Designing Homebrew Wargaming Rules
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- Опубліковано 17 тра 2021
- Adding some "house rules" to your favorite game is a time honored tradition in tabletop wargaming. Sometimes, your house rules turn into something even more elaborate--a "homebrew" system that starts to become its own game. Steve and Chal sit down to talk about designing and writing rules for yourself and for your friends. A game system that is not published is often called a homebrew game and developing one can be one of the great creative pleasures of the miniature wargaming hobby.
Ruthless, the free Wild West game by Mark Fastoso, began as a homebrew experiment and in this video Mark tells the story of how it came about. Join Little Wars TV for a fascinating discussion about the art and fun of rule design! - Ігри
Back in 1987, I created a set of WW2 rules for our local WW2 group to play at our bi-monthly wargames club meeting. Previously, we'd been using the God awful Tactical Commander (full of bugs!!) and before that, Kingfisher, which had a nice system mechanic for paratrooper scattering chaos.
The rules I came up with were an enhanced version of a a set of WW2 rules that I'd concocted, as a teenage wargamer, back in 1978, when I was at school. The difference now being that the real life percentage probability of armour penetration tables for every AT weapon & munition was included, based on a years of research trawling through Kummersdorf, Aberdeen & other range test reports, which I collect. (Did you know that the US Marine Corps determined, after tests, that a 50 Cal AP bullet had a 35% probability of penetrating the side armour of a Japanese Type 97 medium tank, square on at 50 yards??).
These rules proved a hit at the club and at conventions, being highly accurate, easy to pick up & fast playing.
In 1996 the rules had a total rewrite, with new features (some suggested by play testers/rules lawyers) and things that we weren't happy with were changed & improved. The rules gained the name "Panzergranate", at the same time.
In 1997 I published a stand alone easy to play 5 or more player game called "Hunting the Tiger", in a German online wargaming magazine (despite myself being a Brit). It was based on a convention "hook" participation game, that I'd run at a few conventions, using my rules, to entice new players into WW2 wargaming. in the game, 4 players, equipped with Shermans tanks, try to hunt down a lone player with a Tiger tank. Whoever kills the Tiger becomes the Tiger tank player in the next game. If a Sherman tank is killed , then that player is out of the game, so no need for morale tests as players play cautiously & sneakily. There is no infantry either, just tank on tank combat.
I've updated this game in 2018.
Years later, this game is still being played at clubs & conventions, globally.
The Panzergranate WW2 rules were last updated in 2018.
In 2020, I was diagnosed with Parkinson's Disease, which means that I can no longer be accused of not shaking the dice properly. It hasn't prevented me from wargaming. My most recent game was on Sunday 24th October 2021, playing as the Polish versus German SS troops holding a crossroads against a Polish counter attack.
This might sound blasphemous, but I’m totally reworking Star Wars Legion as a WWII game for younger players who may know Legion but not much about WWII
Not a bad idea at all. Makes the transition and teaching easier. Carry on good sir!
Why not just play Bolt Action?
@@bigbake132 bolt action does a terrible job at representing WW2, the rulebook is a mess with many important rules hidden in paragraphs upon paragraphs all over the place. Legion, while it has its flaws, is a much tighter and easier system to learn.
@@podrekreinhard I have the original edition of Bolt Action with several of the supplements and never had any issues learning the game or finding rules. I've only played Legion twice and didn't get into it. It felt kinda bland to me, I preferred Imperial Assault and also because I have 100's of Star Wars Miniatures from Wizards of the Coast and didn't need another Star Wars miniatures game in a different scale. I used to play the Axis and Allies Miniatures game a ton back in the day, that would be a good introductory WW2 miniatures game for kids.
@@bigbake132 1st edition bolt action had the same problems though, only worse. Next to useless machine guns, infantry units operating like 40k squads, horrible vehicle rules etc.
As for finding rules, its an issue of the layout. For example, firing HE at a building requires you to look up 6 different sections in the rules and the exact rule for how it works is split between those sections. The index will direct you to HE which simply says which page the rule for it is on, then the building rules explain how to alter the normal rules, when all the actual interaction does is negate cover
Great topic. I got pulled into making my rules for some games, and quickly realized how an idea can sound so brilliant, until you play test it. But the process of making and testing rules is really immersive and interesting. It deepens the appreciation of the hobby. Thanks guys
Play testing is a must. That creates feedback. Nice
Great discussion guys. I especially liked Chal's attitude of being respectful to game authors and trying to understand the choices they make, even when one doesn't like them. Rules writing is difficult, or at least what's difficult is pleasing everyone. I try to understand what the rules try to achieve, even if I decide they are not for me. The internet has the unfortunate aspect that it amplifies negative emotions, so a "negative" review can sound trollish even when that tone wasn't intended (I know I have voiced opinions which could have been more carefully worded!)
Thanks. Writing rules is hard work... lots of respect for authors out there.
As someone who is currently working on my own rules for a campaign driven tabletop game this was a really informative video to watch!
Interesting discussion. I'm as "guilty" as anyone in coming up with and playing with "house rules" for games I play, and have done my share of "homebrew" rules as well. One thing I think is important with "house rules" is to actually write them down. This makes you put some thought into what you want the "house rules" to accomplish, and it allows you to play them consistently over time (nothing says you can't tweak them later, but just update what you've written down). Also, if you're going to play the game and it's been awhile, or with new people, you can send them "house rules" before the game, so they're prepared/familiar with them.
Steve's civil-war era beard is so on point
Homebrew is definitely the way to go with most things. My D&D group were playing 5e for 6 months before I re-wrote the PHB down to 25 pages and stripped back the rules to look more like OD&D. Now I can create a character in 30 seconds to a minute rather than 2 hours.
Great, I was waiting for something more elaborate about Chal's system, as it was looking very interesting.
Our group of 7 only play home brewed or heavily amended commercial sets. Rules are a toolkit for us to amend.We aren't competition gamers and enjoy the social interaction more than a victory
Exactly the video i needed at the moment for my own homebrew game! Thanks little wars TV!
You do not need to spend massive amounts of money on rules, as some systems would have you believe. For games between friends homebrew is key. Thankyou for getting this out there.
Great discussion! You guys hit it on the head with the subjectiveness of enjoying game systems!
An excellent video, I always enjoy hearing from games designers and what goes into the mechanics of a game they come up with. I usually go with rules as written, but one of my mates is the complete opposite. I know when I show him a new set of rules he immediately thinks of another period that the core mechanics would work with. It's like clockwork at this point!
Yes! I've been waiting for this video.
Also: pls gib shootout rules, I really want them
Thanks, this has provided inspiration to devise shooting, movement and melee systems for skirmish games which may not be entirely unique, but are reasonably original when combined. Cheers.
Could we hear a little bit about the process of publishing a rules system? What is the process like of sourcing artwork, the graphic design, production, etc.?
Definitely a topic we've talked about covering in more detail!
Great chat guys. I really enjoyed it.
One thing that is important with home brew is you need to understand probabilities with dice. Too often in my group the guys modify a particular dice roll in a game to change an outcome and it completely throws off the whole system. Be wary of unintended consequences that destroy the rest of the game. 🎲
I made that type of mistake in an early (pre publication) version of Disposable Heroes and Coffin for Seven Brothers. I had penetration based on rolling multiple d6's to get a bigger range (higher penetration), yet, the more dice I used the more probability dictated middle of the road penetration totals. So I had to change it.
I'm still waiting for Steve's Sengoku Jidai rule set.
I expect it to be released in Broadway musical format.
Waiting patiently also
Your parting comments about not being afraid to try resonate with me particularly. I’ve written and published a rule set and even though I haven’t become a GW or Warlord as a result, it’s nice to experience the games industry from the inside. Writing the game was just as fun as playing the game! So I say try to make your perfect game if you’ve been hesitating!
Absolutely! Guys in our club tinker with systems and rules all the time, and often it doesn't work out. But that's all part of the fun and the "trial & error" process.
Are your Shootout rules available?@@LittleWarsTV
A really enjoyable chat. Thank you Guys!
P.S. Chal: "I am an Old Man" ...Nah, you're still a youngling, sir. I'm 65 & still not old. You're doing fine.
Just getting back into mini's. Hex n counter is still my main type of gaming.
GHQ micro-armour. I realized the old rule set that I started with is lacking quite a bit though it is very reminiscent of the combat systems of Avalon Hill's Tobruk. Got about 10 to 15 pages of notes of not sure what of, probably tweaks that I was looking at doing. I just want to refamiliarize myself before I look for a more 'cleaner' rule set. thoroughly enjoyed having my tanks back on the table and I've already started writing up some fresh notes.
My Tombstone set should be here Thursday. Thanks.
Darn. just realized even with dozens of westerns, I do not have a single tombstone/Wyatt Earp movie. oh I'm so ashamed. Great video.
Thanks again.👍👍
Good video. I wrote my own WW2 set of rules “All Hell Let Loose” for 6mm (and 10mm miniature) scale battles and put them on Wargames Vault so I sympathise with many of the issues you discussed.
I have a gaming weekend coming up with a group of close friends. We're focusing mostly on board games, but I've set up Ruthless as a main event. We'll play a quick all-against-all scenario to get everybody accustomed to the rules. After that, we'll divide into teams: Act 1: a bank robbery, Act 2: a wild wagon chase, Act 3: a shootout in a old mine. I've had to create a lot of special rules for each act, but the concise character of the base ruleset inspire those special rules to be very simple and straightforward. I'm expecting my board gamer friends to really have a good time with this because of its flexibility and simplicity.
Homebrewing rules is what I like to refer to as 'accessing the giganerd'
Been looking foward to this!
History , easy ,fun.
You lot are brilliant.
Battles with model soldiers
Donald Featherstone
Played it when I was 10 - found book again in a charity shop for a £1.
Be great to watch you lot play a game of two.
Great talk guys, you mentioned 6mm samurai. Robert Fellows from 2D6 Wargaming made a rule set - BANZAI Age of the country at war (3rd Edition 2017). Really enjoying it!
All the best!
Great video! Back on 2009, our club had a store wide d-day 65th anniversary game day. Lots of rules were used, but I wanted a skirmish feel to my game similar to Saving Private Ryan. DHCF7B was hugely popular in our group, so that’s what went with. That edition had rules for amphibious landings, but to the point of the video, I made a handful of tweaks to get it where I wanted it for that specific scenario...well more a home rule rather than a home brew I suppose. Anyways, thanks for a wonderful set of rules that brought about MANY hours of fun!!!
PS - I’d love to see the amphibious rules in a future supplement for DH2 of which I have a copy!
Take care guys!
Definitely like to tweak rules to fit specific games. And yes, it is easy to take it to far and unbalance the rules as a whole.
I've got a few games that I've worked on, several were more designed to fill the old challenges on the (now defunct) Lost World Safari yahoo group...which I really miss, but it died a rather slow death with only a couple of us there in the end.
I then expanded and worked out the system into a fun multiplayer bit of chaos that was intended for something more like a mix of the multiplayer game modes with everyone for themselves mixed with a horde situation. Basically everyone playing a character with hordes of raptors or other things coming in from all sides with dinosaur kills for points against each other...then expanded it to add a lot of borderlands zaniness to the mix.
The entire game design came from watching Jurassic Park the day before Thanksgiving and the "Six-Foot Turkeys" bit led to using old pewter pilgrims and indians to hunt velociraptors (Though the roles often ended up reversed) in something fun and fast.
6 years ago, I took the Flames of War rules and took it to a blender to create my rules called Mobile Suit Gundam: The Gravity Front. It took me 4 months to create a working ruleset because the club I am with, is the HAWKS. They encouraged me and helped me write these rules and offered their critique which I took to heart.
I took this homebrew and made another one called Muv-Luv Alternative Tactics which won an award! Yay! Super happy about it still.
There was another one called Rifles To The Front but it flopped. I’ll probably revise that one as my 4th game I am still developing, after 2 years, is based off of Rifles To The Front but simplified.
really insightful! thank you
This is a nice Vid to watch and to dive into this "diy" Rule concept.
I'm not a Wargamer of any kind (except you call Chess or Go a wargame), but we're (my brother and me) designing a "Floorwar" wargame for our sons and their friends.
That started as an having fun while Corona Projekt where the boys had to use their heads.
So we end up with constant Floorwars Conflicts in our or my brothers house...kind of annoying for our wives. So we had to retreat from our mencaves.
Stay save to you all and have fun playing👍
Great insight on game designs. I did one called "The Great Canoe Race" which takes place during the F&IW period. Really fun game, and have made tweaks over the years as I come to like newer skirmish style games systems. I can appreciate the the discussion on player likeability versus game play. Thanks again for a another good video.
I am sure I saw that or something like it at HMGS East. I used to run a modified This Very Ground (homebrewed mods by this co-author) scenario called "Someday the Bear Gets You" which is an FIW era bear hunt gone wrong. Not exactly historically accurate, but a lot of fun.
@@chalfantconley5995 A bear hunt...Mmmm...that sound pretty cool. May have to do something like that. For my Canoe race, I actually did a This Very Ground mod, then I did a Sharpe's Practice mod to it, then finally a slight mod with Blood & Plunder...My go-to Pirate game system. I wanted a two-page rule max, and used a card activation system to activate your canoe and Outpost crew. The mods were mostly for the basic moves, shoot and melee.
This video is sorely needed and must-see. Home brewing rules encourages research and discussion about how to game real-life events and a vital part of historical miniature wargaming. Well done!
Oh year, unleash the creativity!!
Thanks for a great channel, I'm getting more and more addicted the more I watch. This was a particularly interesting episode.
I'm a relatively new wargamer so wouldn't consider myself qualified to modify existing rules, at least not yet. One frustration I do have though is the points based way many games are put together. I can understand why so many games are put together using points but it seems unnatural to me and turns wargaming more towards chess than I am comfortable with. Reality is nearly always different. from my reading of history war consists mostly of unequally sized forces face off in last stands, delaying actions, ambushes or simply due to the capriciousness of war. For gamers the balance, to my mind, would come in having terrain they can use to their advantage, concealment, surprise and victory conditions that are realistic for the differences in force capabilities.
Could you guys do an episode on scenario design that would allow players with uneven forces to face off with a reasonably even chance of winning? I'm sure your experience setting up interesting scenarios would make this a fascinating video.
length of spears, especially in less armored contexts, is actually extremely important. Heck, one of alexander’s main advantages was his exceptionally long pikes.
I think Chainmail also has a system where the longer weapon gets to attack first in most situations. think thats pretty reasonable. of course you could go overboard with the minutia of it. Think things more complex than “is x longer than y” is probably too nitty gritty generally.
About the Japanese reaction table, I think you have it a little back to front. Instead of forcing the player to do, what you want to see, which is in effect, a banzai charge. I would rather say the last turn is "nightfall" and the Japanese who are not on an objective, get a double move to take an objective and an extra furious charge. Not only is it closer to "history" but its not hand cuffing the player.
Great fireside chat. Plenty of food for thought.
Love these ideas, brothers
So many historicly famous battles have a personality querk modern informed players would be loath to repeat. I'm thinking the French arrogance at Argencourt and British frontal assaults on New Zealand fortifications 1860s in particular. This exceptional discussion addresses these issues. Bravo 👍👍
There's no link for "The Dollop"-The landlords game episode . Just an fyi
Chal’s rules rule. I loved DH so much.
Thanks, always appreciated your enthusiasm over the years.
Nice discussion guys 👍🏻😊
The first thing I read was "Designing Hebrew Wargaming Rules".
My bad
Oy Vey
That could be interesting
Funny that you mentioned Ravenfeast because I want to make a Samurai homebrew for it.
Q&A. Do you guys, plan to make a video on,
Maybe, how Greg does his scenarios on Microsoft word, kinda like his MS paint tutorial?.
A niche I have noticed, and maybe will make something for someday, is wargames for the low fantasy genre. Most fantasy wargames are very, very fantastical. I personally am more interested in something like "historical wargaming but for a different world's history", if that makes any sense.
Very nice video
Wahoo! We’ve been mentioned!
‘Best thing since sliced bread’!! 😂😂 We’ve finally got you Yanks speaking the Queens English properly. 😂😂
Phase 2 is to teach them how to spell English words correctly!!
Amen bother! I really enjoy your Rule Reviews, but Please add comments on how you would improve the game. Your club has a vast combined experience and your opinions could help a lot of us trying to improve existing rules. For example: in your Rules Reviews several people mentioned that Flames of War and Bolt Action are not historical. I agree, I like the models, some of the rules, but I don't want to play 40K set in WWII. So please don't just say "it's broke", but state what rules you would change or add to make the game better. I respect your opinions and I don't really want to buy and analyze a dozen rules sets to find my perfect rules set (which probably doesn't exist). Thanks for this video and I look forward to more "homebrew" or house rules discussion.
I'm working on using the Forbidden Lands Rpg system to play a mass battle with around 400-500 figures on the table. It's harder than I thought it would be.
When do you guys think the campaign is going to be coming out?
Did you guys see the Wargames Illustrated Nevermind the Billhooks free Wargame Rules booklet they gave away with issue 393. Wondered how you might review that as an intro ruleset, it came out last Autumn around the same timeish as your Ravenfeast.
We haven't played it yet, but we found Nevermind the Billhooks about two months ago. Defintely interested to try!
@@LittleWarsTV I'll defiately be interested to see the Review and battle report :)
I was hoping for an example similar to adding a GW style saving throw to a TwoHourWargames or Rebel miniature title. Whatever does it for you is fine, but I’m stopping less than 4min in.
Is there anyway to get access to Chal’s rules system you used in the Tombstone episode? Would be interested in the enhancements used
No, not yet. Thinking about what it'd take to make it happen ... ha ha, and seriously, some people would hate the game :)
Ok thanks
I bet I wouldn’t hate it! Lol
One thing is the need to not get angry if someone does not agree with all of the rules. It may be my life's great work and I could be extremely proud of it. But if I become enraged at the slightest criticism I am missing the chance to understand something I may have missed or could be improved. And different people like different things for different reasons. I like Squad Leader and its advanced successor. Yet it is often a subject of derision by modern rules fans. One thing also is that different style of players NEED different rules. A rules set written for a casual bunch of friends looking to have a few laughs will be mutilated by the tournament, power hungry gamers. They need a rules set like Warmachine, designed with that mindset baked in. While Warmachine would fail to meet the needs of that casual group. Nice video guys.
I made a old west game where people run single characters back in 2020 when I had COVID.
Are the Shootout rules available, if so how much?
Could you PLEASE PLEASE make a rule review on, Psycho Slaher?
I'm working on writing rules for Napoleonic warfare that incorporates A) fog of war; scouting and reporting B) having players issuing orders simultaneously to avoid the move/react playing style and C) mechanics to represent how morale was shared within an army. Anyone with ideas they are willing to share regarding these would be most welcome.
You can’t go wrong with a very shuffled deck of cards, write a series of really random events that might occur allocating a card to each event, pop these onto the card. Example events may include a sudden downpour, that your commanders horse throws its rider, through to good things such as your reserve is available one move earlier than you’d hoped (must be Davout driving the boys on?) Draw one card each move et voila, chance, misfortune, luck and opportunity have arrived.
The only way to go is non prescriptive wargaming. What we have been doing for years. Frankly wargaming requires flexibility in order to encourage player primacy.
This has to be the main advantage of miniature and board wargaming over computer wargaming,
Can I find those Shootout rules somewhere?
They are homebrew, at least for now!
The Dollop rules!
When I started gaming there were two sets of published rules out there. One was by a guy named Wells. Home Brewed was all we had. I like a lot of the new systems that are now appearing, the skirmish games and the individual gun fighter one are great . They are a good gate way into historical gaming. I would like to see a set something on the order of the individual gun fighter type set in the F&I period. SP2 and Tomahawks and Muskets still require "units", there have been a number of fights though out history that were only a half dozen guys on a side. Even in the mist of the Battle of Gettysburg there was a case were 6 Federals attacked a handful of Rebs in a barn. Just like your gun fight game, these could be played out on a small table with a limited number of figures.
Rules should be played through a number of games before changing them. In the past I have played with rules that people made up, that were all about them. Tweaking rules for a individual battle is good . If I go to play somewhere I just follow what the club members use.
i make games cos i am too cheap to buy games. I buy minis and use my own rules. I also like having full control and the fun of making them.
I have never played war games but my 6yr and 10yr grandsons are interested how do I get started Alec from Scotland
Lots of ways to get started, Alex. But we'll recommend our FREE beginner rules, available at www.ravenfeast.com as a great option. It's Vikings, and each side creates a warband with as few as a dozen models per side. We even offer free paper models to get you started!
Where are the Pyyrhic War videos? Quite a wait. Hasn't been much to watch here.
We are in the middle of the campaign right now, and our patrons are getting the real time updates. Currently starting Turn 3 of 5. But as we said when we first announced the campaign, the videos will all be released later in the year when the campaign is resolved. We aren't starting the video editing on that until it's over. Plenty of other battles in the meantime, though!
@@LittleWarsTV I appreciate the patrons getting first dibs. I just thought you started long ago. And as far as other battles, there's basically just been Tombstone?
I am trying to integrate The Plague from WARPATH into Warhammer 40K. Came here for ideas
I basically never play games That are published.... Cuz Im broke and can't afford shit.
Jokes aside, I have almost never bothered to buy rules, as my attention span isn't great, and I currently am working on around 15 different projects. This never gives me the chance to get together enough minis for most rules. Even for games like for example lion rampant. And games that have a lower model count than 20 per side usually are overly complex, where the author usually feels the need to put on stuff like "hp" or nineteen different abilities for one character. Sometimes I feel like these games compensate for the amount of models with tokens and markers.
Don't think I've ever played a game with the rules exactly as written.
Spoken like a true grognard, Martin!
@@LittleWarsTV Oh yes!
Your own rules. Why do Berserkers have an armor rating? They fought without armor. When crazy naked Germanic speaking troops ran up against veteran troops they did poorly. In a skirmish this is a possibility. The crazed naked Viking coming up against a guy with a spear and a shield will, one on one, will have a terrific advantage. Oh well. But I get it.
Why is Steve dressing like Pat from SNL?
Well why not go back to the original kriegs spiel , all rules clear and happy and where used from 1800s up till early 20th century.
No other game or rule book comes close to that game.
Kriegsspiel is a great game, but also a very, very particular one. It's the "original" wargame in our hobby, but certainly doesn't cover everything. In fact, it doesn't cover most conflicts in military history.
@@LittleWarsTV Depends on what version you have the original had a book of 600 pages. it was later waterd down.
Still these are great games.
Who in jiminy's name is making a living from selling "Pliny the Elder" t-shirts?
Well it is a damn good beer....
Games are fun there supposed to be a distresser you should tattoo this on people's foreheads