it looks like like first tile was trowel long ways and the second one was troweled across the short side as recommended. I think this may account for the lack of coverage probably contributed to the Ardex tile falling early. Either was this was a useful demo! I never have time to do tests on all of the products I would like to so I appreciate these videos!
Just started doing tile as an apprentice and love your videos. Always loved science and experiments like this too, so this is great. Keep up the good work man.
Maybe next time, do the test in a sloped ceiling, pitched to code for a steam shower in your area. That would better reassemble real-world applications. Mesure the amount of slide downwards each thinset allows. That is the biggest problem, in my opinion, when it comes to tiling ceiling in a steam shower. The slope is what kills. A flat level celing takes tile beautifully. Knowing what thinset prevents slippage in a sloped ceiling installation would be extremely valuable. Thank you for your videos. I absolutely love them. You're a total legend to me and my tile installers.
I wonder if he was doing the test more for which is strongest when wet. It’s gets sketchy once we have to start putting 2’x2’ and bigger on ceilings. Mortar that’s sticky and has good suction is important.
outstanding video - i installed this spring 24 " x 24" porcelain tile on a shower ceiling - I used Mapei's Ultraflex LFT mortar - I do not any longer have the strength to lift and hold 18#'s above my head - so i used cabinet lift jacks on top of a ladder to lift the tile into place - the lift jacks apply a lot upward force - after a very short period I pulled the jack and then used my Zip Wall poles to add additional support to those tile - the next day I pulled the Zip Wall poles - very scary putting up such heavy tile directly over my head -
What I've noticed with ceilings is how much deflection there is in the substrate determines whether or not the tiles fall. Always have plenty of lumber supporting the ceiling so when you're putting tiles up there is no movement. Then, most any thinset will work.
I prefer prolite over the other 2. Especially over the x77. I have not been impressed with the holding power of ardex thinsets. When I have had to do a repair on tiles set with ardex, the tiles almost always come up as 1 piece. Ever after 2 months of drying. Any time that I have had to do a repair on a tile adhered with customs, the tile will break in to smaller pieces as i remove it. Even when the thinet is only a few days dry. I guess the benefits of ardex is pot life, ease of cleaning up the bucket, and ease of repairs. That would be a good test for you to do. Glue some tile down and let it dry for 2 weeks and pull them up. I bet you can get the ardex tiles up in 1 piece.
I love that you do these testing videos. Have you ever used a rapid set product called “One Pass”? I would love to see a video testing that in water proofing a shower. What do you think?
Air traped. Blocks spread of the glue. Under load the lower air pressure created between the tile and the ceiling will be a strong force. 14 psi max atmospheric pressure. Time under load allows air to seep in and relieve lower air suction. So I still don't want to stand under a tile ceiling. That has been in place for a while. But the set glue is not relying on air pressure to bond tiles to ceiling backer bd. 😊 Just my thoughts.
All thinsets aside...what kind of pouch do you have Mr.Tilecoach. I like it, I have one that I rigged up, i put a aluminum can inside, so my utility knife won't poke thru.
I thought #1 was MultiMax Lite #2 was ProLite and #3 was Ardex X 77, according to your product bag lineup? I feel like I missed the part of the test that clearly designated which product brand was in which position.
It looked like the two tiles that you showed side by side, at the end, were different sizes. If they weren't exactly the same size then the bigger tile would have more surface area therefore more holding power. But maybe it was a trick of the light...
If Isaac had any idea about how the different products were designed and why, he would have realized the faults in his “experiment”. But, since he is about views and not the truth, this is what you get. You see, Ardex X77 is not like traditional mortars. It has a unique ability to allow you to adjust tiles long after you set them in case you are off line or for other reasons. So in this instance, what you witness is the delay in initial grab due to its unique ability. What you actually witnessed was a compelling result by all manufacturers. All had the ability to hold not only a tile to the ceiling, but to hold a significant amount of weight as well. The difference being, the Pro Light had begun to set and hydrate faster than the X77 and MML. What this means is the pro lights initial grab showed you have less time for adjustments without breaking bond whereas the X 77 gave you more time and the Laticrete MML was in between. What Isaac actually proved was the opposite of what you saw. Initial hold is one thing, but curing and final hold are another. Ardex mortars achieve a stronger bond over time and give you more time to work with them. That is what you saw.
He was still able to move the prolite tile easily before it came off. I get your point, but he is comparing the initial hold on a ceiling to see if the wet thinset can hold the tile, not the cured strength
Very Interesting. I feel like there’s still more benefits to using thinset like MML and X77 or Tec totalflex 150 because they’re self curing. Feel like pro lite needs a lot of time to cure when installed over a sealed membrane system. Just my thoughts. Also wonder if MML had the best coverage since it was troweled to short side.
If you leave a hole in the middle of the thinset it creates a suction and you could hang from it with the suction cup im 170 idk about heavier guys lol
Too bad Ardex didn't have X-7-G or W still available to make this same test. X-7 that used to be 701 was the shit & the pioneer of non sags in the 80's,90's,2000's then Ardex changed to X-7 in 2010's & both were extremely strong in the nonsag properties. I would use 701/X-7 W/G to cut my base grade latex thinsets. Especially when doing showers. I've been looking for the next X-7 since Ardex discontinued. Many Supply distributors have gone away from Ardex because of the cost. BigD's being one of them. Tom Duffy still carries Ardex. What I've been told from Ardex reps is the X-77 is not the same as the older 701/X-7. Great example for testing all 3 products.
That was the idea of the test... i.e. to test the thinsets while they were still wet! When your installing tiles on a ceiling the last thing you want is for them to start falling off within minutes of putting them up. Worse yet, having them fall off while your still standing under them installing additional tiles.
This might be a dumb question but why does it matter how much weight they can hold? When does a tile ever experience that much pulling force that it would need even more than 5 pounds of strength?
Heavy tiles maybe your doing 2'x4' the person wants it on the ceiling. Of course you (I atleast) would put a couple clips and maybe an extension pole in the middle just to be safe
Recently installed some 24x48 tiles. Granted I didn't install them on a ceiling, but you could. Each individual tile weighed 35lbs! (I'd be real nervous standing under a fresh unsupported installation.)😮
@@eltonnoway7864 Right, I'd also be just as nervous, which is why I'd always support each tile until the thinset sets up, in which case, why does this test matter?
You can’t really say the test is equal the 3 buckets were tied differently, buckets were at different lengths you have to account for gravity, and lastly different suction cups, at this point to me it seems the test is more for which had a better suction cup then thinset in a test shouldn’t the testing be the same for all subjects only difference being the subject?
You didn’t do them all the same the directional trawling was different on the first one that fell you did it with the long way of the tile instead of short like the other ones
I’ll be willing to bet you mixed X77 wrong if you mixed them all to a non day consistency. ARDEX thunders only require 2 minutes of mixing. If you over or under mix it, it messes up the chemistry and performance of the product. I’ll be willing to bet this is why it failed first. You can’t change chemistry or all bets are off. This site needs to learn how yo demo products according to the manufacturers instructions which they go outside of a lot on here.
X77 gains strength over time as it’s an engineered cement product. The fact that it gave way first only means it was the most trowable still and the others had begun to stiffen already.
it looks like like first tile was trowel long ways and the second one was troweled across the short side as recommended. I think this may account for the lack of coverage probably contributed to the Ardex tile falling early. Either was this was a useful demo! I never have time to do tests on all of the products I would like to so I appreciate these videos!
Used prolite on the kids bathroom tub ceiling! Good to see they don't need a helmet! Thanks for the laughs!
Just started doing tile as an apprentice and love your videos. Always loved science and experiments like this too, so this is great. Keep up the good work man.
Looks like they all worked pretty good to me.
Not sure which impressed me more: the holding power of each thin set or the holding power of the suction cups!
Maybe next time, do the test in a sloped ceiling, pitched to code for a steam shower in your area. That would better reassemble real-world applications. Mesure the amount of slide downwards each thinset allows. That is the biggest problem, in my opinion, when it comes to tiling ceiling in a steam shower. The slope is what kills. A flat level celing takes tile beautifully. Knowing what thinset prevents slippage in a sloped ceiling installation would be extremely valuable.
Thank you for your videos. I absolutely love them. You're a total legend to me and my tile installers.
Spacer and wedges at the end.
i think its more about the consistancy you mix it . a true test of bond strength should be done after the thinset cures.
They shoulda just put the tile in, then waited the 48 or plus hours then came back and done the video
I wonder if he was doing the test more for which is strongest when wet. It’s gets sketchy once we have to start putting 2’x2’ and bigger on ceilings. Mortar that’s sticky and has good suction is important.
outstanding video - i installed this spring 24 " x 24" porcelain tile on a shower ceiling - I used Mapei's Ultraflex LFT mortar - I do not any longer have the strength to lift and hold 18#'s above my head - so i used cabinet lift jacks on top of a ladder to lift the tile into place - the lift jacks apply a lot upward force - after a very short period I pulled the jack and then used my Zip Wall poles to add additional support to those tile - the next day I pulled the Zip Wall poles - very scary putting up such heavy tile directly over my head -
What I've noticed with ceilings is how much deflection there is in the substrate determines whether or not the tiles fall. Always have plenty of lumber supporting the ceiling so when you're putting tiles up there is no movement. Then, most any thinset will work.
Hey guy thanks for your videos and all the info it’s so good👌🏻
You’re the man. Thank you
I like the little blue specs in the customs ;)
Great video I’m actually doing a huge ceiling with 24x48s as we speak
Thanks for the personal encouragement ! Way to end the video. You took me away from everything that goes on around us all!
Impressive and awesome 👍
This video deserves likes 👍 yes, I sell these things I want to know
Excelente vídeo coach, Thanks Thanks Thanks
I prefer prolite over the other 2. Especially over the x77. I have not been impressed with the holding power of ardex thinsets. When I have had to do a repair on tiles set with ardex, the tiles almost always come up as 1 piece. Ever after 2 months of drying. Any time that I have had to do a repair on a tile adhered with customs, the tile will break in to smaller pieces as i remove it. Even when the thinet is only a few days dry.
I guess the benefits of ardex is pot life, ease of cleaning up the bucket, and ease of repairs.
That would be a good test for you to do. Glue some tile down and let it dry for 2 weeks and pull them up. I bet you can get the ardex tiles up in 1 piece.
Ok, so I got the Kiesel, which you recommended, and then saw this! I booked a one2one tomorrow morning as I'm ready to start the ceiling.
Id love to see cheap veersabond vs expensive all set . Great video guys!
Good test, just so you know water is 8lbs a gallon, the saying I learned was pint a pound the world around. Thanks for the videos.
I love that you do these testing videos. Have you ever used a rapid set product called “One Pass”? I would love to see a video testing that in water proofing a shower. What do you think?
Very interesting, I wander about full set strength. If they would come off once set. I imagine not likely?
Great fun, thanks :)
Loved the test!!! But, should've had your safety glass on in case the tiles fell and shattered!
Nice video ❤️👌🏻💪🏼
Great idea for a video
Air traped.
Blocks spread of the glue.
Under load the lower air pressure created between the tile and the ceiling will be a strong force.
14 psi max atmospheric pressure.
Time under load allows air to seep in and relieve lower air suction.
So I still don't want to stand under a tile ceiling. That has been in place for a while.
But the set glue is not relying on air pressure to bond tiles to ceiling backer bd. 😊
Just my thoughts.
Better start stocking up before this video gets popular and they jack up the price.
$32.97 at my local store as of today 8/19/2024
not even done with the video but i feel the need to sprint to home depot
All thinsets aside...what kind of pouch do you have Mr.Tilecoach. I like it, I have one that I rigged up, i put a aluminum can inside, so my utility knife won't poke thru.
still like that X77
They all passed. Good to know
I thought #1 was MultiMax Lite #2 was ProLite and #3 was Ardex X 77, according to your product bag lineup? I feel like I missed the part of the test that clearly designated which product brand was in which position.
Nice! Will be installing some large 32x64 tiles soon and plan to use multimax.. If it can hold on the ceiling, I'll be fine with it on the wall.. 🤣
They are all good.
cool test thuogh.
Ok I know odd question, but what tiles are you using? 12x24, porcelain maybe? From…? I like the look of it.
It looked like the two tiles that you showed side by side, at the end, were different sizes. If they weren't exactly the same size then the bigger tile would have more surface area therefore more holding power. But maybe it was a trick of the light...
Awesome
If Isaac had any idea about how the different products were designed and why, he would have realized the faults in his “experiment”. But, since he is about views and not the truth, this is what you get. You see, Ardex X77 is not like traditional mortars. It has a unique ability to allow you to adjust tiles long after you set them in case you are off line or for other reasons. So in this instance, what you witness is the delay in initial grab due to its unique ability. What you actually witnessed was a compelling result by all manufacturers. All had the ability to hold not only a tile to the ceiling, but to hold a significant amount of weight as well. The difference being, the Pro Light had begun to set and hydrate faster than the X77 and MML. What this means is the pro lights initial grab showed you have less time for adjustments without breaking bond whereas the X 77 gave you more time and the Laticrete MML was in between. What Isaac actually proved was the opposite of what you saw. Initial hold is one thing, but curing and final hold are another. Ardex mortars achieve a stronger bond over time and give you more time to work with them. That is what you saw.
He was still able to move the prolite tile easily before it came off. I get your point, but he is comparing the initial hold on a ceiling to see if the wet thinset can hold the tile, not the cured strength
Very Interesting. I feel like there’s still more benefits to using thinset like MML and X77 or Tec totalflex 150 because they’re self curing. Feel like pro lite needs a lot of time to cure when installed over a sealed membrane system. Just my thoughts. Also wonder if MML had the best coverage since it was troweled to short side.
You really need to check out the Tec Totalflex line too. I feel like it’s so slept on.
so they all work well. they just have to hold the weight of the tile.
Where are you located at I Would like to come and take some clases in person
Haw about Shluter ?
Wouldn’t even last by itself. Love schluter products but they’re thinset does not hold weight well at the fuck all.
Fun!
Let’s see pro-lite vs servio-lite!!!
If you leave a hole in the middle of the thinset it creates a suction and you could hang from it with the suction cup im 170 idk about heavier guys lol
Cool
Would allset be even better?
Interesting
Test megalite please.
Is this osha approved
Too bad Ardex didn't have X-7-G or W still available to make this same test. X-7 that used to be 701 was the shit & the pioneer of non sags in the 80's,90's,2000's then Ardex changed to X-7 in 2010's & both were extremely strong in the nonsag properties. I would use 701/X-7 W/G to cut my base grade latex thinsets. Especially when doing showers. I've been looking for the next X-7 since Ardex discontinued. Many Supply distributors have gone away from Ardex because of the cost. BigD's being one of them. Tom Duffy still carries Ardex. What I've been told from Ardex reps is the X-77 is not the same as the older 701/X-7. Great example for testing all 3 products.
And six, get the customer to sign a Liability Waiver.
It wasn’t even dry yet! Never thought any of them would hold that much weight.
That was the idea of the test... i.e. to test the thinsets while they were still wet! When your installing tiles on a ceiling the last thing you want is for them to start falling off within minutes of putting them up. Worse yet, having them fall off while your still standing under them installing additional tiles.
This might be a dumb question but why does it matter how much weight they can hold? When does a tile ever experience that much pulling force that it would need even more than 5 pounds of strength?
Heavy tiles maybe your doing 2'x4' the person wants it on the ceiling. Of course you (I atleast) would put a couple clips and maybe an extension pole in the middle just to be safe
@@bsmbB Yeah, I would definitely feel nervous letting them just hang there before it's set up completely.
Recently installed some 24x48 tiles. Granted I didn't install them on a ceiling, but you could. Each individual tile weighed 35lbs! (I'd be real nervous standing under a fresh unsupported installation.)😮
@@eltonnoway7864 Right, I'd also be just as nervous, which is why I'd always support each tile until the thinset sets up, in which case, why does this test matter?
No all set? Why not?
Lesson learned here ... TC is 170lb lite. 🤓
Tri lite>>>>
When you always where a hard hat in the shower
You can’t really say the test is equal the 3 buckets were tied differently, buckets were at different lengths you have to account for gravity, and lastly different suction cups, at this point to me it seems the test is more for which had a better suction cup then thinset in a test shouldn’t the testing be the same for all subjects only difference being the subject?
7:50 Language!!
Ardex.
No mapei ultra light ???? Criminal doing a test and not including mapei
You didn’t do them all the same the directional trawling was different on the first one that fell you did it with the long way of the tile instead of short like the other ones
A gallon of UK water weighs 10lbs!
Not wearing a hard hat is crazy haha
Non sag*
I’ll be willing to bet you mixed X77 wrong if you mixed them all to a non day consistency. ARDEX thunders only require 2 minutes of mixing. If you over or under mix it, it messes up the chemistry and performance of the product. I’ll be willing to bet this is why it failed first. You can’t change chemistry or all bets are off. This site needs to learn how yo demo products according to the manufacturers instructions which they go outside of a lot on here.
X77 gains strength over time as it’s an engineered cement product. The fact that it gave way first only means it was the most trowable still and the others had begun to stiffen already.