Apologies again if the audio is a bit off, I'll get it sorted soon enough. Here are links to the channels mentioned at the end of the video: Comical Cheese "Star Wars Thriller": ua-cam.com/video/LFaMh_e3Jj4/v-deo.html&feature=emb_logo The Dresden Files Podcast: ua-cam.com/channels/_3hlATGlv_IHFWVINPjrSw.html
Grievous in '03: formidable foe and genuine threat to the Jedi. Grievous in '08: "I would have gotten away with it too, if it hadn't been for you pesky clones!"
To be honest, I liked both versions of the clone wars. They both had their own ways of showing how the clone wars transpired, between Attack of the Clones and Revenge of the Sith in various aspects.
Agree sorta. Much respect for the 2003 version but I just couldn't enjoy it because I always felt sick whenever watching it. Not really anything I can do
@@emberfist8347 Well I'm sorry but the way the Siege of the Chancellor was presented in 2003 is far better and more cohesive than the 'canon' version now on Disney+. Grievous was so much and much more of a Jedi threat in 2003, Dooku was much more of Sith Lord. And I could go on and on but like I said they both have advantages and disadvantages of course.
Actually, Anakin and Obi-Wan's interactions in the 2003 series was more in line with both Episodes II and III. Volume 1 leans towards Episode II while Volume 2 leans towards Episode III.
Yea especially when it’s made clear that clones were not really important to the Jedi. It helps enforce what we see with Oddball in ROTS. There hardly has been that connection with Jedi and clones, it’s not saying that there weren’t any, but at least in the two films we see a careless group of knights giving no importance to the ethics of sentient clones only caring for man power.
100% agree. I think people forget some moments in Episode III mirror his behavior in AoTC. But then again I’m biased because it’s way more mature, felt epic, and had better writing.
@@thorskywalker I don't feel that way at all. I was actually referring to the dynamic between Obi-Wan and Anakin. In Episode II, Obi-Wan is judgmental towards Anakin and the latter is arrogant and impulsive. These are the dominant traits in Anakin and Obi-Wan during Volume 1. But in Volume 2, we see how the war has allowed the two to bond as actual friends rather than just teacher and student. Obi-Wan treats Anakin as an equal and Anakin has become more mature and in line with the Anakin we see in Episode III.
Even though the 2003 clone wars was made non canon, I still consider some parts, like General Grievous intro and Anakin's knighting is part of the saga
I like the 03 version of the clone wars. It leaves more details open and fits in better with the EU. Not to mention it's much easier to watch in chronological order.
2003 was smack dab in the middle of a golden age for Star Wars I really am lucky to have experienced it as a kid. I do hope we get a new era of Star Wars games for next Gen if EA can learn from Fallen order’s success.
@TexasRed 01 It is, but EA won’t learn. Don’t hold any hope for another good SW video game; they’ve had ample time to do well with the license and failed. Honestly the only way to return to something remotely similar to the past would be Lucasfilm removing the exclusive license from EA.
'08 still has moments where grievous is actually intimidating. For instance when obiwan's ship is boarded before he can help ahsoka when she's in trouble or something I don't remember from that ark besides this bit where grievous is mercilessly hacking and slashing through the 212th and obiwan ends up needing to blow up his own ship and run away switching the roles between obi and grievous
Yeah. Grievous wasn’t a very serious character in the first few seasons but in the later seasons, he was treated with more respect and is more of a threat.
DatGuy ehhh idk about respect -just compare fetal position Grievous getting shot at by Slave I in TCW to “Shoot him down, shoot HIM DOWN” Grievous in 2003 CW.
@@night6724 I prefer just considering both shows completely canon. I just overlook the tiny inconsistencies in 03 as it being an overdramatisation of canon events.
2003 easily takes my heart and nostalgia. I just love how flashy it is and how amazing it makes grievous look, he looks like a monstrosity of a Jedi killer. Even the clones look more professional as skilled
Fake Sense one thing I really appreciated about the 2003 version was how competent the clone were, at least the arcs. Everyone was overpowered which in my opinion wasn’t great but the clones just had that professionalism to them that the 2008 versions didn’t have. I wish we could combine the competency and personality of the two versions into one.
@@punctuationman334 apart from how so many in the 03 show died so easily, I can see what you mean, though the 2008 show is more grounded in a sense to the clones won't be nearly as ridiculously OP as the 03 as that series had more exaggerated epicness to it.
2003 is much closer to the spirit of the movies. Many people will say that TCW is better than the movies but those people should just go back to playing CoD and watching How I met your Mother.
When 2008 scores it really scores but when it misses it really misses. Even in this final season better believe I will be skipping the Martez sister episodes even though I love Elizabeth Rodriguez. Also, one thing 2003 didn’t do was rewrite canon.
Yeah, that's the only real reason 2008 gives me an extremely bad taste in my mouth, because it got rid of 30+ years of content, what they did to some of the characters is just nasty (looking at you, Grievous)
I had to vote for equally. 2003 was what I imagined the Clone Wars would be like chaotic with villains being horrifying, Durge, Grevious and Asajj Ventress mowing down clones and the droids aren't dumb. While the heros were just as heroic as they possibly can, Shaak Ti stealing the show each time she shows up. 2008 is great but it really gets going in season 3 and didn't drag me fully in till the Umbara Arc. Both have their ups and downs but I have enjoyed both, I can't choose which is better. It isn't as cut and dry like the movies.
Yes indeed. Mistakes I think they made: 1. Grievous encountering Obi Wan nearly every time he engages in battle. "And I would have gotten away with it, if it wasn't for that meddling Kenobi!" 2. Dooku meeting Anakin every other week, significantly reducing the impact of ROTS. 3. The Chip nonsense. This completely ruins the gravitas and brilliance as well as tragedy of Order 66 and the fall of the Jedi. It's a brilliant evil plan and legal executive order that makes it incredibly powerful in ROTS. The chip nonsense is unnecessary and does not conform to the movie canon. 4. Individualising TOO MANY clones. The clone troopers should only be as good as their commanders. They obey any order without question. They are shown to be Clone Stormtroopers once the "moral" Jedi are done away with. I can understand some Clone Commandos being grown and bred differently and a few ARCs like Rex. But the entire army in the show seems to be made of individuals with personalities and ideas who often disobey orders and are insubordinate. 5. THE CIS CONSTANTLY LOSING. The show makes it feel like the Republic didn't even need the Clone Army and the war could have been won 2 weeks after AOTC. The CIS should be a formidable organisation with massive public support thanks to impassioned speeches of Dooku and questions about corruption in the Republic. The Jedi should be struggling and taking loses, tragically being thrown onto the front lines by the Republic. Grievous should be besting some Jedi Masters to make him a threat. The CIS should be WINNING on merit through superior droid forces in some cases and better tactics to create a stalemate. 6. The show does not show us enough JEDI. This is the golden era of Jedi. We should be seeing LOTS of Jedi Masters like Master Di, Stass Allie, Shaak Ti, Adia Gallia, Kit Fisto, Mace Windu etc on the front line. Many of these Jedi should prove to be the shifting of the tide in battles whilst others should also tragically fall. 7. NOT ENOUGH AAYLA SECURA. I think that I don't need to elaborate why. 8. NOT ENOUGH AAYLA SECURA. This is so important it deserves an additional bullet point. 9. Not enough young Jedi of Anakin's age to compare how he acts versus others when it comes to romance, attachment and dealing with difficult battle situations. 10. Not showing us Labrynth of Evil (a great book) as a feature length show. 11. Not showing more Clone Commandos because they look cool. 12. Going off on tangents. Absolutely zero need to make the show about Maul. Is Darth Maul a great character? HELL YES. But a show about Maul should be set BEFORE TPM. And not in the Clone Wars. So many episodes went off to cover the Nightsisters, or children being stolen by Sidious. But this show should be about THE WAR. Conflicts and machinations. 13. NOT ENOUGH AAYLA SECURA DAMMIT.
Both, each one is similar yet different in their own ways yet equally brilliant. 2003 was just epic with the battle sequences, and the 2008-2020 version shows a more in-depth story of the characters. Can’t hate on either, they’re both great.
Yes indeed. Mistakes in the newer series I think they made: 1. Grievous encountering Obi Wan nearly every time he engages in battle. "And I would have gotten away with it, if it wasn't for that meddling Kenobi!" 2. Dooku meeting Anakin every other week, significantly reducing the impact of ROTS. 3. The Chip nonsense. This completely ruins the gravitas and brilliance as well as tragedy of Order 66 and the fall of the Jedi. It's a brilliant evil plan and legal executive order that makes it incredibly powerful in ROTS. The chip nonsense is unnecessary and does not conform to the movie canon. 4. Individualising TOO MANY clones. The clone troopers should only be as good as their commanders. They obey any order without question. They are shown to be Clone Stormtroopers once the "moral" Jedi are done away with. I can understand some Clone Commandos being grown and bred differently and a few ARCs like Rex. But the entire army in the show seems to be made of individuals with personalities and ideas who often disobey orders and are insubordinate. 5. THE CIS CONSTANTLY LOSING. The show makes it feel like the Republic didn't even need the Clone Army and the war could have been won 2 weeks after AOTC. The CIS should be a formidable organisation with massive public support thanks to impassioned speeches of Dooku and questions about corruption in the Republic. The Jedi should be struggling and taking loses, tragically being thrown onto the front lines by the Republic. Grievous should be besting some Jedi Masters to make him a threat. The CIS should be WINNING on merit through superior droid forces in some cases and better tactics to create a stalemate. 6. The show does not show us enough JEDI. This is the golden era of Jedi. We should be seeing LOTS of Jedi Masters like Master Di, Stass Allie, Shaak Ti, Adia Gallia, Kit Fisto, Mace Windu etc on the front line. Many of these Jedi should prove to be the shifting of the tide in battles whilst others should also tragically fall. 7. NOT ENOUGH AAYLA SECURA. I think that I don't need to elaborate why. 8. NOT ENOUGH AAYLA SECURA. This is so important it deserves an additional bullet point. 9. Not enough young Jedi of Anakin's age to compare how he acts versus others when it comes to romance, attachment and dealing with difficult battle situations. 10. Not showing us Labrynth of Evil (a great book) as a feature length show. 11. Not showing more Clone Commandos because they look cool. 12. Going off on tangents. Absolutely zero need to make the show about Maul. Is Darth Maul a great character? HELL YES. But a show about Maul should be set BEFORE TPM. And not in the Clone Wars. So many episodes went off to cover the Nightsisters, or children being stolen by Sidious. But this show should be about THE WAR. Conflicts and machinations. 13. NOT ENOUGH AAYLA SECURA DAMMIT.
If you're only talking about the shows, then perhaps. But if we count the entirety of the CW Multimedia Project vs TCW, fuck no. CW is pathetically shallow and mostly serves for Filoni to play with his Star Wars ragdolls.
That's not really true. Anakins scar is shown first in the hero montage wich introduces his long haired appearance. They don't show where the scar comes from. Looking at the show you would assume that Ventress is dead by this point.
Thor Skywalker do you overuse the word “now” irl as well? Also, when’s that sequel to The Lost Jedi coming out? Have you forgotten it? Because I sure as heck haven’t! Or has it been pushed aside in favor of that new sequel trilogy project of yours?
The funny thing is I don't think I overuse "now" in my day to day life. And, no, I certainly haven't forgotten about a sequel to The Lost Jedi. I absolutely will go back to finish that story at some point.
Easily 2003, it was amazing, well thought out and it didn't screw with the continuity. Plus GRIEVOUS, I mean in 2003 he is a force of nature and impending doom. Also it had the good sense not to bring Maul back needlessly eating screen time but ultimately doing nothing whatsoever of importance to the story.
SPOT ON. 2003 felt like a war. Mistakes I think they made in 2008: 1. Grievous encountering Obi Wan nearly every time he engages in battle. "And I would have gotten away with it, if it wasn't for that meddling Kenobi!" 2. Dooku meeting Anakin every other week, significantly reducing the impact of ROTS. 3. The Chip nonsense. This completely ruins the gravitas and brilliance as well as tragedy of Order 66 and the fall of the Jedi. It's a brilliant evil plan and legal executive order that makes it incredibly powerful in ROTS. The chip nonsense is unnecessary and does not conform to the movie canon. 4. Individualising TOO MANY clones. The clone troopers should only be as good as their commanders. They obey any order without question. They are shown to be Clone Stormtroopers once the "moral" Jedi are done away with. I can understand some Clone Commandos being grown and bred differently and a few ARCs like Rex. But the entire army in the show seems to be made of individuals with personalities and ideas who often disobey orders and are insubordinate. 5. THE CIS CONSTANTLY LOSING. The show makes it feel like the Republic didn't even need the Clone Army and the war could have been won 2 weeks after AOTC. The CIS should be a formidable organisation with massive public support thanks to impassioned speeches of Dooku and questions about corruption in the Republic. The Jedi should be struggling and taking loses, tragically being thrown onto the front lines by the Republic. Grievous should be besting some Jedi Masters to make him a threat. The CIS should be WINNING on merit through superior droid forces in some cases and better tactics to create a stalemate. 6. The show does not show us enough JEDI. This is the golden era of Jedi. We should be seeing LOTS of Jedi Masters like Master Di, Stass Allie, Shaak Ti, Adia Gallia, Kit Fisto, Mace Windu etc on the front line. Many of these Jedi should prove to be the shifting of the tide in battles whilst others should also tragically fall. 7. NOT ENOUGH AAYLA SECURA. I think that I don't need to elaborate why. 8. NOT ENOUGH AAYLA SECURA. This is so important it deserves an additional bullet point. 9. Not enough young Jedi of Anakin's age to compare how he acts versus others when it comes to romance, attachment and dealing with difficult battle situations. 10. Not showing us Labrynth of Evil (a great book) as a feature length show. 11. Not showing more Clone Commandos because they look cool. 12. Going off on tangents. Absolutely zero need to make the show about Maul. Is Darth Maul a great character? HELL YES. But a show about Maul should be set BEFORE TPM. And not in the Clone Wars. So many episodes went off to cover the Nightsisters, or children being stolen by Sidious. But this show should be about THE WAR. Conflicts and machinations. 13. NOT ENOUGH AAYLA SECURA DAMMIT.
@@darkjediknight2923 Exactly, the show certainly did nothing with all the potential for Grievous and Dooku to have legitimate reasons for what they were doing explored. Focusing on the war, the reasons for it and the failings of the Republic should have taken priority. The Order 66 Chip idea was indeed a terrible addition as having the original be a legal order smuggled into the bureaucracy of hundreds of orders for 'worst case' scenarios was exactly what made it viable in the lore. The entire nature of the CW was it preyed on the Jedi's past devotion to the Republic against an external threat, without ever realizing the real danger was IN the Republic itself. I also agree that most of the individualistic clones should be the Higher ranking ones bred for more autonomy and adaptation, the lower level ones had alterations specifically to their minds to be obedient to the Legal Authority-which was, Palpatine, that's what makes it so brilliant, by starting the war at all the Jedi already lost, arguably before that they were already losing, because Palpatine was democratically and duly elected. He was beloved by that time. By attacking Geonosis, the Jedi could be portrayed as the villains who started the war, gave the CIS the excuse to secede by war and later the fact that Dooku-a former Jedi led the CIS-could be used to frame the war as a Jedi plot to overthrow the Republic is sheer genius. We should see the failings of the Jedi, the rampant corruption in the Senate, the brutality of the war and episodes dealing with Grievous, Dooku and the Separatist leaders backstories detailing why they are the way they are. how about exploring droid sentience? The fact that over time without memory wipes the droids genuinely DO develop a fear of death and a desire to live? That could put tons of new context into the B1s, Super battle Droids and even the Magnaguards that are often used as cannon fodder or jokes. Instead in the 2008 show we got a bunch of side stories that didn't matter, villain decay and stereotypes.
@@grandadmiralzaarin4962 "You are strong and wise." I concur. Whilst there were some good stories, there were too many detours and unnecessary things. There was a lot of potential to go into depth about Grievous being revealed and him being seen as a massive threat/danger. We should have seen him take on multiple Jedi, including Masters, and best them. See him use superior tactics and have his droids, who sometimes have inferior numbers, completely outclass the Republic clone army. Dooku should have been the same charismatic leader of AOTC, advocating the cause of the CIS to systems and winning on merit. Instead they turned his esteemed character into a cartoonish villain. The CIS was meant to contain good in it - the ROTS opening says "There are heroes on both sides." Instead they made it pure evil, unnecessarily killing populations. We should have seen far more planets who were against the Republic and more native populations who were fighting alongside/commanding the droids against the Jedi led clones. Oh god, the Order 66 chip idea was completely ABSURD. I totally agree it was unnecessary. No need for it. The Films (both AOTC and ROTS) explain everything perfectly and tell a brilliant story. The lore according to George Lucas (and various comics/books) was exactly what you described. Order 66 was a contingency order smuggled into the bureaucracy of the Republic, overlooked by the Jedi. Ultimately the Jedi Generals (and Jedi Council) oversaw the Army. But ultimately the highest point on the command chain was the Chancellor. Had the Jedi Council ousted Palpatine in a coup - through his removal from office, or execution (e.g. had Windu who bested Palpatine been allowed to kill him there and then), then the Jedi Council would have remained the highest executive authority. Would have been interesting to see a Jedi Junta enforce their will with the Army under their command! But yes, Palpatine had positioned himself superbly. An evil plan - but pure brilliance. This is something that the Jedi Council would have to give thunderous applause to. Palpatine makes the Jedi look evil, gives himself the justification to brand them as usurpers to the whole galaxy, and duly brands them enemies of the state. SUPERBLY PUT - the Jedi did not realise that the threat to the Republic (and themselves) came from within, not without. The enemy was hidden in plain sight. I think the book Labrynth of Evil brilliantly highlighted this and the search for Sidious. Would be great as a movie. I agree that the film explanation is perfect and makes Order 66 - with that moving music - all the more tragic. Seeing the Jedi Generals gunned down by their own troops - the Jedi being betrayed - is heart breaking. That scene with Mundi turning around to see the troopers line up like a firing squad, Aayla Secura surprised from behind and the fighter shot down with Kloon in it. That's tragedy. I agree that Palpatine was the legal leader. In theory, this was a coup by the Jedi. Of course it was moral, but it was illegal. The Senate was totally corrupt and although Palpatine has an ulterior motive to destroy the Jedi Order, he has got a point. He literally spells it out in TPM. I mean that was one hell of a manifesto as he lists the crimes of the corrupt Republic. You can tell he is sincere and is disgusted by the rot within. The Jedi had become complacent in their Ivory tower, unwittingly serving a corrupt government that cared not for the people. You can see Qui Gon conflicted seeing the Republic does not enforce the law on places like Tatooine and he is not empowered to help people. Yes that would be hilarious if they showed us droids becoming sentient. I mean given they went and randomly made virtually every single clone trooper an individual (which is not the case since they are meant to be effectively soldiers who obey any order and are only as good as their officers who give them), might as well have made the B1s hesitant. And they are ruthlessly killed by the "clones" despite pleading for their life. I agree on villain decay. Such wasted potential. I also think that we needed to see Anakin and Obi Wan together more. They are meant to be a dynamic duo. Certainly should have seen Anakin attain knighthood. He also tends to speak out of his place too much. He isn't a General, he's a Jedi Knight and below Council members, yet sometimes he's giving the orders when other higher ranking people are present! Rank insubordination! It would have been great to see more Jedi Masters and Knights such as Master Di, Shaak Ti etc. Some win, and some fall. I think a great comic showed us a random Jedi Knight at a battle which they were losing. The Phase 1 clone troopers - the last squad - ask him what are his orders. The Jedi merely says "Die well." And that they do. That is what we should have seen. Not comical cartoon villains where the Republic always win and the CIS only wins by some evil plan that poisons the population or something. I would also personally have used the show as an opportunity to explore how other Jedi of Anakin's age - e.g. Aayla Secura - act. Both in terms of romantic attachment (imagine a citizen ruler of a world having the hots for her), Force skills and feelings about the war and Republic. It would have been nice to have the Jedi also wear robes more often. They all seem to have military uniforms on which doesn't match the films. In short, the show could have been so much more.
@@fightingmedialounge519 we already had a clear explanation. They are genetically engineered for obedience and to follow the chain of command. Both of those make more sense than, magic chip make bad, especially when following CGI TCW plot the Jedi learn Dooku ordered the army, is Tyranus, had a Clone trooper shoot a Jedi before Order 66 so they know chips exist in an army literally created by someone they are at war with but just chose to ignore it. It makes far more sense for it to be a legal order-one of over a hundred- and worded in a way so that the Jedi themselves would see it as only applying if they turned as a whole against the REPUBLIC, which they took to mean the Order had fallen to the Dark Side. That's the brilliance of the old lore set up, the new chip not only makes it much less believable but directly flies in the face of the world building in their own universe.
I actually made four Clone Wars edits that try to tie in to the 2008 series. They arent perfect (especially the Epilogue since it was made before the Siege of Mandalore was annoinced) but they do their job as a prologue and epilogue to the 2008 series which was still cancelled at the time. I also fitted the Nelvaan episode as an event that happens during thes series! I'd loved if Thor would watch them and give his thoughts about these canon edits I made!
I love them both equally.. Can't give opinion yet since Current CloneWars is still going.. No Matter What Version Of General Grevious,He's Still Shorter Than I Expected
I like to think in my head canon that everything leading to and including Anakin's Knighting is canon. Also I hope Disney makes "The Lost Arcs" where they do the rest of the season 7 arcs and have like two Battle Of Coruscant episodes where that sexy new Grievous model just carves up Jedi (pretty much what we got in original Clone Wars).
Especially if they were as long as the later half. Going from an action short, to a 10 minute time slot really helped for pacing and character development.
@@miserquemiguel2144 Well 1st off you ruined the joke. And second of all if it wasn't for the original clone wars the 08' one would be nothing... That's a fact.
@@thorskywalker Do you have any plans to revisit Maul and Ahsoka in Battle of the heroes and villains after the Siege of Mandalore ends? The results might be a bit different.
Ondra Maceska That's a good question. Perhaps I'll try to do some sort of poll asking if The Siege of Mandalore Arc has changed your feelings towards any of the characters. Or something along those lines.
I prefer 2008 version but 2003 to me is just as important, especially how it shows Anakin’s Duel with Ventress getting the scar and the Battle of Coruscant. Those are 2 things I wish were in 2008, as well as Grievous actually being good.
Star master 13 actually, he didn’t get the scar in that duel. That was left unexplained. They had a duel on Coruscant where he got the scar in the comics, though.
Darth Knightwing Phoenix You’re right. It was in a duel with Ventress but not the one on Yavin 4. I think it was on Coruscant and was from a comic book
yeah! some star wars fan yuo are, lowgun fire. not skipping any of the glorious 2003 clone wars? not enjoying the retcons and inconsistencies of 2008 tcw? toxic fan. typical.
Your timing is excellent. I just finished watching all of the 2003 episodes. To get them close in the timeline take the first 21 eps from 2003, put them before the 2008 series, then take the last 4 episode and place them before revenge of the Sith.
There strongest part of the prequels were their themes of war and failure, and the 03 series compliments this really well, showing much more of Anakin's struggle and anger that led to his fall, whereas in the 08 version, he becomes a totally different, much happier person for about four years before returning to his original character. I think in trying to "fix" him, they just made him and his relationships totally inconsistent. The Republic comics do a great job showing his arc correctly too, but Clone Wars is much more important to just downfall. The 08 show also spat in the face of something I'd like to see discussed on this channel, and that's Karen Traviss' Mandalorian culture. She wrote them a beautiful conlang and practical warrior culture, and TCW threw it right out the window. This wasn't a case of the new overwriting the old either. Season 2 and 501st came out the exact same year, plunging that part of the universe into continuity chaos that we still have trouble reconciling
There was a massive rumor that said the the 08 was created to fill a massive time gape of 3 years of conflict between vol 1 ending with Anakin into a fresh knighthood and the final months the siege of the outer rim
@@captainfordo2938 exactly that's why I said there was the rumor but there are few nod to the older series. . .c Besides it match perfectly with the novel for EP III revenge of the sith
2008 gave us Ahsoka, Rex, Fives, and tons of other good characters, as well as furthered developed on Obi-Wan, Maul, the Mandalorians, etc. It was also a big part of my childhood. I’ma have to go with 2008.
I mean, TCW made Maul a literal monster of power and vengeance who travels the galaxy amassing an army of crime lords just to get revenge on Obi-Wan. And he ends up as my third favourite sith. That is a lot more interesting and badass than being a random Sith with a cool lightsaber who comes in, kills Liam Neeson, gets his d**k cut off and dies. (I’m not including stories that describe who Maul was and only using the movies)
I personally prefer the 2003 multimedia project, everyone talks about how the 2008 Clone Wars made the war seem more nuanced, but tbh most of that nuance is "oh the bad guys were pulling the strings and we were unaware, please forgive us,". Tbh the Republic comics are where the most nuance moments in the Clone Wars exist from the Jabiim Arc, to Show of Force, Yoda "Best Blades", "Schism" they give the conflict more nuance then TCW ever did, and show the Jedi as flawed individuals like Mace Windu and Yoda, imperfect generals and how the Jedi have lost their way for realistic reasons. One of my piss offs with TCW is how the butchered Bariss Offee from an adept healer in Legends to a murderer of Jedi, because she felt they lost their way and instead of leaving goes on a killing spree. The Visionaries comics made Grievous a sympathetic and tragic character and the Republic Commando books made Clones sympathetic without writing it into a corner. I think in my early 20s I loved TCW cause it was new, but looking back there are many arcs that are pointless or make little sense, I like the Young Boba Fett arc cause it shows Mace as a flawed Jedi unwilling to accept the damages he has done, and the Umbara Arc because it again showed a flawed Jedi, even though its cartoon villiany to me, there are other arcs of course, but after rewatching some it makes me realize that if you actually think about some of these arcs create more plot holes in the prequels, like the discovery of the inhibitor chip and they find out Dooku made the Clone Army? Hello? Any alarm bells going off? I also find it hard to believe that any of TCW's events really mesh well with the movies tbh, like the movies don't feel like Anakin ever had an apprentice or Maul came back, that is why I liked the Multimedia project, you felt characters like Alpha 17, Ventress (who wasn't used as much), Durge, A'Sharad Hett, Quinlan Voss etc were characters within the war and not necessary to the development of the movie characters and could stand out on their own like Hett or Vos. Just my two cents though, peace.
Love them both equally and consider both canon in my head. There's minor inconsistencies but overall if you count both, they fill in so much more than just each one alone. I feel like if I only considered one canon, I'd be missing so much. I do hope they make most of the events of 03 canon eventually. They've already started to.
You can watch both together. 2008 chose to omit a lot 2003 had already covered: - Character introductions for Grievous & Ventress - How Anakin got his scar - The battle of coruscant
2003 uses its time a hell of a lot better. For all the bloat in the 2008 series they never actually take the time to get into the most important aspects like Anakin and Obi Wan’s relationship. I like a mix of both series but it I had to pick one I’d pick 2003. Just serves as connective tissue a lot better without any Maul nostalgia pandering and eye rolling mandalore plots.
Not really. Eh they do actually, quite a bit in fact we see that. It really doesn't tbh...especially after season 7 of TCW. Maul isn't nostalgia pandering it's expanding on the character and the mandalore plots weren't eye rolling.
I grew up with the prequels, OT, and the '08 series as "my Star Wars". I had seen the last two chapters (24 and 25 I believe) of the '03 series and I, prior to the Siege of Mandalore, considered that to be the official story of how the Clone Wars ended. Suffice to say, I didn't give the '03 series much of a chance until recently when I heard EU-fans constantly try and push me into watching it. A lot of them would claim it was so much better than the new series. And so I did. And my thoughts? Eh, it was nice. Don't get me wrong, I can see why people love the action sequences. They're beautifully made and certainly show off Tartakovsky's creative ability. Watching Windu punch through a bunch of droids, Yoda tossing an entire legion of droids off a ledge, and that Grievous introduction was amazing to watch. But all that action can't make up for the emotional depth of some of the '08 series greatest arcs. Not to mention Maul steals the show any time he's on-screen. I still want to see his duel with Grievous animated someday. I think it really does come down to personal preference. I liked the action from the Tartakovsky's and I liked the emotional weight of the Filoni series. Although, I AM a bit tired of hearing everyone who praises the '03 series parrot the "But much Grievous" argument as if it's the one thing that proves why everything in the 2008 series is bad. Yeah, Grievous was nerfed at times in the 2008 series. Sure. That doesn't mean the whole series is bad though. You can always skip the episodes/arcs you don't like. It's an anthology series for a reason.
Reasons why the 2003 Clone Wars was the best Clone Wars series: 1. It weaves better in with the movies. 2. Anakin feels like Anakin is supposed to be. 3. There's no inhibitor chip that makes the clones execute Order 66. 4. The CIS is a legitimate threat. 5. Anakin doesn't have an apprentice (I don't mind Ahsoka as a character, I just don't like the idea of Anakin having an apprentice). 6. No rivalry between Grievous and Obi-Wan or Dooku and Anakin. 7. Anakin's character arc is smoother. 8. The action sequences are more creative and with more weight. 9. The storytelling is more subtle and in chronological order. 10. The Ghost Hand arc. Honorable mentions: - We get to see the night Luke and Leia are conceived. - Shaggy from Scooby-Doo.
The inhibitor chip is so bullshit. In EP2 was said "The Clones follow every Order". You don't need to know more. And 2003 Clone Wars is so hard more canon as the "The Clone Wars"
@@sven6809 The only thing that might be questioned in CW is how exaggerated force powers and ship battles are. But I believe that's due to the art style moreso than to be taken literally.
@@sven6809 Plus, the clones were never loyal to the Jedi in the first place. They just saw them as their superior officers whom they had to cooperate with to save the Republic. It's also more realistic/believable to have Order 66 a publicly known contingency order that would be put in motion in the event that the Jedi would betray the Republic. Appo even said in Episode III that the Jedi were rebelling against the government. And if Stormtroopers follow every order without question, why shouldn't clones do the same? Heck, many clones were even more than happy to kill the Jedi because of how the Jedi treat them as nothing but cannon fodder, which also fits with how arrogant and sanctimonious the Jedi Order has become. Of course, Anakin treated them with respect because he knows what it's like to be a slave.
Chapters 1 to 21 of the 2003 series are still a really good prologue to the 2008 series, it covers several major events that the new canon has still failed to cover: Anakin’s knighting, Anakin’s first encounter with Asajj and Grievous’ epic entry into the war. The Ithorian Jedi from the 2003-05 series is mentioned in the updated canon lightsaber book, in which it describes his lightsaber being one of the four in Grievous’ possession. And at least the 2003 series was structured chronologically; the 2008 series is all in the place in the first three seasons.
Everybody who was to young or not even born to see the 2003 version back in the day will say TCW 2008, and everybody who saw CW 2003 during their childhood/adolescence will say CW.
Yeah 100% agree, even though the 2008 show has well over a hundred episodes which could put it under risk of dragging on, you just don't feel it with how great the arcs and most of the episodes are, whilst the 2003 show, even though it's only a couple of hours total, it really does drag and gets boring and unengaging.
@@protector_of_the_realms I think you misunderstood my comment. I meant I prefer the shortness and overall better quality of 2003 Clone Wars over the long and overly drawn out 2008 TCW. 03 Clone Wars was short and sweet, It told what needed to be told and that was it. It didn't drag on for endless amounts of Seasons with numerous filler like TCW does.
@@anthonymendez5768 I guessed that was what you actually meant, I was just sorta trolling a bit whilst getting my own sentiments across in a hopefully funny way. lol But your original statement doesn't by default suggest you liked a specific show over another, it was a saying that could actually be applied either way depending upon one's interpretation. Everyone takes quality over quantity, especially in the realm of visual media, and to me through my application and interpretation that means the 2008 show is better as I personally think it's better made with more substance and meaning, telling engaging stories whilst overcoming the detriment of an ongoing long running show, hence "quality" overcoming "quantity" which makes it better in my opinion
First off, no Star Wars show or movie is perfect. Each one has flaws or things we don't like, some are better than others. Having said that, the 2008 series fleshed the years long Clone Wars into a years long event, and that's exactly what should have happened. It wasn't just a few battles; it was a galaxy wide major war. It's what we older fans always wished we could have seen way back in the late 70s and into the 80s! And the 2008 series gave us some great characters and stories. Anyone saying 2008 Anakin was just too nice, your memory is failing you, or you never actually watched the series. Yes he had many moments of being truly good and humane, because he was good and humane! He was a freaking Jedi! He didn't become a monster until later on. But he also had many moments where he was impatient or went rogue, and where he was scary and dangerous. So he was consistent with who he was as the character we always understood him to be.
I think a cool poll could be to ask how people got into or introduced to Star Wars. like for me it was Lego Star Wars Complete saga, 2008 and 2003 clone wars. I'd be interested too see if anyone was drawn in by the sequels or rebels. 2023 edit: Also now that I’ve come back to this video, I gotta say while I love 08 clone wars, the way Filoni completely ran over and disregarded the Clone Wars multimedia project was a huge misstep and mistake. He deserves criticism for that. At least we have a post ex facto solution: 08 clone wars can be moved exclusively to Disney canon, and leave legends clone wars free of continuity errors. Only if Disney would do that… And lol, looking back I can’t believe I wrote all of that 😂. Thanks for the feature!
Personally, I prefer the 08 version for its expansion of the galaxy and exploration of its characters. There are some bad arcs but the nice thing about the show is you can skip weaker arcs. The viewing experience isn’t hurt when you cut out the Jar Jar episodes and the droid episodes and the Trace/Rafa episodes.
@Cole Pratt no it doesn't, TCW has more filler than a long running shounen anime and butchers most of the characters. RIP, Grevious, Mandolorians, Quinlan Vos, Bariss, Arc Troopers, Clone Commandos, and may more.
I’ll give you Grevious, it didn’t do his character justice compared to the 2003 version but the rest I vehemently disagree with. If it wasn’t for TWC we wouldn’t have ever gotten character like Ahsoka or Rez and the pivotal role they played in Anakins life when he descended into darkness and finally became Vader
Both series are amazing. At the very least I wish the 2008 series would have adapted a few key points from the 2003 series like Ventress' introduction, Grievous' introduction, Anakin's knighting and the Battle of Coruscant.
They're both great. The 2003 series was more focused on set peices and fast pased battles. The 2008 series was more focused on story and character. Both are important because it's really the first time SW was on TV. 2003 influenced the 08 series. I mean we just got a shak ti reference from the 03 series in the latest episode in season 7, also Ventress being Dooku's apprentice, jedi wearing clone armor etc. They are both great. Having said that, the 03 series fits in the movies better. Some retcons have been done in the 08 series im not a big fan of. Dooku vs Anakin and Obi wan in Sith feels like the first time they have seen each other since AOTC, Grievous telling Obi wan he was trained by dooku, shouldnt he know that already? Anakin feels more like his film counterpart than 08 anakin. But I still love them both faults and all.
2003 and the whole Multimedia Project as a whole by a pretty significant margin. TCW and its tie-ins are decent overall, but the original Multimedia Project just can't be beat.
@@sven6809 No I believe you that Clone Wars 2003 Vol 1 in Germany is a 16 but I just believe it is weird that in my country Poland Clone Wars 2008 movie & series is a 12 but I cannot find the Polish age rating for the 2003 version. In Poland age ratings aren't on box sets but on display while watching TV it is a weird system. In Poland age ratings are only for TV and not for the cinema which is wrong IMO but that is how it is. It doesn't make sense for it being a 16. I give it like a PG or some equivalent to that.
I like both shows, I grew up with the 2003 and the 2008 clone wars was in my middle school and high school years. I think the 2003 show does a good job of developing Anakin’s character, Setting up revenge of the sith, and General Grievous’s portrayal. With the 2008 clone wars, they go more in depth with the characters and explore more than the main movie characters. I feel like the 2008 clone Wars got to see more of stuff that went on in the galaxy and in 2003 clone wars you saw an overview of the war. Both flesh out the prequel era and help people see the prequels in new light.
Why not both? I love the animation and action of the original, but I love the story and characters of the newer series. They’re both great for different reasons.
03 Clone Wars easily. The reason? When people recommend the 08 show, they always say “oh well it really gets good after the first two seasons.” Only the later parts are good. The entirety of the 03 show is good, and what’s more is that the entire show is about 2 hours long making it perfectly comfortable to watch when you watch the whole saga, it just becomes it’s own movie between 2 and 3. And I would be remiss to not mention 03 Grievous is what made me fall in love with my still favorite SW character, and that Captain Fordo and the Muunilist 10 are more badass than any clones Filoni and company gave ya.
Though I loved it as a kid I really don't like the 2003 Clone Wars and I wouldn't be saying that show is good or gets good to someone I'm recommending star wars to. And for me 08's first 2 seasons is still really good for 75% of it, people just exaggerate how it's not. But in the 2003 show I do love how Grevious was portrayed in it and wish he were that way in modern Clone Wars and also wished they showed some more of the early days in the conflict, I just find the 2003 version a bit uninspiring, dull and lackluster. Its action is so over the top (which I interpret to it being a tale told by kids and witness of the Jedi in battle not an actual depiction of the events, I mean Yoda on a horse and Obi-wan with a medieval lance doesn't make much sense lol) and it doesn't have a lot going for it in plots, dialogue or character development. On my rewatch a couple years back, it was just a bit of a chore to get through and ultimately very boring and uninteresting for me. I actually found myself skipping ahead every few minutes to eventually turn it off and try to finish it another day. I get why some people love it though and it has a couple of things I really dig in it but ultimately I wouldn't recommend it if you're someone not all about action and I really prefer the darker tone, themes, character development, plots, storytelling and dialogue found in the current version which just has some of the best most authentic bits of Star Wars that I always found more true to Lucas's visions and the films to the point where I hold a lot of the arcs from the 2008 show as just as high regard as the Empire Strikes Back as some of the best works of Star Wars visual media I have ever seen.
vnom84 vnom84 hmmm interesting , I read and reread your post and missed the part where it was wholly accurate and representative of how everyone feels, not just spreading misinformation or stating your opinion as fact, which is by default wrong as it's subjective at the very least. I thought I'd clear some stuff up and show you how to actually give an opinion of a piece of visual media by using a lot of I think, I interpret, I find, in my opinion. But evidently I have wasted my efforts as based on your response, you don't wish to engage with other fans and only want to consider your own opinion as gospel
Protector of the Realms I do not care what you have to say. You are 100% correct. In fact, I never cared. And in response to me letting you know that, you wrote a fucking essay that I also have no intention of reading. Stay angry, hombre.
@@vnom84 lmao I aint the one angry swearing and just shouting how much better you think of yourself than everyone else for no reason when no one asked or cares. Keep being heated and saying completely false and wrong stuff, can't be a good way to live, I feel really sorry for you
I'm only a few seasons into 08 but I'd have to say so far I prefer 03, I'm always a fan of a show telling it's story without unnecessary trim, but I sometimes wonder what it would be like if instead of the 08 series we got, they had just brought Genndy back to continue his show and include more stuff in between volumes 1&2
I’m really happy the clone wars is back. These last few years have really killed my passion for Star Wars. I saw each movie in the sequel trilogy for my bday, and I didn’t like them that much, rogue one was the only one I genuinely enjoyed. All the controversy, the hate, the directors saying were sexist for not liking it, fans claiming Star Wars was dying. It broke my heart, I’m 18 and I’ve loved Star Wars since elementary school like most kids. My room is filled with Star Wars. With the mandalorian and the clone wars being released, that joy and passion I had for Star Wars is slowly coming back and I’m reminded of why I loved it so much. I might try getting ahold of some of the books and comics in the future
They both have strong suits, though I do like how the 2003 cartoon really made the Jedi seem overwhelmingly powerful and helped us understand why they were respected and feared, while the Clone Wars 2008 doesn't do nearly as good a job.
I all around prefer the 03 version. While 08 did have a lot more time to explore it's characters, 03 beats it in pretty much every other category. I think it looks a lot better. I've always preferred 2d animation to 3d, And this is no exception. The 2d allows for less restricted movement and more expressive visuals, which carry the weight of the visuals a lot better. It's also more streamlined, which I really like. Yes, the long run of 08 let it go in depth with a lot of things, which is nice, but it also had some bad episodes. Being streamlined means that every moment of 03 is meaningful, and it never drags. There are upsides and downsides, but I personally prefer the shorter, more consistent experience. Finally, I just don't like clones as characters. If you've seen my comments on previous videos, I've said this before, but clones shouldn't be made into people. They were a faceless army, and that was kinda the point. It was a clever use of coding to make two faceless armies seem meaningful, but it was just propaganda that Palpatine used to take over. One side is robots, designed to look like bugs or skeletons, obviously evil. On the other side, the clones who look and move like people. However, in truth, the clones are soulless and programmed, just like the droids. I've always been a sucker for poetic subtext, and it was one of my favorite things about the prequels. It highlighted Palpatine and just how far reaching his puppeteering went. But that's all gone now. 08 was good, there's a reason it's beloved by the fanbase, but 03 really just has a certain magic to it that I never felt 08 captured. Maybe it's my own nostalgia, but 08 just never comes close to me.
@Cole Pratt I'm not sure you read the whole comment. Firstly, I wouldn't call it a "lame art style", it's Tartakovski. He's an animation legend, and this is no exception. Visuals matter, that's why it's put in a visual medium, and 03 simply does it better. Second, I also highlighted the streamlined viewing experience. 08 got a bit all over the place, it wasnt just long, but it would abruptly cut a story only to come back to it a season later. It was jumbled. Having a shorter, streamlined viewing experience is simply my preference. And thirdly, the clones. I detailed this in my previous comment.
@Cole Pratt Once again, youre acting like the art is my only argument. Look, I'm not saying 08 was bad. I like the 08 show, I acknowledge it did many things better than 03, but I just personally prefer 03. You can disagree, that's cool. I prefer 2d animation, streamlined storytelling, and more visual storytelling, which are areas that 03 excels in. If you don't, whatever. You don't need to be a dick about it.
while 2d animation is timeless, i don't agree with your "clones should not be characters," thing, clones are people, they suffered too, they are not 'human droids,' they still have minds while the kaminoans messed with there minds to make them think l less freely, they are still human, the clones may share one face, but they all are human in the end, they all still think, so i don't agree with your faceless and soulless army.
If I was to recommend a watch/read list for clone was. It would be select stories from the 2008 series, mainly ones the mythology of the force. But some others as well. The entire 2003 series The republic commando books The entire dark horse comics run Did I miss anything?
From 5:55 to 6:42 is my artwork. If you like it, you should see my Instagram @bossky_bossk; I have a bunch of artwork from Apex, DC, Marvel, and many others. I try to post twice a week, and I'm helping Thor with his version of the new trilogy.
Let’s be honest, the 2008 series would have been better off as the antithesis of Star Wars Republic, like say “Star Wars Confederacy.” And I believe that 2003 reigns supreme in continuity, as 2008 version really didn’t gravitate much towards the audience that follows it. In fact, I believe that Anakin knighting in 2003 version is far better done, and I think that it ties in nicely for Revenge of the Sith. Heck, I think that the pairup of Anakin and Padmé is better written here too. With 2008, Ahsoka Tano should have a character journey that does not impede with Anakin’s and her master should be someone else, and if the concept art for 5 characters means anything, the Twi’lek guy who in my opinion, screams Jedi Master, should be made as Ahsoka’s master as Plo Koon would just be her informant similar to Qui-Gon Jinn becoming Anakin’s informant.
Both they are canon for me just cause of a couple reasons! First: Anakin was never showed turning into a Jedi knight in the 08 series! Second: mixing both you get a Perfect character development with Anakin, at first being a pre-potent padwan and than becoming both an amazing jedi and master, and a good friend!
The claim that the ‘03 CW lacks story is just like when critics of Mad Max: Fury Road said there wasn’t any story. They’re both pure cinema, meaning that fight with Anakin and Ventress had more character development than any line of dialogue could have offered. Images speak a thousand words after all.
> Images speak a thousand words after all. It's strange people are perfectly accepting of movies and TV shows but comics & manga are still seen as childish by the general populace compared to regular novels.
I grew up during the 90's and I watched the Clone Wars 2003 series on Cartoon Network. I loved the show, and its storyline matched more in line with the connection between Episode 2 and Episode 3. However, I never understood why Clone Wars 2003 episodes were only 5 minutes long. I strongly believe that's one of the main reasons why we never got to see a volume 3 during 2004, and volume 2 ended with Anakin and Obi-Wan heading off into space to rescue Palpatine where Revenge of the Sith begins in 2005. The fans know that The Clone Wars 2008 and TV series, was always about Ahsoka and her journey to become a Jedi Knight, by being trained by Anakin. Plus, we got to see Qui-Gon again as a force ghost, Obi-Wan without a beard for one episode, and the shocking return of Darth Maul wanting revenge for his defeat at the end of The Phantom Menace.
The three things I hated about the new clone wars were that force users were weaker in the series, general grevious was nerfed to be as weak to be taken on my Padawan, and they made count dooku a 2d villain, instead of the gentleman we saw in episode II and III
I love both 2003 and 2008 versions of the clone wars. My only and biggest complaint is how the 08 clone wars treated Grievous he was so terrifying, badass and tragic (his Legends backstory is better than his canon backstory) in the 03 clone wars. The 03 clone wars also had Durge he looks really cool and he’s a badass.
Besides Grievous, I honestly think the 2008 series is the easy winner. It actually has character arcs and long running stories, as well as actually showing the brutality of war. 2003 obviously had its violence, but we always saw it from the perspective of war heroes like the Jedi. I like a boots on the ground view now and then. And I say all of this as someone who adores both versions.
The 2003 Tartakovsky version is far better, in my personal opinion. The animation is amazing, the battles are large-scale, the clones are badass, Anakin is like in the movies and the story ties in better with the movies. TCW retconned a lot of the original EU stuff, made Grievous pathetic and added the stupid inhibitor chips, I just can't overlook those things as someone who grew up with the prequels, the EU and the 2003 mini series.
I always liked both, but I watched 03 first, as a kid, and when I grew older I was it fix some of the plot holes in the movies from now they got to episode 2 to 3.it didn't explain all of it, but when you mixed it with the 08 version, where it ended before it could get to explain how the chancellor got kidnapped and why there was a lot of fighting being done over Coruscant, a lot of things get settled. Something I liked are the droids reactions in both series, always when they react to something about to explode, or something similair, since it brings character to them. 03 brings the best versions of Grevios, Count Dooko, some of the clone comanders, made windu, Ventress, Anikan. The 08 version expands on it, making some of it realistic and expanding on The backstories of the characters, and adding more, and giving life to the clones, which was one of my favorite things they brought from the 03 verion.
Even Dave Floni repescts both clone wars. Floni has continue to make references to the 2003 series. The first one was that the first half of the 2003 is technically Canon. Becuase Anakin starts off as a Jedi Knight. So you can assume the events of Anakin being a knighted happened in Canon. Obiwan references the 2003 battle of Coruscant in season 7.
Tartakovsky all the way. There are so many reasons(opinions) why that series is better. Grievous is horrifyingly awesome! The action is just amazing and the fights are incredible! And I love how it ends right as episode 3 starts. We even get to see the battle on Coruscant on the ground! Mace's machine gun punches, and yoda pulling a starkiller n thowing giant spaceships around. Ya that shit was incredibly amazing! Edit: ok that was a very damn good point. I absolutely fucking LOVED how the 08 version treated the clones and personalised them. Still to this day, 99 just might be my all time favorite clone! Edit edit: ok so ima just say for me, in my head canon, between the episodes of the 08 series, the events of the 03 version take place. That way its all canon to me!
The animation I prefer in the 2003 one but not by much... (I also grew up with that one as well.) But otherwise it's like comparing FMA to FMA brotherhood. Overall the characters are done better in the current version. It's just given more time to flesh out everything and REALLY sell it to you. I dont think it's fair.
Technically I don’t think we lost the 03 Grevious. He was just always up against characters who had to make it to episode 3. When he was up against characters without plot armor, well they didn’t survive.
2003 was better in terms of characterization of the principal characters and story. 2003 had the best version of Anakin by a mile; it was the perfect combination of Hayden Christensen's version of the character combined with the mannerisms of the original Darth Vader. It also depicted Anakin's gradual turn to the Dark Side better. I still watch Anakin's fight in the original series with Asajj Ventress over and over because it felt like watching a young Vader more than even the films. The animation in the current Clone Wars really took it to another level in recent seasons, especially this one. The current clone Wars series showed the war on a grander scale, but 2003 felt more personal and more true to Star Wars for me.
While 3D Clone Wars had more screen time to flesh out the Star Wars galaxy, character-wise and action-wise, especially in the case of G. Grievous, 2D Clone Wars > 3D Clone Wars thus far.
I didn't like Grievous in the 03 series. He was extremely OP I mean defeating 8 Jedi at once 3 of which were Jedi masters I mean that's just ridiculous. You could argue that Grievous in the 08 series wasn't intimidating because he got captured by Gungans or because he was always on the run, but Grievous shouldn't be able to take on a whole army and come out on top not to mention Tarpals sacrificed himself to badly injure Grievous the entire situation was believable. Gungans get a bad rep because of Jar Jar when they are actually a decent fighting force. Grievous also had some legitimately intimidating moments in the 08 series. The 08 Grievous more closely resembles the version we saw in ROTS. I think finding a good balance between being an intimidating killing machine and being a classic villain that runs away when they're defeated is the best route which I think the 08 version balanced pretty well. Maybe there should've been more intimidating moments from Grievous but the version we got in the 08 series is just all around better and more believable imo. The 03 version was extremely ridiculous because of how over exaggerated everything was (which is probably part of the appeal for some people). It makes the entire series less believable especially when it's connected to movies that feel way more grounded. Some of the visuals may be cool, but the 08 series beats the 03 version in that too. Also in terms of actual substance and actual character development the 08 version wins by a long shot. The 03 series had little to no substance and character development. I will admit that there was plenty of filler in the 08 clone wars series, but the good moments are enough to beat the 03 version. The good moments in the 08 series are more numerous than the entirety of the 03 series. Maybe if the 03 series was longer and it stayed consistently good throughout all of it I might reconsider this point, but that isn't the case.
@@wildboyz359 That's obviously not what I meant. He should still be able to take on jedi which he does because he has a collection of lightsabers, but he shouldn't be able to take on 8 jedi at once. Maybe 4 if they aren't all jedi masters. We see him take on jedi in the 08 series where he either wins or he's fighting Kenobi which they have an ongoing rivalry.
So, I disagree with a lot of what you said. You made good points, but having Grievous as the killing machine he was was part of the appeal for me. The design and over exaggeration was something I enjoyed and still enjoy. I like it because his tech makes him fast enough to dodge Jedi and his ability to strike fear threw them off their balance. I think that I do agree that there needs to be a limit to how many Jedi masters he can fight off, but it was always fun to watch as a kid, so that's what I was looking for. So now that I'm older and looking for it to make sense, I think that there needs to be a balance between 03 and 08, even if I'd personally prefer closer to 03. Your comment was insightful though, and I'm curious to go back and watch Grievous' episodes to see if my opinion changes at all. I've not heard many people say they dislike the 03, so it was an interesting read.
@@karn2923 Thank you, I really appreciate your comment. There's really no right or wrong answer here it's all kind of based off what you enjoy. I don't like the over exaggeration because it makes it seem less grounded, but I do understand how that's part of the appeal for a lot of people. I still think Grievous should be a killing machine, but being able to take on 8 jedi is excessive imo. It's clear in the 08 series that Grievous is still a killing machine because he still has his large collection of lightsabers now granted we only see a few instances where he actually kills or beats a jedi in the show, but that's because most of his confrontations are with Obi-Wan since he is one of the main characters of the show and Grievous isn't going to kill Obi-Wan obviously because we all know how their rivalry ends. I think the 08 series strikes a better balance between the killing machine and the cowardly villain than the 03 show because there really isn't much of a balance because as I've stated he's OP. Now granted the balance isn't perfect in the 08 series and it should probably have more moments of Grievous being a killing machine, but I still think it's better because at least there is a balance. Dislike might've been too strong of a word. I can see its worth, but the show just doesn't offer me much because I want those really in depth character moments and I want there to be substance to a story which I think the 08 series delivers on way more, and as far as the visuals go, like I've said everything is just so overly exaggerated which makes it feel less grounded and realistic especially when all the movies feel pretty grounded in terms of action and visuals which just makes the action less appealing. The action in the 08 series is more grounded and realistic which makes it more appealing to me.
Your entire argument falls apart in the beginning. It's clear you don't remember much about it, or didn't watch it and are talking out of your ass. Those Jedi Grievous are fucking up? Their already injured, not a single one of them is at their best during that fight.
the 08 version is supposed to take place in the middle of the montage in the 03 version, but it has General Grievous with his throat damaged, when we see it get like that at the very end of the 03 version , so the 08 version of him doesn't make sense, he would only have the throat damage given to him by Mace Windu at the very beginning of Episode III the Revenge of the Sith
Apologies again if the audio is a bit off, I'll get it sorted soon enough. Here are links to the channels mentioned at the end of the video:
Comical Cheese "Star Wars Thriller": ua-cam.com/video/LFaMh_e3Jj4/v-deo.html&feature=emb_logo
The Dresden Files Podcast: ua-cam.com/channels/_3hlATGlv_IHFWVINPjrSw.html
To be honest you do speak slowly. Not dumb. Just slow. I watch at 1.25x.
The audio sounded fine. There was no difference between the audio here and the audio in your other videos.
Albert Jackinson Thanks for the feedback. Maybe it's just all in my head...
I didn’t notice any inconsistency with the volume, but aye I’m hyped for your sequel remake Thor, hope it’s so far so good! 🤟
Both
Grievous in '03: formidable foe and genuine threat to the Jedi. Grievous in '08: "I would have gotten away with it too, if it hadn't been for you pesky clones!"
Olorin8977 * grievous when he fights Ashoka and the younglings on Florrum * : “if it weren’t for you meddling kids!” 😂😂👌 love the scooby doo reference
Grievous in ‘08: “I would have gotten away with it too, if it hadn’t been for you meddling Gungans!”
Lol - underrated comment 😂.
03' general grievous even tanked a rocket to the face.
He was snidely whiplash with lung cancer lmao
To be honest, I liked both versions of the clone wars. They both had their own ways of showing how the clone wars transpired, between Attack of the Clones and Revenge of the Sith in various aspects.
Agree sorta. Much respect for the 2003 version but I just couldn't enjoy it because I always felt sick whenever watching it. Not really anything I can do
It's a close call but I'd say the STORY was better in the 2007 series but the lore and action was better in the 2003 series.
@@MaxRamos8 it's not the shows fault you feel sick all the time
@@MaxRamos8 you get sick when you watch cartoons?!?
@@emberfist8347 Well I'm sorry but the way the Siege of the Chancellor was presented in 2003 is far better and more cohesive than the 'canon' version now on Disney+. Grievous was so much and much more of a Jedi threat in 2003, Dooku was much more of Sith Lord. And I could go on and on but like I said they both have advantages and disadvantages of course.
Actually, Anakin and Obi-Wan's interactions in the 2003 series was more in line with both Episodes II and III. Volume 1 leans towards Episode II while Volume 2 leans towards Episode III.
While TCW never stops feeling like "Diet ROTS"
I don't know, I still feel like even volume two is more in line with AotC Anakin, though you can certainly see a progression towards RotS Anakin.
Yea especially when it’s made clear that clones were not really important to the Jedi. It helps enforce what we see with Oddball in ROTS. There hardly has been that connection with Jedi and clones, it’s not saying that there weren’t any, but at least in the two films we see a careless group of knights giving no importance to the ethics of sentient clones only caring for man power.
100% agree. I think people forget some moments in Episode III mirror his behavior in AoTC.
But then again I’m biased because it’s way more mature, felt epic, and had better writing.
@@thorskywalker I don't feel that way at all. I was actually referring to the dynamic between Obi-Wan and Anakin. In Episode II, Obi-Wan is judgmental towards Anakin and the latter is arrogant and impulsive. These are the dominant traits in Anakin and Obi-Wan during Volume 1. But in Volume 2, we see how the war has allowed the two to bond as actual friends rather than just teacher and student. Obi-Wan treats Anakin as an equal and Anakin has become more mature and in line with the Anakin we see in Episode III.
Star Wars fan: “I like both.”
Fandom: “So you have chosen death.”
Star Wars fan: If you strike me down, I shall become more powerful than you can possibly imagine 😎
They both subjectively suck. The original trilogy is subjectively better than the prequels or clone wars.
@@blackRXrider So it sucks because the OT is better? That's some weird reasoning...
Kazuma Neko eh odd opinion. I like the western anime inspired look of the 2D show...
@@blackRXrider that does indeed sound like your average OT purist
Even though the 2003 clone wars was made non canon, I still consider some parts, like General Grievous intro and Anakin's knighting is part of the saga
I think it still fits?
@@billygoat9666 for me, anything that fits into canon, is canon.
starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Battle_of_Hypori
It doesn't mention Grievous, but it's obvious reference to 2003 battle
As a side miniseries it did a far better job at consistency and 'fot' than the Disney sequel trilogy.
I like the 03 version of the clone wars. It leaves more details open and fits in better with the EU. Not to mention it's much easier to watch in chronological order.
I think we can enjoy both, but I think TCW should be the canon Story for the clone wars and Multi-media should be The legends story
@@loganberlew3191yeah I agree for the old canon, 2003 CWs and for the new canon, 2008 CWs
Better question, which is worse? Star Wars Resistance or Star Wars Forces of Destiny?
I would say Resistance, that show was unwatchable
Forces of Destiny wasn't unwatchable, it was just pointless
Did anyone actually watch Forces of Destiny though? I planned to but completely forgot about it until now. 🤷
*We don't do that here...
I actually forgot that there were more series than Clone Wars, The Clone Wars and Rebels. What are those two about?
Forces of Destiny. It was barely animation.
2003 does so much, in so little time. It's one of the best things Star Wars has going for it.
2003 was smack dab in the middle of a golden age for Star Wars I really am lucky to have experienced it as a kid.
I do hope we get a new era of Star Wars games for next Gen if EA can learn from Fallen order’s success.
Is fallen order actually that good
@TexasRed 01 It is, but EA won’t learn. Don’t hold any hope for another good SW video game; they’ve had ample time to do well with the license and failed. Honestly the only way to return to something remotely similar to the past would be Lucasfilm removing the exclusive license from EA.
Tuckers Baby ahhh
@TexasRed 01 But like said, do yourself and pick up Fallen Order already. The combat is so on point and the environments are a blast to explore.
'08 still has moments where grievous is actually intimidating. For instance when obiwan's ship is boarded before he can help ahsoka when she's in trouble or something I don't remember from that ark besides this bit where grievous is mercilessly hacking and slashing through the 212th and obiwan ends up needing to blow up his own ship and run away switching the roles between obi and grievous
Yeah. Grievous wasn’t a very serious character in the first few seasons but in the later seasons, he was treated with more respect and is more of a threat.
@@datguy3581
*laughs in gungan*
bluehero96 Grievous is no match for bombad booma
@@bluehero-96 u left out army
DatGuy ehhh idk about respect -just compare fetal position Grievous getting shot at by Slave I in TCW to “Shoot him down, shoot HIM DOWN” Grievous in 2003 CW.
I personally consider both to be canon, they both tell parts of a whole grand story.
100%. Both show important parts that we don't see in the other show and it's mostly consistent.
Danny M especially since there is a theory that it’s Republic propaganda told by Admiral Yularen.
@@night6724 I prefer just considering both shows completely canon. I just overlook the tiny inconsistencies in 03 as it being an overdramatisation of canon events.
@@kylehill9121 How is anakin being knighted at the beginning of the Clone wars vs being Knighted near the end a 'tiny inconsistency'.
Me tio
2003 easily takes my heart and nostalgia. I just love how flashy it is and how amazing it makes grievous look, he looks like a monstrosity of a Jedi killer. Even the clones look more professional as skilled
the animation looks like hentai
Fake Sense one thing I really appreciated about the 2003 version was how competent the clone were, at least the arcs. Everyone was overpowered which in my opinion wasn’t great but the clones just had that professionalism to them that the 2008 versions didn’t have. I wish we could combine the competency and personality of the two versions into one.
Baby Blue agreed
@@punctuationman334 apart from how so many in the 03 show died so easily, I can see what you mean, though the 2008 show is more grounded in a sense to the clones won't be nearly as ridiculously OP as the 03 as that series had more exaggerated epicness to it.
2003 is much closer to the spirit of the movies. Many people will say that TCW is better than the movies but those people should just go back to playing CoD and watching How I met your Mother.
When 2008 scores it really scores but when it misses it really misses. Even in this final season better believe I will be skipping the Martez sister episodes even though I love Elizabeth Rodriguez.
Also, one thing 2003 didn’t do was rewrite canon.
Wait, how did 2008 rewrite canon?
I’d say rewrite canon is a bit harsh, it has added to it.
Yeah, that's the only real reason 2008 gives me an extremely bad taste in my mouth, because it got rid of 30+ years of content, what they did to some of the characters is just nasty (looking at you, Grievous)
@@Bighomie39 ua-cam.com/video/n8a0gaa0olU/v-deo.html
@@Bighomie39 By essentially destroying existing canon. Someone linked a video that perfectly explains everything, watch that video.
I had to vote for equally. 2003 was what I imagined the Clone Wars would be like chaotic with villains being horrifying, Durge, Grevious and Asajj Ventress mowing down clones and the droids aren't dumb. While the heros were just as heroic as they possibly can, Shaak Ti stealing the show each time she shows up.
2008 is great but it really gets going in season 3 and didn't drag me fully in till the Umbara Arc.
Both have their ups and downs but I have enjoyed both, I can't choose which is better. It isn't as cut and dry like the movies.
I somewhat agree with you. However it should be noted that a lot of the concepts from the 08' Clone Wars came for the 2003 version...
Yes indeed. Mistakes I think they made:
1. Grievous encountering Obi Wan nearly every time he engages in battle. "And I would have gotten away with it, if it wasn't for that meddling Kenobi!"
2. Dooku meeting Anakin every other week, significantly reducing the impact of ROTS.
3. The Chip nonsense. This completely ruins the gravitas and brilliance as well as tragedy of Order 66 and the fall of the Jedi. It's a brilliant evil plan and legal executive order that makes it incredibly powerful in ROTS. The chip nonsense is unnecessary and does not conform to the movie canon.
4. Individualising TOO MANY clones. The clone troopers should only be as good as their commanders. They obey any order without question. They are shown to be Clone Stormtroopers once the "moral" Jedi are done away with. I can understand some Clone Commandos being grown and bred differently and a few ARCs like Rex. But the entire army in the show seems to be made of individuals with personalities and ideas who often disobey orders and are insubordinate.
5. THE CIS CONSTANTLY LOSING. The show makes it feel like the Republic didn't even need the Clone Army and the war could have been won 2 weeks after AOTC. The CIS should be a formidable organisation with massive public support thanks to impassioned speeches of Dooku and questions about corruption in the Republic. The Jedi should be struggling and taking loses, tragically being thrown onto the front lines by the Republic. Grievous should be besting some Jedi Masters to make him a threat. The CIS should be WINNING on merit through superior droid forces in some cases and better tactics to create a stalemate.
6. The show does not show us enough JEDI. This is the golden era of Jedi. We should be seeing LOTS of Jedi Masters like Master Di, Stass Allie, Shaak Ti, Adia Gallia, Kit Fisto, Mace Windu etc on the front line. Many of these Jedi should prove to be the shifting of the tide in battles whilst others should also tragically fall.
7. NOT ENOUGH AAYLA SECURA. I think that I don't need to elaborate why.
8. NOT ENOUGH AAYLA SECURA. This is so important it deserves an additional bullet point.
9. Not enough young Jedi of Anakin's age to compare how he acts versus others when it comes to romance, attachment and dealing with difficult battle situations.
10. Not showing us Labrynth of Evil (a great book) as a feature length show.
11. Not showing more Clone Commandos because they look cool.
12. Going off on tangents. Absolutely zero need to make the show about Maul. Is Darth Maul a great character? HELL YES. But a show about Maul should be set BEFORE TPM. And not in the Clone Wars. So many episodes went off to cover the Nightsisters, or children being stolen by Sidious. But this show should be about THE WAR. Conflicts and machinations.
13. NOT ENOUGH AAYLA SECURA DAMMIT.
The movies were never "cut and dry" watch them again bro
2003 all the way! It's the best thing ever done with Star Wars.
Same
Both, each one is similar yet different in their own ways yet equally brilliant. 2003 was just epic with the battle sequences, and the 2008-2020 version shows a more in-depth story of the characters. Can’t hate on either, they’re both great.
Yes indeed. Mistakes in the newer series I think they made:
1. Grievous encountering Obi Wan nearly every time he engages in battle. "And I would have gotten away with it, if it wasn't for that meddling Kenobi!"
2. Dooku meeting Anakin every other week, significantly reducing the impact of ROTS.
3. The Chip nonsense. This completely ruins the gravitas and brilliance as well as tragedy of Order 66 and the fall of the Jedi. It's a brilliant evil plan and legal executive order that makes it incredibly powerful in ROTS. The chip nonsense is unnecessary and does not conform to the movie canon.
4. Individualising TOO MANY clones. The clone troopers should only be as good as their commanders. They obey any order without question. They are shown to be Clone Stormtroopers once the "moral" Jedi are done away with. I can understand some Clone Commandos being grown and bred differently and a few ARCs like Rex. But the entire army in the show seems to be made of individuals with personalities and ideas who often disobey orders and are insubordinate.
5. THE CIS CONSTANTLY LOSING. The show makes it feel like the Republic didn't even need the Clone Army and the war could have been won 2 weeks after AOTC. The CIS should be a formidable organisation with massive public support thanks to impassioned speeches of Dooku and questions about corruption in the Republic. The Jedi should be struggling and taking loses, tragically being thrown onto the front lines by the Republic. Grievous should be besting some Jedi Masters to make him a threat. The CIS should be WINNING on merit through superior droid forces in some cases and better tactics to create a stalemate.
6. The show does not show us enough JEDI. This is the golden era of Jedi. We should be seeing LOTS of Jedi Masters like Master Di, Stass Allie, Shaak Ti, Adia Gallia, Kit Fisto, Mace Windu etc on the front line. Many of these Jedi should prove to be the shifting of the tide in battles whilst others should also tragically fall.
7. NOT ENOUGH AAYLA SECURA. I think that I don't need to elaborate why.
8. NOT ENOUGH AAYLA SECURA. This is so important it deserves an additional bullet point.
9. Not enough young Jedi of Anakin's age to compare how he acts versus others when it comes to romance, attachment and dealing with difficult battle situations.
10. Not showing us Labrynth of Evil (a great book) as a feature length show.
11. Not showing more Clone Commandos because they look cool.
12. Going off on tangents. Absolutely zero need to make the show about Maul. Is Darth Maul a great character? HELL YES. But a show about Maul should be set BEFORE TPM. And not in the Clone Wars. So many episodes went off to cover the Nightsisters, or children being stolen by Sidious. But this show should be about THE WAR. Conflicts and machinations.
13. NOT ENOUGH AAYLA SECURA DAMMIT.
2008 cw is trash and filled with retcons and contradictions. It's a legit parallel universe lmao.
Wrong
@@darkjediknight2923 And Ahsoka shouldn't exist
If you're only talking about the shows, then perhaps. But if we count the entirety of the CW Multimedia Project vs TCW, fuck no. CW is pathetically shallow and mostly serves for Filoni to play with his Star Wars ragdolls.
I do like how ventress was the one who gave Anakin his scar in the 2003 version, but I like both of them equally. No favoritism from me!
She still gave him it in Canon.
That's not really true. Anakins scar is shown first in the hero montage wich introduces his long haired appearance. They don't show where the scar comes from. Looking at the show you would assume that Ventress is dead by this point.
I think if any of your videos didn’t start with “Now” my head would explode
PS: The General Krell arc is legendary
Now I feel pressure to start every video with now...
(Not that I wasn't going to anyway)
Thor Skywalker do you overuse the word “now” irl as well? Also, when’s that sequel to The Lost Jedi coming out? Have you forgotten it? Because I sure as heck haven’t! Or has it been pushed aside in favor of that new sequel trilogy project of yours?
The funny thing is I don't think I overuse "now" in my day to day life. And, no, I certainly haven't forgotten about a sequel to The Lost Jedi. I absolutely will go back to finish that story at some point.
Thor Skywalker in other words, it’s a long way off😞 I am disappoint. But it is your thing, so... I suppose I’ll just have to wait.
That arc left me deeply disturbed while stroking my beard and gazing pensively.
Easily 2003, it was amazing, well thought out and it didn't screw with the continuity. Plus GRIEVOUS, I mean in 2003 he is a force of nature and impending doom.
Also it had the good sense not to bring Maul back needlessly eating screen time but ultimately doing nothing whatsoever of importance to the story.
SPOT ON. 2003 felt like a war. Mistakes I think they made in 2008:
1. Grievous encountering Obi Wan nearly every time he engages in battle. "And I would have gotten away with it, if it wasn't for that meddling Kenobi!"
2. Dooku meeting Anakin every other week, significantly reducing the impact of ROTS.
3. The Chip nonsense. This completely ruins the gravitas and brilliance as well as tragedy of Order 66 and the fall of the Jedi. It's a brilliant evil plan and legal executive order that makes it incredibly powerful in ROTS. The chip nonsense is unnecessary and does not conform to the movie canon.
4. Individualising TOO MANY clones. The clone troopers should only be as good as their commanders. They obey any order without question. They are shown to be Clone Stormtroopers once the "moral" Jedi are done away with. I can understand some Clone Commandos being grown and bred differently and a few ARCs like Rex. But the entire army in the show seems to be made of individuals with personalities and ideas who often disobey orders and are insubordinate.
5. THE CIS CONSTANTLY LOSING. The show makes it feel like the Republic didn't even need the Clone Army and the war could have been won 2 weeks after AOTC. The CIS should be a formidable organisation with massive public support thanks to impassioned speeches of Dooku and questions about corruption in the Republic. The Jedi should be struggling and taking loses, tragically being thrown onto the front lines by the Republic. Grievous should be besting some Jedi Masters to make him a threat. The CIS should be WINNING on merit through superior droid forces in some cases and better tactics to create a stalemate.
6. The show does not show us enough JEDI. This is the golden era of Jedi. We should be seeing LOTS of Jedi Masters like Master Di, Stass Allie, Shaak Ti, Adia Gallia, Kit Fisto, Mace Windu etc on the front line. Many of these Jedi should prove to be the shifting of the tide in battles whilst others should also tragically fall.
7. NOT ENOUGH AAYLA SECURA. I think that I don't need to elaborate why.
8. NOT ENOUGH AAYLA SECURA. This is so important it deserves an additional bullet point.
9. Not enough young Jedi of Anakin's age to compare how he acts versus others when it comes to romance, attachment and dealing with difficult battle situations.
10. Not showing us Labrynth of Evil (a great book) as a feature length show.
11. Not showing more Clone Commandos because they look cool.
12. Going off on tangents. Absolutely zero need to make the show about Maul. Is Darth Maul a great character? HELL YES. But a show about Maul should be set BEFORE TPM. And not in the Clone Wars. So many episodes went off to cover the Nightsisters, or children being stolen by Sidious. But this show should be about THE WAR. Conflicts and machinations.
13. NOT ENOUGH AAYLA SECURA DAMMIT.
@@darkjediknight2923 Exactly, the show certainly did nothing with all the potential for Grievous and Dooku to have legitimate reasons for what they were doing explored. Focusing on the war, the reasons for it and the failings of the Republic should have taken priority. The Order 66 Chip idea was indeed a terrible addition as having the original be a legal order smuggled into the bureaucracy of hundreds of orders for 'worst case' scenarios was exactly what made it viable in the lore. The entire nature of the CW was it preyed on the Jedi's past devotion to the Republic against an external threat, without ever realizing the real danger was IN the Republic itself. I also agree that most of the individualistic clones should be the Higher ranking ones bred for more autonomy and adaptation, the lower level ones had alterations specifically to their minds to be obedient to the Legal Authority-which was, Palpatine, that's what makes it so brilliant, by starting the war at all the Jedi already lost, arguably before that they were already losing, because Palpatine was democratically and duly elected. He was beloved by that time. By attacking Geonosis, the Jedi could be portrayed as the villains who started the war, gave the CIS the excuse to secede by war and later the fact that Dooku-a former Jedi led the CIS-could be used to frame the war as a Jedi plot to overthrow the Republic is sheer genius.
We should see the failings of the Jedi, the rampant corruption in the Senate, the brutality of the war and episodes dealing with Grievous, Dooku and the Separatist leaders backstories detailing why they are the way they are. how about exploring droid sentience? The fact that over time without memory wipes the droids genuinely DO develop a fear of death and a desire to live? That could put tons of new context into the B1s, Super battle Droids and even the Magnaguards that are often used as cannon fodder or jokes.
Instead in the 2008 show we got a bunch of side stories that didn't matter, villain decay and stereotypes.
@@grandadmiralzaarin4962 "You are strong and wise." I concur. Whilst there were some good stories, there were too many detours and unnecessary things. There was a lot of potential to go into depth about Grievous being revealed and him being seen as a massive threat/danger. We should have seen him take on multiple Jedi, including Masters, and best them. See him use superior tactics and have his droids, who sometimes have inferior numbers, completely outclass the Republic clone army. Dooku should have been the same charismatic leader of AOTC, advocating the cause of the CIS to systems and winning on merit. Instead they turned his esteemed character into a cartoonish villain. The CIS was meant to contain good in it - the ROTS opening says "There are heroes on both sides." Instead they made it pure evil, unnecessarily killing populations. We should have seen far more planets who were against the Republic and more native populations who were fighting alongside/commanding the droids against the Jedi led clones.
Oh god, the Order 66 chip idea was completely ABSURD. I totally agree it was unnecessary. No need for it. The Films (both AOTC and ROTS) explain everything perfectly and tell a brilliant story. The lore according to George Lucas (and various comics/books) was exactly what you described. Order 66 was a contingency order smuggled into the bureaucracy of the Republic, overlooked by the Jedi. Ultimately the Jedi Generals (and Jedi Council) oversaw the Army. But ultimately the highest point on the command chain was the Chancellor. Had the Jedi Council ousted Palpatine in a coup - through his removal from office, or execution (e.g. had Windu who bested Palpatine been allowed to kill him there and then), then the Jedi Council would have remained the highest executive authority. Would have been interesting to see a Jedi Junta enforce their will with the Army under their command! But yes, Palpatine had positioned himself superbly. An evil plan - but pure brilliance. This is something that the Jedi Council would have to give thunderous applause to. Palpatine makes the Jedi look evil, gives himself the justification to brand them as usurpers to the whole galaxy, and duly brands them enemies of the state. SUPERBLY PUT - the Jedi did not realise that the threat to the Republic (and themselves) came from within, not without. The enemy was hidden in plain sight. I think the book Labrynth of Evil brilliantly highlighted this and the search for Sidious. Would be great as a movie. I agree that the film explanation is perfect and makes Order 66 - with that moving music - all the more tragic. Seeing the Jedi Generals gunned down by their own troops - the Jedi being betrayed - is heart breaking. That scene with Mundi turning around to see the troopers line up like a firing squad, Aayla Secura surprised from behind and the fighter shot down with Kloon in it. That's tragedy. I agree that Palpatine was the legal leader. In theory, this was a coup by the Jedi. Of course it was moral, but it was illegal. The Senate was totally corrupt and although Palpatine has an ulterior motive to destroy the Jedi Order, he has got a point. He literally spells it out in TPM. I mean that was one hell of a manifesto as he lists the crimes of the corrupt Republic. You can tell he is sincere and is disgusted by the rot within. The Jedi had become complacent in their Ivory tower, unwittingly serving a corrupt government that cared not for the people. You can see Qui Gon conflicted seeing the Republic does not enforce the law on places like Tatooine and he is not empowered to help people. Yes that would be hilarious if they showed us droids becoming sentient. I mean given they went and randomly made virtually every single clone trooper an individual (which is not the case since they are meant to be effectively soldiers who obey any order and are only as good as their officers who give them), might as well have made the B1s hesitant. And they are ruthlessly killed by the "clones" despite pleading for their life. I agree on villain decay. Such wasted potential.
I also think that we needed to see Anakin and Obi Wan together more. They are meant to be a dynamic duo. Certainly should have seen Anakin attain knighthood. He also tends to speak out of his place too much. He isn't a General, he's a Jedi Knight and below Council members, yet sometimes he's giving the orders when other higher ranking people are present! Rank insubordination! It would have been great to see more Jedi Masters and Knights such as Master Di, Shaak Ti etc. Some win, and some fall. I think a great comic showed us a random Jedi Knight at a battle which they were losing. The Phase 1 clone troopers - the last squad - ask him what are his orders. The Jedi merely says "Die well." And that they do. That is what we should have seen. Not comical cartoon villains where the Republic always win and the CIS only wins by some evil plan that poisons the population or something. I would also personally have used the show as an opportunity to explore how other Jedi of Anakin's age - e.g. Aayla Secura - act. Both in terms of romantic attachment (imagine a citizen ruler of a world having the hots for her), Force skills and feelings about the war and Republic. It would have been nice to have the Jedi also wear robes more often. They all seem to have military uniforms on which doesn't match the films. In short, the show could have been so much more.
I wouldn't say the chip really does anything but give a more clear explanation.
@@fightingmedialounge519 we already had a clear explanation. They are genetically engineered for obedience and to follow the chain of command. Both of those make more sense than, magic chip make bad, especially when following CGI TCW plot the Jedi learn Dooku ordered the army, is Tyranus, had a Clone trooper shoot a Jedi before Order 66 so they know chips exist in an army literally created by someone they are at war with but just chose to ignore it. It makes far more sense for it to be a legal order-one of over a hundred- and worded in a way so that the Jedi themselves would see it as only applying if they turned as a whole against the REPUBLIC, which they took to mean the Order had fallen to the Dark Side. That's the brilliance of the old lore set up, the new chip not only makes it much less believable but directly flies in the face of the world building in their own universe.
I actually made four Clone Wars edits that try to tie in to the 2008 series. They arent perfect (especially the Epilogue since it was made before the Siege of Mandalore was annoinced) but they do their job as a prologue and epilogue to the 2008 series which was still cancelled at the time. I also fitted the Nelvaan episode as an event that happens during thes series! I'd loved if Thor would watch them and give his thoughts about these canon edits I made!
I like and respect both but I generally prefer the 2003 version because I'm a fan of the multimedia project
Going Obscure Hell yeah someone remembers the Multimedia project. It’s a shame the 2008 series shat all over it. :/
That’s why I like the 2003 series the 2008 series was good but it’s not as good as the Dark Horse Comics
The Star Wars Republic series by Dark Horse was truly an amazing series that came from that era
Yeah, but we're talking about the show here not the whole multimedia project
Multimedia Project>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>2008 Clone Wars
I love them both equally..
Can't give opinion yet since
Current CloneWars is still going..
No Matter What Version Of General Grevious,He's Still Shorter Than I Expected
I was expecting someone with your reputation to be a little D A N K E R
The 2003 is more art. I wish it still canon, cause its`s gorgeous.
It never was Canon.
@@darkwolf4434 false
Dark Wolf443 the story lines and characters were canon. The outlandish depiction of some of the characters were not.
the animation looks like hentai
@@jimmygee3219 The only thing that Lucas considered Canon were the movies and Tv-shows.
I like to think in my head canon that everything leading to and including Anakin's Knighting is canon. Also I hope Disney makes "The Lost Arcs" where they do the rest of the season 7 arcs and have like two Battle Of Coruscant episodes where that sexy new Grievous model just carves up Jedi (pretty much what we got in original Clone Wars).
I personally prefer the 2008 - 2020 Clone Wars series as it's the show I grew up with and it was what first introduced me to Star Wars
I like both for different reasons. Wish the first show would have had more episodes though.
Especially if they were as long as the later half. Going from an action short, to a 10 minute time slot really helped for pacing and character development.
I’d be happen for 5 episodes to be made, the 30th should be made as a finale.
I like both versions, 2003 has slight edge over the 2008 version to me.
@Lionard Kirsch Yes and people tend to underestimate it's power
@@omegaink5635 yes because its not considered canon
@@miserquemiguel2144 Well 1st off you ruined the joke. And second of all if it wasn't for the original clone wars the 08' one would be nothing... That's a fact.
@Rogue Fox Funny you’re here considering you quit Star Wars just the other day ago which I don’t believe.
@@omegaink5635 no, no, no. Quicker, easier, more seductive.
You should wait until the end of the siege of mandalore for the Rex poll
He’s an A for me anyway but some people might need to be further persuaded
You're not wrong that it might influence people, however he did win the vote. And since I love democracy and all...
Thor Skywalker oh wow you replied thanks
@@thorskywalker Do you have any plans to revisit Maul and Ahsoka in Battle of the heroes and villains after the Siege of Mandalore ends? The results might be a bit different.
Ondra Maceska That's a good question. Perhaps I'll try to do some sort of poll asking if The Siege of Mandalore Arc has changed your feelings towards any of the characters. Or something along those lines.
@@thorskywalker Ok, thanks for your answer!
I prefer 2008 version but 2003 to me is just as important, especially how it shows Anakin’s Duel with Ventress getting the scar and the Battle of Coruscant. Those are 2 things I wish were in 2008, as well as Grievous actually being good.
Star master 13 actually, he didn’t get the scar in that duel. That was left unexplained. They had a duel on Coruscant where he got the scar in the comics, though.
Darth Knightwing Phoenix You’re right. It was in a duel with Ventress but not the one on Yavin 4. I think it was on Coruscant and was from a comic book
Star master 13 it was.
I personally believe the tarkovsky version fits into the movies better tho i prefer the filoni clone wars as a show
2003 for me.
It's more respectful of canon, and it never had an episode that made me want to skip.
So you aren't a real star wars fan🤔🤔
@@adrianorafacho9706
Get out of here with that Simon Pegg asshole attitude.
yeah! some star wars fan yuo are, lowgun fire.
not skipping any of the glorious 2003 clone wars?
not enjoying the retcons and inconsistencies of 2008 tcw?
toxic fan. typical.
@@onvogmasaj
Oh, pardon me.
Who granted you people final authority on who or what makes a fan?
@@lowgunfire2671 adrianio rachafo ☝
The Title: Which version of Clone Wars is better?
Me: Yes
Your timing is excellent. I just finished watching all of the 2003 episodes.
To get them close in the timeline take the first 21 eps from 2003, put them before the 2008 series, then take the last 4 episode and place them before revenge of the Sith.
For me '2003 Clone Wars has some epic action sequences, but overall I enjoyed the characterization and depth found in the 2008 version
There strongest part of the prequels were their themes of war and failure, and the 03 series compliments this really well, showing much more of Anakin's struggle and anger that led to his fall, whereas in the 08 version, he becomes a totally different, much happier person for about four years before returning to his original character. I think in trying to "fix" him, they just made him and his relationships totally inconsistent. The Republic comics do a great job showing his arc correctly too, but Clone Wars is much more important to just downfall. The 08 show also spat in the face of something I'd like to see discussed on this channel, and that's Karen Traviss' Mandalorian culture. She wrote them a beautiful conlang and practical warrior culture, and TCW threw it right out the window. This wasn't a case of the new overwriting the old either. Season 2 and 501st came out the exact same year, plunging that part of the universe into continuity chaos that we still have trouble reconciling
Agree. Thanks for this
2003 Grievous is my favorite Star Wars character. PERIOD.
Oh my gosh my comment was in here!!!
Religious Otaku it’s like winning the lotto
Champ Styles feels like it
If you combined both series, it would be ultimate Star Wars
There was a massive rumor that said the the 08 was created to fill a massive time gape of 3 years of conflict between vol 1 ending with Anakin into a fresh knighthood and the final months the siege of the outer rim
@@captainfordo2938 exactly that's why I said there was the rumor but there are few nod to the older series. . .c
Besides it match perfectly with the novel for EP III revenge of the sith
2008 gave us Ahsoka, Rex, Fives, and tons of other good characters, as well as furthered developed on Obi-Wan, Maul, the Mandalorians, etc. It was also a big part of my childhood.
I’ma have to go with 2008.
I mean, TCW made Maul a literal monster of power and vengeance who travels the galaxy amassing an army of crime lords just to get revenge on Obi-Wan. And he ends up as my third favourite sith.
That is a lot more interesting and badass than being a random Sith with a cool lightsaber who comes in, kills Liam Neeson, gets his d**k cut off and dies. (I’m not including stories that describe who Maul was and only using the movies)
Wrong
I personally prefer the 2003 multimedia project, everyone talks about how the 2008 Clone Wars made the war seem more nuanced, but tbh most of that nuance is "oh the bad guys were pulling the strings and we were unaware, please forgive us,". Tbh the Republic comics are where the most nuance moments in the Clone Wars exist from the Jabiim Arc, to Show of Force, Yoda "Best Blades", "Schism" they give the conflict more nuance then TCW ever did, and show the Jedi as flawed individuals like Mace Windu and Yoda, imperfect generals and how the Jedi have lost their way for realistic reasons. One of my piss offs with TCW is how the butchered Bariss Offee from an adept healer in Legends to a murderer of Jedi, because she felt they lost their way and instead of leaving goes on a killing spree. The Visionaries comics made Grievous a sympathetic and tragic character and the Republic Commando books made Clones sympathetic without writing it into a corner. I think in my early 20s I loved TCW cause it was new, but looking back there are many arcs that are pointless or make little sense, I like the Young Boba Fett arc cause it shows Mace as a flawed Jedi unwilling to accept the damages he has done, and the Umbara Arc because it again showed a flawed Jedi, even though its cartoon villiany to me, there are other arcs of course, but after rewatching some it makes me realize that if you actually think about some of these arcs create more plot holes in the prequels, like the discovery of the inhibitor chip and they find out Dooku made the Clone Army? Hello? Any alarm bells going off? I also find it hard to believe that any of TCW's events really mesh well with the movies tbh, like the movies don't feel like Anakin ever had an apprentice or Maul came back, that is why I liked the Multimedia project, you felt characters like Alpha 17, Ventress (who wasn't used as much), Durge, A'Sharad Hett, Quinlan Voss etc were characters within the war and not necessary to the development of the movie characters and could stand out on their own like Hett or Vos. Just my two cents though, peace.
Storytelling of the 2003 multimedia project is far superior and actually aligns with the movies.
Love them both equally and consider both canon in my head. There's minor inconsistencies but overall if you count both, they fill in so much more than just each one alone. I feel like if I only considered one canon, I'd be missing so much. I do hope they make most of the events of 03 canon eventually. They've already started to.
You can watch both together.
2008 chose to omit a lot 2003 had already covered:
- Character introductions for Grievous & Ventress
- How Anakin got his scar
- The battle of coruscant
I also like the scene in the 03 version when Dooku is watching a Mortal Kombat tournament and someone sneaks up on him
Same.😄 That was Ventris
2003 uses its time a hell of a lot better. For all the bloat in the 2008 series they never actually take the time to get into the most important aspects like Anakin and Obi Wan’s relationship. I like a mix of both series but it I had to pick one I’d pick 2003. Just serves as connective tissue a lot better without any Maul nostalgia pandering and eye rolling mandalore plots.
You are completely correct, I agree.
Not really. Eh they do actually, quite a bit in fact we see that. It really doesn't tbh...especially after season 7 of TCW. Maul isn't nostalgia pandering it's expanding on the character and the mandalore plots weren't eye rolling.
@@aspiknf Eh...I don't as they aren't really correct.
Imagine if they had Lord Vader causing havoc with the 03 clone wars animations
martin derabuni that would be amazing
OH SHIT! WE NEED TO SEE THAT!
I grew up with the prequels, OT, and the '08 series as "my Star Wars". I had seen the last two chapters (24 and 25 I believe) of the '03 series and I, prior to the Siege of Mandalore, considered that to be the official story of how the Clone Wars ended. Suffice to say, I didn't give the '03 series much of a chance until recently when I heard EU-fans constantly try and push me into watching it. A lot of them would claim it was so much better than the new series. And so I did.
And my thoughts? Eh, it was nice. Don't get me wrong, I can see why people love the action sequences. They're beautifully made and certainly show off Tartakovsky's creative ability. Watching Windu punch through a bunch of droids, Yoda tossing an entire legion of droids off a ledge, and that Grievous introduction was amazing to watch. But all that action can't make up for the emotional depth of some of the '08 series greatest arcs. Not to mention Maul steals the show any time he's on-screen. I still want to see his duel with Grievous animated someday. I think it really does come down to personal preference. I liked the action from the Tartakovsky's and I liked the emotional weight of the Filoni series.
Although, I AM a bit tired of hearing everyone who praises the '03 series parrot the "But much Grievous" argument as if it's the one thing that proves why everything in the 2008 series is bad. Yeah, Grievous was nerfed at times in the 2008 series. Sure. That doesn't mean the whole series is bad though. You can always skip the episodes/arcs you don't like. It's an anthology series for a reason.
Reasons why the 2003 Clone Wars was the best Clone Wars series:
1. It weaves better in with the movies.
2. Anakin feels like Anakin is supposed to be.
3. There's no inhibitor chip that makes the clones execute Order 66.
4. The CIS is a legitimate threat.
5. Anakin doesn't have an apprentice (I don't mind Ahsoka as a character, I just don't like the idea of Anakin having an apprentice).
6. No rivalry between Grievous and Obi-Wan or Dooku and Anakin.
7. Anakin's character arc is smoother.
8. The action sequences are more creative and with more weight.
9. The storytelling is more subtle and in chronological order.
10. The Ghost Hand arc.
Honorable mentions:
- We get to see the night Luke and Leia are conceived.
- Shaggy from Scooby-Doo.
This coupled with the comics, creates a far superior continuity
What about the ARC Theme?
The inhibitor chip is so bullshit. In EP2 was said "The Clones follow every Order". You don't need to know more.
And 2003 Clone Wars is so hard more canon as the "The Clone Wars"
@@sven6809 The only thing that might be questioned in CW is how exaggerated force powers and ship battles are. But I believe that's due to the art style moreso than to be taken literally.
@@sven6809 Plus, the clones were never loyal to the Jedi in the first place. They just saw them as their superior officers whom they had to cooperate with to save the Republic. It's also more realistic/believable to have Order 66 a publicly known contingency order that would be put in motion in the event that the Jedi would betray the Republic. Appo even said in Episode III that the Jedi were rebelling against the government.
And if Stormtroopers follow every order without question, why shouldn't clones do the same? Heck, many clones were even more than happy to kill the Jedi because of how the Jedi treat them as nothing but cannon fodder, which also fits with how arrogant and sanctimonious the Jedi Order has become. Of course, Anakin treated them with respect because he knows what it's like to be a slave.
Chapters 1 to 21 of the 2003 series are still a really good prologue to the 2008 series, it covers several major events that the new canon has still failed to cover: Anakin’s knighting, Anakin’s first encounter with Asajj and Grievous’ epic entry into the war.
The Ithorian Jedi from the 2003-05 series is mentioned in the updated canon lightsaber book, in which it describes his lightsaber being one of the four in Grievous’ possession.
And at least the 2003 series was structured chronologically; the 2008 series is all in the place in the first three seasons.
Everybody who was to young or not even born to see the 2003 version back in the day will say TCW 2008, and everybody who saw CW 2003 during their childhood/adolescence will say CW.
Nope, I saw most of the 2003 shorts on tv when it first aired as a kid and I still vastly prefer 2008 (which is my favourite cartoon of all time)
I'll always take quality over quantity.
Yeah 100% agree, even though the 2008 show has well over a hundred episodes which could put it under risk of dragging on, you just don't feel it with how great the arcs and most of the episodes are, whilst the 2003 show, even though it's only a couple of hours total, it really does drag and gets boring and unengaging.
So 2008
@@protector_of_the_realms I think you misunderstood my comment. I meant I prefer the shortness and overall better quality of 2003 Clone Wars over the long and overly drawn out 2008 TCW. 03 Clone Wars was short and sweet, It told what needed to be told and that was it. It didn't drag on for endless amounts of Seasons with numerous filler like TCW does.
@@adamhogan5442 No, 03 over 08
@@anthonymendez5768 I guessed that was what you actually meant, I was just sorta trolling a bit whilst getting my own sentiments across in a hopefully funny way. lol But your original statement doesn't by default suggest you liked a specific show over another, it was a saying that could actually be applied either way depending upon one's interpretation. Everyone takes quality over quantity, especially in the realm of visual media, and to me through my application and interpretation that means the 2008 show is better as I personally think it's better made with more substance and meaning, telling engaging stories whilst overcoming the detriment of an ongoing long running show, hence "quality" overcoming "quantity" which makes it better in my opinion
This is Darth Bullsith of the Galactic Notification Empire! All wings, report in!
Bullsith, standing by!
Brown Leader, Standing By.
Red Two, standing by!
First off, no Star Wars show or movie is perfect. Each one has flaws or things we don't like, some are better than others.
Having said that, the 2008 series fleshed the years long Clone Wars into a years long event, and that's exactly what should have happened. It wasn't just a few battles; it was a galaxy wide major war. It's what we older fans always wished we could have seen way back in the late 70s and into the 80s! And the 2008 series gave us some great characters and stories.
Anyone saying 2008 Anakin was just too nice, your memory is failing you, or you never actually watched the series. Yes he had many moments of being truly good and humane, because he was good and humane! He was a freaking Jedi! He didn't become a monster until later on. But he also had many moments where he was impatient or went rogue, and where he was scary and dangerous. So he was consistent with who he was as the character we always understood him to be.
I think a cool poll could be to ask how people got into or introduced to Star Wars. like for me it was Lego Star Wars Complete saga, 2008 and 2003 clone wars. I'd be interested too see if anyone was drawn in by the sequels or rebels.
2023 edit: Also now that I’ve come back to this video, I gotta say while I love 08 clone wars, the way Filoni completely ran over and disregarded the Clone Wars multimedia project was a huge misstep and mistake. He deserves criticism for that.
At least we have a post ex facto solution: 08 clone wars can be moved exclusively to Disney canon, and leave legends clone wars free of continuity errors. Only if Disney would do that…
And lol, looking back I can’t believe I wrote all of that 😂. Thanks for the feature!
Interesting. I got introduced to Star Wars with A New Hope by my father when I was like 3 or 4 years
Personally, I prefer the 08 version for its expansion of the galaxy and exploration of its characters. There are some bad arcs but the nice thing about the show is you can skip weaker arcs. The viewing experience isn’t hurt when you cut out the Jar Jar episodes and the droid episodes and the Trace/Rafa episodes.
Is this really a argument?
Clone wars is the best one.
Both of them are equally well done, they just portray it differently.
@Cole Pratt no it doesn't, TCW has more filler than a long running shounen anime and butchers most of the characters.
RIP, Grevious, Mandolorians, Quinlan Vos, Bariss, Arc Troopers, Clone Commandos, and may more.
I’ll give you Grevious, it didn’t do his character justice compared to the 2003 version but the rest I vehemently disagree with. If it wasn’t for TWC we wouldn’t have ever gotten character like Ahsoka or Rez and the pivotal role they played in Anakins life when he descended into darkness and finally became Vader
Both series are amazing. At the very least I wish the 2008 series would have adapted a few key points from the 2003 series like Ventress' introduction, Grievous' introduction, Anakin's knighting and the Battle of Coruscant.
They're both great. The 2003 series was more focused on set peices and fast pased battles. The 2008 series was more focused on story and character. Both are important because it's really the first time SW was on TV. 2003 influenced the 08 series. I mean we just got a shak ti reference from the 03 series in the latest episode in season 7, also Ventress being Dooku's apprentice, jedi wearing clone armor etc. They are both great.
Having said that, the 03 series fits in the movies better. Some retcons have been done in the 08 series im not a big fan of. Dooku vs Anakin and Obi wan in Sith feels like the first time they have seen each other since AOTC, Grievous telling Obi wan he was trained by dooku, shouldnt he know that already? Anakin feels more like his film counterpart than 08 anakin. But I still love them both faults and all.
2003 and the whole Multimedia Project as a whole by a pretty significant margin. TCW and its tie-ins are decent overall, but the original Multimedia Project just can't be beat.
The prequels definitely pulled off transmedia storytelling better than the Matrix trilogy.
For me - Clone Wars Vol. 1&2 are better. In Germany is Vol. 1 with a Age rating of 16.
Why would it have a age rating of 16 in Germany?
In Poland 2008 Clone Wars had a age rating of 12 but I cannot find out about our age rating for 2003.
@@modmaker7617 I talk about Clone Wars from 2003... Google "Clone Wars Vol. 1 DVD Box Deutsch" and u can see the Age rating.
@@sven6809
No I believe you that Clone Wars 2003 Vol 1 in Germany is a 16 but I just believe it is weird that in my country Poland Clone Wars 2008 movie & series is a 12 but I cannot find the Polish age rating for the 2003 version. In Poland age ratings aren't on box sets but on display while watching TV it is a weird system. In Poland age ratings are only for TV and not for the cinema which is wrong IMO but that is how it is.
It doesn't make sense for it being a 16. I give it like a PG or some equivalent to that.
@Lionard Kirsch Wahrscheinlich. Damals war die FSK nicht so locker wie heute.
@@modmaker7617 lul ok
I like both shows, I grew up with the 2003 and the 2008 clone wars was in my middle school and high school years. I think the 2003 show does a good job of developing Anakin’s character, Setting up revenge of the sith, and General Grievous’s portrayal. With the 2008 clone wars, they go more in depth with the characters and explore more than the main movie characters. I feel like the 2008 clone Wars got to see more of stuff that went on in the galaxy and in 2003 clone wars you saw an overview of the war. Both flesh out the prequel era and help people see the prequels in new light.
I actually think TCW did a much better job of developing Anakin and his fall to darkness and truly shows us what happens when a Jedi forms attachments
Why not both? I love the animation and action of the original, but I love the story and characters of the newer series. They’re both great for different reasons.
03 Clone Wars easily. The reason? When people recommend the 08 show, they always say “oh well it really gets good after the first two seasons.” Only the later parts are good. The entirety of the 03 show is good, and what’s more is that the entire show is about 2 hours long making it perfectly comfortable to watch when you watch the whole saga, it just becomes it’s own movie between 2 and 3. And I would be remiss to not mention 03 Grievous is what made me fall in love with my still favorite SW character, and that Captain Fordo and the Muunilist 10 are more badass than any clones Filoni and company gave ya.
Though I loved it as a kid I really don't like the 2003 Clone Wars and I wouldn't be saying that show is good or gets good to someone I'm recommending star wars to. And for me 08's first 2 seasons is still really good for 75% of it, people just exaggerate how it's not. But in the 2003 show I do love how Grevious was portrayed in it and wish he were that way in modern Clone Wars and also wished they showed some more of the early days in the conflict, I just find the 2003 version a bit uninspiring, dull and lackluster. Its action is so over the top (which I interpret to it being a tale told by kids and witness of the Jedi in battle not an actual depiction of the events, I mean Yoda on a horse and Obi-wan with a medieval lance doesn't make much sense lol) and it doesn't have a lot going for it in plots, dialogue or character development. On my rewatch a couple years back, it was just a bit of a chore to get through and ultimately very boring and uninteresting for me. I actually found myself skipping ahead every few minutes to eventually turn it off and try to finish it another day. I get why some people love it though and it has a couple of things I really dig in it but ultimately I wouldn't recommend it if you're someone not all about action and I really prefer the darker tone, themes, character development, plots, storytelling and dialogue found in the current version which just has some of the best most authentic bits of Star Wars that I always found more true to Lucas's visions and the films to the point where I hold a lot of the arcs from the 2008 show as just as high regard as the Empire Strikes Back as some of the best works of Star Wars visual media I have ever seen.
Protector of the Realms
Hmm. Interesting. I read and reread my post. And I can’t seem to find the part of it where I asked for your opinion.
vnom84 vnom84 hmmm interesting , I read and reread your post and missed the part where it was wholly accurate and representative of how everyone feels, not just spreading misinformation or stating your opinion as fact, which is by default wrong as it's subjective at the very least. I thought I'd clear some stuff up and show you how to actually give an opinion of a piece of visual media by using a lot of I think, I interpret, I find, in my opinion. But evidently I have wasted my efforts as based on your response, you don't wish to engage with other fans and only want to consider your own opinion as gospel
Protector of the Realms
I do not care what you have to say. You are 100% correct. In fact, I never cared. And in response to me letting you know that, you wrote a fucking essay that I also have no intention of reading. Stay angry, hombre.
@@vnom84 lmao I aint the one angry swearing and just shouting how much better you think of yourself than everyone else for no reason when no one asked or cares. Keep being heated and saying completely false and wrong stuff, can't be a good way to live, I feel really sorry for you
I'm only a few seasons into 08 but I'd have to say so far I prefer 03, I'm always a fan of a show telling it's story without unnecessary trim, but I sometimes wonder what it would be like if instead of the 08 series we got, they had just brought Genndy back to continue his show and include more stuff in between volumes 1&2
I’m really happy the clone wars is back. These last few years have really killed my passion for Star Wars. I saw each movie in the sequel trilogy for my bday, and I didn’t like them that much, rogue one was the only one I genuinely enjoyed. All the controversy, the hate, the directors saying were sexist for not liking it, fans claiming Star Wars was dying. It broke my heart, I’m 18 and I’ve loved Star Wars since elementary school like most kids. My room is filled with Star Wars. With the mandalorian and the clone wars being released, that joy and passion I had for Star Wars is slowly coming back and I’m reminded of why I loved it so much. I might try getting ahold of some of the books and comics in the future
They both have strong suits, though I do like how the 2003 cartoon really made the Jedi seem overwhelmingly powerful and helped us understand why they were respected and feared, while the Clone Wars 2008 doesn't do nearly as good a job.
It's really a stylistic choice on Genndy's part
@@anthonygarcia8749 I thought Star Wars the clone wars 2008 CGI movie is a sequel to revenge of the sith
I all around prefer the 03 version. While 08 did have a lot more time to explore it's characters, 03 beats it in pretty much every other category.
I think it looks a lot better. I've always preferred 2d animation to 3d, And this is no exception. The 2d allows for less restricted movement and more expressive visuals, which carry the weight of the visuals a lot better.
It's also more streamlined, which I really like. Yes, the long run of 08 let it go in depth with a lot of things, which is nice, but it also had some bad episodes. Being streamlined means that every moment of 03 is meaningful, and it never drags. There are upsides and downsides, but I personally prefer the shorter, more consistent experience.
Finally, I just don't like clones as characters. If you've seen my comments on previous videos, I've said this before, but clones shouldn't be made into people. They were a faceless army, and that was kinda the point. It was a clever use of coding to make two faceless armies seem meaningful, but it was just propaganda that Palpatine used to take over. One side is robots, designed to look like bugs or skeletons, obviously evil. On the other side, the clones who look and move like people. However, in truth, the clones are soulless and programmed, just like the droids. I've always been a sucker for poetic subtext, and it was one of my favorite things about the prequels. It highlighted Palpatine and just how far reaching his puppeteering went. But that's all gone now.
08 was good, there's a reason it's beloved by the fanbase, but 03 really just has a certain magic to it that I never felt 08 captured. Maybe it's my own nostalgia, but 08 just never comes close to me.
XSoulbound __ I 100% agree
@Cole Pratt I'm not sure you read the whole comment.
Firstly, I wouldn't call it a "lame art style", it's Tartakovski. He's an animation legend, and this is no exception.
Visuals matter, that's why it's put in a visual medium, and 03 simply does it better.
Second, I also highlighted the streamlined viewing experience. 08 got a bit all over the place, it wasnt just long, but it would abruptly cut a story only to come back to it a season later. It was jumbled. Having a shorter, streamlined viewing experience is simply my preference.
And thirdly, the clones. I detailed this in my previous comment.
@Cole Pratt Once again, youre acting like the art is my only argument.
Look, I'm not saying 08 was bad. I like the 08 show, I acknowledge it did many things better than 03, but I just personally prefer 03. You can disagree, that's cool.
I prefer 2d animation, streamlined storytelling, and more visual storytelling, which are areas that 03 excels in. If you don't, whatever. You don't need to be a dick about it.
while 2d animation is timeless, i don't agree with your "clones should not be characters," thing, clones are people, they suffered too, they are not 'human droids,' they still have minds while the kaminoans messed with there minds to make them think l less freely, they are still human, the clones may share one face, but they all are human in the end, they all still think, so i don't agree with your faceless and soulless army.
@@johnpbauer I completely respect that angle. I definitely get that.
I just personally really like the symbolism of it. I'm a sucker for symbolism.
The Dark Horse comics clone wars run is defiantly the definitive version of the clone wars.
If I was to recommend a watch/read list for clone was. It would be select stories from the 2008 series, mainly ones the mythology of the force. But some others as well.
The entire 2003 series
The republic commando books
The entire dark horse comics run
Did I miss anything?
Thor Skywalker: mentions Dresden Files
Me: a Surprise to be sure, but a welcome one
I’ve only seen the ‘08 version, but season 4 is probably my favorite season of any tv show ever. Anyone have a good way to watch the ‘03 clone wats?
Pretty sure you can just look it up on yt
Brian Schlesinger They Exist on DVD but I think you can find them on UA-cam, i will try to find you a link
Here you go: ua-cam.com/video/0mdkKfLb8_0/v-deo.html
From 5:55 to 6:42 is my artwork. If you like it, you should see my Instagram @bossky_bossk; I have a bunch of artwork from Apex, DC, Marvel, and many others. I try to post twice a week, and I'm helping Thor with his version of the new trilogy.
'03 Clone Wars is for fans of the prequels.
'08 Clone Wars is for fans of the idea of the prequels.
What are you on about ?
Let’s be honest, the 2008 series would have been better off as the antithesis of Star Wars Republic, like say “Star Wars Confederacy.” And I believe that 2003 reigns supreme in continuity, as 2008 version really didn’t gravitate much towards the audience that follows it.
In fact, I believe that Anakin knighting in 2003 version is far better done, and I think that it ties in nicely for Revenge of the Sith. Heck, I think that the pairup of Anakin and Padmé is better written here too.
With 2008, Ahsoka Tano should have a character journey that does not impede with Anakin’s and her master should be someone else, and if the concept art for 5 characters means anything, the Twi’lek guy who in my opinion, screams Jedi Master, should be made as Ahsoka’s master as Plo Koon would just be her informant similar to Qui-Gon Jinn becoming Anakin’s informant.
Damn man don't make me choose.😂😂
Both they are canon for me just cause of a couple reasons!
First: Anakin was never showed turning into a Jedi knight in the 08 series!
Second: mixing both you get a Perfect character development with Anakin, at first being a pre-potent padwan and than becoming both an amazing jedi and master, and a good friend!
I'm in those 9/12% that prefer the 2003 (reasons are those expressed in the 2 rated comments). But either series are awesome, no hatred here :)
I agree!
The claim that the ‘03 CW lacks story is just like when critics of Mad Max: Fury Road said there wasn’t any story. They’re both pure cinema, meaning that fight with Anakin and Ventress had more character development than any line of dialogue could have offered. Images speak a thousand words after all.
> Images speak a thousand words after all.
It's strange people are perfectly accepting of movies and TV shows but comics & manga are still seen as childish by the general populace compared to regular novels.
2003 Series.
There. Done. No need for an extended video, you can all go home now~
I grew up during the 90's and I watched the Clone Wars 2003 series on Cartoon Network. I loved the show, and its storyline matched more in line with the connection between Episode 2 and Episode 3. However, I never understood why Clone Wars 2003 episodes were only 5 minutes long. I strongly believe that's one of the main reasons why we never got to see a volume 3 during 2004, and volume 2 ended with Anakin and Obi-Wan heading off into space to rescue Palpatine where Revenge of the Sith begins in 2005. The fans know that The Clone Wars 2008 and TV series, was always about Ahsoka and her journey to become a Jedi Knight, by being trained by Anakin. Plus, we got to see Qui-Gon again as a force ghost, Obi-Wan without a beard for one episode, and the shocking return of Darth Maul wanting revenge for his defeat at the end of The Phantom Menace.
The three things I hated about the new clone wars were that force users were weaker in the series, general grevious was nerfed to be as weak to be taken on my Padawan, and they made count dooku a 2d villain, instead of the gentleman we saw in episode II and III
I love both 2003 and 2008 versions of the clone wars. My only and biggest complaint is how the 08 clone wars treated Grievous he was so terrifying, badass and tragic (his Legends backstory is better than his canon backstory) in the 03 clone wars. The 03 clone wars also had Durge he looks really cool and he’s a badass.
Yeah It would be great if someone made a video rectifying the Canon of these two shows...
Besides Grievous, I honestly think the 2008 series is the easy winner. It actually has character arcs and long running stories, as well as actually showing the brutality of war. 2003 obviously had its violence, but we always saw it from the perspective of war heroes like the Jedi. I like a boots on the ground view now and then. And I say all of this as someone who adores both versions.
The 2003 Tartakovsky version is far better, in my personal opinion. The animation is amazing, the battles are large-scale, the clones are badass, Anakin is like in the movies and the story ties in better with the movies. TCW retconned a lot of the original EU stuff, made Grievous pathetic and added the stupid inhibitor chips, I just can't overlook those things as someone who grew up with the prequels, the EU and the 2003 mini series.
How is the inhibitor chips bad ? It makes way more sence 😂
I always liked both, but I watched 03 first, as a kid, and when I grew older I was it fix some of the plot holes in the movies from now they got to episode 2 to 3.it didn't explain all of it, but when you mixed it with the 08 version, where it ended before it could get to explain how the chancellor got kidnapped and why there was a lot of fighting being done over Coruscant, a lot of things get settled. Something I liked are the droids reactions in both series, always when they react to something about to explode, or something similair, since it brings character to them. 03 brings the best versions of Grevios, Count Dooko, some of the clone comanders, made windu, Ventress, Anikan. The 08 version expands on it, making some of it realistic and expanding on The backstories of the characters, and adding more, and giving life to the clones, which was one of my favorite things they brought from the 03 verion.
if u want action go to 03 if u want character development go to 08
Even Dave Floni repescts both clone wars. Floni has continue to make references to the 2003 series. The first one was that the first half of the 2003 is technically Canon. Becuase Anakin starts off as a Jedi Knight. So you can assume the events of Anakin being a knighted happened in Canon. Obiwan references the 2003 battle of Coruscant in season 7.
Which "version"? Clones are identical ;-)
Tartakovsky all the way. There are so many reasons(opinions) why that series is better. Grievous is horrifyingly awesome! The action is just amazing and the fights are incredible! And I love how it ends right as episode 3 starts. We even get to see the battle on Coruscant on the ground! Mace's machine gun punches, and yoda pulling a starkiller n thowing giant spaceships around. Ya that shit was incredibly amazing!
Edit: ok that was a very damn good point. I absolutely fucking LOVED how the 08 version treated the clones and personalised them. Still to this day, 99 just might be my all time favorite clone!
Edit edit: ok so ima just say for me, in my head canon, between the episodes of the 08 series, the events of the 03 version take place. That way its all canon to me!
The animation I prefer in the 2003 one but not by much... (I also grew up with that one as well.)
But otherwise it's like comparing FMA to FMA brotherhood. Overall the characters are done better in the current version. It's just given more time to flesh out everything and REALLY sell it to you. I dont think it's fair.
Technically I don’t think we lost the 03 Grevious. He was just always up against characters who had to make it to episode 3. When he was up against characters without plot armor, well they didn’t survive.
I love the 2003 legends version but the 2008 version is the best!
2003 was better in terms of characterization of the principal characters and story. 2003 had the best version of Anakin by a mile; it was the perfect combination of Hayden Christensen's version of the character combined with the mannerisms of the original Darth Vader. It also depicted Anakin's gradual turn to the Dark Side better. I still watch Anakin's fight in the original series with Asajj Ventress over and over because it felt like watching a young Vader more than even the films. The animation in the current Clone Wars really took it to another level in recent seasons, especially this one. The current clone Wars series showed the war on a grander scale, but 2003 felt more personal and more true to Star Wars for me.
While 3D Clone Wars had more screen time to flesh out the Star Wars galaxy, character-wise and action-wise, especially in the case of G. Grievous, 2D Clone Wars > 3D Clone Wars thus far.
This feels like the 501st vs the 212th on Umbara
*03 clone wars is still better and always will be better than CGI clone wars.* it’s just a fact.
I will give it this, the amount of comics that were spawned from the original series that carried over its art style was amazing and looked great
I didn't like Grievous in the 03 series. He was extremely OP I mean defeating 8 Jedi at once 3 of which were Jedi masters I mean that's just ridiculous. You could argue that Grievous in the 08 series wasn't intimidating because he got captured by Gungans or because he was always on the run, but Grievous shouldn't be able to take on a whole army and come out on top not to mention Tarpals sacrificed himself to badly injure Grievous the entire situation was believable. Gungans get a bad rep because of Jar Jar when they are actually a decent fighting force. Grievous also had some legitimately intimidating moments in the 08 series. The 08 Grievous more closely resembles the version we saw in ROTS. I think finding a good balance between being an intimidating killing machine and being a classic villain that runs away when they're defeated is the best route which I think the 08 version balanced pretty well. Maybe there should've been more intimidating moments from Grievous but the version we got in the 08 series is just all around better and more believable imo. The 03 version was extremely ridiculous because of how over exaggerated everything was (which is probably part of the appeal for some people). It makes the entire series less believable especially when it's connected to movies that feel way more grounded. Some of the visuals may be cool, but the 08 series beats the 03 version in that too. Also in terms of actual substance and actual character development the 08 version wins by a long shot. The 03 series had little to no substance and character development. I will admit that there was plenty of filler in the 08 clone wars series, but the good moments are enough to beat the 03 version. The good moments in the 08 series are more numerous than the entirety of the 03 series. Maybe if the 03 series was longer and it stayed consistently good throughout all of it I might reconsider this point, but that isn't the case.
Austin Moss yeah the one thing grievous didn’t have was the force, so he should be nothing more than a droid to the Jedi
@@wildboyz359 That's obviously not what I meant. He should still be able to take on jedi which he does because he has a collection of lightsabers, but he shouldn't be able to take on 8 jedi at once. Maybe 4 if they aren't all jedi masters. We see him take on jedi in the 08 series where he either wins or he's fighting Kenobi which they have an ongoing rivalry.
So, I disagree with a lot of what you said. You made good points, but having Grievous as the killing machine he was was part of the appeal for me. The design and over exaggeration was something I enjoyed and still enjoy. I like it because his tech makes him fast enough to dodge Jedi and his ability to strike fear threw them off their balance. I think that I do agree that there needs to be a limit to how many Jedi masters he can fight off, but it was always fun to watch as a kid, so that's what I was looking for. So now that I'm older and looking for it to make sense, I think that there needs to be a balance between 03 and 08, even if I'd personally prefer closer to 03. Your comment was insightful though, and I'm curious to go back and watch Grievous' episodes to see if my opinion changes at all. I've not heard many people say they dislike the 03, so it was an interesting read.
@@karn2923 Thank you, I really appreciate your comment. There's really no right or wrong answer here it's all kind of based off what you enjoy. I don't like the over exaggeration because it makes it seem less grounded, but I do understand how that's part of the appeal for a lot of people. I still think Grievous should be a killing machine, but being able to take on 8 jedi is excessive imo. It's clear in the 08 series that Grievous is still a killing machine because he still has his large collection of lightsabers now granted we only see a few instances where he actually kills or beats a jedi in the show, but that's because most of his confrontations are with Obi-Wan since he is one of the main characters of the show and Grievous isn't going to kill Obi-Wan obviously because we all know how their rivalry ends. I think the 08 series strikes a better balance between the killing machine and the cowardly villain than the 03 show because there really isn't much of a balance because as I've stated he's OP. Now granted the balance isn't perfect in the 08 series and it should probably have more moments of Grievous being a killing machine, but I still think it's better because at least there is a balance. Dislike might've been too strong of a word. I can see its worth, but the show just doesn't offer me much because I want those really in depth character moments and I want there to be substance to a story which I think the 08 series delivers on way more, and as far as the visuals go, like I've said everything is just so overly exaggerated which makes it feel less grounded and realistic especially when all the movies feel pretty grounded in terms of action and visuals which just makes the action less appealing. The action in the 08 series is more grounded and realistic which makes it more appealing to me.
Your entire argument falls apart in the beginning. It's clear you don't remember much about it, or didn't watch it and are talking out of your ass. Those Jedi Grievous are fucking up? Their already injured, not a single one of them is at their best during that fight.
the 08 version is supposed to take place in the middle of the montage in the 03 version, but it has General Grievous with his throat damaged, when we see it get like that at the very end of the 03 version , so the 08 version of him doesn't make sense, he would only have the throat damage given to him by Mace Windu at the very beginning of Episode III the Revenge of the Sith