@@glenndoiron9317 i agree priests need a kick, but doesn't a stun do the same thing? stops casting. and mobs get right back to casting that spell even with kicks nowadays - after kicks from all classes.
@@kerkertrandov459 most paladin heals (Holy Shock, Word of Glory, Holy Prism) are all instant casts. Empowered Holy Lights through Infusion of Light cast faster, but not fast enough.
@@MrDoctorDave Unless you are seriously tracking CDR on armaments with LS AC, there's really no reason to ever cast FoL nor HL unless you messed up your position, and you have judgement,Prism and your both HS charges on CD. I only ever use Fol for quick CDR for armaments is there is absolutely nothing happening and I still have infusions left, or to get more by prepping seconds in advance of a pull.
hpal got their rework in DF and felt so good....for a month...until they nerfed, nerfed, nerfed, and now they don't know what they want to do with the class again.
if a rework feels good until a nerf, it was not a good rework in the first place. Good reworks still play good, even after the honeymoon and balancing phase.
honestly at start of tww with herald it felt pretty good, too. was too strong maybe, yes. But blizzard nerfed/buffed the wrong stuff and here we are with AC lightsmith now (which gets nerfed) and the same old problematicly weak basetoolkit. Holy shock/spemders are wet noodles again.
The first nerf was numbers which is fine. Then they nerfed by removing the abilities that made the rework fun in the first place. Not every nerf is just number tuning. The basically reworked the rework into garbage
@@roflixo 10.1.5 rework was never a good rework to begin with, just insanely OP at the time. Many of the changes they did were kind of reverted with TWW beta, when they had to rework the spec AGAIN. And then we were back to square 1.
@@thomasr.7398 it was strong only because Dawnlight was bugged in raid and Light of the martyr was not being properly logged. And they nerfed holy shock and WoG by like 15% and then nerfed Virtue and now the spec has been through reworks and feels like a mess
MW devs should be forced to do high keys with dps that have like a single defensive like boomkins. Especially before they nerfed tank busters and the many buffs they did to our damage in small incriments over the course of the season. They'd be begging for pain suppression or barkskin/ironbark (i forget,) and only taking frost mage, dk, prot pal, and ret pal as their team comp cause there was (and kinda still is) way too many things that cannot be outhealed or survived without a damage reduction. I feel like blizz devs don't play the game at all or if they do they don't talk to the dungeon design team nearly enough. Whoever tests healers is likely locked in a broom closet with a flickering light bulb that randomly turns on and off while testing +2 keys with god mode on.
@@Aoibhinn-mw MW dev is insanely good rn, they're making that spec better and better each day, sure life cocoon isnt a great external but hey atleast its an external, cant say the same for say resto sham.
I’m so happy with the changes they are making to the Druid side of my talents 😭 All the talents i am choosing on PTR are talents I actually want and are going to use 😭
As main Prevoker 3k, I think the changes to Flameshaper aren’t enough to consider using it instead of Chronowarden. Chronowarden fits really well in m+, with the changes it gives to the class. Hover converts to a blink (you can avoid some mechanics/damage), Hover gives a little defensive, almost all the time with +5% intellect, Tip the Scales haste buff, Cooldown reduction, Echo buff and chronoflames appearing everytime you do a empowered spell.
Im glad i got back into disc priest these last two weeks. Its like the end of dragonflight again and i get to enjoy my time until i switch into fistweave 😂
Dont need that, just nerf aoe skills for m+ and nerf ST skills for raid. And for healers u can nerf aoe healing past 5 targets for raid. M+ and raid are very easy to balance. For example (i havent played paladin) pala's avenger shield gives him nonstop interrupts in m+ but is useless in raid. So if u nerf that, pala becomes weaker in m+ without becoming weaker in raid. Or if guardian druid is very strong, u can nerf maul which nerfs raid but keeps m+ the same as they dont use maul much there. U dont need separate modifiers like in pvp, just target the right skills.
as a resto shaman main for years, I always wonder what the design philosophy is at Blizzard that they think Disc priest can literally forget they have a mana bar yet I have to drink 20 times per key. Like.. why? I do half Disc's damage and I can't heal as much, yet my spells cost 10 times as much, hmk?
Yea disc in shadowlands was the hungriest little mana goblin. And their throughput was a bit less than other healers. They heavily relied on their defensive and pre planning shields with rapture. Back when disc shields were actually good and their single target heal also damaged you lol. What a time to be a priest.
@@CapucineAbadieI mained hpally for SL and we could ignore the mana bar, even now hpally doesn’t have much of an issue with it. I play rsham now for TWW and have to do the sneaky drink between pulls lol
On Holy Priest on the PTR tonight using Sustained Potency, Eternal Sanctity, and Answered Prayers, I can push Apotheosis to last upwards of about 1.5 minutes. I am getting like 20-30 second gaps of apoc not being up... it's a little nutty. That's very different for hpriest.. will be real interesting to see how well that carries through but deeammn it's pretty rad.
How is Trail of Light on PTR? Still broken and showing as the top heal? Is it still healing everyone not just one? I wonder what H Priest will be like in PTR once it gets fixed....
@@Csoery So very powerful! I just saw in other videos that it's healing everybody not just the previous target you healed so they were saying it's broken. If/when this gets fixed, it'll be nerfing it big time. TBH, I like the idea of it healing everybody and not just the pervious target you healed. :P
I think with 4pc this could turn hpriest into a holy word turret, landing insurance on a whole lot of people. I’m not mad at that idea, but I’m not sure how viable it will be, because it’ll require intentional overhealing at times to keep apoc up… but again I’m not mad at that lol
@@w_3ird0h Do you really think taking Sustained Potency over Energy Compression will be better? I just can't believe that! But the 4 pc does all hinge on Apoc being active but that's just crazy.
The questionable direction they they are going with the Hpal nerfs and buffs is the reason why i gave up the Siren patch and will likely be sitting out Undermine(d) and playing other games. I don't feel like struggling real hard again because the spec is just designed stupidly and I have no desire to reroll again.
@@codycurtin2295 what you really ment is, play the flavor of the season healer when hpally is shit. its not about it being fun its about finding the cookiecutter/bis healer haha
Same. My 2 main healers for the last 2 exps have been hpal and monk. Monk was always a bit of fun and hpal was my main but i've pretty much ditched my pally completely now. Any pushing I do, it's straight on the monk. It is a shame as I fell in love with hpal early DF (before the 1st rework i might add) but it really feels like they hate the spec as the amount of constant nurfs they've had since that 1st rework is unbelievable. Pushing towards a caster-centric play style is absolutely the wrong move and might just kill any interest in hpal again. Such a shame.
@@Defocus_ for a lot of people it is but I really try to go by how much fun I have. DEFINITELY a lot of overlap with meta because of I'm struggling the whole time I am just miserable plain and simple. But for instance this patch resto sham is nutso but I just wasn't enjoying either riptide or totems so I played dps. I usually cycle between Hpal, Disc, and Fistweaver
Druid tree change seems ok, but I switched from resto to boomy to actually play the game, and Im not sure how much better the output will be with mastery change. We will see, if we get invited to any keys that is. 😅
I fell in love with monk before ll.07 buffs than we got even more buffs! now were looking really good fingers crossed we dont get nerfed other wise ill go back to my resto druid
Of the healers I've played this season, i ended up maining mist just because it feels so good to control my mana economy. I put down my hpal cause I'd run out of man's in like 4 minutes having to solo heal pugs. Pres is fun, but makes me hate life in Keys. I've been a priest main since tbc and the class as a whole just feels 10 years out of date
Hpal has blessing of winter but it def can be underwhelming. They should buff it to 2% max mana per second (is 1% currently) maybe and see how it plays. Unlike mana tea it can't actually replace drinking before an intense boss fight imo. It can get you through some times depends really on team comp and the boss. Last boss of cot? Def want to drink ime. Last boss of arak? Prolly gonna be fine.
Resto shaman is super fun, totems do the work for u and u have a button for everything plus the best interrupt in the game. If it had a few less buttons it would be perfect. Also dmg rotation is giga easy, u have 3 buttons.
Every single time I'm doing some +10s weeklies on my prevoker I filter groups into almost filled (3/0/1), and join those that have 3 melee dps. I'm not chasing the warlock who decided to use his entire range and blasts from 40y away.
I played mistweaver at beginning of the season as a healer twink. It didn't feel right. Since a few days ago I was completely oblivious to the jade empowerment and crackling lighting thing. This thing is lit! combined with a switch to harmony hero talents and this thing that lets the channel jump with your instant heals it's just brutally fun. I out do some tanks in DMG and heal everything. Just great. Single target boss fights we're the challenging part because I opted out of sheilons gift completly. But with the rework of jade empowerment to be a better grp heal in single target situations and this thing that reduces the CD on revival......it's to much . If this goes live mist weaver will burn like a supa Nova for a sort time and then will be nerfed to the ground.
Shouldn't be the case though. The buffs MW recieved are just corrections to lacking talents, plus if you compare it to other healers , it's utility is lacking. That's we are being called Raw output healers - and nerfing a class that already lacks utility compared to all others AND it's a melee healer would be devastating. I wouldn't put it past Blizz, but MW was already lacking behind other healers in TWW ( talking raid + M+ )
Hpal has been non stop horrible to play since its rework in DF S2. Then in beta they reworked the spec YET ANOTHER TIME and it didn't even got to live until it was dismantled once again. On 11.0.5 got unintended buffs and enabled AC/LS that while not perfect, was fun and a bit of fresh air since Herald sucks now, and of course they had to kill AC anytime is remotely relevant. Why not deleted it at this point? Both hero specs are awful and unfun to play now. 2 Failed reworks in 4 seasons, blizz is peaking here. They just don't know what to do with the spec.
@@kerkertrandov459 I literally play all healers except for Holy priest. No other healer had 2 reworks in 4 seasons and still feels terribly designed, except for maybe disc joining the ranks next season.
R.I.P Disc Priest… if these new changes go through without major adjustments I will lose faith in Blizzard forever. Might be nice to have an extra $15 for beer money that I’ll drink in a night. Not sure what to do with the other 27 days every month though.
Holy Priest has potential to be a real winner if they can stick the landing on some of these changes. A particular pain point for me is that the bottom row contains some interesting tools, like Divine Word, but with Lightweaver being more or less mandatory it’s just too costly to get some of those tools as matters stand.
I'm so sick of Lightweaver gameplay. It isn't fun. I would rather see Lightwell heal for a little bit more. That might make it more viable, it would also pair well with Prayer of Mending/Renew builds by having greater passive healing. Also buff Prayer of Healing slightly to make it more viable. Gameplay would be to keep PoM on CD, spread renews, drop Lightwell for more passive hots, and utilize Flash Heal/Serenity for massive single target healing where necessary, and Sanctify/Prayer of Healing for filler aoe heals. Edit - Forgot to mention - Divine Image is WAY past it's prime. It's less enjoyable than Lightweaver, does not feel impactful and needs to go IMO.
Lightweaver even at its worst state is better than Light Well. I feel you on the disappointment and can only hope for better. Even with the buffs to Renew, it's still needs a bit more to stay useful.
Blizzard workflow : rework a spec until the gameplay if finally fun and fluid. Let ppl enjoy that spec for 3 months. Destroy all that work for some reason cause you hate when ppl have fun playing your game
As a tank player healing felt really easy, u just chilling in the background doing the aoe hps check every 45 seconds and not much else the rest of the time. Meanwhile as a tank u blink and ure ded. Defensive down? Ded. Glad they're making healers harder to match the difficulty of tanking, if ure pussy that cant handle challenges go play dps.
Man disc in recent times has just been feeling so bad bot talking about strength but how it feels. Smite spamming and only having like 4 buttons is so bad. Wild how they keep changing my all time favorite healer into just something mid
To be clear, in a casual pug environment (M+ 8-12) I don’t like playing pres, and I don’t like have pres in my group. It always seems like hunters or mages or ele will get randomly dropped. Bc they are outside of range (1st boss in Ara is a good example). And while I don’t think that’s the fault of the pres, these kinds of issues don’t exist for other healers. Also, it seems to be a harder spec to pick up and play as an alt/offspec. Not super relevant, tbh, bc it’s true for all healers to a certain extent. And any Pres with normal ilvl and io is gonna know how to play their class. But I’ve seen newbie Pres (including myself at the start of every season) really struggle with CD management, and even proper execution of the CD. I would compare Avenging Crusader and Chi-Ji to Stasis. They all have kinda the same CD. But the melee ones are way easier to execute as a first time to the spec. Even though Stasis is the coolest and most fun and versatile healer CD it requires you to understand your class and incoming damage/healing profiles in a way that other classes don’t and instead can just muscle through with kicks and crusader strikes. Lastly, RIP all Pres who die VEing a target in a frontal/swirlie. Therefore, imo, I think Pres is, on average, a bad choice in fully pugged 8-12 keys. Not bc the spec is bad/underpowered/unfun but bc the game system is essentially working against the playstyle.
What about Disc going Oracle for Twinsight Penance providing Aegis shields since casts would also go on allies? And focus on Crit/Haste rather than Haste/Mastery?
I believe that the priest changes are not nerfs, but buffs depending on how people play the spec, like the way I play the specs, these are major buffs to priests.
I will probably reroll my disc its getting worse and worse in every patch and looks like its finally dead.Only thing i see here is nerfs there is not a single good thing for disc in this rework.I mean they are but 3 more sec attoment or eva burst heal is just not even impactfu.I prefer anything removed over this 2 combined
Wish they'd get holy priests back to how they were in TBC. No holy words just pure healing - chosing the best spell for the situation and not just spamming a ridiculous heal for cooldown reduction
Yeah, the changes for holy priest are definitely in the right direction but they fumbled a bit. They were perhaps worried about PoH being too strong with Lightweaver so they only buffed its terrible base by 40%, but on PTR its still only doing like 250k per person at 670il. Now with resonate words and the other 75% buff talent i saw a 1mil crit heal on PoH but thats a LOT of set up and luck. Renew still heals for pitiful amounts, the talents surrounding it arent worth taking except Benediction (mainly cuz what else will you take that early and its in the way of other talents) and the FIVE capstone talents are just a mess of a design for the layout of the tree. With the numbers I was seeing its very possible that you end up with only 1 capstone (Lightweaver) and rely on PoM, Dispersing Light, and Cosmic ripple to handle small aoe damage, and then use sanctify lightweaver+resonate word PoHs for heavy damage, and remain Heal/Flash Heal during downtime. The big push for Apoth means we SHOULD take answered prayers but its in such a terrible spot that it kinda seems like its not worth going for. You lose out on other goodies that are just helpful more of the time than a random 8 second buff. They need to swap answered prayers with Lightwell, and possibly make more of the talent nodes 1/1 instead of 2/2.
the biggest fix to holy priest would be to cut all cd’s by 70% (faster cd) and 2.75x more cast speed gain from haste or cut cast times for non instant cast spells in half.. these would majorly help fix holy priest without having to overhaul dungeons to correct for blizz fkups with holy spec .. or put high(er) haste stat numbers on tier gear
No longer buffing the healer w ebon might is huge for healers. Damage numbers can always change but not buffing a healer is incredibly impactful for us
@@AutomaticJak I agree with this as I already struggle sometimes to justify taking aug to certain keys like Mists. If a dps dies on mistcaller the aug just feels bad cause all the bosses in mist need pure dps to force phase change or else it's a brick. The aug can make people a little tankier for like a few problem things but most of these things up to 15 where around I try to play you don't really need an aug, what you need is for the clone to die faster. In 16 supposedly you start to need an aug and big healer damage to push but I haven't gotten there yet, but def harder for me to imagine justifying aug that isn't at least making me and the tank *also* do more damage and healing, because that's actually pretty helpful. and plus I think some teams pushing like 17 or so have done it without an aug, so if I don't need an aug hypothetically to time keys, and the aug isn't helpful for these single target dps checks that brick keys, and the aug doesn't buff me and the tank, then why would I take the aug except to a place like stonevault? Wouldn't spriest with PI and off healing and stuff be better? It could be ig since skill matters more than spec but I pug mostly so it's a tough decision.
Hey Jak, one thing you didn't talk much about are tier set except for disc. There's still time for them to change but the evoker one for example is really bad. It makes verdant embrace apply a hot but it can't even echo, shows how much thought were put into them. I think only the hpal one sounds fun with the divine toll cd reduction, I hope they rework most of them. I. I really dislike the shared 2p idea, especially for healers.
Hpal already felt really scuffed at the start of season1, it felt somewhat fun and playable (no where near top tier) with the light-smith changes halfway through the season, and now they’re nerfing it into the ground again. I really don’t want to go back to casting 😢.
Right with ya on that one, I just simply cannot comprehend Blizzard's unyielding need to continuously boop Holy Pally in the head with nerfs, especially to a well received playstyle. I get that there's a group that loves caster paladin and their opinions are valid, but why can't the Holy Pally dev create a tree that caters to two differ playstyles like MW monk? Now terrible changes to disc....There's already a healer shortage and now it's gonna propagate that even more. Blizz also said they were trying to reduce the amount of burst healing for this season at the beginning of the expansion and that never happened lol.
@@kerkertrandov459 I play all three roles and play 7 different classes, tank and healers are both in shortage. What point are you trying to make other than being toxic?
@@Soulmatic25 that making healers harder isnt a bad thing as it will match tank difficulty. Healers and tanks arent meant to be easy, go play dps if u wanna afk press same 5 button over and over
@@kerkertrandov459 If you're struggling as a tank, maybe try playing a different role instead? As a tank you need to know dungeon route, percentage of mobs, tank busters, and positioning. It's a thankless role, without a doubt, but it's not difficult at all with the right knowledge. Can faceroll as a blood DK or Prot pally, shrugs.
Holy Priest belong in the "L" catagory. So far, PoH is far too weak (plus too mana costly), it's not viable. Renew is far too weak, it's not viable. In a M+ enviornment, we still lack AOE healing, defensives, an interrupt, mobilty. All of the same issues we currently have. The bottom of the tree...too many good options but not enough points to take them all, it's a mess! Disc will still be the better choice in a M+ envoirnment over Holy by far! As far as raids....they removed Salv!
@@AutomaticJak I did notice that our holy words have improved, especially sanctify which is great but you alluded in other videos to them potentially getting nerfed so I am worried to it'll get nerfed plus I thought they were really aiming to make PoH and Renew strong for us which it's completely flopped so far. Overall disappointed with the changes for Holy and fear we will still be the worst healer out there for keys in season 2.
@@PyroFortune I agree! Heck, even S4 DF was great imo. Big problem is, dungeons arent like they used to be. Now, it's all about getting through heavy bursts of party wide AOE damage every pull and constantly needing to move around. This expansion has been the worst I have ever experienced as an Hpriest main since Vanilla. We are still in dire need of help! Guess it's time to reroll monk.....
This tier list is just speculations nothing is tested at the point to mark what is the best tier list, unless there is enough data test and logs, could be so different.
@@AutomaticJak I know, but the issue is now in discord channels from healers they are thinking this is going to be, and I know is their fault how to interpret that, but also I think you should say that at least in the preview picture of the image...
Holy light as paladin feels good to cast, but only the quick one buffed by holy prism, not the normal ones, even in bfa where we had the strong infusion that buffed crit on flash of light, casting those fast and quick spells always felt good in between holy shocks, I wish we went back to that kind of weaving in between, if they want paladins to cast.
Name a more iconic duo than the ever-whiny priest mains and their eternal quest to be the almighty, untouchable gods of M+...I'll wait. One spell gets removed, and it's 'literally unplayable' while Hpala, MW, and Resto have been yo-yoing between F-tier disasters and A-tier powerhouses for multiple seasons due to entire playstyle reworks without breaking out the world's smallest violin.
Hpala on live is in its worst state since M+ got introduced into the game. In top 5000 M+ runs, hpala is the only spec not showing up ONCE, and for good reason too. So what does Blizz do? Nerfs it, and forces hpala out of its final frontier - melee. Guess Elle won't be swapping back to holy for 11.1 kek
Just giving up on hpal this season. The fact this spec has and is getting nerfed still, is unbelievable. Spec is unplayable. Blizz hates paladin players
Played Holy pal on ptr and herald felt pretty good. Holy light actually feels decent to press without procs and with infusion + divine favor it felt like a mini lay on hands. Flash of light just feels absolutely useless however, hopefully they tune it. It’s also a shame how they’re treating light smith, that hero spec seems unusable with these changes
I would put evoker in the "big win" tier. Evoker utility is too good to not include in a group with zephyr probadly being the best group cooldown in high keys, aug falling out of meta and disc getting big nerfs. So the most logical step would be putting the evoker on the heal spot next season. best contenders might be druid and monk
if aug were to ever fall out of the meta, and evoker utility was THAT important, you would be more likely to take dev evoker if its damage is good (which it almost always has been, excluding the first half of this season and the very start of DF S3) because they can put source of magic on whatever healer is in the group. pres players can't put source of magic on themselves, and it is a core part of why aug is strong, plus if mistweaver/disc is meta they get more benefit from source of magic than other healers. pres would have to be VERY overtuned to be meta, sad but true
@@SirPhilMcCrackinVonBeggington first thing i have heared from the PTR is that aug is just doing around 90% of the damage of a third DPS and that would definitly mean aug falling out of the "best meta group"
Holy Paladin Main here. 2600 I.O. I am very sad blizzard keeps doing this crap, Look I get it... a group of HP don't want to play AC build and want a more caster oriented build. Rather than Nerfing AC they should just buff Herold and make that the "Caster" build if people feel they like that play style better! This would be the perfect opportunity for them to separate what both play styles with the hero talents! I am a ride or die Holy Paladin so despite these nerfs I will still be playing it next season, but man is it gonna feel bad trying to get into pugs. Right now I am 638 Ilvl that still gets passed sometimes for "Meta" healers, even if they are lower than me and have less Rating than me. Feels Bad.
@@kerkertrandov459 On that same note a good player can perform well regardless of what spec they are playing. All specs are viable in content that 99.9% of the playerbase is capable of playing. Realistically in the vast majority of content, it doesn't matter. More often than not I see bad players constantly hopping from meta character to meta character barely knowing how to play them, just copy pasting some Icy Veins talent build because a UA-cam video said x spec does the best damage and then they end up having sub-par performance. I think it's better to have a handful of classes you intimately understand.
Holy paladin is in a weird spot being a melee class. I don't bring hpals because I play with another melee spec and if you only have 1 ranged in the group it can make some keys way harder than they should like ara kara
2600 io Hpal here with a sub 630 ilevel. I will never play AC build, I can’t stand smart heals. But also, Ellesmere, the literal #1 Hpal in the world has cleared +15s as Herald because he prefers it, so Herald isn’t really bad to begin with. Personally, I love the agency to decide where my heals are going, so even if Herald were the literal worst spec in the game, I’d still play it, and likely get 2500+ fairly easily.
@@lWreylwhile true, I play the spec I want to play regardless of if they’re the FOTM or not, it does prevent you from getting into groups a lot compared to fotm classes like the OP mentioned.
@@seikanekasinhaving to sequence 6 casts to build modifiers and ramp for damage before executing your rotation then doing your rotation is not just “having spells” it’s having TOO many spells
@@seikanekasin yeah but i felt like playing something in 10.1 disc is just a smite spam class now and its getting worse everyday.I remember that at fyrakk CE kill ı was watching a show while spamming smite, its just boring.
@@dege4261 they made it worse though by making mind blast a even longer cd, like i dont understand the people who go "We have button bloat- but also i hate smite spam." like... smite spam was blizzards solution to the "Button Bloat" I personally want to see us get more dps spells not less.
Hpal is being pushed in a direction that feels similar to Dragon flight Season 3/4. Mana issues and casting to generate holy power and conserve mana doesn't seem so far off again especially with herald. Tested my hpal on healing dummies it took me just over 4mins to oom myself going all out with healing spenders can't wait :) Maybe I just need more mp5 kekw
like you said PTR is not open when recored this but testing holy priest in PTR m+ feels good healing pumping and stuff butt its still holy just like Rdruid just healing pumper
Rdruid has lots of utility, aoe roots, cyclones, typhoons, incap roar, aoe ms buff, stun, sleep, soothe etc. All priest has is a shitty fear. Rdruid is def not a pumper.
Oracle Disc, big fat F_! Managed to kill 6/8M playing Oracle Disc. Havent tried it on Silken yet, but oh boy it's over now unless something is going to chance. Thanks for video, like always.
@@kerkertrandov459 disc is always good with good groups ı never seen a disc priest topping in raid or being good in pugs.Even tho it performed good in high keys blizzard didnt need to burry the spec in a coffin.Now its dead in every aspect of game.I would still play if they did a decent nerf now i dont even wanna have the char i just want to delete it
I think I’m in the minority here and maybe heavily healer-brain poisoned. But I think the way the different specs manage mana is really cool and gives you a metric to progress against yourself. Like as Rsham I find it fun to try to maximize the most out of buffs and throughput and not overheal etc to have enough mana. And then drinking water in my rain totem feels very thematic LMAO. I also love casually slow walking and drinking my mana tea as the fire mage explodes in flames, the UH dk is going insane and the Aug is blasting off. And Hpal is cool to rotate through the seasons and then blowing a buncha mana through virtue and WoGs and being able to conserve a lot of mana by rotating through AC and awakening. Deride me all you want. :P I know it’s niche and DPS and tanks hate waiting for me to drink, but I have my water keybound and i encourage the tank to keep pulling and not wait for me. (I try to be ahead of the pull, close to the next one anyway). I also understand that just because I like the mechanic. Doesn’t mean that it’s good. Or even that it’s good for the game and meta. Hahahah
Your post for sure has got to be bait. Homogenize mana either all healers have to drink/deal with mana issues or none of them do so fking boring not being able to play virtue on mythic progress bosses that take longer than a couple of minutes, same goes for m+ why can i run an entire key on my rsham alt (which has more utility, better damage and bloodlust PLUS windfury/mastery group buff and not go oom, but my paladin has to run into all these arbitrary walls? What part about this is "fun" class/game design? It's not unique, it's annoying, you're for sure in the minority with this god awful take.
@@Gongshown yeah I don’t raid, so i don’t have any opinion on that aspect. Hpal is also my most recent alt and I only do casual 8’s and 10s so it’s not like it’s been an overwhelming burden for me personally. Plus I think timing the seasons buff is a pretty cool vibe and trying to get the most out of a nearly depleted mana bar. I agree it’s not’s “good” gameplay. But I find it fun. It’s not bait. Some people just enjoy the game differently. :) 🤗 Although I do agree that they should standardize the mana management like you said. That is a good idea for getting more ppl to heal.
Can we bloody fire the person that is pushing for Hpala becoming a caster class. We are at this circle for multiple expansions now. It is made into a caster, nobody likes it, avenging wrath is brought back. People are happy, blizzard in their infinite wisdom come back to the casting that nobody likes. WHY. LIKE. WHY?
So sad to see these changes to disc. I've been playing Shadow for many seasons and were finally considering shifting into the healer role with Disc because i like the gameplay, but never got used to the ramp in a raid environment when just healing a random every few months, and then this happened. In the beginning i was excited to see this many changes to Disc, but reading through them and hearing someone that know them analyze them has been disappointing to say the least :( Guess i'm sticking to Shadow, or going warlock or something /shrug
As a Resto shaman main, overall the changes are not good enough to make them decent. It is just an L overall. The talents and building to the new talent nodes are rough. We need a rework or revamp of the spec.
@@KennyFalmouth506 actually it wasnt you just need to have a disc in high end keys otherwise raid healing was shit pug wise it was shit everything was shit about disc.But whatever the disc s situation spec can do high end keys no matter what with cordinated groups.
i use monk different. im not focused on tons of dmg im focused on raw healing output and ive saved groups plenty of times that i know for a fact fistweaving wouldnt have provided enough output. focus weavers bend more on the hps output more so than dps where as fistweavers focus on dps. im ripping close to 4mil hps and i can straight up overpower 12 keys like a joke. im considered a non meta spec player yet i crank harder than any monk i have ever seen, i have more control over your hp bar than any other healer in the game period.
I feel that beacon should be stronger on 5 man, so you're not pigeon holed into using the beacon of virtue. Sort of like the disc fix. It's kind of simple really... If the double beacon can safely keep 2 dps up the hardcasting Hpal will be A-tier.
Share your sentiments with Holy Pally completely. AC getting neutered feels awful, and caster melee healer is not the right direction for the spec. I enjoy both Herald and Lightsmith equally, and hope that tuning keeps them relevant. Getting flashbacks to S2->S3 Dragonflight with how they handled Hpal, except this time Hpal was not Overpowered.
Finally decided to pick up a healer a few weeks go since the last time i healed in shadowlands because it was fun leveling as disc only for it to get made unfun in the next patch, gotta love blizzard
You said Holy and Disc Priest were gutted in S1 and look now at Disc ? lol This is just the beginning of the PTR cycle so I guess good time for engagement farming
Disc was really bad in beta and only got good after they massively buffed its healing output at the start of the xpac :) I made videos covering the rise of disc and everything Holy is currently one of the worst healers in S1
imagine if u just reduce your Mindbender with no penance itself, but with every bolt of penance... oracle will take a new aspect, shields CDR and Rapture remove is bigL.... feel really bad... maybe they can check how shield healers work in FF14... scholar and sage are my favorite healers across all MMOs
My god yes! Disc used to have a talent called divine aegis, it gave a shield to your target when you crit healed them and it worked with aoe heals too (still not a recitation adlo spread, but pretty cool) It was the closest thing wow had to scholar and it was freaking awesome. Scholar is the most fun healer I have ever played in any mmo also. Unmatched fun factor. And disc used to play pretty similarly to scholar back in wrath and cata. But blizz has to be dumb, and make things frustrating and wonky all the time.
As a holy paladin main, I'm just disapointed :( I wish to be decent again just for once. The last season of df and the first of tww have felt really rough. Thinking about rerolling to mistweaver at this point..
I think people should actually be given a choice. I mean, it cannot be that hard to design a game where a paladin or monk can choose whether to spec more heavily into casted healing or dps healing. Blizz can do it, they just refuse to spend their "new patch island" money on anything but that...
I Love mw and play it every season, regardless of bad or good, but I'm scared of what their doing to it. I absolutely love the changes, but I have a feeling that the nerf hammer will destroy all the goo work they did. The lightening change is good, but wasaaay too strong as well as master of harmony dmg. I just hope they nerf the right things and don't ice us the hpal season 2 experience. Edit: I also hope that they kinda keep the throughput, because that's all that mw has. The phys dmg buff is way to weak (and also enforces ways more restricted comps) as well as their utility. Once mw doesn't hit the throughput requirements anymore, they are completely dead in keys
Im so happy that Lightsmith gets nerfed. "Meta" on Hpal is broken and Herald of the Sun will be more welcome pugs. Herald feels better anyways (In my opinion at least), just the throughput is lower than lightsmith on current patch.
Click this link sponsr.is/AutomaticJak and use my code AUTOMATICJAK to get 25% off your first payment for boot.dev.
Disc priests: we need a kick
Blizz: okay, we’ll remove Rapture
100% my first thought when I saw tank Brann. "Still won't be able to play nonshadow in delves due to no interupt on my priest"
We were not specific enough, blizz thought we meant a kick in the teeth.
@@RunicSoulEater Holy has Chastise..
@@SirPhilMcCrackinVonBeggington which is a stun, not an interrupt. the mobs get right back to casting that spell as soon as they're out of it.
@@glenndoiron9317 i agree priests need a kick, but doesn't a stun do the same thing? stops casting. and mobs get right back to casting that spell even with kicks nowadays - after kicks from all classes.
It's crazy how big of a difference it is when a class has a good dev that understands the issues with the spec and how to fix them
As a Holy Pal, if I have to cast a Holy Light to save someone, 4/5 times they die mid cast.
Use instant cast then like priest's Power Word Life (i dont play paladin xd)
Holy Light could be removed from the game and I wouldn't even notice, with how often I find an appropriate time to use it.
@@kerkertrandov459 most paladin heals (Holy Shock, Word of Glory, Holy Prism) are all instant casts. Empowered Holy Lights through Infusion of Light cast faster, but not fast enough.
@@Myrrkat I only cast when I have an infusion but honestly I should just use those procs on flash of lights to get some holy power.
@@MrDoctorDave Unless you are seriously tracking CDR on armaments with LS AC, there's really no reason to ever cast FoL nor HL unless you messed up your position, and you have judgement,Prism and your both HS charges on CD. I only ever use Fol for quick CDR for armaments is there is absolutely nothing happening and I still have infusions left, or to get more by prepping seconds in advance of a pull.
hpal got their rework in DF and felt so good....for a month...until they nerfed, nerfed, nerfed, and now they don't know what they want to do with the class again.
if a rework feels good until a nerf, it was not a good rework in the first place. Good reworks still play good, even after the honeymoon and balancing phase.
honestly at start of tww with herald it felt pretty good, too. was too strong maybe, yes. But blizzard nerfed/buffed the wrong stuff and here we are with AC lightsmith now (which gets nerfed) and the same old problematicly weak basetoolkit. Holy shock/spemders are wet noodles again.
The first nerf was numbers which is fine. Then they nerfed by removing the abilities that made the rework fun in the first place. Not every nerf is just number tuning. The basically reworked the rework into garbage
@@roflixo 10.1.5 rework was never a good rework to begin with, just insanely OP at the time. Many of the changes they did were kind of reverted with TWW beta, when they had to rework the spec AGAIN. And then we were back to square 1.
@@thomasr.7398 it was strong only because Dawnlight was bugged in raid and Light of the martyr was not being properly logged. And they nerfed holy shock and WoG by like 15% and then nerfed Virtue and now the spec has been through reworks and feels like a mess
I rlly wish to see a disc dev playing the spec, I feel it would be a interesting sight.
They don’t play the game, like at all.
@Moonwired Yep, that tracks.
MW devs should be forced to do high keys with dps that have like a single defensive like boomkins. Especially before they nerfed tank busters and the many buffs they did to our damage in small incriments over the course of the season. They'd be begging for pain suppression or barkskin/ironbark (i forget,) and only taking frost mage, dk, prot pal, and ret pal as their team comp cause there was (and kinda still is) way too many things that cannot be outhealed or survived without a damage reduction. I feel like blizz devs don't play the game at all or if they do they don't talk to the dungeon design team nearly enough. Whoever tests healers is likely locked in a broom closet with a flickering light bulb that randomly turns on and off while testing +2 keys with god mode on.
@@Aoibhinn-mw MW dev is insanely good rn, they're making that spec better and better each day, sure life cocoon isnt a great external but hey atleast its an external, cant say the same for say resto sham.
After being the meta healer for a patch lol?
new drinking game: drink everytime jak says environment
Id like to keep my liver thanks
That’d be tough for your body’s environment
I'm a resto shaman, you cannot beat me at a drinking game XD
updated: i died
I’m so happy with the changes they are making to the Druid side of my talents 😭
All the talents i am choosing on PTR are talents I actually want and are going to use 😭
As main Prevoker 3k, I think the changes to Flameshaper aren’t enough to consider using it instead of Chronowarden. Chronowarden fits really well in m+, with the changes it gives to the class. Hover converts to a blink (you can avoid some mechanics/damage), Hover gives a little defensive, almost all the time with +5% intellect, Tip the Scales haste buff, Cooldown reduction, Echo buff and chronoflames appearing everytime you do a empowered spell.
Im glad i got back into disc priest these last two weeks. Its like the end of dragonflight again and i get to enjoy my time until i switch into fistweave 😂
I would really like to see blizz differentiate M+ and raiding similarly to how they differentiate PVP from everything else.
Agreed! I love raiding and mostly dislike m+, but I feel required to do m+ to get my ilvl up for raid
@ more in the context of talents but yes I understand this sentiment.
Dont need that, just nerf aoe skills for m+ and nerf ST skills for raid. And for healers u can nerf aoe healing past 5 targets for raid. M+ and raid are very easy to balance. For example (i havent played paladin) pala's avenger shield gives him nonstop interrupts in m+ but is useless in raid. So if u nerf that, pala becomes weaker in m+ without becoming weaker in raid. Or if guardian druid is very strong, u can nerf maul which nerfs raid but keeps m+ the same as they dont use maul much there. U dont need separate modifiers like in pvp, just target the right skills.
they already do, for specs like aug, and disc attonement
They dont differentiate anything for pvp. Just slap on some bandaid pvp modifiers if something is obnoxious. Solo shuffle is just another m+
Things can only get worse before the get better, am I right my fellow Holy Pala enjoyers?... right?....
Im so excited for Monk, im gonna make one tonight! Thx Jack :)
as a resto shaman main for years, I always wonder what the design philosophy is at Blizzard that they think Disc priest can literally forget they have a mana bar yet I have to drink 20 times per key. Like.. why? I do half Disc's damage and I can't heal as much, yet my spells cost 10 times as much, hmk?
YEP. I do pride myself on my sneaky between-pulls drinks tho 😂 absolutely slamming back mana buns all key
In Shadowlands that was us too, if it helps 🥴 I think at the time it was hpal who could ignore mana... and so it goes round and round!
Yea disc in shadowlands was the hungriest little mana goblin. And their throughput was a bit less than other healers. They heavily relied on their defensive and pre planning shields with rapture. Back when disc shields were actually good and their single target heal also damaged you lol. What a time to be a priest.
@@CapucineAbadieI mained hpally for SL and we could ignore the mana bar, even now hpally doesn’t have much of an issue with it. I play rsham now for TWW and have to do the sneaky drink between pulls lol
On Holy Priest on the PTR tonight using Sustained Potency, Eternal Sanctity, and Answered Prayers, I can push Apotheosis to last upwards of about 1.5 minutes. I am getting like 20-30 second gaps of apoc not being up... it's a little nutty.
That's very different for hpriest.. will be real interesting to see how well that carries through but deeammn it's pretty rad.
How is Trail of Light on PTR? Still broken and showing as the top heal? Is it still healing everyone not just one? I wonder what H Priest will be like in PTR once it gets fixed....
@@jrosalei Details is telling me that it was the 2nd most powerful heal in overall in Floodgate +8, after Echo of Light.
@@Csoery So very powerful! I just saw in other videos that it's healing everybody not just the previous target you healed so they were saying it's broken. If/when this gets fixed, it'll be nerfing it big time. TBH, I like the idea of it healing everybody and not just the pervious target you healed. :P
I think with 4pc this could turn hpriest into a holy word turret, landing insurance on a whole lot of people. I’m not mad at that idea, but I’m not sure how viable it will be, because it’ll require intentional overhealing at times to keep apoc up… but again I’m not mad at that lol
@@w_3ird0h Do you really think taking Sustained Potency over Energy Compression will be better? I just can't believe that! But the 4 pc does all hinge on Apoc being active but that's just crazy.
You forgot to rank Blood DKs on the healing chart.
My b!
The questionable direction they they are going with the Hpal nerfs and buffs is the reason why i gave up the Siren patch and will likely be sitting out Undermine(d) and playing other games. I don't feel like struggling real hard again because the spec is just designed stupidly and I have no desire to reroll again.
Why not just play a different healer? When the spec I love is shit I just play another that is fun at that time
I wouldn’t give up just yet. If we voice our displeasure on the forums they may(probably not) change it with later tuning passes.
@@codycurtin2295 what you really ment is, play the flavor of the season healer when hpally is shit. its not about it being fun its about finding the cookiecutter/bis healer haha
Same. My 2 main healers for the last 2 exps have been hpal and monk.
Monk was always a bit of fun and hpal was my main but i've pretty much ditched my pally completely now. Any pushing I do, it's straight on the monk. It is a shame as I fell in love with hpal early DF (before the 1st rework i might add) but it really feels like they hate the spec as the amount of constant nurfs they've had since that 1st rework is unbelievable. Pushing towards a caster-centric play style is absolutely the wrong move and might just kill any interest in hpal again. Such a shame.
@@Defocus_ for a lot of people it is but I really try to go by how much fun I have. DEFINITELY a lot of overlap with meta because of I'm struggling the whole time I am just miserable plain and simple. But for instance this patch resto sham is nutso but I just wasn't enjoying either riptide or totems so I played dps. I usually cycle between Hpal, Disc, and Fistweaver
Dumping holy paladin and going back to dps thx Blizz!
Druid tree change seems ok, but I switched from resto to boomy to actually play the game, and Im not sure how much better the output will be with mastery change. We will see, if we get invited to any keys that is. 😅
Wait i like how Disc plays now in keys :/
Same. I was really enjoying Disc. I dont get it why Blizzard destroyed Disc so hard :(
So tired of Blizzard pushing caster hpal. It just doesn't work in melee
I m generally bored with Activision Microsoft as well brother
The new monk tier sets about to make me reroll
I fell in love with monk before ll.07 buffs than we got even more buffs! now were looking really good fingers crossed we dont get nerfed other wise ill go back to my resto druid
Of the healers I've played this season, i ended up maining mist just because it feels so good to control my mana economy.
I put down my hpal cause I'd run out of man's in like 4 minutes having to solo heal pugs.
Pres is fun, but makes me hate life in Keys.
I've been a priest main since tbc and the class as a whole just feels 10 years out of date
Hpal has blessing of winter but it def can be underwhelming. They should buff it to 2% max mana per second (is 1% currently) maybe and see how it plays. Unlike mana tea it can't actually replace drinking before an intense boss fight imo. It can get you through some times depends really on team comp and the boss. Last boss of cot? Def want to drink ime. Last boss of arak? Prolly gonna be fine.
Resto shaman is super fun, totems do the work for u and u have a button for everything plus the best interrupt in the game. If it had a few less buttons it would be perfect. Also dmg rotation is giga easy, u have 3 buttons.
Every single time I'm doing some +10s weeklies on my prevoker I filter groups into almost filled (3/0/1), and join those that have 3 melee dps. I'm not chasing the warlock who decided to use his entire range and blasts from 40y away.
@@kerkertrandov459 actually is my next project
I always check in with your videos to see if Hpal is playable(and fun) again. Love the content. Hate the balancing.
Thank you.
I really hope they will do some re-changes on Disc.
I played mistweaver at beginning of the season as a healer twink. It didn't feel right.
Since a few days ago I was completely oblivious to the jade empowerment and crackling lighting thing. This thing is lit! combined with a switch to harmony hero talents and this thing that lets the channel jump with your instant heals it's just brutally fun.
I out do some tanks in DMG and heal everything. Just great.
Single target boss fights we're the challenging part because I opted out of sheilons gift completly.
But with the rework of jade empowerment to be a better grp heal in single target situations and this thing that reduces the CD on revival......it's to much .
If this goes live mist weaver will burn like a supa Nova for a sort time and then will be nerfed to the ground.
Shouldn't be the case though. The buffs MW recieved are just corrections to lacking talents, plus if you compare it to other healers , it's utility is lacking. That's we are being called Raw output healers - and nerfing a class that already lacks utility compared to all others AND it's a melee healer would be devastating. I wouldn't put it past Blizz, but MW was already lacking behind other healers in TWW ( talking raid + M+ )
Hpal has been non stop horrible to play since its rework in DF S2. Then in beta they reworked the spec YET ANOTHER TIME and it didn't even got to live until it was dismantled once again. On 11.0.5 got unintended buffs and enabled AC/LS that while not perfect, was fun and a bit of fresh air since Herald sucks now, and of course they had to kill AC anytime is remotely relevant. Why not deleted it at this point?
Both hero specs are awful and unfun to play now. 2 Failed reworks in 4 seasons, blizz is peaking here. They just don't know what to do with the spec.
Just play another spec stop malding
@@kerkertrandov459 I literally play all healers except for Holy priest. No other healer had 2 reworks in 4 seasons and still feels terribly designed, except for maybe disc joining the ranks next season.
Happy for the Evoker improvements.
R.I.P Disc Priest… if these new changes go through without major adjustments I will lose faith in Blizzard forever. Might be nice to have an extra $15 for beer money that I’ll drink in a night. Not sure what to do with the other 27 days every month though.
Holy Priest has potential to be a real winner if they can stick the landing on some of these changes. A particular pain point for me is that the bottom row contains some interesting tools, like Divine Word, but with Lightweaver being more or less mandatory it’s just too costly to get some of those tools as matters stand.
I'm so sick of Lightweaver gameplay. It isn't fun. I would rather see Lightwell heal for a little bit more. That might make it more viable, it would also pair well with Prayer of Mending/Renew builds by having greater passive healing. Also buff Prayer of Healing slightly to make it more viable. Gameplay would be to keep PoM on CD, spread renews, drop Lightwell for more passive hots, and utilize Flash Heal/Serenity for massive single target healing where necessary, and Sanctify/Prayer of Healing for filler aoe heals.
Edit - Forgot to mention - Divine Image is WAY past it's prime. It's less enjoyable than Lightweaver, does not feel impactful and needs to go IMO.
Lightweaver even at its worst state is better than Light Well. I feel you on the disappointment and can only hope for better. Even with the buffs to Renew, it's still needs a bit more to stay useful.
Blizzard workflow : rework a spec until the gameplay if finally fun and fluid. Let ppl enjoy that spec for 3 months. Destroy all that work for some reason cause you hate when ppl have fun playing your game
I got 3 healers. Can’t nerf them all.
You call yourself a healer? I've got 6 (+1)
New upcomming patch and Blizzard says: Hey guys, we make the job of the most healer much more harder so u can focus on other roles
As a tank player healing felt really easy, u just chilling in the background doing the aoe hps check every 45 seconds and not much else the rest of the time. Meanwhile as a tank u blink and ure ded. Defensive down? Ded. Glad they're making healers harder to match the difficulty of tanking, if ure pussy that cant handle challenges go play dps.
Man disc in recent times has just been feeling so bad bot talking about strength but how it feels. Smite spamming and only having like 4 buttons is so bad. Wild how they keep changing my all time favorite healer into just something mid
people saying pres is improving at the start of every major patch is a cope every single time XD
Short range, conical reticule for DB, and VE reverse gripping you… all too risky in a Challenger’s peril meta. Not even to mention the aug effect.
Pres is good tho? So I don't get what you are trying to say here.
To be clear, in a casual pug environment (M+ 8-12) I don’t like playing pres, and I don’t like have pres in my group.
It always seems like hunters or mages or ele will get randomly dropped. Bc they are outside of range (1st boss in Ara is a good example). And while I don’t think that’s the fault of the pres, these kinds of issues don’t exist for other healers.
Also, it seems to be a harder spec to pick up and play as an alt/offspec. Not super relevant, tbh, bc it’s true for all healers to a certain extent. And any Pres with normal ilvl and io is gonna know how to play their class. But I’ve seen newbie Pres (including myself at the start of every season) really struggle with CD management, and even proper execution of the CD. I would compare Avenging Crusader and Chi-Ji to Stasis. They all have kinda the same CD. But the melee ones are way easier to execute as a first time to the spec. Even though Stasis is the coolest and most fun and versatile healer CD it requires you to understand your class and incoming damage/healing profiles in a way that other classes don’t and instead can just muscle through with kicks and crusader strikes.
Lastly, RIP all Pres who die VEing a target in a frontal/swirlie.
Therefore, imo, I think Pres is, on average, a bad choice in fully pugged 8-12 keys. Not bc the spec is bad/underpowered/unfun but bc the game system is essentially working against the playstyle.
Except it isn't. It is in fact improving.
Tbf, werent they giga overtuned at the start of last patch???
I switched to Holy Priest in anticipation of 11.1 and I actually like it to be honest
What about Disc going Oracle for Twinsight Penance providing Aegis shields since casts would also go on allies? And focus on Crit/Haste rather than Haste/Mastery?
I tried it and it felt really weak
@AutomaticJak not enough shields or the aegis felt too small?
Lovin' the scruff Jak. Lookin' good.
I believe that the priest changes are not nerfs, but buffs depending on how people play the spec, like the way I play the specs, these are major buffs to priests.
I will probably reroll my disc its getting worse and worse in every patch and looks like its finally dead.Only thing i see here is nerfs there is not a single good thing for disc in this rework.I mean they are but 3 more sec attoment or eva burst heal is just not even impactfu.I prefer anything removed over this 2 combined
My holy paladin is becoming a holy shit :(
Wish they'd get holy priests back to how they were in TBC. No holy words just pure healing - chosing the best spell for the situation and not just spamming a ridiculous heal for cooldown reduction
Yeah, the changes for holy priest are definitely in the right direction but they fumbled a bit. They were perhaps worried about PoH being too strong with Lightweaver so they only buffed its terrible base by 40%, but on PTR its still only doing like 250k per person at 670il. Now with resonate words and the other 75% buff talent i saw a 1mil crit heal on PoH but thats a LOT of set up and luck. Renew still heals for pitiful amounts, the talents surrounding it arent worth taking except Benediction (mainly cuz what else will you take that early and its in the way of other talents) and the FIVE capstone talents are just a mess of a design for the layout of the tree. With the numbers I was seeing its very possible that you end up with only 1 capstone (Lightweaver) and rely on PoM, Dispersing Light, and Cosmic ripple to handle small aoe damage, and then use sanctify lightweaver+resonate word PoHs for heavy damage, and remain Heal/Flash Heal during downtime. The big push for Apoth means we SHOULD take answered prayers but its in such a terrible spot that it kinda seems like its not worth going for. You lose out on other goodies that are just helpful more of the time than a random 8 second buff. They need to swap answered prayers with Lightwell, and possibly make more of the talent nodes 1/1 instead of 2/2.
the biggest fix to holy priest would be to cut all cd’s by 70% (faster cd) and 2.75x more cast speed gain from haste or cut cast times for non instant cast spells in half.. these would majorly help fix holy priest without having to overhaul dungeons to correct for blizz fkups with holy spec .. or put high(er) haste stat numbers on tier gear
Hpally has a blizzard i.d. crisis. Casting in melee and catching puddles.
Aug really hasn't been "nerfed". Its an overall dps buff with barely any healing loss from the data I've seen.
No longer buffing the healer w ebon might is huge for healers. Damage numbers can always change but not buffing a healer is incredibly impactful for us
@@AutomaticJak I agree with this as I already struggle sometimes to justify taking aug to certain keys like Mists. If a dps dies on mistcaller the aug just feels bad cause all the bosses in mist need pure dps to force phase change or else it's a brick. The aug can make people a little tankier for like a few problem things but most of these things up to 15 where around I try to play you don't really need an aug, what you need is for the clone to die faster. In 16 supposedly you start to need an aug and big healer damage to push but I haven't gotten there yet, but def harder for me to imagine justifying aug that isn't at least making me and the tank *also* do more damage and healing, because that's actually pretty helpful. and plus I think some teams pushing like 17 or so have done it without an aug, so if I don't need an aug hypothetically to time keys, and the aug isn't helpful for these single target dps checks that brick keys, and the aug doesn't buff me and the tank, then why would I take the aug except to a place like stonevault? Wouldn't spriest with PI and off healing and stuff be better? It could be ig since skill matters more than spec but I pug mostly so it's a tough decision.
How do u get the ground to look so bright in your dungeons?
Stinky bright potion, its the opposite effect of the inky black potion from the dmf. Its on the AH
@@johnthebarbarianty
I'll be back to wow when they decide to figure out what direction they want to make hpall.
for your next tier list you should use the boom meter
Hey Jak, one thing you didn't talk much about are tier set except for disc. There's still time for them to change but the evoker one for example is really bad. It makes verdant embrace apply a hot but it can't even echo, shows how much thought were put into them. I think only the hpal one sounds fun with the divine toll cd reduction, I hope they rework most of them. I. I really dislike the shared 2p idea, especially for healers.
Good call! Will be experimenting w evoker in the next day or two so I’ll be sure to keep an eye on that
Yeah, Pres currently has an absurdly overtuned 4pc and going from that to one which barely does anything is a massive loss in power.
Hpal already felt really scuffed at the start of season1, it felt somewhat fun and playable (no where near top tier) with the light-smith changes halfway through the season, and now they’re nerfing it into the ground again. I really don’t want to go back to casting 😢.
Right with ya on that one, I just simply cannot comprehend Blizzard's unyielding need to continuously boop Holy Pally in the head with nerfs, especially to a well received playstyle. I get that there's a group that loves caster paladin and their opinions are valid, but why can't the Holy Pally dev create a tree that caters to two differ playstyles like MW monk? Now terrible changes to disc....There's already a healer shortage and now it's gonna propagate that even more. Blizz also said they were trying to reduce the amount of burst healing for this season at the beginning of the expansion and that never happened lol.
@@Soulmatic25 there's still more healers than tanks cuz the role is not that hard
@@kerkertrandov459 I play all three roles and play 7 different classes, tank and healers are both in shortage. What point are you trying to make other than being toxic?
@@Soulmatic25 that making healers harder isnt a bad thing as it will match tank difficulty. Healers and tanks arent meant to be easy, go play dps if u wanna afk press same 5 button over and over
@@kerkertrandov459 If you're struggling as a tank, maybe try playing a different role instead? As a tank you need to know dungeon route, percentage of mobs, tank busters, and positioning. It's a thankless role, without a doubt, but it's not difficult at all with the right knowledge. Can faceroll as a blood DK or Prot pally, shrugs.
Holy Priest belong in the "L" catagory. So far, PoH is far too weak (plus too mana costly), it's not viable. Renew is far too weak, it's not viable. In a M+ enviornment, we still lack AOE healing, defensives, an interrupt, mobilty. All of the same issues we currently have. The bottom of the tree...too many good options but not enough points to take them all, it's a mess! Disc will still be the better choice in a M+ envoirnment over Holy by far! As far as raids....they removed Salv!
Big thing keeping holy up is how strong their holy words are. It’s really insane rn. Agree w your pts about renew and Poh tho
@@AutomaticJak I did notice that our holy words have improved, especially sanctify which is great but you alluded in other videos to them potentially getting nerfed so I am worried to it'll get nerfed plus I thought they were really aiming to make PoH and Renew strong for us which it's completely flopped so far. Overall disappointed with the changes for Holy and fear we will still be the worst healer out there for keys in season 2.
I loved holy priest in Legion, especially Nighthold and Tomb of Sargeras raid eras. Wish they'd just return it to those tunings maybe
@@PyroFortune I agree! Heck, even S4 DF was great imo. Big problem is, dungeons arent like they used to be. Now, it's all about getting through heavy bursts of party wide AOE damage every pull and constantly needing to move around. This expansion has been the worst I have ever experienced as an Hpriest main since Vanilla. We are still in dire need of help! Guess it's time to reroll monk.....
What does L stand for ?
middle finger gesture
This tier list is just speculations nothing is tested at the point to mark what is the best tier list, unless there is enough data test and logs, could be so different.
It is a first impressions vid and I'll be updating!
@@AutomaticJak I know, but the issue is now in discord channels from healers they are thinking this is going to be, and I know is their fault how to interpret that, but also I think you should say that at least in the preview picture of the image...
Holy light as paladin feels good to cast, but only the quick one buffed by holy prism, not the normal ones, even in bfa where we had the strong infusion that buffed crit on flash of light, casting those fast and quick spells always felt good in between holy shocks, I wish we went back to that kind of weaving in between, if they want paladins to cast.
Name a more iconic duo than the ever-whiny priest mains and their eternal quest to be the almighty, untouchable gods of M+...I'll wait.
One spell gets removed, and it's 'literally unplayable' while Hpala, MW, and Resto have been yo-yoing between F-tier disasters and A-tier powerhouses for multiple seasons due to entire playstyle reworks without breaking out the world's smallest violin.
Hpala on live is in its worst state since M+ got introduced into the game. In top 5000 M+ runs, hpala is the only spec not showing up ONCE, and for good reason too. So what does Blizz do? Nerfs it, and forces hpala out of its final frontier - melee. Guess Elle won't be swapping back to holy for 11.1 kek
Just giving up on hpal this season. The fact this spec has and is getting nerfed still, is unbelievable. Spec is unplayable. Blizz hates paladin players
blizz hates everyone
Lolololll blizzard hates paladins. Foh
Resto shaman got nerfed and without any real additions that matter. So you have to hope it’s still good.
Played Holy pal on ptr and herald felt pretty good. Holy light actually feels decent to press without procs and with infusion + divine favor it felt like a mini lay on hands. Flash of light just feels absolutely useless however, hopefully they tune it. It’s also a shame how they’re treating light smith, that hero spec seems unusable with these changes
I would put evoker in the "big win" tier. Evoker utility is too good to not include in a group with zephyr probadly being the best group cooldown in high keys, aug falling out of meta and disc getting big nerfs. So the most logical step would be putting the evoker on the heal spot next season. best contenders might be druid and monk
if you think aug is falling off the meta i have bad news for u
if aug were to ever fall out of the meta, and evoker utility was THAT important, you would be more likely to take dev evoker if its damage is good (which it almost always has been, excluding the first half of this season and the very start of DF S3) because they can put source of magic on whatever healer is in the group. pres players can't put source of magic on themselves, and it is a core part of why aug is strong, plus if mistweaver/disc is meta they get more benefit from source of magic than other healers. pres would have to be VERY overtuned to be meta, sad but true
With close as clutch matches returning for aug, I don't see aug falling out of the meta.
@@SirPhilMcCrackinVonBeggington first thing i have heared from the PTR is that aug is just doing around 90% of the damage of a third DPS and that would definitly mean aug falling out of the "best meta group"
Holy Paladin Main here. 2600 I.O. I am very sad blizzard keeps doing this crap, Look I get it... a group of HP don't want to play AC build and want a more caster oriented build. Rather than Nerfing AC they should just buff Herold and make that the "Caster" build if people feel they like that play style better! This would be the perfect opportunity for them to separate what both play styles with the hero talents!
I am a ride or die Holy Paladin so despite these nerfs I will still be playing it next season, but man is it gonna feel bad trying to get into pugs. Right now I am 638 Ilvl that still gets passed sometimes for "Meta" healers, even if they are lower than me and have less Rating than me. Feels Bad.
Good players realize that specs are just the means to an end and will reroll to whatever is good. Don't be stuck to a bad spec, be open-minded.
@@kerkertrandov459 On that same note a good player can perform well regardless of what spec they are playing. All specs are viable in content that 99.9% of the playerbase is capable of playing. Realistically in the vast majority of content, it doesn't matter.
More often than not I see bad players constantly hopping from meta character to meta character barely knowing how to play them, just copy pasting some Icy Veins talent build because a UA-cam video said x spec does the best damage and then they end up having sub-par performance. I think it's better to have a handful of classes you intimately understand.
Holy paladin is in a weird spot being a melee class. I don't bring hpals because I play with another melee spec and if you only have 1 ranged in the group it can make some keys way harder than they should like ara kara
2600 io Hpal here with a sub 630 ilevel. I will never play AC build, I can’t stand smart heals. But also, Ellesmere, the literal #1 Hpal in the world has cleared +15s as Herald because he prefers it, so Herald isn’t really bad to begin with. Personally, I love the agency to decide where my heals are going, so even if Herald were the literal worst spec in the game, I’d still play it, and likely get 2500+ fairly easily.
@@lWreylwhile true, I play the spec I want to play regardless of if they’re the FOTM or not, it does prevent you from getting into groups a lot compared to fotm classes like the OP mentioned.
i love my chrono pres evoker hope it is a bit more competitive in m+, really dont want to aug
I just miss 10.1 disc. Yeah, button bloat, but at least it was fun
Button bloat is a mad up concept. Having spells is part of the fucking game.
@@seikanekasinhaving to sequence 6 casts to build modifiers and ramp for damage before executing your rotation then doing your rotation is not just “having spells” it’s having TOO many spells
@@Wraghelm Having too many spells is another made up problem, Disc was never bloated in the first place.
@@seikanekasin yeah but i felt like playing something in 10.1 disc is just a smite spam class now and its getting worse everyday.I remember that at fyrakk CE kill ı was watching a show while spamming smite, its just boring.
@@dege4261 they made it worse though by making mind blast a even longer cd, like i dont understand the people who go "We have button bloat- but also i hate smite spam." like... smite spam was blizzards solution to the "Button Bloat" I personally want to see us get more dps spells not less.
Jak taking tips from Linus in doing segways lol
im tryin!
Hpal is being pushed in a direction that feels similar to Dragon flight Season 3/4. Mana issues and casting to generate holy power and conserve mana doesn't seem so far off again especially with herald. Tested my hpal on healing dummies it took me just over 4mins to oom myself going all out with healing spenders can't wait :) Maybe I just need more mp5 kekw
watching this as a disc/hpal player ...
Great, they've just raised the price of the sub in OCE but nerfed my spec... Not sure it's worth even paying anymore at this point.
29k mistweaver n unless I'm running my own key it's like impossible to get into a pug. Hopefully that changes next session
clicked literally just to find out if mistweaver was good or not. ty
like you said PTR is not open when recored this but testing holy priest in PTR m+ feels good healing pumping and stuff butt its still holy just like Rdruid just healing pumper
Rdruid has lots of utility, aoe roots, cyclones, typhoons, incap roar, aoe ms buff, stun, sleep, soothe etc. All priest has is a shitty fear. Rdruid is def not a pumper.
@@kerkertrandov459 and half of those are useless in m+
Oracle Disc, big fat F_! Managed to kill 6/8M playing Oracle Disc. Havent tried it on Silken yet, but oh boy it's over now unless something is going to chance.
Thanks for video, like always.
all of these changes for PoH on priest and its still garbage and not gonna be used at all
I’m really sad to see that blizzard just doesn’t understand what makes disc work how weird these changes are
No its simple, disc was meta so now he needs to not be meta cuz people are tired of it. Just wondering why isnt prot pala getting the same treatment.
@@kerkertrandov459 disc is always good with good groups ı never seen a disc priest topping in raid or being good in pugs.Even tho it performed good in high keys blizzard didnt need to burry the spec in a coffin.Now its dead in every aspect of game.I would still play if they did a decent nerf now i dont even wanna have the char i just want to delete it
I LOVE your golden retriever energy. Not derogatory AT ALL. So cute!! Also great vids and info, haha.
Is it a specific talent tree? Cause I play the ranged mistweaver build, not a fistweaver.
Fistweaving is king
I think I’m in the minority here and maybe heavily healer-brain poisoned. But I think the way the different specs manage mana is really cool and gives you a metric to progress against yourself.
Like as Rsham I find it fun to try to maximize the most out of buffs and throughput and not overheal etc to have enough mana. And then drinking water in my rain totem feels very thematic LMAO.
I also love casually slow walking and drinking my mana tea as the fire mage explodes in flames, the UH dk is going insane and the Aug is blasting off.
And Hpal is cool to rotate through the seasons and then blowing a buncha mana through virtue and WoGs and being able to conserve a lot of mana by rotating through AC and awakening.
Deride me all you want. :P I know it’s niche and DPS and tanks hate waiting for me to drink, but I have my water keybound and i encourage the tank to keep pulling and not wait for me. (I try to be ahead of the pull, close to the next one anyway).
I also understand that just because I like the mechanic. Doesn’t mean that it’s good. Or even that it’s good for the game and meta. Hahahah
Your post for sure has got to be bait. Homogenize mana either all healers have to drink/deal with mana issues or none of them do so fking boring not being able to play virtue on mythic progress bosses that take longer than a couple of minutes, same goes for m+ why can i run an entire key on my rsham alt (which has more utility, better damage and bloodlust PLUS windfury/mastery group buff and not go oom, but my paladin has to run into all these arbitrary walls?
What part about this is "fun" class/game design? It's not unique, it's annoying, you're for sure in the minority with this god awful take.
@@Gongshown yeah I don’t raid, so i don’t have any opinion on that aspect. Hpal is also my most recent alt and I only do casual 8’s and 10s so it’s not like it’s been an overwhelming burden for me personally. Plus I think timing the seasons buff is a pretty cool vibe and trying to get the most out of a nearly depleted mana bar. I agree it’s not’s “good” gameplay. But I find it fun.
It’s not bait. Some people just enjoy the game differently. :) 🤗 Although I do agree that they should standardize the mana management like you said. That is a good idea for getting more ppl to heal.
for sure you are the minority or blizzard Activision employee
@@KennyFalmouth506 let’s be real blizzard employees don’t watch Jak! 😜 the state of the game would be much better if they did!
Rage bait brain rot hot garbage take
Can we bloody fire the person that is pushing for Hpala becoming a caster class. We are at this circle for multiple expansions now. It is made into a caster, nobody likes it, avenging wrath is brought back. People are happy, blizzard in their infinite wisdom come back to the casting that nobody likes.
WHY. LIKE. WHY?
So sad to see these changes to disc. I've been playing Shadow for many seasons and were finally considering shifting into the healer role with Disc because i like the gameplay, but never got used to the ramp in a raid environment when just healing a random every few months, and then this happened. In the beginning i was excited to see this many changes to Disc, but reading through them and hearing someone that know them analyze them has been disappointing to say the least :(
Guess i'm sticking to Shadow, or going warlock or something /shrug
They make mist better so we all forget brew is a thing
As a Resto shaman main, overall the changes are not good enough to make them decent. It is just an L overall. The talents and building to the new talent nodes are rough.
We need a rework or revamp of the spec.
... but you just had one?
I still don't get it why even touch disc priest, it was fun to play and performing well, like ... WHY
because it was performing well that's the reason, anything fun Activision destroys it
@@KennyFalmouth506 actually it wasnt you just need to have a disc in high end keys otherwise raid healing was shit pug wise it was shit everything was shit about disc.But whatever the disc s situation spec can do high end keys no matter what with cordinated groups.
i use monk different. im not focused on tons of dmg im focused on raw healing output and ive saved groups plenty of times that i know for a fact fistweaving wouldnt have provided enough output. focus weavers bend more on the hps output more so than dps where as fistweavers focus on dps. im ripping close to 4mil hps and i can straight up overpower 12 keys like a joke. im considered a non meta spec player yet i crank harder than any monk i have ever seen, i have more control over your hp bar than any other healer in the game period.
Its sad how Blizzard has given up with the most difficult healer to play, poor melee Paladin :(
Holy priest aoe could get a 200% increase and still be bad.
I feel that beacon should be stronger on 5 man, so you're not pigeon holed into using the beacon of virtue. Sort of like the disc fix. It's kind of simple really... If the double beacon can safely keep 2 dps up the hardcasting Hpal will be A-tier.
Maybe this list might be more accurate AFTER u played the speccs on PTR.
Share your sentiments with Holy Pally completely. AC getting neutered feels awful, and caster melee healer is not the right direction for the spec. I enjoy both Herald and Lightsmith equally, and hope that tuning keeps them relevant. Getting flashbacks to S2->S3 Dragonflight with how they handled Hpal, except this time Hpal was not Overpowered.
MW MONK STONKS
Melee healer omegalul
@@kerkertrandov459 Melee healers are just better at the game cause we don't have the crutch of being in caster range haha
@@bun5118 as they say, work smarter not harder, there's no reason to be in melee if u can be at range, it's much safer
Favorite healer on Top, lets gooooo!!!!!!🎉🎉🎉🎉
Finally decided to pick up a healer a few weeks go since the last time i healed in shadowlands because it was fun leveling as disc only for it to get made unfun in the next patch, gotta love blizzard
Decent is probably the worst rating. Blizzard will see that as problem solved.
Think you’ve said this before but the game playing simply isn’t that much fun any more and these updates are not changing that
You said Holy and Disc Priest were gutted in S1 and look now at Disc ? lol This is just the beginning of the PTR cycle so I guess good time for engagement farming
Disc was really bad in beta and only got good after they massively buffed its healing output at the start of the xpac :) I made videos covering the rise of disc and everything
Holy is currently one of the worst healers in S1
imagine if u just reduce your Mindbender with no penance itself, but with every bolt of penance... oracle will take a new aspect, shields CDR and Rapture remove is bigL.... feel really bad... maybe they can check how shield healers work in FF14... scholar and sage are my favorite healers across all MMOs
My god yes! Disc used to have a talent called divine aegis, it gave a shield to your target when you crit healed them and it worked with aoe heals too (still not a recitation adlo spread, but pretty cool) It was the closest thing wow had to scholar and it was freaking awesome. Scholar is the most fun healer I have ever played in any mmo also. Unmatched fun factor. And disc used to play pretty similarly to scholar back in wrath and cata. But blizz has to be dumb, and make things frustrating and wonky all the time.
As a holy paladin main, I'm just disapointed :( I wish to be decent again just for once. The last season of df and the first of tww have felt really rough. Thinking about rerolling to mistweaver at this point..
This might sound like a hot take, but I don't think that there should be any melee healers
I think people should actually be given a choice. I mean, it cannot be that hard to design a game where a paladin or monk can choose whether to spec more heavily into casted healing or dps healing. Blizz can do it, they just refuse to spend their "new patch island" money on anything but that...
I'm all up for these changes, its nice to see more classes getting a bit better to have more than just 1-2 healing types in high keys
I Love mw and play it every season, regardless of bad or good, but I'm scared of what their doing to it. I absolutely love the changes, but I have a feeling that the nerf hammer will destroy all the goo work they did. The lightening change is good, but wasaaay too strong as well as master of harmony dmg. I just hope they nerf the right things and don't ice us the hpal season 2 experience.
Edit: I also hope that they kinda keep the throughput, because that's all that mw has. The phys dmg buff is way to weak (and also enforces ways more restricted comps) as well as their utility. Once mw doesn't hit the throughput requirements anymore, they are completely dead in keys
Im so happy that Lightsmith gets nerfed. "Meta" on Hpal is broken and Herald of the Sun will be more welcome pugs. Herald feels better anyways (In my opinion at least), just the throughput is lower than lightsmith on current patch.
Meh I came around to lightsmith and found it quite fun. Now we're just gonna be more mid in 11.1. So grats