But I thought gender was a social construct and sexuality is whatever you want it to be and also what about being able to switch genders yall goofs Debunk everything you say
Not gonna lie...I kept getting confused on what he believes😭 He'd go down one path, then pivot and say something I wouldn't expect him to say. I just hope he finds happiness (if he's not found it already).
There are a lot of abrupt cuts when he is in the middle of a thought. So he probably had long explanations to their questions, and they just didn’t put the full response. I think it would make more sense then lol it was hard to follow for me, too.
Just because he didn’t say what you expected and it’s more complex than you are used to…. Doesn’t mean he’s manipulated and he’s confused. People just hate not being able to put people in a box.
@@kelsey.on.fire. There is nothing in this video that i didn't expect or is complex , i have met hundreds of people like him who have been brainwashed by the church and religion , some of them are even married with kids , they all say the same things and his family not accepting his sexuality has contributed a lot to that.
I can only imagine the amount of gaslighting that happened to him over the course of such formative years for him to be so confused this late in life. I hope that he's able to get the proper therapy he needs. One that helps him find his identity, and love himself, and realize how much love is in the communities he's apart of.
@@AnonV1997 yes! a lot of the homophobia that happens around is caused by straight/conservative people being introduced to lgbt people through p0rnography and that only, so they just thought gay people were perverts and s3xual deviants or whatever, when in reality it's about love and relationships. :)
he’s so obsessed with sex … it seems like he doesn’t even consider missing out on same sex love- like the romantic side of relationships. conversion therapy is so focused on gay sex that it forgets about the positive benefits from being in a romantic relationship
That's because many Christians refuse to view homosexual relations as love. They think homosexuality is always based on lust. To them, a guy liking guys or a girl liking girls is just as bad as two straight people having sex before marriage.
@@idkGBT he doesn't seem happy tho. he's talking about identifying as gay and starring in all these gay adult movies but at the same time says he would go back to conversion therapy, he wants to be straight, and also compared being gay to an abusive relationship.
The person who was the gay minister spoke so thoughtfully and gently, I was really glad he was in this video. I hope Chris will continue to meet christians and spiritual leaders like him, I feel like connections like that could be very healing in his situation.
A prime example of how two people with similar stories can go down different paths with different results. The pastor seems happy and free. The other guy seems hurt and unhealed still even at 40. I just hope I can be so calm and so free with before I turn 40 and repressed like the guy in the black shirt
Dude sounds just as lost at 40 as he was at 19 with all these contradictory statements. Seems like he has spent his entire life trying too hard to both accept and deny the fact that hes gay. I think a lot of people in the lgbt community sometimes wonder what their life wouldve been if they were straight and grieve not having that “normal and easier” type of life but it’s important to remember that what matters the most is to stay true to yourself. I hope Chris (and anybody else who struggles with accepting themselves) truly finds peace
He wants to be devout Christian while being Gay. Thats causing cognitive dissonance. If he was just cultural Christian / just spiritual / atheist etc he would not have problem accepting himself without saying being gay is wrong.
@@ajasen what? why would he say "gay" instead of "lgbt" if the context is meant to include everyone who is not straight? that doesn't even make sense dude, also gays and lesbians have always fought for a common goal which is to be free to love whoever you want. and that applies to trans people too because they want to be able to be loved for who they are so we are definetly in this fight togther.
@@Concerned_citizenNZ you dont “convert” to other sexualities. You are what you are when you are, but things change whether it be traumatic life events or the discovery of something new. As a gay christian who has struggled and prayed my entire life to change, trust me. There is no choice to what you are attracted to.
You actually can. A massive study led by the genetics of Harvard and MIT in Cambridge proved that although there a several genes markers related to sex, none of them are responsible for sexuality. But of course everyone should be treated equally and no one should be disrespected for their choice
This is so sad. So many older gays like him ended up hating themselves and acting toxic after being told they were bad people for so long. I’m so glad we’ve moved past this type of thinking.
It not even that, it’s also the new movement partially bastardizing what they worked to achieve. That’s another rabbit hole but trust me, there is a lot, and it’s not a topic allowed on social media. All I will say is imagine seeing your struggles, depression, and lived experience become a fad to some people, it’s whatever but to think it isn’t something felt by others, you’d be sorely mistaken. I’m an outcast from the community, it isn’t about love anymore and to say as much is to brand yourself as vile to society.
Bahaha. The younger "woke" crowd have so little self awareness. They just regurgitate what is the politically correct narrative. Im older than him and am so glad that I cam out in a time before tic toc and all the current nonsense. I didnt make my whole identity based on "woke" politics and delusional gender ideology. Im happily gay, but dont think Im a woman or feel the need to have the world conform to my preferences.
Yeah I agree that comparison really threw me off like I don't get how he could think that, I respect that he does, I just don't understand it and don't agree with it
He's not even comparing the two..., but bringing up an example in which he wanted to show clearly that love in itself isn't as strong an argument as people make it to be
@@jinjunliu2401 ya he isn't comparing the 2 , he's just stating how love doesn't solve everything, the are many number of obstacles and I doubt love in itself will make u pass all of them
While I agree that there is more that is needed in a relationship than just love, the whole point of “love is love” is that it’s okay to not be heterosexual. The “love is love” movement is unrelated to the heterosexual abuse that he was referring to.
Gay conversation therapy doesn’t work, because nothing is wrong with you. Being gay isn’t a mental disorder. The therapy he needs is to start loving himself
… he is still gay tho.. the conversion therapy obviously didn’t work, i think he doesn’t realize the harm in it cause he didn’t get terribly or physically abused but i don’t think he is “wrong” for saying anything he did. he was confused and manipulated by those around him.
Being gay is perfectly normal and natural? Isn't in nature the goal to reproduce? So if all of us were "natural and normal" (gay), why would our species go extinct in 80 years?
@@kubelwagen831 u contradicted urself, if "the goal is to reproduce" then how does being gay help, by being gay u cant have natural children aswell as disobeying gods command
@@Jeremy-wp4yh They absolutely need to give an episode to someone who was forced to go into conversion therapy so they can precisely describe the horror of what it actually is.
How is it absurd? One sided love of an abused gf to her bf is still live is it not? Is it beautiful, should we congradulate her and support staying with her loved one who beats her up?
@@MrMich1lol no. Love is love refers to people should fall in love with and shouldn't be ashamed to love another person..of course it has to be consensual and safe
Everyone’s saying he’s confused just because he doesn’t have a clear answer to everything. He’s not pretending to know everything and being honest about the things he’s still struggling with
Meanwhile some of those who asked questions interrupted him when they didn't like his answers... Why would you participate when you're just looking for confirmation and can't even listen.
I feel that he's really looking for something but not sure what it is. He thought that he need certainty, but there are so many conflicting emotion in him. I think he should accept that he's open to anything, not trying to define oneself, and that's ok to be uncertain.
No one may have physically forced him to go to “conversion therapy” but it’s clear it was emotionally forced onto him by his trauma from his childhood. This is so sad and heartbreaking.
@@Crest97 I don't give af if it's his own choice. The practice is literally in the list of unethical. It causes mental and physical harm to almost all who went through it. When we have bad turn out therapies they are ban from use to prevent anymore harm. The reason why conversion therapyis still around today like the few of the bad practices because of religious freedom. Don't let me get on so much more bad practices that we still do that make things worse are harm many ignorant people.
@@nate2759 by that logic no one is allowed to make observations or comments on this video at all unless you’re a therapist. I’m allowed to give my opinion. I’m not claiming to be a therapist.
"it's an ongoing debate" not at all. We all know sexuality is not a choice. I grew up in a religious home and I had only ever seen heteronormative relationships all my life and my attraction to girls was completely new to me. I learnt about homosexuality only after I realized I felt something no one around me did.
@@Momo-vl7ly it's conclusive that it is both nature and nurture like most things in psychology. Though I do believe it is more nature than nurture. Especially with twin studies
@@hopeintruth5119 It is indeed epigenetic, however that means that in a perfect environment gay people would cease to exist and consequently that conversion therapy could probably work
He did, only to THEN say that love doesn't really matter because it's "just a feeling" and it's foolish to base your life on a feeling since they change all the time. So... People do harm in the name of love, but conversion therapy is justified because it's based on love. Make it make sense
@@ncjxbshj it's sad how confused he is!! He doesn't make sense because he still doesn't understand himself :( And sadly, some people struggle with this their entire lives!
@@pantherblack2645 Most churches are becoming pro lbgt and more progressive. It’s easier to grow if you compromise for path of least resistance. It’s actually the most traditional that are the least evangelical, and least monetarily focused.
I'm never going to understand why it is hard for people to just accept the differences in others. Out of all the problems in the world, people choose to focus on discriminating against love. It's honestly mind-boggling . What's the big deal, honestly.
You know: your comment says a lot about you people. You have problems with people that doesn't like lgbt but you have no problem with people dislike incest even though both of them are the same, Two faces for the same coin
@@hornerfarah2282 They aren't the same. People dislike in est because it causes harm. Being gy doesnt cause harm. I get that you do in est but don't compare yourself to gy people. It's wrong to dislike gy people because there is nothing wrong with being gy
It's their arrogance towards others from their pride. Their pride makes them insecure so they're always needing to prop up their fragile ego by holding others in contempt.
There are some so called counselors at domestic violence agencies that use conversion therapy tactics. Conversion therapy “practitioners “ that got fired from private practices now work in the dv sector. Being gay is never abuse. I’m just letting people know, these places can treat gay people very badly, no oversight. An entire state had its dv organization disolved by the state because of abuse of the clients.
Logically, he knows being gay is totally ok. Emotionally, he just can't accept that. He wants a "normal and happy" life, that's why he went to therapy, and he still have hope that one day he might change. He is just not happy being gay. (much like trans ppl don't like their born sex, I guess?
and he goes to therapy but trans people dont. i think there is something to learn here. we cant just tell people fallacies like a male can be a female, thats biologically impossible.
@@sirmister9099 Some people are born with both reproductive organs. Some people may have ovaries and male parts. Others may have testes and lady parts. It is possible. Many people forget the I in LGBTQIA+ stands for intersex. These people may grow up one sex and by 30 may be another. Some don't get a choice because doctors make the choice for them. Educate yourself sir.
I know a gay guy from Turkey who has successfully seduced multiple straight men since getting a hookup with girls in Turkey is quite hard due to it being a Muslim majority country. Those men didn’t see my friend as a potential love interest, he was just a hole to them. The men he has sex with was still straight. I think this is the type of stuff he meant.
Wow, this was far more interesting and nuanced than I could have imagined. Like others here, I don’t quite get what specifically Chris believes, but he seems like a really thoughtful guy and it was very interesting to hear his thoughts (which clearly have developed over a long time). Jubilee guys, I wish you’d put more of the interviews in the edit! =)
Well i think he tried his bet to do offend people, even thoough he wants people to be happy in life, he dosn´t think that being gay is a proper lifestyle, and neither do I in fact. Cause I am also gay, was raise in the church, even though I like men, I would never marry one.
@@nethanvaartstra3789 So you don't think your lifestyle is proper? Or are you lying or intending to lie about your sexuality getting a girl to unwittingly be your beard? Because that would be evil.
i really want to continue to watch this but.. I feel so sorry for him.. I understand that he feels uneasy to be gay, but.. omg. it's horrible. why?? homosexuality is not a bad thing. I just hope that he accept himself one day.
@@dantaegarcia1778 you have to understand and accept yourself. Why is their discomfort? How do.we deal with this discomfort. When psychology deal with this getting rid of the discomfort ismta bout doing away with what make stem discomfort but how do we remove discomfort and accept it in our daily life. Also you sound very homophobic in the comments
He made a choice. He doesn't hate himself. It's like hating the fact that you drink a lot and deciding to go to therapy to sort it. He's gay, he knows that he's gay, and he doesn't like it. Period.
One of my friends from school went through conversion therapy, voluntarily and involuntarily. He has ptsd for the rest of his life and has attempted to take his life many times. It's torture. No ifs or buts.
@@nearn8517 here’s an example.. Woman say that men can’t speak on abortions.. just a few weeks ago they said men can get pregnant.. where’s the sense in that 😂
I’ve been wondering how this guy has been doing. It’s interesting to see where he is now and hear his story. Hope he finds some more peace and lots of love. 💙💙
@@LIA-pt9tu You can't be a Christian and turn around and say that a certain sin from the Bible is ok. That's like saying I'm a Christian despite having premarital sex with numerous people.
@@DesertEagle093 I don't think you know that much about christianity or religion in general, first of all there are different types of christians- liberal christians don't care about premarital sex because of forgiveness and they don't care about LGBTQ members because it was never stated as a sin in the first place, it's not even mentioned in the Bible. Wearing mixed fabrics is a sin so in your eyes, no christian should wear mixed fabrics or they aren't a christian. However christianity as a religion is homophobic in some aspects, but you can be part of a religion/ group and not agree with all their views, doesn't make you any less christian. Also literal criminals who have committed serious sins are still christians if they have faith.
In my experience, I almost went this way as well. I didn’t want to *be* gay. I didn’t *choose* to be this way. But I did *try* to not be gay. So much that I hated myself. I use to pray the gay away! I hated every inch of who I was. I tried dating the opposite sex, I experimented in the opposite sex and guess what! I still came out gay!! It got to the point that I realized my hatred towards my sexuality wasn’t from a personal perspective, it was from my mother’s, my father’s, my religion. The second I realized that, I embraced my sexuality
“Don’t want to put a label on it” kinda attitude quite often comes from people who are unable to accept themselves fully. He is defending conversion therapy and then engaging in behaviors it was supposed to change. It’s almost bizarre, the disconnection in his being. He needs proper therapy and guidance to drop all the philosophy and hate he internalized and come back to himself. It’s definitely possible.
Respectfully I’d disagree that “don’t wanna put a label on things” is an attitude from people who are unable to accept themselves fully. In his case he has the courage to come public about his personal journey which is nothing but controversial. I think that’s a lot of self-acceptance there. In my own life, on a different but equally controversial subject - this whole racial identity thing. People see my skin color and respect me as an Asian. But I’m not a full Asian - im genetically Chinese and fluent in Chinese culture and language. However, im also fluent in English and culturally literate in America. I literally have two identities and always hate being labeled as an Asian or as an American, or even as an Asian American, because I wasn’t born in America and I don’t identify myself that way. So, some people who hate labels probably just have a lot more stories and experiences that others have a hard time understanding.
@@kittylover4974 I agree that we should strive to live from a place beyond labels, but after we have unpacked what they are to us and our community. I believe society is not there yet and it is important to have conversations about them. Many people have made that step, but people who attend conversion camps most certainly have not. It comes from a place of self denial in my opinion. And if we are making a parallel, it would be equivalent to you joining an anti-Asian group. My label comment is referring more to the people he was describing from the therapy setting and queer people who I’ve met, who take this high ground beyond label attitude as an excuse not to come out and be true to whatever their identity might be. But I fully agree we can and probably should live not bound with labels, but after we know and accept ourselves more deeply.
I want to give him a big hug. He compared same sex love to abuse. It seems like the abuse he has experienced is between him and his religious experience/ the church.
People do that all the time though. People struggle with who they are and aspire to who they wish to be. Often for the better. It's a complete modern falsity that you should just be happy with "who you are". It almost means nothing when you think about it.
It’s heavily associated with short sighted behavior and deviancy. Today we know that there is no immutable genetic trait but actually statistically speaking something like a higher sex drive in many cases. Similar to how deprivation in prisons makes some “gay”. Current discourse seems to be mostly based on women going into motherly nurture mode for various groups and concepts that are not actually their children, which they are having to few of for society to have a future.
What makes you think that being gay is what he is or what makes him happy?? Maybe he Want be straight and that's why he go to conversion therapy because that what make him happy. You people should exercise your logic Because it's starting to dying
I feel like most people are thinking way to far into this conversion therapy thing he said he went through, and it definitely didn’t work on him, but a lot of people are discrediting his answers cause he can’t answer in a way they want. He clearly feels like it’s a sin and that’s what makes his answers. Everyone over reacting with his words. I myself wouldn’t ever try to be straight but I see why he is messed up it’s ingrained in his head but y’all act like he doesn’t know what he’s talking about when he’s speaking about his experiences and his life with the conversion therapy. People clearly have a lot more growth to do and maybe one day he’ll be fine with being gay but that’s not for us to say oh he’s wrong he doesn’t know what he’s talking about it
But he DOESN`T know what he is talking about! His statements are constantly contradictory to one another, and he keeps shifting blame? He even misunderstands the concept of Love within the LGBTQ+ community. The moment that was most telling of his ignorance, was where he talked about how he doesn`t like how "militant" the LGBTQ+ community has become in their push for love, and the queer person opposite him shifted the focus over to (something that is a real thing and that is actually damaging and threatening towards the community) the "Don`t say gay bill" and anti-trans legislation. The main goal of the LGBTQ+ community, in my understanding, is to act and speak up to make the world a safe and livable place for people that are outside of the current heteronormative society.
I think this discussion should have been only between the pastor and him. Conversion therapy does not work but if he thinks it does or has something positive to contribute to his life, I believe the best person who had a common ground with him or at least could see things from his perspective was the pastor.
@@jinjunliu2401 we literally ban multiple therapies already. Especially those that harm most of participants and remain ineffective. We already do this. .
you are saying conversion therapy doesnt work but he actually is going through it and seems like it does. perhaps the point is not to “make someone straight” so maybe you dont understand what they actually do
You should make a video about all the "ex-gay" men who have been caught cheating on their wives with men! There's no such thing as ex-gay. All they do is go back into the closet and pretend to be straight. The fact some of you guys don't see though it is hilarious!
Poor guys is so wound up in all these thoughts everyone has fed him with throughout his life (parents, church, conversion therapy etc). He feels completely lost within himself - like a confused teen. Hope he’s getting some proper therapy to ”reset” himself and find the real him again (or for the first time ever, really). ❤️
There's a lot of hurt and internal conflict written all over him. I pray he heals and accepts himself and stops being at war with who he thinks he needs to be. I also hope he researches the history of conversion therapy and that it was in fact not a self made choice for most people most people were and are forced into it and abused in it. It has not ever been proven effective the only proven effects are trauma.
it really doesnt seem like he went to a gay conversion therapy. it seems more like christian therapy for sex (since he mentioned that not everyone was gay). ive heard others talk about this, and gay conversion therapy is about "changing" the way you are through different methods, most including abuse. im glad he liked his experience in conversion therapy (or thats what it seems) but he cant speak for the overwhelming majority that were traumatized by it.
@@nate2759 no it should not be allowed. It's literally an unethical type of therapy. It does not irk and garms most if the participants than actually help them. If this was any other therapy it would be already illegal to perform
@@nate2759 hes valid for spreaking about his experience, but what he went to doesnt seem like conversion therapy. ive been to christian therapy too and this reminds me more of sex/relationship therapy NOT conversion therapy.
I feel like it’s really harmful to use the same term, conversion therapy, to describe: A. “treatments”/“therapy” adults go willingly to because they want to be straight, B. abuse queer/trans children are put through to try and change them, and C. therapy for people working to overcome sexuality related addictions. I think that a lot of the confusion of these discussions were because was Chris using definition A and everyone else was picturing and talking about definition B. And at one point Chris mentioned people at his conversion therapy place for reason C, which isn’t conversion at all.
Im gay and I am happy the way I am. I tried to change but the feelings of attraction to men will always be there, it never goes away. I SOMETIMES COME ACROSS gay men married to women online in gay sites. I dont want to be like those gay men married with women who sneak out behind her back and cheat on their wives with other men. I rather be honest than live a LIE.
Before I became an adult and still had to go to church, i knew a guy who was gay but chose to suppress his urges and got married to a woman. A few years later they divorced. I really hope this guy finds himself and doesn't go down the same path.
He didn't compare being gay to abusive relationships. He pretty clearly gave an example about how "love is love" can be detrimental and isn't an end all be all argument on how to accept something regardless of what it is.
Did anyone notice how he avoided answering a lot of questions? He skirted around answering many times. I feel pity for him because he has so much self hate.
I’m confused. This guy is saying the conversion therapy did not work but it taught him self love. And that’s why he thinks it shouldn’t be banned? There are soooo many questions in this sentence I can’t even type. I’m so confused I think we need to interview someone like this on our channel to get some answers. 🤦🏾♂️
I used to be gay and I decided to change, I'm not even religious, but I wanted to change, and I did, I went to therapy even though it's illegal where I live. I now live the life I wanted to live, I dislike being told by people, government, etc, that I have to accept being gay when it's not what I want.
When he talked about the whole love is love part and used an abusive spouse as an example well that’s completely different. When you’re in love with your abusive spouse who’s physically and emotionally harmful to you in that scenario you’re gonna have to weight pros vs cons and realize that yeah being in love is not an enough reason to stay in this relationship. That’s not the same as being in a completely healthy relationship and in love with someone. Here love will play a much greater role.
@@bookedroomer he was saying that being in love with someone is not everything in this world, that it can be harming to yourself and others, and that you shouldn't built your entire identity on it since it's based on a feeling and that feelings can change. Take for instance the abusive relationship analogy, a person that's in an abusive relationship (in this case the victim) can still be in love with his partner / abuser even though there's physical or emotional abuse happening. And in fact its very well documented, some form of it we call it today as the "stockholm syndrome". He isn't saying that gay relationships = abusive relationships, he is saying feelings of love aren't everything in this world and he brings up an example of it via abusive relationship
I see a lot of comments about contradictory statements and the like, or people calling him a sad guy. I guess my thoughts on how to make sense of that: I feel like he has a belief that separates his identity in his faith and his actions or tendencies towards being gay. This would allow him to say "I am gay" and also so "my identity is in Christ". In some respects, that's kind of awesome. His identity isn't tied to his attraction to other people, even if he were straight. He is able to acknowledge his attraction AND not tie his identity to it. His identity isn't volatile to if people accept him or not.
Finally a fair comment. I'm gay and I've accepted that I'm gay and it can't change; but I also concede that it's not objectively ideal; it doesn't mean I hate myself, it's about perspective. It would have been much simpler if I was attracted to the girl I dated for 12 years, but being gay complicated it beyond comprehension.
@@GM-qq1wi Sometimes you should just not care of what other people think and just live your life freely and don't worry because you will always have people who will support you no matter what and lots other gay organisations helping the lgb people. I'm glad that you have accepted yourself but when you dated a girl, was it before you came out as gay? If you didn't know you were gay then that's fine cause you properly were just questioning your sexuality but if you knew then it's unfair cause you'd be deceiving the girl which is selfish.
@Johannes its physically and mentally impossible to "turn" someone gay, as you are born with it. so if that kind of thing existed, it would be just as bad as conversion therapy (not that being gay is bad) but it would aim to do the same thing : try to change something about yourself that cant be changed.
@@thatonemetalhead_666 What proof is there that it cannot be changed though? Is there research that shows (gender) attraction is fully based on nature and none of it on nurture? If so I'd like to know, feel free to send links to research papers
These topics are challenging to compromise on for a society so diverse in nature. Huge props to the participants in this video to be willing to be vulnerable discuss these topics despite differing views. These discussions are important to help all sides better understand each other. Hopefully in doing so, everyone can learn to coexist in relative harmony, agreeing to disagree, but extending compassion to one another.
After watching the video. I feel like he has a wealth of experiences and being aware of how he feels and felt led to complex thoughts. Thoughts that may seem hypocritical if not explained to the fullest. I would have appreciated if I saw the full conversations he had with everyone not just the "highlights", or to be more accurate, the selectively determined clips. There were a lot of points that were not be fleshed out and I would have loved to here the back and forth on those points. There was one exchange with the white woman where she raised a question and I would have liked to hear his response but it cut to the next clip before he responded.
O he has very mush not accepted himself and still dealing with issues that he has to ort out. An issue that is ageless. I met gay guys who figure that out when there 70 or 80 which I'm half tehy did but it took so long due to the social and religious pressures involved
The way he grew up fucked his mind up. Being gay is not a choice, it’s just how you are. Conversion therapy is one of the most harmful things to lgbtq+ youth. They are forced to go there by religious institutions.
He made a choice. He doesn't hate himself. It's like hating the fact that you drink a lot and deciding to go to therapy to sort it. He's gay, he knows that he's gay, and he doesn't like it. Period.
@@dantaegarcia1778 it’s a lack of self love. it implies that he believes there’s something wrong with him. He hates a part of himself and that’s shown throughout the video.
Having same-sex attraction is something one has no control over and therefore is obviously allowed in christianity. Living a gay lifestyle is a major sin in Christianity though.
@@binodtharu1236 it's not allowed neither prohibited. The bible only mentions about same sex relationship, but not attraction. From the same root, Islam says that maintaining a same sex relationship is a sin. Which means it's not a sin to be gay, but it is a sin to do gay sex or promoting this lifestyle as an ideal one
I really wish we could just accept each other's differences. I grew up in the church i loved it. But just being gay resulted in a lot of rejection from my friends. I would love to still be in a church but this one aspect about me created this divide with the people i loved just because I'm attracted to men
One thing I’m aware of is that sexuality is just a part on being human and alive, what happens behind closed doors need not be anyone else’s concern other than you and your partner. But at the same time, if you push it under the carpet or wish to change a tendency which comes so naturally to you and is not in your control, all that it will do is torment you and make you suffer.
I think it's one thing to go to therapy to help explore your sexuality or put some pieces together but it's another to go to therapy based on the belief that you need to be changed...
I loved this episode. I liked the tension that sparked in the conversation about these topics that are so prevalent in our society and how they should be viewed.
No talk about healthy relationships, having a family etc. Which obviously gay people also do. Just talk about "agendas," etc. Jubilee should do a redo on this topic.
I (personally) feel like Jubilee is choosing interviewers (the person being questioned) to cause more shock/arguments/attention rather than how it felt like when they used to to educate and inform. I think conversations and “arguments” can be important as we can learn through them and seeing viewpoints from different people, but at the same time I feel conflicted on the casting in multiple recent videos as I feel like it’s almost to push more shares for how controversial they can be and farm views. Idk, anyone else?
For sure. I used to be a big fan of the channel because it felt thoughtful and like the producers really wanted people on all sides of an issue to have their mind opened. Lately it just seems like they are becoming like every other clickbait information source.
I feel the same way, this video was just recommended to me and it’s pride month so I thought it would be positive…. it was just confusing and sad to see
The 1946 “Bible translation error” of the word “homosexual” he is referencing has been disproved. The original Hebrew and Greek translation is “men who lie with men” Also that is not the only place homosexuality is referenced in the Bible, so even if that singular word was mistranslated, it would be irrelevant, because homosexuality is condemned elsewhere in the Bible. Please research before believing what you hear, there are many scholars who researched and disproved that 1946 documentary that is trying to spread misinformation about the Bible.
@@sirmister9099 no, i don't think he is doing fine :( He doesn't accept and love himself, and the analogs he talks about are toxic and full of self-hatred. He needs someone he can trust and a therapist who accpets him and helps him grow.
The person who asked about dont say gay made a hilariously confused face when he was talking about how he doesn't want to silence therapists. And that face is exactly how I feel about this guy.
Someone should have asked "are you happy? Do you hate yourself?" So he can answer for himself without 1.5k people in the comments accusing him of self hatred.
When he talks about how there's too much focus on labels and too many rules assigned to people of different sexualities........and then goes on about how gayness should be suppressed. He was so close to the point and then made the most absurd conclusion. He also went from being a regular gay dude, to suppressing it to two years in therapy, and then releasing all that pent up frustration in gay sex work. And he still thinks that converstion therapy works? (Nothing wrong with sex work btw, but just a bizarre contrast which shows how starvation leads to bingeing.)
His answers are so great and insightful. Especially what he says about "Love is love". We need to hear more people like him in society. Also, stop demonizing conversion therapy. The times where it was electro shocks and lobotomy are long gone. And a lot of people freely choose to go there. Banning it is not to help the people concerned, but to push an ageanda on our society. And this has to stop. Do you want to be gay and act on that? Fine, I respect that. But please also respect that some people don't want to go the same way.
The talk with the gay minister was very civil and mature whereas it seemed like most of the others (especially the girl the the glasses) came in with negative or hostile energy
No they didn’t? How the heck do want them to react? He basically implied that there was nothing wrong with conversion therapy and it’s homophobic tendencies. How are you defending him?
The thing for me is. People keep saying the option should be open for those who want it. But is it really ever a choice if fundamentally the reason why you are pushed into it is that your surroundings tell you it is inherently wrong. If you are constantly told it is wrong and a sin, you start to think that, but does that mean you still have a free choice? Or if you feel like you have to do it because you want to be normal and this clearly stems from the fact that being gay is considered abnormal and might place you in a difficult position in life is that really a choice? To me, this seems like you are consciously and subconsciously pressured to do so not because it is something you freely choose, but because in a way society holds a metaphorical gun against your head.
can someone tell him that: he can make a family as a gay. he can call his husband with "wife" word if he wants if he needs if he desires if he dreams as desperatly. he can adopt kids, animals for family too; he can love and protect his formed family ( he needs experience about 'love is love' and he needs to learn ' kids are kids ' for family forming too. but first he needs to be ready for love and care someone but he expecting to get rough like and excitement for all the time and this is exhausting; atleast for me). i can't believe he wants a family. he wants just exciting different and new men sex experiences and he is blaming lgbt+ rights, feelings, people etc... he loves his self as with his satyriasis and he has dreams about tradinational families. also i don't like this word but i have to admit he is a "boomer". i think he has emotion hungry so much maybe love pain or love emptiness maybe guilty feelings idk... yes he needs self love but also he needs confidence and he needs reliable and same tasted person for new experiences and adventures about his family dream... but atleast he is alive after id crisis, therapies, believes; thanks for goodness...
Actually I think he points made a lot of sense. I just feel like jubilee cut a lot so we didn’t fully get to understand what he was saying. Also I don’t think he and other people were on the same page as definitions of a lot of things. Ex: how do you define conversion therapy. Cuz I think he’s just thinking of his experience of talk therapy while other people are thinking of shock therapy Also I feel like it was unclear at the end if he just didn’t want to associate with the “gay community” / label or if he would stop having gay relationships / gay sex or if he would just stop thinking about this as much but still do gay stuff if it comes up. He talks about changing his sexuality but also expresses he doesn’t like labels.
I hope anyone watching this who is questioning their sexuality knows that there is absolutely nothing wrong with you. If you want to express your sexuality, and you’re in a safe environment to do so, DO IT. You are not “sinning”, you are not broken - never feel bad about who you are. 🌈✨
4:00
"Just because a guy has sex with another guy it doesn't mean he's gay"
"They ain't straight"
😂
Screaming lol 😂
😂😂
the way I hollered ahahah
Actually it's possible. With women encouragement. Mostly this thing happen during bdsm session.
But I thought gender was a social construct and sexuality is whatever you want it to be and also what about being able to switch genders yall goofs Debunk everything you say
Not gonna lie...I kept getting confused on what he believes😭 He'd go down one path, then pivot and say something I wouldn't expect him to say. I just hope he finds happiness (if he's not found it already).
Loll he was contradicting himself so much
He is really confused and has been manipulated so much. I'm really sorry for him.
There are a lot of abrupt cuts when he is in the middle of a thought. So he probably had long explanations to their questions, and they just didn’t put the full response.
I think it would make more sense then lol it was hard to follow for me, too.
Just because he didn’t say what you expected and it’s more complex than you are used to…. Doesn’t mean he’s manipulated and he’s confused. People just hate not being able to put people in a box.
@@kelsey.on.fire. There is nothing in this video that i didn't expect or is complex , i have met hundreds of people like him who have been brainwashed by the church and religion , some of them are even married with kids , they all say the same things and his family not accepting his sexuality has contributed a lot to that.
I can only imagine the amount of gaslighting that happened to him over the course of such formative years for him to be so confused this late in life. I hope that he's able to get the proper therapy he needs. One that helps him find his identity, and love himself, and realize how much love is in the communities he's apart of.
Reread what you typed out and posted, s0ylad.
he seems fine
@@sirmister9099 definitely not fine. He contradicts himself the whole video.
@@russwes7778 maybe he contradicts your ideology but his logic was consistent
@@sirmister9099 were you even watching the same video?🙊🤦🏻♀️
This guy doesn't need conversion therapy. He needs regular therapy, period.
I agree, I hope he can find hapiness in his heart UnU
He needs love. Not just sex with men, but love from a male partner.
@@AnonV1997 yes! a lot of the homophobia that happens around is caused by straight/conservative people being introduced to lgbt people through p0rnography and that only, so they just thought gay people were perverts and s3xual deviants or whatever, when in reality it's about love and relationships. :)
@@AnonV1997I agree with you! ❤
@@AnonV1997 No he needs to be in love with a woman
he’s so obsessed with sex … it seems like he doesn’t even consider missing out on same sex love- like the romantic side of relationships. conversion therapy is so focused on gay sex that it forgets about the positive benefits from being in a romantic relationship
Prove the difference. Can’t? Then you’re by definition a bigot. Enjoy knowing that
I agree. He seemed so focused on sex.
That's because many Christians refuse to view homosexual relations as love. They think homosexuality is always based on lust. To them, a guy liking guys or a girl liking girls is just as bad as two straight people having sex before marriage.
@@Sailor_Universe yes exactly, they refuse to acknowledge the romantic side of things while still dismissing it
What's positive about it?
I feel so bad for this poor guy. I really hope he’s able to find happiness and love himself for who he is
We have the same pfp, it’s too bad we never became moderators for pdp
He seems happy. Why would you feel bad for him
@@idkGBT he doesn't seem happy tho. he's talking about identifying as gay and starring in all these gay adult movies but at the same time says he would go back to conversion therapy, he wants to be straight, and also compared being gay to an abusive relationship.
seems happy here
@@tonyflamingosucks6590 Ayy fellow pdp fan
The person who was the gay minister spoke so thoughtfully and gently, I was really glad he was in this video. I hope Chris will continue to meet christians and spiritual leaders like him, I feel like connections like that could be very healing in his situation.
Gods don’t exist.
@@vp9549 Then Neither do you.
@@vp9549 👏🏾
@@vp9549 irrelevant
A prime example of how two people with similar stories can go down different paths with different results. The pastor seems happy and free. The other guy seems hurt and unhealed still even at 40. I just hope I can be so calm and so free with before I turn 40 and repressed like the guy in the black shirt
Dude sounds just as lost at 40 as he was at 19 with all these contradictory statements. Seems like he has spent his entire life trying too hard to both accept and deny the fact that hes gay.
I think a lot of people in the lgbt community sometimes wonder what their life wouldve been if they were straight and grieve not having that “normal and easier” type of life but it’s important to remember that what matters the most is to stay true to yourself.
I hope Chris (and anybody else who struggles with accepting themselves) truly finds peace
He wants to be devout Christian while being Gay. Thats causing cognitive dissonance.
If he was just cultural Christian / just spiritual / atheist etc he would not have problem accepting himself without saying being gay is wrong.
@@rho992 plenty of "lost" atheists, gay straight or otherwise, often far more "lost" than this guy.
@@ajasen moreover, the lgb really dont believe what in t’s. lgb is to do with sexuality and t is to do with gender. they arent even the same category.
@@turdrhinofiend Only one's lost are goofy religious believers.
@@ajasen what? why would he say "gay" instead of "lgbt" if the context is meant to include everyone who is not straight? that doesn't even make sense dude, also gays and lesbians have always fought for a common goal which is to be free to love whoever you want. and that applies to trans people too because they want to be able to be loved for who they are so we are definetly in this fight togther.
If I can’t convert myself into being gay, and you can’t convert yourself into being straight, how is anyone else ever going to make you convert?
I've heard of people who have converted to being gay. Plenty of people describe having a choice
@@Concerned_citizenNZ It could be that they are bisexual. That's why they are into opposite and same gender
@@Concerned_citizenNZ you dont “convert” to other sexualities. You are what you are when you are, but things change whether it be traumatic life events or the discovery of something new. As a gay christian who has struggled and prayed my entire life to change, trust me. There is no choice to what you are attracted to.
@@philipsparks6089 but if you were a MAP you'd still be praying. Some attractions are sins. Same with Cenk the beastiality supporter
groomers can easily convert people to being gay, they sung about it and bragged in San Francisco choir, you can look it up it was viral
I think that this truly proves that you can't choose your sexuality.
You actually can. A massive study led by the genetics of Harvard and MIT in Cambridge proved that although there a several genes markers related to sex, none of them are responsible for sexuality. But of course everyone should be treated equally and no one should be disrespected for their choice
@@Luna_44. Thanks for the info Dr. Smoothbrain 👍
@@vp9549 not my brain, brains of the world's best university upheld with scientific proof
You can’t choose your attraction but you can choose your sexuality.
@@Luna_44. That was a complicated way of informing that no one has taught you how to draw conclusions.
This is so sad. So many older gays like him ended up hating themselves and acting toxic after being told they were bad people for so long. I’m so glad we’ve moved past this type of thinking.
The damage is done. People like him have serious self hate issues, and I don’t blame them.
but have we really moved past it though?
Now take this attitude and be kind to veterans you see, rather than looking at them as willing pawns of political crap.
It not even that, it’s also the new movement partially bastardizing what they worked to achieve. That’s another rabbit hole but trust me, there is a lot, and it’s not a topic allowed on social media. All I will say is imagine seeing your struggles, depression, and lived experience become a fad to some people, it’s whatever but to think it isn’t something felt by others, you’d be sorely mistaken. I’m an outcast from the community, it isn’t about love anymore and to say as much is to brand yourself as vile to society.
Bahaha. The younger "woke" crowd have so little self awareness. They just regurgitate what is the politically correct narrative. Im older than him and am so glad that I cam out in a time before tic toc and all the current nonsense. I didnt make my whole identity based on "woke" politics and delusional gender ideology. Im happily gay, but dont think Im a woman or feel the need to have the world conform to my preferences.
comparing gayness to an abusive heterosexual relationship is wild
Yeah I agree that comparison really threw me off like I don't get how he could think that, I respect that he does, I just don't understand it and don't agree with it
He's not even comparing the two..., but bringing up an example in which he wanted to show clearly that love in itself isn't as strong an argument as people make it to be
@@jinjunliu2401 ya he isn't comparing the 2 , he's just stating how love doesn't solve everything, the are many number of obstacles and I doubt love in itself will make u pass all of them
tbh i wish they would’ve included what he said after her response to what he said
While I agree that there is more that is needed in a relationship than just love, the whole point of “love is love” is that it’s okay to not be heterosexual. The “love is love” movement is unrelated to the heterosexual abuse that he was referring to.
Gay conversation therapy doesn’t work, because nothing is wrong with you. Being gay isn’t a mental disorder. The therapy he needs is to start loving himself
there is, if there was nothing wrong with you why would gay conversion therapy exist?
… he is still gay tho.. the conversion therapy obviously didn’t work, i think he doesn’t realize the harm in it cause he didn’t get terribly or physically abused but i don’t think he is “wrong” for saying anything he did. he was confused and manipulated by those around him.
Being gay is perfectly normal and natural? Isn't in nature the goal to reproduce? So if all of us were "natural and normal" (gay), why would our species go extinct in 80 years?
exactly
@@kubelwagen831 u contradicted urself, if "the goal is to reproduce" then how does being gay help, by being gay u cant have natural children aswell as disobeying gods command
I hope they give an episode to someone who didn't go to conversion therapy willingly.
They don't need to do that. That narrative is played out. We need to hear from people who approved.
But that's most gay people. These episodes are for people with an experience that would seem very strange to most people
I do too. This seems like it’s trying to repair the image of conversion therapy
@@Jeremy-wp4yh They absolutely need to give an episode to someone who was forced to go into conversion therapy so they can precisely describe the horror of what it actually is.
@@saramahmoud5205 👍👍
Chris seems tired. I hope he gets some rest. I loved the moments between him and the pastor. Beautiful!
respectfully, his analysis on “love is love” is absurd
How is it absurd? One sided love of an abused gf to her bf is still live is it not? Is it beautiful, should we congradulate her and support staying with her loved one who beats her up?
@@MrMich1lol no. Love is love refers to people should fall in love with and shouldn't be ashamed to love another person..of course it has to be consensual and safe
@@hopeintruth5119 love is love is how “minor attracted persons” are able to continue trying to normalize grooming children
@@sirmister9099 not really because of the love is love rhetoric is done by lgbtq and we understand the context around it
@@hopeintruth5119 Sometimes two people aren’t meant to be together no matter how much both of them “love” each other.
Everyone’s saying he’s confused just because he doesn’t have a clear answer to everything. He’s not pretending to know everything and being honest about the things he’s still struggling with
Meanwhile some of those who asked questions interrupted him when they didn't like his answers... Why would you participate when you're just looking for confirmation and can't even listen.
I feel that he's really looking for something but not sure what it is. He thought that he need certainty, but there are so many conflicting emotion in him. I think he should accept that he's open to anything, not trying to define oneself, and that's ok to be uncertain.
Thank you. It's not that difficult to understand but folks would much rather black and white takes. Ridiculous.
💯
@@vuri3798 exactly!
No one may have physically forced him to go to “conversion therapy” but it’s clear it was emotionally forced onto him by his trauma from his childhood. This is so sad and heartbreaking.
You are not qualified to say that, only himself and his psychologist is able to obtain that information.
@@nate2759 umm yeah ots pretty clear he was socially enforced to do so. It's not rocket science but he should go and see a therapist
@@Crest97 I don't give af if it's his own choice. The practice is literally in the list of unethical. It causes mental and physical harm to almost all who went through it. When we have bad turn out therapies they are ban from use to prevent anymore harm. The reason why conversion therapyis still around today like the few of the bad practices because of religious freedom. Don't let me get on so much more bad practices that we still do that make things worse are harm many ignorant people.
@@nate2759 by that logic no one is allowed to make observations or comments on this video at all unless you’re a therapist. I’m allowed to give my opinion. I’m not claiming to be a therapist.
@@Crest97 he mentioned his childhood trauma in the video….
"it's an ongoing debate" not at all. We all know sexuality is not a choice. I grew up in a religious home and I had only ever seen heteronormative relationships all my life and my attraction to girls was completely new to me. I learnt about homosexuality only after I realized I felt something no one around me did.
As far as I am aware there isn't a conclusive study which links a certain genome to homosexuality
Yeah….. no it’s not conclusive
@@Momo-vl7ly it's conclusive that it is both nature and nurture like most things in psychology. Though I do believe it is more nature than nurture. Especially with twin studies
@@dantaegarcia1778 though it Is conclusive that its nature and nurture
@@hopeintruth5119 It is indeed epigenetic, however that means that in a perfect environment gay people would cease to exist and consequently that conversion therapy could probably work
he did not just say conversion therapy is based on love
He did, only to THEN say that love doesn't really matter because it's "just a feeling" and it's foolish to base your life on a feeling since they change all the time. So... People do harm in the name of love, but conversion therapy is justified because it's based on love. Make it make sense
@@ncjxbshj it's sad how confused he is!! He doesn't make sense because he still doesn't understand himself :(
And sadly, some people struggle with this their entire lives!
@@sofienummers how do you know you aren't the one thats deeply confused?
Ikr pure delusion...
Love doesn't always mean acceptance. I don't have to condone every aspect of a person to love them.
I’d love to see this guy have a conversation with LGBT Christian/religious leaders: more people like the nice minister in the white blazer!!
The church wouldn’t last long. How will they get new members?
@@pantherblack2645 they will pick up some desperate people while much more will leave as it's been for the last half century
Majority of Christians are pro lbgt and abortion. Makes you wonder what even makes them Christian.
@@pantherblack2645 Most churches are becoming pro lbgt and more progressive. It’s easier to grow if you compromise for path of least resistance. It’s actually the most traditional that are the least evangelical, and least monetarily focused.
Nah, ministers who affirm sin are no ministers at all.
I,m so glad that he talked to the gay pastor. I feel like that conversation might be a turning point for him towards loving himself more.
I'm never going to understand why it is hard for people to just accept the differences in others. Out of all the problems in the world, people choose to focus on discriminating against love. It's honestly mind-boggling
. What's the big deal, honestly.
You know: your comment says a lot about you people. You have problems with people that doesn't like lgbt but you have no problem with people dislike incest even though both of them are the same, Two faces for the same coin
@@hornerfarah2282 They aren't the same. People dislike in est because it causes harm. Being gy doesnt cause harm. I get that you do in est but don't compare yourself to gy people. It's wrong to dislike gy people because there is nothing wrong with being gy
I can accept something and not agree with it
@@fhiyos_2611 As long as you're not harassing someone over their sexuality, that' is fine. You are allowed to disagree, but respectfully.
It's their arrogance towards others from their pride. Their pride makes them insecure so they're always needing to prop up their fragile ego by holding others in contempt.
This is sad. Comparing domestic abuse to being in a gay relationship. I hope he finds peace and self love because everyone deserves that.
There are some so called counselors at domestic violence agencies that use conversion therapy tactics. Conversion therapy “practitioners “ that got fired from private practices now work in the dv sector. Being gay is never abuse. I’m just letting people know, these places can treat gay people very badly, no oversight. An entire state had its dv organization disolved by the state because of abuse of the clients.
He didn’t tho he brought up the fact that love is love is not always a great term and that can be used for horrific actions goof
@@AyoPapiiKs well, this is not love he gave example of
@@_liqour_ who gets to arbitrate that?
I can see it in his eyes how hurt he is. He needs a therapy session based on loving yourself instead
He literally said that the therapy he went to was about self-love...
@@rpreid32 they have been indoctrinated into believing conversion therapy is evil experiments.
you a projecting what you want to see bud. This is called cognitive dissonance.
@@Dbulkss it’s actually just simply being able to read people. psychology major
@@aliharvey206 that means nothing bud.
Logically, he knows being gay is totally ok.
Emotionally, he just can't accept that.
He wants a "normal and happy" life, that's why he went to therapy, and he still have hope that one day he might change.
He is just not happy being gay. (much like trans ppl don't like their born sex, I guess?
I agree totally.
and he goes to therapy but trans people dont. i think there is something to learn here. we cant just tell people fallacies like a male can be a female, thats biologically impossible.
@@sirmister9099 Some people are born with both reproductive organs. Some people may have ovaries and male parts. Others may have testes and lady parts. It is possible. Many people forget the I in LGBTQIA+ stands for intersex. These people may grow up one sex and by 30 may be another. Some don't get a choice because doctors make the choice for them. Educate yourself sir.
@@kt-wg6nj you are talking about a mutation. no one else is talking about intersex. your point is useless and you failed to give an actual reply
@@sirmister9099 lots of trans people go to therapy.
"if two men have sex it doesn't mean they're gay"
30 sec later: "i'd consider myself gay just because i have sex with men"
I know a gay guy from Turkey who has successfully seduced multiple straight men since getting a hookup with girls in Turkey is quite hard due to it being a Muslim majority country. Those men didn’t see my friend as a potential love interest, he was just a hole to them. The men he has sex with was still straight. I think this is the type of stuff he meant.
“Did they say being gay was wrong”
“It was very complicated”
Cause they are manipulative and they try to make it sound complicated. It’s not.
Wow, this was far more interesting and nuanced than I could have imagined. Like others here, I don’t quite get what specifically Chris believes, but he seems like a really thoughtful guy and it was very interesting to hear his thoughts (which clearly have developed over a long time). Jubilee guys, I wish you’d put more of the interviews in the edit! =)
Yeah calling him simple would be a lie
Well i think he tried his bet to do offend people, even thoough he wants people to be happy in life, he dosn´t think that being gay is a proper lifestyle, and neither do I in fact. Cause I am also gay, was raise in the church, even though I like men, I would never marry one.
@@nethanvaartstra3789 So you don't think your lifestyle is proper? Or are you lying or intending to lie about your sexuality getting a girl to unwittingly be your beard? Because that would be evil.
"THEY AINT STRAIGHT!" Best quote of the episode
the title is eye catching that’s for sure
i really want to continue to watch this but.. I feel so sorry for him.. I understand that he feels uneasy to be gay, but.. omg. it's horrible. why?? homosexuality is not a bad thing. I just hope that he accept himself one day.
@@dantaegarcia1778 that’s the thing thou you can’t change them, even he knows that
@@dantaegarcia1778 You literally cannot change your attraction. That's just not possible.
@@dantaegarcia1778 you have to understand and accept yourself. Why is their discomfort? How do.we deal with this discomfort. When psychology deal with this getting rid of the discomfort ismta bout doing away with what make stem discomfort but how do we remove discomfort and accept it in our daily life. Also you sound very homophobic in the comments
@@dantaegarcia1778 he isn't bring pittied not shamed. He should find a real psychologist to understand his emotions and underlying issues
He made a choice. He doesn't hate himself. It's like hating the fact that you drink a lot and deciding to go to therapy to sort it. He's gay, he knows that he's gay, and he doesn't like it. Period.
One of my friends from school went through conversion therapy, voluntarily and involuntarily. He has ptsd for the rest of his life and has attempted to take his life many times. It's torture. No ifs or buts.
It is so sad to know that we feel shameful of our own identity ,own sexuality !
Society? Are you being serious? Are you oppressed? No, and don’t mention the “don’t say gay bill” it isn’t targeting people of different sexualities
Sounds like his identity is in his faith, what’s wrong with that?
@@dantaegarcia1778 Objectively wrong lol. Case and Point: Sarasota High
@@nearn8517 here’s an example.. Woman say that men can’t speak on abortions.. just a few weeks ago they said men can get pregnant.. where’s the sense in that 😂
@@nearn8517 ohhh no I can’t bring up sexuality in a graduation speech, the horror
I’ve been wondering how this guy has been doing. It’s interesting to see where he is now and hear his story. Hope he finds some more peace and lots of love. 💙💙
Where have you seen him before?
I would love to hear more from the gay minister.
there should be a video all about LGBTQ+ Christians/religious people/youth, just to hear what they feel. i would love to see that
That's an oxymoron
@@DesertEagle093 no its not-
@@LIA-pt9tu You can't be a Christian and turn around and say that a certain sin from the Bible is ok. That's like saying I'm a Christian despite having premarital sex with numerous people.
@@DesertEagle093 I don't think you know that much about christianity or religion in general, first of all there are different types of christians- liberal christians don't care about premarital sex because of forgiveness and they don't care about LGBTQ members because it was never stated as a sin in the first place, it's not even mentioned in the Bible. Wearing mixed fabrics is a sin so in your eyes, no christian should wear mixed fabrics or they aren't a christian. However christianity as a religion is homophobic in some aspects, but you can be part of a religion/ group and not agree with all their views, doesn't make you any less christian. Also literal criminals who have committed serious sins are still christians if they have faith.
@@LIA-pt9tu Except it is
In my experience, I almost went this way as well. I didn’t want to *be* gay. I didn’t *choose* to be this way. But I did *try* to not be gay. So much that I hated myself. I use to pray the gay away! I hated every inch of who I was. I tried dating the opposite sex, I experimented in the opposite sex and guess what! I still came out gay!! It got to the point that I realized my hatred towards my sexuality wasn’t from a personal perspective, it was from my mother’s, my father’s, my religion. The second I realized that, I embraced my sexuality
“Don’t want to put a label on it” kinda attitude quite often comes from people who are unable to accept themselves fully. He is defending conversion therapy and then engaging in behaviors it was supposed to change. It’s almost bizarre, the disconnection in his being. He needs proper therapy and guidance to drop all the philosophy and hate he internalized and come back to himself. It’s definitely possible.
Not to mention he profited off of being gay in the p*** industry. He needs therapy for that too.
@@justayari like straight p*** or gay p*** .
Respectfully I’d disagree that “don’t wanna put a label on things” is an attitude from people who are unable to accept themselves fully. In his case he has the courage to come public about his personal journey which is nothing but controversial. I think that’s a lot of self-acceptance there. In my own life, on a different but equally controversial subject - this whole racial identity thing. People see my skin color and respect me as an Asian. But I’m not a full Asian - im genetically Chinese and fluent in Chinese culture and language. However, im also fluent in English and culturally literate in America. I literally have two identities and always hate being labeled as an Asian or as an American, or even as an Asian American, because I wasn’t born in America and I don’t identify myself that way. So, some people who hate labels probably just have a lot more stories and experiences that others have a hard time understanding.
@@kittylover4974 I agree that we should strive to live from a place beyond labels, but after we have unpacked what they are to us and our community. I believe society is not there yet and it is important to have conversations about them. Many people have made that step, but people who attend conversion camps most certainly have not. It comes from a place of self denial in my opinion. And if we are making a parallel, it would be equivalent to you joining an anti-Asian group. My label comment is referring more to the people he was describing from the therapy setting and queer people who I’ve met, who take this high ground beyond label attitude as an excuse not to come out and be true to whatever their identity might be. But I fully agree we can and probably should live not bound with labels, but after we know and accept ourselves more deeply.
@@kittylover4974 this feels extremely Freudian
I want to give him a big hug. He compared same sex love to abuse. It seems like the abuse he has experienced is between him and his religious experience/ the church.
Her face at 8:50 is pretty much my expression throughout this video.
Literally conversion therapy has been scientifically disproven
This makes me so sad. So ashamed of who you are that you feel like you have to change it.
People do that all the time though. People struggle with who they are and aspire to who they wish to be. Often for the better. It's a complete modern falsity that you should just be happy with "who you are". It almost means nothing when you think about it.
Nothing wrong with changing yourself if you want too.
It’s heavily associated with short sighted behavior and deviancy. Today we know that there is no immutable genetic trait but actually statistically speaking something like a higher sex drive in many cases. Similar to how deprivation in prisons makes some “gay”. Current discourse seems to be mostly based on women going into motherly nurture mode for various groups and concepts that are not actually their children, which they are having to few of for society to have a future.
While at the same time society has normalised cosmetic plastic surgery
What makes you think that being gay is what he is or what makes him happy?? Maybe he Want be straight and that's why he go to conversion therapy because that what make him happy. You people should exercise your logic Because it's starting to dying
I feel like most people are thinking way to far into this conversion therapy thing he said he went through, and it definitely didn’t work on him, but a lot of people are discrediting his answers cause he can’t answer in a way they want. He clearly feels like it’s a sin and that’s what makes his answers. Everyone over reacting with his words. I myself wouldn’t ever try to be straight but I see why he is messed up it’s ingrained in his head but y’all act like he doesn’t know what he’s talking about when he’s speaking about his experiences and his life with the conversion therapy. People clearly have a lot more growth to do and maybe one day he’ll be fine with being gay but that’s not for us to say oh he’s wrong he doesn’t know what he’s talking about it
Wow well said
Exactly my thoughts. Its his own experiences so noone can say how he's feeling and what he actually feels
But he DOESN`T know what he is talking about! His statements are constantly contradictory to one another, and he keeps shifting blame?
He even misunderstands the concept of Love within the LGBTQ+ community.
The moment that was most telling of his ignorance, was where he talked about how he doesn`t like how "militant" the LGBTQ+ community has become in their push for love, and the queer person opposite him shifted the focus over to (something that is a real thing and that is actually damaging and threatening towards the community) the "Don`t say gay bill" and anti-trans legislation.
The main goal of the LGBTQ+ community, in my understanding, is to act and speak up to make the world a safe and livable place for people that are outside of the current heteronormative society.
This!!! Nobody wanted to listen. Some just wanted to hear a politically correct answer instead of a thoughtful one
@@llamaglitter you have to think through his answers instead of taking them at face value
This is horrible. I feel so bad for him-
Love isn’t a feeling it’s a commitment.
Yes
Without love there is no commitment
Very well said! 👏
Love is a feeling/emotion...just like hate (opposite of love).
I think this discussion should have been only between the pastor and him. Conversion therapy does not work but if he thinks it does or has something positive to contribute to his life, I believe the best person who had a common ground with him or at least could see things from his perspective was the pastor.
Yes but should be banned greatly as it orays on people of already hurt psychy
@@hopeintruth5119 censorship certainly isn't the way to go
@@jinjunliu2401 we literally ban multiple therapies already. Especially those that harm most of participants and remain ineffective. We already do this.
.
@@hopeintruth5119 Ah I thought you meant the guy being banned from public discussions
you are saying conversion therapy doesnt work but he actually is going through it and seems like it does. perhaps the point is not to “make someone straight” so maybe you dont understand what they actually do
You should make a video about all the "ex-gay" men who have been caught cheating on their wives with men! There's no such thing as ex-gay. All they do is go back into the closet and pretend to be straight. The fact some of you guys don't see though it is hilarious!
fr
Oooop your comment ate
yess
Hmmmm ashamed because of church, who would’ve thought
Poor guys is so wound up in all these thoughts everyone has fed him with throughout his life (parents, church, conversion therapy etc). He feels completely lost within himself - like a confused teen. Hope he’s getting some proper therapy to ”reset” himself and find the real him again (or for the first time ever, really). ❤️
“The real him” bigot
@@juniorqindes8335 what
i think this guy talking to the gay minister was an amazing thing for him to get I could just tell how safe he felt with him
There's a lot of hurt and internal conflict written all over him. I pray he heals and accepts himself and stops being at war with who he thinks he needs to be. I also hope he researches the history of conversion therapy and that it was in fact not a self made choice for most people most people were and are forced into it and abused in it. It has not ever been proven effective the only proven effects are trauma.
it really doesnt seem like he went to a gay conversion therapy. it seems more like christian therapy for sex (since he mentioned that not everyone was gay). ive heard others talk about this, and gay conversion therapy is about "changing" the way you are through different methods, most including abuse. im glad he liked his experience in conversion therapy (or thats what it seems) but he cant speak for the overwhelming majority that were traumatized by it.
He wasn’t speaking for other people, he was speaking from his own experience and if people want to go to conversion therapy they should be allowed to.
@@nate2759 no it should not be allowed. It's literally an unethical type of therapy. It does not irk and garms most if the participants than actually help them. If this was any other therapy it would be already illegal to perform
He didn't seem the happiest
@@nate2759 hes valid for spreaking about his experience, but what he went to doesnt seem like conversion therapy. ive been to christian therapy too and this reminds me more of sex/relationship therapy NOT conversion therapy.
@@rayikes6231 Well he believes it was conversion therapy.
I feel like it’s really harmful to use the same term, conversion therapy, to describe: A. “treatments”/“therapy” adults go willingly to because they want to be straight, B. abuse queer/trans children are put through to try and change them, and C. therapy for people working to overcome sexuality related addictions. I think that a lot of the confusion of these discussions were because was Chris using definition A and everyone else was picturing and talking about definition B. And at one point Chris mentioned people at his conversion therapy place for reason C, which isn’t conversion at all.
This video was such a rollercoaster. I did not see half of his answers coming
Im gay and I am happy the way I am. I tried to change but the feelings of attraction to men will always be there, it never goes away. I SOMETIMES COME ACROSS gay men married to women online in gay sites. I dont want to be like those gay men married with women who sneak out behind her back and cheat on their wives with other men. I rather be honest than live a LIE.
whew this guy has gone thru some INTENSE indoctrination. hope he finds peace with himself one day
same
You have also gone through intense indoctrination since birth. We all have but the smart ones eventually wake up with the help of Christ.
@@nate2759 no... you ARE the indoctrination
Before I became an adult and still had to go to church, i knew a guy who was gay but chose to suppress his urges and got married to a woman. A few years later they divorced. I really hope this guy finds himself and doesn't go down the same path.
He didn't compare being gay to abusive relationships. He pretty clearly gave an example about how "love is love" can be detrimental and isn't an end all be all argument on how to accept something regardless of what it is.
Did anyone notice how he avoided answering a lot of questions? He skirted around answering many times. I feel pity for him because he has so much self hate.
Yeah cus he doesn't want backlash from the LGBT/Liberal mob.
Self hate: not conforming to the beliefs of bigots like Chrystal clear. The h is to show you’re annnoying
This video was heavily edited, so one cannot really judge it adequately.
This guy seems like he is in pain. It's evident on him. My heart goes out to him tbh. 🙏🏾💙
he seems like he's still got some stuff to figure
I’m confused. This guy is saying the conversion therapy did not work but it taught him self love. And that’s why he thinks it shouldn’t be banned? There are soooo many questions in this sentence I can’t even type. I’m so confused I think we need to interview someone like this on our channel to get some answers. 🤦🏾♂️
ew not the self advertising
@@r.owennn 💀💀
I used to be gay and I decided to change, I'm not even religious, but I wanted to change, and I did, I went to therapy even though it's illegal where I live.
I now live the life I wanted to live, I dislike being told by people, government, etc, that I have to accept being gay when it's not what I want.
When he talked about the whole love is love part and used an abusive spouse as an example well that’s completely different. When you’re in love with your abusive spouse who’s physically and emotionally harmful to you in that scenario you’re gonna have to weight pros vs cons and realize that yeah being in love is not an enough reason to stay in this relationship. That’s not the same as being in a completely healthy relationship and in love with someone. Here love will play a much greater role.
I think his point that love is not the most important thing when it comes to a relationship. You need someone who supports you and helps you grow
@@larissakingsley5258 can two people of the same gender somehow not do that
People who aren’t very smart think he was comparing being gay with an abusive relationship. It went way over your heads.
@@nate2759 so why exactly did he bring it up
@@bookedroomer he was saying that being in love with someone is not everything in this world, that it can be harming to yourself and others, and that you shouldn't built your entire identity on it since it's based on a feeling and that feelings can change. Take for instance the abusive relationship analogy, a person that's in an abusive relationship (in this case the victim) can still be in love with his partner / abuser even though there's physical or emotional abuse happening. And in fact its very well documented, some form of it we call it today as the "stockholm syndrome". He isn't saying that gay relationships = abusive relationships, he is saying feelings of love aren't everything in this world and he brings up an example of it via abusive relationship
I see a lot of comments about contradictory statements and the like, or people calling him a sad guy.
I guess my thoughts on how to make sense of that:
I feel like he has a belief that separates his identity in his faith and his actions or tendencies towards being gay. This would allow him to say "I am gay" and also so "my identity is in Christ". In some respects, that's kind of awesome. His identity isn't tied to his attraction to other people, even if he were straight. He is able to acknowledge his attraction AND not tie his identity to it. His identity isn't volatile to if people accept him or not.
Finally a fair comment.
I'm gay and I've accepted that I'm gay and it can't change; but I also concede that it's not objectively ideal; it doesn't mean I hate myself, it's about perspective. It would have been much simpler if I was attracted to the girl I dated for 12 years, but being gay complicated it beyond comprehension.
@@GM-qq1wi Sometimes you should just not care of what other people think and just live your life freely and don't worry because you will always have people who will support you no matter what and lots other gay organisations helping the lgb people. I'm glad that you have accepted yourself but when you dated a girl, was it before you came out as gay? If you didn't know you were gay then that's fine cause you properly were just questioning your sexuality but if you knew then it's unfair cause you'd be deceiving the girl which is selfish.
legit thought gay conversion therapy meant turning the person gay through therapy for second 💀
That would for sure not be allowed in a country like the USA 😭😭
@@kayr1019 some people say that they’ve turned more gay BECAUSE of conversion therapy 💀🤷🏽♂️😭
@Johannes its physically and mentally impossible to "turn" someone gay, as you are born with it. so if that kind of thing existed, it would be just as bad as conversion therapy (not that being gay is bad) but it would aim to do the same thing : try to change something about yourself that cant be changed.
@@thatonemetalhead_666 What proof is there that it cannot be changed though? Is there research that shows (gender) attraction is fully based on nature and none of it on nurture? If so I'd like to know, feel free to send links to research papers
especially since one of the main reason homophobia exists is due to religions condemning and criminalizing homosexuality.
Anytime i hear someone say they don't want to gay it's always because of Christianity.
These topics are challenging to compromise on for a society so diverse in nature. Huge props to the participants in this video to be willing to be vulnerable discuss these topics despite differing views. These discussions are important to help all sides better understand each other. Hopefully in doing so, everyone can learn to coexist in relative harmony, agreeing to disagree, but extending compassion to one another.
I agree
After watching the video. I feel like he has a wealth of experiences and being aware of how he feels and felt led to complex thoughts. Thoughts that may seem hypocritical if not explained to the fullest. I would have appreciated if I saw the full conversations he had with everyone not just the "highlights", or to be more accurate, the selectively determined clips. There were a lot of points that were not be fleshed out and I would have loved to here the back and forth on those points. There was one exchange with the white woman where she raised a question and I would have liked to hear his response but it cut to the next clip before he responded.
O he has very mush not accepted himself and still dealing with issues that he has to ort out. An issue that is ageless. I met gay guys who figure that out when there 70 or 80 which I'm half tehy did but it took so long due to the social and religious pressures involved
Chris literally just hates himself.
The way he grew up fucked his mind up. Being gay is not a choice, it’s just how you are. Conversion therapy is one of the most harmful things to lgbtq+ youth. They are forced to go there by religious institutions.
He chose to go. So if he doesn’t choose to accept his homosexual tendencies, he hate’s himself? That’s a bit low
He made a choice. He doesn't hate himself. It's like hating the fact that you drink a lot and deciding to go to therapy to sort it. He's gay, he knows that he's gay, and he doesn't like it. Period.
@@dantaegarcia1778 it’s a lack of self love. it implies that he believes there’s something wrong with him. He hates a part of himself and that’s shown throughout the video.
@@dukeokpara3606 you cannot compare those things because being gay is not bad. you cannot fix yourself from being gay.
Woah he was brainwashed so much, he needs to leave that church
Why?
You can be gay and be a Christian.. you don't need to be one or the other
Having same-sex attraction is something one has no control over and therefore is obviously allowed in christianity. Living a gay lifestyle is a major sin in Christianity though.
Yup
@@binodtharu1236 it's not allowed neither prohibited. The bible only mentions about same sex relationship, but not attraction. From the same root, Islam says that maintaining a same sex relationship is a sin.
Which means it's not a sin to be gay, but it is a sin to do gay sex or promoting this lifestyle as an ideal one
@@Nyconbr I agree. I mean its not something he is doing, so it is neither allowed nor prohibited. (Lusting after people is prohibited tho.)
@@NyconbrI also have the same interpretation of the bible
i feel bad for him… he thinks he’s content but in reality hes just lost
I really wish we could just accept each other's differences. I grew up in the church i loved it. But just being gay resulted in a lot of rejection from my friends. I would love to still be in a church but this one aspect about me created this divide with the people i loved just because I'm attracted to men
i actually feel really bad he sounds really confused but seems so sweet i hope he finds happiness
One thing I’m aware of is that sexuality is just a part on being human and alive, what happens behind closed doors need not be anyone else’s concern other than you and your partner. But at the same time, if you push it under the carpet or wish to change a tendency which comes so naturally to you and is not in your control, all that it will do is torment you and make you suffer.
He looks like he's in so much pain, especially when shown next to the pastor, who's very clearly at peace.
I think it's one thing to go to therapy to help explore your sexuality or put some pieces together but it's another to go to therapy based on the belief that you need to be changed...
I loved this episode. I liked the tension that sparked in the conversation about these topics that are so prevalent in our society and how they should be viewed.
No talk about healthy relationships, having a family etc. Which obviously gay people also do. Just talk about "agendas," etc. Jubilee should do a redo on this topic.
It’s not going to feel the same as having a family with a biological woman, it’s still a completely different experience.
I (personally) feel like Jubilee is choosing interviewers (the person being questioned) to cause more shock/arguments/attention rather than how it felt like when they used to to educate and inform.
I think conversations and “arguments” can be important as we can learn through them and seeing viewpoints from different people, but at the same time I feel conflicted on the casting in multiple recent videos as I feel like it’s almost to push more shares for how controversial they can be and farm views.
Idk, anyone else?
For sure. I used to be a big fan of the channel because it felt thoughtful and like the producers really wanted people on all sides of an issue to have their mind opened. Lately it just seems like they are becoming like every other clickbait information source.
I feel the same way, this video was just recommended to me and it’s pride month so I thought it would be positive…. it was just confusing and sad to see
The 1946 “Bible translation error” of the word “homosexual” he is referencing has been disproved. The original Hebrew and Greek translation is “men who lie with men” Also that is not the only place homosexuality is referenced in the Bible, so even if that singular word was mistranslated, it would be irrelevant, because homosexuality is condemned elsewhere in the Bible. Please research before believing what you hear, there are many scholars who researched and disproved that 1946 documentary that is trying to spread misinformation about the Bible.
It's so sad how he doesn't realise that he needs an open and acceptive therapist, not converting :(
he seems to be doing fine, maybe he knows what he needs more than you
@@sirmister9099 no, i don't think he is doing fine :( He doesn't accept and love himself, and the analogs he talks about are toxic and full of self-hatred. He needs someone he can trust and a therapist who accpets him and helps him grow.
@@Lili-ee7fuhe's just an homophobe
@@Lili-ee7fu Dude who cares if you don't love yourself
The person who asked about dont say gay made a hilariously confused face when he was talking about how he doesn't want to silence therapists. And that face is exactly how I feel about this guy.
Yo I feel bad for this dude, he’s in total denial and is clearly struggling with it. What a sad life to live.
Someone should have asked "are you happy? Do you hate yourself?" So he can answer for himself without 1.5k people in the comments accusing him of self hatred.
When he talks about how there's too much focus on labels and too many rules assigned to people of different sexualities........and then goes on about how gayness should be suppressed. He was so close to the point and then made the most absurd conclusion.
He also went from being a regular gay dude, to suppressing it to two years in therapy, and then releasing all that pent up frustration in gay sex work. And he still thinks that converstion therapy works? (Nothing wrong with sex work btw, but just a bizarre contrast which shows how starvation leads to bingeing.)
His answers are so great and insightful. Especially what he says about "Love is love". We need to hear more people like him in society. Also, stop demonizing conversion therapy. The times where it was electro shocks and lobotomy are long gone. And a lot of people freely choose to go there. Banning it is not to help the people concerned, but to push an ageanda on our society. And this has to stop.
Do you want to be gay and act on that? Fine, I respect that. But please also respect that some people don't want to go the same way.
The talk with the gay minister was very civil and mature whereas it seemed like most of the others (especially the girl the the glasses) came in with negative or hostile energy
No they didn’t? How the heck do want them to react? He basically implied that there was nothing wrong with conversion therapy and it’s homophobic tendencies. How are you defending him?
@@itsnatemate7697 What did I say that defended him? This is exactly the hostile energy I'm talking about.
The thing for me is. People keep saying the option should be open for those who want it. But is it really ever a choice if fundamentally the reason why you are pushed into it is that your surroundings tell you it is inherently wrong. If you are constantly told it is wrong and a sin, you start to think that, but does that mean you still have a free choice? Or if you feel like you have to do it because you want to be normal and this clearly stems from the fact that being gay is considered abnormal and might place you in a difficult position in life is that really a choice? To me, this seems like you are consciously and subconsciously pressured to do so not because it is something you freely choose, but because in a way society holds a metaphorical gun against your head.
nah this dude is insane like not him comparing lgbt people to abusive and toxic relationships...?
It's happening though
@@Jeremy-wp4yh Yea based on your other comment you’re an active homophobe 🤦🏽. Toxic and abusive relationships happen regardless of sexuality
@@Jeremy-wp4yh
What's happening?
He's been through a lot. Don't attack him by calling him 'insane' have pity for him and educate.
@@totalwartimelapses6359 Toxic gay relationships.. forcing ideas instead accepting the way people are
can someone tell him that: he can make a family as a gay. he can call his husband with "wife" word if he wants if he needs if he desires if he dreams as desperatly. he can adopt kids, animals for family too; he can love and protect his formed family ( he needs experience about 'love is love' and he needs to learn ' kids are kids ' for family forming too. but first he needs to be ready for love and care someone but he expecting to get rough like and excitement for all the time and this is exhausting; atleast for me). i can't believe he wants a family. he wants just exciting different and new men sex experiences and he is blaming lgbt+ rights, feelings, people etc... he loves his self as with his satyriasis and he has dreams about tradinational families. also i don't like this word but i have to admit he is a "boomer". i think he has emotion hungry so much maybe love pain or love emptiness maybe guilty feelings idk... yes he needs self love but also he needs confidence and he needs reliable and same tasted person for new experiences and adventures about his family dream... but atleast he is alive after id crisis, therapies, believes; thanks for goodness...
Actually I think he points made a lot of sense. I just feel like jubilee cut a lot so we didn’t fully get to understand what he was saying. Also I don’t think he and other people were on the same page as definitions of a lot of things. Ex: how do you define conversion therapy. Cuz I think he’s just thinking of his experience of talk therapy while other people are thinking of shock therapy
Also I feel like it was unclear at the end if he just didn’t want to associate with the “gay community” / label or if he would stop having gay relationships / gay sex or if he would just stop thinking about this as much but still do gay stuff if it comes up. He talks about changing his sexuality but also expresses he doesn’t like labels.
This was a roller coaster I still have no clue what he actually thinks
He sounds like he doesn't really know what he thinks or wants, sometimes it's hard to find yourself.
I loved the diversity of thought in this episode
I hope anyone watching this who is questioning their sexuality knows that there is absolutely nothing wrong with you. If you want to express your sexuality, and you’re in a safe environment to do so, DO IT. You are not “sinning”, you are not broken - never feel bad about who you are. 🌈✨
ok but it's illegal lol
@@dunyacaliskan7495 what's illegal? lmao
@@mariats28 relationship with little girl
@@dunyacaliskan7495 and what does this have to do with the comment?
@@mariats28 can't express sexuality
8:48 my face the whole time he spoke. I admire them for keeping their calm the whole time.
I liked his conversation with the pastor the most. I think that's where he felt the most validated.