very complicated and errorprone way of doing this
So why would you introduce another variable to the equation by using a 1 2 3 block if the table is the reference surface? Why not zero your fancy 3D thing on the table and calculate the difference from there? A reference tool can solve many issues, all tools are set in reference to that tool, and that tool is used to set your WPC (work piece coordinates) . Nothing is then set from home, like what's going on here. Each shop has it's own standard practice so as a machinist each has to adapt. This is far from perfect as you state
My robodrill spindle will not go that low, I had to use the 3" side plus another 123 block to touch off my shorter tool. 13.2" ish of z and that starts at spindle nose "about" 4" off table
GET A PROBE!
Little something for everyone… The reality is that most don’t actually have probes. I myself only use probes.
If you cant afford one, a tool setter is a good alternative
@@TITANSofCNC The next video?
why do it so hard. you not need know what distance 123 block is from part lol. you only need know heimer tool lenght. measure part surface with g43 H(heimer tool number) zero your offset BOOM. why is so hard? lol.
you can take tool height from that 123 block completely fine if you measure everything same place allways, but if you put mind on it. you can figure what is max z travel. its not what specs say but close.
i made g command to measure tools from same place and it give correct height. same as peepol use tool height gauge. why need buy lol
we not have any heimers or any its paper or shim 0.01 and its allways that acurate. rest is how tool cut and change offsett lol. is not that hard
Why isn't this fully automated .....seams a little low technology using humans lols
It’s just another way to do it for those that don’t have probes
Yeah, until you start working with machines that are actually accurate and repeatable; such as okuma’s. No more “homing your machine” every time you start it up or run a program. None of this chincy Haas or Doosan stuff 😅🤣
0.0001 inch = 0.00254 mm. you machine has 0.0000 every mm machine has 0.000. we can program 0.001mm its less than 0.0001inch. mm acurate.
ofc you can program inch using 0.00001 but your screen says 0.0000 LOL. why inch machines is so inacurate on screen. we do parts more tolerance than 0.0001 inch opsy
I'm honestly surprised to see you do this. I feel like it creates confusion for beginners. Every machine in the shop should use positive tool length geometry regardless if you use probes or not. Tools can then be moved from machine to machine without changing the geometry.