Hamish his name. Its all describes :) He just forgot as mic increase sensitivity with taping far or closer. Also his boots can be not in frame. Good luck next videos. Nicy overall
Yes, we have done falls with various amounts of slippage in the Grigri. We plan to make a short video showing these. I don't want to give people any assurances of safety. This isn't a beginners activity and so the fall video will make it very clear that we are not telling them that it will all work if they fall. In fact, one of our findings was that the falls are a lot harder because there is no soft catch. Some people have been trying screamers which is a great idea to reduce the force. We may include this as well.
Here we did a (really home made) video on a controlled fall: ua-cam.com/video/mzOo5MxoKdQ/v-deo.html With a 8mm rope it didn't work, but it worked perfectly with a thicker one (9,8mm). Thanks very much Matt for the vid.
Great video Matt. I would have used an alpine butterfly to re-anchor into the draw below an edge when you were rapping the pitch. Easy to undo after jugging on it, and much more secure.
First time watching this in 2020, I got great knowledge with safety and practical skills here, loved the video, definitely going to do a few courses to learn properly and practice, years ago didn’t get this teaching it was very basic on abseiling,always keen to learn more ,thanks for sharing. 👍 liked and subscribed.
Good to hear you are so keen. If you're new to climbing then learning is so important. Rope soloing is something that needs good experience before trying as it is more complex. Have fun climbing and stay safe.
Thank you! Was about to ask whether it was your horse or Darth Wader filming..thanks pal, great help for one-hand climbing, i am gonna use your ideas when balancing with a camera!
thanks for the video i have just recently heard about solo free climbing and never got a good view how they did the ancor or how the rope feeds.. thats awesome if this had been around when i was climbing i may still be climbing ..
Well done Matt. I think you have the right skills to make instructional vids. I hope in the future you can make some about aid climbing techniques, I'd like to learn some from you.
+Leave No Trace Thanks for the support. Currently we don't have any "instructional" aid vids planned but we will show some of it in our training for "Nose in a day" videos. We do plan to do a speed simul-climbing demo some time soon. Probably on a Tibro multipitch or on Ruby of India.
Using a shunt in this configuration would be extremely dangerous. While not the best device for the purpose, the shunt is functional as a top rope soloing device. A Grigri is cheap, your life shouldn’t be.
Interesting system. I'll try that. usually I'm doing clumsy clove or just a gri gri. I tried the soloist but thought it was way too big and slightly...scary. I'd definitely clove the 2nd bolt....and any bomber on route others because hey, a fall on five pieces (sharp edges) is better than 1. Cool vid thanks
Hi Matt , excellent demo, I've been rope soloing for a couple years now but you have given me some great tips to smooth out my own soloing. I've not taken a fall yet have you ? I use a shunt when seconding but hadn't worked out a back up but your solution looks spot on. Thanks
Great video. Considering trying it myself although trad so I'll have to think about pull directions especially first anchors. Also pretty cool you are such good friends with Darth Vader you could persuade him to film you
Pretty sure he wasn't nervous as we once simul-climbed all 5 pitches in 12 minutes and he placed 11 quick draws in total, but I will tell him that everyone on youtube is offering him words of comfort ;)
Awesome vid and good system with the slipknots. As a rope access climber I'm not to keen on a potential shock load onto the Microtraxion especially with a fall factor 2 in a (I guess) 30 cm sling. I usually use a jumar and croll combo when climbing back up. Or on easy terrain I stay in my grigri. That said, great vid and thanks for taking the time to make this!!
Hi Alex, Thanks for the comment. Regarding the fall onto the traxion as a backup, have you checked out the petzl documentation on it? www.petzl.com/GB/en/Sport/Self-belaying-with-the-MICRO-TRAXION?ProductName=MICRO-TRAXION&Familly=Pulleys#.WLNdV_JUo5w We did some of our own testing as well because we use them when we simul-climb to stop the leader being pulled off by the second. We found that a factor 0.5 fall did small rope damage and is a very hard catch but of course that will be the case for any device. I you have 10 meters of rope above you, it seems like the traxion is well up to the task. I have actually taken a top rope fall while seconding on simul when I pulled off a large rock. It worked perfectly and my leader didn't even know I fell;) I would be keen to see how you set the jumar into place. I have tried with one but never had it feed very well.
Genial... siempre he visto la modificación en el grigri 1 pero nunca en el 2!!!.. GENIAL!!!... lo que no me ha quedado claro es la modificación que haz hecho. no me gustaría improvisar, sino realizar una que ya ha dado resultado, si pudieras indicarme como lo hiciste, Te agradecería un monto. Ya que en le video no me quedo claro. GRACIAS (Great ... I've always seen the modification in grigri 1 but never in 2 !!! .. GREAT !!! ... what has not been clear to me is the modification you have made. I would not like to improvise, but to do one that has already paid off, if you could tell me how you did it, I would appreciate an amount. Since in the video I am not clear. THANK YOU)
Luis. The only mod I did was to make a way to hang it upside down. I think I briefly mentioned the options in the start of the video. 1) glue a loop of cord to the black plastic close to the axel end. or 2) put a thin loop of fishing line or strong thread around the axel. Make sure it doesn't interfere with it opening. I did the first option but drilled a small hole in the black plastic (careful not to interfere with anything) and glued the cord into the hole for extra strength. I can't recommend doing this but it has worked well for me and you can make your own decisions. Good luck.
I would use an alpine butterfly knot instead of the overhand slip as a catastrophe knot. In a catastrophe, the overhand slip could be pulled out before it stops the fall.
You could use any number of non-slipping knots but it would just mean a lot more time and effort to get them undone. You could always add in the odd bomber knot as a super backup but it depends on what you are climbing.
As I say, it is all about the circumstances you are in. It isn't for everyone. Although, I would point out that over a single pitch of climbing, it is a small convenience, over a much larger climb, it makes a lot more difference. You just need to make a judgement in each case. Sometimes I use almost no knots if there is almost no chance of a fall.
I would strongly disagree, you definitely don't a 'real' knot of any kind on the rope path - the slip knot is way more than sufficient to trigger the device.
Is the backup knot more about triggering the device though, or is it to block against the device in case the device doesn't catch (this was my understanding, and I've read all of your posts)? Will a slip knot come out when slammed against the grigri/eddy/etc?
Used a modded grigri for years on maybe a couple of thousand pitches or so and it works tolerably, but the Eddy is sooo much better suited for the job from my perspective (ymmv). Definitely never looked back once it came on the market, but then everyone does need to sort out what works for themselves.
I'd be keen to see the setup with the Eddy. I haven't used one but I understand that they are about twice the weight. Did you find that it fed by itself without needing to use your hand to pull rope through?
Matt, I've been lead rope soloing multipitch trad with various techniques since '75 and it constitutes about 50-75% of my climbing in any given year. Here's a piece I wrote about what I do back in '07. www.rockclimbing.com/Articles/Training_and_Technique/Roped_Solo_Free_Climbing_-_The_essence_of_self-reliance_one_path_among_many_675.html I find the weight difference is inconsequential I've never noticed it at all. It does feed way, way better than a non-chest-mounted modded grigri (I can't stand anything against my chest / stomach that way). It feeds better because it has a rope path the reverse of a grigri and so long as both sides of the rope are hanging below the device is just feeds. I rarely have to intervene and when it does occasionally lock, it's a simple and easy thumb slide to unlock it. Here's a shot of me using my rig: www.supertopo.com/photos/35/9/472387_9952_L.jpg and here's one of my routes I regularly lead with it: www.supertopo.com/photos/33/17/453204_29506_XL.jpg
Didn't notice breathing like the air nazis in comments. Nice video, thanks for sharing. Rope soloed Castle Rock in Wisconsin long ago. Impromptu short climb of clove hitches on sketchy pro, a little down climbing finishing off with a short rappel on a single rope. This video looks like an up and over with a hike back down? Nice setup and climbing, stay safe.
Could you also use another ascending device to back up the gri gri on lead? Such and flipping the Croll and having it positioned above the grigri (similar to the top rope set up) instead of having the knots? I think the thing that just messes with me on this is getting over the fact that you are never really tied into the rope. Thank you for posting such a good video.
Cobra0911 the croll or traxion backup would not work like on top rope. Leading requires letting rope out not in. There is a more solid backup option that I will post when I get the chance.
I have tested it and it can work but there are a few reasons why not. Mainly, it is because if the rope isn't flaked perfectly - which is often the case if you dont have a nice ledge - then it can get jammed and you are unable to sort it out.
If you have a clean vertical cliff, hanging the rope works well. On climbs that wander and can get loops caught, or if there is a lot of wind, then I think there is an advantage to back packs. Getting a rope snag really sucks if you are on your own in alpine conditions. Using the micro trax and hanging the rope is great for short fixing on big wall climbs too. If I do it now, I also don't put the grigri upside down. I just have a smaller cache loop. Depends on the rope.
Very useful. I have been testing GriGri solo rope leading on simple terrain, and your video covers many of the issues. I am using a GriGri Plus, and needed to switch modes when I changed from leading to rappel. In your video, which model GriGri are you using ?
Hey Matt, excellent video. I've seen it multiple times before my first and second rope solo and everything you said in the video made perfect sense. I haven't figured out a way to make the grigri self feed without modifying it. But i'll try and work out your arrangement. I have a couple of questions. Everyone talks about backup knots in rope solos. I haven't figured this one out yet. Could you maybe make a video about backup knots during a rope solo. Your slip knots are blocking knots in case the grigri doesn't catch. But what if the grigri breaks or the carabiner clipped to the grigri breaks. I have read of an account where a DMM Belay Master broke on a fall with a grigri. Could you just enlighten me about the backup knots. Finally, like someone commented below, would you advise using an alternative auto blocking device. If so, which one. I'm tying to see if the CAMP Matik, or the Edelrid Eddy or even the new Wild Country Revo can be used as a substitute. Not that I can afford any yet. But if I were to invest in something specifically for rope soloing, what would you recommend. I've heard of and seen how the Rock Exotica Soloist operates, is that something you would recommend? So far I've completed two climbs including a multi pitch on rope solo, without falling. However, I'm concerned about the backup and would like to understand it better before I try anything harder. So, would appreciate a response.
Thanks for the message. 1) Grigri self feeding. You really do need the grigri to be held in position in order to self feed. The only mod that I have made is to glue on a loop to the plastic section. Another option I have seen done is to put a piece of strong thread or thin fishing line around where it opens. Just make sure that it doesn't interfere too much with it opening and closing. I would love to find a device that will work well without a chest harness although on big climbs I almost always have a small pack that I can clip it to for self belaying when short fixing. 2) Backup Knots. The problem with backup knots that are clipped to you is that obviously you need to have some portion of the rope outside of the bag. Having the biner break is probably more likely than having the grigri break as cross loading is very easy to do. One solution that I have set up but never used or fall tested is to put a mallion on the waist loop of my harness and run the rope down through that or have a sling on the harness linked to a mallion on my should strap. The idea being that if all failed, it MAY catch you there. I have never tried fall testing a mallion blocking any kind of knot but it might be worth testing some time. I tend to focus on avoiding the possibility of cross loading by keeping the grigri solidly positioned with rubber stoppers. Don't underestimate the usefulness of these cheap and simple things. They also help when you lean over and then stand up by stopping the grigri sliding around on the biner. I also velcro the biner to my lower harness loop. BTW. the Biner I use is oval and steel with a high cross load rating. 3) Unfortunately, I haven't tried any of the other device that you mentioned. I was very tempted to order a soloist because it looks clean. The only issue is that a Grigri is just so damn useful on a big wall or even a standard multi. All the best with your experimentation.
I'm probably going to try my 3rd rope solo tomorrow. I will probably end up using the system in the same way tomorrow as I have in the past, but for any future attempts, I sure will use the rubber stoppers. I trust that you have tried many different ways to keep the grigri upright and this is a simple yet effective solution. I am however considering using a rope to tie in the grigri through both loops of my harness (provided I use the rubber stops and the glued in small loop clipped to a chest harness equivalent to keep the grigri upright). That way, it eliminates the need for a carabiner and so no cross loading at all. The Soloist apparently is tied in to the harness in a similar fashion. Its just that it'll be a pain to untie the grigri and tie it back again and hence might slow the process of the climb itself. But until I try this on an easier climb and fall test it, I probably will stick to using a steel carabiner. Thanks again for the response.
Thanks for the explanation. I like the simplicity of the system, without requiring a silent partner. However, why use slipknots on your draws instead of clove hitches? I just don't get it. Need 2 hands for the slipknots, and they pop. You only need 1 hand for a clove, and they stay in place, giving the system more security.
Hi Miguel, the slip knots are designed to pop so as to spread the load over the full length of rope if you fall. If you tie clove hitches to hold the rope in place, you risk a factor 2 fall when climbing above it until you clip the next draw. That would be a bad situation. Also, slip knots can be tied with 1 hand fairly easily. If you want to tie a clove hitch at points where you know you are not going to fall right above, that can be useful, especially if your rope was running over sharp edges etc.
Anyone think about clipping a Kong Kisa to the first bolt to provide a softer catch and limit shock loading the anchor? The downside being you have more rope in the system which could lead to a ground fall if there'e too much slack.
Hi Rob, I have seconded on a gri-gri and the problem is that it requires you to constantly pull through the slack. Takes the fun out of the climbing. If I was only doing a bit of roped soloing on a big climb then I wouldn't bring a croll and would just use the grigri. However, because of their usefulness on multipitches, I often just use 2 micro traxions to second. I also use one clipped above me for repacking the bag at the next pitch. i.e. I pull the rope up, using the traxion to hold it as I stuff the bag and tie the knots. Each style of climb may be best suited to a different method of ascending. Gri-gri, grigri + jumar, jumars, croll or traxions. Whatever works best for you.
No. weighting the grigri below would simply act like the break hand and lock it off. That is why when leading, the cache loop can only be so big before the weight of the rope locks it off.
Why do you carry the rope with you and not leave it at the base of the climb? You can lead rope solo with the rope at the bottom of the climb. Is there any particular reason why you decide to carry it with you? It seems extra weight, although it gives you a little more control of it.
I like it. But what would be the setup if I want to leave my rope on the ground instead in the bag and climbing with it? Can you make a vdo on that too?
Shehryar khattak The best way is to use a rope grab like a traxion on your gear loop or waist strap to take the weight. Then you just feed your cache loop from there. Hope that helps.
Hi Matt, great vid, at the end after you have rappelled and are climbing using the jumar & microtraxion the rope looks like it is weighted, are you still attached to the bottom bolt or what do you use to weight the rope?
No. I don't have it still attached in any way. You need to be able to pull the rope cleanly afterwards for the next pitch. The fact that it hangs is just the weight of the rope. After about 5 metres it feeds fairly easily and the traxions flow fairly well.
At 6:40 I get extremely confused. You didn’t explain what your clipping the non-climbing carabiner into in the Grigri. There’s some extra piece on yours and you didn’t say anything about it.
In case of a grigri malfunction such as can happen in an upside down fall or the lever being caught open, these knots will block the device. If you are fairly new to climbing, this technique is probably not suited to you for a while. A lot more can go wrong than normal lead climbing.
Does anyone else from Australia get really confused sometimes when you hear someone who's not an American, but just to make sure you watch a video of an American and then it clicks... kiwi...
Excellent video. Are you familiar with the Silent Partner device? I was wondering if using the slip-knot method you show would work as a backup knot with it? I see in the SP manual they recommend tieing several backup knots (eg clove hitch) onto locking biners on the harness and having several big loops drooping down - which looks messy to me. I've done top-rope soloing using a mictotraxion + microcender, but never leading.
Hi Troy, the slip knots that I use are designed to be blocking knots. The silent partner doesn't have any clean way of stopping the knots from moving through. They may well jam up the clove hitch but it would be messy. It may be worth testing using a mailon to block a knot which can also be an extension to my system, but I am not sure where it would go because I think that with the silent partner, all of the rope is hanging below you. I have never tested this catching a fall, but I do sometimes fix jugging lines using the same method that I showed in the video for taking up the tension on the quick draw. It may be possible to feed a bunch of rope into a cache loop for the silent partner and then periodically, with one hand untie, feed more and then retie the slip knot. Something I did used to do was to use a micro traxion as a backup. Pretty easy to feed more rope into the system and lock off, but although we have tested falling on them, I would not want to take a large fall onto one. Then again, it is a backup and if you keep the cache small, it reduces the risk. But then you still have the same issue of where to place it and what to attach it to so that it doesn't smash against the SP. Hope that there is something in that for you. Remember not to rush into lead soloing. It is much easier to mess yourself up than normal leading.
Thanks a lot for your reply. You're right, I see that the SP design is quite open around the drum so the slip knot wouldn't block well. I see on the 'multipitchclimbing' site (Ch 12: Going Solo - link below) a photo of using the SP with rope in a backpack (but says 'backup knot not shown'). I really like your system where backup slip knots can be just popped out easily at the rucksack strap, but would need to investigate the maillon idea thoroughly! Perhaps the rope could come from the backpack through a (small but very strong) maillon on the belay loop & still feed the SP. multipitchclimbing.com/ You're quite right to advise caution: I always try to follow Whymper's advice to "do nothing in haste"!
Hi, the only thing that remained unclear is why do you do the knots in the rope when you coil it in the bag? Is it just to keep track how much rope is in the system?
fxdx they are backup knots to jam the grigri if it slips. please don't try this technique unless you are an experienced climber. grigris can fail under certain conditions with this configuration such as upside down falls.
Thanks. I wish I had seen this video before I did my first ever solo aid pitch on El Cap, had to learn along the way :) you got some really good tips here on efficiency!
No. Not at all. It is dangerous to let the rope run behind your ankles which may cause you to flip upside down when you fall past your last piece. Having the rope between your legs is perfectly fine.
ASAP 11-13 mm statik ipler için kullanım sınırı var. bu videoda lider tırmanıştan bahsediyor. Bunun dışında da faktörler var. (ipin rahat akması, ip ağırlığı, cihazın şok dayanımı).
Question on the back-up slip knots that are on the rope feeding out of the bag - if the Grigri were to fail locking up for some reason, these knots would all pop out, one by one. So they are not in fact back-up knots at all. Am I missing something here?
The slip knots come apart if you pull on both sides of the rope, not if something pushes up against it from the grigri side. Jamming them into something like the grigri only makes them tighter. In addition to that, it normally only takes a small amount of resistance to lock a slipping grigri unless it is actually jammed open. Anyone who wants to test it can hang up a maillon and do slip knot (in the correct direction) and stand on a foot loop in the rope on the other side. Even a very loose knot will jam up. The correct way to tie them is to make a small loop and then tuck a bite through from the side away from the grigri.
Thanks for the quick reply Matthew - and great video! I was about to start chopping & drilling my grigri until seeing your video. A low angle test had it working super smoothly. I will give the slip knot a test and double check that having it slam into the chest 'biner or the grigri doesn't cause it to roll and come undone. Thanks again!
Shouldn't have doubted you - you're right on both accounts. I guess if someone did the slip knots backwards they could, theoretically, come undone, but I agree that by then they would have caused the grigri to cam shut (unless it was somehow jammed open, in which case it might be important to tie the slip knots in the right direction - probably worth a warning to tie them correctly).
Actually, doubting me is exactly what you should do. At least being skeptical;) Great to see that you are experimenting with it all. If find that most lead soloists like to experiment. After all, no one up there to complain to if you get it wrong on a multi pitch. Would love to hear you go with it all.
Exactly. And FYI getting a belay 'biner with cross loading protection (I use the Mammut "Crag Smart") eleviates the need for the added work on the 'biner (velcro and/or rubber stoppers) - when properly threaded (I can send you a pic if you want - can't seem to include an image here) the 'biner can't rotate at all, keeping it always in-axis on a load (but is is 10kn rated on cross loading anyway, which is more than enough unless using a static line to climb, even with a static self belay). Thanks again - your system makes me realize just how damn hard I was making rope solo leading on myself the last several years (usually had to rely on French freeing or even using a fifi just to get two hands on the grigri to keep feeding myself rope). If you ever get to Central Mexico (where I live), let me know...
Good video. I've been looking for a good system with either the grigri or the petzl microtraxion. What is the benefit of the slip knots on the rope as it feeds out of the bag to the non-climbing carabiners on the pack?
Great Video Matt!! Just one thing I'd change in the top rope set up is the micro traxion on top and the other device below. If you fall on that micro with that much slack it can rip through the rope. I think the Petzl website has some good photos on the set up.
+killerbeeslaslo Thanks for the feedback. We also use microtractions for simulclimbing to protect the leader from the 2nd falling, and did some tests on them. We took a few factor 0.8 falls on them and it left only small marks on the rope, even though the climber bounced back a couple of feet. Given that the croll must be used with a chest harness and also has teeth, and that the traxion is only a backup, I am happy using it that way around. I think that I would be tempted to just use 2 micro or mini traxions rather than using the croll at all since they are more versatile on a big wall. But on a big wall you would normally jumar rather than 2nd anyway.
+Matthew Hunter Great, thanks for the info. Just thought I'd mention as i've had a few small falls on the microtraxion and the sheath doesn't look so good (ropes still fine though). I'm currently using a microcender as the back up and the micro traxion on the main, the cender is good if you need to quickly take the weight off the traxion.
We have done practice falls on it, but in this video I really don't want to convince people that it is safe to fall on a Grigri in this way because in some cases it might not work. This is more about setting up the overall system if you are already happy to lead on a Grigri.
If you use a clove hitch then you are always risking a factor 2 fall scenario when you climb above it. I wouldn't do it unless there was little to no chance of falling before then next draw. The occasional clove hitch does at least add some backup, especially if your mind starts wondering what is happening down at the anchor.
Hi Matthew! great work, one or the most comprehensive expositions of this technique online... allow me two questions: Some experienced friends of mine oppose to the croll. in their oppinion it "bites" into the rope far to agressively in case of a heavier fall. is this possible even if You are only using the device when top-roping? they even claim that besides destroying the ropes skin it can even get stucked with the rope (?) What about leading with the Cinch? J Healy has a very clear oppinion about NOT using it, but doesn´t explain and I don´t quite get the difference to the grigri or the eddy... At last, isn´t there a way to errase 99 out of 100 Darth Vader comments? The first one ist really funny, the rest just sucks! You guys did a great job in the vid!! Hello from sunny and rocky Spain! stay safe, Kornel
Hi Kornel, Thanks for the questions. People tend to hear a lot of things about what device does what to ropes. I have taken plenty of top rope falls on a croll and haven't found a problem. I don't like the croll much because it requires a chest harness and so I mostly use 2 traxions these days. The idea is that a top rope fall should always be very low force. Just don't build up the slack if it doesn't feed well. I haven't used a cinch but it mostly comes down to how well it will feed. I noticed that to feed rope with the cinch, you are meant to hold it in a certain position to make it go smoothly. I would like to have one to play with. Currently, I think the Wild Country Evo shows some promise but I haven't tried that either. As for the Darth Vader comments, he certainly isn't fat or unfit. We climbed the Nose of El Capitan in 23 hours and the 5 pitch route in thi s video in under 9 minutes, so the comments are well off the mark, but I'll try to keep them removed ;) Enjoy the Spanish winter.
Great vid!! The camera mans breathing is kind of distracting though.
JamesDaily you get what you pay for
Jesus the breathing is insane for sure! Wow....
Actually I found it comfortable. He made me fall asleep.
Hamish his name. Its all describes :) He just forgot as mic increase sensitivity with taping far or closer.
Also his boots can be not in frame. Good luck next videos. Nicy overall
I know right!! I found it a bit disturbing
OMFG THE CAMERAMAN'S BREATHING!
Kushwant Bussawah IKR?!?!
Yeah good vid without sound on
DUDE!!!!!! How did you get Darth Vader to film for you?!?!?!?! :P
brilliant video and i dig your setup
I was about to post the same hahahaha
My first thought
Rope Soloing is a Sith discipline from way back!😜
I find your lack of faith disturbing
Nice video. You articulated each point well. Thank you!
Great vid. I couldn't stop thinking at Darth Vader in a black harness hanging off a bolt with a black rope to film the scene ; )
this is the best instructional video ive seen that doesnt require weird gear!
08:19 a wild birds rendition of Africa by Toto
Underrated comment, good catch
thanks! just came from my first rope solo. i used this technique. i need to work on it more but its awesome!! thanksssss again.
the only thing missing is a controlled fall showing the system working.
Yes, we have done falls with various amounts of slippage in the Grigri. We plan to make a short video showing these. I don't want to give people any assurances of safety. This isn't a beginners activity and so the fall video will make it very clear that we are not telling them that it will all work if they fall.
In fact, one of our findings was that the falls are a lot harder because there is no soft catch. Some people have been trying screamers which is a great idea to reduce the force. We may include this as well.
A camp matik may give softer catches.
Here we did a (really home made) video on a controlled fall: ua-cam.com/video/mzOo5MxoKdQ/v-deo.html
With a 8mm rope it didn't work, but it worked perfectly with a thicker one (9,8mm). Thanks very much Matt for the vid.
León Délano i believe grigri is not designed for 8mm rope (~8.7mm thinnest) so not surprised it didn't work
the force is strong with this one.... good instructions though honestly, one of the better solo set ups I have seen.
great vid! So many details!
Great video Matt. I would have used an alpine butterfly to re-anchor into the draw below an edge when you were rapping the pitch. Easy to undo after jugging on it, and much more secure.
Awesome video ..... first clear one yet start to finish
Thank you for this demonstration!
I searching years for this!
Thank you!
Good techniques. Mouth breathing camera man is a real distraction. Try not to breathe all over the mic dude.
First time watching this in 2020, I got great knowledge with safety and practical skills here, loved the video, definitely going to do a few courses to learn properly and practice, years ago didn’t get this teaching it was very basic on abseiling,always keen to learn more ,thanks for sharing. 👍 liked and subscribed.
Good to hear you are so keen. If you're new to climbing then learning is so important. Rope soloing is something that needs good experience before trying as it is more complex. Have fun climbing and stay safe.
Matthew Hunter ... thanks Mathew, will do indeed mate , keep the videos rolling thoroughly enjoying them .👍
30 minutes ago I wanted to learn a few knots because manly. Now I want to climb.
Very slick set up, nicely done. Love the birds, must be some very old Aussie rock
Used the set up . Works very well .
That's some HEAVY breathing!
Thank you! Was about to ask whether it was your horse or Darth Wader filming..thanks pal, great help for one-hand climbing, i am gonna use your ideas when balancing with a camera!
Beaut vid, a really nice setup to make climbing so much more enjoyable.
This is an excellent video, you did a great job
thanks for the video i have just recently heard about solo free climbing and never got a good view how they did the ancor or how the rope feeds.. thats awesome if this had been around when i was climbing i may still be climbing ..
Excellent demonstration.
Great video! Watching this minutes before leaving for my first solo climb :)
Did you make it back alive?
@@brisktea55 The suspance...
I love this method you demonstrated in this video. It worked great for me, thanks!
Well done Matt. I think you have the right skills to make instructional vids. I hope in the future you can make some about aid climbing techniques, I'd like to learn some from you.
+Leave No Trace Thanks for the support. Currently we don't have any "instructional" aid vids planned but we will show some of it in our training for "Nose in a day" videos.
We do plan to do a speed simul-climbing demo some time soon. Probably on a Tibro multipitch or on Ruby of India.
That sounds awesome!
Excellent video
Thank you... When I decide to solo lead, this is the method I will use.... I do not have a Grigri so will be using a Shunt and back up...
Using a shunt in this configuration would be extremely dangerous. While not the best device for the purpose, the shunt is functional as a top rope soloing device. A Grigri is cheap, your life shouldn’t be.
Thanks for the vid!! That was the most clear and comprehensive I've seen. I use the Silent partner, but I like the Grigi set up much better.
A silent partner would be nice!!
thanks Matt this video was exactly what I was looking for
Top class video, grate set up which I will be copying to a T cant weight to get out and test it. Very good instructional technique by the way Matt
Great job. Thanks! I feel ready to solo multi pitch.
Interesting system. I'll try that. usually I'm doing clumsy clove or just a gri gri. I tried the soloist but thought it was way too big and slightly...scary.
I'd definitely clove the 2nd bolt....and any bomber on route others because hey, a fall on five pieces (sharp edges) is better than 1. Cool vid thanks
Hi Matt , excellent demo, I've been rope soloing for a couple years now but you have given me some great tips to smooth out my own soloing. I've not taken a fall yet have you ? I use a shunt when seconding but hadn't worked out a back up but your solution looks spot on. Thanks
Great video. Considering trying it myself although trad so I'll have to think about pull directions especially first anchors.
Also pretty cool you are such good friends with Darth Vader you could persuade him to film you
Great demo
I love the cameraman's heavy breathing... he sounded so nervous.
Pretty sure he wasn't nervous as we once simul-climbed all 5 pitches in
12 minutes and he placed 11 quick draws in total, but I will tell him
that everyone on youtube is offering him words of comfort ;)
Awesome vid and good system with the slipknots. As a rope access climber I'm not to keen on a potential shock load onto the Microtraxion especially with a fall factor 2 in a (I guess) 30 cm sling. I usually use a jumar and croll combo when climbing back up. Or on easy terrain I stay in my grigri.
That said, great vid and thanks for taking the time to make this!!
Hi Alex, Thanks for the comment.
Regarding the fall onto the traxion as a backup, have you checked out the petzl documentation on it?
www.petzl.com/GB/en/Sport/Self-belaying-with-the-MICRO-TRAXION?ProductName=MICRO-TRAXION&Familly=Pulleys#.WLNdV_JUo5w
We did some of our own testing as well because we use them when we simul-climb to stop the leader being pulled off by the second.
We found that a factor 0.5 fall did small rope damage and is a very hard catch but of course that will be the case for any device. I you have 10 meters of rope above you, it seems like the traxion is well up to the task.
I have actually taken a top rope fall while seconding on simul when I pulled off a large rock. It worked perfectly and my leader didn't even know I fell;)
I would be keen to see how you set the jumar into place. I have tried with one but never had it feed very well.
Microtraxion should be main device and without any extension sling, preferably on chest harness. Otherwise it can brake and can/will damage rope.
Genial... siempre he visto la modificación en el grigri 1 pero nunca en el 2!!!.. GENIAL!!!... lo que no me ha quedado claro es la modificación que haz hecho. no me gustaría improvisar, sino realizar una que ya ha dado resultado, si pudieras indicarme como lo hiciste, Te agradecería un monto. Ya que en le video no me quedo claro. GRACIAS (Great ... I've always seen the modification in grigri 1 but never in 2 !!! .. GREAT !!! ... what has not been clear to me is the modification you have made. I would not like to improvise, but to do one that has already paid off, if you could tell me how you did it, I would appreciate an amount. Since in the video I am not clear. THANK YOU)
Luis. The only mod I did was to make a way to hang it upside down.
I think I briefly mentioned the options in the start of the video.
1) glue a loop of cord to the black plastic close to the axel end.
or
2) put a thin loop of fishing line or strong thread around the axel. Make sure it doesn't interfere with it opening.
I did the first option but drilled a small hole in the black plastic (careful not to interfere with anything) and glued the cord into the hole for extra strength. I can't recommend doing this but it has worked well for me and you can make your own decisions.
Good luck.
I would use an alpine butterfly knot instead of the overhand slip as a catastrophe knot. In a catastrophe, the overhand slip could be pulled out before it stops the fall.
You could use any number of non-slipping knots but it would just mean a lot more time and effort to get them undone. You could always add in the odd bomber knot as a super backup but it depends on what you are climbing.
You're still sacrificing some (maybe small) amount of security for a small convenience. No judgement intended, not a trade I'm not willing to make.
As I say, it is all about the circumstances you are in. It isn't for everyone. Although, I would point out that over a single pitch of climbing, it is a small convenience, over a much larger climb, it makes a lot more difference. You just need to make a judgement in each case. Sometimes I use almost no knots if there is almost no chance of a fall.
I would strongly disagree, you definitely don't a 'real' knot of any kind on the rope path - the slip knot is way more than sufficient to trigger the device.
Is the backup knot more about triggering the device though, or is it to block against the device in case the device doesn't catch (this was my understanding, and I've read all of your posts)? Will a slip knot come out when slammed against the grigri/eddy/etc?
Jesus, the mouth breathing!
Dude filming is breathing hard as hell 😂
Tankyou matt great video.
now thats some heavy breathing
Great video!
Good video 👍. Minus Darth 😤
Cheers fella, great film
Used a modded grigri for years on maybe a couple of thousand pitches or so and it works tolerably, but the Eddy is sooo much better suited for the job from my perspective (ymmv). Definitely never looked back once it came on the market, but then everyone does need to sort out what works for themselves.
I'd be keen to see the setup with the Eddy. I haven't used one but I understand that they are about twice the weight. Did you find that it fed by itself without needing to use your hand to pull rope through?
Matt, I've been lead rope soloing multipitch trad with various techniques since '75 and it constitutes about 50-75% of my climbing in any given year. Here's a piece I wrote about what I do back in '07.
www.rockclimbing.com/Articles/Training_and_Technique/Roped_Solo_Free_Climbing_-_The_essence_of_self-reliance_one_path_among_many_675.html
I find the weight difference is inconsequential I've never noticed it at all. It does feed way, way better than a non-chest-mounted modded grigri (I can't stand anything against my chest / stomach that way). It feeds better because it has a rope path the reverse of a grigri and so long as both sides of the rope are hanging below the device is just feeds. I rarely have to intervene and when it does occasionally lock, it's a simple and easy thumb slide to unlock it.
Here's a shot of me using my rig:
www.supertopo.com/photos/35/9/472387_9952_L.jpg
and here's one of my routes I regularly lead with it:
www.supertopo.com/photos/33/17/453204_29506_XL.jpg
Didn't notice breathing like the air nazis in comments. Nice video, thanks for sharing. Rope soloed Castle Rock in Wisconsin long ago. Impromptu short climb of clove hitches on sketchy pro, a little down climbing finishing off with a short rappel on a single rope. This video looks like an up and over with a hike back down? Nice setup and climbing, stay safe.
Could you also use another ascending device to back up the gri gri on lead? Such and flipping the Croll and having it positioned above the grigri (similar to the top rope set up) instead of having the knots? I think the thing that just messes with me on this is getting over the fact that you are never really tied into the rope. Thank you for posting such a good video.
Cobra0911 the croll or traxion backup would not work like on top rope. Leading requires letting rope out not in.
There is a more solid backup option that I will post when I get the chance.
You know i see what you are saying lol. Cheers and Thanks again !
the man is a stone ninja
Interesting. Why not use a self-belay device anchored at the bottom? Maybe not scalable to lengthy routs, but could be a solution for shorter climbs.
I have tested it and it can work but there are a few reasons why not. Mainly, it is because if the rope isn't flaked perfectly - which is often the case if you dont have a nice ledge - then it can get jammed and you are unable to sort it out.
Nice! I wanna learn to climb with rope to do climbs like the Tetons
great video thanks man
Autoblock back up on the abseil might make sense.
What is with the gritty film sound & stalker breathing?
Great! now how would u do it on a hill I would climb as a child
Great demonstration video! Although that looks like an easy free solo route.
Back pack vs just leaving rope on ground? Using micro traction to keep tension off Grigri for dead rope side .
If you have a clean vertical cliff, hanging the rope works well. On climbs that wander and can get loops caught, or if there is a lot of wind, then I think there is an advantage to back packs. Getting a rope snag really sucks if you are on your own in alpine conditions. Using the micro trax and hanging the rope is great for short fixing on big wall climbs too. If I do it now, I also don't put the grigri upside down. I just have a smaller cache loop. Depends on the rope.
@@starasoris gotcha Ty for all the tips and insight, new climber getting into the sport so all the info helps :)
Awesome way to solo is still have a degree of safety...Any recent adjustments made to this setup recently?
The breathing man!
Can someone please tell me the purpose of the pre-tied slip knots on the free end of the rope in the back pack?
Very useful. I have been testing GriGri solo rope leading on simple terrain, and your video covers many of the issues. I am using a GriGri Plus, and needed to switch modes when I changed from leading to rappel.
In your video, which model GriGri are you using ?
Hi Chris, I am using a GriGri 2. I haven't used the Plus but it should be similar in the right mode.
Hey Matt, excellent video. I've seen it multiple times before my first and second rope solo and everything you said in the video made perfect sense. I haven't figured out a way to make the grigri self feed without modifying it. But i'll try and work out your arrangement. I have a couple of questions. Everyone talks about backup knots in rope solos. I haven't figured this one out yet. Could you maybe make a video about backup knots during a rope solo.
Your slip knots are blocking knots in case the grigri doesn't catch. But what if the grigri breaks or the carabiner clipped to the grigri breaks. I have read of an account where a DMM Belay Master broke on a fall with a grigri.
Could you just enlighten me about the backup knots. Finally, like someone commented below, would you advise using an alternative auto blocking device. If so, which one. I'm tying to see if the CAMP Matik, or the Edelrid Eddy or even the new Wild Country Revo can be used as a substitute. Not that I can afford any yet. But if I were to invest in something specifically for rope soloing, what would you recommend. I've heard of and seen how the Rock Exotica Soloist operates, is that something you would recommend?
So far I've completed two climbs including a multi pitch on rope solo, without falling. However, I'm concerned about the backup and would like to understand it better before I try anything harder. So, would appreciate a response.
Thanks for the message.
1) Grigri self feeding. You really do need the grigri to be held in position in order to self feed. The only mod that I have made is to glue on a loop to the plastic section. Another option I have seen done is to put a piece of strong thread or thin fishing line around where it opens. Just make sure that it doesn't interfere too much with it opening and closing.
I would love to find a device that will work well without a chest harness although on big climbs I almost always have a small pack that I can clip it to for self belaying when short fixing.
2) Backup Knots. The problem with backup knots that are clipped to you is that obviously you need to have some portion of the rope outside of the bag.
Having the biner break is probably more likely than having the grigri break as cross loading is very easy to do.
One solution that I have set up but never used or fall tested is to put a mallion on the waist loop of my harness and run the rope down through that or have a sling on the harness linked to a mallion on my should strap. The idea being that if all failed, it MAY catch you there. I have never tried fall testing a mallion blocking any kind of knot but it might be worth testing some time.
I tend to focus on avoiding the possibility of cross loading by keeping the grigri solidly positioned with rubber stoppers. Don't underestimate the usefulness of these cheap and simple things. They also help when you lean over and then stand up by stopping the grigri sliding around on the biner. I also velcro the biner to my lower harness loop. BTW. the Biner I use is oval and steel with a high cross load rating.
3) Unfortunately, I haven't tried any of the other device that you mentioned. I was very tempted to order a soloist because it looks clean. The only issue is that a Grigri is just so damn useful on a big wall or even a standard multi.
All the best with your experimentation.
I'm probably going to try my 3rd rope solo tomorrow. I will probably end up using the system in the same way tomorrow as I have in the past, but for any future attempts, I sure will use the rubber stoppers. I trust that you have tried many different ways to keep the grigri upright and this is a simple yet effective solution.
I am however considering using a rope to tie in the grigri through both loops of my harness (provided I use the rubber stops and the glued in small loop clipped to a chest harness equivalent to keep the grigri upright). That way, it eliminates the need for a carabiner and so no cross loading at all. The Soloist apparently is tied in to the harness in a similar fashion. Its just that it'll be a pain to untie the grigri and tie it back again and hence might slow the process of the climb itself.
But until I try this on an easier climb and fall test it, I probably will stick to using a steel carabiner.
Thanks again for the response.
This vid was very helpful
Thanks for the explanation. I like the simplicity of the system, without requiring a silent partner. However, why use slipknots on your draws instead of clove hitches? I just don't get it. Need 2 hands for the slipknots, and they pop. You only need 1 hand for a clove, and they stay in place, giving the system more security.
Hi Miguel, the slip knots are designed to pop so as to spread the load over the full length of rope if you fall. If you tie clove hitches to hold the rope in place, you risk a factor 2 fall when climbing above it until you clip the next draw. That would be a bad situation. Also, slip knots can be tied with 1 hand fairly easily.
If you want to tie a clove hitch at points where you know you are not going to fall right above, that can be useful, especially if your rope was running over sharp edges etc.
Anyone think about clipping a Kong Kisa to the first bolt to provide a softer catch and limit shock loading the anchor? The downside being you have more rope in the system which could lead to a ground fall if there'e too much slack.
dO YOU HAVE A VIDEO FOR BEGINNERS THAT WANT TO ROPE CLIMB?
Matt, excellent video Matt some ood explanations/reasoning. Q. why use a croll & not the gri-gri when seconding ?
Hi Rob,
I have seconded on a gri-gri and the problem is that it requires you to constantly pull through the slack. Takes the fun out of the climbing.
If I was only doing a bit of roped soloing on a big climb then I wouldn't bring a croll and would just use the grigri.
However, because of their usefulness on multipitches, I often just use 2 micro traxions to second. I also use one clipped above me for repacking the bag at the next pitch. i.e. I pull the rope up, using the traxion to hold it as I stuff the bag and tie the knots.
Each style of climb may be best suited to a different method of ascending. Gri-gri, grigri + jumar, jumars, croll or traxions. Whatever works best for you.
Hi Matt, thanks. wouldn't the gri-gri run freely if the rope were tethered/weighted at the bottom. I guess not feasible on multipitch ! Cheers
No. weighting the grigri below would simply act like the break hand and lock it off. That is why when leading, the cache loop can only be so big before the weight of the rope locks it off.
Why do you carry the rope with you and not leave it at the base of the climb? You can lead rope solo with the rope at the bottom of the climb. Is there any particular reason why you decide to carry it with you? It seems extra weight, although it gives you a little more control of it.
I like it. But what would be the setup if I want to leave my rope on the ground instead in the bag and climbing with it? Can you make a vdo on that too?
Shehryar khattak
The best way is to use a rope grab like a traxion on your gear loop or waist strap to take the weight. Then you just feed your cache loop from there. Hope that helps.
It's a miracle that you're still alive
thinking the same :)
Beautiful sounding birds where are you
Nathan Darval . Queensland Australia. Lots of birds.
Why would you put a stopper knot on the fig 8?
There is a wild boar somewhere
????
But how do you get the bolts into the rock?
stay at home :D
some really interesting points made, do you know if a grillion would work?
Good camera work Darth!
Have you ever taken a bit lead fall on the grigri?
6:40 please please somebody explain what that is
At about 4:05 there is an explanation on clipping to the Grigri.
Matthew Hunter thank you guess I was spacing out lol
Hi Matt, great vid, at the end after you have rappelled and are climbing using the jumar & microtraxion the rope looks like it is weighted, are you still attached to the bottom bolt or what do you use to weight the rope?
No. I don't have it still attached in any way. You need to be able to pull the rope cleanly afterwards for the next pitch. The fact that it hangs is just the weight of the rope. After about 5 metres it feeds fairly easily and the traxions flow fairly well.
At 6:40 I get extremely confused. You didn’t explain what your clipping the non-climbing carabiner into in the Grigri. There’s some extra piece on yours and you didn’t say anything about it.
You must have missed it. He does explain it starting at 3:46.
Newbie here and I'm not sure I understand what the pre-tied stopper knots do...
In case of a grigri malfunction such as can happen in an upside down fall or the lever being caught open, these knots will block the device. If you are fairly new to climbing, this technique is probably not suited to you for a while. A lot more can go wrong than normal lead climbing.
Ha makes more sense! No plans to try it, don't worry!
Does anyone else from Australia get really confused sometimes when you hear someone who's not an American, but just to make sure you watch a video of an American and then it clicks... kiwi...
I, for one, love the breathing
Excellent video. Are you familiar with the Silent Partner device? I was wondering if using the slip-knot method you show would work as a backup knot with it? I see in the SP manual they recommend tieing several backup knots (eg clove hitch) onto locking biners on the harness and having several big loops drooping down - which looks messy to me.
I've done top-rope soloing using a mictotraxion + microcender, but never leading.
Hi Troy, the slip knots that I use are designed to be blocking knots. The silent partner doesn't have any clean way of stopping the knots from moving through. They may well jam up the clove hitch but it would be messy.
It may be worth testing using a mailon to block a knot which can also be an extension to my system, but I am not sure where it would go because I think that with the silent partner, all of the rope is hanging below you.
I have never tested this catching a fall, but I do sometimes fix jugging lines using the same method that I showed in the video for taking up the tension on the quick draw. It may be possible to feed a bunch of rope into a cache loop for the silent partner and then periodically, with one hand untie, feed more and then retie the slip knot.
Something I did used to do was to use a micro traxion as a backup. Pretty easy to feed more rope into the system and lock off, but although we have tested falling on them, I would not want to take a large fall onto one. Then again, it is a backup and if you keep the cache small, it reduces the risk. But then you still have the same issue of where to place it and what to attach it to so that it doesn't smash against the SP.
Hope that there is something in that for you. Remember not to rush into lead soloing. It is much easier to mess yourself up than normal leading.
Thanks a lot for your reply. You're right, I see that the SP design is quite open around the drum so the slip knot wouldn't block well. I see on the 'multipitchclimbing' site (Ch 12: Going Solo - link below) a photo of using the SP with rope in a backpack (but says 'backup knot not shown').
I really like your system where backup slip knots can be just popped out easily at the rucksack strap, but would need to investigate the maillon idea thoroughly! Perhaps the rope could come from the backpack through a (small but very strong) maillon on the belay loop & still feed the SP.
multipitchclimbing.com/
You're quite right to advise caution: I always try to follow Whymper's advice to "do nothing in haste"!
Hi, the only thing that remained unclear is why do you do the knots in the rope when you coil it in the bag? Is it just to keep track how much rope is in the system?
fxdx they are backup knots to jam the grigri if it slips. please don't try this technique unless you are an experienced climber. grigris can fail under certain conditions with this configuration such as upside down falls.
Thanks. I wish I had seen this video before I did my first ever solo aid pitch on El Cap, had to learn along the way :) you got some really good tips here on efficiency!
To often you have the rope between your legs. Isn't this dangerous? (example timestamp: 12:21)
No. Not at all. It is dangerous to let the rope run behind your ankles which may cause you to flip upside down when you fall past your last piece. Having the rope between your legs is perfectly fine.
Why not use a "Petzl ASAP" fall arrester, a device that has been designed just for this purpose?
because that is a device over double the price of a grigri
@@samhenderson766 not for price. asap is not for dynamic climbing ropes.
ASAP 11-13 mm statik ipler için kullanım sınırı var. bu videoda lider tırmanıştan bahsediyor. Bunun dışında da faktörler var. (ipin rahat akması, ip ağırlığı, cihazın şok dayanımı).
Question on the back-up slip knots that are on the rope feeding out of the bag - if the Grigri were to fail locking up for some reason, these knots would all pop out, one by one. So they are not in fact back-up knots at all. Am I missing something here?
The slip knots come apart if you pull on both sides of the rope, not if something pushes up against it from the grigri side. Jamming them into something like the grigri only makes them tighter.
In addition to that, it normally only takes a small amount of resistance to lock a slipping grigri unless it is actually jammed open.
Anyone who wants to test it can hang up a maillon and do slip knot (in the correct direction) and stand on a foot loop in the rope on the other side. Even a very loose knot will jam up.
The correct way to tie them is to make a small loop and then tuck a bite through from the side away from the grigri.
Thanks for the quick reply Matthew - and great video! I was about to start chopping & drilling my grigri until seeing your video. A low angle test had it working super smoothly. I will give the slip knot a test and double check that having it slam into the chest 'biner or the grigri doesn't cause it to roll and come undone. Thanks again!
Shouldn't have doubted you - you're right on both accounts. I guess if someone did the slip knots backwards they could, theoretically, come undone, but I agree that by then they would have caused the grigri to cam shut (unless it was somehow jammed open, in which case it might be important to tie the slip knots in the right direction - probably worth a warning to tie them correctly).
Actually, doubting me is exactly what you should do. At least being skeptical;)
Great to see that you are experimenting with it all. If find that most lead soloists like to experiment. After all, no one up there to complain to if you get it wrong on a multi pitch.
Would love to hear you go with it all.
Exactly. And FYI getting a belay 'biner with cross loading protection (I use the Mammut "Crag Smart") eleviates the need for the added work on the 'biner (velcro and/or rubber stoppers) - when properly threaded (I can send you a pic if you want - can't seem to include an image here) the 'biner can't rotate at all, keeping it always in-axis on a load (but is is 10kn rated on cross loading anyway, which is more than enough unless using a static line to climb, even with a static self belay). Thanks again - your system makes me realize just how damn hard I was making rope solo leading on myself the last several years (usually had to rely on French freeing or even using a fifi just to get two hands on the grigri to keep feeding myself rope). If you ever get to Central Mexico (where I live), let me know...
Good video. I've been looking for a good system with either the grigri or the petzl microtraxion. What is the benefit of the slip knots on the rope as it feeds out of the bag to the non-climbing carabiners on the pack?
Marcus Ainsworth i think the non climbing crab is just a guide for the rope and the knots are a backup if the grigri didn't bite in a fall.
this is hectic! what happens if your in a crux and cant get a hand free to pull your knot out, your going to get stuck with nowhere to go!
dave Wetspot Charters you don’t have to use a knot you can buy a safety device. I personally don’t use a knot I just try not to fall.
17:57 I would like to know if toprope setup like that can cause wear on the harness due to the rope friction?
Hi. Nice video bro) 👍👍👍
Great Video Matt!!
Just one thing I'd change in the top rope set up is the micro traxion on top and the other device below. If you fall on that micro with that much slack it can rip through the rope.
I think the Petzl website has some good photos on the set up.
+killerbeeslaslo Thanks for the feedback. We also use microtractions for simulclimbing to protect the leader from the 2nd falling, and did some tests on them. We took a few factor 0.8 falls on them and it left only small marks on the rope, even though the climber bounced back a couple of feet.
Given that the croll must be used with a chest harness and also has teeth, and that the traxion is only a backup, I am happy using it that way around.
I think that I would be tempted to just use 2 micro or mini traxions rather than using the croll at all since they are more versatile on a big wall. But on a big wall you would normally jumar rather than 2nd anyway.
+Matthew Hunter Great, thanks for the info. Just thought I'd mention as i've had a few small falls on the microtraxion and the sheath doesn't look so good (ropes still fine though). I'm currently using a microcender as the back up and the micro traxion on the main, the cender is good if you need to quickly take the weight off the traxion.
Would have liked to see a demo fall.
We have done practice falls on it, but in this video I really don't want to convince people that it is safe to fall on a Grigri in this way because in some cases it might not work. This is more about setting up the overall system if you are already happy to lead on a Grigri.
Do you think it would work using a clove hitch to keep the rope from falling back down?
If you use a clove hitch then you are always risking a factor 2 fall scenario when you climb above it. I wouldn't do it unless there was little to no chance of falling before then next draw. The occasional clove hitch does at least add some backup, especially if your mind starts wondering what is happening down at the anchor.
@@starasoris Matt, Thank you for the quick response and good info. The video is well done very informative.
All the best,
Joe, from Massachusetts
Hi Matthew! great work, one or the most comprehensive expositions of this technique online... allow me two questions:
Some experienced friends of mine oppose to the croll. in their oppinion it "bites" into the rope far to agressively in case of a heavier fall. is this possible even if You are only using the device when top-roping? they even claim that besides destroying the ropes skin it can even get stucked with the rope (?)
What about leading with the Cinch? J Healy has a very clear oppinion about NOT using it, but doesn´t explain and I don´t quite get the difference to the grigri or the eddy...
At last, isn´t there a way to errase 99 out of 100 Darth Vader comments? The first one ist really funny, the rest just sucks! You guys did a great job in the vid!! Hello from sunny and rocky Spain! stay safe, Kornel
Hi Kornel, Thanks for the questions.
People tend to hear a lot of things about what device does what to ropes. I have taken plenty of top rope falls on a croll and haven't found a problem. I don't like the croll much because it requires a chest harness and so I mostly use 2 traxions these days. The idea is that a top rope fall should always be very low force. Just don't build up the slack if it doesn't feed well.
I haven't used a cinch but it mostly comes down to how well it will feed. I noticed that to feed rope with the cinch, you are meant to hold it in a certain position to make it go smoothly. I would like to have one to play with. Currently, I think the Wild Country Evo shows some promise but I haven't tried that either.
As for the Darth Vader comments, he certainly isn't fat or unfit. We climbed the Nose of El Capitan in 23 hours and the 5 pitch route in thi s video in under 9 minutes, so the comments are well off the mark, but I'll try to keep them removed ;)
Enjoy the Spanish winter.
thanks for the quick reply!!! and now... let´s climb ;)