The Dutch Work the Fewest Hours in the World
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- Опубліковано 18 тра 2024
- Did you know the Netherlands has the shortest working week? The average Dutch person works only 4 days per week, but they are one of the wealthiest countries in the world.
In this video, let's explore the Dutch part-time working culture and why they work so few hours...
⏰ CHAPTERS:
00:00 Intro
02:02 🇳🇱 The Netherlands - The Data
04:28 ⌛️ Why work part-time?
05:09 ⏰ Time over money
06:56 🐣 Day(child)care is expensive
09:17 💶 High taxes
1040: Ending
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😁 WHO AM I?
I'm David, a Californian living in Amsterdam. I make videos about life in the Netherlands, hiking/traveling, and the Camino de Santiago.
🔸 If you live in the Netherlands, I'd love to hear your story and interview you.
Email: hidavidwen@gmail.com
What are your thoughts about (Dutch) part-time work culture?
I don't understand how a single person can afford a private sector house or even a purchase if alone and working part time. But I guess working full time is also barely enough and people don't have enough motivation. Tax brackets are too low and percentages are too high. Great video.
@@TheSimArchitect oh yeahh buying a house is a whole different story…and the part time thing may work if you are a couple but as a single person, it’s quite hard to in a city (unless you share a flat)
I was thinking if there’s a way for me to also work ‘part time’ but it’s hard to survive if you want to live in a city like Amsterdam as a single person
The motivation thing is true…because of taxes, I’ve learned that people aren’t motivated by making more money in NL (which is the opposite of the US). Even myself!
@@TheSimArchitect It's all a question of priorities. If your priority is having as much money as you can, this is not your system. I your priority is having a life, this works fine.
@hidavidwen I can't remember if i gave a remark on your 6jes mentality video. But now after making this video, can you see that it all fits in with being content. Instead of always the need to do,know or own more than what you have now? Ofcourse we want to do it excellent but there comes a time when other things, family and loved ones are more important. ❤😊
Working less hours does not mean that the Dutch don't work very hard. They just don't need so many hours to do their job.
I live in the Netherlands. I am British born. WHEN the Dutch work, they do so very efficiently.
Hmm, the company I work for, in the Netherlands, has as its core business to help organizations to work more efficiently and effectively. To be more aware about their goals and to be more mindful and self-steering regarding the goals of an organization.
I am a software developer though, so my experience is in that area, but a lot of my colleagues would disagree that Dutch people work very efficiently. Or maybe they do, but definitely not always doing the things that are really necessary for what an organization wants to achieve.
But that probably everywhere around the world.
@@rikschoonbeek Well as dutchy i know the dutch always complain things can be better and more efficient .
There is also a saying if you want to screw your boss do exactly what they say .
As ships engineer , who needs to work with software Integrated maintenance and control Systems. And have a ship designed by nit wits .that look at how fast a ship can be build , but not how to be operated efficient . You get some realy angry sailors and an angry engineer is one you must avoid at all cost .
@@rikschoonbeekI completely agree with you there. The principles of the agile manifesto seem to directly contradict Dutch values.
@@DryBones111 Can you elaborate on that? The 4 principles are: "Individuals and interactions over processes and tools. Working software over comprehensive documentation. Customer collaboration over contract negotiation. Responding to change over following a project plan." Which ones contradict Dutch values, according to you?
"First I was young and poor. After years of hard work, I am no longer young."
😂
😂😂
The dutch have a few basic cultural items ingrained in their DNA
1. Planning
2 .Time keeping .
3 . Efficiency .
4 . Direct communication .
And if the grandparents want to see the little ones more often, they can have them on Tuesday or Thursday... and spoil them.
I like this formula.I don't understand why I should take a month to finish work I can do in 20 hours if I have all the resources to complete it.😮I struggle with this now.
5. Telling the sea to stay away XD
Hahaha yeap I can see all of that, thanks for sharing!
@@theplasmawolfTrue, True🤣
The secret is efficiency. When I was working in The Netherlands (60s and 70s) you could walk into an office with 5-20 people and be greeted by absolute silence, no people standing around the coffeemachine or just sitting on each other's desk chatting. Working in absolute silence and concentration is the definition of efficiency.
Thanks for sharing, yeah all about efficiency!
I think "working hard" and "working a lot of time" are different thing. The Dutch work hard, just not for as much time.
Thanks for sharing this
I worked in the Netherlands for almost a year and I could see that, that work-life balance is really nice, I still miss it.
Thanks Claudio. Where did you move back to?
@@hidavidwen to my country Chile 😀
@@claudioaliaga3293 on my bucket list of places to visit! 🇨🇱
In the US everyting is about money, in the Netherlands it's about, we work to live, not live to work. I don't need a bigger car then my neighbour.
Even in Germany, they are complaining about work force shortage. I thing the Dutch way is the way to go
Thanks :) There’s a workforce shortage in many places…but yeah The Dutch labor force is still very active and the economy is still quite productive
@@hidavidwen Efficiency, management listens to the workfloor and 'cuts the crap' when it's not efficient. Do less, but better, in less time.
No small talk, next costumer... Thanks, bye!
Sounds to me like we're doing too much. Maybe we need to slow down.
Dutchie here and I work 3,5 days a week. Like the woman in the video said: I earn more than enough to enjoy life to the fullest and I love my “me-time” and time to travel with friends.
Thanks for sharing!
Then what is this political talk about then about "bestaanszekerheid" ? If we all have it so good?
@@HermanWillems well not everyone has it good. But I personally do :)
Your penultimate few words are critical here "...and the system supports it...". One of the key reasons we have decided to move back to NL. Great video once again 🙂
Thanks David! Yeah…lately I’ve realized how important the system is with people all around me having gone through stuff like layoffs to burnout…there’s a system that protects people
Good luck with the move, would be keen to hear how the adjustment goes!
The tax incentives are the main reason. In some instances, you would be less secure if you worked more because certain benefits would fall away. Personally, I believe it's a deeply flawed system that needs fixing. It should be possible to live while working half-time but punishing people who want to work more with higher taxes and no more benefits isn't fair.
True words… simply subsidizing part time… work more and you will loose benefits and pay more taxes… a recent study discovered this…
Thanks for sharing. What benefits do you lose if you work more?
@@hidavidwen Rent benefits, healthcare benefits, childcare benefits, and even energy-cost benefits.
Lubach also made a video on this subject about a month ago called "Werken kost geld". It's worth a watch, translated subs into English are available.
This is highly dependent/relative to a person's situation
@@hidavidwen - 4 to be exact, health care allowance, rental allowance, childcare allowance and child-related budget…. All go down if your salary goes up…
In the US you really are what you do for a job. Good luck to em! Anyway, I'm off tomorrow (Friday) have a nice working weekend 😂
Thanks for sharing, enjoy!
The Dutch work so little because they are not fools. You never get the important things in life out of work; no job offers quality family time, time for your hobbies, time to just watch the paint dry.
When has a job given you time to spend with your spouse?
As long as I can pay my rent, my food and drink and have enough money to pay for all the other costs of life, I don't need more money so I can save for "later".
We don't do "Live healthy, don't drink, don't smoke, exercise much and die anyway."
Thanks for sharing
You are so right! The last years before I retired I worked 2 days a week. I could live from my wages (as a civil servant = not well payed). Compared to the Germans we live in smaller houses, drive smaller cars. We don't have to show of that we are rich. It is enough when I know how rich I am. Time is money. I had years that I had nine (yes 9) weeks of holiday. Nothing could make me more happy. The Nehterlands is more or less in the centre of Europe. In 6 hours I am in Berlin, or in 8 in Copenhagen, by car. I traveled weeks in France meeting so many nice, friendly and helpfull people. I wish everybody could have a live like that.
Thanks for sharing! It’s taken me some time to really appreciate time (well getting older does that to one too!)…and that you can be in a society where you don’t need to compete in order to survive. Time is truly the most valuable resource!
I sometimes make the joke that the Dutch are lazy and greedy. Do you agree that most Dutch don't like to spend more money then necessesary.? And I don't have to show of that I have money, a big car or whatever, bigger then my neighbour. That makes live much easier. I am retired now and still learning/studying. And ! be a blessing to other people. There is one thing I don't want to be : an old complainant. Last week I drove bicycle to the supermarket. I have a walking problem. A young lad, kicking a football with friends, saw me and asked "Do you need any help?" Yhat made my day ;-) I like to live in a country where this happpens. @@hidavidwen
Working more cost more money (Taxes and so on). That's also a reason a lot of people work less.
Yepppp I understand and appreciate that concept now!
I find your thumbnail to be misleading. There is no official 4 day work week. Working part-time is a separate topic.
dunno, i know quite alot of people who work 4 or even 3 days a week.
@trytorang Because they work parttime pr for a company that offers such hours. Not because there is a national policy, agreement or tendency to have a 4 day workweek.
Thanks for sharing your opinion. I talked to people who worked 3/4/5 days with different hours. What I want to highlight is the flexibility of being able to work less than 5 days which is the standard in most places around the world…
How would you design the thumbnail?
@@hidavidwen I understand what you were going for, it's just that people might get the wrong impression.
I'd change the text to 'part-time workweek' , rather than '4 day workweek'.
I have a 4 day work week the place where i work at is closed on Friday and the weekends.
Very good video David. You kept it in the right context from a neutral (and not American) prospective. Well done!
I read an article quite a few years ago, how human kind is focusing too much on the quantity of life instead of the quality. That article was in a totally different context, explaining how we physically trying so hard to extend our lives to the max while we are forgetting that those years should be enjoyable and easy to go by in relation to the health care and finances of each individual. No use, and I totally agree, to keep extending your life when sick or out of funds just because you are want to make it to a 100, while the years you should be enjoying yourself, the funds are saved and a life extending diet is followed to be able to add a few years and forget about the quality altogether.
Thanks for the kind words. I try to be objective and subjective when I add my own stories/opinions so I’m glad to hear.
Yeah I’ve learned to appreciate quality more now. I also know those of us who do (can) are in a state of comfort. I grew up in a not-so-rich family…we didn’t have much…so it was always about quantity (when you don’t have much, you want more)…so I can understand both sides and how life circumstances can change the way you think
@@hidavidwen Correct, but you still have to learn to approach Dutch society from 0 and not from 1 (where the assumption is made the US is the standard and example). And, in your case, don't go look online for data and dodgy websites to confirm your misconception or misperception.
Like I said before, on the www, you can find "proof" a circle is actually square.
And my parents also lived from paycheck to paycheck, that is a non-argument in The Netherlands. It works in a consumption driven society like the US but not here. So you make the same mistake, using the US as the standard of approach. So start your reasoning from 0....
I find it great. Because of the work life balance.
Yes they know how to live life with balance!
Great video bud. Looking forward to meeting you.
Amazing video, as a Dutchie im happy we value time more than money and still have great economy etc.
🙌
Great video.
Thanks!
I have 8 weeks to use for my vacation.
I use my houres for twice vacation ( 5 weeks ), and the rest for other things ( fishing ).
8 weeks??? Where do you work
@@hidavidwen In the Netherlands in a fabric working with metal! ( Perfox )
I'm Dutch, and i work full time a(40 hours and sometimes more). It's the standard to work full time and not parttime
Thanks for sharing
I love working part-time. Since working 4 days a week, I'm much happier and less tired, so more productive. The weekend is increased by 50%! I can't imagine going back to working 5 days a week.
All this is really very nice and happy, but what do you all do? I don't think a factory worker, a waiter or a garbage collector can work part-time and live the good life. When I came to Holland I was working part-time as a waiter and I was literally starving, I didn't have money to buy a shirt or pay for public transport. Let's face it, in Holland you can only make a good living as a part-time worker if you are highly qualified and highly paid, and this can be done almost anywhere in the world. Living in the Netherlands costs a lot of money and this part-time thing seems to me to be a big bullshit for a select few.
@@smuggler9837 well, I have put a lot of effort in my studies and I'm still studying. So if you invest some time in education (not necessarily higher education), I'm sure that you can also work part-time. And it's also about what you need. I don't need a big house, I don't have a car, my cell phone is over five years old, but I enjoy spending time with friends and 'free' things like walking, cycling.
Thanks for sharing…living the dream of many!
time is the only hard currency
Best video ever 👌🏾💯
4 days!
I live in the Netherlands and work 24 hours and still have a good enough salary and it makes me so happy😊. Because now i can do more of my hobby's and do some design projects for NGO's and volunteer more in teaching volleybal. Also less of my money goes to taxes. So it doesn't really makes sense too much to work more.
Thanks for sharing…wow I want to work 24 hours…how did you find 24 hours job?
may I ask you what you do for a living?
Having worked in The Netherlands for a bit I want to argue the point about efficiency. The Dutch consensus culture may be great for the success large infrastructure projects, but for the industry I work in, tech, it means that nothing gets done. A lot of modern work environments can benefit from a "let's give it a go and adjust" approach but that kind of attitude is hard to find here.
Thanks for sharing this
I feel like the odd 60-year old man as I chose the career I have, love what I do professionally, and have all the 'things' I need. My health is good and I would like to continue to work part-time until 70. Yes, based on taxes and other considerations it may not always make sense financially but if the working conditions are good, working a bit longer seems like a no brainer to me. We generally live longer and having more saved is better than less. The culture and policies of the Netherlands encourage citizens to make smarter decisions (i.e. I don't need a $75K BMW to be happy). Another great story David.
Thanks for sharing your story. Yeah working can actually play a very important role in our lives if it’s purposeful and fulfilling. I think I would continue to work or volunteer as well even if I didn’t need to
Free time, is worth more than 10K extra per year. Or in other words, it's possible to have a decent living with working only 80% of others.
It's not the goal to get rich as hell, you need time to enjoy your income.
Yes agreed 100%
Thanks for the video. I am currently transitioning from Germany to NL and I was shocked by the childcare costs. We really have to figure out how to cope with these costs and or with reduced work hours. And we are already part time working in Germany, however in Germany childcare is almost free, in NL it can easily cost 1000€. I guess it is also so high because they only need child care until 4 years when the child goes to school which is free.
Depending on your income, child care is subsidized. I agree however that not every family can afford to pay for child care every day of the working week. That is what drives the 1.5 job per household model where most of the time, one parent is at home.
@@francoiskeulen I really think the main reason we don't do full time child care is because women were late to enter the workforce and the ideal of small kids being at home with their mother is deeply ingrained in us. Taking your kid to child care is seen as a last resort being at home best, with grandparents second best.
Thanks for sharing…yeah I don’t know how people raise 2+ kids without help from family….
@@hidavidwenwe did have some help from family but that was vice versa. My kids had on day a week at my sister's and we her daughter with us once a week. That reduced costs for child care, but it was also a more relaxed day for the kids in stead of having that extra stressful day at childcare. They liked childcare, but it did wear them out each time.
Your videos has made me really consider moving to the netherlands. Could you maybe make a "guide" or things you would do as an american trying to move to the netherlands and finding work there. I have tons of questions that might be answered in those videos for my specific situation. I didnt want to email with questions out of respect, but i think a video like that would do well for maybe others thinking about transitioning
Please don’t
We have a labor shortages so please do! 😂
Thanks for the kind words and for the suggestion, what kind of questions do you have?
(Can’t say I can answer them all now but would be helpful for me to know!)
Can email them to hidavidwen@gmail.com
No wonder they're happier and more fulfilled.
Since July i work 32 hr i always worked fulltime but now that im almost 50 now. I realized that time is the real shortage in live.... And i have a cheap house, bought in the 90ties😊
Thanks for sharing, I’m starting to realize that too
Dude, if I could work part-time and not worry about going bankrupt from health bills, I would easily choose that over full-time.
Yeah I know what you mean!
Yeah Im a Dutch entrepreneur and I work 3 days a week.
I work for myself because I hate inefficiency, so that's solved 😂
I do not earn less, actually I earn more and yes I do volunteering: helping a little boy who's mom is too sick to raise him well.
I'm a single mom btw. 🤩
You have no idea but you gave a boost a inspiration when I needed it :) glad to hear you’re able to do that as an entrepreneur!
@@hidavidwen I have been for 14 years and I have loved every minute of it! ❤️
My work has a standard 38hr full time contract. 3 young dads work those hours in 4 days rather than 5, giving them a 3 day weekend. The only overtime i work is to maximize my holidays, I can accrue 2 weeks extra through overtime if i want. This is in fabrication, so our prescence at work directly impacts productivity.
Yep you can have flex hours as well , working 10 hrs a day and having 3 days of or 9 hrs a day starting half an hr early and leaving half an hr later.
Thanks for sharing
We as Dutch don't work to get rich. "Me time" is more important I also believe that les s work is less stress witch is better health.
Thanks for sharing..yeah I’ve realized it, I come from two cultures (US and China) where the emphasis is to get rich..so it’s a refreshingly new perspective (that I appreciate)
In a lot of branches 32 hour is FT. Where I work 36 is FT, but 38 (which I do) and 40 is also possible.
For family’s, the state benefits for child daycare are better when working PT. Since it would literally cost you money otherwise. Because 3 FT working parents would have to pay for daycare the amount of 80 working hours.
I'm a 34 year old man living in the Netherlands. I saved up 2 years of expenses by working 38 hours a week. And now I work 22,5 hours a week. Value my time more, than making more money.
Wow thanks for sharing your experience! And that you can save enough by working 38 hours
@@hidavidwenI suspect he is a civil servant, they get time for (over)time. At least my brother does. He is a civil servant at the Justice department and has a contract for 36 hours, works 40 hours and can save the 4hours overtime a week in a kind of savings account. He then takes 8 weeks summer vacation a year and 2 weeks at Christmas and New Year. I work 40 hours a week in construction and get a lot of vacation days, but I don’t have the royal ruling my brother has. Overtime isn’t payed (up to 1 hour a day or 5 hours a week) or exchanged for time off and when work is busy, you’ll have to put in an extra effort in hours and pace. In slow times you’ll work the regular 40 hours a week.
Hey David, great video as always. But there is a detail in the tables that I don't understand. How it is possible that having 2 children in daycare cost more than double than having only one? Is this a mistake or I am missing something? Thanks
Thanks! Not a mistake…that’s because the government gives you more subsidies for the 1st kid…every kid after…it’s a lower % (There’s a table in there somewhere that shows)
Time is the ultimate non renewable resource
Yes! So simple…yet such a hard concept for most people to truly understand (taking me some time but I’m trying to get there)
Great level of detail in this video. I'm shocked that the prices more than doubled if you have a 2nd child in daycare. I wonder how this affects birth rates?
Thanks for the kind words…oh yea I was thinking about that too…I don’t know but good question
Wij hebben het gewoon heel goed in Nederland. En dat moeten we gewoon ook zo houden.
Vergelijken met de Verenigde Staten of het Verenigde Koninkrijk en de rest van Europa , doen we het heel goed.
Ik ben trots op mijn land, en dat mag iedereen van mij weten.
🇳🇱👏
No one ever said: "I wish i had spent more time in the office"...
Wise words that no one ever said
As I put it when people ask me why I work 4 days: "Time is worth a lot more to me than money." Also I have worked 5 days and it sucked by Thursday my energy was low, my focus minimal and I was just taking more time, making more mistakes it was just not efficient. Now I have the Wednesday free and that gives me a day to recharge, do some household work, getting some shopping done etc. Meaning that the other work days in the evening all I really have to worry about is dinner. Consider most jobs are energy drains this is a way to manage it for me and I am in a position where 4 days is enough for me to cover my needs.
Thanks for sharing your perspective
actualy there are flex hours where you can work 36 -40 hours , and still work those in a 4 day work week . working 9 or 10 hrs a day .
I am born and raised in the The Netherlands and currently live in the Bay Area. Let me know if you ever want to meet up. I'd be down to meet.
Thanks! How’s life in the Bay for ya?
I feel sorry for you.
What's it like living between/next homeless encampments?
A shitty and way to expensive healthcare system?
Living in a so called free country it isn't that has a crumbling infrastructure?
Where the cost of living is way to high?
You have been sold a lie unfortunately.
California and America as a whole is turning in to a shithole period.
Is our country the Netherlands perfect no it isn't but it's still way much better than America the so called land of the free it's not far from it no offense😊
Heel veel groeten vanuit Nederland🇳🇱
Quantity does not mean quality. Many studies have indicated that the ideal working time is around 6 hours per day.
A standard working week in the Netherlands is 40 hours per week but many do work more hours per week. Not that much less as 45 hours per week.
Also over time is not always paid out in money could also be in extra time off.
People who work part-time are primarily women who have a partner who is the main source of income and the women work less to take care of most likely the children ( is cheaper than sends the kids to a day care).
Thanks for sharing 🙏
As long as in the US healthcare is paid for by the employer instead of the employee, who by the way can be sacked any moment without any further notice or explaining, people will try to please their boss by working overtime
In America the employer has all the leverage, the employee has none.
We do things different here and we can because we are one.
Slavery isn't gone jet.
Yeah that’s a big one…healthcare
Also something considering to mention:
There are people who have cracked the system over here
They work less hours (sometimes they don't even work) so they get benefits by the goverment
With thise benefits they make more money then when they would work more hours
And of course those benefits are payed by the fulltimers ;)
Thanks, yeah I’ve heard of these people who have cracked the system!
This is mostly for couples. If you are single, you have to work that 40 hours. Most people i see that work 4 days are people who are couples.
Thanks for sharing Herman, you have a point
That’s not true. I worked 3 days for years and i’m alone. Just live within your means!
ps a little joke:
So you want a day off?
Do you actually realize what you are asking?
A year has 365 days of work.
There are 52 weeks in a year in which you already have 2 days off, which leaves 261 days.
You do not work 16 hours per day, which is equivalent to 170 days, so there are still 91 days left.
Every day you spend 30 minutes drinking coffee, per year that is 23 days, leaving 68 days left.
In addition, you have an hour's lunch break per day, which is equivalent to 46 days. This leaves 22 days to work.
Normally you are sick 2 days a year, so there are still 20 days left.
We have 5 mandatory holidays per year, which reduces the number of working days to 15.
We will generously give you 14 days of holiday, leaving only 1 day left to work.
AND SO YOU WANT THAT ONE DAY OFF???
What really helps is that we dont have a ridiculous rule that noone can go home before the boss goes home, which i've seen in both taiwan and the us. In the Netherlands there is a: "i dont care when you do it, as long as you finish it in time" attitude. This gives the employee more responsibility but also trust. Furthermore you are allowed to voice your ideas, concerns and critisism. Dutch leaders tend to be open minded, can put their ego aside and are comfortable delegating responibilities. This greatly helps efficiency.
Thanks for sharing, makes sense :)
I would say the opposite of the working culture in The Netherlands is probably that of Japan. And thats exactly what it is, culture. What I mean by that is that it has little to do with actual productivity and output. Over there its just not done to leave before the boss does, so youll often find people hanging around the office untill 7 or 8 pm, doing pretty much nothing, other than being polite. Same as in the US where you are supposed to check in during your holidays to show that you are involved with the company, even when you have time off.
In The Netherlands this would actually be considered really weird... Like you have no life or are some kind of bootlicker or something. To have a thriving active social life outside of the workplace is actually seen as a very good thing that can help you during your carreer. Extra curricular activities are really important on your CV, like being an amateur photographer or being good at some sport, play a musical instrument or whatever. The fact that you are bettering yourself as a person in general, even if, or maybe especially if, its not directly work related, can really be seen as a massive asset to the company.
Thanks for sharing!
I work 4 days of nine hours as a trainmechanic. It's so much better.
Thanks for sharing, that’s a nice schedule!
Nah, it really is class dependent.
I know people with a " normal job" who both need to work full time, but my best friend who has a great cosy job due to finishing university can work part time.
This also is probably depending on where in the country you live, De Randstad is way different than the provinces, in income, types of jobs and cultural.
Thanks for sharing
Taxes are such that work doesn’t pay. In fact there are thresholds of negative real disposable income when working more hours. Ridiculous but true. Furthermore on the higher end, progressive tax punishes doing more hours. And as always politically on every recession people vote for taxing high income even more. So it is a balance between work/income that favors more towards working less.
The benefit is that the economy drives on productivity gains. Maybe that’s why the Netherlands is so efficient.
Thanks for sharing
Well i am Dutch. 44 years of age and always worked 39-46 hours a week ever since i was 21. From 15 years of age a mimimum of 15 hours a week. But it is true many people work part-time.
Thanks for sharing your experience
My wife and I are from aan far earlier generation. When I was in school, my dad would bring in the money and my mother would (wisely) spend it. After my mandatory military service we got our first jobs, both with the same company. Fixed contract, 40 hour work week, no shifts, 25 days paid vacation, etc. We didn't know what we earned per hour. We had a fixed salary. Part-time? Why? What would we do with the remaining time? We also had flex-time. Get in between 7 and 9 am and leave between 5 and 7 pm. We would routinely get in at 8 am and leave at 5 pm. Lunch from 12 am till 2 pm. We were never late. Were we efficient? I think so. Child care was irrelevant in our case. Go out for dinner and on vacation whenever we wanted. No baby-sitters. Often just spur-of-the-moment decisions. Enjoy life.
How old are you? What you do for a living?
Thanks for sharing. Yeah all about efficiency!
As a Dutchman working and residing in SE Asia I can only say I am happy I no longer live and work in ‘doe maar normaal’ country and took the opportunity to be an entrepeneur in Asia, without having to continuously explain why work can be so fulfilling in itself.
Thanks for sharing…yeah I’ve heard both sides to ‘doe normaal’…hope you’re enjoying Asia!
I am getting a 20-hour-per-week job, 'cause former Speaker McCarthy wants me too. And -- I did not have to, but I have had several part-time jobs throughout my adult life.
Nice hope it works out!
See it like this. Raising a family. Doing extra work for others, and caring for friends and family to create a better society and working on your own (mental) health is just as hard work as the job you get paid for. And obviously it translates back to numbers at the finish. The economy is also about perception and choices. Start thinking creatively and you might end up with the dutch economy ;p
Thanks for sharing :)
The law of diminishig marginal utility applies to labour too. There often really isn't that much more that you can get done in 5 days that couldn't be done in four, and when you go over 5 days productivity per hour often drops steeply. You can imitate the hours made by high ambition high energy people, but that doesn't make you one of them. Let's be fair, most people simply don't have 60 or 80 productive hours a week in them, their employer is better off with letting them rest and recover in hours he doesn't have to pay for.
True thanks for sharing. There are studies that show productivity drops big time after 50ish hours
And having rest is super important
Not only the Dutch think differently than Americans.
Before retirement I worked as an engineer 40 hours a week in Germany. Though I had 6 weeks of vacation I would have opted for more free time instead of more money if it would have been possible (unionized contract).
What is the point of working all the time without vacations and leisure?
True point, thanks!
As a Dutch person, I want to note: I didn't have a choice, 36 hours is normal and was actually in my "CAO" (collective labor agreement).
Oh I didn’t know it was forced, thanks for sharing. Do you work 9 hrs x 4 days?
My experience(US) I have so much distaste for act like your working corporate culture. I would rather have more time for myself and get back to work to actually work and do it well/efficiently. I wonder how hours and contracts work in the NL
Thanks
Biggest reason is without the extra costs for working more it literally makes less to work more like 40 hours makes you 2.2k for example 50hours should be 2.65k right? Wrong for the 10hours extra you only get payed 40%
Thanks for sharing! That makes sense
When I was young my father worked full time and my mother was a housewife. My father earned enough money for a “standard family” with 2 children. Fortunately, due to emancipation, women got better educated and they logically demanded their place in the labour market. Even nowadays, mothers still spend more hours to take care of the children (it should be 50-50 though). Women’s participation in the labour market, means that a family may have more working hours nowadays than the full time working week of the past. Economically it still means that per family there are more “hours of income” for a “standard family” than in the past…. In the Netherlands it seems that income per hour hasn’t been “devaluated” like in other countries.
Thanks for sharing this, yes!
The first time I went to the Netherlands, there were many Dutch people of Indonesian descent, including me, this is because it has a long history, after Indonesia became independent from Dutch colonial rule, the remaining Dutch people were expelled to their own country. If you go to Indonesia you will only see Dutch people as tourists, not as local residents.
Thanks for sharing
The United States should have had a 3-day workweek by 2000.
How much unnecessary work is created by planned obsolescence? Then the economists forget to talk about the depreciation of automobiles and other durable consumer goods since Sputnik.
Since I went from 40hrs per week of work to 32 hrs I can say I feel more rested and happy. I am glad my wife works about 26hrs as well giving us a good income.
Child care is indeed expensive and got so high now we decided to drop a day. You do get the financial support, but thus comes 1 to 2 weeks prior to our wages and will be used to pay bills that come in the mean time. Thus it puts a lot of stress on the day my wage comes because my wife's wage is (for now) still every 4 weeks, resulting in always calling in and telling 'your bill is payed one week later'. That is annoying on both ends. More for me hearing m: ' can't you do now? ' This because most who work an office job do not - and cannot - know that not everyone gets payed around the 25th every month. Me as example, getting payed now every 1st workday if the next month, so Jauary wage comes February 1.
Thanks for sharing 🙏
living in amsterdam is crazy expensive, i live in the north and i pay 200% less, thankfully
200% less? So you get every month what he has to pay?
@@user-xi6nk4xs4s pretty much yeah, getting a house is like 1k all-in
@@user-xi6nk4xs4s he means Amsterdam is 200% more expensive probably
@@Rsconquest Maybe, but what he did say is his rent is -100%.
@@user-xi6nk4xs4s I know
I've made the choice 31 years ago to start working 4 days a week. And nowadays I work 2,5 days a week. One day a week I take care of my grandson. Most of my career I worked in Amsterdam but didn't live there. Way too expensive. Nowadays house prices in Amsterdam are even more ridiculous. A lot of people left and are leaving Amsterdam when they decide to have kids. In a city like Almere nowadays there live more Amsterdam born families than in Amsterdam itself !
Thanks for sharing, that’s inspiring! I’m hoping to do the same one day :)
One of the reasons is that if you work more than 40 hours you pay much more taxes and it doesnt pay to earn more. They take like 52% or more of your overtime pay in taxes. If you work less you pay less taxes. Its even so that there are levels of amount that you earn thats better to downgrade your 40 h workweek to 32 so you only pay hundreds less taxes but if you work 6 per week more say 40 hours they take half of your freaking income...
Thanks for sharing!
U can also ask: "Why do other people work so many hours?" (Keynes said that people would only work 15 hours a week!)
Most of my life i worked only 3 days a week! When you have 4 days a week off, u don't need vacations/holidays. And because i lived close to my work, i didn't need a car or, even an expensive drivers license. I like the small things in life (best things in life are free!), so don't need much money to live from.
If that answers your question?!
Thanks! Yeah I’d love to work 3-4 days a week one day
Dutch people work less because there is a good chance that they would otherwise no longer receive benefits.
Having more free time is a big bonus, and therefore there is no reason to be motivated to work more.
But I expect this to change when politicians try to solve the labor shortages in the coming years.
Can childcare be semi-done by younger people doing social work as an alternative for the probable incoming military conscription in coming years?
Thanks for sharing
It is difficult to explain this issue, it has more to do with Government want more people at Work, so cutting down the hours means you can get more people to get work.
So incentive is to have less hours a person, then provide more jobs for more people. say 10 people give up 4 hours. it means 11 people can work instead.
That is infact the reason more then the money. since people with a job feels more fullfilling then people without a job. and in the less hours people are more productive.
Then longer hours and days.
Thanks, that makes sense. Yeah people work fewer hours but there’s a big part of the workforce that is working
I still don't understand how single people making ends meet in big cities like amsterdam where working full time isn't worth it but working part time is not enough. How do these people live? specially the students
students come from rich families, I have met many of them, while workers fall into two categories, either those who struggle to make ends meet or the highly qualified who earn a lot of money
People share from what I’ve seen. Or you earn enough.
Here I am as a Dutch person working minimum 60h per week as a business owner. Could work way less if 35% would not go to taxes.
Thanks for sharing. Yeah business owners…that’s a whole different world lol
Well, in the US everything is bigger, longer, etc?
Bigger isn’t always better!
You only live once! Why spend all your time on working?
Also very important to know. We work flexible due to traffic hours. If we all worked from 9-5 It would be so terrible to get home (and it already is, that's why alot of employees are flexible).
Thanks for sharing…flexibility is key
I worked for many years in production (metal- and electronic parts) and found that despite having a 36hrs workweek people worked many more hours. The workers did a lot of overtime with plenty of compensation (money/hrs).
Thanks for sharing. Did the workers choose to work more? Or it’s part of the job and they have to?
The differance between Live to work or work to live.
Yes!
Friday= vrijdag. Vrij = free. Dag = day = freeday
Wow! Everything makes sense now…
Main reason why I don't work full time is because you're literally punished for it in the Netherlands. Your tax bracket goes up, and you lose lots of benefits. You're punished when working hard in this country, it's dumb. Totally not worth it to put in more work, even if you can.
Unless you have your own business, and can avoid lots of taxes that way. As an employee not worth it to work hard, your hours just become worth so much less than they used to.
Thanks for sharing thisn
THE SECRET IS HEALTHY PEOPLE.
🙌🙌🙌
Because we are extremely efficient
Yea NL is still one of the most productive countries
I'd like to add that working less than 5 days is only feasible if you have a decent salary. I wouldn't be able to pay my vaste lasten if I did.
Thanks for sharing…I also realized that for myself in Amsterdam. Unless you live with someone or you earn a high salary. Probably doable if you live in a small town?
I do have to say, as a dutch person you put the emphasis on the word 'time' alot. Funny thing is, is thats the only currency you have as a human in life. Once that runs out it doesnt matter how much money or power or status you have. Dead is dead. And this is what i dont understand about American culture. That the only goal they have is achieve higher and achieve more and better even though (in alot of the cases) money and status wouldnt necessarily result in more happiness. If i work 1 day less in the week but get so much more energry, time, and memories which will last my entire life it pick it over the additional 200-300 euros you'd earn more (depending the job ofcourse) by working another day.
Thanks for sharing…yeah time to me is becoming more important as I get older…the most important currency
I wonder if we could work less. If the predictions of AI come true, we'll need less work to be done by humans (maybe).
Standard work has been replaced a lot over the last decades by automation. I could see a similar trend with AI over time. I don't think people on average can work concentrated on demanding jobs for over 40 hours. The only way to be able to do that is by having a lot of standard (brainless) tasks. As these get more and more removed from many jobs, the number of hours should also decline, as the number of hours of concentrated working are limited for most people. Curious about what the future will bring.
True! It’s an interesting question and thought. I think it could free us from doing the ‘manual’ work and give us more time to pursue the ‘meaningful’ work along with more flexibility. I think work still plays a big role in our lives..
I also wonder if the opposite could be true? That with AI…could it enable us to work more? But MORE meaningful work that gives humans more purpose?
@@hidavidwen It could be the case that we could work more, but why. I've never had the need to find my purpose in work. I've had a period in my life that I worked close to 60 hours a week for a longer period of time here in the Netherlands, but it wasn't because it was demanded. I just was doing a job that I really enjoyed and my work was appreciated (financially it didn't make any sense). I've also had a period in my life that I wasn't working, but taking care of my mother who had major medical problems. My purpose wasn't any different. I agree that we all need a purpose (or multiple purposes) in our life, but I don't agree that it has to be work. Making the life of other people around me better/more enjoyable in itself is purpose enough for me.
Most people (not manual labor) can't concentrate on their tasks for a full 8 hour work day. It's more like 4/5 hours with bursts of around an hour to an hour and half at a time (for the general population, not including neurodivergent folk who might be able to do less or more at a time/day). So when you factor that in as well, even a part time work week of 32 hours is too much. Cutting it down to around 20 to 24 would be way more efficient for everybody (again, not counting manual labor and things like costumer support).
Doing brainless tasks for a long time loses focus and causes mistakes and accidents.
During the 2006 economic crisis i worked 12 hours per day as a machine operator in a plastics factory.
Needing to focus on the process kept me awake. 🤣
Even in automated processes youll still need an operator to run the production.
Hahahaha 72000... Try 38k and I work 36 hours. It's insane how expensive the Randstad is. Sheesh
It is really expensive indeed
It seems to me that the Dutch would like to have their cake and eat it too :)
They work the least amount of hours per week in the EU, but at the same time complain about immigrants who come here because of labor shortages and ostensibly make life more expensive for the locals 😅
Dutchies, please help me understand... I work in an international organization as an expat here in the Netherlands. Majority of the employees are Dutch but the rest of us are foreigners. My question is why are Dutch people so aggressive, antagonistic and angry in meetings? We foreigners don't understand this behavior at all. Those meetings feel like WW3. Very draining 😢 After the meeting they still walk around looking pissed off 😂
In answer to you question , this is the way we communicate . The dutch may sound agressive but its direct communication . antoganistic is part of it . Beeing angry not realy part of this communication form . Unless some one is really screwing up .
Probably because we feel it's not going efficiently, or it "looks rude" while we are just being direct? But i can't say because i am not part of that meeting. There are always outliers. Stereotypes do not always have to be true.
Work to live, don't live to work !
🙌🙌
Little indented detail about the (unavoidable) stagnation due to lower birth rates: *It's temporary*
Yes, of course it is. It might last a few generations, at most, but it will eventually settle as old people die and the average age lowers again. What is more, the first world has nothing to worry about if they have a strong policy of immigration (developing countries facing that? Or those that are very closed like japan? Yeah, good luck). And what is more, it would not affect the first world enough to cause "thirdworld" level issues, at worst is merely a recession and the more countries you deal with commercially it affects, the less it affects you because FIAT money is proportional so.... yeah, not really that much of an issue (it is an issue but economically at least, its taken out of proportion. The biggest issue there is pensions and elder care. And well, politics)
Thanks for sharing
The average works 4 days per week? I doubt it. Is that a per capita average? Can't be true. What I do know is that productivity per paid hour is high.
The main reason is because there are strong tax incentives (and losing goverment support) to work less.
Thanks for sharing
Similar to danish comments
Only one reason: working less and your income is basically the same.
Thanks for sharing