How to Escape Lorelei's Game Ending Softlock
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- Опубліковано 8 лип 2017
- In the Gen 1 Pokemon games, it's possible to set up a cruel softlock. But could there perhaps be a way to get out of it...?
Crystal's video: • Pokemon R/B/Y - How to...
Gen 1 Accuracy and 1/256 Glitch explanation: bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wi...
Let's Play Channel: / @pikaspreyblue
Twitter: / pikasprey
Thanks to my friend Trevor for helping go over all of the math in this video with me :3 (Even though he doesn't even like Pokemon...)
================================
Some music from this video was made by some other UA-cam users. Check them out here:
(8-Bit end card music) Bulby: / mrbulbamike
Kunning Fox: / kamikadze333666
Apollo Justice arrangements were made by me. - Ігри
This was supposed to come out weeks ago, and was meant to hold you all over until the next big video.
So much for that. (◕ ‿ ◕✿ )
Pikasprey Yellow Couldn't you use a TAS program to get the right frame for the moves to miss 20 times in a row? Therefore successfully pulling this off and being able to record it.
Pikasprey Yellow omfg, your humor is fucking on spot! i love you!
Pikasprey Yellow Oh and it's not only moves, but items too. The master ball has a 100% catch rate. But it's programmed the same way a 100% accuracy move is. So your master ball can fail 1/256 times.
That depends on if there is a "right frame" for it to miss.
Pikasprey Yel5bmnknmnbmnmmbnnbnmbnbmbnmb m. pop99th 98 99th 99999low
1 in 68 quindecellion chance.
SO YOU'RE SAYING THERE'S A CHANCE.
a very small chance, smaller than a Planck in meters length.
Planck is the smallest thing in the universe by the way
Why is this me when I ask a girl out
@@applesauce4748 why did you have to preemptively steal my joke :(
whats a quindecillion
multiply the average time per rage used with 68 quindecillion and you get how much time you'd need on average to get 20 misses
Imagine getting Rage to miss 19 times in a row and then it hits the 20th time
sounds like a major oof.
Mc *F*
I would literally start crying
FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCK
F
Pokemon Red and Blue came out on September 28, 1998, and data suggests that a total of 31.38 million copies have been sold. If every copy of the game ever sold were put in this loop, and attempted to get out every five seconds since the games came out 22.5 years ago, odds are none of them would've missed more than six times by now.
So if the Red from all the gen 1 timelines were all sinultaneously put in the Rage-Sleep void with Lorelei, it would take about 90 years for maybe one of them to accidentaly break them free?
By this point our old man would have already spent a lifetime with, and likely married, the Elite 4 member just to out of nowhere wake up in a Pokémon Center with only him and her knowing what the hell happened
That's wild
What's really shocking about this comment is that Pokémon Red and Blue came out nearly 23 years ago. *cries in old*
@@ale-xsantos1078 Thats not how math works. You can't just multiply 22.5 by 4.
This is why I said "about 90"
Its a estimative, not a precise result
My main point was that eventually one Red would have broken free but it would have taken a lifetime with Lorelei there and afterwards he'd be a 10 years old boy again, talk about akward
@@ale-xsantos1078 90 isn't even close to the right answer. That's like saying the Sun is about 5 miles away.
Just to add to his statement about Rage only having 20 PP, if you used a PP Max to bring Rage's PP up to the max of 32, you would have roughly the same odds of encountering 20 shiny Pokemon in a row.
sounds pretty do able tbh
@@Potatomaster1005 I could probably do it by the end of the night people are just pussies fr
Why stop there? Why not go in with Rage at 32 PP on *a full team of six*?
Forget 32 times in a row. Try 192.
@@ArbronStill not a true softlock, funny enough.
"..The point is that I proved someone wrong on the Internet.."
I'm subscribing just because this is the most honest statement I've ever seen on UA-cam.
this is my favourite comment In history
Ditto
I must prove him false I must beat the softlock 50 seconds later yes I beat the game
same for me, lol
same here, most perfect way to say it
Dewgong! I've come to bargain!
lol, I did not know that primape was the sorcerer supreme.
Up you go.
this comment is fucking gold.
oh my fucking god. I laughed so hard from this.
This should be pinned lmfao 🤣🤣
I've looked into 68 quindecellion futures
How many do we escape from?
1
"But why did you count them all"
"Um"
But there is one way we can escape them all.
The sweet release of death.
@@completelyoriginalname2701 NOOO!!!
wait we can grind exp with fish!
@@morgankasper5227 old rod is an optional item
Despite all my rage, I'm still just primeape on a stage.
underrated
Underrated
UNderrated
UNDerrated
UNDErrated
The second you said “If the move hits”
I knew it was going to be the 256 glitch
Krystal Army yeah I wasn’t sure but then he said “if it hits” and it was like fireworks went off in my head
The 256 glitch is actually noticeable. Speedrunners occasionally run into the glitch (I mean, they spend thousands of hours practicing) and it can often kill a run, by missing a single hit on a 100% accuracy move.
So imagine being a speedrunner. Let's say you're making INSANE pace, and you are all but guaranteed to surpass the WR by minutes...
You run into the 256 glitch...
No worries! It just happened once. I am still alive and far ahead.
You run into it again...
What are the odds? Extremely rare. Probably nobody has had it occurred twice in a row...No matter, you can still beat the world record...
18 times later...
Newspaper: Speedrunner found dead in apartment after an apparent "rage quit".
I dont think it was a glitch. 100% accuracy moves should have an extremely small chance to miss, to represent miracles in an active battle. I think it was intentional regardless if it was changed in later gens.
@@shanemccausland958 It was confirmed as unintentional
@@SPZ-gv2on It would fit with the game if it was intentional and I think they should add it to future games.
Think about it. 100% accuracy means there is no hope or chance for your pokemon to dodge it. In a battle I would imagine even the most heat seeking and accurate moves would have some miracle of a chance to avoid. Feats of great will and effort on your pokemon or the opponents. 1/256 "glitch" its perfect for this.
I live for insane calculations like these. That fact that there's even the most minuscule of chances to escape this fascinates me.
Me too!
I was gonna thumb this up, but it's at the max value of 255, so I need it to stay there so that Rage will miss. :^)
The calculation is based on the assumption of truly random numbers, though. Exploiting flaws in the RNG (which, admittedly, is quite hard to do when running the game on an unmodified physical game boy) would allow you to get out of this with nowhere near a quindecillion attempts.
@@neilburgin8893 How would you do that?
Fun fact: you're more likely to win the Powerball jackpot 5 times in a row than miss 20 Rages in a row.
Absolute nonsense.
@@vaddix9980
~1 in 10^42 Powerball 5 times in a row
~1 in 10^49 Miss rage 20 times in a row
Do your math, hun
hun is wild😭 the math is crazy tho
The hardest part of becoming a programmer is looking back on childhood games like this and learning the abysmal AI behind what had been your greatest achievements.
Seems like GameFreak never learned a thing from Gen 1 lmao
Most games from this era are bug/glitch ridden nightmares. Pokemon just happens to be more obvious about it.
@@ianfinrir8724paper mario 64 comes to mind, being somewhat stable on the surface only to get drop kicked by glitch hunters who found an ungodly number of sequence breaks
@@Mewtwo_150 You can (and should) criticize GameFreak, but their programming is LEAGUES better now. I mean, it should be, considering they aren't a company near bankruptcy like they were while making Gen 1, but still. I'd argue Gen 1 is infamous for being a coding mess BECAUSE all the other games have good programming for the most part.
*Someone's voice: Don't run away!*
Obviously that voice is inside Red's head as his sanity slowly crumbles. It's all he has now.
Eventually, Red stopped thinking.
@@TheMentisGroup holy moly is that a mf jojo refrence?
guy A: "i'm so lucky! i just encountered 12 shiny pokemon in a row!"
guy B: "yea... my primeape is still stuck raging against lorelei"
guy A: "Hey, this Eiffel Tower just popped up from nothing!"
guy B: "still stuck raging..."
www.exitmundi.nl/exitmundi.htm
ImaginaryHuman072889 OBJECTION , SHINIES DONT EXIST YET
ImaginaryHuman072889 those mons will be magikrap and rattatta
conchudo12345 You will break down, the immeasurable pain that will be unforgettable. Haunts you forever and ever.....
Zack Horker you start to struggle get down to one hp then your opponent hyper potions your Pokémon you break the game
I'm imagining Lorelei and Red trying to make conversation while this endless battle is going on.
"so... who's the toughest challenger you've faced so far?"
"actually, this kid Blue just came by and swept my team with a Venusaur-“
"WHAT"
@@thorgidogofthunderRed :but i picked the frog one
I remember lying in bed one night thinking about escaping the Lorelei loop, and realizing you could go back to the Big Bang and attempt it (in real time) all the way up to the present day and probably still not get it.
It genuinely gave me an anxiety attack.
Holy shit
If you went all the way back to the beginning of the universe and tried it every 40 seconds, you likely would have only gotten about 7 misses in a row
@@__8120 *heart rate intensifies*
Can you imagine this being Purgatory?
God: "You are not deserving of Hell, but to enter Heaven, you must earn it."
(Gameboy + cartridge with appropriate save file + infinite battery appears)
Everyone: "THIS is Purgatory? Then what could Hell possibly be?"
It is genuinely scary, but it also feels very funny that in this scenario one of the first things to exist in the universe was a copy of RBY with this specific save file ready to go.
@@MollyPowerslide Maybe that's what the whole "original sin" thing was really about.
“When am I ever going to use this math outside of school?” they said.
That One Pikachu Girl video games teaching maths they said it could never be done p.s I really like your pfp
Kyle Rothery Haha yeah, and thanks! I’ve had it forever, it’s custom made!💓
That One Pikachu Girl that’s awesome I love it so much it’s so cute I’d love to know who made it for you
I have never seen such determination and logic put into figuring out how to LOSE a battle. Kudos to you sir.
Losing the battle wouldn't be so bad. But here, even losing is impossible...
Losing the battle was only half the battle... Wait?
it is really impossible to win as it will just go on until someone quits and computers will never quit
having a pretty much impossibly small chance is definitely worse than it being actually impossible. it's like a shimmer of dream and hope being crushed by the terrible reality of probability.
Tries to escape the trap
Rage lands on the last PP point
Congratulations, you've learned Rage!
id just break the system
*learns Rage; this move has 100% accuracy with no Gen1 miss chance*
I'd take the 12 shinies rather than miss 20 rage
Not me lol. Gimme those 20 misses.
@Pixel *SHINY*
I want to get that shiny girafarig that I found once
I’d like some shiny Groudons. Preferably in a pickle jar.
CringeFire9 same.
Same.
😅
"The point is, I proved someone wrong on the internet."
LOL! That cracked me up!
Isn't that all that matters?
For Pikasprey, I couldn't imagine any less. :-)
Yeah that had me laughing too
Why did 690 people like your comment, and why am I one of them?
That phrase win me as a subscriber xD
I want to see a 24 hour stream of an AI attempting to miss rage 20 times in a row.
i bet it couldn't do it even in 24 million years
RNG manipulation is a thing, the computer would probably just figure out the right input buffers required to force all those misses.
Underrated comment
With Miss the Rage playing in the background throughout.
@@undefined6512 Or
Despite all my rage I'm still just a mankey in a cage
Trapped in a room with Lorelei? Thats seems not bad.
I GET It-
Red Vanderbilt Dont do this to the internet
Hello, Nurse!
I mean if you're character waits there for 8 years...
@@imaginaryboy2000 Christ
I have a soft lock. Remove the game cartridge and discard it. You will be unable to progress or go backward.
Retrieve the game cartridge from the trash. Problem solved
Softlock proposal #2
Take a sledge hammer and hit the cartridge for 20 minutes, then throw it in the trash.
@@AX-xi2pw Buy a new game.
@@farmerwithshotgun5166 aww man you put me in a bad situation here. So if buying a new game is a viable way out of a soft lock, the only way to truly soft lock the game is by making yourself incapable of every finishing any pokemon game. And since you can interface with the game in various different ways, (breathing or whatever) and since even with the lowest mental ability (RNG input) can finish the game after a certain amount of time. The only way to truly soft lock is for the player to die. But don't try this at home kids for the love of god
I think that's called a hard lock
pointless old video game topics are my favorite videos though
I loved psu. I miss it dearly.
It's actually playable right now.
i stopped keeping up with it a while ago because they still didn't have anything really public or playable after a number of years. I guess i should go check it out.
Last time I checked they have a lot of things working, things I know that are not working mostly boil down to rooms and everything that goes with them, I think there's some kind of storage thing but I don't know how to use it.
At least I am not alone, now to mario world dying saw by sliding
Hit or miss? I guess they
Miss 0.3891% of the time.
Huh
You are a horrible person.
You got a boyfriend? I bet he doesn't make a foolproof softlock!
Edit: *_immediate regret_*
You got a-
HAH
I can confirm this I have been stuck battling the dewgong since 1996 :/
It's been 25 years.
How far gave you gotten?
@@ciboria1 lorelei womb
@@prudenciomangaoangiii403 shut up
I guess you could say that method would be quite *rage* inducing.
XmodxgodX please stop.
Talk about needing anger management...
i think i'll give you guys a rest on the puns.
*gets on drums* Baton pass~
NO
To anyone who still doesn't understand how unlikely it is to miss Rage 20 times in a row:
The odds of winning the Powerball lottery are about 1 in 292 million. That's about 0.0000003%.
The odds of winning the Powerball lottery 5 times in a row is about 0.0000000000000000000000000000000000000000469%.
The odds of winning the Powerball lottery 5 times in a row are still about a million times greater than missing Rage 20 times in a row.
and a lot more beneficial
I wonder what the actual percentage is.
Actually, that "Rage misses every time" quirk only activates if the following conditions are met:
1. Rage has already been activated (and you can't change moves or use items, etc)
2. An evasion buff/debuff is in effect (like Double Team)
3. Rage misses due to the modified evasion check
Otherwise, if Rage misses, it has no effect on the accuracy of subsequent Rage moves. Seeing as how Dewgong will never use an evasion move in this battle, this quirk has no effect on the scenario.
An orgy of 0s
Sounds accurate.
The absolute best twist of the knife is something you almost mentioned when going over scientific notation - that the difference in E-notation is 2 orders of magnitude.
You're not just more likely to get 12 shinies in a row than escape. You are **100 times more likely to.**
EDIT: Thank God for comment chains. The actual factor is 16, not 100, but still - crazy odds.
actually 600 times, because the number at the beginning for the rage is 6, while the shiny one is 1
Not really. It would approximately be 100/6 = 16.67 times more likely (I went with 6 here since the original comment and you both used it rather than 6.8). You shouldn't mutiply there. Instead you should divide (probability of shiny-case over probability of rage-case) since 6 is the most significant figure for the probability of the rage-case.
@@lolreach1627 ah ok I don't do math
@@lolreach1627 yeah that tracks. Apologies then - I skimmed the actual numbers. Still though - a factor of 16 is nothing to scoff at.
I love how you are trapped by a combination of three glitches, but you *could* escape by the existence of a fourth glitch
Gen 1 games are so broken…
None of the three things keeping the player trapped are glitches.
@@jacquespaughtwell the awful trainer AI is
@@IneptRat No, it isn't. The AI is working exactly as intended. Programming oversights are not the same as glitches.
@@jacquespaught what? glitches...are programming oversights lmao
@@nintendompower Yes but not all oversights are glitches
What you do when you have to return a rented copy of the game
that is just plain evil
Srihari krishna gonna do it
@Oh yeah yeah Imagine doing this in the 90s, without internet.
Just keep it instead
Open the cartridge and change the circuit board thing from another game, that's how we did it when we wanted to keep rented n64 games
I love how this guy just sounds like he hates his life in all these videos by torturing himself with pointless traps and grinding XD
"I'm a cool guy. I've got a girlfriend!"
Probably my favorite pre-battle trainer speech of all time.
And for some reason he and his "girl friend" are standing several meters apart acting like they don't know the other one is there XD and she says "I wish my boyfriend was as tough as you!" when he's standing right the f*ck there lmao
@@Bro-cx2jc F to our fallen brother.
shorts are comfortable and easy to wear. your argument is invalid
"Hi! I like shorts! They're comfy and easy to wear!"
*The laws of the universe mean nothing.* Bow to the Shorts Youngster!
Ahem...but yes, that's my favorite intro personally, has been since the first time I played this silly and fun game.
Coincidentally/incidentally, my favorite (or at least one of, anyway, if not the) defeated quote happens to come from a Youngster as well, as I recall. (Or was it a Bug Catcher? Damn...) "Done like dinner!" It's the stupidest joke. Why do I laugh at it? I just can't help it.
@@plant7371 You're just Shellos, if I say so myself.
I watched my friend run into a shiny Pidgey in gen 2, kill it, and then he ran into another shiny pidgey directly afterwards. Their were no cheats used. It was the luckiest thing I’ve ever seen in my life. The odds of that happening are sooooooo low.
It's 1 in 4096 so 2 in 8192 not low at all.
@@vaddix9980That's not how probabilty works...
A 1 in X chance event happening twice in a row has a 1 in X^2 chance, not 2 in X.
This means that the chance for two shinies in a row is about 1/67108868, or about a 0.0000015% chance.
@@Adirbal Woosh
@@vaddix9980 You simply stated a wrong probability, there is literally no joke there.
@@Adirbal The joke is you thought O was serious.
Again. Wooosh.
In Yellow Version back when I was a kid my haunter was frozen from Lorelei I beat Bruno but only had two pokemon left had no healing items and when I went to Agitha I got her down to her last pokemon (gengar) with my non-frozen pokemon. Gengar took that one out leaving me with my frozen haunter. Gengar kept spamming hypnosis but because my haunter was frozen it would never work (in gen 1 frozen pokemon would not thaw out naturally) so I was stuck in an endless loop.
Riperoo younger you
riperoo?
darkwiz428 he's saying RIP
Speaking of haunters, I actually caught a shiny Gastly in Pokemon Platinum a few weeks ago. It was the first shiny I encountered in one of the Gen 4 games (not including the Gyarados from G/S/C/HG/SS).
I still haven't beat Pokemon Red yet though....
Nobody counts the Lake of Rage Red Gyarados. But my first one was a rattata in Crystal
I wanna see someone create a room filled with computers all soft resetting at max speed, programmed to do this stunt
That would be a world record
"The most useless luck achievement on history"
Depending on how it's set up, it might either be impossible or exceedingly easy to make it happen.
The pokemon games aren't truly random, rather the numbers are generated based on the game clock. So if the setup will always load and perform the same actions, it will NEVER get through the fight.
On the other hand, given enough time, you could probably calculate a frame perfect manip that will generate 20 misses in a row. It would be funny to watch the computer bonk into walls, turn around and walk in silly patterns before talking to Lorelei at the exactly right moment and missing 20 straight rages, but it could possibly happen.
TAS
@ooOmegAaa u can run then parallelly with few computers and enough RAM. To sum up, u just need to cheat to miss lol
Computers (or operators of course) could use luck manipulation by finding the exact frames to input for the 20 misses. By yourself though you may as well just savestate each time.
@ooOmegAaa not computers, but programs. you forget a compyuter can have more than one process running at a time. if each of those computers run 100 emulators then the result would happen on average within 1 year
New drinking game:
Take a shot every time Pikasprey says "pp" or any number
Better drinking game:
Take 1 shot every time Rage fails to miss 20 times in a row. If someone dies of alcohol poisoning, another person must take up the challenge.
This would deplete the entire population of the Earth before missing Rage 20 times in a row would reach its chance of success.
Hell, the sun would become a red giant and kill us all on its own before that would theoretically happen.
Ooh, I have an idea for a better softlock like this, that works against some other trainers as well. Just save in Lorelei's chamber with a frozen Pokémon as the only Pokémon in your party, and make sure to toss out any Full Restores, Full Heals, or Ice Heals before you do. Lorelei's Dewgong will indefinitely spam Rest per usual, and in Gen 1 you'll never unthaw without getting hit by a Fire-type move besides Fire Spin (which it doesn't have any), the opponent using Haze (which it also doesn't have), or using one of the aforementioned items. This also works for instance against Lance's Dragonite (though in that case since it isn't his first Pokémon, you need to bring another Pokémon and have it faint after using the move that takes out the Pokémon right before his Dragonite via recoil damage (burn and poison wouldn't work, since in Gen 1 if a burned or poison Pokémon faints a Pokémon it won't take damage from the status condition)) or even against Pokémon that don't know any damaging moves at all, such as Blue's Abra in the battle with him in Cerulean, or Sabrina's Abra in Yellow.
Sure but you actually can't escape those. So there is no point trying.
This could take till all the stars burn out but theoretically there is a glimmer of hope.
Ah yes, getting help from Gen 1's most evil mechanic to inflict further despair, I like your plan!
Assuming that it takes 30 seconds to reload, start the battle, use rage, play out the animations, and check whether you hit or miss (n.b. it doesn't, but I'm being generous) the expected time it would take to reach that many trials before one of them gave you the desired result would be ~1.3E42 years (and this is just the average!). To put that into perspective, the universe is only ~1.4E10 years old. So while it is theoretically possible to escape this scenario (and this is also assuming perfect RNG, which the game boy most certainly doesn't have), it is for all practical purposes still impossible. Realistically the hardware would fry, or the player would die of old age before escaping.
Seraaron Legend
But what if they get it first go
lmfao
Yes, and even if you dedicate a whole family heritage to completing this task / maintaining the electronics so that they stay operative. Sadly, if the expansion of the universe keeps accelerating at this rate, space and time will rip apart within another 2.2E10 years. That would mean that the total age of the universe from start to finish, is still less than half the time it would take to get Primeape out of the elite 4.
"That would mean that the total age of the universe from start to finish, is still less than half the time it would take to get Primeape out of the elite 4."
That's the understatement of the year, it's roughly one 3E31th of the time it would take.
If my math holds up, assuming 5 second turns and ignoring the time between a failed attempt and starting a new one, the average person would need in excess of 10^31 years to escape this softlock. Now, the problem with that is that this is about 1000 times longer than the time required for every star in every galaxy in the universe to fall into their central supermassive black holes. Indeed, the only stars left in the universe at that point would be stray brown dwarves. The variance here is insane as well, so even the smallest stroke of "bad" luck could have even the black holes begin to decay while you await your escape. Protons themselves will be falling apart, and yet that Dewgong will remain staring, taunting your soul through the eons with the promise of eventual escape.
I think I'd rather just get stuck on Cinnabar Island thanks
Actualy, nothing much is happening at the cetner of the galaxy atm. All the stars in the region are in mostly stable orbits, and exept of the occesional 'snack', the central black hole is not up to anything.
This might change when we collide with Andromeda though.
I'm not actualy sure that this amount of time is enough for supermassive black holes to evaporate though... that amount if time is truely stupidly long.
Marik Zilberman Actually, when Andromeda inevitably collides with our milky way, the chances of any celestial object (including earth) essential to our lives colliding with something in Andromeda is... _astronomically_ low.
(I'm so sorry for that terrible pun)
lol!
Omar Hegazy that’s not the point. The point is, that statistically you will need that much time.
"but little did you know, I had nothing better to do today than find the most useless piece of Pokémon trivia ever" that line made my day. Thanks for finding useless things to make jokes about XD
It might still be impossible depending on how the game's RNG works. If the RNG can't be manipulated into ever producing 20 misses in a row, then it's still impossible.
Yah. It seems unlikely the game's RNG has a recurrence time long enough to contain 20 256s in a row.
nah, it's possible, the rng of the game factors many things, pressing random buttons on the gameboy probably the change the outcome of some things since an interrupt routine is caused because of it, possibly changing the "randomness".
You can manipulate accuracy, with the correct inputs, you can make moves like Horn Dill hit 100% of the time so I assume doing the opposite is also possible.
Well, technically, since you can wait as long as you need for because of the "regained health", "fast asleep" and "woke up" textboxes, you could theoretically get infinite RNG rolls each time and thus eventually get one where it misses.
"some person"
shows Crystal_
That's not just "some person"
exactly
Dionicio3 King_Of_Skiddos Maybe not "some person" from YOUR perspective, but to me and the VAST majority of people, it's just some absolutely worthless nobody who could literally die and an extreme few people would give a damn at all.
Everyone is technically just "some person".
More people know who he is than this guy.
Shouldn't it be either "a person" or "some people"?
And then we get into to argument of whether or not functional impossibility is equivalent to literal impossibility.
With safestates and or RNG manipulation it becomes trivial to TAS though.
And I think it should be functionally impossible even with TAS to call it trully impossible
If the sun will go out before you can finish a strat i think it counts as locked
This comment wins the internet
Literally, it's not, but functionally, it is.
Dubickimus but first we need to talk about *drumroll*
*drumroll*
*drumroll*
*P* *A* *R* *A* *L* *L* *E* *L*
*U* *N* *I* *V* *E* *R* *S* *E* *S* *!!!*
All this talk of softlocks reminds me of Chrono Trigger's beginning softlock where you remove Marle from the accessible areas of the game, thus freezing the story and preventing any progress. FIVE MINUTES INTO A NEW GAME. Man, I love retro games.
A fifth glitch actually makes this escape much more likely. According to the list of gen 1 glitches, if rage does miss in battle, its accuracy goes from 255/256 to 1/256 for the rest of the battle, meaning the chance of being able to lose is actually (1/256)((255/256)^19) which is much more likely then the original (1/256)^20
I feel like with these tricks, and a bit of Rom hacking the first gen games could be great puzzle games. You start with like 4 items and a pokemon and have to "un-softlock" yourself.
Jared White Well theres already a bunch of puzzles in-game, but i see what u did there
It's not even a pokemon game anymore just an escape-room challenge lol
i know this is an old comment but "pokemon firered vr missions" is similar to your premise :)
This man looked in the face of God, bit the fruit of knowledge, and moonwalked backward into hell
Before another goddamn guy says "old rod": 1:42
I absolutely love how broken Gen 1 is
well yeah I mean its engine is basically held together with scotch tape and hope.
Eric Lee I don’t think they expected people to break it like that. They were like, “okay, here’s the path, and the rules. Now go!” Not knowing people would be like, “Alright I’ll break every single thing.”
It's not that broke *looks at focus rage and sweats*
@@JoeTheHuman compared to x&y, which had an entire city you couldn't save in because it would ruin your save file. or ruby&sapphire, where calendar-based events would just stop after a certain amount of time.
but yeah, no, let's keep pretending red&blue are the buggiest pokémon games.
@thorgidogofthunder had no idea about the X and Y thing, that sounds pretty damn bad, thank god for online patches i suppose, but the ruby and saphire thing is not a bug, rather a hardware limitation, and on an aspect of the game that a whole lot of people including myself never touched
pikasprey
noun
1) a person who derives sexual gratification from their own pain or humiliation.
"the roles of pikasprey and mistress"
2) (in general use) a person who enjoys an activity that appears to be painful or tedious.
"what kind of pikasprey would take part in such an experiment?"
3) A spray for pikachus
I'm like number 255, so I'm sorry to say that in my case, your joke kinda missed the mark.
lol
Kinda sadistic?
@@mushroomhead3619 So, in conclusion, a Pikachu that likes to hurt itself because it simply likes too feel a potion burn his skin at it heals
When I was a kid I thought the guy in front of cerulean cave had a tall Afro.
Hah so did I.
Wait. HE DOESNT HAVE AN AFRO
This happened to me once by accident when I was little. I went to challenge the Elite Four with a Poliwrath that knew Rage and it freaked me out when the game was stuck. 😂 (Thankfully I saved before entering, though!)
Bruh.
"The important thing is, I PROVED SOMEONE WRONG ON THE INTERNET!"
there has to be one kid on this earth who got their first pokemon game, and missed tackle the first 10 times they used it
There was some speed runner who got 2 Gen 1 Misses [1/256 chance each] with Thrash into 3 Hit Confuse [1/2 chance] and hurt itself in confusion [1/2 chance]. Unlucky or what. Must have been some odds on that happenning at the same time.
Into the trash it would go.
I was that older kid who challenged them to battle with a level 100 Gengar and said "Stop hitting yourself" over and over again as they struggled to death.
That's why most teams ran a Dugtrio endgame. Dig was just too broken against ghosts with his speed.
I think you mean earthquake
A softlock from a design oversight... saved by another design oversight.
I feel sorry for the character in this video...imagine this: You're trapped in a room with a woman whom won't let you pass unless you win against her in a seemingly unwinnable pokémon battle. You can't go back the way you came since someone is barring the door and saying "Don't run away." at the same time he maniacally laugh. Your options are either bargain with Lorelei so she can actually use another pokémon instead of dewgong or outright let him pass or look at your Primeape and ask him to use Rage on yourself or itself to the point either you or Primeape itself faints and someone takes a pit on you and escort you out of this hellish-nightmare room. Or the 3rd option, just stare at Lorelei's ass until you pass out because you hadn't eaten for weeks.
Nice stuff.
@Shares 4ever The rules state to deposit key items. Why the game lets you do that is beyond me
At that point I'd probably just drown myself in the water
You could also attempt to force Primeape to miss if this was realistic.
@@danielwright873 I believe key items took part of your inventory space. So if you don't deposit some key items, you won't be able to hold as many other things
It doesn't matter if she uses another pokemon first lol you'll still have to fight dewgong eventually, the battle remains unwinnable no matter what
20 years later: Finally rage missed 20 times! It took me forever! *Gameboy crashes*
even though this hasnt happened i can feel the anger from another universe.
Not likely, the internal battery would had to be replaced way before then, so you would've had to start a new game anyway.
Unless you have soldering knowledge and keep the memory powered during the battery swap or use some expensive flash memory device which not many people know how or have the funds to do.
@@botterminator vbucks :)
@POO POOS r/woooosh
Maybe it's because im watching this at 5 am and sleep deprevation is getting to me, but this video not only made me anxious, but also completely horrified me. The thought of being stuck In some sort of infinite loop with seemingly no way to escape completely messed with my mind.
Atleast you're stuck with Lorelei
The pettiness of this is why I’m subscribed
"USELESS ANSWERS TO USELESS QUESTIONS!" this got you new subscriber hahaha
One important question: does the game's RNG actually function in such a way that it can miss 20 times in a row? Depending on how RNG was implemented, it may not be possible due to the game running through a preset list of "random" results, with no possible method of manipulating the RNG to allow for 20 misses in a row.
On the flip hand, if the RNG is manipulated by player input, a player aware of this could intentionally incur a miss every time in a TAS environment.
I feel like you'd still need to prove the RNG allows for 20 misses in a row in the first place before you can definitively say this escape is possible.
I don't know about the RNG of it, but i recall fairly often playing my copy of Red, that I would encounter situations where if i kept using the same move, it would miss consecutively til i used another. Don't know if it can be replicated, or if i'm just unlucky, But i recall getting a game over vs an oddish because all i had left on my charmeleon was rage, and when i kept using it, it kept missing, until i used struggle, and I recall it being the first time i'd ever seen the move myself.
Hello there GameChamp!
Notice me gamechamp senpai!!!!!!
Gen 1, being Gen 1, runs it's RNG based on a global timer that, as far as I can tell, starts when you boot up the game.
Or just have rage with 1 pp and then miss
then you struggle till you die
why is this so interesting??
kiffe22 it's something we like and his voice is so intresting? Or I don't know
It's because his voice and you also like math in the case of this video!
I know I hate the math clases about the odds, but then I CAME to watch a weird guy talking about the possibility to miss 20 attacks to scape from a ridicolous situation you put yourself into xD
I'm pretty sure there are other ways to get out of that situation if you consider probabilities like that to fit within the definition of "possible". Something like a cosmic ray hitting the electronics and changing the game state in an appropriate way is probably vastly more likely than rage missing 20 times in a row.
Hey, one problem I noticed about getting out of this soft lock: you assume the number generator in the first generation Pokémon games are truly random. Or most games for that matter. Most number generators are pseudo-random meaning they just call a function to generate a new random number, meanings there is a set order to the random numbers. To specifically prove you could get 20 misses in a row, you would also have to prove that either 1) the there is another RNG call between each attempt at attacking, or 2) there is a sequence in the RNG list of numbers that all would result in a missed attack 20 times in a row.
I enjoyed the video as always, have a great day!
I feel like the odds of somebody entering Lorelei's room under those conditions on accident are just as impossible as getting out. L
William Rees That's why this video is a *Tutorial*
William Rees yeah
I can actually make it alot easier. Gen 1 RNG is time based, so it would simply be a matter of Waiting the correct number of frames. A TAS could get out of it.
Isnt there also some shit with button inputs
there is some random ****** with button inputs that influences RNG, so you're right.
Hesusio TAS also stands for tool assisted superplay, in situations like that. But then that moves the question to if it's really superplay if you're losing on purpose
Tool Assisted Soft-Lockpicking
There. Happy?
tool asisted stupidity.
The video that started an entire genre. Good for you, Pikasprey.
I've encountered 2 shinies back to back on the old Emerald where shiny odds are always 8000+. It was Smergal, I thought red tail was the common color at the time because I encountered 2 in a row, but then every Smergal after that was green. I was still new to shiny at that point as I had only ever caught a shiny Wurmple.
The PeePee will not go down.
Karukami rolling man
THANK YOU!!!!
I scrolled down and read this just as he said that.
Now THAT would be a terrifying scenario. Oh wait, that's called Viagra.
peppy points
(lol nobody's gonna get the joke)
Anyone who missed rage 20 times
Buy a lottery ticket.
they will probably accidentally buy two tickets, accidentally eat the other one, scratch the other one, win the jackpot and while they're returning it have a violent fit of diarea crapping out the other ticket, looking at it and noticing that it's another jackpot that was printed accidentally, returning it and the lottery accepting both of them
Just use savestates bruh
?** or twenty
Being lucky once has no affect on being lucky again.
its easy to miss rage 20 times in an emulator.
I think Chuggaaconroy could probably pull off the escape. Don’t believe me? He did a Pokémon Crystal lp with intentions of using a Koffing on his team, and the first one he encountered was a SHINY one level below learning self-destruct. He did a Pokémon Emerald lp and caught Groudon at near max health with no status condition in a NEST BALL. He did an Earthbound lp and got two 1/128 drop items BACK TO BACK. For reference, you are twice as likely to find a shiny Pokémon as you are to have two consecutive 1/128 occurrences
With emulator savestates, you can save every time it hits, and reset whenever it misses. So the chance becomes 1/5120 (5120 is 20*256.)
It will always be the same if you use a savestate
Even then it's only a second or so more to just wait for it to attack again.
i already toyed with savestates when i had a few pokeballs left, always same result no matter the inputd
@@dudono1744 actually it's not always the same, at least not on generation 3.
i captured all legendaries using only one pokeball for each
@@dudono1744 the thing that remains is the move the enemy will use
Ive used that 1 hit ko move that I think lapras learns and you can totally get it to hit 100% of the time instead of the 25% I think it originally had. I think the enemy's next attack is decided before the player gets to make a decision, cause you can manipulate the next-next move your enemy chooses, but not the next.
Sorry for the confusing explanation, it's late and I'm dumb
By the way if every attempt at missing an attack (including reloading the game every time you missed) took only 1 second to accomplish, this feat would take on average 1.6*10^(55) times longer than the age of the Universe. So if you started at the instant of the Big Bang, you would, on average escape this softlock between once and twice before the heat death of the Universe occurred. AND that's IF the whole reloading thing took 1 second, which it doesn't.
I was thinking the same thing. I would consider it inescapable, because of the outright sidereal amount of time that this endeavor could take. Sure, you might get lucky and witness it during a human lifespan, but it's so ridiculously unlikely to happen...
This is assuming that every attempt that didn't work failed on the first try, isn't it? It could actually take far, far longer.
_bill lamook_ Bad news: They all got hit by lightning, floods and/or supernovae. What are the odds?
Imagine setting up 1 billion emulators only for the first fucking one to succeed.... Everything we know and understand would come crashing down.
and that considering that the rng permit that posibilty sience the rng are not truly randome, they do not have all posibility and such a remote posibility is most likely to be completly imposible even whit rng manipulation
I did this more than 17 years ago and still remember it. Someone tricked me by saying I had to beat the 4 league members with pokemon that are less than level 15 in order to get a Mew but ended up being stuck in an endless loop where the Dewgong kept healing itself. I remember spending alot of time but eventually found a way to get the Dewgong to attack me by continuously switching between pokemon. I spent >3 hours to try to save my game but I guess if you only have 1 pokemon, thats not a plausible way to get out of the loop.
Nice work bro, this is very comprehensive and deep.
The directions never stated how much PP Rage needed to have... It could be 1/20! Therefore, your odds are changed to 1/256 only... is this cheating?
Well it was never stated, if it was only 1 PP than yeah it would be a lot easier to have it miss, but I guess it's one of those rules that is assumed but not stated
Pikasprey's SoftLockPicking vids are usually him taking a loophole the challenge creator failed to check and exploit it until he escapes
Like gennie wishes you have to word your challenges very carefuly otherwise gennie or pikasprey will exploit it.
Another way would be to teach it a tm and erase rage with literally anything else
@@shaymarkham5801 1:43
So you're saying there is a chance?
you can deposit fising rods in gen 1
100th like!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I haven't seen this comment yet so I'll say it. "1 in 68 quindecillion". So you're saying there's a chance!?
TheMineralSaint So you're saying he already said that and you didn't watch the video till the end?
Whoosh
8:30 there's a small wording error : "if either of those things were to occur, the chances of them happening consecutively become lower each time"
*Once* a thing occurs, the chance of it happening another time *doesn't change* . Having a miss or a shiny 5 seconds before doesn't magically change your chances of it happening later.
The reduced chance only applies BEFORE the previous event occured. After it occured, occuring a second time has either the chance of happening one time... or zero, most of the time.
The chance gets lower not because of the game, but because thats how probability works, if i flip a coin twice the chances of it landing on heads consecutively is not 1/2, even though my coin is hard coded to land in head 50 percent of the time, there are 3 other cases where that does not happen, head and tails, tails and head, tails and tails. And therefore the chance is 1/4, one out of 4 possible scenarios.
@@omniscientcammaleon9477
Yeah, but *once it landed* the chances on the next try are either 0% or 50%. The coin won't drop on the good side 1 time out of 4 no matter the previous drop.
@@laplongejunior since we are talking consecutive, the previous drop still matter, since we are checking how possible it is to get head and head, not head alone
@@omniscientcammaleon9477
Yeah, but you *already know* the previous throw. We stopped being in the realm of *probabilities* which quantifies unknown events.
So, if previous throw was heads:
Heads OK, tails NOK
If previous was tails:
Heads NOK, tails NOK
Probabilities say the OK situation has a 25% of occuring, but *you* will never notice that 25% unless you're able to travel between parallel universes.
As far you are concerned, the first throw is now "fixed", so you either have 50% or 0%. The chance of getting a *second* heads is either impossible... or equal to the chance of getting one head.
Either the previous was OK and the chances are above the initial probabilities either it was not OK and you already know you have 0% chances of succeeding no matter what the next result is.
exactly, it's just 1/(256*20) turns right? For a second, I thought he meant that rage wouldn't lose PP unless it missed consecutively but that doesn't make sense.
This series is great. this is my 4th video so im subscribing. Great job!
On the plus side, you'll have a looooong time to get to know Lorelei :D
Lance Uppercut ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
"yes so what inspired you to become a pokémon trainer"
As your Primeape mercilessly pounds her sleeping Dugong. That is the best time to hit on a girl.
@@jakegordon4204 That sounds like one hell of a euphemism.
Two things:
1. You could set Cinnabar Island as your respawn point, fly to the Indigo Plateau, release flying Pokemon, and once rage eventually misses 20 times in a row and KO’s itself, you’re stuck on Cinnabar. Bet you can’t escape that one.
2. “But the point is, I proved someone wrong on the internet.” Made me laugh out loud.
Can't you just use Tackle for that, or some other weak move? Since the goal is to get stuck on Cinnabar, you don't need to go and use Rage.
You didn’t say to release Pokemon that swim
Actually i think you may be able to fish water Pokemon that could learn the hm surf
But part of the rules are to throw all items away. Plus, rods are optional.
you're overlooking the fact he gets pp back once he dies
07:41 Just like me every morning
Wow I read this comment as he said it
you should see a doctor about that
@@MarcD627 I'm pretty sure that's a normal human occurance.
Save states make it a lot faster to get the 20 misses in a row. If you use save states you can reroll each attack until you roll a miss.
then do the whole thing as a TAS and look like a boss
3:35 So basically, the AI "could" spam their Super Powerful "should only have 5 or 8 depending on PP Ups used" Moves as many times as they like?
Cheating assholes...
Yeah so you couldn´t just tank Legendaries that posses selfHeal attacks like in the new Generations lol
Hah!
You better have Burn Heal!
Not as bad as the Battle .
This video wasnt pointless because i heard you say "pee pee depleted"
Wow. What has this world become??
I'm 16 and i'm laughing at this. So mature i am.
mfw
...HAHAHHAHAAHHAHAHAHAHA
That's not funn-HAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHHH@AHAHAHAHAHNSSOCKLWKDBHUWQKDHSJAMQBSHFHJSKQMQ
#KGIVKKSK2
Suprisingly this was a very interesting video. I really wanna see more 😂
"The PP will not go down"
1 miss = 1 in 256 or 1 in 2^8. 20 misses = 1 in 2^(8*20) = 1 in 2^160 chance. PP UPped to 32 PP gives a 1 in 2^(8*32) = 1 in 2^256 chance. So basically the toughest and best encryption scheme in the world today, AES-256, with the known biclique attack, has about a 1 in 2^254 chance to be cracked through brute force and the best known method of attack.
You are more likely to crack an AES-256 key than to miss 32 Rages in a row. Of course if you're on an emulator this is easy because we can RNG abuse the miss chance.
Quite frankly if you tried this that many times on a real Gameboy, you have a bigger chance of getting out of there by some random RAM bit flip simply because the time you're spending in the game is over its error tolerance chance. But there's then the problem of the universe running out of energy before you're done with even a tiny fraction of attempts.
stuwee3
Your first attempt:) imagine if you got it right first try!
oh wow this video was amazing XD the time lost was 100% worth it
I'd say it was closer to 99.6109% worth it myself.
The way you summed this all up was hilarious xD
The 1/256 glitch happened to me so often in those games I legitimately questioned whether 100 accuracy wasn't in percentage, but some other value
I think the shiny example used in the video doesn't fully grasp how unlikely it is to miss 20 times in a row. Here's a better illustration: if there were a thousand universes like ours, and every star of every galaxy in each one of them was like Earth, and every human in every one of those Earths had been playing this scene on a thousand Gameboys for the entire existence of the universe there would be 0.1% chance that one of those tries resulted in Rage missing 20 times in a row. Yeah
Exantius E Show your process.
That was intense...
So, there's a chance !
Since the universe is infinite, there is actually a 100% chance of it happening, not only that but an infinite amount of players would successfully pull it off. As infinity simply put just keeps going. Therefore any possible scenario will eventually occur and it keeps going after that making each possible scenario occur an infinite amount of times. Infinity doesn´t fuck around
@@NickMK Even if the universe is infinite, there's only a finite amount of matter with which to make stars and planets... assuming we're not talking about Boltzmann brains... fuck
I escaped three times in a row while jumping through burning rings on a unicycle with blindfolded eyes.
Bitch please. I did all that while eating a burrito
Ah bitches, all tree of yall are weak af, i did all this whilest getting struck by lightning infinitely without dieing after each lightning strike.
I did ALL of that while counting to 1 million while speedrunning the game on another Gameboy. While taking a nap.
mate i did that while playing minecwaft and woblox at the same time
All six of you are weak, i did all that while making 5 new atomic bombs under 10 seconds.
Looks like some dream level luck. Aka impossible
The first part of the comment was already understandable enough, the "aka, impossible" only ruins the joke
I thought it was funny
actually, the dream situation would be much more likely than this.
@@nasekiller Getting dream luck 4 times in a row is more likely. So...yeah
The thing is, depending on how the random number generator works, it may be impossible to get those 255s. With some methods of generation, certain combinations of events are impossible
i think it ticks every frame. but dont quote me on that