Thank you so much for this video I just recently found in Arctic Cat, 1971 puma with weak ignition among other problems but now I feel confident that I can address it. thanks for spending the time.
thank you this is the most straight foward and overall best and simpilest guide ive ever found on how to truble shoot spark on a small engine like this now i will have a fighting chance at fixing a free panther i got from a friend, Thank you
All good. Glad it helps. Key is to start measuring resistance of coils, thats easy. Then check points. After that its condensers. Go to Vintage Snow and find the manual you need for the electrical specs. If you need a particular set of electrical specifications, you can E mail me at jasoner@wipaire.com
Jason thank you for posting this video I found all the specs in my book as well but I’m using your video it’s much easier I finally have a spark in one cylinder so far I’ve replaced the points and the condensers Oem wow was it a bear to soldier that stuff on. I didn’t want to melt and destroy the new condenser I was very careful did as quick as possible. Pitter patter.
That’s so nice of you to comment like that. I hope you get it sparking on both holes soon. Not sure what you are working on but when I do a points motor now I just get new external coils, condensers, and caps and plugs like immediately. Just not worth the brain damage down the road mid season. Glad it helped. Comments like this make me want to do more “how to” stuff. I kind of backed away and turned comments off on a couple of videos due to some real jerks. When I went looking for how to help, there was nothing. Always glad to help. Good luck!
@@Letsfixsomething26 Jason I got spark in both cylinders but it’s weak I think. Ignore the idiots. I have a channel on here check me out. I was a fatso then not anymore lol. I may pick up a set of external coils. Thank you 😊
Well I learned a lot on this one, and the 2nd machine I did he condensers were replaced, along with a host of other things all over the sled. I now have a minimum list when I take on these things. Condensers are one of them.
Awesome video. I have a ‘71 puma and I have followed your videos. Can you set timing using a multimeter with the tone on? The only way I could get timing set was to increase point gap but now that’s out of tolerance but still spark on both sides
I guess I’ve never tried it. I’ve seen people who use a flashlight and will interrupt the circuit to get a light flasher, but a solid state modern meter like a Fluke or whatever not sure. You could just try it. Pull coil wire as I did and connect the wire to the meter, slowly turn it over and see if you get a tone change. Shouldn’t hurt anything turning it slowly.
Hey Jason this video really helped me as I’m not very good with electrical. But my sleds timing is off. So I bought a buzz box same as yours but notice you have an extra wire ( green) and you explain why? Thanks
That box is meant for a dual magneto aircraft engine. They need to be timed together. You can just let that one wire hang if you are timing a single cylinder. That light just stays out and that tone stays quiet. When doing a 2 cylinder motor I hook both of them up. I just use red as the right side points. Glad it helped
Oooh boy. No idea. Guessing the service manual is the place to start. There should be a full service manual available either at dealership or for download somewhere. I’d try E bay. I have successfully purchased PDF downloads for various things I own off E bay. Also this is a completely different ignition system than your modern sled so no idea what to tell you there. Good luck!
@@Letsfixsomething26 thanks! I appreciate it, I’ll try and get a service manual for it and go from there. Great video by the way, I think it’ll really help me troubleshoot what’s going on😂. Thanks again!
There are “flyweights” that rotate a cam at higher RPM. Using the incorrect length bolts on starter cup will interfere with these arms and change timing horribly. I’ve seen that on one of my motors that I tore down.
Gotta be honest Steven, I rarely mess with my ignition systems on my rider sleds. I’ll double check timing in the off season and that’s about it. Rode the bell out of a points sled (T1B340) and a CDI motor (T1C340) and never fouled a plug or had any issues all season. Put as much new stuff in as you can and your golden for a long time. Thanks for the comment!
Correct. The stator is often referred to as the “magneto”, which has points… vs electronic ignition. I also mention aircraft which also use dual magnetos. Kind of all the same thing if you break it down to it’s simplest parts. You will often hear the sled engine referred to as PTO (clutch) side and MAG (Magneto) side.
On the RH side between the bulkhead and pan. I hadn't put the original battery box in trying to save weight. The 73 Panther is a tank, another 20 lbs of crap isnt going to matter.
Aden, I bought a "parts" sled about a year ago. Had spark, fuel, all that. Would not run. Someone had hogged out the flywheel holes with SAE threads, then put in a bolt that was too long. It messed with the retard cam on the flywheel. NO WAY it was going to start. Also, I find that timing the T1B340/440 right at the "F" mark makes them hard starting. Under advisement from a GOD and GURU on these things, he noted that the T1A and T1C are both timed well advanced compared to the T1B. I advance my T1B motors slightly from the "F" mark now. .150" to the right of the "F" mark I scribed a line. That is my timing mark now. I run 91 NON OXY anyway at 40:1 and all is well. My Lynx starts first pull with 1.5 shots of prime. The panther does not have a primer so you need to get the fuel up to the carb so a bit more pulling. Once the carb has the fuel right up to it, it is just a pull or two. I would yank my arm off on panther. Advancing the timing that little bit made all the difference in the world. Same pistons, same rods, same cylinders........and different timing. Weird. The slot in the stator is big enough for the advance, although it is at the end of the slot nearly. Good luck.
If I get back to dealing with timing I will try and dig deeper on it. Honestly I just followed the manual. Fortunately for me I have magneto theory in my head from my life as an aircraft mechanic so I already understood the concept.. I just had to apply it to this application. Meaning I wasn’t scared at the system as a whole, but had to figure out the differences and apply it accordingly. Again if the situation presents itself, I’ll take another wack at it.
340 Kawasaki what...?? What year sled/motor? The OHM values are in this video however if you want to PM me, that is fine too. If this is a pre 74 motor then you are dealing with point ignition vs CDI. Once we establish you are reading the ohm values properly of the IGN coils and external coils, and you have good plugs, then we need to check the points. If that is all dandy you are probably looking at condensors. Super cheap and once you get fly wheel off, not too bad of a job.
Always messing around with those old systems, so much can go wrong! I go threw the same shit on my 73 JD CCW 440 engine...but ya get real good at it after about 30 times..🤣😂🤣😂 Denso ign in mine but some have the kokusan ign...
Once I figured out to just rebuild em with new coils, condensers, etc… they seem just fine and trouble free. I have yet to even replace points. Clean em, and that’s about it. I did move some timing around and advanced one motor with not such good results. I’m back to stock marks on all machines now. Better safe than sorry
@@Letsfixsomething26 Yup definantly do not advance timing on the CCW burn pto side down...😬😬😬😬😳 Finding pistons and rings for the 73 ccw 440 is absolutely non existent....
![HOW TO TEST A STATOR / WHAT IS A STATOR [step by step] GY6](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/VoXYzQ61tRM/mqdefault.jpg)
Thank you so much for this video I just recently found in Arctic Cat, 1971 puma with weak ignition among other problems but now I feel confident that I can address it. thanks for spending the time.
Glad it helped
thank you this is the most straight foward and overall best and simpilest guide ive ever found on how to truble shoot spark on a small engine like this now i will have a fighting chance at fixing a free panther i got from a friend, Thank you
All good. Glad it helps. Key is to start measuring resistance of coils, thats easy. Then check points. After that its condensers. Go to Vintage Snow and find the manual you need for the electrical specs. If you need a particular set of electrical specifications, you can E mail me at jasoner@wipaire.com
Another great video. Please keep them coming. Very helpful!
Thank you! Just diagnosed my 72 puma 440.
Connor, congrats man! Glad it helped.
Jason thank you for posting this video I found all the specs in my book as well but I’m using your video it’s much easier I finally have a spark in one cylinder so far I’ve replaced the points and the condensers Oem wow was it a bear to soldier that stuff on. I didn’t want to melt and destroy the new condenser I was very careful did as quick as possible. Pitter patter.
That’s so nice of you to comment like that. I hope you get it sparking on both holes soon. Not sure what you are working on but when I do a points motor now I just get new external coils, condensers, and caps and plugs like immediately. Just not worth the brain damage down the road mid season. Glad it helped. Comments like this make me want to do more “how to” stuff. I kind of backed away and turned comments off on a couple of videos due to some real jerks. When I went looking for how to help, there was nothing. Always glad to help. Good luck!
@@Letsfixsomething26 Jason
I got spark in both cylinders but it’s weak I think. Ignore the idiots. I have a channel on here check me out. I was a fatso then not anymore lol. I may pick up a set of external coils.
Thank you 😊
Dennis Kirk for coils for the 73 T1B340/440. Work great
@@Letsfixsomething26 Jason
I ordered a set came in as parts unlimited brand ign 083. Nice sparky ⚡️ 🧲….
nice job ! I aiways replace coils points and condensors when I REBUILD THOSE
Well I learned a lot on this one, and the 2nd machine I did he condensers were replaced, along with a host of other things all over the sled. I now have a minimum list when I take on these things. Condensers are one of them.
I just learned something you can only be taught in a shop class or by a dad if you have one who knows this stuff.
Wow, that is so nice. I am not a teacher, but I am a dad so THANKS!
Awesome video. I have a ‘71 puma and I have followed your videos. Can you set timing using a multimeter with the tone on? The only way I could get timing set was to increase point gap but now that’s out of tolerance but still spark on both sides
I guess I’ve never tried it. I’ve seen people who use a flashlight and will interrupt the circuit to get a light flasher, but a solid state modern meter like a Fluke or whatever not sure. You could just try it. Pull coil wire as I did and connect the wire to the meter, slowly turn it over and see if you get a tone change. Shouldn’t hurt anything turning it slowly.
Hey Jason this video really helped me as I’m not very good with electrical. But my sleds timing is off. So I bought a buzz box same as yours but notice you have an extra wire ( green) and you explain why? Thanks
That box is meant for a dual magneto aircraft engine. They need to be timed together. You can just let that one wire hang if you are timing a single cylinder. That light just stays out and that tone stays quiet. When doing a 2 cylinder motor I hook both of them up. I just use red as the right side points. Glad it helped
Where would I be able to find these specifications for say a 1998 Ski Doo Mach 1 Triple 700?
Oooh boy. No idea. Guessing the service manual is the place to start. There should be a full service manual available either at dealership or for download somewhere. I’d try E bay. I have successfully purchased PDF downloads for various things I own off E bay. Also this is a completely different ignition system than your modern sled so no idea what to tell you there. Good luck!
@@Letsfixsomething26 thanks! I appreciate it, I’ll try and get a service manual for it and go from there. Great video by the way, I think it’ll really help me troubleshoot what’s going on😂. Thanks again!
How does the timing advance work?
There are “flyweights” that rotate a cam at higher RPM. Using the incorrect length bolts on starter cup will interfere with these arms and change timing horribly. I’ve seen that on one of my motors that I tore down.
Does it have to have 12 volt supplied to get power?
Internal 9 volt battery
Yep been there...as a snowmobile mechanic since 1968! Much prefer these systems to the new stuff..
.like working on new cars!....😡
Gotta be honest Steven, I rarely mess with my ignition systems on my rider sleds. I’ll double check timing in the off season and that’s about it. Rode the bell out of a points sled (T1B340) and a CDI motor (T1C340) and never fouled a plug or had any issues all season. Put as much new stuff in as you can and your golden for a long time. Thanks for the comment!
Very good. Thanks
Magneto, points?
Correct. The stator is often referred to as the “magneto”, which has points… vs electronic ignition. I also mention aircraft which also use dual magnetos. Kind of all the same thing if you break it down to it’s simplest parts. You will often hear the sled engine referred to as PTO (clutch) side and MAG (Magneto) side.
Where is the battery on one if these? I've been looking.
On the RH side between the bulkhead and pan. I hadn't put the original battery box in trying to save weight. The 73 Panther is a tank, another 20 lbs of crap isnt going to matter.
@@Letsfixsomething26 The battery is a bit fancy for me. Recoil all the way
Hey, i have the same sled and it has spark but all it does is backfires out of the carb and doesnt start
Aden, I bought a "parts" sled about a year ago. Had spark, fuel, all that. Would not run. Someone had hogged out the flywheel holes with SAE threads, then put in a bolt that was too long. It messed with the retard cam on the flywheel. NO WAY it was going to start. Also, I find that timing the T1B340/440 right at the "F" mark makes them hard starting. Under advisement from a GOD and GURU on these things, he noted that the T1A and T1C are both timed well advanced compared to the T1B. I advance my T1B motors slightly from the "F" mark now. .150" to the right of the "F" mark I scribed a line. That is my timing mark now. I run 91 NON OXY anyway at 40:1 and all is well. My Lynx starts first pull with 1.5 shots of prime. The panther does not have a primer so you need to get the fuel up to the carb so a bit more pulling. Once the carb has the fuel right up to it, it is just a pull or two. I would yank my arm off on panther. Advancing the timing that little bit made all the difference in the world. Same pistons, same rods, same cylinders........and different timing. Weird. The slot in the stator is big enough for the advance, although it is at the end of the slot nearly. Good luck.
Would you please show how to adjust points again in more detail- does the angle of the flywheel matter- can I just measure it and open the points😂
If I get back to dealing with timing I will try and dig deeper on it. Honestly I just followed the manual. Fortunately for me I have magneto theory in my head from my life as an aircraft mechanic so I already understood the concept.. I just had to apply it to this application. Meaning I wasn’t scared at the system as a whole, but had to figure out the differences and apply it accordingly. Again if the situation presents itself, I’ll take another wack at it.
Cant get spark on 340 kawasaki with 900 miles on it. Need ohms sheet to check.
340 Kawasaki what...?? What year sled/motor? The OHM values are in this video however if you want to PM me, that is fine too. If this is a pre 74 motor then you are dealing with point ignition vs CDI. Once we establish you are reading the ohm values properly of the IGN coils and external coils, and you have good plugs, then we need to check the points. If that is all dandy you are probably looking at condensors. Super cheap and once you get fly wheel off, not too bad of a job.
@@frankmiller4032 reach out on FB messenger. Jason Erickson
My hunch is you need capacitor replaced. I change them no matter what when I rebuild a motor now.
facebook.com/jason.erickson.39
@@Letsfixsomething26 Plus the values change between the 71-72 points ignitions and the 73-74 points ignitions
Always messing around with those old systems, so much can go wrong! I go threw the same shit on my 73 JD CCW 440 engine...but ya get real good at it after about 30 times..🤣😂🤣😂 Denso ign in mine but some have the kokusan ign...
Once I figured out to just rebuild em with new coils, condensers, etc… they seem just fine and trouble free. I have yet to even replace points. Clean em, and that’s about it. I did move some timing around and advanced one motor with not such good results. I’m back to stock marks on all machines now. Better safe than sorry
@@Letsfixsomething26 Yup definantly do not advance timing on the CCW burn pto side down...😬😬😬😬😳 Finding pistons and rings for the 73 ccw 440 is absolutely non existent....