Very practical and real air world approach to slug finding. Watched scores of vids. This is the only one that put me in chill mode. The rest had me thinking about changing, lapping or de-choking my barrel even before I fired my first shot. Great point he makes about the 177 and lighter slugs. Wished I had seen this video months ago. Could have saved myself a lot of time and head stress.🤣
@@ShootingTargets727 Thanks for the reply. I came across an interesting " Rule of thumb" principle while researching rifle ballistics shortly after watching your slug selection approach. And it only confirms the validity of your method: " The heavier the slug/bullet, the shorter the twist. And the lighter the slug the longer the twist." The established principle is that heavier slugs/bullets require a high rate of spin to stabilize their flight than lighter ones. And of course this leads automatically to the three main factors affecting the rate of spin in an air rifle: Barrel twist rate, barrel length and the slugs velocity. Now I think al watch your video again. Its a confidence builder.
@@raymondclifton2440 Raymond thanks for watching. Also just a note... be careful on applying fire arm ballistics with airgun ballistics. Just an FYI some things just do not seem to equate 1 to 1. We are dealing with so much less power and force with these air rifles although it is very good knowledge sometimes it leads to pulling your hair out.
excellent! another ”Real world” video. wisdom from everyday airgunning.i agree on this, have been shooting my fx royale in .22 like this for years now.tuned to 865 with the jsb18,13 pellets i shoot what the barrel fancy, what dont shot good i dont use. this also includes jsb knock outs 25,39 gr slugs which seems to work ok for hunting up to max 30 yrds, they do around 810-820 fps with my tune ( iguess, i have no chrono yet) but a good way to see whats working in my riffle and whats not. the day i get a chrono i can fine tune. did tune the 18,13 down from 890 to 865 and they tightened up in my old smoothbore barrel so i guess i stay there with my preefered ones, the 18,13s. and i stay away from the not good shooting ones with this ”permanent” tune. thanks for splendid content, keep them coming. cheers from FX country 👍🔫🇸🇪☀️
I agree with many of the parameters you suggest in finding the best tune for slugs. One of the most important factors I have found is finding the best harmonic nodes for the slug you are trying to shoot accurately. What most people do is to find the best diameter, weight, barrel twist rate and speed to shoot a given slug. The problem arises when the barrel harmonics is not at the minimum when the slug leaves the barrel giving you very large group sizes. Most people will try to minimize this by adjusting the velocity of the slug. This can result for some not being able to shoot at the highest power level desired. What I did at first was to first make my own harmonic tuner weight to attach to the barrel shroud of my FX Impacts. This allowed me to use the basics parameters above then apply an efficient tune for a desired velocity. Then I would move the weight forward or to the rear till the best groups were achieved. I have since installed the FX Integrated tuner shrouds to my two FX Impacts and the removable one to my FX Maverick in addition to carbon fiber sleeves to my liners to further dampen the barrel harmonics. I recently shot my Maverick in .25 cal. for groups with the Zan 35 grain slugs with the installed removable tuner. The tuner is divided in eight large sections and I shot eight three shot groups at 50 yards at the evenly spaced segments around the tuner. The group size range from 2" plus down to less than 1". I then determined the most accurate groups were at the marks number 5 and 6. At that point I shot three more three shot groups at the marking graduations 5.25, 5.50 and 5.75 with the groups at 5.25 giving me clover leaf group. Using these harmonic tuners by FX has allowed me to accurate groups for a given slug with my rifle tuned at desired velocity. This can be done with less time and slug cost overall. I think people will find in many instanced that slugs they thought were not accurate can be if the use these harmonic tuners.
Yea, it becomes as you know like a science part. I tried many ways. Sometimes you kind of wander how much effort for how much result. As you pointed out if you can get a system in place it helps a ton. Interesting method you have. Also thanks for watching and thanks for writing.
I got the Avenger in .25 fortunately this non chocked no crown having barrel is shooting the FX hybrids one hole at 25 yards and I get dime size at 100, with my Reg at 2800 tuned for the 34.95 grain JSB’s at 850 fps so the hybrids are 26 grain and over 1000 fps I’m happy
That avenger is a good platform for those who have learned about pneumatic rifles coming from center fire, it’s challenging for us new to the PCP world
Here's some food for thought for The Redwolf. I have things that work very well, but my gold standard for my gun is without contest the 26 grain Griffin dish base. Now I know you said you shoot the Knockouts sub moa and that's great, but my gun doesn't care for them, and I believe for me it's the shape, more specifically the length. The reason for this is because our "Pellet probes are probably different length. When I load a Knockout, it feel like I am pinning against the rifling like how a tool is held in a lathe I guess would be a good description. Now what's interesting is that the Griffins are physically much longer but still work flawlessly and this is because the profile is completely different, they are much pointier, for lack of a better term, and feed just fine. I've found dish bases to work best for me to a certain length. So what I'm suggesting is that the pellet probes will only allow for a certain tolerance, with your chamber and gun. Pellets have the hollow skirt and take the redesigns for example, they are deep hollow. So you are actually pushing a slug, especially a flat base much further into the barrel. There is actually a Daystate accuracy tune where they will tweak the Probe length to accommodate a specific projectile. I think this is a bigger deal than some might suspect. You need to know your tolerances, and test slug shapes and lengths around what you know is not too long let's say, and too long might just be a probe thing.
Raven very interesting. I take it the Red Wolf Hp is not stock? I have heard good things about Griffin ammo and would not mind trying them out but my .22 red wolf hp is stock hmmm? Thoughts on if they would work ? Also any calculated BC for that round ? Can I get a link ? Thanks again ....
@@ShootingTargets727 Absolutely, 26 Grain Griffin Dish Base is G1 .089 BC and .0788 Sectional density, Length is 0.338". My friend has a Brocock and I believe it is the same Poly barrel that you have. 1-17.7 twist Im 90 percent sure. He also shoots the Griffins better than anything else we have tried. He mostly shoots the HN 25 grain but that's neither here nor there. This link is to the Dish base .22 category in .217, again I resize to 5.50 5.49ish but that's not for everyone. The pellets base shoots almost as well the flat base shoots great too but take them out to 100-140 yards and the dish base really separates itself from the flat base, not sure about the pellet base because I haven't got that far, I know they group very tight at 42 yards but I have them here for the right day for long range testing. Again, I'm talking about the 26 grain, but you're welcome to try anything you want. Personally, I would stick to the dish base and even Dubber has said the exact same thing when designing there new stuff. griffinairgunammo.com/collections/217-slugs/products/griffin-slugs-22-caliber-217-dish-base-22-32-grain-100-ct
@@ShootingTargets727 Also, if you look at you're probe with the magazine out and the bolt open, you can get an idea how much longer it could possibly be before the magazine would not be able to insert. For me it's probably the thickness of a nickel or better. But I think it's perfect for what it's perfect for and that's about it. maybe that's diving a little deep but I'm a rabbit hole kinda guy.
@@ShootingTargets727 I have installed a Heliboard and a lot of polishing this and that, PRS short throw lever. I have ordered another pellet probe to mess with since you can't go back once you try something. I am not a machinist or a know it all but I do like to understand things the best I can. The guys at Griffin told me I can stabilize up to a 38 grain slug with my twist rate, I have 0 intentions on slinging that much lead so twist rate isn't even a factor, just an afterthought for the above questions. Your twist rate is slightly faster than mine and our velocity differences will almost produce the same spin on the projectiles, so there is no need to even factor that in in my opinion. Other than that, trial and error.
@@ravenshield7823 Ok, yea my .22 redwolf hp only has the stock board. What I read from you thou is I still should be able to sling those 26 grains with enough power to make it work right ? Thanks again.
I just did an unboxing video for this rifle that I bought, but in all reality this is a hunting rifle, am I going to be hunting, perhaps not, why did I buy this rifle because of the power and I also like reaching out as far as I can, and you know what makes things a little more difficult, if the gun is not regulated, however your video was very educational and I will put that method to work, when tuning my rifle, thank you very much for your info.
If the .177 barrel has a 1:18 twist(fx Superior) then 13grain slugs wil be the only slug that works. If you want to use heavier slugs you need closer to 1:14 twist to make em work.
Just some more food for thought. In order for a slug to be stable, it must have a Gyroscopic Stability factor of at least 1.00, or it will tumble, and so too much spin will introduce other problems. When I calculate, or look at what strelok has to say about my slugs, most come up as 1.89 or over 2.00, which is higher than you want because your velocity decreases faster than the spin so the negative effects. if any, will only get worse at distance. What's interesting about the Griffin slugs I love, come up as a 1.6 and it might be the reason I have such great success with them. Anyway, from what I understand this is exactly what FX is addressing with their slug guns and liners by reducing the twist rate.
@@ShootingTargets727 I talked to the Griffin guys about this and this was his reply. "Stability factor can be tricky to interpret and is also not necessarily the dominant factor for achieving accuracy. There are a lot of thing that all work together. My slug desing was intended to be a blend of good form factor(better BC's) and a hollow point that will still reliably expand. The desing has a longer nose with a smooth blended ogive. The effect of that is if you look at other 26gn slugs they will have a shorter over all length. When we make "lighter" slugs there is a trade off game because you need a certain amount of Barring Surface(the flat sides of the slug) for it to load and chamber concentric to the bore and fire straight. Its a much longer story, but some what shorter is. In a nut shell shorter more blunt slugs will have higher higher stability numbers. But that's based on the Miller Twist rule wich only takes into acount basic geometric shapes. It does not account for hollow points, cavities, density changes or many other factors can also play a role. Is stability factor of 2.0 too high? Not really in my opinion it my not be the most deal for long range due to spindrift. Gyroscopic stability factor is basically telling you the Gyroscopic effects vs mass and form factor. A stability factor of 1 means the forces are 1 to 1= stable flight. Going beyond 1 gives more stability then the minimum required. I find stability factors of 1.3 to 1.6 to be the sweet spot for long distance. Ther are advantages to going above 1.6 and below 1.3 for hunting applications. Increasing the Gyroscopic force a lot like 2.5 and up will actually increase the expansion of a hollow point. It will also increase spin drift at distance. And going the other way to 1 to 1.2 the slug will typically destabilize after impact and start tumbling. This can be extremely effective for hunting big game. The down side is you can get an irratic aerodynamic jump and precision in high winds." Well I hope this makes some sence 😆 I got a little carried away.
@@ShootingTargets727 Like I said I'm a rabbit hole kinda guy. I don't mean to be a pest, but I will add, the 23 cup base equate to a 1.55 GS. They are on the way so that will be an interesting test.
was struggling to get 13gr/20gr H&N slugs and even wildman slugs to work in my177 mavrick(stock) for 1 month. tuning the gun and got smaller groups but not FX great groups. then i got myself 13gr ZAN slugs and the group was just one big hole at 50meters whitout tuning.
Ok I have something to ask everyone says that you have to shoot slugs at 950-1000+ fps but what if your gun is tuned at its max power and it only shoots 800 fps ?? Can you still shoot slugs ??
Generally speaking slugs take more power so if you are shooting at say 800fps with pellets you will need more power or your slug will shoot much slower say 657 fps. You can try it and see if it works. Really I do not believe that 1000fps is needed. I have seen time and time again slower slugs with good accuracy even down in the 600fps. Others will disagree.
This great video just popped up again in my feed, so I had to watch it twice lol. Jay I noticed you said the gun was tuned for 30 caliber. Did you change the hammer weight before you started shooting .177? Maybe that’s why you had a spread from the mid 800s to over 1000. Also anything above 90 bar on the reg for 10.3 pellets might be too much. But to be honest with you am not impressed with FXs .177 guns, especially the mavericks, impacts etc. Don’t know what’s going on but they don’t group as good as the other calibers of the same guns. I am talkin distances from 35 to 50 yards. 25 yards is too close imo but yeah you can save yourself a lot of hassles by eliminating junk ammo at that distance. It doesn’t mean though the pellet that shot well at 25 will do the same at 35 or 40.
Yea nothing was changed with the rifle. There are a few different types of tunes. One is a specific tune for best accuracy and slug the other is the tune for easy of use and accuracy. The first sure you can get the regulators, micro adjusters to really do a great job on ammo but from some of my experience the round has a low tolorence level meaning anything gets slighly out of wack yoru accuracy suffers. The other tune in this video is just finding the most tolerant slug in the worst conditions so I did not really care about oo much of the setting. It really is just testing the slug/barrel in worst type of conditions and it gets better from there. Hope that makes sense.
Excellent common sense information. After a lot of experiments and frustrating tests with .177 slugs and pellets I'm now down to one pellet and one type of slug, Jsb heavies and Zan 13g. Even with these the temperature variances cause change but by sticking with my 2 best performing choices its minimum work to optimize again. Well done on that video 👍. Hopefully viewers will take on board the content. Then have minimum head scratching moments in the future.
😊 sir please help me Iam using the fx maverick 177 Bilow 20 juls.fixd regulater pressure 100 bar. I want to 100+meeters dedli accurate grouping. Wich slug using to me better sir. Pls answer me sir
For me, I would start with the 13 grain zans or the 13 grain knockouts. To me those are the most accurate out of the many .177 rifles I have shot. The second is the 10 grain knockouts and the 10 Grain zans.... The rest of the .177 come in at a distant second in about all rifles.
So I took the 23 Griffins out to 120 yards this evening, on shot to gauge the wind then nailed the drop down, reset, Killshot, reset Killshot, reset, rinse and repeat. Just smitten with them. I can't thank those guys enough for making something so special. It's been a hell of a frustrating ride looking for answers, 26 grain 23 grain griffins is all she wants to do what I want. I finally said the hell with it, and ordered a Brocock Commander XR for plinking and shouldering which is what I prefer over bench shooting anyhow, I just can't shoulder that Wolf to save my ass, and I don't need to be slinging all kinds of lead for plinking, she can stay a bench gun and be special at that. Now I can start the process over lol, what an asshole I am to myself, I guess I'm just happy to know there is answers you just got to keep looking. Not trying to plug businesses on your platform but I got to say, AOA didn't have the full black one I ordered but upgraded me to the CeraKote one for free and added the side Picatinny rails for free, 310 dollars Xtra. Dope!
@@ShootingTargets727 Yes sir, .22, resized to 5.49- 5.50 ish, I say "ish" because my 5.50 resizer is actually tighter than my 5.49 resizer by an extremely thin margin. And I don't know if it's because one is loose, or one is tight lol, I have calipers but it's a lot harder to get an accurate measure than it should be. I ordered The Commander XR from Air guns of Arizona, today. AOA, most people call it.
ahh well a group I shoot with has a few. Here is what I found just us local guys. Heavy liners can sometimes improve with heavy slugs but not the hybrids or pellets. So it is a toss up make sure you know what you want to shoot most. My buddy has switch back to the stock liner because he just did not think it was worth the air consumption. Think for additional 10% fpe you burn 20% more air. 20% increase in power 40% more air. I am on the fence on heavy slug liners, I do not have anything against them just turns your rifle into a more specific tool and removes the all around features. Just my experience.
I am sure this wont be the last time I replay this. 10 to 13gr is all that i will try. If it does not work. I go no further. And start testing a suitable pellet for my hunting range. Then save my money for a barrel designed to love slugs as much as only the hunter can.
@@ShootingTargets727 Yes. I particularly liked the results you got with the 10 & 13grs. I will try as many brands of them as I can get hold of. But I just love your idea about finding a slug, or pellet, that shoots well over a largish range of fps. Just makes so much sense for bird hunting or general target practice. Can only imagine the pain and disappointment of those poor hunters that tune their gun around a slug that makes them think they fired a blank at a pheasant at 40 yards. All because the air temp was off by 5 degrees. I spent years trying to get my CZ 22 rimfire to shoot straight. Only to find that my Bow was more accurate. Thanks again.
I like your channel, but your information on slug speed vs accuracy was way off . the fact is you will shoot tighter group over 1060 fps .Fx does not have the capability to shoot those speeds .watch the video , the most accurate slug airgun in the world.
ahh James you are ahead of me. My future videos will be discussing REAL SLUGS and not these hybrids. I probably should of mentioned it to people but REAL slugs are much heavier, have a better BC and take more power. So for the sake of simplicity I kind of grouped the hybrid, jsb knockouts, zans, nielsons that are lighter in nature as slugs and well maybe not really 100% accurate. So I want to show people in an upcoming video some 308 slugs with a bc of .5 and about 200 FPE now we are talking. As far as speed goes, Matt duber and the boys would have everybody believe that you need super fast speeds on the javlines and some of these hybrids. I have tried and tried all types of speeds simplicty sake if you find a middle ground and it likes your barrel vs others that do not then go with that one. My buddy has .177 20 grain zans his impact loves at only 650 fps. It is hole in hole at 25 yards crazy accurate. Not to say it would not perform the same at a higher speed it is a matter of testing out your rifle with harmonics and how well the barrel likes the hybrid. Hope this makes sense. I will agree to disagree on the speeds because I have just seen so many experiences where the 1050 fps did not make any difference and in fact hurt my hybrid accuracy. Thanks for chiming in..... Will do more testing.....
Interesting video and I read all the comments as well! Good stuff! Thanks for posting!
Hey thanks for watching
Very practical and real air world approach to slug finding. Watched scores of vids. This is the only one that put me in chill mode. The rest had me thinking about changing, lapping or de-choking my barrel even before I fired my first shot. Great point he makes about the 177 and lighter slugs. Wished I had seen this video months ago. Could have saved myself a lot of time and head stress.🤣
ahh yea, I think we have all been there. Thanks for watching....
@@ShootingTargets727 Thanks for the reply. I came across an interesting " Rule of thumb" principle while researching rifle ballistics shortly after watching your slug selection approach. And it only confirms the validity of your method: " The heavier the slug/bullet, the shorter the twist. And the lighter the slug the longer the twist." The established principle is that heavier slugs/bullets require a high rate of spin to stabilize their flight than lighter ones. And of course this leads automatically to the three main factors affecting the rate of spin in an air rifle: Barrel twist rate, barrel length and the slugs velocity. Now I think al watch your video again. Its a confidence builder.
@@raymondclifton2440 Raymond thanks for watching. Also just a note... be careful on applying fire arm ballistics with airgun ballistics. Just an FYI some things just do not seem to equate 1 to 1. We are dealing with so much less power and force with these air rifles although it is very good knowledge sometimes it leads to pulling your hair out.
De chocking? They spent a lot of time engineering the barrel.
excellent! another ”Real world” video. wisdom from everyday airgunning.i agree on this, have been shooting my fx royale in .22 like this for years now.tuned to 865 with the jsb18,13 pellets i shoot what the barrel fancy, what dont shot good i dont use. this also includes jsb knock outs 25,39 gr slugs which seems to work ok for hunting up to max 30 yrds, they do around 810-820 fps with my tune ( iguess, i have no chrono yet) but a good way to see whats working in my riffle and whats not. the day i get a chrono i can fine tune. did tune the 18,13 down from 890 to 865 and they tightened up in my old smoothbore barrel so i guess i stay there with my preefered ones, the 18,13s. and i stay away from the not good shooting ones with this ”permanent” tune. thanks for splendid content, keep them coming. cheers from FX country 👍🔫🇸🇪☀️
Hey much thanks for watching and the kind comments. !!
Hola amigo. Su explicación es tan clara que valdría para todo tipo de pcp. Un saludo desde España.
I agree with many of the parameters you suggest in finding the best tune for slugs. One of the most important factors I have found is finding the best harmonic nodes for the slug you are trying to shoot accurately. What most people do is to find the best diameter, weight, barrel twist rate and speed to shoot a given slug. The problem arises when the barrel harmonics is not at the minimum when the slug leaves the barrel giving you very large group sizes. Most people will try to minimize this by adjusting the velocity of the slug. This can result for some not being able to shoot at the highest power level desired. What I did at first was to first make my own harmonic tuner weight to attach to the barrel shroud of my FX Impacts. This allowed me to use the basics parameters above then apply an efficient tune for a desired velocity. Then I would move the weight forward or to the rear till the best groups were achieved. I have since installed the FX Integrated tuner shrouds to my two FX Impacts and the removable one to my FX Maverick in addition to carbon fiber sleeves to my liners to further dampen the barrel harmonics. I recently shot my Maverick in .25 cal. for groups with the Zan 35 grain slugs with the installed removable tuner. The tuner is divided in eight large sections and I shot eight three shot groups at 50 yards at the evenly spaced segments around the tuner. The group size range from 2" plus down to less than 1". I then determined the most accurate groups were at the marks number 5 and 6. At that point I shot three more three shot groups at the marking graduations 5.25, 5.50 and 5.75 with the groups at 5.25 giving me clover leaf group. Using these harmonic tuners by FX has allowed me to accurate groups for a given slug with my rifle tuned at desired velocity. This can be done with less time and slug cost overall. I think people will find in many instanced that slugs they thought were not accurate can be if the use these harmonic tuners.
Yea, it becomes as you know like a science part. I tried many ways. Sometimes you kind of wander how much effort for how much result. As you pointed out if you can get a system in place it helps a ton. Interesting method you have. Also thanks for watching and thanks for writing.
I got the Avenger in .25 fortunately this non chocked no crown having barrel is shooting the FX hybrids one hole at 25 yards and I get dime size at 100, with my Reg at 2800 tuned for the 34.95 grain JSB’s at 850 fps so the hybrids are 26 grain and over 1000 fps I’m happy
wow excellent !
That avenger is a good platform for those who have learned about pneumatic rifles coming from center fire, it’s challenging for us new to the PCP world
Here's some food for thought for The Redwolf. I have things that work very well, but my gold standard for my gun is without contest the 26 grain Griffin dish base. Now I know you said you shoot the Knockouts sub moa and that's great, but my gun doesn't care for them, and I believe for me it's the shape, more specifically the length. The reason for this is because our "Pellet probes are probably different length. When I load a Knockout, it feel like I am pinning against the rifling like how a tool is held in a lathe I guess would be a good description. Now what's interesting is that the Griffins are physically much longer but still work flawlessly and this is because the profile is completely different, they are much pointier, for lack of a better term, and feed just fine. I've found dish bases to work best for me to a certain length. So what I'm suggesting is that the pellet probes will only allow for a certain tolerance, with your chamber and gun. Pellets have the hollow skirt and take the redesigns for example, they are deep hollow. So you are actually pushing a slug, especially a flat base much further into the barrel. There is actually a Daystate accuracy tune where they will tweak the Probe length to accommodate a specific projectile. I think this is a bigger deal than some might suspect. You need to know your tolerances, and test slug shapes and lengths around what you know is not too long let's say, and too long might just be a probe thing.
Raven very interesting. I take it the Red Wolf Hp is not stock? I have heard good things about Griffin ammo and would not mind trying them out but my .22 red wolf hp is stock hmmm? Thoughts on if they would work ? Also any calculated BC for that round ? Can I get a link ? Thanks again ....
@@ShootingTargets727 Absolutely, 26 Grain Griffin Dish Base is G1 .089 BC and .0788 Sectional density, Length is 0.338". My friend has a Brocock and I believe it is the same Poly barrel that you have. 1-17.7 twist Im 90 percent sure. He also shoots the Griffins better than anything else we have tried. He mostly shoots the HN 25 grain but that's neither here nor there. This link is to the Dish base .22 category in .217, again I resize to 5.50 5.49ish but that's not for everyone. The pellets base shoots almost as well the flat base shoots great too but take them out to 100-140 yards and the dish base really separates itself from the flat base, not sure about the pellet base because I haven't got that far, I know they group very tight at 42 yards but I have them here for the right day for long range testing. Again, I'm talking about the 26 grain, but you're welcome to try anything you want. Personally, I would stick to the dish base and even Dubber has said the exact same thing when designing there new stuff. griffinairgunammo.com/collections/217-slugs/products/griffin-slugs-22-caliber-217-dish-base-22-32-grain-100-ct
@@ShootingTargets727 Also, if you look at you're probe with the magazine out and the bolt open, you can get an idea how much longer it could possibly be before the magazine would not be able to insert. For me it's probably the thickness of a nickel or better. But I think it's perfect for what it's perfect for and that's about it. maybe that's diving a little deep but I'm a rabbit hole kinda guy.
@@ShootingTargets727 I have installed a Heliboard and a lot of polishing this and that, PRS short throw lever. I have ordered another pellet probe to mess with since you can't go back once you try something. I am not a machinist or a know it all but I do like to understand things the best I can. The guys at Griffin told me I can stabilize up to a 38 grain slug with my twist rate, I have 0 intentions on slinging that much lead so twist rate isn't even a factor, just an afterthought for the above questions. Your twist rate is slightly faster than mine and our velocity differences will almost produce the same spin on the projectiles, so there is no need to even factor that in in my opinion. Other than that, trial and error.
@@ravenshield7823 Ok, yea my .22 redwolf hp only has the stock board. What I read from you thou is I still should be able to sling those 26 grains with enough power to make it work right ? Thanks again.
God stuff. You can literally go mad trying to figure out all the combinations and factors and I believe nobody ever can.
100% man... it gets deep and you can go crazy and broke to say the least.. Also thanks for watching.
I just did an unboxing video for this rifle that I bought, but in all reality this is a hunting rifle, am I going to be hunting, perhaps not, why did I buy this rifle because of the power and I also like reaching out as far as I can, and you know what makes things a little more difficult, if the gun is not regulated, however your video was very educational and I will put that method to work, when tuning my rifle, thank you very much for your info.
Dexter, you bet and again thanks for watching !
If the .177 barrel has a 1:18 twist(fx Superior) then 13grain slugs wil be the only slug that works. If you want to use heavier slugs you need closer to 1:14 twist to make em work.
Just some more food for thought. In order for a slug to be stable, it must have a Gyroscopic Stability factor of at least 1.00, or it will tumble, and so too much spin will introduce other problems. When I calculate, or look at what strelok has to say about my slugs, most come up as 1.89 or over 2.00, which is higher than you want because your velocity decreases faster than the spin so the negative effects. if any, will only get worse at distance. What's interesting about the Griffin slugs I love, come up as a 1.6 and it might be the reason I have such great success with them. Anyway, from what I understand this is exactly what FX is addressing with their slug guns and liners by reducing the twist rate.
Very good information looking into this... Thanks again....
@@ShootingTargets727 I talked to the Griffin guys about this and this was his reply.
"Stability factor can be tricky to interpret and is also not necessarily the dominant factor for achieving accuracy. There are a lot of thing that all work together. My slug desing was intended to be a blend of good form factor(better BC's) and a hollow point that will still reliably expand. The desing has a longer nose with a smooth blended ogive. The effect of that is if you look at other 26gn slugs they will have a shorter over all length. When we make "lighter" slugs there is a trade off game because you need a certain amount of Barring Surface(the flat sides of the slug) for it to load and chamber concentric to the bore and fire straight.
Its a much longer story, but some what shorter is. In a nut shell shorter more blunt slugs will have higher higher stability numbers. But that's based on the Miller Twist rule wich only takes into acount basic geometric shapes. It does not account for hollow points, cavities, density changes or many other factors can also play a role.
Is stability factor of 2.0 too high? Not really in my opinion it my not be the most deal for long range due to spindrift. Gyroscopic stability factor is basically telling you the Gyroscopic effects vs mass and form factor. A stability factor of 1 means the forces are 1 to 1= stable flight. Going beyond 1 gives more stability then the minimum required. I find stability factors of 1.3 to 1.6 to be the sweet spot for long distance. Ther are advantages to going above 1.6 and below 1.3 for hunting applications. Increasing the Gyroscopic force a lot like 2.5 and up will actually increase the expansion of a hollow point. It will also increase spin drift at distance. And going the other way to 1 to 1.2 the slug will typically destabilize after impact and start tumbling. This can be extremely effective for hunting big game. The down side is you can get an irratic aerodynamic jump and precision in high winds."
Well I hope this makes some sence 😆 I got a little carried away.
@@ravenshield7823 Yep, I was researching the topic as well thanks for the information ....
@@ShootingTargets727 Like I said I'm a rabbit hole kinda guy. I don't mean to be a pest, but I will add, the 23 cup base equate to a 1.55 GS. They are on the way so that will be an interesting test.
Nice video but just a question for a 177 slug do you think 3mm transfer port or 4mm is the best?
wow cant answer that one..... wish I could...
was struggling to get 13gr/20gr H&N slugs and even wildman slugs to work in my177 mavrick(stock) for 1 month. tuning the gun and got smaller groups but not FX great groups. then i got myself 13gr ZAN slugs and the group was just one big hole at 50meters whitout tuning.
Yea, my guess is once you found the zans everything came together pretty easy right ?? Its like magic sometimes. Thanks again for watching by the way.
Ok I have something to ask everyone says that you have to shoot slugs at 950-1000+ fps but what if your gun is tuned at its max power and it only shoots 800 fps ?? Can you still shoot slugs ??
Generally speaking slugs take more power so if you are shooting at say 800fps with pellets you will need more power or your slug will shoot much slower say 657 fps. You can try it and see if it works. Really I do not believe that 1000fps is needed. I have seen time and time again slower slugs with good accuracy even down in the 600fps. Others will disagree.
@@ShootingTargets727 👍 thank you
This great video just popped up again in my feed, so I had to watch it twice lol. Jay I noticed you said the gun was tuned for 30 caliber. Did you change the hammer weight before you started shooting .177? Maybe that’s why you had a spread from the mid 800s to over 1000. Also anything above 90 bar on the reg for 10.3 pellets might be too much. But to be honest with you am not impressed with FXs .177 guns, especially the mavericks, impacts etc. Don’t know what’s going on but they don’t group as good as the other calibers of the same guns. I am talkin distances from 35 to 50 yards. 25 yards is too close imo but yeah you can save yourself a lot of hassles by eliminating junk ammo at that distance. It doesn’t mean though the pellet that shot well at 25 will do the same at 35 or 40.
Yea nothing was changed with the rifle. There are a few different types of tunes. One is a specific tune for best accuracy and slug the other is the tune for easy of use and accuracy. The first sure you can get the regulators, micro adjusters to really do a great job on ammo but from some of my experience the round has a low tolorence level meaning anything gets slighly out of wack yoru accuracy suffers. The other tune in this video is just finding the most tolerant slug in the worst conditions so I did not really care about oo much of the setting. It really is just testing the slug/barrel in worst type of conditions and it gets better from there. Hope that makes sense.
Excellent common sense information.
After a lot of experiments and frustrating tests with .177 slugs and pellets I'm now down to one pellet and one type of slug,
Jsb heavies and Zan 13g.
Even with these the temperature variances cause change but by sticking with my 2 best performing choices its minimum work to optimize again.
Well done on that video 👍.
Hopefully viewers will take on board the content. Then have minimum head scratching moments in the future.
yea thats the plan for me 1 pellet and 1 slug tuned. Also thanks for watching !
I agree.
😊 sir please help me
Iam using the fx maverick 177
Bilow 20 juls.fixd regulater pressure 100 bar.
I want to 100+meeters dedli accurate grouping.
Wich slug using to me better sir. Pls answer me sir
For me, I would start with the 13 grain zans or the 13 grain knockouts. To me those are the most accurate out of the many .177 rifles I have shot. The second is the 10 grain knockouts and the 10 Grain zans.... The rest of the .177 come in at a distant second in about all rifles.
@@ShootingTargets727 thanks sir
You bet...@@faijaskhan3406
So I took the 23 Griffins out to 120 yards this evening, on shot to gauge the wind then nailed the drop down, reset, Killshot, reset Killshot, reset, rinse and repeat. Just smitten with them. I can't thank those guys enough for making something so special. It's been a hell of a frustrating ride looking for answers, 26 grain 23 grain griffins is all she wants to do what I want. I finally said the hell with it, and ordered a Brocock Commander XR for plinking and shouldering which is what I prefer over bench shooting anyhow, I just can't shoulder that Wolf to save my ass, and I don't need to be slinging all kinds of lead for plinking, she can stay a bench gun and be special at that. Now I can start the process over lol, what an asshole I am to myself, I guess I'm just happy to know there is answers you just got to keep looking. Not trying to plug businesses on your platform but I got to say, AOA didn't have the full black one I ordered but upgraded me to the CeraKote one for free and added the side Picatinny rails for free, 310 dollars Xtra. Dope!
raven, where did you get your xr from ? Also what caliber you shooting .22 i take it ? Thanks for the information and watching ....
@@ShootingTargets727 Yes sir, .22, resized to 5.49- 5.50 ish, I say "ish" because my 5.50 resizer is actually tighter than my 5.49 resizer by an extremely thin margin. And I don't know if it's because one is loose, or one is tight lol, I have calipers but it's a lot harder to get an accurate measure than it should be. I ordered The Commander XR from Air guns of Arizona, today. AOA, most people call it.
It would be funny if you called them up and cancelled the order lol.
@@ravenshield7823they are my favorite dealer!
Do you have the heavy slug liner? They recently released them and they do perform better with the slugs.
ahh well a group I shoot with has a few. Here is what I found just us local guys. Heavy liners can sometimes improve with heavy slugs but not the hybrids or pellets. So it is a toss up make sure you know what you want to shoot most. My buddy has switch back to the stock liner because he just did not think it was worth the air consumption. Think for additional 10% fpe you burn 20% more air. 20% increase in power 40% more air. I am on the fence on heavy slug liners, I do not have anything against them just turns your rifle into a more specific tool and removes the all around features. Just my experience.
Hey thanks for watching !
I am sure this wont be the last time I replay this. 10 to 13gr is all that i will try. If it does not work. I go no further. And start testing a suitable pellet for my hunting range. Then save my money for a barrel designed to love slugs as much as only the hunter can.
Sounds like a plan. I know much effort can be wasted with little to show when we really push for something that just not fit !! Been there....
As always thanks for watching......
@@ShootingTargets727 Yes. I particularly liked the results you got with the 10 & 13grs. I will try as many brands of them as I can get hold of. But I just love your idea about finding a slug, or pellet, that shoots well over a largish range of fps. Just makes so much sense for bird hunting or general target practice. Can only imagine the pain and disappointment of those poor hunters that tune their gun around a slug that makes them think they fired a blank at a pheasant at 40 yards. All because the air temp was off by 5 degrees. I spent years trying to get my CZ 22 rimfire to shoot straight. Only to find that my Bow was more accurate. Thanks again.
@@raymondclifton2440 Thanks for the kind words. . Take care.
I was thinking, you still have to test a lot of pellets or slugs to know what your gun likes, (yes)
Yes, still alot of work ......
Good info 👍
Thanks for watching !
Lol I'm a 2 percenter I guess, I'm programing my Heliboard and looking at 5 fps extreme spread at the moment. I can't help it.
lol yep you do you !
You want precision, get a good barrel. PERIOD.
Thanks for contributing to the video and thread.
I like your channel, but your information on slug speed vs accuracy was way off . the fact is you will shoot tighter group over 1060 fps .Fx does not have the capability to shoot those speeds .watch the video , the most accurate slug airgun in the world.
ahh James you are ahead of me. My future videos will be discussing REAL SLUGS and not these hybrids. I probably should of mentioned it to people but REAL slugs are much heavier, have a better BC and take more power. So for the sake of simplicity I kind of grouped the hybrid, jsb knockouts, zans, nielsons that are lighter in nature as slugs and well maybe not really 100% accurate. So I want to show people in an upcoming video some 308 slugs with a bc of .5 and about 200 FPE now we are talking. As far as speed goes, Matt duber and the boys would have everybody believe that you need super fast speeds on the javlines and some of these hybrids. I have tried and tried all types of speeds simplicty sake if you find a middle ground and it likes your barrel vs others that do not then go with that one. My buddy has .177 20 grain zans his impact loves at only 650 fps. It is hole in hole at 25 yards crazy accurate. Not to say it would not perform the same at a higher speed it is a matter of testing out your rifle with harmonics and how well the barrel likes the hybrid. Hope this makes sense. I will agree to disagree on the speeds because I have just seen so many experiences where the 1050 fps did not make any difference and in fact hurt my hybrid accuracy. Thanks for chiming in..... Will do more testing.....
I don't shoot at -5 degree ANYTHING.....celsius or Fahrenheit lol
Not my choice either but you know... I sadly have and everything seems off at the coldness. Thanks for watching.....
@@ShootingTargets727 Actually I do, we all probably do, addicts lol
Great video, keep up the good content!!