@@shaulov10 i mean without the money, they literally weren't able to make an actually good game back then. perhaps, if like the commenter said, they got more money 10 years earlier, 2010s would have been one of the best years for sonic
I wish we had a darker/actually consistent serious tone for the game and a much grittier, darker colour scheme. Would have made stages like sunset height look amazing and make me enjoy the cutscenes
sonic forces is the dmc 2 and the morbius of sonic games, like seriously this game would been so much better if sonic team didn't focus on pleasing the fans but rather making something they wanted to make. and sega better let their developers cook
I think Sonic Team was forced to cook with not enough ingredients, then had to suddenly take it off the cooker and frantically add random toppings to make it look good because the restaurant owner was getting impatient
To it all seems SEGA's fault. They obligated Sonic Team to put in Classic Sonic and tone down the general theme hoping they would get more money that way. We can see that even with the 2 years of actual game development it still could have been better (on the story side at least)
I don’t think a game has ever pissed me off more than this. When Forces was revealed back in 2016 I was so hyped and remembered thinking “this was gonna be peak. Sonic fans are finally eating after so many years.” That e3 villains trailer only amplified my hype. And then the game came out and everything just came crashing down. This was by far the biggest blue ball I have ever experienced.
@@Animizathor9163 It’s not as bad as 06 and Lyric but it’s still bad and painfully boring. I thought it wasn’t that bad also at first but when I actually played it, I fucking hated it.
@@justjabari6430 Damn I disagree with that. I despise Forces but I hate 06 even more. For me, a broken and unplayable game is worse than a playable but boring game. I’ll give 06 credit for Shadow’s story and of course P-06 being the baller remake it is.
Forces kinda needs to be remade from the ground up to be it's full potential, while we only need a fan remake to fix bugs for Sonic 06 I'm starting to notice a pattern, the higher the potential, the worse the game and I don't even know why
Ive seen a couple of these before, like the Green Hill and Luminous Forest concepts, but those various city concepts has me flabbergasted. Theyre so unique and have amazing sense of scale, especially compared to City from the final game
Damn these concept artworks look good. I know these aren't in the video, but I kinda wish we got the unused Avatar species without having to resort to modding, tbh. If they're not gonna do my boy Tails justice, at least let me play pretend.
Probably because it would have been faster and cheaper to make what currently exists than that, even though it would have made the wait so much more worth it. Turns out, they actually knew what they were doing, they just couldn't. Who would've known?
That's why Team Velocity is building Sonic Forces: RE-BOOSTED, our fangame! Forces was great until they moved it to HE2, because they didn't get time to optimize it in HE2 or port anything from the old build due to Havok copyright issues. I still think it's pretty as hell, the prettiest 3D Sonic game till date, but I WISH this was the case. Until then, RE-BOOSTED will have to do :))
Reminds of Epic Mickey, they both have pretty good concept art with an amazing aesthetic (even though i like Epic Mickey's final version) I always wanted this kind of style with Sonic, not "edgy" necessary, but with these colorful Places we used to know ruined by war, Eggman's technology, and stuff I know some Sonic games did this before, but it would be amazing to what it could have been with modern Sonic
Glad someone actually took the time to do this, it's surprising how little was the group of people that actually knew about this and weren't into the "hur dur sonic team lazy made game bad" bandwagon some obnoxious "sonictubers" said some years ago and the fandom decided to copy-paste as a fact This game suffered what 06 but I'd say even worse, because, despite not being broken as 06 it clearly had to be done and rebuild so many times that in time, it forgot what it tried to be so much it ended up being pretty dull, a shade of what the gameplay used to be with a Story so shallow it hurts just to see the potential it already had by it's own
That "destroyed Sunset Heights" image would have been one hell of a tone. Instead of ending up in the city, saving a crowd and being smacked around, you show up and there's no one to save anymore. Wonder if they could have ruined *that* with the atrocious dialogue too?
What I think is that, if they had more time, and if Kishimoto was the one to lead the team, sonic forces would have been remembered as one of the best sonic games
As well as considering that he could have pulled what he did with Frontiers and listen to feedback to help improve the game(not at the same level but it would still be there).
IF I WROTE Sonic forces, it wouldn't even classify as Sonic as the MC. (Synopsis) • While Sonic the hedgehog battles eggman after The mad Scientist successfully takes over the world, Shadow fights a battle of his own created by himself. He faces off against leader of the Jackal squad, Infinite who seeks to use the Phantom Ruby's power to wreak Havoc around the world by creating shadow clones and Holograms to do his bidding to sully Shadow's good name. (Must note) • Phantom Ruby's power gives user access to victims Memory • Infinite goes back to Shadow's past • Infinite uses Shadow's past to trap him Trivia: • Story relates to Sonic 06(Shadow's story)where mephiles claims humanity will turn on shadow despite his efforts and will see him as a threat. Infinite is to Revive that speculation and turn his close ones against him by having the Phantom ruby produce clones framing Shadow. •
Interesting. Making shadow the main character would be cool. Personally what I would do is have infinite trap sonic in null space for the whole game and have Sonics friends be the main focus.
@@shaulov10 I was also thinking of Having everyone get rid of the Phantom ruby, But Forget Sonic is in Null Space which results in him Dissappearing into Sonic Mania.
Tails LOSING It? That's something i want to see! Can you imagine? Knuckles has his soldiers But tails would have a whole ARMY of planes, robots And only hatred towards eggman
The real problem is that it seems that no one (at least until Frontiers) trusted Sonic Team to make their game like how they conceptualized it. Clearly they knew what they were doing, but they never got the chance to do things how they wanted to do, with the right budget, time and peoples. Can't wait for Update 3 and their next big project cause we really might be in the renaissance of SonicTeam. Btw, can't wait for Sonic Forces Overclocked, this look so hype and much closer to what Sonic team envisioned when making Forces
@@shaulov10 I found this video which includes information that could make for a good part 2 of this which even brings up early script which are reportedly available and even reveals information production information at the end. ua-cam.com/video/bogqOLUAmYk/v-deo.html
In my opinion, there’s no saving the Forces that we have. It’s a mess of a game. The only way I can see it reaching it’s potential and getting amazing scores and reviews is to start from scratch with all these ideas. Definitely a Synder Cut
The concept art is just the *tip* of the iceberg for what we missed out on. At one point, an early draft of the script for Sonic Forces leaked revealing so much scrapped content. One key difference between the final product and this early script is motherfucking *Mephiles The Dark* was going to be one of the illusions heard about after Eggman merges the Phantom Ruby (under a completely different name in the early script) with that weird "Death Egg Robot." So on top of the general tone being much more dark and the plot was going make much more sense compared to the final version, we were going to get a cameo of one of the most infamous characters in the mainline Sonic franchise. The Cutting Room Floor has a pre-release section dedicated to the early Japanese script and a link to another link to a pastebin with said early script translated by Windii.
@@shaulov10 This isn't the first time Mephiles has made an appearance in some capacity. (And certainly not the first time '06 has been referenced throughout the franchise.) In Sonic Rivals 2 one of the obtainable cards is if Mephiles in his crystalized form. In Sonic Generations Mephiles makes a cameo via a screenshot of Sonic '06. The first time he made a proper physical return was in the defunct Sonic Runners as a playable Speed type character. He later reappeared in Sonic Forces: Speed Battle as both an enemy and an unlockable character in his own event. Throughout the series there have been numerous references to Sonic '06. Either through mentioning specific events/characters, through collectable items or by including stages and/or music from the game.
@@shaulov10 True, but as usual someone at SEGA got cold feet and scrapped pretty a good chunk of the ideas from the early script and concept art which resulted in the game feeling not only incomplete, but also forced. Like they needed the game to be released soon like their lives depended on it.
4 years of making the game might not even be representative of the actual work put into the game. In addition to spending 2 years making the engine, apparently, during that time, Sonic Team was in the middle of a reshuffling, where most of the team's veterans where moved over to the newly revived Sonic Team USA branch. (I don't know what that branch been up to since and whether they still exist.) Leaving the Sonic Forces Team more understaffed then usual, with a lot of under-experienced members remaining.
@@shaulov10 Let's not forget Sonic Runners (2015) was made by Sonic Team directly. That was considered a mainline entry by the dev, with talk of Sonic potentially going full mobile for awhile. That ended up not happening. Not sure how related that is to the revived Sonic Team USA. Did they made Sonic Runners or the Sonic Forces team? (Not gonna lie. Sonic Runners was a decent mobile game. Kinda wish it got a re-release.)
Sonic runners was actually really fun. They killed it cause of the 2.0 update. They tried bringing it back with runners adventure but it wasent the same
@@shaulov10 And like 06 has its own level of bad, because it's fucking hilarious, and sometimes really cool. hell, the level design is even good in 06. Forces on the other hand.. Hold x button to win :/
I honestly don't think anyone would be opposed to seeing a Forces reimagining sometime in the future, considering that Sonic Team seems to be in a much better situation now that Frontiers has released. You never know, right?
I have a love hate relationship with SEGA for this very reason. Had it not been for them, Sonic would not be a thing today, but it’s also because of them that Sonic could have very well also not still be here today. Especially after Frontiers and hearing about the development hell that game went through as well, I feel awful for Sonic Team and really wish SEGA would have given them the proper resources, manpower, and time to truly fulfill their vision every time. But hey! Let’s at least be thankful that Frontiers WAS successful and that Sonic Team finally seems to be getting the message through to SEGA that they need more time and resources to be successful (I hope).
It’s really a shame. Cause we can see that when we do get a budget. The games quality is high. Now you can say what you want about unleashed but that game has such a fine level of detail that we haven’t seen in years. So hopefully the next game is similar on on the same level.
I always took the alternate dimension line to be a mistranslated way of saying that Classic Sonic is Moderns Younger self from a new alternate timeline. A new alternate timeline was created after the events of Generations, we know that because Modern Sonic does not remember any of the events of Generations from when he experienced them as Classic/Younger self. So during and after Generations, that classic Sonic is now on a new timeline due to him experiencing Generations.
@@shaulov10 I honestly prefer the alternate dimension/timeline explanation; I think it was just really badly explained and told. My gripe with him just being from the past is that I feel like putting him in an alternate timeline would give the potential to do a lot of things with Classic Sonic and explore a lot of ideas; especially story and character ones and you don't have to worry how this affects the future canon of Modern Sonic. Wouldn't be the first disagreement I've had with Flynn.
0:35 they had 1 year of game development the first 2 were for the hedgehog engine the next year was brainstorming then they spent a single year building it from scratch
imagine if the Jackal Squad from the prequel comics in IDW had a role in the game at all, there are 4 of them, if they all had infinit'es power, maybe they could each have an outfit based on the concept art, there is 5 in total (including infinite's final design)
Small bit of info for ya! It's not exactly sega that makes the games. Sonic Team are the brains behind the projects. The concept, art, and work is from them and them alone. Sega is the one who determines the budget and time that goes into a game. Sonic Team may be willing but Sega has a weak sense of adventure. Sega doesn't care if the game is undercooked or not. All they see are numbers. So really, all they care for is the money Sonic makes. Luckily in recent times Sonic Team fought for at least one more year of development for sonic frontiers and Sega allowed it. And now that sonic is receiving such a good reputation and is the most sold sonic game in history; Sega wants to put more time and effort into. The team and the sonic games. So it's nice to see that the team really does care for the franchise. It just sucks that Sega hasn't learned a thing since 06. (Until now I think...)
Yeah. I have my problems with SEGA. So many problems could be solved if they just gave sonic team a bigger budget. More experienced talent and a longer development time. Thankfully with the success of Sonic Frontiers. Sonic team will be getting a bigger budget
Correction: The Hedgehog Engine 2 actually took 3 years, not 2. This lead to Sonic Forces becoming a rushed game, as it only had 1 "real" year of development. This also explains why these pieces of concept art could've been cut.
I can't help but imagine action and a journey right up there with the best of the Transformers Bayverse: A delight for action junkies whenever it's good. If only...
Honestly instead of having OC as character that no gives a hell about it would’ve been SICK if game focused on Tails! Imagine after it was tails fault that sonic lost fight with infinite he goes through some redemption arc, also could’ve been perfect excuse for the gears the oc character uses and make it that tails was the one to invent the gadgets through his adventure. Maybe when breaking robots he gets scrapped pieces, with those he can craft different gadgets for him to equip. Maybe even being able to play as tails in tornado in one level! It’s such a missed opportunity to make tails become his old brave self, saving sonic on end of game, would’ve been perfect! Tails could’ve been known as a hero! But no, instead they chose an OC character to main the game.
@@shaulov10 Sure, but you gave no examples of poor English dialogue and started discussing them right after talking about story beats you were unhappy with, something they weren't involved with. That part of the video probably could've been structured a little better
Now image if these concepts were put into a Frontiers successor. Forces' stages were a minute long and were boring, but an "open zone" made out of these areas, especially metropolis, would be pretty cool
Oh what could’ve been with Forces, I love a lot of what it does but the fact the Level Design and Level Length is so Lacking prevents me from calling it Good. An interesting Fact is Sunset Heights was the First Level Sonic Team worked on, had that been the Starting Point with the game getting better and better, then it would’ve been a Pretty Great Game. So glad Sonic Forces Re-imagined exists, it gives us a Glimpse into the Lost Potential.
I actually played a bit of re-imagined and yeah the level design is a definite improvement. Something that also plagued this game is the control. Sonic has almost no turn control at high speeds. His acceleration is way to fast. Classic sonic is a whole other can of worms. This game has so much potential and it pains me to see what could have been
I have a little crazy theory of that the group of whisper the wolf was gonna play the ologramic villains role in the game originaly serving as rivals to the avatar thanks to they wisp weapons but the group where cut from teh game and idw putted them (or well rather whisper and mimic) in the comics as heroes
The earlier versions of the script didn’t necessarily help from what I’ve seen in examination videos of the early scripts. It still has random holes but certain moments are shifted in tone
It kind of looks like a mix between sonic colors ultimate but actually pleasing to the eye sonic frontiers, and those Fnaf 28 bit mini games and maybe Sega Saturn graphics
Forces was rushed no doubt about ut That 4 years was a complete waste of tine. My theory on why forces is so bad is because it was a very unstable project constantly stopping/starting develipment and was given proper resources. Forces is basically a lost world and generations asset flip with good graphics Everything else is garbo.
@@shaulov10 considering how Sonic Team is working on the dlc for Frontiers and then some while we wait, it isn't surprising. What I am surprised about is how nobody has tried turning these concepts into actual levels yet
Man it sucks that Forces had so much potential on being a really great sonic game by the Concept Art And Possibly scrapped ideas that sonic team had in mind
Yeah. But I still feel like that game still needed a complete overhaul. The controls suck. The character writing is bad. A lot needed to change. Wish Sonic team didn’t try to downplay everything
Tbh i think infinite would be fun as an antagonist similar to how morro was in lego ninjago. The idea of the phantom ruby being sentient is more creative than simply it being used as a tool. Name one mcguffin that was evil and not simply.in the wrong hands or misunderstood.
My only problem with forces is the fact you can’t make your hedgehog look like sonic shadow or silver like body wise and stuff if they let you do that and customize your move set instead and make weapons optional while keeping the clothing options etc it would be a 10/10 for me just bc of that
I still enjoy Forces but personally, I believe the reason why the game didn't end up reaching the greatness it could have had might've had something to do with the massive amount of money lost from the Sonic Boom license. They spent a lot of money to build up Boom as a new subseries for the past 3 years before Forces released only for the games to sell poorly and the show (despite my love for it) getting placed in a dismal time slot. I think that massive money loss bled into Forces hence why Sonic Team barely got a budget. Could be wrong, but the two are so close to one another that I think it's hard not to consider the two might be connected.
If it weren’t for Frontiers, I probably would’ve left the community for good. It's clear that they no longer cared for the game as it was actually being developed. And when I say the writers did everyone dirty, I mean it.
Same. Forces was nearly my breaking point. After forces I kinda left the fan base for a good while. Then when frontiers was announced. I decided to give this series one more chance. And as you can see I’m still here
@@shaulov10 Awesome! Frontiers is literally my favorite game of all time. Like, I never had a favorite game until this came out. We need a sequel, for real.
I can't believe they knew what they were doing. So glad Sonic Team is getting more of a budget, just wish it happened 10 years earlier
Sega only started to care when they started making money. SMH
@@shaulov10 i mean
without the money, they literally weren't able to make an actually good game back then.
perhaps, if like the commenter said, they got more money 10 years earlier, 2010s would have been one of the best years for sonic
sega stopped giving them money because everyone was dumb for some reason and thought unleashed was shit
@@Royal_Khlcken Sega is that one friend who is so vulnerable to criticism and just cries when someone calls them out on their bs
@@thatdoofus4529 holy crap you pinpointed it no other name would fit lol
I wish we had a darker/actually consistent serious tone for the game and a much grittier, darker colour scheme. Would have made stages like sunset height look amazing and make me enjoy the cutscenes
THATS WHAT IM SAYING MAN
@@shaulov10 WOULD HAVE MADE THIS MOVIE FEEL IMMERSIVE!
@@sonicgamer178
I'm with him on this
i love sonic forces it’s one of my favourite movies it’s almost like i’m playing a game
Yeah. The power boost scene makes me FEEL like I’m sonic
@@shaulov10 when classic sonic appeared i shit a pissed myself simultaneously gotta be one of best horror scenes in all of fiction
I nearly had a heart attacks. That’s how scared I was.
@@shaulov10 i love how sonic didn’t give a fuck about getting tortured it just shows how cool and blue he is
If they made it a 3h animated movie it would've been better lol
sonic forces is the dmc 2 and the morbius of sonic games,
like seriously this game would been so much better if sonic team didn't focus on pleasing the fans but rather making something they wanted to make.
and sega better let their developers cook
THATS WHAT IM SAYING. We look at frontiers and sonic team made the game THEY wanted to make. And that game came out good
I really wish they would've made Green Hill look like the concept art
The sand everywhere just feels weird like... *how* is there sand everywhere?!
A lot of forces makes no sense to me
@@shaulov10it forces you to use your brain
I think Sonic Team was forced to cook with not enough ingredients, then had to suddenly take it off the cooker and frantically add random toppings to make it look good because the restaurant owner was getting impatient
I love how we can talk about game development in cooking terms
@@shaulov10anything that requires effort and its commanded over somebody can be used to explain game development
To it all seems SEGA's fault. They obligated Sonic Team to put in Classic Sonic and tone down the general theme hoping they would get more money that way. We can see that even with the 2 years of actual game development it still could have been better (on the story side at least)
Man sega always fuckin over all of their studios. They are dead ass one of the worst publishers of in the market right now.
I don’t think a game has ever pissed me off more than this. When Forces was revealed back in 2016 I was so hyped and remembered thinking “this was gonna be peak. Sonic fans are finally eating after so many years.” That e3 villains trailer only amplified my hype. And then the game came out and everything just came crashing down. This was by far the biggest blue ball I have ever experienced.
Same. This game was so bad for me I nearly left the franchise. If it wasent for frontiers I wouldn’t even be a sonic fan anymore
Dame dude, the game wasn't bad, but wasn't what i expected. I was so hyped too
@@Animizathor9163 It’s not as bad as 06 and Lyric but it’s still bad and painfully boring. I thought it wasn’t that bad also at first but when I actually played it, I fucking hated it.
@@SonicSwift99man it’s worst than 06, I’d rather play 06 than forces fr
@@justjabari6430 Damn I disagree with that. I despise Forces but I hate 06 even more. For me, a broken and unplayable game is worse than a playable but boring game. I’ll give 06 credit for Shadow’s story and of course P-06 being the baller remake it is.
I’m glad we got frontiers after this. Frontiers is a really damn good but like after seeing this I agree with you. I feel robbed 😭
More than robbed. It’s like the bank repossessed my house
@@shaulov10 fr man, the whole swat team came into my house and took everything
ua-cam.com/video/VBOBUfpVQOQ/v-deo.html
I think Forces had the second highest potential in the whole sonic series, only after 06
Yeah. This game could have been really cool. The idea of egg man winning sounds so cool.
@@shaulov10 we really really really need forces remade 😭
screw pontac & graff, erase forces' story and let flynn make a new one
At this point I think it’s more likely a Project forces is more likely than a official remake.
Forces kinda needs to be remade from the ground up to be it's full potential, while we only need a fan remake to fix bugs for Sonic 06
I'm starting to notice a pattern, the higher the potential, the worse the game and I don't even know why
@R17 Too ?
Bro did not have to jumpscare me like that at 3:00. But damn forces in concept is actually insane.
I LOVE GAMBLING 🤑🤑🤑
Ive seen a couple of these before, like the Green Hill and Luminous Forest concepts, but those various city concepts has me flabbergasted. Theyre so unique and have amazing sense of scale, especially compared to City from the final game
I know. It gives the game a much different look. Wish it was added into the game
Damn these concept artworks look good.
I know these aren't in the video, but I kinda wish we got the unused Avatar species without having to resort to modding, tbh. If they're not gonna do my boy Tails justice, at least let me play pretend.
They really cut a lot of cool things from this game. It’s like a watered down version of a sonic game
This actually hurt to watch, more areas that look so much better than what we got, WHY DID THEY CUT IT ALL OUT
This vidoe hurt to make. I was so upset at all the things they cut
Probably because it would have been faster and cheaper to make what currently exists than that, even though it would have made the wait so much more worth it. Turns out, they actually knew what they were doing, they just couldn't. Who would've known?
tine constraints, forces was developed FOR A SINGLE YEAR before release
Like I’m genuinely sad about all the cool things that were cut.
That’s fucking mental. No game should have that little time to make anything. Even DLC
If forces took all the concepts from the concept art we might be looking at the best boost game
Quite possibly
Not even close. Can't even touch colors and that's 2.5D 😂
I'm sorry, I'm already married to Unleashed.
That's why Team Velocity is building Sonic Forces: RE-BOOSTED, our fangame!
Forces was great until they moved it to HE2, because they didn't get time to optimize it in HE2 or port anything from the old build due to Havok copyright issues.
I still think it's pretty as hell, the prettiest 3D Sonic game till date, but I WISH this was the case. Until then, RE-BOOSTED will have to do :))
Reminds of Epic Mickey, they both have pretty good concept art with an amazing aesthetic (even though i like Epic Mickey's final version)
I always wanted this kind of style with Sonic, not "edgy" necessary, but with these colorful Places we used to know ruined by war, Eggman's technology, and stuff
I know some Sonic games did this before, but it would be amazing to what it could have been with modern Sonic
Man I used to love epic Mickey. Haven’t played that in years. I gotta check the concept art.
@@shaulov10 it's really different, it's freaking terrifying
@@laudj_art I've heard the concept art was only made to test how much Disney would let them get away with and wasn't actually intended to be used
Glad someone actually took the time to do this, it's surprising how little was the group of people that actually knew about this and weren't into the "hur dur sonic team lazy made game bad" bandwagon some obnoxious "sonictubers" said some years ago and the fandom decided to copy-paste as a fact
This game suffered what 06 but I'd say even worse, because, despite not being broken as 06 it clearly had to be done and rebuild so many times that in time, it forgot what it tried to be so much it ended up being pretty dull, a shade of what the gameplay used to be with a Story so shallow it hurts just to see the potential it already had by it's own
Their was so much potential that was here and it was just thrown away. Making this vid made me legitimately sad
That "destroyed Sunset Heights" image would have been one hell of a tone. Instead of ending up in the city, saving a crowd and being smacked around, you show up and there's no one to save anymore.
Wonder if they could have ruined *that* with the atrocious dialogue too?
That’s another thing. Even if we got all of these scenes. Pontaff would have probably ruined the mood with their dog water script
What I think is that, if they had more time, and if Kishimoto was the one to lead the team, sonic forces would have been remembered as one of the best sonic games
It’s fun to imagine what could have been. But it’s also kinda sad
As well as considering that he could have pulled what he did with Frontiers and listen to feedback to help improve the game(not at the same level but it would still be there).
Congrats on the 1k + lad keep going
Thank you lad
Tbh its interesting with the concept art. Heck it looks cool. Forces could've been better, but greed brings ruin, and ruin destroys money
Bro was cooking some bars
my heart skipped a few beats when you said "GAMBLING" 2:54
I LOVE GAMBLING🤑🤑🤑🤑🤑💰💰💰🤑🎰🎰🎰🤑🤑
WE NEED SONIC FORCES REMASTERED.
WITH IAN FLYNN AS THE STORY LEADER, NO QUESTIONS ASKED
IF I WROTE Sonic forces, it wouldn't even classify as Sonic as the MC.
(Synopsis)
• While Sonic the hedgehog battles eggman after The mad Scientist successfully takes over the world, Shadow fights a battle of his own created by himself. He faces off against leader of the Jackal squad, Infinite who seeks to use the Phantom Ruby's power to wreak Havoc around the world by creating shadow clones and Holograms to do his bidding to sully Shadow's good name.
(Must note)
• Phantom Ruby's power gives user access to victims Memory
• Infinite goes back to Shadow's past
• Infinite uses Shadow's past to trap him
Trivia:
• Story relates to Sonic 06(Shadow's story)where mephiles claims humanity will turn on shadow despite his efforts and will see him as a threat. Infinite is to Revive that speculation and turn his close ones against him by having the Phantom ruby produce clones framing Shadow.
•
Interesting. Making shadow the main character would be cool. Personally what I would do is have infinite trap sonic in null space for the whole game and have Sonics friends be the main focus.
@@shaulov10 I was DEFINITELY gonna trap Sonic or Somebody in null space.
@@shaulov10 I was also thinking of Having everyone get rid of the Phantom ruby, But Forget Sonic is in Null Space which results in him Dissappearing into Sonic Mania.
There's a lot more could be put into ultilizing infinite and the MC themselves more, and expand their backstories
Tails LOSING It?
That's something i want to see!
Can you imagine?
Knuckles has his soldiers
But tails would have a whole ARMY of planes, robots
And only hatred towards eggman
His rant on Null space was hilarious
I’m Still salty bout null space
@@shaulov10 😆. I don't blame you dude
Sonic Forces explained in 12 minutes.
Basically
@@shaulov10 Another example of a relatively fresh idea
"the whole city's on fire!"
“That tornado is carrying a car!”
ua-cam.com/video/VBOBUfpVQOQ/v-deo.html
Hope these ideas can be reused for future games. The same can be said for the rest of the concept art. Cause I find it very interesting
Hopefully one day. It would be a shame for such cool ideas to go to waste
This is why I like frontiers more than forces also in tailstube they say classic sonic is sonic from the past
Yeah. Tails tube is such a nice little series for lore and stuff
All the budget went into the music
Tbh the soundtrack is aight with a few bangers.
@@shaulov10 word
The real problem is that it seems that no one (at least until Frontiers) trusted Sonic Team to make their game like how they conceptualized it. Clearly they knew what they were doing, but they never got the chance to do things how they wanted to do, with the right budget, time and peoples. Can't wait for Update 3 and their next big project cause we really might be in the renaissance of SonicTeam. Btw, can't wait for Sonic Forces Overclocked, this look so hype and much closer to what Sonic team envisioned when making Forces
Sonic Forces is one of my favorite mobile games
My favorite game for the PS vita
@@shaulov10 I’m talking about sonic forces speed battle
Oh. Yeah that’s kinda fun ngl
Forces definitely would've been all that and a bag of chips, had "stuff" not happened 😂
Great video!
I like them purple doritos
@@shaulov10 💯
Actually I think the whole debate on whether he is from another dimension or the past is actually brought up at one point latter in the comics.
Also I’m pretty sure they confirmed in a tails tube that he’s from the past
@@shaulov10 I found this video which includes information that could make for a good part 2 of this which even brings up early script which are reportedly available and even reveals information production information at the end.
ua-cam.com/video/bogqOLUAmYk/v-deo.html
Yeah I saw this video. Maybe I could make a part 2. Sonic forces seems to be the game with the most interesting cut content
@@shaulov10 plus they should add some of this including some of the script details to the mod.
@@disneyboy3030 that would be cool. I feel like the biggest problems with forces are the story and the actual gameplay.
sonic being tortured and tails losing it was a mistranslation
Bruh. Pontaff really sucked at their job
In my opinion, there’s no saving the Forces that we have. It’s a mess of a game. The only way I can see it reaching it’s potential and getting amazing scores and reviews is to start from scratch with all these ideas. Definitely a Synder Cut
The concept art is just the *tip* of the iceberg for what we missed out on.
At one point, an early draft of the script for Sonic Forces leaked revealing so much scrapped content. One key difference between the final product and this early script is motherfucking *Mephiles The Dark* was going to be one of the illusions heard about after Eggman merges the Phantom Ruby (under a completely different name in the early script) with that weird "Death Egg Robot."
So on top of the general tone being much more dark and the plot was going make much more sense compared to the final version, we were going to get a cameo of one of the most infamous characters in the mainline Sonic franchise.
The Cutting Room Floor has a pre-release section dedicated to the early Japanese script and a link to another link to a pastebin with said early script translated by Windii.
JESUS mephilis. I never though sonic team would ever even touch 06 against that’s actually really cool
@@shaulov10 This isn't the first time Mephiles has made an appearance in some capacity. (And certainly not the first time '06 has been referenced throughout the franchise.)
In Sonic Rivals 2 one of the obtainable cards is if Mephiles in his crystalized form. In Sonic Generations Mephiles makes a cameo via a screenshot of Sonic '06.
The first time he made a proper physical return was in the defunct Sonic Runners as a playable Speed type character. He later reappeared in Sonic Forces: Speed Battle as both an enemy and an unlockable character in his own event.
Throughout the series there have been numerous references to Sonic '06. Either through mentioning specific events/characters, through collectable items or by including stages and/or music from the game.
@@justsomesimplenuclearbirbs4313 yeah but the fact that he was even considered to be brought back in a MAIN LINE GAME is crazy to me.
@@shaulov10 True, but as usual someone at SEGA got cold feet and scrapped pretty a good chunk of the ideas from the early script and concept art which resulted in the game feeling not only incomplete, but also forced.
Like they needed the game to be released soon like their lives depended on it.
Im glad we are in a better position then sonic forces😊
We are in SUCH a better spot now thanks to Frontiers
@@shaulov10 forces coulda been awesome but of course sonic team always misses opportunities
the villa town kinda looks like spagonia from unleashed or soleanna from 06
Kinda. I see more soleanna that spagonia.
4 years of making the game might not even be representative of the actual work put into the game. In addition to spending 2 years making the engine, apparently, during that time, Sonic Team was in the middle of a reshuffling, where most of the team's veterans where moved over to the newly revived Sonic Team USA branch. (I don't know what that branch been up to since and whether they still exist.) Leaving the Sonic Forces Team more understaffed then usual, with a lot of under-experienced members remaining.
Sonic team was really in the trenches for a few years. Finally it seems they got things back in order. I hope so at least
@@shaulov10 Let's not forget Sonic Runners (2015) was made by Sonic Team directly. That was considered a mainline entry by the dev, with talk of Sonic potentially going full mobile for awhile. That ended up not happening. Not sure how related that is to the revived Sonic Team USA. Did they made Sonic Runners or the Sonic Forces team?
(Not gonna lie. Sonic Runners was a decent mobile game. Kinda wish it got a re-release.)
Sonic runners was actually really fun. They killed it cause of the 2.0 update. They tried bringing it back with runners adventure but it wasent the same
@@GameMaster-ig8oo seems Sega didn't learn the last time when you split the team during a game's development
This games development reminds me of Sonic 06's development. Both of them werre intended to be great, but came out wrong.
Kind of. But I feel like sonic 06 was made with passion. Despite the bugs and story. While forces just feels lifeless
@@shaulov10 And like 06 has its own level of bad, because it's fucking hilarious, and sometimes really cool. hell, the level design is even good in 06. Forces on the other hand.. Hold x button to win :/
I do agree with with you bro 😔
We were robbed by freaking sonic forces 🤬
This game is such a waste of potential
@@shaulov10your right bro 😌
I honestly don't think anyone would be opposed to seeing a Forces reimagining sometime in the future, considering that Sonic Team seems to be in a much better situation now that Frontiers has released. You never know, right?
2:06 i've never seen that one
I know. I just found out about it when making this vid and it looks INCREDIBLE
I have a love hate relationship with SEGA for this very reason. Had it not been for them, Sonic would not be a thing today, but it’s also because of them that Sonic could have very well also not still be here today. Especially after Frontiers and hearing about the development hell that game went through as well, I feel awful for Sonic Team and really wish SEGA would have given them the proper resources, manpower, and time to truly fulfill their vision every time.
But hey! Let’s at least be thankful that Frontiers WAS successful and that Sonic Team finally seems to be getting the message through to SEGA that they need more time and resources to be successful (I hope).
It’s really a shame. Cause we can see that when we do get a budget. The games quality is high. Now you can say what you want about unleashed but that game has such a fine level of detail that we haven’t seen in years. So hopefully the next game is similar on on the same level.
I always took the alternate dimension line to be a mistranslated way of saying that Classic Sonic is Moderns Younger self from a new alternate timeline.
A new alternate timeline was created after the events of Generations, we know that because Modern Sonic does not remember any of the events of Generations from when he experienced them as Classic/Younger self. So during and after Generations, that classic Sonic is now on a new timeline due to him experiencing Generations.
I’m just glad that Ian Flynn confirmed that he’s from the past and fixed all the confusion
@@shaulov10 I honestly prefer the alternate dimension/timeline explanation; I think it was just really badly explained and told.
My gripe with him just being from the past is that I feel like putting him in an alternate timeline would give the potential to do a lot of things with Classic Sonic and explore a lot of ideas; especially story and character ones and you don't have to worry how this affects the future canon of Modern Sonic.
Wouldn't be the first disagreement I've had with Flynn.
And I don't know why I'm obsessed with the game. Maybe it was because of the theme song.
Man the main theme is like the only decent thing bout the game
Sonic Forces has gotta be one of the sonic games of all time
It’s definitely one of the games of time
@@shaulov10 It definitely is game
It’s game
0:35 they had 1 year of game development the first 2 were for the hedgehog engine the next year was brainstorming then they spent a single year building it from scratch
I reckon that null space was going to be a full boss battle but it got cut due to time constraints
It would have been such a cool fight.
imagine if the Jackal Squad from the prequel comics in IDW had a role in the game at all, there are 4 of them, if they all had infinit'es power, maybe they could each have an outfit based on the concept art, there is 5 in total (including infinite's final design)
Small bit of info for ya!
It's not exactly sega that makes the games.
Sonic Team are the brains behind the projects. The concept, art, and work is from them and them alone.
Sega is the one who determines the budget and time that goes into a game.
Sonic Team may be willing but Sega has a weak sense of adventure. Sega doesn't care if the game is undercooked or not. All they see are numbers. So really, all they care for is the money Sonic makes.
Luckily in recent times Sonic Team fought for at least one more year of development for sonic frontiers and Sega allowed it. And now that sonic is receiving such a good reputation and is the most sold sonic game in history; Sega wants to put more time and effort into. The team and the sonic games.
So it's nice to see that the team really does care for the franchise.
It just sucks that Sega hasn't learned a thing since 06. (Until now I think...)
Yeah. I have my problems with SEGA. So many problems could be solved if they just gave sonic team a bigger budget. More experienced talent and a longer development time. Thankfully with the success of Sonic Frontiers. Sonic team will be getting a bigger budget
i think one of the concept levels got thrown out and replaced by chemical plant
also that villa art looks kinda like spagonia from unleashed
Yeah. Looking back it kinda does.
A script is what makes a video steady, you stuttered here and there and I felt you could use some… improvements 🙂
Honestly, Sonic forces deserves to have a remake.
The game had so much potential.
Never thought I'd hate Forces more than I did before.
Same. Going back to play this made me mad fr
Correction: The Hedgehog Engine 2 actually took 3 years, not 2. This lead to Sonic Forces becoming a rushed game, as it only had 1 "real" year of development. This also explains why these pieces of concept art could've been cut.
HUH? I only thought it was two. Damn. I feel bad for sonic team
@@shaulov10l refuse to believe that
I can't help but imagine action and a journey right up there with the best of the Transformers Bayverse: A delight for action junkies whenever it's good.
If only...
What’s the name of the Shadow boss fight mod? It looks sick
It’s Sonic forces re-imagined. Not really a boss but he’s added to the stage as a set piece
Honestly instead of having OC as character that no gives a hell about it would’ve been SICK if game focused on Tails! Imagine after it was tails fault that sonic lost fight with infinite he goes through some redemption arc, also could’ve been perfect excuse for the gears the oc character uses and make it that tails was the one to invent the gadgets through his adventure. Maybe when breaking robots he gets scrapped pieces, with those he can craft different gadgets for him to equip. Maybe even being able to play as tails in tornado in one level! It’s such a missed opportunity to make tails become his old brave self, saving sonic on end of game, would’ve been perfect! Tails could’ve been known as a hero! But no, instead they chose an OC character to main the game.
Yeah. I would have like if the game focused on Sonics friends more to make the resistance theme feel More impactful
man i wanted this instead of what we got :/
fr man the concept art looks so much better
Can you do Lost World next please.
Sonic [REDACTED] needs a video on it
You are the King of Side Tangents.
Not sure why you went on a Pontac & Graff tangent at the end, they were in charge of the English localisation, not the story itself
Yeah I know but they are responsible for how the characters talk. And they did a shit job in this game
@@shaulov10 Sure, but you gave no examples of poor English dialogue and started discussing them right after talking about story beats you were unhappy with, something they weren't involved with. That part of the video probably could've been structured a little better
Imma be honest wit u chief. I was just pissed with the game and had to let off some steam.
@@shaulov10 I cannot argue that
Actually the writing for Forces were done by Jappenese people who were level designers and not story writers.
Great video, I can smell you from here but great content
Get back to work you bum
Now image if these concepts were put into a Frontiers successor. Forces' stages were a minute long and were boring, but an "open zone" made out of these areas, especially metropolis, would be pretty cool
Oh what could’ve been with Forces, I love a lot of what it does but the fact the Level Design and Level Length is so Lacking prevents me from calling it Good. An interesting Fact is Sunset Heights was the First Level Sonic Team worked on, had that been the Starting Point with the game getting better and better, then it would’ve been a Pretty Great Game. So glad Sonic Forces Re-imagined exists, it gives us a Glimpse into the Lost Potential.
I actually played a bit of re-imagined and yeah the level design is a definite improvement. Something that also plagued this game is the control. Sonic has almost no turn control at high speeds. His acceleration is way to fast. Classic sonic is a whole other can of worms. This game has so much potential and it pains me to see what could have been
I have a little crazy theory of that the group of whisper the wolf was gonna play the ologramic villains role in the game originaly serving as rivals to the avatar thanks to they wisp weapons but the group where cut from teh game and idw putted them (or well rather whisper and mimic) in the comics as heroes
the more we know bout Forces, the more it hurts
do sonic lost world cut content/ what lost world would’ve looked like.
I might
We need more good sonic games like frontiers
FACTS BRO
2:11 i think thats just sunset heights
The earlier versions of the script didn’t necessarily help from what I’ve seen in examination videos of the early scripts. It still has random holes but certain moments are shifted in tone
nice, now i am sad about Sonic Forces of all games
Bro I was so upset while I was making this video.
@@shaulov10 i can understand
It kind of looks like a mix between sonic colors ultimate but actually pleasing to the eye sonic frontiers, and those Fnaf 28 bit mini games and maybe Sega Saturn graphics
Can you do what the murderer of sonic the hedgehog should have been?
Brudda lmao
Honestly I had more fun playing the glitchy 06 than forces
Such a development hell
Game got fucked over
The fans shoulda made Sonic Forces
oh my god sonic forces was going to be good
we need a sonic forces remade
fight me but i dream for this even more than frontiers and a dmc 6
I feel like sonic team wouldn’t touch this game again. They kinda do that with massive failures. It’s sad but true
ua-cam.com/video/VBOBUfpVQOQ/v-deo.html
i thought hedgehog engine 2 was a thing since unleashed
Nah they used hedgehog engine 1 from unleashed to lost world. Then they made hedgehog engine 2 for forces
1:41 🎉
LET HIM COOK!!
6:00 the Japanese word for "timeline" and "dimension" are the same: "world". That's what caused the mistranslation.
Oh so Pontaff just really suck at their job
Forces was rushed no doubt about ut
That 4 years was a complete waste of tine.
My theory on why forces is so bad is because it was a very unstable project constantly stopping/starting develipment and was given proper resources.
Forces is basically a lost world and generations asset flip with good graphics
Everything else is garbo.
That and they also spent the first two years developing the hedgehog engine leaving only 2 years to actually make the game
ua-cam.com/video/VBOBUfpVQOQ/v-deo.html
I think all what we got should work more better in a anime than a videogame
We NEED a Forces remake
I think the modding community would do it before sonic team themselves
@@shaulov10 considering how Sonic Team is working on the dlc for Frontiers and then some while we wait, it isn't surprising. What I am surprised about is how nobody has tried turning these concepts into actual levels yet
It’s because no one knows of them. We gotta spread these so that more people know about them
@@shaulov10 and hopefully modders will work their magic and turn these concepts into actual levels and make the Sonic Forces we could have gotten
@@shaulov10 When you said that Forces had almost as much potential as 06, I thought of P-06
Man it sucks that Forces had so much potential on being a really great sonic game by the Concept Art And Possibly scrapped ideas that sonic team had in mind
Yeah. But I still feel like that game still needed a complete overhaul. The controls suck. The character writing is bad. A lot needed to change. Wish Sonic team didn’t try to downplay everything
@@shaulov10 Yeah Especially infinite’s Concept designs look more cooler than the finished design of him
@@shaulov10 ua-cam.com/video/bqVjHRm1hT4/v-deo.html
ua-cam.com/video/VBOBUfpVQOQ/v-deo.html This Is About To Get Real
Can someone make a mod based on these.
Oh boy do I have some news for you. Check out sonic forces reboosted
@@shaulov10 I left another comment on there about Classic Sonic.
Tbh i think infinite would be fun as an antagonist similar to how morro was in lego ninjago. The idea of the phantom ruby being sentient is more creative than simply it being used as a tool. Name one mcguffin that was evil and not simply.in the wrong hands or misunderstood.
I think the idea of the phantom Ruby being sentient is clever.
A thing I didn’t like about the game was classic sonic had a floaty jump and the boost was stiff kinda
This games controls were not fun. That was made very apperant when I played it for the gameplay
My only problem with forces is the fact you can’t make your hedgehog look like sonic shadow or silver like body wise and stuff if they let you do that and customize your move set instead and make weapons optional while keeping the clothing options etc it would be a 10/10 for me just bc of that
The same as 06.. so so much potential but it couldn’t be achieved. Just sad because these games would be BANGERS
I hate the fact that one of the coolest features of the game that is the character creator being "locked" in a game with such a lost potential.
I still enjoy Forces but personally, I believe the reason why the game didn't end up reaching the greatness it could have had might've had something to do with the massive amount of money lost from the Sonic Boom license. They spent a lot of money to build up Boom as a new subseries for the past 3 years before Forces released only for the games to sell poorly and the show (despite my love for it) getting placed in a dismal time slot. I think that massive money loss bled into Forces hence why Sonic Team barely got a budget. Could be wrong, but the two are so close to one another that I think it's hard not to consider the two might be connected.
I loved the idea of sonic forces I just hate how it turned out but of course the soundtrack was still a banger
If it weren’t for Frontiers, I probably would’ve left the community for good. It's clear that they no longer cared for the game as it was actually being developed.
And when I say the writers did everyone dirty, I mean it.
Same. Forces was nearly my breaking point. After forces I kinda left the fan base for a good while. Then when frontiers was announced. I decided to give this series one more chance. And as you can see I’m still here
@@shaulov10 Awesome! Frontiers is literally my favorite game of all time. Like, I never had a favorite game until this came out. We need a sequel, for real.
Too be honest, I actually enjoyed Forces!