My issue with modern localism is that with the skyrocketing cost of living by the ocean, it essentially turns into gatekeeping the poor out by the wealthy. The only localism I encountered growing up in Florida was from the kids of lawyers and dentists who felt entitled to the best spots because they were fortunate enough to be from a family that could afford to live by them.
Locals now just refer to someone that frequents a beach. It doesn’t have to be living next to it. If you put in your time at a break for years you deserve a certain degree of respect or entitlement to the wave. A very small degree of deservedness but still some. As long as someone’s not a Dick about it
As a 45 year old, 6'1", 250+ pound Hawaiian, I'm pretty much a local wherever I paddle out... or at least I'm treated that way. But whenever I paddle out at a new spot, or where i don't know anybody, I give the peak to the locals and wait my turn - a lesson I learned a long time ago when I watched a guy paddle straight to the top of the lineup at V-land, and Perry Dane looked at him, squinted his eyes and said, "You must be the toughest guy on the block, eh." He paddled in pretty quick, I waited my turn. By the end of the session Perry and the boys were hooting me into waves. Give respect and get it back.
I have autism and surf. I’m not very socially normal. I’m always awkward. People mistaken me for being unfriendly or for being a jerk but it’s just my personality. I don’t process things the same way. I get harassed so much in California all the time because of this. It’s scary and I wish people didn’t jump to conclusions in the lineup. Any suggestions or opinions from anyone are welcome.
what if you get a shirt that is autism related(like autism awareness or autism for surf), or something on your wetsuit that way it could potentially let other surfers know that way theyd be more aware so they are less inclined to harass you? that way you dont have to explain to them
Wear that cap that says "Please be patient I have autism" Wear a SPED helmet Get one of those disability dogs and surf with it Ok an actual serious suggestion: just count how many people are in the lineup when you get there and let that number of people have a wave before you go. It's just a lineup, nothing complicated, and I'm sure you understand how lineups work at the grocery store. If it's messy and there isn't a certain point break, then it doesn't matter as much because it's more like whoever's at the right spot at the right time gets the wave, nobody else physically can because it's inconsistent. If you see a person consistently getting wave after wave while there's a bunch waiting, then, in my ignorant opinion, just take the wave as long as it's safe. They had their turn
Surf where other people aren't. That's what I do, as a matter of choice, and creativity. I like to peace out, and compete with the surf, not other people.
As a local who surfs a extremely crowded break(Pacifica State Beach also known as Linda mar) just south of San Fransisco it does get frustrating when the wave storm squad shows up on weekends or when it’s nice out. It becomes extremely dangerous( I have been run over before and had my head sliced open by a fin which required 10 staples) but instead of becoming violent or taking out my frustration on them i go with the educational approach. If someone drops in on me or doesn’t wait there turn in the line up I educate them on proper surfing etiquette. I am also a surf instructor and it feels really good to know I’m making a positive impact in the lineup by teaching people how to properly conduct themselves while in the ocean. A little localism isn’t bad but as soon as it turns violent that’s we’re the line has to be drawn, Let’s be honest almost every experienced surfer was a kook at one point haha
Agree with what you said about letting people know about their mistakes without getting mad at them. You are an exception there because I haven't come across anyone who does that But you absolutely have no claim to a break like Pacifica. It is going to be crowded on any given day. You have to accept that. It's where people come to learn. Whenever someone says they are local to the break they bring that feeling of superiority with them and act like they own the place. They hang out with their buddies and don't share a single wave with people outside of the group
@@Joneshingonly refer to myself as a local bc I can see the beach from my house and go out whenever I get the chance not bc I adopt the “local” mentality. I do agree the spot is completely blown up but you would be surprised by the amount of old timers I’ve seen yell at day trippers from sf. They just can’t except Linda mar isn’t what it used to be in terms of the crowd factor.
10 staples is bad luck and not deserved by anyone. Pacifica/Linda Mar can have its oh-yeah-- days. IMO, it has the most consistent rideable wave to ride on a given day e.g. south end, middle and north end of a mile-long beach, to drive to in the area. There is definitely a safety issue with inexperienced surfers. I often come in thanking the lord that I didn't do anything stupid or got run over by a beginner paddling for the wave with their eyes closed, paddling straight out toward the peak vs circling wide, or not holding on to their board. You definitely increase the chance of jeopardizing your mental health and or physical health on weekends. This last President's holiday Monday, it was Oh-Yeah!-a feast of 3-5' and I didn't want to get out. I heeded my internal warning/danger meter and I got out by 8 am while the critical mass of second-shift surfers and Wave-stormers were paddling straight out to the peak and entering the line-up.
I grew up in Hawaii where my Mom was on a tv show in the late 1970s and then she moved us to South Bay - Redondo then Venice in the 1980s so she could be close to Hollywood auditions. I remember the localism in Venice as a grom. When I moved to Santa Cruz I noticed Steamer Lane localism and now that I'm in Florida, I noticed the surfers are very friendly except for the 2 best spots - Sebastian Inlet (Kelly Slater's home break) and Reef Road in Palm Beach. Of course I've seen it in Hawaii too. There's a balance everyone needs to strive for of respect for the locals while also keeping the Aloha spirit of surfing alive that the original Hawaiin ambassadors spread around the world over 100 years ago bringing surfing to California, Australia etc. In Hawaii the tourists would flood in during the prime surfing season. If you could count on reliable surf all year that would be one thing but it's tough to pay the high cost of living all year only to be squeezed out by outsiders but then again, you want visitors to enjoy their vacation and the money they spent to get there. The real problem is when A holes collide, that's usually when the reasonable people mindset goes out the window and then there's the fall out from that.
I grew up in San Diego where localism was big back in the day, if you respect others you get respect in return. I was respected not only because I respected others and got to know them, but then I later worked those same beaches as a lifeguard. Finally, plenty of guys tried to pull that stuff even after they were respected, then it got ugly, and after you whip a few behinds and almost drown a few dudes...you then get respected and have no problem paddling out anywhere. I've met some great dudes up and down the coast and for the most part if you bring mellow, you get mellow. Thanks Brad for your channel it does the sport and the community of surfing good 👍 appreciate your work, the surfers you shoot and your awesome viewers! ✌️
None of us have an issue with protocol and etiquette in the water, what I am sick of is local POS's telling 20 year combat vets they cant "park here" in an empty parking lot in Washington state when its so cold that the lineup is empty anyway , because "its not your town" that why it leads to violence and Im done tolerating it.
Okay, so if I show up surfing spot x, as a solo individual, on the biggest day in years, a day when even many locals weren’t paddling out and show nothing but humility respect and follow all regulatory principles in and out of the water (suiting up in the right place, staying off main peak, not paddling for the boys waves, not paddling into anyone’s line, not burning anyone, etc.) Also while proving I’m far more than competent by taking off in way more critical sections on scrap waves and making every wave and I’m still harassed beyond belief… what’s the basis for or argument in support of the harassment? Existing? That’s bogus. We don’t choose where we are born.
I will say, I live on the east coast USA, and theres little to no localism whatsoever where I live. We have 1 premier "big-wave" spot within a 2 hour drive north or south from where I live for the hurricane swells that does tend to get a bit of localization, just because of how limited parking is.That being said, no one will slash your tires, or want to fight you, just might give you a "you should probably go somewhere else" in the parking lot. Aside from that, there's hundreds of miles of coast, that on an average day, you won't see a single other surfer out in the water, and most spots are basically the same as far as how the waves break, we don't have reef bottom spots here or anything, it's all shore break. Only real difference between the spots is what tides they work with, and the shape of the waves, but being sandbar waves, that changes super frequently. On an above average day, maybe 5 people in the water at any given spot. There just isn't the level of crowds that say Cali or Hawaii has that almost necessitates localism to keep the rippers safe from the wavestorm goons and weekend warriors and just the level of overcrowding in general. From my perspective, it's an amazingly friendly and open environment on the east coast that in theory, I think would be great if it worked the same way everywhere. But in reality, with the crowds at some of the better spots in say cali or Hawaii, I totally get why it is the way it is. All that being said, love the videos brotha, that coverage of the mega swell in January was sick to watch! Keep up the videos, and we'll keep watching 🤙
localism is not about trying to keep people safe and teach them that surfing is dangerous, localism is about salty people that think they own the break for some reason. I don't care they put the time in their local wave,..other people also put time in other waves and we are free to explore other breaks when it's good. Surfing rules are easy to follow, its not rocket science, don't drop in and get out of the way if someone is on a wave, but don't tell me i can't catch waves because I'm not from there, that's absurd
"Localism" as it relates to advanced surf spots is understandable (sort of...). You don't want someone who's brand new to surfing in the lineup at a point break that requires a fairly advanced skillset to surf, plus beginners don't understand etiquette much of the time. However, I think it's pretty uncool when localism bleeds into beginner-friendly spots where its obvious that 80% of the surfers are just learning. If someone cuts you off once, let them know in a non-aggressive manner, and they'll likely apologize. We all make mistakes, especially when starting out.
*Surfing can be chaotic at specific spots, some "localism" to instill order to the lineup is only natural. There's also an argument that could be made about needing to respect the people who live there (if you've travelled to surf that break) however, once you reach the point of "you're not going to surf here or you're automatically reduced to surfing leftovers because you're not 'one of us' is where it can go too far. The only enforcer out there should be the ocean itself*
Learning how to surf in Hawaii and then coming to Southern California, I was shocked that there was almost 0 surf etiquette. Blacks beach, Scripps, OB, Church, Lowers, etc. It seems like people in California surf. like they drive: everybody has to be number first. I actually don’t mind localism as long as the people who regulate the spot allow everybody to get waves. Localism helps when they enforce surfing etiquette.
I live and surf in north SD county. What I see as the problem is not localism, it’s tourists that come for a week or so and don’t care who they piss off because they just want to get as many waves as they can and then move on. The tourists act like they are locals. They paddle out in groups and so they know people in the lineup that are also tourists. Some are on surf trips and have “instructors” with them and the whole group will dominate the peak because the “surf instructor” blocks for them. I’m a 57 year old woman and I have young men blocking me so they can make a couple bucks and ruin any good vibes for anyone not in their group, locals included. I’m at the point where I’m going to bring a beater board with me so if this happens this summer I just drop in on them and not worry about f**king up my expensive and pretty board.
I can’t stand crowds. In the 30 plus years I’ve been surfing it just gets worse. My solution is to find sub par waves with few to no one out instead of epic spots that are packed. It’s either that or take a boat out into a packed spot and start chumming the waters…
I like what you said at the end, regarding locals educating beginners on etiquette. Back in the 70's, when I moved to Hermosa, I made friends with a local pro-level surfer and he invited me to his spot to surf with guys like Chris Barela and Mike Benevidez. While I wasn't a good surfer, I would occasionally pull something off that surprised even me! However, I didn't have a clue about the rules of the waves and Bob gave me the gentle indoctrination speech. It made all the difference in the world. To me, the biggest rule told me was to always let the guy closest to the break have the wave, even if you don't think he can make it. Unfortunately, I did see some young locals shoot their boards at guys who would snake their wave. There is absolutely no reason to do that.
You have to respect the locals. I wouldn't even think about paddling for a set wave when the waves are pumping where I live, I've been showing respect for the past year and now I get people telling me to drop them in and catch any wave I want. It all comes from never overfrothing, always saying hello when I paddle out, waiting for my turn, knowing my place in the water in respect to my surfing ability and showing respect.
I think the defining point as you mentioned is that waves are a limited resource. With many surfers out there has to be a system to organize things or it just wont work, from what I see that system usually takes the form of hierarchy. There are breaks I wouldn't consider surfing at so I must respect localism in that way.
localism is like a california only thing. pipe is similar i guess but like... you shouldn't be at pipe on a big day unless you've been there a lot anyways. Surfing secret spots in tahiti with 2 other people out... never heard them say anything bad cuz i obviously wasn't from there lol
Brad, love your videos! Really awesome content. I don't normally comment on anything but here it goes. I grew up surfing the South Bay (that why I watch all your videos). Hey and I'm AMAZED at the content of your videos in the last 6 months. I surfed the South Bay and around some spots in PV for 20 years before I moved out of state 30 years ago. What I've noticed from your videos is the number of people in the water is insane. Truthfully, 30 years ago I might have pulled up and just said forget it - to me part of the experience sometimes was solitude, not competition. Anyway, localism sucks, always has sucked, always will suck. There is no mystery where the waves are breaking and when its good. The only solution in my view is respect. Many times I've been out at 'localized' spots and respected the rotation. My beef would be, I waited and someone would try to edge in on the sweet spot or worse yet, drop in. There is no good excuse to drop in, ever. Well whatever. I don't surf any longer - sure love watching the South Bay go off. That being said Brad, you could have throw in some amazing content around Palos Verdes in the last 6 months. . . but I get it. Thanks again for what you do.
It's tough, right? Like, I really wish localism came down to enforcing etiquette. But at the same time I totally understand just wanting to surf your local without having to babysit new surfers or kooks. I wish everyone could share the best spots but I get not wanting your personal spot X to get crowded. It sucks that locals will kill a vibe to keep their spots sacred but I also totally get it. I guess ideally to me surfers at least get a chance before they're chased out of the water... Or the parking lot. Overall, though, it feels like respecting a spot is as important to learning to surf as learning to pop up.
Proud of you Bradley (that's what Logie calls you) for that first 10 seconds "i can see both sides of the argument (and be in agreement with each person)." It is crucial to ALWAYS hear both sides, the 2 sides of an argument / conflict. But however, localism is wrong. The surf etiquette rules that are already in place should be sufficient. "The surfer closest to curl owns the wave, the deepest guy....." If a guy falls (he is too deep) then the wave is up for grabs. If you are premature (like committing P.I. pass interference in the NFL, if you hit him too early) that is a foul, but if you know the guy is going to fall, and he does fall, then it's your wave. -- Keeping people out of the property entirely..... shouldn't be necessary. I have dominated crowded spots. I have also been dominated by others. It's frustrating, yes. But who is to say who owns the spot. What i hate is when a guy surfs for 8 hours. Go in already! Get outta here. Your turn is over.
I almost wish they had different "grades" of breaks so that beginners/novices would know where to avoid. On ski mountains a beginner wouldn't go down a double-black or be skiing in the back-country. I think going as far as violence is wrong. But if you can never surf local spots how are you ever gonna progress? There needs to be mutual respect, and people need to know how to act in the lineup and know when is an acceptable time (in there skill lvl) to move to a more local spot. I agree that it's not rly one way or the other.
I think the safety argument is BS. Guys that are locals are not trying to keep a spot safe. They are trying to keep it “theirs”. However most localism is mellow as long as you surf mellow, don’t kook out, keep your distance and when a good one comes to you, surf it well.
CJ Nelson recently touched on this on Surf Splendor. It's worth checking out. There used to be a hierarchy and seniority at different spots based on time put in there. You paddled out, and the surfers there let you know you were at the bottom of the ladder. If you were a beginner, they would either tell you to go elsewhere to learn, or they would slowly integrate you into the hierarchy. Locals are like stewards of a given surf spot. Their function is to keep order, which teaches respect, etiquette, and keeps everyone safe. If you behave like a kook, are entitled, etc. they will call you out or tell you to leave. They might even punch you or mess with your car. As a non violent person I don't condone that approach, but I understand why a fist might fly. If you're incapable of learning and integrating surf etiquette, if you choose to ignore that people have put in years at a wave and have earned their place in that lineup, you're better off surfing a spot where everyone else is equally oblivious. Maybe after your etiquetteless session you can go cut some elderly people in line at the grocery store and drive across some sidewalks and lawns on your way home? Kinda the same thing...
As someone one who surfed at the same spot every single day pretty much I hate when a bunch of people would show up when it’s pumping. All that potential but there are just so many people that don’t know how to surf. Just terrible, such a waste of potential of great waves. I also fucking hate when longboards catch every single wave, they don’t even need to paddle to catch it they just take every single one
Thanks for the discussion,Brad. I've had good times at many spots - just respect the rotation and read the room. Met some fine people surfing, and it's been great. Shred.
It all depends on the type of localism. I grew up in the umm...."rock throwing place" south of El Porto. I was not a Bay Boy (that's a huge misconception, the majority of surfers who grew up in PVE don't get to surf Lunada Bay), so I got some grief when I'd run into them at the Indicator, Cove, and Hags but not like I was from Redondo. It was definitely iron fist, but I learned. Ended up going to college in San Diego when La Jolla was still pretty localized. Surfed every break in La Jolla more days than not for 7 years, and only got into a handful arguments. And it's because I had learned until you put in your time, you scrap. It has nothing to do with skill, it has to do with time. Waves are a limited commodity. That being said though. places like Lunada Bay, Silver Strand, Redondo Breakwall, I'd call special cases that definitely warrant larger levels of intimidation.
Much like you, I can see both sides, and live close to many breaks but I only consider myself a local at two of them. Everywhere else I may recognize faces and even cars but I always to ease into a lineup, even when I surf alone. I've only encountered localism in the way that it should be enforced, calling out bad etiquette or "kooky" behavior. I think its important for people, especially in our multi media era to do the research before going to any spots and understand what it means to be in a lineup. I've gone to new breaks (to me) and shown respect like you mentioned to everyone and most spots end up cheering each other on, priority and taking turns is what happens when sharing a wonderful ocean. Also, like mentioned in your older video where no one seemed to get dropped in on when it was pumping. I've never had a day when it was going off that I felt like I couldn't get a single wave, (although I know spots where its harder). I think at the core respecting priority is something people need to do more of, I do not wanna stress out over someone dropping in on me or trying to make sure their board doesn't hurt be when I have the peak, its not a competition to your feet or for the best wave if you were out of position, suck it up.
You have a very professional way of taking on this topic. However, chiming in here as a south Miami Beach local, we have one of the most extreme examples of what you were saying. “It’s an amazing wave”, said Jerry Lopez during a layover many years ago. The number of “EPIC” days per year here can be counted on one hand. And when its good, the kook flood gates are wide open. For instance, hurricane Sandy produced an estimated over 1000 surfers, per city block. So i completely get when locals don’t want outsiders ruining what coulda been a great day or sesh! Thanks for the videos! Subscribed!
If all it is is "respect", then everyone should respect everyone else. If it really is "making up for some physical shortcoming" or failure to learn how to live together in society, then take up another sport - maybe cage fighting. The coastal commission resolved the attitude that "I own the ocean because I live here issue - at least from an access standpoint. Let it go and learn to get along. There's a sign at Rincon showing the rules but many don't observe them. Should be the first thing taught at surf schools. What I notice is that in the early 60's we spent a lot of time talking and getting to know each other. Now people act like you're shouting in the library if you start a conversation (not all of course). It's a great sport so why not just focus on enjoying it? We enjoy every minute we're in the water, so we go where people like us are surfing.
One of the issues with El Porto that makes it so crowded is ease of access. There’s plenty of beach between MB Pier and El Porto, but there’s almost no public parking. It’s a residential area. The same is true for the beaches between HB Pier and MB Pier.
Unless you are a Native American, from one of the California coastal tribes: Tongva, Island Chumash, Ventureno etc, ya got no damn right to think you are a local at, well...ANYTHING. Keep in mind that threatening someone verbally, or assaulting them is against the law and anyone who experiences this should call the cops ( not the lifeguards, who are always buddies with the locals), get contact info from a witness, then call a lawyer and sue.
@@tedleyreynolds5541 More like a native person who aint cool with European visitors talking about "local" anything...Oh, and "Tedley" sounds pretty similar to "tattletale" but nice try, champ.
Such a thing of beauty to have your own local beach. Where I grew up in South Africa surfing changed my brother and I are the only two people who surf at the beach we grew up surfing. Its not good most of the time but when it is we laugh our asses off because 1 kilometre away the surf is full.
The same thought about teaching surfing norms to beginners and weekend warriors as a way to mitigate tension and danger has occurred to me before-and it certainly would earn respect for locals (beyond respecting the locals home). However, I don’t think this proposal scales. At a certain number of people, competition for scarce resources (waves) will ensure accidents and conflicts just because of how many people are in the water. You might try something like what’s done at Pipeline-forming a line that can be cut according to a surfer’s status-but I doubt that would work.
Surfing is unusual because there needs to be some order maintained so everyone can be as safe as possible, however there is no formal structure to maintain that order- ie there’s not a traffic cop in the channel watching the going’s on (and thank God for that!) One of the best comparisons I’ve heard was imagine you saw a novice driver race through a crowded parking lot- no one would argue with having a stern word with the driver.
Where I surf people are mostly always nice just don’t snake or drop in and catch the waves that ur on the most peakiest part and no one will get mad at u for catching a wave that’s urs
If you attack someone or damage their property you can easily sue them, so i really doubt that much violence happens at breaks nowadays. Most 'localism' is just locals burning people.
Localism will always exist because of the dynamics of surf spots and the finite number of good waves. Surf spots have an intense pecking order and a limited amount of waves, especially on good days, which means a beginning surfer should not expect to get any waves at all at a good spot on a good day. Beginner surfers have to be aware of this fact and keep practicing at lesser breaks until they have a much better degree of awareness and control which takes a long time. Surf schools and instructors need to do a much better job of preparing new surfers and not just sending them off into the ocean totally unaware.
I get it. But what you described from 0:42 onwards is more like endemic bullying. Respect means following FAIR rules. Saying you might be allowed to get some insiders after everyone got the set waves is not being respected. Necessary evil but still evil imo.
I am a novice surfer and starting to learn at the moment. I understand the localism aspect to a certain degree. I grew up skateboarding and have been doing so for over 20 years and skaters also have the same mindset about not sharing people's "spots". At the end of the day, your trying to train there and learn so it can be frustrating/dangerous when someone snakes you or drops in on you. On the other side of the argument, being rude, disrespectful because someone is "there" does come across as entitled and douchey if I'm gonna be honest. Why not help educate folks on the matter so they are aware. I feel in most circumstances, beginners are not trying to intentionally snake someone/drop in on someone. They are just unaware and also, don't have as much control on their board
I’ve also grown up surfing locally in socal and was considered and “treated” like a local at my local surf spot but i sure as hell know i dont own the waves. So here’s my 2 sense: if a local says something to you about your position in the line up, you kindly remind them that they too dont own the waves and you say to them that they would be welcome to sit anywhere at your local break seeing as you also have no legal rights to the position of priority. Now let them process this. Also its handy to surf with a friend because locals tend to pick on people that surf by themselves. Secondly after u”ve said ur part, if you are confronted by a local remain unmoved by their efforts and in fact i recommend paddling deeper. You’ll seriously make them look like a fool. My only advice tho when going about this is you hav to remain confident otherwise u just look weak but seriously people stand up for your self with !words!
I’m trying to bring localism to the snowboard terrain parks, kids are hitting the run up to features and going off the sides which messes up the run up for the actual feature.
I have little sympathy for localism unless it is on privately-owned land. And if anybody messes with my car when it is parked on land that they do not own, if I find out who they are, they will seriously wish they had not done it.
Regardless of whether you like it or not every spot has history and locals as well as an underlying code of conduct that you definitely need to adhere to. If you are wondering why other surfers are yelling at you or getting angry, it’s because you are in violation of some part of that equation. It’s certainly not a free for all environment in the water. Surf spots are incredibly complex environments that require tremendous skill to learn to navigate and the reason that most surfers make it look so smooth and easy is because they have been incredibly devoted for their whole lives. I used to surf El Porto all the time, but I don’t anymore because I was injured by a beginner surfer who was in the wrong place doing the wrong thing on the wrong day for his skill level and his board smashed my hand because he lost control and let go. I didn’t retaliate with violence, but a lot of my friends definitely would have because it was such an incredibly dangerous act . I found him in the parking lot and I was extremely angry and showed him that he fucked up my hand and also made him pay for my board that he also smashed. I also explained what he did wrong in the situation, but he seemed oblivious and I doubt it did any good. To be honest he probably would have benefited from getting his ass kicked. Locals have a longstanding love affair with their spots and they don’t take kindly to intruders, especially when they are disrespectful or ignorant.
I’ve been surfing since the 80’s and localism taught me respect and etiquette. There was actually a pecking order in the lineup. Surfing nowadays is ruined with the crowds and lack of etiquette and respect for other surfers. I actually had more fun and got more waves during that time. Today it’s a free-for-all. It doesn’t matter if you’re Kelly Slater you will get snaked and frustrated.
With the exception of a few spots ive never had much issue with locals. I show respect, catch a few corners, and over time work my way up to the top of the lineup. With so many begnners and intermediate surfers in hte lineup now its forced locals to get more aggressive. As a grom in the 80s I knew the top sand bars or spots were off limits, but now with live cameras on many spots and what seems to be a herd of clueless beginners the best spots are just dangerous, not because of the waves but because of the lack of ability in the water. Overall i think the really good spots take care of themselves.
I bodysurf. So the only place I ever got localism bad vibes was the one time I tried Boomers on an okay day. I was happy to leave, since my usual spot a bit north (that will remain nameless) is much better anyway. The worst localism I've ever heard of was PV in the 70s. If you didn't hang a white headband off your mirror, and wear a black wetsuit, with preferably a white board, you were targeted, and rock throwing was one of the more cordial things they did. I doubt localism is as bad as it was in the day, but then where I surf, when it gets good, you can't even get out there if you're some barney who doesn't know the spot. On good swells the average level of surfing there is indistinguishable from the pros--because a lot of them ARE! You featured this place on some of your recent January swell viddys, Brad, so I think you know where I'm talking about.
I have surf many localized spots, if I do I always give the peak to the locals, but my theory is if you sit inside your get good waves too, violence and destruction of property is never acceptable. If you do, i hope you get famous. These days being famous for localism means lawsuits and terroristic threats on your record. Makes you think twice before being out of hand, surfers need to learn from other sports.
When I grew up, I couldn't surf C-Street because of the vibe. Now, I won't surf C-Street because it's too crowded. In the former case, I had a chance to work my way into the line-up, over time, with good manners, and I could eventually get a wave to myself with a nod from an elder. In the latter case, my manners mean nothing, and I will never have a wave to myself. Do those that demand fairness and socialism want a wave filled with people who would otherwise be playing Pickleball?
I moved to socal 2 years ago which i was super kook status. I generally go to the same spot about 5 days a week and gradually learned about the etiquette. I actually understand it and see benifits to it. If i go to a diff spot I essentially wait in line and gradually move closer to the sweet spot. but if its all grandpas and sons than i dont see why not let them chill togather. ... i have also seen knowledgeable folks not from the place go up to the sweet spot and burn folks. at that point they can expect a not friendly invvitation. Its as if they will be labeled a vegan at the hot dog fest
There’s two different things being discussed here: people that should not be in a lineup because of their skill level (ie beginners not surfing more advanced spots or the main peak) and people claiming they should have preference because they are locals. In the first case, it’s not really localism but safety and common sense and it’s fine telling someone who is in the wrong spot to go somewhere else. There’s so many people learning to surf that don’t respect the rules that if their instructors don’t tell them, someone else has to. On the second part, surfing was supposed to be cool because it was apolitical and a meritocracy, meaning that no one owns the ocean or the waves and the best will end up getting the most waves. However, as politics managed to contaminate even surfing, now we are using man-imagined borders to divide even waves.
I’ve been surfing since the early 70’s, never got in a confrontation l. Always Respect the locals if I’m at a new break. Folks respect me if I’m at my local break.
Started ‘75 age 17 SD. An inlander, 15 miles. Fully aware of locals then who make fun or comments or cutoffs. One thing I hate about surfing is crowds and competition for a wave. Moved east many years ago and I try to go but I usually avoid the main lineups. Even San Diego, I started to drive to Del Mar back then because of less crowds and Baja
Point Dume (Little Dume) was ruthless. Rocks coming from the top of the cliff landing in the the line up. Seen plenty of beat downs. Cars vandalized. Home owners having cars towed. Back in the day you couldn't park on the street, different story today. Localism still exist there so be respectful. See you in the line up...or not.
It's common sense is all. When the Southbay is walled up days on end. I just don't show up at the only 3 surfable localized spots on the first day. I give it a few days out of respect for the guys who have clout there.
Throwing rocks? Sounds like entitlement to me. I bet those same people who could even afford to live next to the beach have no qualms gentrifying other people’s neighborhoods 😂
If we talk about localism (which is ok) we should talk about the overpopulated surf spots, too. It seems nobody cares about beaches are natural resources, and there should be short of regulations(and 'm nott talking about softops) to protect that environment, for safety and for greater good. It's not that we locals can't surf on a summer weekend, it's that we can't even access our beaches, there's no parking place, there are cars over green areas, free campers at the parking lot, etc. Sometimes ambulances can't drive thru the cars. And, at least in my country (Spain), authorities don't say a word, just ask for more visitors, more incomes and taxes. P.s. many of those bad boys from the past , now they own surf schools, don't tech etiquette at all and paddle out 20 kooks to the very peak, day in day out. ;-)
Simply everyone wants the best waves and don’t know if the person next to then is going to hesitate so they just go but tell some one that it was their wave because they where on the peak is helpful teach someone they’ll appreciate it 🤙🏿
We need more localism. The anti localism side is just the kooks feeling entitled. So, today, a tourist rucks up, the locals are nice, as soon as we’re nice the F’r bombs the shoulder and drops in on us wave after wave after wave. Then there’s people we know, but aren’t regulars, many of whom are beginners, they do lots of stupid shit too, but it’s more tolerated because we know the live here (Hawaii). But people get told, and lately the regulars are talking more and more about the need to be vocal. We want to do it in a nice way, but it’s hard. And why don’t people who desire to surf, go read up on surf culture, TRY TO F’ING UNDERSTAND HOW IT WORKS, so we don’t have to be the bad guy telling you?!! We don’t want to be, you make us when: you paddle out the middle instead of the channel, paddle around us, shoulder bomb us, paddle in anyways even after you’ve been called off by the guy in priority, kick your boards at us, paddle across us when sets are coming and then go over the falls backwards onto us, etc. etc. In my last four sessions I’ve been dropped in on and run over at least once a session. One girl kicked her board into my chest from above while I was mid bottom turn. Not even a sorry I got! I ran over a guy I know Thursday cause I couldn’t see him with the morning sun in my eyes when he was paddling back out through the middle instead of the channel. His leg was filleted open and he went to the hospital to close the six inch long flap on his calve. I felt horrible. I was in the middle of my second bottom turn and he didn’t duck dive deep enough. We locals are getting TIRED of the, “accidents”! And it’s 99% percent of the time beginners or even intermediates that just don’t fully get it yet or didn’t grow up with the culture or at least try to LEARN IT! You can become a local by following the rules, showing up all the time, getting accepted!!!, and not being a snake. Take the waves we give you. Everyone has to do this when it’s not their spot. Then once you’ve earned it, you’ll have a spot. Put in the time and show us. Or go find another sport. We’re sick of the woke entitled bs in our lineups cause we’re sick of seeing people get hurt by people who don’t respect the culture.
@TheGuyBroNintySix meh I love locals but I hate when they think they’re superior and have a god given right to the wave. The sea is everyone’s man and shit happens, ain’t that serious
There are so many comments about giving locals respect. It's just rediculous! How can you possibly know who is a local? Also who defines it? If you live 20 feet from the beach or 2 miles or 3? Where's the cut off? And don't tell me the local will be sitting further out or is in the better take off spot because it's just not true. 30 years of surfing all over the world and ive never been able to spot a local. Just give everyone equal respect.
localism...? we need localism! living in Denmark in north Zeeland there are not many good waves, and with the Capital of Denmark near by a lot of weekend warriors comes to one spot. A few years ago the spot was friendly, the local bathers talked to surfer. Shop owners lived of us when we had to eat and drink after sessions. But then the surf boom came. All the new folks diden't understand the respect for the local population. and started stacking surfboards on the peer, standing i croweds on the stairs to the water etc. the local population got so fed up that they banned surfboards on the peer. Cars were broken into, and the shop owners stopped servicing surfers. the spot is blown for good and everybody knows that beginners rule that wave. the worst part of is that the crowd that ruind the spot is beginning comming to other spots, and us surfing those spots are trying to tell them how to be good to the locals, but im afraid that is a lost cause. I dont own the waves, and i dont have the right to ban other people. but hopefully the new crowd will learn how to behave as a good guest. sorry for the bad spelling english is my 3rd langguage,
I live on the Gold Coast. All the beaches here are public beaches. The beaches belong to every member of the public. I do not need any idiot locals permission to surf at a public beach. The law says I am right. The dumb locals need to stop saying respect the locals. Everyone needs to respect everyone.
Localism is a good thing because when new or novice surfers come into the lineup, they usually don't have good etiquette, awareness, or an understanding of the value the waves really have. Without localism, new surfers would wreak havoc on surf spots. It's not their fault, you need to learn a lot to be a well rounded and good surfer in every aspect of the sport. I speak as someone who grew up surfing spots from Santa Cruz to San Francisco, but I was never actually a "local" that lived on the coast. If you're getting mad at people who try to create a sense of order, you probably just don't get it, or aren't a good enough surfer to see what serious safety problems beginners bring into what used to peaceful and well structured lineups. Also if you really don't like localism, go find your own wave. I live where surfing in popular, but I don't go to crowded surf spots because I like having my own lineup.
It’s simple beginners belong at beginner breaks and advanced belong at better breaks, problem is beginners want to be cool and they think they are advanced. There are plenty of different waves, go to the one you belong at
Hmmmmm … could surf photography also contribute to localism… so many people trying to make money off surfing… UA-cam, Twitter, etc.every social medium. Surfing has been getting pimped out for a very long time.
With the increasing number of people in the water, locals are keeping order and traditional values in line. Visiting surfers should show respect and stay low-key. There is limited resources and most locals see visitors as a safety threat.
I've seen people use localism to drop in on others an mostly be a dick. One thing that has come up for me is someone thought I wasn't a local at my own break. I went at vastly different time that I usually go. I knew a kid who went to juvie in highschool for pulling that localism stuff. Sucker punched a dude as he was leaving.
I always give respect to the locals. However, pop my tires, wax my windows or throw rocks at me, you will regret it. The dynasties must be overthrown when they ask for it.
"Locallsm" is definitely a California and Hawaii phenomenon based on being able to paddle out in Australia and Europe. I think a lot of it is just entitlement. Before the pandemic, when I used to paddle out between 42nd and 45th streets at El Porto, these 3 people were next to me in the lot complaining about the wave hogs out in the water. So I recommended that it was more chill South of the Rosecrans tower. One of them replied in the most "fahk yew" tone of voice, "we surf where we want." Then the other side, as Brad mentioned, the surfers that have been surfing that spot for decades, have earned it, and may assert that. I haven't experienced that in the South Bay, but when I go to see my folks on Oahu, I paddle out at the South Shore and there is this group of older regulars who I have seen out there for the past decade, who are all wave hogs. Technically, the ocean is not "free." It is regulated by maritime law and other regional and local laws. Kayaks are included in the water craft that are supposed to comply with the maritime right of way. Additionally, all public beaches are maintained by funds from tax payers, especially property tax. I suppose one can make the argument that having a multi-million dollar house on the sand entitles one to have priority at that beach since they pay more taxes, but then that raises other social equality issues. I have learned to paddle out where there are shittier conditions to ditch crowds and don't even go out on weekends anymore knowing that a large percentage of new surfers give zero fahks about safety and etiquette,
Most arguments I've seen are between confirmed surfers. Localism favors the bully; sure we sometimes have better sessions because you know most guys out there, but the price is countless sessions with bad vibes because someone harassed someone else next to you. Oh and the same bullies who "regulate" tend to yell at other locals; some feed off the bad vibes and end up getting more waves through intimidation, it's just wrong.
it sucks tbh. i understand people have surfed a spot for their whole life, but they don’t own the beach. It doesn’t help that the rules of surfing aren’t written down anywhere as well. That being said kooks should know their limits and hit up “novice” breaks vs the “more experienced” breaks. To stick with the snowboard metaphor, you would not send a novice on a double black diamond slope their first time.
Being a douchebag or attacking new arrivals (verbally or vehicularly) from the get-go just isn't justifiable. If surfers can use their words like rational adults and TALK to newcomers, that makes sense and will get them better results. Up where I am the only spot you see localism now really just has one dude who's an asshole, and that hypocrite moved into the area just a handful of years ago. There's no place for it.
My issue with modern localism is that with the skyrocketing cost of living by the ocean, it essentially turns into gatekeeping the poor out by the wealthy. The only localism I encountered growing up in Florida was from the kids of lawyers and dentists who felt entitled to the best spots because they were fortunate enough to be from a family that could afford to live by them.
Also not just the poor angle, but also just simply people who don't live next to the beach.
Locals now just refer to someone that frequents a beach. It doesn’t have to be living next to it. If you put in your time at a break for years you deserve a certain degree of respect or entitlement to the wave. A very small degree of deservedness but still some. As long as someone’s not a Dick about it
I’m for this lol
@@co8539no one owns the ocean so no respect is needed to be given
@@rumi2059 wrong
As a 45 year old, 6'1", 250+ pound Hawaiian, I'm pretty much a local wherever I paddle out... or at least I'm treated that way. But whenever I paddle out at a new spot, or where i don't know anybody, I give the peak to the locals and wait my turn - a lesson I learned a long time ago when I watched a guy paddle straight to the top of the lineup at V-land, and Perry Dane looked at him, squinted his eyes and said, "You must be the toughest guy on the block, eh." He paddled in pretty quick, I waited my turn. By the end of the session Perry and the boys were hooting me into waves. Give respect and get it back.
Hilarious! Agreeable. 👊🏼
“As an overweight elderly man”
I get both side...
Just show respect and know the rules of the water
I have autism and surf. I’m not very socially normal. I’m always awkward. People mistaken me for being unfriendly or for being a jerk but it’s just my personality. I don’t process things the same way. I get harassed so much in California all the time because of this. It’s scary and I wish people didn’t jump to conclusions in the lineup. Any suggestions or opinions from anyone are welcome.
what if you get a shirt that is autism related(like autism awareness or autism for surf), or something on your wetsuit that way it could potentially let other surfers know that way theyd be more aware so they are less inclined to harass you? that way you dont have to explain to them
Wear that cap that says "Please be patient I have autism"
Wear a SPED helmet
Get one of those disability dogs and surf with it
Ok an actual serious suggestion: just count how many people are in the lineup when you get there and let that number of people have a wave before you go. It's just a lineup, nothing complicated, and I'm sure you understand how lineups work at the grocery store. If it's messy and there isn't a certain point break, then it doesn't matter as much because it's more like whoever's at the right spot at the right time gets the wave, nobody else physically can because it's inconsistent. If you see a person consistently getting wave after wave while there's a bunch waiting, then, in my ignorant opinion, just take the wave as long as it's safe. They had their turn
Surf where other people aren't. That's what I do, as a matter of choice, and creativity. I like to peace out, and compete with the surf, not other people.
As a local who surfs a extremely crowded break(Pacifica State Beach also known as Linda mar) just south of San Fransisco it does get frustrating when the wave storm squad shows up on weekends or when it’s nice out. It becomes extremely dangerous( I have been run over before and had my head sliced open by a fin which required 10 staples) but instead of becoming violent or taking out my frustration on them i go with the educational approach. If someone drops in on me or doesn’t wait there turn in the line up I educate them on proper surfing etiquette. I am also a surf instructor and it feels really good to know I’m making a positive impact in the lineup by teaching people how to properly conduct themselves while in the ocean. A little localism isn’t bad but as soon as it turns violent that’s we’re the line has to be drawn, Let’s be honest almost every experienced surfer was a kook at one point haha
Agree with what you said about letting people know about their mistakes without getting mad at them. You are an exception there because I haven't come across anyone who does that
But you absolutely have no claim to a break like Pacifica. It is going to be crowded on any given day. You have to accept that. It's where people come to learn. Whenever someone says they are local to the break they bring that feeling of superiority with them and act like they own the place. They hang out with their buddies and don't share a single wave with people outside of the group
@@Joneshingonly refer to myself as a local bc I can see the beach from my house and go out whenever I get the chance not bc I adopt the “local” mentality. I do agree the spot is completely blown up but you would be surprised by the amount of old timers I’ve seen yell at day trippers from sf. They just can’t except Linda mar isn’t what it used to be in terms of the crowd factor.
10 staples is bad luck and not deserved by anyone. Pacifica/Linda Mar can have its oh-yeah-- days. IMO, it has the most consistent rideable wave to ride on a given day e.g. south end, middle and north end of a mile-long beach, to drive to in the area. There is definitely a safety issue with inexperienced surfers. I often come in thanking the lord that I didn't do anything stupid or got run over by a beginner paddling for the wave with their eyes closed, paddling straight out toward the peak vs circling wide, or not holding on to their board. You definitely increase the chance of jeopardizing your mental health and or physical health on weekends. This last President's holiday Monday, it was Oh-Yeah!-a feast of 3-5' and I didn't want to get out. I heeded my internal warning/danger meter and I got out by 8 am while the critical mass of second-shift surfers and Wave-stormers were paddling straight out to the peak and entering the line-up.
I grew up in Hawaii where my Mom was on a tv show in the late 1970s and then she moved us to South Bay - Redondo then Venice in the 1980s so she could be close to Hollywood auditions. I remember the localism in Venice as a grom. When I moved to Santa Cruz I noticed Steamer Lane localism and now that I'm in Florida, I noticed the surfers are very friendly except for the 2 best spots - Sebastian Inlet (Kelly Slater's home break) and Reef Road in Palm Beach. Of course I've seen it in Hawaii too. There's a balance everyone needs to strive for of respect for the locals while also keeping the Aloha spirit of surfing alive that the original Hawaiin ambassadors spread around the world over 100 years ago bringing surfing to California, Australia etc. In Hawaii the tourists would flood in during the prime surfing season. If you could count on reliable surf all year that would be one thing but it's tough to pay the high cost of living all year only to be squeezed out by outsiders but then again, you want visitors to enjoy their vacation and the money they spent to get there. The real problem is when A holes collide, that's usually when the reasonable people mindset goes out the window and then there's the fall out from that.
I grew up in San Diego where localism was big back in the day, if you respect others you get respect in return. I was respected not only because I respected others and got to know them, but then I later worked those same beaches as a lifeguard. Finally, plenty of guys tried to pull that stuff even after they were respected, then it got ugly, and after you whip a few behinds and almost drown a few dudes...you then get respected and have no problem paddling out anywhere.
I've met some great dudes up and down the coast and for the most part if you bring mellow, you get mellow. Thanks Brad for your channel it does the sport and the community of surfing good 👍 appreciate your work, the surfers you shoot and your awesome viewers! ✌️
None of us have an issue with protocol and etiquette in the water, what I am sick of is local POS's telling 20 year combat vets they cant "park here" in an empty parking lot in Washington state when its so cold that the lineup is empty anyway , because "its not your town" that why it leads to violence and Im done tolerating it.
Okay, so if I show up surfing spot x, as a solo individual, on the biggest day in years, a day when even many locals weren’t paddling out and show nothing but humility respect and follow all regulatory principles in and out of the water (suiting up in the right place, staying off main peak, not paddling for the boys waves, not paddling into anyone’s line, not burning anyone, etc.)
Also while proving I’m far more than competent by taking off in way more critical sections on scrap waves and making every wave and I’m still harassed beyond belief…
what’s the basis for or argument in support of the harassment?
Existing? That’s bogus. We don’t choose where we are born.
I really doubt the locals would say anything
I will say, I live on the east coast USA, and theres little to no localism whatsoever where I live. We have 1 premier "big-wave" spot within a 2 hour drive north or south from where I live for the hurricane swells that does tend to get a bit of localization, just because of how limited parking is.That being said, no one will slash your tires, or want to fight you, just might give you a "you should probably go somewhere else" in the parking lot. Aside from that, there's hundreds of miles of coast, that on an average day, you won't see a single other surfer out in the water, and most spots are basically the same as far as how the waves break, we don't have reef bottom spots here or anything, it's all shore break. Only real difference between the spots is what tides they work with, and the shape of the waves, but being sandbar waves, that changes super frequently. On an above average day, maybe 5 people in the water at any given spot. There just isn't the level of crowds that say Cali or Hawaii has that almost necessitates localism to keep the rippers safe from the wavestorm goons and weekend warriors and just the level of overcrowding in general. From my perspective, it's an amazingly friendly and open environment on the east coast that in theory, I think would be great if it worked the same way everywhere. But in reality, with the crowds at some of the better spots in say cali or Hawaii, I totally get why it is the way it is. All that being said, love the videos brotha, that coverage of the mega swell in January was sick to watch! Keep up the videos, and we'll keep watching 🤙
localism is not about trying to keep people safe and teach them that surfing is dangerous, localism is about salty people that think they own the break for some reason. I don't care they put the time in their local wave,..other people also put time in other waves and we are free to explore other breaks when it's good. Surfing rules are easy to follow, its not rocket science, don't drop in and get out of the way if someone is on a wave, but don't tell me i can't catch waves because I'm not from there, that's absurd
My black belt and my ar 15 i keep in the truck says i can surf wherever i feel like it wether im local or not !
"Localism" as it relates to advanced surf spots is understandable (sort of...). You don't want someone who's brand new to surfing in the lineup at a point break that requires a fairly advanced skillset to surf, plus beginners don't understand etiquette much of the time. However, I think it's pretty uncool when localism bleeds into beginner-friendly spots where its obvious that 80% of the surfers are just learning. If someone cuts you off once, let them know in a non-aggressive manner, and they'll likely apologize. We all make mistakes, especially when starting out.
*Surfing can be chaotic at specific spots, some "localism" to instill order to the lineup is only natural. There's also an argument that could be made about needing to respect the people who live there (if you've travelled to surf that break) however, once you reach the point of "you're not going to surf here or you're automatically reduced to surfing leftovers because you're not 'one of us' is where it can go too far. The only enforcer out there should be the ocean itself*
Learning how to surf in Hawaii and then coming to Southern California, I was shocked that there was almost 0 surf etiquette. Blacks beach, Scripps, OB, Church, Lowers, etc. It seems like people in California surf. like they drive: everybody has to be number first. I actually don’t mind localism as long as the people who regulate the spot allow everybody to get waves. Localism helps when they enforce surfing etiquette.
I live and surf in north SD county. What I see as the problem is not localism, it’s tourists that come for a week or so and don’t care who they piss off because they just want to get as many waves as they can and then move on. The tourists act like they are locals. They paddle out in groups and so they know people in the lineup that are also tourists. Some are on surf trips and have “instructors” with them and the whole group will dominate the peak because the “surf instructor” blocks for them. I’m a 57 year old woman and I have young men blocking me so they can make a couple bucks and ruin any good vibes for anyone not in their group, locals included. I’m at the point where I’m going to bring a beater board with me so if this happens this summer I just drop in on them and not worry about f**king up my expensive and pretty board.
I can’t stand crowds. In the 30 plus years I’ve been surfing it just gets worse. My solution is to find sub par waves with few to no one out instead of epic spots that are packed. It’s either that or take a boat out into a packed spot and start chumming the waters…
I like what you said at the end, regarding locals educating beginners on etiquette. Back in the 70's, when I moved to Hermosa, I made friends with a local pro-level surfer and he invited me to his spot to surf with guys like Chris Barela and Mike Benevidez. While I wasn't a good surfer, I would occasionally pull something off that surprised even me! However, I didn't have a clue about the rules of the waves and Bob gave me the gentle indoctrination speech. It made all the difference in the world. To me, the biggest rule told me was to always let the guy closest to the break have the wave, even if you don't think he can make it. Unfortunately, I did see some young locals shoot their boards at guys who would snake their wave. There is absolutely no reason to do that.
Bobby Borcola?
@@deanobeano8393 Bob Altfeld
Lots of reasons, brother- but it’s like hitting women: you just don’t do it.
@Zygote1205 with lots of reasons come lots of repercussions lots of things can happen
You have to respect the locals. I wouldn't even think about paddling for a set wave when the waves are pumping where I live, I've been showing respect for the past year and now I get people telling me to drop them in and catch any wave I want. It all comes from never overfrothing, always saying hello when I paddle out, waiting for my turn, knowing my place in the water in respect to my surfing ability and showing respect.
I think the defining point as you mentioned is that waves are a limited resource. With many surfers out there has to be a system to organize things or it just wont work, from what I see that system usually takes the form of hierarchy. There are breaks I wouldn't consider surfing at so I must respect localism in that way.
localism is like a california only thing. pipe is similar i guess but like... you shouldn't be at pipe on a big day unless you've been there a lot anyways. Surfing secret spots in tahiti with 2 other people out... never heard them say anything bad cuz i obviously wasn't from there lol
If you're a man on the street, you're a man in the water. Nuff said
Brad, love your videos! Really awesome content. I don't normally comment on anything but here it goes. I grew up surfing the South Bay (that why I watch all your videos). Hey and I'm AMAZED at the content of your videos in the last 6 months. I surfed the South Bay and around some spots in PV for 20 years before I moved out of state 30 years ago. What I've noticed from your videos is the number of people in the water is insane. Truthfully, 30 years ago I might have pulled up and just said forget it - to me part of the experience sometimes was solitude, not competition. Anyway, localism sucks, always has sucked, always will suck. There is no mystery where the waves are breaking and when its good. The only solution in my view is respect. Many times I've been out at 'localized' spots and respected the rotation. My beef would be, I waited and someone would try to edge in on the sweet spot or worse yet, drop in. There is no good excuse to drop in, ever. Well whatever. I don't surf any longer - sure love watching the South Bay go off. That being said Brad, you could have throw in some amazing content around Palos Verdes in the last 6 months. . . but I get it. Thanks again for what you do.
My grandfather has surfing for 55 years and I’ve been surfing for two years and he said he’s never seen it so crowded. At this point it is what it is.
It's tough, right? Like, I really wish localism came down to enforcing etiquette. But at the same time I totally understand just wanting to surf your local without having to babysit new surfers or kooks. I wish everyone could share the best spots but I get not wanting your personal spot X to get crowded. It sucks that locals will kill a vibe to keep their spots sacred but I also totally get it. I guess ideally to me surfers at least get a chance before they're chased out of the water... Or the parking lot. Overall, though, it feels like respecting a spot is as important to learning to surf as learning to pop up.
Proud of you Bradley (that's what Logie calls you) for that first 10 seconds "i can see both sides of the argument (and be in agreement with each person)." It is crucial to ALWAYS hear both sides, the 2 sides of an argument / conflict. But however, localism is wrong. The surf etiquette rules that are already in place should be sufficient. "The surfer closest to curl owns the wave, the deepest guy....." If a guy falls (he is too deep) then the wave is up for grabs. If you are premature (like committing P.I. pass interference in the NFL, if you hit him too early) that is a foul, but if you know the guy is going to fall, and he does fall, then it's your wave.
--
Keeping people out of the property entirely..... shouldn't be necessary. I have dominated crowded spots. I have also been dominated by others. It's frustrating, yes. But who is to say who owns the spot. What i hate is when a guy surfs for 8 hours. Go in already! Get outta here. Your turn is over.
I almost wish they had different "grades" of breaks so that beginners/novices would know where to avoid. On ski mountains a beginner wouldn't go down a double-black or be skiing in the back-country. I think going as far as violence is wrong. But if you can never surf local spots how are you ever gonna progress? There needs to be mutual respect, and people need to know how to act in the lineup and know when is an acceptable time (in there skill lvl) to move to a more local spot. I agree that it's not rly one way or the other.
I think the safety argument is BS. Guys that are locals are not trying to keep a spot safe. They are trying to keep it “theirs”. However most localism is mellow as long as you surf mellow, don’t kook out, keep your distance and when a good one comes to you, surf it well.
CJ Nelson recently touched on this on Surf Splendor. It's worth checking out.
There used to be a hierarchy and seniority at different spots based on time put in there. You paddled out, and the surfers there let you know you were at the bottom of the ladder. If you were a beginner, they would either tell you to go elsewhere to learn, or they would slowly integrate you into the hierarchy. Locals are like stewards of a given surf spot. Their function is to keep order, which teaches respect, etiquette, and keeps everyone safe. If you behave like a kook, are entitled, etc. they will call you out or tell you to leave. They might even punch you or mess with your car. As a non violent person I don't condone that approach, but I understand why a fist might fly. If you're incapable of learning and integrating surf etiquette, if you choose to ignore that people have put in years at a wave and have earned their place in that lineup, you're better off surfing a spot where everyone else is equally oblivious. Maybe after your etiquetteless session you can go cut some elderly people in line at the grocery store and drive across some sidewalks and lawns on your way home? Kinda the same thing...
Well said!
As someone one who surfed at the same spot every single day pretty much I hate when a bunch of people would show up when it’s pumping. All that potential but there are just so many people that don’t know how to surf. Just terrible, such a waste of potential of great waves. I also fucking hate when longboards catch every single wave, they don’t even need to paddle to catch it they just take every single one
Thanks for the discussion,Brad. I've had good times at many spots - just respect the rotation and read the room. Met some fine people surfing, and it's been great. Shred.
You ever surf lanada bay???
It all depends on the type of localism. I grew up in the umm...."rock throwing place" south of El Porto. I was not a Bay Boy (that's a huge misconception, the majority of surfers who grew up in PVE don't get to surf Lunada Bay), so I got some grief when I'd run into them at the Indicator, Cove, and Hags but not like I was from Redondo. It was definitely iron fist, but I learned. Ended up going to college in San Diego when La Jolla was still pretty localized. Surfed every break in La Jolla more days than not for 7 years, and only got into a handful arguments. And it's because I had learned until you put in your time, you scrap. It has nothing to do with skill, it has to do with time. Waves are a limited commodity. That being said though. places like Lunada Bay, Silver Strand, Redondo Breakwall, I'd call special cases that definitely warrant larger levels of intimidation.
Localism definitely exists in basketball
For sure especially at those beach side courts… Venice Beach etc..,
And in certain fishing spots as well.
Much like you, I can see both sides, and live close to many breaks but I only consider myself a local at two of them. Everywhere else I may recognize faces and even cars but I always to ease into a lineup, even when I surf alone. I've only encountered localism in the way that it should be enforced, calling out bad etiquette or "kooky" behavior. I think its important for people, especially in our multi media era to do the research before going to any spots and understand what it means to be in a lineup. I've gone to new breaks (to me) and shown respect like you mentioned to everyone and most spots end up cheering each other on, priority and taking turns is what happens when sharing a wonderful ocean. Also, like mentioned in your older video where no one seemed to get dropped in on when it was pumping. I've never had a day when it was going off that I felt like I couldn't get a single wave, (although I know spots where its harder). I think at the core respecting priority is something people need to do more of, I do not wanna stress out over someone dropping in on me or trying to make sure their board doesn't hurt be when I have the peak, its not a competition to your feet or for the best wave if you were out of position, suck it up.
Well said. Exactly.
You have a very professional way of taking on this topic. However, chiming in here as a south Miami Beach local, we have one of the most extreme examples of what you were saying. “It’s an amazing wave”, said Jerry Lopez during a layover many years ago. The number of “EPIC” days per year here can be counted on one hand. And when its good, the kook flood gates are wide open. For instance, hurricane Sandy produced an estimated over 1000 surfers, per city block. So i completely get when locals don’t want outsiders ruining what coulda been a great day or sesh! Thanks for the videos! Subscribed!
Thanks for the sub!
I agree with your assessment as someone who turned 50 and surfed southbay in the 80s, moved to Santa Cruz in the 1990s
If all it is is "respect", then everyone should respect everyone else. If it really is "making up for some physical shortcoming" or failure to learn how to live together in society, then take up another sport - maybe cage fighting. The coastal commission resolved the attitude that "I own the ocean because I live here issue - at least from an access standpoint. Let it go and learn to get along. There's a sign at Rincon showing the rules but many don't observe them. Should be the first thing taught at surf schools. What I notice is that in the early 60's we spent a lot of time talking and getting to know each other. Now people act like you're shouting in the library if you start a conversation (not all of course). It's a great sport so why not just focus on enjoying it? We enjoy every minute we're in the water, so we go where people like us are surfing.
One of the issues with El Porto that makes it so crowded is ease of access. There’s plenty of beach between MB Pier and El Porto, but there’s almost no public parking. It’s a residential area. The same is true for the beaches between HB Pier and MB Pier.
Hi Brad! I hope you are doing well Brother! So much respect and love of your content. Thank you!
Thank you Brad👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾 Lineup Etiquette is the only thing that will make our overcrowded lineups somewhat tolerable
Unless you are a Native American, from one of the California coastal tribes: Tongva, Island Chumash, Ventureno etc, ya got no damn right to think you are a local at, well...ANYTHING.
Keep in mind that threatening someone verbally, or assaulting them is against the law and anyone who experiences this should call the cops ( not the lifeguards, who are always buddies with the locals), get contact info from a witness, then call a lawyer and sue.
We have a tattletale!! Oh oh
@@tedleyreynolds5541 More like a native person who aint cool with European visitors talking about "local" anything...Oh, and "Tedley" sounds pretty similar to "tattletale" but nice try, champ.
Such a thing of beauty to have your own local beach. Where I grew up in South Africa surfing changed my brother and I are the only two people who surf at the beach we grew up surfing. Its not good most of the time but when it is we laugh our asses off because 1 kilometre away the surf is full.
its not about kindness its about fairness
Just don’t go to Luanda bay and you’re good. I’m a pandemic surfer in the South Bay and not once have had a problem. Everyone’s chill
The Guy U Vibe In The Water Could Be The Guy That Saves Your Life From Drowning..
The same thought about teaching surfing norms to beginners and weekend warriors as a way to mitigate tension and danger has occurred to me before-and it certainly would earn respect for locals (beyond respecting the locals home). However, I don’t think this proposal scales. At a certain number of people, competition for scarce resources (waves) will ensure accidents and conflicts just because of how many people are in the water. You might try something like what’s done at Pipeline-forming a line that can be cut according to a surfer’s status-but I doubt that would work.
Surfing is unusual because there needs to be some order maintained so everyone can be as safe as possible, however there is no formal structure to maintain that order- ie there’s not a traffic cop in the channel watching the going’s on (and thank God for that!) One of the best comparisons I’ve heard was imagine you saw a novice driver race through a crowded parking lot- no one would argue with having a stern word with the driver.
Where I surf people are mostly always nice just don’t snake or drop in and catch the waves that ur on the most peakiest part and no one will get mad at u for catching a wave that’s urs
I surf PV Luanda bay all the time. It’s fun, and those rumors about rocks and violence are all BS.
"stay off my wave........ dudes tryin to drop in....... go back to the valley man"
@@surferdude800 Back off Warchild, seriously!
If you attack someone or damage their property you can easily sue them, so i really doubt that much violence happens at breaks nowadays. Most 'localism' is just locals burning people.
@@surferdude800
You leach! Stop stealing my handle!
Localism will always exist because of the dynamics of surf spots and the finite number of good waves. Surf spots have an intense pecking order and a limited amount of waves, especially on good days, which means a beginning surfer should not expect to get any waves at all at a good spot on a good day. Beginner surfers have to be aware of this fact and keep practicing at lesser breaks until they have a much better degree of awareness and control which takes a long time. Surf schools and instructors need to do a much better job of preparing new surfers and not just sending them off into the ocean totally unaware.
I get it. But what you described from 0:42 onwards is more like endemic bullying. Respect means following FAIR rules. Saying you might be allowed to get some insiders after everyone got the set waves is not being respected. Necessary evil but still evil imo.
I am a novice surfer and starting to learn at the moment. I understand the localism aspect to a certain degree. I grew up skateboarding and have been doing so for over 20 years and skaters also have the same mindset about not sharing people's "spots". At the end of the day, your trying to train there and learn so it can be frustrating/dangerous when someone snakes you or drops in on you.
On the other side of the argument, being rude, disrespectful because someone is "there" does come across as entitled and douchey if I'm gonna be honest. Why not help educate folks on the matter so they are aware. I feel in most circumstances, beginners are not trying to intentionally snake someone/drop in on someone. They are just unaware and also, don't have as much control on their board
I’ve also grown up surfing locally in socal and was considered and “treated” like a local at my local surf spot but i sure as hell know i dont own the waves.
So here’s my 2 sense: if a local says something to you about your position in the line up, you kindly remind them that they too dont own the waves and you say to them that they would be welcome to sit anywhere at your local break seeing as you also have no legal rights to the position of priority. Now let them process this. Also its handy to surf with a friend because locals tend to pick on people that surf by themselves. Secondly after u”ve said ur part, if you are confronted by a local remain unmoved by their efforts and in fact i recommend paddling deeper. You’ll seriously make them look like a fool. My only advice tho when going about this is you hav to remain confident otherwise u just look weak but seriously people stand up for your self with !words!
I’m trying to bring localism to the snowboard terrain parks, kids are hitting the run up to features and going off the sides which messes up the run up for the actual feature.
I have little sympathy for localism unless it is on privately-owned land. And if anybody messes with my car when it is parked on land that they do not own, if I find out who they are, they will seriously wish they had not done it.
Regardless of whether you like it or not every spot has history and locals as well as an underlying code of conduct that you definitely need to adhere to. If you are wondering why other surfers are yelling at you or getting angry, it’s because you are in violation of some part of that equation. It’s certainly not a free for all environment in the water. Surf spots are incredibly complex environments that require tremendous skill to learn to navigate and the reason that most surfers make it look so smooth and easy is because they have been incredibly devoted for their whole lives. I used to surf El Porto all the time, but I don’t anymore because I was injured by a beginner surfer who was in the wrong place doing the wrong thing on the wrong day for his skill level and his board smashed my hand because he lost control and let go. I didn’t retaliate with violence, but a lot of my friends definitely would have because it was such an incredibly dangerous act . I found him in the parking lot and I was extremely angry and showed him that he fucked up my hand and also made him pay for my board that he also smashed. I also explained what he did wrong in the situation, but he seemed oblivious and I doubt it did any good. To be honest he probably would have benefited from getting his ass kicked. Locals have a longstanding love affair with their spots and they don’t take kindly to intruders, especially when they are disrespectful or ignorant.
I’ve been surfing since the 80’s and localism taught me respect and etiquette. There was actually a pecking order in the lineup. Surfing nowadays is ruined with the crowds and lack of etiquette and respect for other surfers. I actually had more fun and got more waves during that time. Today it’s a free-for-all. It doesn’t matter if you’re Kelly Slater you will get snaked and frustrated.
When I was Surfing you guys were not even born yet. that makes me the local!
With the exception of a few spots ive never had much issue with locals. I show respect, catch a few corners, and over time work my way up to the top of the lineup. With so many begnners and intermediate surfers in hte lineup now its forced locals to get more aggressive. As a grom in the 80s I knew the top sand bars or spots were off limits, but now with live cameras on many spots and what seems to be a herd of clueless beginners the best spots are just dangerous, not because of the waves but because of the lack of ability in the water. Overall i think the really good spots take care of themselves.
I bodysurf. So the only place I ever got localism bad vibes was the one time I tried Boomers on an okay day. I was happy to leave, since my usual spot a bit north (that will remain nameless) is much better anyway.
The worst localism I've ever heard of was PV in the 70s. If you didn't hang a white headband off your mirror, and wear a black wetsuit, with preferably a white board, you were targeted, and rock throwing was one of the more cordial things they did.
I doubt localism is as bad as it was in the day, but then where I surf, when it gets good, you can't even get out there if you're some barney who doesn't know the spot. On good swells the average level of surfing there is indistinguishable from the pros--because a lot of them ARE! You featured this place on some of your recent January swell viddys, Brad, so I think you know where I'm talking about.
I have surf many localized spots, if I do I always give the peak to the locals, but my theory is if you sit inside your get good waves too, violence and destruction of property is never acceptable. If you do, i hope you get famous. These days being famous for localism means lawsuits and terroristic threats on your record. Makes you think twice before being out of hand, surfers need to learn from other sports.
When I grew up, I couldn't surf C-Street because of the vibe. Now, I won't surf C-Street because it's too crowded. In the former case, I had a chance to work my way into the line-up, over time, with good manners, and I could eventually get a wave to myself with a nod from an elder. In the latter case, my manners mean nothing, and I will never have a wave to myself. Do those that demand fairness and socialism want a wave filled with people who would otherwise be playing Pickleball?
I moved to socal 2 years ago which i was super kook status. I generally go to the same spot about 5 days a week and gradually learned about the etiquette. I actually understand it and see benifits to it. If i go to a diff spot I essentially wait in line and gradually move closer to the sweet spot. but if its all grandpas and sons than i dont see why not let them chill togather. ... i have also seen knowledgeable folks not from the place go up to the sweet spot and burn folks. at that point they can expect a not friendly invvitation. Its as if they will be labeled a vegan at the hot dog fest
Do you have surf footage of yourself?
There’s two different things being discussed here: people that should not be in a lineup because of their skill level (ie beginners not surfing more advanced spots or the main peak) and people claiming they should have preference because they are locals.
In the first case, it’s not really localism but safety and common sense and it’s fine telling someone who is in the wrong spot to go somewhere else. There’s so many people learning to surf that don’t respect the rules that if their instructors don’t tell them, someone else has to.
On the second part, surfing was supposed to be cool because it was apolitical and a meritocracy, meaning that no one owns the ocean or the waves and the best will end up getting the most waves. However, as politics managed to contaminate even surfing, now we are using man-imagined borders to divide even waves.
Like anything in life, understanding and consideration is the key either on land or in the water.
I’ve been surfing since the early 70’s, never got in a confrontation l. Always Respect the locals if I’m at a new break. Folks respect me if I’m at my local break.
Started ‘75 age 17 SD. An inlander, 15 miles. Fully aware of locals then who make fun or comments or cutoffs. One thing I hate about surfing is crowds and competition for a wave. Moved east many years ago and I try to go but I usually avoid the main lineups. Even San Diego, I started to drive to Del Mar back then because of less crowds and Baja
Be respectful in every lineup.
However, when disrespected take care of business
I love surfing even though I am a beginner!
Point Dume (Little Dume) was ruthless. Rocks coming from the top of the cliff landing in the the line up. Seen plenty of beat downs. Cars vandalized. Home owners having cars towed. Back in the day you couldn't park on the street, different story today. Localism still exist there so be respectful. See you in the line up...or not.
My take-
localism good: when the waves are dangerous
Localism is bad: when the waves aren’t dangerous
I think only this matters for most cases.
It’s good if you’re a local it’s bad if you’re not
It's common sense is all.
When the Southbay is walled up days on end. I just don't show up at the only 3 surfable localized spots on the first day. I give it a few days out of respect for the guys who have clout there.
Throwing rocks? Sounds like entitlement to me. I bet those same people who could even afford to live next to the beach have no qualms gentrifying other people’s neighborhoods 😂
Localism is good when YOU are the local. It is bad when you are not the local.
😂😂
Good thing you expose every zone
If we talk about localism (which is ok) we should talk about the overpopulated surf spots, too. It seems nobody cares about beaches are natural resources, and there should be short of regulations(and 'm nott talking about softops) to protect that environment, for safety and for greater good. It's not that we locals can't surf on a summer weekend, it's that we can't even access our beaches, there's no parking place, there are cars over green areas, free campers at the parking lot, etc. Sometimes ambulances can't drive thru the cars. And, at least in my country (Spain), authorities don't say a word, just ask for more visitors, more incomes and taxes.
P.s. many of those bad boys from the past , now they own surf schools, don't tech etiquette at all and paddle out 20 kooks to the very peak, day in day out. ;-)
Great post…very rational argument for both sides. Just like anything in life… don’t be a dick.
I like localism it’s good to waive out the kook I surf Lake Michigan and there way more people out now a days it get old fighting for waves
Simply everyone wants the best waves and don’t know if the person next to then is going to hesitate so they just go but tell some one that it was their wave because they where on the peak is helpful teach someone they’ll appreciate it 🤙🏿
We need more localism. The anti localism side is just the kooks feeling entitled. So, today, a tourist rucks up, the locals are nice, as soon as we’re nice the F’r bombs the shoulder and drops in on us wave after wave after wave. Then there’s people we know, but aren’t regulars, many of whom are beginners, they do lots of stupid shit too, but it’s more tolerated because we know the live here (Hawaii). But people get told, and lately the regulars are talking more and more about the need to be vocal. We want to do it in a nice way, but it’s hard. And why don’t people who desire to surf, go read up on surf culture, TRY TO F’ING UNDERSTAND HOW IT WORKS, so we don’t have to be the bad guy telling you?!! We don’t want to be, you make us when: you paddle out the middle instead of the channel, paddle around us, shoulder bomb us, paddle in anyways even after you’ve been called off by the guy in priority, kick your boards at us, paddle across us when sets are coming and then go over the falls backwards onto us, etc. etc. In my last four sessions I’ve been dropped in on and run over at least once a session. One girl kicked her board into my chest from above while I was mid bottom turn. Not even a sorry I got! I ran over a guy I know Thursday cause I couldn’t see him with the morning sun in my eyes when he was paddling back out through the middle instead of the channel. His leg was filleted open and he went to the hospital to close the six inch long flap on his calve. I felt horrible. I was in the middle of my second bottom turn and he didn’t duck dive deep enough. We locals are getting TIRED of the, “accidents”! And it’s 99% percent of the time beginners or even intermediates that just don’t fully get it yet or didn’t grow up with the culture or at least try to LEARN IT! You can become a local by following the rules, showing up all the time, getting accepted!!!, and not being a snake. Take the waves we give you. Everyone has to do this when it’s not their spot. Then once you’ve earned it, you’ll have a spot. Put in the time and show us. Or go find another sport. We’re sick of the woke entitled bs in our lineups cause we’re sick of seeing people get hurt by people who don’t respect the culture.
Nah localism is so lame
@TheGuyBroNintySix ye bro if you get dropped in on I’d hit ‘em too lol, but localism sucks
@TheGuyBroNintySix meh I love locals but I hate when they think they’re superior and have a god given right to the wave. The sea is everyone’s man and shit happens, ain’t that serious
There are so many comments about giving locals respect. It's just rediculous! How can you possibly know who is a local? Also who defines it? If you live 20 feet from the beach or 2 miles or 3? Where's the cut off? And don't tell me the local will be sitting further out or is in the better take off spot because it's just not true. 30 years of surfing all over the world and ive never been able to spot a local. Just give everyone equal respect.
Well said my homie
Localism is stupid, selfish and not at all in the true spirit of Surfing!
localism...? we need localism!
living in Denmark in north Zeeland there are not many good waves, and with the Capital of Denmark near by a lot of weekend warriors comes to one spot. A few years ago the spot was friendly, the local bathers talked to surfer. Shop owners lived of us when we had to eat and drink after sessions. But then the surf boom came. All the new folks diden't understand the respect for the local population. and started stacking surfboards on the peer, standing i croweds on the stairs to the water etc.
the local population got so fed up that they banned surfboards on the peer. Cars were broken into, and the shop owners stopped servicing surfers.
the spot is blown for good and everybody knows that beginners rule that wave. the worst part of is that the crowd that ruind the spot is beginning comming to other spots, and us surfing those spots are trying to tell them how to be good to the locals, but im afraid that is a lost cause. I dont own the waves, and i dont have the right to ban other people. but hopefully the new crowd will learn how to behave as a good guest.
sorry for the bad spelling english is my 3rd langguage,
I live on the Gold Coast. All the beaches here are public beaches. The beaches belong to every member of the public. I do not need any idiot locals permission to surf at a public beach. The law says I am right. The dumb locals need to stop saying respect the locals. Everyone needs to respect everyone.
Localism is a good thing because when new or novice surfers come into the lineup, they usually don't have good etiquette, awareness, or an understanding of the value the waves really have. Without localism, new surfers would wreak havoc on surf spots. It's not their fault, you need to learn a lot to be a well rounded and good surfer in every aspect of the sport. I speak as someone who grew up surfing spots from Santa Cruz to San Francisco, but I was never actually a "local" that lived on the coast. If you're getting mad at people who try to create a sense of order, you probably just don't get it, or aren't a good enough surfer to see what serious safety problems beginners bring into what used to peaceful and well structured lineups. Also if you really don't like localism, go find your own wave. I live where surfing in popular, but I don't go to crowded surf spots because I like having my own lineup.
it's a necessary thing! for sure! !
It’s simple beginners belong at beginner breaks and advanced belong at better breaks, problem is beginners want to be cool and they think they are advanced. There are plenty of different waves, go to the one you belong at
Hmmmmm … could surf photography also contribute to localism… so many people trying to make money off surfing… UA-cam, Twitter, etc.every social medium. Surfing has been getting pimped out for a very long time.
It's a must, respect...
«2 cents probably” it was a good one😃😃😃
With the increasing number of people in the water, locals are keeping order and traditional values in line. Visiting surfers should show respect and stay low-key. There is limited resources and most locals see visitors as a safety threat.
I've seen people use localism to drop in on others an mostly be a dick. One thing that has come up for me is someone thought I wasn't a local at my own break. I went at vastly different time that I usually go. I knew a kid who went to juvie in highschool for pulling that localism stuff. Sucker punched a dude as he was leaving.
I always give respect to the locals. However, pop my tires, wax my windows or throw rocks at me, you will regret it. The dynasties must be overthrown when they ask for it.
"Locallsm" is definitely a California and Hawaii phenomenon based on being able to paddle out in Australia and Europe. I think a lot of it is just entitlement. Before the pandemic, when I used to paddle out between 42nd and 45th streets at El Porto, these 3 people were next to me in the lot complaining about the wave hogs out in the water. So I recommended that it was more chill South of the Rosecrans tower. One of them replied in the most "fahk yew" tone of voice, "we surf where we want." Then the other side, as Brad mentioned, the surfers that have been surfing that spot for decades, have earned it, and may assert that. I haven't experienced that in the South Bay, but when I go to see my folks on Oahu, I paddle out at the South Shore and there is this group of older regulars who I have seen out there for the past decade, who are all wave hogs.
Technically, the ocean is not "free." It is regulated by maritime law and other regional and local laws. Kayaks are included in the water craft that are supposed to comply with the maritime right of way.
Additionally, all public beaches are maintained by funds from tax payers, especially property tax. I suppose one can make the argument that having a multi-million dollar house on the sand entitles one to have priority at that beach since they pay more taxes, but then that raises other social equality issues.
I have learned to paddle out where there are shittier conditions to ditch crowds and don't even go out on weekends anymore knowing that a large percentage of new surfers give zero fahks about safety and etiquette,
No property damage or physical altercation definitely okay.
My friends are The Trestle
Most arguments I've seen are between confirmed surfers. Localism favors the bully; sure we sometimes have better sessions because you know most guys out there, but the price is countless sessions with bad vibes because someone harassed someone else next to you. Oh and the same bullies who "regulate" tend to yell at other locals; some feed off the bad vibes and end up getting more waves through intimidation, it's just wrong.
At this point, in California, it’s classism more than localism.
it sucks tbh. i understand people have surfed a spot for their whole life, but they don’t own the beach. It doesn’t help that the rules of surfing aren’t written down anywhere as well. That being said kooks should know their limits and hit up “novice” breaks vs the “more experienced” breaks. To stick with the snowboard metaphor, you would not send a novice on a double black diamond slope their first time.
Being a douchebag or attacking new arrivals (verbally or vehicularly) from the get-go just isn't justifiable. If surfers can use their words like rational adults and TALK to newcomers, that makes sense and will get them better results.
Up where I am the only spot you see localism now really just has one dude who's an asshole, and that hypocrite moved into the area just a handful of years ago. There's no place for it.