Howdy Folks! We met up with Kerry "2smooth" Marshall and pimped his pedaltrain! We used a piece of laminated plywood from GoMc, and upgraded Kerry's rig to be more reliable, aesthetically appealing, and tour-proof. Would you do this upgrade to your Pedaltrain?
@@VertexEffectsInc This video came at the perfect time. I've been thinking of transitioning to flatboard, but now I don't have to. :) I can have the best of both worlds.
I can understand insetting the top of the board but why the bottom? Mason, I have seen several of your videos and one thing is common. You take a lot of interest in how each artist you are building for intends to use their board. Love that.👍👍👍👍
Mason, you gotta get R&D working on a signature pedalboard system. I just put a Pedal Train board together (my first) and I'd love to do these modifications you did for Kerry. I don't have the time or skill to do it though. And I did so much research on different brands of systems and really, none of them felt perfect. If someone could design something that works right out of the box for 90% of the players out there, they'd corner the market. Great vid!
For me, one takeaway from this is don’t bother getting a Pedaltrain that you’ll need to add a board on top and get something that already has more top surface area like a Rockboard or a Temple Audio or anything similar and avoid the hassle of needing to modify.
Awesome video, would really appreciate a video where you talk about how to solder DC power cables to length / best practice for reusing old cables (both patch cables and power).
I don't use as many pedals as this and I have them in signal order, I actually never even thought about laying it out to optimise space and then cabling it signal wise if that makes sense. Thanks for another great video.
Mason, can you.also recommend a company that makes gig bags, or a tutorial on building a gig bag for.our boards if we don't want to go with a road case. Or even recommend a road/flight case. Thanks!
great video,great work,cool ideal on the Pedal Train pimp job. Sweet playing and yes...that PRS is drool-worthy.By the by... 11 dislikes? That's just silly.
It’s a game changer - learned it from XTS in Nashville, it’s a smart idea to really maximize space so you don’t have to worry about having to hit the channels on the Pedaltrain for a solid Velcro mount. What color DGT!?
@@VertexEffectsInc it's a subtle violet with a 10 Top. Under stage lighting, it almost looks more brown. www.rainbowguitars.com/guitar/paul-reed-smith/dgt-purple/pr14208529/us
We kind of have a nontraditional system for how we do things, because it’s all going to UA-cam the structure requires a lot from the client, we also have an application process since we have so many inquiries every month and we only build about two rigs per month, you can email us and we can provide all the details info@vertexeffects.com
Interesting video...I find I learn something new each time I watch of the Vertex videos. Nice job utilizing the existing pedalboard to save some cash for the owner. Is there a story of the two Boosts? One white and the other...red/orange? Keep these coming!
Have to say the lay out you ended up with would actually have fitted on the pedaltrain just fine, seems to me that he just dint want a flat board like your normal set ups dnt think turning a pedaltrain into a flat board is really the solution if the PT isnt working plenty of other boards that you can pick from, still a super clean build as always however.
Hey Rohadt, some things you might consider. 1) adding the plywood allowed us to have the pedals supported no matter where they lived on the board. The back row had to be fully up against the edge of the board in order to have all four corners of each pedals supported. This however presented an issue because Kerry's jacks kept getting broken in transit and on stage because they were so exposed, but moving them in the amount we did (about 1.5") would have one-third of the pedal unsupported, and even with good quality velcro, could have the back lift off because there is no surface under the footswitch which is where the majority of the weight is coming down when you step on the pedal. 2) the routing area is much cleaner and will allow you to better separate your audio paths and power paths to eliminate added noise 3) the troubleshooting aspect of a flat board where all cables are routed top side is much easier to track down an issue, routing under a Pedaltrain is not ideal, and can create a real nightmare if you have to figure out a bad cable going between top and bottom. Although the power supply is underneath (which I don't always like for noise issues especially with linear toroid transformer style power supplies), the pedal connections are mostly routed top side as well for easy trouble shooting, getting the best of both worlds from Pedaltrain and Flat Board style rigs. 4) It's a way cleaner visually, and if you're using 3/8" ply in this side, you're talking about 2-3 pounds max depending on the quality of plywood you use. Kerry lost a few pedals and downsized a few pedals so there was no added weight to this particular rig and by adding the surface we were able to add reliability to the overall system.
I eat these videos up. Thanks for providing this great service. I have an original Pedaltrain and want to figure out the best way to mount my power supply (truetone one spot pro cs7) on the underside. Do you have any recommendations or have you done a video on your technique? Thanks in advance Dr. Rig!
Michael Phillips you can cut out the aluminum where the cables would live or mount it top side (adding the plywood like in then video would help with that).
hey mason! great job on this rig! i just finished mine and i used a temple audio pedalboard. do you have any thoughts on the temple audio pedalboards? thanks!
Hi Mason, love your videos, very useful. Would you do something about how to avoid, track down and fix ground loops, hums and buzzes in a system? Keep up the good stuff!
Have you considered making a true bypass looper? I think it would be a big seller, if it is priced with the rest of the popular true bypass loopers out there. Thanks for the video, brother.
I haven't, not sure what I'd bring to the table that isn't already there. The RJM stuff is pretty great, Boss is also doing great stuff on a budget. I try to stay away from stuff that I can't make an obvious improvement or differentiator - but I'd love your feedback on what you think would make it better than others.
I love this stuff, man. I would kill to have my rig organized like this! I have a maxed out Novo24. However, I feel like I would be limited with something like this, like I wouldn't be able to experiment with new pedals without having to take it all apart. Nonetheless, I would love to have my board like this.
I've not thought about it, I've only done a few boards like this and typically the weight savings would be in the 1lbs range and would be expensive because it would just be a one-off and most shops have a minimum. I figured the 1 lbs savings in weight compared to a high quality birch-plywood would be minimal and the offset in cost would be prohibitive. It would totally work, just might be pricy.
hello !!!!!!!!!!!!!!! kerry had taken a big kick in his face when he played after mason intervention!!!! Wouaaaaaa lolllllll Mason the doctor for sure men!!!!!!!!!!!!
@@VertexEffectsInc I'm a country player but when I started doing church gigs years ago I started youtubing all his videos. Total monster. Plus you gave me some ideas on pimpin my pedaltrain 👍
I use pedaltrain pedalboards now because after 30+ years of cobbling together pedalboards out of plywood I decided enough was enough!! I prefer the fact that they're more portable & the overall build is more professional looking even though I've built them!!! I could pay a fortune for a professional built pedalboard,but as I like to continually tweak things & change things is it really worth it? I haven't built a bad board & by using simple common sense I do ok!! I'm in no way criticising professional pedalboard builders,but for me it's not cost effective for me at this point in time (maybe one day when my music sells millions (don't laugh because I believe & one day I might get lucky & I'll call the rig doctor & get him over to England!!) but never say never!!
The point of our videos is to show DIYers how to optimize their rigs like a pro. The pedal trains are ok - the main issue is power supply choice and the proximity of your pedals above it. If you don’t use a switching supply, the power supply can be a real issue. If you’re using high quality soldered cables I think you’ll sound just fine if you’re observing most of the pedalboards best practices.
Hey Mason, have you considered making a 'board building course for DIYers? It'd be super helpful and I'm pretty sure you'd make all the money. Win win.
We talked about doing some things at Sweetwater, I just don’t know that I have the time to organize something that’s really well segmented and spaced out for DIYers, it would almost be something that I would have to partner with an organization that already has that format, something like a TrueFire. Thoughts?
@@VertexEffectsInc Sweetwater & Truefire are both great companies. Both could definitely help with production values. Going the Truefire route might improve your reach, but would cost you most of the profit (I think). If I were you, I'd think of it in terms of selling my byproducts. For example, you're already gonna solder a lot of patch cables, why not film that and talk about what you're doing (& why)? Whatever planning you'd do for a Sweetwater masterclass would give you the syllabus for the course. You could film (& update as necessary) piecemeal and put it up on Teachable. Also, not sure how important production values would be for the DIY crowd-I'd take a useful course with a bit of camera shake and just-ok audio over a less-detailed one that's super slick. I have a fair amount of experience designing online course syllabi; happy to share my approach if you're interested.
Excellent video, Mason! Amazing work and production as always. I have a semi-related question. If 2 different players (both using semi-hollow guitars) try plugging their boards into the same amp at different times and 1 is quiet when playing a high gain drive and the other needs a noise gate to eliminate hum, would the drive pedal be causing noise or would it be a cable routing issue?
Turn the volume off on both guitars and plug into the amp and see if the noise is the same, that would tell you if perhaps you have more sensitive pickups on one guitar over another, perhaps one has unpotted pickups? If there is still a noise difference, then it's likely something on your pedalboard that's causing a problem. Could be a combination of things, not just one. Cabling is a big thing, having high quality soldered connections is a big thing. Also having a high quality soldered instrument cable is important to. I leave some recommendations in my description box for my favorite cables to use if that's helpful.
Vertex Effects Thank you! I did try straight into the amp for both and only happens when the 2 different pedal boards are plugged in. If anything, I use all Mogami soldered cables on my board and for the guitar but the noise happens with my setup. I’ll look into some of the ones that you use.
@@zackguitar07 try the guitar volume off thing first just to isolate if the pickups have something to do with it. Having higher output pickups might also exaggerate the issue.
See the playlist, there are lots of those videos: 1) ua-cam.com/video/QahzBHLSfS8/v-deo.html 2) ua-cam.com/video/iMalcGeN0p8/v-deo.html 3) ua-cam.com/video/G5cC8l03wGM/v-deo.html 4) ua-cam.com/video/ur75eTvARys/v-deo.html
This concept of adding a plywood layer has occurred to me before, given these pedalboards invariably have huge gaps leading to the inability to place pedals where you really want them, with lots of wasted space where the open channels are. Then I wonder why use an expensive metal undercarriage at all when the whole thing could be made from wood for a fraction of the cost. In this video the board was screwed to the top of the frame and then for some reason it skipped to all the pedals already being in place, which left me wondering how the pedals were attached to the plywood. Was Velcro still used???? Why was this important detail skipped over?
Hey TIO as always great vid man!! Hey can you PLEASE post like a list of pedals in the order they should go? I couldn’t find anything like that in your channel. I have: Line 6 wireless->Tuner->wah->OCD->Texas Trouble->MXR Distortion->EQ->Phaser->Tremelo->Delay->Reverb->Volume pedal->Looper->Hot Rod Deluxe amp. I do not use FX LOOP. Is that path ok?
Yo PRIMO! I like this order, maybe try Phaser before drives, and volume pedal after drives. Effects loop isn’t necessary if you’re going to use the clean channel of the amp.
Vertex Effects thank you!!! Your word is golden around my house!! I use the volume pedal like a master volume. When ever your in San Diego let me know, we’ll grab some fish tacos and a Modelo...
@@dbltap3332 it's still a master volume if you put after drives, the delays will trail off, as will reverb, but it won't add volume or output after the volume pedal. Try it and see for yourself.
Wondering if the added 3/8-1/2” of plywood makes it harder to close the case... I have the PT-Pro, and it already feels like I’m pushing down pretty hard on my effects in the back row... nothing crazy up there either... just typical “Boss” height stuff. Did you guys run into anything like that, good doctor? 🤔
We didn’t run into any issues, however the pedals are not very high on the back row. There are no taller than a normal pedal train with maybe some taller pedals on them. Everything fit perfectly.
Hey Mason and Gang. I'm ordering my parts to do a project like this to maximize area for a pedal train. The link in the description for GoMC navigates to a page to custom order specific size laminated board. However, it has an aluminum U-channel which I don't want. Do they have an option for a laminated board without the aluminum U-channel...? I learned tons from your channel which has helped me help my guitar friends here in Phoenix. I am truly grateful for your willingness to share all the info and tips. Thank you, johnWphx
Can you go a little more in depth on the mounting of the top for the PT3? I'm thinking about doing the same since I now have a PBC 6x and the PT design doesn't seem very switcher friendly, but I'm not super handy. Like...I own tools...but that's about it. ;-)
$30ish as I recall. It was one of those situations where the shipping was almost as much is the item itself, this would be something you could pretty easily make yourself if you needed to.
Hey Mason. What's your opinion on those Dunlop VP's? I've have an Ernie Ball that I'm not exactly in love with. Would love to switch it out, and those Dunlop ones seem pretty sturdy, and slightly smaller footprint too
Since the top surface of the board has a formica laminate, did you do anything to prevent the formica from cracking when you drilled holes for the cables?
Rig Doctor….love your videos; HELP….I am looking for a soft shell case (similar to what comes with a pedaltrain)…..BUT….I want wheels on soft shelled case. I DO NOT want a super heavy plywood tour case. I just want a roller-bag. WHERE?
Good point! We did have some footage of the drives, well audio at least. Are Sony cameras right on 30 minute loops, and it cut off the first minute or two of the demo before we realize that we weren’t rolling! I have all the audio if you want it, I can send it to you in a Dropbox, otherwise this is what we actually have footage of so that’s what we ended up using in the video. Sorry!
Vertex Effects that’s cool, I watch Kerry’s UA-cam as well, he’s got a great sound going, I was just waiting in the video to hear how it turned out, it’s all good though, I love all the pedal boards you’ve built, amazing stuff
Hahah - I mentioned midway on the video that the boost that Kerry originally had had gotten kicked by a roadie with a cable in it and broke the input jack. I didn’t have time in the eight hour span of the build to repair it before he left for tour so we loaned him one of our demo boosts in the meantime.
The tuner is coming out of the Tuner Out on the Volume Pedal, however when I see Kerry later this month we're going to route it out of the Vertex Boost so it doesn't load the signal down - we didn't notice a problem, but because we had about 8 hours to do the entire rig and had to make few time saving decisions - this was one of them. We're also going to add a small interface under the board as well when we update in a few weeks.
@@VertexEffectsInc Those amps are boss! Back in the 80's (while living in SF) I had a buddy who had a *Mesa Boogie* full stack, a Gibson Les Paul Custom "Black Beauty" and an EHX Memory Man. He got me into listening to Jeff Beck.
Ok I’ve ordered the Classic 2 PT what size is that GOMC board you used to cover the PT??? I want to do this as well. You know me Mason! I always take your recommendations!!!!
@@VertexEffectsInc I'm finding out that companies are starting to finally build for PT boards. Should have been doing that long ago since PT doesn't. PT just makes bigger boards. Pretty soon the front of the stage is covered in PT board....lol. Can't see the crowd cuz my PT board is 18 ft wide now!!!! LOL Get your buddies to help us too. The PT board market is wide open and you need to jump on it before PT gets wise and starts making this stuff and putting it in Guitar Center down the street.
@@VertexEffectsInc haha - your pronunciation of CIOKS caught me offguard when I heard it cuz I have always heard it pronounced "chox". I have no idea what is the right way to say it, I just hadn't heard it that way and it made me chuckle and made me image a Sea Ox, which led to my clearly hilarious, on point quip ;-)
It's not pronouced See-Ox, but like Chucks. Poul who runs the company is of Polish decent, hence the funky spelling/pronouciation. Their PSUs are build like tanks, and they deliver, I have them on my own, and have put them on other peoples boards, for the last 16 years, and they have never failed me.
I have a PedalTrain Terra 42. I'll be laminating the bottom of the plywood surface with ABS laminate and formica on the top. In order to reduce weight (my back would thank you), is 1/2" plywood what you would recommend or could I use something lighter lighter like 1/4" or 3/8"?
I would actually, time permitting, if I were building this rig again would have just done it with aluminum like we did on our John Mayer giveaway rig with Sweetwater ( you can find on our channel). I got Fix Pedalboards to make me a sheet of powder coated aluminum that matched the size of the TP and was pre-drilled for me. Make it super easy and way less weight than the laminated wood.
@@VertexEffectsInc Unfortunately, I’m committed to plywood since I already ordered the ABS and Formica laminates. :( With that in mind, would 1/4” work, or should I go with thicker plywood?
Could you provide detailed specs of what screws to buy for someone who wants to do this to their own pedal train but maybe isn't the most knowledgeable when it comes to hardware buying. Also, can we buy precut tops to go on a pedal train from GOMC? Thanks so much!
My pleasure, I am drilling pilot holes into the bottom of the primary rails on the left and right of the pedal train platform. I’m using a step drill bit to do this, boring out the whole until it will clear enough space to fit a number eight wood screw, I used a half inch length. I only bore out the hole on one side of the frame, and then drill a hole on the other side where the wood will be touching so that there’s only enough circumference to clear the wood screw. This means the outside hole is somewhere around a quarter inch in diameter, the inner whole is somewhere around a 16th of an inch. Then you line up your platform, and you can drill it right through very easily and securely. GOMC will make any size platform you want. You can reference this video, mention my name, and ask for Nate or Ed.
Hi @Vertex Effect, I’m trying to rebuild my pedal train, can you help me with one thing. Where can I buy the birch plywood for pro classic 32”x16” Thanks
Hi Mason, Very nice video. Where can I purchase 1/2" Laminated plywood with formica on top and abs on the bottom in black? Pre cut to 18 by 14 & 1/2 ".
I ordered from GOMC they don't offer just the topper on the website you need to send them an email with your specs. I ordered about 3 weeks ago and the board is finally on its way to me. Hope that helps.
Any idea as to why the D'addario tuners make the high pitch noise when using it on the tuner out of volume pedals? I noticed it after suggesting one to a friend who runs a volume pedal.
I haven’t had time to fully go through it, it seems that it’s only through passive volume pedals, also if you have a pedal on it seems to not do it so it may be something to do with the input impedance having some sensitivity. I like the tuners, just didn’t have time that day to deal with a work around.
@@VertexEffectsInc Well, I'm about to put together a board with it in that configuration. I will, however, have a buffer (Mesa Highwire) in front of the entire pedal board chain so maybe (hopefully) that will mitigate the noise.
@@ggavalakis to me, it really comes down to three things 1) power supply quality and isolation 2) pedal placement relative to supply (especially for linear toroid supplies) and 3) high quality SOLDERED shielded cables (I like Mogami 2319 for patch cables). If you hit those marks, you'll be as noise free as possible for 99% of scenarios.
@@VertexEffectsInc Why do you feel soldered is better for signal noise/clarity? Reliability, I can see. For better or worse, I have the Lava cable Tightrope solder-free pedal cable kit. No issues thus far. However, I'm not a touring musician. I only play 3-4 gigs a months locally.
Not sure, I don't have one to test for you - but I'd be surprised if it's at 100mA, typically pedals are listed a big higher than their actual draw - we linked a Truetone mA reader in the description box that could help you know for sure.
Drilled out four holes in the corners of the Pedaltrain. I drilled it with a #10 screw size hole, then drilled a second time to get the head of the #10 screw head to clear the outside of the frame. I used wood screws as the screw go through the pre drilled metal but are only secured to the wood. I bought the laminated wood with Formica from GOMC Cases.
I was wondering how the DualLock or Power Gripping will hold on the wood. Also considering Perforated Handy Panel plywood (if aluminum available,better) if possible. You think the grips will hold?
Howdy Folks! We met up with Kerry "2smooth" Marshall and pimped his pedaltrain! We used a piece of laminated plywood from GoMc, and upgraded Kerry's rig to be more reliable, aesthetically appealing, and tour-proof. Would you do this upgrade to your Pedaltrain?
Absolutely. Going to do this ASAP.
@@stevenbradley1964 amazing! Thanks for watching!
@@VertexEffectsInc This video came at the perfect time. I've been thinking of transitioning to flatboard, but now I don't have to. :) I can have the best of both worlds.
Steven Bradley yes indeed!!!
@@CrestonMusic Yep
man that's a beautiful PRS
I loved this. Kerry is amazing. Dude helped me with a non guitar related job, and I’ll always be grateful to him.
Arnold Alaniz Kerry’s a wonderful person 👌
nice D&M drive from That Pedal Show!
Yes!
I can understand insetting the top of the board but why the bottom?
Mason, I have seen several of your videos and one thing is common. You take a lot of interest in how each artist you are building for intends to use their board. Love that.👍👍👍👍
Crazy how that red boost just suddenly became gray!
Hahahaha...the magic of rehousing into a new enclosure ;)
That boost pedal keeps changing colour!
Magic! Just kidding, we had to loan Kerry one because a jack got broken off of his original boost.
Mason, you gotta get R&D working on a signature pedalboard system. I just put a Pedal Train board together (my first) and I'd love to do these modifications you did for Kerry. I don't have the time or skill to do it though. And I did so much research on different brands of systems and really, none of them felt perfect. If someone could design something that works right out of the box for 90% of the players out there, they'd corner the market. Great vid!
Thanks for watching - stuff we do it too custom, I'm not sure if it would work.
For me, one takeaway from this is don’t bother getting a Pedaltrain that you’ll need to add a board on top and get something that already has more top surface area like a Rockboard or a Temple Audio or anything similar and avoid the hassle of needing to modify.
Rockboard and Temple both have holes, etc. makes velcro and routing certain ways difficult.
Same thoughts
One thing I have learnt from you is how to tidy my cables underneath my pedalboard. Thank you 😊
Glad to help!
That rig doctor intro was golden
Glad you liked it! Thanks for watching!
@@VertexEffectsInc I like the intro too doctor! 👍
@@sd_design sweet!
@@VertexEffectsInc Stay strong Rig Doctor! 😎 Have a Good Day!
Smooth playing and clean board!
Thanks for watching! I hope we earned your subscription
Awesome video, would really appreciate a video where you talk about how to solder DC power cables to length / best practice for reusing old cables (both patch cables and power).
See our catalogue - it’s in there
@@VertexEffectsInc Okay, thank you! Can't seem to find it though... Any chance you could specify the video title for me please?
I had thought about doing this but haven't seen anyone else do it before. Nice video!
XTS was the first I saw, but it's a very cool concept.
I've said it once before, I'll say it once more...you're a true artist Uncle Mason
Frozen Charlottes awe shucks! Thanks 🙏
Wow...very accomplished sounding player.!!!! His rig , guitar and skill are definitely something else.!💖👌👍🤘🤘🤘🤘
Thanks for watching Rikk!
I don't use as many pedals as this and I have them in signal order, I actually never even thought about laying it out to optimise space and then cabling it signal wise if that makes sense. Thanks for another great video.
Glad you dig it, it really helps create more useable space!
Mason, can you.also recommend a company that makes gig bags, or a tutorial on building a gig bag for.our boards if we don't want to go with a road case. Or even recommend a road/flight case. Thanks!
I don’t make these - I have them made by GOMC (linked above), or I use Pelican Cases, and for Gig Bags I use Studio Slips.
great video,great work,cool ideal on the Pedal Train pimp job.
Sweet playing and yes...that PRS is drool-worthy.By the by...
11 dislikes? That's just silly.
Thanks for watching!!!
I would love to see a similar video for a pedaltrain metro 16.
Nice content, as always.
Same concept should hold true
Love that PRS DGT. Just got one myself, awesome guitar. Love the idea of the laminated plywood on the Pedaltrain frame...I think I may try that!
It’s a game changer - learned it from XTS in Nashville, it’s a smart idea to really maximize space so you don’t have to worry about having to hit the channels on the Pedaltrain for a solid Velcro mount. What color DGT!?
@@VertexEffectsInc it's a subtle violet with a 10 Top. Under stage lighting, it almost looks more brown. www.rainbowguitars.com/guitar/paul-reed-smith/dgt-purple/pr14208529/us
Doug Floyd sweet!!!!
Yesssss, worth the wait! Love kerry, love mason, love vertex!!! How much roughly does a build like this run?
We kind of have a nontraditional system for how we do things, because it’s all going to UA-cam the structure requires a lot from the client, we also have an application process since we have so many inquiries every month and we only build about two rigs per month, you can email us and we can provide all the details info@vertexeffects.com
@@VertexEffectsInc thanx dudes!
Mike Nappi thank you 🙏
Interesting video...I find I learn something new each time I watch of the Vertex videos. Nice job utilizing the existing pedalboard to save some cash for the owner. Is there a story of the two Boosts? One white and the other...red/orange? Keep these coming!
John Hurtt ones fiesta red - they’re the same just limited edition colors
@@VertexEffectsInc Very cool, thanks!
John Hurtt my pleasure
Have to say the lay out you ended up with would actually have fitted on the pedaltrain just fine, seems to me that he just dint want a flat board like your normal set ups dnt think turning a pedaltrain into a flat board is really the solution if the PT isnt working plenty of other boards that you can pick from, still a super clean build as always however.
With the power supply it would have had to have been a bit larger, plus he had all the cases and stuff already to go with it so this made more sense.
@@VertexEffectsInc it made sense, the only thing that didn't make sense was adding the plywood.
Hey Rohadt, some things you might consider. 1) adding the plywood allowed us to have the pedals supported no matter where they lived on the board. The back row had to be fully up against the edge of the board in order to have all four corners of each pedals supported. This however presented an issue because Kerry's jacks kept getting broken in transit and on stage because they were so exposed, but moving them in the amount we did (about 1.5") would have one-third of the pedal unsupported, and even with good quality velcro, could have the back lift off because there is no surface under the footswitch which is where the majority of the weight is coming down when you step on the pedal. 2) the routing area is much cleaner and will allow you to better separate your audio paths and power paths to eliminate added noise 3) the troubleshooting aspect of a flat board where all cables are routed top side is much easier to track down an issue, routing under a Pedaltrain is not ideal, and can create a real nightmare if you have to figure out a bad cable going between top and bottom. Although the power supply is underneath (which I don't always like for noise issues especially with linear toroid transformer style power supplies), the pedal connections are mostly routed top side as well for easy trouble shooting, getting the best of both worlds from Pedaltrain and Flat Board style rigs. 4) It's a way cleaner visually, and if you're using 3/8" ply in this side, you're talking about 2-3 pounds max depending on the quality of plywood you use. Kerry lost a few pedals and downsized a few pedals so there was no added weight to this particular rig and by adding the surface we were able to add reliability to the overall system.
Awesome video! Thanks for all of the amazing information that you provide!
My pleasure! Thanks for watching
kerry is such a smooth player
Mr 2Smooth himself !
I eat these videos up. Thanks for providing this great service. I have an original Pedaltrain and want to figure out the best way to mount my power supply (truetone one spot pro cs7) on the underside. Do you have any recommendations or have you done a video on your technique? Thanks in advance Dr. Rig!
Michael Phillips hey! Dual lock should hold it no problem, this issue might be clearance or the DC plugs
@@VertexEffectsInc yeah, the clearance is gonna be an issue. taller feet, perhaps?
Michael Phillips you can cut out the aluminum where the cables would live or mount it top side (adding the plywood like in then video would help with that).
That DGT sounds awesome!
another great video! when you said you 'cut' the CIOKS RCA cables did you replace or solder new plugs? if so which ones and how did you do it ?
I did, determinate them to length. I used Switchcraft RCA plugs
Looks professional and sounds great!
hey mason! great job on this rig! i just finished mine and i used a temple audio pedalboard. do you have any thoughts on the temple audio pedalboards? thanks!
Awesome - I hope you found some of the videos useful!
Kerry still repping the 205 with the Magic City delay!
Yes sir! Nice pedal!
Hi Mason, love your videos, very useful. Would you do something about how to avoid, track down and fix ground loops, hums and buzzes in a system? Keep up the good stuff!
We’re working on this very type of video as we speak
@@VertexEffectsInc Great, looking forward to it!
@@lore88824 us too!
Have you considered making a true bypass looper? I think it would be a big seller, if it is priced with the rest of the popular true bypass loopers out there. Thanks for the video, brother.
I haven't, not sure what I'd bring to the table that isn't already there. The RJM stuff is pretty great, Boss is also doing great stuff on a budget. I try to stay away from stuff that I can't make an obvious improvement or differentiator - but I'd love your feedback on what you think would make it better than others.
I love this stuff, man. I would kill to have my rig organized like this! I have a maxed out Novo24. However, I feel like I would be limited with something like this, like I wouldn't be able to experiment with new pedals without having to take it all apart. Nonetheless, I would love to have my board like this.
You can do it, all the resources are here!
Awesome as always
Jonathan Walker thanks so much for watching!
that white PRS is the star of the rig! daaang!
Yea, it’s a pretty one!
@@VertexEffectsInc btw not saying that the pb isn't awesome as well, that's what we all came to see! 🤓
JAFO-PTY hahahaha
Hey Mason, you ever try using SHEET METAL for the platform surface to save a little weight?
I've not thought about it, I've only done a few boards like this and typically the weight savings would be in the 1lbs range and would be expensive because it would just be a one-off and most shops have a minimum. I figured the 1 lbs savings in weight compared to a high quality birch-plywood would be minimal and the offset in cost would be prohibitive. It would totally work, just might be pricy.
Vertex Effects gotcha! Didn't Real the difference was so negligible. Keep at it.mason love the videos!!!
Robbie Valentine my pleasure! Thanks for watching
This would look rad with acrylic instead of wood. Do you think it will be strong enough?
I don't see why not???
hello !!!!!!!!!!!!!!! kerry had taken a big kick in his face when he played after mason intervention!!!! Wouaaaaaa lolllllll
Mason the doctor for sure men!!!!!!!!!!!!
Thanks for watching Domi!!!
I'm getting that oscillation from my polytune!
Hey Mason - check out the WAGGI Pedalboards. I purchased their 28" Model, and it is Incredible.
Will do! Thanks for watching sir!
My favorite current era guitarist!
Such an unreal player - the guitar is like "voice" in his hands. Can't say enough good stuff about Kerry personally or professionally!
@@VertexEffectsInc I'm a country player but when I started doing church gigs years ago I started youtubing all his videos. Total monster. Plus you gave me some ideas on pimpin my pedaltrain 👍
@@Jeff-11_354 Good luck! Let us know if we can help!
Great Episode, Mason!
PedaiseEfeitos thanks for watching guys!!!!
This is the way
I had the same thing with the daddario tuner coming out of a Dunlop volume pedal don’t know why but I got rid of the daddario tuner and went polytune.
Joe Smith it seems to need a buffer hitting the input if you’re using it via the tuner out.
Here you mention that the plywood is 1/2 “ and the Website for the flat board makes them 3/8” Can they customize it?
They will make any depth you want
Vertex Effects which did you use was it a 1/2” ?
Gooday Rig Doctor. Any thoughts on re-issuing the *Vertex Effects Landau Stereo Chorus?* I love chorus fx 🔹
No plans, but you can get them on Reverb!
@@VertexEffectsInc Is there anywhere to demo your current pedals in California? I want to try the COMP
I use pedaltrain pedalboards now because after 30+ years of cobbling together pedalboards out of plywood I decided enough was enough!!
I prefer the fact that they're more portable & the overall build is more professional looking even though I've built them!!!
I could pay a fortune for a professional built pedalboard,but as I like to continually tweak things & change things is it really worth it?
I haven't built a bad board & by using simple common sense I do ok!!
I'm in no way criticising professional pedalboard builders,but for me it's not cost effective for me at this point in time (maybe one day when my music sells millions (don't laugh because I believe & one day I might get lucky & I'll call the rig doctor & get him over to England!!) but never say never!!
The point of our videos is to show DIYers how to optimize their rigs like a pro. The pedal trains are ok - the main issue is power supply choice and the proximity of your pedals above it. If you don’t use a switching supply, the power supply can be a real issue. If you’re using high quality soldered cables I think you’ll sound just fine if you’re observing most of the pedalboards best practices.
Is it possible to purchase just the surface from GOMC? Seems like you can only buy it with the siding and handles included
Yep, just message them directly.
Nice stuff Mason..
Thanks for watching Grant!
Hey Mason, have you considered making a 'board building course for DIYers? It'd be super helpful and I'm pretty sure you'd make all the money. Win win.
We talked about doing some things at Sweetwater, I just don’t know that I have the time to organize something that’s really well segmented and spaced out for DIYers, it would almost be something that I would have to partner with an organization that already has that format, something like a TrueFire. Thoughts?
@@VertexEffectsInc Sweetwater & Truefire are both great companies. Both could definitely help with production values. Going the Truefire route might improve your reach, but would cost you most of the profit (I think). If I were you, I'd think of it in terms of selling my byproducts. For example, you're already gonna solder a lot of patch cables, why not film that and talk about what you're doing (& why)? Whatever planning you'd do for a Sweetwater masterclass would give you the syllabus for the course. You could film (& update as necessary) piecemeal and put it up on Teachable. Also, not sure how important production values would be for the DIY crowd-I'd take a useful course with a bit of camera shake and just-ok audio over a less-detailed one that's super slick. I have a fair amount of experience designing online course syllabi; happy to share my approach if you're interested.
Joshua Skaja thanks for this! Super appreciate it!
Excellent video, Mason! Amazing work and production as always. I have a semi-related question.
If 2 different players (both using semi-hollow guitars) try plugging their boards into the same amp at different times and 1 is quiet when playing a high gain drive and the other needs a noise gate to eliminate hum, would the drive pedal be causing noise or would it be a cable routing issue?
Turn the volume off on both guitars and plug into the amp and see if the noise is the same, that would tell you if perhaps you have more sensitive pickups on one guitar over another, perhaps one has unpotted pickups? If there is still a noise difference, then it's likely something on your pedalboard that's causing a problem. Could be a combination of things, not just one. Cabling is a big thing, having high quality soldered connections is a big thing. Also having a high quality soldered instrument cable is important to. I leave some recommendations in my description box for my favorite cables to use if that's helpful.
Vertex Effects Thank you! I did try straight into the amp for both and only happens when the 2 different pedal boards are plugged in. If anything, I use all Mogami soldered cables on my board and for the guitar but the noise happens with my setup. I’ll look into some of the ones that you use.
@@zackguitar07 try the guitar volume off thing first just to isolate if the pickups have something to do with it. Having higher output pickups might also exaggerate the issue.
I would like to ser you ensambling a pedalboard with a looper switch like the gig rig 2 or boss es8
See the playlist, there are lots of those videos:
1) ua-cam.com/video/QahzBHLSfS8/v-deo.html
2) ua-cam.com/video/iMalcGeN0p8/v-deo.html
3) ua-cam.com/video/G5cC8l03wGM/v-deo.html
4) ua-cam.com/video/ur75eTvARys/v-deo.html
This concept of adding a plywood layer has occurred to me before, given these pedalboards invariably have huge gaps leading to the inability to place pedals where you really want them, with lots of wasted space where the open channels are. Then I wonder why use an expensive metal undercarriage at all when the whole thing could be made from wood for a fraction of the cost. In this video the board was screwed to the top of the frame and then for some reason it skipped to all the pedals already being in place, which left me wondering how the pedals were attached to the plywood. Was Velcro still used???? Why was this important detail skipped over?
Hey TIO as always great vid man!! Hey can you PLEASE post like a list of pedals in the order they should go? I couldn’t find anything like that in your channel. I have:
Line 6 wireless->Tuner->wah->OCD->Texas Trouble->MXR Distortion->EQ->Phaser->Tremelo->Delay->Reverb->Volume pedal->Looper->Hot Rod Deluxe amp. I do not use FX LOOP. Is that path ok?
Yo PRIMO! I like this order, maybe try Phaser before drives, and volume pedal after drives. Effects loop isn’t necessary if you’re going to use the clean channel of the amp.
Vertex Effects thank you!!! Your word is golden around my house!! I use the volume pedal like a master volume. When ever your in San Diego let me know, we’ll grab some fish tacos and a Modelo...
@@dbltap3332 it's still a master volume if you put after drives, the delays will trail off, as will reverb, but it won't add volume or output after the volume pedal. Try it and see for yourself.
Vertex Effects ahhhhh gotcha!!! THANKS MAN!!!!
@@dbltap3332 you're welcome!
Dude these vids are so crazy awesome
Wondering if the added 3/8-1/2” of plywood makes it harder to close the case...
I have the PT-Pro, and it already feels like I’m pushing down pretty hard on my effects in the back row... nothing crazy up there either... just typical “Boss” height stuff.
Did you guys run into anything like that, good doctor? 🤔
We didn’t run into any issues, however the pedals are not very high on the back row. There are no taller than a normal pedal train with maybe some taller pedals on them. Everything fit perfectly.
What size screws did you use?? :)
That’s what I’m wondering
Hey Mason and Gang.
I'm ordering my parts to do a project like this to maximize area for a pedal train.
The link in the description for GoMC navigates to a page to custom order specific size laminated board.
However, it has an aluminum U-channel which I don't want.
Do they have an option for a laminated board without the aluminum U-channel...?
I learned tons from your channel which has helped me help my guitar friends here in Phoenix.
I am truly grateful for your willingness to share all the info and tips.
Thank you,
johnWphx
Sounds like you should just email them this video so they know what you want
Can you go a little more in depth on the mounting of the top for the PT3? I'm thinking about doing the same since I now have a PBC 6x and the PT design doesn't seem very switcher friendly, but I'm not super handy. Like...I own tools...but that's about it. ;-)
Is the tuner first in the signal chain or can it be in any order? Thanks!
RocketBoy1969 is recommend putting it first, but here it’s in the Tuner Output on the Volume Pedal.
I love these videos!
SD Design stay tuned for tomorrow!
Nice PRS.
Yes indeed
what are they pyramid-y looking sticky-backed cable routing things on the bottomside of the board - and where can they be sourced ? tia
Cable tie down mounts. You can find them here www.therigdr.com
@@VertexEffectsInc thx found em on Amazon
How much was the laminated plywood? Great video !!!
$30ish as I recall. It was one of those situations where the shipping was almost as much is the item itself, this would be something you could pretty easily make yourself if you needed to.
Hey Mason. What's your opinion on those Dunlop VP's? I've have an Ernie Ball that I'm not exactly in love with. Would love to switch it out, and those Dunlop ones seem pretty sturdy, and slightly smaller footprint too
Since the top surface of the board has a formica laminate, did you do anything to prevent the formica from cracking when you drilled holes for the cables?
If you pre-drill with smaller bits it's fine.
Rig Doctor….love your videos; HELP….I am looking for a soft shell case (similar to what comes with a pedaltrain)…..BUT….I want wheels on soft shelled case. I DO NOT want a super heavy plywood tour case. I just want a roller-bag. WHERE?
Not sure...maybe look for something for photo cases on B&H, that's more common in that industry.
Great video, I was disappointed he never turned on any drives 🤷🏽♂️
Good point! We did have some footage of the drives, well audio at least. Are Sony cameras right on 30 minute loops, and it cut off the first minute or two of the demo before we realize that we weren’t rolling! I have all the audio if you want it, I can send it to you in a Dropbox, otherwise this is what we actually have footage of so that’s what we ended up using in the video. Sorry!
Vertex Effects that’s cool, I watch Kerry’s UA-cam as well, he’s got a great sound going, I was just waiting in the video to hear how it turned out, it’s all good though, I love all the pedal boards you’ve built, amazing stuff
@@w1third Thanks again for watching!
Does the boost pedal changed the color, like magic?
Hahah - I mentioned midway on the video that the boost that Kerry originally had had gotten kicked by a roadie with a cable in it and broke the input jack. I didn’t have time in the eight hour span of the build to repair it before he left for tour so we loaned him one of our demo boosts in the meantime.
@@VertexEffectsInc Great :)
Your Job inspire me to do the same thing, here in Brazil :)
Dornier Stoll thank you so much! Glad it’s helping!!!
Great video, thank you!
I don’t understand the signal chain and how did you make tuner engaged without muting signal..
thanks again :)
The tuner is coming out of the Tuner Out on the Volume Pedal, however when I see Kerry later this month we're going to route it out of the Vertex Boost so it doesn't load the signal down - we didn't notice a problem, but because we had about 8 hours to do the entire rig and had to make few time saving decisions - this was one of them. We're also going to add a small interface under the board as well when we update in a few weeks.
@@VertexEffectsInc I have a JHS modded Ernie Ball Vol. Pedal Jr. Does this mod solve the loading issue you're referring to here?
Dean I don’t know if they buffer the tuner out, if they do, no problem, if they don’t, I would put the tuner in line.
*VERTEX* (noun) \ˈvər-ˌteks \ : the highest point; the top or apex! 👍
SD Design 🔥🔥🔥
@@VertexEffectsInc Rad video Rig Doctor! That was killer (as usual) 😎
p.s. What model Mesa Boogie was that on the floor?
Mark IIC+
@@VertexEffectsInc Those amps are boss! Back in the 80's (while living in SF) I had a buddy who had a *Mesa Boogie* full stack, a Gibson Les Paul Custom "Black Beauty" and an EHX Memory Man. He got me into listening to Jeff Beck.
Super cool amps!
What size of self tapping screws did you use to go from the bottom of the pedal train into the plywood?
Either #8 or #10 I think.
What brand/model/size hole saw did you use for the audio cables to feed through?
I used a DeWalt with two 1" drill bit to get through the pedalboard surface to the power supply.
Ok I’ve ordered the Classic 2 PT what size is that GOMC board you used to cover the PT??? I want to do this as well. You know me Mason! I always take your recommendations!!!!
I think we just had it made to size custom. I'm also going to be selling metal "skins" for pedaltrains here soon in the next month or two.
@@VertexEffectsInc I'm finding out that companies are starting to finally build for PT boards. Should have been doing that long ago since PT doesn't. PT just makes bigger boards. Pretty soon the front of the stage is covered in PT board....lol. Can't see the crowd cuz my PT board is 18 ft wide now!!!! LOL Get your buddies to help us too. The PT board market is wide open and you need to jump on it before PT gets wise and starts making this stuff and putting it in Guitar Center down the street.
@@VertexEffectsInc do you have a link for pedaltrain skins?
Make more red Boosts please!
telecasper we have them In Stock now vertexeffects.com/store
Hey Vertex! Man! What is this backing track? I recognise the track feat. Dan Huff on guitar. What is the name of this track?
All the backing tracks are listed in the description.
Smashing all those pedals together.. yikes. I’d be crying if my hand painted zvex got ding up like that.
Huh?
A Sea Ox is a close cousin to the Manatee, or Sea Cow ;-)
Huh?
@@VertexEffectsInc haha - your pronunciation of CIOKS caught me offguard when I heard it cuz I have always heard it pronounced "chox". I have no idea what is the right way to say it, I just hadn't heard it that way and it made me chuckle and made me image a Sea Ox, which led to my clearly hilarious, on point quip ;-)
@@gr81dorn I think he pronounces it as CHALKS. That's the right way to say it.
@@VertexEffectsInc 7:13
Is Kerry also left handed playing a right handed guitar?
Mason, the link for the Mogami 2524 w/Silent Plug under "RIG DR'S PEDALBOARD FIRST AID KIT:" is broken.
Sonic Pickups Thanks for the heads up! We have it fixed!
@@VertexEffectsInc Just tried it again and got the same "404 Error" on the Revelation Cable Co page.
What was the pedal used to accomplish that beautiful sound @10:35?
I think it was Delay and some Comp
It's not pronouced See-Ox, but like Chucks.
Poul who runs the company is of Polish decent, hence the funky spelling/pronouciation.
Their PSUs are build like tanks, and they deliver, I have them on my own, and have put them on other peoples boards, for the last 16 years, and they have never failed me.
Thanks for the clarification!
Thanks for the clarification!
@@VertexEffectsInc You're welcome. I called it See-Ox for a long time before someone enligthened me.
commiebitch42 thanks again, old phonics habits die hard!
I have a PedalTrain Terra 42. I'll be laminating the bottom of the plywood surface with ABS laminate and formica on the top.
In order to reduce weight (my back would thank you), is 1/2" plywood what you would recommend or could I use something lighter lighter like 1/4" or 3/8"?
I would actually, time permitting, if I were building this rig again would have just done it with aluminum like we did on our John Mayer giveaway rig with Sweetwater ( you can find on our channel). I got Fix Pedalboards to make me a sheet of powder coated aluminum that matched the size of the TP and was pre-drilled for me. Make it super easy and way less weight than the laminated wood.
@@VertexEffectsInc Unfortunately, I’m committed to plywood since I already ordered the ABS and Formica laminates. :(
With that in mind, would 1/4” work, or should I go with thicker plywood?
@@DaveKleinCMT you should be fine since it's against another surface and you'll be laminating it with ABS and Formica
Could you provide detailed specs of what screws to buy for someone who wants to do this to their own pedal train but maybe isn't the most knowledgeable when it comes to hardware buying. Also, can we buy precut tops to go on a pedal train from GOMC? Thanks so much!
My pleasure, I am drilling pilot holes into the bottom of the primary rails on the left and right of the pedal train platform. I’m using a step drill bit to do this, boring out the whole until it will clear enough space to fit a number eight wood screw, I used a half inch length. I only bore out the hole on one side of the frame, and then drill a hole on the other side where the wood will be touching so that there’s only enough circumference to clear the wood screw. This means the outside hole is somewhere around a quarter inch in diameter, the inner whole is somewhere around a 16th of an inch. Then you line up your platform, and you can drill it right through very easily and securely. GOMC will make any size platform you want. You can reference this video, mention my name, and ask for Nate or Ed.
What length screws did you use to attach the wood to the pedaltrain?
I think 1”
@@VertexEffectsInc Thank you.
Hi @Vertex Effect,
I’m trying to rebuild my pedal train, can you help me with one thing.
Where can I buy the birch plywood for pro classic 32”x16”
Thanks
Get Off My Case (GOMC)
Kerry which PRS axe is that?Thanks
It’s a DGT
What is the Teal pedal that looks similair to the D&M Drive?
Aria???
Rig Doc, do you know anyone who does the same work from NY? i need a flatboard
I don't, but you can buy the flat surface from GOMC, we've linked them in the description.
Good stuff
Kerry2Smooth!
The man!!!!
No buffers?
No, no stand alone buffers on this one.
GREAT IDEA WITH THE TOP BOARD, DAVE FRIEDMAN AND DAVE PHILLIPS DONE MY BOARDS BUT NEVER SUGGESTED THE EXTRA WOOD ON TOP.
I saw this idea from Xacttone, and thought it was a easy way to maximize surface area if you’re going to use a Pedaltrain
What's the song in the background? 6:35
It's a Dann Huff song demo with Giant.
Hi Mason, Very nice video. Where can I purchase 1/2" Laminated plywood with formica on top and abs on the bottom in black? Pre cut to 18 by 14 & 1/2 ".
I got this one from Get Off My Case (GOMC).
I ordered from GOMC they don't offer just the topper on the website you need to send them an email with your specs. I ordered about 3 weeks ago and the board is finally on its way to me. Hope that helps.
Any idea as to why the D'addario tuners make the high pitch noise when using it on the tuner out of volume pedals? I noticed it after suggesting one to a friend who runs a volume pedal.
I haven’t had time to fully go through it, it seems that it’s only through passive volume pedals, also if you have a pedal on it seems to not do it so it may be something to do with the input impedance having some sensitivity. I like the tuners, just didn’t have time that day to deal with a work around.
@@VertexEffectsInc Well, I'm about to put together a board with it in that configuration. I will, however, have a buffer (Mesa Highwire) in front of the entire pedal board chain so maybe (hopefully) that will mitigate the noise.
@@ggavalakis to me, it really comes down to three things 1) power supply quality and isolation 2) pedal placement relative to supply (especially for linear toroid supplies) and 3) high quality SOLDERED shielded cables (I like Mogami 2319 for patch cables). If you hit those marks, you'll be as noise free as possible for 99% of scenarios.
@@ggavalakis as for the Tuner, the input buffer is split off the tuner so you shouldn't have an issue.
@@VertexEffectsInc Why do you feel soldered is better for signal noise/clarity? Reliability, I can see. For better or worse, I have the Lava cable Tightrope solder-free pedal cable kit. No issues thus far. However, I'm not a touring musician. I only play 3-4 gigs a months locally.
Hi, everyone! Could someone tell me, how many "mA" does TC Polytune 3 actually need?! It's written, that 100mA or more, but is it true?
Not sure, I don't have one to test for you - but I'd be surprised if it's at 100mA, typically pedals are listed a big higher than their actual draw - we linked a Truetone mA reader in the description box that could help you know for sure.
@@VertexEffectsInc Thank you!
My pleasure!
how did you screw the laminate board? considering this for my classic2
Drilled out four holes in the corners of the Pedaltrain. I drilled it with a #10 screw size hole, then drilled a second time to get the head of the #10 screw head to clear the outside of the frame. I used wood screws as the screw go through the pre drilled metal but are only secured to the wood. I bought the laminated wood with Formica from GOMC Cases.
I was wondering how the DualLock or Power Gripping will hold on the wood.
Also considering Perforated Handy Panel plywood (if aluminum available,better) if possible. You think the grips will hold?
@@jabez1409 replying to get the same response