It is amazing. So many people are busy finding fault and commenting on the "downside" of the 338 ARC that they can't see the simplicity that will make it succeed right in front of them, even if it is not the best sub cartridge, availability and support goes a long way in cartridge success. I hunt coyotes and hogs here in Texas with AR rifles and pistols in .223/5.56, 6.5 Grendel, 6.8 SPC, 7.62x39, 300 Ham'r, 350 Legend and 450 Bushmaster and have no need for subs to hunt. BUT, IF a guy like me or any other typical AR owner wanted to get into 338 ARC for subs or supers for hunting or "home defense" it will be as easy as building any other upper for the AR platform. Hornady has enough clout that if they will make bullets for it others will follow in support. Faxon, Odin Works and KAK are already on board with barrels. Bolts and magazines already exist, as well as brass. Heck, if you already have a 22 ARC, 6 ARC or 6.5 Grendel you could even just put together a 338 ARC barreled upper and share a BCG and charging handle. I would be willing to bet if Hornady produced ammo for the 6.8 Western and 400 Legend both cartridges would be doing much better in the marketplace. Be it the best or not, simple and supported is what will push this thing into the hands of the masses in my little opinion.
@@nategoodwin3329 Not a bad idea. I have been on the fence about getting a suppressor, hate the idea of paying the government a $200 fee, but I might just get a Rugged Alaskan 360 can for hunting, hate wearing hearing protection, it will cover all my cartridges up to the 350 Legend and I could run subs with factory ammo in the 338 ARC. I would bet that if the 338 ARC catches on Hornady will produce more hunting ammo in weights that will get a little more speed. Could be an exciting cartridge for sub use and hunting, only time will tell.
@EC-mc7vg I'm in the same boat. I haven't bought a can out of spite for the tyranny tax either. I might cave and do it. I have an 8.5" .300 blackout and an 11.5" 5.56 that could use a little bark suppression. These damn Ar's are Legos. I can't stop building the things if I wanted to.. It's a sickness. 😆
@@EC-mc7vg Mos-tec already has a 1:5 barrel for 338 ARC & Halworx Ballistics has a 300gr 338 Rex subsonic projectile for 9-12 inch barrels that should work in the 338 ARC
I think this will be a bit different then both of those. Supposedly ballistics will be better and tuning/reliability will be easier when switching from suppressed to unsuppressed, and supersonic to subs at least compared to 300blk but 8.6 wont fit in an ar15 so thats a whole different thing. Im interested but cautious. As i am in process of building a 6arc with the same bolt head and supposedly mags, i may try this in the future too. To me at least right now, it seems like the modern American version of the Russian 9x39.
In my mind the ARC series of cartridges are a Niche product for AR platform owners. If you live in a country with backwards firearms laws like Chinada you can't own an AR platform legally - OR a suppressor. 2 of the main checkboxes of ARC development were specifically the ability to feed in an AR platform as well as performing with a short barrel intended for use with a suppressor. I'm curious to see if the ARC's popularity in America is going to be enough to keep the chambering alive for a long time.
The 1:3 twist causes the jacket to separate from the core even on subs for any lead core bullets. The 1:3 was a compromise twist between 1:4 and 1:2. They figured 1:3 would be slow enough for lead core subs. They were wrong. Tailoring a cartridge around a twist rate like that was a bad idea. They could have just gone with a 1:5 just like how a lot of 300 blk guns are 1:5. It's honestly the perfect twist for the 300 blk and 8.6 Having said all that with the 1:3 too fast... The 1:8 is also too slow. I'm not sure shooters will actually be able to print good groups with the 338 ARC from 1:8 barrels at 300 yards.
There is a third group of people. We are the ones that roll our eyes and suggest that this will be another niche cartridge that will sink into oblivion.
Spectre isn't SAAMI approved, is already an owned IP, and it's parent case is obscure and was only ever ideal for the 6.8 spc family of cartridges, as it fits the bolt and mags. But 6.8 spc has a dying community, so from Hornadys perspective it just makes more sense to use the case tech they already developed for their own 6.5 g brass and how they refined it to make it their own thing w/ 6mm arc. Now there's mags and bolts that support or correct for the problems the 6.5 g had back in the day, so it just makes more sense for them to go in that direction. Honestly it's not a bad idea. The 338 spectre always had good potential but had trouble realizing that potential because of the parent case and bolt issues and lack of official approval. Amd now that they have a reportedly great subsonic bullet, this can hypothetical unseat the 300 blk in every way except ease of adoption, while eroding a bit if the niche the 8.6 has, especially by being big name factory supported. But they underestimate the real utility of spin+monolithics. If only we could get faxon barrels for the ruger sfar, and if Q had an ar308 compatible aftermarket brace option. I low my home brew solution, but it can't compete with the weight abd drip if that Boombox. It's a thing of beauty.
All of these cases are essentially a proprietary design now. The ARC is a 7.62x39 and the Spectre is a 10MM Magnum. So you can go down to the local gun shop and get you some....
I wanna see a 338 Spectre vs 338 ARC video with the same length and twist barrels 1:3 1:5 1:6 twist and 6 8 10 & 12 inch barrels same suppressor used on both for the testing I want sound signatures velocity’s and ballistic gel results also group sizes at 100 yards I have a feeling they will be identical but one may shine over the other
For hunting we have energy restrictions that are not achieved even with a 300gr sub. So i will keep making 6.5 grendel subs for those critters that i can hunt. I hope that 338 arc is successful, and that the bullet construction for subsonic use keep improving.
Hearing kevin be a cry baby about this and how it is cheaper was all i needed to know. It sounds like a great round and there are tons of great 6.5 guns that can converted.
Kevins video was actually a great explanation of why you shouldnt get 338 Arc as a poor mans version of 8.6. That being said, i have no use for the 8.6, it is merely a boutique cartridge and I can do everything I need with a 300 HAMR or 6 Arc.
I'm interested in barrel life between 300 blackout vs 338 ARC. What do you think it will be between those two? A lot of us who are in blue states who might face future gun bans would like to know which one to go with so we can stock up on barrels now.
thanks for the update. i like all guns and cartridges. i just wish gun companies and ammo manf wud work together to produce superior products. like the 6gt g&t and i wouldnt make one if u have a specter. or sell ur specter
I’m happy with my 300blk and 8.6blk. If I wanted a subsonic only niche round in my ar15 id get a 458 socom. The amount of people simping for a major manufacturer marketing machine pushing a new round that they haven’t even seen perform yet is hilarious.
I assume hornady will initially control the brass and dies until I can get a trim die made and dies. Those 313s I made are very nice bullets designed specifically for the 8.6....
I've been waiting for this Hornady cartridge to come out for months, wanted to get the 338 Spectre, but brass is single source and the possibility of it drying up was a concern, I would not use the 10 mm case for that cartridge, was hoping that Hornady would use the 1 in 5 or even 1 in 6 twist, I'll wait and see if someone releases a 1 in 5 for the Arc, until then will continue to enjoy my 8.6 Blackout.
I've always wanted a 338 Spectre but component supply didn't instill confidence. But a 338 heavy impacting steel sells itself all day long. This is a great move for the market.
I have no idea why Hornady isn't building this off the 350 legend case. Unlike the PPC case, the Legend actually fits through an AR magwell while fully double-stacked. If you're gonna build a family of cartridges for the AR-15, it makes absolutely no sense to do it on a case which requires compromise. Hornady is dragging the entire industry down the wrong path. Beating 8.6blackout is not impressive, 8.6 blackout is itself a terrible, weak, inefficient cartridge. If you neck .284win up to .338 you can drive the same weights, in the same action footprint, EIGHT-HUNDRED fps faster. If you only care about subsonic performance, 350L can drive identically-weighted bullets up to the sound barrier. In his rant against 338ARC, the tool at Q accidentally admitted that reduced-capacity 8.6 brass (internally straight) has ALL of the subsonic performance of the native brass with reduced powder burn. That says it all really, even the designers admit that straight-wall is the way to go for subsonics.
Seems like Hornady trying to ram into the market their version of a subsonic hunting cartridge even though it might be inferior. I do think it will expand well at 1 in 8 twist.
@@EagleRun23 Lead projectiles are in grave danger of being outlawed (like already has happen in California) anyway. So any chance cheaper ammunition might be short-lived.
Welp , ill actually be able to shoot cast bullets out of the .338 witht the 1:8 twist. The 1:3 with the 8.6 just vaporizes Cast. ... Idk though this falls into one of those," hay thats neat ill make ones for giggles" deal. And in that im not trying to spend a ton. Hence why i want something that will let me shoot cast bullets ( cheap) not have to go up to AR10 ( dot. Have one but got 5 15's) . No tk mention i alredy load 6.5 grendel, 6mm arc and soon to be .22 arc so... Idk the the ARC just seems like its gonna be better for alot of us poor peeps
Did you ever hear from John on the 416 Spike? Did the interview not happen or did it become unhelpful? I hope i didn't push him too hard to consider the need for 416 to outperform the 375 raptor in a subsonic bullet weight. The potential is there definitely... but he seemed comfortable with what he developed despite merely being able to match 375 sub weight, w/o having the supersonic performance. To him, ease if case creation, ease of load development, ease of gas/cycling management, and ar25 mag compatibility all outstrip being more powerful. Its the only ar308 class subsonic cartridge besides 8.6 that can boast this. But its unclear whether a 400 gr 416 caliber sub is sufficiently more terminally effective than a 350 gr 338 sub that spins 3x faster. But I'd hate to think the 8.6 is the logical useful limit of the larger platform. The fact 45 raptor and 375 raptor exist demonstrate the potential is there. I think the magazine may be THE problem.
@@ravissary79 yes we spoke on the phone and exchanged emails. Unfortunate timing with the type of videos I am making. Lives weren’t working for this channel. I am game to get him on over on EagleReloads just have not pushed it.
I think honestly, the felt need for this wouldn't be as notable if the 8.6 had met the early advertised benchmarks. But the 8.6 supersonic just doesn't have the horsepower to justify the AR10 platform (size/weight vs recoil). As a purely subsonic cartridge, you hypothetically could definitely achieve something LIKE the 8.6 in an ar15... with trade-offs. Example: the 400 legend can do 210 gr at 2100 fps, which is slightly better than 8.6 linear velocity, bigger meplat, nice thump, but it loses velocity faster, standard twist, longer barrel. The 400 legend subsonic is 300 gr. So thats the same mass/energy profile, and while it doesn't have the soun benefits, its a fatter bullet so even moderate expansion should produce a deadly effective wound track. BUT, the 400 legend seems to be FAILING, ammo has no diversity, its only taking off in bolt guns, and magazines are NOT achieving doubke stack capacity beyond 10 rds, meaning its just a lighter 450 BM or beowulf. The potential of the smaller case is not being realized at all. Its simply not coming together unfortunately. The boombox essentially resilves the platform vs cartridge class issue by being an ultralight battle rifle sbr that's only slightly larger/heavier than the lightest ar15 SBRs. Which brings me back to the 416 Spike. If only its IP owner put it out there for us.
Not interested at all, but i also wasn't interested in 338 spectre and 8.6blk. I prefer 9x39 and 350L as they make better use of that weight, size, and (9mm) silencers. If they do a 9 or 9.3 ARC, then Id consider it, but 338/8.6 doesn't do it for me. Especially for sub use. (and this doesn't consider the increased case and rim diameter vs 350L.)
If you're wanting 8.6 BO in a -15 platform, it seems like Spectre is the way to go. If you're more concerned about going to the sporting goods store and getting ammo, then go arc. Personally, I'll go Spectre. Hornady and their excuse for 1:8 turned me off.
Just because Hornady went with 1:8 twist doesn’t mean you have to you can get 1:3 1:5 1:6 1:6.5 twist barrels made for 8.6 BLK 338 Spectre and future 338 ARC builds
@@jdbhunting365 And they have a 1:3 .338 Spectre. I've already ordered one. And the dies. I wasn't impressed with Hornady's intro, but it was good enough to get me to pull the trigger on the Spectre yesterday.
Shooting subs for $2-$4 a round doesn't sound very popular? 8.6 and 338arc seem more like a novelty cartridge that not many people can shoot enough to enjoy. 300blk is more budget friendly, but I'm not interested in any of them lol😂
8.6 blackout supersonic good for hunting. 338arc good for subsonic use. It’s about case capacity right now. 338 arc not a great supersonic round. 8.6 blackout not a great subsonic round. I’ve got a Q Fix. I’ve tried subsonic and I just don’t like dialing or using reference points in a scope for 100 yard shooting. Subsonic 8.6, or 338arc are fine for short range personal defense. You will miss a 300 blackout if you’re going to shoot from 20-200 yards.
With .338 spectre being such a proven caliber for a subsonic .338 AR-15, this is silly. Now...if they did a .375 or .408 with a super fast twist for nasty damage in a subsonic, I'd be game. This caliber is pointless. a 7mm, or 308 would maybe make sense (think .30 BR) but this seems dumb.
Appreciate the info and love seeing new loads developed! I wonder how this is going to impact the brass availability and prices... Personally I'll kick this can down the road... Never say never but I'm committed to 6 ARC and 8.6 Blk at the moment.
Honestly i believe the 8.6 is dumb. 300blkout works fine and these huge grain bullets in small cartridges just doesnt make much sense. Its a fad and wildcat rounds come and go. Remember the 300wsm? Yeah
I like the idea of 338 ARC, like 338 Specter, lighter smaller package of the AR-15 vs AR-10/LR308 but that is the advantage i see. I don't like the twist rate or bullet choice of Hornady. The SubX is a very good target round but sucks for hunting. Maybe I am have a become a solid copper snob, I like them for both supers and subs, but I will only use solid copper expanders in subsonic. I don't even like the Gorilla Fracturing subsonics. While I like the Fracturing or Controlled Chaos in supers, I want expanders that maintain their weight act like a broadhead for subsonics. Discreet Ballistics will probably have to tweek their round to get better expansion with such a slow twist.
So the 338 arc will need a full curve magazine which is not reliable in a ar 15 platform. Basically would have to have a very short magazine to work decent. Im a grendel fan, but not in a d i gas fun. 338 arc sounds like a waste of time
based on looking at Hornady's website that bullet doesn't have that much of a taper angle in fact looks even less than 5.56 i don't believe it will require a full curve mag it looks like it will take standard magazines pretty well Kevin at Q was saying the same thing but his video was basically hating the cartridge and no one besides Hornady has seen ballistic charts for this cartridge let alone has a rifle or the ammo to base it off of all the speculation because one company is pissed they didn't come up with the idea and then trash talk Hornady's decision on the round is crazy to me
Hunting with subsonic isn’t really ideal. Not bad for plinking but I don’t see a real need for something that doesn’t create wound channels as well as high velocity rounds or have the range. Super sonic rounds typically are hearing safe with a suppressor anyway. As neat as it is I would rather see Hornady make 6.8 western and get plenty of 6arc options and maybe produce some of the wsm stuff like 17wsm 270-7mm-300wsm. It’s not that ammo would not sell. IMO
The market response was throw money at it, if you need special bullets for it to not frag apart from rpm then its not a good design, and i dont want the bullet to open early, it needs to drive deep into the internals
So, basically, subsonic hunting is recreating the black powder musket from two hundred years ago? Big, heavy bullets going slowly? Ain't technology amazing!
Spin rate is overrated, literally. Compared to any other firearms angular rate, it doesn't provide any significant increase in damage to the target. It's a nothing burger from a physics and energy standpoint. It might add 0.5% to the overall effective lethality of the round in question, if that.
If it's the same overall length and similar powder charge to 338 Spectre, I'm game... especially if it's standardized and somone offers a decent autoloader that doesn't require a tax stamp. If Springfield makes a 26" variant of the Hellion with a 16" barrel in 338 ARC, my money is GONE. There's nothing competing for this segment. Apparently SBR has zero interest in getting SAAMI's stamp of approval for industry standardization.
i was disappointed in the .338 arc i thought the supersonic would be alot more then 2000 or 2200 there getting no interest in building one kevin from Q dropped a video on the subject , my thoughts are bring back the .338 federal 2700 ft
Lmao that video Kevin did is probably one of the whinniest videos I have seen. 338 ARC will be a good, cheaper alternative for subs, over getting into the 8.6 blackout.
Im debating building a 338 federal, neither of 8.6blk or 338 arc come close and they weren't designed to. I use my 300blk supersonic w 110vmax 8" barrel for hd. If i can use a 338 bullet, bigger is better right? Lol. I'd like to see how fast the 175 can be pushed in a short barrel.
@jdbhunting365 Q has already tested 99% of hornady bullets and shown they can already hold up to the 1:3 twist without any issues. They recently put out a video on the .338 arc. Q that is. Should check it out.
I was thinking about an 8.6blk, but i have a 6 and 22 arc. Kevin from Q threw such a little school girl hissy fit that i would never buy anything Q. I already thought he was a d bag, now i know!
@LRRPFco52 there are plenty of other cartridges already that do what you listed. That have magazines , barrels and bolts that leave enough bolt face that they don't explode.
@@MrNikkoz I don't think I've ever heard of a Grendel exploding, because working pressure is typically loaded in the 48-50ksi region. I've been shooting multiple Grendels since 2009 and have never broken a bolt. I shoot a lot, namely because I'm running DM courses that are 2-3 days/1-2 nights. My go-to Grendel lately (since 2017) has been 12" suppressed, and I run that thing all the time. Such a fun little AR that legitimately has high hit probability out to 1000yds. I've shot all kinds of Grendel bolts from 2009-present, including AA standard, AA Hard Use, Maxim, Monster, LaRue, and Rexus Ultrabolt. I just haven't had any failures. I've shot a lot of factory ammo SKUs from AA, Barnaul, Black Hills, Federal, Hornady, PF, and PPU, plus hand loads. Very mild cartridge with superior efficiency to most others on the market.
@LRRPFco52 I was just referring to the advanced wear on the bolt face. Is that why you have purchased so many bolts in 7 years? It doesn't much matter if it is your deer gun. But yeah .338 sharp is not doing anything you already are not doing or couldn't do with the .338 spectre or even better with an 8.6 blk.
@@MrNikkoz I've bought so many different types of Grendel bolts because I've been building Grendel ARs since 2009. Even after all the ones I've built for other people or given away, I still have 8 of them. I started with an Alexander Arms 16" barrel/bolt combo ordered from Midway in 2009. Never had a hiccup with that combo, shot it out to 1200yds evrn with factory 123gr A-MAX since it has 1/7.5 twist. Then I got 4 different Lilja barrels from 16-24", Criterion 10.5" & 8.5", Faxon 12" x2, a complete LaRue 18" Grendel rifle, and 14.5" Rexus. I haven't had a single component failure, other than breaking several discontinued scopes.
Sorry i have watched so many reinvented cartridges in my lifetime it is silly. Man what Hornady manages to make is great marketing that greases the wheel for people to empty their pockets. Tell me what a 300 prc will do that a 300 rum will not. Make an argument that justifies me tooling up another gun and dies to get ballistically the same outcome. Hornady is a genius in that game. I don’t buy it. The 8.6 will do nothing better my .458 socom can. Matter of fact i can shoot larger mass bullets in my socom and transfer more energy in a short action ar15 platform. What modern cartridge does it better than the 220 swift? What does it better than the 300 rum? What subsonic cartridge is superior to the .458 socom? Its just marketing folks. Didn’t buy into the 8.6 blackout just like i will not the arc. Empty your pockets if you want. There is NOTHING new its just slightly different. Only thing that hornady is bringing to the table worth me shelling out coin is bullet technology. They have made things better in that category. Sub x is great. Their high bc bullets are great. I don’t need a new reamer and action to make them work if i really want i can screw a different twist rate barrel on an action i already have the dies and brass for lol.
i agree marketing is excellent but Hornady is also providing the market with option what a 458 socom does at short range will not achieve near the same result in long range performance as a 6mm arc and a 338 arc will perform to its achievable limits what a socom cant you can hold 10 in a mag of socom its possible for 20 with 338 arc or even the full 30 with the close to the same short range performance which makes sense since 350 legend seems to do more damage than a larger 400 legend depending ammo and 458 doesn't have a very large backing and i have one myself but it would be one of the last few rifles i would take to go hunting unless it was for hog hunting purposes and even then ammo expense for 458 is way higher than 300 blk again options are preferences to different people
thats the thing about the NEW NEW, just watch and learn, thats me. ill see what they do and then if something makes me wonder, then I give it a try. if you already have 458 socom, not much of an advantage to go 86 for now. bullet tech keeps moving and we all benefit!
@@EagleRun23 in my eyes 8.6 is a gimmick round its not effective at range it has unpredictable ballistics it suppresses okish ammunition is very high dollar for the quality i cannot back it also the owner is a complete idiot and tries to bash anyone who disagrees with him on literally anything
Kevin over at Q didnt make it 36hrs before he made a video talking about how crapy it will be . Kevin is just mad because he didnt come up with it . I will never buy anything from Q again.
It's a good cartridge. The .300 BO is overhyped lousy and so is the 8.6. Cartridges for children having fantasies of being SOCOM operators. Thumb over bore metrosexual poseurs. The problem of the .338 is cost of ammo and market support. I don't see it going anywhere even though it's a good cartridge.
Thanks AURA for jumping on and sponsoring this video! Free Trial, Secure your DATA aura.com/eaglerun23
It is amazing. So many people are busy finding fault and commenting on the "downside" of the 338 ARC that they can't see the simplicity that will make it succeed right in front of them, even if it is not the best sub cartridge, availability and support goes a long way in cartridge success. I hunt coyotes and hogs here in Texas with AR rifles and pistols in .223/5.56, 6.5 Grendel, 6.8 SPC, 7.62x39, 300 Ham'r, 350 Legend and 450 Bushmaster and have no need for subs to hunt. BUT, IF a guy like me or any other typical AR owner wanted to get into 338 ARC for subs or supers for hunting or "home defense" it will be as easy as building any other upper for the AR platform. Hornady has enough clout that if they will make bullets for it others will follow in support. Faxon, Odin Works and KAK are already on board with barrels. Bolts and magazines already exist, as well as brass. Heck, if you already have a 22 ARC, 6 ARC or 6.5 Grendel you could even just put together a 338 ARC barreled upper and share a BCG and charging handle. I would be willing to bet if Hornady produced ammo for the 6.8 Western and 400 Legend both cartridges would be doing much better in the marketplace. Be it the best or not, simple and supported is what will push this thing into the hands of the masses in my little opinion.
As someone with an extra stripped upper, thank you for the suggestion. I think I know what I'm going to do with it.
@@nategoodwin3329 Not a bad idea. I have been on the fence about getting a suppressor, hate the idea of paying the government a $200 fee, but I might just get a Rugged Alaskan 360 can for hunting, hate wearing hearing protection, it will cover all my cartridges up to the 350 Legend and I could run subs with factory ammo in the 338 ARC. I would bet that if the 338 ARC catches on Hornady will produce more hunting ammo in weights that will get a little more speed. Could be an exciting cartridge for sub use and hunting, only time will tell.
@EC-mc7vg I'm in the same boat. I haven't bought a can out of spite for the tyranny tax either. I might cave and do it. I have an 8.5" .300 blackout and an 11.5" 5.56 that could use a little bark suppression. These damn Ar's are Legos. I can't stop building the things if I wanted to.. It's a sickness. 😆
@@EC-mc7vg Mos-tec already has a 1:5 barrel for 338 ARC & Halworx Ballistics has a 300gr 338 Rex subsonic projectile for 9-12 inch barrels that should work in the 338 ARC
@@EC-mc7vg A+ comment. Thank you sir!
Good info. I'm out. Not me. I'll stick to 300 blackout and 8.6
Feeling the same
Brass more abundant atm ya kno
I think this will be a bit different then both of those. Supposedly ballistics will be better and tuning/reliability will be easier when switching from suppressed to unsuppressed, and supersonic to subs at least compared to 300blk but 8.6 wont fit in an ar15 so thats a whole different thing. Im interested but cautious. As i am in process of building a 6arc with the same bolt head and supposedly mags, i may try this in the future too. To me at least right now, it seems like the modern American version of the Russian 9x39.
@@theblishknovk i got a 9x39 collecting dust lol
@@manyfaces2614 thats awesome. I saw 9x39 ammo for sale at some random shop once 2 years ago. I was actually shocked when i saw it.
@@theblishknovk i made mine. Bought dies from kak
In my mind the ARC series of cartridges are a Niche product for AR platform owners. If you live in a country with backwards firearms laws like Chinada you can't own an AR platform legally - OR a suppressor. 2 of the main checkboxes of ARC development were specifically the ability to feed in an AR platform as well as performing with a short barrel intended for use with a suppressor.
I'm curious to see if the ARC's popularity in America is going to be enough to keep the chambering alive for a long time.
The twist rate is one of the things I like about the 8.6.
The 1:3 twist causes the jacket to separate from the core even on subs for any lead core bullets.
The 1:3 was a compromise twist between 1:4 and 1:2. They figured 1:3 would be slow enough for lead core subs. They were wrong.
Tailoring a cartridge around a twist rate like that was a bad idea.
They could have just gone with a 1:5 just like how a lot of 300 blk guns are 1:5. It's honestly the perfect twist for the 300 blk and 8.6
Having said all that with the 1:3 too fast... The 1:8 is also too slow. I'm not sure shooters will actually be able to print good groups with the 338 ARC from 1:8 barrels at 300 yards.
except you can only shoot solid copper bullets, jacketed bullets rip themselves apart.
@@jonathanrogers9961 Yes, I know that.
@@jaredklein8863 does not seem like a great trade off, cant shoot most of the available bullet's, but whatever floats your boat.
@@jonathanrogers9961 I only need one that works. It’s a specialty cartridge, for me. It’s not a high volume plinker.
There is a third group of people. We are the ones that roll our eyes and suggest that this will be another niche cartridge that will sink into oblivion.
ok and thats fine. just dont think that new stuff will take your old stuff, haha you can keep it.
Not sure why the ARC and not Spectre or Razorback.
Razorback has issues with case splitting. Nito AP2020 abandoned it and now their is no one shooting it lol
Spectre isn't SAAMI approved, is already an owned IP, and it's parent case is obscure and was only ever ideal for the 6.8 spc family of cartridges, as it fits the bolt and mags.
But 6.8 spc has a dying community, so from Hornadys perspective it just makes more sense to use the case tech they already developed for their own 6.5 g brass and how they refined it to make it their own thing w/ 6mm arc.
Now there's mags and bolts that support or correct for the problems the 6.5 g had back in the day, so it just makes more sense for them to go in that direction.
Honestly it's not a bad idea.
The 338 spectre always had good potential but had trouble realizing that potential because of the parent case and bolt issues and lack of official approval.
Amd now that they have a reportedly great subsonic bullet, this can hypothetical unseat the 300 blk in every way except ease of adoption, while eroding a bit if the niche the 8.6 has, especially by being big name factory supported.
But they underestimate the real utility of spin+monolithics.
If only we could get faxon barrels for the ruger sfar, and if Q had an ar308 compatible aftermarket brace option.
I low my home brew solution, but it can't compete with the weight abd drip if that Boombox. It's a thing of beauty.
All of these cases are essentially a proprietary design now. The ARC is a 7.62x39 and the Spectre is
a 10MM Magnum. So you can go down to the local gun shop and get you some....
@@2barearms you can get 10mm magnum at your local gun shop?
I wanna see a 338 Spectre vs 338 ARC video with the same length and twist barrels 1:3 1:5 1:6 twist and 6 8 10 & 12 inch barrels same suppressor used on both for the testing I want sound signatures velocity’s and ballistic gel results also group sizes at 100 yards I have a feeling they will be identical but one may shine over the other
For hunting we have energy restrictions that are not achieved even with a 300gr sub.
So i will keep making 6.5 grendel subs for those critters that i can hunt.
I hope that 338 arc is successful, and that the bullet construction for subsonic use keep improving.
Hearing kevin be a cry baby about this and how it is cheaper was all i needed to know. It sounds like a great round and there are tons of great 6.5 guns that can converted.
Kevin is #1 hype man for 338 arc at this point lolllll
Same. Kevin sold me on 338ARC.
Kevins video was actually a great explanation of why you shouldnt get 338 Arc as a poor mans version of 8.6. That being said, i have no use for the 8.6, it is merely a boutique cartridge and I can do everything I need with a 300 HAMR or 6 Arc.
Screw Hornady. This whole deal has me about to stop using them at all. I’m sticking with 8.6 BLK. I love mine.
I'm interested in barrel life between 300 blackout vs 338 ARC. What do you think it will be between those two? A lot of us who are in blue states who might face future gun bans would like to know which one to go with so we can stock up on barrels now.
Barrel life with low velocities with large bore arent a major concern in general. Low speeds, low heat long life
Neither is likely to burn out a barrel, but you could get an extra barrel.
The 338 arc seems to be Joe every man’s 8.6 blackout. Easier for the average reloader aswell.
@@timtruelove7214 same same. No easier that I can see.
thanks for the update. i like all guns and cartridges.
i just wish gun companies and ammo manf wud work together to produce superior products. like the 6gt g&t
and i wouldnt make one if u have a specter. or sell ur specter
I’m happy with my 300blk and 8.6blk. If I wanted a subsonic only niche round in my ar15 id get a 458 socom.
The amount of people simping for a major manufacturer marketing machine pushing a new round that they haven’t even seen perform yet is hilarious.
Subsonic 450 bushmaster is awesome too btw, with a hybrid or primal suppressor or whatever.
338 ARC will make 300 BO obsolete if you shoot subsonic. The heavier bullets deliver significantly more energy at mach 1.
I'm thinking I'd like a 338 Arc in a bolt gun. No feed issues. Also thinking a 6mm Arc would be fun in an AR platform. Just taking it all in for now.
Im thinking about doing a 6arc in an ar. I like the grendall and a little faster would be nice
Love my 18” 6mm ARC AR definitely recommend this and now wanting a 338arc for a 14.5” faxon build
@@fam121el Mos-tec has a post of a 1:5 twist 338 ARC
I assume hornady will initially control the brass and dies until I can get a trim die made and dies.
Those 313s I made are very nice bullets designed specifically for the 8.6....
I've been waiting for this Hornady cartridge to come out for months, wanted to get the 338 Spectre, but brass is single source and the possibility of it drying up was
a concern, I would not use the 10 mm case for that cartridge, was hoping that Hornady would use the 1 in 5 or even 1 in 6 twist, I'll wait and see if someone releases
a 1 in 5 for the Arc, until then will continue to enjoy my 8.6 Blackout.
mostek will make you one right now! call and ask for Aaron.
Hornady trying to reinvent the wheel.338 specter is already a thing.
I've always wanted a 338 Spectre but component supply didn't instill confidence. But a 338 heavy impacting steel sells itself all day long. This is a great move for the market.
Ill just be happy when 8.6 gets the thumbs up from SAAMI!!
@@taterrs2504 I wonder if the twist is the deal breaker.
@@ravissary79 Thants what im thinking. Its ok thou I have enough of my load data for supers and subs to keep going
I have no idea why Hornady isn't building this off the 350 legend case. Unlike the PPC case, the Legend actually fits through an AR magwell while fully double-stacked. If you're gonna build a family of cartridges for the AR-15, it makes absolutely no sense to do it on a case which requires compromise.
Hornady is dragging the entire industry down the wrong path. Beating 8.6blackout is not impressive, 8.6 blackout is itself a terrible, weak, inefficient cartridge. If you neck .284win up to .338 you can drive the same weights, in the same action footprint, EIGHT-HUNDRED fps faster. If you only care about subsonic performance, 350L can drive identically-weighted bullets up to the sound barrier.
In his rant against 338ARC, the tool at Q accidentally admitted that reduced-capacity 8.6 brass (internally straight) has ALL of the subsonic performance of the native brass with reduced powder burn. That says it all really, even the designers admit that straight-wall is the way to go for subsonics.
@@phillycheesetake dude high five. 338 spectre is really fun. Hearing more and more about the 350 legend cases. I had not come across that yet.
338 arc in a Howa mine boly 🔥
Yeah I want that now
Seems like Hornady trying to ram into the market their version of a subsonic hunting cartridge even though it might be inferior. I do think it will expand well at 1 in 8 twist.
ya, but also their subx bullets arent mono, so they couldnt handle the faster twists, could result in cheaper bullets aka ammo over all.
@@EagleRun23 Lead projectiles probably will be outlawed the same as California anyway.
@@EagleRun23 Lead projectiles are in grave danger of being outlawed (like already has happen in California) anyway. So any chance cheaper ammunition might be short-lived.
Im only wanting to build one of these because of the saami spec. Faster twist. I wonder if we'll see
I'm thinking to a 12.5 build in another sbr after it's had some time after launch. It's a novel idea, but I won't be in a rush to build one
I'd say they are both awesome. 8.6 for monolithic and fast twist, 338 arc for cup and core. In subsonic loadings they should very similar.
Mos-tec makes 1:3 twist for 338 Spectre already and will likely be doing the same for 338 ARC they already have a post of a 1:5 twist 338 ARC
Welp , ill actually be able to shoot cast bullets out of the .338 witht the 1:8 twist. The 1:3 with the 8.6 just vaporizes Cast. ...
Idk though this falls into one of those," hay thats neat ill make ones for giggles" deal. And in that im not trying to spend a ton. Hence why i want something that will let me shoot cast bullets ( cheap) not have to go up to AR10 ( dot. Have one but got 5 15's) . No tk mention i alredy load 6.5 grendel, 6mm arc and soon to be .22 arc so...
Idk the the ARC just seems like its gonna be better for alot of us poor peeps
@@TheBlackTrapper that would be cool!! Ya
Did you ever hear from John on the 416 Spike?
Did the interview not happen or did it become unhelpful?
I hope i didn't push him too hard to consider the need for 416 to outperform the 375 raptor in a subsonic bullet weight. The potential is there definitely... but he seemed comfortable with what he developed despite merely being able to match 375 sub weight, w/o having the supersonic performance.
To him, ease if case creation, ease of load development, ease of gas/cycling management, and ar25 mag compatibility all outstrip being more powerful.
Its the only ar308 class subsonic cartridge besides 8.6 that can boast this.
But its unclear whether a 400 gr 416 caliber sub is sufficiently more terminally effective than a 350 gr 338 sub that spins 3x faster.
But I'd hate to think the 8.6 is the logical useful limit of the larger platform.
The fact 45 raptor and 375 raptor exist demonstrate the potential is there.
I think the magazine may be THE problem.
@@ravissary79 yes we spoke on the phone and exchanged emails. Unfortunate timing with the type of videos I am making. Lives weren’t working for this channel. I am game to get him on over on EagleReloads just have not pushed it.
I think honestly, the felt need for this wouldn't be as notable if the 8.6 had met the early advertised benchmarks.
But the 8.6 supersonic just doesn't have the horsepower to justify the AR10 platform (size/weight vs recoil). As a purely subsonic cartridge, you hypothetically could definitely achieve something LIKE the 8.6 in an ar15... with trade-offs.
Example: the 400 legend can do 210 gr at 2100 fps, which is slightly better than 8.6 linear velocity, bigger meplat, nice thump, but it loses velocity faster, standard twist, longer barrel.
The 400 legend subsonic is 300 gr.
So thats the same mass/energy profile, and while it doesn't have the soun benefits, its a fatter bullet so even moderate expansion should produce a deadly effective wound track.
BUT, the 400 legend seems to be FAILING, ammo has no diversity, its only taking off in bolt guns, and magazines are NOT achieving doubke stack capacity beyond 10 rds, meaning its just a lighter 450 BM or beowulf. The potential of the smaller case is not being realized at all. Its simply not coming together unfortunately.
The boombox essentially resilves the platform vs cartridge class issue by being an ultralight battle rifle sbr that's only slightly larger/heavier than the lightest ar15 SBRs.
Which brings me back to the 416 Spike.
If only its IP owner put it out there for us.
Not interested at all, but i also wasn't interested in 338 spectre and 8.6blk.
I prefer 9x39 and 350L as they make better use of that weight, size, and (9mm) silencers.
If they do a 9 or 9.3 ARC, then Id consider it, but 338/8.6 doesn't do it for me. Especially for sub use. (and this doesn't consider the increased case and rim diameter vs 350L.)
If you're wanting 8.6 BO in a -15 platform, it seems like Spectre is the way to go. If you're more concerned about going to the sporting goods store and getting ammo, then go arc. Personally, I'll go Spectre. Hornady and their excuse for 1:8 turned me off.
Just because Hornady went with 1:8 twist doesn’t mean you have to you can get 1:3 1:5 1:6 1:6.5 twist barrels made for 8.6 BLK 338 Spectre and future 338 ARC builds
Mos-tec already has a post of a 1:5 twist 338 ARC
@@jdbhunting365 And they have a 1:3 .338 Spectre. I've already ordered one. And the dies. I wasn't impressed with Hornady's intro, but it was good enough to get me to pull the trigger on the Spectre yesterday.
I would be interested only if I could get a barrel with a 1 in 5 wist.
sounds like you may like 338 spectre, i love mine!
Shooting subs for $2-$4 a round doesn't sound very popular? 8.6 and 338arc seem more like a novelty cartridge that not many people can shoot enough to enjoy. 300blk is more budget friendly, but I'm not interested in any of them lol😂
How many rounds do you push through your deer rifle? There is more to it than mag dumps.
8.6 blackout supersonic good for hunting. 338arc good for subsonic use. It’s about case capacity right now. 338 arc not a great supersonic round. 8.6 blackout not a great subsonic round. I’ve got a Q Fix. I’ve tried subsonic and I just don’t like dialing or using reference points in a scope for 100 yard shooting. Subsonic 8.6, or 338arc are fine for short range personal defense. You will miss a 300 blackout if you’re going to shoot from 20-200 yards.
solid comment!
With .338 spectre being such a proven caliber for a subsonic .338 AR-15, this is silly. Now...if they did a .375 or .408 with a super fast twist for nasty damage in a subsonic, I'd be game. This caliber is pointless.
a 7mm, or 308 would maybe make sense (think .30 BR) but this seems dumb.
How😊 does it compare to 50bw
Is anyone doing 50 beo sub sonic? I didnt think they were. if so, ya would be same principal, beef subbed for velo.
Appreciate the info and love seeing new loads developed! I wonder how this is going to impact the brass availability and prices...
Personally I'll kick this can down the road... Never say never but I'm committed to 6 ARC and 8.6 Blk at the moment.
I'll stick to 8.6 black good try hornady
Honestly i believe the 8.6 is dumb. 300blkout works fine and these huge grain bullets in small cartridges just doesnt make much sense. Its a fad and wildcat rounds come and go. Remember the 300wsm? Yeah
@@non-binaryjesus hey thanks for the comment if you don’t mind I’ll use this in a video. Maybe I can explain more about sub sonic rounds
I like the idea of 338 ARC, like 338 Specter, lighter smaller package of the AR-15 vs AR-10/LR308 but that is the advantage i see. I don't like the twist rate or bullet choice of Hornady. The SubX is a very good target round but sucks for hunting. Maybe I am have a become a solid copper snob, I like them for both supers and subs, but I will only use solid copper expanders in subsonic. I don't even like the Gorilla Fracturing subsonics. While I like the Fracturing or Controlled Chaos in supers, I want expanders that maintain their weight act like a broadhead for subsonics. Discreet Ballistics will probably have to tweek their round to get better expansion with such a slow twist.
Check out Halworx Ballistics
@jdbhunting365 i am familiar with them. They used to have some 220 or 225 non expanding coppers i wanted to try
@@IamONaLIST Mos-tec already has a post of 1:5 twist 338 ARC
So the 338 arc will need a full curve magazine which is not reliable in a ar 15 platform. Basically would have to have a very short magazine to work decent. Im a grendel fan, but not in a d i gas fun. 338 arc sounds like a waste of time
based on looking at Hornady's website that bullet doesn't have that much of a taper angle in fact looks even less than 5.56 i don't believe it will require a full curve mag it looks like it will take standard magazines pretty well Kevin at Q was saying the same thing but his video was basically hating the cartridge and no one besides Hornady has seen ballistic charts for this cartridge let alone has a rifle or the ammo to base it off of all the speculation because one company is pissed they didn't come up with the idea and then trash talk Hornady's decision on the round is crazy to me
Q wants it to not feed reliably, we will have to see. Spectre feeds great in a gas gun
arc has more taper than spectre, but ya not 762x39 taper! ha
beta vs vhs in ammo terms, one will win and the others will die. 375 raptor is probably better but it has never taken off.
Hunting with subsonic isn’t really ideal. Not bad for plinking but I don’t see a real need for something that doesn’t create wound channels as well as high velocity rounds or have the range. Super sonic rounds typically are hearing safe with a suppressor anyway. As neat as it is I would rather see Hornady make 6.8 western and get plenty of 6arc options and maybe produce some of the wsm stuff like 17wsm 270-7mm-300wsm. It’s not that ammo would not sell. IMO
Ohh man. You need to research more. We’re doing epic wound channels in sub sonic these days. Bullet tech is crazy right now.
@@EagleRun23 Yeah I’m probably not up to date on the new stuff. Thx
The market response was throw money at it, if you need special bullets for it to not frag apart from rpm then its not a good design, and i dont want the bullet to open early, it needs to drive deep into the internals
Excellent overview. 🎉 i will get one. I believe Midway is already on the bandwagon. Barrels and dies and brass!! So everyone go get it🎉🎉😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
So, basically, subsonic hunting is recreating the black powder musket from two hundred years ago? Big, heavy bullets going slowly? Ain't technology amazing!
i guess so, but the bullet tech and spin on spectre and blackout are pretty advanced. This ARC will allow for cast bullets i presume.
Spin rate is overrated, literally. Compared to any other firearms angular rate, it doesn't provide any significant increase in damage to the target.
It's a nothing burger from a physics and energy standpoint. It might add 0.5% to the overall effective lethality of the round in question, if that.
Yay, another round based on a trash case not intended for AR use.
You talked about it but never even once showed us full photos and specs
Answer: A solution looking for a problem
You'll make one next week
@@clarenceclark8592 whichever barrel gets here first!
what is the case length of 338 arc?
~33mm
If it's the same overall length and similar powder charge to 338 Spectre, I'm game... especially if it's standardized and somone offers a decent autoloader that doesn't require a tax stamp. If Springfield makes a 26" variant of the Hellion with a 16" barrel in 338 ARC, my money is GONE.
There's nothing competing for this segment. Apparently SBR has zero interest in getting SAAMI's stamp of approval for industry standardization.
i was disappointed in the .338 arc i thought the supersonic would be alot more then 2000 or 2200 there getting no interest in building one kevin from Q dropped a video on the subject , my thoughts are bring back the .338 federal 2700 ft
Lmao that video Kevin did is probably one of the whinniest videos I have seen. 338 ARC will be a good, cheaper alternative for subs, over getting into the 8.6 blackout.
You know this is primarily a subsonic cartridge right? Fits in the AR-15, hits much harder than 300 BLK.
Im debating building a 338 federal, neither of 8.6blk or 338 arc come close and they weren't designed to. I use my 300blk supersonic w 110vmax 8" barrel for hd. If i can use a 338 bullet, bigger is better right? Lol. I'd like to see how fast the 175 can be pushed in a short barrel.
@@onebadjack1313 I got one I am looking at moving.
💩 💩 💩 just 8.6 blackout without the twist rate that gives you the stability.... It will not go anywhere even with the hornady backing.
In the future 1:3 twist barrels will be made for 338 ARC and you can load projectiles that are designed for that twist
Check out Mos-tek & Halworx Ballistics
@jdbhunting365 Q has already tested 99% of hornady bullets and shown they can already hold up to the 1:3 twist without any issues. They recently put out a video on the .338 arc. Q that is. Should check it out.
@@RickheadWashington I’ve seen it Mos-tec has already made a post of a 1:5 twist 338 ARC
@@RickheadWashington Maker bullets already has some projectiles that should work well with 1:5 twist 338 ARC
I was thinking about an 8.6blk, but i have a 6 and 22 arc. Kevin from Q threw such a little school girl hissy fit that i would never buy anything Q. I already thought he was a d bag, now i know!
No thanks my 8.6 has been great and i will stick with it unless they change something with the 338 ARC
Hornady needs to fire the team that developed this. It succeeds in nothing but creating problems.
Solves lots of problems actually.
Pressures are similar between subs and supers, very efficient burner.
Hits harder than 300BLK
Accurate, tight SDs.
@LRRPFco52 there are plenty of other cartridges already that do what you listed. That have magazines , barrels and bolts that leave enough bolt face that they don't explode.
@@MrNikkoz I don't think I've ever heard of a Grendel exploding, because working pressure is typically loaded in the 48-50ksi region. I've been shooting multiple Grendels since 2009 and have never broken a bolt. I shoot a lot, namely because I'm running DM courses that are 2-3 days/1-2 nights.
My go-to Grendel lately (since 2017) has been 12" suppressed, and I run that thing all the time. Such a fun little AR that legitimately has high hit probability out to 1000yds.
I've shot all kinds of Grendel bolts from 2009-present, including AA standard, AA Hard Use, Maxim, Monster, LaRue, and Rexus Ultrabolt. I just haven't had any failures.
I've shot a lot of factory ammo SKUs from AA, Barnaul, Black Hills, Federal, Hornady, PF, and PPU, plus hand loads.
Very mild cartridge with superior efficiency to most others on the market.
@LRRPFco52 I was just referring to the advanced wear on the bolt face. Is that why you have purchased so many bolts in 7 years? It doesn't much matter if it is your deer gun. But yeah .338 sharp is not doing anything you already are not doing or couldn't do with the .338 spectre or even better with an 8.6 blk.
@@MrNikkoz I've bought so many different types of Grendel bolts because I've been building Grendel ARs since 2009. Even after all the ones I've built for other people or given away, I still have 8 of them.
I started with an Alexander Arms 16" barrel/bolt combo ordered from Midway in 2009. Never had a hiccup with that combo, shot it out to 1200yds evrn with factory 123gr A-MAX since it has 1/7.5 twist.
Then I got 4 different Lilja barrels from 16-24", Criterion 10.5" & 8.5", Faxon 12" x2, a complete LaRue 18" Grendel rifle, and 14.5" Rexus.
I haven't had a single component failure, other than breaking several discontinued scopes.
Use an air gun at this point
always an option, but subsonic hunting and airgun hunting are not closely related.
Sorry i have watched so many reinvented cartridges in my lifetime it is silly. Man what Hornady manages to make is great marketing that greases the wheel for people to empty their pockets. Tell me what a 300 prc will do that a 300 rum will not. Make an argument that justifies me tooling up another gun and dies to get ballistically the same outcome. Hornady is a genius in that game. I don’t buy it. The 8.6 will do nothing better my .458 socom can. Matter of fact i can shoot larger mass bullets in my socom and transfer more energy in a short action ar15 platform. What modern cartridge does it better than the 220 swift? What does it better than the 300 rum? What subsonic cartridge is superior to the .458 socom? Its just marketing folks. Didn’t buy into the 8.6 blackout just like i will not the arc. Empty your pockets if you want. There is NOTHING new its just slightly different. Only thing that hornady is bringing to the table worth me shelling out coin is bullet technology. They have made things better in that category. Sub x is great. Their high bc bullets are great. I don’t need a new reamer and action to make them work if i really want i can screw a different twist rate barrel on an action i already have the dies and brass for lol.
i agree marketing is excellent but Hornady is also providing the market with option what a 458 socom does at short range will not achieve near the same result in long range performance as a 6mm arc and a 338 arc will perform to its achievable limits what a socom cant you can hold 10 in a mag of socom its possible for 20 with 338 arc or even the full 30 with the close to the same short range performance which makes sense since 350 legend seems to do more damage than a larger 400 legend depending ammo and 458 doesn't have a very large backing and i have one myself but it would be one of the last few rifles i would take to go hunting unless it was for hog hunting purposes and even then ammo expense for 458 is way higher than 300 blk again options are preferences to different people
thats the thing about the NEW NEW, just watch and learn, thats me. ill see what they do and then if something makes me wonder, then I give it a try. if you already have 458 socom, not much of an advantage to go 86 for now. bullet tech keeps moving and we all benefit!
@@EagleRun23 in my eyes 8.6 is a gimmick round its not effective at range it has unpredictable ballistics it suppresses okish ammunition is very high dollar for the quality i cannot back it also the owner is a complete idiot and tries to bash anyone who disagrees with him on literally anything
1050 is 1050
so weight is all thats left to make a difference, unless we add twist and a bullet that can out perform with said twist.
Nope not interested, I have my blackouts don't see a need
Kevin over at Q didnt make it 36hrs before he made a video talking about how crapy it will be . Kevin is just mad because he didnt come up with it . I will never buy anything from Q again.
It's a good cartridge. The .300 BO is overhyped lousy and so is the 8.6. Cartridges for children having fantasies of being SOCOM operators. Thumb over bore metrosexual poseurs. The problem of the .338 is cost of ammo and market support. I don't see it going anywhere even though it's a good cartridge.
Ah yes new bullets. The .21 garbage and the .338 trash😂