Aw! That was nice if you, bro 👍 thanks for interacting with my comment. You know me, I'm pretty pro-8.6 its an awesome cartridge...but i wish the supers were as fast as they claimed.
I sort of agree on the accuracy issues with the 300 blackout, I never could get factory ammo to shoot, but with hand loads I have no issues with sub moa groups. I am looking forward to the 338 ARC, I have a Remington 722 short action that I can put a barrel on, and several AR lowers in the safe to build out. I like to tinker, was the same way when the Grendel came out years ago, built a 6ARC and got a barrel with a 1-7 twist done instead of the normal 1-7.5 just so I could tinker with 115gr bullets. As for my 8.6, I built both a bolt gun and an AR, the AR has been doing mostly supers, and I have been doing subs and ultra heavy cast in the bolt gun. There is something out there for everyone, just have fun doing it.
I was interested in subsonic cast loads for the .338 calibers but was concerned with the SUPER FAST twist rates. What barrel twist rate and Brinell hardness are your cast bullets? What kind of accuracy are you realistically getting?
Appreciate you doing the leg work and research for the masses. I was on hold for a razorback or spectre but i might be charging that one up for the ARC.
Both Q and Hornady have made videos comparing the 8.6 blackout to 338 ARC. I'd love to hear your opinion on their claimed Pro's and Con's I feel like Q overstated the reliability issues with 338 ARC and Hornady Overstated the cons of 1:3 twist.
350 legend is gonna be the final destination of subsonic hunting. Sub loads already exist, it's a far bigger diameter bullet yet at 0.355, heavy sub loads at 265+, I'm sure with more adoption it will find heavier options. Target ammo is already 0.75 CPR, reloaders can rejoice with 9mm/357 bullets because the 350 legend SAMMI spec fits both. The BIGGEST advantage 350 has is since it's a short, stubby bullet, even with a poor BC, you can pack so much more powder. I think 300blk is like, 26.5 grains while the 350 can run 36.5 grains. It doesn't matter if you fly more energy efficient if 350 flies with 300-400 more feet per second in supers. 2100 to 2400 is a major advantage 350 has over same grain 300 blk. If someone could make 350 high capacity reliable magazines, it would dwarf 300 blackout entirely as a PDW weapons system.
I use my 9mm can for 300blk and it works great. When I get set up for 338 arc it will work with that also. My can maker states as long as the projectile is subsonic and it fits in the hole it will work. Bowers can by the way.
UPDATE: Despite their visual similarities, 338 ARC is NOT Spectre. Spectre has just that little extra headroom for higher BC bullets. You wouldn't think so... but I have seen ballistic tables to confirm. ARC is still a great round. As far as I can see, it is Spectre's nearest competitor for the segment. In short, if you need the commercial stability and industry support that is sure to come with ARC... go with it. If you want the broadest performance envelope for an AR15 sub... Spectre is your cartridge. The table I recently downloaded, shows a Spectre load carrying over 500ft-lbs to more than twice that of 338 ARC.
To me it really seemed like Hornady just wanted to make their own twist on a small .338 cartridge vs 8.6 or 338 Spectre.. More power to them but I am sticking with 8.6 /338 Spectre.
Nito2020 outdoors stopped shooting it because he was getting case splitting issues with new brass (including starline) and "the gunsmith" kept blaming the brass or whatever. Apparently you can you use 6.8 spc ammo or something but that defeats the whole nanosonic gimmick.
Good discussion. Thanks! Hornady “can kinda charge whatever they want…” The marketing department at Nosler 😝 I’m NOT knocking Nosler. On the contrary, they can charge what they want because of their products.
You mentioned 300 black out as inaccurate ? That is news to me as my 16 inch AR is sub moa . Lots of people struggle at the range with many calibers . That is not the fault of the caliber .
I own a Bergara B14 and Mini Fix in 300 Blackout and both shoot sub MOA groups. You just sound like a hater. I’m picking up a Honey Badger in a few days (awaiting ATF approval). You can spread some more hate on that one too.
This could be a nifty bolt gun too. AICS 6 ARC mags are 2.4" coal. I wonder how much you could squeeze out of it with maybe starline brass or something too.
1. AR10 platform isn't a noticeable difference than AR15 2. 338ARC doesn't use standard mags or anything close. It is a calibre in search of a platform.
Use a superlative arms piston kit and a aero m4e1 enhanced upper! Bullet proof piston set up. A little heavier and brass gets dirty af but worth not having gas in your face and aloooot cleaner chamber imo
Im 99% set on this. Ill be waiting with baited breath on your builds! Id love research into twist rate for it. X-calibur makes a 1:6.25" twist 375 raptor barrel as they claim its the fastest without any risk. I wonder if thatd work on the ARC. Otherwise im likely going mos-tek 6.5 twist to be able to just shoot everything with no issue
300 Blackout is a decent GENERAL PURPOSE round. That being said, it's not the be-all/end-all of cartridges. It may be for [enter fanboy name], and that's great for [enter fanboy name]. For those who tend to focus on sub-400m suppressed applications, 300 BO still has its compromises. Primarily, it's over-pressured. Here's the best way I know to sum up the comparison of the two: 300 BO is a sub-sonic CAPABLE cartridge... not subsonic OPTIMIZED. 338 ARC/Spectre is a sub-sonic OPTIMIZED cartridge, that is also supersonic CAPABLE to to over 500m.
I just want a subsonic cartridge that expands appropriately and consistently for medium sized game while being affordable and not impossible to purchase. But I guess I am asking for too much.
@@CorvetteStuff1 My use of that cartridge on hogs has been mediocre. I have had much better results (100% so far) from Underwood 194 gr Maximum Expansion. But they are ridiculously expensive. So hogs don't merit the expense and I use Sub-X for population control of hogs. I save the Underwoods for deer.
I havent seen anyone address how well this round feeds from 15 round or more magazines. NONE of the new wonder calibers seem to. Especially the subsonic rounds, .45acp still seems to be the reliable way to throw heavy rounds
338 anything in an ar15 or ar10 platform are not economical or that fun to play with. Put them in a bolt gun. They are just plinking hobby calibers. But if you like shooting 2-5$ a round calibers for a hobby, that's cool. I would love to have one, but until someone can mass produce 338 bullets for cheap, these calibers will die and just be handloaded.
Everyone struggling to shoot MOA on their honey badgers and all these other high end tactical rigs. Meanwhile, my $450 Savage Axis II is shooting sub-MOA at 100 yards all day, lol. 300BO is accurate, people just need to stop accepting shit accuracy from $3000+ rifle makers and speak with their wallets. There are way to many manufacturers out there that are turning out average quality, but because it has their roll mark on it, they gouge. It's up there with unnecessarily expensive 2011s.
So I got all jazzed by the 8.6 Blackout,,,until I saw the abysmal trajectory charts on it. For that matter any subsonic cartridge! But the 8.6 has another inherent problem, spin drift at longer ranges. It’s hard enough to deal with drop, add spin drift and I’m out! 8.6 as a supersonic load, a complete joke! If you want to run a 338 at supersonic speeds in an Ar-10 platform go 338 Federal, it stomps the 8.6 super by a wide margin!!!! I’m 70 years old and have been hunting for well over 40 years. I’ve tried different calibers on deer and hogs for years. hunting can sometimes be complicated with the lack of cooperation from game, why complicate it further by using subsonics to justify your pricey cool suppressor? And yes I have suppressors and have hunted with them. Great for night hunting due to reduced sound but that’s with supers. I’m waiting for more info and test results on the 338 ARC. Not holding my breath at this point as the other ARC cartridges haven’t tripped my trigger.
Yeah 300blk being inaccurate overall is a very dumb take. Shows the company he goes to the range with! 101 grain hammer copper boolots can shoot MOA at 100 standing up no support all day I use it for deer here in southeast AK. Never had a issue with factory loads shoots it all the same.
What's your twist rate? 300 blk takes a massive diversity in bullets. It's great you found a load you can drive nails with, but the broader populace is trying to with 100 loads and then getting disappointed.
The primary problem with any subsonic 338 cartridge will be the cost of the projectiles. There is little to no benefit to a much larger and more expensive projectile.
Bullet mass/diameter is the only way to increase the energy of a subsonic cartridge. So yes, there is a benefit for people like me who want something more than a .300blk for deer hunting
@@midwestbd7144 Clearly you have never actually shot a subsonic rifle caliber into a soft target. IF you had, you would know that the bullet has MASSIVE over penetration and will waste all that extra energy out the backside of the target. I have shot 150gr 30 cal subsonics into soft, wet targets and the bullets wildly over penetrate. Adding mass would not increase the energy dumped into the target. But you go ahead and talk about a subject you have ZERO actual experience with.
I dont have direct experience with any of these 338 cartridges, but 185 at 2100 is not good 308 is doing 2550 out of a 16" barrel with that weight bullet, and at 2-300 yds will have far more energy on target. 338 bullets under 250 grns fall like a rock and lose velocity and energy fast. Not to mention cost and reliability 308 runs i doubt 8.6 blk would be nearly as realiable. 300 blkout accuracy issues is most of the time a twist problem they work well with light bullets but not subs endless it has a fast twist. 338 arc twist is too slow if 8.6 is 1 in 3 and 338 arc is 1 in 8. Q claims a 1 in 5 or 1 in 3 is what is required for subsonic 300 grn ish loads for good accuracy. I live in the west so i dont understand handcapping cartridges that have been dropping animals for decades. And handicapping myself to short ranges
The 1 in 5 twist on the Q 300 BO does improve accuracy.
Aw! That was nice if you, bro 👍 thanks for interacting with my comment.
You know me, I'm pretty pro-8.6 its an awesome cartridge...but i wish the supers were as fast as they claimed.
Im glad you called out the 300bo accuracy. And yes once I put a can on my ar10 I haven't used and non suppressor deer guns.
I sort of agree on the accuracy issues with the 300 blackout, I never could get factory ammo to shoot, but with hand loads I have no issues with sub moa groups. I am looking forward to the 338 ARC, I have a Remington 722 short action that I can put a barrel on, and several AR lowers in the safe to build out. I like to tinker, was the same way when the Grendel came out years ago, built a 6ARC and got a barrel with a 1-7 twist done instead of the normal 1-7.5 just so I could tinker with 115gr bullets. As for my 8.6, I built both a bolt gun and an AR, the AR has been doing mostly supers, and I have been doing subs and ultra heavy cast in the bolt gun. There is something out there for everyone, just have fun doing it.
I was interested in subsonic cast loads for the .338 calibers but was concerned with the SUPER FAST twist rates. What barrel twist rate and Brinell hardness are your cast bullets? What kind of accuracy are you realistically getting?
Appreciate you doing the leg work and research for the masses. I was on hold for a razorback or spectre but i might be charging that one up for the ARC.
love my spectre, that build is over on @eaglerun23 channel. Ill build an ARC too i guess!
Im curious how .338 ARC stacks up with the old 9x39mm
Right on
Both Q and Hornady have made videos comparing the 8.6 blackout to 338 ARC. I'd love to hear your opinion on their claimed Pro's and Con's
I feel like Q overstated the reliability issues with 338 ARC and Hornady Overstated the cons of 1:3 twist.
I look forward to the new bulky powder so more easily suppress 308 and have better SD. Good for suppressor business
350 legend is gonna be the final destination of subsonic hunting. Sub loads already exist, it's a far bigger diameter bullet yet at 0.355, heavy sub loads at 265+, I'm sure with more adoption it will find heavier options. Target ammo is already 0.75 CPR, reloaders can rejoice with 9mm/357 bullets because the 350 legend SAMMI spec fits both. The BIGGEST advantage 350 has is since it's a short, stubby bullet, even with a poor BC, you can pack so much more powder. I think 300blk is like, 26.5 grains while the 350 can run 36.5 grains. It doesn't matter if you fly more energy efficient if 350 flies with 300-400 more feet per second in supers. 2100 to 2400 is a major advantage 350 has over same grain 300 blk. If someone could make 350 high capacity reliable magazines, it would dwarf 300 blackout entirely as a PDW weapons system.
I use my 9mm can for 300blk and it works great. When I get set up for 338 arc it will work with that also. My can maker states as long as the projectile is subsonic and it fits in the hole it will work. Bowers can by the way.
458 socom 500gr-600gr subs are awesome. The 338 arc seems pretty cool too.
UPDATE: Despite their visual similarities, 338 ARC is NOT Spectre.
Spectre has just that little extra headroom for higher BC bullets. You wouldn't think so... but I have seen ballistic tables to confirm. ARC is still a great round. As far as I can see, it is Spectre's nearest competitor for the segment.
In short, if you need the commercial stability and industry support that is sure to come with ARC... go with it. If you want the broadest performance envelope for an AR15 sub... Spectre is your cartridge. The table I recently downloaded, shows a Spectre load carrying over 500ft-lbs to more than twice that of 338 ARC.
To me it really seemed like Hornady just wanted to make their own twist on a small .338 cartridge vs 8.6 or 338 Spectre.. More power to them but I am sticking with 8.6 /338 Spectre.
marketing and cartridge family are a big deal to a big company like hornady, I dont blame them for it, its just the nature of the beast.
Have you looked into 338 Razorback since it uses 10mm instead of 10mm mag
What do you think about .338 razorback? Looks like there are several different .338 subsonic efforts happening at the same time.
Nito2020 outdoors stopped shooting it because he was getting case splitting issues with new brass (including starline) and "the gunsmith" kept blaming the brass or whatever. Apparently you can you use 6.8 spc ammo or something but that defeats the whole nanosonic gimmick.
razorback was interesting but i think it had case issues.
Good discussion. Thanks!
Hornady “can kinda charge whatever they want…”
The marketing department at Nosler 😝
I’m NOT knocking Nosler. On the contrary, they can charge what they want because of their products.
You mentioned 300 black out as inaccurate ? That is news to me as my 16 inch AR is sub moa .
Lots of people struggle at the range with many calibers . That is not the fault of the caliber .
I bet there are some out there, but historically its not accurate in general.
I think people wanted it to be more accurate in short pistols/sbrs.
Probably true with people shooting subs ? Partial powder case fill isn't the best for accuracy in any case .@@EagleReloads
I own a Bergara B14 and Mini Fix in 300 Blackout and both shoot sub MOA groups. You just sound like a hater. I’m picking up a Honey Badger in a few days (awaiting ATF approval). You can spread some more hate on that one too.
This could be a nifty bolt gun too. AICS 6 ARC mags are 2.4" coal. I wonder how much you could squeeze out of it with maybe starline brass or something too.
Who makes a POF or SFAR barrels in 8.6 or anything ar10?
1. AR10 platform isn't a noticeable difference than AR15
2. 338ARC doesn't use standard mags or anything close. It is a calibre in search of a platform.
I find it odd that there is very little video of function testing, chronograph or accuracy
2.8 100 yards sig dot 7.5-in barrel I thought I was balling I use mine as a sub gun
my deal with 300 bo is it blasts gas in my face being a lefty, i dont know if the 338 arc will be better about this but maybe you could anwser that
we may have to test and see, Hornady is talking a lot about more consistent pressures between Sub and Super. wondering about gas too!
Get a left handed upper from bca.
@@tarasowell8191 I'm not buying that junk
Use a superlative arms piston kit and a aero m4e1 enhanced upper! Bullet proof piston set up. A little heavier and brass gets dirty af but worth not having gas in your face and aloooot cleaner chamber imo
@@EagleReloads could you see what your 338 specter does regarding that? It's similar to 338 arc cprrect?
Im 99% set on this. Ill be waiting with baited breath on your builds! Id love research into twist rate for it. X-calibur makes a 1:6.25" twist 375 raptor barrel as they claim its the fastest without any risk. I wonder if thatd work on the ARC. Otherwise im likely going mos-tek 6.5 twist to be able to just shoot everything with no issue
Mos-tec has a post of a 1:5 twist 338 ARC build
fun! i think ill give it a go too, build will be on main channel, reloading and cartridge specific stuff here.
If 338ARC has 50% more energy than 300BLK, does it also have 50% more recoil?
Yes
300 Blackout is a decent GENERAL PURPOSE round. That being said, it's not the be-all/end-all of cartridges. It may be for [enter fanboy name], and that's great for [enter fanboy name].
For those who tend to focus on sub-400m suppressed applications, 300 BO still has its compromises. Primarily, it's over-pressured.
Here's the best way I know to sum up the comparison of the two:
300 BO is a sub-sonic CAPABLE cartridge... not subsonic OPTIMIZED.
338 ARC/Spectre is a sub-sonic OPTIMIZED cartridge, that is also supersonic CAPABLE to to over 500m.
I have no real interest in a AR15 in this cartridge, however I may do a Howa Mini Action and do a barrel swap
Halworx is planning to do a bolt gun build too! I may see if we can show it off. later this year.
I just want a subsonic cartridge that expands appropriately and consistently for medium sized game while being affordable and not impossible to purchase. But I guess I am asking for too much.
Hornady 300 Blk 190grain Sub-X works splendidly.
@@CorvetteStuff1 My use of that cartridge on hogs has been mediocre. I have had much better results (100% so far) from Underwood 194 gr Maximum Expansion. But they are ridiculously expensive. So hogs don't merit the expense and I use Sub-X for population control of hogs. I save the Underwoods for deer.
I havent seen anyone address how well this round feeds from 15 round or more magazines. NONE of the new wonder calibers seem to. Especially the subsonic rounds, .45acp still seems to be the reliable way to throw heavy rounds
If they're 6.5 grendel or 6mm arc magazines then I wager it would work.
338 anything in an ar15 or ar10 platform are not economical or that fun to play with. Put them in a bolt gun. They are just plinking hobby calibers. But if you like shooting 2-5$ a round calibers for a hobby, that's cool. I would love to have one, but until someone can mass produce 338 bullets for cheap, these calibers will die and just be handloaded.
Everyone struggling to shoot MOA on their honey badgers and all these other high end tactical rigs. Meanwhile, my $450 Savage Axis II is shooting sub-MOA at 100 yards all day, lol.
300BO is accurate, people just need to stop accepting shit accuracy from $3000+ rifle makers and speak with their wallets. There are way to many manufacturers out there that are turning out average quality, but because it has their roll mark on it, they gouge. It's up there with unnecessarily expensive 2011s.
I’m going to start a channel called elephant loads.
Early gang
So I got all jazzed by the 8.6 Blackout,,,until I saw the abysmal trajectory charts on it. For that matter any subsonic cartridge! But the 8.6 has another inherent problem, spin drift at longer ranges. It’s hard enough to deal with drop, add spin drift and I’m out! 8.6 as a supersonic load, a complete joke! If you want to run a 338 at supersonic speeds in an Ar-10 platform go 338 Federal, it stomps the 8.6 super by a wide margin!!!! I’m 70 years old and have been hunting for well over 40 years. I’ve tried different calibers on deer and hogs for years. hunting can sometimes be complicated with the lack of cooperation from game, why complicate it further by using subsonics to justify your pricey cool suppressor? And yes I have suppressors and have hunted with them. Great for night hunting due to reduced sound but that’s with supers. I’m waiting for more info and test results on the 338 ARC. Not holding my breath at this point as the other ARC cartridges haven’t tripped my trigger.
Ordered a 1:6" twist 338 ARC 12.5" barrel. Im just as excited for the 125gr supers as i am the subsonic loadings.
Yeah 300blk being inaccurate overall is a very dumb take. Shows the company he goes to the range with! 101 grain hammer copper boolots can shoot MOA at 100 standing up no support all day I use it for deer here in southeast AK. Never had a issue with factory loads shoots it all the same.
What's your twist rate?
300 blk takes a massive diversity in bullets. It's great you found a load you can drive nails with, but the broader populace is trying to with 100 loads and then getting disappointed.
The primary problem with any subsonic 338 cartridge will be the cost of the projectiles. There is little to no benefit to a much larger and more expensive projectile.
Bullet mass/diameter is the only way to increase the energy of a subsonic cartridge. So yes, there is a benefit for people like me who want something more than a .300blk for deer hunting
Wow, literally everything you said is wrong.
@@midwestbd7144 Clearly you have never actually shot a subsonic rifle caliber into a soft target. IF you had, you would know that the bullet has MASSIVE over penetration and will waste all that extra energy out the backside of the target.
I have shot 150gr 30 cal subsonics into soft, wet targets and the bullets wildly over penetrate. Adding mass would not increase the energy dumped into the target.
But you go ahead and talk about a subject you have ZERO actual experience with.
@@OutdoorGearCorps Maybe actually try it before you talk shit on a subject you don't know anything about?
I dont have direct experience with any of these 338 cartridges, but 185 at 2100 is not good 308 is doing 2550 out of a 16" barrel with that weight bullet, and at 2-300 yds will have far more energy on target. 338 bullets under 250 grns fall like a rock and lose velocity and energy fast. Not to mention cost and reliability 308 runs i doubt 8.6 blk would be nearly as realiable. 300 blkout accuracy issues is most of the time a twist problem they work well with light bullets but not subs endless it has a fast twist. 338 arc twist is too slow if 8.6 is 1 in 3 and 338 arc is 1 in 8. Q claims a 1 in 5 or 1 in 3 is what is required for subsonic 300 grn ish loads for good accuracy. I live in the west so i dont understand handcapping cartridges that have been dropping animals for decades. And handicapping myself to short ranges