REAL airplane ownership costs - Piper Malibu Mirage
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- Опубліковано 30 чер 2024
- Are you researching airplane ownership? Confused by all conflicting information about hourly costs?
In this video, I break down every cost associated with owning and flying an airplane. I get specific, sharing real costs that factor into my hourly operating budget for a 1996 Piper Malibu Mirage (PA-46 350P). - Розваги
I have a well-kept 1985 Malibu. I’ve owned it for 6 years now. I would say that your non-annual maintenance costs are about right (I average about $6k between annuals). In six years, I’ve never seen a $10K annual. My lowest was $20K. I do take it to a shop that specializes in PA-46s so that may be part of it. These aircraft tend to eat cylinders (mostly exhaust valve wear), so I think you will need to plan for that. Every part on these aircraft are priced to the new ones coming off the line, so they are extremely expensive (e.g., heated stall warning switch is $6K and you need it for FIKI certification. The heated windscreens don’t last that long and they are a $35K to $40K item installed, etc). Do I love my Malibu? Absolutely! For what they do, they are cheap, but they aren’t cheap if you understand what I’m saying. I fly about 250-300 hours per year to put these numbers into perspective. Maybe you can do yours for cheaper, but just wanted to provide some additional real world data.
Nice! I hope I can do the same. Fingers crossed in a few months :-)
Appreciate the detailed breakdown. That first year is a killer as most owners will find out. Insurance does get lower as you build more time. Mine dropped by 30% in year 2. Approaching renewal next month so fingers crossed.
Oh man, that'll be great if I can save that much in Year 2!
What do you own? I watch a lot of your videos, but they're usually looking at other people's planes.
@@TaftLove I fly a Sling TSi. Yr 1 was $7600. Yr 2, $5500
@@mojogrip Amazing - those look like a lot of fun. Thanks for the info.
Thank you for taking the time to share real data and personal experience; both a super valuable for those of us considering a similar endeavor.
My pleasure! Glad you found it helpful. If you go down this path, good luck!
Great video! I've been considering upgrading to a Malibu & you've given me great data points.
Glad I could help!
Quite the eye-opener. Really interesting to hear a clear answer to a very specific question
Awesome, I hope it was helpful!
Excellent video. I really appreciate your thoughtful analysis.
Awesome - I hope it was helpful!
Appreciate the transparency! Love this plane!
It's my pleasure. Thanks for checking out the video!
Great video and I get to enjoy seeing how Austin Exec has grown from the old barn at Birds Nest Airport where I used to park my Cherokee back in the 1990's and living in Pflugerville.
Thanks! I have only been in Austin a couple years so I didn’t get to see that airport, but I can imagine it’s totally different now. Do you still fly around here?
@@TaftLove Sadly no we moved away from Austin a little over 4 years ago. As for birds nest it looks like the barn is still there. On google maps take a look just south of the segmented circle is where the old runway is located and the barn is next the pond. Funny story back in the day...the landowner on gregg lane had a beef with the owner of birds nest so he kept greg lane which was a dirt road back then and kept it so rutted i almost couldnt get to my airplane after a heavy rain...had to finally give up after a couple years and pay the high tie down fees at the old robert mueller airport...good times. I really appreciate the shared experience on the malibu as that is the airframe of choice for me if and a big if once my bitcoins hit another all time in a couple of years. Otherwise call me a small cessna driver until then. Cheers!
This was certainly helpful. Currently considering the Malibu as my next aircraft I feel storage will be a pain on my neck of the woods. SE FL
Yes sir - it’s a pain for me too. Long drive out to the airport where I have a hangar, so I mostly leave it short term parked at a closet airport for 4x the cost.
I hope you choose the Malibu. It’s a lot of fun to fly and definitely capable as a family/XC hauler.
Excellent breakdown, thanks for taking the time to make and share it. so year 2 onward you expect ~350/hr @250hrs/yr including reserves. Not bad, I pay more than that rating an SR22.
Thanks Wade! I think it’s entirely possible that it will fluctuate significantly and be much more expensive some years. Fingers crossed for it not going too high.
I've heard from A&P mechanics that if the plane is well kept and maintained in non-humid environments, you could probably fly waaay past TBO. It's really nice that you calculated within the manufacturer's recommended though, a good safety buffer for the wallet for sure! Great video!
Thanks Vince! Yeah, I'm hopeful that I'll go beyond 2,000 hours - fingers crossed!
Great analysis and great video presentation. One nitpick - I think more valid analysis of overhaul is $100K/1800 (estimated tbo) - $55 hourly, as this brings your plane back to its hours on the engine currently in place. (You wont need the next (second) overhaul in 800 hours, but it will be 2,000 hours (I'm adjusting to 1,800 hour tbo). Hope you keep producing awesome videos!
This is a good call out. Thanks for the note!
Great information, many thanks!
Glad it was helpful!
Thanks for the breakdown.
Glad it was helpful!
Good general cost of ownership (maintenance, operating, and storage) costs. The “economists” critique of not including acquisition cost may have validity, but if we were to really include all true (opportunity) costs, we probably would own our own airplanes. It is difficult if not impossible to quantify the value of convenience, and pleasure derived from aircraft ownership and operation.
Thanks Robert! I agree - you could always make it more complex. I'm afraid I'm not quite smart enough to use this as a jumping off point for an economics course :-).
I have a 1995 Malibu Mirage. I don’t have insurance and I’m about 600 hours past TBO. I live on a farm so I keep it in a barn and I use the long driveway as my airport. My hourly costs are very reasonable.
Love this!
Pablo Escobar had a Malibu Mirage. He actually made a profit from every flight…..🧐
@@Mike4444x Pablo was a good friend of mine. I miss him.
I'll shed some light onto this topic a little. Purchase prices makes complete sense, absolutely, if it's clean. Hangar, I'd say a quality hangar, big enough to fit the Malibu wing span, and safe enough to actually use is about $1200 a month average. Insurance actually a bargain, 18k for a 550k hull value with 300yr inexperienced pilot? Amazing price, it's roughly 12kna year on average, ATPL rated, similar hull value. Annuals, 10-20k a year min. 250hrs a year flight time? damn, I wish I had the free time. Avg about 100hrs in it. Random repairs and avionics upgrades, interior upgrade, washing, detailing, id say on the 100hrs avg, around $700 an hour. I recommend joining the Malibu Pilots Association. Avg cost runs from 700 low end to 1000, depending on what stage of life the plane is in. Also remember high chance it'll need a top end overall mid life, or closer to end of life. Bottom should be happy for like 3k hours on condition if flown well.
Thanks for the additional info John!
Great content! It would be great to find this type of into on a lot more aircraft. I love the Mirage and would consider it a perfect upgrade to Bonanza N923T. After watching, I still think it’s a great option… with 2-3 partners. 😁
Thanks - glad you liked it! Should have done something similar with the SR22. May have to dig back through the logs and see if I can put the same thing together.
Thanks that’s exactly it. Each plane frame and engine. Lightbulb moment.
You bet! Glad it was helpful.
Gulp. thanks for the breakdown. excellent video! So I know its personal, but I'd like to know if its WORTH IT ? especially considering you have to drive an hour to reach the airport. just subscribed.
Good question. I’m actually parking closer to home and paying a bit extra at the moment. Once I’m flying less, I’ll start parking an hour away, unless I can land a hangar closer to home.
Yes, it’s been worth it to me for sure. We’ll see how I feel a couple years in the future :-)
Thanks for the transparency. Perhaps the most amazing thing is your wife signed off on it all, you are a blessed man.
As an IA, I recommend my customers to overhaul their engines based on condition, not TBO. You may be able to get more than 2000hrs
I have to agree with you there! Lucky to have someone who lets me make huge, expensive mistakes without too much complaining :-).
Same here. If it’s over TBO per manufacturer recommendations I always have the owner sign off on declining TBO, but don’t label it as “airworthy” on the discrepancy list
Thanks and good job.
My pleasure. Thanks for watching!
Pretty sobering numbers, thanks for sharing.
My pleasure! For what it's worth, this isn't how I generally think about costs. Instead, I set aside money every year for the engine and just worry about short term costs like fuel when I fly. It doesn't *feel* as expensive that way :-)
The aircraft looks great with updated Avionics. Hopefully you have Garmin AP to help with a workload.
Thanks! Unfortunately the AP isn’t a GFC600. It’s a KFC150, which works fine but doesn’t hold a candle to some modern autopilots.
My goal is to upgrade to the GFC600 in the next year or so.
Really good detail and transparency. Are you able to fly LOP? That may give you a better shot at TBO? I've heard the Lyc is not as happy as the IO550 LOP.
Thanks! I've never flown LOP, but it is possible. It feels like the window for healthy leaning is more narrow than it was in the Cirrus (Continental). Another big difference is the fact that I don't have the lean assist that I had in the Cirrus with digital temperatures and peak tracking (not to say it's impossible without those - just helped me be more confident in my leaning, when combined with common sense).
Great video!
But it takes you an hour to get to Austin Exec?! What part of Austin are you in? Are you avoiding the tollway? 🙂
Good catch! It’s only 25 min to Executive from my house. My hangar is in Giddings, but I have been parking at EDC got a month or so for training and lots of flying.
I fly N464LB it is a 1993 Mirage. Your costs are very accurate, location would very, for instance, I live in Europe and here everything is basically more expensive. Just two comments, make sure you understand your annual maintenance costs, they can go up very easily if there are items you need to do due to aircraft age. I also add a paint job some years ago, not only it does look better but it took good care of the metal frame. Fly safe.
Sounds like we have similar airplanes! Thanks for the feedback. If I ever get to fly to Europe, I'll keep an ear open for you :-).
Thanks!
Great video. Ouch I guess I'll keep the Cherokee six a little longer!
Thank you so much
That's an eye opening breakdown. Thanks for sharing! Congrats on the new plane btw.
Thanks Cory! We'll have to find some time to go up soon.
@@TaftLove That would be exciting. Other than commercial, I've only flown in Piper Archers and a Cirrus once. :)
Ouch ! Thanks for info. I use swags too ( scrum / agile )
What about prop life? Pressurized, retractable, 6 seater and $6k/year? I hope I'm wrong, but that seems really low.
Good question. I’m sure there are some things I’ve left out that will come up.
My hope is that the $16k per year for annual and miscellaneous maintenance will cover most other stuff, but you may be right about it being too low!
While I did the breakdown by hour, that’s not really how I think about it day to day. I tend to pay for things as they come up without much of an eye toward budgeting. I mostly pay attention to the regular recurring things like fuel, oil changes, Etc.
Do you have any idea for what kind of break on insurance you are expecting? Have you talked to other pilots in a similar situation on year 2 insurance costs?
Good question. I'm not sure yet. I hear lots of different opinions here, but it sounds like I should expect a 20-50% break. If I had to guess, I'd say I'll expect to pay $12-14k next year.
Very good breakdown Mr. Love! If anyone needs any help with buying/selling, I'm VERY prevalent in the PA46 market!
Awesome! Not sure if I can pin this pots, but I know from experience that having someone knowledgeable is a big deal when you're buying an aircraft.
Nice breakdown…..
Appreciate it!
What model and year cirrus did you fly previously. What made you transition from a cirrus to piper and what other types where in your top three before buying the piper
Great questions! I made a video on exactly this topic: ua-cam.com/video/v7eUgrhS19o/v-deo.html
@@TaftLove great watching now
Great!!!!!!
Thanks so much for watching!
Random question? I currently fly a B36TC but have been looking at Malibu mirage for a while to upgrade to but I've never flown in one to be sure. I'm in Fort Worth, would you be interested in letting me fly with you? Just want to verify that this is the plane I want. Fits my mission for my family perfectly. I bought my B36TC with a plane partner without flying in it first except when we were going for the prebuy inspection and he already had his heart set on it and I gotta say I'm not that big of a fan of it. I trained in a Piper archer, flew a Cirrus for my IFR training and have flown in a few other airplanes including multiple piper types and for some reason Piper aircraft just speak to me (though I do love cirrus too). Can't figure it out but I just feel more comfortable in a Piper. Anyways would love to fly with you one of these days just to verify that I actually want to fly in one in the future. I'm a 300 hour pilot as well.
I'd be happy to give you a tour and take you up next time I'm up near DFW. Not sure if there's a private message option on here...
I'm considering buying one and selling my PA32R. What insurance company did you use? I'm in the same situation than you. No pressurized, but complex, 200h...
I worked with Travers Aviation. Look for a lady named Anna Rice - she's amazing to work with.
How expensive is a TBO on the piper 500 ?
its been a year now - how did your estimates hold up so far? A updated video would be great.
My estimate held up pretty well. Unfortunately, I ended up selling it and downsizing because we weren’t using it enough to justify the fixed costs.
It’s hard to say whether the estimate would have held up well over multiple years. There are big swings that can happen with such expensive parts.
I’ll do another update in the next few months with my new plane - an RV-7a.
Any update on insurance?
Kinda sums up that you need to be a millionaire to run one of these planes to stay comfortable
Yeah, while I’m not a millionaire (yet), I would have to be to buy anything bigger. I’ve scaled it back to an RV because it’s way too expensive if it doesn’t quite fit our mission.
How tall is the guy sitting right seat, at the 7 minute mark. Im 6ft8, flying a cirrus and wondered if this airplane is tall friendly..
I think you’re taking about my friend Chris. He’s 6ft7 and about 260lb. He’s a tight fit. He was more comfortable in my old Cirrus and his Comanche.
Here you go! ua-cam.com/video/0pw-KdvccmU/v-deo.html
I'm assuming these are personnel costs just to fly the plane. However, would this be your calcuations to consider the costs for a client. Profit ? etc... I'm not a pilot so my question is this. Do people spend this much just to fly for personnel satisfaction or do most people do this with intention of getting a clientele in order to pay the plane off. MSFS and Navigraph is now not so expensive afterall :)
Hi, I think Microsoft is the smart play.
This is purely my personal cost. I don’t have experience in charters, but the numbers I see generally are 3-5X my cost for private flights and a similar aircraft.
I have an Aerostar. I figure it’s $650 an hour hard costs including fuel, to fly her for 100 flight hours, minimum a year (w/o TBO costs for 2-350hp turbocharged engines)…. Or, $42,200.00 for one flight hour for the same year…. Not including anything for the price of the airplane 😫…. I should sell her and start golfing more… 😳
Oh man that’s a big swing if you don’t fly enough.
I’ve heard those can be a tough to fly but they’re beautiful. Do you like it?
@@TaftLove love it.. fast as heck and you do need to keep ahead of her…. She can bite.
@@TaftLove just for the heck of it? Chance out what a non-pressurized and 25% less powerful engines is capable of…. Wings are rated for 13 G’s and the tail section can handler 15 G’s. (Now, why? I have zero idea). ENJOY…. ua-cam.com/video/DEATyzoLG2Q/v-deo.html&feature=shares
Just for the heck of it? Chance out what a non-pressurized and 25% less powerful engines is capable of…. Wings are rated for 13 G’s and the tail section can handler 15 G’s. (Now, why? I have zero idea). ENJOY…. ua-cam.com/video/DEATyzoLG2Q/v-deo.html&feature=shares
@@visarma9673 That's pretty sweet!
How do you like your Malibu? Do you recommend it? Thx
Personally, I love it! I recommend it for anyone with my mission - carrying family on mid-range trips. It wouldn't be a great fit if it's for VFR flights to local fly-ins and $100 burgers, though.
What was your your year 2 insurance.
The quote I got was 13,000. I didn’t end up renewing because I downsized my plane.
if the plane is paid for are you required to have insurance?
No, you can fly without insurance. Most people usually at least carry liability insurance though.
dang that's expensive for hangars. SoCal hangars are about 250-300
This is the absolute cheapest I could find. It’s a ~70 min drive. The airport close to me is $1,800 per month for a Malibu hangar.
Curious why opportunity cost of capital isn't included. If your plane costs $535K and you can make for example 10% on that in the S+P 500 (historically) then add another $53,500 in cost per year of ownership. Is that part of the math ever?
It’s a good thought. It wasn’t a consideration for me, but certainly could be.
A few people have pointed out other things to consider, but I’m learning that you have to draw a line somewhere and I tend to aim for more simple models for this sort of thing.
That could be part of the math with paying cash vs financing. But you either decide to buy nice things and live a little, or live like a pauper so you can maximize the amount of money you invest in the market/real estate/etc. I just spent over 7 figures on an Eclipse jet. Did we need it? No, but we hate flying commercial, and my wife and I are creating great memories and having fun flying in the cockpit together.
@@rickdc3 great explanation. I agree.
This video makes me sad, I should have stay in the military and fly. I cannot afford GA with something that fits my mission. ughh good video
Funny, I think all the time that I should have gone the military route to fly instead of being a cop early in my career :-).
@@TaftLove doesn’t pay the best obviously but I did it to serve and now that I’m out and not being able to fly I’m really starting to regret retiring. Your plane is what I would love to own or a Cessna 340 but man the prices now compared to just a few years ago. Wow
How do u afford this cost being a cop. It's insane how much these cost up front. Thought such planes would be 100k but half mil is insane price.
You have a spot at austin executive for $350/mo?!
No way. I got a spot at Giddings for that.
Sr-22 or M350?
This one is the Mirage (pre M350). Two different missions entirely so hard to compare. I like flying the SR22 on short hops but the Mirage is really nice for long trips. Getting up high without needing 02 is pretty great.
Amendment to my last comment : intended to say “we probably would NOT own our own airplanes
So that's less than $1.50 a mile in your second year if you fly 250 hours. I remember years ago my Piper Lance was about 75 Cents a mile.
Oof - that's a big difference. Curious what a Lance would cost today...
I can't even afford the fuel cost per hour, LOL
I get it! I spent my first 10 years after dropping out of college saving for months just to do a 1 hour flight lesson. Hopefully you'll also be fortunate (financially) and get there soon!
you're overpaying for an annual. That's ridiculous! Maybe the first annual but if it's regularly maintained by the same A&P it shouldn't be that much. Bring it so Mountain View Aviation at REI outside of LA. He's done some Malibus before
No he's not. This is an extremely complex airplane with extremely expensive parts. This isn't a 172
Are you an IFR pilot?
Yep! Got my IFR ticket a year ago.
@@TaftLove IFR is my goal for next year.
@@19ij that’s a good goal. Definitely doable!
Ballpark what are you making a year?
I’m an employee and a business owner (side gig, but one where I’ve been fortunate) so it fluctuates pretty significantly.
My company pays for a lot of the flying expenses, so I don’t make enough to pay these costs without that.
I can say it’s a good bit more than I made in my 20’s as a small town coo in Nc :-).
@@TaftLove Nice!!! Thanks for that it really gives me prospective I make roughly a bit over $100k and I would love to owe a Malibu but I'm just not sure how much sacrificing will need to be done lol.
So if you put $500 per flying hour into you aircraft account, you should be ok, ish.
Yeah I think that's probably about right!
The real cost is everything you have 😊
Hit me up if you're ever in Waco, TX (ACT)! I'd love to buy you lunch or coffee and pick your brain. I am looking into getting my private pilot's license.
Heck yeah. I’ll let you know next time I get up that way. Happy to take you up!
@@TaftLove I didn't see your contact info on your YT about page. Shoot me a DM through IG. The link is on my YT about page.
So, you "Skipped" purchase costs? Well, unless someone "Gifted" you that plane, that was an Error!
It IS a part of the "Fixed Cost Calculation" even if it is "Hard" to choose How you will do it! If you paid "Cash", the money you used to buy it, is no longer available for other activities, or Investments, so, there is an associated "Opportunity Cost" there, at least! Of course, it is "Easier" to identify the Purchase Cost portion, if it is Financed, or Leased with a Buyout option at the end.
Plus, operating costs go up with greater use, but per hour fixed costs go down with greater use. There is no "Simple" formula, but it's kinda like the ratio of Interest versus Principle, on a Note or a Mortgage.
Or, you could say, there is a certain point, like the flight equivalent of "Lowest Energy Consumption" such that either side of that point, requires more energy, as to per hour use costs, going from 10 hours per year, to 20 hours per year, might be a greater difference, than going from 100 hours per year to 200!
He’s looking at ownership cost, not acquisition cost.
This is a good point. If you would put 540,000$ into a nothing special Vanguard account, you would have made 240,000$ after five years. If you invested 60,000$ a year into same account you'd make another 70,000$ or so. After 10 years this is well over 1,000,000$ of profit.
Guy doesn’t make sense