Jay is not some street debater. His opponents actually need to focus when debating him; his arguments and critiques take effort to respond to. It is clear though that Jay's points slide right off Muslim Lantern's brain like water off of a duck's back
As someone who acts like a "Christian" representative he acted very immature, impatiently and kept interjecting. If he is sure about the truth and did his research he can just let the guy talk and tackle his points one bye one. Now he looked like a fool and embarrassed Christianity. Christianity teaches humbleness and humility. None of that was shown.
@@grantpopp9879 What argument? That the attributes of an entity disqualifies monotheism? So you having a height, a personality, or any certain characteristic means you are different persons in one. Come on bro, elevate your standards a bit.
Muslim Lantern is the most dishonest debater I've ever seen. Sneako was a horrible moderator too, muting Jay for a minute during his opening statement and then not giving him extra time despite doing the same multiple times for ML when he is interrupted for 2 seconds in speech. As for ML, this guy is the worst fallacy machine we have seen in the dawah scene it's insane; there is a reason why every debate he had today could not go past his opening statement before devolving into chaos.
If you think Muslims are gonna falter, Allah already told us that its not the eyes thats blinded but the hearts. We have zero issues with you not being a Muslim btw, but we do shake our heads in disbelieve when you can't see the simple truth.
@@bf.258 why would you say this in response to how much lying and disingenuity Mr. Lantern did here lol "even if you see our lies we will not falter!" cool bro, if that sounded impressive in your head
How to be a top muslim debator: 1. Ignore opponent 🙉 2. Fallacymaxxing 💪💪💪 3. Lies (permitted) 🐍 4. Smile like you're winning 🤡 5. Schoolboy level rhetoric 🤓
How to be a top Christian debater: 1. Totally ignore your scholars statements & scholarly work.🤫 2. Ignore what the Bible is stating (each Christian follows his own understanding) 3. Throw some Arabic words without understanding what they are, hoping to create mayhem to sound smart 😝 4. Turn part of your brain off that has to do with logic 😝😝😝🥸 5. Keep repeating 3 in 1 concept , hoping it will stick with people, No matter how many brain gymnastic you do, the image in your brain will always be 3 different images of GOD period.🤕 6. Get loud and aggressive, it will show you care, and people will believe you lol
1.lantern cooked him demolished him he never ignored opponent actually jay was do humiliated he had to interruput. 2.Yay Got debunked in every topic you christian can cry abt it. 3. Only one Who Lied is Jay. 4.He smiled cause he couldn't Believe how dumb jay is
It's just funny at this point to see the israelis level neighborhood after neighborhood... slaughtering muslim leader after leader and their only response is half assed artillery and whole ass tears. Will muslims ever fucking stand up for themselves or will they wage a retarded war against the entire west like bibi has trained them to do?😂
Jay: *gives detailed and thorough definition of the Trinity* ML: "so how do you define the Trinity? Will you accept my pigeonholed version of it for my tactic to work?"
Jay: “Do you believe the attributes are self existent or do they depend upon Allahs essence and amongst themselves in a dependence relationship?” *Awkward Silence* ML: “We don’t use this terminology so I won’t answer.”
Muslim lantern was being a deflecting slimy dishonest individual throughout the whole debate. And if you can’t see that you’re simply being ignorant to the truth
Im manichaean and I agree with the objections to the unitarian tawhid view, we ourselves have our own path of Christ being divine but not god. We still exist
Notice who mocks first btw 23:16 because he knows he's been getting caught deflecting and made look uneducated because he couldn't answer anything and then calls jay childish when he mocks back. And he never explained his position, just that he follows the quran 😂😂 ML please stop debating, give Islam a chance.
As someone who acts like a "Christian" representative he acted very immature, impatiently and kept interjecting. If he is sure about the truth and did his research he can just let the guy talk and tackle his points one bye one. Now he looked like a fool and embarrassed Christianity. Christianity teaches humbleness and humility. None of that was shown.
@CantIllaoiThat He spoke as an individual, don't do that. When muslims are nasty and disrespectful, we don't assume every muslim is like that... you're generalizing based on someone's own mannerisms. You can say they both acted like children, but ML was the fool cause he couldn't answer questions in this or the previous debate.
Common Islamic L. All Islam has been taking is Ls after Ls and it won’t ever end, the truth will set you free and Christ is the truth the way and the life and Mo the PDFile is not an prophet and therefore it’s illegitimate
@@مباركملفي islam used to be spelled I-S-L-A-M at this point it's I-S-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-
I dont think our priests are r**ing our kids. Or gay people being married 😂. How are we taking L's if christians are reverting to Islam or become atheists in so called "christian countries". History speaks for it self.
19:34 Muslim Lantern literally proves the case for a trinity. He says how our human knowledge and understanding of God is limited. Yet they still question how God can exist in three persons... smh
They do this all the time. Use the same argument when it suites them, yet argue against it when it doesn’t. The dissonance is maddening. Their either too indoctrinated or brainwashed to concede
You are a liar and you did not understand what he said - He says that man has attributes and that God has attributes, but the attributes of man are not the same as the attributes of God - God has perfect knowledge But anthropology is limited - This was a response to the Christian debater’s lack of understanding of examples and his claim that Muhammad Ali resembles God with his creation - I do not understand how you understand debates and how you claim to be victorious when you do not understand the words of a Muslim debater??? - You can see Muhammad Ali's response to the entire debate : ua-cam.com/video/Wf6PjbY9AB8/v-deo.html
He didn’t say our understanding of God is limited. In Islam God already told us who he is. We know and it makes logic. Christianity is confusing. One in three but when questioned won’t be able to give answers.
ML has no understanding of the complexity fallacy because he constantly uses it to critique jay on deeply theological questions that have answers that could fill entire books. He says "they run away from anything that is clear" when quoting the Bible. My question would be for ML, Is it clear in surah miriam that when Mohammad talks about Mary he calls her the SISTER OF AARON that we are to know hes speaking metaphorically and not literally (he doesnt clearly say that!)? Of course he would say its not simple he would then go on to say no no no when Muhammed calls Mary the sister of Aaron hes doing so because hes recognizing her as a holy woman.
Incorrect. You've used a false understanding to make a false interpretation. It's not because she's a holy woman. It's because she was named after the sister of Aaron.
@@TheStraightPath-px8mk naming her after the sister of Aaron and calling her the sister of Aaron is to separate things my Guy.😂 - it even says her father is Imran.. and historical her father is not Imran, the actually Mariam father has such name - Mary is not even from Moses, Aaron or Miriam tribe to call her the Daughter of Imran. Straight foolishness from your religion. All the explanation Muslims give to reconcile the inaccuracies in it is foolish.
That was probably on accident I mean he turned it on a few seconds later and it’s just his opening sentence, not like a point where someone got caught and he tried to help it or something lmao go cry more
@@TheOneAndOnlyJinglebiyes cuz pointing my mouse at jay, right clicking, pointing mouse at mute, clicking it, moving mouse away, left clicking it can be called an accident
So in case u guys dont know, Sneako and the Muslim candle had a debate set up with Andrew Wilsion. That debate didnt happen because Candle could not undestand logical falacies or make an arguement that would defend age of consent. That was not the only problem, Candle tried to change how the debate should go in the middle of the debate that really didnt happen. Sneako as a moderator failed and was bias... Nothing changes here either. He cant think beyond a script. He talks like this in his streams. Candle strawmans and strawmans and strawmans. Also, as you can see, Sneako does not understand the topic enough to be a moderator. Candle has shown he is low tier debator.
Lmao Wilson rage quitted cuz he couldn’t form a coherent argument that didn’t completely refute himself and Jay started crying at the end, yet christians will always claim victory. Open your eyes if you guys would actually make sense to unbiased people it wouldn’t be the most left religion on the globe by far
@@mohamedadnane2386 Absolutely cooked him he threw away the prophet and Allah, Quran said it came to confirm the scriptures yet you say its corrupt 2:41 "And believe in what I have sent down confirming that which is [already] with you, and be not the first to disbelieve in it. And do not exchange My signs for a small price, and fear [only] Me." And he sat there and lied the whole time crazy.
@@mohamedadnane2386 he was too low IQ to even understand the arguments, he kept bringing up Christ being "subordinate" to the father when Jay said 10 times he has a monarchical trinitarian view and he believes the Son is subordinate to the Father. That's just one example.
The first point: This Christian debater said clearly in the opening that the Church Fathers are united in the idea of the Trinity - But when Muhammad Ali responded to him, he began to shake and become afraid and did not make him speak - This debate proves that Christians are cowards and do not like anyone to speak. This was clear from Muhammad Ali’s calmness because he was right and the confusion of the Christian debater because of his fear of exposing his fraud. - The problem is that he said that (Muslim Lantern) - He says he doesn't want to answer, even though it is an answer, and tells him that God did not say about Himself what the man in the gray shirt claimed - The answer of the man in the gray shirt was that he said He doesn't want to answer - These are the ways of ignorant people who are afraid to respond and do not have any answers. When someone shocks them and tells them that he does not acknowledge his words at all, he begins to deceive people and make them believe that he does not want to answer. - I can't see winning but I can only see the fraud, the deceiver and the fear - The second point is that the same man in the gray T-shirt said that you say in terms of dependency and so on, but when he told him that I do not use them, he said that Jake uses them. Is Jake Islam, the Qur’an, or the Sunnah? We can ask the same question to Jake, where did you get these terms from in the first place? - Someone's statement is not proof of Islam - Number Three: When (Muslim Lantern) said to him “Give me five things about the Mu’tazilites,” he started to go senile because he spoke about what he did not know and said classic debates. I challenge him if he understood them. Then he said, “I do not have to introduce your schools.” - Why was nothing extracted from these classic debates except the position of the Mu’tazilites? This is not a search to achieve anything but truthfulness, but only to use it to confuse people. - Then the man in a gray shirt does not understand the examples that (Muslim Lantern) gives, and he gives examples in order to understand through the example and not liken the example to the attributes of God. - Except that there is nothing in reality that is devoid of attributes for you to attribute to God, and this is what he explained to him, and this is what all the scholars of the Sunnis and the community say, and we have nothing to do with the doctrine of theologians without evidence. - The question asked by (Muslim Lantern) was a clear question, and do not come and tell me that it is in his human nature and not divine, because Christ, according to the text, only proved knowledge of the divine essence, which is the Father, but he denied it from himself in every way and from the Holy Spirit, and why is the Holy Spirit neglected? In the text from the beginning, he is equal to them in divinity - The man in the gray T-shirt tried to respond, but even his response does not support Masih’s lack of knowledge of the hour, because there is nothing in the Bible to support his response. - Unfortunately, it is proven that the son is not equal to the father in everything, and this is polytheism and the opposite of monotheism. - He says that the Son declared in John chapters 5 and 6 that he is equal to the Father. Unfortunately, the Gospel of John says in chapter 5, verse 19: Then Jesus answered and said to them: “Most assuredly, I say to you, the Son can do nothing on his own except what He sees the father working. For whatever he does, the Son does likewise _ This is proof that Christ cannot do anything without the Father - Rather, I spoke in context: verse 30 proves that Christ is a messenger and not God, and that he does everything that the Father commands him to do as if he were his servant and not God, and this is what Muslims say: I cannot do anything on my own. As I hear, I will be judged, and my judgment is just, for I do not seek my own will, but the will of the Father who sent me. - This is Islam, surrender to the will of God - In the same chapter, he says that he is able to bring the dead to life because it is the Father who gave this thing, and this is what Muslims believe, that God gave Christ the ability to raise the dead, God willing: Gospel of John, chapter 5, verse 20: For the Father loves the Son and shows him everything that he does, and will show him Greater works than these, that you may marvel. - 21 For just as the Father raises the dead and gives life to them, so also the Son gives life to whom he will. - And this is only in the first 30 minutes or so, and you say that Muslims are afraid, but rather that you are cowards and cannot defend your belief. - Also, it seems that you did not see Muhammad Ali's review of the debate - ua-cam.com/video/Wf6PjbY9AB8/v-deo.html
No point in debating with people like this. You can argue all day with these dawah bros, and all they’ll do is deflect. Then they gaslight when you expose them for not answering the question. Also, idk how many times I’ve heard Dawah bros say, “Fallacies don’t matter.” Then the dawah fans in the comments will act as if they, “won,” the debate, because they have a cult mentality. It’s typical.
Anyone who calls his opponent a "doofus" in a moderated intellectual debate is an absolute insult to his own religion (Jay). So glad men like Jay arent representing Islam.
In the opening statements, Jay catches ML in a fallacy, and when Sneako tries to make it right by giving Jay a minute to respond, ML SURRENDERS and doesn't ask the question instead. Instantly won at that point.
Jay has so weak arguments and clearly Christians just want to conflate the oneness of allah with his attributes in oder to say ahha you have the same problem (trinity). What a losing strategy.
If the arguments are weak why couldn’t your boy answer? Why’d be have to pretend not to know the meaning of two different terms used and pretend not to know what an internal critique is? Why did he lie about what the Quran says? Do you think strawmans are winning strategies?
The muslim guy was unbelievably polite and patient he never once interrupted and answerd every singel question straight on, the Christian guy on the other hand was very disrespectful, dishonest and rude and he interrupted the muslim guy all the time. I dont know what you guys watched but clearly you are very dishonest or you watched scoobbbydooo
I agree with you because he is a coward and does not know the depth of the issues he is talking about - When (Muslim Lantern) said to him “Give me five things about the Mu’tazilites,” he started to go senile because he spoke about what he did not know and said classic debates. I challenge him if he understood them. Then he said, “I do not have to introduce your schools.”
@@Traveler012 I just assumed that’s your stance cause you’re appealing to how “nice” a guy is versus the case they present and if the Muslim guy was so nice why did he keep strawmanning?
I can’t really even take Muslim lantern debates seriously anymore. He’s been cooked so now the paradigm of dawah has shifted from sound arguments to let me just muddy the water with incoherent rambling and say multiple things covering a wide variety of topics spoken about and not spoken about to throw everyone off. Unfortunately for some young Christians and even young Muslims we can never get a true honest debate because of this deceit by Muslim lantern. And also Muslim lantern is very good at confusing the audience. And sneako just needs to let the grown ups talk and never be in charge of a debate ever again. He’s horrible. Not to mention muting jay for a solid 2 minutes and not mentioning it.
lier he didnot do that - What Muhammad Ali was trying to illustrate through the example of the black T-shirt is: Except that there is nothing in reality that is devoid of attributes for you to attribute to God, and this is what he explained to him in the minute: 9:40, and this is what all the scholars of the Sunnis and the community say, and we have nothing to do with the doctrine of theologians without evidence. - This is what he was explaining in the debate, but the man in the gray T-shirt did not give him a chance to speak because he is cowardly and afraid - As for minute 19:34, Muhammad Ali was clarifying : that man has attributes and that God has attributes, but the attributes of man are not the same as the attributes of God - God has perfect knowledge But anthropology is limited - This was a response to the Christian debater’s lack of understanding of examples and his claim that Muhammad Ali resembles God with his creation - I do not understand how you understand debates and how you claim to be victorious when you do not understand the words of a Muslim debater??? - You can see Muhammad Ali's response to the entire debate - ua-cam.com/video/Wf6PjbY9AB8/v-deo.html
He was using an annalogy to describe how arttibributes of something are not parts of somthing and are nothing like a seperste person like the trinity. Attributes describe what you are they are not anything more than that
@@wamid_aleaql Hey dummy, if created attributes are nothing like the attributes of God, then how does the analogy of the black shirt tell you anything about God? Also, is the shirt the same as it's blackness?
All these Muslim UA-camrs show how pathetic the Islamic position really is. They lie and deflect 24/7, it’s like they’re not allowed to be honest people who interact in good faith lol
@Christian_Armenian Jay Dyer doesnt give him 5 sec to talk before interrupting. Tell mee, how can you have a debate if you dont get the chance to formulate your point? They arent 2 drunk guys in a bar, there is a audience that needs to hear the points
@ Muslim lantern is slow and says something that is wrong and when jay dyer can’t interrupt? Muslim lantern is behind in the conversation so he says everything wrong. For example he says that co-equal means equal in every way, but that is what identical is and we don’t think the 3 persons are the same in every way because they are distinct
@ in 12:18 he says a straw man and then jay says that he is wrong. That is how a conversation is when 1 person is slow and not as smart as the person they are debating. Just admit that Muslim lantern lost he’s terrible at attacking Christianity and dosent understand our theology
The audience are matured enough to make their judgments. At least show them respect by allowing them to listen to both sides. Interrupting in debate is a sign of weakness.
There are three metaphors to understand the trinity which I explain for the muslim people here. You dont need to agree with it but at least you understand it. 1. There is one time line and on this timeline there are three different times: past, present and future. Each time is different in their roles but all have the same essence to be the time. Same with God of the bible who calls himself JHWH which includes all three timelines because you cant translate it in our language. It means "I was who I was", "I am who I am" and "I will who I will be" or according to the book of revelations: I will come. 2. God made us according to Genesis to his image. We are only what we are because we live in families. God loves community and calls his followers his children. So God himself is kind of a family made out of father, son and holy spirit. As our concept of family is father, mother and son who belong to the family name JHWH. Every family member has different roles but all belong to the same family JHWH. So all are God JHWH. But yes only the father is called mostly also in our human case with the last name because he is the authority in the family. But it doesnt mean that the son cant become the second authority if he matures. That is what Jesus is. He proved his position by becoming the lamb and sat next to his father after resurrection and rising to him. The holy spirit has the role of the mother. Through the holy spirit human beings become children of God by being spiritual born to Gods family. 3. Just imagine there is a game developer. He wants to program a pc game like our world. With sun and earht. Animals and digital humans. He codes it all and because he cant step in his pc to become a part of this world fo not destroying it he can code himself in this game. So his code become his avatar in this world. That is what John 1,1-3 and 14 is describing. Gods word became flesh. Through his word everything became. etc. The mouse is like the holy spirit. Cant be seen by the digital humans and can see everything. Has the power to do anything etc. And in the end it can move and live in the hearts of digital humans. That is the reason why the bible says that God lives in us christians. Hope that it made you understand it better. God bless.
Where would these people be without Islam. Literally allows all these “debaters” food to eat. Literally wouldn’t survive if they didn’t go against Islam
Jay was muted during opening. I saw someone say ALL Christian’s agree about the Trinity. When he said there are some coming around. He names SOME, not all. I see ML being dishonest. Complicating the scripture. ML staying it wasn’t a book when Jay PROVES it at the end. Towards the end, Jay is muted during the closing statement. You can find it easy. Jay is LITERALLY POINTING ML is wrong. This is why.
@alexandria1663 Yeah, I do find this belief system problematic. It reminds me of greek mythology with gods and demi gods. Essentially, claiming all source of power is the father but in the same breath, claim the father and the son are the same is confusing to me. Maybe im the problem and this pseudo monotheism makes a lot of sense
I don’t understand why ML insists on patronizing and being condescending to literally EVERYONE. BOTH he and his audience complain about ppl being disrespectful as if they just don’t see it and ML has no idea he’s even doing it. Is this sum culture dif I’m u aware of? He does it to the highest caliber of sincere opponents at the same rate.
Jay Dyer... not having basic morality of decent conversation!! I think Lantern is much beyond organised than this Jay man. @51:13 what is he imitating !!
jd: u have 99 gods ml:no one god with attribute just like me and my anger and my love u can't say they coexist with me jd:ur book say go and confirm ur book in the other scriptur ml: no allah clearly say that coran is the only uncorrupted book (48) And We have revealed to you, [O Muḥammad], the Book [i.e., the Qur’ān] in truth, confirming that which preceded it of the Scripture and as a criterion over it. So judge between them by what Allāh has revealed and do not follow their inclinations away from what has come to you of the truth. To each of you We prescribed a law and a method.[268] Had Allāh willed, He would have made you one nation [united in religion], but [He intended] to test you in what He has given you; so race to [all that is] good.[269] To Allāh is your return all together, and He will [then] inform you concerning that over which you used to differ jd:llllllll buuuuh buuuh
hahaha how can people say jay won? XDXD he keeps interupting and curving arround his answers. For sincere people its clear to see that jay 100% lost the debate on so many points
In debate class they always have a debate and vote on a winner-then the professor comes out and explains why they actually lost and EVERYONE feels stupid bc once you understand it, it feels like common sense. It’s not subjective at all you just need to learn why a bad argument is a bad argument and you’ll realize why. Jay didn’t exactly win, it’s more like ML just lost
The Christian guy is quite clear n precise and the Muslim guy won’t except the answer but refrase it in how he believes it is, making it like a trick question n answer 🙆🏼♂️🤷🏼♂️🤣😂😅be straight n honest n precise
Bro! Your ML guy was beyond embarrasing. First he needs to go brush up on his english speaking skills. He came into a debate with a prime philosophical mind like Jay Dyer and in the middle of the debate your muslim guy is asking for the meaning of a fallacy? 😂
@@evalsam7575 Jay Dyer can appeal to all the fallacies he wants to, but he's shamelessly outed himself in this video where he admits that The Father and Jesus are not equal in Knowledge, Power or Authority. The fact that Christians champion Dyer shows their ignorance. If I were you I'd be calling him out for being a heretic.
@@Paramount308 That’s exactly why Jay kept objecting MLs question. Lantern was trying to frame the trinity in a “this or” statement and it’s too complex of a topic to do that. He was trying to put words in Jay’s mouth and utterly failed, only exposing his snake like behavior and incompetence. It’s not about one being subservient to the other it’s the same god. I don’t understand what Muslims don’t understand about that. Also it’s not a question of who has more knowledge, power, authority. The same god acts in the trinity simultaneously therefore being all knowing and omnipotent. The one god exists simultaneously in three persons. You can call it a fallacy all you want, it doesn’t make it one nor illogical. You’re just blinded by your own bias.
لا اله الا الله وحده لا شريك له له الملك وله الحمد وهو على كل شيء قدير ومحمد عبده ورسوله صلى الله عليه وسلم لا اله الا الله سبحانه وتعالى عما يصفون واتوب اليه
Muslims don't want to address the inconsistencies in their own holy-book. If you were a native muslimite and talked arabic you would see the simple truth of Allah / God. Yeah..
The first point: This Christian debater said clearly in the opening that the Church Fathers are united in the idea of the Trinity - But when Muhammad Ali responded to him, he began to shake and become afraid and did not make him speak - This debate proves that Christians are cowards and do not like anyone to speak. This was clear from Muhammad Ali’s calmness because he was right and the confusion of the Christian debater because of his fear of exposing his fraud. - The problem is that he said that (Muslim Lantern) - He says he doesn't want to answer, even though it is an answer, and tells him that God did not say about Himself what the man in the gray shirt claimed - The answer of the man in the gray shirt was that he said He doesn't want to answer - These are the ways of ignorant people who are afraid to respond and do not have any answers. When someone shocks them and tells them that he does not acknowledge his words at all, he begins to deceive people and make them believe that he does not want to answer. - I can't see winning but I can only see the fraud, the deceiver and the fear - The second point is that the same man in the gray T-shirt said that you say in terms of dependency and so on, but when he told him that I do not use them, he said that Jake uses them. Is Jake Islam, the Qur’an, or the Sunnah? We can ask the same question to Jake, where did you get these terms from in the first place? - Someone's statement is not proof of Islam - Number Three: When (Muslim Lantern) said to him “Give me five things about the Mu’tazilites,” he started to go senile because he spoke about what he did not know and said classic debates. I challenge him if he understood them. Then he said, “I do not have to introduce your schools.” - Why was nothing extracted from these classic debates except the position of the Mu’tazilites? This is not a search to achieve anything but truthfulness, but only to use it to confuse people. - Then the man in a gray shirt does not understand the examples that (Muslim Lantern) gives, and he gives examples in order to understand through the example and not liken the example to the attributes of God. - Except that there is nothing in reality that is devoid of attributes for you to attribute to God, and this is what he explained to him and this is what all the scholars of the Sunnis and the community say, and we have nothing to do with the doctrine of theologians without evidence. - The question asked by (Muslim Lantern) was a clear question, and do not come and tell me that it is in his human nature and not divine, because Christ, according to the text, only proved knowledge of the divine essence, which is the Father, but he denied it from himself in every way and from the Holy Spirit, and why is the Holy Spirit neglected? In the text from the beginning, he is equal to them in divinity - The man in the gray T-shirt tried to respond, but even his response does not support Masih’s lack of knowledge of the hour, because there is nothing in the Bible to support his response. - Unfortunately, it is proven that the son is not equal to the father in everything, and this is polytheism and the opposite of monotheism. - He says that the Son declared in John chapters 5 and 6 that he is equal to the Father. Unfortunately, the Gospel of John says in chapter 5, verse 19: Then Jesus answered and said to them: “Most assuredly, I say to you, the Son can do nothing on his own except what He sees the father working. For whatever he does, the Son does likewise _ This is proof that Christ cannot do anything without the Father - Rather, I spoke in context: verse 30 proves that Christ is a messenger and not God, and that he does everything that the Father commands him to do as if he were his servant and not God, and this is what Muslims say: I cannot do anything on my own. As I hear, I will be judged, and my judgment is just, for I do not seek my own will, but the will of the Father who sent me. - This is Islam, surrender to the will of God - In the same chapter, he says that he is able to bring the dead to life because it is the Father who gave this thing, and this is what Muslims believe, that God gave Christ the ability to raise the dead, God willing: Gospel of John, chapter 5, verse 20: For the Father loves the Son and shows him everything that he does, and will show him Greater works than these, that you may marvel. - 21 For just as the Father raises the dead and gives life to them, so also the Son gives life to whom he will. - And this is only in the first 30 minutes or so, and you say that Muslims are afraid, but rather that you are cowards and cannot defend your belief. -
Regarding your first point dyer says “they unanimously teach the divinity of christ, the triad as well and the deity of the holy spirit”…”they teach what would become the doctrine of the trinity” - muslim lantern “responded” when sneako said “muslim lantern would you like to respond” already this debate has no proper structure whatsoever. It seems that sneako forgot that Muslim Lantern needed to begin with an opening statement. Muslim Lantern does the mistake of asking a question and expecting an answer in his opening statement. This disrupts the structure of the argumentation. That is why Dyer does not want to answer as not a proper way to begin this debate, since it wasn’t focused on an opening statement. - Muslim Lantern is then adamant on a definition of the trinity after Dyer had already offered a monarchical trinitarian definition. Unfortunately muslim lantern does not understand what “monarchy” means. Therefore assuming a definition in place of dyer’s saying the trinity is “co-equal and co eternal” after dyer had already provided a concise definition. - Muslim lantern says that the verses in John were use by Jay dyer to prove the doctrine of the trinity, misquoting dyer when he said “jesus shared the same essence with the father”. The verse (19)which you quote where the son does what the father does is proving the same divine will being the same because they share the same essence. - Christ therefore does what the father does as he shares the same essence. Does not mean that he isn’t God. It is that he shares the same divine will, not to be confused with “doing the will of God” like we are called to do, (jews,muslims, christians) - This debate proves that Muslims don’t know argumentation, nor know epistemology, and its criteria, or logical fallacies as well. Have in mind that understanding logical fallacies and proper epistemic criteria is necessary to have a proper debate.
Allah's mercy is not equal to his wrath, so then those attributes can't be apart of Allah. This is your logic. Distinctions within God don't entail separation.
Tawhid means one and only God, trinity means three in one. So a bunch of wise guys in the comments believe one hour of blabbering by a trinitarian proves God is not one but three in one? And he won the debate 😂😂😂 yayyy now give him a medal. Will not make the Earth flat if he says so.
Question: So is the Quran an attribute of Allah, and does it have its own Consciousness? I ask because the Hadith says " it's a little pale colored man" and that " it will intercede for Muslims at the Judgement?"
@@TheStraightPath-px8mk which one is weak the one that says that the Quran is a pale man , or the one that says that it will intercede for Muslims? Also there are many Hadiths that say that the Quran will both "intercede and testify" on the day of judgement, are you saying that all of those Hadiths are weak, or are you referring to just 1, because I believe there are many strong Hadiths that say the Quran will both "intercede and testify for Muslims" to Allah.... Do these strong hadiths, indicate that the Quran has a Consciousness, independent from Allah?
@@LuckyLuchiano-g8o "Quran"literally means recitation in Arabic. In the religious snese its Gods words. There are several hadiths that attribute testimony from all sorts of things you interact with on the day of judgment. In the case of the of the testomnial of the Quran, its not refering to a personification of a book turning into a man (that was a fabricated/weak hadith) it is refreing to your relationship with Gods words. Did you recite them, abandon them, apply them them, or teach them. That relationship with Gods words will serve as a testimante for or against you on the day of judgment.
Lmao Jay gives opening statement on his stance. Muslim Lantern proceeds to asks questions and put words in Jays mouth lmfao why can’t a Muslim every just give their position? Oh right because their religion only works with tricks and word play.
I think there was some mis understanding. Both parties gives their points of view in the opening statements without questions. The questions should have happened after the opening statements during the debate.
yall don’t know how discord works. Sneako isnt muting him. See the border that flashes as people speaks? if the person is muted it won’t do that && there will be a small mute symbol in their facecam. Could be the upload. Instant finger pointing. May God guide you.
Muslim latern is too clever for jay .he know how jay hypocrite not to debate but coming for trolling or roasting islam . You can't understand trinity in 1000 years jusy forcing verses of bible to making trinity .
Behold! Allah has silenced Dyer's opening monologue so we can ignore his definitions and positions. This is a miracle which proves the quran! AllHamToAllah 🐷 ☪️
Okay..because of muslim lantern at 16mins Islam takes a big L..JDyer gave 5 min and he clearly didn't understand or maybe he did because he seems to bring a dishonest games to these debates..this my 2nd one after Andrew Wilson and lost in translation is what I'm going to call his game..he can't go toe to toe..his people should get him to stand down because thats a win for christians..and sneako is no moderator hes giving muslim a free pass for this dude to want to attack without earning it.👎
It's simple, attribute is not like 3 person in one period. if you want to force it and say it is, there is nothing we can do for you, you are brain washed.
Its a double standard. You say the attributes are distinct part of God without composition or separations, we say the persons are distinct without composition or separation. It's up to you to show how our position is a contradiction and your's isn't. You don't get to just say "it just is" because that's being arbitrary and ad hoc and by committing these fallacies you lose the debate.
It’s so hard to continue watching Lantern try to play it off that he’s the respectful one, makes up a strawman, and says Jay is wrong off those strawmans. Wants to trap his opponent in “simple questions” so he can manipulate the answers. This guy is really pathetic
Muslims :Bible is corrupted Muslims two seconds later :Bible proves Islam I thought it was corrupt ? Muslims :not it’s good here but not where it disproves Islam 🤣🤣🤣 ⭕️⭕️⭕️⭕️⭕️
These comments are biased AF. How is this the end of Muslim Lantern?? Jay was acting very childish and using the tactic of constantly interrupting. Every time Muslim Lantern asks him an question Jay deflects it was an absolute nonesense argument. I have to give the W to ML. Jay;s arguments were irrelivent and was starwmannig.
Jay wasn't deflecting. He didn't answer some questions straight away because he answered them in the opening statement. But for some reason Sneako muted him for a portion of it. For example ML said john 17:3, but if he listened to Jay, and if he knew what monarchical trinitarianism is, he wouldn't have asked🤦🏻♂️ And also ML said sum ab mark 13, Basil answers that. So pretty much ML just doesn't underatand Jay's position and thats why he made pretty bad arguements, and in the opening statement he wanted jay to "submit" to his idea of the Trinity which is not as detailed as Jay's, because that definition can allow an arguement where equal must mean equal in every sense
@@novak713 so what do u think is bible is corrupted or not , or it doesn't matter. Seems to me easy life if someone/son of god has already died for my sins. So I'll do as I wish according to my subjective views.
Why didnt ML answer if the attributes possess aseity within themselves? Thats actually relevant to the debate because if he says yes he has multiple necessary beings and belives in multiple Gods.
the biasesness in this comment section the christian in this debate is attacking the muslim guy non stop no good argument and his knowledge on chrstianinty and islam are limited
His non stop attacks are him just trying to get ML to answer a single question. ML spends the entire time obfuscating, deflecting, dawah scripting. Christians have actually refined their arguments into absolute kill shots against Islam and have made all of your internet apologists look silly over the last year. All of the Mohamadens coping in the comments because you can't see past your cult. Keep coping dude, or you can just accept the love and deity of Christ.
Lantern is not a good debater but the christian lost the debate with his premise. How can you start with thw position that trinity isnt philosophically derived and is explicit
@@slavecrusher6245 nah im not here to pick the president of the debate club. Im listening to the merits of each argument independent of the speaker to make my own informed thoughts. Thats the true value of a debate
He has done hours of videos on this topic and addressed it in the video. The Father is true God by predication because He is the source of shared divinity in the trinity. A river has a source middle and end, but the middle and end are no less part of the same single river.
![Unitarian & Karen vs Jay Dyer | [heated] debate on authority & Trinity](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/-gPXnR6BmrU/mqdefault.jpg)
![Unitarian & Karen vs Jay Dyer | [heated] debate on authority & Trinity](/img/tr.png)
Jay is not some street debater. His opponents actually need to focus when debating him; his arguments and critiques take effort to respond to. It is clear though that Jay's points slide right off Muslim Lantern's brain like water off of a duck's back
yeah this was impromptu also
@@venomouswolfJay dyers comedian status makes him underestimated
You just summed up all muslims who engaged in debate. All of them do this. No exception
As someone who acts like a "Christian" representative he acted very immature, impatiently and kept interjecting. If he is sure about the truth and did his research he can just let the guy talk and tackle his points one bye one. Now he looked like a fool and embarrassed Christianity. Christianity teaches humbleness and humility. None of that was shown.
@@grantpopp9879 What argument? That the attributes of an entity disqualifies monotheism? So you having a height, a personality, or any certain characteristic means you are different persons in one. Come on bro, elevate your standards a bit.
Muslim Lantern is the most dishonest debater I've ever seen. Sneako was a horrible moderator too, muting Jay for a minute during his opening statement and then not giving him extra time despite doing the same multiple times for ML when he is interrupted for 2 seconds in speech. As for ML, this guy is the worst fallacy machine we have seen in the dawah scene it's insane; there is a reason why every debate he had today could not go past his opening statement before devolving into chaos.
The next moosloom debater will find a way to be more dishonest
If you think Muslims are gonna falter, Allah already told us that its not the eyes thats blinded but the hearts. We have zero issues with you not being a Muslim btw, but we do shake our heads in disbelieve when you can't see the simple truth.
Jay said he didn’t want to debate because he would just keep getting muted and booted. He was right.
@@bf.258christianity is the truth
@@bf.258 why would you say this in response to how much lying and disingenuity Mr. Lantern did here lol
"even if you see our lies we will not falter!" cool bro, if that sounded impressive in your head
How to be a top muslim debator:
1. Ignore opponent 🙉
2. Fallacymaxxing 💪💪💪
3. Lies (permitted) 🐍
4. Smile like you're winning 🤡
5. Schoolboy level rhetoric 🤓
How to be a top Christian debater:
1. Totally ignore your scholars statements & scholarly work.🤫
2. Ignore what the Bible is stating (each Christian follows his own understanding)
3. Throw some Arabic words without understanding what they are, hoping to create mayhem to sound smart 😝
4. Turn part of your brain off that has to do with logic 😝😝😝🥸
5. Keep repeating 3 in 1 concept , hoping it will stick with people, No matter how many brain gymnastic you do, the image in your brain will always be 3 different images of GOD period.🤕
6. Get loud and aggressive, it will show you care, and people will believe you lol
1.lantern cooked him demolished him he never ignored opponent actually jay was do humiliated he had to interruput.
2.Yay Got debunked in every topic you christian can cry abt it.
3. Only one Who Lied is Jay.
4.He smiled cause he couldn't Believe how dumb jay is
I know smiling because we are upon the truth annoying you 😂because you cannot smile because you know your religion doesn't make any sense 😂
It's just funny at this point to see the israelis level neighborhood after neighborhood... slaughtering muslim leader after leader and their only response is half assed artillery and whole ass tears. Will muslims ever fucking stand up for themselves or will they wage a retarded war against the entire west like bibi has trained them to do?😂
@@PorkoIisyou are literally so dumb holy sh!t lmao
Jay: *gives detailed and thorough definition of the Trinity*
ML: "so how do you define the Trinity? Will you accept my pigeonholed version of it for my tactic to work?"
Christians are allergic to logic
Jay: “Do you believe the attributes are self existent or do they depend upon Allahs essence and amongst themselves in a dependence relationship?”
*Awkward Silence*
ML: “We don’t use this terminology so I won’t answer.”
Couse we don't lol study our belive lil bro
@@mohamedadnane2386Study English lil bro.
@@Hermes-ti4nu if this ur level of response no wonder you think jay won lol
@@mohamedadnane2386 so how do the attributes of allah exist within allah?
And then he went back and said he never said that
Muslim lantern was being a deflecting slimy dishonest individual throughout the whole debate. And if you can’t see that you’re simply being ignorant to the truth
Lol. 😂😂. Muslim Lerntern is won
@@Pope1111rh learn to speak english before your 59 iq brain decides to make you comment something idiotic
@@Pope1111rhcope harder
Im manichaean and I agree with the objections to the unitarian tawhid view, we ourselves have our own path of Christ being divine but not god. We still exist
@@DM5550Zgoofy ahh
Notice who mocks first btw 23:16 because he knows he's been getting caught deflecting and made look uneducated because he couldn't answer anything and then calls jay childish when he mocks back. And he never explained his position, just that he follows the quran 😂😂 ML please stop debating, give Islam a chance.
As someone who acts like a "Christian" representative he acted very immature, impatiently and kept interjecting. If he is sure about the truth and did his research he can just let the guy talk and tackle his points one bye one. Now he looked like a fool and embarrassed Christianity. Christianity teaches humbleness and humility. None of that was shown.
@CantIllaoiThat He spoke as an individual, don't do that. When muslims are nasty and disrespectful, we don't assume every muslim is like that... you're generalizing based on someone's own mannerisms. You can say they both acted like children, but ML was the fool cause he couldn't answer questions in this or the previous debate.
@@CantIllaoiThathe kept interrupting and interjecting bc ML kept lying and twisting Jays words off Jays not gonna let him do that
Jay mocked him first 😂
Common Islamic L. All Islam has been taking is Ls after Ls and it won’t ever end, the truth will set you free and Christ is the truth the way and the life and Mo the PDFile is not an prophet and therefore it’s illegitimate
You Delusional 😂
@@مباركملفيthe irony...
@@مباركملفي islam used to be spelled I-S-L-A-M
at this point it's I-S-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-
@@مباركملفيyou’re projecting…
I dont think our priests are r**ing our kids. Or gay people being married 😂. How are we taking L's if christians are reverting to Islam or become atheists in so called "christian countries". History speaks for it self.
Did he literally mute Jay in the middle of his opening statement?
You can see the unedited on Jays channel.
He did, very conveniently
Typical tactic used by Muslims to defend their false prophet and faith.
Working on an edit with verses on screen - Islam is so cooked
Doing God’s work, thank you brother
In ur dreams ?? Lol
@@DANtheMANofSIPAdidnt your god say that if you get slapped, put the other cheek out ? 😂 Hypocritical Christians
@@setayeshsaid680bring the argument what made u think ML won and let's test it here
@mudaaa1015 why? He's only here to throw rocks and kiss the black stone
19:34 Muslim Lantern literally proves the case for a trinity. He says how our human knowledge and understanding of God is limited. Yet they still question how God can exist in three persons... smh
They do this all the time. Use the same argument when it suites them, yet argue against it when it doesn’t. The dissonance is maddening. Their either too indoctrinated or brainwashed to concede
Human knowledge is limited, that doesn’t mean we can’t understand the basic concept of god, what kind of logic is that?
@@TheOneAndOnlyJinglebiyou wasted calories typing that brainrot
You are a liar and you did not understand what he said
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He says that man has attributes and that God has attributes, but the attributes of man are not the same as the attributes of God
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God has perfect knowledge
But anthropology is limited
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This was a response to the Christian debater’s lack of understanding of examples and his claim that Muhammad Ali resembles God with his creation
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I do not understand how you understand debates and how you claim to be victorious when you do not understand the words of a Muslim debater???
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You can see Muhammad Ali's response to the entire debate : ua-cam.com/video/Wf6PjbY9AB8/v-deo.html
He didn’t say our understanding of God is limited. In Islam God already told us who he is. We know and it makes logic. Christianity is confusing. One in three but when questioned won’t be able to give answers.
Lantern committed 54 fallacies in this debate. Dude relies on slimey scummy tactics that don’t work with seasoned debaters like Jay.
Logic is haram 😂😂😂😂
ML has no understanding of the complexity fallacy because he constantly uses it to critique jay on deeply theological questions that have answers that could fill entire books. He says "they run away from anything that is clear" when quoting the Bible. My question would be for ML, Is it clear in surah miriam that when Mohammad talks about Mary he calls her the SISTER OF AARON that we are to know hes speaking metaphorically and not literally (he doesnt clearly say that!)? Of course he would say its not simple he would then go on to say no no no when Muhammed calls Mary the sister of Aaron hes doing so because hes recognizing her as a holy woman.
Jesus isn’t God lmao
But the problem with that is Aaron wasn’t Holy.
-and further going that it says Mary is the Daughter of Imran and his wife ….
Incorrect. You've used a false understanding to make a false interpretation. It's not because she's a holy woman. It's because she was named after the sister of Aaron.
@@TheStraightPath-px8mk naming her after the sister of Aaron and calling her the sister of Aaron is to separate things my Guy.😂
- it even says her father is Imran.. and historical her father is not Imran, the actually Mariam father has such name
- Mary is not even from Moses, Aaron or Miriam tribe to call her the Daughter of Imran. Straight foolishness from your religion.
All the explanation Muslims give to reconcile the inaccuracies in it is foolish.
@@Akhgy You've provided absolutely no evidence any sound reasoning your fallacious claims. I have no reason to pay you attention.
3:11 what is that snaky behavior muting him
No mute on that section of the other stream. Sneako showed his fear with that one.
B'coz the mouth very noisy 🤣
That was probably on accident I mean he turned it on a few seconds later and it’s just his opening sentence, not like a point where someone got caught and he tried to help it or something lmao go cry more
@@TheOneAndOnlyJinglebiyes cuz pointing my mouse at jay, right clicking, pointing mouse at mute, clicking it, moving mouse away, left clicking it can be called an accident
@@novak713 in muslim world its called a miracle and proof of the quran
So in case u guys dont know, Sneako and the Muslim candle had a debate set up with Andrew Wilsion. That debate didnt happen because Candle could not undestand logical falacies or make an arguement that would defend age of consent. That was not the only problem, Candle tried to change how the debate should go in the middle of the debate that really didnt happen. Sneako as a moderator failed and was bias...
Nothing changes here either. He cant think beyond a script. He talks like this in his streams. Candle strawmans and strawmans and strawmans. Also, as you can see, Sneako does not understand the topic enough to be a moderator.
Candle has shown he is low tier debator.
Lmao Wilson rage quitted cuz he couldn’t form a coherent argument that didn’t completely refute himself and Jay started crying at the end, yet christians will always claim victory. Open your eyes if you guys would actually make sense to unbiased people it wouldn’t be the most left religion on the globe by far
Lol this muslim got destroyed.
Show where pls
@@mohamedadnane2386 Absolutely cooked him he threw away the prophet and Allah, Quran said it came to confirm the scriptures yet you say its corrupt 2:41 "And believe in what I have sent down confirming that which is [already] with you, and be not the first to disbelieve in it. And do not exchange My signs for a small price, and fear [only] Me." And he sat there and lied the whole time crazy.
@@mohamedadnane2386 he was too low IQ to even understand the arguments, he kept bringing up Christ being "subordinate" to the father when Jay said 10 times he has a monarchical trinitarian view and he believes the Son is subordinate to the Father. That's just one example.
Or 1+1+1?
The first point: This Christian debater said clearly in the opening that the Church Fathers are united in the idea of the Trinity
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But when Muhammad Ali responded to him, he began to shake and become afraid and did not make him speak
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This debate proves that Christians are cowards and do not like anyone to speak. This was clear from Muhammad Ali’s calmness because he was right and the confusion of the Christian debater because of his fear of exposing his fraud.
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The problem is that he said that (Muslim Lantern)
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He says he doesn't want to answer, even though it is an answer, and tells him that God did not say about Himself what the man in the gray shirt claimed
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The answer of the man in the gray shirt was that he said
He doesn't want to answer
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These are the ways of ignorant people who are afraid to respond and do not have any answers. When someone shocks them and tells them that he does not acknowledge his words at all, he begins to deceive people and make them believe that he does not want to answer.
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I can't see winning but I can only see the fraud, the deceiver and the fear
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The second point is that the same man in the gray T-shirt said that you say in terms of dependency and so on, but when he told him that I do not use them, he said that Jake uses them. Is Jake Islam, the Qur’an, or the Sunnah? We can ask the same question to Jake, where did you get these terms from in the first place?
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Someone's statement is not proof of Islam
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Number Three: When (Muslim Lantern) said to him “Give me five things about the Mu’tazilites,” he started to go senile because he spoke about what he did not know and said classic debates. I challenge him if he understood them. Then he said, “I do not have to introduce your schools.”
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Why was nothing extracted from these classic debates except the position of the Mu’tazilites? This is not a search to achieve anything but truthfulness, but only to use it to confuse people.
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Then the man in a gray shirt does not understand the examples that (Muslim Lantern) gives, and he gives examples in order to understand through the example and not liken the example to the attributes of God.
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Except that there is nothing in reality that is devoid of attributes for you to attribute to God, and this is what he explained to him, and this is what all the scholars of the Sunnis and the community say, and we have nothing to do with the doctrine of theologians without evidence.
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The question asked by (Muslim Lantern) was a clear question, and do not come and tell me that it is in his human nature and not divine, because Christ, according to the text, only proved knowledge of the divine essence, which is the Father, but he denied it from himself in every way and from the Holy Spirit, and why is the Holy Spirit neglected? In the text from the beginning, he is equal to them in divinity
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The man in the gray T-shirt tried to respond, but even his response does not support Masih’s lack of knowledge of the hour, because there is nothing in the Bible to support his response.
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Unfortunately, it is proven that the son is not equal to the father in everything, and this is polytheism and the opposite of monotheism.
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He says that the Son declared in John chapters 5 and 6 that he is equal to the Father. Unfortunately, the Gospel of John says in chapter 5, verse 19: Then Jesus answered and said to them: “Most assuredly, I say to you, the Son can do nothing on his own except what He sees the father working. For whatever he does, the Son does likewise
_
This is proof that Christ cannot do anything without the Father
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Rather, I spoke in context: verse 30 proves that Christ is a messenger and not God, and that he does everything that the Father commands him to do as if he were his servant and not God, and this is what Muslims say: I cannot do anything on my own. As I hear, I will be judged, and my judgment is just, for I do not seek my own will, but the will of the Father who sent me.
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This is Islam, surrender to the will of God
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In the same chapter, he says that he is able to bring the dead to life because it is the Father who gave this thing, and this is what Muslims believe, that God gave Christ the ability to raise the dead, God willing: Gospel of John, chapter 5, verse 20: For the Father loves the Son and shows him everything that he does, and will show him Greater works than these, that you may marvel.
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21 For just as the Father raises the dead and gives life to them, so also the Son gives life to whom he will.
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And this is only in the first 30 minutes or so, and you say that Muslims are afraid, but rather that you are cowards and cannot defend your belief.
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Also, it seems that you did not see Muhammad Ali's review of the debate
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ua-cam.com/video/Wf6PjbY9AB8/v-deo.html
No point in debating with people like this. You can argue all day with these dawah bros, and all they’ll do is deflect. Then they gaslight when you expose them for not answering the question. Also, idk how many times I’ve heard Dawah bros say, “Fallacies don’t matter.” Then the dawah fans in the comments will act as if they, “won,” the debate, because they have a cult mentality. It’s typical.
I answered his question when he asked “ldgjkshwsnciekdj coequal” hahaha
As someone with no bias, Muslim Lantern quite easily won
Muslim lantern won the
fallacy#1 👎
Lol. What an irony.
@@EAD1142soooo bitter 😂😂😂😂😂😂
Anyone who calls his opponent a "doofus" in a moderated intellectual debate is an absolute insult to his own religion (Jay). So glad men like Jay arent representing Islam.
This was like someone with phd debating a kindergartener. You can tell when someone is behind someone intellectually in a conversation
Lmao. I didn't know you guys were so sensitive.
In the opening statements, Jay catches ML in a fallacy, and when Sneako tries to make it right by giving Jay a minute to respond, ML SURRENDERS and doesn't ask the question instead.
Instantly won at that point.
Jay has so weak arguments and clearly Christians just want to conflate the oneness of allah with his attributes in oder to say ahha you have the same problem (trinity). What a losing strategy.
If the arguments are weak why couldn’t your boy answer? Why’d be have to pretend not to know the meaning of two different terms used and pretend not to know what an internal critique is? Why did he lie about what the Quran says? Do you think strawmans are winning strategies?
@@alexandria1663bro shut up lied about the Quran😂😂😂
A Muslim listens quietly, but a Christian does not let you get a word in...
sneako is such a snake for that mute
Lol bro jay won't shut up and stop crying the muslim didn't talk in his time and jay kept barking and crying he had to be muted lol
@@mohamedadnane2386No. Sneako muted Jay during his opening statement.
"OMG, Jake wont shut up during his opening statement!! Jake wont stop crying!!" 😭 @@mohamedadnane2386
@@mohamedadnane2386
"I'm gonna ask you questions and say you're interrupting when you try to answer or correct me when I lie about your answer"
@@bigol9223yes if you answer in the middle of the question
The muslim guy was unbelievably polite and patient he never once interrupted and answerd every singel question straight on, the Christian guy on the other hand was very disrespectful, dishonest and rude and he interrupted the muslim guy all the time. I dont know what you guys watched but clearly you are very dishonest or you watched scoobbbydooo
I agree with you because he is a coward and does not know the depth of the issues he is talking about
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When (Muslim Lantern) said to him “Give me five things about the Mu’tazilites,” he started to go senile because he spoke about what he did not know and said classic debates. I challenge him if he understood them. Then he said, “I do not have to introduce your schools.”
More lies and cope from the pagan muhammadan
So you don’t care that your guy didn’t even acknowledge different schools of thought?
@nayannkhandelwal4434 who is "my guy" i dont know any of these people never met them or talked to them in my life lol.
@@Traveler012 I just assumed that’s your stance cause you’re appealing to how “nice” a guy is versus the case they present and if the Muslim guy was so nice why did he keep strawmanning?
I can’t really even take Muslim lantern debates seriously anymore. He’s been cooked so now the paradigm of dawah has shifted from sound arguments to let me just muddy the water with incoherent rambling and say multiple things covering a wide variety of topics spoken about and not spoken about to throw everyone off. Unfortunately for some young Christians and even young Muslims we can never get a true honest debate because of this deceit by Muslim lantern. And also Muslim lantern is very good at confusing the audience. And sneako just needs to let the grown ups talk and never be in charge of a debate ever again. He’s horrible. Not to mention muting jay for a solid 2 minutes and not mentioning it.
tell me how he is wrong then, kiddo
Muslim lantern W
Said no one ever
@@doomslayer3076Muslim Lantern W
@@remiw35 Said no one ever
@@fujikoJP14 literally just said it
LMAO. Anyone who says that wet wipe ML won needs to do an IQ test and perhaps start collecting government checks for mental disability
Muslims "opening statement" was a failed rebuttal. Ofc Jay will correct him. Why not make a point for Islamic doctrine of tawheed?
If you need to mute your opponent's opening statement to get a win - you're on the losing team!
Jesus is God. The Trinity is true. ☦
When you can't compare allah to creation..but you use creation as part of your analogy to describe allah 😮😮
lier he didnot do that
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What Muhammad Ali was trying to illustrate through the example of the black T-shirt is:
Except that there is nothing in reality that is devoid of attributes for you to attribute to God, and this is what he explained to him in the minute: 9:40, and this is what all the scholars of the Sunnis and the community say, and we have nothing to do with the doctrine of theologians without evidence.
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This is what he was explaining in the debate, but the man in the gray T-shirt did not give him a chance to speak because he is cowardly and afraid
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As for minute 19:34, Muhammad Ali was clarifying : that man has attributes and that God has attributes, but the attributes of man are not the same as the attributes of God
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God has perfect knowledge
But anthropology is limited
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This was a response to the Christian debater’s lack of understanding of examples and his claim that Muhammad Ali resembles God with his creation
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I do not understand how you understand debates and how you claim to be victorious when you do not understand the words of a Muslim debater???
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You can see Muhammad Ali's response to the entire debate
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ua-cam.com/video/Wf6PjbY9AB8/v-deo.html
He was using an annalogy to describe how arttibributes of something are not parts of somthing and are nothing like a seperste person like the trinity. Attributes describe what you are they are not anything more than that
@@wamid_aleaql Hey dummy, if created attributes are nothing like the attributes of God, then how does the analogy of the black shirt tell you anything about God?
Also, is the shirt the same as it's blackness?
All these Muslim UA-camrs show how pathetic the Islamic position really is. They lie and deflect 24/7, it’s like they’re not allowed to be honest people who interact in good faith lol
The only thing i got from this debate was that Jay Dyer is a child that cant shut his mouth when his opponent is speaking
In a debate the two people are supposed to talk back and forth. Muslim lantern can’t debate so he wants 1-2 minutes to just talk and talk
@Christian_Armenian Jay Dyer doesnt give him 5 sec to talk before interrupting. Tell mee, how can you have a debate if you dont get the chance to formulate your point? They arent 2 drunk guys in a bar, there is a audience that needs to hear the points
@ Muslim lantern is slow and says something that is wrong and when jay dyer can’t interrupt? Muslim lantern is behind in the conversation so he says everything wrong. For example he says that co-equal means equal in every way, but that is what identical is and we don’t think the 3 persons are the same in every way because they are distinct
@ in 12:18 he says a straw man and then jay says that he is wrong. That is how a conversation is when 1 person is slow and not as smart as the person they are debating. Just admit that Muslim lantern lost he’s terrible at attacking Christianity and dosent understand our theology
@ 23:10 look at his responce and say if that is someone who is smart or not
ML=Snake
He more resembles a 🐫 than a snake to me, but the same tactics nonetheless
The audience are matured enough to make their judgments. At least show them respect by allowing them to listen to both sides. Interrupting in debate is a sign of weakness.
Lying can only get you that far
Christianity is free because it's the truth not a single lie is needed to defend is because it's the truth
Its built on lies lmao, thats why christianity is dying
There are three metaphors to understand the trinity which I explain for the muslim people here. You dont need to agree with it but at least you understand it.
1. There is one time line and on this timeline there are three different times: past, present and future. Each time is different in their roles but all have the same essence to be the time. Same with God of the bible who calls himself JHWH which includes all three timelines because you cant translate it in our language. It means "I was who I was", "I am who I am" and "I will who I will be" or according to the book of revelations: I will come.
2. God made us according to Genesis to his image. We are only what we are because we live in families. God loves community and calls his followers his children. So God himself is kind of a family made out of father, son and holy spirit. As our concept of family is father, mother and son who belong to the family name JHWH. Every family member has different roles but all belong to the same family JHWH. So all are God JHWH. But yes only the father is called mostly also in our human case with the last name because he is the authority in the family. But it doesnt mean that the son cant become the second authority if he matures. That is what Jesus is. He proved his position by becoming the lamb and sat next to his father after resurrection and rising to him. The holy spirit has the role of the mother. Through the holy spirit human beings become children of God by being spiritual born to Gods family.
3. Just imagine there is a game developer. He wants to program a pc game like our world. With sun and earht. Animals and digital humans. He codes it all and because he cant step in his pc to become a part of this world fo not destroying it he can code himself in this game. So his code become his avatar in this world. That is what John 1,1-3 and 14 is describing. Gods word became flesh. Through his word everything became. etc.
The mouse is like the holy spirit. Cant be seen by the digital humans and can see everything. Has the power to do anything etc. And in the end it can move and live in the hearts of digital humans. That is the reason why the bible says that God lives in us christians.
Hope that it made you understand it better. God bless.
Where would these people be without Islam. Literally allows all these “debaters” food to eat. Literally wouldn’t survive if they didn’t go against Islam
Christian guy turned into an emotional lesbian when ML called him out
The fact that Christians can watch this and think Jay made a good argument is beyond me
Jay was muted during opening. I saw someone say ALL Christian’s agree about the Trinity. When he said there are some coming around. He names SOME, not all. I see ML being dishonest. Complicating the scripture. ML staying it wasn’t a book when Jay PROVES it at the end. Towards the end, Jay is muted during the closing statement. You can find it easy. Jay is LITERALLY POINTING ML is wrong.
This is why.
Bro's living in a desilusion
I’m guessing the Monarchical Trinitarian doctrine is also beyond you then
@alexandria1663 Yeah, I do find this belief system problematic. It reminds me of greek mythology with gods and demi gods.
Essentially, claiming all source of power is the father but in the same breath, claim the father and the son are the same is confusing to me.
Maybe im the problem and this pseudo monotheism makes a lot of sense
@@bitesizeboxing5121personal incredulity fallacy.
Another win for the muslim lantern... it baffles me how you think jay won no wonder they have you brainwashed
your own muslims admit he got beat, be open minded
@@carp2728 which muslim
@@carp2728bro you are just yapping
@@KaKa-ij9zzironic. listen to Muslim Lantern speak 😭
@@carp2728 wtf are you on about? Are you critiquing the way he speaks? Ret@rded reasoning as expected from you
Jay is childish n not honorable simply have no dignity. He became abusive in the end.
I don’t understand why ML insists on patronizing and being condescending to literally EVERYONE. BOTH he and his audience complain about ppl being disrespectful as if they just don’t see it and ML has no idea he’s even doing it. Is this sum culture dif I’m u aware of? He does it to the highest caliber of sincere opponents at the same rate.
Jay Dyer... not having basic morality of decent conversation!! I think Lantern is much beyond organised than this Jay man. @51:13 what is he imitating !!
Why is sneako muting Jay?
jd: u have 99 gods
ml:no one god with attribute just like me and my anger and my love u can't say they coexist with me
jd:ur book say go and confirm ur book in the other scriptur
ml: no allah clearly say that coran is the only uncorrupted book
(48) And We have revealed to you, [O Muḥammad], the Book [i.e., the Qur’ān] in truth, confirming that which preceded it of the Scripture and as a criterion over it. So judge between them by what Allāh has revealed and do not follow their inclinations away from what has come to you of the truth. To each of you We prescribed a law and a method.[268] Had Allāh willed, He would have made you one nation [united in religion], but [He intended] to test you in what He has given you; so race to [all that is] good.[269] To Allāh is your return all together, and He will [then] inform you concerning that over which you used to differ
jd:llllllll buuuuh buuuh
I swear that I did not understand anything from Jay. He is just a good speaker; I don’t see him seeking the truth-he just loves to argue not truth.
You not being able to understand doesn’t mean he’s lying lmao
Why u changed to Jay in the end. Im muslim was watching here and u turn off 3 screen. Wow. Didnt listen to muslim lantern bcs u turned off...
hahaha how can people say jay won? XDXD he keeps interupting and curving arround his answers. For sincere people its clear to see that jay 100% lost the debate on so many points
In debate class they always have a debate and vote on a winner-then the professor comes out and explains why they actually lost and EVERYONE feels stupid bc once you understand it, it feels like common sense. It’s not subjective at all you just need to learn why a bad argument is a bad argument and you’ll realize why.
Jay didn’t exactly win, it’s more like ML just lost
Hey you have that funny flag that doesn't exist in reality lol
@@Shayan.juniorrage baiting at its best. Hey you seem like you support the non existent colonials that have become terrorists
The Christian guy is quite clear n precise and the Muslim guy won’t except the answer but refrase it in how he believes it is, making it like a trick question n answer 🙆🏼♂️🤷🏼♂️🤣😂😅be straight n honest n precise
Coping is the new doctrine of Christianity
Christ is lord.
Stone licker seething 😂
Bro! Your ML guy was beyond embarrasing. First he needs to go brush up on his english speaking skills. He came into a debate with a prime philosophical mind like Jay Dyer and in the middle of the debate your muslim guy is asking for the meaning of a fallacy? 😂
@@evalsam7575 Jay Dyer can appeal to all the fallacies he wants to, but he's shamelessly outed himself in this video where he admits that The Father and Jesus are not equal in Knowledge, Power or Authority. The fact that Christians champion Dyer shows their ignorance. If I were you I'd be calling him out for being a heretic.
@@Paramount308 That’s exactly why Jay kept objecting MLs question. Lantern was trying to frame the trinity in a “this or” statement and it’s too complex of a topic to do that. He was trying to put words in Jay’s mouth and utterly failed, only exposing his snake like behavior and incompetence. It’s not about one being subservient to the other it’s the same god. I don’t understand what Muslims don’t understand about that.
Also it’s not a question of who has more knowledge, power, authority. The same god acts in the trinity simultaneously therefore being all knowing and omnipotent.
The one god exists simultaneously in three persons. You can call it a fallacy all you want, it doesn’t make it one nor illogical. You’re just blinded by your own bias.
athiest here but the Muslim guy won.
No he didn’t lol
Pfp gives it away, is this considered taqiyya?
"atheist here"
Lol. We believe you buddy. You have no idea what the shahada is and Mohammad is a fake rasool, correct?
@@EAD1142😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
Yall are soooo mad that islam wins
I love it lol
لا اله الا الله وحده لا شريك له له الملك وله الحمد وهو على كل شيء قدير ومحمد عبده ورسوله صلى الله عليه وسلم لا اله الا الله سبحانه وتعالى عما يصفون واتوب اليه
The Christian dude is doing mental gymnastics. He made no arguments against Islam. Insane cope.
Even Jay doesn't believe in the trinity:)
Father is the only true god.
By definition all the other "gods" are fake, false, not true gods:)
And lantern doesn’t believe in allah
@@elasurademexico💀 what, he's a Muslim bro wdym he doesn't believe in Allah
Abdul’s Brian is in their knee
Jay Dyer was nowhere around ML.
Continuously interrupting and behaving disrespectful.
He behaves too childish in this debate.
Finally, ML is 💪 💪 💪.
😂😂😂 Muhammadan pagan
There is no God but Allah and prophet Muhammad and jesus are his messanger
Jesus is next to the father right now and Mohammed is in hell for writing a false gospel
Orthodoxy wins as usual ☦️
Bro there’s so many Muslims coping in the comments am I crazy ? How stupid can you be to think the Muslim guy won
Muslims don't want to address the inconsistencies in their own holy-book. If you were a native muslimite and talked arabic you would see the simple truth of Allah / God. Yeah..
The first point: This Christian debater said clearly in the opening that the Church Fathers are united in the idea of the Trinity
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But when Muhammad Ali responded to him, he began to shake and become afraid and did not make him speak
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This debate proves that Christians are cowards and do not like anyone to speak. This was clear from Muhammad Ali’s calmness because he was right and the confusion of the Christian debater because of his fear of exposing his fraud.
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The problem is that he said that (Muslim Lantern)
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He says he doesn't want to answer, even though it is an answer, and tells him that God did not say about Himself what the man in the gray shirt claimed
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The answer of the man in the gray shirt was that he said
He doesn't want to answer
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These are the ways of ignorant people who are afraid to respond and do not have any answers. When someone shocks them and tells them that he does not acknowledge his words at all, he begins to deceive people and make them believe that he does not want to answer.
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I can't see winning but I can only see the fraud, the deceiver and the fear
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The second point is that the same man in the gray T-shirt said that you say in terms of dependency and so on, but when he told him that I do not use them, he said that Jake uses them. Is Jake Islam, the Qur’an, or the Sunnah? We can ask the same question to Jake, where did you get these terms from in the first place?
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Someone's statement is not proof of Islam
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Number Three: When (Muslim Lantern) said to him “Give me five things about the Mu’tazilites,” he started to go senile because he spoke about what he did not know and said classic debates. I challenge him if he understood them. Then he said, “I do not have to introduce your schools.”
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Why was nothing extracted from these classic debates except the position of the Mu’tazilites? This is not a search to achieve anything but truthfulness, but only to use it to confuse people.
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Then the man in a gray shirt does not understand the examples that (Muslim Lantern) gives, and he gives examples in order to understand through the example and not liken the example to the attributes of God.
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Except that there is nothing in reality that is devoid of attributes for you to attribute to God, and this is what he explained to him and this is what all the scholars of the Sunnis and the community say, and we have nothing to do with the doctrine of theologians without evidence.
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The question asked by (Muslim Lantern) was a clear question, and do not come and tell me that it is in his human nature and not divine, because Christ, according to the text, only proved knowledge of the divine essence, which is the Father, but he denied it from himself in every way and from the Holy Spirit, and why is the Holy Spirit neglected? In the text from the beginning, he is equal to them in divinity
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The man in the gray T-shirt tried to respond, but even his response does not support Masih’s lack of knowledge of the hour, because there is nothing in the Bible to support his response.
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Unfortunately, it is proven that the son is not equal to the father in everything, and this is polytheism and the opposite of monotheism.
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He says that the Son declared in John chapters 5 and 6 that he is equal to the Father. Unfortunately, the Gospel of John says in chapter 5, verse 19: Then Jesus answered and said to them: “Most assuredly, I say to you, the Son can do nothing on his own except what He sees the father working. For whatever he does, the Son does likewise
_
This is proof that Christ cannot do anything without the Father
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Rather, I spoke in context: verse 30 proves that Christ is a messenger and not God, and that he does everything that the Father commands him to do as if he were his servant and not God, and this is what Muslims say: I cannot do anything on my own. As I hear, I will be judged, and my judgment is just, for I do not seek my own will, but the will of the Father who sent me.
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This is Islam, surrender to the will of God
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In the same chapter, he says that he is able to bring the dead to life because it is the Father who gave this thing, and this is what Muslims believe, that God gave Christ the ability to raise the dead, God willing: Gospel of John, chapter 5, verse 20: For the Father loves the Son and shows him everything that he does, and will show him Greater works than these, that you may marvel.
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21 For just as the Father raises the dead and gives life to them, so also the Son gives life to whom he will.
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And this is only in the first 30 minutes or so, and you say that Muslims are afraid, but rather that you are cowards and cannot defend your belief.
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Bro ain’t nobody reading all dat just take the L lol Mohamed police be upon him
Regarding your first point dyer says “they unanimously teach the divinity of christ, the triad as well and the deity of the holy spirit”…”they teach what would become the doctrine of the trinity”
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muslim lantern “responded” when sneako said “muslim lantern would you like to respond” already this debate has no proper structure whatsoever. It seems that sneako forgot that Muslim Lantern needed to begin with an opening statement. Muslim Lantern does the mistake of asking a question and expecting an answer in his opening statement. This disrupts the structure of the argumentation. That is why Dyer does not want to answer as not a proper way to begin this debate, since it wasn’t focused on an opening statement.
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Muslim Lantern is then adamant on a definition of the trinity after Dyer had already offered a monarchical trinitarian definition. Unfortunately muslim lantern does not understand what “monarchy” means. Therefore assuming a definition in place of dyer’s saying the trinity is “co-equal and co eternal” after dyer had already provided a concise definition.
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Muslim lantern says that the verses in John were use by Jay dyer to prove the doctrine of the trinity, misquoting dyer when he said “jesus shared the same essence with the father”. The verse (19)which you quote where the son does what the father does is proving the same divine will being the same because they share the same essence.
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Christ therefore does what the father does as he shares the same essence. Does not mean that he isn’t God. It is that he shares the same divine will, not to be confused with “doing the will of God” like we are called to do, (jews,muslims, christians)
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This debate proves that Muslims don’t know argumentation, nor know epistemology, and its criteria, or logical fallacies as well. Have in mind that understanding logical fallacies and proper epistemic criteria is necessary to have a proper debate.
Allah's mercy is not equal to his wrath, so then those attributes can't be apart of Allah. This is your logic. Distinctions within God don't entail separation.
Tawhid means one and only God, trinity means three in one. So a bunch of wise guys in the comments believe one hour of blabbering by a trinitarian proves God is not one but three in one? And he won the debate 😂😂😂 yayyy now give him a medal. Will not make the Earth flat if he says so.
Question: So is the Quran an attribute of Allah, and does it have its own Consciousness? I ask because the Hadith says " it's a little pale colored man" and that " it will intercede for Muslims at the Judgement?"
Weak Hadith. Also it is the deed not the Quran.
@@TheStraightPath-px8mk which one is weak the one that says that the Quran is a pale man , or the one that says that it will intercede for Muslims? Also there are many Hadiths that say that the Quran will both "intercede and testify" on the day of judgement, are you saying that all of those Hadiths are weak, or are you referring to just 1, because I believe there are many strong Hadiths that say the Quran will both "intercede and testify for Muslims" to Allah.... Do these strong hadiths, indicate that the Quran has a Consciousness, independent from Allah?
@@LuckyLuchiano-g8o pale man
@@TheStraightPath-px8mk Did you read my last response? I asked a few questions.
@@LuckyLuchiano-g8o "Quran"literally means recitation in Arabic. In the religious snese its Gods words. There are several hadiths that attribute testimony from all sorts of things you interact with on the day of judgment. In the case of the of the testomnial of the Quran, its not refering to a personification of a book turning into a man (that was a fabricated/weak hadith) it is refreing to your relationship with Gods words. Did you recite them, abandon them, apply them them, or teach them. That relationship with Gods words will serve as a testimante for or against you on the day of judgment.
some muslims mix up their talking with firing of a AK-47...scammers very often produce a deluge of words to confuse or numb the minds of listeners.
holy jay is actually lost this guy is a child in a grown body he refuses to understand lol
Jay getting a taste of Muslim sophistry, lol.
Lmao Jay gives opening statement on his stance. Muslim Lantern proceeds to asks questions and put words in Jays mouth lmfao why can’t a Muslim every just give their position? Oh right because their religion only works with tricks and word play.
The Muslim guy destroyed Jay.
😂😂 why is it that Christians are fearful to talk about Christianity in these debates.
Christians even say bible corrupted 🤣. They don't even know what they speak
Good on jay for educating the Arab
I think there was some mis understanding. Both parties gives their points of view in the opening statements without questions. The questions should have happened after the opening statements during the debate.
yall don’t know how discord works. Sneako isnt muting him. See the border that flashes as people speaks? if the person is muted it won’t do that && there will be a small mute symbol in their facecam. Could be the upload. Instant finger pointing. May God guide you.
Muslim latern is too clever for jay .he know how jay hypocrite not to debate but coming for trolling or roasting islam . You can't understand trinity in 1000 years jusy forcing verses of bible to making trinity .
Assertions without evidence
Behold! Allah has silenced Dyer's opening monologue so we can ignore his definitions and positions.
This is a miracle which proves the quran! AllHamToAllah 🐷 ☪️
Okay..because of muslim lantern at 16mins Islam takes a big L..JDyer gave 5 min and he clearly didn't understand or maybe he did because he seems to bring a dishonest games to these debates..this my 2nd one after Andrew Wilson and lost in translation is what I'm going to call his game..he can't go toe to toe..his people should get him to stand down because thats a win for christians..and sneako is no moderator hes giving muslim a free pass for this dude to want to attack without earning it.👎
It's simple, attribute is not like 3 person in one period. if you want to force it and say it is, there is nothing we can do for you, you are brain washed.
Its a double standard. You say the attributes are distinct part of God without composition or separations, we say the persons are distinct without composition or separation. It's up to you to show how our position is a contradiction and your's isn't. You don't get to just say "it just is" because that's being arbitrary and ad hoc and by committing these fallacies you lose the debate.
Muslim Lantern is such a joke
It’s so hard to continue watching Lantern try to play it off that he’s the respectful one, makes up a strawman, and says Jay is wrong off those strawmans. Wants to trap his opponent in “simple questions” so he can manipulate the answers. This guy is really pathetic
Wolves in sheep’s clothing
excellent muslim lantern
In what way? Pretending to drink water from the empty bottle the whole vid?
What type of mod has discord blowing up on loud during the talk you are 🧠 💀
Still nobody understands the trinity 😅
jay does given he had to explain it twice for ML
Muslims :Bible is corrupted
Muslims two seconds later :Bible proves Islam
I thought it was corrupt ?
Muslims :not it’s good here but not where it disproves Islam 🤣🤣🤣
⭕️⭕️⭕️⭕️⭕️
Sneako was horrible moderator I see why fresh&fit did it
jay lost his words en en the whole debate😂😂
why is jay shouting. WHy is he interrupting.
Muslim lantern never answers any question😂😂
Is it hard to have a civilised conversation he's screaming like a child for 1 hour
These comments are biased AF. How is this the end of Muslim Lantern?? Jay was acting very childish and using the tactic of constantly interrupting. Every time Muslim Lantern asks him an question Jay deflects it was an absolute nonesense argument. I have to give the W to ML. Jay;s arguments were irrelivent and was starwmannig.
Jay wasn't deflecting. He didn't answer some questions straight away because he answered them in the opening statement. But for some reason Sneako muted him for a portion of it. For example ML said john 17:3, but if he listened to Jay, and if he knew what monarchical trinitarianism is, he wouldn't have asked🤦🏻♂️ And also ML said sum ab mark 13, Basil answers that. So pretty much ML just doesn't underatand Jay's position and thats why he made pretty bad arguements, and in the opening statement he wanted jay to "submit" to his idea of the Trinity which is not as detailed as Jay's, because that definition can allow an arguement where equal must mean equal in every sense
@@novak713 so what do u think is bible is corrupted or not , or it doesn't matter. Seems to me easy life if someone/son of god has already died for my sins. So I'll do as I wish according to my subjective views.
You can lose salvation. Faith without works is dead @@4time737
Christians mouth are very noisy 😂
Muslim L WWWWWW
8:28 polytheism. Smaller version of hinduism? 1 God prays to supreme God 😮
Jay so dumb. He keep contradicting hinself so many times. Sometimes equal and sometimes not then he keep talking about the same thing
Jay why blabing just because you dont know what mu'tazilah's aqidah is? Just say it you don't know, no need to blabing around.
He doesnt need to go on a tangent explaining some random school of thought because its not the topic of the debate.
Why didnt ML answer if the attributes possess aseity within themselves? Thats actually relevant to the debate because if he says yes he has multiple necessary beings and belives in multiple Gods.
Muslim lamp shade got absolutely spit roasted 😂😂😂😂
the biasesness in this comment section the christian in this debate is attacking the muslim guy non stop no good argument and his knowledge on chrstianinty and islam are limited
His non stop attacks are him just trying to get ML to answer a single question. ML spends the entire time obfuscating, deflecting, dawah scripting. Christians have actually refined their arguments into absolute kill shots against Islam and have made all of your internet apologists look silly over the last year. All of the Mohamadens coping in the comments because you can't see past your cult. Keep coping dude, or you can just accept the love and deity of Christ.
Well that’s true but ML was patronizing and condescending much more than he got attacked something you must factor in if you want to be objective
lol end of muslim lantern? More like a Christian coping 🤣
Someone like Mohammed Hijab wouldve been way better than Muslim Lanternhr was terrible at this aleays dodging the question
Muslim latern definitely aint no green latern thats for sure.. no imagination
My brother Muhammad, this man is a liar
Why cant the jay guy let the other guy speak?? 🤦🏾♂️
Bc The Muslim L guy keeps lying and making fallacies
Lantern is not a good debater but the christian lost the debate with his premise. How can you start with thw position that trinity isnt philosophically derived and is explicit
you disagreeing with him don't mean he lost the debate. it would require him to make a fallacy
@@slavecrusher6245 nah im not here to pick the president of the debate club. Im listening to the merits of each argument independent of the speaker to make my own informed thoughts. Thats the true value of a debate
jay didn't even answer 17:3
He has done hours of videos on this topic and addressed it in the video. The Father is true God by predication because He is the source of shared divinity in the trinity. A river has a source middle and end, but the middle and end are no less part of the same single river.