Contemplative Vision: Thomas Keating & Richard Rohr in Dialogue
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- Опубліковано 8 лис 2021
- Presented by Contemplative Outreach, this is from an enrichment weekend by Fr. Richard Rohr and Fr. Thomas Keating, recorded Sept. 29, 2007 in Houston, TX.
This dialogue is a delightful exchange covering topics such as the levels of consciousness, how you could be a saint on each of these levels, non-duality through the eyes of both Eastern and Christian spirituality, how unity and diversity can exist together because there is no separation from God, the image of the womb of God as a metaphor of creation, how there’s no longer sacred space but sacred time, and how contemplative prayer is an access into interior silence from which one can experience non-duality and much more.
For the complete listing of all talks from this event, visit the playlist at • Contemplative Vision: ... .
Contemplative Outreach, which Fr. Thomas helped found, is at www.contemplativeoutreach.org. It promotes and supports the practice of Centering Prayer.
The Center for Action and Contemplation, which Fr. Richard founded, is at www.cac.org. It works to address the deep need for the integration of both action and contemplation.
These two wonderful human beings are why I returned to the Christ path as my primary spiritual discipline.
Just like biblical and historical evidence proves that jesus and his apostles were vegatarians biblical and historical evidence also proves that the trinity, atonement, original sin and hell are very late misinterpretations and are not supported by the early creed hence its not a part of Christianity I pray that Allah swt revives Christianity both inside and out preserves and protects it and makes its massage be witnessed by all people but at the right moment, place and time
The secret text of the Bible says ye shall know them by their fruits
So too that I say to my christian brothers and sisters be fruitful and multiply
Best regards from a Muslim [ line of ismail ]
Do you believe it is a sin to use birth control
I am a Christian. It seems to me that the Muslims,the Jews and the Christians are really closer to each other than to any other religion. We are all Monotheists. We would do well to know. One another, accept one another and love one another. The disciple of Jesus, called John, wrote in one of his three letters "God is Love." Would that be your definition
of Allah?
is Love.
@@jeanhounsell4199 Yes!
@@jeanhounsell4199 Well said
Fantastically illuminating . Praise God
Father Rohr always deep,always touching and thoughtful. Father Thomas Keating was wise and warm. His greatest eloquence was his presence.
😢Does not Brother Laurence have something to say that is pertinent to this whole conversation?
Presence was a gift from both. I wonder what Fr.Keating daily spiritual practice was. Anyone Centering prayer?
Real Christians. Real Lights
Just like biblical and historical evidence proves that jesus and his apostles were vegatarians biblical and historical evidence also proves that the trinity, atonement, original sin and hell are very late misinterpretations and are not supported by the early creed hence its not a part of Christianity I pray that Allah swt revives Christianity both inside and out preserves and protects it and makes its massage be witnessed by all people but at the right moment, place and time
The secred text of the Bible says ye shall know them by their fruits
So too that I say to my christian brothers and sisters be fruitful and multiply
Best regards from a Muslim ( line of ismail )
Fr Thomas was a great Church thinker in recent times- clearly visible here in his clarity in this discussion. "Love itself is a movement towards no duality".
Just like biblical and historical evidence proves that jesus and his apostles were vegatarians biblical and historical evidence also proves that the trinity, atonement, original sin and hell are very late misinterpretations and are not supported by the early creed hence its not a part of Christianity I pray that Allah swt revives Christianity both inside and out preserves and protects it and makes its massage be witnessed by all people but at the right moment, place and time
The secret text of the Bible says ye shall know them by their fruits
So too that I say to my christian brothers and sisters be fruitful and multiply
Best regards from a Muslim [ line of ismail ]
So glad to hear the words, "God, organically connected to Her creation" 💕🕊️🌏🕊️
Just like biblical and historical evidence proves that jesus and his apostles were vegatarians biblical and historical evidence also proves that the trinity, atonement, original sin and hell are very late misinterpretations and are not supported by the early creed hence its not a part of Christianity I pray that Allah swt revives Christianity both inside and out preserves and protects it and makes its massage be witnessed by all people but at the right moment, place and time
The secred text of the Bible says ye shall know them by their fruits
So too that I say to my christian brothers and sisters be fruitful and multiply
Best regards from a Muslim ( line of ismail )
the experience of two catholic priests sharing a nondual spirituality even within a church that inevitably is dual, and recognizing the contradictions, is a sign of Jesus revealing a needed approach to live in the world as a dream or illusion, and knowing we are One in God Who we never left.
Do you mean, who never left us?
@@grmalinda6251
yes, that is the right answer. God never left, it's impossible.
What it means is that these men are not unique but simply following in their own made up God’s made up doctrine…and whilst believing they are special are simply right there in step with Satan at the fall with their slimy question…”Did God REALLY say?”. Read Gods written Word to know God. Look to God and turn from the self focused sinful self.
Fr. Keating not only beautifully embodies the non dual contemplative wisdom but he's also radiating amazing compassion and love in every answer.
@@rumblebee5133 Yours' is really lovely comment. I just posted this above, before reading yours: ''Father Rohr always deep,always touching and thoughtful. Father Thomas Keating was wise and warm. His greatest eloquence was his presence.'' I couldn't put my finger on what Father Keating had, but he had something. You said it: humility, which in itself is the teaching. It's like watching Thomas a Kempis's Imitation of Christ in action.
@@rumblebee5133 I have a soft spot for Rohr. I just read a few blogs,both Catholic and
Protestant, upset at what they term the "Eastern mysticism" of Father Keating and Richard Rohr. But I can't see it that way. When you read Thomas a Kempis, or even touch on Rhine or Spanish mystics, let alone the Desert Fathers, you feel they are rediscovering a teaching deep within early Christianity. Also Rohr is a Franciscan, a kind of lived practiced in line with Saint Francis's life. I think the dualistic thinking,as he stresses, is something I think we do suffer from,and I even had to check how more "orthodox" viewed the contemplative teachings of both Fathers (a dualistic reflex). Father Keating,however, I never initially got. But then I realised he was careful, caring, calm. He was wise. He taught, not merely by words. Even Rohr's tone changes in front of Father Keating. He leaves behind the showman- and he is talented at that. And has student-like reverence for the old Trappist monk. If Christianity survives in the West, it will have to engage with this tradition. A click on UA-cam shows how many are into yoga, zen buddhism,meditation. Bible-thumping Christianity isn't any longer attractive.
@@rumblebee5133 You're so right about that "liminal space". We lived before this technology, and we can see how swift big business and government acted. Uproar like a wand turns on the people's mind. Where there's screaming, I,personally, can't go. Good humble teachers,as you noted, aren't always easy to find. But Father Keating was certainly in tune with himself. Rohr has worked in prisons and he has videos talking to recovering alcoholics. He said something: "I used to live on a street where alcoholics used to sit and drink. We were friends..." He said it in a way free of condescension,and that room just relaxed,and opened up. It was the teaching in practice. Not just words: "Jesus will save you!" But wisdom, and healing....perhaps pointing the way to Jesus,if that's for you. Rohr has seen a lot. But he dosen't always say it to every audience. He's trying to get this wisdom out about the dangers of dualistic thinking. That mind that dances around the head, those thoughts,like an unwanted advert, that intrude into our silence. Tich Nahat Hanh,another friend of Thomas Merton, was also trying to do it within his tradition. And the popularity of his message among former Christians is clear to see with his recent passing and funeral online.
YES!!
Dziekuję za słowa życia
What a wonderful discussion by these 2 pillars of the contemplative way of Spirit. I was blessed by this video...thank you for sharing this. Peace.
Yes, we are still trapped! It's one day at a time! Anguish, pain and addiction pushed me to the contemplative heights but "we are not saints. We seek spiritual growth rather than spiritual perfection"! quote from the AA Big Book!
Good stuff. Thanks
Just like biblical and historical evidence proves that jesus and his apostles were vegatarians biblical and historical evidence also proves that the trinity, atonement, original sin and hell are very late misinterpretations and are not supported by the early creed hence its not a part of Christianity I pray that Allah swt revives Christianity both inside and out preserves and protects it and makes its massage be witnessed by all people but at the right moment, place and time
The secred text of the Bible says ye shall know them by their fruits
So too that I say to my christian brothers and sisters be fruitful and multiply
Best regards from a Muslim ( line of ismail )
A great retelling of our story
......
So grateful to be here.......
Pete
Thank you so much for this video. It's so rich and profound. We, as a western christians, should try to rescue the semitic, non-dual root of our faith.
Just like biblical and historical evidence proves that jesus and his apostles were vegatarians biblical and historical evidence also proves that the trinity, atonement, original sin and hell are very late misinterpretations and are not supported by the early creed hence its not a part of Christianity I pray that Allah swt revives Christianity both inside and out preserves and protects it and makes its massage be witnessed by all people but at the right moment, place and time
The secred text of the Bible says ye shall know them by their fruits
So too that I say to my christian brothers and sisters be fruitful and multiply
Best regards from a Muslim ( line of ismail )
This message, is the only one that can/will save humanity of annihilating ourselves and the earth. Thomas and Richard are prophets, Pray that God give them the wisdom and strength to continue educating us the the true nature of God.
find inner life, it is like it is and it’s ok, simple and healing freedom 🙏
This is an absolutely wonderful opportunity to have two great pillars of the contemplative life together at the same time talking in like mindedness. A true blessing.
Just like biblical and historical evidence proves that jesus and his apostles were vegatarians biblical and historical evidence also proves that the trinity, atonement, original sin and hell are very late misinterpretations and are not supported by the early creed hence its not a part of Christianity I pray that Allah swt revives Christianity both inside and out preserves and protects it and makes its massage be witnessed by all people but at the right moment, place and time
The secred text of the Bible says ye shall know them by their fruits
So too that I say to my christian brothers and sisters be fruitful and multiply
Best regards from a Muslim ( line of ismail )
Whew! Like WOW! With Out Words. Blessings
So great to have two of my spiritual gurus in such an interesting and illuminating discussion. Thank you!
Mine too. Couldn’t agree more. Loves this.
Dont like the word guru's
They would not wish to be called this either. Authentic leaders..."still be humanly problematic "...very good comment.
Brilliance again. God bless you both. We have been blessed by your company💖
This very video is the image that reminds us of the unity & union we have with God - as Fr Keating put it. Bless both these amazing individual diversities - and all individual diversities - watching and celebrating this diaLogos
This is from 2002 I think and RR’s team was amazing considering the way they supported these two great men and the community that came to hear them.
What a blessing! Thank you both. Love you so much!
Wonderful to be able to listen to these two real teachers! Thank you for posting! 🙏
Yes! Two powerhouses of thought, wisdom and understanding! Definitely my favorites!
Oh this is wonderful! Thank you very much.
We need a new set of children's books based on these lectures (written at their level of course). 🙂
❣️👍🏻
Yes, yay! Dyu write? Draw or paint? Do it, please! 💕💕💕
@@lynnrussell467 I have a friend who does and is willing...
“The nonduality of love…”
Yesss
Thank you.💐🤗
What a wonderful prifilege to hear this conversation. Unfortunately, the feedback was distracting.
Keating… The Master. Will we ever have another? ‘… the inability to be in awareness of Gods presence at all times is a type of low grade suffering…’
Thank you that was enlightening . to you both ,
I believe that one of the main reasons why so many us turned to the East for our spiritual paths is precisely because we saw the dualistic approach as a failure. We needed non-duality and turned to where we saw it.
Perhaps, many of us are returning to Christianity because we see the non-dual teaching that exists within the Christian framework.
Stages start somewhere
💗
💞🌺🙏🕯
Just like biblical and historical evidence proves that jesus and his apostles were vegatarians biblical and historical evidence also proves that the trinity, atonement, original sin and hell are very late misinterpretations and are not supported by the early creed hence its not a part of Christianity I pray that Allah swt revives Christianity both inside and out preserves and protects it and makes its massage be witnessed by all people but at the right moment, place and time
The secred text of the Bible says ye shall know them by their fruits
So too that I say to my christian brothers and sisters be fruitful and multiply
Best regards from a Muslim ( line of ismail )
Either of these would be great with J Peterson.
You must consider there is no I or me to take in the flowers
Thank you so much for posting this. What a wonderful teaching before Christmas. May I ask where in Houston this conference held?
This enrichment weekend was part of the Annual Conference of Contemplative Outreach held at the West Houston Omni Hotel Sept. 26 - 30, 2007.
this stage thing they mention - is that in a book or in an accessible talk from the conference in which they spoke here?
Stages of consciousness, Richard Rohr, yes, spoke and wrote of them... As a newbie, i can say yes without knowing the title of book or talk...
Just start by signing in to CAC and read what they say and do. Next step is the books, readings, talks that are freely available.
What do you mean by non conceptual view of God Richard?
Only God can be one. He created spiritual/relational realm. Triangle is 2d but with The Holy Virgins fiat, became 3d. We can enter into a pyramid but we dont even have the capacity to see a triangle with 3d eyes. Only with the eyes of understanding can we enter ...??
Interesting conversation.
I wish, though, that Richard Rohr could free himself from his addiction to careless sweeping statements. Are Catholics priests really a unique set of blinkered 'right' men? I think that there are plenty of others. I have an open ear to religious people of a vast range of styles, and I have never, ever, encountered an Evangelical Protestant who though that the gulf between us and the Divine was fundamentally bridged by our moral behavior.
Consciousness is not a stage
Consciousness isnt an object....stage doesnt care,it s' an object...yet' thats not the point, the Point is 'the words" been spoken💚 from christ consciousness...
Consciousness is an awareness an awakening. We have to begin somewhere
Levels of consciousness. Then. Levels of maturity of consciousness, beginning right here where we are now
Those things you don't understand, fewer people will believe your pretence that you understand is easily seen ,obviously you have to make living ,but this deciet is not what God wants of religious, but truth doesn't anybody actually believe it matters to actually belive in god, nothing I see or hear on the Internet could possibly be said by anyone who believes in god but only in thier own ego and bank balance Christians engage with thepoor weak and broken and they do not promote themselves and vain ego.God dwells with the poor oppressed weak and broken, whilst the religious on know the rich and privileged, intellectuals, and those not in adversity, an abomination in the eyes of god
Your all sitting on a stage . Sounds silly 😜
Silly that some billionaire assigned a TurningPoint troll to create another fake profile & dog these kind & farseeing souls. You helpfully just amplify their point, not Charlie Kirk's work to divide & conquer for Koch.
CONSCIOUSNESS IS CREATED ITS GOOD OR BAD we program children. Most here are self righteous not fully conscious
@@jimmykeating2029 You'd know, i guess.
You can't even spell *you're correctly. Who's the silly one?
Rohr clearly has no idea what morphogenic fields are or what the maharishi effect is. Personally, I can literally feel evil in certain areas and holiness in others like Lourdes. Being around people in loving prayer vs being around violence will give a sense of the sacred space immediately.
No beard no listen sorry my friend
Why beard?
Looksist, are we?
Hairy face? = worthy of listening and my attention?
Personally, as a woman, i prefer to see mans face, skin, smile and sparkle in eyes...
Hairy face is like hiding, is it not? Hiding in plane sight
There is absolutely no point to the church, the religious, or any Christian unless the gi out tomorrow share their water food company love whatever with those who have not that's Jesus teaching and holy communion with him body and blood emphatically, this is intellectual avoidance and distraction of gods will which is righteous action and not sitting about talking.
What are you trying to say
@@theguyver4934 the point is for 300,000 years our species has accepted and glorified a supernatural God who is undefined and un knowable ,inthe last 5000 years since writing began people have pretended to know God ,try reading what they have written about a God the cant know, everything modern day self declared so called mystics and spiritualists say is recycled rubbish, they are in it for their iwn glory and money , true glory of God lasted 300,000 years by every culture every where in the world right up until the first intellectual decided he knew God ,and the fakers and deceiver s have been copying ever since, true glory of God is knowing that we c
Ant know God or his reality
As Jung pointed out, in Asia consciousness seems to be evolving more on the collective level. There is less emphasis on Individuality. Hence why Asians developed philosophies of "non dual" awareness. In the West, there is more focus on the ego and Individual development. The East needs to evolve more in the egoic direction and the West needs to evolve more in the collective direction. I experienced a direct non dual encounter with the Divine and my Individuality remained fully intact.