I moved here with my parents when I was three, so I speak Dutch like a native. If you speak Dutch, even if you look Asian (like me) they don’t see you as a outsider anyone once you have a good chat with them,and it’s easy to become (good) friends. They are very open, honest, and in my view, warm and loving people. If they like you they want you to participate and become part of the “gang”. I only have Dutch friends and no Asian ones😂.
Thanks for sharing. I do think language plays a big role. Age too. It’s just hard to make friends as you get older…but the language can help :) Random question…you don’t have to answer but I’m curious…do you identify more as Dutch, Asian, or both?
@@hidavidwen hi David I don’t have Asian friends so I guess Dutch, unless you’re talking about food, that’s definitely Asian orientated, I adore Japan and love their cuisine and culture, I also love Singapore and Hong Kong, but except for that don’t care for Chinese culture much, I do watch history docs sometimes about Chinese history, just to get an idea what my mum and dad are going on about, but then I must admit I am more familiar with British (watched way too much bbc when I grew up) and Dutch history.
Yes, language is a very important part. If you dont speak Dutch, you'll never be completely part of the group. If you speak without an accent, do the same things most Dutch people do, dress the same, you'll most likely be considered Dtuch. The city might be a little different from the rural parts, obviously.
agree with you. My neighbors are all dutch and they are always the ones inviting me over for dinner etc. Im the one who tends to excuse myself because i feel awkward that I don't speak the language.
Thanks for the video! I’m Dutch and living in Switzerland, so I’m also an expat. And from experience and from what I hear from other expats is that’s it’s always kind of hard to make friends from scratch, for all adults, no matter where you live. It’s simply more challenging to make friends as an adult than when you’re in your teens ot early adulthood (and still studying for example). For expats you also have to consider the language and cultural barriers on top of it. I’m a bit done with the “stereotypical” framing of Dutch people as being “cold or introverted”, as that is how Southern Europeans in general picture Northern Europeans, whereas in reality I have learned from experience that the Dutch are quite friendly (albeit “direct”) and have an open mind and show interest/curiosity in others (much more than what I see with for example, Germans, French, and Swiss people who are by far more reserved than the Dutch are). Also, it’s not that hard finding UA-cam videos of expats in Spain, with similar stories in how it’s difficult to make friends in for example Madrid, due to exactly the same factors: language and cultural barriers, and even due to some xenophobia/racism. Southern Europeans really should stop promoting themselves as the “outgoing, social, extroverted” people towards expats, because even though maybe they are like that to their own people, it’s a different story for expats living in their country… In the end I think making friends as an expat is just challenging wherever you go due to said obstacles such as language and cultural barriers, and because of being “older” and thus not having a shared history. The one thing that actually helps a lot in Netherlands is that the Dutch at least speak English on quite a high level, which cannot be said about many other places in Europe and the rest of the world.
You're welcome and thanks for sharing! I agree...making friends as an adult is just hard. I was talking with a few friends about this actually...if I were back home in California, would I be interested in making friends with internationals? I personally would be because I've spent quite a bit of time abroad...but I'm not so sure about most of my friends-and especially as we get older, most already have a set group of friends, and it takes a lot of energy and time to form new friends. But yeah good reminder that these "stereotypes" are indeed stereotypes...there will be friendly people, -extroverts and introverts-everywhere. And the fact is...making friends as we get older is just plain hard.
Dutch people I've communicated with are nice and friendly. With some I've made friendships in early 20s. But to your point, if I'm 30-40 I will be just chilling with my friends. Yet there are statistics and pretty much all of northern Europe is in the bottom. Maybe dutch people like more stability, schedule and have satisfying relationships, which makes making friends as an adult even harder.
the biggest issue is all of them flock to the same touristic cities. Where its very hard to near impossible to intergrate well. They often have odd dialects there too which bothers even more. Such as Amsterdam or Rotterdam having their own dialect and words they use nobody else uses. Mainly the issue is everyone speaks english and because foreigners feel comfortable to get to a escape language and using a tourist hub as a starting point you will be almost unable to make any friends or improve any actual skills we dutch have. Moving away from such cities will instantly increase chances of you being able to find and make more friends as touristic cities dont look for friends as much as its showered with new people constantly. So building a meaningful relationship is out of the question. For everyone their information most people do not have a high respect level for anyone going to amsterdam or such. In fact the opposite is the case. Most people here already puke on those touristic cities for mutilating dutch culture and traditions. So adding yourself to the list of ignorant immigrants doesnt help. What you see much quicker is for example if some black dude goes to the border where its low tourism more caucasian. You will see less of the blacks so he is more recognizable. the person will be easier given a chance as people like to give someone the benefit of doubt and give someone a chance. the more you go to the west, where i was born at, you get a lot of these issues. Foreigners have a lot of issues in this video about making friends but you all set yourself up for failure. Yes you can probably find quick work in a economic hub, but you will not be able to make more friends than you would in a calmer or less touristic city. So the best advise to tourists is to NOT GO to touristic cities, yes you put yourself on hard mode, but you will be friends in no time. A good example channel would be EXPLORING THE FOREIGN Who actually first moved to the south of the country and then later to amsterdam for his own reasons. And his language improved a lot, he makes easily friends. He can talk to people and have a convo out of nothing even with his limited grammar. Let that sink in.
@@hidavidwen Also, you must never forget that you are an expat, meaning, you're just passing through. I understand you want to find friends, but have you considered how beneficial it would be to the Dutch person? Even if they like you, you are going to be gone in a couple of months. Doesn't really sound like someone you would go all in for, does it? The poster here made some good comments. But there are relatively easy ways to make friends with Dutch people: go join a sports club, join an interest group, do activities with your children. These are accessible for all people, regardless of your background. It's also not an attractive look to complain about the people you are interested in joining.
As an Dutch person i tried many times to be friends with people that are culturally different in the Netherlands. The problem i run into is that many cultural groups are together and are not willing to make an compromis to actually include people to much. Because you dont live together you are not able to spontaneously become friends. And if i try to plan with them most of the time i'm to direct. On top of that if people agree to meet up, i've had moments that it feels forced and uncomfortable. because they seem to feel like they have to be there. The only place i've really managed to make friends without to many issiues is in the small japanese car scene. Which is quite multi cultural. Personally i think that the problem is that both sides don't meet out of their comfort zone. When that actually happens its easy to become friends with people from other cultures. I still have friends from all over the world from youth hostels and an international school. My best friends are located in Spain, Italy, Germany, Swiss and England.
Thanks for sharing. I get it too. We tend to be with people and groups we are more familiar with. Whether it's a shared language or mutual interest (japanese car scene). Yeah I've learned that's probably the best way to make friends...find an interest and look for people there.
To fully integrate into the Dutch culture and 'inner circle' of Dutch people, I think it is important to have a decent command of the Dutch language and to participate in activities outside of work, like sports and hobbies in an organized fashion (sportsclubs for example) Also I want to mention even for native Dutch people it can be difficult to make friends and get into new groups when they move a decent bit from their hometown. Most Dutch people have a lot of friends still from growing up and school, it can be challenging to get accepted into those groups even for Dutch people, if you do not participate in the same sport/hobby and aren't involved in any kind of community collective. Joining a sportsclub and showing up every match and training, no matter the weather or if you even want to, will create a bond and stories you share. Only showing up for social events will not cut it, in a group of 10 people you will be the 1 that was there that evening for a drink, while the rest already played a football match in the rain and mud that afternoon. (purely hypothetical ofcourse, just an example) In my opinion we Dutch are also to 'blame', we are way to eager to keep talking English to foreign people, making it harder for them to learn the Dutch language, if not harder at the best it will just take you way longer to get a grip on the Dutch language. I must say I appreciate your videos for the professional, respectful and polite approach, while also showing good follow-up questions, to make it easy for the people in your video to share and show their true experience, keep it up!
I am Dutch, and i think most of the things that Expats or foreigners struggle with has to do with the language. It is a huge barrier for me to really be friends and see eachother regularly if you dont speak Dutch. That is to say, we can be friends and hang out, but it will be separate from my bigger group of friends. Like me and my girlfriend and you and yours, or a smaller group of friends from a certain context. This is because once a non Dutch speaker is present, everyone kinda feels obliged to speak English. Also a big reason is because my friends and me like boardgames, and having a person not speak Dutch is just making that much more complicated. Also, i know someone from Portugal who lives here for more then 10 years now, and still doenst speak Dutch. I dont like this. It gives me the feeling that this person is just here for a phase in their life and doesnt bother to learn the language. It is egocentric. Like an extended work/holiday. I think this has kept me from investing into a friendship with this person or similair people. Dutch friends often go way back, with some minor adjustments over the years. New people definitely join the group, so it is possible for sure! So yes, learn Dutch! I really believe it will be much and much easier to truly call Nederland your home.
Thanks for sharing! Yes that is my 2023 goal. Oh wow, I guess I just committed to someone here haha. I tried during lockdown...but it was too difficult in front of computer all day (work + class). It's just really hard to learn (especially if one lives in Amsterdam) because everyone speaks English and will switch to English as soon as they find out you are a foreigner...so it's really hard to practice. But it's doable!
@riverbend Indeed. Guess the Dutch are kind enough to welcome strangers. But to become real friends, one needs some proof of the other person investing in what's important to you. You are 'too good' to bother to learn our language? Then you will have a hard time finding friends. But if you really try, even when you botch up a lot, we will close you in our hearts for trying and go out of our way to help you. It's supposed to be a two-way-street. We open the door of our hearts a bit to almost everyone. But then you have to do your part and show your commitment. Then the door will open further and further.
@Mariaqueque Vell Sorry you have found people impatient with you. I know many others and I myself, who are patient and willing to help you learn. But I can think of certain settings in which a person holds up a line or something like that, where there is indeed not the possibility to be patient. Learn those phrases well or stick to English for now in those cases. Real nice that you try! I appreciate that. Good luck with your studies and have a nice time here.
For me, when a person is even born here, yet, tries to speak with an accent becasue of identity reasons, it has a lot of social consequences. The same for having only friends of your own group, or only marrying within it. It gives this sign that you're not really planning on becoming fully Dutch, but want to hang on to your own culture. This has serious implications in my opinion, but youre free to do so ofcourse. However, when one does try to speak Dutch without , and doesnt mostly try to stick to their own minority group, you'll most likely be regarded as fully Dutch by most people. However, some minority groups dont seem to like this, as they'll call people who assimilated ''cheeseheads'' or ''white washed''. Its clearly viewed in a negative way.
These interviews were really good. I absolutely love the context and in depth explanations of each unique perspective. Everyone was lovely to learn from.
I grew up in NL , as foreigner is good to learn dutch, The dutch people they feel so proud when a foreigner speak their language. For example if let's say we apply the same job and one speak dutch and the other not even though the one who speak english has more experience they'll will choose the one who speak dutch. If you don't speak dutch they feel you're not investing in them and why should they invest in you
We appreciate it when someone takes the time to learn Dutch. Many Dutch people do speak English, but we usually do not want to talk English all the time in our group if you could invest some time in learning Dutch. I won't say Dutch is easy or hard, those terms are relative, at least I can say that the language doesn't have so many declinations and conjugations, thus it's certainly a language that is possible to learn in a couple of years when you already speak English.
I rather get the feeling that a lot of these issues are simply "immigration issues" that would be the same in a lot of the world. If I were to move to any of their countries I would think I would have a hard time making friends as well, especially living in a big city where everyone's always busy and wants to spend free time with family and already established friends (mostly as the Somali woman said childhood/school friends).
@@Ash-cb8qu "A lot of these issues" doesn't mean "all of these issues". There are random idiots who go out of their way to discriminate all over the world.
I'm Dutch. I moved from Delft to Zwolle when I was a single mom, working 32 hours a week. It took me years to get some friends in Zwolle: the only things I did was working, taking care of my son and keeping my house clean. If you want to get to know Dutch people, the best thing is to join a church, a sports club (preferrably get involved in a team sport), a choir or a social club like NMLK. NMLK stands for 'Nieuwe Mensen Leren Kennen', which means Getting to Know New People'. With NMLK you can join several activities, but also organize activities yourself. One thing: the people there tend to speak Dutch, but are really open for contact. There you meet the Dutch, but becoming friends takes time, that's what I found out myself.
I am Dutch and I befriended expats of many kinds in my badminton club. There are many kinds of different clubs that would make being accepted and even befriended so much easier.
Personally I think language should not be an argument. If you decide to move to a foreign country to live, work or study there, than obviously that is your choice. You choose where you wanted to go, than doesn't it make sense to learn the language of that foreign country ??? Besides that, Dutch people in general do speak English and often German or French as well. Which means communication should in general not be a problem.
Thanks for sharing your perspective. The difficulty is that most Dutch people speak fluent English...so it's really hard to practice! Haha but no excuses, no excuses.
I think that language is a key barrier. Someone who doesn't speak Dutch unconsciously gets put in a 'foreigner' bucket by many Dutch. The days when the Dutch were all the same phenotype or cultural background are long gone. What makes one Dutch these days in my opinion is language and a set of norms one should adhere to. Perfect Dutch is not required, just the effort is hugely appreciated and will open the hearts of many Dutch I would think. When trying to befriend someone you like, it can take some perseverance. Don't be discouraged too easily: Dutch can be rather standoffish at first.
As a Dutch person I find it quite enlightening to read about foreigner's experiences trying to fit in and connect with Dutchies. A lot of the things brought forward I can relate to. Yes, Dutch people tend to be quite reserved and we do have very organised lifes and we can be blunt at times. The housing situation is ridiculous, especially in the western parts of the Netherlands. I managed to buy a house recently, but that was only possible after a decent payrise. Most expats and foreign students tend to stay in the Netherlands for only a finite amount of time and Dutch don't like to invest in friendships when its only for the short term. We like meaningful and deep friendships, not something superficial. When we ask how somebody is doing we tend to be really interested and it's not something we ask out of politeness but we're not really interested in what said person is actually doing. Like some people pointed out already, it's quite hard to form meaningful friendships with people once you get older due to other commitmens like work, kids and whatnot. Keep up the good work, David!
Thanks Raymond. The housing situation is really ridiculous like you said...I've moved 4 times already...and it's always a big headache...and stressful. And making friends...I think that's just harder as we get older too. I see that with trying to maintain my friendships back in California too...people with families and other responsibilities...there's just no time and space to make new friends
I recently had a chat with my mom about socializing, friendships and loneliness. We both agreed that we don't have the social bandwidth anymore to make new friends. We're satiated. Our agendas are filled with work and intense coworker relationships. We have our families and kids and community roles and community care. Partnerroles and a couple of really tight friendships. We're full. We can always have a chat but to get to the point of a deep compassionate empathetic friendship or just hanging out regularly... we don't have the time anymore. Our agendas are always full. That's why we plan meetups weeks in advance, so we can really take that time to get close and intimate with you. 😊 I am really sorry once again to hear about the xenophobia. As a culture and as individuals we still have so much to learn about the ways we inflict pain onto others. 💔
Thanks for sharing Annette. Oh yes I know about those agendas! Yeah I also think it’s harder to make friends once you get older too. Especially if you move away from home. That’s always a big challenge..
Thanks for another video David! You mentioned you are introverted in another video, so am I. I feel like the Dutch being tough to make friends as a plus? How has your experience been as an introvert in a Dutch society been? Maybe a topic for another video? Seems like an introverted paradise for someone with an engineering brain.
Thanks so much. Haha yes, I am definitely an introvert. Being an introvert here definitely helps-especially with the gloomy winters and COVID (some of my more extroverted friends had a really tough time). But I personally value and need human connection. I love people and meeting new people as well-just in small groups =) Otherwise, my energy batteries become drained really quickly
I'm Dutch, living in Leiden, and I can confirm that it is difficult to make friends here especially after university. My own friends have moved away over the years and as a result I've moved more into the expat scene in the last decade (most social meetups here are for internationals). The expat community here is very welcoming of people of all sorts. But it has its own challenges. People tend to leave after a few years, so it is difficult to make long term friendships. And as you say at the end, the cultural differences can lead to different expectations and misunderstandings, and this is sometimes hard to navigate. I have not met a lot of Dutch people in the expat community (a little more since the pandemic), and I do sometimes miss that shared sense that you get when you are friends with someone who grew up in the same culture. But at the same time these differences also make the expat scene very colorful and interesting.
Thanks for sharing. Oh yeah...I can relate myself. It gets harder in general to make friends once we get older. Especially once people start having families (my age group at the moment). I get you too...there's something about bonding with someone from the same culture. But I've also learned and have grown so much by meeting from other cultures-whether it's living abroad or traveling. Best of both worlds! But yeah you're not alone!
I live in the province of Noord-Brabant and my brother in law, who commutes her for work from Delft where he lives, tells me ppl here are very open about their private lives. He was pleasantly surprised to notice collageaus here take a genuine interest in his private life. Where he use to work in the Amsterdam region that wasnt the case he said. I found that very interesting to hear. Maybe you could ask expats from Tilburg/Eindhoven/Den Bosch about their experiences? Would be very interesting to watch.
Oh dear. I'm Dutch. Lived in Tilburg for a while. Worst experience in me living in 6 different provinces in the Netherlands! The people are friendly in your face, but they scheme behind your back. They get easily jealous and lie and slander to bring you down. The province of North-Brabant is especially nice to the drunk, and yes, they open up even too much then. But if you want to get your trust betrayed and your heart broken, it's the very best province to move to.
@@hidavidwen Especially Amsterdam is sort of flooded with tourists and also expats. It can be too much, you know. So, although of origin the people of Amsterdam were of the most open kind, they have started to see the flood on foreigners as a bit of a burden. When they see you, they see work. They'll behave at work. But many don't want to bring their work into their private lives too much. A drink at the bar at happy hour is fine, that is not very deep though. Real friendships do happen, but are harder to form. They just want some rest :)
@@hidavidwenthere are parts of the Netherlands you really don't want to live because the people don't like outsiders. I come from Rotterdam and move to Zutphen terrible people you are a outsider and don't belong there. I am a Dutch women discriminated in my own county unbelievable. After 1.5 years I moved back to Rotterdam. A lot of parts of Gelderland and Overijssel are terrible to live if you are not born there.
Hello David, the steep stairs are only in Amsterdam and other big old cities with very very old houses. Other houses have normal stairs. Also outside Amsterdam you have bigger and cheaper houses with gardens and lot of place. It's not so crowded. About making new friends, yes that is difficult also for a Dutch. You have to have a click and it will help if you have some shared interests and or hobbies. For expats , join a club . This will help making friends easier and quicker.
Thanks so much for your reply. I personally like the steep stairs (as it's quite unique and I like the physical challenge). Yeah about making new friends...it's not easy (especially as you get older-something I'm learning). Having that click is so important
@@hidavidwen maybe you like them bc it's an experience for you. My aunt had these stairs, climbing them as a kid still haunts me to this day xD. At least once in my 20s I've had a nightmare about them so far.
@CAPTAIN HOOK Thanks for taking the time to respond. Yeah I've learned there's a difference between being rude and being direct. Important to differentiate.
Hi David, thanks for another great video. It's really inspiring to see and hear about a country through different perspectives. I hope to visit and maybe one day live in The Netherlands.
You're welcome Garrett and thanks! Yeah I'm also learning from other people/cultures as well. If you have any topics you'd like me to explore, feel free to throw them my way!
Great vid. I love to watch this kind of videos about the Netherlands as Dutch person. Remarkable is the fact that while the trend in this vid is that making Dutch friends is hard, in a couple of other youtube videos I've seen the opposite seems to be true. I cannot really explain the difference. Maybe it has to do with what is perceived as close relations. What counts as a friendship here, maybe only felt as a surrogate friendship when one comes from a culture were bonds between people are stronger or more intense to begin with. Than again, I know a lot of people who are the opposite. So in the end you gotta just roll with the dices and make the best of it. Don't expect and just enjoy what you get.
Awesome interview man. I like the way you directed it. It's like watching a documentary. I am an Asian and this video gave me some perspective to not go to the Netherlands.
Language is always the key. Recently we were in Paris and needed help. Having a good grasp of French (I am Dutch) it is just wonderful how open, helpful and friendly Parisians are when you speak their language. Same experience elsewhere with German. I'm glad I speak 5
I have an 8/10 score on my highschool diploma for both written and spoken French. A couple of years after graduating I went to Normandy and for the life of me couldn't get any sentence together other than the default cookie cutter phrases. Even though, just trying to speak French already gave me a huge leg up on English only speakers. When my broken French faulted French natives actually started helping me find the words, whereas English only speakers were straight ignored most of the time by anyone not directly in the conversation.
How to make friends in Netherlands? Just like anywhere else: Find something in common. A hobby, sport, passion, dance club, etc. Talk to some stranger. Most Dutch find friends these ways in addition to their school/university, which as an expat you are unlikely able to rely on (unless you did go to class in NL).
The stairs were my worst nightmare in Amsterdam! When you fall on them, your body slides to the bottom-not good for old people! you can't imagine how many old people have died on those stairs.
For your social contacts in the Netherlands. Speaking a foreign language is difficult, but understanding a foreign language is very much easier. If you reach the level that you understand most of what is said in Dutch, you can say to your friends: please speak Dutch to me. You speak English, they talk Dutch. I have a German friend, he speaks it poorly, but understands Dutch quite reasonably. So, he speaks German to me and I speak Dutch to him and that is so much more comfortable. Only now and then we have to ask, what did you say? What’s the meaning of that word? Most Dutchmen understands English, but having a conversation in English all the time is too difficult. Its really rewarding to understand Dutch, so that they can speak Dutch to you. It will making friends easier. For friends you could look nearby. Some of my neighbours and former co-worker are friends now.
Thanks so much. Yeah that’s a beautiful thing…where you can connect through different languages. I can just imagine that right now. Some of my closest friends I’ve made so far are also from work.
The introvert part depends wether your north of the rivers or south of the rivers. South it's easier to make friends, but harder to keep them while north it's harder to make them but easier to keep.
Ja, de meeste mensen praten "Netherlands " Jah, Ik zit nu al 4 weken thuis. Omdat er door, een Babilo. Iemand met een heftruck over mijn voet gereden is. Jah, Ik ben een geboren Nederlander! En spreek Engels en Frans en een beetje Duits en Italiaans. MAAR ,ALS JE HIER WIL WERKEN EN WONEN!!! LEER NEDERLANDS!!! Dat maakt alles veel makkelijker. Groetjes uit Spakenburg,Nederland.
As a dutchman I have to say it truly depends on were you live. If u live for example near big student city's people are more familiar with internationals.
To the lady from Columbia, I’m so sorry to hear your challenges. I’ll pray for you, many non immigrant doesn’t know how difficult it is to move to a new country.
I'm from Poland and my experience is opposite. Most dutch people are really nice, smiling most of the time, helpful, friendly. I can't even compare them to polish without insulting most of my nation. Housing situation sucks but that's all and I have few dutch addresses where I'm just welcome. Maybe my expectations aren't high, but it's a huge upgrade.
I think it might very much depend on where in the Netherlands you live. I'm native Dutch myself and whenever I'm in a "big" city I really see a disconnect between those people and the people in my smallish town (or people from smaller towns/villages in general). Since these interviews were probably done near Amsterdam the culture is really different from where I'm from (Gelderland) for example.
@@stysner4580 small town south west of Rotterdam. Imo big cities suck in almost every country, tho Oslo in Norway was really cool to live in. Very peaceful
There is a big difference between being friendly and being friends. Being friendly is common. Being friends is not. I reckon most Dutch people only have a handful of others they consider friends. I have a friend that I haven't seen or spoken to in years, but I know I can rely on her in need. On the other hand: I have quite a number of people that I'm friendly with and see on a really regular basis but wouldn't call friends. I invite them to dinner, to my birthday party etc; but friends? Not truly. So it's also a matter of expectations. Language is very important. Getting a message across in another language isn't difficult. Joking and making fun is difficult in another language, and you need to be able to joke with friends. Moreover, you need to feel that the other is able to handle your directness. Other aspect count as well. Friends you can trust, but how is someone without an agenda trustable? We like simple and efficient. So: having a bike is way better than having a SUV/BMW or another impractical contraption. Knowing you're on the same page in these things makes it easier to become friends.
The the big question ofcourse is why would i wanna be your friend ? What have you to offer what a not already have ? And that goes for everyone not only for expats but also for "native"dutch.
I live in the Netherlands, and ye most of my friends we're childhood friends, now that I've become an adult i don't have any friends anymore And ye making new friends is very difficult
Yeah Kazuna...I think that's universal...it gets harder to make friends once we become older...not impossible...just harder...hopefully the friends we DO make are quality friends though
1. This is not about living in the Netherlands as a foreigner but: living in ANY country as a foreigner! Anyone who goes abroad always has the same complaint: people are not open, it is difficult making friends ect. ect. I never heard otherwise from Dutchies going abroud. That is just how humans are. 2. They probably all live in Amsterdam. Even for most Dutchies Amsterdam is a cold and harsh place. Amsterdammer's never leve the A10, so Amsterdam is its own universe 3. Funny to hear them all complain about the housingmarket, use that as an opener, because it is universal in the Netherlands (for young people) :P. The population in the Netherlands whould already started shrinking since 2010/2015 (more deaths, less births) if not for migration. The Dutch goverment has seriously under-estimated the migrantnumbers (in 2018 they still predictad shrinkage) and deregulated the housingmarket, so supply did not keep up with demand.
The Columbian woman throws everything on xenophobia, but I can assure her, that when your dogs bark for hours, when you are away, that will drive anyone crazy. That has nothing to do with xenophobia. Everything to do with a specific problem of your dogs. The neighbors of my parents had a new dog and it would howl for hours. With thin walls, you hear everything. The pup basically could not be left alone. My mother kindly talked with the neighbor, but she wouldn't believe her at first, so nothing was done. But the quality of life of my mother was really badly influenced, so she tried again. Finally the neighbors were civil enough to check it and of course my mother was right. They apologized and received special dog training and advise to help the dog come at ease. Now, of course, when you let your neighbors down like that, they at some time lose all affinity for you and indeed hope you move out. Maybe even exaggerate, just to 'help' the uncivil woman to want to relocate. But I guess it is much easier to blame everything on your neighbors and call them xenophobic and racist. What a very dislikable response.
In Amsterdam we have 120 nationalities so being Dutch nowadays is very different than 20 years ago. E.g. in shops it is quite normal they approach you in english. However in other areas this will be different.
@@hidavidwen in the seventies and eighties of the previous century people from Suriname, Morocco and Turkey came to Amsterdam and this changed the population. From a monoculture the city changed to a multicultural society.
[ *English Translation is added, scroll down.* ] Taal - dit lijkt eigenlijk in alle thema's naar boven te komen, van vriendschap tot huizing, en werk. Waarom is het spreken van de landstaal zo belangrijk, en toonend van respect voor het land en diens cultuur? Taal en de geschiedenis van het land en diens cultuur en sub-culturen zijn met elkaar verweven. Denk aan orale geschiedenis, folklore, spreekwoorden en gezegden. Ik ben een geboren en getogen Limburger, maar had als kind geen streek dialect geleerd - dit was waarom ik voor Huillander werd uitgemaakt, wat een woordspeling is voor Hollander. Waarom is taal zo belangrijk voor mensen en onze relaties - interacties. En waarom is miscommunicatie nummer een boosdoener in ontstaan van problemen met/binnen relaties? Dat is waarom! Denk er maar eens over na. Waarom ik ook bewust in het Nederlands mijn reactie geef. Mede omdat ik snap dat het ook gaat om het overbrengen van de boodschap is er de vertaling, dubbel werk, maar graag gedaan. Vriendschap; dit is iets wat tijd nodig heeft, en gedeelde ervaringen en levensopvattingen, vandaar dat dit veelal vanuit de jeugd wordt opgebouwd, dit is heel normaal en menselijk. Socialisatie en verschillende vormen van, vergeet niet dat het LAGE LANDEN, Nederland is Netherlands, meervoud van landen is. Een unie van de Lage landen. Waarom Nedeland zo divers is ondanks het kleine formaat, waarom wij ook zijn gaan kolonializeren om meer land te hebben, meer bronnen voor het bemachtigen van onze identiteit en vrijheid. Een verschil is hierbij dat Nederland niet iedereen een vriend noemt, wij zijn bekent met het woord kennis. Wij hebben kennissen, collega's en vrienden & familie. In sommige culturen is iedereen die je kent als "vriend" betiteld. Waarbij kennen een groot woord is, van zien of echt als persoon. Dat is niet Nederlands. Eventueel spelen andere geschied aspecten hierbij ook een rol, verraad in WOII, en de turbulente ontstaansgeschiedenis van Nederland. Geboren en getogen, en ik vind het net zo moeilijk om echt vrienden te maken, waarbij ik niet de enige ben. Wij stuiten op dezelfde wortel dat vriendschappen veelal over tijd gesmeed raken. Gereserveerd (introvert zoals de Portugees het zei) heeft waarschijnlijk ook voor delen te maken met onze geschiedenis, Nederland bestaat opzichzelf net enkele honderden jaren, en is in de geschiedenis in de handen van vele machthouders/-hebbers geweest. Ik weet dat er in een andere video is aangegeven dat de open ramen Calvinistisch zijn, maar het Zuiden is Katholiek, en wij hadden dit ook, maar als overblijfsel van de Duitse bezetting - toen was het verboden om gordijen open te hebben - de Duitsers moesten ten alle tijden het huis door kunnen kijken. Dus dit soort eventueel sub-culturele verschillen verwoven in de "Nederlandse cultuur". Ik weet hoe moeilijk het voor mij was om in 2003 een woning te bemachtigen. Als een alleenstaande jonge man, waarbij er voorrang was voor van alles, wat ook begrijpelijk is deels, maar ik had ook een woning nodig, geboren en getogen hier. Dat is alleen erger geworden in de tijd, als je mij vraagt, met verschillende redenen, waarbij deels al dezelfde als twintig jaar geleden. Geld - de huizenmarkt, bij een tekort kan er meer gevraagd worden. De anti-kraak van tegenwoordig, ik heb in het begin in deze settings geleefd. En met de kraak bewegingen van de jaren 60's 70's & 80's in Nederland bijvoorbeeld. Hier hebben de mensen zo te horen geen kaas van gegeten, (geen kennis van/over) Burgerschap is een heel divers thema, welke hierbij sterk verbonden is. Immers leven, wonen en werken ze in Nederland. De Nederlandse identiteit, en de Nederlandse sub-identiteiten - sub-culturele Nederlandse steek identiteiten, waarbij de non-Nederlandse identiteiten nog weer een extra identiteits toevoeging hebben welke De Nederlander niet heeft. Ik ben Nederlander, maar boven dit ben ik Limburger, Zuid Limburger om precies te zijn, dit is mijn identiteit (in Nederland). Language - this seems to surface in all the topics, from friendship to housing, and work. Why is the speaking of the countries language so important, and a showing of respect for the country and its culture? Language and the history of the country and its culture and sub-cultures are interwoven with each other. Think about oral-history, folklore, proverbs and sayings. I am a born and raised Limburger, but as a child I had not learned the local dialect - this is why I was labeled Huillander, which is a wordplay on Hollander. Why is language so important for people and our relations - interactions. And why is miscommunication number one culprit in the cause of problems with/within relations? That is why! Think about this for a second. Why I also deliberately give my response in Dutch. Because I also understand it is about getting your message across there is the translation, double the effort, but my pleasure. Friendship; this is something that needs time, and shared experiences and takes on life, why this mostly is built upon from youth, this is very normal and human. Socialization and different variants, don't forget that it is LOW LANDS, Netherlands = Netherlands {In Dutch it is singular, in German, France, English it is plural) A union from Low lands. Why the Netherlands are so divers despite the small size, why we also started to colonize to get more land, have more sources to obtain our own identity and freedom. A difference with this is that in the Netherlands we don't call everybody our "friend", we are familiar/acquainted with the word acquaintance. We have acquaintances, colleagues and friends & family. In some cultures everyone you know is labeled "friend". Here knowing is a big word, from seen around or really as a person. This is not Dutch. Probably other historic aspects play part in this, ... (snitching, ratting out, betrayal, treason, treachery]... in WWII, and the turbulent birthing/creation history of the Netherlands. Born and raised, and I find it equally difficult to make real friends, and I am not the only one. We encounter the same root that friendships mostly are forged over time. Reserved (introverted as Portuguese said it) probably also in parts has to do with our history, the Netherlands exists as is just a few hundred years, and is in been in the hands of multiple rulers. (Roman, French, Spanish, German, etc.) I know that in a different video there was said that the open windows are Calvinistic, but the South is Catholic, and we also have this, but as a remnant of the German occupation - at that time it was forbidden too have curtains open - the Germans had to be able to look through your house at all times. These types of probable sub-cultural differences interwoven into the "Dutch culture". I know how difficult it was for me to get a living space for myself in 2003. As a single young male, with there being precedence for different things, also understandable in part, but I also was in need for a living space, born and raised here - and at the end of the precedence line. This only got worse over time, if you ask me, with multiple reasonings, were in part the same as already 20 years ago. Money - the housing market, with a shortage they can ask more. The anti-kraak (anti-squatting) of now days - I lived in these types of arrangements in the beginning. And with the squatting movements in the 60's, 70's, and 80's in the Netherlands as an example. It sounds like the people have no knowledge of this. Civilian - ship, is a whole diverse topic, which is strongly connected to all this. After all, they live and work in the Netherlands. The Dutch identity, and the Dutch Sub-identities - sub-cultural Dutch identities of locality, and the non-Dutch identity is an extra layer in the identity which The Dutch don't have. I am Dutch, but above that I am from Limburg, South Limburg to be correct, my identity within the Netherlands.
It's interesting to me that the two main takeaways are things that are challenging to native Dutch people as well, though of course they are exacerbated by being from a different background. Housing is a big issue at the moment for all people living in The Netherlands. There are definitely more protection for renters than in for example the US, but prices are high and it's hard to find places, and buying is ridiculous at the moment. But once you start adding the harder communication through language and cultural barriers, that the laws are different, that expats often have less of a support network and that they are unlikely to want to live away from the city where housing is cheaper, it does indeed become even harder. And then making friends. I do believe that at the moment, adults in the West in general are struggling to make new friends, and even more so in The Netherlands. And for expats anywhere, making new friends is an extra challenge. So yeah, it does all make sense.
Thanks for sharing Jasper. I’ve never seen a housing market so crazy competitive (well I can only compare to the US). And yeah making friends as adults…just hard in general!
Language is the key I'm sure. Although al lot of Dutch people speak and understand English it's a sign of respect and that you're invested, if you try to learn their language. In restaurants in the big cities there are a lot of foreigners working nowadays, learn at least a few key sentences Dutch, that's the start of making a connection (also with your neighbours) and get to know what the general MO is of the country you're gonna live in. A Dutch saying goes like this: "'s Lands wijs 's Lands eer"
Yeah I think language is a key factor in any culture...to integrate. Even though most Dutch speak fluent English...it's not the same as one's native language
I do feel like many of the difficulties described here are more general European difficulties and not specifically associated with The Netherlands. Like the housing situation unfortunately is also quite bad in other rich Western European countries. Try finding an apartment in London, Hamburg, Paris, etc.. it's difficult and very expensive. And when moving into a small apartment with 2 dogs (sounds like that lady lives in an old house build early or mid 20th century, so at least 60 years old). In the Netherlands dogs are typically not owned by people who live in such small apartments (without a garden). It sucks for the dogs themselves and the walls/floors are so thin everyone around you can hear you. Neighbours are not family or friends, just random people who happen to live next to you by coincidence. Obviously they give you a hard time when you produce too much noise over a prolonged period of time . Not because they are *ssholes. But because they can hear your dogs barking while they are in their own living room relaxing after a hard days work. As a Dutchie I often find that foreigners have less environmental/situational awareness about these things. They just do whatever/whenever they want and aren't really aware the apartments above/below/left/right can hear exactly what they are doing..
Privacy just comes at a premium im afraid. Just as countries like Japan, the country is very densely populated. And not only that, most of the people are concentrated in the "Randstad" region, made up roughly by the 4 largest cities: Amsterdam, Rotterdam, The Hague and Utrecht in the central-west part of The Netherlands. It really comes down to being very wealthy to be able to afford privacy like a free-standing family home with a private garden surrounding the property like you find in a typical middle-class suburb in the US. Luckily working from home becomes ever more poplular and The Netherlands certainly has more rural areas where land is obviously a lot cheaper, so there are options.
Thanks Sander. Yeah I’ve read that many are moving to smaller towns (everywhere in the world) due to remote working. It makes sense too…being a very densely populated country…you’re not going to have a lot of space!
The issues with making friends with Dutch people sounds like the same as here in North Dakota USA. With people who are not used to traveling , they tend to want to stick to their comfort zone and same friend group from childhood years. I have noticed too, that I have to be extra outgoing for a time when moving to a new place or else there will be no traction with getting to know people. Bascially people who have lived one place all their lives, have friends and family nearby, may feel they don't need to make more friends. Whereas travelers like us enjoy making friends wherever we go and keep in touch over the years. I think it's important to acknowledge that friends don't have to always live close by and who knows maybe a friend made in Netherlands will come on future travels. People just need to be open to all kinds of friendships ❤
Generally Dutch people make friends at school for life. A second chance is when you have children going to school and you as a parent can make friends with other parents. But that's it, generally. For Dutch people, friendship is a cherished thing. They don't treat it lightly, and generally friends are for life, just like a marriage. So, it is very challenging for a Dutch person (with friends already) to have that deep felt contact with people from a different culture that might not speak the language perfectly. Is that xenophobic? I don't think so, but I can imagine that people from outside perceive it that way.
It's not xenophobic per se but it is a somewhat closed culture. A more open culture is welcoming of newcomers. For example, if people move to a new city for work in the USA - their new co-workers will usually invite them out or show them the city. This is not always the case but Americans generally are interested in embracing the new or novel whereas many other cultures are not. This makes it easier for newcomers to find their place and comfort zone.
@@vmoses1979 Yes but you wouldn't describe these co-workers as your friends, would you? If you want to find friends that automatically means you don't only want shallow relationships, which is what you're describing.
@@koenkeep Not all co-workers will be real friends but since Americans spend so much time working - your co-workers figure prominently in one's day to day life. Friendship develops over time as you spend days together and have common experiences. But if like the Dutch model your co-workers have a fixed set of school friends and keep colleagues at arm's length - of course all interactions will be superficial and no deeper friendship is possible. The openness of Americans and their desire to meet 'new' people allows a person to develop a network or a set of friends in a new city particularly through the workplace. BTW - I don't know how it is in the Netherlands but most people in North America meet spouses or significant others through the workplace. This necessarily means people are open to a more meaningful relationship rather than something superficial.
@@vmoses1979 But you do not choose these people to be around begin with. Dutch people choose whether they want to be with the people they want to be around with. And meeting your spouse through the work space is a potential recipe for disaster. It could force you to uproot not only your 'work friends', your work and relationship if things go awry.
Language is always a big part of the problem of fitting in. Even though most Dutch speak English they are, of course more comfortable speaking their own language. I'm an American/Dutch person and I've lived here for 40+ years. There are so many ex-pats in Amsterdam and the bigger cities that it's also easier for us to become part of English speaking groups. I gravitate to English speakers, even though I speak Dutch well. The Dutch are basically very sociable I think, though they are much less extrovert, flamboyant, excessively emotional than some other nationalities. Nuchterheid is a national trait that is highly valued. If you look it up they'll translate it as sobriety, but it's also non-sentimental, no excess emotion. Doe normaal, ja?
I like the Indian Guy and the Portugese guy the most. The womans I do not like that much. Your interviewing work can still have some work to be done. But it's getting better. Good video.
Thanks Remco! And for the feedback. That's good to hear...that I still have lots to learn =) Anything specific you can recommend to help me become a better interviewer?
finding housing is hard even for dutch people, but the somalian woman saying most jobs are dutch speaking, yeah if i go to somalia how many dutch speaking jobs will there be?
Housing in The Netherlands is basically a challenge to really everybody in The Netherlands, so also to the locals as well ! And yes Dutch really is the language here. And as long as you do not speak Dutch you will barely have access to Dutch friends. See with friends one becomes personal and becoming personal you do in the language you know best and in the Netherlands this is and will always be: Dutch and nothing else ! Do not forget that we already have friends we have had for our entire life, so we do not need you to be added to this group of friends, especially when you do not speak the language of the country; we all speak. So want to make a chance to get into a existing group of Dutch friends who know each other for several decades ..? Start by learning to speak fluently Dutch, just like we all do here. No more English ! , no really ! Remember that the effort will have to come from you!
I am using your videos as prep for a visit to Holland that I left 65 years ago as a child when our family emigrated to Canada. I retain the language though I now speak dutch with an anglicized lilt. I enjoy the multicultural aspect of your interviews. I'm curious however about the experience of less educated, less articulate folks who move to Holland from places like Morocco or Turkey. Have you interviewed Muslim folks interacting with the Calvinist culture and the promise and challenges of that? Thank you for your videos.
Thanks for sharing Nick. Oh wow, 65 years ago...if you were here in-person, would love to have a conversation with you! Thanks for the idea, I will add that to the list as there is a big population of minorities in the Netherlands too...I'm also very curious! And hope you have a great trip back to Holland...I'm sure it will be very special
Totally agree with the man from India. The housing situation is indeed very challenging. In fact, my husband and I are Dutch, but we cannot afford to live in our own country. From our income, we are unable to find affordable housing. So now we live in neighboring Germany. But when you think the Dutch are hard to befriend, you have not met the Germans. They are very closed off. Their mentality still in the range of what caused two world wars in the last century. So this is no permanent solution for us. Back to the man from India. Expats have found time and again, that when they really try to learn the language, it's easier to make friends. He might want to try that. He's obviously smart. But having lived her five years now, he ought to be fluent in Dutch by now. Well, perhaps he is and this interview had to be in English. Just repeating what I heard of what seems to help. We ourselves went to Romania for a few years. A totally different and quite challenging language. We studied hard and were semi-fluent within a year. Became close friends with Romanians.
The Netherlands is on my list of places to move to, but the housing situation makes me have second thoughts. I live in a major city in the US and finding adequate housing here is also difficult. A decent, well kept apartment that is not exorbitant in price is very difficult to find. I wonder what the metrics are for people who are trying to find a home are. Is it a price range, neighborhood or just a home in general?
It's a great place to live in. Though you will probably move around a bit before finding a 'home' I've moved quite a few times already...but yeah it's part of the experience. Best of luck!
I'm Dutch and it's true that it's hard to find a house here for a reasonable price. I expect there to be a lot more opportunity once the so called 'baby boomers' decline in numbers.
@@Dimanti88 That will still take a while. And it is not even the cause of the problem. For instance: look at the situation of the university students. Today most of them are looking for a house to live in. Reasonable of course. But, in my days at the Uni (and I am a baby-boomer from '49) you rented a room from a hospes/hospita and that was it. Families of 8 lived in the Jordaan in a house where today just one ( 1 ) person is living. The real problem is the cultural change we had here. From a society where you had to do with the little you had into one where everything is possible. Going on holidays 4 times per year and so on. At the same time, over the course of 2 to 3 decades, the facilities for care for the elderly were mainly reduced under the motto: stay at home as long as possible, that should be possible. The effect is clearly visible in my hometown: here we have people aged 80 and 90 who cannot leave their single-family homes because there is no suitable new place to live for them. The result is that young people cannot find a new home, because there is now also a building freeze.
No one is able to find a house. Not only that, but we also have a migration crisis partially due to not having enough houses. One of the woorst problems here.
Great video on a diversity of opinions. The biggest difference I think is the expectation and definition of being or becoming friends and accepting it s friendship. These new comings will have a challenge to difference between what new contact is more likely to become a friend and suitable for real friendship. As a newling it's understandable to wanna go for direct to friendship instead of the building up route people take. Most people you encounter will be nice and friendly to you. But this doesn't mean they want to be all friends and end up in friendship. If you yust end up with one or two out of 100 encounter you may call these friendship. Otherwise you yust have a manual type of Facebook friends.
Housing is a challenge for natives too. Too expensive after decades of low rates of new builds and decades of an atrocious 'the market will sort it out' approach by VVD and CDA governments.
Hi David, thanks for putting together this video. Great to hear from different perspectives, nationalities and race - my partner and I are new to Amsterdam as well and I just want to say my heart goes out to the lady with the dogs as I have a dog myself and we are Asians. Hopefully it's not something we will experience with our future neighbours!
Hi Tricia - thanks for the kinds words and you're welcome! Yeah unfortunate for her...it could happen anywhere in te world =/ She lives in a small town. I think it should be fine in Amsterdam. I've never experienced anything. Hope you're enjoying Amsterdam! The summer was fantastic...now back to normal Dutch weather 🌧
Depends on your definition of friend. Investing in a friendship takes quite some time. The time that short term imigrants (expats) are around does not make it tempting for me to invest the time to become true friends for me as Dutch national. I also think many short term immigrants are only superficially interested in their host country and its inhabitants.
Thanks for sharing Martin. I've found making friends once you get older is just really hard in general...like after your 20s... And many have said that learning the language will definitely help too (wherever you go)
It's not a Dutch thing. In Belgium in dutch schools, the topic of openness is always discussed and everyone from the south mentions exactly the same things and everyone from central northern European countries are like "we don't see a problem" It's very "expat in Nl" though, to identify common aspects of the general area as almost only Dutch. Like they have landed in the most unique county on the planet.
I'm portuguese and I'm looking to live in another country. I tried both the US and England for a bit and thought for a while the Netherlands seemed a well balanced country. I only spent like a week there on travel....(Amsterdam, Rotterdam and a couple of places in between).............but one thing I wasn't prepared for was how CROWDED the country feels. It made me feel I couldn't really live there, altough on paper, every other criteria meets my personal values and criteria. Even when going outside the big cities (obviously I didn't travel through the WHOLE country in a week) the nature and fields....everything felt like it was "alloted" ....there was very little space to just roam freely, while still being close enough to a city. At least, that's how it felt to me.
I know this is usual cliche people never like to hear, but . . . it depends on the individual more than the nationality. Though I myself have never lived in the Netherlands, I've worked with numerous Dutch expats abroad. I'd say most of them have been rather aloof, snotty, or outright mean-spirited, whom you could never get along with. Then during a college exchange program, I encountered a young graduate assistant. He was friendly, down to earth and quickly and easily made friends with like-minded persons. He did admit though, that he was an outlier in Dutch society, and he himself didn't have many local friends. Indeed his fiancée was a Indonesian-Dutch woman.
Thanks for sharing. Yeah there are individual differences too. I mean we are influenced by so many things…national culture, our family, our friends, our environment, and of course us as individuals. Good reminder
Yeah, I know such people. Some people really think too much of themselves. And Dutch expats are sort of an elite group. Can understand you don't like such. We, the vast majority of the normal Dutch, don't like them either. If you only get to know people from that very small group, you'd easily think all Dutch are like that. But it's far from that. Besides, don't forget, that the directness of the Dutch really is an acquired taste. Many people find the Dutch so rude at first. When they get to know them a lot better, they start to see a whole different aspect of them and learn to differentiate between rude and just truly frank. The more careful your own culture is with sharing information and especially critique, the less people from that culture will felt drawn to these 'weird' people. But believe me, most Dutch people have their hearts in the right place and are gladly friendly. There's one thing though: once you've proven to be a fake, a leech or our enemy, we'll loath you for the rest of our lives. And happily let you know that, too.
@@hidavidwen Hoofddorp is close by to almost everything. You have Amsterdam, Haarlem, The Hague, Leiden, Delft all in close vicinity. Plus a wide arrange of lovely beach towns. Venture out half an hour and the world lies open to you. The only truly hard thing of Hoofddorp is the international airport of Schiphol though. If you like plain spotting, you're in paradise. But it's a lot of noise and not much nature.
In 30th i guess sometimes hobbies could give u some friends. However my best friends are still those whom I met in school. Then probably few colleagues with whom i worked for a few years closely. I couldn't call anyone from volleyball section as friends despite the fact i played with them for 6 years. Outside of volleyball we dont have any common interests
Thanks…yeah we can meet friends from hobbies but it takes a lot more time together to really build a relationship…especially sports (from my experience playing basketball)
Never felt being a Dutch, or even felt being part of the culture😢Even though Both Parents; Seven generation Dutch, myself was born in Holland. I'm so glad I moved to the USA! 😊 Yes! You can have the American Dream & soon I'm going to become a USA Citizen 🇺🇸🎆👌
It's interesting about finding it hard to make friends. I wonder if that's not always the case between cultures. I'm in London and I find it hard as well. Although British culture is known for being extremely reserved and not direct. I would say that's a factor as well.
That's not British culture. London is very different, remember there are only about 40% English here. In Yorkshire people are famous for being blunt and direct, and generally when you are in England outside the South East you can easily get into conversation with people at bus stops, on the bus, or in the shop. Even within the M25, I've had conversations with random strangers but far far outside the centre of London, near to Slough in the countryside.
Truth is, outside of business, people want to be among their own gene pool. Not foreigners. It's reality, and it won't change. This notion that "we're all the same" just hurts people more by not opening to the truth for the sake of a moral highground. Only things that will really assist you is speaking Dutch fluently, like natively fluent. Taking over behaviours from the Dutch, embracing freedom and a chase for knowledge and great literature. Most foreigners do not understand that they have to integrate, and since 2015 it seems our government stopped caring about whether or not foreigners integrate. Good luck.
I left the country 50 years ago precisely because of the underlying reason for the challenge of living in the Netherlands: There are a lot of people living in a small country . This makes privacy hard , so the Dutch gave it up. it makes housing a perpetual struggle ( My mom complained about housing when I was a child ( 60+years ago now ). So the Dutch have their 'virtual' privacy which compartmentalizes their lives in departments ( sports, work, family , childhood friends, hobbies) . Spontaneous has been sacrificed for separation.
@@hidavidwen Living in the US after spending years in Europe, .. still have a sister I stay in touch with . No reason to visit there when there still so much to explore.
Great video, thank you. I think the Colombian woman in the start would do well if she moved to some other neighborhood or city all together, there are areas that like to keep everything Dutch as Dutch as possible afraid of losing heritage. And I know she is in the Netherlands for work, but with the infrastructure in place there, would you rather have a nice neighborhood that is accepting, with good neighbors and where you can unwind and a bit longer of a commute or be stressed even when you're home with a shorter commute?
What she said about xenophobia is so sad. I wish humans were incapable of such things it would make the world such a better place. Most people know intelectually this isn't acceptable or have learned to not care about where people came from, everyone is a human being. But their is definitely an old instinct from maybe millions of years ago which used to be a helpful characteristic. PS Just a meta question: is it just me or is your speaking style, maybe even voice sounds a bit like Asian Boss ? It's such a relaxing style.
Thanks for sharing. Yeah let's hope for a more kind world... Haha my voice. I used to quite self-conscious of my voice...glad to hear it's relaxing. I love Asian Boss too!
Actually, I very much doubt she encountered real xenophobia. More a endless-barking-dogs-phobia. In the old houses the walls are thin! The Dutch are used to live quite crowded and with less privacy. They also are used in thinking about the neighbors and not disturbing them. I'm pretty sure her dogs actually were barking, when she's away, since many dogs don't like to be left on their own in the house. Living next door to that, can drive the friendliest person crazy. Out of her story, I understood, that she didn't take the problem seriously. Sort of made it into racism right away. I was truly appalled by her lack of insight and willingness to cooperate. Such a selfish person, not considering the real possibility of her dogs driving everyone crazy. So yeah, once you alienate yourself, the Dutch are direct enough to want to spit you out. Sort of have the idea, that the story you would hear from her neighbors is totally different. Really, almost all people in Amsterdam really don't care where you come from or what color you have (by the way: she is pretty white...). But if you ruin their well earned rest in the privacy of their own home? Oh boy, you're asking for it. And indeed, she got it. By the way, in the Netherlands almost all dogs go to the dog school as a puppy. There they learn to obey commands, etc. This must be, for living so close to each other AND having dogs would otherwise cause a civil war! So, if you ever get a dog, make sure you invest in his proper training at the dog school.
Hmmm, interesting. These issues could very well be said of the society as well as people in at least of the Nordic countries...or, at least as well as I've understood. Just in case you're wondering - I'm from Sweden.
On the subject of making friends, it helps expats to learn how to speak Dutch. I know, it is a difficult language, (I am an author)) but if you live in my country for over 5 years and you still cannot speak basic Dutch, you will not make many friends. I live in an apartmentbuilding with a multi cultural population and have very friendly encounters with those who speak Dutch. As a Dutch national, I married a beautiful Spanish girl and she has even more friends than I have! So, apart from culture or background, anyone can make friends in this country. Even the Columbian lady! As a former international tourguide I experienced many friendly encounters all over the world so it all depends on you, as a person, to open up your mind and heart to others and just accept the culture of the hosting country. It will be highly appreciated.
It would be interesting to know where they live in the netherlands, i do not recognize a lot of what they say. Housing is terrible everywhere. Our country if too full.
I'm British and have lived here for more than 40 years. I've had Dutch friends in the past but not anymore. I've given up trying to be friends. I have French, Hungarian, British and Cameroonian friends. One pet hate is Dutch people throwing in English sentences and words in the conversation. Stairs here are death traps and L shaped houses are so boring.
I'm Dutch and I don't have friends that don't speak Dutch, or expats that speak only their own language and some broken English. I don't really like expats to begin with. They walk around our cities in bum clothes talking their own language constantly (and loud). Besides I don't need friendships with people who will leave after a few years anyway. I have my own Dutch friends who are born here and stay here. We have our own humor and unique style of communication.
I don't understand why foreigners always think Amsterdam, Rotterdam, Utrecht when coming to The Netherlands. The housing market depends on supply and demand just like any other commercial activity. When I was living in The Netherlands back in the 50s, 60s and 70s I never lived in big cities and even less in appartments. After my mandatory military service I started to work for a big multinational pharmaceutical company in the south-east traveling all over the world as a "problem solver" for the overseas plants. So, many oportunities in other parts of The Netherlands, but you need languages and a solid professional background. Not being a UA-camr.
I invite you to come to Limburg, visit the east side and the west side of South Limburg, east is more German rooted, west has more French ties. Just the differences in being Dutch while being born and raised in the Netherlands. My partner is from Twente, I am from Limburg - there are differences in our "being" Dutch. I only need to open my mouth, people hear I am Limburgs and all I say will be perceived as lesser intellectual, just because of the accent. All the jokes in the Netherlands on the Limburgers, second best thing as Belgians, you know we make them the butt of the jokes for being stupid. Like that.
@@hidavidwen We are Dutch too, that was my point. If people talk about the Netherlands these diversities often get glossed over or over looked, or lost in translations. Also our history is very complex, and our sovereign history not that long. I am glad you loved living in Maastricht, That is the capital experience of the south of Limburg, still different form the other places we have to offer here. For me North is Friesland and Groningen, not so much both Hollands, and the Randstad, to me these are more likely referred to as West. Zeeland, and the Wadden eilanden are often more labeled on their own, the east sides of the Netherlands also a place with more of a own identity. We are a micro cosmos, why we also have been testing grounds in the Netherlands for social experiments and other experiments. Things we the natives overlook, and wanderers are not that aware about. Or place in Europe/the EU, and also our connections to America just to name the biggest fish in that pond. Not sure If you have video content highlighting aspects like these. This probably is not your demographic of the market.
8:30 When I go to France and find a job there they expect me to speak French . . . . . what a f0cking surprise ! Why should the Netherlands be different in this respect? 😂
they need to put taxes toward building housing. in America, when housing was no longer attainable, everyone got desperate and our morals crumbled around us.
The Dutch protect their privacy. Colleagues are friendly but not friends. After 5 'o clock and on weekends you don't see your colleagues, but you do see your family and neighbors. Congrats on your 5 years. Your 30% tax exemption is over. I can imagine that, for a single foreign hanger-on, it must be very difficult to create a social life, unless you become a member of an "enclave" of your own nationality and never really integrate. Also your graph at 15:50 clearly indicates where you should and should not live in The Netherlands.
@@hidavidwen It depends on what your definition of hiking is. I go walking on the countryside almost every weekend. Through marshlands, heathlands, forests, nature parks or just along footpaths through the countryside. In my area (the green heart of the urbanized west) there are small trails straight through meadows and on dykes, sometimes only a foot wide. Sometimes you’ll have to take a manual ferry across water (you will have to do some manual labor to get the little ferryboat on a cable or chain to the other side). And yeah, The Netherlands is mostly flat as a pancake so walking on mountain trails is not possible, hilly terrain at most. You’ll have to go to Germany or France for mountains, and that’s a six to eight hours drive away. You can do a stay over weekend. For day trips and in case you don’t have a car, you can take a NS-wandeltocht, there are short ones (stationsommetjes), around the train station (
Absence of nature is mainly found in the Randstad, where the cities are very close to each other. Then try the Veluwe. Try almost all of the province of Drenthe. Plenty of woods. But yeah, mountains are hard to get by here :) But how you can oversee the beach, I don't get. We are bordering the sea at half of our entire border.
It's hard because now to understand who is exactly Dutch it's a big question, that why they hidden house registration and all, that why they not opened to be your friend it's fact 😂
When I first came to NL, many years ago I didn't hear any Dutch for the first two years. People started asking me why I didn't speak Dutch and I told them you keep talking to me in English. Het is nu geen probleem en soms krijg ik complementen. Het kan beter maar ja ik ben verstaanbaar.
In about a month time I'm about to make ways the Netherlands. After watching episodes of your videos, particularly this one , I've now loose interest and growing confiscation thoughts on coming because of my race as a black. If people with white skin are complaining of making friends and finding housing, how much more a black person as myself. Kindly give me your advice as well?
Hi Franklin - I hope you still come and see For yourself. Everyone’s experiences will vary but overall, I’ve found the country to be very accepting. Though it depends on where you live. Give it a shot
When I visited Amsterdam as a tourist, the most challenging thing I experienced was "looks" from men. Not sure if that's because I'm a woman of color or something else 🤔
Hey I’m Dutch and I find amsterdam to be a very uninviting place, next time go to different cities people are nicer there! Amsterdam is just too overcrowded and cranky people
People in Amsterdam don't care abour skin colour. There are so many different cultures and varieties of people there that no one stands out. Could it be something else?
I moved here with my parents when I was three, so I speak Dutch like a native. If you speak Dutch, even if you look Asian (like me) they don’t see you as a outsider anyone once you have a good chat with them,and it’s easy to become (good) friends. They are very open, honest, and in my view, warm and loving people. If they like you they want you to participate and become part of the “gang”. I only have Dutch friends and no Asian ones😂.
Thanks for sharing. I do think language plays a big role. Age too. It’s just hard to make friends as you get older…but the language can help :)
Random question…you don’t have to answer but I’m curious…do you identify more as Dutch, Asian, or both?
@@hidavidwen hi David
I don’t have Asian friends so I guess Dutch, unless you’re talking about food, that’s definitely Asian orientated, I adore Japan and love their cuisine and culture, I also love Singapore and Hong Kong, but except for that don’t care for Chinese culture much, I do watch history docs sometimes about Chinese history, just to get an idea what my mum and dad are going on about, but then I must admit I am more familiar with British (watched way too much bbc when I grew up) and Dutch history.
Comming nxt yr too
Yes, language is a very important part. If you dont speak Dutch, you'll never be completely part of the group. If you speak without an accent, do the same things most Dutch people do, dress the same, you'll most likely be considered Dtuch. The city might be a little different from the rural parts, obviously.
agree with you. My neighbors are all dutch and they are always the ones inviting me over for dinner etc. Im the one who tends to excuse myself because i feel awkward that I don't speak the language.
Thanks for the video! I’m Dutch and living in Switzerland, so I’m also an expat. And from experience and from what I hear from other expats is that’s it’s always kind of hard to make friends from scratch, for all adults, no matter where you live. It’s simply more challenging to make friends as an adult than when you’re in your teens ot early adulthood (and still studying for example). For expats you also have to consider the language and cultural barriers on top of it. I’m a bit done with the “stereotypical” framing of Dutch people as being “cold or introverted”, as that is how Southern Europeans in general picture Northern Europeans, whereas in reality I have learned from experience that the Dutch are quite friendly (albeit “direct”) and have an open mind and show interest/curiosity in others (much more than what I see with for example, Germans, French, and Swiss people who are by far more reserved than the Dutch are). Also, it’s not that hard finding UA-cam videos of expats in Spain, with similar stories in how it’s difficult to make friends in for example Madrid, due to exactly the same factors: language and cultural barriers, and even due to some xenophobia/racism. Southern Europeans really should stop promoting themselves as the “outgoing, social, extroverted” people towards expats, because even though maybe they are like that to their own people, it’s a different story for expats living in their country…
In the end I think making friends as an expat is just challenging wherever you go due to said obstacles such as language and cultural barriers, and because of being “older” and thus not having a shared history. The one thing that actually helps a lot in Netherlands is that the Dutch at least speak English on quite a high level, which cannot be said about many other places in Europe and the rest of the world.
You're welcome and thanks for sharing! I agree...making friends as an adult is just hard.
I was talking with a few friends about this actually...if I were back home in California, would I be interested in making friends with internationals? I personally would be because I've spent quite a bit of time abroad...but I'm not so sure about most of my friends-and especially as we get older, most already have a set group of friends, and it takes a lot of energy and time to form new friends.
But yeah good reminder that these "stereotypes" are indeed stereotypes...there will be friendly people, -extroverts and introverts-everywhere. And the fact is...making friends as we get older is just plain hard.
Dutch people I've communicated with are nice and friendly. With some I've made friendships in early 20s.
But to your point, if I'm 30-40 I will be just chilling with my friends.
Yet there are statistics and pretty much all of northern Europe is in the bottom. Maybe dutch people like more stability, schedule and have satisfying relationships, which makes making friends as an adult even harder.
@@hidavidwen would you be, if those internationals would not speak English?
the biggest issue is all of them flock to the same touristic cities. Where its very hard to near impossible to intergrate well. They often have odd dialects there too which bothers even more. Such as Amsterdam or Rotterdam having their own dialect and words they use nobody else uses.
Mainly the issue is everyone speaks english and because foreigners feel comfortable to get to a escape language and using a tourist hub as a starting point you will be almost unable to make any friends or improve any actual skills we dutch have. Moving away from such cities will instantly increase chances of you being able to find and make more friends as touristic cities dont look for friends as much as its showered with new people constantly. So building a meaningful relationship is out of the question.
For everyone their information most people do not have a high respect level for anyone going to amsterdam or such. In fact the opposite is the case. Most people here already puke on those touristic cities for mutilating dutch culture and traditions. So adding yourself to the list of ignorant immigrants doesnt help.
What you see much quicker is for example if some black dude goes to the border where its low tourism more caucasian. You will see less of the blacks so he is more recognizable. the person will be easier given a chance as people like to give someone the benefit of doubt and give someone a chance. the more you go to the west, where i was born at, you get a lot of these issues.
Foreigners have a lot of issues in this video about making friends but you all set yourself up for failure.
Yes you can probably find quick work in a economic hub, but you will not be able to make more friends than you would in a calmer or less touristic city.
So the best advise to tourists is to NOT GO to touristic cities, yes you put yourself on hard mode, but you will be friends in no time. A good example channel would be
EXPLORING THE FOREIGN
Who actually first moved to the south of the country and then later to amsterdam for his own reasons. And his language improved a lot, he makes easily friends. He can talk to people and have a convo out of nothing even with his limited grammar. Let that sink in.
@@hidavidwen Also, you must never forget that you are an expat, meaning, you're just passing through. I understand you want to find friends, but have you considered how beneficial it would be to the Dutch person? Even if they like you, you are going to be gone in a couple of months. Doesn't really sound like someone you would go all in for, does it?
The poster here made some good comments. But there are relatively easy ways to make friends with Dutch people: go join a sports club, join an interest group, do activities with your children. These are accessible for all people, regardless of your background. It's also not an attractive look to complain about the people you are interested in joining.
As an Dutch person i tried many times to be friends with people that are culturally different in the Netherlands. The problem i run into is that many cultural groups are together and are not willing to make an compromis to actually include people to much. Because you dont live together you are not able to spontaneously become friends. And if i try to plan with them most of the time i'm to direct. On top of that if people agree to meet up, i've had moments that it feels forced and uncomfortable. because they seem to feel like they have to be there.
The only place i've really managed to make friends without to many issiues is in the small japanese car scene. Which is quite multi cultural.
Personally i think that the problem is that both sides don't meet out of their comfort zone. When that actually happens its easy to become friends with people from other cultures. I still have friends from all over the world from youth hostels and an international school. My best friends are located in Spain, Italy, Germany, Swiss and England.
Thanks for sharing. I get it too. We tend to be with people and groups we are more familiar with. Whether it's a shared language or mutual interest (japanese car scene). Yeah I've learned that's probably the best way to make friends...find an interest and look for people there.
Count me in..I'm from India living in Eindhoven
That's true
To fully integrate into the Dutch culture and 'inner circle' of Dutch people, I think it is important to have a decent command of the Dutch language and to participate in activities outside of work, like sports and hobbies in an organized fashion (sportsclubs for example)
Also I want to mention even for native Dutch people it can be difficult to make friends and get into new groups when they move a decent bit from their hometown. Most Dutch people have a lot of friends still from growing up and school, it can be challenging to get accepted into those groups even for Dutch people, if you do not participate in the same sport/hobby and aren't involved in any kind of community collective.
Joining a sportsclub and showing up every match and training, no matter the weather or if you even want to, will create a bond and stories you share. Only showing up for social events will not cut it, in a group of 10 people you will be the 1 that was there that evening for a drink, while the rest already played a football match in the rain and mud that afternoon. (purely hypothetical ofcourse, just an example)
In my opinion we Dutch are also to 'blame', we are way to eager to keep talking English to foreign people, making it harder for them to learn the Dutch language, if not harder at the best it will just take you way longer to get a grip on the Dutch language.
I must say I appreciate your videos for the professional, respectful and polite approach, while also showing good follow-up questions, to make it easy for the people in your video to share and show their true experience, keep it up!
Thanks for writing and for the kind words!
@@hidavidwenSecond that. You’re video’s are excellent. I like them a lot.
Making friends as an adult is harder... regardless of country.
Thanks Stefan. Yeah it's so true...
No it’s not true. Spreek de waarheid Stefan geen leugens in Nederland is het moeilijk om vrienden te maken ook als je jong bent
@@lc2014 beginnen met mensen beschuldigen van liegen is al geen goede start.
@@lc2014 lees even goed voordat je mensen beschuldigt van liegen, je komt nu een beetje dom over
@@lc2014 niet mee eens
I am Dutch, and i think most of the things that Expats or foreigners struggle with has to do with the language. It is a huge barrier for me to really be friends and see eachother regularly if you dont speak Dutch. That is to say, we can be friends and hang out, but it will be separate from my bigger group of friends. Like me and my girlfriend and you and yours, or a smaller group of friends from a certain context. This is because once a non Dutch speaker is present, everyone kinda feels obliged to speak English. Also a big reason is because my friends and me like boardgames, and having a person not speak Dutch is just making that much more complicated.
Also, i know someone from Portugal who lives here for more then 10 years now, and still doenst speak Dutch. I dont like this. It gives me the feeling that this person is just here for a phase in their life and doesnt bother to learn the language. It is egocentric. Like an extended work/holiday. I think this has kept me from investing into a friendship with this person or similair people. Dutch friends often go way back, with some minor adjustments over the years. New people definitely join the group, so it is possible for sure!
So yes, learn Dutch! I really believe it will be much and much easier to truly call Nederland your home.
Thanks for sharing! Yes that is my 2023 goal. Oh wow, I guess I just committed to someone here haha. I tried during lockdown...but it was too difficult in front of computer all day (work + class).
It's just really hard to learn (especially if one lives in Amsterdam) because everyone speaks English and will switch to English as soon as they find out you are a foreigner...so it's really hard to practice. But it's doable!
@riverbend Indeed. Guess the Dutch are kind enough to welcome strangers. But to become real friends, one needs some proof of the other person investing in what's important to you. You are 'too good' to bother to learn our language? Then you will have a hard time finding friends. But if you really try, even when you botch up a lot, we will close you in our hearts for trying and go out of our way to help you. It's supposed to be a two-way-street. We open the door of our hearts a bit to almost everyone. But then you have to do your part and show your commitment. Then the door will open further and further.
@Mariaqueque Vell Sorry you have found people impatient with you. I know many others and I myself, who are patient and willing to help you learn.
But I can think of certain settings in which a person holds up a line or something like that, where there is indeed not the possibility to be patient. Learn those phrases well or stick to English for now in those cases.
Real nice that you try! I appreciate that. Good luck with your studies and have a nice time here.
Most Dutch people don’t encourage others to speak Dutch. Most Dutch people just respond back in English or discriminate against accents.
For me, when a person is even born here, yet, tries to speak with an accent becasue of identity reasons, it has a lot of social consequences. The same for having only friends of your own group, or only marrying within it. It gives this sign that you're not really planning on becoming fully Dutch, but want to hang on to your own culture. This has serious implications in my opinion, but youre free to do so ofcourse. However, when one does try to speak Dutch without , and doesnt mostly try to stick to their own minority group, you'll most likely be regarded as fully Dutch by most people. However, some minority groups dont seem to like this, as they'll call people who assimilated ''cheeseheads'' or ''white washed''. Its clearly viewed in a negative way.
These interviews were really good. I absolutely love the context and in depth explanations of each unique perspective. Everyone was lovely to learn from.
Thanks for the kind words!
I grew up in NL , as foreigner is good to learn dutch, The dutch people they feel so proud when a foreigner speak their language. For example if let's say we apply the same job and one speak dutch and the other not even though the one who speak english has more experience they'll will choose the one who speak dutch. If you don't speak dutch they feel you're not investing in them and why should they invest in you
True! Helps a lot to learn the language
We appreciate it when someone takes the time to learn Dutch. Many Dutch people do speak English, but we usually do not want to talk English all the time in our group if you could invest some time in learning Dutch. I won't say Dutch is easy or hard, those terms are relative, at least I can say that the language doesn't have so many declinations and conjugations, thus it's certainly a language that is possible to learn in a couple of years when you already speak English.
I rather get the feeling that a lot of these issues are simply "immigration issues" that would be the same in a lot of the world. If I were to move to any of their countries I would think I would have a hard time making friends as well, especially living in a big city where everyone's always busy and wants to spend free time with family and already established friends (mostly as the Somali woman said childhood/school friends).
@@Ash-cb8qu "A lot of these issues" doesn't mean "all of these issues". There are random idiots who go out of their way to discriminate all over the world.
I'm Dutch. I moved from Delft to Zwolle when I was a single mom, working 32 hours a week. It took me years to get some friends in Zwolle: the only things I did was working, taking care of my son and keeping my house clean.
If you want to get to know Dutch people, the best thing is to join a church, a sports club (preferrably get involved in a team sport), a choir or a social club like NMLK. NMLK stands for 'Nieuwe Mensen Leren Kennen', which means Getting to Know New People'. With NMLK you can join several activities, but also organize activities yourself. One thing: the people there tend to speak Dutch, but are really open for contact.
There you meet the Dutch, but becoming friends takes time, that's what I found out myself.
Thanks Annelies for sharing. Yeah I’m inspired by the fact that you were able to make friends while being a single mother and working. It’s not easy.
Joining a church is hardly a way to meet dutch people... maybe in the bible belt.
I am Dutch and I befriended expats of many kinds in my badminton club. There are many kinds of different clubs that would make being accepted and even befriended so much easier.
Thanks for sharing Vincent. I think that’s the key…doing things that you enjoy doing and hopefully you’ll meet people there
May I ask which club and where this is? Maybe I can join as well haha
Personally I think language should not be an argument. If you decide to move to a foreign country to live, work or study there, than obviously that is your choice. You choose where you wanted to go, than doesn't it make sense to learn the language of that foreign country ??? Besides that, Dutch people in general do speak English and often German or French as well. Which means communication should in general not be a problem.
Thanks for sharing your perspective. The difficulty is that most Dutch people speak fluent English...so it's really hard to practice! Haha but no excuses, no excuses.
I think that language is a key barrier. Someone who doesn't speak Dutch unconsciously gets put in a 'foreigner' bucket by many Dutch. The days when the Dutch were all the same phenotype or cultural background are long gone. What makes one Dutch these days in my opinion is language and a set of norms one should adhere to. Perfect Dutch is not required, just the effort is hugely appreciated and will open the hearts of many Dutch I would think.
When trying to befriend someone you like, it can take some perseverance. Don't be discouraged too easily: Dutch can be rather standoffish at first.
As a Dutch person I find it quite enlightening to read about foreigner's experiences trying to fit in and connect with Dutchies. A lot of the things brought forward I can relate to. Yes, Dutch people tend to be quite reserved and we do have very organised lifes and we can be blunt at times. The housing situation is ridiculous, especially in the western parts of the Netherlands. I managed to buy a house recently, but that was only possible after a decent payrise. Most expats and foreign students tend to stay in the Netherlands for only a finite amount of time and Dutch don't like to invest in friendships when its only for the short term. We like meaningful and deep friendships, not something superficial. When we ask how somebody is doing we tend to be really interested and it's not something we ask out of politeness but we're not really interested in what said person is actually doing. Like some people pointed out already, it's quite hard to form meaningful friendships with people once you get older due to other commitmens like work, kids and whatnot. Keep up the good work, David!
Thanks Raymond. The housing situation is really ridiculous like you said...I've moved 4 times already...and it's always a big headache...and stressful. And making friends...I think that's just harder as we get older too. I see that with trying to maintain my friendships back in California too...people with families and other responsibilities...there's just no time and space to make new friends
I recently had a chat with my mom about socializing, friendships and loneliness. We both agreed that we don't have the social bandwidth anymore to make new friends. We're satiated. Our agendas are filled with work and intense coworker relationships. We have our families and kids and community roles and community care. Partnerroles and a couple of really tight friendships. We're full. We can always have a chat but to get to the point of a deep compassionate empathetic friendship or just hanging out regularly... we don't have the time anymore. Our agendas are always full. That's why we plan meetups weeks in advance, so we can really take that time to get close and intimate with you. 😊 I am really sorry once again to hear about the xenophobia. As a culture and as individuals we still have so much to learn about the ways we inflict pain onto others. 💔
Thanks for sharing Annette. Oh yes I know about those agendas! Yeah I also think it’s harder to make friends once you get older too. Especially if you move away from home. That’s always a big challenge..
Thanks for another video David! You mentioned you are introverted in another video, so am I. I feel like the Dutch being tough to make friends as a plus? How has your experience been as an introvert in a Dutch society been? Maybe a topic for another video? Seems like an introverted paradise for someone with an engineering brain.
Thanks so much. Haha yes, I am definitely an introvert. Being an introvert here definitely helps-especially with the gloomy winters and COVID (some of my more extroverted friends had a really tough time). But I personally value and need human connection. I love people and meeting new people as well-just in small groups =) Otherwise, my energy batteries become drained really quickly
I'm Dutch, living in Leiden, and I can confirm that it is difficult to make friends here especially after university. My own friends have moved away over the years and as a result I've moved more into the expat scene in the last decade (most social meetups here are for internationals). The expat community here is very welcoming of people of all sorts. But it has its own challenges. People tend to leave after a few years, so it is difficult to make long term friendships. And as you say at the end, the cultural differences can lead to different expectations and misunderstandings, and this is sometimes hard to navigate. I have not met a lot of Dutch people in the expat community (a little more since the pandemic), and I do sometimes miss that shared sense that you get when you are friends with someone who grew up in the same culture. But at the same time these differences also make the expat scene very colorful and interesting.
Thanks for sharing. Oh yeah...I can relate myself. It gets harder in general to make friends once we get older. Especially once people start having families (my age group at the moment).
I get you too...there's something about bonding with someone from the same culture. But I've also learned and have grown so much by meeting from other cultures-whether it's living abroad or traveling. Best of both worlds!
But yeah you're not alone!
I live in the province of Noord-Brabant and my brother in law, who commutes her for work from Delft where he lives, tells me ppl here are very open about their private lives. He was pleasantly surprised to notice collageaus here take a genuine interest in his private life. Where he use to work in the Amsterdam region that wasnt the case he said. I found that very interesting to hear. Maybe you could ask expats from Tilburg/Eindhoven/Den Bosch about their experiences? Would be very interesting to watch.
Thanks for sharing Naz and for the idea. I think its true everywhere…people in bigger cities are less open!
Oh dear. I'm Dutch. Lived in Tilburg for a while. Worst experience in me living in 6 different provinces in the Netherlands! The people are friendly in your face, but they scheme behind your back. They get easily jealous and lie and slander to bring you down. The province of North-Brabant is especially nice to the drunk, and yes, they open up even too much then. But if you want to get your trust betrayed and your heart broken, it's the very best province to move to.
@@hidavidwen Especially Amsterdam is sort of flooded with tourists and also expats. It can be too much, you know. So, although of origin the people of Amsterdam were of the most open kind, they have started to see the flood on foreigners as a bit of a burden. When they see you, they see work. They'll behave at work. But many don't want to bring their work into their private lives too much. A drink at the bar at happy hour is fine, that is not very deep though. Real friendships do happen, but are harder to form. They just want some rest :)
@@hidavidwenthere are parts of the Netherlands you really don't want to live because the people don't like outsiders. I come from Rotterdam and move to Zutphen terrible people you are a outsider and don't belong there. I am a Dutch women discriminated in my own county unbelievable. After 1.5 years I moved back to Rotterdam.
A lot of parts of Gelderland and Overijssel are terrible to live if you are not born there.
Hello David, the steep stairs are only in Amsterdam and other big old cities with very very old houses. Other houses have normal stairs. Also outside Amsterdam you have bigger and cheaper houses with gardens and lot of place.
It's not so crowded.
About making new friends, yes that is difficult also for a Dutch. You have to have a click and it will help if you have some shared interests and or hobbies.
For expats , join a club . This will help making friends easier and quicker.
Thanks so much for your reply. I personally like the steep stairs (as it's quite unique and I like the physical challenge).
Yeah about making new friends...it's not easy (especially as you get older-something I'm learning). Having that click is so important
@@hidavidwen maybe you like them bc it's an experience for you.
My aunt had these stairs, climbing them as a kid still haunts me to this day xD. At least once in my 20s I've had a nightmare about them so far.
@CAPTAIN HOOK Thanks for taking the time to respond. Yeah I've learned there's a difference between being rude and being direct. Important to differentiate.
Hi David, thanks for another great video. It's really inspiring to see and hear about a country through different perspectives. I hope to visit and maybe one day live in The Netherlands.
You're welcome Garrett and thanks! Yeah I'm also learning from other people/cultures as well. If you have any topics you'd like me to explore, feel free to throw them my way!
Great vid. I love to watch this kind of videos about the Netherlands as Dutch person. Remarkable is the fact that while the trend in this vid is that making Dutch friends is hard, in a couple of other youtube videos I've seen the opposite seems to be true. I cannot really explain the difference. Maybe it has to do with what is perceived as close relations. What counts as a friendship here, maybe only felt as a surrogate friendship when one comes from a culture were bonds between people are stronger or more intense to begin with. Than again, I know a lot of people who are the opposite. So in the end you gotta just roll with the dices and make the best of it. Don't expect and just enjoy what you get.
Thanks and yeah, having low expectations can be a great recipe for happiness :)
Awesome interview man. I like the way you directed it. It's like watching a documentary. I am an Asian and this video gave me some perspective to not go to the Netherlands.
Thanks for the kind words! Let me know what other ideas or topics you’d be interested in learning about
Language is always the key. Recently we were in Paris and needed help. Having a good grasp of French (I am Dutch) it is just wonderful how open, helpful and friendly Parisians are when you speak their language. Same experience elsewhere with German. I'm glad I speak 5
I have an 8/10 score on my highschool diploma for both written and spoken French. A couple of years after graduating I went to Normandy and for the life of me couldn't get any sentence together other than the default cookie cutter phrases. Even though, just trying to speak French already gave me a huge leg up on English only speakers. When my broken French faulted French natives actually started helping me find the words, whereas English only speakers were straight ignored most of the time by anyone not directly in the conversation.
How to make friends in Netherlands?
Just like anywhere else:
Find something in common. A hobby, sport, passion, dance club, etc. Talk to some stranger.
Most Dutch find friends these ways in addition to their school/university, which as an expat you are unlikely able to rely on (unless you did go to class in NL).
The stairs were my worst nightmare in Amsterdam! When you fall on them, your body slides to the bottom-not good for old people! you can't imagine how many old people have died on those stairs.
For your social contacts in the Netherlands. Speaking a foreign language is difficult, but understanding a foreign language is very much easier. If you reach the level that you understand most of what is said in Dutch, you can say to your friends: please speak Dutch to me. You speak English, they talk Dutch.
I have a German friend, he speaks it poorly, but understands Dutch quite reasonably. So, he speaks German to me and I speak Dutch to him and that is so much more comfortable. Only now and then we have to ask, what did you say? What’s the meaning of that word? Most Dutchmen understands English, but having a conversation in English all the time is too difficult. Its really rewarding to understand Dutch, so that they can speak Dutch to you. It will making friends easier. For friends you could look nearby. Some of my neighbours and former co-worker are friends now.
Thanks so much. Yeah that’s a beautiful thing…where you can connect through different languages. I can just imagine that right now. Some of my closest friends I’ve made so far are also from work.
The introvert part depends wether your north of the rivers or south of the rivers. South it's easier to make friends, but harder to keep them while north it's harder to make them but easier to keep.
Great video. I bumped into your channel by accident and love the videos.
Thanks a lot for the motivation, appreciate it =)
Ja, de meeste mensen praten "Netherlands "
Jah, Ik zit nu al 4 weken thuis. Omdat er door, een Babilo. Iemand met een heftruck over mijn voet gereden is. Jah, Ik ben een geboren Nederlander! En spreek Engels en Frans en een beetje Duits en Italiaans. MAAR ,ALS JE HIER WIL WERKEN EN WONEN!!! LEER NEDERLANDS!!!
Dat maakt alles veel makkelijker. Groetjes uit Spakenburg,Nederland.
As a dutchman I have to say it truly depends on were you live. If u live for example near big student city's people are more familiar with internationals.
True! Thanks for sharing Finn
To the lady from Columbia, I’m so sorry to hear your challenges. I’ll pray for you, many non immigrant doesn’t know how difficult it is to move to a new country.
I'm from Poland and my experience is opposite. Most dutch people are really nice, smiling most of the time, helpful, friendly.
I can't even compare them to polish without insulting most of my nation. Housing situation sucks but that's all and I have few dutch addresses where I'm just welcome. Maybe my expectations aren't high, but it's a huge upgrade.
I think it might very much depend on where in the Netherlands you live. I'm native Dutch myself and whenever I'm in a "big" city I really see a disconnect between those people and the people in my smallish town (or people from smaller towns/villages in general). Since these interviews were probably done near Amsterdam the culture is really different from where I'm from (Gelderland) for example.
@@stysner4580 small town south west of Rotterdam. Imo big cities suck in almost every country, tho Oslo in Norway was really cool to live in. Very peaceful
Because poles work hard and do not walk around with a chip on their shoulder unlike this lot.
There is a big difference between being friendly and being friends. Being friendly is common. Being friends is not. I reckon most Dutch people only have a handful of others they consider friends. I have a friend that I haven't seen or spoken to in years, but I know I can rely on her in need. On the other hand: I have quite a number of people that I'm friendly with and see on a really regular basis but wouldn't call friends. I invite them to dinner, to my birthday party etc; but friends? Not truly. So it's also a matter of expectations.
Language is very important. Getting a message across in another language isn't difficult. Joking and making fun is difficult in another language, and you need to be able to joke with friends. Moreover, you need to feel that the other is able to handle your directness.
Other aspect count as well. Friends you can trust, but how is someone without an agenda trustable? We like simple and efficient. So: having a bike is way better than having a SUV/BMW or another impractical contraption. Knowing you're on the same page in these things makes it easier to become friends.
Thanks for sharing your perspective! Language is a big one. Essentially, culture is language and vice versa
The the big question ofcourse is why would i wanna be your friend ? What have you to offer what a not already have ? And that goes for everyone not only for expats but also for "native"dutch.
Big question :)
I live in the Netherlands, and ye most of my friends we're childhood friends, now that I've become an adult i don't have any friends anymore
And ye making new friends is very difficult
Yeah Kazuna...I think that's universal...it gets harder to make friends once we become older...not impossible...just harder...hopefully the friends we DO make are quality friends though
1. This is not about living in the Netherlands as a foreigner but: living in ANY country as a foreigner! Anyone who goes abroad always has the same complaint: people are not open, it is difficult making friends ect. ect. I never heard otherwise from Dutchies going abroud. That is just how humans are.
2. They probably all live in Amsterdam. Even for most Dutchies Amsterdam is a cold and harsh place. Amsterdammer's never leve the A10, so Amsterdam is its own universe
3. Funny to hear them all complain about the housingmarket, use that as an opener, because it is universal in the Netherlands (for young people) :P. The population in the Netherlands whould already started shrinking since 2010/2015 (more deaths, less births) if not for migration. The Dutch goverment has seriously under-estimated the migrantnumbers (in 2018 they still predictad shrinkage) and deregulated the housingmarket, so supply did not keep up with demand.
Thanks for sharing Ruud. Yeah making friends is hard just in general...and I've found it gets harder as we get older too...
The Columbian woman throws everything on xenophobia, but I can assure her, that when your dogs bark for hours, when you are away, that will drive anyone crazy. That has nothing to do with xenophobia. Everything to do with a specific problem of your dogs. The neighbors of my parents had a new dog and it would howl for hours. With thin walls, you hear everything. The pup basically could not be left alone. My mother kindly talked with the neighbor, but she wouldn't believe her at first, so nothing was done. But the quality of life of my mother was really badly influenced, so she tried again. Finally the neighbors were civil enough to check it and of course my mother was right. They apologized and received special dog training and advise to help the dog come at ease.
Now, of course, when you let your neighbors down like that, they at some time lose all affinity for you and indeed hope you move out. Maybe even exaggerate, just to 'help' the uncivil woman to want to relocate.
But I guess it is much easier to blame everything on your neighbors and call them xenophobic and racist. What a very dislikable response.
In Amsterdam we have 120 nationalities so being Dutch nowadays is very different than 20 years ago. E.g. in shops it is quite normal they approach you in english. However in other areas this will be different.
True! How was Amsterdam 20 years ago??
@@hidavidwen in the seventies and eighties of the previous century people from Suriname, Morocco and Turkey came to Amsterdam and this changed the population. From a monoculture the city changed to a multicultural society.
Seems as if the Netherlands is not as ideal as people like to make it look. thanks for shining this bright light of reality.
There are pros and cons of every place!
What do you find the most challenging about life in the Netherlands?
Portuguese people are also very closed. It's the only place I lived where I didn't make local friends.
Spanish people are a lot friendlier.
Thanks for sharing Teddy. I’ve found the Portuguese to be quite open and friendly. I guess you’ll find open and closed people in every culture
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Taal - dit lijkt eigenlijk in alle thema's naar boven te komen, van vriendschap tot huizing, en werk. Waarom is het spreken van de landstaal zo belangrijk, en toonend van respect voor het land en diens cultuur? Taal en de geschiedenis van het land en diens cultuur en sub-culturen zijn met elkaar verweven. Denk aan orale geschiedenis, folklore, spreekwoorden en gezegden. Ik ben een geboren en getogen Limburger, maar had als kind geen streek dialect geleerd - dit was waarom ik voor Huillander werd uitgemaakt, wat een woordspeling is voor Hollander. Waarom is taal zo belangrijk voor mensen en onze relaties - interacties. En waarom is miscommunicatie nummer een boosdoener in ontstaan van problemen met/binnen relaties? Dat is waarom! Denk er maar eens over na.
Waarom ik ook bewust in het Nederlands mijn reactie geef. Mede omdat ik snap dat het ook gaat om het overbrengen van de boodschap is er de vertaling, dubbel werk, maar graag gedaan.
Vriendschap; dit is iets wat tijd nodig heeft, en gedeelde ervaringen en levensopvattingen, vandaar dat dit veelal vanuit de jeugd wordt opgebouwd, dit is heel normaal en menselijk. Socialisatie en verschillende vormen van, vergeet niet dat het LAGE LANDEN, Nederland is Netherlands, meervoud van landen is. Een unie van de Lage landen. Waarom Nedeland zo divers is ondanks het kleine formaat, waarom wij ook zijn gaan kolonializeren om meer land te hebben, meer bronnen voor het bemachtigen van onze identiteit en vrijheid.
Een verschil is hierbij dat Nederland niet iedereen een vriend noemt, wij zijn bekent met het woord kennis. Wij hebben kennissen, collega's en vrienden & familie. In sommige culturen is iedereen die je kent als "vriend" betiteld. Waarbij kennen een groot woord is, van zien of echt als persoon. Dat is niet Nederlands. Eventueel spelen andere geschied aspecten hierbij ook een rol, verraad in WOII, en de turbulente ontstaansgeschiedenis van Nederland. Geboren en getogen, en ik vind het net zo moeilijk om echt vrienden te maken, waarbij ik niet de enige ben. Wij stuiten op dezelfde wortel dat vriendschappen veelal over tijd gesmeed raken.
Gereserveerd (introvert zoals de Portugees het zei) heeft waarschijnlijk ook voor delen te maken met onze geschiedenis, Nederland bestaat opzichzelf net enkele honderden jaren, en is in de geschiedenis in de handen van vele machthouders/-hebbers geweest.
Ik weet dat er in een andere video is aangegeven dat de open ramen Calvinistisch zijn, maar het Zuiden is Katholiek, en wij hadden dit ook, maar als overblijfsel van de Duitse bezetting - toen was het verboden om gordijen open te hebben - de Duitsers moesten ten alle tijden het huis door kunnen kijken.
Dus dit soort eventueel sub-culturele verschillen verwoven in de "Nederlandse cultuur".
Ik weet hoe moeilijk het voor mij was om in 2003 een woning te bemachtigen. Als een alleenstaande jonge man, waarbij er voorrang was voor van alles, wat ook begrijpelijk is deels, maar ik had ook een woning nodig, geboren en getogen hier. Dat is alleen erger geworden in de tijd, als je mij vraagt, met verschillende redenen, waarbij deels al dezelfde als twintig jaar geleden. Geld - de huizenmarkt, bij een tekort kan er meer gevraagd worden. De anti-kraak van tegenwoordig, ik heb in het begin in deze settings geleefd. En met de kraak bewegingen van de jaren 60's 70's & 80's in Nederland bijvoorbeeld.
Hier hebben de mensen zo te horen geen kaas van gegeten, (geen kennis van/over)
Burgerschap is een heel divers thema, welke hierbij sterk verbonden is. Immers leven, wonen en werken ze in Nederland.
De Nederlandse identiteit, en de Nederlandse sub-identiteiten - sub-culturele Nederlandse steek identiteiten, waarbij de non-Nederlandse identiteiten nog weer een extra identiteits toevoeging hebben welke De Nederlander niet heeft.
Ik ben Nederlander, maar boven dit ben ik Limburger, Zuid Limburger om precies te zijn, dit is mijn identiteit (in Nederland).
Language - this seems to surface in all the topics, from friendship to housing, and work. Why is the speaking of the countries language so important, and a showing of respect for the country and its culture? Language and the history of the country and its culture and sub-cultures are interwoven with each other. Think about oral-history, folklore, proverbs and sayings. I am a born and raised Limburger, but as a child I had not learned the local dialect - this is why I was labeled Huillander, which is a wordplay on Hollander. Why is language so important for people and our relations - interactions. And why is miscommunication number one culprit in the cause of problems with/within relations? That is why! Think about this for a second.
Why I also deliberately give my response in Dutch. Because I also understand it is about getting your message across there is the translation, double the effort, but my pleasure.
Friendship; this is something that needs time, and shared experiences and takes on life, why this mostly is built upon from youth, this is very normal and human. Socialization and different variants, don't forget that it is LOW LANDS, Netherlands = Netherlands {In Dutch it is singular, in German, France, English it is plural) A union from Low lands. Why the Netherlands are so divers despite the small size, why we also started to colonize to get more land, have more sources to obtain our own identity and freedom.
A difference with this is that in the Netherlands we don't call everybody our "friend", we are familiar/acquainted with the word acquaintance. We have acquaintances, colleagues and friends & family. In some cultures everyone you know is labeled "friend". Here knowing is a big word, from seen around or really as a person. This is not Dutch. Probably other historic aspects play part in this, ... (snitching, ratting out, betrayal, treason, treachery]... in WWII, and the turbulent birthing/creation history of the Netherlands.
Born and raised, and I find it equally difficult to make real friends, and I am not the only one. We encounter the same root that friendships mostly are forged over time.
Reserved (introverted as Portuguese said it) probably also in parts has to do with our history, the Netherlands exists as is just a few hundred years, and is in been in the hands of multiple rulers. (Roman, French, Spanish, German, etc.)
I know that in a different video there was said that the open windows are Calvinistic, but the South is Catholic, and we also have this, but as a remnant of the German occupation - at that time it was forbidden too have curtains open - the Germans had to be able to look through your house at all times. These types of probable sub-cultural differences interwoven into the "Dutch culture".
I know how difficult it was for me to get a living space for myself in 2003. As a single young male, with there being precedence for different things, also understandable in part, but I also was in need for a living space, born and raised here - and at the end of the precedence line. This only got worse over time, if you ask me, with multiple reasonings, were in part the same as already 20 years ago. Money - the housing market, with a shortage they can ask more. The anti-kraak (anti-squatting) of now days - I lived in these types of arrangements in the beginning. And with the squatting movements in the 60's, 70's, and 80's in the Netherlands as an example.
It sounds like the people have no knowledge of this.
Civilian - ship, is a whole diverse topic, which is strongly connected to all this. After all, they live and work in the Netherlands.
The Dutch identity, and the Dutch Sub-identities - sub-cultural Dutch identities of locality, and the non-Dutch identity is an extra layer in the identity which The Dutch don't have.
I am Dutch, but above that I am from Limburg, South Limburg to be correct, my identity within the Netherlands.
It's interesting to me that the two main takeaways are things that are challenging to native Dutch people as well, though of course they are exacerbated by being from a different background.
Housing is a big issue at the moment for all people living in The Netherlands. There are definitely more protection for renters than in for example the US, but prices are high and it's hard to find places, and buying is ridiculous at the moment. But once you start adding the harder communication through language and cultural barriers, that the laws are different, that expats often have less of a support network and that they are unlikely to want to live away from the city where housing is cheaper, it does indeed become even harder.
And then making friends. I do believe that at the moment, adults in the West in general are struggling to make new friends, and even more so in The Netherlands. And for expats anywhere, making new friends is an extra challenge. So yeah, it does all make sense.
Thanks for sharing Jasper. I’ve never seen a housing market so crazy competitive (well I can only compare to the US). And yeah making friends as adults…just hard in general!
Language is the key I'm sure. Although al lot of Dutch people speak and understand English it's a sign of respect and that you're invested, if you try to learn their language. In restaurants in the big cities there are a lot of foreigners working nowadays, learn at least a few key sentences Dutch, that's the start of making a connection (also with your neighbours) and get to know what the general MO is of the country you're gonna live in. A Dutch saying goes like this: "'s Lands wijs 's Lands eer"
Yeah I think language is a key factor in any culture...to integrate. Even though most Dutch speak fluent English...it's not the same as one's native language
I do feel like many of the difficulties described here are more general European difficulties and not specifically associated with The Netherlands. Like the housing situation unfortunately is also quite bad in other rich Western European countries. Try finding an apartment in London, Hamburg, Paris, etc.. it's difficult and very expensive.
And when moving into a small apartment with 2 dogs (sounds like that lady lives in an old house build early or mid 20th century, so at least 60 years old). In the Netherlands dogs are typically not owned by people who live in such small apartments (without a garden). It sucks for the dogs themselves and the walls/floors are so thin everyone around you can hear you. Neighbours are not family or friends, just random people who happen to live next to you by coincidence. Obviously they give you a hard time when you produce too much noise over a prolonged period of time . Not because they are *ssholes. But because they can hear your dogs barking while they are in their own living room relaxing after a hard days work. As a Dutchie I often find that foreigners have less environmental/situational awareness about these things. They just do whatever/whenever they want and aren't really aware the apartments above/below/left/right can hear exactly what they are doing..
Privacy just comes at a premium im afraid. Just as countries like Japan, the country is very densely populated. And not only that, most of the people are concentrated in the "Randstad" region, made up roughly by the 4 largest cities: Amsterdam, Rotterdam, The Hague and Utrecht in the central-west part of The Netherlands. It really comes down to being very wealthy to be able to afford privacy like a free-standing family home with a private garden surrounding the property like you find in a typical middle-class suburb in the US. Luckily working from home becomes ever more poplular and The Netherlands certainly has more rural areas where land is obviously a lot cheaper, so there are options.
Thanks Sander. Yeah I’ve read that many are moving to smaller towns (everywhere in the world) due to remote working. It makes sense too…being a very densely populated country…you’re not going to have a lot of space!
This is a nice video
Thanks Wawa =)
The issues with making friends with Dutch people sounds like the same as here in North Dakota USA. With people who are not used to traveling , they tend to want to stick to their comfort zone and same friend group from childhood years. I have noticed too, that I have to be extra outgoing for a time when moving to a new place or else there will be no traction with getting to know people. Bascially people who have lived one place all their lives, have friends and family nearby, may feel they don't need to make more friends. Whereas travelers like us enjoy making friends wherever we go and keep in touch over the years. I think it's important to acknowledge that friends don't have to always live close by and who knows maybe a friend made in Netherlands will come on future travels. People just need to be open to all kinds of friendships ❤
Generally Dutch people make friends at school for life. A second chance is when you have children going to school and you as a parent can make friends with other parents. But that's it, generally. For Dutch people, friendship is a cherished thing. They don't treat it lightly, and generally friends are for life, just like a marriage. So, it is very challenging for a Dutch person (with friends already) to have that deep felt contact with people from a different culture that might not speak the language perfectly. Is that xenophobic? I don't think so, but I can imagine that people from outside perceive it that way.
Thanks Ronald. That’s what I’ve also learned. Similarly, I can understand. I think in general…it’s just hard to make friends as adults
It's not xenophobic per se but it is a somewhat closed culture. A more open culture is welcoming of newcomers. For example, if people move to a new city for work in the USA - their new co-workers will usually invite them out or show them the city. This is not always the case but Americans generally are interested in embracing the new or novel whereas many other cultures are not. This makes it easier for newcomers to find their place and comfort zone.
@@vmoses1979 Yes but you wouldn't describe these co-workers as your friends, would you? If you want to find friends that automatically means you don't only want shallow relationships, which is what you're describing.
@@koenkeep Not all co-workers will be real friends but since Americans spend so much time working - your co-workers figure prominently in one's day to day life. Friendship develops over time as you spend days together and have common experiences. But if like the Dutch model your co-workers have a fixed set of school friends and keep colleagues at arm's length - of course all interactions will be superficial and no deeper friendship is possible. The openness of Americans and their desire to meet 'new' people allows a person to develop a network or a set of friends in a new city particularly through the workplace.
BTW - I don't know how it is in the Netherlands but most people in North America meet spouses or significant others through the workplace. This necessarily means people are open to a more meaningful relationship rather than something superficial.
@@vmoses1979 But you do not choose these people to be around begin with. Dutch people choose whether they want to be with the people they want to be around with.
And meeting your spouse through the work space is a potential recipe for disaster. It could force you to uproot not only your 'work friends', your work and relationship if things go awry.
Language is always a big part of the problem of fitting in. Even though most Dutch speak English they are, of course more comfortable speaking their own language. I'm an American/Dutch person and I've lived here for 40+ years. There are so many ex-pats in Amsterdam and the bigger cities that it's also easier for us to become part of English speaking groups. I gravitate to English speakers, even though I speak Dutch well. The Dutch are basically very sociable I think, though they are much less extrovert, flamboyant, excessively emotional than some other nationalities. Nuchterheid is a national trait that is highly valued. If you look it up they'll translate it as sobriety, but it's also non-sentimental, no excess emotion. Doe normaal, ja?
Im dutch and i have problems making dutch friends😂 we're a stubborn bunch.
Haha, making friends in general is hard.........but I guess if you can make a Dutch friend, that's a big win
I like the Indian Guy and the Portugese guy the most. The womans I do not like that much.
Your interviewing work can still have some work to be done. But it's getting better.
Good video.
Thanks Remco! And for the feedback. That's good to hear...that I still have lots to learn =)
Anything specific you can recommend to help me become a better interviewer?
Especially the first lady from Colombia is saying some stupid things. Not even going to elaborate on this.
finding housing is hard even for dutch people, but the somalian woman saying most jobs are dutch speaking, yeah if i go to somalia how many dutch speaking jobs will there be?
Housing in The Netherlands is basically a challenge to really everybody in The Netherlands, so also to the locals as well ! And yes Dutch really is the language here. And as long as you do not speak Dutch you will barely have access to Dutch friends. See with friends one becomes personal and becoming personal you do in the language you know best and in the Netherlands this is and will always be: Dutch and nothing else !
Do not forget that we already have friends we have had for our entire life, so we do not need you to be added to this group of friends, especially when you do not speak the language of the country; we all speak. So want to make a chance to get into a existing group of Dutch friends who know each other for several decades ..? Start by learning to speak fluently Dutch, just like we all do here. No more English ! , no really ! Remember that the effort will have to come from you!
But yes, I agree that the Dutch (and me as well) live by our agenda 😅, everyone is just very busy😊
Yea “The Agenda”!! Good when you need things planned though…
I am using your videos as prep for a visit to Holland that I left 65 years ago as a child when our family emigrated to Canada. I retain the language though I now speak dutch with an anglicized lilt. I enjoy the multicultural aspect of your interviews. I'm curious however about the experience of less educated, less articulate folks who move to Holland from places like Morocco or Turkey. Have you interviewed Muslim folks interacting with the Calvinist culture and the promise and challenges of that? Thank you for your videos.
Thanks for sharing Nick. Oh wow, 65 years ago...if you were here in-person, would love to have a conversation with you!
Thanks for the idea, I will add that to the list as there is a big population of minorities in the Netherlands too...I'm also very curious!
And hope you have a great trip back to Holland...I'm sure it will be very special
Totally agree with the man from India. The housing situation is indeed very challenging. In fact, my husband and I are Dutch, but we cannot afford to live in our own country. From our income, we are unable to find affordable housing. So now we live in neighboring Germany. But when you think the Dutch are hard to befriend, you have not met the Germans. They are very closed off. Their mentality still in the range of what caused two world wars in the last century. So this is no permanent solution for us.
Back to the man from India. Expats have found time and again, that when they really try to learn the language, it's easier to make friends. He might want to try that. He's obviously smart. But having lived her five years now, he ought to be fluent in Dutch by now. Well, perhaps he is and this interview had to be in English. Just repeating what I heard of what seems to help.
We ourselves went to Romania for a few years. A totally different and quite challenging language. We studied hard and were semi-fluent within a year. Became close friends with Romanians.
Thanks knowing the language always helps !
The Netherlands is on my list of places to move to, but the housing situation makes me have second thoughts. I live in a major city in the US and finding adequate housing here is also difficult. A decent, well kept apartment that is not exorbitant in price is very difficult to find. I wonder what the metrics are for people who are trying to find a home are. Is it a price range, neighborhood or just a home in general?
It's a great place to live in. Though you will probably move around a bit before finding a 'home' I've moved quite a few times already...but yeah it's part of the experience. Best of luck!
I'm Dutch and it's true that it's hard to find a house here for a reasonable price. I expect there to be a lot more opportunity once the so called 'baby boomers' decline in numbers.
@@Dimanti88 That will still take a while. And it is not even the cause of the problem.
For instance: look at the situation of the university students. Today most of them are looking for a house to live in. Reasonable of course. But, in my days at the Uni (and I am a baby-boomer from '49) you rented a room from a hospes/hospita and that was it. Families of 8 lived in the Jordaan in a house where today just one ( 1 ) person is living.
The real problem is the cultural change we had here. From a society where you had to do with the little you had into one where everything is possible. Going on holidays 4 times per year and so on.
At the same time, over the course of 2 to 3 decades, the facilities for care for the elderly were mainly reduced under the motto: stay at home as long as possible, that should be possible. The effect is clearly visible in my hometown: here we have people aged 80 and 90 who cannot leave their single-family homes because there is no suitable new place to live for them. The result is that young people cannot find a new home, because there is now also a building freeze.
No one is able to find a house. Not only that, but we also have a migration crisis partially due to not having enough houses. One of the woorst problems here.
Great video on a diversity of opinions.
The biggest difference I think is the expectation and definition of being or becoming friends and accepting it s friendship.
These new comings will have a challenge to difference between what new contact is more likely to become a friend and suitable for real friendship. As a newling it's understandable to wanna go for direct to friendship instead of the building up route people take. Most people you encounter will be nice and friendly to you. But this doesn't mean they want to be all friends and end up in friendship.
If you yust end up with one or two out of 100 encounter you may call these friendship. Otherwise you yust have a manual type of Facebook friends.
Thanks for your comment!
Housing is a challenge for natives too. Too expensive after decades of low rates of new builds and decades of an atrocious 'the market will sort it out' approach by VVD and CDA governments.
Yeah housing is one of the biggest challenges for sure
Hi David, thanks for putting together this video. Great to hear from different perspectives, nationalities and race - my partner and I are new to Amsterdam as well and I just want to say my heart goes out to the lady with the dogs as I have a dog myself and we are Asians. Hopefully it's not something we will experience with our future neighbours!
Hi Tricia - thanks for the kinds words and you're welcome! Yeah unfortunate for her...it could happen anywhere in te world =/ She lives in a small town. I think it should be fine in Amsterdam. I've never experienced anything. Hope you're enjoying Amsterdam! The summer was fantastic...now back to normal Dutch weather 🌧
I had never heard of such an incident before. She might just have met the wrong people. Assholes are a universal thing unfortunately.
Depends on your definition of friend. Investing in a friendship takes quite some time. The time that short term imigrants (expats) are around does not make it tempting for me to invest the time to become true friends for me as Dutch national. I also think many short term immigrants are only superficially interested in their host country and its inhabitants.
Thanks for sharing Martin. I've found making friends once you get older is just really hard in general...like after your 20s...
And many have said that learning the language will definitely help too (wherever you go)
It's not a Dutch thing. In Belgium in dutch schools, the topic of openness is always discussed and everyone from the south mentions exactly the same things and everyone from central northern European countries are like "we don't see a problem"
It's very "expat in Nl" though, to identify common aspects of the general area as almost only Dutch. Like they have landed in the most unique county on the planet.
Has a crazy neighbour, "ah, it must be racism!"..
I'm portuguese and I'm looking to live in another country. I tried both the US and England for a bit and thought for a while the Netherlands seemed a well balanced country. I only spent like a week there on travel....(Amsterdam, Rotterdam and a couple of places in between).............but one thing I wasn't prepared for was how CROWDED the country feels.
It made me feel I couldn't really live there, altough on paper, every other criteria meets my personal values and criteria. Even when going outside the big cities (obviously I didn't travel through the WHOLE country in a week) the nature and fields....everything felt like it was "alloted" ....there was very little space to just roam freely, while still being close enough to a city. At least, that's how it felt to me.
I know this is usual cliche people never like to hear, but . . . it depends on the individual more than the nationality. Though I myself have never lived in the Netherlands, I've worked with numerous Dutch expats abroad.
I'd say most of them have been rather aloof, snotty, or outright mean-spirited, whom you could never get along with. Then during a college exchange program, I encountered a young graduate assistant. He was friendly, down to earth and quickly and easily made friends with like-minded persons.
He did admit though, that he was an outlier in Dutch society, and he himself didn't have many local friends. Indeed his fiancée was a Indonesian-Dutch woman.
Thanks for sharing. Yeah there are individual differences too. I mean we are influenced by so many things…national culture, our family, our friends, our environment, and of course us as individuals. Good reminder
Yeah, I know such people. Some people really think too much of themselves. And Dutch expats are sort of an elite group. Can understand you don't like such. We, the vast majority of the normal Dutch, don't like them either. If you only get to know people from that very small group, you'd easily think all Dutch are like that. But it's far from that.
Besides, don't forget, that the directness of the Dutch really is an acquired taste. Many people find the Dutch so rude at first. When they get to know them a lot better, they start to see a whole different aspect of them and learn to differentiate between rude and just truly frank. The more careful your own culture is with sharing information and especially critique, the less people from that culture will felt drawn to these 'weird' people.
But believe me, most Dutch people have their hearts in the right place and are gladly friendly.
There's one thing though: once you've proven to be a fake, a leech or our enemy, we'll loath you for the rest of our lives. And happily let you know that, too.
Super interesting video and beautiful park! How is it called?
Thanks! The park? It’s in Hoofddorp :) Not much to do except work there and family life and that park :)
@@hidavidwen Hoofddorp is close by to almost everything. You have Amsterdam, Haarlem, The Hague, Leiden, Delft all in close vicinity. Plus a wide arrange of lovely beach towns. Venture out half an hour and the world lies open to you.
The only truly hard thing of Hoofddorp is the international airport of Schiphol though. If you like plain spotting, you're in paradise. But it's a lot of noise and not much nature.
In 30th i guess sometimes hobbies could give u some friends. However my best friends are still those whom I met in school. Then probably few colleagues with whom i worked for a few years closely.
I couldn't call anyone from volleyball section as friends despite the fact i played with them for 6 years. Outside of volleyball we dont have any common interests
Thanks…yeah we can meet friends from hobbies but it takes a lot more time together to really build a relationship…especially sports (from my experience playing basketball)
Never felt being a Dutch, or even felt being part of the culture😢Even though Both Parents; Seven generation Dutch, myself was born in Holland. I'm so glad I moved to the USA! 😊 Yes! You can have the American Dream & soon I'm going to become a USA Citizen 🇺🇸🎆👌
Best of luck to ya!
Honest question here: Why would you want to move to the USA? The healthsystem allone would keep me countries away from that place.
It's interesting about finding it hard to make friends. I wonder if that's not always the case between cultures. I'm in London and I find it hard as well. Although British culture is known for being extremely reserved and not direct. I would say that's a factor as well.
Thanks Peter. I think making friends is just hard in general as we get older!
That's not British culture. London is very different, remember there are only about 40% English here. In Yorkshire people are famous for being blunt and direct, and generally when you are in England outside the South East you can easily get into conversation with people at bus stops, on the bus, or in the shop. Even within the M25, I've had conversations with random strangers but far far outside the centre of London, near to Slough in the countryside.
If you want to live here English is enough, if you want to have a life here , you need to speak Dutch.
Truth is, outside of business, people want to be among their own gene pool. Not foreigners. It's reality, and it won't change. This notion that "we're all the same" just hurts people more by not opening to the truth for the sake of a moral highground.
Only things that will really assist you is speaking Dutch fluently, like natively fluent. Taking over behaviours from the Dutch, embracing freedom and a chase for knowledge and great literature. Most foreigners do not understand that they have to integrate, and since 2015 it seems our government stopped caring about whether or not foreigners integrate. Good luck.
I left the country 50 years ago precisely because of the underlying reason for the challenge of living in the Netherlands: There are a lot of people living in a small country . This makes privacy hard , so the Dutch gave it up. it makes housing a perpetual struggle ( My mom complained about housing when I was a child ( 60+years ago now ). So the Dutch have their 'virtual' privacy which compartmentalizes their lives in departments ( sports, work, family , childhood friends, hobbies) . Spontaneous has been sacrificed for separation.
Thanks for sharing Alex. Where did you go and do you ever return to the Netherlands?
@@hidavidwen Living in the US after spending years in Europe, .. still have a sister I stay in touch with . No reason to visit there when there still so much to explore.
Great video, thank you. I think the Colombian woman in the start would do well if she moved to some other neighborhood or city all together, there are areas that like to keep everything Dutch as Dutch as possible afraid of losing heritage. And I know she is in the Netherlands for work, but with the infrastructure in place there, would you rather have a nice neighborhood that is accepting, with good neighbors and where you can unwind and a bit longer of a commute or be stressed even when you're home with a shorter commute?
She should also understand how people can get very irritated if they hear your dogs 24/7. Must be racism...
What she said about xenophobia is so sad. I wish humans were incapable of such things it would make the world such a better place.
Most people know intelectually this isn't acceptable or have learned to not care about where people came from, everyone is a human being.
But their is definitely an old instinct from maybe millions of years ago which used to be a helpful characteristic.
PS Just a meta question: is it just me or is your speaking style, maybe even voice sounds a bit like Asian Boss ? It's such a relaxing style.
Thanks for sharing. Yeah let's hope for a more kind world...
Haha my voice. I used to quite self-conscious of my voice...glad to hear it's relaxing. I love Asian Boss too!
Actually, I very much doubt she encountered real xenophobia. More a endless-barking-dogs-phobia. In the old houses the walls are thin! The Dutch are used to live quite crowded and with less privacy. They also are used in thinking about the neighbors and not disturbing them. I'm pretty sure her dogs actually were barking, when she's away, since many dogs don't like to be left on their own in the house. Living next door to that, can drive the friendliest person crazy. Out of her story, I understood, that she didn't take the problem seriously. Sort of made it into racism right away. I was truly appalled by her lack of insight and willingness to cooperate. Such a selfish person, not considering the real possibility of her dogs driving everyone crazy.
So yeah, once you alienate yourself, the Dutch are direct enough to want to spit you out. Sort of have the idea, that the story you would hear from her neighbors is totally different.
Really, almost all people in Amsterdam really don't care where you come from or what color you have (by the way: she is pretty white...). But if you ruin their well earned rest in the privacy of their own home? Oh boy, you're asking for it. And indeed, she got it.
By the way, in the Netherlands almost all dogs go to the dog school as a puppy. There they learn to obey commands, etc. This must be, for living so close to each other AND having dogs would otherwise cause a civil war! So, if you ever get a dog, make sure you invest in his proper training at the dog school.
Hmmm, interesting. These issues could very well be said of the society as well as people in at least of the Nordic countries...or, at least as well as I've understood.
Just in case you're wondering - I'm from Sweden.
On the subject of making friends, it helps expats to learn how to speak Dutch. I know, it is a difficult language, (I am an author)) but if you live in my country for over 5 years and you still cannot speak basic Dutch, you will not make many friends. I live in an apartmentbuilding with a multi cultural population and have very friendly encounters with those who speak Dutch. As a Dutch national, I married a beautiful Spanish girl and she has even more friends than I have! So, apart from culture or background, anyone can make friends in this country. Even the Columbian lady! As a former international tourguide I experienced many friendly encounters all over the world so it all depends on you, as a person, to open up your mind and heart to others and just accept the culture of the hosting country. It will be highly appreciated.
Thanks Phil. Yes, language is culture and have been told multiple times it's important to learn the language if one wants to truly integrate
@@hidavidwen You're welcome, David. I enjoy your videos.
It would be interesting to know where they live in the netherlands, i do not recognize a lot of what they say. Housing is terrible everywhere. Our country if too full.
I'm British and have lived here for more than 40 years. I've had Dutch friends in the past but not anymore. I've given up trying to be friends. I have French, Hungarian, British and Cameroonian friends. One pet hate is Dutch people throwing in English sentences and words in the conversation. Stairs here are death traps and L shaped houses are so boring.
also maybe you should interview people that dont live in 'De Randstad'
Should go to every province tbh. The difference between places like Holland and Brabant are pretty big.
have to do with language as well. fi you want to get inside the friends circle, you need to share least a common language
I'm Dutch and I don't have friends that don't speak Dutch, or expats that speak only their own language and some broken English. I don't really like expats to begin with. They walk around our cities in bum clothes talking their own language constantly (and loud). Besides I don't need friendships with people who will leave after a few years anyway. I have my own Dutch friends who are born here and stay here. We have our own humor and unique style of communication.
Loud? Pot....kettle
strange story about garbage in a truck. Probably she just had bad luck.
I don't understand why foreigners always think Amsterdam, Rotterdam, Utrecht when coming to The Netherlands. The housing market depends on supply and demand just like any other commercial activity. When I was living in The Netherlands back in the 50s, 60s and 70s I never lived in big cities and even less in appartments. After my mandatory military service I started to work for a big multinational pharmaceutical company in the south-east traveling all over the world as a "problem solver" for the overseas plants. So, many oportunities in other parts of The Netherlands, but you need languages and a solid professional background. Not being a UA-camr.
I invite you to come to Limburg, visit the east side and the west side of South Limburg, east is more German rooted, west has more French ties.
Just the differences in being Dutch while being born and raised in the Netherlands. My partner is from Twente, I am from Limburg - there are differences in our "being" Dutch. I only need to open my mouth, people hear I am Limburgs and all I say will be perceived as lesser intellectual, just because of the accent. All the jokes in the Netherlands on the Limburgers, second best thing as Belgians, you know we make them the butt of the jokes for being stupid. Like that.
I lived in Maastricht for one year…I loved it! So different from the North
@@hidavidwen We are Dutch too, that was my point. If people talk about the Netherlands these diversities often get glossed over or over looked, or lost in translations. Also our history is very complex, and our sovereign history not that long. I am glad you loved living in Maastricht, That is the capital experience of the south of Limburg, still different form the other places we have to offer here.
For me North is Friesland and Groningen, not so much both Hollands, and the Randstad, to me these are more likely referred to as West. Zeeland, and the Wadden eilanden are often more labeled on their own, the east sides of the Netherlands also a place with more of a own identity. We are a micro cosmos, why we also have been testing grounds in the Netherlands for social experiments and other experiments.
Things we the natives overlook, and wanderers are not that aware about. Or place in Europe/the EU, and also our connections to America just to name the biggest fish in that pond.
Not sure If you have video content highlighting aspects like these. This probably is not your demographic of the market.
8:30 When I go to France and find a job there they expect me to speak French . . . . . what a f0cking surprise !
Why should the Netherlands be different in this respect? 😂
Dutch is no use to you unless you live here or SA. I do think that you should learn the language though, net zoals ik!
they need to put taxes toward building housing. in America, when housing was no longer attainable, everyone got desperate and our morals crumbled around us.
Im born Nederlands i have €6,60 to eat a Day live sucks i hate it
The Dutch protect their privacy. Colleagues are friendly but not friends. After 5 'o clock and on weekends you don't see your colleagues, but you do see your family and neighbors. Congrats on your 5 years. Your 30% tax exemption is over. I can imagine that, for a single foreign hanger-on, it must be very difficult to create a social life, unless you become a member of an "enclave" of your own nationality and never really integrate. Also your graph at 15:50 clearly indicates where you should and should not live in The Netherlands.
Nobody mentioned absence of nature. Parks are nice, but if you grew up with forests or mountains or beaches they won't cut it.
Thanks Max. Yeah...I can relate coming from California. I miss "hiking"
@@hidavidwen It depends on what your definition of hiking is. I go walking on the countryside almost every weekend. Through marshlands, heathlands, forests, nature parks or just along footpaths through the countryside. In my area (the green heart of the urbanized west) there are small trails straight through meadows and on dykes, sometimes only a foot wide. Sometimes you’ll have to take a manual ferry across water (you will have to do some manual labor to get the little ferryboat on a cable or chain to the other side). And yeah, The Netherlands is mostly flat as a pancake so walking on mountain trails is not possible, hilly terrain at most. You’ll have to go to Germany or France for mountains, and that’s a six to eight hours drive away. You can do a stay over weekend. For day trips and in case you don’t have a car, you can take a NS-wandeltocht, there are short ones (stationsommetjes), around the train station (
@@RealConstructor Thanks for sharing! Wow didn't know about all of those above. Appreciate it =)
Beaches... you realise the entire west and north side of the country are coast?
Absence of nature is mainly found in the Randstad, where the cities are very close to each other. Then try the Veluwe. Try almost all of the province of Drenthe. Plenty of woods. But yeah, mountains are hard to get by here :)
But how you can oversee the beach, I don't get. We are bordering the sea at half of our entire border.
It's hard because now to understand who is exactly Dutch it's a big question, that why they hidden house registration and all, that why they not opened to be your friend it's fact 😂
Dont get to comfy, our tolerance has limits. Ungratefull bunch.
3 Years and no dutch ?
When I first came to NL, many years ago I didn't hear any Dutch for the first two years. People started asking me why I didn't speak Dutch and I told them you keep talking to me in English. Het is nu geen probleem en soms krijg ik complementen. Het kan beter maar ja ik ben verstaanbaar.
@@annekathleen4498 goed bezig
In about a month time I'm about to make ways the Netherlands. After watching episodes of your videos, particularly this one , I've now loose interest and growing confiscation thoughts on coming because of my race as a black.
If people with white skin are complaining of making friends and finding housing, how much more a black person as myself. Kindly give me your advice as well?
Hi Franklin - I hope you still come and see
For yourself. Everyone’s experiences will vary but overall, I’ve found the country to be very accepting. Though it depends on where you live. Give it a shot
Het is 2023. De huidskleur lijkt mij niet relevant.
The first interviewee (the colombian lady) seems to really not like The Netherlands 🤣 It's time to move out 👌
come down to the south and I'll even cook a dinner for you
I guess “Southern” hospitality is true everywhere in the world, thanks!
People from the South are a totally different species. Very open and friendly 💯
Moroccans with Brabant accent are the best. ❤
Unbelievable....living the best life ever and still criticism...scumb...
When I visited Amsterdam as a tourist, the most challenging thing I experienced was "looks" from men. Not sure if that's because I'm a woman of color or something else 🤔
Thanks for sharing. I can imagine that being uncomfortable.
Hey I’m Dutch and I find amsterdam to be a very uninviting place, next time go to different cities people are nicer there! Amsterdam is just too overcrowded and cranky people
People in Amsterdam don't care abour skin colour. There are so many different cultures and varieties of people there that no one stands out. Could it be something else?
Perhaps you are outstandingly beautiful!