@@meringue3288 ai is a noun for love. ai love has much of the ambiguity of english love but in the context it inplies an irrational romantic love. aishiteru means ai shiteru ai means love. shiteru means doing i am doing love or i love X where X is already implied
If you're relationship is so intense you're metaphorically naked in space with each other... it'd take a lot of explaining for me to not read overt romantic tones.
When it comes to imitating Madoka, I think it's important to recognize that being dark and gritty wasn't what made the show good. Being dark and gritty was what highlighted the things that made the show good. No matter how harshly the characters' love and hope were challenged, they were always treated with the utmost tenderness and empathy. And in the end, love wins. It's an ultimately hopeful experience, that not giving up on humanity is worth it.
It's a fairly good modern tradegy. Even if you consider the ending of the anime as "happy/hopeful" you still end up with Homura having suffered so much only to have gained very little in the end. The fact that Rebellion shifts to focus on Homura and highlight the profound impact her suffering had on her psyche is just a really great way to end off the arc.
More a response to the first sentence of your statement, and people were saying how fresh and new it is, rather than a proper response to your statement: To be fair, dark and edgy is kind of bringing the genre back to its roots, rather than trying to do anything new. That and constantly letting to shine a light at the end of the tunnel at the same time.
Even Bewitched is deeply enmeshed with gay culture. I wish that Sabrina the Teenage Witch had some LGBTQ represntation. Maybe if Sabrina's roommate with a crush on Zelda was a "Mila" rather than "Myles".
@@Kathbunny2 Sabrina started in '62 as a teen witch living with her witch aunts. 1964 gave us the TV series Bewitched (a series with so many LGBTQ connections that Matt Baume has a Culture Cruise video about it). Samantha Stevens was a witch housewife living among mortals, and the show is often credited as the IP that inspired Japanese Magic Girl properties. In 1970, Sabrina got her own comic series. In 1996, Archie, Melissa Joan Hart, and Melissa's mom gave us Sabrina the Teenage Witch (a live-action sitcom with lots of wordplay, huge guest stars, and epic fashion. One of my recent favorites in the American live action "magic girl" pattern is Hallmark's Good Witch franchise about a matrimonial witch bloodline, the family thar Cassie Nightingale marries into and town that she becomes part of. Over the course of 7 films, 70 episodes, and 7 specials (presented like films), Cassie went from spooky outsider with an occult shop and superstrong intuition to an esteemed community member whose abilities become more pounced onscreen to the point where she performs divination with runes. I had been waiting for some character on Good Witch to come out, and eventually, we got the lesb8an witch Joy (played by the bisexual Katherine Barrell). As she develops a relationship with a local firefighter, and they eventually get married, the characters and viewers were getting butterflies.
I think it’s funny that Disney goes around showing off their “first openly gay character” (that is entirely just queer-baiting) but haven’t said a single thing about their ACTUAL first openly gay relationship of luz and amity from the owl house, and instead decide to brush it under the rug and try to almost cancel the show early by only signing it on for 3 seasons
@@dollmaker6599 I would actual recommend watching it! It’s an amazing show and if you’re interested in magic, witches, and fantasy then it’s one of the many shows out there that are perfect for that subject.
Forget Madoka and Homura, Kyouko litreally died for Sayaka and Sayaka litreally told her she was the only thing she missed about Earth. Then they held hands tightly and tears fell from their eyes, like even my child brain went “oh they must be in love”
No joke, Madoka x Homura was my first positive sapphic representation as a very homophobic teen. I looked at their relationship, how Homura suffered for Madoka’s sake and her alone over and over again… and I just thought, “How can this be evil? How can this be wrong?” And that started a years long journey into discovering myself and realizing that I liked girls and accepting myself.
Yeah... that's a whole... oroboros of damned if you do, damned if you don't. As an Ace myself (Aego specifically), I appreciate that there is representation for our fellow Aces in that "innocent girl romance" way, but I personally am with Nora in how frustratingly reductive the portrayal often is.
I don't mind pure, innocent girl romances if the aim is because they're asexual. It severely bothers me when their reasoning for making it pure and innocent is "this is for children we can't show anything more than innocence, then it's DIRTY". They truly attribute lesbian intimacy as dirty, even if it isn't inherently sexual.
I'm legitimately shocked you made a whole essay on gay magical girls and didn't mention Nanoha even once. For 2007 (and hell, even now) it's actually insanely progressive to showcase the titular protagonist as a woman not only in a relationship with another woman, but having them be parents, and having characters comment on how it was uncommon to see a kid with two mothers (though it never came off as passive aggressive either).
you're expecting her to actually watch an anime that isn't utena, sailor moon, or madoka, that's a big ask. she went this entire video without even mentioning precure exists.
@@Everdistance yea this is a propaganda channel, Noraliti is so focused on making new lies,stereo types and inventing new minority groups that she had no time to watch anything other than extremely superficial synapses.
@@FFX2KH2Master Thank you, I try!🥲 I do not doubt you are similarly cultured. Just as an aside: in Nanoha: Force, Subaru befriends a boy while hiking in a forest. So much for SubaruXTia.🤷
The Madoka Magica effect in Japan was similar to the Game of Thrones effect I saw here in America. Shows had to be dark and gritty, characters could get killed off at any moment, plenty of unnecessary raunchy scenes, etc. When something becomes wildly popular, everyone tries to mimic it and very few do it correctly because they focus on the wrong things. Writers thought people wanted dark and gritty magical girls, while completely overlooking what actually made MM good (other people have gotten into this so I won't). Similarly, writers thought GoT was good because of all the raunchy scenes along with killing off any character without a moments notice. Funnily, I think that's what the writers focused on in the final seasons of GoT, which is why everyone hated those seasons and the entire franchise basically exited mainstream culture.
Another issue is that the series was NOT Dark 100% of the time. They have the girls hanging out at school, arcades, etc. There's times for the Audience to Recover and there was ALWAYS Hope that things would work out somehow in the end. But it's something that seems common EVERYWHERE. Not just Shows and Movies, but Video Games as well.
Every milestone creative work, especially ones that are very well received both critically and financially, inspire imposters like that. Like how RE4 was a monster success and spawned a generation of third-person shooters with mixed end results, or how every other new manga series we get is an isekai. Sometimes an idea just seems like it'll do well, but someone involved in the project didn't quite get WHAT worked about the original.
I’m really glad this video touched upon Madoka Magica’s influence on the magical girl genre, specifically in regards to the onslaught of “edgy” shows that came after it. While I do love the magical girl genre and so many shows in it, I had to take a break from watching newer shows simply because every new one that came out seemed all too desperate to copy Madoka and make the main girls suffer as much as possible. That’s not to say that these shows weren’t good, but it got old seeing show after show with the protagonists in constant states of pain and/or distress for just trying to be heroic
It's even worst when you consider that, beyond the melodrama, PMMM actually tried to exploit philosophical and religious themes, which its followers didn't seem to do. I mean seriously, if you watch Madoka under the scope of Buddhism, a lot of things make more sense, notable Rebellion.
I only recently watched Madoka and don't really follow the magical girl genre, but this doesn't surprise me as someone who was around when it first gained popularity. Unfortunately it's all too common for people to try and imitate something widely acclaimed without understanding why it worked as well as it did.
@@NIHIL_EGO That happens a lot, when a series makes waves a ton of others try to copy it without understanding the message or themes, leading to shallow imitations that only take the superficial elements.
Something that I also think other edgy madoka inspired shows miss is that the world of madoka is ultimately a world largely filled with decent people that are worth saving. Even at the end of the original series when it’s reaching the darkest hour we still get scenes like Madoka’s dad playing with her little brother in the hurricane shelter and Madoka’s mom and teacher sharing drinks and supporting each other I mean the worst human characters are Homura and Kyoko. Both of which went through insane levels of trauma. Meanwhile the madoka ripoffs are filled with insane evil bullies and just utterly horrible authority figures making you question why the main girls are even trying to save anyone.
@@appelofdoom8211 I'd say that the two worst human characters are the two misogynistic men on the train who unknowingly participated in the birth of Okatavia and Uhrmann.
From what I’ve read, Japan has a version of the American “gay till graduation” concept that’s just much more widely accepted and even encouraged and considered a very pure and even spiritual type of love that goes beyond friendship but is expected to end when people reach adulthood and not be physical. That seems to align with the Takeuchi interview especially and the other one as well.
@Jacks Ragingbileduct [I came up with this in the moment, please don't take it as gospel.] The time limit is kind of integral, on rare occasions it's actually mentioned by someone that the feelings can't last forever or 'you're immature for still feeling that way.' The Gaze is romantic/sexual* _often._ Dramatic hand-holding, camera angles that make their lips look much closer than they really are. Other than that though, it's just two people who are closer than friends being supportive. I'm not familiar with bromance stuff, but I'm sure there's overlap. *Yeah, even when it's explicitly not a sexual relationship the audience can still be shown the scene in a sexual way.
24:51 "Why did you choose to portray a homosexual love?" "A really strong friendship turns into a love-like relationship without the sexual attraction, in their case." Key word: sexual. I think the sexual aspect of the word "homosexual" is understated. I agree with the head-writer's answer, the two girls can love each other strongly without being in a sexual context. Which I appreciate as someone ace but still respect romantic love between females or anyone else. It's possible for one to love their friend so potently without wanting to have sex with them. I understand that homosexuality can refer to _attraction to the similar sex_ but it can also mean inclination to having sex with the similar sex, instead of the opposite/heterosexual way. I think the difference between romantic love, platonic love, and sexual love can be mistaken and unrealized at times. I just wanted to say it here since it's been bothering me that people still tend to miss it.
I agree with this to a degree, but also disagree with it. I think the 'sexual' part of the word 'homosexual' is actually very overstated, to the point where people hear it and assume gay or queer relationships are only ever sexual, and if they aren't, then they automatically aren't 'queer'. People associate homosexuality with sex more than they do that with heterosexuality (depsite both implying _sexual_ and romantic attraction in their definition), that isn't anything new. If someone asked if a male and female character in an anime who are heavily implied to have romantic/sexual feelings for each other _actually_ have those feelings, most writers would say yes, probably without hesitation, and without having to qualify that their love isn't only or in any way sexual. Because people are more willing to see straight love as _actually_ romantic and to acknowledge that it's actually happening on screen. That's usually assumed to include sexual attraction, but they aren't gonna boil down the whole relationship to that, or assume that's being done in a way where they have to confirm or deny if that is accurate. Whereas same gender relationships that are often heavily coded as romantic get the ambigous 'they just like each other very much!!!' answer. And that's the point - if it was really about people loving other people in deep non-sexual/non-romantic ways, it would be happening to potential straight couples just as much if not more than it happens to potential gay couples, because straight couples are already SO overrepresented in the media, we desperately need to see that men and women can care about each other deeply without wanting to fuck. But it doesn't does it? People usually bring out that answer then there's speculation about same gender pairings. It really _is_ just a fancy way of avoiding saying that the characters are gay, as opposed to a genuine desire to validate non-sexual or romantic love. Otherwise the romantic implications that exist in shows like Madoka wouldn't exist.
@@Lisa_Flowers I agree with you. But I ought to have clarified what I meant with the "sexual aspect of homosexual is understated". Your take on it is what I completely agree with, but I meant the _further understanding_ of the sexual aspect is downplayed or understated. As if there would be nothing more to the portrayed love than just sex, or just romance, or just friendship. As if the love isn't as complex as the humans involved in it. Whether it be the perceived or intended. Your defense is more solid than mine, I believe. My bad for not expressing it well enough. I was more so emphasizing a love between two people who just happen to be the same sex as something unfocused, than two people of the same sex just happening to be in love.
This is what happens when (mostly sapphic) media accidentally create queerplatonic relationships for a queer couple for all the wrong reasons and not understanding what they have created...
Fun fact about Utena: In the Manga, Juri is not only painfully straight, but is obsessively in love with Touga. I'm so glad they changed her character for the anime, she's much more interesting as a stoic sapphic. Thanks for clearing up the "horse chase" scene mystery for me. That sequence ONLY appears in the series opening, and isn't in the manga either, so I've always wondered where that concept even came from.
With Urobuchi's wording it does seem plausible he understood the question from the hyper-sexual point of view instead of romantic. Translations do matter and I remember some brazilians made a fuss about a trans character being misgendered by an american author when in reality it was the translator's fault. But who knows, maybe in a different interview someone might ask this question using japanese directly
Even with this in mind, I think anybody using it to disprove Homura's being in love with Madoka would be pretty ridiculous to me. Her love for Madoka is too big a part of her to ignore or even dismiss as being "totally just bestie things
@@tama3162 Shoot, I usually can see things both ways with this kind of stuff and...yeah, the only arguments I could see for Homura not being romantically in love with Madoka are 1) Homura being read as toxic and obsessive (which I'm pretty sure is how one of the voice actresses on the show reads her, but also acknowledging she could love her in a more healthy way) or 2) Homura's love transcends a human understanding of love, far beyond romantic, sexual, and possibly even a human understanding of spiritual or divine love. That seems to be how she sees it herself and that, to me, falls under she's super gay.
@@Slendysis I think I know which quote you're talking about 'cause I've also seen a clip of the original line read for Homura's confession of love for Madoka, and how her VA redid it because the first take made her come off as "too much of a yandere." Either way, both options read to me as super duper gay, yeah. In an obsessive, possessive context, that's like, textbook predatory gay trope writing. I don’t think Homura is another case of Predatory Lesbians; I just mean that whenever there was a character obsessed with another, to even half the degree that Homura is dedicated to Madoka, them being gay was never a question (mostly because they were a villain and their gayness was presented as being overtly wrong and being forced onto their assumed straight object of their affections). And seeing your love for another as a religious experience, almost? That's also becoming another tool in the gay subtext toolkit, I swear to God Himself 😤
OH I just remembered something!! I wish I could find this post again, but I read somewhere that in Japan, lesbians aren't really viewed as "real lesbians" unless they're out and out fucking. Even kissing and being intimate in ways _apart_ from sex can be handwaved away, and I wouldn't be surprised if Class S had something to do with that. Y'know, the idea that romantic love between girls is "just them practicing for their inevitable husband." Urobuchi probably doesn't see Homura's love for Madoka as strictly homosexual because he could be caught in this mindset. It's still ridiculous to me but gives Urobuchi's statement more context.
Recently watched Adolescence of Utena and the fact that Utena is straight up wearing a binder in that is IMPRESSIVE, and a good indicator of juuust how gay it really gets. I can name the amount of series that I've seen a binder in on one finger; two if I count my own writing. Thanks for this video, it was incredible!
Holy smokes batman, Your right. Thank you for sharing this I totally missed that when I watched it back in Highschool and my mind is blown. I can think of I think a few more instances but there in manga and unless I go back and reread them I can't confirm but yea. My little enby heart is so happy I need to go back and rewatch the movie it's been too long.
I sincerely hope you're not dead and it's just a long gap between videos. Only just discovered your videos and I love your discussions, and queer analysis which is such high quality. Would love to see more of your work after I've binged most of your channel... Hope all is well.
I also came here to say this! As a queer woman, I never really feel heard or understood when watching critiques about the medium. Her videos have voiced a lot of the things I enjoy about certain shows or find issue with in others.
I'm a straight guy but I've always appreciated Magical Girls shows like Sailor moon and Cardcaptor Sakura since I was a kid for themes of friendship and expressing emotions😊
Ain't enough shows showing that it's ok for duderinos like us to express ourselves emotionally. Only watched a little but that little bit could've had a huge impact on me for all I know
Not that surprising that a straight guy would watch it & enjoy it. It would be *MUCH MORE* surprising if you were a gay guy considering that such ones that watch anime tend to only watch stuff like Dragon Ball Z because they want to avoid all the girly stuff that is usually associated with gays by straight people.
I legit thought girls were just magic as a young boy, kinda glad I grew up a nerd and was exposed to this trope in anime, it taught me empathy and culture my younger sister loved it and I’m sure was a big part in discovering and expressing herself
You as a child watching a show where a group of teenage girls absolutely pummel monsters with the power of rainbows: “Ah. I guess that’s just a thing girls do sometimes.” I mean, technically you can’t prove that we don’t.
As a bisexual girl Utena hit me hard. Her wanting to be a prince, her love interest for both Anthy and her brother blew me away. The whole story was so woven so deeply and tragic. Madoka was the same way. It told me all lot about myself ❤
I believe the reason magical girls are so appealing to a large portion of the Lgbt people [being one myself] is given the many hardships one goes through from childhood to adulthood, the idea of being able to transform yourself into a more powerfull self is extremely appealing. unless its a bussiness like madoka[dont talk to white alien foxes pls]
A major issue with the demographics is that here in the US, anime is so strongly viewed as masculine (to the point of men screaming about anime that don't cater to them) that josei almost never gets considered for import
@@hcsnakeexactly hell why would any country or audience worry about how "masculine" or "feminine" something is? I watch various anime that could considered in either camp because I am deciding not to care
@@Friendly_Neigborhood_Astolfo Same, that's the only proper attitude to art imo, everything else is just clueless. I hate the fact that some people even want to acknowledge that division.
@@Friendly_Neigborhood_Astolfo The thing that annoys me the most is that normie assumption that guys won't like things that are more feminine (as like, shojo anime for example). Like... aren't you guys all about liking girls? lol
Cutie Honey, the first 'Magical Girl Warrior', is also worth mentioning, since her manga confirmed that she's bisexual, and her series had girls crushing on her as much as guys. Honey's admittedly an edge-case when it comes to MGs, but Toei does officially consider her a Magical Girl and she was one of Sailor Moon's inspirations Edit: One of the main influences on early Magical Girl shows was Bewitched, which has frequently been read as a gay allegory and having had several gay actors, the show's creators acknowledged and ran with the allegory. Matt Baume has a video all about this
Heavily appreciative that you touched on how Yuri suffers from both ends or the spectrum. Male gaze AND overly pure. Way too many people over look the harm of straight people viewing all lesbian relationships as overly innocent and devoid of sexual desire
it's kinda rooted into the thankfully fading belief that a girl that isn't a "sick slut" doesn't enjoy sex a lot. legit growing up i was told sex was a male thing, something that women put up with cause THEY like it. also since "there's no pp how do they sex huh??" people really need to be educated on this stuff
@@margheritasalvatore5620 It pretty much explains why most gay stuff is just p***. Like that's what 80% of it is. Even then, the 20% of that stuff is either aimed towards girls or furry material. Want something that ISN'T furry nor aimed towards girls nor the nudity stuff, then you'll more than likely have to scour the internet for like 15 days just to find one.
as a dude i am annoyed by the amount of pandering in the market i like brainless yuri ocasionally but i want there to be some actual stories the issue is that requires companies to hire skilled authors instead of mass producing cookie cutter "romantic parodies"
Honestly I'm kinda moving away from the highschool setting all together to the work life setting which feels more mature and past the "lesbian love will fade away when you grow up" or meant as male gaze (to put it lightly).
I'll be always sad Mamoru's powers were never shown in the anime, he was basically turned into a running gag instead of a character. Although in the later seasons he was more of a "damsel in distress", which is a sliiiiight improvement.
No wonder why some people gravitate more towards shipping Usagi and Seiya rather than having Tuxedo Mask in the picture! Heck, some people even forgot his name! It's fricking Mamoru CHiba for crying out loud! LMAO
I also love how Nora censored the word, "fuck" with Yoshi's tongue sound effect! Yet, "fuck" is still audible past that censor! What would happen if it was censored? Would she get "demonetized" for saying a "naughty" word? LMAO
@@sirmoony5633 seiya literally never respected Usagi’s boundaries, forced themselves on her even after usagi made it VERY clear she wasn’t interested, lied to their entire school they were dating, stalked her, tried to ruin her and mamoru’s relationship and forced a kiss on her, how is that better compared to the actual love Usagi and Mamoru have 💀
Have to admit, Japan still has a relatively conservative cultural environment. Most developers of movie/game/literature in Japan will say "probably" or "it's up to your interpretation" in order to not offend the wide spectrum of audiences (or put their carrier in danger if they offend their investors). But they know exactly what they are presenting on screen. Same goes with Witch of Mercury
The Madoka thing is so upsetting, I just watched it for the first time this year and interpreted her and Homura as obviously loving each other. It's comforting to know a lot of fans are on the same page at least.
In regards to Madoka and Homura's ambiguously sapphic feelings for each other, almost a decade has past since Rebellion came out, which is a long time in Internet years, so hopefully feelings toward queer people in Japan have changed enough since then that Madoka and Homura's relationship can finally be confirmed as romantic (or not, but I hope for the former). I'm noticing a lot more positive and unambiguous queer representation in anime that came out since then compared to beforehand, with some of those anime being fairly popular and successful (notably Yuri On Ice), so hopefully the creators also notice this and seriously consider the idea.
Honestly I think Noralities is kind of miscontruing what Urobuchi said about Madoka. His response was most likely a defensive for Madoka Magica due to how much negative press an extremely popular series would be if he openly said that the two leads are gay. Everyone in the madoka community will understand Homura and Madoka as gay, but keeping hardcore homophobic conservative Japanese politicians, journalists, and media away from the Madoka community is a good thing. I believe he said it specifically to keep negative press away.
That line at the 28 minute mark about how it is easy for a heterosexual romance to be depicted as love but it takes a lot more effort to show a homosexual romance as love is actually why, as a heterosexual, I greatly appreciate homosexual romance stories. Because they are simply better as stories. The romance isn't easy. Becoming convinced that the other person really loves them isn't easy. Homosexual romance is forced to be far more drawn out than heterosexual romance, and so much depiction of heterosexual romance is just two good looking people thrown together without a care for whether it would really work. That said, I hope you get your representation, but I do hope that heterosexual romances can learn from that tension and anxiety and exhilaration I have seen in homosexual romances.
I hope you're doing safe and ok. It's unusually more than 8 months of absence... You're a very potential anituber/content creator on this platform and I really love your videos. Hope to see you back soon 🤞🏻
Oh. Growing up I never realized that the "girl admiring the other girl" in [insert manga here] was because of romantic interest... 🙈 I just thought it was, you know, a girl admiring a girl because she's totally cool and dandy. Like I did. 🤦🏻♀️ Insert queer screaming here please. Thank you. 🤙
Yeah I thought the same too... about myself. Surprise surprise, when I got older and starting look back at my past "friend-crushes" where I idolized a girl and wanted more than anything to be closer to her and felt nervous and excited anytime I talked to her... that might have actually been a tad gay.
Me too, until i watched sailor moon crystal as an adult and saw usagi making literal heart eyes at sailor mars and leave the bus after her even tho it was not her stop. I was like " dude, mamoru, my guy , i think your future wife is lesbian "
what is the name for the attraction that is attraction of hero worship? or is it just called heroworship? the divide of "i like so and so or do i want to be them?"
Actually it's can be both ways, she can be in love with the other girl or see her as big sister or role model (NOTE, if you in Incest, you need to go to Jail because that is disgusting.), so for me it can be both ways.
Long story short: because nothing's better than a literal lesbian power couple Also; you did not just put Heaven Official's Blessing in there for a split second!!! I love it so much!!!
Just wanted to say that I miss you, Noralities. I’m sorry people can be such pieces of shit. Hope you’re taking care of yourself and living your best life. ❤
I remember playing Magia record (the Madoka gacha game) and it was always easy to tell when urobuchi was writing the story because Sayaka and Kyouko would suddenly be in a lot of scenes together and and have lots of moments declaring how much they like the other whereas basically any other writer split them up and focused on Sayaka like Kyousuke. It’s honestly really weird seeing people try to process Madoka characters in a heterosexual way. We also got our first confirmed lesbian in a cast of almost 100 magical girls so yay!… still waiting on number 2
@@mndy129 didn’t Rika straight up say in her story that she “likes girls”? And not in the platonic sense, I’m pretty sure her wish had to do with a girl she had a crush on but decided to make end up with the guy she was already going out with. (I think my memory of her story is a little fuzzy)
My theory on "probably" Homura is 100% a lesbian who is in love with Madoka. Madoka on the other hand... calls Homura her "very best friend" so I would say it's potentially unrequited. But also potentially not. Who knows? On the other hand, Sayaka literally choosing to come back from the dead because she misses Kyoko and says "I had one regret. You. I missed YOU" and holding Kyoko's hand is incredibly gay. And while in the series proper she liked Kyosuke, in Rebellion at the beginning Kyoko even comments on how Sayaka has gotten over him. It's pretty clear Sayaka and Kyoko are at least in love. Homura loves Madoka, and Madoka... might? love Homura. Note how there are also a lot of semi-canon stories as well. Tart Magica, Kazumi Magica, Oriko Magica, etc. Almost all of them are accepted as pretty much canon. All except one. There is one SINGLE spinoff that every single Madoka Magica fan agrees shouldn't count as semi-canon, and that's "Mami Tomoe's Everyday Life" in which... Everyone is straight, and Homura married Madoka's younger brother Tatsuya so she could technically be family with Madoka???? Every English-speaking Madoka Magica fan I know rejects this as semi-canon. And don't even get me STARTED on how wrong the age difference between Homura and Tatsuya is, that's like the easiest thing to unpack out of everything wrong with what I just said. I imagine if they didn't draw Mami how they did (just look up the cover art of the volumes and you'll understand) I don't know if this sell as well as it apparently does according to the wiki. Or Gen Urobuchi said probably just to mess with people, or as a way to say "I want to say yes and everyone who has seen the show knows it, but I legally need to provide an out just in case of homophobia costing me my job" but obviously I'm making this up and have no idea what he was actually thinking. AND THEN THERE'S MAGIA RECORD, but it's about time I shut up.
Taking Urobuchi's "Probably" as anything more than him trolling is a mistake imo. Lying to interviewers' faces is one of Gen's most closely held hobbies. Remember "I want to be known as a healing-type author"?
@@andrewcapra7153 urobochi knows everyone just wants the lesbian tragedy to end in a sapphic fantasy but that fucker will be dragging this tragedy trough the fucking gutter for as long as possible
If I had a dollar for every person with a seething hatred of Mami's Everyday Life, I'd be a fucking millionaire. Like, even the people who don't hate it will admit that it isn't that good to begin with because the comedy just sucks ass. Hell, IIRC, the author didn't even watch the entire anime before making the damn thing.
@@darkbeetlebot only good thing about that series is the cover art. And unrelated, Magia Record has gotten even GAYER since I left that last comment, so that's nice.
It's been a long time, and other commenters have sent comments too, so I wanted to let you know that I miss you and your content. I'm a huge fan, and I look forward to your next release, whenever it comes out. I hope you're doing okay and taking care of yourself.
Being a Bi guy, magical girl anime were my first experience in 'Hey same gender can be interested in each other'. That was pretty big. Sailor Moon blazed a trail. And I literally wrote poetry about Tomoyo's unrequited love...
Tbh as a gay guy I relate to the struggle of people who fetishize creating most of the genre that show the minority you are a part of, and yaoi and bara aren't as cleanly separated as you make it sound. Many yaoi are very respectfully written and not only fetishizing and bara works can be just as fetishizing just not through the female gaze, it is frustrating having masc for masc works that are in high amount eye candy being the majority in respectful works
They also aren't separate and these terms are outdated and can even be offensive! Both fall under the genre of 'BL', and a LOT of 'female' BL authors tend to infact be LGBT+ men using female pen names to protect their identities. The false narrative comes from the root of the genre being in mainly girls pioneering it.
@@mariefurukawa2627 I knew there must be male Asian BL artists too but often we hear only the female names doing it. I wish the male Asian BL artists would make themselves known while hiding their true identity if they wish but at least let the audience know they are male and lgbt+. I know western BL artists are more open about their identities even when they are male or gender nonconforming which is great as the audience can understand the experience of the author and hence the story they make.
Really! I feel like many yaoi aren't respectfully written, a few yes but not many. Is there some you would recommend? I guess some forms of works can seem too sexual for some of us readers. I personally am okay with reading stories with sex scenes but I would prefer a complex story with good romance development in it.
I feel the same as Sunny V! I'm new to the genre and i'm having a hard time finding good reccomendations because honestly a lot of the ones I find are pretty ghastly, not just in their rep of gay men but also just with issues of consent, power differentials, or (illegal) age differences. I would love reccomendations that _aren't_ that lol
@@Lisa_Flowers i love mxtx's books, you may want to give them a try. mdzs is a little kinky in the extra chapters but it's like. kinky sex dreams between two consenting married adults so it's nowhere near as uncomfortable as many queer media. and even though her books are classified as BL her female characters are good, all characters are heartfelt.
i hope you are doing alright! i see there is a HUGE gap between videos and I'm just hoping that you are just taking a break instead of being gone forever. i really love your content and like to binge them for days and i think this is honestly the 10th time I've fully rewatched this one video. and if you never post again there will be a hole in anime yt where you were, because your personal views and opinions especially on lgbtq topics are really appreciated and needed . i know this comment is probably grammatical hell to read but i just wanted to say that you are appreciated by so many for speaking about things with so much knowledge and research put behind it. i hope you have a good day/many days
As someone who grew up in the era where shows had even the barest hint of LGBT themes wiped clean from them, I'm very happy that studios are more accepting of such groups nowadays 😊
@@michealthrowaway2122 Nah, bro’s in other posts asking where Nora went and is saying the same in all of them. Not exactly helpful for anyone who looks at the comments to figure out why there have been no new videos. I mean, if he’s happy she’s gone, why is he stalking her last video over a year after it was posted? Just to make sure anyone who asks about her knows that he personally hates her? Seems obsessive.
They’re kids. Infintely immortal god kids, sure. But are they really old enough to know what a homosexual relationship is, aside from a deep friendship? Does it *need* to be more than that?
@@maxspecs honestly, would you say the same if one of them was a boy? What does it change that they're both girls? The show doesn't even hint at anything sexual if that's what you're concerned about.
@@m00nl1ghtj3w3l Gender’s got nothing to do with it! This is about sexuality, something that doesn’t even properly register in most kids until their mid teens, and others until their late 20s.
@@maxspecs oh do I have some news for you, it is exactly about gender as sexuality... is literally about what gender you're attracted to. A LOT of (straight) romance anime feature protagonists around the same age of Madoka and Homura and no one really bats an eye. Also, a 14 y.o does know what sexuality is. I myself started questioning my identity around that age. One could argue that they are not mature enough to pursue a relationship at that time, but it's not like being homosexual is such a wild concept even then.
I’m not gonna lie, I’m a bit surprised Revue Starlight wasn’t talked about because that’s an interesting case of “not explicitly gay but at the same time it can very easily be assumed” considering it’s a criticism of Takarazuka (which is indeed a very gay industry) and how the relationships of the girls and women are affected by its systems and idk there’s a lot that I wanna say about it that can’t be expressed in a simple UA-cam comment but I will say that at least I feel it’s a rare and interesting case at the same time though I’m not sure how much of a magical girl anime it is, because they’re technically just acting? Either way, it’s very much claimed by the sapphic community and I highly recommend a watch of it if you haven’t already
Seconded. Like, yes, I don't think Toppy has explicitely said that "they are gay", but like... each couple in the show isn't even subtle. Claire and Flora are described basically as "soulmate" and Hikari/Karen embody them and people have to be quite blind to miss Mahiru's romantic feelings for Karen. Maya and Claudine are literally and honestly as gay as it can get (dunno if you have seen the movie so SPOILERS but basically all of their revue truly looks like a huge wedding metaphor, coupled with the original title of the song having "a song about love?" in it). Junnana, while my favorite, is a bit more complicated to determine, but they have their truly strong moments as well both in the anime and other attached medias (manga/RElive). Futakao has truly this strong relationship where they, honestly, seem like an already married couple (SPOILERS again for the movie, but their revue was described by Furukawa as "a lover's quarrel in the Showa Era between a man and a woman, with the man expressing his selfishness for the first time"... kinda strong and explicit as a description). Not to mention Kaoroku being jealous of Futaba hanging out with other girls in the anime, manga and it's even brought up again in the movie. Thing is, as you said, it doesn't fit the 100% magical girl genre to a T, but admittedly, with Utena being mentioned as well and not completely being comforming to the "og" majokko genre, I would say Revue can still fit in.
@@noemi9088 WAIT! Two of the characters names are "Maya" and ""Claudine?" That's like OLD SCHOOL YURI. I'm talking 1970's Era. That is not subtle at all!
@@ArcaJ OOH, is it? Tell me more :D And yes, two of the characters (and dare I say, they form the most popular ship in the fandom) are named Maya and Claudine ❤
@@noemi9088 Just stumbled on this comment pretty late, but in case you see it: there was a manga called Claudine in the 1970s, by Ikeda Riyoko, the creator of the famous manga Rose of Versailles and Oniisama E. The title character, Claudine, was either a crossdressing butch lesbian or a trans man (it's never made completely clear, as you might expect from the era), and her(/his) first love was a servant girl named Maya.
I am probably just a waterdrop in a sea of other comments that are similar but, I love your content. I hope you are ok wherever you are and are comfortable. I miss your video essays
I may be wrong on this, but I think the interview where Gen Urobuchi said Homura was "probably" in love with Madoka came out before Rebellion. Given how Rebellion unambiguously confirmed Homura's romantic love for Madoka, I assume he either changed his mind or didn't want to give too much away. I can't actually find the interview again to confirm this.
I think (AND THIS IS A VERY BIG “I THINK”) I found a link to said interview…and the video was posted on in August…while Rebellion, from what I researched came out around October…so if it is true the interview came before the movie, I could definitely see this as Gen dancing around the wording to not spoil anything. And plus, now that I think of it…I can’t really say Homura and Madoka are in love…while yes undoubtedly Homura probably loves Madoka in the romantic sense, Madoka may not love Homura the same way…I mean of course she still loves Homura, but she straight up friendzones her by referring to her as her “very best friend”. So while I can say they do love each other in a way…but if someone were to ask me if they loved each other equally enough to be in relationship I would probably kinda have to say the same thing Gen said, “probably.” Ok little edit: Rebellion premiered to Japanese audiences in October while USA got it in December….I think…
really love your interpretation on how the magical girl is similar to the queer experience! I've always seen the transformation into the magical girl as them becoming their "ideal" or "true" self, so putting it in the context of queerness makes so much sense. Especially since, as you said, many magical girls hide this "other" self from people close to them due to fear of being discovered. great video!! :)
as someone who's so tired of seeing yaoi deal with the same issue (women writing gay romances about men), I can tell you I relate to how painful this lack of true representation is. I really hope one day we'll see more yuri works written by women for women. Best wishes, thanks for making such a great video on the subject.
There is plenty of yuri written by women. Class S and yuri were pioneered by women. The thing is anime studios rarely adapt the good stuff; and yuri-only magazines keep dying out which is probably one of the reasons yuri manga are all over the place demographic-wise.
Tbh I've heard and seen queer people and lesbian women like yaoi But I've actually agreed with people being tired of the cliches of yaoi and it's painfully used heteronormative tropes
@@yiwoon_cr8s Well the thing is that Boy's love and Danmei and Xianxia titles are mostly written by women for women. And that can cause trouble. But yeah, it can be complex.
Actually, gay romances are written also by gay men, and can have the same troubles as if they were written by women. Maybe we should stop treating homosexual romance as something separated from romance? Toxic relationship dynamic happens in both.
@@kiriki4558 No way?!? Next your going to tell me that lesbians have written lesbian romances too? /s Maybe you should take your own advice, instead of making excuses. saying crap like "Toxic relationship dynamic happens in both" and "stop treating homosexual romance as something separated from romance" As if the majority of yaoi/bl isn't fetishized by women. As if there isn't an imbalance of heteronormative crap in yaoi/bl. As if there there aren't gay men who As if mlm people have crap that caters to them like straight people do. Whether you like it or not, People have been treating homosexual romance as something separated from romance in yaoi/bl, And even in real life, for decades. And unless people start acknowledge it. Nothings going to change about it. All that going to happen is people like you shifting the focus onto the small amount of gay people who make shitty romances that are gay. Instead of the large amount of women (regardless of their sexuality) who make shitty romances that are gay.
Side note: LOTR has always had queer readings since it was released in 1950s, even a gay author from that time who I can't remember at this time, loved it and became great friends with Tolkien. This is a great video.
The gay friend you're thinking of is probably WH Auden. I think Tolkien isn't *as* bad at writing good female characters as this video says, but I can see why, especially from the movies, he seems that way.
Damn this video is already over a year old. Come back to us Noralities 😭😭😭💔💔💔 Your style of video essay and topics of discussion are too good to just abandon! You have literally THE best anime videos on youtube next to Hazel, Mother's Basement, Kaiser Beams and Super Eyepatch Wolf! I will patiently await your return. Please god, I hope you come back 🙏
The way I've seen it from a writing and marketing standpoint is while lesbian representation is direly wanted in media and is feasible it has to fight through not the stigma of being gay, but the potential loss of not being marketeable to boys. This is especially true in japan where your shows success depends on waifu material, so you get something like bakemonogatari where a tomboy girl says shes a lesbian for the mc's girlfriend, but then later starts getting kinky with him because he's the self insert. It ends up with no yuri being no money loss, a little getting more money, but anything explicit can be a potential loss in marketeability. Western animation doesn't have this because they don't have to sell the same way anime does, and western studios are full of lgbtq creators and have the power to make what they want with more creative power over time.
I just don't think that is particularly true, if anything I've seen a lot of claims that the reverse is the case: Having an actual male love interest (even the blank-slate) is threatening to the waifu-status.
@@emilsoderman3691 That's a fair point but I think that in that case, the male viewer is just taking the place of the MC. A lot of anime market themselves by having cute likeable female characters, and said female characters are single, meaning they're available (hypothetically) to the viewer, but that availability fantasy is going to sink hard if she's not straight. Even male anime fans know that being lesbian means no chance for you. I guess the main thrust is that if there's going to be more representation of lesbians in anime it has to win in the numbers game against a straight audience or has to be made by someone who wants to write that story.
@@khimeraQ That's my point, the availibility fantasy doesen't sink unless she is explicitly in a lesbian relationship. So the queerbaity-but-never-confirmed relationship is the ultimate "don't alienate anyone" formula. (except people who want an actual relationship in their stories)
Well yes and no. A lot of those are not even yuribait. They are waifu bait, the yuri part is just shoehorned in to make a harem feasible. I agree with Emil. Having a blank slate male is still a detriment. That's why cgdct has so much yuri elements. Removing the male completely is the better option.
I don’t know why, but I got the chills when you said “Everything is going to be okay.” /pos Thank you so much for making these videos!! Keep up the good work!
The first queer character in Sailor Moon is Sailor Moon herself, openly bisexual since she declared she could forgive everything to a girl as beautiful as Rei.
Before I get deeper into the video, I just wanna say that your dad was AWESOME for diving into the early interbutt for fansubs just because his daughter liked anime. You did miss one very important LGBT reading into magical girls, specifically a parallel between early "Class S" literature and early Magical Girls. In both "Class S" literature and early magical girl stories, the protagonists "grow out of it." For instance, the first season of the Sailor Moon anime (because of course this wound its way into Sailor Moon as all things Magical Girl do) had all the girls forget being magical girls at the end of the season, before season 2 was greenlit. And Sailor Moon was one of the first where...the main characters DON'T "just grow out of it." They pick it back up and go back to fighting. I could rant about Madoka Magica for days, especially about Rebellion. But...I won't because there's too much vitriol there for me. I call Madoka "The Evangelion of Magical Girl shows" for a reason.
“The Evangelion of Magical Girl Shows” is probably the best metaphor to describe the comparison between Madoka Magica and other magical girl series. They are so similar, down to the “do a collab with the battle cats” part lol.
I'd like to point out that Kill la Kill is very explicitly gay. Along with the subtextual relationship between Satsuki and Nonon, Ryuko and Mako kiss and go on a date.
Satsuki has a visually obvious bond with Gamagori, considering the facts of their power positions, and the designs of their uniforms after the transformations.
The relationship between Ryuko and Mako is gay af, that's undeniable even watching the little details in their interactions. Also, considering that Kill la Kill is based in Cutey Honey, it makes sense that they have something lesbian, just like Honey and Natsuko.
@@juliagarcia8054 Nonon is the one who has known Satsuko the longest. She brags a few times about how close she and Satsuki are. Satsuki even teases her back once when they're flying over Osaka. It's not in the anime, but in some official artwork, Nonon is shown looking lovingly at Satsuki. I can link that art if you want.
I remember the controversies back in the day and I wish they were approached with more nuance or at least acknowledgement that people can change their stances. Hope you're doing okay, no idea what happened in the interim.
@@BBrideley She did videos about "hey s*xualizing under age characters is weird" re: lolicon and whatnot. Not really bad takes but the anime fanboy proshipper crowd didn't like them and went digging for receipts, found that when she was younger (earlier20s?) she had drawn risque baku/deku art. Those characters are teenagers. Which... she had obviously stopped doing, deleted before she started her video essay thing but you know how internet archive weirdos are. Unfortunately acknowledging "yep drew it, dont stand by it anymore" is hard because one side is absolutionist "you did it in the first place at all, p*do apologist", the other will smug out about how you're a hypocrite. which is exactly what happened with the latter and counter-responsive video essays. like I shouldn't have to say a teens-to-20s woman relating to muscular anime dudes enough to draw them kiss is gonna be a different ballpark from venting about "mineta and kanna are weird and scenes where the girls/women don't get agency are uncomfortable". some people do the aged-up rhetoric for drawing vs studio heads explicitly writing the highschoolers into those scenes if you get me. there's room for grey area, changing perspectives and one thing feeling okay at the time but not another. But people are absolutionist to the point the word shotacon was thrown around or they thought her going 'i simp for hanako-kun' in jest meant like, the character and not the anime. :| She never acknowledged it and whilst I don't blame her it emboldened some people to be all "aha! obviously she is burying it because hypocrite!" instead of taking into account "guys there's like no roadmap for how to talk about this that doesn't just draw more attention to it". She did more positive bubbly reviews for a while but the negative attention never left so I don't blame her slowfade from everything. with one of the websites keeping tabs on receipts being kind of dodgy (afaik) it was just safest to fade off.
As someone who came to the magical girl genre from Madoka, thank you for making this. Even if I love the (better-done) misery porn series because my diet is about 80% catharsis by volume, this was a really valuable and appreciated examination of where the genre came from and its history of queerness.
I hope you are doing okay, Noralities!! No pressure to upload any videos or anything but given that you disappeared out of the blue and haven't posted I'm a bit worried something happened. Wishing you the best!
Hello there! I'm here to say I miss you and I hope you're doing great. Thanks to you, me and my husband we are watching Princess Tutu! So thank you for convincing me to give it a chance
I think a lot of the issue is that a lot of those Japanese authors still don't know shit about gay relationship. You see similar in the way how many femboys we have (at least when it started), I think a lot of the authors wanted to make a trans character but because of stereotypes just made an cross dresser. But also the fanbase defines pretty much every ambiguous character into a cross dresser.
It often can get complicated because while labels are often similar and imported from english, they aren't neccessarily *exactly* the same. My understanding is that the term usually translated as crossdressing is itself a bit more ambigious in japanese.
I don't know about that. Japan's LGBT spectrum, at least to me, feels much broader(?). Crossdressing is a huge part the night scene in Tokyo and there are many otoko-no-ko (straight, cismen who crossdress and have feminine aethetics and/or hobbies) who would take offense at such a remark. Yet at the same time, we also have people like the author of Moriarty the Patriot who wanted to make Irene trans but said he did not have the knowledge nor the experience to accurately portay such a character (and consequently, the character become more genderfluid than trans or crossdresser). So I'd say you have hit the bullseye, but the numbers maybe more low than you think (but much, much higher than the averaged otaku would admit).
Or maybe instead of acting like a colonialist, learn about how lgbt is in their culture? Western and Asian societies are not the same. While western societies is rooted deep in religious beliefs that condone same sex relationship, its not the same for most asian countries. The way they see sexuality is different there, even more for japanese. No wonder they are the country who produce better lgbt rep than western. American always feels force to make gay archetype that act a certain way and all flashy or talk a certain way. Or they always have to add a smutty scene. In Japan, for exemple the general consensus is that its normal for teens and young adult to have romance behaviours with same gender. It's mostly seen as teen having fun before adulthood. So in a way its hard for young gay people to find a sincere relationship. Well that is not the case for Japan. Most gay characters are just that, people who happen to be gay and that it. And we get every type of japanese gay. The stereotypical flashy gay type are Okama, irl japanese guys who happened to be mostly middle age men who enjoy feminine things. Also what great about japanese view is that GNC does not equal to someone sexuality. Many men flashy characters are just cis straight men, just as same as many can be lgbt. What you wears or what you hobbies mean nothing about your sexuality. Which goes with terms like Otomen for men who does stereotypically girly things. Or otoko no ko and Dansou for crossdressers/femboy/tomboy. By western side of view, most shonen characters are gay for wearing flashy clothing or having long hair when for Japan it's simply that, cool fancy clothing. Also long hair meaning more power. Or for exemple the saying for someone who is actually trans will be "I'm female/male by heart" or also the fact that it's easy to transition all the way in Japan but hard for people who don't want to do surgeries so many simply transition socially and people around them accept it. Because to have the ID card to say the gender you want to change, you have to change you have to suregerical transition. Bi characters who just says "I don't care about the gender", and those types of guys exist in many anime/manga. Or also, something that goes over people head too much is the lack of struggle in many BL. I mean, I'm black, if I want to see a thing about a black character, doesn't mean I want to see them spend their times struggling for nonsense things or talk about slavery or white supremacy like American media seems to like to do... I want to see successful and happy black characters that makes me happy and makes me want to be successful not someone complaining about it. Just like how for many gay from Asia, BL is a way to daydream and imagining themselves in a relation like that. Dismissing BL as female gaze is forgetting its root and how litteraly half of the writers are gay male. Just like how fujoshi mean a girl who is too rotten to be mariable. Which was use as an insult by male mangaka against women mangaka for publishing male oriented gay relationships, while the males mangaka where making p/rn of lesbian relationship seksualizing women which upset the females mangaka who decided to actually do the reverse whith actual plot in it (basically making shoujo with the girl replaced by a guy). The problematic r/p are thingy is actually something taken from shoujo manga. And even to this days you can find shoujo like this. Which is simply a problematic trope, that hopefully began to fade away and can only be found in pwp manga. Also the thing is that most japanese people don't care about other people relationship. It's will always be like "you gay? ok anyway". For exemple unlike Skorea who is a ver Conservative and religious Christian country or China who want any gay fiction to fall under the rug, celebrities or idols who are openly gay is a rare thing while for Japan many of them are open about that, not in a way in Western in which people present themselves with their sexuality but simply based on what they will like "I don't care about gender", "I'm more into guys" and such. And they will openly say yes when people ask them is they are they. sorry for my bad English.
hope you're doing alright. this channel was a huge inspiration for me as an artist and media critic and, even if it is dead for now, i'll still treasure it. thank you for all you did, sincerely
I feel that magical girl anime filled the same niche for young lesbians as Saturday cartoons did for young gays, seeing girls in their frilly outfits and armour probably made a lot of young girls feel a certain type of way ala He-man with young boys
I'm almost 40, and the most effective, DEEPLY, romantic thing I have ever seen is when Haruka asks Michiru not to go where she can't follow. They weren't the first, but they remain the standout.
Hey there! I don’t know if you use this platform anymore, but I wanted to tell you that your videos have meant a lot to me and I am very grateful that you chose to share your art and your thoughts with the world. I hope you have a happy new year, full of good things.
I subbed to this channel a few days ago because I loved your videos but upon checking your channel instead of watching whats recommended I was surprised to see this was from 8 months ago 😭 Whether you’re busy with life issues, just taking a break from UA-cam altogether, or even working on the next video as I speak, I hope you’re doing well!
Alternative outro; "And I just wanted to let you know, everything is going to be SO GAY 💖🌈" (Loved the episode and it really made me want to rewatch Sailor Moon!)
I watched Magical Girl Lyrical Nanoha and girl, it gets lesbian literally on episode 4. By the time season 3 rolls around, everyone and their dog familiars understands that Nanoha and Fate are in love with each other. Such is the legacy of the Magical Girl genre
To play devil advocate a bit, I feel a lot of authors, not all for sure, but quite a bit don't like outright confirming things in general. They want fans to discuss and debate, especially when it comes to relationships. So if i were to write a story of two people close to one another, and this relationship sparks a lot of interest in my story I wouldn't want to basically force my thoughts of what the relationship is onto other people. On the other hand, I certainly dislike how "Just Friends" or "Like Family" gets used to basically shut down any discussion, especially if I did intend there to be a romantic quality to a relationship.
I wanna see a magical girl duo where their magic is powered by their love. Like, good friendship is base level and fully reciprocated lifelong romance is God tier.
I mean, I'd say that both Madoka's god-like power and the things she is able to achieve thereof are the direct result of Homura's love for her. Homura is explicitly able to elevate herself above the system through the power of her love for Madoka. Gay magical girls are the most powerful, it is known.
@@brendowego Yeah, I get it. Maybe a magic system where different types of love that have different pros and cons could work to get that message across.
Homura and Madoka's relationship really means a lot to me. I really hope they have the courage to finish the franchise off with a happy and canonically queer ending. Either way I'm expecting to cry, a lot.
I actually do recommend Kira Kira Precure a la Mode to anyone who likes gay magical girls because it is pretty explicitly gay. There is a romantic love confession (two actually, from different sets of girls!), multiple episodes dedicated to their relationship, and official art has shown Chocolat and Macaron doing the Jupiter/Neptune pose which is exact down to the very last detail. The manga turns it up a notch with lots of literal romantic flirting that can't be interpreted as anything else. I guess the creator has never come out and said "they're gay" if that is the standard but it really is so gay that even Pretty Cure fandom wiki, which loves to Conveniently Not Mention any of the multitudes of gay subtext in the other seasons, even admits that it's romantic, lol.
honestly if Homura used the 'ai' verb towards Madoka no interview can undo that, that's not subtext that's just text~ love the video btw
Oh! Sweet hello lavender :0
@@meringue3288 ai is a noun for love. ai love has much of the ambiguity of english love but in the context it inplies an irrational romantic love.
aishiteru
means ai shiteru
ai means love. shiteru means doing
i am doing love or i love X
where X is already implied
AYO LAVENDERTOWNE HI
Hi, what a surprise seeing you!
Hi LavenderTowne, I really like your vids! :D
"The last episode has them tenderly embracing while naked in space."
Relationship goals
If you're relationship is so intense you're metaphorically naked in space with each other... it'd take a lot of explaining for me to not read overt romantic tones.
Why did I immediately know who it was talking about even before actually reaching this part in the video
Which is not gay btw
666
IKR
When it comes to imitating Madoka, I think it's important to recognize that being dark and gritty wasn't what made the show good. Being dark and gritty was what highlighted the things that made the show good. No matter how harshly the characters' love and hope were challenged, they were always treated with the utmost tenderness and empathy. And in the end, love wins. It's an ultimately hopeful experience, that not giving up on humanity is worth it.
It's a fairly good modern tradegy. Even if you consider the ending of the anime as "happy/hopeful" you still end up with Homura having suffered so much only to have gained very little in the end. The fact that Rebellion shifts to focus on Homura and highlight the profound impact her suffering had on her psyche is just a really great way to end off the arc.
@@Dualumina and we still have another movie in the way
I also love how Nora has a lot of extensive knowledge about anime! Now that is talent! :D
Thank you!!!! So many other dark magical girl shows are just soo gorey and edgy but don’t have an actual point for all the suffering
More a response to the first sentence of your statement, and people were saying how fresh and new it is, rather than a proper response to your statement:
To be fair, dark and edgy is kind of bringing the genre back to its roots, rather than trying to do anything new. That and constantly letting to shine a light at the end of the tunnel at the same time.
With such attractive friends, it's impossible not to be at least a little gay
fr
fr like i'm gonna at least give them a goodnight kiss like don't look at me like that
@@Vqmprr Rui pfp! :D
I've never seen a not extremely gay magical girl series, it comes with the territory.
Even Bewitched is deeply enmeshed with gay culture. I wish that Sabrina the Teenage Witch had some LGBTQ represntation. Maybe if Sabrina's roommate with a crush on Zelda was a "Mila" rather than "Myles".
@@kencoleman5007 I sadly know very little of either series, the last time I saw something that wasn't animated was years ago, haha
@@Kathbunny2 Sabrina started in '62 as a teen witch living with her witch aunts. 1964 gave us the TV series Bewitched (a series with so many LGBTQ connections that Matt Baume has a Culture Cruise video about it). Samantha Stevens was a witch housewife living among mortals, and the show is often credited as the IP that inspired Japanese Magic Girl properties. In 1970, Sabrina got her own comic series. In 1996, Archie, Melissa Joan Hart, and Melissa's mom gave us Sabrina the Teenage Witch (a live-action sitcom with lots of wordplay, huge guest stars, and epic fashion.
One of my recent favorites in the American live action "magic girl" pattern is Hallmark's Good Witch franchise about a matrimonial witch bloodline, the family thar Cassie Nightingale marries into and town that she becomes part of. Over the course of 7 films, 70 episodes, and 7 specials (presented like films), Cassie went from spooky outsider with an occult shop and superstrong intuition to an esteemed community member whose abilities become more pounced onscreen to the point where she performs divination with runes.
I had been waiting for some character on Good Witch to come out, and eventually, we got the lesb8an witch Joy (played by the bisexual Katherine Barrell). As she develops a relationship with a local firefighter, and they eventually get married, the characters and viewers were getting butterflies.
@@kencoleman5007 Oh cool! Thanks for explaining all that!
@@Kathbunny2 You're very welcome.
I think it’s funny that Disney goes around showing off their “first openly gay character” (that is entirely just queer-baiting) but haven’t said a single thing about their ACTUAL first openly gay relationship of luz and amity from the owl house, and instead decide to brush it under the rug and try to almost cancel the show early by only signing it on for 3 seasons
Would you recommend that show? Cause I did heard it got cancelled…
@@dollmaker6599 I would actual recommend watching it! It’s an amazing show and if you’re interested in magic, witches, and fantasy then it’s one of the many shows out there that are perfect for that subject.
Because Disney wants to make money in China.
which “openly gay character”
Disney tends to cancel a lot of shows during the 3rd season though.
Forget Madoka and Homura, Kyouko litreally died for Sayaka and Sayaka litreally told her she was the only thing she missed about Earth. Then they held hands tightly and tears fell from their eyes, like even my child brain went “oh they must be in love”
Then when Bebe interrupted them, Sayaka said she "ruined the moment".
@@tarniabook3076Exactly!
I think that was frim Movie 3?
@kuroyuu22 whatever movie "Rebellion" was
@@samsadowitz1724yea, its movie 3
Urubuchi doesn't know how to portray relationships, that's for sure, and it always ends in tragedy.
Madoka really said "I became god for my girlfriend"
Meanwhile *Homura:*
"I became a magical girl for Madoka"
@@kuroyuuep
Spoilers for "Rebellion"
also Homura: I became the devil for Madoka
@@samsadowitz1724 Yeah I've watched rebellion.
Also Homura:
"I've time traveled for 12 years to save Madoka just to be friendzoned at the end"
@@kuroyuuep that she did
That's good buddy
No joke, Madoka x Homura was my first positive sapphic representation as a very homophobic teen. I looked at their relationship, how Homura suffered for Madoka’s sake and her alone over and over again… and I just thought, “How can this be evil? How can this be wrong?” And that started a years long journey into discovering myself and realizing that I liked girls and accepting myself.
You sound like you got the most positive experience one could from that show
@@justsomeguyanimations I truly did
@@trevorendeavors7972 I just finished it and i am ruined LMAO
@@deletedkneecaps GOOD! LIE IN RUIN WITH ME!
As an ace, I appreciate the pure, innocent girl romance but I understand the frustration about it for non-aces. You all deserve more :(
also ace, i believe we all deserve more. i love headcanoning ace lesbians and saphhics myself
i think the frustrating part is that rather than genuine ace rep it is portrayed as "lesbian sex dirty" which is not fair for asexual people either
Yeah... that's a whole... oroboros of damned if you do, damned if you don't.
As an Ace myself (Aego specifically), I appreciate that there is representation for our fellow Aces in that "innocent girl romance" way, but I personally am with Nora in how frustratingly reductive the portrayal often is.
I don't mind pure, innocent girl romances if the aim is because they're asexual. It severely bothers me when their reasoning for making it pure and innocent is "this is for children we can't show anything more than innocence, then it's DIRTY". They truly attribute lesbian intimacy as dirty, even if it isn't inherently sexual.
@@cjadams9658 yessss
I'm legitimately shocked you made a whole essay on gay magical girls and didn't mention Nanoha even once. For 2007 (and hell, even now) it's actually insanely progressive to showcase the titular protagonist as a woman not only in a relationship with another woman, but having them be parents, and having characters comment on how it was uncommon to see a kid with two mothers (though it never came off as passive aggressive either).
you're expecting her to actually watch an anime that isn't utena, sailor moon, or madoka, that's a big ask. she went this entire video without even mentioning precure exists.
@@Everdistance yea this is a propaganda channel, Noraliti is so focused on making new lies,stereo types and inventing new minority groups that she had no time to watch anything other than extremely superficial synapses.
Nanoha may not necessarily be gay as she does like "that ferret".
Came to speak about Nano/Fate specifically, but you are a man of culture
@@FFX2KH2Master
Thank you, I try!🥲
I do not doubt you are similarly cultured.
Just as an aside: in Nanoha: Force, Subaru befriends a boy while hiking in a forest. So much for SubaruXTia.🤷
The Madoka Magica effect in Japan was similar to the Game of Thrones effect I saw here in America. Shows had to be dark and gritty, characters could get killed off at any moment, plenty of unnecessary raunchy scenes, etc. When something becomes wildly popular, everyone tries to mimic it and very few do it correctly because they focus on the wrong things. Writers thought people wanted dark and gritty magical girls, while completely overlooking what actually made MM good (other people have gotten into this so I won't). Similarly, writers thought GoT was good because of all the raunchy scenes along with killing off any character without a moments notice. Funnily, I think that's what the writers focused on in the final seasons of GoT, which is why everyone hated those seasons and the entire franchise basically exited mainstream culture.
Another issue is that the series was NOT Dark 100% of the time. They have the girls hanging out at school, arcades, etc. There's times for the Audience to Recover and there was ALWAYS Hope that things would work out somehow in the end.
But it's something that seems common EVERYWHERE. Not just Shows and Movies, but Video Games as well.
Every milestone creative work, especially ones that are very well received both critically and financially, inspire imposters like that. Like how RE4 was a monster success and spawned a generation of third-person shooters with mixed end results, or how every other new manga series we get is an isekai. Sometimes an idea just seems like it'll do well, but someone involved in the project didn't quite get WHAT worked about the original.
I’m really glad this video touched upon Madoka Magica’s influence on the magical girl genre, specifically in regards to the onslaught of “edgy” shows that came after it. While I do love the magical girl genre and so many shows in it, I had to take a break from watching newer shows simply because every new one that came out seemed all too desperate to copy Madoka and make the main girls suffer as much as possible. That’s not to say that these shows weren’t good, but it got old seeing show after show with the protagonists in constant states of pain and/or distress for just trying to be heroic
It's even worst when you consider that, beyond the melodrama, PMMM actually tried to exploit philosophical and religious themes, which its followers didn't seem to do. I mean seriously, if you watch Madoka under the scope of Buddhism, a lot of things make more sense, notable Rebellion.
I only recently watched Madoka and don't really follow the magical girl genre, but this doesn't surprise me as someone who was around when it first gained popularity. Unfortunately it's all too common for people to try and imitate something widely acclaimed without understanding why it worked as well as it did.
@@NIHIL_EGO That happens a lot, when a series makes waves a ton of others try to copy it without understanding the message or themes, leading to shallow imitations that only take the superficial elements.
Something that I also think other edgy madoka inspired shows miss is that the world of madoka is ultimately a world largely filled with decent people that are worth saving.
Even at the end of the original series when it’s reaching the darkest hour we still get scenes like Madoka’s dad playing with her little brother in the hurricane shelter and Madoka’s mom and teacher sharing drinks and supporting each other
I mean the worst human characters are Homura and Kyoko. Both of which went through insane levels of trauma.
Meanwhile the madoka ripoffs are filled with insane evil bullies and just utterly horrible authority figures making you question why the main girls are even trying to save anyone.
@@appelofdoom8211 I'd say that the two worst human characters are the two misogynistic men on the train who unknowingly participated in the birth of Okatavia and Uhrmann.
From what I’ve read, Japan has a version of the American “gay till graduation” concept that’s just much more widely accepted and even encouraged and considered a very pure and even spiritual type of love that goes beyond friendship but is expected to end when people reach adulthood and not be physical. That seems to align with the Takeuchi interview especially and the other one as well.
Yes Class S relationship.
Especially at all-girls schools.
@Jacks Ragingbileduct [I came up with this in the moment, please don't take it as gospel.]
The time limit is kind of integral, on rare occasions it's actually mentioned by someone that the feelings can't last forever or 'you're immature for still feeling that way.' The Gaze is romantic/sexual* _often._ Dramatic hand-holding, camera angles that make their lips look much closer than they really are.
Other than that though, it's just two people who are closer than friends being supportive.
I'm not familiar with bromance stuff, but I'm sure there's overlap.
*Yeah, even when it's explicitly not a sexual relationship the audience can still be shown the scene in a sexual way.
Yes thank you!
And would this still be considered queer baiting? Can’t we love our friends deeply without it being sexual?
24:51 "Why did you choose to portray a homosexual love?"
"A really strong friendship turns into a love-like relationship without the sexual attraction, in their case."
Key word: sexual.
I think the sexual aspect of the word "homosexual" is understated. I agree with the head-writer's answer, the two girls can love each other strongly without being in a sexual context. Which I appreciate as someone ace but still respect romantic love between females or anyone else. It's possible for one to love their friend so potently without wanting to have sex with them. I understand that homosexuality can refer to _attraction to the similar sex_ but it can also mean inclination to having sex with the similar sex, instead of the opposite/heterosexual way. I think the difference between romantic love, platonic love, and sexual love can be mistaken and unrealized at times. I just wanted to say it here since it's been bothering me that people still tend to miss it.
I agree with this to a degree, but also disagree with it. I think the 'sexual' part of the word 'homosexual' is actually very overstated, to the point where people hear it and assume gay or queer relationships are only ever sexual, and if they aren't, then they automatically aren't 'queer'. People associate homosexuality with sex more than they do that with heterosexuality (depsite both implying _sexual_ and romantic attraction in their definition), that isn't anything new. If someone asked if a male and female character in an anime who are heavily implied to have romantic/sexual feelings for each other _actually_ have those feelings, most writers would say yes, probably without hesitation, and without having to qualify that their love isn't only or in any way sexual. Because people are more willing to see straight love as _actually_ romantic and to acknowledge that it's actually happening on screen. That's usually assumed to include sexual attraction, but they aren't gonna boil down the whole relationship to that, or assume that's being done in a way where they have to confirm or deny if that is accurate. Whereas same gender relationships that are often heavily coded as romantic get the ambigous 'they just like each other very much!!!' answer. And that's the point - if it was really about people loving other people in deep non-sexual/non-romantic ways, it would be happening to potential straight couples just as much if not more than it happens to potential gay couples, because straight couples are already SO overrepresented in the media, we desperately need to see that men and women can care about each other deeply without wanting to fuck. But it doesn't does it? People usually bring out that answer then there's speculation about same gender pairings. It really _is_ just a fancy way of avoiding saying that the characters are gay, as opposed to a genuine desire to validate non-sexual or romantic love. Otherwise the romantic implications that exist in shows like Madoka wouldn't exist.
@@Lisa_Flowers I agree with you. But I ought to have clarified what I meant with the "sexual aspect of homosexual is understated". Your take on it is what I completely agree with, but I meant the _further understanding_ of the sexual aspect is downplayed or understated. As if there would be nothing more to the portrayed love than just sex, or just romance, or just friendship. As if the love isn't as complex as the humans involved in it. Whether it be the perceived or intended.
Your defense is more solid than mine, I believe. My bad for not expressing it well enough. I was more so emphasizing a love between two people who just happen to be the same sex as something unfocused, than two people of the same sex just happening to be in love.
that's not homosexual, that's homoromantic
This is what happens when (mostly sapphic) media accidentally create queerplatonic relationships for a queer couple for all the wrong reasons and not understanding what they have created...
so homoromantic?
Fun fact about Utena: In the Manga, Juri is not only painfully straight, but is obsessively in love with Touga. I'm so glad they changed her character for the anime, she's much more interesting as a stoic sapphic.
Thanks for clearing up the "horse chase" scene mystery for me. That sequence ONLY appears in the series opening, and isn't in the manga either, so I've always wondered where that concept even came from.
With Urobuchi's wording it does seem plausible he understood the question from the hyper-sexual point of view instead of romantic. Translations do matter and I remember some brazilians made a fuss about a trans character being misgendered by an american author when in reality it was the translator's fault. But who knows, maybe in a different interview someone might ask this question using japanese directly
Even with this in mind, I think anybody using it to disprove Homura's being in love with Madoka would be pretty ridiculous to me. Her love for Madoka is too big a part of her to ignore or even dismiss as being "totally just bestie things
@@tama3162 Shoot, I usually can see things both ways with this kind of stuff and...yeah, the only arguments I could see for Homura not being romantically in love with Madoka are 1) Homura being read as toxic and obsessive (which I'm pretty sure is how one of the voice actresses on the show reads her, but also acknowledging she could love her in a more healthy way) or 2) Homura's love transcends a human understanding of love, far beyond romantic, sexual, and possibly even a human understanding of spiritual or divine love. That seems to be how she sees it herself and that, to me, falls under she's super gay.
@@Slendysis I think I know which quote you're talking about 'cause I've also seen a clip of the original line read for Homura's confession of love for Madoka, and how her VA redid it because the first take made her come off as "too much of a yandere."
Either way, both options read to me as super duper gay, yeah. In an obsessive, possessive context, that's like, textbook predatory gay trope writing. I don’t think Homura is another case of Predatory Lesbians; I just mean that whenever there was a character obsessed with another, to even half the degree that Homura is dedicated to Madoka, them being gay was never a question (mostly because they were a villain and their gayness was presented as being overtly wrong and being forced onto their assumed straight object of their affections).
And seeing your love for another as a religious experience, almost? That's also becoming another tool in the gay subtext toolkit, I swear to God Himself 😤
@@tama3162 Historians say they were just 'really good friends'.
OH I just remembered something!!
I wish I could find this post again, but I read somewhere that in Japan, lesbians aren't really viewed as "real lesbians" unless they're out and out fucking. Even kissing and being intimate in ways _apart_ from sex can be handwaved away, and I wouldn't be surprised if Class S had something to do with that. Y'know, the idea that romantic love between girls is "just them practicing for their inevitable husband."
Urobuchi probably doesn't see Homura's love for Madoka as strictly homosexual because he could be caught in this mindset. It's still ridiculous to me but gives Urobuchi's statement more context.
Recently watched Adolescence of Utena and the fact that Utena is straight up wearing a binder in that is IMPRESSIVE, and a good indicator of juuust how gay it really gets. I can name the amount of series that I've seen a binder in on one finger; two if I count my own writing.
Thanks for this video, it was incredible!
Holy smokes batman, Your right. Thank you for sharing this I totally missed that when I watched it back in Highschool and my mind is blown. I can think of I think a few more instances but there in manga and unless I go back and reread them I can't confirm but yea. My little enby heart is so happy I need to go back and rewatch the movie it's been too long.
She's wearing like a big file folder?
@@akale2620 a chest binder
@@starbournehero771 like the one warrior female use to flatten tits so they can move better?
@@akale2620 A binder, as in a chest compression thing for trans men and those who have boobs and would rather not.
Your videos comforted me through some bad times. I truly hope you’re safe and healthy. I miss your content 🧡
I sincerely hope you're not dead and it's just a long gap between videos. Only just discovered your videos and I love your discussions, and queer analysis which is such high quality. Would love to see more of your work after I've binged most of your channel... Hope all is well.
Came here to say basically the same thing. Love and support from all of us!
Same! Noralities legitimately quickly became one of my favorite essayists ever. I hope they’re okay, ideally thriving with work they enjoy. ❤
I really hope they post another video
I also came here to say this! As a queer woman, I never really feel heard or understood when watching critiques about the medium. Her videos have voiced a lot of the things I enjoy about certain shows or find issue with in others.
I'm a straight guy but I've always appreciated Magical Girls shows like Sailor moon and Cardcaptor Sakura since I was a kid for themes of friendship and expressing emotions😊
Ain't enough shows showing that it's ok for duderinos like us to express ourselves emotionally. Only watched a little but that little bit could've had a huge impact on me for all I know
Cardcaptor Sakura is Clear Diamond! Best Magical Girl series in my opinion.
That's so sweet. Glad you enjoyed them.
Not that surprising that a straight guy would watch it & enjoy it. It would be *MUCH MORE* surprising if you were a gay guy considering that such ones that watch anime tend to only watch stuff like Dragon Ball Z because they want to avoid all the girly stuff that is usually associated with gays by straight people.
@@antoinette... thank you😊
I legit thought girls were just magic as a young boy, kinda glad I grew up a nerd and was exposed to this trope in anime, it taught me empathy and culture
my younger sister loved it and I’m sure was a big part in discovering and expressing herself
You as a child watching a show where a group of teenage girls absolutely pummel monsters with the power of rainbows: “Ah. I guess that’s just a thing girls do sometimes.”
I mean, technically you can’t prove that we don’t.
@@Anti-Gravity. I’m middle aged dad now, still checks out. Explains everything really.
As a bisexual girl Utena hit me hard. Her wanting to be a prince, her love interest for both Anthy and her brother blew me away. The whole story was so woven so deeply and tragic. Madoka was the same way. It told me all lot about myself ❤
It's been almost a year since Noralities last video. Whatever she's doing now, I hope they're ok
me too. over a year now. i miss her content.
I only just found them, and absolutely love their work. Hope they come back soon and are safe!
I believe the reason magical girls are so appealing to a large portion of the Lgbt people [being one myself] is given the many hardships one goes through from childhood to adulthood, the idea of being able to transform yourself into a more powerfull self is extremely appealing.
unless its a bussiness like madoka[dont talk to white alien foxes pls]
A major issue with the demographics is that here in the US, anime is so strongly viewed as masculine (to the point of men screaming about anime that don't cater to them) that josei almost never gets considered for import
Why would an anime genre that’s mostly about groups of cute girls not cater to men? Who the hell doesn’t like magical girls?
@@hcsnakeexactly hell why would any country or audience worry about how "masculine" or "feminine" something is? I watch various anime that could considered in either camp because I am deciding not to care
@@Friendly_Neigborhood_Astolfo Same, that's the only proper attitude to art imo, everything else is just clueless. I hate the fact that some people even want to acknowledge that division.
@@hcsnake our ideas of masculinity and femininity are so screwy they are essentially just basic human behavior
@@Friendly_Neigborhood_Astolfo The thing that annoys me the most is that normie assumption that guys won't like things that are more feminine (as like, shojo anime for example). Like... aren't you guys all about liking girls? lol
Cutie Honey, the first 'Magical Girl Warrior', is also worth mentioning, since her manga confirmed that she's bisexual, and her series had girls crushing on her as much as guys. Honey's admittedly an edge-case when it comes to MGs, but Toei does officially consider her a Magical Girl and she was one of Sailor Moon's inspirations
Edit: One of the main influences on early Magical Girl shows was Bewitched, which has frequently been read as a gay allegory and having had several gay actors, the show's creators acknowledged and ran with the allegory. Matt Baume has a video all about this
i was looking for the cutie honey reference somewhere and was surprised it wasnt mentioned.
Cutie honey is one of my favorite animes and I would say \it was gay ASF
Heavily appreciative that you touched on how Yuri suffers from both ends or the spectrum. Male gaze AND overly pure. Way too many people over look the harm of straight people viewing all lesbian relationships as overly innocent and devoid of sexual desire
it's kinda rooted into the thankfully fading belief that a girl that isn't a "sick slut" doesn't enjoy sex a lot. legit growing up i was told sex was a male thing, something that women put up with cause THEY like it. also since "there's no pp how do they sex huh??"
people really need to be educated on this stuff
@@margheritasalvatore5620 It pretty much explains why most gay stuff is just p***. Like that's what 80% of it is. Even then, the 20% of that stuff is either aimed towards girls or furry material. Want something that ISN'T furry nor aimed towards girls nor the nudity stuff, then you'll more than likely have to scour the internet for like 15 days just to find one.
@@margheritasalvatore5620 i was told the exact same thing lol
as a dude i am annoyed by the amount of pandering in the market i like brainless yuri ocasionally but i want there to be some actual stories the issue is that requires companies to hire skilled authors instead of mass producing cookie cutter "romantic parodies"
Honestly I'm kinda moving away from the highschool setting all together to the work life setting which feels more mature and past the "lesbian love will fade away when you grow up" or meant as male gaze (to put it lightly).
Kumihiko Ikuhara seething over the invincibility of Tuxedo Mask and his busted romantic plotlines is way funnier than it has any right to be
I'll be always sad Mamoru's powers were never shown in the anime, he was basically turned into a running gag instead of a character. Although in the later seasons he was more of a "damsel in distress", which is a sliiiiight improvement.
No wonder why some people gravitate more towards shipping Usagi and Seiya rather than having Tuxedo Mask in the picture! Heck, some people even forgot his name! It's fricking Mamoru CHiba for crying out loud! LMAO
@@Nadia1989 Tuxedo Mask just isn't a good character. He's just usagis love interest and nothing more
I also love how Nora censored the word, "fuck" with Yoshi's tongue sound effect! Yet, "fuck" is still audible past that censor! What would happen if it was censored? Would she get "demonetized" for saying a "naughty" word? LMAO
@@sirmoony5633 seiya literally never respected Usagi’s boundaries, forced themselves on her even after usagi made it VERY clear she wasn’t interested, lied to their entire school they were dating, stalked her, tried to ruin her and mamoru’s relationship and forced a kiss on her, how is that better compared to the actual love Usagi and Mamoru have 💀
Have to admit, Japan still has a relatively conservative cultural environment. Most developers of movie/game/literature in Japan will say "probably" or "it's up to your interpretation" in order to not offend the wide spectrum of audiences (or put their carrier in danger if they offend their investors). But they know exactly what they are presenting on screen. Same goes with Witch of Mercury
I miss your videos, please come back.
The Madoka thing is so upsetting, I just watched it for the first time this year and interpreted her and Homura as obviously loving each other. It's comforting to know a lot of fans are on the same page at least.
In regards to Madoka and Homura's ambiguously sapphic feelings for each other, almost a decade has past since Rebellion came out, which is a long time in Internet years, so hopefully feelings toward queer people in Japan have changed enough since then that Madoka and Homura's relationship can finally be confirmed as romantic (or not, but I hope for the former). I'm noticing a lot more positive and unambiguous queer representation in anime that came out since then compared to beforehand, with some of those anime being fairly popular and successful (notably Yuri On Ice), so hopefully the creators also notice this and seriously consider the idea.
Honestly I think Noralities is kind of miscontruing what Urobuchi said about Madoka. His response was most likely a defensive for Madoka Magica due to how much negative press an extremely popular series would be if he openly said that the two leads are gay. Everyone in the madoka community will understand Homura and Madoka as gay, but keeping hardcore homophobic conservative Japanese politicians, journalists, and media away from the Madoka community is a good thing. I believe he said it specifically to keep negative press away.
You can say lesbian.
@@ShinigamiRyan you can also say Sapphic.
@@jackgebhardt2932 Lesbians exist. Accept it.
@@ShinigamiRyan Yeah, they're the same thing.
That line at the 28 minute mark about how it is easy for a heterosexual romance to be depicted as love but it takes a lot more effort to show a homosexual romance as love is actually why, as a heterosexual, I greatly appreciate homosexual romance stories. Because they are simply better as stories. The romance isn't easy. Becoming convinced that the other person really loves them isn't easy. Homosexual romance is forced to be far more drawn out than heterosexual romance, and so much depiction of heterosexual romance is just two good looking people thrown together without a care for whether it would really work. That said, I hope you get your representation, but I do hope that heterosexual romances can learn from that tension and anxiety and exhilaration I have seen in homosexual romances.
I hope you're doing safe and ok. It's unusually more than 8 months of absence... You're a very potential anituber/content creator on this platform and I really love your videos.
Hope to see you back soon 🤞🏻
Oh. Growing up I never realized that the "girl admiring the other girl" in [insert manga here] was because of romantic interest... 🙈 I just thought it was, you know, a girl admiring a girl because she's totally cool and dandy. Like I did. 🤦🏻♀️ Insert queer screaming here please. Thank you. 🤙
Yeah I thought the same too... about myself. Surprise surprise, when I got older and starting look back at my past "friend-crushes" where I idolized a girl and wanted more than anything to be closer to her and felt nervous and excited anytime I talked to her... that might have actually been a tad gay.
People only call it gay because of wishful thinking.
Me too, until i watched sailor moon crystal as an adult and saw usagi making literal heart eyes at sailor mars and leave the bus after her even tho it was not her stop. I was like " dude, mamoru, my guy , i think your future wife is lesbian "
what is the name for the attraction that is attraction of hero worship? or is it just called heroworship? the divide of "i like so and so or do i want to be them?"
Actually it's can be both ways, she can be in love with the other girl or see her as big sister or role model (NOTE, if you in Incest, you need to go to Jail because that is disgusting.), so for me it can be both ways.
Long story short: because nothing's better than a literal lesbian power couple
Also; you did not just put Heaven Official's Blessing in there for a split second!!! I love it so much!!!
I know right! It was so cute I wanted more of them
@@micahlazo8011 yo if you want more, there's a whole ass novel and manhua adaptation, both of which are pretty dope
Yeah!!! And oh I love HOB
@@gingganggoolie The art in the manhua is absolutely phenomenal
@@epicthy I am always thinking about the loving detail given to Xie Lian's toes
I hope you're doing ok! Your videos are great!
Just wanted to say that I miss you, Noralities. I’m sorry people can be such pieces of shit. Hope you’re taking care of yourself and living your best life. ❤
I remember playing Magia record (the Madoka gacha game) and it was always easy to tell when urobuchi was writing the story because Sayaka and Kyouko would suddenly be in a lot of scenes together and and have lots of moments declaring how much they like the other whereas basically any other writer split them up and focused on Sayaka like Kyousuke. It’s honestly really weird seeing people try to process Madoka characters in a heterosexual way.
We also got our first confirmed lesbian in a cast of almost 100 magical girls so yay!… still waiting on number 2
I remember when RikaRen had a rerun and the magireco discord server was like: yes, the gays are back in town
@@mndy129 didn’t Rika straight up say in her story that she “likes girls”? And not in the platonic sense, I’m pretty sure her wish had to do with a girl she had a crush on but decided to make end up with the guy she was already going out with. (I think my memory of her story is a little fuzzy)
@@vulpiixfoxx yeah I think that how it goes
...What about Uranus and Neptune, or the entire cast of Utena? Pretty sure you can't get any more explicitly gay than that.
Sayaka has always like kyosuke tho. And no, Urubochi takes no part in magireco
My theory on "probably"
Homura is 100% a lesbian who is in love with Madoka. Madoka on the other hand... calls Homura her "very best friend" so I would say it's potentially unrequited. But also potentially not. Who knows? On the other hand, Sayaka literally choosing to come back from the dead because she misses Kyoko and says "I had one regret. You. I missed YOU" and holding Kyoko's hand is incredibly gay. And while in the series proper she liked Kyosuke, in Rebellion at the beginning Kyoko even comments on how Sayaka has gotten over him. It's pretty clear Sayaka and Kyoko are at least in love. Homura loves Madoka, and Madoka... might? love Homura. Note how there are also a lot of semi-canon stories as well. Tart Magica, Kazumi Magica, Oriko Magica, etc. Almost all of them are accepted as pretty much canon. All except one. There is one SINGLE spinoff that every single Madoka Magica fan agrees shouldn't count as semi-canon, and that's "Mami Tomoe's Everyday Life" in which... Everyone is straight, and Homura married Madoka's younger brother Tatsuya so she could technically be family with Madoka???? Every English-speaking Madoka Magica fan I know rejects this as semi-canon. And don't even get me STARTED on how wrong the age difference between Homura and Tatsuya is, that's like the easiest thing to unpack out of everything wrong with what I just said. I imagine if they didn't draw Mami how they did (just look up the cover art of the volumes and you'll understand) I don't know if this sell as well as it apparently does according to the wiki.
Or Gen Urobuchi said probably just to mess with people, or as a way to say "I want to say yes and everyone who has seen the show knows it, but I legally need to provide an out just in case of homophobia costing me my job" but obviously I'm making this up and have no idea what he was actually thinking.
AND THEN THERE'S MAGIA RECORD, but it's about time I shut up.
Taking Urobuchi's "Probably" as anything more than him trolling is a mistake imo. Lying to interviewers' faces is one of Gen's most closely held hobbies. Remember "I want to be known as a healing-type author"?
@@andrewcapra7153 Look man, I'm allowed to live in denial if I want to. Just because you're right doesn't mean I want to admit it, lol.
@@andrewcapra7153 urobochi knows everyone just wants the lesbian tragedy to end in a sapphic fantasy but that fucker will be dragging this tragedy trough the fucking gutter for as long as possible
If I had a dollar for every person with a seething hatred of Mami's Everyday Life, I'd be a fucking millionaire. Like, even the people who don't hate it will admit that it isn't that good to begin with because the comedy just sucks ass. Hell, IIRC, the author didn't even watch the entire anime before making the damn thing.
@@darkbeetlebot only good thing about that series is the cover art. And unrelated, Magia Record has gotten even GAYER since I left that last comment, so that's nice.
It's been a long time, and other commenters have sent comments too, so I wanted to let you know that I miss you and your content. I'm a huge fan, and I look forward to your next release, whenever it comes out. I hope you're doing okay and taking care of yourself.
Sigh,,,we miss you Noralities
Being a Bi guy, magical girl anime were my first experience in 'Hey same gender can be interested in each other'. That was pretty big.
Sailor Moon blazed a trail.
And I literally wrote poetry about Tomoyo's unrequited love...
I lowkey want to read your poems now
@@genesisofthebetween +1
@@genesisofthebetween ... aw that's kinda sweet. I think it's still posted on Deviant art under this same name.
Tbh as a gay guy I relate to the struggle of people who fetishize creating most of the genre that show the minority you are a part of, and yaoi and bara aren't as cleanly separated as you make it sound.
Many yaoi are very respectfully written and not only fetishizing and bara works can be just as fetishizing just not through the female gaze, it is frustrating having masc for masc works that are in high amount eye candy being the majority in respectful works
They also aren't separate and these terms are outdated and can even be offensive! Both fall under the genre of 'BL', and a LOT of 'female' BL authors tend to infact be LGBT+ men using female pen names to protect their identities.
The false narrative comes from the root of the genre being in mainly girls pioneering it.
@@mariefurukawa2627 I knew there must be male Asian BL artists too but often we hear only the female names doing it. I wish the male Asian BL artists would make themselves known while hiding their true identity if they wish but at least let the audience know they are male and lgbt+. I know western BL artists are more open about their identities even when they are male or gender nonconforming which is great as the audience can understand the experience of the author and hence the story they make.
Really! I feel like many yaoi aren't respectfully written, a few yes but not many. Is there some you would recommend? I guess some forms of works can seem too sexual for some of us readers. I personally am okay with reading stories with sex scenes but I would prefer a complex story with good romance development in it.
I feel the same as Sunny V! I'm new to the genre and i'm having a hard time finding good reccomendations because honestly a lot of the ones I find are pretty ghastly, not just in their rep of gay men but also just with issues of consent, power differentials, or (illegal) age differences. I would love reccomendations that _aren't_ that lol
@@Lisa_Flowers i love mxtx's books, you may want to give them a try. mdzs is a little kinky in the extra chapters but it's like. kinky sex dreams between two consenting married adults so it's nowhere near as uncomfortable as many queer media. and even though her books are classified as BL her female characters are good, all characters are heartfelt.
i hope you are doing alright! i see there is a HUGE gap between videos and I'm just hoping that you are just taking a break instead of being gone forever. i really love your content and like to binge them for days and i think this is honestly the 10th time I've fully rewatched this one video. and if you never post again there will be a hole in anime yt where you were, because your personal views and opinions especially on lgbtq topics are really appreciated and needed . i know this comment is probably grammatical hell to read but i just wanted to say that you are appreciated by so many for speaking about things with so much knowledge and research put behind it.
i hope you have a good day/many days
I miss your your uploads and I hope you're okay 🤍
As someone who grew up in the era where shows had even the barest hint of LGBT themes wiped clean from them, I'm very happy that studios are more accepting of such groups nowadays 😊
That wasn't studio, that was all american broadcasts.
Remember, Uranus and Neptune are just really close cousins.
“Magical girls are super fucking gay”
Best quote ever.
I just found a new amazing UA-camr and I'm so sad to see she hasn't posted in over a year! This channel is amazing
Been a while since your last video… hope you’re doing well and can’t wait till your next one!!! ❤️
Same. 🧡
Not same glad is gone
@@Goddog777you’re obsessive, go away
@@rubanka6373 "Obsessive" is when you make one comment expressing joy. Just righteous.
@@michealthrowaway2122 Nah, bro’s in other posts asking where Nora went and is saying the same in all of them. Not exactly helpful for anyone who looks at the comments to figure out why there have been no new videos. I mean, if he’s happy she’s gone, why is he stalking her last video over a year after it was posted? Just to make sure anyone who asks about her knows that he personally hates her? Seems obsessive.
There is NOTHING heterosexual about MadokaXHomura.
They are just very good friends.
They’re kids. Infintely immortal god kids, sure. But are they really old enough to know what a homosexual relationship is, aside from a deep friendship? Does it *need* to be more than that?
@@maxspecs honestly, would you say the same if one of them was a boy? What does it change that they're both girls? The show doesn't even hint at anything sexual if that's what you're concerned about.
@@m00nl1ghtj3w3l Gender’s got nothing to do with it! This is about sexuality, something that doesn’t even properly register in most kids until their mid teens, and others until their late 20s.
@@maxspecs oh do I have some news for you, it is exactly about gender as sexuality... is literally about what gender you're attracted to. A LOT of (straight) romance anime feature protagonists around the same age of Madoka and Homura and no one really bats an eye.
Also, a 14 y.o does know what sexuality is. I myself started questioning my identity around that age. One could argue that they are not mature enough to pursue a relationship at that time, but it's not like being homosexual is such a wild concept even then.
I’m not gonna lie, I’m a bit surprised Revue Starlight wasn’t talked about because that’s an interesting case of “not explicitly gay but at the same time it can very easily be assumed” considering it’s a criticism of Takarazuka (which is indeed a very gay industry) and how the relationships of the girls and women are affected by its systems and idk there’s a lot that I wanna say about it that can’t be expressed in a simple UA-cam comment but I will say that at least I feel it’s a rare and interesting case at the same time though I’m not sure how much of a magical girl anime it is, because they’re technically just acting? Either way, it’s very much claimed by the sapphic community and I highly recommend a watch of it if you haven’t already
Seconded. Like, yes, I don't think Toppy has explicitely said that "they are gay", but like... each couple in the show isn't even subtle. Claire and Flora are described basically as "soulmate" and Hikari/Karen embody them and people have to be quite blind to miss Mahiru's romantic feelings for Karen.
Maya and Claudine are literally and honestly as gay as it can get (dunno if you have seen the movie so SPOILERS but basically all of their revue truly looks like a huge wedding metaphor, coupled with the original title of the song having "a song about love?" in it).
Junnana, while my favorite, is a bit more complicated to determine, but they have their truly strong moments as well both in the anime and other attached medias (manga/RElive).
Futakao has truly this strong relationship where they, honestly, seem like an already married couple (SPOILERS again for the movie, but their revue was described by Furukawa as "a lover's quarrel in the Showa Era between a man and a woman, with the man expressing his selfishness for the first time"... kinda strong and explicit as a description). Not to mention Kaoroku being jealous of Futaba hanging out with other girls in the anime, manga and it's even brought up again in the movie.
Thing is, as you said, it doesn't fit the 100% magical girl genre to a T, but admittedly, with Utena being mentioned as well and not completely being comforming to the "og" majokko genre, I would say Revue can still fit in.
Also, Kageki Shoujo, which is also about takarazuka, is not a magical girl neither yuri story, but dips its toes in sapphic themes too.
@@noemi9088 WAIT! Two of the characters names are "Maya" and ""Claudine?"
That's like OLD SCHOOL YURI. I'm talking 1970's Era. That is not subtle at all!
@@ArcaJ OOH, is it? Tell me more :D
And yes, two of the characters (and dare I say, they form the most popular ship in the fandom) are named Maya and Claudine ❤
@@noemi9088 Just stumbled on this comment pretty late, but in case you see it: there was a manga called Claudine in the 1970s, by Ikeda Riyoko, the creator of the famous manga Rose of Versailles and Oniisama E. The title character, Claudine, was either a crossdressing butch lesbian or a trans man (it's never made completely clear, as you might expect from the era), and her(/his) first love was a servant girl named Maya.
I hope you're okay norie! I think about your videos, particularly your moomin and kiki ones, a lot. they bring me so much confort
I am probably just a waterdrop in a sea of other comments that are similar but, I love your content. I hope you are ok wherever you are and are comfortable. I miss your video essays
I may be wrong on this, but I think the interview where Gen Urobuchi said Homura was "probably" in love with Madoka came out before Rebellion. Given how Rebellion unambiguously confirmed Homura's romantic love for Madoka, I assume he either changed his mind or didn't want to give too much away. I can't actually find the interview again to confirm this.
I think (AND THIS IS A VERY BIG “I THINK”) I found a link to said interview…and the video was posted on in August…while Rebellion, from what I researched came out around October…so if it is true the interview came before the movie, I could definitely see this as Gen dancing around the wording to not spoil anything.
And plus, now that I think of it…I can’t really say Homura and Madoka are in love…while yes undoubtedly Homura probably loves Madoka in the romantic sense, Madoka may not love Homura the same way…I mean of course she still loves Homura, but she straight up friendzones her by referring to her as her “very best friend”. So while I can say they do love each other in a way…but if someone were to ask me if they loved each other equally enough to be in relationship I would probably kinda have to say the same thing Gen said, “probably.”
Ok little edit: Rebellion premiered to Japanese audiences in October while USA got it in December….I think…
Ooooh! That would make sense
heya just jumping in to confirm that the interview panel was held a few months prior to the release of rebellion, on the 27th of july in 2013
@@sayakaaaa3261 huh, so then it definitely makes sense why he said that, to avoid spoiling it.
@@vulpiixfoxx Hi
really love your interpretation on how the magical girl is similar to the queer experience! I've always seen the transformation into the magical girl as them becoming their "ideal" or "true" self, so putting it in the context of queerness makes so much sense. Especially since, as you said, many magical girls hide this "other" self from people close to them due to fear of being discovered. great video!! :)
i miss you noralities :((( return from war safely
Hey, hope you're okay. It's been a while, you were the best anituber. Hope you one day come back.
as someone who's so tired of seeing yaoi deal with the same issue (women writing gay romances about men), I can tell you I relate to how painful this lack of true representation is. I really hope one day we'll see more yuri works written by women for women. Best wishes, thanks for making such a great video on the subject.
There is plenty of yuri written by women. Class S and yuri were pioneered by women. The thing is anime studios rarely adapt the good stuff; and yuri-only magazines keep dying out which is probably one of the reasons yuri manga are all over the place demographic-wise.
Tbh
I've heard and seen queer people and lesbian women like yaoi
But I've actually agreed with people being tired of the cliches of yaoi and it's painfully used heteronormative tropes
@@yiwoon_cr8s Well the thing is that Boy's love and Danmei and Xianxia titles are mostly written by women for women. And that can cause trouble. But yeah, it can be complex.
Actually, gay romances are written also by gay men, and can have the same troubles as if they were written by women.
Maybe we should stop treating homosexual romance as something separated from romance? Toxic relationship dynamic happens in both.
@@kiriki4558 No way?!? Next your going to tell me that lesbians have written lesbian romances too? /s
Maybe you should take your own advice, instead of making excuses.
saying crap like "Toxic relationship dynamic happens in both" and "stop treating homosexual romance as something separated from romance"
As if the majority of yaoi/bl isn't fetishized by women.
As if there isn't an imbalance of heteronormative crap in yaoi/bl.
As if there there aren't gay men who
As if mlm people have crap that caters to them like straight people do.
Whether you like it or not,
People have been treating homosexual romance as something separated from romance in yaoi/bl, And even in real life, for decades.
And unless people start acknowledge it. Nothings going to change about it.
All that going to happen is people like you shifting the focus onto the small amount of gay people who make shitty romances that are gay.
Instead of the large amount of women (regardless of their sexuality) who make shitty romances that are gay.
Side note: LOTR has always had queer readings since it was released in 1950s, even a gay author from that time who I can't remember at this time, loved it and became great friends with Tolkien. This is a great video.
I think that tolkien was gay and was very ashamed of it.
Awesome
The gay friend you're thinking of is probably WH Auden. I think Tolkien isn't *as* bad at writing good female characters as this video says, but I can see why, especially from the movies, he seems that way.
@@ealusaid either that or the mans very homoerotic who knows
Damn this video is already over a year old. Come back to us Noralities 😭😭😭💔💔💔 Your style of video essay and topics of discussion are too good to just abandon! You have literally THE best anime videos on youtube next to Hazel, Mother's Basement, Kaiser Beams and Super Eyepatch Wolf! I will patiently await your return. Please god, I hope you come back 🙏
As you said "everything is going to be okay", i literally burst in tears. Thank you. It is a very strong note to end a video on!
The way I've seen it from a writing and marketing standpoint is while lesbian representation is direly wanted in media and is feasible it has to fight through not the stigma of being gay, but the potential loss of not being marketeable to boys. This is especially true in japan where your shows success depends on waifu material, so you get something like bakemonogatari where a tomboy girl says shes a lesbian for the mc's girlfriend, but then later starts getting kinky with him because he's the self insert.
It ends up with no yuri being no money loss, a little getting more money, but anything explicit can be a potential loss in marketeability. Western animation doesn't have this because they don't have to sell the same way anime does, and western studios are full of lgbtq creators and have the power to make what they want with more creative power over time.
I just don't think that is particularly true, if anything I've seen a lot of claims that the reverse is the case: Having an actual male love interest (even the blank-slate) is threatening to the waifu-status.
@@emilsoderman3691 That's a fair point but I think that in that case, the male viewer is just taking the place of the MC. A lot of anime market themselves by having cute likeable female characters, and said female characters are single, meaning they're available (hypothetically) to the viewer, but that availability fantasy is going to sink hard if she's not straight. Even male anime fans know that being lesbian means no chance for you.
I guess the main thrust is that if there's going to be more representation of lesbians in anime it has to win in the numbers game against a straight audience or has to be made by someone who wants to write that story.
@@khimeraQ That's my point, the availibility fantasy doesen't sink unless she is explicitly in a lesbian relationship. So the queerbaity-but-never-confirmed relationship is the ultimate "don't alienate anyone" formula. (except people who want an actual relationship in their stories)
@@emilsoderman3691 Agreed. We are on the same page about this.
Well yes and no. A lot of those are not even yuribait. They are waifu bait, the yuri part is just shoehorned in to make a harem feasible.
I agree with Emil. Having a blank slate male is still a detriment. That's why cgdct has so much yuri elements.
Removing the male completely is the better option.
I don’t know why, but I got the chills when you said “Everything is going to be okay.” /pos
Thank you so much for making these videos!! Keep up the good work!
@ᗜˬᗜ True!
The first queer character in Sailor Moon is Sailor Moon herself, openly bisexual since she declared she could forgive everything to a girl as beautiful as Rei.
So true and also so brave. Thank you for saying this. People forgot about our bisexual non-monogamous ADHD queen Usagi. 💖
@@SamRandolphhow is usagi non monogamous?
@@theemanuella9456 with the way that she's always expressing in multiple guys (or girls) at the same time, it sure seems like it to me
COME BACK QUEEN WE NEED YOU
LITERALLY
Before I get deeper into the video, I just wanna say that your dad was AWESOME for diving into the early interbutt for fansubs just because his daughter liked anime.
You did miss one very important LGBT reading into magical girls, specifically a parallel between early "Class S" literature and early Magical Girls. In both "Class S" literature and early magical girl stories, the protagonists "grow out of it." For instance, the first season of the Sailor Moon anime (because of course this wound its way into Sailor Moon as all things Magical Girl do) had all the girls forget being magical girls at the end of the season, before season 2 was greenlit. And Sailor Moon was one of the first where...the main characters DON'T "just grow out of it." They pick it back up and go back to fighting.
I could rant about Madoka Magica for days, especially about Rebellion. But...I won't because there's too much vitriol there for me. I call Madoka "The Evangelion of Magical Girl shows" for a reason.
“The Evangelion of Magical Girl Shows” is probably the best metaphor to describe the comparison between Madoka Magica and other magical girl series. They are so similar, down to the “do a collab with the battle cats” part lol.
Yuki Yuna is a hero is more the Evangelion due to the theme but yeah, due to the influence Madoka will be too.
I kinda thought the opposite, actually. Like, anime piracy on that scale is not something I can ever agree with.
I'd like to point out that Kill la Kill is very explicitly gay. Along with the subtextual relationship between Satsuki and Nonon, Ryuko and Mako kiss and go on a date.
Satsuki has a visually obvious bond with Gamagori, considering the facts of their power positions, and the designs of their uniforms after the transformations.
The relationship between Ryuko and Mako is gay af, that's undeniable even watching the little details in their interactions. Also, considering that Kill la Kill is based in Cutey Honey, it makes sense that they have something lesbian, just like Honey and Natsuko.
It's soooo wreid to me, seeing so many people shipping Mako with Gamagori. It's like they didn't pay any attention to the story.
@@juliagarcia8054 Nonon is the one who has known Satsuko the longest. She brags a few times about how close she and Satsuki are. Satsuki even teases her back once when they're flying over Osaka. It's not in the anime, but in some official artwork, Nonon is shown looking lovingly at Satsuki. I can link that art if you want.
Despite this, I despise the direction the series took. I definitely prefer Little Witch Academia than KLK
Whether or not you ever come back to UA-cam,
thanks for all your work,
I hope you're okay.
I remember the controversies back in the day and I wish they were approached with more nuance or at least acknowledgement that people can change their stances. Hope you're doing okay, no idea what happened in the interim.
what were the controversies?
@@BBrideley She did videos about "hey s*xualizing under age characters is weird" re: lolicon and whatnot. Not really bad takes but the anime fanboy proshipper crowd didn't like them and went digging for receipts, found that when she was younger (earlier20s?) she had drawn risque baku/deku art. Those characters are teenagers.
Which... she had obviously stopped doing, deleted before she started her video essay thing but you know how internet archive weirdos are. Unfortunately acknowledging "yep drew it, dont stand by it anymore" is hard because one side is absolutionist "you did it in the first place at all, p*do apologist", the other will smug out about how you're a hypocrite. which is exactly what happened with the latter and counter-responsive video essays.
like I shouldn't have to say a teens-to-20s woman relating to muscular anime dudes enough to draw them kiss is gonna be a different ballpark from venting about "mineta and kanna are weird and scenes where the girls/women don't get agency are uncomfortable". some people do the aged-up rhetoric for drawing vs studio heads explicitly writing the highschoolers into those scenes if you get me.
there's room for grey area, changing perspectives and one thing feeling okay at the time but not another. But people are absolutionist to the point the word shotacon was thrown around or they thought her going 'i simp for hanako-kun' in jest meant like, the character and not the anime. :|
She never acknowledged it and whilst I don't blame her it emboldened some people to be all "aha! obviously she is burying it because hypocrite!" instead of taking into account "guys there's like no roadmap for how to talk about this that doesn't just draw more attention to it". She did more positive bubbly reviews for a while but the negative attention never left so I don't blame her slowfade from everything. with one of the websites keeping tabs on receipts being kind of dodgy (afaik) it was just safest to fade off.
As someone who came to the magical girl genre from Madoka, thank you for making this. Even if I love the (better-done) misery porn series because my diet is about 80% catharsis by volume, this was a really valuable and appreciated examination of where the genre came from and its history of queerness.
As a trans woman myself, sometimes secretly being a pink, 13-year old cat girl LITERALLY IS the core experience. Lmao
This comment wins the comment section 🏳⚧
When i read this comment i thought of mad mew mew from undertale because of the "pink cat girl" part lol, which, by the way, Is also a trans woman
🏳️⚧️🦵🏾
@@randomperson3051 can you really call a spirit that possesed a cat girl toy a trans woman?...
@@dumdum8538 yes you can.
It's been two years, I miss you so much
I hope you are doing okay, Noralities!! No pressure to upload any videos or anything but given that you disappeared out of the blue and haven't posted I'm a bit worried something happened. Wishing you the best!
The power of gay compels you 🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈
I think he took "sexual" attraction too literally. It also means romantic in this case
I MISS YOU SM!!
Hello there! I'm here to say I miss you and I hope you're doing great. Thanks to you, me and my husband we are watching Princess Tutu! So thank you for convincing me to give it a chance
i’ve never clicked so fast. i’ve always loved magical girls they were my save place
Same :)
Yeah, feels like this video is targeted just for me!
Same here
they are pretty cool
I think a lot of the issue is that a lot of those Japanese authors still don't know shit about gay relationship. You see similar in the way how many femboys we have (at least when it started), I think a lot of the authors wanted to make a trans character but because of stereotypes just made an cross dresser. But also the fanbase defines pretty much every ambiguous character into a cross dresser.
It often can get complicated because while labels are often similar and imported from english, they aren't neccessarily *exactly* the same. My understanding is that the term usually translated as crossdressing is itself a bit more ambigious in japanese.
I don't know about that. Japan's LGBT spectrum, at least to me, feels much broader(?). Crossdressing is a huge part the night scene in Tokyo and there are many otoko-no-ko (straight, cismen who crossdress and have feminine aethetics and/or hobbies) who would take offense at such a remark. Yet at the same time, we also have people like the author of Moriarty the Patriot who wanted to make Irene trans but said he did not have the knowledge nor the experience to accurately portay such a character (and consequently, the character become more genderfluid than trans or crossdresser). So I'd say you have hit the bullseye, but the numbers maybe more low than you think (but much, much higher than the averaged otaku would admit).
Or maybe instead of acting like a colonialist, learn about how lgbt is in their culture?
Western and Asian societies are not the same.
While western societies is rooted deep in religious beliefs that condone same sex relationship, its not the same for most asian countries.
The way they see sexuality is different there, even more for japanese. No wonder they are the country who produce better lgbt rep than western. American always feels force to make gay archetype that act a certain way and all flashy or talk a certain way.
Or they always have to add a smutty scene.
In Japan, for exemple the general consensus is that its normal for teens and young adult to have romance behaviours with same gender. It's mostly seen as teen having fun before adulthood. So in a way its hard for young gay people to find a sincere relationship.
Well that is not the case for Japan. Most gay characters are just that, people who happen to be gay and that it. And we get every type of japanese gay.
The stereotypical flashy gay type are Okama, irl japanese guys who happened to be mostly middle age men who enjoy feminine things.
Also what great about japanese view is that GNC does not equal to someone sexuality. Many men flashy characters are just cis straight men, just as same as many can be lgbt. What you wears or what you hobbies mean nothing about your sexuality. Which goes with terms like Otomen for men who does stereotypically girly things. Or otoko no ko and Dansou for crossdressers/femboy/tomboy. By western side of view, most shonen characters are gay for wearing flashy clothing or having long hair when for Japan it's simply that, cool fancy clothing. Also long hair meaning more power.
Or for exemple the saying for someone who is actually trans will be "I'm female/male by heart" or also the fact that it's easy to transition all the way in Japan but hard for people who don't want to do surgeries so many simply transition socially and people around them accept it.
Because to have the ID card to say the gender you want to change, you have to change you have to suregerical transition.
Bi characters who just says "I don't care about the gender", and those types of guys exist in many anime/manga.
Or also, something that goes over people head too much is the lack of struggle in many BL. I mean, I'm black, if I want to see a thing about a black character, doesn't mean I want to see them spend their times struggling for nonsense things or talk about slavery or white supremacy like American media seems to like to do...
I want to see successful and happy black characters that makes me happy and makes me want to be successful not someone complaining about it.
Just like how for many gay from Asia, BL is a way to daydream and imagining themselves in a relation like that. Dismissing BL as female gaze is forgetting its root and how litteraly half of the writers are gay male.
Just like how fujoshi mean a girl who is too rotten to be mariable. Which was use as an insult by male mangaka against women mangaka for publishing male oriented gay relationships, while the males mangaka where making p/rn of lesbian relationship seksualizing women which upset the females mangaka who decided to actually do the reverse whith actual plot in it (basically making shoujo with the girl replaced by a guy).
The problematic r/p are thingy is actually something taken from shoujo manga. And even to this days you can find shoujo like this. Which is simply a problematic trope, that hopefully began to fade away and can only be found in pwp manga.
Also the thing is that most japanese people don't care about other people relationship. It's will always be like "you gay? ok anyway". For exemple unlike Skorea who is a ver Conservative and religious Christian country or China who want any gay fiction to fall under the rug, celebrities or idols who are openly gay is a rare thing while for Japan many of them are open about that, not in a way in Western in which people present themselves with their sexuality but simply based on what they will like "I don't care about gender", "I'm more into guys" and such. And they will openly say yes when people ask them is they are they.
sorry for my bad English.
hope you're doing alright. this channel was a huge inspiration for me as an artist and media critic and, even if it is dead for now, i'll still treasure it. thank you for all you did, sincerely
The outro is very bittersweet seeing as they haven’t posted in a year, hopefully everything is alright and hope they are ok ❤️
I feel that magical girl anime filled the same niche for young lesbians as Saturday cartoons did for young gays, seeing girls in their frilly outfits and armour probably made a lot of young girls feel a certain type of way ala He-man with young boys
"a certain type of way"
I can confirm as a pansexual.
Yup 💀
I'm almost 40, and the most effective, DEEPLY, romantic thing I have ever seen is when Haruka asks Michiru not to go where she can't follow. They weren't the first, but they remain the standout.
Hey there! I don’t know if you use this platform anymore, but I wanted to tell you that your videos have meant a lot to me and I am very grateful that you chose to share your art and your thoughts with the world. I hope you have a happy new year, full of good things.
I subbed to this channel a few days ago because I loved your videos but upon checking your channel instead of watching whats recommended I was surprised to see this was from 8 months ago 😭
Whether you’re busy with life issues, just taking a break from UA-cam altogether, or even working on the next video as I speak, I hope you’re doing well!
Wait, Utena came AFTER Sakura?
This channel rules, your openning is gorgeous.
Alternative outro; "And I just wanted to let you know, everything is going to be SO GAY 💖🌈"
(Loved the episode and it really made me want to rewatch Sailor Moon!)
I’m so sad you’re gone. The anime fandom is absolutely insane
Girl where are you? We missed you a lot.
I watched Magical Girl Lyrical Nanoha and girl, it gets lesbian literally on episode 4. By the time season 3 rolls around, everyone and their dog familiars understands that Nanoha and Fate are in love with each other. Such is the legacy of the Magical Girl genre
I was wondering if anyone was going to mention this one. It's been a while but I think even the voice actress said they shipped the two together.
Seriously, Nanoha and Fate literally sleep in the same bed and have a child together. It's as explicit as you can get without outright saying it.
"Oh, so she's their child..... WHAAAT?"
Funniest line in the show lol
To play devil advocate a bit, I feel a lot of authors, not all for sure, but quite a bit don't like outright confirming things in general. They want fans to discuss and debate, especially when it comes to relationships. So if i were to write a story of two people close to one another, and this relationship sparks a lot of interest in my story I wouldn't want to basically force my thoughts of what the relationship is onto other people.
On the other hand, I certainly dislike how "Just Friends" or "Like Family" gets used to basically shut down any discussion, especially if I did intend there to be a romantic quality to a relationship.
I hope noralities is ok
I miss your videos : c
I wanna see a magical girl duo where their magic is powered by their love. Like, good friendship is base level and fully reciprocated lifelong romance is God tier.
I mean, I'd say that both Madoka's god-like power and the things she is able to achieve thereof are the direct result of Homura's love for her. Homura is explicitly able to elevate herself above the system through the power of her love for Madoka.
Gay magical girls are the most powerful, it is known.
Not a big fan of the idea that romantic love is better than platonic love, tbh.
@@ahumanpersonpresumaly9970 that's fair. I just don't want any excuse for them to hide or dance around them being lesbians.
@@brendowego Yeah, I get it. Maybe a magic system where different types of love that have different pros and cons could work to get that message across.
That's basically Flip Flappers, innit?
Homura and Madoka's relationship really means a lot to me. I really hope they have the courage to finish the franchise off with a happy and canonically queer ending. Either way I'm expecting to cry, a lot.
I actually do recommend Kira Kira Precure a la Mode to anyone who likes gay magical girls because it is pretty explicitly gay. There is a romantic love confession (two actually, from different sets of girls!), multiple episodes dedicated to their relationship, and official art has shown Chocolat and Macaron doing the Jupiter/Neptune pose which is exact down to the very last detail. The manga turns it up a notch with lots of literal romantic flirting that can't be interpreted as anything else. I guess the creator has never come out and said "they're gay" if that is the standard but it really is so gay that even Pretty Cure fandom wiki, which loves to Conveniently Not Mention any of the multitudes of gay subtext in the other seasons, even admits that it's romantic, lol.
WE MISS YOU
All the BS with Rebellion and beyond is why I don’t consider anything past the original Madoka Magica finale canon for my own mental health lol