There has been 338 Spectre (10mm Auto Mag or 6.8 Wildcat) and 338 Razorback cartridges that do this, but they didn’t have the engineering and testing capabilities that Hornady does. Those used 6.8 and 6.5 Grendel mags, very fun to shoot on steel. 338 ARC just makes it mainstream really with factory support from a big company.
Crazy how in this community, so many people get bent out of shape over a new product. Why are so many people threatened by something like this(or any other new cartridge)? I've never understood that. Are those same people mad when Ford comes out with a better truck than their 10 year old model? Or, maybe they don't like capitalism. If that's the case, they won't find much sympathy in this crowd.
Because people like to complain. Even before the internet people like to hate on calibers. I can’t remember which podcast, either hornady or vortex, but 270 win apparently got a lot of hate from old timers like the 6.5 CM gets today.
@JNOSNOW why bother even watching or commenting if you don't like hornady products 😂. Also, who cares who made it theres literally thousands of crossover cartridges and calibres.
what he's saying about 8.6blk having more than optimal case capacity for subs is true, but it was developed (like 300blk) to be used sub and super, so it's a compromise from the start. also, maybe you guys could take another look at your 45-70 sub-x load if you understand suboptimal powder charges? 405gr @1300fps is what the army was getting in 1860 with blackpowder, so 410gr @ 1050 is... anemic. really should be a 500+gr projectile to get the energy up and take up more case room.
Totally disagree. The 8.6 BO has too much case capacity for subsonic loadings for most of us that reload. We don't have high end factory powder blends. And having more case capacity doesn't just mean that you have a small charge in a giant case. It also means that it takes more powder(in that small charge) to get to 1050. That same small charge would be even smaller in a smaller case. Quiet subsonic have more to do with charge weight and barrel length than anything.
@@JNOSNOW the only problem with unique is that you cannot load it in certain things like rifles less than 60% case capacity. That's why H4895 was so supreme.
When you release a new product, it should stand on its own merits, dont shit talk a completely different round trying to sell yours >"the case capacity of 8.6 blackout is not optimised for subsonic" The 8.6 blackout can take heavier bullets than the ARC, you can fill up empty space with proper powders or a larger bullet. This is not a real problem. >"you dont need an ar10 platform for 338 subsonic, 1050 is 1050" You can load longer, heavier subsonic bullets in the ar10 platform. This leads to more energy on target. You know this >"spinning a bullet at 1/3 means bullets perform differently and you can have traditional cup and core bullets explode from rotation" Q tests the vast majority of 338 bullets on the market, and modern high quality bullets dont have this problem. If people want a ar15 catridge that is slightly bigger than subsonic 300blk, the 338 is cool. So is 338 spectre,350 legend,458 socom If you want a 12in barrel bear gun with more supersonic muzzle energy than 308, that can switch to subsonics with heavy bullets and reliable expansion, the 8.6 it is
So I see nobody has improved on .458 SOCOM for subsonic performance. Good to know. Meanwhile, how far are people thinking they'll shoot these cartridges? I hope they have a darn accurate rangefinder if they think their group size past 200 yards is somehow important.
Sorry, but my 12" Q Fix in 8.6 black shooting Gorilla Ammunition 300gr SMK subs, 285gr Fracturing subs, and also 342gr Punisher subs all shoot 1 MOA or less. SDs are also 15 or less for all of those types. All are truly subsonic and extremely quiet with great terminal results. 210gr Barns TSX supers are also 1 MOA or less also with SD 15 or less. I was really hoping Hornady would produce 8.6 BLK ammo. That being said, I am interested to see just what 338 ARC really can do vs 8.6 BLK. All we have here so far is talk. Put out some true comparisons so people can make informed decisions.
It won't be good with supers like the 8.6 it just doesn't have the case capacity. With Subs should be phenomenal though. Looking at the specs on hornady website for the 175 black line they only do 2075 fps. 16" barrel. Glad your Fix is working good for you. I'm just interested in the subs from the AR15 platform.
Yeah I gotta call cap on that 1 moa or less for all your subsonics u posted. Because I’ve personally shot 300 SMKS from gorilla and seen others shoot what u posted and at best they were all 2.5-5moa. The data I’ve seen is in 8.6 discords and Facebook groups. On top of that Q has been ABSOLUTELY USELESS in terms of any trouble shooting and essentially has left us consumers to figure out how to solve their issues for them
@@Swissk31300BOMy 16” 8.6 Fix shoots 1MOA (3 shot groups) at 100 yards with Gorilla 300gr SMK and 300gr Berger Hybrid. Best group so far has been 0.6MOA at 100 yards with the Bergers.
I am very happy with my 8.6 Blackout, my sub handloads avg standard dev is 5-6fps, less than 1moa, I can also shoot Barnes TSX 210s in supersonic in it and I've shot plenty of game and they are devastating. Copper projectiles are all you need in my opinion and there are no issues with the 1 in 3 twist. I know you have to promote your new round, but I don't think your reasons against the 8.6 are solid.
Truly spoken. They could have just made an excellent 8.6 BLK offering, not come up with something proprietary that has already been proven to deliver sub-par results with a slower twist rate. 2010 called, they want their failed research back.
@@fltmed this is different because it fits AR15 not AR 10. That is the point with this round. specifically with subs. Supers are anemic at 2075fps with 175 gr black line in a 16"barrel. subs in the AR15 is all I care about.
I’ve talked to a few suppressor manufacturers that have had to repair many suppressors due to bullets coming apart in the 1/3 twist of the 8.6 blkout. There is always room for improvement and superior products.
@@williamsonnie9935 Are they shooting solid copper bullets? Bolt or Semi-Auto? I have almost 2k rounds thru my 12" Q Fix with both the Short Chop and Porq Chop cans without any issues. Small sample of just one (mine) I know. Just curious what the variables that may be causing issues.
Well. Hornady for the win again. Stoked to see ga precision is now letting the 6gt go to market as well. Just sucks cause I ordered a whole seasons worth of 110 atip for next ag cup season.
So this requires a new barrel (obviously) new bolt... and new magazine. Thats alot of new! 300 blk and 8.6 just require a barrel swap! 338 arc not for me... but anyone who buys it... have fun and vote!
338 spectre has been out for years ar15 and good for subsonic. Good brass supply reasonable price. Seems like this is another rinse and repeat cartridge of something that already exists.
Will the Sub-X bullets handle 1:3 twist? All the other cup/core bullets I've loaded for subs function just fine, average around 1.5 MOA, and have been in the single digits for Std Dev and Extreme Spreads. Would love to try the Sub X too.
Subsonic… you’re fine. It’s when the velocities increase that separation occurs. I’ve run lots of different stuff at 1000-1100… i won’t touch anything that’s not monometal above that. I like my cans to much.
@@jrca1406honestly it seems like I would have less trouble going with the .338 arc than going with the 8.6. AR 10s always seem to have more problems when building than AR15s
What magazines does it use? What Bolts does it use? What’s the Bolt life like? What Silencer Caliber does it use? What’s Brass life (reloading) look like? What gun companies have signed on to make rifles (and “pistols”? This smells a bit like “30 Super Carry”. A new caliber looking for a use case, that will have no platform support. How does the 338ARD compare to “338 Spectre” or “338 Whisper 2”?
338 Spectre uses a 6.8spc or 10mm magnum case and a 6.8spc bolt head. This means you can get ammo with either large pistol primers or small rifle primers. 338 Razorback starts with 10mm auto brass. ARC cartridges start with the 220 Russian case, which is also the parent cartridge of 7.62x39 and 6.5 Grendel. Advances in bolt tech from companies like Young Manufacturing and SixFive have fixed the original bolt breakage issues companies like Colt and PSA have.
@@lordhellfire153 You have the parentage backwards: 7.62x39 is the 220 Russian's parent, then the 220 influences the PPCs (22 and 6) and then 6.5 Grendel.
If the 1:3 twist is not what the bullets are made for then why don’t you as a ammo manufacturer build ammo for it? Is the case still too large with a 350 or larger projectile? I think that if you guys are not just being total dicks that you should make a 8.6 BLK subsonic load in something 350gr or larger. Just as a show of good faith to your customers that want that cartridge. It seems that all you want to do is tell us what to buy instead of selling us what we want to buy.
8.6 was devloped by Q, LLC so it wouldn't surprise me if they're demanding outrageous royalties for manufacturing right. That said, I agree with you. The twist rate thing doesn't pass the sniff test. That 1:3 twist makes 8.6blk extreamly efficient at transferring energy into the target where most sub sonic rounds just goosenecks on through. My suspicion is that the added energy provided by the .308 cartridge is needed to achieve such a rapid spin while still maintaining speeds that are just below sub sonic.
@@SimplestUsername They are not demanding outrageous royalties. Hornady makes the brass for Q's 8.6 Blackout and has no problem creating 8.6BLK ammo. They just can't. Like.... literally they're incapable. The problem is that Hornady's tolerances are terrible and 8.6BLK demands tighter tolerances because of the cartridge design, capacity, etc. The neck tension on the 8.6BLK has to be ~100lbs but the Hornady brass is coming in about 20-40lbs and that's simply not going to fly. That's just one example.
Can barely get 6 arc on the shelf . Or even brass for reloading . Yet another arc cartridge that will have 2 loads and be impossible to find. But good job on selling more uppers. 😂
I bought all my brass on gunbroker. And when 6mm arc would hit shelvea id buy 100 rounds at a time. I got a lifetime of brass and rounds of 6mm arc for what i need
brass and factory ammo is available at every single store in my area that sells ammo. Even Bass pro has 6 arc brass on the shelves. Go look again, this isnt 2022
I’m surrounded by big retail and smaller LGSs. We have 4 Sportsman’s Warehouses, Scheel’s, Cabella’s, and tons of LGSs. I’ve seen stacks of 6.5 Grendel, 6mm ARC, brass, primers, powder, and bullets for them all. My local grocery store even carries reloading supplies.
I love seeing new cartridges coming out like this. Super rad y’all. I do wish the bias didnt swing so hard towards 8.6 ARC in this video however. There’s pros and cons to both and it seems like y’all are trying to poo poo some of its advantages. The 1:3 twist isn’t “speculative” it creates much more energy and effect, despite the need for monolithic projectiles
The twist adds neglible energy. It does make expansion faster and possibly more reliable. But it has a downside, you can't use cheap plated bullets. So it makes ammo more expensive
@@jonathandebona8934 I don’t understand how energy that can spin a bullet apart is negligible when that is what you want the bullet to do inside what you are shooting at. It’s more expensive, very true. But to your point I’m sure the expense of 338 arc vs 8.6 blackout will also be negligible. These shits will cost some money like all hunting rounds and special cartridges. As long as it’s not 50 BMG, 338 lapua type shib, it’s fittna cost a lot to enter this game
@@T20-c8fbecause bullets aren't meant to be strong laterally so it requires little energy to rip apart especially after it expands. Is it easier to break a long stick or a very short one by grabbing the ends?
@@RCx44 we’re not talking about sticks we’re talking about energy bud. Only one way to settle this. We need hornady to show us on ballistic gel using subsonic of each at a the same grain weight. Then I’ll STFU if I’m wrong and put all your packers in my mouth
Have these guys even shot 8.6 blackout at distance, My Q fix is within MOA specs using 285 grain ammo! 338 ARC needed tobe 1 in 3 twist! total pass Hornady or until ya make projectiles made for 1:3 with barrels in 1:3 for 338 ARC!
I’d be interested, but, I don’t want to spend a grand on a .338 can. I’m already set up for 30 cal and below. There’s no reason to use 338 ARC without a suppressor. It’s a joke of a round as a super. I’m surprised you thought this was a good enough idea to bring to market. Seems like a good idea at first, then you realize you need to go buy a new suppressor for $1000 for it to make any sense, which makes no sense.
Considering it's subsonic, it's likely any non-aluminum 9mm suppressor would work with this, as many are already rated for 300 blackout subsonic and 357 magnum. It shouldn't require an expensive specialty can made for 338LM or similar.
Works with TBAC FLY9 Ti suppressors, which are meant for 9mm pistols and 300 Whisper. They handle supers and subs with pretty short barrels. It’s what Jayden said he’s using for the 338 ARC testing. The main reason for 338 ARC vs 300 Whisper is shooting effectively at distance, in addition to the noticeable impact energy on-target.
This is premature. You’re going to have to do side by side comparison testing to effectively compare and contrast the differences between these two. Just spewing out theoretical observations is not going to cut it.
THIS^. saying a lot of its features dont work or arent worth much but they have been proven otherwise. especially the bullets coming apart. kevin has even talked about how he disproved that
What bolt does this case use? Is it a one-off? Or is it an adaptation of something else? Quite honestly, 8.6 Blackout has become one of my favorite rounds. But, admitedly it is quite a bit heavier gun to tote around...
What role does this caliber fill that 300 blk and 8.6 blk doesn't? For hunting with subs your max distance is like 250 yards, but realistically 100 yards. There is no real trade off for the lack of terminal performance. The lack of versatility with subs and supers eliminates the hunting capability in states that have energy requirements. The only use case I see is long range sub sonic target shooting and it only sounds marginally better than 8.6 and 300 blk. I'm pretty disappointed that all you could come up with a 338 specter.
Hits harder than 300 BLK, fits inside the AR-15, uses commonly-available bolts and magazines (6.5 Grendel). So it’s more accessible to all the people who don’t have Q Money, and encourages more shooters to get suppressors.
Imagine talking shit about the 8.6 BO terminal performance when the thing has taken down Cape Buffalo and other African game and your round isn't even a proven concept yet... Yet again, we have Hornady so concerned about making another round that definitely isn't needed when they can't even keep their current ammo on the shelves properly. But why should they? If they did they did then people wouldn't be paying $3 a round for basic hunting ammo for things like the 308 / 6.5 creedmore. Thank god I reload for all my rifles...
My biggest beef with AR-10s is that they don't seem to be as homogenized as AR-15s. Seems like a lot of AR-15s have a lot of parts compatibility from one AR-15 manufacturer to another. Obviously not 100% as some manufacturers use proprietary parts. But the AR-10 seems to be even less 'parts-compatible' from manufacturer to manufacturer. I don't "run-and-gun", so a slightly heavier rifle doesn't have much practical impact on my shooting, since I'm mostly rucking my gear from the parking-lot to the shooting-lane.
The 1/8 twist is huge, because it allows you to use cheap bullets and cast boolits for fun, the rotational energy bs has been disproven plenty, it's basically a modern 338 specter, man I hate you guys but this one is a good one.
Look man, I love new caliber ideas but can we really not just keep edging up to 350 legend? At least with 350 you have more than 20 grains worth of case capacity and can push 2400+ fps with 150s. Reloading a 9mm/357 bullet I'm sure is phenomenally cheaper than any .338, and even off the shelf 350 FMJ is $0.75 CPR. Subsonic are $1.10 a round. This stuff is gonna release with $30 boxes fmjs, $40 box subs, and $45 a box hunting ammo for near identical performance. Shoot, if anyone could make 350 uppers as reliable as 300BO we could see both cartridges dead in the water just because 350s got so much more powder room when the bullets not 65% of the total projectile length 🤦🏼♀️
Sorry guys, I really like Hornady and you all definitely have a lot of great products and have really driven the industry forward at times, but not just going ahead and getting on board with 8.6 is disappointing. There are more and more firearms options becoming available on an almost weekly basis for the 8.6 at all price points, heck Rossi is offering a single shot rifle for 260 bucks now, but ammo is still only available from boutique manufacturers or by handloading. Truly feels like Hornady could have stepped in and really helped make 8.6 truly mainstream while also giving more improved ammo options, vs trying to release a new cartridge in search of questionable problems to solve.
Sorry but I like this cartridge being that it runs in an ar15 not ar10. there are many downsides to the 8.6 that this doesn't have as far as bullet types you have to use with 8.6 because of its way fast twist rates. But have fun with your 8.6. the only downside the arc has is not quite as fast of speeds with supers compared to the 8.6. But the benefits of being able to use any cup and core bullet and not having to worry about your bullet flying apart after it leaves the muzzle is a huge advantage and savings in cost.
Yeah but when you flip to supers in reference to case capacity the men it is used more to its full extent? I like 8.6 like the 300blk. It gives you power when going subsonic. Due to the weight of the projectile, and when you go super you gain some of the benefits, not nearly all, of the larger cases given it has more case capacity for that supersonic load. It takes the need away for multiple set ups, I can just plug and play. Or less!!!
That 308 will still be in service longer after 338 arc! He'll i have (2) 8.6s and (2) 300blks... but I'll still build a sole source 308 for reaching out and touching grass @ 900 yards!
338 and 8.6 are both the nichiest of niche chamberings. They’re mostly just “cool kid” rounds because anyone who actually hunts subsonic is almost certainly better served running 450bm or 45 Raptor or similar big-bore rounds. Plenty of mag capacity for intended uses and a lot more downrange energy out to 200y-300y. Better efficiency, lower muzzle cork pressure, already available, etc….
@@kevinbrittingham6774 175gr at 2075fps from a 16” barrel, 904ft-lbs at 300yds. So like a 44 Mag muzzle energy but at 300yds. There aren’t any common pistol cartridges that will shoot even a 90gr at 2075fps, let alone 175gr. The supersonic performance of it is way better than I expected.
😂 3:44 of a bullet maker wingeing about making a bullet to work in a fast twist 8.6 being too hard, so instead they decided to make a whole new gun 😂... Would have been nice to hear some numbers in this video about barrel lengths, velocities, and bullet types and weights... But alas, just blackout bad ARC good because AR15 good. That line works well with 6mm and the AR, not so well with .338 IMO.
The thing with 8.6 blk is super and subsonic... if the problem is case capacity then do some actual engineering and do some work to the internal case design like Q did.
@jjmckay6man1 for sure and alot of thr 8.6 ammo companies... the bullets are trash... zero neck tension on the solids so the push in going up the feed ramp not ideal...
Love Hornady and they have some of the best engineers and resources but seems like they have been chasing alot over the years. Sure you can convert some people and your products may very well be a better offering but, you guys have to get ahead of the game again. Set the standard.
I'm a Hornady ammo shooter and also own a 8.6 as well, make them both and let the consumer's decide what they want. Get a 3rd party ( not a Hornady sponsored shile) to compare both rounds SxS and let the results speak for themselves.
I’m not really sure where the comparison is. Maybe this is better as a true subsonic option and that’s fine and dandy. But the 8.6 most definitely is far far more deadly on target and has far more rotational energy creating that greater lethality even in subsonic loadings
I need to see actual real world expansion of the 307 grain Sub X bullet. I tried some 255 grain Sub X ammo in my 7.62x39. Huge disappointment, zero expansion and rather poor accuracy. Thankfully I only bought one box.
I'm also a consumer and have been studying 8.6blk for a long time. I have not invested in 8.6 for a few reasons, mainly overall cost to shoot, and I am glad I waited. I'm more in favor of 338 ARC for cost, big Mfr support, and AR15 compatibility.
Leave it to Hornady to more confuse the market with their gimmicky crap. I'm still butthurt that they banned civilians from buying 50 round boxes of Critical Duty. The only answer they ever gave was most people just want enough ammo to fill one mag. Which I understand, but they didn't have to down right ban civilians from buying 50 round boxes. More in that line of BS, a volunteer EMT or firefighter qualifies to buy the 50 round boxes. Pretty sure you can't shoot flames.
So with a speed limit of 1050 only way to get more energy is with a heavier bullet. with the dia being set your bullet gets longer with weight increase. max oal set by mag the extra bullet legnth can be used to fill case. So semi win to 8.6 for being able to use a 450 gr bullet?
the thing with 8.6 is that you can get both subsonic and supersonic out of the same cartridge. for purely subsonic of course it is to much case capacity.
I don't see the advantage in ballistics vs .458 socom. Really you are just gaining capacity. If you want capacity 300 blackout is probably a wiser choice. All that said I have a 6 ARC and I love it. I have never liked the 5.56
Sounds like Hornady would rather develop their own ar15 size 338 cartridge when there are untold thousands of 8.6 BLK users out in the wild. Calloway, Fort Scott and Gorrilla Ammo and many others have great solid copper offerings from 285 to 375 grain, so no problem. Yes we lost some bulky powders from makers in the last 3-4 years. However I imagine that Hodgden, Accurate, Alliant, Winchester, IMR, Vitavouri, Shooter World and many others will develop a replacement. Many 8.6 BLK guys reload so it will carry on. Have you even looked at all the 8.6 BLK single shot, Bolt and AR 10 rifles on the market Hornady? Hopefully AMMO Inc, AAC and Winchester are seeing this as a opportunity to step up as well. Maybe even Remington, Federal, CCI and the others being sold to Czechoslavakia may come out with some 8.6 who knows.
I waited before investing in the 8.6 and am very glad I did. faxon already has barrels for the 338 arc. Don't have to pay boutique ammo prices. Q should have had a real ammo producer on board before launch IMO. I'd rather have the capability in an AR15 platform then for the AR10 like the 8.6. Also with all the gun makers already on board with the other 2 arcs will be a breeze to make the 338 also in a micro sized action bolt gun.
@@jjmckay6man1 I also waited on 8.6 in hopes for something just like this. I have been creeping on 338 Specter and 338 Razorback groups learning about slow slug shooting, but I'm not a reloader (yet). The 338 ARC is exactly what I needed to plan my next build. I'm starting my research spreadsheet today.
@@Lukavich that's great! Yeah the only downside I see vs 8.6 is 338Arc super velocity is a couple hundred feet behind 8.6 velocity which to me is no big deal. There will be way more support for this cartridge than the blackout could have ever dreamed of on the launch. Hornady has a list on their website listing all the companies already producing barrels and other guns for this cartridge. Cheers and happy researching!
I dont get this need at all...Who needs low velocity...shoot 44 mag😂. Is this somekind of mens fashion thing going on .😄😄😄 I have idea for new caliber 10 mm super hyper LightsOut .
Talk is cheap !! Do a side by side comparison, and let's see the results. I have watched 8.6 on multiple channels, and it seems to perform exceptionally well.
Yeah, no, i'm still gonna pick 8.6 Blackout there. the Fast Twist requires bullets designed for it, yes, but it's allowing you to push very long bullets subsonically, while still staying stable, and ensuring that they expand. and because they're long, they have a longer distance available to expand. if i'm being honest, i'd have been on board if you'd kept the fast twist those really long, heavy bullets to reach out and do real damage. Not sold guys, this one's probably a miss. sorry.
@@boygonewhoopdataZZ Yeah, i'll give that a fair point. it's not built for the same bullet masses i suppose. Plus i also just prefer solid copper projo's in general
@@MegaAndy93 hey, i trust the ballistic gel tests, as well as the calculated. The cartridge seems to be a very good design to me. The guns from Q are... well, lets just say a bit extra. particularly the price.
Sounds like a healthy dose of Horse Sh💩t.. All 8.6BLK issues mentioned here are non-issues. If Hornady does not want to machine bullets to sustain 1:3 twist it’s fine, Discreet Ballistics, Gorilla among other manufacturers are producing enough ammo that doesn’t break apart. Could care less if SAAMI approval comes or not.
Guys are visual...how hard is it to cut to a picture showing the cartridges side by side...and then when talking about powder side by side deconstructed ?? Come on media director...
8.6 has its place as it’s like 300blk, can run both sub and supers and get amazing results doing it. 338arc sounds like its best left to be subsonic and that’s fine. I personally will try both but to trash another product to make yours seem good is not the move imo.
Don’t think it gained its popularity from the 22 ARC and 6 ARC, it is from the 8.6 blackout. Can’t wait till the next YQ when Kevin responds. It’s going to be epic!
Lead core and lead bullets in general should not be a consideration in any forward looking design. If you're looking for penetration, copper solids do it better. If you're looking for engineered fragmentation, copper is more predictable. Even engineered expansion does better with polymer tipped copper than lead center soft nose bullets. Lead is just awful in terms of contamimation, both terminally in what you eat and just the ground/water it falls in. It makes indoor shooting dangerous and everywhere dangerous if you're shooting hard cast. For something that is solely going to rely on subsonics because of the reduced case capacity, it will need all of the help it can get stabilizing super long projectiles and maximizing the inertial energy that projectile can carry with it. If you are going to shoot lighter bullets, you might as well just use .300 BLK, at least you'll have a useable supersonic capability.
Niche subsonic only round in poorly designed magazines with bolts prone to breaking. This lacks the load versatility of 300blk and 8.6blk, along with full capacity in solid standard AR15 and SR25 magazines, and the use of full strength bolts. Good luck with that mess
I don't recall them saying it was better. They said it's meant for people who want to use an AR15 platform. And they note that it addresses some potential downsides with 8.6. They are a company that is in business to make money...they are trying to do that. Capitalism used to be considered a good thing...🙄
Kinda feels a little try hard to me .... if I want subsonic with massive power factor, I will go with something in the 45 range... 458 SOCOM, 450 bushmaster etc etc ..... Its basically a oversized 300 blk
For what? Trying to make money? Do you dislike GM or Dodge or Ford for making a new pickup? That idea has been beaten to death...but noone complains. But God forbid a 2A company tries to make money with a new product.
@@ramseycattn5941 why, cuz q makes guns. hornady makes ammo. they pulled the saami application for 8.6 when they couldve supported both and for releasing it the same week as q drops the boom box, even when the round isnt ready until next spring
@@allthingsconsidered3211 Sounds like Hornady is doing it pretty damn smartly, then. Press releases against a competitors latest news is not a new marketing tactic. It's quite effective and 100% fair game. Why would they not do this? They are putting their support where they think the future of this market segment lives.
It’s making me dislike them also. They want the 6.8 western to go away instead of helping support it. They have 6 arc and very limited ammo available. Then release 22 arc still very limited ammo. They support 17 hmr but do not help support 17 wsm and it’s a better cartridge. I don’t blame them for wanting to make money but they need help Winchester and Browning because we need all of our manufacturers to survive. I believe Browning is chambering cartridges that they produce so it needs to be friendly competition. They could help support the 270wsm 7wsm and 300wsm and 17 wsm and the 6.8western because they are good cartridges and people have them that need ammunition. I liked hornady until they decided they wanted the 6.8 western to just go away.
@@Lukavich yeah but when the product you market against was something you supported and then kinda back stabbed..... then come out with content trying to crap on it with no proof bc you know it beats what you made.... thats shady
The .338 ARC uses junk curved ARC mags, that don't work well in ARs. The .338 ARC bolt face has to be opened up - no bueno. Q's Boombox weighs less than most AR-15s, so that sucks for the .338 ARC.
Weird. I wonder why all my Grendel mags work so well since 2009, to include CProducts, ASC, Elanders, Amend2, and Geissele. I’m shooting them through every barrel length there is, from 24” down to 8.5”, though I’m just getting the 8.5” set-up. I’ve been shooting 12” a lot since 2017, suppressed. Runs like a r 3 ped ape. I shoot a lot. I have moving boxes full of spent brass to prove it, along with heavily-dinged brass deflectors with no Cerakote or anodizing left across multiple 6.5 Grendel AR-15s.
FINALLY someone makes 8.6 in a smallframe AR.
There has been 338 Spectre (10mm Auto Mag or 6.8 Wildcat) and 338 Razorback cartridges that do this, but they didn’t have the engineering and testing capabilities that Hornady does. Those used 6.8 and 6.5 Grendel mags, very fun to shoot on steel. 338 ARC just makes it mainstream really with factory support from a big company.
Crazy how in this community, so many people get bent out of shape over a new product. Why are so many people threatened by something like this(or any other new cartridge)? I've never understood that. Are those same people mad when Ford comes out with a better truck than their 10 year old model? Or, maybe they don't like capitalism. If that's the case, they won't find much sympathy in this crowd.
Because people like to complain. Even before the internet people like to hate on calibers. I can’t remember which podcast, either hornady or vortex, but 270 win apparently got a lot of hate from old timers like the 6.5 CM gets today.
I just don't like Hornady products. And they just fudged with a 338 spectre and 338 Razorback and call it their own.
@JNOSNOW why bother even watching or commenting if you don't like hornady products 😂. Also, who cares who made it theres literally thousands of crossover cartridges and calibres.
@@Lethal_Intent gotta see all the claims straight from the donkeys mouth.
@@ramseycattn5941 Many ppl buy now. A few years latter they cry . They can not find ammo. But hey this is free world 😂😂😂
Hornady, please offer 8.6 Blk so we can compare and find out for ourselves.
what he's saying about 8.6blk having more than optimal case capacity for subs is true, but it was developed (like 300blk) to be used sub and super, so it's a compromise from the start. also, maybe you guys could take another look at your 45-70 sub-x load if you understand suboptimal powder charges? 405gr @1300fps is what the army was getting in 1860 with blackpowder, so 410gr @ 1050 is... anemic. really should be a 500+gr projectile to get the energy up and take up more case room.
Totally disagree. The 8.6 BO has too much case capacity for subsonic loadings for most of us that reload. We don't have high end factory powder blends. And having more case capacity doesn't just mean that you have a small charge in a giant case. It also means that it takes more powder(in that small charge) to get to 1050. That same small charge would be even smaller in a smaller case. Quiet subsonic have more to do with charge weight and barrel length than anything.
Cant wait to see Kevin whine & complain about this
I love all of my children.
Boombox is the dream gun!
hes already in the comments of the videos on it lol
@@ayegame2424 LOL you mean the troll account with 134 subscribers and 0 content lmao.
"This channel doesn't have any content"
Simple solution for 8.6. Make trail boss available again.
Wont ever happen. Trail Boss and H4895.
I just use Unique powder. Very similar performance.
@@JNOSNOW the only problem with unique is that you cannot load it in certain things like rifles less than 60% case capacity. That's why H4895 was so supreme.
@@Entertainment_Enterprise it only takes 13 grains in the 45-70 to get a 500 grain projectile to 1,050. It doesn't take much
When you release a new product, it should stand on its own merits, dont shit talk a completely different round trying to sell yours
>"the case capacity of 8.6 blackout is not optimised for subsonic"
The 8.6 blackout can take heavier bullets than the ARC, you can fill up empty space with proper powders or a larger bullet. This is not a real problem.
>"you dont need an ar10 platform for 338 subsonic, 1050 is 1050"
You can load longer, heavier subsonic bullets in the ar10 platform. This leads to more energy on target. You know this
>"spinning a bullet at 1/3 means bullets perform differently and you can have traditional cup and core bullets explode from rotation"
Q tests the vast majority of 338 bullets on the market, and modern high quality bullets dont have this problem.
If people want a ar15 catridge that is slightly bigger than subsonic 300blk, the 338 is cool. So is 338 spectre,350 legend,458 socom
If you want a 12in barrel bear gun with more supersonic muzzle energy than 308, that can switch to subsonics with heavy bullets and reliable expansion, the 8.6 it is
So I see nobody has improved on .458 SOCOM for subsonic performance. Good to know. Meanwhile, how far are people thinking they'll shoot these cartridges? I hope they have a darn accurate rangefinder if they think their group size past 200 yards is somehow important.
Sorry, but my 12" Q Fix in 8.6 black shooting Gorilla Ammunition 300gr SMK subs, 285gr Fracturing subs, and also 342gr Punisher subs all shoot 1 MOA or less. SDs are also 15 or less for all of those types. All are truly subsonic and extremely quiet with great terminal results. 210gr Barns TSX supers are also 1 MOA or less also with SD 15 or less.
I was really hoping Hornady would produce 8.6 BLK ammo. That being said, I am interested to see just what 338 ARC really can do vs 8.6 BLK. All we have here so far is talk. Put out some true comparisons so people can make informed decisions.
It won't be good with supers like the 8.6 it just doesn't have the case capacity. With Subs should be phenomenal though. Looking at the specs on hornady website for the 175 black line they only do 2075 fps. 16" barrel. Glad your Fix is working good for you. I'm just interested in the subs from the AR15 platform.
Yeah I gotta call cap on that 1 moa or less for all your subsonics u posted.
Because I’ve personally shot 300 SMKS from gorilla and seen others shoot what u posted and at best they were all 2.5-5moa.
The data I’ve seen is in 8.6 discords and Facebook groups.
On top of that Q has been ABSOLUTELY USELESS in terms of any trouble shooting and essentially has left us consumers to figure out how to solve their issues for them
@@Swissk31300BO also the Fix is not a sub moa gun
15fps SD at subsonic velocity is like 50fps SD for supers 😂😂😂
@@Swissk31300BOMy 16” 8.6 Fix shoots 1MOA (3 shot groups) at 100 yards with Gorilla 300gr SMK and 300gr Berger Hybrid. Best group so far has been 0.6MOA at 100 yards with the Bergers.
Why not a 1:6 twist?
300 blackout need a 1:5 so what do you think a heavier bullet need ?
I am very happy with my 8.6 Blackout, my sub handloads avg standard dev is 5-6fps, less than 1moa, I can also shoot Barnes TSX 210s in supersonic in it and I've shot plenty of game and they are devastating. Copper projectiles are all you need in my opinion and there are no issues with the 1 in 3 twist. I know you have to promote your new round, but I don't think your reasons against the 8.6 are solid.
Truly spoken. They could have just made an excellent 8.6 BLK offering, not come up with something proprietary that has already been proven to deliver sub-par results with a slower twist rate. 2010 called, they want their failed research back.
Why would you want to shoot solids tho. Expensive for no reason other than Kevin's dumb 1:3 twist idea.
@@fltmed this is different because it fits AR15 not AR 10. That is the point with this round. specifically with subs. Supers are anemic at 2075fps with 175 gr black line in a 16"barrel. subs in the AR15 is all I care about.
I’ve talked to a few suppressor manufacturers that have had to repair many suppressors due to bullets coming apart in the 1/3 twist of the 8.6 blkout. There is always room for improvement and superior products.
@@williamsonnie9935 Are they shooting solid copper bullets? Bolt or Semi-Auto? I have almost 2k rounds thru my 12" Q Fix with both the Short Chop and Porq Chop cans without any issues. Small sample of just one (mine) I know. Just curious what the variables that may be causing issues.
Stoked to see how this does not having to use an ar10 platform for 8.6 blackout. Would the 338arc bolt face work with my 6arc setup?
Yep
Well. Hornady for the win again. Stoked to see ga precision is now letting the 6gt go to market as well. Just sucks cause I ordered a whole seasons worth of 110 atip for next ag cup season.
So this requires a new barrel (obviously) new bolt... and new magazine. Thats alot of new! 300 blk and 8.6 just require a barrel swap! 338 arc not for me... but anyone who buys it... have fun and vote!
I top off the powder with cotton fluff to keep the powder against the primer.
The cotton burns and does not melt like polyfill
Hornady take my money$ I’m very excited for this.
"eh. Bullets are bullets." --Walter Chang
338 spectre has been out for years ar15 and good for subsonic. Good brass supply reasonable price. Seems like this is another rinse and repeat cartridge of something that already exists.
Will the Sub-X bullets handle 1:3 twist? All the other cup/core bullets I've loaded for subs function just fine, average around 1.5 MOA, and have been in the single digits for Std Dev and Extreme Spreads. Would love to try the Sub X too.
The 8.6 guys says it will. I don’t know though. I thought you could only use mono bullets with the 1:3 twist though
Subsonic… you’re fine. It’s when the velocities increase that separation occurs.
I’ve run lots of different stuff at 1000-1100… i won’t touch anything that’s not monometal above that. I like my cans to much.
@@jrca1406honestly it seems like I would have less trouble going with the .338 arc than going with the 8.6. AR 10s always seem to have more problems when building than AR15s
Very cool. I’m very interested in it for subsonic. I’d rather have a more efficient case and a lighter gun.
Hopefully good magazine manufacturers will be able to produce reliable .338ARC-magazines with the beautiful standard 5.56-curvature.
What magazines does it use?
What Bolts does it use?
What’s the Bolt life like?
What Silencer Caliber does it use?
What’s Brass life (reloading) look like?
What gun companies have signed on to make rifles (and “pistols”?
This smells a bit like “30 Super Carry”. A new caliber looking for a use case, that will have no platform support.
How does the 338ARD compare to “338 Spectre” or “338 Whisper 2”?
338 Spectre uses a 6.8spc or 10mm magnum case and a 6.8spc bolt head. This means you can get ammo with either large pistol primers or small rifle primers.
338 Razorback starts with 10mm auto brass.
ARC cartridges start with the 220 Russian case, which is also the parent cartridge of 7.62x39 and 6.5 Grendel. Advances in bolt tech from companies like Young Manufacturing and SixFive have fixed the original bolt breakage issues companies like Colt and PSA have.
The problem is 30 super actually had a use case.
@@lordhellfire153 You have the parentage backwards: 7.62x39 is the 220 Russian's parent, then the 220 influences the PPCs (22 and 6) and then 6.5 Grendel.
@@alexmorrison4145 no it didn't.
All of these are either answerable or by critical thinking on your end or look at Hornady's website.
If the 1:3 twist is not what the bullets are made for then why don’t you as a ammo manufacturer build ammo for it? Is the case still too large with a 350 or larger projectile? I think that if you guys are not just being total dicks that you should make a 8.6 BLK subsonic load in something 350gr or larger. Just as a show of good faith to your customers that want that cartridge.
It seems that all you want to do is tell us what to buy instead of selling us what we want to buy.
8.6 was devloped by Q, LLC so it wouldn't surprise me if they're demanding outrageous royalties for manufacturing right.
That said, I agree with you. The twist rate thing doesn't pass the sniff test. That 1:3 twist makes 8.6blk extreamly efficient at transferring energy into the target where most sub sonic rounds just goosenecks on through.
My suspicion is that the added energy provided by the .308 cartridge is needed to achieve such a rapid spin while still maintaining speeds that are just below sub sonic.
@@SimplestUsername They are not demanding outrageous royalties. Hornady makes the brass for Q's 8.6 Blackout and has no problem creating 8.6BLK ammo. They just can't. Like.... literally they're incapable. The problem is that Hornady's tolerances are terrible and 8.6BLK demands tighter tolerances because of the cartridge design, capacity, etc. The neck tension on the 8.6BLK has to be ~100lbs but the Hornady brass is coming in about 20-40lbs and that's simply not going to fly. That's just one example.
Can barely get 6 arc on the shelf . Or even brass for reloading . Yet another arc cartridge that will have 2 loads and be impossible to find. But good job on selling more uppers. 😂
I'd be surprised if they get anyone to sell 1000 barrels
I bought all my brass on gunbroker. And when 6mm arc would hit shelvea id buy 100 rounds at a time. I got a lifetime of brass and rounds of 6mm arc for what i need
Both 6mm and 22 ARC are available at BassPro. Saw them there just yesterday.
brass and factory ammo is available at every single store in my area that sells ammo. Even Bass pro has 6 arc brass on the shelves. Go look again, this isnt 2022
I’m surrounded by big retail and smaller LGSs. We have 4 Sportsman’s Warehouses, Scheel’s, Cabella’s, and tons of LGSs. I’ve seen stacks of 6.5 Grendel, 6mm ARC, brass, primers, powder, and bullets for them all. My local grocery store even carries reloading supplies.
I love seeing new cartridges coming out like this. Super rad y’all. I do wish the bias didnt swing so hard towards 8.6 ARC in this video however. There’s pros and cons to both and it seems like y’all are trying to poo poo some of its advantages. The 1:3 twist isn’t “speculative” it creates much more energy and effect, despite the need for monolithic projectiles
The twist adds neglible energy. It does make expansion faster and possibly more reliable. But it has a downside, you can't use cheap plated bullets. So it makes ammo more expensive
@@jonathandebona8934 I don’t understand how energy that can spin a bullet apart is negligible when that is what you want the bullet to do inside what you are shooting at. It’s more expensive, very true. But to your point I’m sure the expense of 338 arc vs 8.6 blackout will also be negligible. These shits will cost some money like all hunting rounds and special cartridges. As long as it’s not 50 BMG, 338 lapua type shib, it’s fittna cost a lot to enter this game
@@T20-c8fbecause bullets aren't meant to be strong laterally so it requires little energy to rip apart especially after it expands.
Is it easier to break a long stick or a very short one by grabbing the ends?
@@RCx44 we’re not talking about sticks we’re talking about energy bud. Only one way to settle this. We need hornady to show us on ballistic gel using subsonic of each at a the same grain weight. Then I’ll STFU if I’m wrong and put all your packers in my mouth
@@jonathandebona8934that’s not true
Have these guys even shot 8.6 blackout at distance, My Q fix is within MOA specs using 285 grain ammo! 338 ARC needed tobe 1 in 3 twist! total pass Hornady or until ya make projectiles made for 1:3 with barrels in 1:3 for 338 ARC!
25 Creedmoor for 2025!
really interesting how u giys drop this caliber (when its not ready) the same week as q annonces and releases the boom box
There was an industry trade show this week (NASGW)
I’d be interested, but, I don’t want to spend a grand on a .338 can. I’m already set up for 30 cal and below. There’s no reason to use 338 ARC without a suppressor. It’s a joke of a round as a super.
I’m surprised you thought this was a good enough idea to bring to market. Seems like a good idea at first, then you realize you need to go buy a new suppressor for $1000 for it to make any sense, which makes no sense.
It’s an expensive hobby so stop crying. Try collecting rocks instead.
Considering it's subsonic, it's likely any non-aluminum 9mm suppressor would work with this, as many are already rated for 300 blackout subsonic and 357 magnum. It shouldn't require an expensive specialty can made for 338LM or similar.
Works with TBAC FLY9 Ti suppressors, which are meant for 9mm pistols and 300 Whisper. They handle supers and subs with pretty short barrels. It’s what Jayden said he’s using for the 338 ARC testing. The main reason for 338 ARC vs 300 Whisper is shooting effectively at distance, in addition to the noticeable impact energy on-target.
This is premature. You’re going to have to do side by side comparison testing to effectively compare and contrast the differences between these two. Just spewing out theoretical observations is not going to cut it.
THIS^. saying a lot of its features dont work or arent worth much but they have been proven otherwise. especially the bullets coming apart. kevin has even talked about how he disproved that
@@ayegame2424 It has not been disproven. Faxon modified their recommended loadings specifically because early adopters were blowing bullets apart.
What bolt does this case use? Is it a one-off? Or is it an adaptation of something else? Quite honestly, 8.6 Blackout has become one of my favorite rounds. But, admitedly it is quite a bit heavier gun to tote around...
Grendel type 2/ARC
The same bolt as a 22 ARC, 6mm ARC, 6.5 Grendel, PPC.
What role does this caliber fill that 300 blk and 8.6 blk doesn't? For hunting with subs your max distance is like 250 yards, but realistically 100 yards. There is no real trade off for the lack of terminal performance. The lack of versatility with subs and supers eliminates the hunting capability in states that have energy requirements. The only use case I see is long range sub sonic target shooting and it only sounds marginally better than 8.6 and 300 blk. I'm pretty disappointed that all you could come up with a 338 specter.
so its "only" marginally better so they shouldnt do it? Do you know how capitalism works?
Hits harder than 300 BLK, fits inside the AR-15, uses commonly-available bolts and magazines (6.5 Grendel). So it’s more accessible to all the people who don’t have Q Money, and encourages more shooters to get suppressors.
Surprise! The Hornady video says that the Hornady product is better.
so they get to sell more of their own bullets and not have to come out with an offering just for 8.6
Imagine talking shit about the 8.6 BO terminal performance when the thing has taken down Cape Buffalo and other African game and your round isn't even a proven concept yet...
Yet again, we have Hornady so concerned about making another round that definitely isn't needed when they can't even keep their current ammo on the shelves properly. But why should they? If they did they did then people wouldn't be paying $3 a round for basic hunting ammo for things like the 308 / 6.5 creedmore.
Thank god I reload for all my rifles...
My biggest beef with AR-10s is that they don't seem to be as homogenized as AR-15s. Seems like a lot of AR-15s have a lot of parts compatibility from one AR-15 manufacturer to another. Obviously not 100% as some manufacturers use proprietary parts. But the AR-10 seems to be even less 'parts-compatible' from manufacturer to manufacturer.
I don't "run-and-gun", so a slightly heavier rifle doesn't have much practical impact on my shooting, since I'm mostly rucking my gear from the parking-lot to the shooting-lane.
I'll give this one a try for deer season next year. I need a reason to build a new upper.
The 1/8 twist is huge, because it allows you to use cheap bullets and cast boolits for fun, the rotational energy bs has been disproven plenty, it's basically a modern 338 specter, man I hate you guys but this one is a good one.
You say it's been disproven, but that's just not true. The terminal effects in gel, and on animals, don't lie dude
Will these work with the 6mm arc mags by geissele
Look man, I love new caliber ideas but can we really not just keep edging up to 350 legend? At least with 350 you have more than 20 grains worth of case capacity and can push 2400+ fps with 150s. Reloading a 9mm/357 bullet I'm sure is phenomenally cheaper than any .338, and even off the shelf 350 FMJ is $0.75 CPR. Subsonic are $1.10 a round. This stuff is gonna release with $30 boxes fmjs, $40 box subs, and $45 a box hunting ammo for near identical performance. Shoot, if anyone could make 350 uppers as reliable as 300BO we could see both cartridges dead in the water just because 350s got so much more powder room when the bullets not 65% of the total projectile length 🤦🏼♀️
what is the case based off of ??
6.5 Grendel necked up to 338.
Sorry guys, I really like Hornady and you all definitely have a lot of great products and have really driven the industry forward at times, but not just going ahead and getting on board with 8.6 is disappointing. There are more and more firearms options becoming available on an almost weekly basis for the 8.6 at all price points, heck Rossi is offering a single shot rifle for 260 bucks now, but ammo is still only available from boutique manufacturers or by handloading. Truly feels like Hornady could have stepped in and really helped make 8.6 truly mainstream while also giving more improved ammo options, vs trying to release a new cartridge in search of questionable problems to solve.
Sorry but I like this cartridge being that it runs in an ar15 not ar10. there are many downsides to the 8.6 that this doesn't have as far as bullet types you have to use with 8.6 because of its way fast twist rates. But have fun with your 8.6. the only downside the arc has is not quite as fast of speeds with supers compared to the 8.6. But the benefits of being able to use any cup and core bullet and not having to worry about your bullet flying apart after it leaves the muzzle is a huge advantage and savings in cost.
@@jjmckay6man1then just use 300
Black out lol ,
@@BossHugo84 why when I can have 1.5 times more energy on target. you use 300 crap out.
@@jjmckay6man1 because it just came out and for 1.5 difference you are going to pay way more for ammo .
@@BossHugo84 yeah right there ammo will be much more affordable than the 8.6 crapout. besides that I'm a reloader so can do it more cheaply.
Yeah but when you flip to supers in reference to case capacity the men it is used more to its full extent? I like 8.6 like the 300blk. It gives you power when going subsonic. Due to the weight of the projectile, and when you go super you gain some of the benefits, not nearly all, of the larger cases given it has more case capacity for that supersonic load. It takes the need away for multiple set ups, I can just plug and play. Or less!!!
Now i wish I wouldn't have bought a 308 can be this seems to be what I want.
You can get a TBAC FLY9 Suppressor and use it on 9mm pistols and 338 ARC.
That 308 will still be in service longer after 338 arc! He'll i have (2) 8.6s and (2) 300blks... but I'll still build a sole source 308 for reaching out and touching grass @ 900 yards!
338 and 8.6 are both the nichiest of niche chamberings. They’re mostly just “cool kid” rounds because anyone who actually hunts subsonic is almost certainly better served running 450bm or 45 Raptor or similar big-bore rounds. Plenty of mag capacity for intended uses and a lot more downrange energy out to 200y-300y. Better efficiency, lower muzzle cork pressure, already available, etc….
What about 8.6 super vs 338 super
338 arc super is basically a pistol round
@@kevinbrittingham6774 seems like it how about a boombox with a brace 👀
@@kevinbrittingham6774 175gr at 2075fps from a 16” barrel, 904ft-lbs at 300yds. So like a 44 Mag muzzle energy but at 300yds. There aren’t any common pistol cartridges that will shoot even a 90gr at 2075fps, let alone 175gr. The supersonic performance of it is way better than I expected.
@@LRRPFco52 sure. What is it out of 8”?
😂 3:44 of a bullet maker wingeing about making a bullet to work in a fast twist 8.6 being too hard, so instead they decided to make a whole new gun 😂... Would have been nice to hear some numbers in this video about barrel lengths, velocities, and bullet types and weights... But alas, just blackout bad ARC good because AR15 good. That line works well with 6mm and the AR, not so well with .338 IMO.
How does this compare to 338 Spectre?
Same performance but with Small Rifle Primers, no need to mess with cutting and necking-down brass.
The thing with 8.6 blk is super and subsonic... if the problem is case capacity then do some actual engineering and do some work to the internal case design like Q did.
you can run supers of arc as well just not to the same speeds as 8.6. I see way more benefits out of the arc than the 8.6.
Yeah Q just makes stuff and throws it out on the market...
@@sniperjoe yeah they talk about Qs research but they don't mention he didn't have ammo companies on board lmao.
Supersonic 8.6 makes zero sense
@jjmckay6man1 for sure and alot of thr 8.6 ammo companies... the bullets are trash... zero neck tension on the solids so the push in going up the feed ramp not ideal...
Love Hornady and they have some of the best engineers and resources but seems like they have been chasing alot over the years. Sure you can convert some people and your products may very well be a better offering but, you guys have to get ahead of the game again. Set the standard.
I'm a Hornady ammo shooter and also own a 8.6 as well, make them both and let the consumer's decide what they want. Get a 3rd party ( not a Hornady sponsored shile) to compare both rounds SxS and let the results speak for themselves.
I’m not really sure where the comparison is. Maybe this is better as a true subsonic option and that’s fine and dandy. But the 8.6 most definitely is far far more deadly on target and has far more rotational energy creating that greater lethality even in subsonic loadings
*I suggest calling it "The Chihuahua".*
I need to see actual real world expansion of the 307 grain Sub X bullet. I tried some 255 grain Sub X ammo in my 7.62x39. Huge disappointment, zero expansion and rather poor accuracy. Thankfully I only bought one box.
It is all fun to0 play with...I'd like a 5.45s barrel for a SKS for fun.
It boils down to another stack of ammo purchased and stored in addition to: .22LR, 5.56, 300BLK, 9mm...
44 mag, 44 special, all the shot shells, 357 mag, 5.7, 38 special, 7.62x39, 7.62x54r, 45acp, 380acp, 30 carbine, and so on…
As a consumer I don’t want 338 ARC. I want 8.6 Blackout offerings from Hornady.
I'm also a consumer and have been studying 8.6blk for a long time. I have not invested in 8.6 for a few reasons, mainly overall cost to shoot, and I am glad I waited. I'm more in favor of 338 ARC for cost, big Mfr support, and AR15 compatibility.
@@Lukavich this round wont be any cheaper
You’re gonna be waiting in line with all the people wanting 6.8 western ammo from them too.
@@ayegame2424yeah, it will
@davidhochstetler4068 go look at a ammo shelf sometime. Their prc lines and arc lines are always much more expensive
8.6 is what the people want
Forearm tattoos are tragic
you need the twist for the bullets to expand at sub sonic
Just give us a 50 whisper that runs in an ar10 already!
That will be new for 2030. C’mon man, patience.
Still taking 8.6blk over this but cool.
Make some 8.6 blkout
Leave it to Hornady to more confuse the market with their gimmicky crap. I'm still butthurt that they banned civilians from buying 50 round boxes of Critical Duty. The only answer they ever gave was most people just want enough ammo to fill one mag. Which I understand, but they didn't have to down right ban civilians from buying 50 round boxes. More in that line of BS, a volunteer EMT or firefighter qualifies to buy the 50 round boxes. Pretty sure you can't shoot flames.
Pretty shit of yall to work with q on bringing 8.6 then bail on the project to bring your own version
Shame on q for not listening to a massive amount of research by an ammo/ballistic company. Q should stick to making great guns no one can afford
@@aktideracer8710 I sure as shit can't afford one 🤣
DoD approached Hornady on this in 2016.
So with a speed limit of 1050 only way to get more energy is with a heavier bullet. with the dia being set your bullet gets longer with weight increase. max oal set by mag the extra bullet legnth can be used to fill case. So semi win to 8.6 for being able to use a 450 gr bullet?
here we go with these curved magazines again...
the thing with 8.6 is that you can get both subsonic and supersonic out of the same cartridge. for purely subsonic of course it is to much case capacity.
I don't see the advantage in ballistics vs .458 socom. Really you are just gaining capacity. If you want capacity 300 blackout is probably a wiser choice. All that said I have a 6 ARC and I love it. I have never liked the 5.56
Needs a 1:3 twist like the 8.6 black and 338 specter. Should have done a .50 arc for strait wall states
Nice. I'm in.
Sounds like Hornady would rather develop their own ar15 size 338 cartridge when there are untold thousands of 8.6 BLK users out in the wild. Calloway, Fort Scott and Gorrilla Ammo and many others have great solid copper offerings from 285 to 375 grain, so no problem. Yes we lost some bulky powders from makers in the last 3-4 years. However I imagine that Hodgden, Accurate, Alliant, Winchester, IMR, Vitavouri, Shooter World and many others will develop a replacement. Many 8.6 BLK guys reload so it will carry on. Have you even looked at all the 8.6 BLK single shot, Bolt and AR 10 rifles on the market Hornady? Hopefully AMMO Inc, AAC and Winchester are seeing this as a opportunity to step up as well. Maybe even Remington, Federal, CCI and the others being sold to Czechoslavakia may come out with some 8.6 who knows.
I waited before investing in the 8.6 and am very glad I did. faxon already has barrels for the 338 arc. Don't have to pay boutique ammo prices. Q should have had a real ammo producer on board before launch IMO. I'd rather have the capability in an AR15 platform then for the AR10 like the 8.6. Also with all the gun makers already on board with the other 2 arcs will be a breeze to make the 338 also in a micro sized action bolt gun.
8.6 won't make it 5 more years before it's a reloader only caliber.
That's what they get for buying half thought out Q products.
@@jjmckay6man1 I also waited on 8.6 in hopes for something just like this. I have been creeping on 338 Specter and 338 Razorback groups learning about slow slug shooting, but I'm not a reloader (yet). The 338 ARC is exactly what I needed to plan my next build. I'm starting my research spreadsheet today.
@@Lukavich that's great! Yeah the only downside I see vs 8.6 is 338Arc super velocity is a couple hundred feet behind 8.6 velocity which to me is no big deal. There will be way more support for this cartridge than the blackout could have ever dreamed of on the launch. Hornady has a list on their website listing all the companies already producing barrels and other guns for this cartridge. Cheers and happy researching!
I dont get this need at all...Who needs low velocity...shoot 44 mag😂. Is this somekind of mens fashion thing going on .😄😄😄 I have idea for new caliber 10 mm super hyper LightsOut .
Remember when Hornady was committing fraud by knowingly shipping ammunition with the wrong propellent??
Talk is cheap !! Do a side by side comparison, and let's see the results. I have watched 8.6 on multiple channels, and it seems to perform exceptionally well.
Nah bro, you just did Q dirty is all....
Soviets were way ahead with 9x39.
I bet 338 arc won't do same damage as 8.6 lol
Yeah, no, i'm still gonna pick 8.6 Blackout there. the Fast Twist requires bullets designed for it, yes, but it's allowing you to push very long bullets subsonically, while still staying stable, and ensuring that they expand. and because they're long, they have a longer distance available to expand. if i'm being honest, i'd have been on board if you'd kept the fast twist those really long, heavy bullets to reach out and do real damage. Not sold guys, this one's probably a miss. sorry.
8.6 blackout is a large frame ar, 338 arc uses small frame ar. 😅 two different beasts, its more of a 300 blackout killer than a 8.6
Q apologist spotted
@@boygonewhoopdataZZ Yeah, i'll give that a fair point. it's not built for the same bullet masses i suppose. Plus i also just prefer solid copper projo's in general
@@MegaAndy93 hey, i trust the ballistic gel tests, as well as the calculated. The cartridge seems to be a very good design to me. The guns from Q are... well, lets just say a bit extra. particularly the price.
@@etherealswordsman3214 They were all made for the owner's big game, Africa, and dangerous game hunts. Priced for the rich only.
I learned nothing from this video. It was just an 8.6BLK bashing session.. weak AF
It's a Hornady video about setting it's new round apart from it's main competition. What did you expect?
Sounds like a healthy dose of Horse Sh💩t.. All 8.6BLK issues mentioned here are non-issues. If Hornady does not want to machine bullets to sustain 1:3 twist it’s fine, Discreet Ballistics, Gorilla among other manufacturers are producing enough ammo that doesn’t break apart. Could care less if SAAMI approval comes or not.
Guys are visual...how hard is it to cut to a picture showing the cartridges side by side...and then when talking about powder side by side deconstructed ?? Come on media director...
8.6 has its place as it’s like 300blk, can run both sub and supers and get amazing results doing it. 338arc sounds like its best left to be subsonic and that’s fine. I personally will try both but to trash another product to make yours seem good is not the move imo.
What is the obsession with throwing heavy, slow moving slugs downrange? Both are a waste of resources.
338 spectre
Don’t think it gained its popularity from the 22 ARC and 6 ARC, it is from the 8.6 blackout. Can’t wait till the next YQ when Kevin responds. It’s going to be epic!
Lead core and lead bullets in general should not be a consideration in any forward looking design.
If you're looking for penetration, copper solids do it better. If you're looking for engineered fragmentation, copper is more predictable. Even engineered expansion does better with polymer tipped copper than lead center soft nose bullets.
Lead is just awful in terms of contamimation, both terminally in what you eat and just the ground/water it falls in. It makes indoor shooting dangerous and everywhere dangerous if you're shooting hard cast.
For something that is solely going to rely on subsonics because of the reduced case capacity, it will need all of the help it can get stabilizing super long projectiles and maximizing the inertial energy that projectile can carry with it. If you are going to shoot lighter bullets, you might as well just use .300 BLK, at least you'll have a useable supersonic capability.
Niche subsonic only round in poorly designed magazines with bolts prone to breaking. This lacks the load versatility of 300blk and 8.6blk, along with full capacity in solid standard AR15 and SR25 magazines, and the use of full strength bolts.
Good luck with that mess
John is butt hurt.
All anidotal. No real reasons why it’s better than 8.6. All you did was show why 8.6 is further ahead.
I don't recall them saying it was better. They said it's meant for people who want to use an AR15 platform. And they note that it addresses some potential downsides with 8.6. They are a company that is in business to make money...they are trying to do that. Capitalism used to be considered a good thing...🙄
The one that gets the same speed in a AR-15 is farther ahead.
8.6 shoots way heavier bullets.
Kinda feels a little try hard to me ....
if I want subsonic with massive power factor, I will go with something in the 45 range... 458 SOCOM, 450 bushmaster etc etc .....
Its basically a oversized 300 blk
"oversized 300blk".... I think that's a pro, not a con. 300 blk has always been said to be just a little underwhelming. Now 338 ARC is the answer.
I love 458 socom, but the capacity limit is the only detraction. 338 arc should be a nice subsonic intermediary between 300 Blackout and 458 socom
@@Lukavich to what exactly?
Can you double stack 458 or 45BM in 10-30rd mags?
@@LRRPFco52 how many 338arc will fit in a standard 5.56 mag?
KB dropped his vid, hornady doesn’t want any of that smoke!
this just makes me dislike hornady
For what? Trying to make money? Do you dislike GM or Dodge or Ford for making a new pickup? That idea has been beaten to death...but noone complains. But God forbid a 2A company tries to make money with a new product.
@@ramseycattn5941 why, cuz q makes guns. hornady makes ammo.
they pulled the saami application for 8.6 when they couldve supported both
and
for releasing it the same week as q drops the boom box, even when the round isnt ready until next spring
@@allthingsconsidered3211 Sounds like Hornady is doing it pretty damn smartly, then. Press releases against a competitors latest news is not a new marketing tactic. It's quite effective and 100% fair game. Why would they not do this? They are putting their support where they think the future of this market segment lives.
It’s making me dislike them also. They want the 6.8 western to go away instead of helping support it. They have 6 arc and very limited ammo available. Then release 22 arc still very limited ammo. They support 17 hmr but do not help support 17 wsm and it’s a better cartridge. I don’t blame them for wanting to make money but they need help Winchester and Browning because we need all of our manufacturers to survive. I believe Browning is chambering cartridges that they produce so it needs to be friendly competition. They could help support the 270wsm 7wsm and 300wsm and 17 wsm and the 6.8western because they are good cartridges and people have them that need ammunition. I liked hornady until they decided they wanted the 6.8 western to just go away.
@@Lukavich yeah but when the product you market against was something you supported and then kinda back stabbed..... then come out with content trying to crap on it with no proof bc you know it beats what you made.... thats shady
The .338 ARC uses junk curved ARC mags, that don't work well in ARs. The .338 ARC bolt face has to be opened up - no bueno. Q's Boombox weighs less than most AR-15s, so that sucks for the .338 ARC.
Weird. I wonder why all my Grendel mags work so well since 2009, to include CProducts, ASC, Elanders, Amend2, and Geissele. I’m shooting them through every barrel length there is, from 24” down to 8.5”, though I’m just getting the 8.5” set-up. I’ve been shooting 12” a lot since 2017, suppressed. Runs like a r 3 ped ape. I shoot a lot. I have moving boxes full of spent brass to prove it, along with heavily-dinged brass deflectors with no Cerakote or anodizing left across multiple 6.5 Grendel AR-15s.
Ever since you found out about 9x39
Lame ! they will both fail in a few years 👎
How so?
That's what everybody said about 300 BO too.
@@Lukavich just wait in a few years and you’ll never really hear about them they will fade away
@@jayfry905 that's not a believable answer.
@@Lukavich just wait I don’t need to convince you
@Hornady Manufacturing sign me up, Let's Go! 💯🇺🇲🏆