The Mad King's Secret Plan
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- Опубліковано 14 вер 2023
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Aerys. The living embodiment of just because you are paranoid doesn't mean they are not out to get you.
Dude that's why he was paranoid! Of course his shit behavior caused everyone to come after him
I got a theory that the mad king wasn’t really that mad until the end (post-Duskendale) and that it was really Tywin, Pycelle, (and perhaps even Joanna) pushing an insecure, neurotic, and co-dependent man to his breaking point.
more info plsss!!!
I believe it was said somewhere that he had the makings of a Jaehaerys I before the events of Duskendale
I think blood raven fucked him up too. In the show, the look on blood ravens face when Bran started to "interact" with the past (like Ned hearing him in the tower of joy). He can obviously interact with the past - Just look at hodor!
I think blood raven tried to get Aries to go north through visions/dreams and fight the undead. He tried to tell Aries how to kill them, by burning them. Aries misinterpreted this and/or it drove him truly mad.
@@NipplesMageeI think that was viserys the 2 but aryes had some potential
Varys more than anyone. Barristan Selmy says in one of the books that "the rot in Aerys's reign began with Varys", and Selmy would know as he had a front-row seat to Aerys's descent into madness. Although that begs the question why Barristan would trust Varys and work for him later, when he no reason to trust him...
I think that there’s also a chance that he interpreted “the dragons will be reborn” as his lost family members being reborn since the Targaryens believed they were the dragons. His madness could have led him to believe that he would be bringing back the people he lost at Summerhall, which makes it even sadder.
I mean... Dany literally survives being incinerated during the process of her dragons hatching. That has to count for something
I like the fan theory that Aerys' paranoia may have been justified since there seemed to be a grand alliance being formed. The Starks, Lannisters, Tullys, and Baratheons could have been marrying into each others families and would have made a powerful block against the Aerys
On top of that Rhaegar was working on his own coup
plus Varys probably floated his own rumors and hyped up his own image as a spy master - I'm of the belief that Varys was actively trying to get the Whispers role, and it wasn't a happenstance that Aerys was paranoid and heard of this whisperer who just happened to maybe probably be a blackfyre
@@samuelchallis3420 I see it as the same coup. Rhaegar invited them all to Harenhal. Aerys hadn't left the Red Keep in years (bc of his misadventures at Duskendale), so Rhaegar did not expect him to show. Which is one reason he did - he feared them all plotting against him. And that's actually where the real plotting began picking up steam.
Someone at that level is right to have paranoia. The trick is to figure out what is paranoia and what is legit concerns.
That doesn't mean the wasn't mad. He was. Whether he believed he'd turn into a dragon or not is rather irrelevant at that point. I see it like he'd gone completely off the deep end by that point and knew he was buggered, so might as well bugger the realm on the 1% chance he'd turn into a dragon. He probably saw it as one percent. Maybe his delusions made him think it was 10%. Be it ten or one, or (more accurately) 0.0001% it's better than the certainty he had he was right buggered when the invading army reached the Red Keep. If he had loyal KG and men at arms, they could hold out for weeks, months even. But he had not such faith in anyone, and rightly so.
Who would willingly sacrifice their life for such a low cost?
It's why IMO Ned - The Ned - is a much better player of the game than most give him credit for. Dead and buried (or rotting) and still the North fight on. Thousands of tough, resilient, deadly Northmen seek their glorious deaths at the hands of a much greater Bolton force. But they do this happily, as long as they get to take a few of those skin flayers - and their cousin-fucking twin friends - with them to whatever the trees and streams consider hell.
And Arryns !
That's exactly what was happening
I agree-I always got the feeling that most of the Targs were having the same vision/dream bits and were confusing it.
My interpretation has been that Aerys saw dragon dreams of Dany's eggs hatching, and interpreted them as being about himself. I think there's a good chance Egg did as well.
this is acc so smart, I would love it to be true!
I believe that the Mad King was right. If Jaime hadn’t killed him, I think that the ceremony he’d put together, three dead kings (himself, Aegon, Rhaenys), a pyromancer, dragon eggs (assuming he had some in the castle) and a city-sized funeral pyre would have woken dragons from stone that day.
Possibly. Maybe even probably. But unless the dragons hatched somehow weren't killed as hatchlings, and somehow got to the last two Targaryens in exile, it changes nothing other than giving the Westerosi a recent to hunt down any dragon eggs they can find.
Nah he cray cray
I think that if i wash my butthole ill die
@@danielallen4450 If Robert Baratheon arrived to the ashes of King's Landing and found three baby dragons in the rubble of the Red Keep, I am 100% sure he would keep them rather than kill them, and they would be tremendous symbols of legitimacy for his kingship.
Then, of course, all of the conspiracies against Robert take a VERY different tone if he and his brothers are dragonriders.
@@Charles-In-Charge Hahahahaha fuck now I'm just imagining Aerys sacrificing all that thinking he'll be reborn as a Dragon or hatch Dragons for Vicerys only for Bobby B to stride in and tame them for himself.
Yes, we are missing something very very important.
At Duskendale Aerys was show that a prophecy from Old Valyria was true and was about him specifically. Aerys then spends the rest of his life trying to prevent or preempt the prophecy. Like all prophecies in fiction they come true and they come true BECAUSE the object of the prophecy tries to prevent it.
The Three prophecies are
The Doom of Valyria (has already happened)
A Game of Thrones (Or The Golden Betrayal)
A Song of Ice and Fire
We do not know and I don't think we will ever know the full details of the prophecy but we certainly know some elements.
Aerys bans all servants from coming near him with blades, and doesn't shave Howard Hughs style, he ultimately is killed by a Servant with a Blade.
The old valyrian houses refused to set foot on westeros and the Targaryens settled on Dragonstone, which isn't westeros itself, until later. The prophecy predicts the fall of the Valyrian house to settle in westeros.
The old valyrian houses refused Lannister gold for valyrian sword, but were happy to accept Stark silver, the prophecy refers to westerosi gold and how merely posessing it result in the fall of whoever posesses that gold.
Finally the tourney and harrenhall is in the prophecy and the actions of a specific knight is described and is relevant to the fall. This is why Aerys shows up, not because Varys warns him. This is why Aerys knights Jamie and bans him from participating, to prevent Jamie and house Lannister from causing he revolt. This is why he gets furious when he is told about the knight of the laughing tree and declares that this knight is his enemy.
Finally Dragons were reborn from Khal Drogo's funeral pyre after Danerys walked into it.
Aerys either wasn't mad or he was driven to madness by this prophecy that told that he would be betrayed, murdered and overthrown. Just like Cersei was driven mad by her own 'maggie the frog' prophecy.
Cool analysis
His plan was pretty lit if you ask me🔥🔥🔥
You warmed by heart(h) with this comment
DIE LIT!
😂
That was my hot take too. ^^
I like the irony of how ultimately it wasnt Aerys who caused the rebelion, but his oh-so-perfect son Raegar.
Pretty sure that a huge part of the rebellion starting was Aerys' horrific executions of Brandon and Rickard Stark. There was still a good chance of things being settled peacefully, at least without a full blown rebellion, until he did that
It was Aerys though. Rheagar disappearing along with Lyanna for as yet unconfirmed reasons or consent was pretty stupid, but the King could have resolved that.
Berate Brandon Stark for his stupid comments, maybe send him to the Wall along with Rheagar, apologize for the Prince’s action and while relationships would have been damaged there would not have been grounds for war.
Extrajudicially executing the Warden of the North, his Heir, the Heir of the Warden of the East, along with a number of other important Lords and Heirs (those from Brandon’s party). Worse: doing so in a mockery of a God-mandated Trial?
That was unforgivable
@@tomvanhoof3901 And if he hadn't demanded the heads of Ned and Robert right after. That's what pushed Jon Arryn to call his banners and officially start the war.
Nope Jon Arryn caused it. Arryn knew Rhaegar & Lyanna were consensual lovers. The entire court and King's guard knew. He also immediately had Robert and Ned chill out in the Vale, although they would have been as safe or safer in their own lands. He also started the Rebellion. He f'd up by letting his nephew, Brandon and Rickon think Lyanna was kidnapped or more likely he assumed they knew better and just didn't say anything. 🤦♀️
He could only rope in the Baratheons and aka Robert if he lied about Lyanna being kidnapped and raped to Ned & Co. And Robert & Co.
If he told them, "yeah Lyanna and Rhaegar are either already or are going to get married and love each other. Plus King Aerys killed Elbert, Rickard, and Brandon for not listening and being judgemental and trying to start shit" then things would have played out differently.
So Arryn betrayed the Starks and got Rickard & Brandon Stark killed so later dumb dumb Ned would believe his mentor, Jon, and betray his last living family, Lyanna. (Yeah you gotta stay in the Veil, then we gotta go to war and um yeah yeah "save" your sister.)
Unfortunately, Benjen who was not an idiot peaced out to the night's watch when he saw his idiot sister starting stuff with trouble aka Rhaegar instead of slapping sense into Lyanna and remaining Starks. (Also Benjen had other reasons for dipping.)
(Wonder why in the 1994 draft Arryn was at the Tower of Joy and not in the books? Yeah Arryn would have killed Lyanna and any offspring as he was done with the Targaryens.)
Arryn didn't have the manpower to claim the thrown via conquest nor did he have a blood claim but by exploitation of his wards he could become Hand of the King.
Poor dumb Robert (already mad at Rhaegar since Harrenhall) would rather believe Lyanna was kidnapped and raped then that any woman would ever turn him down to the point he helped lead a civil war.
So why was Arryn anti Rhaegar?
Well, Aerys executed his nephew which was a big deal because his nephew was his heir at this point. 🤦♀️ Seems like he wanted an eye for an eye or a son for a quasi son from Aerys. (Though he had blame for not stopping everyone.) Also, a grieving man might question why Rhaegar didn't help Elbert, since Lyanna wasn't abducted. Likely he was mad at Lyanna too.
Arryn prolly distrusted Rhaegar due to Aerys actions. Arryn may also have had a slight grudge that his ward, Robert Baratheon was disrespected at Harrenhall by Rhaegar...more likely he felt like Rhaegar would be a lech and a tyrant like Aerys because Rhaegar was already married. (Bad impression for Rhaegar.)
Arryn and Elbert made assumptions about Rhaegar that blew up in their faces.
Another fun point! Jon Arryn was a bit of a religious zealot for the Faith of the Seven who historically shat on all Targaryens and their customs.
Robert Baratheon calls all Targaryens evil dragon scum and thinks they deserve to die. Arryn agrees and rewards Tywin for the deaths of the Targaryen children! Arryn would have loved his Rebellion even if Elbert hadn't been killed by Aerys.
@@tomvanhoof3901bruh Brandon accused the crown prince of kidnapping and rape of a noble woman without proof-demanding Rhaegar be put to death (which wasn't even a legal option for rapists.)
Then Aerys imprisoned him for a while. Doofus-I mean, Brandon Stark refused to change his attitude and kept claiming treason!
Even if Rhaegar had kidnapped and raped, unmarried Lyanna he was probably within his legal rights as a prince. The first night right was banned but not necessarily taking a paramour even if unwilling. (Messed up but legal.)
So Doofus keeps insisting on killing the prince aka treason while imprisoned. Rickard does nothing until Aerys demands Rickard agrees to ransom him.
So does Rickard denounce his son and his claims? Nope. He too, doubles down and makes the same treasonous claims.
Rickard demands trial by combat which Aerys chooses to agree to with f'd up terms.
For the fun of it, Aerys gives Brandon a one in a million chance to save Rickard.
Being the mental giant he is Doofus slowly strangles himself to death as his father roasts alive.
While Aerys is sadistic, he's legally justified here.
Brandon and Rickard are just dumb.
1) Apologize and then strategize don't antagonize the freaking bat shit crazy king and then compromise
2)If something is out of reach you can use things like an object , for example clothing items to drag it to you. Or ya know, slowly autoerotic asphyxiate yourself to death whatever
3) Why didn't they go straight to Dorne and ask the locals for help?
4)Why didn't they go to Kings landing with an army?
I'd say hindsight is 20/20 but it's obvious this was insanely stupid
Anywho, the technically not executions but deaths of Rickard and Brandon were horrific but legally justified and easily avoidable so aside for the Starks I can't picture a lot of Lords getting that upset about those particular deaths so much as Aerys being unhinged and violent in general
My thinking is, that after the dragons died out, every Targaryen King came sooner or later to the realisation, that without the dragons, House Targaryen no longer really had the power to hold the seven Kingdoms under their rule. They no longer had their absolute trump card available and had to play political games pitting the great houses against one another and make a lot of compromises, just to hold on to the throne. No wonder they all wished to bring the dragons back and were willing to go to great length and sacrifice to do it. In Aerys II. case add a several events in his reign that proved to him how powerless the Targaryens had become and the recurring dream that seem to promise that he could bring the dragons back, and no wonder he did what he did.
Also Aerys might have figured that wildfire was as good or better than a dragon
The TV show heavily implies that Bran as the Three-Eyed Crow inadvertently planted the idea "burn them all" in King Aerys's head. In which case the whole of ASOIAF is a time paradox.
We’ll see what the books do. We do know that the “Hold the door!” thing was one of Martin’s currently-unpublished ideas that D&D used, so there’s some time travel stuff there.
As much as I love time paradoxes in fiction, I would really prefer if ASOIAF didn’t dip into that device, but we’ll have to wait and see I suppose.
There are a bunch of little quirky things in the books that can be pretty readily explained by either bran or bloodraven attempting to mess with how people act via time-dispalced consciousness skinchanging.
same here...thats what i saw
It could just as much be interpreted that the previous Three-Eyed Crow (who I guess isnt Bloodraven in the show) did the same thing Bran did to Hodor, given that he warned Bran of the risks
I always wondered if Bran fried his brains like he did with Hoder
Robert I love your voice! I feel like a little kid listening by a fire! Thx again for another excellent video
😊😊
Pycelles's plan to poison Aerys with basilisk's blood unintentionally produced cra cra dragon dreams.
I never considered Aerys in the context of his family of dreamers and prophecy believers. Maybe because his beliefs are never highlighted. But such things can manifest in different ways. For example, Rhaegar wasn't mad or cruel but he was fixated on the 3 heads of the dragon and PtwP to the point of careless disregard of everything else. And recently started to believe that he dreamt of Dany, and since neither Rhaenys nor Aegon matched his vision, he concluded that he must have a 3rd child, a daughter, to match 3 dragon shadows... Aerys was seemingly OK for many years until he started to grow paranoid of Tywin's influence and ambition. And he wasn't completely wrong, was he? It was whispered that Tywin ruled the Seven Kingoms, not Aerys. I imagine there was some similar dynamic to Robert and Jon Arryn. With the only difference that Robert loved Jon like a father and had zero ambitions to feel offended should similar rumours reached him. And how on earth Aerys had no obvious bastards? Then there came baby loses, a lot of them, which made him more paranoid and suspicious. And then the disaster of Duskendele. No one will ever know what torture or black magic was used against him. Maybe something happened there to force apocalyptic dragon dreams on him. Dreams of the Others, and dragons and fire. And then he was experimenting with wildfire. In the absence of dragons, and the weakness in Targaryens that was exposed by the king being held captive for 6 months, wildfire was the closest weapon to dragon fire there was. Maybe he also tried to use it as some fertility aid, trying to hatch more metaphorical dragons and developing the Pavlov effect (to put it less crudely). My dog is scared of big dogs and will growl at them from across the road, to kind of scare them off preemptively. Aerys reminds me of that kind of behaviour a little. His green dragon fire was meant to put fear in the bigger "animals", but that only fueled discontent and plots, that made Aerys more afraid and aggressive and so on. And there were plots around him. Varys, Rhaegar, maybe Pycelle and the Cytadel. It all spiralled, until that day of Reconing. With nothing to lose, Aerys decided on the greatest funeral pyre ever, with tens of thousands to act as unwitting blood sacrifice. One last hurrah. I am not opposed to calling him Mad, for madness overtook him in the end. But he didn't start as a predisposed to cruelty boy like Ramsey or Joffrey, but climed the mad stairs slowly with every plot, betrayal, exposed weakness. All that said, I do not feel sorry for Aerys and he should've been reined in much sooner. I wouldn't mind a discussion on why Rhaegar didn't act sooner and why, when he did make a move, he had abandoned his plots to holiday in Dorne with Lyanna and the boys.
While Robert’s and Jon Arryn’s dynamic where similar, the difference is like you said that:
1- Robert loved Jon as a father;
2- Robert didn’t care about the burocratic stuff;
3- We can also believe that he didn’t care too much about his legacy, I don’t remember in the books, but in the series he “invites” Ned to be his hand and “rule his kingdom, while he whore’s his way to an early grave”.
Again implying that he really don’t have the fragile and egotistical vision about his kingship like Aerys. Robert was powerful and overconfident in excess, so his rule ended because of these reasons, ironically the opposite of Aerys, but the excess had the same result.
The contrast between Robert and Aerys is even more clear as we compare how he dealt with the Lannisters. The mad King ostracized the Lions and made then possible enemies, while Robert allowed then to occupy key positions and strengthening their position and also making them his enemies from inside.
George indeed wrote them this way to show us that the excess is a path to self-destruction, as this theme is all over ASofIaF:
Ned’s decision to do the honorable thing and overconfidence when confronting Cersei;
Theon attack on Winterfell;
Cersei scheming and decisions, culminating with her imprisonment (and maybe the sept baellor explosion);
Tywin hipocrisy and persecution of Tyrion, also Tywin obsession with “make the lannisters great again” , that probably culminates with his house destroyed or maybe in the hands of Tyrion (which I think is something that Tywin would dislike even more than the end of his house):
And so on…
I kinda think Rhaegar's plots weren't abandoned but destroyed like Duskendale and Harrenhall.
It's pretty obvious he took Lyanna to Dorne when she was pregnant enough to start showing to prevent her being married off to someone else or being forced to drink moon tea.
There's also a tinfoil hat theory that Bran tried to warn Aerys of the Others and how to defeat them (= by burning them) but instead it gave him the idea to burn everything down.
Basically the kind of thing what Bran did to Hodor.
There’s a similar theory regarding blood Raven trying to contact Aerys for the same reasons, But when Aerys saw The Others and the wights it was too overwhelming and his mind snapped in despair.
People theorize that this also happened to Euron, but instead of despair, he decided that world ending monsters and endless darkness sounded fun.
That is a tinfoil hat theory? To me the TV showed exactly that Bran made the king go mad.
@@hicknopunk No, it definitely wasn't shown exactly that Bran made the Mad King go mad.
@@metsgiantsfan333 weird...it seemed brans visiting of anyone over and over again drove them mad. You think the king is different? Immune? I think bran drove them all mad.
@@hicknopunk Who did Bran visit and drive mad besides Hodor?
Maybe the Mad King received the visit of bran stark telli G him to burn with wildfire the dead and white walkers. As bran inside Odor's head, bran could have created a traumatic verbal disease due to his visit to him
I think it was Bran who made him mad. Some sort of “hold the door” situation with “burn them all”. In the present someone was saying burn them all, referring to the white walkers and corpses. He became obsessed with wildfire because he thought he had to fight off the white walkers and fulfill the prophecy.
Great vid IDG & HoW. Since the prophetic reveal on HotD that is apparently canonical and from GRRM , i think many of the Targs (especially monarchs) and their actions can be given much more analysis with that in mind. And i am personally convinced this prophetic knowledge was much more widely known in the text (at least in Targ circles) than HotD let on (only monarch to heir). By Egg's time all the brothers and potentially all the children of that generation knew , Bloodraven certainly knew among others before and after etc. Many suggestions at various times others besides just monarch and heir knew. But anyway i do think prophecy / dreams / visions could have very much been at play with Aerys II , not just his developed madness / insanity. In terms of looking at Targ monarchs in a new light with the prophecy reveal look at Aerys II's previously somewhat casually dismissed overambitious idea of building a second Wall for example.
This vid i do find quite convincing , def a prevalent formula of the time (used by both Aerion & Egg) ; wildfire plus sacrifice to try to yield a dragon. Aerys II very much could have had the same plan for himself. And i agree as with many prophecies in this universe quite common it was misinterpreted and was Dany's pyre they were seeing but each applied to themselves. You would think Aerys II seeing the catastrophic results with Aerion and massively more so Summerhall using wildfire in such a way might be less keen to dabble but that could be where the developed madness comes into play. Especially as we see Aerys II's use / integration of wildfire and how much he enjoys , is aroused and obsessed by it ; so actual practical thoughts and rationality with using such a dangerous substance likely went out the window with his mental decline and potential further corruption via prophecy.
So excited for another video. Excellent as always Robert.
Wonderful Robert! Always a good day when you upload your theories!
Can we do such a video in defense of Petyr Baelish? Sometimes I see hints of Him being a God's instrument for some greater plan. His ship, while he waits for Sansa, is named Merling King - one of the many faces of God of Death.
His facilitating Lysa's revenge on Jon Arryn with Tears of Lys.
I mean, he is operating almost perfectly in Story appearing or hinting towards a Supernatural support for him.
His connection with Braavos. The Hermit on Fingers prophesied of him being a Great Man eventually.
What if, Littlefinger is an unwittingly an instrument of God in the Story?
Next question - which of the many gods of ASOIAF is Littlefinger an instrument of? Considering your Merling King connection, and the results of so many of his actions and plots, I've got my suspicions.
I think if he only wanted to turn into a dragon then he would’ve just lit the red keep on fire instead of all of kingslanding.I think he did want to turn into a Dragon but just incase he didn’t he would leave a city of ash for Robert.
Another well done video. Had a similar thought myself, after hearing about someone drinking Wildfire. Also, I don't think The Mad King's madness really started to show post the events of him being held prisoner in Duskendale.
He was reasonably paranoid prior Duskendale then when Howard Hughes/Hitler after being tortured
It was the comet. That's what Aeres was missing.
I'm not sure I entirely buy this idea. First of all, the premise mostly comes from that one line of the Jaime chapter, which we can't assume to be authoritative. While I agree that Jaime is being fully open and honest as he tells Brienne his story, and that we can be fairly certain he's telling the truth about what he himself saw or thought, the line about Aerys expecting to be reborn as a dragon isn't something he directly hears Aerys say. There, Jaime is only speculating on what the true thoughts of a very mentally unstable individual *might* be. Plus, Aerys' line about "let Robert be king over charred bones and cooked meat" (which is something Jaime attests to Aerys actually saying) seems to suggest a spiteful attitude of "if I can't have it, no one can" much more than a plan through which he would defeat Robert in draconic form and save his dynasty.
Lastly, even if Aerys did have something like being reborn as a dragon in mind...that's not really any less mad than we normally view Aerys' wildfire plan. As the saying goes, there may be method to the madness, but madness it remains.
in melisandre flashbacks she remembers having to drink fire in her first ritual for the red god and nowadays she's a immortal witch, I think aerion brightflame heard about the ritual while in essos and tried to replicate but failed because he didn't made any sacrifice (the source of the ritual possibly being fire and blood) aerys would have actually succeed in it if he wasn't stopped by jaime
Even if he wanted to bring back the dragons, he knew that wildfire caches would kill most of King's Landing folks.
There is no running away from the fact that he enjoyed watching people burned.
Wonderful channel, thank you for so many quality vids
1:52 you did some nice visual work on this section of the video. The added steam is very cool and immersive!
I really love your videos. The way you break down the lore in is incredible.
i think the best insight in what happend in the mad kings head we will perhaps ever get are cerseis pov chapters. Both grow up entitelt and with quiet the big believe in their own capabilities (targaryen always believed themself closer to the gods than to their fellow men and Cersei grew up under Tywin...). But then they fail with their great plans and are seemingly overshadowed by others that should be their lessers (people called tywin the true ruler of the seven kingdoms and Cersei is removed from power when Tyrion becomes hand). They cant imagine that their failings are the results of their own short comings, so they search the fault with others- they become paranoid. Both even had their "trauma": duskenhall with the mad king, Jofreys death and the walk of shame for Cersei.
really enjoyed the editing in this video, i can tell you spent extra time on it this time around :)
Robert didn't intend to become king when he rebelled. Was someone telling Aerys that Robert was after the crown? Had he just worked out that Robert was the only one of the rebels with recent Targaryen blood? Or had he seen a crowned stag in his dreams too?
By the time of the Battle of the Trident, it seems pretty clear that Robert had declared his intent to take the throne. IDG explains in his videos about the rebellion that it makes logical sense for the various rebel lords to have discussed their objectives and endgame around that time and decided to support Robert as the new king.
@@Wolfeson28 thanks
Maybe he knew of/thought that some dragon egg(s) were hidden in Kings Landing and the easiest way to find/hatch them was to blow up the entire city with a lot of people inside. I think it’s safe to say Fire and Blood isn’t just house words. It’s the recipe for hatching dragon eggs. He saw Summerhall first hand. Maybe he thought “more people, bigger fire” would do the trick.
Could be you need a lot of blood sacrifice. Everyone's saying the sacrifices for Danerys dragons are Khal Drogo, Rhaego or whatever the heck her kid was going to be called and, Mirri Maz Duur but if you wanna get technical, prior to the funeral as a "sacrifice for Dany" Rhaella dies, Ser Willem Derry, Viserys dies, two horses die, wine seller dies, a bunch of Dothraki, and even more Lazereen get Danerys to build the funeral pyre eventually.
Can’t believe I never asked this question before. Great video!
Before season 8 shit on everything, I really liked the theory was that Bran would continue going back in time desperately telling different kings to use fire to destroy the white walkers.
This would explain why there were so many stock piles of wild fire to begin with and (like Hodor who’s mind was damaged from seeing Bran) the Mad King would’ve similarly gone mad as a result with the only thing on his mind being to Burn Them All
This drop just made my afternoon better
joe magician has a vid and lifestream about this, where ge goes into a bit more detail just what might have been seen, the consept, that big events cause "ripples in the dreamscape" which leads to everyone who is atuned, to dream of the same big event or well, have prophetic dreams at all.
Dany had a witch, a dead king and a pregnant woman (well she just had given birth but I would let it count especially since she is brithing the dragons there, in that pire, egg had probably jennys woodswitch/the ghost of high heart, a king and a pregnant woman in his pire . . . . I doubt that was a coincedance risking her and the babies life for an extreamly risky experiment
Damn. The production value of that intro!! I see you!
Nice video. The mad kind doesn't get enough love
I feel like Aerys, Rhaella, and the unborn Rhaegar were the actual intended 'sacrifice.'
I think Aegon V intended for himself and his immediate family to be the sacrifice that would birth dragons for Aerys and the unborn Rhaegar. It wasn’t accidental; he was attempting to fulfil the prophecy of his bloodline by allowing Rhaella and her unborn child to escape the inferno. In some way it worked; dragons eventually were born to this line.
You’ve probably already heard this, but your outro you mention aegon the 2nd, and you meant aerys. It wouldn’t be a big deal anywhere else in the video, but your endings are always so profound and powerful, I’d be bummed if you lost your thunder for a small mistake. Great content as always. Thank you!
Great video as always. The only thing that gives me pause is Dany’s vision in the HotD, where Aerys says “Let him [Robert] be the king of ashes”. Judging by this, it really seems like he wanted to blow King’s landing up in order to stop Robert from capturing it.
Great video.
Yet another superbly articulated thesis.
I don't think he was as mad as people think he was Aerys could not be Mad king but dragon dreamer and the closer we get to long night the more he was desperate to find a way to burn them all.
Who are they ? The others and Aerys saw probably them invading King's Landing so he told to place caskets of wildfire under whole city so all can be burned when times come.
Another great video sir thank you. Hmm maesters and septons were at Summerhall as well werent they?
thank you so much for saying where the dragons returning prophecy came from. ive been googling and trying to figure it out but can never seem to get a straight answer. i didnt know it was aerys the first, and wow how sort of ironic that aerys the seconds daughter was the one to do it
I SAY KINGSBLOOD, YOU SAY SACRIFICE!
KINGSBLOOD...
loved it!
Great video and great comment section, absolutely worth a read.
I'd like to add something on the success of Dany's dragon hatching ritual. Here things are discussed why others failed and Dany succeded, and reasons may include that Dany had the power of the comet above her, maybe three Tagaryens already died drinking wildfyre and counted as sacrifices and Dany had all the ritual needs like a dead king, a witch, blood, fire, etc.
But additionally, Dany's ritual is different from the others. It lacks intent, it lacks planning, and ultimately, it lacks control. Why?
We do not know what exactly Dany knows of Targaryen history, dragon dreamers and prophecies. Viserys probably has told her some things, but we do not know which, and maybe some things were forgotten or misunderstood by Dany because someone told her early on when she was too young to understand. It is very well possible that Dany does not know of any rituals to awake dragons - she doesn't even believe a 100% that her eggs are viable. All she does is put them into a normal fire, which seems a reasonable first thought of anyone wanting to hatch dragon eggs, given that dragons breathe fire and live in volcanoes. Dany seems to hope, but not actually believe that her eggs are viable - until the ritual, where she seems to be very sure, calm and decisive. One might argue that this innert knowledge is the Targaryen heritage.
She did not plan that ritual long term because she never thought of Drogo dying (so sudden and soon), she made it up more or less right away when Drogo died. This ritual is a funeral pyre for Drogo as well as a death punishment for Mirri, an act of respect as well as of revenge. She could have done the exact same thing even if she had never possessed any dragon eggs - burning is a death ritual for khals anyway. Hatching dragons is not the only intent of this ritual. It might also be possible that she knows details of the dragon hatching ritual (blood, dead king, fire, etc.) and just grabs the opportunity when it presents itself.
The last is Dany's act of stepping into the fire herself. She steps closer to the fire to say goodbye to Drogo and 'sees' him in the flames. Then, the dragon eggs crack, the pyre comes down around her, and the dragons exist.
To me, Dany's act is an act of trust, honesty and love:
she wholeheartedly believes, nay, knows that she will live, and that the dragons will hatch. She genuinly wants to pay her last respects to Drogo. As I said, she would still have given him a ritual if there were no eggs. It is their custom.
But moreover, it is an act of giving up control - and what more could a dragon want than a rider who does not seek to control. Dany does not *plan* to hatch eggs up until she decides to build that pyre. She does not intend to sacrifice people who are only that - a sacrifice but nothing more. The point of sacrifices in terms of magic fantasy rituals often is that they are MORE than just a sacrifice, they have to be, simply said, 'emotionally important' to the person doing the sacrificing. One might wonder whether, in ASOIAF, the sacrifices need to know that they are sacrifices, at least for the dragon ritual. Details can and should be discussed.
Because after all, dragons, as we are reminded, are not to be controlled, and therefore why should their existence in itself be controlled? Why should an uncontrollable magical beast be able to be called into existence at will if only the fire burns bright enough and a great many random people die? As Mirri reminds Dany at the start of the very chapter, blood in itself is useless. But the blood Dany sacrifices is that of a foe, that of a lover, maybe that of family (if Rhaego counts as sacrifice). Dany goes into the sacrifice driven by trust, self-assurance, determination, with her wits about her while believing in the dragons but not wanting to only use them. They are more than only a means of power to her. She is not wavering in her conviction, she is not mad with dragon-craze, neither is she filled by fear or a completely shallow lust for power.
Dany gives up control, and that is what gets her the dragons.
Something that you said stuck out to me, which was we know of three targaryens who sacrifice themselves to wildfire thinking they would be turned into a dragon. Danny has three eggs so what if the three dragons she has are the three targaryens who believe they would be turned into dragons and they were? I know there's not a lot of proof but it's something subtle and I feel like that's exactly what George would be going for and why would it all connect that way? The one that drank the wildfire probably the first dragon to die(show only). The second one that jon r bonded with. (show only) and the final one Danny's dragon (egg. Show only)
It's just something that literally came to my mind this second but I thought it was cool
thanks for the video
ayy its a good day when in deep geek uploads
1:02-1:17 - I love how you not-so-subtly call out Dan & Dave for their bullshit. 😃
The "Burn them all" thing was show only, and it aggravates me when people think it was in the books lol
i always got the theory from the tv series...that it was the original raven[or perhaps another] trying to change history , but using his connection to influience a person, to get the then mad king to concentrate on preparing fire for the uncoming battle with the undead from the north....and something went wrong...turning perhaps a unstable king mad, with a mind for fire? thus when bran is talking with the old raven, he tells him you cannot influence the past?
A Blackfyre would never want to BURN THEM ALL except for maybe Maelys
My head cannon, until proven otherwise, is Bran going back to tell the people fire was the way to destroy the Others. Then we have a "Hold the Door" situation. Repeating one phrase over and over. Or mayhaps it was Bloodraven and that's why he tells Bran to not interact with people because you can not change the past. Knowing the consequences, he could be telling Bran this to stop him from doing what he has done.
Every time I see the one and only picture of the Mad King I can’t help but think that the show runners went cheap on his wardrobe with that crown that looks melted.
Was egg boiled, fried or scrambled at summerhall?
There is also the fan theory that bran tries to protect himself back through time to warn the mad king about the white walkers and how to defeat them, which results in his wildfire obsession and his last words 'burn them all' (a bit like happened to hodor)
Hi Great to see your videos.
Always with a different angle. If he wanted to hatch a dragon do you think he had an actual dragon egg. There were eggs at Summer Hall. If he had an egg or eggs. I wonder which dragon eggs and what happened to them.
1:57 Jamie: "The mad king loved fire. 'Fire is cool. Hehe hehe' he would say. Then he would demand TP for his bunghole."
I've heard the theory (possibly on this channel?) that "burn them all" was a reference to the White Walkers/Others - the reason why they kept dreaming of fire was because it actually was a great tool for the coming war.
take this a step further and think that the people in King’s Landing were supposed to be part of a black/blood magic ritual for dragon birth
A theory just hit me. What if a giant sacrificial fire of city sized proportions created the original dragons somehow? And maybe the doom of Valyria was instigated by other Targarians trying to make even more dragons or when they made the ones they took the seven kingdoms with?
"Burn it down" -that's a hell of plan there, your Grace...
With as much as is pulled from Lovecraft it should be no surprise that in order to awaken the sleeping old gods, the stars had to be right.
Aerys would be such a haunting and sad story to see in live action.
Maybe in 20 yrs when we get another GoT prequel
Given how familiar egg was with blood raven it’s possible he didn’t think he would turn into a dragon or that rhaegar was the prince that was promised he might have seen the long view and knew clearing the way for dany to be the last surviving Targaryen (mainline Targaryen with possible exception of young griff) was the way to bring about the culmination of some prophecy
Side note: At 1:21 the actor playing Aerys looks a lit like Bill Murray in Zombieland
I think the break down of what Aerys II believed was going to happen is spot on, but that doesn’t change the fact that the man was off his rocker.
He was unkept with long wild hair and unclipped nails. His paranoia was evident in every action and it forced him to be reclusive. He was assaulting and raping his wife to the point it made his Kingsguard uncomfortable and questioning their duties. That and he executed with wildfire, the most profound such event being the straight up torture and murder of Lord Rickard Stark and his heir Brandon Stark.
Aerys II may have believed he was going to be reborn as a dragon, but the man was beyond psychotic.
I think everyone in westeros must have PTSD
It has taken me a while, but I finally figured out who you sound like. You sound very much like Paul Bettany. That is not a bad thing.
It's interesting because looking at the events that led up to Dany's eggs being born with perfect hindsight. Her dragons never would have been born were it not for Aerys and her predecessors trying to bring dragons back. All of those events led to the distrust of the targaryen and events that worked up to their betrayal. If none of those events happened, Dany wouldn't have been where she was to have hatched the dragons. It was a miraculous event all brought to fruition by the failings of her predecessors.
nice video
Most of your theories are really sound (except for the Jyanna Reed one) and I would love to hear what you think George R. R. Martin wants to do with Stoneheart and how she impacts the story.
The reason they fail to hatch dragons is it requires someone with two copies of the dragon X gene (one copy to be a rider or have dreams, two copies to hatch). It's on the sex chromosome, so only a female can be a hatcher. (Sometimes an egg put in with a baby would hatch, but it was their mother or sister that was the hatcher not the baby).
My theory regarding King Aerys' madness is that Blood Raven tried to warn him via his Greenseer abilities but ended up scarring the king's mind and driving him insane either from the sheer horror of the discovery or it could be the traumatic effect of having a particularly powerful Greenseer interfering in the past (think of Hodor) to warn King Aerys about the White Walker/Others threat. The Duskendale treason certainly didn't help, consider what Aerys' reaction to Blood Raven's influence would be - he would literally be getting visions of walking corpses invading and getting it drilled into his mind that he must burn them all to stop them (I also think the wildfire obsession is directly linked to this end). The sheer psychic and psychological impact of this manner of communication from Blood Raven towards King Aerys is very reasonably something that would drive him a bit nuts. Visions of the future are also quite easily misinterpreted, he could have totally got the wrong message and blood raven would be like o-0 "wtf".
“Aerys wasn’t trying to kill everybody in King’s Landing”
Aerys: “b u r n t h e m a l l”
I think most of the “mad” Targaryens (Maegor notwithstanding) were not truly mad, it just looks that way from the outside. I think between dragon dreams and other sources of prophecy, they were all shown visions of the return of the Long Night, and were so terrified by it that they scrambled to fulfill these prophecies out of desperation and hope that they could stop it. Less “wow they are crazy and doing illogical things expecting a result that wouldn’t make sense” and “oh, they are consumed with terror and staking their lives on the idea that they’ve interpreted their very real visions correctly.”
I think it’s also possible that Bloodraven is exactly the same, but given his mixed heritage he had a clearer vision of the prophecy even before being plugged into the Weirwood network, because he could receive visions of the same events from both dragon dreams and greensight, and cross-reference them with each other to get much nearer to the truth.
My theory: Iron Throne gives the visions of Dany stepping into fire and hatching dragons to everyone who sits on long enough but they instead believe is about themselves. Most likely Daeron the drunk sits on it next to his grandfather,Aerion etc…most likely Robert Baratheon have visions-dreams that’s the reason he drink so much and we see also Ned having dreams about dragons(Raeghar) after he sits on the throne…
39 when he died? Why do the depictions of him show him as super elderly with very very long gray hair and a beard.
He looked very old indeed, he had long hair, a long beard and very long nails (he had a fear of people with knives around him) and was very skinny because he barely ate for fear of poison. He already had white hair soooo he looked very very old.
Probably because in the show everyone is aged up. Ned and Catelyn are supposed to be in their 30s but appear to be in their late forties or fifties. Those depictions have filtered into fan art and thus AI, so most people probably assume he's like 60.
Because his mind aged him he was so far gone that his poisoned mind had taken his youth away from him
Ned stark was 35 in the books
That last line where he called Aerys Aegon confused me haha
I'm not particularly knowledgeable in ASoIaF, but I remember several years ago there was a theory floating around that "burn them all" came to Aerys' mind because of Bloodraven showing him in visions how to kill The others. And due to these visions he went even mad-er. But this was heavily influenced by the show's version of stuff, so I don't know.
It was Bloodraven giving visions to Aerys of the Others.
The Summerhall conflagration could have hatched the dragons if Aerys and Rhaegar had not escaped.The fire needed King's Blood and Heir's Blood (possibly infant). Then Aerys could have survived the flames and emerged with Dragons. But Dunk's foot allowed them to escape.
Aerys' plan would have sacrificed the King (him) and a young Heir (little Aegon). So maybe little Rhaenys would have emerged unburnt with Dragons which would impress everyone enough to crown her instead of Viserys.
I believe the dragon dreams of dragons being reborn were all misinterpretations of Daenerys Targaryen. They saw a vision of her in the future practicing blood magic and Egg attempted to do the same with his family. Maester Aemon finally realized all of this right before he died.
There were other Targaryen blood that would work but maybe more blood or sacrifice was needed
@@rhaenyraitargaryen6360maybe? Maybe it wasn't Egg but he got blamed? Brynden Rivers managed to escape Summerhall and Maester Aemon probably didn't do it although Bloodraven sus as hell.
U missed the burn them in their beds bit he was absolutely mad and wanted Kings landing to pay for their future King with their lives.
The missing ingredient for the ritual must’ve been the comet that everyone saw at the beginning of a Clash of Kings.
I always figured that the 3 eyed crow tried to prepare him, and that this is how he knows it won't work when Bran wants to talk to people in the past.
This thesis made a major assumption about what happened at Summerhall, which is only a fan theory at the moment. It's plausible, but it's not confirmed in the canon
Then why did Jamie say that he kept yelling “burn them all”?
Later Targaryens seems so fixated on Wild Fire. I think that Dragon cannot or will not hatch from Wild Fire. They want true real red flames and blood. They do not want a fake magic green flame as none of them blow green flames.
I might be wrong but Danys dragons had no Wild fire in their hatching
@@chardaskieyou're right just a lot of wood
I like the theory that Bran made him mad by telling him to burn them all as in the Others.
"The birth of one's first child...."
But Aerys and Rhealla hated each other....
Always fantastic vids Robert 🐲🔥❤️ Incest probably causing madness, prophecy, dreams, and trauma don't mix well. Great theory!!!!
Good sir, idk if you read your comments, especially on videos this old, but I must ask this question because id love to see a video on it. You're my favorite ASOIAF and Middle Earth/Legendarium content creator, so I'd prefer if you were the person to make the video anyway.
The question is this: Would Wildfire/Wyldfire burn a Dragon? Obviously they must be resistant or immune to fire considering that they don't burn themselves when spewing giant swathes of flame AND I've never seen or heard of any instances where dragons used their flames against other dragons in battle, they just seem to bite and scratch.
Could be wrong but I think it's in the books that the dragons do burn each other a bit
They Called him a mad king for trying to introduce mountain dew to westeros