Fantastic video! I just got done telling some folks on a FB group not to bother looking on youtube for instructional videos for stabilizing because the majority are spouting bad info. The was spot on! I can tell you spent a lot of quality time chatting with Curtis before doing your article and then shooting this video. The only things I would change are truly individualized based on experience; this is the perfect jumping off point for anybody looking to get started. I'll be saving your video and sharing it with newbies to the craft.
Great video. Here are a couple corrections from a guy whose been doing it for 3 years and asked a ton of questions from the best in the buisness. Drying wood at 220 for 24hr does not mean your wood is dry! That's a starting point. Ya, if your wood is already pretty dry. That will do the trick. How do you know your wood is 100% dry? With a scale. Run for 24hrs (start with 12 if it's already pretty dry wood), weigh on a digital scale. Then back in the oven. A few hrs later check again. When it stops losing weight. Seal in an air tight container to cool. This is the most important and hardest step. And no, a meter won't help. They are no good below about 6%. Some guys also have great results using a microwave set to 20% power and doing 5-10mins at a time in cycles to dry Secondly, do not store in glass with or without a lid, or your CJ might cure. Some plastic containers will also do tbe same! HDPE is the best option (same plastic as milk jugs). Keep your juice below 85 degrees or it will cure! Keep your pump away! Yes you can store CJ in a refrigerator in the sumer. Also, many woods will run for 24hrs or longer before bubbling stops. Moisture in the wood makes it go longer. Some very punky wood might only bubble for 3 or 4hrs. On soaking. 2x the bubbling time is min!!! Many of us do 3x or longer. And and some dense woods (like Redwood) 5-7days is recommended. Also, TurnTex only recommends wrapping in foil if your doing large batches and stacking banks. It does not help retain any more juice. Www.turntex.com has a great Q&A page on its site. Also if you're on Facebook, there is a great group that's curated by Curtis, the owner or TurnTex.. Search "Wood Stabilizing."
Yep, everything you said is true. This video is more of a jumping off point and a supplement for an article I wrote for the magazine that addresses everything you mentioned. I spent quite a while on the phone with curtis while working on the article. Many of the items you mention are outlined in the instructions that curtis supplies with the juice - I would hope if someone were to dive into this, they'd read the info that comes with the supplies. - Logan
Thanks for the info. I have seen a couple of turners making blanks with Alumalite and also curing in a pressure pot. Never really seen cactus juice though, so really great to see. Take care as always from South Africa
Nice video! The pump makes a low pressure region inside the system. It seems like you understand the concept but you said it backwards a bunch of times.
I've wanted to buy the kitchen utensil kits that Woodcraft and Rockler sell like ice cream scoops and such but I want to turn the handles with wood not plastic. So stabilizing will give the wood that extra level of durability I need for a quick wash at the sink.
So one question, been to turn tex website did not see my question, What ambient temperature should the room be? For instance I only heat my shop in winter to about 50 deg will that work? Or in my home is the smell overpowering so I can't do it in my basement?
What is the best way to get epoxy resin(similar to West System Epoxy) to soak into wood that will protect it from water for a lifetime? I had thought of using a pressure chamber similar to how they pressure treat lumber. After the epoxy is infused the wood will be taken out and the excess removed and allowed to cure. Then a UV resistant top coat of poly or varnish will be applied. This wood will be used in the marine industry in full submersion for days or weeks at a time. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks
I know what I need, I just want to see what would be cost effective. I'm trying to stabilize a block I want to turn into a mallet. I'm rather dedicated to this one piece because is has some awesome patterns in it, but it also began cracking when the humidity got really high for a couple weeks. So I want to stabilize it to fill those cracks and make them more shock and moisture resident.
The cactus juice states to keep it at 85 degrees or below at all times, how does one do that when living in Tx, the garage gets pretty warm, even when using a mini split AC in the garage. What about the juice when not in use, can this be kept in a fridge to keep it cool? Thanks...
It's still on the list! We got in the middle of moving our studio and a few other things, but yes. I still want to do a video showing them getting turned!
On the blue cone you said you stabilized it, then re did it in the green and stabilized again. Thought you said once it has gone through the oven you couldn’t do it again? Confusion? Or did you mean you couldn’t bake it again? Thanks Gerhard
Gerhard - I'm not going to pretend to know the chemistry exactly, but once the curing has started, it must be finished (the first bake cycle). That cures all of the resin that's inside the wood. Once the blank is then vacuumed with resin, it pulls the new resin deeper into the wood. You then bake that and it cures the 2nd resin. The 200-degree cure temperature doesn't affect the already cured resin. However, if the first resin didn't cure, you wouldn't be able to bake it again to set it.
I find a lot of similarities between this process of Wood Stabilization and Resin Infusion of Fiberglass and Carbon Fiber panel layups. Wood is the original composite material.
Water should boil and turn to vapor at around 29 in.hg. At room temperature of 70 degrees f. So if you run the vacuum on the canister with only the wood it should help to pull the moisture out. The higher the ambient temperature the less vacuum it would take. Very little less though.
Nice presentation, but you didn't mention an important step. After running the vacuum pump for the correct period of time, the wood must sit in the solution for another 3+ hours to insure it absorbs the solution and fills the pores. THEN, take it out and bake it for final stabilization.
Mark - If you take a look at 10:45, you'll notice that I state they must soak 2x the amount of time they were under vacuum. 3 hours is NOT long enough for the blanks to soak. The minimum amount of time that I've had blanks vacuum for is 12 hours, so I always soak for at least 24, per discussions with the manufacturer.
Good information, well presented. Now this is really off-the-wall and I hope you don't take offense, but as a voice student (for singing) unfortunately I find your voice quite distracting. Vocal exercises have helped my speaking voice, and I think taking some vocal coaching would up your appeal.
I know I can always count on the Woodsmith men to be very knowledgeable and deliver a well researched topic/video and it's FREE. I can relate to them and find them to be genuine and the kind of folks I wish were my next door neighbor. Granted, we all can improve (even me), but I don't tune in here for coached tv voices. Don
@@drobb4207 The real benefit of a voice coach is for the speaker. He has what I think is called a 'vocal fry', which causes serious strain on the vocal cords and the control muscles. Over-use as is teaching or singing or acting, can cause vocal polyps, which could eventually cause loss of voice and require surgery.
DO NOT leave a vacuum pump unattended while it is pumping. Once it reaches a full vacuum(little less than 30 mercury) then you cut that booger off or you run an extreme risk of a violent implosion.
It is a super cool technique. Like I mentioned - I've been playing around with it and for anything that I'm turning, its super great. Not for everyone, but it's fun to mess around with new stuff! -Logan
Fantastic video! I just got done telling some folks on a FB group not to bother looking on youtube for instructional videos for stabilizing because the majority are spouting bad info. The was spot on! I can tell you spent a lot of quality time chatting with Curtis before doing your article and then shooting this video. The only things I would change are truly individualized based on experience; this is the perfect jumping off point for anybody looking to get started. I'll be saving your video and sharing it with newbies to the craft.
Great video. Here are a couple corrections from a guy whose been doing it for 3 years and asked a ton of questions from the best in the buisness.
Drying wood at 220 for 24hr does not mean your wood is dry! That's a starting point. Ya, if your wood is already pretty dry. That will do the trick. How do you know your wood is 100% dry? With a scale. Run for 24hrs (start with 12 if it's already pretty dry wood), weigh on a digital scale. Then back in the oven. A few hrs later check again. When it stops losing weight. Seal in an air tight container to cool. This is the most important and hardest step. And no, a meter won't help. They are no good below about 6%.
Some guys also have great results using a microwave set to 20% power and doing 5-10mins at a time in cycles to dry
Secondly, do not store in glass with or without a lid, or your CJ might cure. Some plastic containers will also do tbe same! HDPE is the best option (same plastic as milk jugs).
Keep your juice below 85 degrees or it will cure! Keep your pump away! Yes you can store CJ in a refrigerator in the sumer.
Also, many woods will run for 24hrs or longer before bubbling stops. Moisture in the wood makes it go longer. Some very punky wood might only bubble for 3 or 4hrs.
On soaking. 2x the bubbling time is min!!! Many of us do 3x or longer. And and some dense woods (like Redwood) 5-7days is recommended.
Also, TurnTex only recommends wrapping in foil if your doing large batches and stacking banks. It does not help retain any more juice.
Www.turntex.com has a great Q&A page on its site. Also if you're on Facebook, there is a great group that's curated by Curtis, the owner or TurnTex.. Search "Wood Stabilizing."
Wow! Thanks for all of your insights. It's nice to hear from someone who as a lot of woods stabilizing experience.
Yep, everything you said is true. This video is more of a jumping off point and a supplement for an article I wrote for the magazine that addresses everything you mentioned. I spent quite a while on the phone with curtis while working on the article. Many of the items you mention are outlined in the instructions that curtis supplies with the juice - I would hope if someone were to dive into this, they'd read the info that comes with the supplies. - Logan
These products open a whole new world! Lots of info, good job Logan!
Thanks Logan, have been looking at using this technique on some Pecan, just wasn't sure how to get started, your video is an excellent introduction.
Everytime i learn something new from woodsmith👍
Even though I'm not interested in turning pens at this point, I did find it very informative. This is a good video; one of your best, IMO.
Thanks for watching.
Being on wood Smith would be amazing it honestly is one of my favorite shows
But Also thanks Logan I’ve learned so much from you bud
"wood would" and "resin rather" are my favorite quotes from this video
😃 Lol, I think we have a good start to a tongue twister there…
Thanks for the info. I have seen a couple of turners making blanks with Alumalite and also curing in a pressure pot.
Never really seen cactus juice though, so really great to see. Take care as always from South Africa
Great demo and the best explanation. Thank you very much for this informational video. Much appreciated.
Nice video! The pump makes a low pressure region inside the system. It seems like you understand the concept but you said it backwards a bunch of times.
I am just about to get into stabilising so I found this video very useful. Cheers, Huw
Great idea... we'll have to make another video.
I've wanted to buy the kitchen utensil kits that Woodcraft and Rockler sell like ice cream scoops and such but I want to turn the handles with wood not plastic. So stabilizing will give the wood that extra level of durability I need for a quick wash at the sink.
So one question, been to turn tex website did not see my question, What ambient temperature should the room be? For instance I only heat my shop in winter to about 50 deg will that work? Or in my home is the smell overpowering so I can't do it in my basement?
Does the vacuum pump have to run the whole time?
Really great info and video thanks. Looking to get into this next week, one question I had is does blank size matter when it comes to curing time?
What is the best way to get epoxy resin(similar to West System Epoxy) to soak into wood that will protect it from water for a lifetime? I had thought of using a pressure chamber similar to how they pressure treat lumber. After the epoxy is infused the wood will be taken out and the excess removed and allowed to cure. Then a UV resistant top coat of poly or varnish will be applied. This wood will be used in the marine industry in full submersion for days or weeks at a time. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks
As a matter of interest approximately how many sets of scales can you stablizie with 1 gallon of cactus juice
Can you first stabilize the wood (vacuum) and then add resin to fill the gaps and cracks (Pressure)?
Yes, of course!
A solution to having resin sucked into your pump is to put a catch pot between your chamber and pump - it takes the stress out of the operation👍😀
Great idea! Thanks!
I know what I need, I just want to see what would be cost effective. I'm trying to stabilize a block I want to turn into a mallet. I'm rather dedicated to this one piece because is has some awesome patterns in it, but it also began cracking when the humidity got really high for a couple weeks. So I want to stabilize it to fill those cracks and make them more shock and moisture resident.
Super informative. Thank you.
The cactus juice states to keep it at 85 degrees or below at all times, how does one do that when living in Tx, the garage gets pretty warm, even when using a mini split AC in the garage. What about the juice when not in use, can this be kept in a fridge to keep it cool?
Thanks...
Would have been nice to see what the tuned blanks looked like.
It's still on the list! We got in the middle of moving our studio and a few other things, but yes. I still want to do a video showing them getting turned!
You don’t need to leave the vacuum pump on! Just add a valve you can close when you reached the appropriate vacuum.
On the blue cone you said you stabilized it, then re did it in the green and stabilized again. Thought you said once it has gone through the oven you couldn’t do it again? Confusion? Or did you mean you couldn’t bake it again?
Thanks Gerhard
Gerhard - I'm not going to pretend to know the chemistry exactly, but once the curing has started, it must be finished (the first bake cycle). That cures all of the resin that's inside the wood. Once the blank is then vacuumed with resin, it pulls the new resin deeper into the wood. You then bake that and it cures the 2nd resin. The 200-degree cure temperature doesn't affect the already cured resin. However, if the first resin didn't cure, you wouldn't be able to bake it again to set it.
So leave the vacuum pump on overnight ?
I find a lot of similarities between this process of Wood Stabilization and Resin Infusion of Fiberglass and Carbon Fiber panel layups. Wood is the original composite material.
Water should boil and turn to vapor at around 29 in.hg. At room temperature of 70 degrees f. So if you run the vacuum on the canister with only the wood it should help to pull the moisture out. The higher the ambient temperature the less vacuum it would take. Very little less though.
Nice presentation, but you didn't mention an important step. After running the vacuum pump for the correct period of time, the wood must sit in the solution for another 3+ hours to insure it absorbs the solution and fills the pores. THEN, take it out and bake it for final stabilization.
Mark - If you take a look at 10:45, you'll notice that I state they must soak 2x the amount of time they were under vacuum. 3 hours is NOT long enough for the blanks to soak. The minimum amount of time that I've had blanks vacuum for is 12 hours, so I always soak for at least 24, per discussions with the manufacturer.
It doesn't GO deep into the pores until you restore normal atmospheric pressure, and the air PUSHES it into the pores. Miss that?
Good information, well presented.
Now this is really off-the-wall and I hope you don't take offense, but as a voice student (for singing) unfortunately I find your voice quite distracting. Vocal exercises have helped my speaking voice, and I think taking some vocal coaching would up your appeal.
LOL... This is the first time I've heard this suggestion, but I'll look into it. :)
I know I can always count on the Woodsmith men to be very knowledgeable and deliver a well researched topic/video and it's FREE. I can relate to them and find them to be genuine and the kind of folks I wish were my next door neighbor. Granted, we all can improve (even me), but I don't tune in here for coached tv voices.
Don
@@drobb4207 The real benefit of a voice coach is for the speaker. He has what I think is called a 'vocal fry', which causes serious strain on the vocal cords and the control muscles. Over-use as is teaching or singing or acting, can cause vocal polyps, which could eventually cause loss of voice and require surgery.
DO NOT leave a vacuum pump unattended while it is pumping. Once it reaches a full vacuum(little less than 30 mercury) then you cut that booger off or you run an extreme risk of a violent implosion.
No, once it reaches a vacuum, it's as strong as it gets. If it doesn't implode immediately, you're good. What in the world are you referring to?
I baked the wood at 220°C and it caught fire... 5:48
The odds are I`ll never need that but you never know, thanks
It is a super cool technique. Like I mentioned - I've been playing around with it and for anything that I'm turning, its super great. Not for everyone, but it's fun to mess around with new stuff! -Logan