Yes, they bought and fitted them so that I didn’t have to 😇 That’s the big advantage of having a community within the channel really 👍 Thanks LE 🥃 ER and Ruby
@@economicalrides We all benefit, don't we. I'm only used to Girlings and the standard Meteor ones seem just like them so I'm happy. 😊Actually, amend that, the ride with lower tyre pressures (26 front and rear now) made a big difference. Probably UK or European tyres would be better than the CEAT fitted. We'll have to wait until someone tries them. Very tempted to go for Avons myself.
Thanks for sharing this. Experimenting with different additional parts and testing them is always interesting and fun. Enjoyable video ER. You got my like here. Just keep up.
@@sumitbhandarkar3701 Happy to have you here my friend and if you have any Meteor questions, feel free to ask. I’ve been loving mine for nearly three and a half years and 13000 km 👍 Thanks for watching and commenting 😂 Garry
hi, Garry ( and Ruby ) always good to hear of any mods people carry out on bikes we own. having owned many bikes from the 1950s onwards I tend not to be too critical myself and will carry on with the standard items. It was interesting all the same though.
Hi John, yes, I'm like you, I'm quite happy to leave every bike I own as standard as possible these days. I think the Meteor could probably use softer rear springs though, so a shock upgrade like Corrado's might be on the cards. I'm struggling to think of anything else I would like to change on the Meteor though. Once I get the new mirrors and hopefully later, some softer shocks, it will be darn near perfect for me. Take care John 🙂 All the best, Garry & Ruby
Thank you ER! Allow me to say that i always believe that for bikes like the Meteor upgrades dont worrh it. I prefer staying with the original parts. Otherwise there is no end to it and i would go with a different bike from the beginning. But that is just me.
That’s pretty much how I see it too ! The only thing my Meteor really needed was luggage but even sorting that out took me a while. The beauty of the Meteor and the Classic is that they are gorgeous and eminently usable bikes from the factory. There really are no mods you absolutely must make, I totally agree ! Also, having modded everything on my old Bullet 500 I am tired of the whole thing. I spent more time trying to make that bike decent than I ever did riding it ! Cheers spyridon1971 👍 ER
@@economicalrides Just read these comments and agree with what you both say. RE got it right at the design stage and into manufacturing. There are plenty of other machines available which might suit better without changing things. These modding accessories bump the original cost up to the prices of other manufacturers bikes. Keep it Economical Riding! 😊
@@Lanes-Explorer5733 Absolutely and the Bullet experience cured me. Now I just ride my bikes rather than thinking about what to improve next. I find it liberating not having to fixate on “the next mod”. I had the panniers lying here for a couple of months before I first attempted to fit them 😂 I’m definitely not a modder but do enjoy seeing what others have done through Other Bods’ Mods. Other people’s mods can be a source of inspiration, so no harm in seeing what others have done to their bikes. Cheers LE ER & Ruby 👍
The best stock shocks I’ve had were on my Honda 750 Aero. At the lowest setting they were actually soft. And when cranked up were actually stiff. The problem with most other shocks is that they have no range.
Hi, well, I subsequently discovered that the OEM shocks on the Meteor are much better than I thought to begin with. They seem to have a problem when there is no preload on the spring ( the factory setting ! ). In that situation it seems as though the damper sticks, which then stops the spring from compressing or moving at all. As soon as you add one click of preload to the spring, the whole setup starts moving as intended. When I use a rear facing camera I can see the spring and damper working away as you would expect. With the factory setting of no preload the rear was basically solid 🤷♂ So although the range of the short spring might not be the greatest, the main problem with these units seems to be that the damper will lock out the suspension if there is no preload working upon it. Thanks for your input 🙂 Now that they are actually working as intended, I am happy enough with the OEM units and won't be replacing them until they have worn out. Then there are definitely better options available. Cheers, Garry.
I fitted Hagons to an 865 Bonneville and they improved significantly with mileage. As others have said, if you phone Hagon, they will ask your weight and riding style then tailor them to your needs at no extra cost. I fitted Hagon fork springs at the same time as the front affects the performance at the rear. That Bonnie was incredibly comfortable and handled like a sportsbike when I sold it 15000 miles later. Better bang for buck than any engine upgrade.
Good to hear Paul, I will let Glynn know that they should soften up with mileage, he just needs to ride more 😛 Glynn ordered the Hagons on the phone and they did set them for his weight etc as you described. It’s just that they do not feel much plusher than the OEM shocks at the moment. I will get him to put some more miles on them and report back Paul. Thanks for your input. I know that Hagons are supposed to be very good, just maybe not the most “economical” 😝way to improve the ride comfort of the Meteor, as things stand. Cheers Paul 👍 ER.
I had the same problem with the hagon shocks which were made for my weight, I gave it a 100 miles to see if they got softer but no improvement, I sent them back to hagon and they fitted even softer springs, much better now although I don't think the Meteor will ever give a plush ride.
@@jamesbarrie2458 Thanks for that James, that’s great first hand feedback. Maybe when Hagon hear “Meteor” they grab a certain spring out of the warehouse but maybe they need to go one softer for this particular model, as in your case. I could well imagine that Hagon are being too conservative on Meteor springs, not realising that they need to go a bit softer for this particular bike. Maybe I should have a word with them myself 🤔 I will let Glynn know, maybe he can get softer springs fitted to his Hagons too ! Thanks for that, it’s really good to know that Glynn isn’t the only one thinking that the standard Hagon spring is not adding softness to the ride 👍 Cheers James, it’s great when the ER community try to help each other out 🥃 ER
I should mention that hagon did not charge anything for the second spring change, I just had to pay shipping to send them back. They are a very good company who want to get it right. I should also point out that roads in my area are pretty bumpy so I am probably asking a lot of the Meteor.
@@jamesbarrie2458 That's great James. I would have expected no less from Hagon, such a great company with great customer service. With a relatively short spring and the top shock mount being almost directly under the base of your spine, I don't think the Meteor can ever give a plush ride but an improvement over the standard ride would definitely be welcome for most owners. I have informed Glynn that you had softer springs fitted by Hagon and maybe he will get in touch with them himself now. Thanks James, really helpful information 👍🏻 ER
Sounds good Lance. Let us know if you get some different shocks and if they improve the ride for you. It’s great to have options 👍 Good luck with your other mods too ! Cheers Lance and love to Leo 🐕 ER
@@economicalrides Thanks, will do. Some people are not in favor of mods. The way I see it, is as long as you keep the original parts, the bike can be restored to original. Just stay away from the cutting torch...
@@lancerbiker5263 😂😂😂 Very true ! I dread to think how much damage I could do with a cutting torch Lance 😱 I’m dangerous enough with a screwdriver 😊😇 Cheers Lance 🍺 ER
Hi Exmouth 👋 To be fair it’s a common problem with cruisers in general. The small rear wheel means that there is less room for a longer shock, which would allow more travel, more travel would enable them to use a softer spring. If you have to fit a short shock, you will have to fit a heavy spring to try to prevent bottoming out ( because you don’t have the travel ). I suppose cruiser riders are used to it because a twin shock setup is still an improvement on the old hardtails they used to ride 😂 A dual shock setup on a cruiser is always going to be tricky to make plush. You need to come up with a different solution if you want a decent ride. Hence why many Japanese cruisers have weird monoshock setups, which work well but don’t look “right”. It’s all a compromise but a dual shock cruiser is always going to be better off AVOIDING the potholes, wherever possible 🙂 I think I will give this shock upgrade a go on Buddy, I just hate having to deal with Spanish customs and the Endurance shocks ( incidentally Endurance make the forks and shocks for the new Triumph 400s, presumably because Bajaj uses Endurance suspension ) are only available from India. But it does seem to be a worthwhile upgrade, particularly in the UK where the road surfaces are particularly shite ! Have a great weekend. It’s very hot and muggy here in France today ! 😓 On days like this, your Exmouth is very appealing 🥰 Cheers matey 🍺 El Outro
Hi ER. The Indian shocks sounds like a good value solution, but the Hagon Shocks can be tailored to your personal weight and requirements. Don't know the difference in costs but the 1st example may have missed and opportunity. Will be watching for updates.
Hi Tim, no, Hagon did ask for Glynn’s weight and set the shocks up accordingly. I’m pretty sure that he then started softening them up once fitted but still didn’t notice much of an improvement. If the spring Hagon use isn’t considerably softer than the standard one, it makes sense that the ride wasn’t much improved. The spring on the Indian shocks is narrower and uses a thinner wire thickness in the spring and I imagine that is what makes them more compliant. Difficult to know without having tried both myself but as of today I would definitely say that the Indian shocks are the better option for improving ride comfort. Corrado got the tip from some Royal Enfield forum and it seems as though quite a few people are recommending these shocks. I’m sure that the Hagons are a much better shock but probably not better in terms of softness. Cheers Tim 👍 ER
Hi Wakash, well by all accounts the “Endurance” RE shocks do soften the ride. It is mentioned on many RE forums and is becoming quite a popular Meteor mod 👍 I will almost certainly get some myself as soon as I can afford to ! Cheers Wakash, ER
It’s possible that Glynn’s shocks may improve but the Indian shocks were significantly softer straight away, so definitely the ones to go for if you want a reasonably cheap improvement in ride comfort. Cheers Mark, ER
Hi Garry, Thank you for the compliments, which I appreciate very much. Very well realised video. I just hope that if you buy them and don't like them you won't ask me for a refund 😂 Cheers Garry and Ruby!
😂😂😂 No don’t worry, I’m sure they’ll be fine. Knowing that you are happy with them is so much better than having to buy them “blind”, hoping that they’ll improve matters but not knowing, so thank you. I also hope I didn’t murder your surname too badly and apologise for not mentioning Arthur and his help in translating 🤗 I intended to but I forgot to mention it in my voiceover. Take care Corrado and enjoy the improved ride 👍 Cheers 🍺 Garry & Ruby ( who sends much love to Arthur The Rascal ) 🐕
Hi Garry. No problem with the pronunciation of the surname. 'GN' in Italian is not easy to pronounce, it's (almost) like saying 'Spañolo', with the n of mañana. Cheers Garry, love from Arthur to Ruby
@@corradospagnuolo614 I actually thought that initially but then erred on the side of caution and sounded the ‘g’. Like Bologna then 👍 I’ll get it right next time. Apologies to Arthur though for not mentioning his valuable contribution to the project 😛👍🐕 Thanks Corrado and Arthur, Garry & Ruby
@@corradospagnuolo614 I actually thought that initially but then erred on the side of caution and sounded the ‘g’. Like Bologna then 👍 I’ll get it right next time. Apologies to Arthur though for not mentioning his valuable contribution to the project 😛👍🐕 Thanks Corrado and Arthur, Garry & Ruby
Thanks William, the main reason for having this channel is to share experiences and information about the bikes I own, so glad to hear it ! Thank you and take care William 👍 Cheers 🍺 ER
@@WilliamAPBodie 😂😂😂 I get it now, sorry William , very tired today 🤗 Cheers buddy, I need a whisky 🥃 and then bed 🛏 But of course you absorb all I say 😉 ER
ER, I was hoping that Glynn would comment on how the taller Hagon shocks would affect his handling. I was thinking of getting a taller than standard set, so as to reduce the rake and trail a bit, thus improving turn-in. Theoretically, that should happen, as elevating the rear end should slightly decrease the rake and trail; this, in turn, should quicken turn-in a bit. Rather than getting a second bike, I thought I'd try this modification first. Oh and BTW, because it was August, I only took my Meteor out twice on local, spirited rides on hilly terrain. Between the two rides, I rode 84.7 miles, while consuming 1.1 gallons of fuel. That equated to 84.7 miles per US gallon, which works out to 92.4 miles per Imperial gallon. I wasn't trying to get good fuel economy, but the Meteor gave it to me anyway... :)
Hi Mark, well Glynn did get the shortest ones they do, 31cm I think, to keep the stance of the bike the same, as far as possible. Hagon do a couple of longer sizes to maybe achieve the effect that you are looking for. The Indian shocks have a shorter spring than standard but the shock length centre of mount to centre of mount is exactly the same as the OEM shocks, so the Indian shocks definitely won’t change the stance at all, just soften the ride. It sounds as though your Meteor is running perfectly now Mark. Nothing wrong with those economy figures. The only time my Meteor drinks significantly more is when I start to ride above 55 mph. Up to 55 mph the economy seems to always be around 100mpg Imperial for me, like you say, without even trying, just riding normally 👍 Cheers Mark and good luck with your own Meteor ! ER
Glynn here .... Marky, I haven't noticed any difference in the handling of my Meteor since fitting the Hagons. My riding is targetted at nice bendy country roads (straight roads are too boring !) and I've been smitten by how good the handling of the Meteor is from the outset ! (my previous mount was an Interceptor, which was also very good) To be honest the change to Hagons was more to do with rider comfort over our poor UK roads. Generally, I think that Royal Enfield have done a splendid job with their OEM units, but I wondered if fitting what must obviously be a better quality pair of rear suspension units would improve the already fantastic 'bike even more. Bearing in mind that I've only covered just under the total running-in mileage, the OEM units haven't suffered the ravages of time, so would still have been giving of their best. The miniscule increase in the Hagon (standard) suspension length isn't noticeable in practice (I'm vertically challenged and can still touch the ground, snigger !). I haven't done many miles on the Hagons (it's tipping it down with rain so I'm not venturing out to my 'bike garage to check how many miles covered !) but the function may improve slightly with more use (but any improvement will obviously be very gradual, so my old bones probably won't detect such an improvement ! : - )
@@nearlypastit2385 thank you! While I like and enjoy my Meteor, it'd be nice to have a a bit quicker turn-in. So, what did you think of the Interceptor vs. the Meteor? What prompted the downsizing? I'm interested in the Super Meteor that makes use of the Interceptor's engine, and I've also toyed with getting an Interceptor. Since you've had both, it would be interesting to hear your thoughts on both bikes.
@@markymarknj Marky, I really liked my Interceptor. I've owned a couple of Bonnevilles in the past, and, for me, I found the interceptor to have a bit more character (especially over the T100 I had which I found a bit clinical) albeit the Inter obviously has less overall power. My riding is purely for pleasure, swinging down country lanes in Hampshire at moderate 40 - 50 mph (I still have the very last couple of hundred miles of running-in to complete). The Interceptor had sufficient power (in a modest sense) to do sneaky overtakes of cars on the intermittent straights, so I didn't have my fun spoiled by slowing cars on the upcoming bends. Whilst overtaking a line of several closely spaced cars not long back (perhaps a teeny-weeny bit over the speed limit and if it was it was purely to get back to my side of the single lane carriageway asap. Honestly officer) I considered during the overtake that if a mid-placed car from the line pulled out to do an overtake without the driver doing a mirror check, I would be toast. I have old bones (I'm in my mid 70's) and should I damage my personal chassis (bones) any damage may never repair completely. I also live on my own so there would be huge day to day problems. I investigated the Meteor (and the 350 Classic) as alternative machines so that I might continue my 'biking pleasure, but not have the temptation of pushing-the-limit overtakes (it was like me having 'goodies' in the cupboard at home where my self control gets up and goes. I'm ok in the shop but, but if I do weaken, once the goody is available indoors it will have a very short life. My use of the twist-grip suffered the same lack of discipline I'm ashamed to say (albeit I do otherwise try and ride defensively). My change to the Meteor was done with some reticence I must say ... would I be satisfied with the lack of top-end speed ? (I should also point out that I've had a bad habit, both now and in my youth, of not keeping a 'bike for very long before I find a spurious reason to change) I found the character of the Meteor suited me down to the ground perfectly. That single single engine pulsating away underneath me, the confidence inspiring roadholding (relative to my type of riding, obviously) , and the Meteor is the most comfortable 'bike I have ever ridden. I'm not at all sorry I changed, but I wouldn't 'dis' the Inter at all (it seems common knowledge that the Inter seat isn't very comfortable after about an hour's ride, but my Triumphs were the same. I adopted a trick I found on-line of wearing padded cycling shorts for longer rides. (Not just those I might stress !!!). I had fitted the R/E touring seat as well. For me, I find the character of the Meteor's engine is a massive part of it's charm. I'm not sure I would be so enamoured with the Super Meteor (purely a personal observation. Each to their own of course). I hope I've given you a useful steer. Sorry you've had to read a novel in the process. :-)
Hi, After watching your video I approached Royal Enfield service center for replacement of rear shocks to nitrox. They replied to me that if I replace it, I will lose the warranty. I have a doubt that the service center is misleading me. Can you please clarify me about this?
Hi there. Well I think that may well be true. Usually in a manufacturer's warranty the fitting of non factory parts can invalidate certain parts of the warranty. It all depends upon the exact wording of the warranty agreement. I believe there is a transcript of the warranty agreement in the User Manual (?). Certainly when I bought my Meteor there was. See if you can find clarification there. Have you tried adding two clicks of preload to the factory shocks ? It makes a massive difference ! Since doing that, I am happy enough with the ride on the factory suspension. It is much improved. With zero preload the damper seems to stick and stop the spring from moving. Adding preload prevents that from happening and you suddenly notice that you have rear suspension that actually moves up and down ! If you haven't tried it yet, do give it a try. Maybe you can save yourself the hassle of an upgrade, like I did. Cheers Blackboard, Garry
Even being a fat 18st Meteor owner I can't say I've found any issues with the stock shocks. They didn't feel great at first but then I adjusted the preload about half way and they felt twice as good straight away. Tbh they haven't even crossed my mind until this vid. If you get new shocks it'd definitely be interesting to hear how you get on.
Ok Wayne, I will definitely do a video on them once I have them. Actually, in this case, your weight may be working to your advantage ! In general the standard spring is too stiff IMO. So for lighter riders there is very little give initially. The softest part of the spring is simply too stiff for many of us 🙂 Whilst saving for the shocks I think I might just take out all of the preload and see if that improves matters. I think not, simply because the spring itself is too stiff. Cheers Wayne 👍 ER
If you could let me know how you get on Paul, that would be very helpful. Plenty of options out there but it would be great to find the best one ! If you could share your experience with the community here that would be greatly appreciated 👍 Thanks Paul and good luck 🤞 ER
I'm from Brazil and I've been using the Classic 500 shocks on my Meteor for about 6 months and I can say that the improvement was around 40-60% in comfort. However, I still haven't found a solution for the front suspension, as they remain rigid and with low impact absorption. If you have any suggestions like please help me.
Hi Max, yes, it seems as though the Classic 500 shocks give a decent improvement to the ride comfort of the Meteor, I haven't heard of a better option yet ! I haven't heard of anybody changing the springs in the front forks unfortunately, so can't recommend any upgrades for those. Most of us just wanted the bike to be softer at the rear to relieve the back pain that a bumpy surface can cause. The forks may be stiff but at least they don't send the jolt into your spine like the rear spring/damper units do ! Thanks for your feedback. If you want to soften the forks, I would talk to a suspension specialist in your country and see what it would cost to change the springs for something softer. I think the fork legs are a fairly standard diameter, so it should be possible to get some different springs in there. Maybe go with progressive springs. Soft at the beginning of the stroke and stiffer as the forks compress. RE probably already have progressive springs in there but maybe the soft part of the spring needs to be even softer. Good luck. At least you've managed to improve the rear end, which is the part most of us were complaining about ! Cheers Max ER
@@economicalrides Thanks for indication. At the moment I am initially considering trying another fork oil with a more appropriate viscosity. I checked that according to the service manual, the oil used is classified as 2w25. Although manufacturers occasionally disagree about these numbers, especially for our country, this viscosity is not adequate. I'm still investigating this further. BTW, thanks for a lot!🙂
Thanks TAYM 👍 Since I don’t like doing mods, I’m always grateful when others do them for me 🙂 At least there is an option out there which seems to be a step in the right direction. Cheers TAYM, ER
This video already answers that question. Currently the RE Endurance shocks for the old Classic 350 are the cheapest and most effective option, giving 50-60% improvement in ride comfort. Just swap the bushes and they are an easy swap. Cheers ER
@@bhoirkaran08 Hi Karan, unfortunately I don't know the answer to that question. I suspect not, based purely on the fact that Hitchcock's seems to sell separate shocks for both models and on each item they explicitly say, Interceptor YES, Meteor NO or Meteor YES and Interceptor NO. I would suggest you do a Google search. I just did a quick one and didn't come up with an answer. But by all accounts, the shocks from the previous generation Classic are a decent improvement, as I mention in this video. you just need to swap out the bushings and they will fit. So that would be the RE shocks marked with ENDURANCE. I think they are probably a decent, inexpensive option. I would get some myself if shipping things in from India wasn't such a pain here in Spain ! Cheers Karan, ER.
Hi, in a later video I found out that adding two or three clicks of preload gets the rear suspension moving properly. It's much better now. The Endurance gas filled shocks still seem to be the best value for money upgrade but since adding preload I am happy enough with the OEM shocks. I think RE are using very stiff springs because many people in India ride with a pillion passenger. If you are a light solo rider, there is not enough weight on the first part of the spring to make it move. By adding preload it moves the unit onto a softer part of the spring as its starting position ( they are progressive springs ) and then you do get much more suspension movement and the ride becomes much better. I will be sticking with the OEM shocks until they wear out because I don't find them too bad at all now. Hope this helps ! ER.
really interesting video, I have the endurance shocks on my 500 now, they are not particularly comfortable or soft over a good bump, the ride on the tranny is much better, it just sides right in but the bullet is much firmer and its much harder to the point my backside aches after a while. surprisingly the tranny does it better but I'm only on 700 miles on the bullet so it will probably get softer over time but then it might be more comfortable too as I don't ride it as hard as the tranny as it's just not as big machine, looking forward to your experiences and how it performs for you😁🖖🏼 hopefully it will be a goer after a swap and be a quickie to do
Thanks Quinn. That just confirms to me that the standard Meteor shocks must be WAY too stiff 😂 It will be a while but eventually I hope to try the “Endurance” shocks myself 👍 Cheers buddy 🍦🍦🍦 ER
Haha, no, still waiting to hear from the stealer on that one. They have the photos and information, hopefully I will hear something this week ! Cheers AR 🥃 ER
do you know if the Hagons were purchased direct after a phone call to Hagon? I ask because I'm told if you call Hagon, they will discuss your weight, load and use so they can somewhat tune the shocks to you needs (I've had a great experience with another suspension company - Wilbers - where I gave all the info and they send a set of suspension that was really well matched to my needs and needed very little setup - just a little sag adjustment) Of course the setup is also critical and not everyone knows how to do that properly 🙂 I've also heard the old classic shocks are better, so a very interesting video. I'm going to wait a while before I change things on my Classic in any case
Hi Ian, yes they were purchased by phone and Hagon built and set the shocks to Glynn’s weight. I just think the spring they are using is still too strong, like the OEM one. So are you thinking of better shocks for the Classic to improve handling and suspension control ? Because the ride on the Classic is way plusher than on the Meteor, I’m very happy with the ride comfort on the OEM shocks on my Classic. Just curious. Cheers Ian, ER
@@economicalrides good point about the hagons, I had a similar experience, but they eventually got more compliant, or I got used to them! As for the Classic, I'm pretty happy with it but recognise I may want an even better ride in future 😀
@@iancatlin5985 Hi Ian, Paul Stredwick in another comment here says that the Hagons on his Triumph softened a fair bit over time, so similar to your Wilbers. I have informed Glynn of this and he will let me know if his Hagons soften up significantly. The Indian shocks definitely seem to be softer right away and of course only cost half as much as the Hagons. With the Classic I feel no need to change things but the Meteor rear end could definitely do with being a bit softer, just to protect your spine over bumps ! Cheers Ian 👍 ER
Thank you ER and the two owners for the information.
Yes, they bought and fitted them so that I didn’t have to 😇
That’s the big advantage of having a community within the channel really 👍
Thanks LE 🥃
ER and Ruby
@@economicalrides We all benefit, don't we. I'm only used to Girlings and the standard Meteor ones seem just like them so I'm happy. 😊Actually, amend that, the ride with lower tyre pressures (26 front and rear now) made a big difference. Probably UK or European tyres would be better than the CEAT fitted. We'll have to wait until someone tries them. Very tempted to go for Avons myself.
Thanks for sharing this. Experimenting with different additional parts and testing them is always interesting and fun. Enjoyable video ER. You got my like here. Just keep up.
Thanks RRR !
Hopefully I can afford my own shock upgrade soon 👍
Cheers 🥃
ER
I am glad that I discovered your channel buddy!
@@sumitbhandarkar3701 Happy to have you here my friend and if you have any Meteor questions, feel free to ask. I’ve been loving mine for nearly three and a half years and 13000 km 👍
Thanks for watching and commenting 😂
Garry
hi, Garry ( and Ruby ) always good to hear of any mods people carry out on bikes we own. having owned many bikes from the 1950s onwards I tend not to be too critical myself and will carry on with the standard items. It was interesting all the same though.
Hi John,
yes, I'm like you, I'm quite happy to leave every bike I own as standard as possible these days. I think the Meteor could probably use softer rear springs though, so a shock upgrade like Corrado's might be on the cards.
I'm struggling to think of anything else I would like to change on the Meteor though. Once I get the new mirrors and hopefully later, some softer shocks, it will be darn near perfect for me.
Take care John 🙂
All the best,
Garry & Ruby
Thank you ER! Allow me to say that i always believe that for bikes like the Meteor upgrades dont worrh it. I prefer staying with the original parts. Otherwise there is no end to it and i would go with a different bike from the beginning. But that is just me.
That’s pretty much how I see it too !
The only thing my Meteor really needed was luggage but even sorting that out took me a while. The beauty of the Meteor and the Classic is that they are gorgeous and eminently usable bikes from the factory. There really are no mods you absolutely must make, I totally agree !
Also, having modded everything on my old Bullet 500 I am tired of the whole thing. I spent more time trying to make that bike decent than I ever did riding it !
Cheers spyridon1971 👍
ER
@@economicalrides Just read these comments and agree with what you both say. RE got it right at the design stage and into manufacturing. There are plenty of other machines available which might suit better without changing things.
These modding accessories bump the original cost up to the prices of other manufacturers bikes.
Keep it Economical Riding! 😊
@@Lanes-Explorer5733 Absolutely and the Bullet experience cured me. Now I just ride my bikes rather than thinking about what to improve next. I find it liberating not having to fixate on “the next mod”. I had the panniers lying here for a couple of months before I first attempted to fit them 😂
I’m definitely not a modder but do enjoy seeing what others have done through Other Bods’ Mods. Other people’s mods can be a source of inspiration, so no harm in seeing what others have done to their bikes.
Cheers LE
ER & Ruby 👍
The best stock shocks I’ve had were on my Honda 750 Aero. At the lowest setting they were actually soft. And when cranked up were actually stiff. The problem with most other shocks is that they have no range.
Hi,
well, I subsequently discovered that the OEM shocks on the Meteor are much better than I thought to begin with. They seem to have a problem when there is no preload on the spring ( the factory setting ! ). In that situation it seems as though the damper sticks, which then stops the spring from compressing or moving at all.
As soon as you add one click of preload to the spring, the whole setup starts moving as intended. When I use a rear facing camera I can see the spring and damper working away as you would expect. With the factory setting of no preload the rear was basically solid 🤷♂
So although the range of the short spring might not be the greatest, the main problem with these units seems to be that the damper will lock out the suspension if there is no preload working upon it.
Thanks for your input 🙂
Now that they are actually working as intended, I am happy enough with the OEM units and won't be replacing them until they have worn out. Then there are definitely better options available.
Cheers,
Garry.
I fitted Hagons to an 865 Bonneville and they improved significantly with mileage. As others have said, if you phone Hagon, they will ask your weight and riding style then tailor them to your needs at no extra cost. I fitted Hagon fork springs at the same time as the front affects the performance at the rear. That Bonnie was incredibly comfortable and handled like a sportsbike when I sold it 15000 miles later. Better bang for buck than any engine upgrade.
Good to hear Paul, I will let Glynn know that they should soften up with mileage, he just needs to ride more 😛
Glynn ordered the Hagons on the phone and they did set them for his weight etc as you described. It’s just that they do not feel much plusher than the OEM shocks at the moment.
I will get him to put some more miles on them and report back Paul.
Thanks for your input.
I know that Hagons are supposed to be very good, just maybe not the most “economical” 😝way to improve the ride comfort of the Meteor, as things stand.
Cheers Paul 👍
ER.
I had the same problem with the hagon shocks which were made for my weight, I gave it a 100 miles to see if they got softer but no improvement, I sent them back to hagon and they fitted even softer springs, much better now although I don't think the Meteor will ever give a plush ride.
@@jamesbarrie2458 Thanks for that James, that’s great first hand feedback. Maybe when Hagon hear “Meteor” they grab a certain spring out of the warehouse but maybe they need to go one softer for this particular model, as in your case. I could well imagine that Hagon are being too conservative on Meteor springs, not realising that they need to go a bit softer for this particular bike.
Maybe I should have a word with them myself 🤔
I will let Glynn know, maybe he can get softer springs fitted to his Hagons too !
Thanks for that, it’s really good to know that Glynn isn’t the only one thinking that the standard Hagon spring is not adding softness to the ride 👍
Cheers James, it’s great when the ER community try to help each other out 🥃
ER
I should mention that hagon did not charge anything for the second spring change, I just had to pay shipping to send them back. They are a very good company who want to get it right. I should also point out that roads in my area are pretty bumpy so I am probably asking a lot of the Meteor.
@@jamesbarrie2458 That's great James.
I would have expected no less from Hagon, such a great company with great customer service.
With a relatively short spring and the top shock mount being almost directly under the base of your spine, I don't think the Meteor can ever give a plush ride but an improvement over the standard ride would definitely be welcome for most owners.
I have informed Glynn that you had softer springs fitted by Hagon and maybe he will get in touch with them himself now.
Thanks James, really helpful information 👍🏻
ER
Good info ER. I was looking at a set with gold reservoirs, but ordered a touring seat and a set of handlebar risers.May get the shocks over winter...
Sounds good Lance. Let us know if you get some different shocks and if they improve the ride for you. It’s great to have options 👍
Good luck with your other mods too !
Cheers Lance and love to Leo 🐕
ER
@@economicalrides Thanks, will do. Some people are not in favor of mods. The way I see it, is as long as you keep the original parts, the bike can be restored to original. Just stay away from the cutting torch...
@@lancerbiker5263 😂😂😂
Very true ! I dread to think how much damage I could do with a cutting torch Lance 😱 I’m dangerous enough with a screwdriver 😊😇
Cheers Lance 🍺
ER
@@economicalrides 😆
Good one ER, the stock shocks are shocking. Shame there isnt something on the market that sorts it out 100% The Super Meteor has the same problem.
Hi Exmouth 👋
To be fair it’s a common problem with cruisers in general. The small rear wheel means that there is less room for a longer shock, which would allow more travel, more travel would enable them to use a softer spring. If you have to fit a short shock, you will have to fit a heavy spring to try to prevent bottoming out ( because you don’t have the travel ). I suppose cruiser riders are used to it because a twin shock setup is still an improvement on the old hardtails they used to ride 😂
A dual shock setup on a cruiser is always going to be tricky to make plush. You need to come up with a different solution if you want a decent ride. Hence why many Japanese cruisers have weird monoshock setups, which work well but don’t look “right”.
It’s all a compromise but a dual shock cruiser is always going to be better off AVOIDING the potholes, wherever possible 🙂
I think I will give this shock upgrade a go on Buddy, I just hate having to deal with Spanish customs and the Endurance shocks ( incidentally Endurance make the forks and shocks for the new Triumph 400s, presumably because Bajaj uses Endurance suspension ) are only available from India. But it does seem to be a worthwhile upgrade, particularly in the UK where the road surfaces are particularly shite !
Have a great weekend. It’s very hot and muggy here in France today ! 😓
On days like this, your Exmouth is very appealing 🥰
Cheers matey 🍺
El Outro
Hi ER. The Indian shocks sounds like a good value solution, but the Hagon Shocks can be tailored to your personal weight and requirements. Don't know the difference in costs but the 1st example may have missed and opportunity.
Will be watching for updates.
Hi Tim,
no, Hagon did ask for Glynn’s weight and set the shocks up accordingly. I’m pretty sure that he then started softening them up once fitted but still didn’t notice much of an improvement.
If the spring Hagon use isn’t considerably softer than the standard one, it makes sense that the ride wasn’t much improved.
The spring on the Indian shocks is narrower and uses a thinner wire thickness in the spring and I imagine that is what makes them more compliant.
Difficult to know without having tried both myself but as of today I would definitely say that the Indian shocks are the better option for improving ride comfort. Corrado got the tip from some Royal Enfield forum and it seems as though quite a few people are recommending these shocks.
I’m sure that the Hagons are a much better shock but probably not better in terms of softness.
Cheers Tim 👍
ER
@@economicalrides thanks EC. Good presentation.
I have the Supernova grey was thinking to making modifications for the shocks.
Hi Wakash,
well by all accounts the “Endurance” RE shocks do soften the ride. It is mentioned on many RE forums and is becoming quite a popular Meteor mod 👍 I will almost certainly get some myself as soon as I can afford to !
Cheers Wakash,
ER
It’s possible that these new shocks, may improve once bedded in.
It’s possible that Glynn’s shocks may improve but the Indian shocks were significantly softer straight away, so definitely the ones to go for if you want a reasonably cheap improvement in ride comfort.
Cheers Mark,
ER
What does that mean? The spring shouldn’t weaken. The oil dampening should work properly after the first hour. I think people just get used to it.
Hi Garry,
Thank you for the compliments, which I appreciate very much. Very well realised video. I just hope that if you buy them and don't like them you won't ask me for a refund 😂
Cheers Garry and Ruby!
😂😂😂
No don’t worry, I’m sure they’ll be fine.
Knowing that you are happy with them is so much better than having to buy them “blind”, hoping that they’ll improve matters but not knowing, so thank you. I also hope I didn’t murder your surname too badly and apologise for not mentioning Arthur and his help in translating 🤗 I intended to but I forgot to mention it in my voiceover.
Take care Corrado and enjoy the improved ride 👍
Cheers 🍺
Garry & Ruby ( who sends much love to Arthur The Rascal ) 🐕
Hi Garry. No problem with the pronunciation of the surname. 'GN' in Italian is not easy to pronounce, it's (almost) like saying 'Spañolo', with the n of mañana.
Cheers Garry, love from Arthur to Ruby
@@corradospagnuolo614 I actually thought that initially but then erred on the side of caution and sounded the ‘g’. Like Bologna then 👍 I’ll get it right next time. Apologies to Arthur though for not mentioning his valuable contribution to the project 😛👍🐕
Thanks Corrado and Arthur,
Garry & Ruby
@@corradospagnuolo614 I actually thought that initially but then erred on the side of caution and sounded the ‘g’. Like Bologna then 👍 I’ll get it right next time. Apologies to Arthur though for not mentioning his valuable contribution to the project 😛👍🐕
Thanks Corrado and Arthur,
Garry & Ruby
@@economicalrides Will be done! 🙂
Great video. It put's me in a State of Shock. but i absorb all the knowledge. you give 😀 Cheers.
Thanks William,
the main reason for having this channel is to share experiences and information about the bikes I own, so glad to hear it !
Thank you and take care William 👍
Cheers 🍺
ER
@@economicalrides Your video title plus a song. made me do the comment. Thank's the same back to you 😀
@@WilliamAPBodie 😂😂😂
I get it now, sorry William , very tired today 🤗
Cheers buddy, I need a whisky 🥃 and then bed 🛏
But of course you absorb all I say 😉
ER
@@economicalrides I really do. but the title and the song did fit it. hope you like my little play of words 😀
William, Now that our winter seems to have arrived, I just can't wait until spring. ha, ha.
ER, I was hoping that Glynn would comment on how the taller Hagon shocks would affect his handling. I was thinking of getting a taller than standard set, so as to reduce the rake and trail a bit, thus improving turn-in. Theoretically, that should happen, as elevating the rear end should slightly decrease the rake and trail; this, in turn, should quicken turn-in a bit. Rather than getting a second bike, I thought I'd try this modification first.
Oh and BTW, because it was August, I only took my Meteor out twice on local, spirited rides on hilly terrain. Between the two rides, I rode 84.7 miles, while consuming 1.1 gallons of fuel. That equated to 84.7 miles per US gallon, which works out to 92.4 miles per Imperial gallon. I wasn't trying to get good fuel economy, but the Meteor gave it to me anyway... :)
Hi Mark,
well Glynn did get the shortest ones they do, 31cm I think, to keep the stance of the bike the same, as far as possible. Hagon do a couple of longer sizes to maybe achieve the effect that you are looking for.
The Indian shocks have a shorter spring than standard but the shock length centre of mount to centre of mount is exactly the same as the OEM shocks, so the Indian shocks definitely won’t change the stance at all, just soften the ride.
It sounds as though your Meteor is running perfectly now Mark. Nothing wrong with those economy figures. The only time my Meteor drinks significantly more is when I start to ride above 55 mph. Up to 55 mph the economy seems to always be around 100mpg Imperial for me, like you say, without even trying, just riding normally 👍
Cheers Mark and good luck with your own Meteor !
ER
Glynn here .... Marky, I haven't noticed any difference in the handling of my Meteor since fitting the Hagons. My riding is targetted at nice bendy country roads (straight roads are too boring !) and I've been smitten by how good the handling of the Meteor is from the outset ! (my previous mount was an Interceptor, which was also very good) To be honest the change to Hagons was more to do with rider comfort over our poor UK roads. Generally, I think that Royal Enfield have done a splendid job with their OEM units, but I wondered if fitting what must obviously be a better quality pair of rear suspension units would improve the already fantastic 'bike even more. Bearing in mind that I've only covered just under the total running-in mileage, the OEM units haven't suffered the ravages of time, so would still have been giving of their best. The miniscule increase in the Hagon (standard) suspension length isn't noticeable in practice (I'm vertically challenged and can still touch the ground, snigger !). I haven't done many miles on the Hagons (it's tipping it down with rain so I'm not venturing out to my 'bike garage to check how many miles covered !) but the function may improve slightly with more use (but any improvement will obviously be very gradual, so my old bones probably won't detect such an improvement ! : - )
@@nearlypastit2385 Thanks Glynn 👍
@@nearlypastit2385 thank you! While I like and enjoy my Meteor, it'd be nice to have a a bit quicker turn-in. So, what did you think of the Interceptor vs. the Meteor? What prompted the downsizing? I'm interested in the Super Meteor that makes use of the Interceptor's engine, and I've also toyed with getting an Interceptor. Since you've had both, it would be interesting to hear your thoughts on both bikes.
@@markymarknj Marky, I really liked my Interceptor. I've owned a couple of Bonnevilles in the past, and, for me, I found the interceptor to have a bit more character (especially over the T100 I had which I found a bit clinical) albeit the Inter obviously has less overall power. My riding is purely for pleasure, swinging down country lanes in Hampshire at moderate 40 - 50 mph (I still have the very last couple of hundred miles of running-in to complete). The Interceptor had sufficient power (in a modest sense) to do sneaky overtakes of cars on the intermittent straights, so I didn't have my fun spoiled by slowing cars on the upcoming bends. Whilst overtaking a line of several closely spaced cars not long back (perhaps a teeny-weeny bit over the speed limit and if it was it was purely to get back to my side of the single lane carriageway asap. Honestly officer) I considered during the overtake that if a mid-placed car from the line pulled out to do an overtake without the driver doing a mirror check, I would be toast. I have old bones (I'm in my mid 70's) and should I damage my personal chassis (bones) any damage may never repair completely. I also live on my own so there would be huge day to day problems. I investigated the Meteor (and the 350 Classic) as alternative machines so that I might continue my 'biking pleasure, but not have the temptation of pushing-the-limit overtakes (it was like me having 'goodies' in the cupboard at home where my self control gets up and goes. I'm ok in the shop but, but if I do weaken, once the goody is available indoors it will have a very short life. My use of the twist-grip suffered the same lack of discipline I'm ashamed to say (albeit I do otherwise try and ride defensively). My change to the Meteor was done with some reticence I must say ... would I be satisfied with the lack of top-end speed ? (I should also point out that I've had a bad habit, both now and in my youth, of not keeping a 'bike for very long before I find a spurious reason to change) I found the character of the Meteor suited me down to the ground perfectly. That single single engine pulsating away underneath me, the confidence inspiring roadholding (relative to my type of riding, obviously) , and the Meteor is the most comfortable 'bike I have ever ridden. I'm not at all sorry I changed, but I wouldn't 'dis' the Inter at all (it seems common knowledge that the Inter seat isn't very comfortable after about an hour's ride, but my Triumphs were the same. I adopted a trick I found on-line of wearing padded cycling shorts for longer rides. (Not just those I might stress !!!). I had fitted the R/E touring seat as well. For me, I find the character of the Meteor's engine is a massive part of it's charm. I'm not sure I would be so enamoured with the Super Meteor (purely a personal observation. Each to their own of course). I hope I've given you a useful steer. Sorry you've had to read a novel in the process. :-)
Hi, After watching your video I approached Royal Enfield service center for replacement of rear shocks to nitrox. They replied to me that if I replace it, I will lose the warranty. I have a doubt that the service center is misleading me. Can you please clarify me about this?
Hi there.
Well I think that may well be true. Usually in a manufacturer's warranty the fitting of non factory parts can invalidate certain parts of the warranty. It all depends upon the exact wording of the warranty agreement. I believe there is a transcript of the warranty agreement in the User Manual (?). Certainly when I bought my Meteor there was.
See if you can find clarification there.
Have you tried adding two clicks of preload to the factory shocks ? It makes a massive difference !
Since doing that, I am happy enough with the ride on the factory suspension. It is much improved. With zero preload the damper seems to stick and stop the spring from moving. Adding preload prevents that from happening and you suddenly notice that you have rear suspension that actually moves up and down ! If you haven't tried it yet, do give it a try. Maybe you can save yourself the hassle of an upgrade, like I did.
Cheers Blackboard,
Garry
beautifully explained
Thank you my friend. Very kind of you to say so and I hope you found the video useful 🙂
Take care, stay safe 👍🏻
ER
Even being a fat 18st Meteor owner I can't say I've found any issues with the stock shocks. They didn't feel great at first but then I adjusted the preload about half way and they felt twice as good straight away. Tbh they haven't even crossed my mind until this vid. If you get new shocks it'd definitely be interesting to hear how you get on.
Ok Wayne, I will definitely do a video on them once I have them. Actually, in this case, your weight may be working to your advantage !
In general the standard spring is too stiff IMO. So for lighter riders there is very little give initially. The softest part of the spring is simply too stiff for many of us 🙂
Whilst saving for the shocks I think I might just take out all of the preload and see if that improves matters. I think not, simply because the spring itself is too stiff.
Cheers Wayne 👍
ER
@@economicalrides - "weight working to your advantage", that makes sense. Maybe as a shock upgrade RE could sell a 10st test dummy to ride pillion 🤣
@@MentatOfDune 10st sounds about right Wayne 👍😂😂😂
Looking at getting some YSS sorted
If you could let me know how you get on Paul, that would be very helpful. Plenty of options out there but it would be great to find the best one !
If you could share your experience with the community here that would be greatly appreciated 👍
Thanks Paul and good luck 🤞
ER
I'm from Brazil and I've been using the Classic 500 shocks on my Meteor for about 6 months and I can say that the improvement was around 40-60% in comfort. However, I still haven't found a solution for the front suspension, as they remain rigid and with low impact absorption. If you have any suggestions like please help me.
Hi Max,
yes, it seems as though the Classic 500 shocks give a decent improvement to the ride comfort of the Meteor, I haven't heard of a better option yet !
I haven't heard of anybody changing the springs in the front forks unfortunately, so can't recommend any upgrades for those.
Most of us just wanted the bike to be softer at the rear to relieve the back pain that a bumpy surface can cause. The forks may be stiff but at least they don't send the jolt into your spine like the rear spring/damper units do !
Thanks for your feedback. If you want to soften the forks, I would talk to a suspension specialist in your country and see what it would cost to change the springs for something softer. I think the fork legs are a fairly standard diameter, so it should be possible to get some different springs in there.
Maybe go with progressive springs. Soft at the beginning of the stroke and stiffer as the forks compress. RE probably already have progressive springs in there but maybe the soft part of the spring needs to be even softer.
Good luck. At least you've managed to improve the rear end, which is the part most of us were complaining about !
Cheers Max
ER
@@economicalrides Thanks for indication. At the moment I am initially considering trying another fork oil with a more appropriate viscosity. I checked that according to the service manual, the oil used is classified as 2w25. Although manufacturers occasionally disagree about these numbers, especially for our country, this viscosity is not adequate. I'm still investigating this further.
BTW, thanks for a lot!🙂
Very informative 😊
Thanks TAYM 👍
Since I don’t like doing mods, I’m always grateful when others do them for me 🙂
At least there is an option out there which seems to be a step in the right direction.
Cheers TAYM,
ER
@@economicalrides I like bikes as they come too😊
Can you confirm for meteor 350 which shockabsorb is preferable
This video already answers that question.
Currently the RE Endurance shocks for the old Classic 350 are the cheapest and most effective option, giving 50-60% improvement in ride comfort.
Just swap the bushes and they are an easy swap.
Cheers
ER
Thanks man can I go for interceptor 650 suspension
@@bhoirkaran08 Hi Karan,
unfortunately I don't know the answer to that question. I suspect not, based purely on the fact that Hitchcock's seems to sell separate shocks for both models and on each item they explicitly say, Interceptor YES, Meteor NO or Meteor YES and Interceptor NO.
I would suggest you do a Google search. I just did a quick one and didn't come up with an answer.
But by all accounts, the shocks from the previous generation Classic are a decent improvement, as I mention in this video. you just need to swap out the bushings and they will fit.
So that would be the RE shocks marked with ENDURANCE. I think they are probably a decent, inexpensive option. I would get some myself if shipping things in from India wasn't such a pain here in Spain !
Cheers Karan,
ER.
What do Royal Enfield recommend ? Seems strange that they haven’t addressed the problem … 😟
Hi,
in a later video I found out that adding two or three clicks of preload gets the rear suspension moving properly. It's much better now.
The Endurance gas filled shocks still seem to be the best value for money upgrade but since adding preload I am happy enough with the OEM shocks.
I think RE are using very stiff springs because many people in India ride with a pillion passenger.
If you are a light solo rider, there is not enough weight on the first part of the spring to make it move.
By adding preload it moves the unit onto a softer part of the spring as its starting position ( they are progressive springs ) and then you do get much more suspension movement and the ride becomes much better.
I will be sticking with the OEM shocks until they wear out because I don't find them too bad at all now.
Hope this helps !
ER.
really interesting video, I have the endurance shocks on my 500 now, they are not particularly comfortable or soft over a good bump, the ride on the tranny is much better, it just sides right in but the bullet is much firmer and its much harder to the point my backside aches after a while. surprisingly the tranny does it better but I'm only on 700 miles on the bullet so it will probably get softer over time but then it might be more comfortable too as I don't ride it as hard as the tranny as it's just not as big machine, looking forward to your experiences and how it performs for you😁🖖🏼 hopefully it will be a goer after a swap and be a quickie to do
Thanks Quinn.
That just confirms to me that the standard Meteor shocks must be WAY too stiff 😂
It will be a while but eventually I hope to try the “Endurance” shocks myself 👍
Cheers buddy 🍦🍦🍦
ER
Very interesting ER I was thinking that you had bought some new mirrors 😃 what a plonker 🤣🤣👍
Haha, no, still waiting to hear from the stealer on that one. They have the photos and information, hopefully I will hear something this week !
Cheers AR 🥃
ER
@@economicalrides 🥃🥃cheers ER 👍
Evening ER 👍
Evening AR 😇
do you know if the Hagons were purchased direct after a phone call to Hagon? I ask because I'm told if you call Hagon, they will discuss your weight, load and use so they can somewhat tune the shocks to you needs (I've had a great experience with another suspension company - Wilbers - where I gave all the info and they send a set of suspension that was really well matched to my needs and needed very little setup - just a little sag adjustment) Of course the setup is also critical and not everyone knows how to do that properly 🙂 I've also heard the old classic shocks are better, so a very interesting video. I'm going to wait a while before I change things on my Classic in any case
Hi Ian,
yes they were purchased by phone and Hagon built and set the shocks to Glynn’s weight. I just think the spring they are using is still too strong, like the OEM one.
So are you thinking of better shocks for the Classic to improve handling and suspension control ? Because the ride on the Classic is way plusher than on the Meteor, I’m very happy with the ride comfort on the OEM shocks on my Classic. Just curious.
Cheers Ian,
ER
Ian, Yes I ordered direct with Hagon, and had a pleasant phone-chat with a very nice man when placing my order. : - )
@@economicalrides good point about the hagons, I had a similar experience, but they eventually got more compliant, or I got used to them! As for the Classic, I'm pretty happy with it but recognise I may want an even better ride in future 😀
@@iancatlin5985 Hi Ian,
Paul Stredwick in another comment here says that the Hagons on his Triumph softened a fair bit over time, so similar to your Wilbers.
I have informed Glynn of this and he will let me know if his Hagons soften up significantly.
The Indian shocks definitely seem to be softer right away and of course only cost half as much as the Hagons.
With the Classic I feel no need to change things but the Meteor rear end could definitely do with being a bit softer, just to protect your spine over bumps !
Cheers Ian 👍
ER
@@economicalrides the Wilbers were right out of the box (and they auto adjust anyway)
Stop calling them shocks or shock absorbers, the proper terminology, they are dampers, the springs absorb the shocks.
Thanks for that ❤️❤️❤️👍Actually it’s a spring/damper unit so you were also incorrect 😂
cyclesmart3130 is just "too sexy even for himself!" bwahahaha 🤣