This is pretty much the case of good vs bad literature. Some pop novel might be enjoyed by more people than a literary canon novel, but the latter is still unarguably of higher quality. Now if we could combine the best of both worlds...
verto Handsome's maps are pretty good and, in my opinion, show both a "fun" and "challengeing" experience, while also staying true to the music consistently. But as I said earlier, this is just my opinion.
purpose of a map is pretty subjective. some think that it should be a reflection of a song, some think that if it's fun - it's good. osu is a bit different from other rhythm games, it has aim and visuals (not only clicking in time), so i think that both visions of a map purpose are ok
As a player who quit a bit after the era of maps like Needed Skill or Black n Yellow v3, this kind of maps is why I cannot make a comeback, even if I want to do it very much. The entire map is fragmented - straight line - luck/grind spot - straight line - grind pattern - etc. There is no skill left in the game. New maps are either something you have to grind to learn or they are full of invisible objects that do everything for you and lead you through beautiful decorations. No true gameplay left, sightread ability is now rendered useless. This is coming from a player who was one of the best back in the day. No wonder there are so many people playing in old school servers now - it's because new school destroyed itself. Watching something like Quantum v1 makes me want to play the game again, watching this makes me strongly reconsider my wishes. ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
Sooooo, that's pretty much playing a game for the gameplay vs playing a game for the story, right? I personally do not think you can call eaither ways of playing "good" as it is entirely subjective to one another. I liked the video though, you have a soothing voice
i am scared when mappers makes the most perfect representation of a song, the ar, slider speed and object distance matching the song and the nuances in certain parts is my kind of fun and my goal to achieve...
I just went out and played your "shelter" map because of this vid. I'll be honest: it is not my favorite map of this song, however, it is the only map I have EVER played where the double notes felt completely natural and fun (I usually hate double notes). I understand and agree with your "good" and "bad" criteria.
I don't enjoy pishi's maps very much even though I can't say it's bad tbh. Between braindead-jump maps and pishi's maps, I would choose the 1st option since it is more fun to play even if it's braindead.
I think I just found my reason to why i play this game, play from a mapper's perspective I mean I love maps where it all clicks and it's fun then i play a different map and suddenly the fun is gone, it's weird but, thinking about it feels awesome to know why i love this game. THANK YOU!
You can always tell whether a map is "bad" or not, mainly based on whether when you hit the notes, (From a players perspective) it could be off in a way. I've played lots of maps, I have come across good ones, and I've gone through ones where the Rythem doesn't change even based on the songs slow/fast paces of that part in the song.
Every map should be fun, it’s just that different people find different things fun. For example, people like -GN or Mafham might find maps that are hard to read fun while some of the player base do not find them fun. If they are not fun then what’s the point? Some people might find the little nuance choices in maps to complement the music fun.
I halfly agree with you but maps are still needed somewhat fun in it so it actually must be balance in good and fun for it to be the almost perfect map. Btw I love your shelter map
i'd love if you could one day make a video on mapper's style, like it was already asked on previous videos. pishi's, HW's, fanzhen's etc would be lovely to watch and try to understand the logic behind everyone's thoughts
that's nice to read; when i thought you were running out of subjects to talk about, you surprise us every week, which is nice :D any plans for the next segment?
Good Videos. Dont even play the game anymore, but listening to you explaining shit, while looking at the great visuals / editing is quite comfortable after a hard day of work :)
the point of a game is to have fun... therfore it doesn't matter if the mapping makes any sense paired with the music if there is someone having fun playing it. this isn't a science... it's just... a game.
fun just means its fun to play so any map can be fun just not to everyone sometimes some of the worst mapped maps are fun sometimes things are fun because they are done well.this video is like trying to define which art is beautiful or which people are beautiful its entirely subjective
Hey, You completely forgot about the song! If a song is fun, the map tends to be funnier (at least to me as an unexperienced mapper). A good exemple for it would be Usatei 2011 or Super nuko world. I just have a lot of fun playing those compared to more serious songs!
everyone has their own playstyle, pish. one persons reason for playing will differ completely from someone else's. some people only play one specific mod, some people play no mod, some people play a combination of mods, etc. meaning different mapping styles aren't going to attract the same types of players. some maps are catered to fit a specific type of playstyle, and this is completely fine :p me personally, i like hidden and hidden double time, because 1. i have trouble reading no-mod (dont as why because idk either :p) and 2. hd dt gives me a challenge. its one thing to play for just the music, but to challenge yourself to be as fast and as accurate as possible is more fun for me. keep in mind, not every "music exclusive" map is the same either, so we cant just rule out the playstyle and say its outright bad :p this isnt my view, just some people seem to not like "slowness" if that makes any sense. for me, if the approach rate is high enough, and the circle size is decent enough, anything is fair game; if i need to adjust my playstyle, then i suck it up and do it instead of complaining that the map is bad just because its not fun to me. thats the end of this essay, im a bit late, but idc because im cool like that :p keep these vids up man, i can speak for everyone else when i say we love em
sure you cant say this map is "bad" with players perspective but you can say you dont like it maybe some peoples confuse "i dont like it" and "This is bad"
I find fun in challenging myself with songs I can hardly beat, but I also really enjoy songs that I can just chill out and relax to while playing. I play songs kinda like Xi - Freedom Dive for the challenge, and then songs kinda like Demetori - Crimson Belvedere to enjoy the music and the map in their whole.
nobody has fun with those those groups of like 3-4 circles on top of each other espessially with a slider under it. we the players like streams to be very quick aim wise and simple jumps, Thats fun
I agree with most things, except the fact that a map should relate to the music. If a person finds it more fun to click random circles, than to play something that relates to the music, in the eyes of the player that map is better. And there's no reason to say that opinion is invalid, and that the other map is clearly better. Maps are subjective, and trying to define what maps are good is not really possible, since every map is seen differently by every player. The only thing we can do, in my opinion, is to listen to what a majority of people think is a good map, and go with that. Of course some things should be taken with a grain of salt, sometimes maps can be overhyped, and sometimes a hate train can happen towards a particular map. Sometimes a map can seem fun initially, but loose it's charm after a while, sometimes a map can look bad, but later become a classic, and we should keep all that in mind. But saying maps aren't good, just because they might not follow the music very well, doesn't make a lot of sense, if a lot of people disagree with it...
It's completely subjective, I enjoyed your map more than the other's because it gave me more challenge, although I did play on the 4 star diffs on others so who knows.
I think judging something by good or bad should always be avoided. Even in this case, you are judging the maps good or bad on your value and perspective on a map. For a general player, a difficult yet totally unrelated-to-music map might be pretty fun, and that's all they need: fun, thus the map is good for them. It definitely isn't an accurate or well-thought mapping(what you may call good) of course, but it can still be good for a lot of the players. BTW, I'm curious if you like the old BASARA map? @pishifat because the entire map's rhythm is not related to the music.
i like maps where it is smooth to play and flows with the sing i relay don't care about my rank as i tend to play 3 star over 4 just because its easier and feels smother.
One problem is the fact that a map being good is also completely subjective. You can't say that your interpretation of a song into a map is anymore "correct" you could say, than anyone else's interpretation. Because people experience songs differently depending on many different things.
It's not so much about whether an interpretation is "correct" or not, it's about how much interpretation there actually is; whether a map tends to accept losses in 'ideal' gameplay in order to be able to interpret the song in more layers than just the intensity of single beats for example
Its like anime. Most people watch mostly the generic low quality garbage that is just about tits, action and 1 dimensional stereotypical characters and ignore animes with a good story and plot and make the dumbest excuses like ''its too dialog heavy'' or ''i don't like the art''.
What if is using anime such as Grimgar. Would it be the same things too? The graphics was almost similar but not too much. Any ideas on video for mapping...?
Nice video as always! although I would like to know how the -recent- "not so recent" winner of the aspire contest map was made. Also nice skin! enjoying it alot.
Im not a mapper or a player i just like your sexy monotone voice
More I watch you, more I feel guilty for pp farming.
Learn HDHR, DT trash. (Kappa)
Well DT is trash.
AR 10.3+ with good acc needs skill. Just DT takes no skill.
Now HDHR is trash learn DT
Now hdhr and dt and hdhrdt is trash, learn play nomod/hd 8+ stars
Jk lol
pishifat for osu mapping president tbh
#MakeMappingGreatAgain
#WeNeedToBuildAMap
#AndItsHasToBeFinishedQuickly
I think I just died
#DontDieOnMe
This is pretty much the case of good vs bad literature. Some pop novel might be enjoyed by more people than a literary canon novel, but the latter is still unarguably of higher quality.
Now if we could combine the best of both worlds...
verto Handsome's maps are pretty good and, in my opinion, show both a "fun" and "challengeing" experience, while also staying true to the music consistently. But as I said earlier, this is just my opinion.
That's pishifat mapping.
Marvincent Acuña ayy lgv
WhatTheFookiz Fookiezi?
Marvincent Acuña yeaaa ^_^
I never even noticed the rule-of-thirds thing in the video. wow o_o
Because it's very common. If something's very common, you usually don't notice it. For example, portraits on paper money.
purpose of a map is pretty subjective. some think that it should be a reflection of a song, some think that if it's fun - it's good. osu is a bit different from other rhythm games, it has aim and visuals (not only clicking in time), so i think that both visions of a map purpose are ok
Very good video! I loved the comparison you made between mapping and music videos.
I asked you a question about a specific element of overmapping shelter and a whole video about Shelter arrived.
God bless you psichislim
Hey, I've seen you in one of HappyStick's videos!
wait, when did Happystick film me?
I meant in the comments
As a player who quit a bit after the era of maps like Needed Skill or Black n Yellow v3, this kind of maps is why I cannot make a comeback, even if I want to do it very much. The entire map is fragmented - straight line - luck/grind spot - straight line - grind pattern - etc.
There is no skill left in the game. New maps are either something you have to grind to learn or they are full of invisible objects that do everything for you and lead you through beautiful decorations. No true gameplay left, sightread ability is now rendered useless. This is coming from a player who was one of the best back in the day.
No wonder there are so many people playing in old school servers now - it's because new school destroyed itself. Watching something like Quantum v1 makes me want to play the game again, watching this makes me strongly reconsider my wishes.
( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
The ultimate Osu! map is one you should be able to play on sound alone!
deltamax death stack is for you
loved spica
i felt really emotional while watching this for some reason
I wanna quickly drop an opinion here without really thinking about if it was already said or not. So here we go
Osu looks fun
And it is! You should give it a chance :)
you're here forever
*Achievement unlocked*
you just blew my mind
Very timely video even nowadays
Sooooo, that's pretty much playing a game for the gameplay vs playing a game for the story, right?
I personally do not think you can call eaither ways of playing "good" as it is entirely subjective to one another. I liked the video though, you have a soothing voice
i find janky maps fun if theyt dont flow well thats good awkward aim just feels good
i am scared when mappers makes the most perfect representation of a song, the ar, slider speed and object distance matching the song and the nuances in certain parts is my kind of fun and my goal to achieve...
same, sadly i'm too stupid to understand it and being able to produce something
I don't care much about beatmaps, i just come to these videos because ur voice is soo relaxing
i enjoyed listening you ! Realy amazing words you told us ! But some words are not only for osu mapping:) ! Nice !
I kind of found that last sentence of yours beautiful. Huge thanks for making these!
I just went out and played your "shelter" map because of this vid. I'll be honest: it is not my favorite map of this song, however, it is the only map I have EVER played where the double notes felt completely natural and fun (I usually hate double notes). I understand and agree with your "good" and "bad" criteria.
Bro ur shelter map was the first map i ever downloaded on osu and got me hooked into the game, luved it!
keep up the good work man. loved your KIMITOOKU beatmap
I don't enjoy pishi's maps very much even though I can't say it's bad tbh. Between braindead-jump maps and pishi's maps, I would choose the 1st option since it is more fun to play even if it's braindead.
I have no idea what was going on, but the editing made me happy so +1 nice video
I think I just found my reason to why i play this game, play from a mapper's perspective I mean I love maps where it all clicks and it's fun then i play a different map and suddenly the fun is gone, it's weird but, thinking about it feels awesome to know why i love this game. THANK YOU!
wow thanks for bringin the Shelter memories back, I'm crying again
You can always tell whether a map is "bad" or not, mainly based on whether when you hit the notes, (From a players perspective) it could be off in a way. I've played lots of maps, I have come across good ones, and I've gone through ones where the Rythem doesn't change even based on the songs slow/fast paces of that part in the song.
I love everyone one of these mapper videos, can't wait for the next one :D
more relevant than ever
This is why I play osu. I LOVE maps that are made to fit perfectly the music. Please keep doing what you are
Every map should be fun, it’s just that different people find different things fun. For example, people like -GN or Mafham might find maps that are hard to read fun while some of the player base do not find them fun. If they are not fun then what’s the point? Some people might find the little nuance choices in maps to complement the music fun.
thaaaaaank you for the video pishi!
This video has been in my reccomended for like a month omg
Putting overweighted Santa-san in the bg while talking about players that have fun by climbing rank.
PishiSavage
i have no chances of mapping "good" so all of my maps is just fun
the feels, feels everywhere
EVERYWHERE
I halfly agree with you
but maps are still needed somewhat fun in it so it actually must be balance in good and fun for it to be the almost perfect map.
Btw I love your shelter map
Holy that's so good. I think all mappers could've this reflexion before ranking.
i'd love if you could one day make a video on mapper's style, like it was already asked on previous videos. pishi's, HW's, fanzhen's etc would be lovely to watch and try to understand the logic behind everyone's thoughts
i can only make 1 video a week :( stuff like that will come eventually
that's nice to read; when i thought you were running out of subjects to talk about, you surprise us every week, which is nice :D any plans for the next segment?
DAMN THATS A THICC ASS CURSER
Good Videos. Dont even play the game anymore, but listening to you explaining shit, while looking at the great visuals / editing is quite comfortable after a hard day of work :)
Amazing video! Your best one so far :3
the point of a game is to have fun... therfore it doesn't matter if the mapping makes any sense paired with the music if there is someone having fun playing it. this isn't a science... it's just... a game.
We're reaching levels of philosophy I never thought possible in Osu!
fun just means its fun to play so any map can be fun just not to everyone sometimes some of the worst mapped maps are fun sometimes things are fun because they are done well.this video is like trying to define which art is beautiful or which people are beautiful its entirely subjective
funnily enough i realy enjoyed your version of shelter... but im one of the players that enjoys maps that fit the music.
I'm not even a mapper and I'm absolutely loving all of these videos!
I find maps fun as long as its fun to listen to.
You sir are one brilliant genius.
This feels like a video for my film analysis class lmao
shelter flashbacks
*plays mad world*
I really like your map of shelter.
How did mapping become this hard, it makes me look at it like it's something extremely hard to do right
Lol my vision of "fun" is Monstrata's 'Goodbye to a World' map. Though pishi's shelter map is 10/10 imo.
Jay W This map is absolutely amazing
your videos are very good, subscribed :)
Hey, You completely forgot about the song! If a song is fun, the map tends to be funnier (at least to me as an unexperienced mapper). A good exemple for it would be Usatei 2011 or Super nuko world. I just have a lot of fun playing those compared to more serious songs!
everyone has their own playstyle, pish. one persons reason for playing will differ completely from someone else's. some people only play one specific mod, some people play no mod, some people play a combination of mods, etc. meaning different mapping styles aren't going to attract the same types of players. some maps are catered to fit a specific type of playstyle, and this is completely fine :p me personally, i like hidden and hidden double time, because 1. i have trouble reading no-mod (dont as why because idk either :p) and 2. hd dt gives me a challenge. its one thing to play for just the music, but to challenge yourself to be as fast and as accurate as possible is more fun for me. keep in mind, not every "music exclusive" map is the same either, so we cant just rule out the playstyle and say its outright bad :p this isnt my view, just some people seem to not like "slowness" if that makes any sense. for me, if the approach rate is high enough, and the circle size is decent enough, anything is fair game; if i need to adjust my playstyle, then i suck it up and do it instead of complaining that the map is bad just because its not fun to me. thats the end of this essay, im a bit late, but idc because im cool like that :p keep these vids up man, i can speak for everyone else when i say we love em
sure you cant say this map is "bad" with players perspective
but you can say you dont like it
maybe some peoples confuse "i dont like it" and "This is bad"
Now I'm gonna have to look at some of my maps that are... not so great. Glad I found someoone who shows how to map :^)
I find fun in challenging myself with songs I can hardly beat, but I also really enjoy songs that I can just chill out and relax to while playing. I play songs kinda like Xi - Freedom Dive for the challenge, and then songs kinda like Demetori - Crimson Belvedere to enjoy the music and the map in their whole.
i'm getting out of the farming phase. thank god.
nobody has fun with those those groups of like 3-4 circles on top of each other espessially with a slider under it. we the players like streams to be very quick aim wise and simple jumps, Thats fun
that ended abruptly
my definition of a fun map is any map without spaced streams :>
yes I'm bad.
The song was released long before the video
I agree with most things, except the fact that a map should relate to the music. If a person finds it more fun to click random circles, than to play something that relates to the music, in the eyes of the player that map is better. And there's no reason to say that opinion is invalid, and that the other map is clearly better. Maps are subjective, and trying to define what maps are good is not really possible, since every map is seen differently by every player. The only thing we can do, in my opinion, is to listen to what a majority of people think is a good map, and go with that. Of course some things should be taken with a grain of salt, sometimes maps can be overhyped, and sometimes a hate train can happen towards a particular map. Sometimes a map can seem fun initially, but loose it's charm after a while, sometimes a map can look bad, but later become a classic, and we should keep all that in mind. But saying maps aren't good, just because they might not follow the music very well, doesn't make a lot of sense, if a lot of people disagree with it...
The Song just fits.
Old maps = heaven for a touch player
You know what's not fun? The original airman.
Thats pretty fun actually
It's completely subjective, I enjoyed your map more than the other's because it gave me more challenge, although I did play on the 4 star diffs on others so who knows.
Shelter is so amazing !
I like your Shelter beatmap
damn that's some new stuff to think about in sleepless nights :o
I think judging something by good or bad should always be avoided. Even in this case, you are judging the maps good or bad on your value and perspective on a map. For a general player, a difficult yet totally unrelated-to-music map might be pretty fun, and that's all they need: fun, thus the map is good for them. It definitely isn't an accurate or well-thought mapping(what you may call good) of course, but it can still be good for a lot of the players.
BTW, I'm curious if you like the old BASARA map? @pishifat because the entire map's rhythm is not related to the music.
4:16 Because mise-en-scene or composition.
Question: why is deetz's dreamless wanderer your only favourited map?
deetz
And here's most of the players who have video disabled in osu!
Feel the song and mapping, best way :)
First
Can we marry, pishi?
wow take me out to dinner at least
pishifat Let's eat some pizza, darling.
Back off Marco!
pishi come with me, I will feed you spaghetti and meatballs instead!
Fml
i like maps where it is smooth to play and flows with the sing i relay don't care about my rank as i tend to play 3 star over 4 just because its easier and feels smother.
Soft, buttery voice........
One problem is the fact that a map being good is also completely subjective. You can't say that your interpretation of a song into a map is anymore "correct" you could say, than anyone else's interpretation. Because people experience songs differently depending on many different things.
It's not so much about whether an interpretation is "correct" or not, it's about how much interpretation there actually is; whether a map tends to accept losses in 'ideal' gameplay in order to be able to interpret the song in more layers than just the intensity of single beats for example
plz enjoy game
Its like anime. Most people watch mostly the generic low quality garbage that is just about tits, action and 1 dimensional stereotypical characters and ignore animes with a good story and plot and make the dumbest excuses like ''its too dialog heavy'' or ''i don't like the art''.
hoyl your voice is so good!
great video!
"Girl in wonderland", more like hell.
More like purgatory
What if is using anime such as Grimgar. Would it be the same things too? The graphics was almost similar but not too much. Any ideas on video for mapping...?
Plenty of people commenting here seems to have missed the point this entire video was getting at
Well then, i think i want to make some maps...
Nice video as always! although I would like to know how the -recent- "not so recent" winner of the aspire contest map was made.
Also nice skin! enjoying it alot.
I'm not sure if you've covered this already, but could you do a video (or devote a part of) on mapping structure?
Those who want to climb the ranks... "[P]layer [P]erspective" -> [P][P]
To me personally a good map is one that isnt annoying xd
Pishifat's mapping is good, but to most people find unconventional, i understand why.
your shelter map is better tbh
the shelter maps have too many quints ._.
2 things, add a fade out on the video, was a bit odd just cutting off. 2nd, is that cursor any good? It looks terrifying to play with lol
Can you (if its possible) make an osu!mapping vid about difficulty?