Це відео не доступне.
Перепрошуємо.
Long Range Hunting REALITY CHECK
Вставка
- Опубліковано 14 сер 2024
- Long range elk and mule deer rifle hunting isn't all bad, but it also isn't all good. There is a real cost to being overconfident at long range distances while hunting. In this video I go over some concepts that will help you understand how far you should be taking shots on elk and deer this Fall.
I will be putting out a follow-up video that focuses on the wind and how it affects shots at long distances. Subscribe and stay tuned.
00:00 - Intro
01:05 - The Bias
03:46 - Real Hunting Accuracy
07:25 - Heavy Gun Rant
10:20 - Rule of Thumb for Real Group Size
12:21 - Real World Data
14:43 - Elk Vital Area Demos
19:00 - Why it Matters
#hunting #elkhunting #muledeerhunting #backpackhunting #adventure #selfreliance #pursuitwithcliff
---
FOLLOW CLIFF on INSTAGRAM: / cliffgry
SUBSCRIBE TO CLIFF'S NEWSLETTER:
To Get Updates on New Videos, Hunting Courses and Articles PursuitWIthCli...
Cliff's OnX Maps DISCOUNT: SAVE 20% - CODE: CLIFFG www.OnXMaps.com
Checkout a Bunch of Gear Cliff Uses on His Amazon Store - amazon.com/sho...
WATCH MORE FROM CLIFF:
Hunting Skillsets - • Hunting Skill Sets
E-Scouting Series - • E-Scouting
Hunting Gear - • Mountain Hunting Gear
Glassing - • Glassing
Catch, Clean, Cook Adventures - • Catch, Cook, Clean Adv...
Hunt Preparation and Logistics - • Fall Hunt Preparation
Hunting Horseback - • Horseback Mountain Hun...
Marksmanship - • Mountain Hunting Marks...
Wildlife Tracking - • Wildlife Tracking
PLEASE NOTE:
*Cliff no longer takes on new guided hunt or expedition clients. He sold all operating outfitting/guiding businesses prior to 2021.
What a great video; that addresses this controversial topic through the lens of reality. I have been trying to address the "extreme-distance hunting fad" for many years, but to no avail. The entire corporate product and media establishment is pushing unethical behavior on a level that we could never adequately counteract. Some younger generation guides are compounding the problem because long-distance hunting makes their job easier (they don't have to stalk and they can claim that the client had many "shot opportunities"). When a guide spots an elk at 800 yards and calls it a "shot opportunity", the problem is deeply engrained in our hunting culture. Keep up the great work. I'm a huge fan of your channel.
I have hunted elk in most of the Rocky Mountain states. If I remember correctly, I have taken thirty five bulls and cows. Most were UNDER 250 yards. Many under a hundred. It’s called hunting skill. The sport of hunting demands that. Bow, thirty yards was MY farthest.
Opinion based
Had some out of state hunters come to Wyoming, 55 years ago. Had 300 Weatherby's if I remember correctly. After telling us how accurate their guns were and they could hit elk in the vitals at 500 yards, we said "let's see". Put a bright blue 55 gallon drum horizontal on saw horses and measured off 500 yards. A box of shells apiece and neither of these sharpshooters ever hit the barrel. It is a lot harder than UA-cam suggests.
bwhahaha!
I went on a bison hunt on private property, where the game is standing under 75 yards, and the outfitter said, I had a hunter, the Bison about 50 yards, it took seven rounds 30-06 to put the animal down. For me, “One Shot One Kill”. 300 Weatherby magnum all day long!
@rudolphferdinand3634 i worked for a slaughter plant where i would at times go shoot bison. Farmers and farmhands recommended 300wm minimum because they seen guys take 6 shots to put one down. My employer and govt inspector had faith in me choosing my own equipment and being humane so i just used my 223 for most of them. All they needed was 1 shot each.
I shot 475 yards a couple of months ago for the first time. Ive shot for 30-35 years, but never over 100-150. I have a 6.5 CM I zeroed at 100. Went to a friends range that went to 475, read the Barnes ammo box to get an estimate on bullet drop, dinged the steel 5 for 5 shots. Wish i hadnt though, now i wanna take it further and do it more frequently. No scenario possible wherei hunt that a shot over 150 will ever present itself
Edit- 8" steel
Nothing like a Wounderby! Lol
Outstanding advice man! I'm active duty Army, born and raised in the Midwest, and it would take me 90 years to get your level of mountain hunting experience. The only thing I'd add is that MOA doesn't extrapolate. If a guy shoots 2 MOA at 200 yards, that does not mean he will shoot a 2 MOA group at 600 yards. I've seen first hand, guys shoot a 2 inch group at 200 yards and then can't hit a 24 inch circle plate at 500 yards. Just some food for thought. I truly appreciate your dedication to educating us hunters that are in the mountains for 10 days a year. You're the best channel out there man!
Thanks man! good luck on your hunts this Fall. Appreciate the comment. I agree.
Wind
100%. Wind, and having a harder time seeing your point of aim/holding steady exponentially decreases accuracy
Great video, I agree that most people shouldn’t shoot past 200-300 yards. If you’re a true rifleman that shoots a lot of rounds and has practiced a lot in field conditions and learned how to maximize stability you might be able to stretch that a bit but eventually the problem becomes that there’s too much time of flight and the affect wind will have will eventually take almost everyone out of the running to be able to make a long range shot 100% of the time. I’ve seen some very good shooters miss 8” targets at 600 yards from a prone position. So it takes a pretty special person to pull off a shot on a deer at that distance.
I agree! thanks for the comment
Thanks Cliff. Solid stuff as always. Risk adjusted shots save you from chasing wounded animals. In high mountain hunts that's the difference between a LONG hike after the shot, versus starting the pack out.
Love this. The best part is pointing out they don’t show you the bad hits and way off misses. If you’re going to shoot from mountain to mountain. Better be commuted enough to always go check for blood.
absolutely. that's another subject but a great one. thanks
At those distances, even a good shot may not have much, if any blood, to start off with.
you mean like gut shooting a deer at 30 yards out of a tree stand. gobs of videos of that on youtube. comes down to how much you practice.
There is also adrenaline / fatigue to factor in with some of these shots - At the range you can take deep breaths and relax into each shot. In the mountains sometimes you will be out of breath, and adrenaline / excitement can be a huge factor too. I've had a bear on the scope at 150 yards after a steep climb on less than ideal rest and my reticle was moving around like crazy. Had to get to 70 yards before I felt comfortable taking the shot.
for sure! great point
I give your point a five out of five and a cold beer for good measure! 🍻
Great video! It's been very humbling for me to evaluate my accuracy from real world shooting positions. It has made my philosophy practice long, hunt short.
Im 78 and have been hunting over 60 yrs.I agree with everything you said!!!! Maybe 20% of the hunters will listen to you. Testoserone takes over and most pay no attention to advice!!!! You can educate,BUTTT you cannot fix stupid.
I have been guiding elk hunters for 35 years in wilderness areas and private ranches. This is the best video on practical range shooting ever.
Thanks man. Really appreciate the support 👍
This man speaks the truth. I have a pretty good story for illustrating exactly this.
2 years ago a buddy of mine who lives 4 hours away on the opposite side of the state from me agreed to hunt with eachother. So after drill weekend he came out to my place and we each shot a deer from my blind. Now, we are both PRS/NRL shooters, and I tagged my doe at 507yds with a 90gr hornady cx (copper monolith)....but that was out of an 18lb rifle, with 25x magnification, off of a tripod, with the kestrel running, a rangefinder, and that 90gr 6mm bullet screaming at about 3,420. He shot a 4x4 buck at about 90yards with a similar setup but at 6gt speed.
My son and I drove out to his farm in western Nebraska a few days later. I brought a 20" Rem 7600 (pump rifle) in 30-06 running barnes 130gr ttsx's at just shy of 3200fps and a 2-10x mil-dot scope.
Thanks for sharing man! The story is a great example 👍
Dunning-Kruger Effect.
exactly! I had to wikipedia it, wish I knew that term/idea before making the video! haha
Whatever. I shoot rabbits from 200 yards with my long bow. You're a bunch of sissies.
@@CliffGray now I gotta look it up....
Well said.
500 yard ballistics is not needed for hunters. It is for asshat blasting.
One of the best videos out there on the subject! I have two videos on my YT channel proving I can shoot long distance at game. However as I get older and wiser I've learned to set the ego down and now I pack a lightweight rifle and rarely take shots on elk sized game past 300-400. Not that I'm against long distance shooting if the person practices a lot and is comfortable with their setup, I just prefer shooting something with a lot less recoil and thats a lot cheaper to shoot, meaning I can practice more throughout the year. To me that's key to always being deadly. Being 110% comfortable with what you're shooting and practice, practice practice!
Hey Cliff, great video! I heartily agree with you. I’ve always thought that a 1” group at the range meant that the rifle is capable of it…not the person. I’m working on my long range skills, with 500 being the ultimate goal. I’m in Wyoming so a lot of shots are 200+ yards. We are blessed with a local range with a long range canyon that stretches out to 1200 yards…there’s some serious shooters, I’m not one of them. Lol. Thankfully, I’ve been listening to your suggestions and practicing with my hunting gear in the mountains. I feel really comfortable at 300 yards right now, I staple small paper plates up for targets on dead trees. I’ve been working on the up hill and downhill shots from different positions. I really appreciate the real truth tips you give, thanks!
glad the videos have been helpful. love the paper plate idea. thanks
In my state of Texas, the Texas Parks and Wildlife Department (TPWD) has drawing for hunts. Near Turkey, Texas (south and east of Amarillo,) is a state park called the Caprock Canyon SP. Normally there is only rustic camping there. But enter a drawing and win and you get a chance to rifle hunt mule deer. They close it off for a week. The description warns of freezing weather (high plains desert canyon) and needing to take shots of at least 200 yards (high plains desert canyon.) There are not really any trees to hide behind and I have not seen anyone able to harvest a mule deer by putting salt on his tail.. That being said, for now, my comfort zone is to 300 yards.
Yes! Yes! Yes! Testing ourselves under field conditions is critical to knowing our capability. I know from experience that a 200-yard shot on a deer or pig is pretty far for field conditions out here. Prone shots are extremely rare. It's usually kneeling or standing while resting on a tree or something handy. Under field conditions, I've missed a 6" gong more times than I like to admit. I've hit it plenty but it's the misses that give me pause. I much prefer to close the distance somehow and have no question that I can make the shot. As long as I haven't spooked that animal by shooting at it, there's still a chance I can get closer. As they say in black powder circles, the goal is powder burns on the hide. Archery has its own dynamic with the arrow's time in flight where the vitals may not be in the same spot by the time the arrow arrives. Even if somebody can make that 80-yard shot on a target 100% of the time, the animal can move quite a bit between the time the string drops and the time that the arrow arrives. That perfect shot can be a clean miss, or worse. For trad bows, 20-25 yards is about the max. Compounds, double that at best.
Thanks Matt. Great stuff in your comment. I agree on the moment of the animal for long archery shots! Honestly even at some of these crazy rifle distances, the bullet hang time can be enough for an animal to move, resulting in a subpar situation. thanks.
Love the videos Cliff. I got an idea for a video. Discussing shot placement and where you should aim based on animal type and their body position at different yards. When to shoot and when to wait.
I like it. I have contemplated this type of video but I don't quite have enough shot footage to do it. I should be good on that front after this Fall. I constantly regret not at least attempting to film all the past shot experiences... that stuff would be gold for that type of discussion.
@@CliffGray You've got a sizable community now and talk enough about being humble and not a tool that I bet you could ask us for successful and unsuccessful shots of all kinds of animals at all kinds of ranges and do some analysis. Just keep the sources anonymous so our friends can't talk shit about how bad the shot we missed was :D
Specifically get videos of those successful/unsuccessful shots I mean.
@@JacopoSkydweller thanks man! I love that Idea. I'll try to put something together this summer. That would be interesting stuff.
Love it Cliff! Your channel is the most informative, REAL WORLD, channel on all of UA-cam! I dream of one day hunting the mountains, but time and money… That said, I’ve gathered a lot of the gear, and will hone my skills using your advice. The biggest hurdle for me is trying to practice in the angled environment-north Texas is pretty flat in most places! I am lucky to have access to large amounts of land for my ‘real world’ shooting tests though, so that’s a start.
appreciate your support! good luck on your future hunts
Great video. One of the benefits of archery hunting is you improve your stalking skills and when rifle season opens getting to 200-300 yds feels like child’s play.
I can shoot just under 1 moa with a scoped rifle off sandbags but always figured I'd be 4 times worse in the field. That leaves me shooting at elk 300 and under and deer about 200. I compensated by learning the game better and getting closer. It's served me well. It might others too. Plus there's less dicking with windage. Not to mention what you have to do after the shot. Distance creates after the shot issues that's only learned from near range experience.
Great discussion, practical and realistic. In the Phoenix area we have a Silhouette range that is available for public shooting when there are no matches scheduled. The range hangs steel at the 200m, 300m, 385m and 500m berms for the "open to the public" range times. I pick the 6 inch plates, using my backpack and the rear bag I carry hunting, practice hitting the 6 inch plates at each distance. If I can not hit the plate first shot every time then that distance is to far for reliable hunting shots in the field. BTW hits near the edge of the 6" steel count as a miss. This drill also confirms your scope dial ups at distance.
Me, 300 yards is a long shot. I live in long range western country. I am accessing this lately given my escapades missing a 200 shot last year.
Good point honing on rifle weight. I’ve been competitive off and on for 14 years but they are heavy short actions from 15-25LB’s…. Big difference from a 8lb magnum. Also I’m glad you brought up practicing in wind on paper and especially real world cold shooter/cold bore shot poi.
Thanks Richard 👍
Another great video. To go along with your rule of thumb, another way to test yourself as a shooter is to shoot Chris Way’s Kraft drill, it’s truly humbling and will help break the bench group mentality.
Thanks for addressing this Cliff. Too many folks are showing off their 500-1000yd kills, making others think they should try the same. Also, terminal ballistics are also very important. Most bullets need to be going 1800+fps upon impact to expand lethally. The very best are around 1600fps. That limits many popular rifles to around 400yds anyway, unless it’s a magnum, which typically groups worse and thus less accurate anyway.
Depends on your elevation. My neck of the woods, 30-06 can keep 1800fps to around 600 yards.
There are many non magnum loads that can put up those numbers way past 400yds. Like the piddly 6.5cm for example. With the 147gr eld match mine at around 380' elevation retains 1600fps to just past 900yds. My 223 load retains that to just under 600yds. Both have been used on deer past 400yds.
@@NorthRiverGuide eld match doesn’t even expand. It’s a high bc bullet made for punching paper.
@@Wallymakesstuff i see you have no experience with the bullet terminally and are just taking it at face value.
@@NorthRiverGuide you inspired me to dig a bit deeper and surprised to see that the eldm seems to do well on game. I’d still want to see gel tests at 1600fps, but very surprised at what I’ve seen on UA-cam on this topic. I wouldn’t lump all match bullets into that category but seems eldm is designed to expand.
ua-cam.com/video/mW_wBWlQbeI/v-deo.html has a pretty good detail on it. Also curious how they’d work on large bodied game like elk. I’m in the camp of more is better when it comes to takedown power and weight retention on large game.
Ya know, I've spent money in getting trained in long range shooting via professional instruction. I learned a lot, and can ring steel with M80 ball ammo out to a 900 yards with a scope that has wind holdovers. With a scope with no wind holdovers, I can Kentucky windage it out to 600 yards. I have access to some property that's nestled right up next to BLM land and can shoot out to 1000 yards almost any weekend I want. But I gotta say, from my somewhat limited experience, I will shoot no further than 500. The mountain and the flat range, are two different things. The elk I took last year, I shot at 4 times at 465 yards from a sitting supported position, with an 8 pound rifle, and only hit twice. I have those rounds sitting right here on my desk in a ziplock bag as a reminder.
great comment man. appreciate you sharing your thoughts. That is one thing I notice, folks that have access to long range shooting, a lot of them are the most conservative.
@@CliffGray I know it's probably poor form to share ones own videos on someone else's in the comments, but I think maybe there's something to be learned from it if anyone happens to read this.
Here's a video where i zeroed my tikka in for the first time at the property I mentioned above. Caveat, I;m no expert, I only have something resembling a vague clue at what I'm doing, if that.
( ua-cam.com/video/POzGPlpwMFc/v-deo.html )
Here's the result later in the year, video should start right after i shot, ( skip to 6 minutes in if it doesn't ) i slowed it way down so you can see how far it was, and what the elk are doing. Folks should keep in mind the wind in the first video when zeroing in, when viewing this one. side note: I did confirm windage at an indoor range after zeroing before this hunt.
( ua-cam.com/video/qUQ55-3-Ui8/v-deo.html )
Four shots, and I only hit twice. That's a 50% miss rate. A lot can go at that range. From getting a solid ranging, to the wind. Your basically "minute of elk". Odds are, one is not going to have the presence of mind to bust out a kestral and measure the wind ( I didn't and I had one on me), and even if you did, the wind where you are may be different where the elk is.
@@MiddleOutdoorsman Thanks man. I'll go check them out. Sounds like a great example for everyone. You're always welcome to share your videos here. thanks
Very true Sir. Some of my friends I took elk hunting with me one time. They bought new rifles and sighted them in and watch some youtube videos and they were ready. Don’t get me wrong these guys were hunters and have been shooting most of their adult life. We got there a day early and we put out a 12x12 plate. We drove to an unknown distance which ended up to be 427 yds. I told them to walk with their gear and when they saw the target to range it and shoot it under a minute. One shot. Results are like you described. Very eye opening for guys who don’t shoot long range and hunt. I say both bc long range is easier in prone position and in good conditions. Both took longer than a minute to set up bc the grass was high enough to block their view while laying down. Only one shooter was able make a hit on steel the second shot and just about missed the plate on the left edge bc in the heat of the moment nobody thought about the wind factor. So true on ur video. The only reason I put together this challenge is bc I know most of the time you have moments to make a shot. The other reason is because I’m a designated marksman, and I have lots of experience seeing the new guys come out with their new rifles, making the long range shots and can’t call the wind even if they know their dope.
So well said and so spot on. Weight, funny all the stuff you start leaving behind. Also, find a way to balance carry the rifle. I put painters tape down on the side of the stock and then put U -Haul box tape on top of it. Poke my head thru the sling and it rides on top of my pack. I like bedded wood stocks. This protects the stock. I also find the balance point of the rifle when loaded and mark the line in the tape. It is a quick reference point when shooting from sticks, tree, etc…
I used to practice 800 yard shots over and over and over. Only once did I shoot an animal over 200 yards. That pronghorn was 230 yards. Most were under 100 yards. Practice getting closer.
Shot past 100 yards for the first time today. Shot at ranges between 200 and 300, plus a few a little over 400. It became very clear very quickly that I was good to go for shooting game out to 250 but for whatever reason, anything past that and I started opening up. Definitely humbles you when you’ve spent time wondering what bullet you need to shoot out to 500 yards only to realize it doesn’t matter because you won’t be shooting past half that distance any time soon.
Yea good work! I like your no bs approach to your channel.
We do a thing where when the glassing is slow we pick a bush or rock and get on target and stable as fast as possible. You can roughly see your margins of error by how much your crosshairs are moving.
I personally don’t feel as satisfied shooting something at long ranges vs stalking in close. That’s a function of of my personal values, where I live and my physical ability. I feel the same way about hunting from a truck.
I’m no one to judge. Weigh your values before getting into long range hunting.
great perspective. thanks for the comment and the support for the channel.
Excellent video! This is probably the best explanation I have ever heard as far as trying to get through to people as to why you should not take long range shots unless you have actual field condition experience. A good friend of mine who owns an outfitting business in Wyoming, told me the same as you that he can sense when someone has never done anything except shoot off of the bench and then multiplies their tiny groups to claim they’re good up to 500 yards. He said he immediately limits them to absolutely no more than 250.
Long range hunting is a funny subject. I find just like that, that very few people have ever shot more than 100 yards and it is almost always from a bench. I consider myself a pretty good shot, and I have access to a shooting range up to 800 yards right out my front door. I practice regularly from field positions, but I rarely shoot more than 400 yards. To me I have very good confidence out to 300 yards. I consider 400 yards my maximum under almost any hunting conditions, but I have only taken that shot a couple of times at a live animal in my lifetime. To me anything more than 500 yards is unethical. It is about hunting not long range target shooting. Thanks for your video. Keep up the good work!
Thank you. Great comment. My personal distances are similar to yours. Particularly when you add in mountain winds... just tough.
Caliber, shooter and energy matter. Shooter being the most important. My maximum effective range is 700 yards. I wont target these distances though as I am not as automatic at this range as I would be at 500 yards. You make a ton of great points and I agree that most don’t practice enough at those ranges nor do they have the equipment and understanding of wind and ballistics necessary to truly be consistent at those ranges. I shoot a 1.5-2” group at 300 yards. I shoot a 7mm rem mag and 6.5 creedmoor.
Was hunting with my family and a herd of elk crested a ridge across from us and all my uncles started firing like madmen. I didn't and my grandpa asked why. I said I didnt think I'd be able to get a kill from that far with my 30-30 with iron sights. First he said it wasn't that far but after some back and forth he lased it at 450+ yards and just laughed and said "I wouldn't have been able to either mijo."
The big difference between archery and rifle hunting is that with archery you are hunting with open sights and the only stability you have are your own 2 legs. With our new rifle scopes and nice bipods/gear, it’s too easy to zoom way in and think that we are going to be successful. All that magnification does is present a false reality, just cause you can see it doesn’t mean you can shoot it. Combine that with tricky mountain winds, and there’s a reason so many people are surprised when they miss.
interesting perspective. I'm sure optics/rests do play into folks confidence level... particularly at 400+ yards and without if a notice of the mountain winds. thanks for the comment
I like what you said about different field positions as well. Sometimes people just a pick a number and say “I won’t shoot past 500 yrds..”Unfortunately that leads them to think that they can shoot up to 500 yrds in any conditions. I might pass on a bull at 300, and then shoot him the next day at 400. All depends on the stability of my rest, if he’s moving/grazing or standing still, what the wind is doing, the angle of the shot… Don’t just pick a number, like Cliff said, go shoot in the mountains and find out for yourself! It can be humbling haha.
Great vid Sir! Always thought we should brag about how close we got rather than how far we shot. 😂
that's a good policy!@@lanetaglio
Well said
That is why I practice on full size silowets at distances out to 1000yd but only plan on 4-500 on an animal
I also want to mention that your accuracy at those ranges is greatly affected by your SD in your ammunition
Great video….it shoot a lot at 1,000 yards under hunting conditions and am better than most at it…..and I still suck at calling the wind for the first shot! Never shot an elk past about 400. I used to be a hunter Ed instructor in Idaho. They should play this video in the class. Thx
I hear ya on the winds. Folks have no idea how hard it is to call mountain winds. Thanks for the support and comment!
This is the best long range hunting explanation I have seen. One thing that a lot of people don't consider is how your adrenalin level, heart rate and blood pressure go up when a buck walks out, and you might be a little tired and winded after walking up rough terrain. That is probably the main event that makes you "range" 1 MOA turn into a 'hunting' 3 MOA. I'm retired Army and work at a place where I see a lot of hunting. The hunting area here harvests over 1400 animals a year. If you can imagine it happening or going wrong, I've probably seen it. If you shoot enough, bad shots will be made. It may not even be the hunter's or gun's fault; I have seen ammunition fail too. If a deer takes a step or is startled by something as you squeeze off a shot at 300 yards, it could make it a bad shot. There are too many variables the farther out you go. If you have a scope that zooms 20+, zoom to the highest setting and see how far your 'calm' heart beat moves the point of aim using just your hunting kit in the field. Now add adrenalin and the biggest deer you have ever seen to the scenario, and you buddy in your ear "Bro, don't F this up!"
My main hunting rifle is also my "long range" rifle. A Savage Axis II in an MDT chassis and 2.5-15x50 Optic. Just weighed in at 12.2lbs and yes i do hike this rifle up and down mountains when hunting. I can hit 2 MOA steel targets easily out to 400 yards, after 600 yards it gets a little more tricky.
Prone is always easier to get more stable, but hardly practical. Most of my shooting is off obstacles and barricades in odd positions.
I need to get into oractice again and use my 10" gongs out to 500 yards from various positions and distances.
very fkng interesting
for me, this clarifies that.. maybe I should forget upgrading my cartridge size
because, I'm going to want a heavier rifle for recoil, and I'm seeing that the cost is bigger than the gain in range
The nerd in me wanted you to do area calculations of the vital zone vs MOA grouping during the overlays to determine hit percentages haha...great stuff as always
bwhaha, I did it man. ha. just couldn't put it in there and bore people to death.
Enjoyed your video. Practice and being confident with your equipment is essential. I always enter my shooting range data into a notebook everytime I go to the range and evaluate the good and the bad. Make adjustments and know my limits have made me a much better hunter.
Agree with you.
This should be preached more. Thank you. Ive taken two deer bt 300 and 350. Both deer were harvested but both with shots that were “marginal”. One too far forward and one too far back. And I was truly practiced and confident. Shooting live game is just different.
Awesome Cliff, I can now tell my son he is a unicorn. He made a 380 yard shot that was within 1.5-2 inches of aim point. The wild part is he has not been shooting much in 7 years.
Lots of great information in this video and I would agree on your rule of thumb for your "hunting accuracy" group size. One thing that has absolutely made me a better shot in the field is going to field style competitions like Competition Dynamics or NRL Hunter. These are as close to a hunting scenario as you're going to get and you get to see how good you really are with your rifle and equipment. Sure they're competitions and so it doesn't all directly apply, but you really find out how well you manipulate your gear and shooting position to make good shots on targets. Practicing long range and shooting at these competitions and making consistent hits on 10" plates at 1000 yards makes the 350 yard shot on an elk a chip shot.
I had this experience recently. I am an above average range shooter on the bench. I heard about a 500 meter silhouette match not far from my home and decided to give it a try. The match was 8 inch chicken silhouettes at 500 meters (543 yards) 20 rounds in 4 5shot relays with 1:15 per relay. That is 15 seconds per round on the bench with a bipod. Given my consistent 1 inch and under groups at the range I felt that I could do fairly well. Well, not so much. I shot 3 out of 17 targets, I ran out of time on 3 relays. My spotter reported each miss to me and none of those were way off.
Hmmm. Not going to take any 500 yard shots this fall that is for sure. I used my deer hunting rifle, an off the shelf Savage Axis 6.5 creedmore and factory ammo. Is this a realistic look at my hunting performance at 500 meters? Probably. I pass a 3 in 17 chance of a hit every time. I will also go shoot that match every chance I get until my shooting improves at that distance.
I also found it interesting that the match environment gave me the same level of "buck fever" (adrenaline induce excitement and shaking) that I get when hunting and an animal presents a shot.
The end was really good about shot opportunity and making those opportunities. A big consideration would also be animal recovery.
Very true. I can shoot 1 moa at 100 yards at the range , but 300 yards off an improvised rest is a while different ball game.
for sure
This video actually made me feel a lot better about my hunts, shooting, training regiments, and how I teach my kids.
Bench rest zero at 50, 100, and 150.
Once the rifle and scope are tuned.
While wearing all the gear we walk in with (pack and all), we shoot at 50, 100, 150, 200, and 300. We do a little extra work for kneeling and sitting.
We do this and watch for, estimate, and adjust for wind best we can.
When we have a person and rifle combo that hits consistent groups of
The best method I have found for finding my field shooting limits.
1. Shoot at a target that is a realistic vital zone size. This is 8”-10” for anyone who is wondering. Remember we are going for minute of quickly fatal shots to the vitals not minute of elk or mule deer. They are vastly different standards.
2. Place the target at an unknown range and in a location you have never shot before.
3. Load up with all your gear you would normally hunt with and strap it to its normal location.
4. Run 400 yards as fast as you can (200 yards out and 200 yards back).
5. Immediately start a timer for a minute and thirty seconds. Unload your gear, build a shooting position, find and range the target, dial the scope if necessary, and shoot the target. If you miss take the follow up shot as fast as possible.
You will pretty quickly find that your effective range in the field with that light weight magnum shrinks considerably. Repeat this process over the course of a few weeks and you will begin to see the range limits of your shooting positions/abilities.
good way to do it! makes sense to me
Excellent video man! It's great seeing you cover this subject in so much detail. Can't believe how much solid info you packed in here Cliff 👍 This is definitely the most realistic video that I've seen on this by far! This one's going into the ol' faves list 👍
thanks man!
@@CliffGray Anytime brother! 👍 Thanks for sharing as much valuable content as you do man!
Great video as usual Cliff.
I will start my comment with a quote that tells my feelings on one matter.
Gunwerks sells more ultralight hunting rifles than anyone...right...
Ahem..."Light guns SUCK!" ~ Aaron Davidson - CEO of Gunwerks
Now that we have that out of the way. 😆
I think you are more spot on than most realize. I work for a custom rifle builder and do the whole UA-cam thing as well. But I'm actually in the process of starting an LLC on the side, centered around this subject. I have a handful of clients lined up already. Guys that have hunts lined up out west this fall and want to learn how to shoot accurately and know what their real world limitations and group sizes are at distance using their hunting gear. I'm in central Minnesota and there are nearly zero places to shoot past 200yds unless you have access to a private farm, which I do.
We can place paper or steel out to almost 1100yds.
I think this video exposes a giant void in the hunting world that needs to be filled. I'm going to try and help fill it.
I would love the opportunity to discuss this with you because you make some great points, but the MOA decay as distance increases, is actually worse than you said it is.
As a credibility reference, for whatever that's worth, I just got back from a Prairie Dog trip in SD. We always start the trip with some ELR using my buddies 375 Allen Magnum. I came up with a firing solution and got my buddy on a 22"H x 30"W plate at 2,070yds on the second shot. Wind was perfect on the first round but, shot over the top. Zero and velocity are likely migrating because the rifle has less than 50 rounds on it. So, missed the first shot high, then hit it 4 shots in a row before letting the barrel cool in 95 degree heat.
Thanks for what you do Cliff. I've told you this before but, you have the best, "western hunting" content in the business.
Thanks Tim! I really appreciate the support. Great comment and example. I love the business idea. I'm sure you can get a lot of interest from folks for that solution.
Great video! Especially w/ regards to shooting prone & heavy guns. 💪
thanks man!!!
Excellent points on hunting accuracy. Your videos have the best real world advice I have seen, and I watch them all. I have been debating whether its worth it to lug around my 7mm rem mag (about 9 lbs) verses a lighter 6.5. I would love to be able to shoot 600+ yards, but I would have to be able to shoot less than 2MOA to do it in hunting conditions. I was assuming would be easy to do with an MOA rifle until watching this video. I have never actually tested it in real life conditions, though, only on the bench. If it turns out I am only a 3MOA shooter, thats a 12" group at 400 yards. Marginal for deer, OK for elk. At that range, even a 6.5 creedmoor will carry 1500 ft-lbs of energy (5000ft elevation) to kill an elk! Plenty for deer. If I know I can't shoot past 400 yards, there's no point in carrying around the heavier 7mm rem mag, even for elk. I could carry the much lighter 6.5 creedmoor, which I can probably shoot better anyway. This could also affect my scope choice as well. If range is limited to 500 yards or so, I can get away with a scope with less turret adjustment such as a leupold VX3 instead of spending more for a VX5 which also weighs more. Time to test my real accuracy in the field I guess, then sell the 7mag if I can't at least shoot 2MOA out to 500.
I’d like to add a few things…First my credentialing: 12 years active Army, Infantry, marksmanship instructor, and I spent 2 years on a sniper team. I’ve hunted my entire life but am not a long range hunter. I live in NY and my furthest shot on an animal was 175 yards.
But….
1. Reload, find the best bullet, powder, primer combination. I have loads for 308 caliber cartridges that shot groups just over .308 inches at 100 on a bench. (But they are not 0.308 inch groups in hunting conditions)
2. Know your cold shot. Your first shot is your true point of aim.
3. Zero your rifle in the conditions you are going to hunt. Zeroing your rifle on a nice 85 degree day will not be zeroed when you are on a mountain 6000 feet higher in 22 degree weather. (Powder can also be affected by this)
4. Practice shooting in those conditions. I know so many hunters that won’t go shooting if it’s raining or cold or windy.
5. Set up a range, in hunting conditions, cold/rainy/windy, at your max range. Then pick up your gear and do a hard hike for about 3 hours, end this hike where your target is and as soon as you get there, give yourself 30 seconds to set up your shot and fire. (This was a lesson I learned during my 3 years of combat) very very rarely are you calm and well rested when it comes time to pull the trigger.
6. All the time veterans hear guys say shit like. “Yea, I could totally be a sniper easy because I’m such a good shot,” and you just stand their looking at their obese stomach, and spindly arms and legs and you think to yourself. “Fat boy, you wouldn’t make it off the bus the first day!” Your real world accuracy will benefit more with gym time than with range time.
Your credentials are outstanding. Mine not so much, 4 year "Sea Bee" VFW, 30% disabled. Hunted in town with a pump-up pellet rifle iron sights which taught Kentucky windage and 1 kill zone the eye. The "Gunnie" also called me the sneakiest bastard he'd ever seen. He made me the grenadier and M-60 gunner. Qualified expert even when wearing a mark5 gasmask in standing position (m-16a1) .
I live within 75 miles of Yellowstone Park entrance, and have an Elk tag in a desert flat unit. I usually hunt in mountains and shoot once 2-300 yd kills on deer with an .06, for the last 16 years. The gun and me eyesight are both degrading (4-500) without cover for upcoming hunt success needed. What would you recommend. Hope it's not stay on the bus. If you want to ever visit this neck of the woods drop a line the fishing is stellar. Henry's Lake, #1. Most winters a 300+ elk herd is intercepted by Fish & Game to keep them off the highway, they feed right next to the Teton River, just down the road.
This is why i watch Cliff. Hes not scared to tell the truth, however contrary to whatever the current marketing and latest fads are saying. Most of these people have no business shooting past 200yds at a living thing.
thanks man!
More people need to understand this. My bench accuracy is usually 0.5-1 moa and I can accurately shoot out to 600 yards but wouldn’t shoot an animal past 400 with a solid rest. There are too many factors in the field. Another thing to consider is that the animal could move right when you take the shot and the second it takes the bullet to travel could cause a miss or bad hit. I wouldn’t trust the average hunter to shoot consistently past 200 yards. You also need to actually practice long range, even with a ballistic calculator you will not be accurate without fine tuning your dope, these apps are only a reference and will not be 100% correct.
great additional points! thanks
This is the whole idea of Chris Ways Riflekraft test. 4 positions (standing, kneeling, sitting, prone x3)- 12 shot group and anything sub 1.5” is fantastic even with a 20+lb PRS rig. With my PRS gun at 22lbs (6 dasher) i consistently shoot 1.25-1.5” but with my 10lb 6.5 PRC and 300 WSM it ends up more in the 1.75-2” group at 100 yards.
I'll check it out, not familiar with it. Makes sense. thanks for the comment.
Agreed, Riflekraft drill is great and shows you how your personal zero shifts based on the different positions
How do you like the 300wsm? Is it accurate and would you choose it again?
Im thinking about this cartridge and a 20” barrel. Id like to know your thoughts. Thank you
@@milo555100 nice cartridge but expensive to reload and impossible to get if you do not reload. better options out there imo, especially for hunting.
@@MrLordromanian I appreciate your reply. Looking for something light, short and packable but still delivers some punch at a little distance. 7prc w a 22” barrel may be way to go.
Your observations about media bias is spot on. Before coming back to the Guide industry, I spent several years in the Firearms Mfring industry and managed a Long Range Shooting Range.
I say it all the time to client hunters - YT and the Outdoors Channel has ruined a lot of hunting perceptions and 90% of the time not showing how the hunts go down in reality and your gun observations are spot on too.
Most clients are from the Midwest and back East and have no experience at shots passed 400yds. My outfitter doesn't want clients shooting beyond 400yds just to make sure animals don't get lost. I've only ever let one hunter shoot long range. He had the right set up and understood the conditions. He made a one shot kill at 700yds but later admitted he had about 12"+ wind drift and got lucky on his impact.
Most of my hunters just don't really use their hunting gear prior to the hunt and only bench shoot for their accuracy tests.
It's astounding to me tho how many shooters can NOT freehand or improvise shoot in a quick scenario. I grew up freehanding 200-250yd shots with open sights and these clients all have to have a rest, a tripod, prone, and 10mins of set up. I used to get upset about it... Now I'm just patient and let them get ready, it's their luck that they brought to the woods with them that that animal remains in the zone. I'm not going to push them or rush them and add to the chaos they are feeling and I just calmly walk them thru the shot and I don't push their comfort zones of shooting.
I hope this really really sinks in with those clients we will see in the woods. I really wish they would shoot more AND a smaller caliber so they have way better accuracy that a large caliber they can't realistically spend the time on the range to get proficient and very accurate. They would be better served buying more ammo than fancy camo!
The other thing I've noticed is that now a days at 400yds and in... Almost no one understands hold overs and rely on these fancy dial to scoped and still mess it up. On Elk at 400yds and in simply knowing a hold over is easy, fast, and accurate if they have practiced it.... I saw a guy loose out an opportunity in Sonoro on a 230" class Mule Deer at like 230yds because he was obsessed with his dial to scope... He had a fast flat caliber and only needed a slight hold over and he would have had him but the time spent fiddling with his dial to knobs cost him time and that Deer just walked into the brush and left his life forever!
Good info your putting out. It's confirming so e of my experiences as a Guide. I'm not interested in being an outfitter, I just want a long season in the woods for another 5-19yrs.
Exactly right! Practice in the field , and know for sure what you can do. Yes , shoot at the range and check your "drop", my 7mm rem mag is really close to 22 inches with a 175g bullet at 400 yards, but even though I am absoulutely sure of that , will I take the shot , probably not! If I can get closer , then that is what I will try to do. To wound a game animal and not get him is a terrible feeling and i hope you never have to go through that!
Get out there and practice, its fun and what the ethical hunter/shooter should do! I want to say /rant more, but you get the idea.
Best video and most honest I think I have ever seen . Thank you.
Thanks! 👊👍
I agree on some things you say. The heavy gun talk is 100% accurate. I've taken a 14lb gun on back country elk and deer hunts. It's absolutely exhausting. I don't believe in shooting from a sled or bench rest for accurate shooting. It shows you how accurate your weapon is. Not you as a shooter. But if I'm shooting 500+ yards, I should have time to find a decent rest and get myself comfortable. I personally shoot prone out to 1000 from my bag to get comfortable for the season. And I'll shoot seated or kneeling out to 500 yards. What I do agree with is that he is spot on about being able to shoot at these distances and putting yourself as close to hunting situation as possible. You need to understand your data and windage.
Right on Cliff! Great vid. 20 min went fast.
good to hear. thanks james
You nailed this video for me. Even down to the archery. In alberta we have access to land that it's possible to shoot a mile easy. Yet there are still people I've met that will shoot past 400 without ever doing it. Just using a ballistic calculator app.
6:42 Used to think I was an above average shooter because I could repeatedly drill a 8" tall auto standup silhouette target with my bolt action every 7 seconds from prone, when it finished righting itself. This at 300 yards.
A couple of hunts later I barely shoot in prone unless I'm sighting in a scope, Better to practice worst-case hunting scenario. For me that is get out of breathe doing pushups or something, then stand and shoot at 200 yards off of my dual leg shooting stick. It sucks but I actually feel ready for my hunts now.
I had this issue with archery because on flat ground, I can shoot that group at 80 yards. What i don't have enough practice doing is ranging in the field and up and down hill shots.
It's a completely different skill.
Absolutely- so humbling! Both form and precise bow set up are critical when shooting up or down hill. Our local archery club has realistic targets (down and up hill) 80 down to 30 yards that school me. Tough to hold good form when the ground you are standing on is far from level.
The same applies to rifles.
That is an awesome video! Finally you made the call on those stupid long range hunting videos. I keep my distance to 300 meters max and I carry usually a 9 lb rifle here in the Colorado mountains which I already consider heavy. However the rifle is accurate and I don't want to put my trust in my lightweight Kimber in .308 Win. However, I practice as much as possible from hunting positions like sitting or kneeling using sticks. I also agree that prone is quite often not an option.
A lot of hunters also overestimate what the caliber they shoot can actually do on distance. If you look at the ballistics of most common cartridges they don't have enough power at ranges beyond 400 meters unless you use one of those Weatherby's not even to mention the optics you need for an accurate shot.
Again, great video!
I have shot 400 to 500 yards for deer before. Never had a miss. Never lost one, in my experience. I see deer in the early morning or late afternoon and there is no wind to contend with.
You absolutely positively must know your distance and your drop. If you're going to shoot, that's the important part.
If I'm shooting 540 yd how much will that 308 or that 300 or that 375 drop?
I grew up under the hunting direction of it’s not how far you can shoot but rather how close you can get. That requires more skill and appreciation for hunting ethically in my opinion. If you’re going to hunt then I believe that you owe it to the game animal to make every effort to make a clean ethical kill within your skill level.
Loved this video cliff! Really pumped to hear your going to do the wind video
Another good 5 min video by Cliff!!! LOL, love the content!
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! I actually started this one to make it a You Tube short - didn't quite make it down to sixty seconds!
It’s about time someone put this into perspective. The average Joe can’t shoot that well at extended range. I’m no unicorn but I’ve spent 50 of my 62 years behind the butt of a rifle and have been building custom hunting rifles for 20 years. I shoot all the time as load development is part of the service I offer.I shoot sub MOA groups on the bench and off my pack frame in hunting conditions, but I know how to read the wind, thermals and terrain. I have an private 800 yard range with available range out to a mile if I so choose. I would recommend the average hunter first be proficient at 100 yards of his hunting gear then move out to 300 yards, then 600 yards, beyond that your hunting bullet looses so much velocity they will not open as designed. When I speak of hunting bullets they are the Nosler Accubonds & Partitions, Swift A-Frames & Sirocco II’s, and the Barnes monolithics TSX. Use a bullet designed for hunting!
Agreed! I’m fortunate enough to have acreage where I can confirm my zero and dopes out to 500+ yards.
Love your videos!
Thanks man!
Best channel full stop 👊🏼 Cliff, keep it goin man.
My hunting buddy started off my deer season with the question "how far out are you comfortable shooting that .243?" I told him I'm REASONABLY comfortable up to 500yd, HOWEVER..... I have a really high doubt I'll need anything longer than the 100yd I've sighted it in at since I've never had to shoot any of my deer beyond 50yd and my shot is always slightly higher than my aim point. Shut him up real quick when my deer was at 40yd and dropped about 30yd from my shot. I did however figure out real quick a 6-24 scope is a tad much for how I usually end up filling that tag, I'll be getting a lvpo to replace it before next season.
I know a couple that own a ranch in Colorado. They closed the ranch to hunting except for relatives and people they know because of long range "hunters" wounding mule deer and elk leaving them to die a slow death. Many guides will no longer do business with long range hunters because of things they witnessed. One guide told me about a client that missed an elk at 700+yards by 10 feet then took a second shot that hit the guts. He had to force the guy to help track it from 10am till 4 pm. They found it and took 2 more shots to put it down.
Yikes. Unfortunate to hear stuff like that
I love how you can think outside the box and explain everything so well.
P.S. I am a unicorn damnit. Can’t shoot for shit but I’m pretty hahaha
haha!
Great video!!!
1st you need to determine the max distance performance of your bullet. You need enough velocity remaining at the target distance to allow the bullet to function properly and get the proper expanding effect. My personal minimum is 1600 FPS remaining when the bullet reaches the target. Remaining energy is complete BS, you need speed to cause the bullet to open up as intended within the target animal.
2nd you need to determine the vital zone size of the animal you want to hunt. THAT is your target size forever, and you need to be able to put ALL of your practice shots inside that target size. If you can't do that at 500 yards on the practice range then you have NO BUSINESS shooting live animals at that range. If 300 yards is your max then all of your hunting shots needs to be within that range. PRACTICE, PRACTICE, PRACTICE, and NEVER take a shot at an animal unless you've practiced it at the range. That's how you grow your hunting shooting distance skills. If you're not shooting at least 2 boxes of ammo a month to practice long distance hunting shots then you have no business attempting it in a hunting situation. The majority of hunters will buy a single 20 round box of ammo and will probably have 10 rounds left over at the end of the season. THAT'S REALLY SAD.
As you get older, you might be like me, getting arthritic, I have a titanium hip, sore knees and more. I don't shoot long distance, but was quite good at off hand shooting because of where I hunt. I was better than average. But my left shoulder is bothering me and even that talent has eroded. I have to find a new hold or try therapy. But the bottom line is be honest about your abilities, that is what a real man does.
Don’t worry, I got you.
White Tail - 150yds
Moose - 200yds
Elk, Mule Deer, Pronghorn - 300yds
Fight me
Bwhaha I like the approach
One other point is that almost no animals I have ever killed stood around long enough to range them, adjust the scope, set up a shooting rest, get hearing protection and do a dozen things prior to a shot. It is usually hurry up or the animal is gone.
I’ll take that as a compliment- I suck shooting longe range so I just have to get close 😂. I basically pretend I’m archery hunting with my rifle haha
Agree or disagree, what I feel was the best hunting practice was shooting a couple hundred jackrabbits. Shoot some with your hunting rifle. When it comes to shooting At deer, elk, antelope, bear and whatever else big game related… I very seldom take a shot longer than 300 yards, and I don’t really like to do that. About 225 is my sweet spot. I like retrieving my game and hate loosing it. Shooting offhand and shooting from a knee is extremely important and increases my overall opportunity.
I agree with that. I know some folks will disagree but when someone grows up dragging a bb gun around shooting squirrels, hunting prairie dogs for fun with buddies, rifle hunting rabbits, etc... they develop a firearm handling ability that is hard to duplicate in a "training environment". I am sure it is just the amount of repetitions one gets in realistic conditions. Thanks for the comment.
Time of flight of the projectile is also very important. How much time does the animal have to move before impact. A 100 yard archery shot or a 1000 yard rifle shot can be calculated and executed perfectly but the animal could move several feet before impact and now you have a miss and spooked animal or worst a wounded animal. Get as close as you can without spooking the animal to take the shot. It will be the difference of packing out meat or spending the rest of your day or days looking for a wounded animal.
Sound advice on shooting skills. I have bought animal size targets and put them up and practice shooting at them. I also shoot a lot of jugs full of water at distance. Easy to know if you missed or hit. Yes, I clean up after myself.
thanks! jugs of water are a great way to do it, even shooting at rocks with a spotter is great practice.
I grew in the 1960’s & 70’s. Shooting Rocks. Really helps you learn angles. It’s a heck of a lot of fun!!!
Two weeks ago I shot a 37" African Oryx with a 143gr 6.5 Creedmoor at 384 yards kneeling off of a tripod. I took my 19lb Ruger Precision Rifle and hiked in a total of 10 miles in the White Sands Missile Range heat. It's possible if you know you're a unicorn. ;-)
I don't even like shooting 300 yards. I can. I practice off sticks or a post rest out to 400. I'm not great after about 250 off sticks or post. More than happy to shoot to 200. 150 off the shoulder.
In saying all that, I've got into no scope hunting. Really working to get into 100-150yards to take my shot. That stalk really gets the heart racing.
Man 5-600 is a chipshot for a marksman.I grew up shooting small bore and shot competitive .I use the right tools for the job and been at it a lifetime.A 300 OTM out of a 338 NM has very little wind drift compared to the smaller stuff.But ya I shot a diker at 62 yrds that's 8'' archery, shot competitive in that also.Can print a 1 1/8 at 400 with my rifle.SHot tons of game in these later years at 5-600 really common for me.I have a atlas and prone for most of the lone stuff.Shot quite a few sitting with back on tree.My rifles 8 3/4 dressed.Did 16 miles last opener in MT 3400 vert and im over 60.Guesss that way all 4 sides of my shop are full of 6x6 bulls.Ive had to walk backward to get off mountain, cuz my minds writing checks my body can't cash.My son shot most his game 5-600.He was 6 year expert rifle and pistol in Marines andSWAT trained.Ive put 1/2 elk on him bone in several times and he's 170 and 5-7
Sight-in for maximum point blank range for the vital zone of the game you’re hunting and the round you’re using. Hunt until you get close enough. No excuses.
I have shot 1000yds consistently with my 300wm but would never, EVER consider taking even a whitetail deer at longer than 300yds. Reason: shooting prone or off a bench is totally different than free standing or using a shooting stick. Ive tried both next to each other. I had a 1/2” group at 75yds while on a bench, and then it opened to 3.5” off a shooting stick. Same ammo, same distance and target. Now could I spend more time and money getting better equipment to help stabilize? Yes, but ill still not duplicate the same constancy.
great advice. my longest poke was at a big whitetail buck right at 500 yards. super ethical kill. however i generally keep things close. my last elk was 150, and before that 10 lol
I still always practice with my .308 out to 500 under hunting conditions, and am super comfy out to that range. Max range for my preferred bullets expansion anyway.
I happen to agree with the points on this video. I also incidentally shoot a 15lbs rifle. Now I am a disabled hunter and therefor my hunts are always ambush based. I still am never able to shoot from a prone position. It is always sitting over sticks. But I happen to know that I am a 300m Max, Hunter...
Just delt with on my ontario moose hunt, set up in pile of burnt cut logs like a nest. Had all sorts of stable possitions at different heights and also had a full height set of shooting sticks. I ended up having to stand up a couple wet slippery logs for a shot at 150 yards. Took everything i had in me to breath properly and stabilize the reticle.
Alot of the issue is people don’t shoot all year and then break out their rifle a week after season opener you have to shoot alot to be good at it just like anything else I know there are exceptions to every rule
Some people own huge properties and can easily shoot 1000 yards every weekend. However if you live in a big Metropolitan area, such a range may be hours away.
AMEN! Field groups are VERY different from bench groups!!!!!!
Im a “trad” or traditional archery guy….40 yards with a compound on a whitetail is not very ethical-deer will typically duck the arrow/jump the string…bow isnt perfectly tuned/arrow isnt perfectly tuned and balanced/hunter isnt skilled enough to read sign-understand when the animal is actually on high alert/wind call etc….all that being said…when I do hunt with a rifle…its a 45-70…farthest shot has been 80 yards…1 black bear, 4 elk, 3 mule deer and I lost count of whitetails…the thrill is in the hunt not the kill…one of the guys in our hunting camp blew the front leg off a nice bull elk and it ran up and over the next mountain range and probably the next state
Amen brother… things start getting very real, very quick once you start shooting beyond 300-400m
Awesome video…great points!
I have a 13lb rifle i am 17 and yes it is heavy but i have hike a lot with it in 2feet plus snow and up and down steep Slopes thick brush in 8000 plus elevation, over and over again ,and yeah if you don't practice carrying your rifle your fucked but if you have the right muscle you can still hunt just fine and it kicks less to but a have Done crossfit since i was 4 years old so i am used to being fatigued. some times i love it some times i hate it but its the gun i have and huting is so fun to me that even though the sweat Blood and Tears you will have a hard time trying to wipe the smile off my face even if I don't get a elk this fall i will git him next year. Thanks for the good info on hunting love it. Its all about the mindset never give up and eventually you will succeed in your goal
I hear ya Seth. If you can carry it and it doesn't bother you, I'm all in. Go for it. Like you said, it absolutely helps on recoil. Good luck out there this Fall man!