"for his species, he is a baby!" reminded me of that one DnD post where somebody imagined a bartender asking for "age and species" and pulling out a gigantic book of alcohol restricting ages for every species.
A bit off topic, but won’t people be weirded out when Kana doesn’t age and would theoretically stay in the same grade forever. Like Kana’s friend is grow up and Kana will still be the same.
@@thenyancatcookiei feel like it leads to the very depressing train of thought of shes gonna have to watch all her friends grow old and die and still have another few hundred years left to live
That is possible, but it's equally as possible it doesn't happen. I think it's Fafnir that says dragon's human bodies are a function of perception. If going to school and being around people her age causes her to reconsider her perception of herself, she could also appear to physically age. Or not because episodic moe. You pick.
Well she would age mentally (which is what matters), but yeah the child body thing is still weird as fuck (although fun fact there is a woman whose body never aged past a child's and she suffers greatly)
Hello! Jaafar wearing eyeliner is actually a big part of early middle eastern culture and mannerisms, eyeliner was invented for men to wear! And in the desert it was often worn to protect the waterline from sand storms and such.
@@andrewphilos I don't need to point out the fact that your comment just contributes to middle eastern erasure, which the movie itself is already guilty of as is, but eyeliner was an extremely prominent part of that history and wearing eyeliner in the desert is something people still do, so maybe read up a little.
@@andrewphilos I was pointing out the eyeliner as being one of the things that they accurately depicted, whether or not the character Jafaar is supposed to be queer coded isn't to be determined by his eyeliner. Your argument is that he is queer coded because eyeliner is not typically masculine, I'm counteracting that argument by stating that it was worn by men and women alike in the middle east and didn't indicate sexual identity. I made my initial comment that pointed this out because I felt that passing it off as queer coding instead of acknowledging this part of our history felt a bit odd.
@mackenzie6744 I feel like that it was the intent of Disney, though. We already know Disney is infamous for erasing culture, and we see only bad or evil characters in Aladdin having eyeliner. If it was en reference to the historical context, why would they only use it for those specific circumstances. For this, I feel like intention rules over historical context. It'd be more clear if it was Aladdin as well that had eyeliner.
14:29 warm take, I think, but I'd say that giving a character a developed chest in an attempt to offset child coding doesn't even work because, typically, people develop chests before they stop being children. Breasts are not a reliable indicator of adulthood. I was more or less done with the physical changes of puberty by the time I was 13.
Polymorphic beings that chose their human body looks,though(and could shape shift it to look different if they want as stated by the "you should change your body next" crack) People that can't tell the difference between Lolis and Children are the ones low key self reporting that they suffer basic identity disphoria at the very least or are the ones that end up like Vaush at worse(self projecting CP should be legal avocate horse fucker calling out people that just want to watchthe damn Anime in peace)
what bothers me (in addition to the obvious) abt kanna is that like... yeah little kids have crushes? and if the show wanted to show her classmate having a childhood crush on kanna that would've been cute and fine if the "oh no i'm flustered" moments were like. hugging or sitting next to each other on the couch or moments of physical affection/touch that WEREN'T OBVIOUSLY SEXUALIZED
Yeah it always bothered me that those "oh no, I'm flustered" moments you speak of were always filtered through "I'm flustered cuz I'm horny, this situation makes me horny, I got a boner right now" Like, very few moment in the entire series are not about "I love this person because they exist" and more like "this person is sexually enticing to me, I think they're very sexy, I love them because of it" Except of course for the two dudes that live together and are implied to be life partners "best friends", cuz... The author is not that much into it compared to lesbians and if they're in the anime at all is because the studio wanted a balance and not because the author particularly cared
It would only be accurate if they were like teens because normally around then is when kids start to feel actually like that due to hormones and would actually get flustered in those situations but they are like 3rd graders
@@TurtleChad1 I haven't even scrolled for 2 minutes and I managed to find at least 6 replies from you, clearly you do care as well, otherwise you wouldn't be actively looking for people to disagree with just so that you can repeat your opinion over and over again The fact that you even have an opinion on the matter indicates that you have care at least a little bit and as I just said, you being so vocal about it seems to indicate it might be more than 'a little bit' So, sir, can YOU imagine caring so much about drawings ?
Also on the topic of La Brava, her design is distinctly different from the design of the actual children in MHA (Eri, Kota, the main cast as shown in their childhood flashbacks etc).
@@Cheetahgirl_Studios She looks more like a teenager (kinda like Mineta, who also looks younger due to his height and proportions), which is still young but not as bad as Kanna, Ilulu, or most other lolis, and a lot less fetishized.
If we all can recognize that a genderless robot WALL-E is coded as "male" and EVE is coded "female" then I don't understand why it's so difficult to see that a certain character might be coded as a "child"
y’know what the most uncomfortable part is? tv tropes claims that ilulu was (slightly) redesigned for the anime to look *older* than she does in the manga
@@profezzordarke4362Not all of it is but MOST have some child character hell I even once watch a hentai which had the protag that looked and sounded like a literal CHILD be fucked by GROWN MEN and I had to ask myself wtf I found because I didn't think what I found was gonna be that and it was a regular hentai cite I used which I never stumbled upon that shit
@@profezzordarke4362 while yes, not literally all and it is a tiny bit reductive to even exaggerate to that point, THE AMOUNT OF SEXUALISATION OF MINORS IN ANIME AND MANGA IS DISPROPORTIONATELY HIGH
"I hope this isnt your first video of mine.." *grabs popcorn* "Oh it is" **The popcorn lord has been defeated, everyone levels up and acquires 1 pop corn.** **But above all, you learned the true meaning of friendship, for this victory would be hollow without your men in arms**
"You're under arrest" "No officer you don't understand, she's not a child she's a 1,000 year old dragon" "Exactly. In no world is that an acceptable age gap, I'm placing her under arrest."
Okay, I'd actually love to watch an anime based around this premise. A romance between a 20-something guy and a 1000-year old loli dragon girl, but it's the dragon who keeps thinking she's "craddle-robbing" and stuff like that.
Worth mentioning; the artist and creator for dragon maid is exclusively known for doujins that are... incredibly upsetting. Like, everything you worry about in dragon maid is just what they do in all their other work.
@@olivercharles2930 Who said anything about legal or illegal? Not everything is about what politicians should enshrine into law. You can criticize something without saying it should be illegal.
@@olivercharles2930 there's a stark contrast between something that is pornographic in nature and something that is written to criticize or otherwise send a message. i don't think any fiction should be illegal, but if you're making what is tantamount to real child pornography, which a lot of this is, and it is doing nothing but appealing to the sexuality of the writer and condone this type of relationship/behavior, both in real life and in media, then it isn't the same as writing something that is complex and varied. this is not fucked up for the sake of saying anything other than to make you feel arousal. so please, don't try to argue this. it's not okay, and only muddies the water of discussions on fiction.
@@TurtleChad1 do you really want to spend your life in such bitter hatred and denial, to close yourself off and see everyone else around you as mere enemies to combat and debase? it seems miserable. i hope you find inner peace.
@@finngswan3732 I've been carded outside the liquor store just walking up to it and I'm 29. My sister is often mistaken as the daughter of her friends. It's crazy lol.
Um.. that wasn’t an argument. They’re we’re just pointing out obvious fact cuz some humans don’t get it…also my whole family is short and my mom has been mistaken for A child MULTIPLE times so…
You know the “she’s over 1000 years old so she’s clearly an adult” argument kind of makes it worse since that would imply that Kana knows what she’s doing, has a fully matured mind, and is purposely doing lewd things and sexually assaulting a child. Like I really enjoyed the found family dynamic in this show, but they really didn’t need to give the kid a love interest.
On top of that, 1000 years dont always mean they are an adult. Just like how a 7 year old dog does not mean they are a child puppy dog as dogs age differently from humans. So 1000 years for a dragon can still be a child toddler dragon and the show already states that she's a child for a dragon. So lewding her is still lewding a toddler character. I never like the argument of the whole "they are a 1000 years old" when fantasy characters ages can depend on their species. Adult lolis exist and there are adult lolis that look kinda young who are flat bot got lager chests but its important to know if they age like a human or if there are different rules. There is one anime movie where a land of humans stop aging at about 18 years of age and stay looking like teenagers. I think the main character was 15 but stopped the aging process as she got older and continued to look and stay young realistically just like how there are some teenagers who still look 15 at the age of 18. Of course they will still age but genetically they sometimes can look 4 or 5 years younger after they reach a certain age. I like lolis but I do tend to get kinda wary on what they look like and bif they pass, I try to avoid knowing their age if I see something. But if it is said they are children, yuck.
It is stated that Kanna only sees Riko as a friend. Riko is the one with the crush, and Kanna shows obliviousness to it, meaning there's no mutual interest to have such a thing (You need mutual interest to have any such thing).
Short, young looking adult woman do exist specially in japan where people tend to look younger, so as long as they are shown to be adults and act like it there's not really a problem there. What grosses me out is when the characters are clearly stated to be young children and are depicted doing sexual stuff, like wtf
there's a distinct difference between "young-looking adult woman" (as in haru and la brava) and "literally just a character that was made with the body of a young child and is constantly sexualised under the thin veneer of 'he's actually 1,000 years old guys!!'", however.
The height issue really gets me sometimes. I was in middle school with classmates who looked like high schoolers in height and figure and in my senior year of HS i was mistaken as a freshman. I'm as tall as my brother who is in elementary still. I have a baby face that's VERY often called "cute" (and also I was told a few weeks ago by my mother that i look TWELVE). I would like to enjoy adult relationships but personally when I think that someone might, on a first look, think I'm a _child??_ Yeah, no. It's rather complicated which I suppose is why the topic is so controversial.
That's a rough situation. If I could offer any advice I would say as long as you act your age you shouldn't really worry about accidentally dating a pedophile. One of the big things that attract pedophiles is the idea of childlike innocence, if that idea is destroyed they more than likely wont be sexually interested in you. Might have issues on dating apps though.
i have a similar problem. im short and have a baby face, so people often think im much younger than i am. im 22 but sometimes i get mistaken for a highschooler or something. to solve that i just got a tattoo LOL, that might help you. i feel like if someone sees a tattoo, they can instantly tell we're at least adult age idk
"I would like to enjoy adult relationships but personally when I think that someone might, on a first look, think I'm a child?? Yeah, no." This is such an unrealistic scenario. I think you may spend too much time thinking about optics. Just enjoy life and don't think about it.
@@user-mn8lz7gf6d It happens far more than you think. Sadly. Not everyone is lucky as you and I are. But 99% of the people on this earth will end up in hell.
When you said “framing that sexualizes her”, I thought like, there would be SOME discretion or implication, but this PURE SEXUALIZATION OF A MINOR, NO ARGUMENTS CAN BE ARGUED.
@@blara2401 Oh, it gets better - those l0licon defenders try desperately to play coy and go like ahem: ‘how is this or that anime scene sexualizing children? If you notice that an anime scene is sexualizing kids, isn’t that your mind sexualizing kids, not the scene itself, thereby making you the real p3do?’ If you’re wondering what the problem with that above argument is - It’s literally the braindead ‘noticing racism means you’re the real racist!’ argument, repackaged for l0licon. The fact that l0licon defenders are literally just using a common defense racists use should reaaaaaallly tell you something about them. ;)
@@peanut4668 I really don't understand that mindset. One of the main jokes of the show is even Tohru lusting after Kobayashi, which isn't wrong in any way mind you, but it's definitely sexual in nature. Then there's Shouta who outright calls Lucoa a succubus, and then...this.
People always blame the “character” say the character consented to it in the story… and they never blame the ADULT author who wrote that character. It’s hard to put my frustration into words
Some people are so detracted from reality that they spew the weirdest thoughts, thinking no consequences or judgement will befall them. And yes, I can determine that liking child-like and infantilized characters is weird behaviour. I have weird likings of my own, but they actually consist of characters who can consent and don't prey on innocence and purity.
For Iruru, I definitely agree with how problematic her design and the way she's treated in the show is. But the part of her design that I find problematic is the fact that they keep putting her in her underwear and shit and not the fact that her chest is huge. She's supposed to be 16. I have a really large chest that came in when I was about 13, before any other sort of growth spurt, making me look disproportional and top-heavy. I remember all the strange looks and the disgust from adults, like it was my fault I had boobs. I think normalizing the fact that some kids have curves but they are still CHILDREN and not sexual is important. It just feels icky and dangerous to me to say that children have to look like children otherwise they are sex objects. (not saying that that's what you said. Just wanted to give me thoughts). No matter what a minor looks like, they are still a minor.
Like 90% of anime characters are underage by american standards, it's not changing. If you keep comparing yourself to anime characters the fault is on you, or more importantly your schizophrenia.
I feel like problems with depicting sexualised children have been an issue in japanese media for ages, my parent once made a good point that the school girl aesthetic is always sexualised while we were watching a japanese movie. While it is wrong, theres not really much westerners like myself can do to stop it.
No matter how you look at we are all ways different from japan, its also crazy that the whole arguement to the reason of this culture is underpopulation issues
I mean japanese people tend to look more child like. I can't remember the name of the chemical that give people round looks but the japanese are full of it.
@@Samm815 I remember the word they use to describe some asian people was neoteny/ neotenous. Don't remember what the chemical was or the reasoning behind it. I think I may have watched what your talking about a year ago.
What disturbs me the most isn't even the depiction of a child's body but the sexualization of a child's mind. Being turned on by a naive, defenseless and easy to manipulate and coerce child that isn't able to consent is simply disgusting. People who are attracted to that don't want consent. They want to fantasize about power and forcing their sick desires onto someone else.
I like how gentle and sweetly you talk about the issue. It's not completely charged and I don't feel overwhelmed when you talk about the issue. It's so nice to just hear you talk because you've got such a soothing voice and I think it helps when explaining issues like these.
@@RyuKaguya that's not the narrative cause though. There are real girls (usually with unfortunate histories) that are precocious and interested at that age.
@@priestesslucy3299 yeah see that IS the narrative here as im talking about the shows characters and one that annoys me more than the rest..her reasoning as to why the elementary school child is trying to hump the other dragon loli is unimportant. There is no philosophic discussion to be had here, she is creepy and pisses me off end of story.
Ok, i know you mention this on a follow up video, bit i feel it's important to also point out how one of the most popular characters has the "gimmick" of constantly making sexual advancements to a child who seems horrified by it. I would love nothing more than to have a curvy flirty character but a) she's going after a literal human child and b) insisting so much after getting clear as water rejections is plain old sexual harassment.
@@B_4035mn And the message is for guys to project onto the child because sometimes we just wanna be spoiled in every way, and he rejects her because otherwise this show would become a nakamura regura hentai adaptation. Seriously, I agree with being uncomfortable when the show seems to wanna make the child attractive, but in this case what's attractive is being in the child's place. Or is that distinction too nuanced for your understanding? I agree that the way Kanna is portrayed is cringeworthy. I don't agree with the same thing about Ilulu but I also see where people are coming from and to each their own. But Shouta's a straight man's fetish too, and it doesn't volve doing anything with him but *being* him. And if that kinda fantasy is not ok, then fucking cancel the entire adult persona fandom for liking being a highschooler with fictional woes rather than crippling real ones because they all wanna be a highschool-going minor. Or cancel the Yakuza series for the existence and prevalance of Patriarch Gondawara as a secondary character. See how sane that looks.
8:00 In art class (we were like 14) I drew a character with thigh-highs (and garterbelt) and some people were concerned and shocked and some straight-up complained. Like, I really just liked the look of it and didn't think more to that. I wasn't aware, that some people fetishized that. I knew it about leggings and certain socks, but to me thigh-highs covered MORE so I thought it would be less problematic. Like the character also had shorts AND a skirt, yet people were upset about the garterbelt the most. (The design was inspired by Alisia Boskonovitch's Tekken 6 outfit to get an idea)
I think that Beatrice from re:zero is a good "400 year old loli" . She acts her age (400 years old) and has incredible knowledge. She is not sexualized and neither is her design though she does have very childlike proportions and a childlike voice. Generally, I think re:zero deals well with child looking characters who are actually very old acting their age.
Yep, it's not about the proportions or even the 'development' of the chest. It's about the age of the brain and having enough life experience and brain development to consent. The biggest issue is when loli-appearing characters are shown going to fucking ELEMENTARY SCHOOL
I could say the same about Ayame from Kai Byoui Ramune. She is physically 9 years old, but she remembers her past life, which gives her 100 years of experience. She was never sexualized by the show, in fact, there was an episode where Ayame beat up two pedophiles. She acts her age, using her wisdom in difficult situations, and yet, sometimes she lets herself be a kid and have fun.
Man I love her sm, very well-written character To all who thinks ReZero is another Isekai bullshit with the author’s fetish roaming everywhere in the story, you should definitely give it a try.
@@BurningRubber454 Point still stands buddy. Having a strong sexual attraction towards a character who is specifically designed to both look and behave like a child irrespective of canonical age is still sickening. She quite literally attends a pre-school. You're disgusting
@@BurningRubber454 Ok then. Has anything I've said been incorrect? She look like a child, yes? She acts and sounds like a child, yes? She attends a pre school within the series, yes? She is egregiously and commonly sexualised, yes? Please tell me, has ANYTHING I've said so far been wrong?
This was a really good evaluation of the show and really illustrated coding in an excellent way. Tasteful. World needs more people who can approach topics like this from the basis of education. Great Job.
There's an alternate universe where Kobayashi was the best anime ever, just a beautiful and innocent show about a dragon's relationship with her wife and adoptive daughter. One where the kid characters are normal and Iruru doesn't exist at all. One where the mangaka isn't a pedophile. That's the most tragic part of this show to me
I remember when I just got into anime and started binging a bunch of shows based on their score from MAL, and when I stumbled into dragon maid I initially really enjoyed it but ended up dropping it after the whole "kanna scenes" started becoming more frequent because it made me extremely uncomfortable. Little did I know that this "1000 year old loli" trope was super common in anime, and I eventually got used to it, this video is a harsh reminder of why I thought it was uncomfortable in the first place, and now I feel kinda disappointed in myself. what's worse, is that there are a lot of people who are willing to outright defend this trope publicly...
@@Mecks089 I really like how the main arguments against people complaining about underaged character coding are about so many things except actually addressing the main issue of oversexualization of minors... Of course I'm vilifying them... Cause they are LITERALLY defending something that's illegal in many countries...
@@Someone-wr4ms since you seem to want someone to argue against your point let me state my perspective. Let's start with the fact that the creators obviously always want their work to do well. Part of this is knowing your audience and appealing to them. If the audience is mainly made up of male teens and young adults who want to see sexualized female characters then can you really blame the creators for delivering? Whether for having a varied roster of characters or to appeal to a specific demographic, sexualized characters with childlike properties are occasionally made. Personally, I don't have issues with these sorts of characters due to them often having physical properties that distinguish them from actual kids as well as being mentally mature. Kanna, for one, has tree trunks for thighs, double the widths of that of the children in the show, making a clear distinction between her and an actual human child. As for mental maturity, I can't speak for Kanna as I've yet to watch season 2 and watched season 1 a long time ago but in most cases, these sorts of characters are hundreds if not thousands of years old for a reason. The whole point of intimate sexual actions with children being illegal is due to them lacking the mental capacity to properly think for themselves and make the correct life decisions. But this is no longer the case if the character is already mentally mature and has vast life experience. Denying them sexual maturity would be denying midgets sexual maturity. And all because you think they look like children, which is absurd. It's not about what an individual looks like but about if they can make rational and educated decisions. I personally don't feel it's that big of a deal since it doesn't hurt anybody what creative liberties the creators take. It's not offending anyone nor is it inciting anything within anyone. It seems to me like people just like to bring it up as a shallow attempt to feel morally superior to others.
I swear, had the genders between Lucoa and Shouta been swapped, people would question it. Theres this weird double standard where if a guy gets sexually harrassed or in awkward positions(case in point, Shouta), its passed off for laughs, but if the genders were swapped, where its the girl (say, in this example, loli x old man), it would be creepy.
@@InvaderBB Im guessing theyre referring to her making a video liking Toilet Bound Hanako, and the main cast are shota (child like characters) Tho, personally, I havent watched the show and the video, so I cant speak on it much on it. I suggest watching the video and researching the anime/manga before making a conclusion (as there are people who argue in bad faith)
real fans aways Say to not lewd the Dragon Loli, but they are saying to not make Hentais of it, this is Ecchi, and is so Little to majority, they don't care or didn't even notice it was intentional, they seen fine even if they show the girl blushing with Kanna's movements. the only one's that notice it, are those that didn't liked.
Honestly, I don't know why anyone is surprised. The series literally has a male child in it named Shouta who gets flustered by a curvy woman. Naming him "shota" is so on the nose, it hurts.
@@dollyinterrupted it is! Shōta (or Shouta) is a boy's name. its just unfortunate that it has this kind of connotation if one is unaware that its a genuine name. i dont know a lot of jpn yet, though im slowly studying it, but 'shota' as in 'shotacon' means 'young boy', where as Shōta/Shouta is dependent on which characters are used to write it. Aizawa's first name is written kinda weirdly and iirc is a bit of word play for his quirk/hero name
Is shota really not that well known tho? I thought almost everybody in the anime community knows that shota is the opposite of loli. Probably because I read bl mangas, so I encounter some shotacon mangas sometimes.
@@kemma_ i dont actually know how well known lolisho is, mostly cause i try to avoid it the best i can, but almost everyone ive met didnt know that Shōta is a given name, they just knew about the similar sounding 'shota as in shotacon' from the trope. it makes me kinda sad for all the irl people out there actually named Shōta :/
This is a very good essay, but I do have one objection: Where you make the argument that maybe the artist was trying to get away with depicting something that might be immoral or illegal (14:35)... I'm going to have to point you back at your own clip compilation of Kanna being sexualized. She's designed as being one step above an actual toddler and they are still doing all of that. The specific reason that Ilulu is designed how she is, isn't so the author can get away with things. It's so the author has the excuse to do "teen romance" tropes. What we have in "dragon maid" is an open and blatant collage of fetishes. This is the intended messaging. It's softcore porn. You have the maid-master dynamic, the mortal and the godlike being, the older woman/shota dynamic (his name is literally shouta!) and in Ilulu, we have a vaguely young teenagerish girl who is naive and has a massive rack forever flustering her older but still teenaged male coworker. And there is no denying that Kanna is meant to be the loli in the room, and frankly, given that it's JAPAN, you should be thankful that the author's chosen love interest for Kanna is technically age appropriate, though wildly sexually inappropriate (there is a big cultural conversation to be had about how such a young girl got so godsdamned horny, likely from the easy unfiltered access to porn). Literally every dragon character represents SOME sort of fetish, regardless of its appropriateness. And frankly it's a little weird that you spend such a long time complaining about Kanna and just mostly ignore what's happening to Shouta (who is convinced he's being haunted by a succubus).
Probably didn't mention Shouta bc his situation is a little less defendable. I don't hear ANYONE defending that the same way they do with Kanna and Ilulu, because Shouta is an actual human child, and Lucoa is a whole ass adult (in both species and human standards). The most I'd ever see is some flavor of the whole "you think drawings should have human rights" strawman stuff. At least with Kanna and Ilulu there's still that sense of "plausible" deniability (something something 1000 year old dragon, something something short =/= child, etc.)
Shouta isn’t coded as a child (he is a child canonically) so there’s no debate in his case. She’s making a video about child Coding to get past criticism specifically.
I mean to be fair, from what little I know of the show; Grogu both looks and acts like an infant. Kana also looks and acts the equivalent of his age. But your statement doesn't line up 1:1 for character who either look older and act younger (only one that comes to mind is Casca who probably could be better described as acting as an adult with severe developmental difficulties), or half the stuff where they have a random young looking (like creepily young) looking girl who acts older. Fire Emblem has one or 2 I think (I believe TvTropes used one of them on a page about this) or like a quarter of elf characters. Not to say your take is bad or wrong, just that it best applies to the series used as an example in the series.
@@malcire it's more of a hyper intelligent baby hes scheming the entire time but also cant help but enjoy playing peekaboo and eating with his hands like a baby
Mother's Basement in his "the worst Isekai anime" says something that I completely agree with. while people like me who are fine lolis and shotas have no problem with how they are shown, there are still people who are uncomfortable with their depiction, which is where "their age is no shorter than 3 digits" comes into play. while it doesn't bother me so the numbers are meaningless, adding an unrealistically long age helps people who are uncomfortable with the character turn a blind eye and keep watching the show.
There's also Kess and Neelix from Star Trek Voyager for the opposite end of the "in-universe age isn't an excuse": Kess is a young adult at only... four years old? Her species has an *extremely* rapid growth cycle and reaches full, psychologically and emotionally mature adulthood very, very quickly. Dog years, give or take. Ultimately there are other factors that need to be taken into account. Is the character super naive, or extremely competent? Are they easily overwhelmed or do they have the might of ten gods backing their every move? An actual "lolibaba" would have behavioral tendencies more befitting an adult, even if they have childish moments. Alka from Last Dungeon Boonies is *very* "large and in charge" and behaviorally gives more cougar vibes than anything despite having a loli-type appearance. She literally gets called "lolibaba" in the show by her own student. A LOT. I'm not here to discuss how problematic her behavior is or isn't - I'm providing an example of a 3-digit-age loli who actually comes across as 3-digit-aged and could be dismissed as "actually an adult in a tiny body". In fact, there's a cyclical murder mystery visual novel and anime that features a character who seems like a normal child but ends up revealed to be, in practice, very old and wise. No fanservice there that I know of, so have fun. No, I'm not telling you shit: that would be spoilers. >:3c In short: you can't say "Kanna's actually old so it's fine" because the way she's WRITTEN runs 100% counter to that.
I love dragon maid but I can’t stand Lucoa’s relationship to Shota along with most of Riko’s relationship to Kanna. As someone who watches a ton of anime, although I’ve grown kinda numb to these sorts of things as they happen frequently, I still hate that they still pop up and probably won’t go away anytime soon.
it doesn't bother me, but they sure are a distraction, on "reicanated as a Slime" they always focus on Shion's boobs. I like anime boobs, but at that moment i was trying to pay attention to the plot
@@lucasyoshikawa5933 it's the same reason i dropped Fire Force. I'm all for fanservice but there's time and place for it. Right after the girl being sexualized got her teeth beaten in and during a major fight is not one of those right times.
I'm glad you brought up the example of bnha's La Brava! When I first saw her, I was a bit weirded out as I thought her character was child-coded but made 22-24 to excuse her relationship with a 35 y/o (that incidentally is coded to look older than that), but when I saw what her quirk was it kind of clicked I don't think she was child-coded perse (which you addressed with her being curvy and being explicitly referred to as an adult, etc.), but rather I think her design was perhaps meant to emulate that of a cherub/love angel? Since her quirk revolves around love and giving power to those she loves, I assume that's why she has the smaller-than-normal proportions-- to further liken her to a cherub. To me it was only driven home when we got to see her as an actual teen (in which she didnt have dark circles and had shorter hair), and how it was brought up that her proportions made it hard for her to be taken seriously as her actual age I think these were things that the dragon maid characters lack and why its harder to believe they're "adults" or mature given their age DESPITE their design I could be wrong here but I thought it would be interesting to bring up as further consideration to why a character like La Brava =/= Ilulu or Kanna
@StrangerDanger i did watch the video,but i also watched the newest episode of koboyashis dragon maid the 16 part is a cover up her age is actually tohrus as for the anatomy and behavoir i heavilly dissagree with that as for me shes more mature than kanna and is treated as an adult by other characters
@StrangerDanger like i said i watched the episode where she said she was 16, it was when she started working at Takes shop,she said she was 16 and then in her head said "at leasts that i was told to say" it was season 2 ep 5 or 6.now your other comment,no i dont go and say every short person is an adult its obvious that kanna is a child i just dont agree that illulu is ,even though she immature she still has more life experince than kanna and while i agree that her face may be young-looking her body tells a diffrent story.if i were to make illulu character i would have made her taller and more like lucoa but make her a little unstable due to her past,but thats just my preffrences.to shes just like uzaki,like i like the big baabs but i dont like the personality that why in both shows i preffer lucoa or tsuki uzaki
Coded to look like a cherub? You mean the angel that is explicitly coded as a child? Yea nah just because it's one step further removed doesn't make it any better. La Brava was the moment I realised the p3d0s in the audience weren't an accident, the anime is explicitly catering to them. Also the exact moment and reason I gave up on that anime.
I'm aware this might be a rhetorical question, but it's actually a really interesting one so I'm taking a shot at answering it. Whether or not you read this it was definitely an enjoyable thought exercise to consider why people react in this way, so thank you TL;DR I imagine it isn't as much the characters themselves as it is how the creator presents the content/surrounding context and framing. In fiction, violence is usually framed within a narrative as either unnecessary (ex the murder of Batman's parents) or justified (ex Batman beating up criminals). Typically, the villains exercise unnecessary violence while the heroes exercise justified violence. Morally ambiguous characters are a good example of framing- a character might have a noble goal that they pursue using unnecessary violence, or a very selfish goal that causes them to commit justified violence. The message is usually clear: "these actions are bad, but their goal is good" or vice versa. As far as I'm aware, most of the people upset about, say, loli or shota, don't have issues with sex existing in media (if they do... that is an entirely separate discussion). I'd go so far as to say their problem isn't even pedophilic topics arising in media (again, another conversation if so)- it's how the creator approaches the topic. Using another manga to contrast Dragon Maid, Guts from Berserk is preyed on as a kid. The narrative makes it very clear that this is a tragedy. Lucoa coming onto Shouta isn't an inherently bad plot point, I think people take issue with how the narrative treats that as funny/quirky/hot. Framing is often a look into the author's own perspective, given how meta it is. EVEN IF a writer does not personally hold a certain set of values, if their narrative framing conveys those values, the audience will likely perceive the writer as believing them regardless. If Chuck Palahniuk framed Tyler Durden's actions in Fight Club as ethically justified, public response to the work might be different. The point is no longer "this is a satire of excessive focus on violence in our society", it is instead "terrorism and brutality are good". So, when you apply that concept to works where the sexualization of child characters is portrayed in a positive light, the author appears to support that topic- making it more "real". Now there are people who say that they support loli or shota without supporting sexualization of real children. That's a whole other can of worms, though, and this is long enough as it is.
@@CBman11037 I mean, that's fair. I was mostly analyzing the logic of the people the original commenter was talking about- because the sentiment does seem a bit hypocritical. Not necessarily my own perspective- but given my status as a HxH fan I know better than to open my whore mouth about such things. We must be seen and not heard. Have a nice day.
disney sort of age-codes their protagonists too. I say sort of because elsa and anna are definitely adults (or near), but their face proportions are very childlike. same with moana. this is part of why i found raya sooooo refreshing because she actually looks like an adult in comparison to elsa. obviously this is not for the purpose of sexualizing, probably to be more attractive to children
I believe Elsa is 23-5 by the end of the second movie and Anna I think is 21 because that's the age when a queen comes into her reign I'm not sure if I agree with the idea that they are age coded though- idk, they've always looked and felt like young adults but that could just because I think of the movies
You try to make something for everyone in a character design, and quite often you end up making something that has no real-life equivalent and feels alien if you look at it too closely.
IMO Elsa doesn't look that young. With her long neck and the long body I had guessed her 20 from the beginning. Dunno about her face, but it becomes notable in context, her face looks just like other adults, like her mother and villagers and different to kids faces.
i think what you said near the end about how the story is so good you're willing to sit through the uncomfortable parts to watch the found family and queer romance parts resonates with me a whole lot. i like dragon maid for those aspects and im a sucker for wild character designs like tohru. i still think kanna is cute, i just wish her skirt was longer and wore tights instead of thigh highs
15:47 "People can watch media that is problematic critically and just because they watched it or liked some aspects of it does not inherently make them problematic in the same way..."
@@elgatochurro the boy isn't sexualized in anyway In that show and simping just means throwing money or giving attention too someone who wont give it back it's not inherently sexual so your "point" doesn't make any sense.
THANK YOUU. You this topic was handled this topic with such fluidity and grace. It’s a messy topic it’s a gross one at times. I have short friends many of them one of my close friends is a teenager and shes below my chest and I’m only 5’3. I stopped watching dragon maid before the wired child stuff because I forgot abt it and my brother was a toy more into it then me and he saw the wired mess and left. It sucks becsuse it’s got good things going on. But the wired news of yk that.. is just so gross and off putting mostly as a girl who’s been sexulized far before I became a woman or womanly in shape at least. Things like this just really take the enjoyment and magic out of anime in general because it’s not just this one animals and the entire community in general is riddle with this kinda crap that makes a fool of the really amazing things anime has to offer.
A friend got me into dragon maid for Lucoa because he knows I’d like her. But the design choice for Kanna and her relationship with Saikawa really put me off. Still love the anime, I just like to look past, all the, other things. The relationship between Kobayashi and Tohru is the best part of the show
Im pretty sure you are not suppose to like everyone and more so there is a character for everyone, what that says about kanna is left to those that like her, people act like if they dont like something then something is wrong with the media when no you arent supposed to like everything, there are characters in shows i cant stand but love the shows regardless because the stories and characters are great
People say that it's ok for kanna to be sexualised because she is like 1000 years old but like, most of those weird scenes involve Saikawa who is a literal child
The Anime Community gets worse and worse. Stuff has just leveled up with a certain scandal i dont want to mention by Name. This Video talks about just one of the many, many, many issues... It has become so easy to explain-away that Sex between Children or variations of that is ok cause 'Well, in truth, theyre actually much older, duh'. This is not not-objectively bad, but objectively bad. And in some Anime/Manga you can really tell how totally LAZILY it is done. Its obvious for any idiot that its 'just an EXCUSE'. More and more is normalized. More and more. Sex Sells and so many other problems are growing; but i cant stress enough that this again is just an 'Example'.
@@8_8787so… I can’t condemn my classmates for drawing the H man’s symbol in class, mocking the religion the N@zis stole it from by sticking all sorts of KKKK symbolism all over it, and white-cone-hats committing war crimes and hate crimes simultaneously? Also, to clarify, KKKK is basically “KKK: The Sequel: H Man edition”, sadly, yes, it exists, there’s FIVE different KKK resurgence variants right now. Specifically the USA, maybe there’s more overseas, haven’t found more data yet.
One big problem with discussing lolis is that there is the category where they are just short girls and the category where they are basically children that get discussed as if they are the same group when one is normal while the other is creepy and people act as if they are both the same group without ever differentiating
That's because they're the same thing in anime, because anime isn't real, and those girls have no "age" in a true sense, that's a concept that only exists for living human beings.
@@joshs7160 Yeah most lolis still look like 6 year olds and behave as if they were. They may not have a real age like you say but in this case kanna is sexualized while being portrayed to us "human living things" as a kindergardener, and that's where the problem is
@@fergi5068 lolis look 12 yo on average, so twice what you said, and they definitively don't act like kids does kids brutally murder peoples? I don't think so, now that's 99% of the lolis in action anime out
@@sp4c1ng_0ut8 I'm fine with outing 1% of the lolis, what's left is usually bad anyway like chloe von eizbern from fate kaleid so you can just ignore them
I also hate how pedophilia is used as a joke in this series. Biggest thing is with lucoa quite literally grooming an elementary schooler and its portrayed as "Cute" and "Funny".
Fun fact: One of my OCs was actually inspired by these animes with characters who the writers claim to be older than they look and/or act (like the millenium-old dragon lolis, along with characters like Uzaki-chan who are canonically college-age, but looks and arguably acts like a young teenager) And come to think of it, the concept I went for is very similar to La Brava from MHA, as was talked about in the video; She's an adult woman who just so happens to be short. The OC's name is Carla, she's 24 years old, but stopped growing at the age of 6, so she stands at a height of just over 3 feet. The only thing she hates more than reloading in a First-person shooter is being called a child. Oh! And one note about proportions, in the comic The Game Couch, where Carla is from, everyone’s head is roughly the same size (~1 foot), and "how many heads tall" is merely a measure of the character’s height, in which case Carla is just over 3 heads tall, with most other characters being in the 5-6 head range.
the concept of "1000 year old dragon appearing as a 10 year old" can actually be interesting and cool when it's not sexualized, which is basically almost never
Dragon Maid is one of my favorite shows, but I'd never blame someone for dropping it or criticizing it for its problematic parts. If you liked the good parts of it but couldn't stomach the bad, I highly recommend checking out the fanfic scene for it because you are NOT alone.
@@rodrigomaximilianomarquezm5430 because the parts not focused on the sexual Parts depicts a very sweet queer relationship between the two main characters and is genuinely often wholesome although I definitely agree it’s hard to call the show overall wholesome due to the horrible subtext/loli content
@@the_pixel_possum Translation: It's hard to call it wholesome because I have been told to be offended by it and thus it it is mandatory that I be offended by it
@@ootdega ...T-told? If multiple people individually analyse and come to a conclusion then...y'know what, I'm not even gonna bother since apparently if you don't personally have a problem with something then nobody ever should.
The biggest problem i have with the character designs is how they try to push sexualized designs as simply "cute" or "moe" without recognizing a difference between them. I probably didnt word this well, but i hope its understandable? Either way, its nice to hear someone talk about it in a non twitter baby rage type of way, aka using facts and logic.
Yeah I get what you mean. As a girl I took my time to get used to all the weird design choices, behaviours, philosophies and fanservice in anime. I mean, I can enjoy anime despite this, but it kind of has influenced me to disregard any of it in a sexual way. Like: "Okay, I'm not interested in Lolis in any sexual way, but let's try to embrace the cute". I'm now starting to think that that's an issue though, seeing how many people feriously defend bizarre sexual portrayals even though they personally have nothing to gain from them.
That's is a stupid argument since 1 the writers of the show are human not dragon and 2 they clearly depict the dragon of the show with human like trait of character and personality, like the whole found family thing...
@@Chipperbane Dragons are comparable enough in this setting to humans to be able to have romantic and sexual relationships. Having standards for what is and isn't manipulative emotionally and physically in those relationships is an essential concept. Pretending the dragons are not a type of people that can do this is unreasonable.
@@carbonn5998 yeah I don’t remember the exact detail cause this was over a year ago but im pretty sure called hanako-kun sexy and drew suggestive bakudeku content and stuff idk if there was more but there was weird stuff on their tumblr I don’t think they ever addressed it they just kinda disappeared
@@Model_BT-7274 I always watch before commenting. It’s common sense! Anyway, I have a brain that works differently than most people, and tend to see motion in one continuous blur. I also just disagree that some of the scenes were framed sexually. Though I do think the “humorous exaggeration of a childhood crush” running gag with the brunette went too far sometimes, but nothing flatly immoral.
I am so happy you went into detail about the artistic design of adults vs children. This is an interesting discussion that is never talked about outside of art classes.
Actually, "shotacon" is named after a character named Shotaro (Shotaro Kaneda from Tetsujin 28, THE Giant Robot manga), it's an abbreviature of "Shotaro Complex".
@@TamTam-rq4nc I can attest, calling a young male character in shotacon situations "shota" is like a running joke in japan. But obviously all of it is fine because they are fictional characters
@@pangean2986 i know its supposed to be a joke, but its also normalizing that type of behavior. I personally don't think we should joke about adult women acting predatory towards children, even if they are fictional. It makes it seem like that type of behavior isn't a big deal. Idk, I just think its weird 🤠
@kuromimin Problem is the only "Sexualized character" is Lucoa, who already has a body much bigger in height and chest size than the average adult Japanese woman. But of course, people who don't watch the show and simply assume wouldn't know for themselves would they.
@@TurtleChad1 ? My statement was literally that the only sexualized character in the show is "coded" as you guys say to be an adult woman, and that any other sense of sexualization comes from immature people thinking anyone touching anyone is sexual.
Yeah exactly the first time I watched it I was a minor myself and I remember feeling a bit uncomfortable but ultimately ignoring it because I loved the wholesome moments of the show. Now I can see these things shouldn’t be overlooked as easily
This is actually the first video of yours that I've seen - I asked my BF to explain why he was concerned with this anime, and he linked me this. I think you did such a fantastic job with this.
I'm glad to see a nuanced take that actually notes the difference between small women and children instead of acting like every single short character is automatically child coded. Though I acknowledge that that's a rough line to draw in anime given that Japan like infantilizing it's women.
@@woot12598 false. Most words develop out of a need to express something. This sense of the word 'coding' exists because some Marxists sought another way to gaslight neurofunctional people so as to bully them into compliance. Similar to what was done in the case of "racism", "bigotry" and "dogwhistle", this word follows the typical commie soulless and uncreative pattern of taking something that already exists, and twisting it to your purposes.
Why does no one point out the fact that saying a character is 1000 years old means absolutely nothing. We would have to be told what their species’ full lifespan is to estimate how mature they are for their species. 1000 years old would still be messed up if they’re expected to live 10,000 years
Assuming you're not trolling, development doesn't have to scale with life span . Could be a species that matures at the same rate we do but maintains mid 30is health and appearance for a 1000yrs. The 1000yr old dragon loli argument is dumb because the character is clearly portrayed as a child in looks and behavior.
Development doesn't have to scale with lifespan. There are animals that know how to walk and even hunt straight out of the womb. There is a type of worm that is sexually mature the minute they are born!
@@xpluto13x But more often than not is the statement 'Development scales with lifespan true'? Because if that wasent the case majority of animals would be able to reproduce at ages much older
@@usmanyounas5181 I don't know if it's the same for every species, but considering that it doesn't always scale, it doesn't have to scale in fictional species either
• It was proven she was a hypocrite, so her videos on this topic were bullshit. • She has uploaded in over a year, even her patreon is dead. Your hypocrite feminist is gone.
It's kind of ridiculous when you consider the people who harrassed her are people who generally claim to believe that you shouldn't villainize people because of their feelings about fictional content. Like, either stand by that and engage in respectful debate at most or don't cherry-pick when you decide to be respectful. Personally, I don't think Kobayashi is meant to be attractive to pedophiles, and I very much enjoy the show, but I'm still very uncomfortable with some moments and 100% why that makes people drop it or even find it 'suspicious' for lack of a better word.
I mean.... they're not always, and context does matter, but the way theyre used on kanna (was that her name?) is definitely supposed to evoke a sense of eroticism... which is freakin weird to say the least
@@s2sHoXXs2 pornography and eroticism are not the same thing, though. Edit: Kanna's depiction is pornography, Kobayashi and Thor's relationship is eroticism.
I think it's because historically they'd be close to stockings, which you'd clip onto your girdle and people would only see the top of your sticking if you were going to fun town. Think of pinup pictures, it's mostly women showing off their stockings.
@@themyofmy Just enjoy the drawings you enjoy. Fiction isn't reality, and as long as no one was actually harmed in the making of something, it's free expression
My favorite part of this video is that you actually took the time to explain the dragon age argument. A typical dragon's lifespan is much longer than 1,000 years which does indeed make that argument redundant as defensive evidence, so I'm very grateful that someone actually pointed out and used this fact.
But a life span doesnt corallate maturatiy some creatures can be mature at the human equivelent of 18 and still live longer lives proprtionaly to humans its no thr case here but can be in other media
The main problem is that dragons don’t exist and the characters look like human children. I know it can feel good arguing over semantics but the “1000 year old dragon” argument is made in bad faith and engaging with it validates their point of view as something to be debated.
@@KingOfDarknessAndEvil Id say its the perception. Its still bad if its either gender but have you noticed that whenever a a guy gets sexually harrassed, usually by an older woman, its funny, but if its a girl getting the same treatment, the man doing it to her is creepy. Its a double standard imo, I've seen in media, not exclusive to anime.
The creator is obsessed with shotacon and lolicon, he's one of those creepy doujin guys who just happened to make something more soft core that he could pass it off as comedy
Bingo, same with that bully fetish Nagatoro character, that's obviously also a minor. The creator is known for making past hentai doujinshi's that reference loli, and even look similar to that reocurring design.
@@lordnokia4222 i already hate nagatoro for reinforcing that "guys would want this because it's from a woman" narrotive. Now i see more of a reason to dislike it.
And then you have someone like Kohta Hirano who also used to do hentai, but nothing shota or lolicon as far as I've ever been able to find, and has some of the best female characters I've seen in anime/manga as a whole. Like he puts in plenty of pervy shit but the framing worked (and even the SA scenes got framed as the horrid acts they are not just torture porn), and he made sure everyone involved in the more comical pervy bits were stated and depicted as adults (Seras is i believe 19/20). It isn't perfect but goes to show just how low the bar is and how few mangaka can even manage getting past it.
Being short and having big boobs is not "problematic". It's a character exaggeration. This is just fucking Uzaki-chan all over again. "Peepee poopoo cartoons with unrealistic fantasy characters waah"
I keep forgetting the parts between the Shouta and Lucoa, I think I just keep repressing them. As for the Kanna bits, put together like that it's definitely too far. It's a shame that what is otherwise a sweet story is spliced with this kind of thing. Like precocious kids (referring to Riko) exist, but that is going way overboard, bordering if not crossing into fetishistic.
I really like the show, and still pushed through the whole thing, although this video brought alot to light for me. I think Shouta and Lucoa's relationship couldve been written better. It could have been a pubescent boy just feeling new things about women he never has before, and also having more sexual knowledge since he's in 5th - 6th grade (And lets be honest, kids that age aren't very innocent anymore). But the way it was portrayed was just straight up assalt. At first, I kinda think it was a joke about an pubescent boy having more sexual thoughts due to hormones, but I think they took it way too far. Before, I never noticed Kana's design, but now I notice how they plumpened her thighs and made her overall a bit more sexual. I think Kana is adorable and I wish the Kana and Saikawa thing was just a cute little crush but its just... Too far. Honestly I think the character who was basically the least out of the problems was Fafnir. Most chill character in the anime, partially stayed for that guy.
@@willowarkan2263 I remember one time the health teacher was explaining acne and pimples and then he said puss and one of the guys in the back moaned. good times.
Considering the author of this manga calls himself a lolicon, and reading the source material, its amazing how much more tame the anime is LMAO. I’ll give it to kyoani for trying their best
Finally someone said it! It doesn't matter how many human years old is a character, but how old is the character for their species and how are they presented in the story!
@Ty The Great Yeah, fantasy can get really weird if you try to think it with real life logic. It's not even sarcasm, I suck writing fantasy because I want the fantastic things to be "realistic" which is kinda dumb
This made me feel a lot better about my oc since for a while I was struggling coming up with an accurate age for him. His appearance is that he is babyfaced and really short (4.8) due to genetics and that his personality is that he is Optimistic and a bit naive. I never intended to actually child code him but with the way he is it kind of seems like it, however the character is very intelligent being a literal theoretical physicist but since he was more sheltered growing up which is why he is quick in trusting others and trying to find the bright side of things. Because of his job there is no way he is still a child but because of his appearance he still look’s prepubescent
@@bigsealfan9579 I don't think it's a Muslim thing. Its a cultural thing. Go to Pakistan for example and people will laugh at u for wearing eye liner as a male. I've never heard about this eye liner shi in Islam and I'm a Muslim myself.
@@user-jh5wt8lq9x kohl eyeliner is quite common in middle eastern countries, maybe not in south asian countries like pakistan though I mostly see bedouin people w kohl in the middle east though
I think fans understand coded character design more than they let on because I clearly remember the shit show that was the discourse around She-Ra reboot.
@Yoshiko Tsushima I dunno who you were replying to due to UA-cam always assuming you responded to everyone in the comments so I just wanted to ask if you meant the main comment or me xd
It was less a discourse based on "coding" and more on how the character is remarkably different from the original. New She-Ra isn't coded to be tomboy-ish and non-sexualized, she's explicitly tomboy-ish and non-sexualized.
Interestingly my first issue with this show despite how much I love season one is Lucoa and Shota kun. Maybe I'm not looking at the right places but almost none of the comments on yt clips mention how disturbing it is that Lucoa is literally forcing her breasts on a middle schooler. The whole dynamic just screams grooming and not to mention Shota ALWAYS objects to these advances. Unlike Kanna and Ilulu where people can debate about their age, Lucoa is presented as a full grown woman and she is literally hundreds of thousands of years old. There is no doubt she is a full grown adult. If people have issues with Edward and Bella, this is imo a hundred times worse. Shota kun cannot and didn't consent. Also Shota's parent see Lucoa doing this to Shota and does NOTHING and basically approves. Is this because this shows audiences are mostly male so guys don't think much of this? For a show with such outstanding wholesome moments it has equally the amount problematic ones.
i literally HATED lucoa because of her predatory behavior. it's so crazy to find you be one of the first to point it out. like yeah the implications of kanna and ilulu are weird as hell too but can we take a moment to also look at our boy shouta (whose name is literally "little boy"???)
most people, a lot of comments here, and me have a bias towards boys. It is like male r@p@, it is a comedy for other works but when it is a female it is a tragedy. If the male has a hot female companion then we cheer, ugly and we feel bad but never horrified or disgusted like little girls and uncles.
OK, while I disagree with... quite a few points in this video (especially at the end) I have to applaud level headed approach, disclamer about doxxing (I hate that we live in times when it's needed) and reasonable take on the topic.
how is that a problem? should we ban movies like Saw? it promotes obscene violence for things like cheating and lying. are you saying you're okay with that? you need a therapist if you can't differentiate fact and fiction. is your western brain so weak and mushy that you're influenced by fiction? people are so brain-dead these days. can't think for themselves. can't align their own moral compass. need the government to tell them what to watch, where to watch it, how to watch it and when and with whom to watch it.
@@phxcppdvlazi I'm honestly baffled as to how you don't understand that fiction can actually while angrily typing a comment made over your attachment to a fictional show. Maybe you should have watched the whole video before making the comment?
@@joshs7160 Definition of child prngrphy: "Child prngrphy can also be drawn, written or created by a computer. In that case, it is called" simulated child prngrphy, virtual child prngrphy, non photographic child prngrphy or pseudo photographic child prngrphy": the child in the prngrphy is simulated, virtual or drawn, meaning the child is NOT REAL"
Sadly, as much as it pains me to say this, I must agree with you. I was hoping that Dragon Maid would be the one romcom anime that finally stands above the rest, and it kinda was for a time. The scenes with Kobayashi and Tohru were quite nice and could have led to a heartfelt romance. However, the focus on younger characters in sexual situations was beginning to get uncomfortable. I can ignore it at first for the use of maybe a joke or two, but when it keeps happening again and again things start getting suspicious. I really wanted to give Dragon Maid a good rating but I just cannot in good conscious anymore. Illulu's design reminds me of a certain character in Eiken, and trust me you do not want your anime to be compared to that trash heap in any shape or form.
I'm sorry. If it's any consolation, I ended up in a distinct but concerning dynamic in an otherwise enjoyable series/concept. I assume you've heard of Ancient Magus' Bride? Lovely animation, wonderful stories, excellent atmosphere. The thing where our audience surrogate is bought by a man, kept by her somewhere where she knows no one else, and she is just meant to eventually marry him eventually is a pill I could not swallow. It just lent an uncomfortable undercurrent to things that I really could've done without.
You know, it's always been strange being an anime fan and a victim of child sexual abuse. It's sickening but you kind of just have to put up with it because many people are naive to the problems the community has. I've always hoped that one day there'd be a legitimate anime on child sexual abuse that kind of slaps everyone in the face that ignores this type of issue, really makes the medium question the choices it has made.
@@elusive_reverie yes I'm a map, I'm anti-contact and work with therapist in prevention programs along with other survivors of CSA and csem What exactly is the problem?
"for his species, he is a baby!" reminded me of that one DnD post where somebody imagined a bartender asking for "age and species" and pulling out a gigantic book of alcohol restricting ages for every species.
That actually sounds really interesting 😆
Copying that
'ah, it says here that... he's a kobold, right? if i can find it... ah, here. it says that kobolds under 8 cannot drink.'
@@ThatGuyBobbythey reach maturity at 6 years
That’s awesome, taking that idea for inspiration.
Gotta admit was kinda funny when she said “hope this isnt the first video of mine you’re watching” and thats exactly the situation here lol
Same.
Same
Yeah this had to be the one to blow up right?
same man
Same
A bit off topic, but won’t people be weirded out when Kana doesn’t age and would theoretically stay in the same grade forever. Like Kana’s friend is grow up and Kana will still be the same.
honestly that's kinda funny to think about like imagine being a senior in high school and this nine year old just pulls up
@@thenyancatcookie me going to college
@@thenyancatcookiei feel like it leads to the very depressing train of thought of shes gonna have to watch all her friends grow old and die and still have another few hundred years left to live
That is possible, but it's equally as possible it doesn't happen. I think it's Fafnir that says dragon's human bodies are a function of perception. If going to school and being around people her age causes her to reconsider her perception of herself, she could also appear to physically age. Or not because episodic moe. You pick.
Well she would age mentally (which is what matters), but yeah the child body thing is still weird as fuck (although fun fact there is a woman whose body never aged past a child's and she suffers greatly)
"I hope this isn't the first video of mine you're watching"
The algorithm: "guess I'd better show this video to absolutely everyone"
Yep, this was my first video lol
mine as well
me as well
Yeah it was my first video.
Almost, it was the 2nd one.
Hello! Jaafar wearing eyeliner is actually a big part of early middle eastern culture and mannerisms, eyeliner was invented for men to wear! And in the desert it was often worn to protect the waterline from sand storms and such.
Spot on, thanks for commenting this!
@@andrewphilos I don't need to point out the fact that your comment just contributes to middle eastern erasure, which the movie itself is already guilty of as is, but eyeliner was an extremely prominent part of that history and wearing eyeliner in the desert is something people still do, so maybe read up a little.
@@andrewphilos I was pointing out the eyeliner as being one of the things that they accurately depicted, whether or not the character Jafaar is supposed to be queer coded isn't to be determined by his eyeliner. Your argument is that he is queer coded because eyeliner is not typically masculine, I'm counteracting that argument by stating that it was worn by men and women alike in the middle east and didn't indicate sexual identity. I made my initial comment that pointed this out because I felt that passing it off as queer coding instead of acknowledging this part of our history felt a bit odd.
Can I consult you on the eyeliner thing to make a character based off this
I’m trying to draw more a more diverse cast for my manga
@mackenzie6744 I feel like that it was the intent of Disney, though. We already know Disney is infamous for erasing culture, and we see only bad or evil characters in Aladdin having eyeliner. If it was en reference to the historical context, why would they only use it for those specific circumstances. For this, I feel like intention rules over historical context. It'd be more clear if it was Aladdin as well that had eyeliner.
"I hope this isn't the first video of mine you're seeing."
UA-cam: "So anyway, I started recommending."
ahahah best version of this comment I've seen so far
You to huh 😂
yeah this is the first vid ive seen-
yep i just found this Channel :))
Facts man
as a short woman thank you for saying that short adults are not the same thing as literal children
A Turtle doesn't approve of people who compare short woman to literal children.
Mhmm. I've been the same height since grade 6. I'm now in my third year of university. Definitely not a literal child lol
Yes thank you. Ignore any dumb ass replies.
You can draw a short woman without making them look like a child
@@rpghorrorfan879 yeah there's a big difference in animated media, short women and women that look like 8 year olds look totally different
14:29 warm take, I think, but I'd say that giving a character a developed chest in an attempt to offset child coding doesn't even work because, typically, people develop chests before they stop being children. Breasts are not a reliable indicator of adulthood.
I was more or less done with the physical changes of puberty by the time I was 13.
Polymorphic beings that chose their human body looks,though(and could shape shift it to look different if they want as stated by the "you should change your body next" crack)
People that can't tell the difference between Lolis and Children are the ones low key self reporting that they suffer basic identity disphoria at the very least or are the ones that end up like Vaush at worse(self projecting CP should be legal avocate horse fucker calling out people that just want to watchthe damn Anime in peace)
what bothers me (in addition to the obvious) abt kanna is that like... yeah little kids have crushes? and if the show wanted to show her classmate having a childhood crush on kanna that would've been cute and fine if the "oh no i'm flustered" moments were like. hugging or sitting next to each other on the couch or moments of physical affection/touch that WEREN'T OBVIOUSLY SEXUALIZED
Yeah it always bothered me that those "oh no, I'm flustered" moments you speak of were always filtered through "I'm flustered cuz I'm horny, this situation makes me horny, I got a boner right now" Like, very few moment in the entire series are not about "I love this person because they exist" and more like "this person is sexually enticing to me, I think they're very sexy, I love them because of it"
Except of course for the two dudes that live together and are implied to be life partners "best friends", cuz... The author is not that much into it compared to lesbians and if they're in the anime at all is because the studio wanted a balance and not because the author particularly cared
It would only be accurate if they were like teens because normally around then is when kids start to feel actually like that due to hormones and would actually get flustered in those situations but they are like 3rd graders
yeah
Imagine caring this much about drawings lol
@@TurtleChad1 I haven't even scrolled for 2 minutes and I managed to find at least 6 replies from you, clearly you do care as well, otherwise you wouldn't be actively looking for people to disagree with just so that you can repeat your opinion over and over again
The fact that you even have an opinion on the matter indicates that you have care at least a little bit and as I just said, you being so vocal about it seems to indicate it might be more than 'a little bit'
So, sir, can YOU imagine caring so much about drawings ?
Also on the topic of La Brava, her design is distinctly different from the design of the actual children in MHA (Eri, Kota, the main cast as shown in their childhood flashbacks etc).
True, but I was still really surprised that she’s actually 21 years old. She looks like she’s only 10!
@@Cheetahgirl_Studios
She looks more like a teenager (kinda like Mineta, who also looks younger due to his height and proportions), which is still young but not as bad as Kanna, Ilulu, or most other lolis, and a lot less fetishized.
@@Cheetahgirl_Studios I thought she was like 16-
Doesn’t matter about age it’s fiction age is just a number if it’s the age of a fictional character
I would’ve confused Mineta as a child before La Brava
If we all can recognize that a genderless robot WALL-E is coded as "male" and EVE is coded "female" then I don't understand why it's so difficult to see that a certain character might be coded as a "child"
they arent coded male and female they are coded as masculine and feminine because gender coding has to do with gender roles and not sex !
The artistic intentions can vary from each person, as well as the interpretations. That's why saying "coded" is stupid.
Wait can WALL-E be coded as a child
@@byrnetdown6076 straight is a gender
@@hiSweetCorn ...No? I can't tell if you are serious or not, but straight is a sexuality.
"She's not 10 she's actually 1000 in dragon years so it's ok-" *beats mercilessly*
You're willing to beat someone up over a drawing.
That alone tells us you're a mentally unstable psychopath.
@@Mecks089you're unwilling to beat up a pedophile, that alone tells us you're a mentally unstable psychopath
*helps*
They are also not real, you are directing your attention away from real pedos and real victims
okay but that’s over 10 right?
what’s the problem
I thought it was the Age of Consent not APPEARANCE of Consent
y’know what the most uncomfortable part is? tv tropes claims that ilulu was (slightly) redesigned for the anime to look *older* than she does in the manga
It's true! The manga is softcore porn, and like all anime porn, features children.
@@RobinTheBot idk where you got the misconception that "all anime porn features children", because that is factually wrong.
@@profezzordarke4362Not all of it is but MOST have some child character hell I even once watch a hentai which had the protag that looked and sounded like a literal CHILD be fucked by GROWN MEN and I had to ask myself wtf I found because I didn't think what I found was gonna be that and it was a regular hentai cite I used which I never stumbled upon that shit
@@fugo. it's the exaggerations that people make that devolve into arguments
@@profezzordarke4362 while yes, not literally all and it is a tiny bit reductive to even exaggerate to that point, THE AMOUNT OF SEXUALISATION OF MINORS IN ANIME AND MANGA IS DISPROPORTIONATELY HIGH
"I hope this isnt your first video of mine.."
*grabs popcorn*
"Oh it is"
**The popcorn lord has been defeated, everyone levels up and acquires 1 pop corn.**
**But above all, you learned the true meaning of friendship, for this victory would be hollow without your men in arms**
Share your popcorn
@@CrazyNinja473 Get your own coward XD
@@hmcloud8487 i cant im busy watching these cute loli characters
Oh hey
Same share the popcorn bro
"You're under arrest"
"No officer you don't understand, she's not a child she's a 1,000 year old dragon"
"Exactly. In no world is that an acceptable age gap, I'm placing her under arrest."
Okay, I'd actually love to watch an anime based around this premise. A romance between a 20-something guy and a 1000-year old loli dragon girl, but it's the dragon who keeps thinking she's "craddle-robbing" and stuff like that.
She's not real and she's a reptilian. Good job. You now revealed the Reptilian conspiracy.
"youre not allowed to be adults"
"You're only 15 son, she's way too old for you."
First funny comment I've seen on this video
Worth mentioning; the artist and creator for dragon maid is exclusively known for doujins that are... incredibly upsetting. Like, everything you worry about in dragon maid is just what they do in all their other work.
Which is perfectly okay. Making fucked up fiction is not illegal nor should it be.
@@olivercharles2930 Who said anything about legal or illegal? Not everything is about what politicians should enshrine into law. You can criticize something without saying it should be illegal.
@@olivercharles2930 there's a stark contrast between something that is pornographic in nature and something that is written to criticize or otherwise send a message. i don't think any fiction should be illegal, but if you're making what is tantamount to real child pornography, which a lot of this is, and it is doing nothing but appealing to the sexuality of the writer and condone this type of relationship/behavior, both in real life and in media, then it isn't the same as writing something that is complex and varied. this is not fucked up for the sake of saying anything other than to make you feel arousal. so please, don't try to argue this. it's not okay, and only muddies the water of discussions on fiction.
That's why he's even more based. Cry and seethe anti.
@@TurtleChad1 do you really want to spend your life in such bitter hatred and denial, to close yourself off and see everyone else around you as mere enemies to combat and debase? it seems miserable. i hope you find inner peace.
I can’t actually believe you had to say “short people exist” as a point in this argument. I mean, I can because you did, but wow.
i think theyre just pointing out the obvious cuz ppl are naïve and ignorant :(
YOU'D BE SURPRISED HOW OFTEN I, A PETITE PERSON, IS MISTAKEN AS A CHILD. And I've lost all the baby fat in my face by now.
@@finngswan3732 I've been carded outside the liquor store just walking up to it and I'm 29. My sister is often mistaken as the daughter of her friends. It's crazy lol.
Um.. that wasn’t an argument. They’re we’re just pointing out obvious fact cuz some humans don’t get it…also my whole family is short and my mom has been mistaken for
A child MULTIPLE times so…
People that hate this video respond we it’s Busty Women are a thing.
You know the “she’s over 1000 years old so she’s clearly an adult” argument kind of makes it worse since that would imply that Kana knows what she’s doing, has a fully matured mind, and is purposely doing lewd things and sexually assaulting a child. Like I really enjoyed the found family dynamic in this show, but they really didn’t need to give the kid a love interest.
On top of that, 1000 years dont always mean they are an adult. Just like how a 7 year old dog does not mean they are a child puppy dog as dogs age differently from humans. So 1000 years for a dragon can still be a child toddler dragon and the show already states that she's a child for a dragon. So lewding her is still lewding a toddler character. I never like the argument of the whole "they are a 1000 years old" when fantasy characters ages can depend on their species. Adult lolis exist and there are adult lolis that look kinda young who are flat bot got lager chests but its important to know if they age like a human or if there are different rules. There is one anime movie where a land of humans stop aging at about 18 years of age and stay looking like teenagers. I think the main character was 15 but stopped the aging process as she got older and continued to look and stay young realistically just like how there are some teenagers who still look 15 at the age of 18. Of course they will still age but genetically they sometimes can look 4 or 5 years younger after they reach a certain age.
I like lolis but I do tend to get kinda wary on what they look like and bif they pass, I try to avoid knowing their age if I see something. But if it is said they are children, yuck.
Bingo.
It is stated that Kanna only sees Riko as a friend. Riko is the one with the crush, and Kanna shows obliviousness to it, meaning there's no mutual interest to have such a thing (You need mutual interest to have any such thing).
for dragon age I think 1000 years old is still young to them .....these mofos literally live for centuries and eons
I’ve never liked that argument either.
Short, young looking adult woman do exist specially in japan where people tend to look younger, so as long as they are shown to be adults and act like it there's not really a problem there. What grosses me out is when the characters are clearly stated to be young children and are depicted doing sexual stuff, like wtf
A Turtle doesn't approve of anime that sexualizes children 👎
You don’t have to act grown up to be grown up, but I still kind of understand.
It actually exists in the west too, but very rarely.
@@lpfan4491 I'm one of them. I've been told I look about 12 even though I'm almost 20
there's a distinct difference between "young-looking adult woman" (as in haru and la brava) and "literally just a character that was made with the body of a young child and is constantly sexualised under the thin veneer of 'he's actually 1,000 years old guys!!'", however.
The height issue really gets me sometimes. I was in middle school with classmates who looked like high schoolers in height and figure and in my senior year of HS i was mistaken as a freshman. I'm as tall as my brother who is in elementary still. I have a baby face that's VERY often called "cute" (and also I was told a few weeks ago by my mother that i look TWELVE). I would like to enjoy adult relationships but personally when I think that someone might, on a first look, think I'm a _child??_ Yeah, no. It's rather complicated which I suppose is why the topic is so controversial.
That's a rough situation. If I could offer any advice I would say as long as you act your age you shouldn't really worry about accidentally dating a pedophile. One of the big things that attract pedophiles is the idea of childlike innocence, if that idea is destroyed they more than likely wont be sexually interested in you. Might have issues on dating apps though.
i have a similar problem. im short and have a baby face, so people often think im much younger than i am. im 22 but sometimes i get mistaken for a highschooler or something. to solve that i just got a tattoo LOL, that might help you. i feel like if someone sees a tattoo, they can instantly tell we're at least adult age idk
Christ wanted little youfh lookers like you and me. So we shall be designed as such.
"I would like to enjoy adult relationships but personally when I think that someone might, on a first look, think I'm a child?? Yeah, no."
This is such an unrealistic scenario.
I think you may spend too much time thinking about optics.
Just enjoy life and don't think about it.
@@user-mn8lz7gf6d It happens far more than you think. Sadly. Not everyone is lucky as you and I are. But 99% of the people on this earth will end up in hell.
When you said “framing that sexualizes her”, I thought like, there would be SOME discretion or implication, but this PURE SEXUALIZATION OF A MINOR, NO ARGUMENTS CAN BE ARGUED.
And yet I've literally had people in this very comment section say that they see _nothing wrong_ with what is shown.
@@blara2401 Oh, it gets better - those l0licon defenders try desperately to play coy and go like ahem:
‘how is this or that anime scene sexualizing children? If you notice that an anime scene is sexualizing kids, isn’t that your mind sexualizing kids, not the scene itself, thereby making you the real p3do?’
If you’re wondering what the problem with that above argument is - It’s literally the braindead ‘noticing racism means you’re the real racist!’ argument, repackaged for l0licon.
The fact that l0licon defenders are literally just using a common defense racists use should reaaaaaallly tell you something about them. ;)
@@peanut4668 I really don't understand that mindset. One of the main jokes of the show is even Tohru lusting after Kobayashi, which isn't wrong in any way mind you, but it's definitely sexual in nature. Then there's Shouta who outright calls Lucoa a succubus, and then...this.
It's a factional medium and fictional laws are not the same on this non fictional earth
@@TinNguyen-rl2xr but you're real. And real you is attracted to something that looks like a child.
People always blame the “character” say the character consented to it in the story… and they never blame the ADULT author who wrote that character. It’s hard to put my frustration into words
Some people are so detracted from reality that they spew the weirdest thoughts, thinking no consequences or judgement will befall them.
And yes, I can determine that liking child-like and infantilized characters is weird behaviour. I have weird likings of my own, but they actually consist of characters who can consent and don't prey on innocence and purity.
yeah
Yeah it's so weird :(
I feel that way about Pyra and Mythra, great characters put in pervy suits for no real reason.
@@inplane9970They're just drawings. Stop coping
Fun fact: Sofia the First is 2.5 heads tall.
Cool
edit: this comment wasn't funny stop liking it
edit 2: Stop
Cool?
cool, but how tall is elena of avalor?
Wut
Thanks is save my life
For Iruru, I definitely agree with how problematic her design and the way she's treated in the show is. But the part of her design that I find problematic is the fact that they keep putting her in her underwear and shit and not the fact that her chest is huge. She's supposed to be 16. I have a really large chest that came in when I was about 13, before any other sort of growth spurt, making me look disproportional and top-heavy. I remember all the strange looks and the disgust from adults, like it was my fault I had boobs. I think normalizing the fact that some kids have curves but they are still CHILDREN and not sexual is important. It just feels icky and dangerous to me to say that children have to look like children otherwise they are sex objects. (not saying that that's what you said. Just wanted to give me thoughts). No matter what a minor looks like, they are still a minor.
Like 90% of anime characters are underage by american standards, it's not changing.
If you keep comparing yourself to anime characters the fault is on you, or more importantly your schizophrenia.
@@Mecks089I’m not sure why you brought schizophrenia into this
@@evanbecraft8201 Because certain delusional people insists on wanting to _"See themselves in a character"._
SHADDUP
thats vile that adults would think to look at you that way. so sorry you had to deal with that man
"I really hope this isn't the first video of mine you're watching-"
*Oop-*
YT's algorithm: *I'm gonna pretend she never said that.*
👀 uuhhhhh I watch her a lot the first video i ever saw is this one
Oof
same
Tbf she doesnt have that much content.
I feel like problems with depicting sexualised children have been an issue in japanese media for ages, my parent once made a good point that the school girl aesthetic is always sexualised while we were watching a japanese movie. While it is wrong, theres not really much westerners like myself can do to stop it.
No matter how you look at we are all ways different from japan, its also crazy that the whole arguement to the reason of this culture is underpopulation issues
Dont forget that schoolgirls are sexualized a lot in the west as well, it is sadly common in both parts of the world e_e
I mean japanese people tend to look more child like. I can't remember the name of the chemical that give people round looks but the japanese are full of it.
By all means go and protest to your heart's content go to Japan and B their little Ally see how many people will be on your side
@@Samm815 I remember the word they use to describe some asian people was neoteny/ neotenous. Don't remember what the chemical was or the reasoning behind it. I think I may have watched what your talking about a year ago.
What disturbs me the most isn't even the depiction of a child's body but the sexualization of a child's mind. Being turned on by a naive, defenseless and easy to manipulate and coerce child that isn't able to consent is simply disgusting. People who are attracted to that don't want consent. They want to fantasize about power and forcing their sick desires onto someone else.
Oh I didn’t think of it that way, now it’s even more disturbing
robophiles: *sweats profusely*
It’s still a drawing no matter the personality...
@@justbored5002 Drawing of what
Yep you hit the nail on the head. So disturbing.
I like how gentle and sweetly you talk about the issue. It's not completely charged and I don't feel overwhelmed when you talk about the issue. It's so nice to just hear you talk because you've got such a soothing voice and I think it helps when explaining issues like these.
Kanna is cute and funny 😭
😭😭😭😭😭😭 @@TurtleChad1
"short women exist" i- I'M FINALLY A REAL HUMAN
(im 19 and 4'9 lmao)
Laughs in 15 and 6’0
@@apocalypticautistic4729 * steals your height *
@@amberquartz9468 thank you so much!
I’m tired of blacking out trying to stand.
@@apocalypticautistic4729 i'm happy it helps the both of us :)
@@apocalypticautistic4729 laughs in 16 and 6’5
the creepy sexually active brunette 3rd grader honestly bugs me more than kana
Yeah.
Who knows the cause? There are unfortunate events in real life that can cause that sort of 3rd grader
@@priestesslucy3299 ok well the cause is someone wrote her that way..
@@RyuKaguya that's not the narrative cause though. There are real girls (usually with unfortunate histories) that are precocious and interested at that age.
@@priestesslucy3299 yeah see that IS the narrative here as im talking about the shows characters and one that annoys me more than the rest..her reasoning as to why the elementary school child is trying to hump the other dragon loli is unimportant. There is no philosophic discussion to be had here, she is creepy and pisses me off end of story.
Ok, i know you mention this on a follow up video, bit i feel it's important to also point out how one of the most popular characters has the "gimmick" of constantly making sexual advancements to a child who seems horrified by it.
I would love nothing more than to have a curvy flirty character but a) she's going after a literal human child and b) insisting so much after getting clear as water rejections is plain old sexual harassment.
Lucoa, a fan favorite of the show lol.
Yeah, Shouta, I'm pretty sure she'll eventually just take him.
They're just drawings bro
@@TurtleChad1animation is an art medium that is often inspired and coded from/by real world things and it can be criticized bro
@@TurtleChad1 It is *material,* material can be *molded* to *convey* a *message.*
*Do you see the problem here?*
@@B_4035mn And the message is for guys to project onto the child because sometimes we just wanna be spoiled in every way, and he rejects her because otherwise this show would become a nakamura regura hentai adaptation.
Seriously, I agree with being uncomfortable when the show seems to wanna make the child attractive, but in this case what's attractive is being in the child's place. Or is that distinction too nuanced for your understanding? I agree that the way Kanna is portrayed is cringeworthy. I don't agree with the same thing about Ilulu but I also see where people are coming from and to each their own. But Shouta's a straight man's fetish too, and it doesn't volve doing anything with him but *being* him. And if that kinda fantasy is not ok, then fucking cancel the entire adult persona fandom for liking being a highschooler with fictional woes rather than crippling real ones because they all wanna be a highschool-going minor. Or cancel the Yakuza series for the existence and prevalance of Patriarch Gondawara as a secondary character. See how sane that looks.
8:00 In art class (we were like 14) I drew a character with thigh-highs (and garterbelt)
and some people were concerned and shocked and some straight-up complained.
Like, I really just liked the look of it and didn't think more to that.
I wasn't aware, that some people fetishized that.
I knew it about leggings and certain socks, but to me thigh-highs covered MORE so I thought it would be less problematic.
Like the character also had shorts AND a skirt, yet people were upset about the garterbelt the most.
(The design was inspired by Alisia Boskonovitch's Tekken 6 outfit to get an idea)
Every time "coding" is said my programers mind interprets it as programing and I hate it.
Lets get meta and say everything is programming ;)
I only have basic knowledge of programming and this is annoying
Same it losses me off a lil xd
As someone learning to code, I too hate programing lmao.
I think that Beatrice from re:zero is a good "400 year old loli" . She acts her age (400 years old) and has incredible knowledge. She is not sexualized and neither is her design though she does have very childlike proportions and a childlike voice.
Generally, I think re:zero deals well with child looking characters who are actually very old acting their age.
Yep, it's not about the proportions or even the 'development' of the chest. It's about the age of the brain and having enough life experience and brain development to consent. The biggest issue is when loli-appearing characters are shown going to fucking ELEMENTARY SCHOOL
Ryuzu Mayer also looks like a child but its not sexualized and she speaks like grandma
I could say the same about Ayame from Kai Byoui Ramune. She is physically 9 years old, but she remembers her past life, which gives her 100 years of experience. She was never sexualized by the show, in fact, there was an episode where Ayame beat up two pedophiles. She acts her age, using her wisdom in difficult situations, and yet, sometimes she lets herself be a kid and have fun.
Man I love her sm, very well-written character
To all who thinks ReZero is another Isekai bullshit with the author’s fetish roaming everywhere in the story, you should definitely give it a try.
@@TrueWomenEnjoyer but its too cringe to watch imho
It is said in the show kanna is a child, so no one can say that she is not a child
Actually she says she looks like a child
@@BurningRubber454 Point still stands buddy. Having a strong sexual attraction towards a character who is specifically designed to both look and behave like a child irrespective of canonical age is still sickening. She quite literally attends a pre-school. You're disgusting
@@craftgames8970 clearly like her you clearly never watch the series and got triggered by the character design alone
@@BurningRubber454 Ok then. Has anything I've said been incorrect? She look like a child, yes? She acts and sounds like a child, yes? She attends a pre school within the series, yes? She is egregiously and commonly sexualised, yes? Please tell me, has ANYTHING I've said so far been wrong?
@@BurningRubber454 yeah. Didn’t think so
This was a really good evaluation of the show and really illustrated coding in an excellent way. Tasteful. World needs more people who can approach topics like this from the basis of education. Great Job.
There's an alternate universe where Kobayashi was the best anime ever, just a beautiful and innocent show about a dragon's relationship with her wife and adoptive daughter. One where the kid characters are normal and Iruru doesn't exist at all. One where the mangaka isn't a pedophile. That's the most tragic part of this show to me
Moderately high-grade Copium indeed.
UOOOOOOOOOOH! CUNNYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY! 😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭
@@yoman8027 bro 💀
The mangaka was a pedophile? That explains so much.
@@cianbuckley7120 He isn't. He's just a hentai artist with a penchant for oneesan X shota.
I remember when I just got into anime and started binging a bunch of shows based on their score from MAL, and when I stumbled into dragon maid I initially really enjoyed it but ended up dropping it after the whole "kanna scenes" started becoming more frequent because it made me extremely uncomfortable.
Little did I know that this "1000 year old loli" trope was super common in anime, and I eventually got used to it, this video is a harsh reminder of why I thought it was uncomfortable in the first place, and now I feel kinda disappointed in myself.
what's worse, is that there are a lot of people who are willing to outright defend this trope publicly...
Yes, yes, and then you vilify those people, just like a cult.
Can't believe Sleepy Crest was right about people like you.
@@Mecks089 I really like how the main arguments against people complaining about underaged character coding are about so many things except actually addressing the main issue of oversexualization of minors...
Of course I'm vilifying them... Cause they are LITERALLY defending something that's illegal in many countries...
@@Someone-wr4ms But not illegal in Japan, fuck the other countries.
@@Someone-wr4ms but not in Japan I mean why not just don't watch those anime if enough people don't then crunchyroll or funiamation won't license
@@Someone-wr4ms since you seem to want someone to argue against your point let me state my perspective. Let's start with the fact that the creators obviously always want their work to do well. Part of this is knowing your audience and appealing to them. If the audience is mainly made up of male teens and young adults who want to see sexualized female characters then can you really blame the creators for delivering? Whether for having a varied roster of characters or to appeal to a specific demographic, sexualized characters with childlike properties are occasionally made. Personally, I don't have issues with these sorts of characters due to them often having physical properties that distinguish them from actual kids as well as being mentally mature. Kanna, for one, has tree trunks for thighs, double the widths of that of the children in the show, making a clear distinction between her and an actual human child. As for mental maturity, I can't speak for Kanna as I've yet to watch season 2 and watched season 1 a long time ago but in most cases, these sorts of characters are hundreds if not thousands of years old for a reason. The whole point of intimate sexual actions with children being illegal is due to them lacking the mental capacity to properly think for themselves and make the correct life decisions. But this is no longer the case if the character is already mentally mature and has vast life experience. Denying them sexual maturity would be denying midgets sexual maturity. And all because you think they look like children, which is absurd. It's not about what an individual looks like but about if they can make rational and educated decisions. I personally don't feel it's that big of a deal since it doesn't hurt anybody what creative liberties the creators take. It's not offending anyone nor is it inciting anything within anyone. It seems to me like people just like to bring it up as a shallow attempt to feel morally superior to others.
I swear, had the genders between Lucoa and Shouta been swapped, people would question it. Theres this weird double standard where if a guy gets sexually harrassed or in awkward positions(case in point, Shouta), its passed off for laughs, but if the genders were swapped, where its the girl (say, in this example, loli x old man), it would be creepy.
Fun fact, Noralities is an actual shotacon
@@Singe41 wait what-
@@Singe41 wait wait
@@Singe41 explain (I literally just subbed because this was recommended to me and I agree with the points being made.. I am confusion.)
@@InvaderBB Im guessing theyre referring to her making a video liking Toilet Bound Hanako, and the main cast are shota (child like characters)
Tho, personally, I havent watched the show and the video, so I cant speak on it much on it. I suggest watching the video and researching the anime/manga before making a conclusion (as there are people who argue in bad faith)
"well you see, even though she looks, sounds, and acts like a child, she is actually a 10000 year old demon that can consent" - 🤓
""well you see, even though she looks, sounds, and acts like a child, she is actually a 10000 year old demon that can consent" - 🤓" 🤡🤓🤡🤓🤡🤓
I never even realised Kanna was sexualised or the thigh highs.
I just thought the other elementary student was really weird.
real fans aways Say to not lewd the Dragon Loli, but they are saying to not make Hentais of it, this is Ecchi, and is so Little to majority, they don't care or didn't even notice it was intentional, they seen fine even if they show the girl blushing with Kanna's movements. the only one's that notice it, are those that didn't liked.
I didn't even realize that kanna was sexualized too. I just thought that saikawa liked her
Yeah never reallly figured there was sexualization i mean shes a dragon and really they act kind of weird.
I thought they were stockings? I was more putt off by her weird thunder thighs
@@squashedshibber2684 baby fat can linger just about anywhere
Honestly, I don't know why anyone is surprised. The series literally has a male child in it named Shouta who gets flustered by a curvy woman. Naming him "shota" is so on the nose, it hurts.
Isn't shota an actual japanese name tho? (Looks at Aizawa)
@@dollyinterrupted it is! Shōta (or Shouta) is a boy's name. its just unfortunate that it has this kind of connotation if one is unaware that its a genuine name. i dont know a lot of jpn yet, though im slowly studying it, but 'shota' as in 'shotacon' means 'young boy', where as Shōta/Shouta is dependent on which characters are used to write it. Aizawa's first name is written kinda weirdly and iirc is a bit of word play for his quirk/hero name
Is shota really not that well known tho? I thought almost everybody in the anime community knows that shota is the opposite of loli. Probably because I read bl mangas, so I encounter some shotacon mangas sometimes.
@@kemma_ i dont actually know how well known lolisho is, mostly cause i try to avoid it the best i can, but almost everyone ive met didnt know that Shōta is a given name, they just knew about the similar sounding 'shota as in shotacon' from the trope. it makes me kinda sad for all the irl people out there actually named Shōta :/
@@cervidae3291 It's the same thing - just like how Loli comes from Lolita complex, shota comes from Shoutarou complex
"I hope this isn't your first video of mine"
Me who only got recommend this channel: 👁️👄👁️
how it feels to relate
Same
Same
Same
This is a very good essay, but I do have one objection:
Where you make the argument that maybe the artist was trying to get away with depicting something that might be immoral or illegal (14:35)... I'm going to have to point you back at your own clip compilation of Kanna being sexualized. She's designed as being one step above an actual toddler and they are still doing all of that.
The specific reason that Ilulu is designed how she is, isn't so the author can get away with things. It's so the author has the excuse to do "teen romance" tropes.
What we have in "dragon maid" is an open and blatant collage of fetishes. This is the intended messaging. It's softcore porn. You have the maid-master dynamic, the mortal and the godlike being, the older woman/shota dynamic (his name is literally shouta!) and in Ilulu, we have a vaguely young teenagerish girl who is naive and has a massive rack forever flustering her older but still teenaged male coworker.
And there is no denying that Kanna is meant to be the loli in the room, and frankly, given that it's JAPAN, you should be thankful that the author's chosen love interest for Kanna is technically age appropriate, though wildly sexually inappropriate (there is a big cultural conversation to be had about how such a young girl got so godsdamned horny, likely from the easy unfiltered access to porn).
Literally every dragon character represents SOME sort of fetish, regardless of its appropriateness.
And frankly it's a little weird that you spend such a long time complaining about Kanna and just mostly ignore what's happening to Shouta (who is convinced he's being haunted by a succubus).
Probably didn't mention Shouta bc his situation is a little less defendable. I don't hear ANYONE defending that the same way they do with Kanna and Ilulu, because Shouta is an actual human child, and Lucoa is a whole ass adult (in both species and human standards). The most I'd ever see is some flavor of the whole "you think drawings should have human rights" strawman stuff.
At least with Kanna and Ilulu there's still that sense of "plausible" deniability (something something 1000 year old dragon, something something short =/= child, etc.)
Shouta isn’t coded as a child (he is a child canonically) so there’s no debate in his case. She’s making a video about child
Coding to get past criticism specifically.
Baby yoda is the perfect example to explain coding and how in-universe aging is not an excuse.
I mean to be fair, from what little I know of the show; Grogu both looks and acts like an infant. Kana also looks and acts the equivalent of his age. But your statement doesn't line up 1:1 for character who either look older and act younger (only one that comes to mind is Casca who probably could be better described as acting as an adult with severe developmental difficulties), or half the stuff where they have a random young looking (like creepily young) looking girl who acts older. Fire Emblem has one or 2 I think (I believe TvTropes used one of them on a page about this) or like a quarter of elf characters.
Not to say your take is bad or wrong, just that it best applies to the series used as an example in the series.
I use Boss Baby as an example. He has the intelligence of an adult and sounds like Alec Baldwin, but he's still physically a baby.
@@malcire it's more of a hyper intelligent baby hes scheming the entire time but also cant help but enjoy playing peekaboo and eating with his hands like a baby
Mother's Basement in his "the worst Isekai anime" says something that I completely agree with. while people like me who are fine lolis and shotas have no problem with how they are shown, there are still people who are uncomfortable with their depiction, which is where "their age is no shorter than 3 digits" comes into play. while it doesn't bother me so the numbers are meaningless, adding an unrealistically long age helps people who are uncomfortable with the character turn a blind eye and keep watching the show.
There's also Kess and Neelix from Star Trek Voyager for the opposite end of the "in-universe age isn't an excuse": Kess is a young adult at only... four years old? Her species has an *extremely* rapid growth cycle and reaches full, psychologically and emotionally mature adulthood very, very quickly. Dog years, give or take.
Ultimately there are other factors that need to be taken into account. Is the character super naive, or extremely competent? Are they easily overwhelmed or do they have the might of ten gods backing their every move?
An actual "lolibaba" would have behavioral tendencies more befitting an adult, even if they have childish moments. Alka from Last Dungeon Boonies is *very* "large and in charge" and behaviorally gives more cougar vibes than anything despite having a loli-type appearance. She literally gets called "lolibaba" in the show by her own student. A LOT. I'm not here to discuss how problematic her behavior is or isn't - I'm providing an example of a 3-digit-age loli who actually comes across as 3-digit-aged and could be dismissed as "actually an adult in a tiny body".
In fact, there's a cyclical murder mystery visual novel and anime that features a character who seems like a normal child but ends up revealed to be, in practice, very old and wise. No fanservice there that I know of, so have fun. No, I'm not telling you shit: that would be spoilers. >:3c
In short: you can't say "Kanna's actually old so it's fine" because the way she's WRITTEN runs 100% counter to that.
I love dragon maid but I can’t stand Lucoa’s relationship to Shota along with most of Riko’s relationship to Kanna. As someone who watches a ton of anime, although I’ve grown kinda numb to these sorts of things as they happen frequently, I still hate that they still pop up and probably won’t go away anytime soon.
it doesn't bother me, but they sure are a distraction, on "reicanated as a Slime" they always focus on Shion's boobs.
I like anime boobs, but at that moment i was trying to pay attention to the plot
@@lucasyoshikawa5933 it's the same reason i dropped Fire Force. I'm all for fanservice but there's time and place for it. Right after the girl being sexualized got her teeth beaten in and during a major fight is not one of those right times.
A Turtle doesn't approve of anime fanservice 👎
oh boy then your going to hate the manga spin off where Shota and Lucoa just straight up have sex
I really enjoyed Dragon Maid until the Shota/Kanna stuff. That stuff really read as creepy to me really from the get go
I'm glad you brought up the example of bnha's La Brava!
When I first saw her, I was a bit weirded out as I thought her character was child-coded but made 22-24 to excuse her relationship with a 35 y/o (that incidentally is coded to look older than that), but when I saw what her quirk was it kind of clicked
I don't think she was child-coded perse (which you addressed with her being curvy and being explicitly referred to as an adult, etc.), but rather I think her design was perhaps meant to emulate that of a cherub/love angel? Since her quirk revolves around love and giving power to those she loves, I assume that's why she has the smaller-than-normal proportions-- to further liken her to a cherub. To me it was only driven home when we got to see her as an actual teen (in which she didnt have dark circles and had shorter hair), and how it was brought up that her proportions made it hard for her to be taken seriously as her actual age
I think these were things that the dragon maid characters lack and why its harder to believe they're "adults" or mature given their age DESPITE their design
I could be wrong here but I thought it would be interesting to bring up as further consideration to why a character like La Brava =/= Ilulu or Kanna
But illulu is also curvy and shes reffered to as an adult by characters in the show like they treat her diffrently than kanna
@StrangerDanger i did watch the video,but i also watched the newest episode of koboyashis dragon maid the 16 part is a cover up her age is actually tohrus as for the anatomy and behavoir i heavilly dissagree with that as for me shes more mature than kanna and is treated as an adult by other characters
@StrangerDanger like i said i watched the episode where she said she was 16, it was when she started working at Takes shop,she said she was 16 and then in her head said "at leasts that i was told to say" it was season 2 ep 5 or 6.now your other comment,no i dont go and say every short person is an adult its obvious that kanna is a child i just dont agree that illulu is ,even though she immature she still has more life experince than kanna and while i agree that her face may be young-looking her body tells a diffrent story.if i were to make illulu character i would have made her taller and more like lucoa but make her a little unstable due to her past,but thats just my preffrences.to shes just like uzaki,like i like the big baabs but i dont like the personality that why in both shows i preffer lucoa or tsuki uzaki
Coded to look like a cherub? You mean the angel that is explicitly coded as a child?
Yea nah just because it's one step further removed doesn't make it any better.
La Brava was the moment I realised the p3d0s in the audience weren't an accident, the anime is explicitly catering to them. Also the exact moment and reason I gave up on that anime.
Why are fictional characters real whenever sex is involved but not when violence is involved?
I'm aware this might be a rhetorical question, but it's actually a really interesting one so I'm taking a shot at answering it. Whether or not you read this it was definitely an enjoyable thought exercise to consider why people react in this way, so thank you
TL;DR I imagine it isn't as much the characters themselves as it is how the creator presents the content/surrounding context and framing.
In fiction, violence is usually framed within a narrative as either unnecessary (ex the murder of Batman's parents) or justified (ex Batman beating up criminals). Typically, the villains exercise unnecessary violence while the heroes exercise justified violence. Morally ambiguous characters are a good example of framing- a character might have a noble goal that they pursue using unnecessary violence, or a very selfish goal that causes them to commit justified violence. The message is usually clear: "these actions are bad, but their goal is good" or vice versa.
As far as I'm aware, most of the people upset about, say, loli or shota, don't have issues with sex existing in media (if they do... that is an entirely separate discussion). I'd go so far as to say their problem isn't even pedophilic topics arising in media (again, another conversation if so)- it's how the creator approaches the topic. Using another manga to contrast Dragon Maid, Guts from Berserk is preyed on as a kid. The narrative makes it very clear that this is a tragedy. Lucoa coming onto Shouta isn't an inherently bad plot point, I think people take issue with how the narrative treats that as funny/quirky/hot.
Framing is often a look into the author's own perspective, given how meta it is. EVEN IF a writer does not personally hold a certain set of values, if their narrative framing conveys those values, the audience will likely perceive the writer as believing them regardless. If Chuck Palahniuk framed Tyler Durden's actions in Fight Club as ethically justified, public response to the work might be different. The point is no longer "this is a satire of excessive focus on violence in our society", it is instead "terrorism and brutality are good". So, when you apply that concept to works where the sexualization of child characters is portrayed in a positive light, the author appears to support that topic- making it more "real".
Now there are people who say that they support loli or shota without supporting sexualization of real children. That's a whole other can of worms, though, and this is long enough as it is.
@@apexsigmagrindsetHxH fan detected opinion rejected
@@CBman11037 I mean, that's fair. I was mostly analyzing the logic of the people the original commenter was talking about- because the sentiment does seem a bit hypocritical. Not necessarily my own perspective- but given my status as a HxH fan I know better than to open my whore mouth about such things. We must be seen and not heard. Have a nice day.
Shh, don't ask questions.
That is a lot of excuses for your blatant double standard. @@apexsigmagrindset
disney sort of age-codes their protagonists too. I say sort of because elsa and anna are definitely adults (or near), but their face proportions are very childlike. same with moana. this is part of why i found raya sooooo refreshing because she actually looks like an adult in comparison to elsa. obviously this is not for the purpose of sexualizing, probably to be more attractive to children
I believe Elsa is 23-5 by the end of the second movie and Anna I think is 21 because that's the age when a queen comes into her reign
I'm not sure if I agree with the idea that they are age coded though- idk, they've always looked and felt like young adults but that could just because I think of the movies
You try to make something for everyone in a character design, and quite often you end up making something that has no real-life equivalent and feels alien if you look at it too closely.
Moana is like 15-16 years old, she is a child. Even her voice actress at the time was at that age.
IMO Elsa doesn't look that young. With her long neck and the long body I had guessed her 20 from the beginning.
Dunno about her face, but it becomes notable in context, her face looks just like other adults, like her mother and villagers and different to kids faces.
They also feed us secret anti-mom propaganda by killing all the moms off-screen before the start of each film.
i think what you said near the end about how the story is so good you're willing to sit through the uncomfortable parts to watch the found family and queer romance parts resonates with me a whole lot. i like dragon maid for those aspects and im a sucker for wild character designs like tohru. i still think kanna is cute, i just wish her skirt was longer and wore tights instead of thigh highs
15:47 "People can watch media that is problematic critically and just because they watched it or liked some aspects of it does not inherently make them problematic in the same way..."
Dam right!
Yet the author 'simps' for a 13 yo boy in another anime
@@elgatochurro the boy isn't sexualized in anyway In that show and simping just means throwing money or giving attention too someone who wont give it back it's not inherently sexual so your "point" doesn't make any sense.
@@jadelmatthews the damn first photo on the wiki representing the character is sexual in nature...
You are filled with double standards
That part was definitely approved by a turtle
THANK YOUU. You this topic was handled this topic with such fluidity and grace. It’s a messy topic it’s a gross one at times. I have short friends many of them one of my close friends is a teenager and shes below my chest and I’m only 5’3. I stopped watching dragon maid before the wired child stuff because I forgot abt it and my brother was a toy more into it then me and he saw the wired mess and left. It sucks becsuse it’s got good things going on. But the wired news of yk that.. is just so gross and off putting mostly as a girl who’s been sexulized far before I became a woman or womanly in shape at least. Things like this just really take the enjoyment and magic out of anime in general because it’s not just this one animals and the entire community in general is riddle with this kinda crap that makes a fool of the really amazing things anime has to offer.
“I hope this isn’t the first video you’re seeing of me”
IVE BEEN CALLED OUT
same
Got fucked by the algorithm but in a different way than usual.
So have I
Same
Nice Basil
A friend got me into dragon maid for Lucoa because he knows I’d like her. But the design choice for Kanna and her relationship with Saikawa really put me off. Still love the anime, I just like to look past, all the, other things. The relationship between Kobayashi and Tohru is the best part of the show
ah yes finally someone else who appreciates lucoa
Faf and the otaku is also top tier either bromance or m/m. I more lean on just two bros being best bros but that’s just me.
Im pretty sure you are not suppose to like everyone and more so there is a character for everyone, what that says about kanna is left to those that like her,
people act like if they dont like something then something is wrong with the media when no you arent supposed to like everything, there are characters in shows i cant stand but love the shows regardless because the stories and characters are great
Yeah the Loli parts are fucked when Kanna has million years old
People say that it's ok for kanna to be sexualised because she is like 1000 years old but like, most of those weird scenes involve Saikawa who is a literal child
"I hope this isn't your first video of mine..."
UA-cam algorithm: Today we shall promote!
XD
Yea.... this is my first time seeing her too lmao
The Anime Community gets worse and worse.
Stuff has just leveled up with a certain scandal i dont want
to mention by Name.
This Video talks about just one of the many, many, many issues...
It has become so easy to explain-away that Sex between
Children or variations of that is ok cause 'Well, in truth, theyre
actually much older, duh'. This is not not-objectively bad,
but objectively bad.
And in some Anime/Manga you can really tell
how totally LAZILY it is done.
Its obvious for any idiot that its 'just an EXCUSE'.
More and more is normalized. More and more.
Sex Sells and so many other problems are growing; but i cant
stress enough that this again is just an 'Example'.
"it's just a drawing" jail is just a room
And anime is just a cartoon thats NOT real life. This you -> 🤡?
@@meme_lover.69 go cuddle ur Hu Tao pillow bro
@@FlameSlayer1901already doing it but for you please stay away from real children
@@8_8787so… I can’t condemn my classmates for drawing the H man’s symbol in class, mocking the religion the N@zis stole it from by sticking all sorts of KKKK symbolism all over it, and white-cone-hats committing war crimes and hate crimes simultaneously?
Also, to clarify, KKKK is basically “KKK: The Sequel: H Man edition”, sadly, yes, it exists, there’s FIVE different KKK resurgence variants right now. Specifically the USA, maybe there’s more overseas, haven’t found more data yet.
It’s just a drawing till I draw a picture of their address)I’m joking I’d never dox anyone even if they are a pdf file bc doxxing is bad)
Me a short dude 5'4"
Hearing: tall and short people can be together
My heart: thank you
Short squad hype!
we stan a short king
you dont have to hide your views behind a meme, just say it.
I'm 5'5. >.>
@Grimmm stfu
"one way of determining age is by how many heads tall they are"
Jimmy Neutron characters: interesting
Thats about the generic anime art style
Doing it by heads doesn’t work for a show with heads double the size. I don’t know what she was thinking with that
@@mr.selyumor5402 ^^
@@mr.selyumor5402 shes only referring to proportions in anime not proportions in cartoons where everything is exaggerated by like a 1000%
@@aquemini722 are you trying to say to me that anime does not super exaggerate proportions. Dragon Maid being the subject we’re discussing.
10:23
A adult sized child like that is absolutely terrifying. That's the stuff of nightmares.
gives me aot vibes
that was my immediate reaction lmao
That also terrified a turtle
spirited away
Anyone remember that episode of Rugrats about Angelica's younger brother?
Shota lovers (specifically those who draw MHA characters in lewd scenes… *cough* Noralities *cough*) are, indeed, the funniest hypocrites
One big problem with discussing lolis is that there is the category where they are just short girls and the category where they are basically children that get discussed as if they are the same group when one is normal while the other is creepy and people act as if they are both the same group without ever differentiating
That's because they're the same thing in anime, because anime isn't real, and those girls have no "age" in a true sense, that's a concept that only exists for living human beings.
@@joshs7160 Yeah most lolis still look like 6 year olds and behave as if they were. They may not have a real age like you say but in this case kanna is sexualized while being portrayed to us "human living things" as a kindergardener, and that's where the problem is
@@fergi5068 lolis look 12 yo on average, so twice what you said, and they definitively don't act like kids
does kids brutally murder peoples? I don't think so, now that's 99% of the lolis in action anime out
@@typeouetco1626 still a loli, cause of the child like sexualization. also 99% is still not all
@@sp4c1ng_0ut8 I'm fine with outing 1% of the lolis, what's left is usually bad anyway like chloe von eizbern from fate kaleid so you can just ignore them
I also hate how pedophilia is used as a joke in this series. Biggest thing is with lucoa quite literally grooming an elementary schooler and its portrayed as "Cute" and "Funny".
When was this
@@francisconavarrete3031 Her entire relationship with Shota…
@@skibopmdada1152 where did she groom him ?
@@francisconavarrete3031 the… entire show?
@@skibopmdada1152 no she didn't ,she didn't manipulate him or try to sexualize him or say that they're in a relationship
Fun fact: One of my OCs was actually inspired by these animes with characters who the writers claim to be older than they look and/or act (like the millenium-old dragon lolis, along with characters like Uzaki-chan who are canonically college-age, but looks and arguably acts like a young teenager)
And come to think of it, the concept I went for is very similar to La Brava from MHA, as was talked about in the video; She's an adult woman who just so happens to be short.
The OC's name is Carla, she's 24 years old, but stopped growing at the age of 6, so she stands at a height of just over 3 feet.
The only thing she hates more than reloading in a First-person shooter is being called a child.
Oh! And one note about proportions, in the comic The Game Couch, where Carla is from, everyone’s head is roughly the same size (~1 foot), and "how many heads tall" is merely a measure of the character’s height, in which case Carla is just over 3 heads tall, with most other characters being in the 5-6 head range.
the concept of "1000 year old dragon appearing as a 10 year old" can actually be interesting and cool when it's not sexualized, which is basically almost never
@@duckified.
I should do that.
I should have an OC who's a millenium-old dragon who takes the form of a 10-year-old girl, and NOT sexualize her.
I have the sudden urge to make fun of her. As a joke btw.
Dragon Maid is one of my favorite shows, but I'd never blame someone for dropping it or criticizing it for its problematic parts. If you liked the good parts of it but couldn't stomach the bad, I highly recommend checking out the fanfic scene for it because you are NOT alone.
I still think it’s one of the most wholesome anime out there. That said, I totally agree with you on it being a bit problematic in places.
@@d4peters86 WHAT?! How is some lewd sexual anime wholesome?!
@@rodrigomaximilianomarquezm5430 because the parts not focused on the sexual Parts depicts a very sweet queer relationship between the two main characters and is genuinely often wholesome although I definitely agree it’s hard to call the show overall wholesome due to the horrible subtext/loli content
@@the_pixel_possum Translation: It's hard to call it wholesome because I have been told to be offended by it and thus it it is mandatory that I be offended by it
@@ootdega ...T-told?
If multiple people individually analyse and come to a conclusion then...y'know what, I'm not even gonna bother since apparently if you don't personally have a problem with something then nobody ever should.
The biggest problem i have with the character designs is how they try to push sexualized designs as simply "cute" or "moe" without recognizing a difference between them. I probably didnt word this well, but i hope its understandable? Either way, its nice to hear someone talk about it in a non twitter baby rage type of way, aka using facts and logic.
I think I get it. It's as if there’s an overlap between cute and sexy, even though (for me, atleast) they're really not all that close to each other.
@@kageakiminato8536 i dont know, she seems pretty reasonable. But i also dont want the anime to be modified cause i like it the way it is
Yeah I get what you mean. As a girl I took my time to get used to all the weird design choices, behaviours, philosophies and fanservice in anime. I mean, I can enjoy anime despite this, but it kind of has influenced me to disregard any of it in a sexual way. Like: "Okay, I'm not interested in Lolis in any sexual way, but let's try to embrace the cute". I'm now starting to think that that's an issue though, seeing how many people feriously defend bizarre sexual portrayals even though they personally have nothing to gain from them.
Nor: She still a Child to her Species.
Me: Thank You !👏👏👏
That argument is itself invalid. We're attributing human morals and laws to an entirely different magical species.
That's is a stupid argument since 1 the writers of the show are human not dragon and 2 they clearly depict the dragon of the show with human like trait of character and personality, like the whole found family thing...
Shes not a gd species. Its a pictures, intentionally drawn in the appearance of a child, intentionally drawn doing lewd things.
@@Chipperbane Dragons are comparable enough in this setting to humans to be able to have romantic and sexual relationships. Having standards for what is and isn't manipulative emotionally and physically in those relationships is an essential concept. Pretending the dragons are not a type of people that can do this is unreasonable.
@@Chipperbane No, it isn't. The argument is that she's depicted as a child, and it's said in the context of the show.
Reminder to everyone that the person who made this video got exposed for being a shotacon
wait fr???????
@@carbonn5998 yeah I don’t remember the exact detail cause this was over a year ago but im pretty sure called hanako-kun sexy and drew suggestive bakudeku content and stuff idk if there was more but there was weird stuff on their tumblr I don’t think they ever addressed it they just kinda disappeared
@@MO0NBEAM that's crazy bruh
🤯🤯🤯
Was gonna watch the video but glad I didn't
you saved me time thx homie 🤝🙏
I SHOULD NOT HAVE GOOGLED THAT GODDAMN
@@MO0NBEAM Maybe they got a redemption arc then ?
Well there was a reason why "Ravioli, ravioli, Don't lewd the Dragon Loli" was a popular meme
Maybe it’s because the character wasn’t sexualized to begin with like the video creator says, and it was fans talking to other fans?
@@diamondminer5459 COPE
@@diamondminer5459 did we not watch the same scenes in this video? I wouldn't be surprised if you didn't watch the vid.
And now, we don’t lewd the platelet lolis.
*Seriously, don’t.*
@@Model_BT-7274 I always watch before commenting. It’s common sense!
Anyway, I have a brain that works differently than most people, and tend to see motion in one continuous blur. I also just disagree that some of the scenes were framed sexually. Though I do think the “humorous exaggeration of a childhood crush” running gag with the brunette went too far sometimes, but nothing flatly immoral.
I am so happy you went into detail about the artistic design of adults vs children. This is an interesting discussion that is never talked about outside of art classes.
Noralities: "I really hope this isn't the first video you are seeing of mine..."
The Algorythim: "You have no say in decision"
wait
baby yoda is 50 YEARS OLD
When the anime has a little boy character literally named "Shota" I think we have what we call an *F B I OPEN UP* moment
Interestingly enough, shouta/shota is a pretty common name in Japan
Actually, "shotacon" is named after a character named Shotaro (Shotaro Kaneda from Tetsujin 28, THE Giant Robot manga), it's an abbreviature of "Shotaro Complex".
@@-ruubi-7270 Yeah but its weird that they made him look like a "shota" and put him in "shotacon" situations. It was definitely intentional.
@@TamTam-rq4nc I can attest, calling a young male character in shotacon situations "shota" is like a running joke in japan. But obviously all of it is fine because they are fictional characters
@@pangean2986 i know its supposed to be a joke, but its also normalizing that type of behavior. I personally don't think we should joke about adult women acting predatory towards children, even if they are fictional. It makes it seem like that type of behavior isn't a big deal. Idk, I just think its weird 🤠
Holy crap someone actually brought up Shota. Litterally the embodiment of Shotacon.
This person is a "simp" for Hanako, the physically 13 year old boy. They are hypocritical.
@kuromimin Problem is the only "Sexualized character" is Lucoa, who already has a body much bigger in height and chest size than the average adult Japanese woman. But of course, people who don't watch the show and simply assume wouldn't know for themselves would they.
@@Torinari A Turtle doesn't approve of your statement
@@TurtleChad1 ? My statement was literally that the only sexualized character in the show is "coded" as you guys say to be an adult woman, and that any other sense of sexualization comes from immature people thinking anyone touching anyone is sexual.
@@Torinari so they aren't allowed to like well written or cool child characters? K
I really love Dragon maid, but the way they portray minors is insanely creepy.
Yeah why cant it stay wholesome
EXACTLY. 😐
Yeah exactly
the first time I watched it I was a minor myself and I remember feeling a bit uncomfortable but ultimately ignoring it because I loved the wholesome moments of the show. Now I can see these things shouldn’t be overlooked as easily
Its just sent a really uncomfy feeling
Yeah, if it wasn't so creepy with the kids, I'd love to recommend the show, because it's positives are great BUT...
This is actually the first video of yours that I've seen - I asked my BF to explain why he was concerned with this anime, and he linked me this. I think you did such a fantastic job with this.
I'm glad to see a nuanced take that actually notes the difference between small women and children instead of acting like every single short character is automatically child coded. Though I acknowledge that that's a rough line to draw in anime given that Japan like infantilizing it's women.
@@The_WIll_OF_D99 All words are made up dude. Hate to burst your bubble.
@@woot12598 false. Most words develop out of a need to express something. This sense of the word 'coding' exists because some Marxists sought another way to gaslight neurofunctional people so as to bully them into compliance. Similar to what was done in the case of "racism", "bigotry" and "dogwhistle", this word follows the typical commie soulless and uncreative pattern of taking something that already exists, and twisting it to your purposes.
@@johnnyveng4014 Dunno man, sounds like an overly sensitive and pedantic way to say "All words are made up dude. Hate to burst your bubble."
@@johnnyveng4014 Also, slightly related, my dog is barking now.
Like, a lot.
So thanks for that.
@@woot12598 thanks for the explanation.
_Intended intellectual takeaway:_ sexualized child coding is bad
_what I actually learned:_ *7 foot baby monster is coming for me*
RE8 flashbacks.
This is so fucking funny and I don’t know why
LOL Anime as a whole is child coded
Big Eyes
Big Heads
Their Body Doesn't Matter
JK
Titan ruuuuuuun!!!
@@Punishthefalse you beat me to the punch on this joke, well done lol
Why does no one point out the fact that saying a character is 1000 years old means absolutely nothing. We would have to be told what their species’ full lifespan is to estimate how mature they are for their species. 1000 years old would still be messed up if they’re expected to live 10,000 years
Assuming you're not trolling, development doesn't have to scale with life span . Could be a species that matures at the same rate we do but maintains mid 30is health and appearance for a 1000yrs.
The 1000yr old dragon loli argument is dumb because the character is clearly portrayed as a child in looks and behavior.
>"She's a hundred years old"
>"Trust me bro, she's legal."
Development doesn't have to scale with lifespan. There are animals that know how to walk and even hunt straight out of the womb. There is a type of worm that is sexually mature the minute they are born!
@@xpluto13x But more often than not is the statement 'Development scales with lifespan
true'? Because if that wasent the case majority of animals would be able to reproduce at ages much older
@@usmanyounas5181 I don't know if it's the same for every species, but considering that it doesn't always scale, it doesn't have to scale in fictional species either
rewatching this videdo made me remember all the needless harassment you got from this video when it first came out.. i really hope youre doing better!
• It was proven she was a hypocrite, so her videos on this topic were bullshit.
• She has uploaded in over a year, even her patreon is dead.
Your hypocrite feminist is gone.
It's kind of ridiculous when you consider the people who harrassed her are people who generally claim to believe that you shouldn't villainize people because of their feelings about fictional content. Like, either stand by that and engage in respectful debate at most or don't cherry-pick when you decide to be respectful.
Personally, I don't think Kobayashi is meant to be attractive to pedophiles, and I very much enjoy the show, but I'm still very uncomfortable with some moments and 100% why that makes people drop it or even find it 'suspicious' for lack of a better word.
8:03
Her: "Thigh-highs are related to sexual clothes"
*Me, who wears thigh-highs since ever and thinks this is a cute type of sock:* 👁👄👁
I mean.... they're not always, and context does matter, but the way theyre used on kanna (was that her name?) is definitely supposed to evoke a sense of eroticism... which is freakin weird to say the least
@@s2sHoXXs2 it didn't for me tho...
@@s2sHoXXs2 pornography and eroticism are not the same thing, though.
Edit: Kanna's depiction is pornography, Kobayashi and Thor's relationship is eroticism.
She's just jealous that you look better in them than she does and calls whoever wears them a whore
I think it's because historically they'd be close to stockings, which you'd clip onto your girdle and people would only see the top of your sticking if you were going to fun town. Think of pinup pictures, it's mostly women showing off their stockings.
"Don't lewd the loli dragon", they said. People, I think you should tell the creators that!!!
Ravioli Ravioli, gonna keep lewding the dragon loli.
@@rikkuna7518 NONONONO
@@themyofmy Rikkuna YEEEES >:D
@@themyofmy Just enjoy the drawings you enjoy. Fiction isn't reality, and as long as no one was actually harmed in the making of something, it's free expression
@@rikkuna7518 I get they're not real and all but you're still a creep and I would not trust you around kids lol
My favorite part of this video is that you actually took the time to explain the dragon age argument. A typical dragon's lifespan is much longer than 1,000 years which does indeed make that argument redundant as defensive evidence, so I'm very grateful that someone actually pointed out and used this fact.
But a life span doesnt corallate maturatiy some creatures can be mature at the human equivelent of 18 and still live longer lives proprtionaly to humans its no thr case here but can be in other media
You can say the same thing about elf’s
@@BurningRubber454 or a lot of other beings
The main problem is that dragons don’t exist and the characters look like human children. I know it can feel good arguing over semantics but the “1000 year old dragon” argument is made in bad faith and engaging with it validates their point of view as something to be debated.
@@Lionfrog13 how is lulu “child coding”
The amount of hypocrisy and schizophrenia in this video is outstanding.
Tbh the scenes with Shota and Lucoa made me very very uncomfortable. Why is she trying to seduce a child?
It gets worse if you reverse the gender roles
@@crestren5996 oh fuck
@@crestren5996 How is that worse?
@@KingOfDarknessAndEvil Id say its the perception. Its still bad if its either gender but have you noticed that whenever a a guy gets sexually harrassed, usually by an older woman, its funny, but if its a girl getting the same treatment, the man doing it to her is creepy.
Its a double standard imo, I've seen in media, not exclusive to anime.
@@crestren5996 a guy being harassed or abused isn’t funny
The creator is obsessed with shotacon and lolicon, he's one of those creepy doujin guys who just happened to make something more soft core that he could pass it off as comedy
Bingo, same with that bully fetish Nagatoro character, that's obviously also a minor. The creator is known for making past hentai doujinshi's that reference loli, and even look similar to that reocurring design.
@@lordnokia4222 i already hate nagatoro for reinforcing that "guys would want this because it's from a woman" narrotive. Now i see more of a reason to dislike it.
And then you have someone like Kohta Hirano who also used to do hentai, but nothing shota or lolicon as far as I've ever been able to find, and has some of the best female characters I've seen in anime/manga as a whole.
Like he puts in plenty of pervy shit but the framing worked (and even the SA scenes got framed as the horrid acts they are not just torture porn), and he made sure everyone involved in the more comical pervy bits were stated and depicted as adults (Seras is i believe 19/20). It isn't perfect but goes to show just how low the bar is and how few mangaka can even manage getting past it.
So he's more based?
@@TurtleChad1 Bad Bait, nobody else reply to this degenerate.
Honestly I really like the section talking about how to actually deal with problematic media
Don't press "Sort by New" then, it will completely ruin that for you.
Being short and having big boobs is not "problematic". It's a character exaggeration. This is just fucking Uzaki-chan all over again. "Peepee poopoo cartoons with unrealistic fantasy characters waah"
@@Sammysapphira you didn't watch the video. they literally agree with "Being short and having big boobs is not "problematic""
@@Sammysapphira did you even watch the video
@@Sammysapphira Spot the guy who didn't watch the video.
Honestly preferred the villains over the protagonist’s. They made the protagonists honestly kinda boring. And I prefer personality over *boring.*
It makes sense when you look at the Biblical heroes and realize.
“Oh my.”
I keep forgetting the parts between the Shouta and Lucoa, I think I just keep repressing them.
As for the Kanna bits, put together like that it's definitely too far. It's a shame that what is otherwise a sweet story is spliced with this kind of thing. Like precocious kids (referring to Riko) exist, but that is going way overboard, bordering if not crossing into fetishistic.
I just skipped the Lucoa and Shouta bits.
I agree, the show is very sweet and comfy but there were just too many gross bits for me. It’s a shame.
I really like the show, and still pushed through the whole thing, although this video brought alot to light for me. I think Shouta and Lucoa's relationship couldve been written better. It could have been a pubescent boy just feeling new things about women he never has before, and also having more sexual knowledge since he's in 5th - 6th grade (And lets be honest, kids that age aren't very innocent anymore). But the way it was portrayed was just straight up assalt. At first, I kinda think it was a joke about an pubescent boy having more sexual thoughts due to hormones, but I think they took it way too far. Before, I never noticed Kana's design, but now I notice how they plumpened her thighs and made her overall a bit more sexual. I think Kana is adorable and I wish the Kana and Saikawa thing was just a cute little crush but its just... Too far. Honestly I think the character who was basically the least out of the problems was Fafnir. Most chill character in the anime, partially stayed for that guy.
@@rey_cel i mean 6th grade we couldn't go one english class without laughing ourselves silly whenever the teacher said 'do it' no matter the context
@@willowarkan2263 I remember one time the health teacher was explaining acne and pimples and then he said puss and one of the guys in the back moaned. good times.
Considering the author of this manga calls himself a lolicon, and reading the source material, its amazing how much more tame the anime is LMAO. I’ll give it to kyoani for trying their best
No SHE is Oppai Loli
@Ronald weasley did you just type out pepelaugh like a discord emoji
@@perkuu6937 discord mod omegalol
And?
@@banzaikampfmaschine_der_echte oh?
Finally someone said it! It doesn't matter how many human years old is a character, but how old is the character for their species and how are they presented in the story!
There's also the fact that the author could have easily made these characters teens at least.
I mean u got characters like in re zero who are younger or significantly older than they look, but more often than not it's never focused on
Yed
*yes
@Ty The Great Yeah, fantasy can get really weird if you try to think it with real life logic. It's not even sarcasm, I suck writing fantasy because I want the fantastic things to be "realistic" which is kinda dumb
This made me feel a lot better about my oc since for a while I was struggling coming up with an accurate age for him. His appearance is that he is babyfaced and really short (4.8) due to genetics and that his personality is that he is Optimistic and a bit naive. I never intended to actually child code him but with the way he is it kind of seems like it, however the character is very intelligent being a literal theoretical physicist but since he was more sheltered growing up which is why he is quick in trusting others and trying to find the bright side of things. Because of his job there is no way he is still a child but because of his appearance he still look’s prepubescent
Could be a genius kid. Gottem
I didn't know that Jafar wore eyeliner. I always thought he was just tired and had really bad bags under his eyes
I noticed but didn't really think anything of it because wearing eyeliner as a man is completely normal in the Muslim world.
@@bigsealfan9579 I don't think it's a Muslim thing. Its a cultural thing. Go to Pakistan for example and people will laugh at u for wearing eye liner as a male. I've never heard about this eye liner shi in Islam and I'm a Muslim myself.
@@user-jh5wt8lq9x Ah, Aladdin.. Aka, Orientalism The Film.
Dude my boy looked tired and why is eyeliner associated with gay people like what
@@user-jh5wt8lq9x kohl eyeliner is quite common in middle eastern countries, maybe not in south asian countries like pakistan though
I mostly see bedouin people w kohl in the middle east though
I think fans understand coded character design more than they let on because I clearly remember the shit show that was the discourse around She-Ra reboot.
the thing about her looking like a boy because she doesn't have a curvy design?
@@ghostpurr9570 Nah, it was way less about the curves and more so the outfit.
She-Ra reboot still ass in my opinion.
@Yoshiko Tsushima I dunno who you were replying to due to UA-cam always assuming you responded to everyone in the comments so I just wanted to ask if you meant the main comment or me xd
It was less a discourse based on "coding" and more on how the character is remarkably different from the original. New She-Ra isn't coded to be tomboy-ish and non-sexualized, she's explicitly tomboy-ish and non-sexualized.
Interestingly my first issue with this show despite how much I love season one is Lucoa and Shota kun. Maybe I'm not looking at the right places but almost none of the comments on yt clips mention how disturbing it is that Lucoa is literally forcing her breasts on a middle schooler. The whole dynamic just screams grooming and not to mention Shota ALWAYS objects to these advances. Unlike Kanna and Ilulu where people can debate about their age, Lucoa is presented as a full grown woman and she is literally hundreds of thousands of years old. There is no doubt she is a full grown adult. If people have issues with Edward and Bella, this is imo a hundred times worse. Shota kun cannot and didn't consent. Also Shota's parent see Lucoa doing this to Shota and does NOTHING and basically approves. Is this because this shows audiences are mostly male so guys don't think much of this? For a show with such outstanding wholesome moments it has equally the amount problematic ones.
Guess it's only problematic to a minority perspective.
Go figure.
Best to just Gate keep yourself out of the medium then.
i literally HATED lucoa because of her predatory behavior. it's so crazy to find you be one of the first to point it out. like yeah the implications of kanna and ilulu are weird as hell too but can we take a moment to also look at our boy shouta (whose name is literally "little boy"???)
Weebs are mostly touch starved men with weird sex fantasies so of course they don't talk about it
@@thenyancatcookie FR LIKE WHY IS HIS NAME LITERALLY SHOTA. THEY DIDN'T EVEN TRY TO HIDE IT
most people, a lot of comments here, and me have a bias towards boys.
It is like male r@p@, it is a comedy for other works but when it is a female it is a tragedy. If the male has a hot female companion then we cheer, ugly and we feel bad but never horrified or disgusted like little girls and uncles.
OK, while I disagree with... quite a few points in this video (especially at the end) I have to applaud level headed approach, disclamer about doxxing (I hate that we live in times when it's needed) and reasonable take on the topic.
“I hope this isn’t the first video of mine that you’re watching.”
Well, this is
AWKWARD
Same
Love your pfp by the way
Same
Some of you are missing the point. It's not that child coded characters are the problem; it's sexualized ones without definitive adult-ness.
Really, because here I was thinking the problem is that people like you care about the sexual nature of a fictional entity.
Calvinini Thats objectively wrong, but thanks for
stating your uneducated opinion. Thanks.
how is that a problem? should we ban movies like Saw? it promotes obscene violence for things like cheating and lying. are you saying you're okay with that?
you need a therapist if you can't differentiate fact and fiction. is your western brain so weak and mushy that you're influenced by fiction?
people are so brain-dead these days. can't think for themselves. can't align their own moral compass. need the government to tell them what to watch, where to watch it, how to watch it and when and with whom to watch it.
@@phxcppdvlazi I'm honestly baffled as to how you don't understand that fiction can actually while angrily typing a comment made over your attachment to a fictional show. Maybe you should have watched the whole video before making the comment?
@@joshs7160 Definition of child prngrphy: "Child prngrphy can also be drawn, written or created by a computer. In that case, it is called" simulated child prngrphy, virtual child prngrphy, non photographic child prngrphy or pseudo photographic child prngrphy": the child in the prngrphy is simulated, virtual or drawn, meaning the child is NOT REAL"
Sadly, as much as it pains me to say this, I must agree with you. I was hoping that Dragon Maid would be the one romcom anime that finally stands above the rest, and it kinda was for a time. The scenes with Kobayashi and Tohru were quite nice and could have led to a heartfelt romance. However, the focus on younger characters in sexual situations was beginning to get uncomfortable. I can ignore it at first for the use of maybe a joke or two, but when it keeps happening again and again things start getting suspicious. I really wanted to give Dragon Maid a good rating but I just cannot in good conscious anymore. Illulu's design reminds me of a certain character in Eiken, and trust me you do not want your anime to be compared to that trash heap in any shape or form.
I'm sorry. If it's any consolation, I ended up in a distinct but concerning dynamic in an otherwise enjoyable series/concept. I assume you've heard of Ancient Magus' Bride? Lovely animation, wonderful stories, excellent atmosphere. The thing where our audience surrogate is bought by a man, kept by her somewhere where she knows no one else, and she is just meant to eventually marry him eventually is a pill I could not swallow. It just lent an uncomfortable undercurrent to things that I really could've done without.
This doesn't mention the fact there is a particular character was constantly sexual harassing a literal child!!! 🤢
You know, it's always been strange being an anime fan and a victim of child sexual abuse. It's sickening but you kind of just have to put up with it because many people are naive to the problems the community has. I've always hoped that one day there'd be a legitimate anime on child sexual abuse that kind of slaps everyone in the face that ignores this type of issue, really makes the medium question the choices it has made.
People aren't naive, they just don't care about victims. Even noralities drew sexualized fanart of underage boys from NHA.
@@georgespiggott5615 It's probably both in some capacity. I just wish things would change.
@@georgespiggott5615 "they just don't care about victims", how does it hurt victims to draw fictional characters?
It doesn't, it harms no one
@@sadapple2918 why do they need to change? It's not hurting anyone, you are just overreacting and crying like a child
@@elusive_reverie yes I'm a map, I'm anti-contact and work with therapist in prevention programs along with other survivors of CSA and csem
What exactly is the problem?