@@officialdabaws5228 TBH I don't really trust any tierlist till a week into the next expansion - And they will do more changes after the raid comes out as well.
@@TheGoldenAngel82 yeah so true, if I try and join a grp and they don't invite me for any reason other than my Rio is too low, then i dodged a bullet cos that's a bad group lol maybe also if they need a lust then that's fine too
5:20 Vestigial Shell (AMS on party members) suffers from the same design oversight problem that Mage Mass Barrier talent did right after their rework earlier in Dragonflight. What I mean by that is that sometimes your AMS goes on something like your ghoul, or some other friendly party member (Hunter and Warlock pets too lmao) who is not actually a player. When they fix this spell to only go on friendly players and not pets and things like that, then it will be good! Just this week or last, whenever we had Afflicted affix, my AMS actually went on the afflicted mob instead of my teammate. Kind of frustrating lol
I think they need to buff the range too. As a wheelchair melee class i cant actually get myself within 10 yds of 2 people as often as you'd think when i need to pop ams on a moment's notice
Ele being B tier is wild. When your talking terms of Mythic+ you have a raid buff/Windfury/cap totem/thinderstrike/one of the shortest interrupts,purge, cleanse and poison totem which is by far the best M+ utility in the game. Then you have damage which is absolutely performing A+ to S tier in M+. All three specs are going to thrive in the first patch in terms of M+ but that’s just my biased opinion.
Frost and unholy are both absolutely pumping right now in pre patch. Been playing DK and having mid dps all expac and suddenly im topping all the meters, feelsgoodman. Funny enough too, i always felt like DKs were super useful in groups bc of their tankiness and cc and self heal but everyone said their kit is useless. Now that they deal dmg all of a sudden they bring so much utility!! So weird :P
Hey Tettles, would love a comp M+ draft with the squad where you get to select hero talents. Everyone knows about the god comp, but building around the different strengths of your team with limited options is a better simulation of the pug experience
Feral has a weird profile right now where you really only ever spam bites with occasional dot reapplications, and wildstalker actually gives them pretty valuable ST -> AOE conversion if you proc vines on the big target, so you do good AOE while being able to single target one mob down, but your AOE falls off pretty hard if you aren’t procing vines on the right target
@@aeronothis5420 Peoples memory on OPnes of new class is quite bad. DK been OP in PvP for a single season only and then people acted like they were for 3 straight expension. As DPS they were S tier for a single xpack then locs got their title back. Monk were trash for the wol MoP in PvP and far from being S tier as DPS or Healer. DH in legion weren't even S tier in PvP, Vengence was top tier in mythic plus tought and Vengence like A+. Aug evoker had a whole xpac as a required spec for mythic plus push and are remaining Stier in the next one. I'D say they take crown of the OPeness new class.
@@aeronothis5420 they're not "too new", they have been a MUST HAVE for as long as they have existed, we're playing a live service game not something that gets a patch once every 4 years
Literally helping you complete your keys smoother. Why would you hope this? Unless you're a Pres or Dev Evoker stop complaining cause you cant get into keys. Make your own groups lol
Great video ! I have a hard time buying that any Rogues specs are A- currently with all the bugs and design but I want to believe it !! Just think those hold back the class, damage or not. Right on the money with Outlaw though. Ass right now. 😂
I dont care about Aug anymore, I will Insane-O mode my way into groups just by sheer magnitude of my FDK damage, tankiness, utility, decision making, perfect grips, perfect sleets, perfect stuns, perfect AMZs, perfect everything.
I knew the ret pally fun times couldnt last. it's season 1 DF all over again. I'll be waiting endlessly to even get into m+ or paying out the ass in gold to a group to let me in.
Honestly, from a shaman main, the nerfs weren't really nerfs, more of a redistribution with a slight nerf. Ele still does good damage, expect Frost DK to get nerfed into the ground due to current live experience being OP in damage. I'm able to do 2 million dps on a pull on my 507 dk.
I don't think hunter utility is bad. Their utility is unconventional. Hunters can go on solo missions to do things. They can pull things to the side and feign death. Frost Trap CCs without putting the team in combat. They have purge, they have soothe which improved for the expansion. They have multiple single target stops. Ice trap can also be used as a Single Target stop with a short cooldown. SV hunter even has interrupt on a short cooldown because they are melee. They still have master's call if you need someone to break a root on a teammate. Hunter shouldn't be compared to a warrior in relation to utility.
True but even tho you can do keys with lets say outlaw rogue, it doesn’t make you feel good to know you re doing shit dmg compared to other classes and that your class is also bugged to shit and needs drastic changes.
@@Diavolo222 There's some truth to that, it does feel shitty not being able to output as much dps because of balancing, but also it really depends on the player and gear. A player that plays a meta spec sub-optimally will always be worse than a player that plays an off-meta spec well (not just doing damage but also using utility properly or at all in some cases). Also any geared character with good io regardless of spec is always welcomed in my groups, my point is everyone should start bringing in the player and not the class, specially if you're not pushing really high keys.
saying Hunter has poor utility, tells me you don't play the spec... it has access to BL, plenty of self healing and defensives. They unlock dungeon and raid mechanics bc movecasting is OP as hell in WoW Countershot is a shortcast Interrupt, access to pets can bring more defensives / growl utility it has single target friendliness for the user and plenty of utility, one of the highest utility classes for what it brings to a group. M+ is no different
When I'm talking about utility: I think Binding Shot is the worst of the AOE stuns by a TON. Hunter's Mark is by far the worst raid buff Tar Trap is the worst slow in the game High Explosive Trap is the worst knockback in the game Implosive Trap is good, but has a travel time That's what im talking about.
Tell me you're sub 3k io without telling me you're sub 3k io. Utility almost never refers to things you can do for yourself. Hunter offers next to nothing for their group, and they are by far the worst lust class to take in keys. Can they title? Sure. But not the best; they are taxed heavily for their ease of play and simplicity.
@jackomoore2832 Am I the kid for giving you advice from a top .1% perspective, or are you a kid for emotionally reacting to a youtuber not saying your main is good? The comedy writes itself; you are why hunter jokes exist.
I have an issue with Tier lists for Mythic plus that is damage and survivability. What about control, lust, battle rez. The ability to deal with affixes..
Absolutely true Our mythic raid guild was like „What you wanna play?“ to me due to my high position i was first to choose I said: „Enhancement, Frostfk or Arcane Mage“ Arcane mage was absolutely insane, so i picked and locked it Now its „just“ A Cant change it now tho Hope it doesnt get nerfed even more ._.
@@aroshley4348 only noobs care about what spec you play. you cant go play a dk if you're the only lock in the party ofc but switching between specs are never a problem. on my guild i play all rogue specs at raid, whichever i wanna play at that time. we never have any issue. you'd only do like %5-10 less dmg with a different spec which would affect the fight less than %0.5
With aug nerfs, augs are only buffing healer output by like 8% now (including source of magic), additionally Spriest's borrowed dmg from Aug was like 2x every other spec on the last 3 patches and Spriest isn't meta anymore, PI is gone and the meta likely won't revolve around 2m CD classes. Without an Spriest in the group Aug already (on live) doesn't bring as much DPS as a 3rd damage dealer, you can check all the top m+ logs in the world if you don't believe me. I just can't see Augment bringing 1.5% phys DR to tanks and 8% healing for healers at the cost of actual DPS throughout being enough to bring them in whatever the new push meta comp is. Weyrnstone is also gone and blistering scales is especially less useful if people end up pushing on Guardian. Survivability is nice but at this point they're just not bringing that much more of it than some other classes while coming at the cost of throughput, and I think they're only appearing to bring viable damage on beta due to augmenting OP classes that are yet to be brought in line with tuning. I could be wrong, but I don't think we're going to see much aug this patch.
@@DeutschlandIstSchuld you didn’t read or didn’t understand. The survival they provide for the group has been nerfed significantly AND they now come at the cost of damage. Mage/DK offer comparable survivability buffs without the damage loss. Additionally, passing survivability checks in 21 keys are irrelevant if you fall short of the DPS checks by 30% anyway. You have no idea what you’re talking about and are just parroting things you’ve heard other people say. Mathematically, it’s very unlikely Aug will remain S+. Apply their beta nerfs to the current season and suddenly the group is failing survival checks and missing 3 key levels worth of damage as well.
@@DeutschlandIstSchuld I just gave you a perfectly valid explanation and your reply was "Okay but im still right" Yea, you really can't be assed arguing indeed
Yeah thats a cool story bro but you clearly havent been playing beta because Aug is still extremely good in beta keys, and that includes its damage(and I can guarantee you its doing even more damage than whats shown on logs rn because theres no way everything is getting attributed correctly when plenty of specs have numerous bugs themselves) its very much competitive damage wise with any non Diabolist Warlock/Frost DK/Ret Pally(bugged rn) and every single tank is going to prefer playing with an aug even moreso now than before. You can mentally masturbate about "but aug doesnt bring as much survivability as before" all you want but the bottom line is it is absolutely still very much significant on beta(and every single tank will tell you the same thing...they 100% prefer to play with an Aug in beta keys, compared to not playing with one) and it will for sure help enable pulling bigger and more aggressively, which is something tanks will 100% struggle to do this season in higher keys without an aug. And bigger and more aggressive pulls=faster key. To be completely honest you sound completely clueless talking about how "I think Aug might be dead for m+" because the sentiment amongst those of us pushing high keys is the direct opposite of that - Aug isnt going anywhere as of right now.
Anyone else feel like, based on their own experience, Ret Paladins are criminally underrated? Like every time these tiers come out they rank them turbo mid, but every time i run with them they just absolutely destroy in keys. Feels weird.
If blizzard actually listened to feedback they would know how to balance aug. Everyone knows the real reason aug is invited to group at high level keys is because of the survivability it brings to everyone including tanks and healing power to healers. Make the dps support spec support only dps specs. It really is that easy. Then people wouldnt see them as an external defensive class to survive the incoming damage for super high dps specs that just don't have strong enough defensives to survive +25 and higher keys incoming damage.
@@xlightninghawk6360 myself? No but watching streamers play it like BondD and Petko? Yes as those 2 are some of the best players. I legit just saw Petko do like 2 dungeons at Ele ( Farseer ) and even he said the class isn't as fun now after nerfs. Dude did 1.1m DMG over all while demo lock did 1.6m and Assassin rogue did 1.5m in a +12 key. He wasn't able to keep us and he's again, one of the best Ele players and very knowledgeable of the spec and class. Obviously this is beta so this doesn't really matter since things will change before season 1 but currently until changes happen again Ele really did get the hammer when it comes to nerfs.
Rramged get a +1 tier boost imo because theres always some broken cheese where you stand on a pillar or move 30yd away and dodge 90% of mechanics. Although seems they've been somewhat proactively addressing it this time.
Blizzard can change everything with one mini patch, this comes from someone who played each expansion. That is how they keep the game fresh, just play what you like.
Hunter utility might not be great but I have always felt that they play "tank support" quite well, as in they can focus on assisting the tank (Threat on pull, Binding shot for kiting, more slows than actual stops until implosion trap was added). That type of utility just isn't as needed in today's WoW, and is made much more apparent and useful back in the days of classic where they would be the ones actually pulling for the tanks if it was ever dangerous for them to do so. As a Surv hunter I am very excited to have implosion trap and the 3 target intimidate. Combine that with us being rather sturdy anymore and I think we can carve..butcher? our way through M+ Quick edit: Loved seeing you on the PoddyC and will have to check out the Bench! Thanks for the content Tettles
The arms nerf they dished out this week was insane, essentially 20% nerf to MS and Overpower and for the life of me I dont get why. The Fire nerfs also really confused me, its like they just dont want us to play Fire.
Ele shaman after those giga nerfs are just punishing to playing playing with that spec in any content raid or m+ or even pvp. If you hate somebody and you can tell what he need to play it's just elemental shaman, currently on beta its just that bad. You are out of your mind if you think ele is still hit even the B rank now on beta. Just check petko's beta m+ video after the nerf happened on beta.
@@wowcherub Hes one of the best Ele shammy players in the game. and after the Massive nerfs elemental isnt all that great anymore. Its still beta obviously so things will change but elemental without question fell from grace. If people had Ele at A tier before, its now clearly around C if not D now. Blizzard overnerfed the spec to the ground. if things stand as is come season 1, the best spec coming out of Shaman will be Resto
@@wowcherubbondd is also dooming hard and he gets title every season and usually tries really hard to make it work. Unfortunately now damage is bad but playstyle got hit hard too
Tier lists have always been funny to me 😂 showing spec that is c tier and it turns out people with making lists never played them correctly and they are s tier rofl . GG on the content tho, keeps non aware people entertained😂
I think you are overvaluing Aug. If I am wrong I will admit to it and I get that tanks got clapped, so their survivability buff is now worth more, but tanks generally find a way to function at high levels, even if it means them having to kite shit. The Aug will likely be used as crutch for teams that have trouble surviving +14's, but have the damage throughput to clear them with just two DPS, which is a hell of a niche and not representative of Mythic+ at high end. The survivability Aug brings just isn't good enough to let your team fly through keys that would have killed them before. It's enough to be significant for groups that barely can't live some mechanics, but their lack of damage means they really can't be trusted into keys where the timer is ever in question. In season 4 of DF, Augs let you do meaningfully bigger pulls to compensate for their lack of throughput, but because of the nerfs to their Ebon Might, the amount of power they give tanks and healers is also significantly smaller and the passive 2% dr and Blistering Scales are no longer a bonus on top of that. They are the whole reason to bring the spec now and it's just not enough at high end, in my estimation. Again, I am willing to admit to being wrong here if I'm wrong, but Aug's impact has dwindled. Far gone are the days it flew your group through +3 levels higher keys than before like every week was push week.
Feels good to be FDK right now, especially Breath build. Breath is so good that people are jealous about it. It's a major sour grape thing where people try to go "you're not good enough for Breath!!!!!! Reeee!"
Nice! That's what I expected, the Druid main putting his favourite spec in the lowest tier. 😂 Beautiful! I also love how mage and warlock always get the top spot since forever, shaman gets fucked and all that's missing is holy pally and Ret getting buffed af to make them meta (Holy) and A+ specs (Ret). You can just whip out the tier list of the last three expansions and it'll be about the same.
Elemental is actually a C tier spec in mythic plus now because of all the movement you have to do and the best single target damage spec is extremely stationary, so on target dummies you may do OKish damage but in a real mythic plus setting you will be battle the tank on the damage meters. Its trash and will never be seen in mythic plus if launched like this.
@@Fermpm And how do you do 750k single target dps as elemental shaman. Its not even possible to do that on a target dummy over a 7 minute period. Stop trolling
You don't play or know ele.verybwell do you?:) if you did you'd know that even after the need ele is amongst the best DPS in beta atm. At least if we're taking m+
They should in a Single Target Talent for shadow where which each mind blast the „ghost guy“ doing more dmg maybe for Boss hp 100-80 and 20-0 and for pvp you Can make this like the corruption guy where you Can cc them
I hate to even say this out loud, BUT I think there is some untapped value here in the tier lists. Considering everyone makes these “disclaimers” about high and low keys for the classes while also now the game is set up in a under ten & over ten format… you should prob make tier lists for over ten meta cutting edge and and tier list for under ten and how the classes now act different in these key environments. Because lets be real, its two different games and every knows it . Plus aug wont be at the top of the list for the under ten general communty tier list
This "target capped" argument matters only in super high end korean style 25+ mythics and 99.9% players runnying 10's and 15's are not affected at all by it. Lets take C tier bm hunter as example here from mythic raider running mid tier mythics with friends for weakly vault. Your group pull 2 packs max running smootly from one pack to next to finish in time and not taking any risks. In that scenario you damage is perfectly fine and on top of that you bring lust you bring traps, stuns, range interrupt, trank-dispel mobs binding arrow, aoe knockup for hard interupt. You do your damage at range while moving. Well played hunter that uses all its kit is problem solver for the entire group. when i play dk dps or a lock and someone makes mistake there is little i can do. 99% people play in mid to high range of mythics. In that braket its S tier for pugging or guild "hey anyone want to do weeekly mythics?" group.
I disagree with all tier lists right now. It's too early to determine actual performance because there are constant changes during beta. With unintroduced updates that will be patched in sometime soon, these tier lists aren't a true indication of performance. For instance, monks are getting damage buffs and many QoL and bug fixes. It's going to be very different for them very soon. I think that they're going to be a sleeper spec.
Also earth ele literally received no changes for elemental going from DF to TWW. What we did receive is bulwark totem and season winds. One is very situational Dr.
I know it’s whack to comment before watching but the thumbnail… man I just want to lock in Feral for one season and not feel like a fool. Edit: Alright, B! We take those
LoL Blizzard Warwithin Expansion is so fkin bad as of right now. Pre Patch Frost dk is busted and svr is busted. Warrior 2pc s3 and 2pc s4 is somewhat OP lol.
The nerfs only removed some of the aug spreading its offensive power through the group. Their personal damage is significantly higher in TWW than previously. I've tested it a decent amount in beta and the throughput is still perfectly relevant.
Me: Tier lists are the best! Hell yeah!
Also me: My class isn't S tier! Tier lists are garbage!
tier lists are all so different right now depending on who you watch. im sure you can find a creator putting your class in A or S tier :P
@@officialdabaws5228 TBH I don't really trust any tierlist till a week into the next expansion - And they will do more changes after the raid comes out as well.
@@TheGoldenAngel82 truth is, tier lists dont affect 99% of players, if you arent ladder pushing, you can just play whatever you want
@@officialdabaws5228 Yep, you and I know that. M+2 pugs doesn't seem to know that :P
@@TheGoldenAngel82 yeah so true, if I try and join a grp and they don't invite me for any reason other than my Rio is too low, then i dodged a bullet cos that's a bad group lol maybe also if they need a lust then that's fine too
The music choice may have been not the best
5:20 Vestigial Shell (AMS on party members) suffers from the same design oversight problem that Mage Mass Barrier talent did right after their rework earlier in Dragonflight. What I mean by that is that sometimes your AMS goes on something like your ghoul, or some other friendly party member (Hunter and Warlock pets too lmao) who is not actually a player. When they fix this spell to only go on friendly players and not pets and things like that, then it will be good!
Just this week or last, whenever we had Afflicted affix, my AMS actually went on the afflicted mob instead of my teammate. Kind of frustrating lol
I think they need to buff the range too. As a wheelchair melee class i cant actually get myself within 10 yds of 2 people as often as you'd think when i need to pop ams on a moment's notice
@@ASDFGHJKL12345-i true haha. I love being a wheelchair spec! lolol
Goes on ghoul and tank everytime, and is currently useless. And the 50% duration reduce is a potential wipe causer.
Ty tettles for ranking fury so low we don’t get nerfed
As a fellow fury main, I also appreciate keeping us out of the spotlight ;-)
@@WhyteDem0n the fury warrior experience in TWW "charge, pop buttons,die!" , a dead dps is 0 dps warrior friends , its not all about dmg lol
@@valvol1newhy are you dying? Sounds like a skill issue on your end :p
@@valvol1ne just meld lol
@@sodawow1602really sounds like skill issue
Ele being B tier is wild. When your talking terms of Mythic+ you have a raid buff/Windfury/cap totem/thinderstrike/one of the shortest interrupts,purge, cleanse and poison totem which is by far the best M+ utility in the game. Then you have damage which is absolutely performing A+ to S tier in M+. All three specs are going to thrive in the first patch in terms of M+ but that’s just my biased opinion.
Frost and unholy are both absolutely pumping right now in pre patch. Been playing DK and having mid dps all expac and suddenly im topping all the meters, feelsgoodman.
Funny enough too, i always felt like DKs were super useful in groups bc of their tankiness and cc and self heal but everyone said their kit is useless. Now that they deal dmg all of a sudden they bring so much utility!! So weird :P
if you were playing dk and having mid dps all expansion im gonna be honest that's on you
@@liamdavies2823 i've been the rank 1 dk dps on my server all expansion im gonna be honest you're dumb
@@liamdavies2823 i'm better than you
Prepatch dps doesn't matter....
@@Ravoks neither do you
Hey Tettles, would love a comp M+ draft with the squad where you get to select hero talents. Everyone knows about the god comp, but building around the different strengths of your team with limited options is a better simulation of the pug experience
The background music was really distracting
Between the speed of the background music and the cadence that Tettles normally speaks, this whole video has a rushed feel.
Enjoy your downvote, bud. Reddit assemble!
@@joshualuttrell7269 Ur gay
I think you have adhd
I like turtles
Feral has a weird profile right now where you really only ever spam bites with occasional dot reapplications, and wildstalker actually gives them pretty valuable ST -> AOE conversion if you proc vines on the big target, so you do good AOE while being able to single target one mob down, but your AOE falls off pretty hard if you aren’t procing vines on the right target
One patch where augvokers and veng dh's are unplayable I BEG
augvoker is too new, but veng DH I agree lmao
@@aeronothis5420 Peoples memory on OPnes of new class is quite bad. DK been OP in PvP for a single season only and then people acted like they were for 3 straight expension. As DPS they were S tier for a single xpack then locs got their title back. Monk were trash for the wol MoP in PvP and far from being S tier as DPS or Healer. DH in legion weren't even S tier in PvP, Vengence was top tier in mythic plus tought and Vengence like A+. Aug evoker had a whole xpac as a required spec for mythic plus push and are remaining Stier in the next one. I'D say they take crown of the OPeness new class.
@@aeronothis5420 so is destruction, yet they got gutted very early on, same with pres
@@aeronothis5420 they're not "too new", they have been a MUST HAVE for as long as they have existed, we're playing a live service game not something that gets a patch once every 4 years
Literally helping you complete your keys smoother. Why would you hope this? Unless you're a Pres or Dev Evoker stop complaining cause you cant get into keys. Make your own groups lol
Great video ! I have a hard time buying that any Rogues specs are A- currently with all the bugs and design but I want to believe it !! Just think those hold back the class, damage or not. Right on the money with Outlaw though. Ass right now. 😂
On top of bad damage on Outlaw it's also extremely bugged and Killing Spree is a literal accessibility disaster :(
Blizzard just forgot about rogues.
@@ZahryDThey put us in a dumpster and deleted that dumpster😂
Oh no outlaw isn't meta for one season out of 80% time it is.. Poor rogues
@@psz90 Rogues have never been meta kekw😂
@@Jaxblckkk yee how quickly the majority of xpacs are forgotten
I feel like I just listened to a Max video ending for 23 minutes.
This music is so distracting
Blizzard should delete Aug and remove target cap
Blizzard should buff aug, youre just jealous
let’s go..
I dont care about Aug anymore, I will Insane-O mode my way into groups just by sheer magnitude of my FDK damage, tankiness, utility, decision making, perfect grips, perfect sleets, perfect stuns, perfect AMZs, perfect everything.
@@Ludspawi agree
No -TheAugCrew
I knew the ret pally fun times couldnt last. it's season 1 DF all over again. I'll be waiting endlessly to even get into m+ or paying out the ass in gold to a group to let me in.
Keep up the flow of great content Tettles, love your work!
Frost DK hype
What is this song used in the background here and in Limit Max's outro?
Honestly, from a shaman main, the nerfs weren't really nerfs, more of a redistribution with a slight nerf. Ele still does good damage, expect Frost DK to get nerfed into the ground due to current live experience being OP in damage. I'm able to do 2 million dps on a pull on my 507 dk.
Thank you for actually understanding what the issue with rogue is, our damage was never the issue.
Lol, is destro still good after the recent nerfs? It feels too soon to do tier lists based on damage with all the tuning still going on.
The ele shaman nerf is really upsetting. I was planning to main it in TWW. I have done warlock main for so long now...
And is there a Bearded buff? Cheers!
Tettles sandbagging boomkin again.
Aug S-tier? After yesterday's update the spec feels bad going into the expansion. Hope I'm wrong!
The madman did it. He pulled the trigger on class tier list for next expac.
And now it begins
Would love to see an update of this. With all the hot-fixing going on - some of these I would suspect have changed dramatically. i.e. Destro
I don't think hunter utility is bad. Their utility is unconventional. Hunters can go on solo missions to do things. They can pull things to the side and feign death. Frost Trap CCs without putting the team in combat. They have purge, they have soothe which improved for the expansion. They have multiple single target stops. Ice trap can also be used as a Single Target stop with a short cooldown. SV hunter even has interrupt on a short cooldown because they are melee. They still have master's call if you need someone to break a root on a teammate.
Hunter shouldn't be compared to a warrior in relation to utility.
Don't forget the new implosive trap (knock up) which is the AoE stop they were lacking. I don't think hunters stand out as having poor utility tbf.
Copium bro hunter should be a pvp only spec along with rogue gg blizz sad days for tuning around raid buffs and not giving hunters shit
Remember that these tier lists only matter if you’re trying to do high keys. Y’all be just fine playing whatever in your weekly +10’s.
True but even tho you can do keys with lets say outlaw rogue, it doesn’t make you feel good to know you re doing shit dmg compared to other classes and that your class is also bugged to shit and needs drastic changes.
@@Diavolo222 There's some truth to that, it does feel shitty not being able to output as much dps because of balancing, but also it really depends on the player and gear.
A player that plays a meta spec sub-optimally will always be worse than a player that plays an off-meta spec well (not just doing damage but also using utility properly or at all in some cases).
Also any geared character with good io regardless of spec is always welcomed in my groups, my point is everyone should start bringing in the player and not the class, specially if you're not pushing really high keys.
if you live the pug life you have to follow the meta, because that's what puggers do
...unless you pug anything at all, in which case you won't get a single invite within an hour of queueing up if you're anything below A tier
@@bajcli aye living the pug life tends to make these decisions for you.
You’re the only one not saying rogue should be dumped to the trash and avoided. THX FOR THE HOPES I might stick to my main
Any chance you can go over this again with all the buffs the classes got.. Ele got alot of buffs
saying Hunter has poor utility, tells me you don't play the spec... it has access to BL, plenty of self healing and defensives. They unlock dungeon and raid mechanics bc movecasting is OP as hell in WoW Countershot is a shortcast Interrupt, access to pets can bring more defensives / growl utility it has single target friendliness for the user and plenty of utility, one of the highest utility classes for what it brings to a group. M+ is no different
When I'm talking about utility:
I think Binding Shot is the worst of the AOE stuns by a TON.
Hunter's Mark is by far the worst raid buff
Tar Trap is the worst slow in the game
High Explosive Trap is the worst knockback in the game
Implosive Trap is good, but has a travel time
That's what im talking about.
Tell me you're sub 3k io without telling me you're sub 3k io.
Utility almost never refers to things you can do for yourself. Hunter offers next to nothing for their group, and they are by far the worst lust class to take in keys. Can they title? Sure. But not the best; they are taxed heavily for their ease of play and simplicity.
@coryp6868 actually higher than 3k but try again kid 😂
@jackomoore2832 Am I the kid for giving you advice from a top .1% perspective, or are you a kid for emotionally reacting to a youtuber not saying your main is good? The comedy writes itself; you are why hunter jokes exist.
I have an issue with Tier lists for Mythic plus that is damage and survivability. What about control, lust, battle rez. The ability to deal with affixes..
What affixes?
I understand the nerfs bc it was busted at the beginning, but i still feel a bit sad about arcane mage.
Absolutely true
Our mythic raid guild was like
„What you wanna play?“ to me due to my high position i was first to choose
I said: „Enhancement, Frostfk or Arcane Mage“
Arcane mage was absolutely insane, so i picked and locked it
Now its „just“ A
Cant change it now tho
Hope it doesnt get nerfed even more ._.
@@aroshley4348 only noobs care about what spec you play. you cant go play a dk if you're the only lock in the party ofc but switching between specs are never a problem. on my guild i play all rogue specs at raid, whichever i wanna play at that time. we never have any issue. you'd only do like %5-10 less dmg with a different spec which would affect the fight less than %0.5
With aug nerfs, augs are only buffing healer output by like 8% now (including source of magic), additionally Spriest's borrowed dmg from Aug was like 2x every other spec on the last 3 patches and Spriest isn't meta anymore, PI is gone and the meta likely won't revolve around 2m CD classes. Without an Spriest in the group Aug already (on live) doesn't bring as much DPS as a 3rd damage dealer, you can check all the top m+ logs in the world if you don't believe me.
I just can't see Augment bringing 1.5% phys DR to tanks and 8% healing for healers at the cost of actual DPS throughout being enough to bring them in whatever the new push meta comp is. Weyrnstone is also gone and blistering scales is especially less useful if people end up pushing on Guardian. Survivability is nice but at this point they're just not bringing that much more of it than some other classes while coming at the cost of throughput, and I think they're only appearing to bring viable damage on beta due to augmenting OP classes that are yet to be brought in line with tuning.
I could be wrong, but I don't think we're going to see much aug this patch.
keys are not gated behind dps checks but survivability checks and thats why aug is S+ and will stay S+
@@DeutschlandIstSchuld you didn’t read or didn’t understand.
The survival they provide for the group has been nerfed significantly AND they now come at the cost of damage. Mage/DK offer comparable survivability buffs without the damage loss.
Additionally, passing survivability checks in 21 keys are irrelevant if you fall short of the DPS checks by 30% anyway.
You have no idea what you’re talking about and are just parroting things you’ve heard other people say. Mathematically, it’s very unlikely Aug will remain S+.
Apply their beta nerfs to the current season and suddenly the group is failing survival checks and missing 3 key levels worth of damage as well.
@@fyregrass5348 cba arguing. youll see it in 2 months when aug will dominate the m+ ladder and realise how wrong you were.
@@DeutschlandIstSchuld I just gave you a perfectly valid explanation and your reply was "Okay but im still right"
Yea, you really can't be assed arguing indeed
Yeah thats a cool story bro but you clearly havent been playing beta because Aug is still extremely good in beta keys, and that includes its damage(and I can guarantee you its doing even more damage than whats shown on logs rn because theres no way everything is getting attributed correctly when plenty of specs have numerous bugs themselves) its very much competitive damage wise with any non Diabolist Warlock/Frost DK/Ret Pally(bugged rn) and every single tank is going to prefer playing with an aug even moreso now than before. You can mentally masturbate about "but aug doesnt bring as much survivability as before" all you want but the bottom line is it is absolutely still very much significant on beta(and every single tank will tell you the same thing...they 100% prefer to play with an Aug in beta keys, compared to not playing with one) and it will for sure help enable pulling bigger and more aggressively, which is something tanks will 100% struggle to do this season in higher keys without an aug. And bigger and more aggressive pulls=faster key.
To be completely honest you sound completely clueless talking about how "I think Aug might be dead for m+" because the sentiment amongst those of us pushing high keys is the direct opposite of that - Aug isnt going anywhere as of right now.
Anyone else feel like, based on their own experience, Ret Paladins are criminally underrated? Like every time these tiers come out they rank them turbo mid, but every time i run with them they just absolutely destroy in keys. Feels weird.
If blizzard actually listened to feedback they would know how to balance aug. Everyone knows the real reason aug is invited to group at high level keys is because of the survivability it brings to everyone including tanks and healing power to healers. Make the dps support spec support only dps specs. It really is that easy. Then people wouldnt see them as an external defensive class to survive the incoming damage for super high dps specs that just don't have strong enough defensives to survive +25 and higher keys incoming damage.
Damn even with all the recent buffs Feral druid is still that low?
elemental shaman at B? lol more like C after what happened
have you tried elemental after the nerf? on the beta, not live
@@xlightninghawk6360 myself? No but watching streamers play it like BondD and Petko? Yes as those 2 are some of the best players. I legit just saw Petko do like 2 dungeons at Ele ( Farseer ) and even he said the class isn't as fun now after nerfs. Dude did 1.1m DMG over all while demo lock did 1.6m and Assassin rogue did 1.5m in a +12 key. He wasn't able to keep us and he's again, one of the best Ele players and very knowledgeable of the spec and class.
Obviously this is beta so this doesn't really matter since things will change before season 1 but currently until changes happen again Ele really did get the hammer when it comes to nerfs.
Background music is a little too loud btw.
so do you think that if i roll aug i will get easily accepted inot weekly 10 and 12;s
looks like you showered for this video, good job tettles
Rramged get a +1 tier boost imo because theres always some broken cheese where you stand on a pillar or move 30yd away and dodge 90% of mechanics. Although seems they've been somewhat proactively addressing it this time.
I’ll be playing my boomy and just feels a little bad that their in such a spot. Wish they reworked some of their talent placements.
do single target cc's work on mobs that aoe cc doesn't work on?
Until they remove all class raid buffs in m+ nothing will change around caster meta
Blizzard can change everything with one mini patch, this comes from someone who played each expansion. That is how they keep the game fresh, just play what you like.
i love playing arms! same playstyle for 6 years and nothing is getting changed in tww! 8 years of same gameplay, same rotation!
Hunter utility might not be great but I have always felt that they play "tank support" quite well, as in they can focus on assisting the tank (Threat on pull, Binding shot for kiting, more slows than actual stops until implosion trap was added). That type of utility just isn't as needed in today's WoW, and is made much more apparent and useful back in the days of classic where they would be the ones actually pulling for the tanks if it was ever dangerous for them to do so.
As a Surv hunter I am very excited to have implosion trap and the 3 target intimidate. Combine that with us being rather sturdy anymore and I think we can carve..butcher? our way through M+
Quick edit: Loved seeing you on the PoddyC and will have to check out the Bench! Thanks for the content Tettles
Intimidate is no longer 3 target
Sadge 😅
all i gotta say is max talked about WW monk once and it got a bunch of small buffs so its only up from here
so im playing Spriest still. got it. tier set looks too good for me not to
The arms nerf they dished out this week was insane, essentially 20% nerf to MS and Overpower and for the life of me I dont get why. The Fire nerfs also really confused me, its like they just dont want us to play Fire.
Ele shaman after those giga nerfs are just punishing to playing playing with that spec in any content raid or m+ or even pvp. If you hate somebody and you can tell what he need to play it's just elemental shaman, currently on beta its just that bad. You are out of your mind if you think ele is still hit even the B rank now on beta. Just check petko's beta m+ video after the nerf happened on beta.
Petko is a massive cry baby whiner about Ele when it's not even thst bad. His tier lists are a widely known joke.
@@wowcherub Hes one of the best Ele shammy players in the game. and after the Massive nerfs elemental isnt all that great anymore. Its still beta obviously so things will change but elemental without question fell from grace. If people had Ele at A tier before, its now clearly around C if not D now. Blizzard overnerfed the spec to the ground. if things stand as is come season 1, the best spec coming out of Shaman will be Resto
@@wowcherubbondd is also dooming hard and he gets title every season and usually tries really hard to make it work. Unfortunately now damage is bad but playstyle got hit hard too
Arcane/frost and ele sham because i want to pvp as well! Cheers!
destro A tier now?
Tier lists have always been funny to me 😂 showing spec that is c tier and it turns out people with making lists never played them correctly and they are s tier rofl . GG on the content tho, keeps non aware people entertained😂
I think you are overvaluing Aug. If I am wrong I will admit to it and I get that tanks got clapped, so their survivability buff is now worth more, but tanks generally find a way to function at high levels, even if it means them having to kite shit. The Aug will likely be used as crutch for teams that have trouble surviving +14's, but have the damage throughput to clear them with just two DPS, which is a hell of a niche and not representative of Mythic+ at high end.
The survivability Aug brings just isn't good enough to let your team fly through keys that would have killed them before. It's enough to be significant for groups that barely can't live some mechanics, but their lack of damage means they really can't be trusted into keys where the timer is ever in question.
In season 4 of DF, Augs let you do meaningfully bigger pulls to compensate for their lack of throughput, but because of the nerfs to their Ebon Might, the amount of power they give tanks and healers is also significantly smaller and the passive 2% dr and Blistering Scales are no longer a bonus on top of that. They are the whole reason to bring the spec now and it's just not enough at high end, in my estimation.
Again, I am willing to admit to being wrong here if I'm wrong, but Aug's impact has dwindled. Far gone are the days it flew your group through +3 levels higher keys than before like every week was push week.
Looking good with a beard dude.
Are we playing the Same Game
Feels good to be FDK right now, especially Breath build. Breath is so good that people are jealous about it. It's a major sour grape thing where people try to go "you're not good enough for Breath!!!!!! Reeee!"
Wait for the first tuning passes after release.
Nice! That's what I expected, the Druid main putting his favourite spec in the lowest tier. 😂 Beautiful!
I also love how mage and warlock always get the top spot since forever, shaman gets fucked and all that's missing is holy pally and Ret getting buffed af to make them meta (Holy) and A+ specs (Ret). You can just whip out the tier list of the last three expansions and it'll be about the same.
We love tier list season
Sad to see only 2 S tier and if destro does get nerfed the only one left with be aug.
If you’re not in the .01% meta then play what you have FUN playing. Everything is viable at most levels.
I hope enhance stays decent. Its super fun to play
I haven’t played mage since they removed rune of power so I might fuck around on that tbh. Might also play my ww.
its fun. but this frost build isn't fun. its brainless. boring. 0 skill expression. its icelance spam. try arcane tho, that shit is really fun
Nerf to death chill was a nail in the coffin. It’s awful since last tuning. Not sure where he’s getting the idea playing frostfire is a buff lol.
Ive seen multiple beta m+ runs, and balance seemed fine, both on aoe pulls and on bosses?
I have so much of a different experience then these rankings ... but I'll let bliz watch these rankings and adjust accordingly :) I'll be happy *grin*
Didn't Blizzard just destroy Aug in M+ with the latest tuning pass?
It was like a 6% damage nerf so not even close
no they went from top damage to pretty good damage
A couple people who dont understand how the specc worked said that.
Elemental is actually a C tier spec in mythic plus now because of all the movement you have to do and the best single target damage spec is extremely stationary, so on target dummies you may do OKish damage but in a real mythic plus setting you will be battle the tank on the damage meters. Its trash and will never be seen in mythic plus if launched like this.
Balance is doing 550k dps single target. Ele is doing around 750k. Not the same buddy.
@@Fermpm And how do you do 750k single target dps as elemental shaman. Its not even possible to do that on a target dummy over a 7 minute period. Stop trolling
@@eliotness107why would you test for 7 minutes 😂
I liked the music choice personally. Reminded me of like. Pokémon emerald.
Should watch kalamazi's video before trying to explain the issue with destro...
Remember, DON'T LISTEN TO WHAT HE SAYS ABOUT MOONKIN. Moonkins are LIARS! He's fishing for buffs!
You don't play or know ele.verybwell do you?:) if you did you'd know that even after the need ele is amongst the best DPS in beta atm. At least if we're taking m+
They should in a Single Target Talent for shadow where which each mind blast the „ghost guy“ doing more dmg maybe for Boss hp 100-80 and 20-0 and for pvp you Can make this like the corruption guy where you Can cc them
Perfect, all 3 specs I play are in C tier.
We dig the beard;)
Been looking forward to the tierlists, let’s go
thanks tettles
I hate to even say this out loud, BUT I think there is some untapped value here in the tier lists. Considering everyone makes these “disclaimers” about high and low keys for the classes while also now the game is set up in a under ten & over ten format… you should prob make tier lists for over ten meta cutting edge and and tier list for under ten and how the classes now act different in these key environments. Because lets be real, its two different games and every knows it . Plus aug wont be at the top of the list for the under ten general communty tier list
What do you think about Havoc DH's best hero talent? Aldrachi or Fell scarred.
DK's unite
This "target capped" argument matters only in super high end korean style 25+ mythics and 99.9% players runnying 10's and 15's are not affected at all by it. Lets take C tier bm hunter as example here from mythic raider running mid tier mythics with friends for weakly vault. Your group pull 2 packs max running smootly from one pack to next to finish in time and not taking any risks. In that scenario you damage is perfectly fine and on top of that you bring lust you bring traps, stuns, range interrupt, trank-dispel mobs binding arrow, aoe knockup for hard interupt. You do your damage at range while moving. Well played hunter that uses all its kit is problem solver for the entire group. when i play dk dps or a lock and someone makes mistake there is little i can do. 99% people play in mid to high range of mythics. In that braket its S tier for pugging or guild "hey anyone want to do weeekly mythics?" group.
I disagree with all tier lists right now. It's too early to determine actual performance because there are constant changes during beta. With unintroduced updates that will be patched in sometime soon, these tier lists aren't a true indication of performance. For instance, monks are getting damage buffs and many QoL and bug fixes. It's going to be very different for them very soon. I think that they're going to be a sleeper spec.
play what you want these tier lists are purely person to person
Bad advice, if you play a real bad dps class you dont get invited to keys
at least rogue doesn't seem to be all 3 at the very bottom
surprised you didn't put boomie at the bottom of c-tier honestly
Peyton has spoken!
This tier list is only ranking classes based on dps output for the most part. Definitely not reflective of meta m+ candidates
Aug staying king is enough to put irreversible damage on m+
All my specs in C Poggies
These Tier List count nothing. Relax
My entire group plan is C tier lmao
Elemental in B. Have you seen the gameplay since the nerf. That spec was gutted, bottom 3 right now bud.
Also earth ele literally received no changes for elemental going from DF to TWW. What we did receive is bulwark totem and season winds. One is very situational Dr.
disable raid buffs in m+
Another patch of affliction being hyped, to turn out worst option cause dev loves spamming rain of fire
how did I know instantly before the video even started you would drop boomkin straight into the lowest tier lmao
I know it’s whack to comment before watching but the thumbnail… man I just want to lock in Feral for one season and not feel like a fool.
Edit: Alright, B! We take those
Why ret is bad?
LoL Blizzard Warwithin Expansion is so fkin bad as of right now. Pre Patch Frost dk is busted and svr is busted. Warrior 2pc s3 and 2pc s4 is somewhat OP lol.
I doubt Aug will be that good after the latest nuke.
My guess they will rework it after season 1
Aug is still incredibly strong. The nerf from this week was only 6%ish
@@Tettles I thought it was closer to 20% nerf + the removal of clutchmates
The nerfs only removed some of the aug spreading its offensive power through the group. Their personal damage is significantly higher in TWW than previously. I've tested it a decent amount in beta and the throughput is still perfectly relevant.
And the problem is Aug will still be S tier just on the support its giving to the tank and healer
Ebon might is only part. Precience alone increases dps by 18%
We need an update!!!