Less than ten years ago there were people laughed off chemistry forums on a weekly basis for asking for an easy and safe way to make sodium metal. It was thought impossible outside of electrolysis. Sure showed em. Menthol brings this to a new level of accessibility.
Good god.. u know, this REALLY makes me wonder what catalytic process menthol plays in cigarette smoke. I mean i kniw that sounds like im making a joke, but seriously
@@alllove1754 9 out of 10 doctors prefer menthol cigarettes. That makes them as good as medicine, unless you go to the 1 out of 10 doctors that don't work for us. There are always some crackpot doctors that will say something different than what we've demonstrated as scientific fact. We paid for all this research, so we trust the shit out of it, and you should too.
@@buckstarchaser2376 my man, i dont NOT trust it! Thats the only cigs i ever smoke, when i do. I have a pack if kools menthol sitting in a drawer for the last two months, having one whenever theres the right beer combo. Im not a person of blind faith so much when it comes to science, so much as i am one that believes in the double blind studies. Having said that, i switched to the vape several years ago, occasionally desiring the maoi induced effects only a proper nh3 dipped freebased nicotine taylor made offers us. Do you smoke?
You sir are an inspiration, I never learned chemistry in school and I didn't realize what a fascinating subject it was untill I stumbled across your channel years ago. I am now doing research on modified high pH stöber reactions which do not use TEOS or TMOS or any other complex silane, I never would have made it this far without you. Thanks
When looking at this video and thinking how easy it is to make sodium, remember that a professional PhD chemist spent more than a year of his free time to perfect the process and especially to find a suitable and commonly available catalyst.
Have fun chemistry extremely interesting I've been learning as much as I can over the last couple years I seem to be getting more and more into it because I love doing
Glad to see this project entering its final stages. A far cry from its somewhat pessimistic beginnings. It’s amazing to see scientific discovery documented AS it happens.
This is exceptional, I've been following you for years, even long before Patreon existed and you were fully stuck because you couldn't keep on doing these experiments. I knew that you always wanted to have some sort of breakthrough experiment, and, I think, this could be it. You've worked for years on this, and I've seen the failures, the successes, the trials and tribulations and the all-out "giving up" stage. I'm so happy that you managed to see this through to a reasonable conclusion. Sodium metal access to the amateur opens up so many opportunities for new chemists to perfect the art, through having purer end results, to higher yields, to actually being able to do things without shedding hundreds on chemicals that they can't afford on a budget to fuel a hobby passion. So well done to you sir, you've done the exceptional! Congratulations!
As a chemist myself I take off my hat to you sir for your persistent and dedication ..... Hope you can publish this and get the recognition you deserve for an excellent application of science and chemistry ...
A few tips discovered the hard way: Mg powder/dust requires exceptional magnetic stirring or an overhead stirrer because it tends to form a sludge. Mg shavings don't pack well which means they stir poorly and require a very large flask. Mg turnings or chopped up Mg ribbon is the best compromise, although good stirring is still required. Use a large, strong stir bar that covers almost the entire diameter of your flask. If you use an undersized stir bar, poor stirring will cause undisturbed pockets of Mg that ultimately forms aggregates. This slows the reaction and, more seriously, traps the stir bar and forms localized hot spots which will overheat and crack the flask. I had this happen and the bottom of the flask cracked after about 24 hours at 200 C. I'm not sure if my stir bars are unusually shitty but despite being PTFE they were wrecked (dark black) at the end of this 24 hour reaction. If the reaction fails be very careful during cleanup as you're faced with the task of digging chunks of unreacted Mg aggregates out of the flask which are also coated in small globules of sodium. This can easily burst into flame if any moisture hits it, which is a very bad thing if it happens inside the flask. Hydrogen + flame + glass vessel with a narrow neck = exploding glass.
It's not your stir bars being shitty necessarily, it's a problem that Nurdrage discovered in one of his research vids when he was running the reaction with different alcohol solvents - I believe the sodium itself is actually attacking the PTFE in some way, one of the only things that will do that. I would need to go back and find which vid he said that in though.
This could be my problem… I ground my magnesium up very fine and I can’t even get the experiment off the ground period… I guess I should start with a larger stirrer and not grind up my magnesium next time
I'm having this problem. I used a belt-sander to grind fire-starter magnesium blocks into a powder. What I have is more like magnesium wool. What a pain in the ass! This crap doesn't stir for anything. Stirring is absolutely necessary, or the reaction stops, and the vent tube starts sucking up the bubbler oil. I'm having to babysit this brew, tinkering with it every 5min to keep a small magnet bead synced with the motor. Even then, most of the magnesium is sitting on the bottom perimeter of the flask. Ugh! 😣 On the other hand, I am getting tiny beads of sodium forming at way less than 200°C. I think the increased surface area of my magnesium is allowing the reaction to happen at a lower temperature ≈ 130°C.
Wow that sounds even more ground up than mine… yea, I found the more fine it is, the harder it is to stir. I’m going to try using chips next time or else get a top stirrer with a strong motor. That seems the best approach but would take some ingenuity to get the tube and temp all in there as well
What I ended up with was an unknown quantity of very fine beads of sodium. I'm going to have to make some dioxane in order to try to separate the sodium. Meanwhile, I found a ¼" drill bit makes a nice sized chip, for a lot less work. So I'm going to try another run using these "turnings".
Pro tip: cheap magnesium can be found at scrap/junk yards in the form of wheel rims. Ask if you can buy broken mag rims, as these only have scrap value.
Yeah, "anyone". Yet, well into the 21st century, NurdRage was the first to have it figured out. Pay some respect for the attempts and failures of our ancestors and never consider things that are emerging only just now, simple.
Anyone COULD have figured it out, just by going through the same scientific steps that he did to test his process. What was once complex is now simple. In this case it wasn't done because the amateur chemist community simply was, well, too amateur. They focused too much on the how of it (magnesium + sodium hydroxide + catalyst) without giving any attention to the why of it at any point, and that's how NurdRage was himself able to figure it out. @@bormisha
Ok, I'm stumped. What exactly is the menthol doing in this process? Is it passing through some kind of alkoxide intermediate before the sodium is reduced?
NOOO!!! I HAVE RUINED YOUR LIFE!!! CHEMISTRY IS A SATURATED FIELD WITH NO JOBS! YOU ARE DOOOOOOOOOOMEEEEDDD1!11!!!!!11! :) Congrats on the degree, i wish you success in all you do!
Congratulations on getting this process boiled down to a tutorial. It's been an amazing journey, and I'm grateful that you've taken us all along on the ride with you. Keep being awesome :D
Very nice work! I would advise anyone trying this to always cut sodium UNDER mineral oil. This will reduce the amount of oxidation and also minimize the risk of ignition. Cheers!
You're thinking of potassium. I've never had sodium ignite while cutting. Even with old, dry or large samples. I have with potassium though. Nothing like cutting 100 grams of potassium and it instantly melts and catches fire. Out of the dozens of kilos of sodium that I've handled and cut, nothing even remotely similar has ever happened.
I have studied chemistry around 5 years ago and wanted to make sodium. Since the existed methods were hectic and I gave up. Here after 5 years I'm an electronic engineer, hardly do anything with chemistry. Seeing this made me give production of sodium another shot! Well done! You deserve a medal for this!
His magnum opus an easy, safer, practical, and available method of making sodium metal probably the first substantial scientific achievement done entirely through UA-cam
Yeah, a process anyone could have figured out ;-) You have the absolute right to be a bit smug. Knowing how to make sodium this way is neat. Had this been presented at the start as fait accompli, it would have been a good video. As a finale to a research project that you shared with all of us along the way it's brilliant. I don't know that there's another project that's been done like this. This was real science with a new discovery at the end that will very likely get some people interested in chemistry and other research science fields as a possible carreer. I know if I were teaching chemistry, this could easily be used as part of the curriculum. Bravo!
You amaze me with the ingenuity in your videos, not only are you skilled but I had no idea you could make sodium without electrolysis. These aren't just replicating papers, you're truly making strides in the field which is hard enough in a professional lab let alone an amateur. As a professional in biology with a passion for amateur chemistry, I don't fully get everything you talk about but I get enough to see how cool your videos are!
Difficult to obtain Tetraflorboric dioxo .....and.... It Menthol. And it's hypoallergenic baby oil. I still can't believe it. I watched it 3 times. Bonus: You can mix the two leftovers two in a warm solution to soothe sore muscles. Thank you for all your hard work and just putting it out there.
A fantastic process. I have used this according to the protocol shown, for the production of both sodium and potassium. Both with good results. The only modifications I used was to cut the Mg ribbons with a pair of scissors, and to use twice the amount of oil. For potassium production I didn’t use any jump start material, and for the sodium production only 0,5 g sodium. Although I used the same flat bottom flask for both experiments, there was no visible glass deterioration. I used unopened, lab quality, NaOH and KOH, so the amount of adsorbed moisture was minimal.
@nurdrage Finally got a chance to make some sodium using this method! I found that you don't need consistent stirring! As long as you break everything up after the first 4 hours or so you're good! I also predried my NaOH somewhat which made it so the jumpstarter quantity wasn't needed or could be reduced significantly and it didnt etch my glassware! Thank you so much for your perseverance and knowledge!
I gave this a go, once hydrogen production had stopped I had a grey liquid which I expected would be a total failure but to my surprise I had several small lumps of sodium and one very large one that I had to chop to remove from the flask! I started with 5g sodium and ended up with 15g... great process!
I really enjoyed this series, seeing how you overcame the obstacles and optimized to make it accessible to those with a small budget using readily available ingredients. It was a lot more useful and interesting to me than the standard chemistry cooking shows. Thanks also to those who helped fund the research. I don't know if it possible, but I would like to see a series on making non-recreational drugs. I take a 50+ year old antidepressant, tranylcypromine, that has gone from about $40/mo to $300/mo in about a decade. Of course I'd never take something I cooked up myself, but it would still be interesting to see for educational purposes.
Its a legitimate question for the amateur chemist. Some people here on YT are referring to KNO3 as "potassium based oxygen" instead of "potassium nitrate" to avoid the great YT intellectual clean-sweep. A lot of chemistry channels have been shut down (RIP chemplayer) while others making actual literal bombs (King of Random) are chugging along just fine.
Making it right now, up to 200 and bobble are pretty nice 1/ sec. Using powdered magnesium so hoping I am finishing in 15 hours! boy are those lithium batteries a pain to open up! Thanks a lot Nurd Rage, really enjoy your videos, you Nile Red, Cody etc all very inspiring.
I would think the foil would radiate heat, not insulate it. Will never forget my High School chemistry teacher (a baseball coach doing it for the first time) taking a large cylinder of sodium out of the mineral oil, and slicing a loooong thin wafer out of it - I tried to say something before he dropped it into the 10 gallon aquarium full of distilled water in front of him and was shushed. Grabbed a plastic binder and held it in front of my face in time to keep from getting splashed - the teacher, who had *leaned over the aquarium to watch the reaction* (fortunately wearing safety glasses) was drenched.
@Prince Bumpkin I understand the rest (although I certainly couldn't have put it so well) but you say "the aluminum is thermally reflective" - my understanding is it's one of the most thermally conductive metals, thus I'd think that it would act to speed up the loss by radiation on the outer surface area. I'm not understanding how it can be both conductive and reflective. Is it that the loss is more than offset by the gains from the other aspects?
@@TitanUranusOfficial It's thermally conductive in the sense that heat in the form of thermal vibration (random motion of the atoms) that's already in the aluminium can easily move about inside it. It's also shiny so heat in the form of radiation (infrared or visible light) can't easily get into it to become thermal vibration, and thermal vibration can't get out to become radiation.
This series has been truly amazing, seeing more of the behind the scenes work and thought processes provides quite a lot of valuable information that normally isn't readily available. I can't wait to see the advanced video.
@@NurdRage I kept up with the series for months, I think I can handle a wait. Thank you so much for all of your work. Edit: In hindsight I probably should have worded this a bit differently.
respect to this mans research, and to his dissemination of his results. Chemistry and astronomy are possibly the two areas where a talented person can add to the knowledge base meaningfully and even outperform groups with backup and research funding.so often the little players are scoffed at. give this man a team of undergrads and a few million (chickenfeed in relative terms) and im sure vhe could give many research groups a run for their money and possibly a few tearful thoughts about a change of career. well done
Well done! It’s been awesome watching the process! Most of all, thank you for making the extra effort to publish the full scientific process which is so important for aspiring STEM enthusiasts to see - especially the “failures” you had as this is where the gold truly lies.
"And that is how you make sodium. As you can see, it's a very simple and straightforward process that anyone could have figured out." You can be a real bastard sometimes, you know that? xD
I'm wondering if it will work with Triphenylmethanol as catalyst. I have quite a lot of it, as it was the first Grignard reaction I did. Would also be quite easy to dry, as it is a solid. I will be testing it soon, but first the mineral oil has to arrive. What is also quite interesting is, that these procedure can also be used to make rubidium and cesium from the corresponding hydroxides. And for sure potassium, as this was the first use for the reaction before NurdRage used it for sodium.
Thank you so much for your work on this(and in general, your channel too) After a lot of toying with the idea of getting into amateur chemistry, this video got me to go and buy some equipment and begin this project. Boy the garage smells minty.
Your videos and research have inspired me more than you’ll ever know. Chemistry has always been a curiosity for me. I have no formal education in the subject, and I have been educating myself. I watch your videos, and have been working my way through several college chemistry textbooks for about 2 years now. I’ve built a somewhat impressive amateur laboratory complete with fume hood. I’ve managed to produce such things as HNO3, luminol, hydrazine sulfate, TATP, thermite, smoke bombs, glacial acetic acid, hot ice, and a whole lot more. Thank you for what you do. You are an inspiration to those of us trying to learn chemistry.
I've got some old books from the early 1900's and they had published instructions for parlour tricks using this commonly available metal. How times have changed. It must have been an interesting world to walk down to your local drug store or hardware store and buy materials for hobbyists.
This was the first channel that intrigued me about chemistry some 6 years ago. So wonderful to see you fire up this channel once more. Thank you, and I look forward to more wonderful videos from you whenever you get the chance!
Great summary of the process. I suppose in a mass-production scale using the melt-float-cut separation process to extract the magnesium could be done by a machine under oil. Then again so could the dioxane method. So what are you going to revolutionize next? If you could extract Aluminium that could be incredible for reducing global CO2 emissions. Magnesium too.
Random eBay store: you gonna order more than 5g of our expensive sodium? Nurd Rage: nah... thanks for the jump start sodium! Random eBay store: jump... start?
OK, so I think that this prep needs one major change which is to perform the steps in a deconstructed fashion. The major reason for this is that "hypoallergenic" baby oil isn't necessarily free of unwanted compounds. In my case, I was able to get 'equate' brand hypoallergenic baby oil but it still had fragrance in it. Whatever the reason, I ended up with the same problem as last time which is that, after the initial formation of the alkoxide, the sodium production would go for a while and then stall. Adding in more menthol produces a lot of gas for a short time only. I assume that once the formation of the alkoxide dies down, the gas stops because the sodium producing reaction never re-starts. The one-pot design is great but considering how finicky the reaction is, I don't think it's worth it especially considering that the starting materials aren't strictly defined (relative to an in-depth paper). This is what I recommend: * First dry the oil with sodium metal. I just processed three bottles of the oil in a couple of batches with a 1L beaker. Leave the sodium in there a while and also bring the oil to the melting point of sodium for at least an hour. In my case, this produces the expected flakes of NaOH pretty quickly. However, after some more time, a significant amount of a yellowish-orange compound will precipitate out. If you do not pre-treat the oil, this reaction will happen during sodium production. In my case it appears that this yellow compound either suppresses the reaction, destroys the catalyst, or both. I strongly suspect catalyst destruction. * Charge a small beaker with approx. 50ml of the dried oil, a gram of sodium metal, and a few grams of menthol. Stir fast enough to agitate the sodium for about an hour. The metal should get shiny and then dull and tan colored. The oil will become hazy. * Charge your reaction flask with the NaOH and a few grams of sodium and dry with slowly increasing heat as per NR's videos. Once the lye starts to become translucent and wants to cling to the glass, slow down the heat increase. Watch the glass and if lye is sticking around on one spot too long, just pick up the flask and manually agitate it until it's free of any clinging NaOH and resume. Once you melted the sodium, you're done. I used very fast stirring for this (800+) and it also consumed about one hour's time. * Charge the reaction flask with the magnesium. * Charge the reaction flask with about half of your sodium menthol baby oil. * Hook the flask up to the bubbler and raise the internal temperature to between 190C and 200C. I cannot stress enough how important pre-treating the oil is. Making a large batch of pre-dried, pre-purified oil ahead of time so that you can use it without rationing improves absolutely everything. The reality is that if you do not pre-treat your oil you will be pouring wet, and likely contaminated, oil all over your sodium every step of the way.
has been an honor to follow your investigation until this point... thank you for so much btw, this: "As you can see, it's a very simple and straightforward process that anyone could have figured out" made me cry laughing, also the "explosive carrot"
This is a huge achievement! What inspired you to try an alcohol catalyst? I tried to come up with a method several years ago, but it was extremely messy, dangerous work. (As you well know.) And not only did you come up with an infinitely better method, but you're getting super yields! Nice work. Chemistry as a hobby will never be the same, and I hope you get the recognition you deserve.
Perhaps if I really understood catalysts I wouldn't be so surprised, but I've been following your work in this video thread, and what you posted today represents a quantum leap! What's next? Cold fusion? I suspect that it won't just be the amateur community that takes notice of your discovery.
Great project and video. I have performed this a number of times with varying success. One problem I've had is as follows: the reaction goes fine to begin with and I can see molten Sodium swirling in the reaction mix and gas is produced merrily. After a few hours, the reaction seems to halt - the bubbler starts sucking oil and the sodium seems to break up into small dirty spheres and is likely partially consumed. Any ideas for why this might happen?
"Simple and straightforward process that anyone could have figured out." Yeah... so was the lighbulb technically. This is waaaaay more complicated than figuring out what component to use, thickness, suspension method, perfecting the vacuum, and voltage.
You can then thermally regenerate magnesium with charcoal in a sealed high temperature pressure vessel by mixing them thoroughly as dry powders [a ball mill might help you there] and roasting them to the auto-ignition temperature, but keep in mind that ( CO2 + Mg ↔ C + MgO ) and one must begin with an inert gas other than CO or CO2 and gently purge the CO2 as it is generated, so as to keep it from reverting. Typically, N2 is the preferred gas for this reaction as it is relatively cheap, displaces oxygen, and will not react directly with the magnesium to any appreciable extent. It will, however, react with hot steel, nitriding its surface somewhat, making it harder and tougher. * *[not necessarily a bad thing, but something to be aware of if you have used threaded pipe, because in some cases, it can weld the parts together making it necessary to cut the pressure vessel apart.]
And here I was thinking of taking advantage of the low boiling point of Na and just melt it while filtering the Mg’s away... This is why I love this channel!
yea I'd like to see the rationalization for the reaction. Looking at menthol, my first guess it is related to the fact that it's covered with lone pairs. really cool work getting the process to this point!
Less than ten years ago there were people laughed off chemistry forums on a weekly basis for asking for an easy and safe way to make sodium metal. It was thought impossible outside of electrolysis. Sure showed em. Menthol brings this to a new level of accessibility.
Thanks, let's hope the next projects are as successful :)
Yes and because someone asked the question "What if..." now we have this.
Good god.. u know, this REALLY makes me wonder what catalytic process menthol plays in cigarette smoke. I mean i kniw that sounds like im making a joke, but seriously
@@alllove1754 9 out of 10 doctors prefer menthol cigarettes. That makes them as good as medicine, unless you go to the 1 out of 10 doctors that don't work for us. There are always some crackpot doctors that will say something different than what we've demonstrated as scientific fact. We paid for all this research, so we trust the shit out of it, and you should too.
@@buckstarchaser2376 my man, i dont NOT trust it! Thats the only cigs i ever smoke, when i do. I have a pack if kools menthol sitting in a drawer for the last two months, having one whenever theres the right beer combo. Im not a person of blind faith so much when it comes to science, so much as i am one that believes in the double blind studies. Having said that, i switched to the vape several years ago, occasionally desiring the maoi induced effects only a proper nh3 dipped freebased nicotine taylor made offers us. Do you smoke?
The sodium project won't stop, there is still a lot more to research. But i'll be doing some other projects too.
Nice
You sir are an inspiration, I never learned chemistry in school and I didn't realize what a fascinating subject it was untill I stumbled across your channel years ago. I am now doing research on modified high pH stöber reactions which do not use TEOS or TMOS or any other complex silane, I never would have made it this far without you. Thanks
🙏
That was a really fun journey. Id love to see how you remove ethonal from gas next.
New Projects! Would love to see someone tackle L-glucose, but that's probably a step too far for amateurs.
Years of work condensed into 12 minutes. Impressive.
When looking at this video and thinking how easy it is to make sodium, remember that a professional PhD chemist spent more than a year of his free time to perfect the process and especially to find a suitable and commonly available catalyst.
And how to get good yealds and not eat the glassware
Luckily we can follow his achievements and build up experience from them
Have fun chemistry extremely interesting I've been learning as much as I can over the last couple years I seem to be getting more and more into it because I love doing
Glad to see this project entering its final stages. A far cry from its somewhat pessimistic beginnings. It’s amazing to see scientific discovery documented AS it happens.
Why thank you!
"Some years ago"
I feel old now
Me too, man, been following this project since it started
Felt
This is exceptional, I've been following you for years, even long before Patreon existed and you were fully stuck because you couldn't keep on doing these experiments.
I knew that you always wanted to have some sort of breakthrough experiment, and, I think, this could be it. You've worked for years on this, and I've seen the failures, the successes, the trials and tribulations and the all-out "giving up" stage. I'm so happy that you managed to see this through to a reasonable conclusion.
Sodium metal access to the amateur opens up so many opportunities for new chemists to perfect the art, through having purer end results, to higher yields, to actually being able to do things without shedding hundreds on chemicals that they can't afford on a budget to fuel a hobby passion.
So well done to you sir, you've done the exceptional!
Congratulations!
Thanks!
I totally agree
As a chemist myself I take off my hat to you sir for your persistent and dedication .....
Hope you can publish this and get the recognition you deserve for an excellent application of science and chemistry ...
Hey! I need some help in the chemical field! Are you expert level?
A few tips discovered the hard way: Mg powder/dust requires exceptional magnetic stirring or an overhead stirrer because it tends to form a sludge. Mg shavings don't pack well which means they stir poorly and require a very large flask. Mg turnings or chopped up Mg ribbon is the best compromise, although good stirring is still required.
Use a large, strong stir bar that covers almost the entire diameter of your flask. If you use an undersized stir bar, poor stirring will cause undisturbed pockets of Mg that ultimately forms aggregates. This slows the reaction and, more seriously, traps the stir bar and forms localized hot spots which will overheat and crack the flask. I had this happen and the bottom of the flask cracked after about 24 hours at 200 C. I'm not sure if my stir bars are unusually shitty but despite being PTFE they were wrecked (dark black) at the end of this 24 hour reaction.
If the reaction fails be very careful during cleanup as you're faced with the task of digging chunks of unreacted Mg aggregates out of the flask which are also coated in small globules of sodium. This can easily burst into flame if any moisture hits it, which is a very bad thing if it happens inside the flask. Hydrogen + flame + glass vessel with a narrow neck = exploding glass.
It's not your stir bars being shitty necessarily, it's a problem that Nurdrage discovered in one of his research vids when he was running the reaction with different alcohol solvents - I believe the sodium itself is actually attacking the PTFE in some way, one of the only things that will do that. I would need to go back and find which vid he said that in though.
This could be my problem… I ground my magnesium up very fine and I can’t even get the experiment off the ground period… I guess I should start with a larger stirrer and not grind up my magnesium next time
I'm having this problem. I used a belt-sander to grind fire-starter magnesium blocks into a powder. What I have is more like magnesium wool. What a pain in the ass! This crap doesn't stir for anything. Stirring is absolutely necessary, or the reaction stops, and the vent tube starts sucking up the bubbler oil. I'm having to babysit this brew, tinkering with it every 5min to keep a small magnet bead synced with the motor. Even then, most of the magnesium is sitting on the bottom perimeter of the flask. Ugh! 😣
On the other hand, I am getting tiny beads of sodium forming at way less than 200°C. I think the increased surface area of my magnesium is allowing the reaction to happen at a lower temperature ≈ 130°C.
Wow that sounds even more ground up than mine… yea, I found the more fine it is, the harder it is to stir. I’m going to try using chips next time or else get a top stirrer with a strong motor. That seems the best approach but would take some ingenuity to get the tube and temp all in there as well
What I ended up with was an unknown quantity of very fine beads of sodium. I'm going to have to make some dioxane in order to try to separate the sodium. Meanwhile, I found a ¼" drill bit makes a nice sized chip, for a lot less work. So I'm going to try another run using these "turnings".
Pro tip: cheap magnesium can be found at scrap/junk yards in the form of wheel rims. Ask if you can buy broken mag rims, as these only have scrap value.
just realised i have 4 mags sitting in my shed, just waiting.
ooooh
"As you can see, it's a very simple and straightforward process that anyone could have figured out"
LMAO
Yeah, "anyone". Yet, well into the 21st century, NurdRage was the first to have it figured out. Pay some respect for the attempts and failures of our ancestors and never consider things that are emerging only just now, simple.
Yeah, I bet he googled it! /s
Anyone COULD have figured it out, just by going through the same scientific steps that he did to test his process. What was once complex is now simple. In this case it wasn't done because the amateur chemist community simply was, well, too amateur. They focused too much on the how of it (magnesium + sodium hydroxide + catalyst) without giving any attention to the why of it at any point, and that's how NurdRage was himself able to figure it out. @@bormisha
Best Valentine's day evar.
Just how many hundreds (thousands?) of dollars spent on exotic catalysts and solvents before settling on menthol and mineral oil? Wild ride!
It's unbelievable that the menthol can works the whole process like menthol without decompose. Best video on this theme on entire UA-cam. Hat down.
Agreed. Surprised it isn't reduced to menthane by the sodium and or lithium.
@@flaplaya
Alcohols are difficult to reduce to alkanes. You have to go around it.
S2N Reaction
Ok, I'm stumped. What exactly is the menthol doing in this process? Is it passing through some kind of alkoxide intermediate before the sodium is reduced?
@@scabbarae
Nurdrage explains it better than me
ua-cam.com/video/PxPjBz_8S3c/v-deo.html
I started watching these videos over 10 years ago and now Im getting my degree in Chemistry. Thank you for inspiring me.
NOOO!!! I HAVE RUINED YOUR LIFE!!! CHEMISTRY IS A SATURATED FIELD WITH NO JOBS! YOU ARE DOOOOOOOOOOMEEEEDDD1!11!!!!!11!
:)
Congrats on the degree, i wish you success in all you do!
@@NurdRage Dont have my degree just yet, but Im close, thank you so much, it means the world.
Congratulations on getting this process boiled down to a tutorial. It's been an amazing journey, and I'm grateful that you've taken us all along on the ride with you.
Keep being awesome :D
Very nice work! I would advise anyone trying this to always cut sodium UNDER mineral oil. This will reduce the amount of oxidation and also minimize the risk of ignition. Cheers!
That's not a worry with fresh made, that's very true for older samples though
You're thinking of potassium. I've never had sodium ignite while cutting. Even with old, dry or large samples. I have with potassium though. Nothing like cutting 100 grams of potassium and it instantly melts and catches fire. Out of the dozens of kilos of sodium that I've handled and cut, nothing even remotely similar has ever happened.
That looks so simple now. It is almost difficult to think of all the steps needed earlier to get to this simple and efficient method. Good job!
Fueling desires for chemistry. Perfect for Valentine's Day! Look foreward to seeing the new lab.
This is the end of one of the most exciting sagas of youtube videos I have ever watched. I am extremely impressed with what you achieved!
HOLY SHIT IT'S OUT
The moment has come. Thank you, NurdRage. Can't wait to see the additional developments in the project!
So cool to see the fruits of all your labor over these last months. Can't wait for the next video!
I have studied chemistry around 5 years ago and wanted to make sodium. Since the existed methods were hectic and I gave up. Here after 5 years I'm an electronic engineer, hardly do anything with chemistry. Seeing this made me give production of sodium another shot! Well done! You deserve a medal for this!
I LOVED the Lab Notes series of videos building up to this penultimate result.
This along with Nile Red's videos about sodium and potassium metal purification is an amateur chemist's dream come true. THANKS!
That is crazy! I can't believe it can be that easy, and well, actually at all without fire. Great work and thanks for the knowledge!
I've watched how hard and long you and others have worked on this. Congratulations on a job well done.
His magnum opus an easy, safer, practical, and available method of making sodium metal probably the first substantial scientific achievement done entirely through UA-cam
All the work and difficulties documented on UA-cam. And the UA-cam community along for the whole progression of the achievement.
I'm glad you're making an advanced video explaining the mechanisms behind why this reaction works. This project is so cool!
Yeah, a process anyone could have figured out ;-) You have the absolute right to be a bit smug. Knowing how to make sodium this way is neat. Had this been presented at the start as fait accompli, it would have been a good video. As a finale to a research project that you shared with all of us along the way it's brilliant. I don't know that there's another project that's been done like this. This was real science with a new discovery at the end that will very likely get some people interested in chemistry and other research science fields as a possible carreer. I know if I were teaching chemistry, this could easily be used as part of the curriculum. Bravo!
Explosive carrot
@@justajavajunky haha wonderful
Forbidden Carrot
You amaze me with the ingenuity in your videos, not only are you skilled but I had no idea you could make sodium without electrolysis. These aren't just replicating papers, you're truly making strides in the field which is hard enough in a professional lab let alone an amateur. As a professional in biology with a passion for amateur chemistry, I don't fully get everything you talk about but I get enough to see how cool your videos are!
Difficult to obtain Tetraflorboric dioxo .....and.... It Menthol. And it's hypoallergenic baby oil. I still can't believe it. I watched it 3 times. Bonus: You can mix the two leftovers two in a warm solution to soothe sore muscles. Thank you for all your hard work and just putting it out there.
I'm so happy for you and the community. I'm glad you have been able to develop a method to produce sodium metal for the amateur chemist.
A fantastic process. I have used this according to the protocol shown, for the production of both sodium and potassium. Both with good results. The only modifications I used was to cut the Mg ribbons with a pair of scissors, and to use twice the amount of oil. For potassium production I didn’t use any jump start material, and for the sodium production only 0,5 g sodium. Although I used the same flat bottom flask for both experiments, there was no visible glass deterioration. I used unopened, lab quality, NaOH and KOH, so the amount of adsorbed moisture was minimal.
Kudos man- it’s been great watching all the lab notes for this. So nice to see it all finally come together
@nurdrage Finally got a chance to make some sodium using this method! I found that you don't need consistent stirring! As long as you break everything up after the first 4 hours or so you're good! I also predried my NaOH somewhat which made it so the jumpstarter quantity wasn't needed or could be reduced significantly and it didnt etch my glassware! Thank you so much for your perseverance and knowledge!
I like the oddly satisfying way of cleaning up, purifying, and separating the sodium metal with the 1-4 dioxane!
I gave this a go, once hydrogen production had stopped I had a grey liquid which I expected would be a total failure but to my surprise I had several small lumps of sodium and one very large one that I had to chop to remove from the flask! I started with 5g sodium and ended up with 15g... great process!
Thank you nurdrage. Honestly I love science and math so much. These are my favourite videos to watch.
Watching this "miniature research project" has been some of the most refreshing practical science I've seen in a while.
Awesome summary of your research. I can't wait for the more detailed video explaining the knitty gritty details.
I really enjoyed this series, seeing how you overcame the obstacles and optimized to make it accessible to those with a small budget using readily available ingredients. It was a lot more useful and interesting to me than the standard chemistry cooking shows. Thanks also to those who helped fund the research.
I don't know if it possible, but I would like to see a series on making non-recreational drugs. I take a 50+ year old antidepressant, tranylcypromine, that has gone from about $40/mo to $300/mo in about a decade. Of course I'd never take something I cooked up myself, but it would still be interesting to see for educational purposes.
Congratulations, the amount of work and quality of results cannot be understated!
A great achievement! I’ve been watching the progress of this project since the beginning, it’s been a fascinating learning process!
How many of these videos can I watch before I’m put on a watch list??
If you need to ask you already are.
If you need to ask, then you're already on said list.
Its a legitimate question for the amateur chemist. Some people here on YT are referring to KNO3 as "potassium based oxygen" instead of "potassium nitrate" to avoid the great YT intellectual clean-sweep. A lot of chemistry channels have been shut down (RIP chemplayer) while others making actual literal bombs (King of Random) are chugging along just fine.
Dunno, but I've made a playlist containing all his sodoum synthesis and lab notes videos. Do you want the link?
7. Then expect a visit from authorities. At least that's how it was for me
Making it right now, up to 200 and bobble are pretty nice 1/ sec. Using powdered magnesium so hoping I am finishing in 15 hours! boy are those lithium batteries a pain to open up! Thanks a lot Nurd Rage, really enjoy your videos, you Nile Red, Cody etc all very inspiring.
I would think the foil would radiate heat, not insulate it.
Will never forget my High School chemistry teacher (a baseball coach doing it for the first time) taking a large cylinder of sodium out of the mineral oil, and slicing a loooong thin wafer out of it - I tried to say something before he dropped it into the 10 gallon aquarium full of distilled water in front of him and was shushed.
Grabbed a plastic binder and held it in front of my face in time to keep from getting splashed - the teacher, who had *leaned over the aquarium to watch the reaction* (fortunately wearing safety glasses) was drenched.
The foil is mostly there to prevent heat loss by convection.
@Prince Bumpkin I understand the rest (although I certainly couldn't have put it so well) but you say "the aluminum is thermally reflective" - my understanding is it's one of the most thermally conductive metals, thus I'd think that it would act to speed up the loss by radiation on the outer surface area.
I'm not understanding how it can be both conductive and reflective. Is it that the loss is more than offset by the gains from the other aspects?
Conductivity is about heat flow through the material.
Reflectivity is about whether or not it absorbs radiated heat (infrared).
@@TitanUranusOfficial It's thermally conductive in the sense that heat in the form of thermal vibration (random motion of the atoms) that's already in the aluminium can easily move about inside it. It's also shiny so heat in the form of radiation (infrared or visible light) can't easily get into it to become thermal vibration, and thermal vibration can't get out to become radiation.
This series has been truly amazing, seeing more of the behind the scenes work and thought processes provides quite a lot of valuable information that normally isn't readily available. I can't wait to see the advanced video.
Why thank you! the advanced video might take awhile though. :)
@@NurdRage I kept up with the series for months, I think I can handle a wait. Thank you so much for all of your work.
Edit: In hindsight I probably should have worded this a bit differently.
respect to this mans research, and to his dissemination of his results. Chemistry and astronomy are possibly the two areas where a talented person can add to the knowledge base meaningfully and even outperform groups with backup and research funding.so often the little players are scoffed at. give this man a team of undergrads and a few million (chickenfeed in relative terms) and im sure vhe could give many research groups a run for their money and possibly a few tearful thoughts about a change of career. well done
Well done! It’s been awesome watching the process! Most of all, thank you for making the extra effort to publish the full scientific process which is so important for aspiring STEM enthusiasts to see - especially the “failures” you had as this is where the gold truly lies.
wonderful summation video of all the little updates along the way!
Congrats on hitting this monumental milestone! Thanks for sharing all the process to get to this point!
Thanks for your hard work, inspiration, and sharing knowledge of chemistry!
I'm so glad made the final video... I know the process hard but this was worth it
Thank you nurdrage for another video... Love your videos.. thank you for my favorite chemistry teacher 😊
An absolute triumph! Thanks, NurdRage, and congratulations!
"And that is how you make sodium. As you can see, it's a very simple and straightforward process that anyone could have figured out."
You can be a real bastard sometimes, you know that? xD
I came here to say this.
His modesty is as astounding as his results
You know you have a really good solution when it seems obvious after you've figured it out
So cool to see a process be discovered before the paper is written
1:55 that’s what diddy needed the baby oil for
I'm wondering if it will work with Triphenylmethanol as catalyst. I have quite a lot of it, as it was the first Grignard reaction I did. Would also be quite easy to dry, as it is a solid. I will be testing it soon, but first the mineral oil has to arrive. What is also quite interesting is, that these procedure can also be used to make rubidium and cesium from the corresponding hydroxides. And for sure potassium, as this was the first use for the reaction before NurdRage used it for sodium.
It’s really been cool watching this process develop over the months.
You Sir are a Legend.....
I feel vicariously proud of NurdRage for this "final" process video after watching all the attempts and lab notes updates before this.
I really enjoyed the format this series took.
why thank you!
nice to see this all coming together! such a simple video for a process we know took much longer to establish!
You sir, are a saint.
Thank you for making sodium obtainable! I've enjoyed watching this series, and your other videos.
It's finally out!!! Wowww! Congrats man :D
Thank you so much for your work on this(and in general, your channel too)
After a lot of toying with the idea of getting into amateur chemistry, this video got me to go and buy some equipment and begin this project.
Boy the garage smells minty.
Your videos and research have inspired me more than you’ll ever know. Chemistry has always been a curiosity for me. I have no formal education in the subject, and I have been educating myself. I watch your videos, and have been working my way through several college chemistry textbooks for about 2 years now. I’ve built a somewhat impressive amateur laboratory complete with fume hood. I’ve managed to produce such things as HNO3, luminol, hydrazine sulfate, TATP, thermite, smoke bombs, glacial acetic acid, hot ice, and a whole lot more. Thank you for what you do. You are an inspiration to those of us trying to learn chemistry.
I've got some old books from the early 1900's and they had published instructions for parlour tricks using this commonly available metal. How times have changed. It must have been an interesting world to walk down to your local drug store or hardware store and buy materials for hobbyists.
Wow great job man highly impressed you are a great chemist an true pleasure to follow through the process with you great work 👍
Cool to see progression on the sodium project!
Great video! Wish I had such resources available when I was taking inorganic chem
It's been an adventure to get here. Many thanks !!
This was the first channel that intrigued me about chemistry some 6 years ago. So wonderful to see you fire up this channel once more. Thank you, and I look forward to more wonderful videos from you whenever you get the chance!
Great summary of the process. I suppose in a mass-production scale using the melt-float-cut separation process to extract the magnesium could be done by a machine under oil. Then again so could the dioxane method. So what are you going to revolutionize next? If you could extract Aluminium that could be incredible for reducing global CO2 emissions. Magnesium too.
Really appreciate your efforts that went into this sodium production method ! Keep it up !
This is so cool! I'm going to have to try this on my channel! Love it.
Random eBay store: you gonna order more than 5g of our expensive sodium?
Nurd Rage: nah... thanks for the jump start sodium!
Random eBay store: jump... start?
Lol, it's not that expensive anymore.
www.etsy.com/listing/759853845/sodium-metal-10-25-50-100-grams
@@chaoticchem I wonder why 🤣
OK, so I think that this prep needs one major change which is to perform the steps in a deconstructed fashion. The major reason for this is that "hypoallergenic" baby oil isn't necessarily free of unwanted compounds. In my case, I was able to get 'equate' brand hypoallergenic baby oil but it still had fragrance in it. Whatever the reason, I ended up with the same problem as last time which is that, after the initial formation of the alkoxide, the sodium production would go for a while and then stall. Adding in more menthol produces a lot of gas for a short time only. I assume that once the formation of the alkoxide dies down, the gas stops because the sodium producing reaction never re-starts.
The one-pot design is great but considering how finicky the reaction is, I don't think it's worth it especially considering that the starting materials aren't strictly defined (relative to an in-depth paper). This is what I recommend:
* First dry the oil with sodium metal. I just processed three bottles of the oil in a couple of batches with a 1L beaker. Leave the sodium in there a while and also bring the oil to the melting point of sodium for at least an hour. In my case, this produces the expected flakes of NaOH pretty quickly. However, after some more time, a significant amount of a yellowish-orange compound will precipitate out. If you do not pre-treat the oil, this reaction will happen during sodium production. In my case it appears that this yellow compound either suppresses the reaction, destroys the catalyst, or both. I strongly suspect catalyst destruction.
* Charge a small beaker with approx. 50ml of the dried oil, a gram of sodium metal, and a few grams of menthol. Stir fast enough to agitate the sodium for about an hour. The metal should get shiny and then dull and tan colored. The oil will become hazy.
* Charge your reaction flask with the NaOH and a few grams of sodium and dry with slowly increasing heat as per NR's videos. Once the lye starts to become translucent and wants to cling to the glass, slow down the heat increase. Watch the glass and if lye is sticking around on one spot too long, just pick up the flask and manually agitate it until it's free of any clinging NaOH and resume. Once you melted the sodium, you're done. I used very fast stirring for this (800+) and it also consumed about one hour's time.
* Charge the reaction flask with the magnesium.
* Charge the reaction flask with about half of your sodium menthol baby oil.
* Hook the flask up to the bubbler and raise the internal temperature to between 190C and 200C.
I cannot stress enough how important pre-treating the oil is. Making a large batch of pre-dried, pre-purified oil ahead of time so that you can use it without rationing improves absolutely everything. The reality is that if you do not pre-treat your oil you will be pouring wet, and likely contaminated, oil all over your sodium every step of the way.
Congrats! It’s been great watching your process and lab notes.
Very nice! Congrats on the completion of your research project!
has been an honor to follow your investigation until this point... thank you for so much
btw, this: "As you can see, it's a very simple and straightforward process that anyone could have figured out" made me cry laughing, also the "explosive carrot"
This is a huge achievement! What inspired you to try an alcohol catalyst? I tried to come up with a method several years ago, but it was extremely messy, dangerous work. (As you well know.) And not only did you come up with an infinitely better method, but you're getting super yields! Nice work. Chemistry as a hobby will never be the same, and I hope you get the recognition you deserve.
It all started with t-butanol many years ago. I just decided to research alternative catalysts and improved methods.
Perhaps if I really understood catalysts I wouldn't be so surprised, but I've been following your work in this video thread, and what you posted today represents a quantum leap! What's next? Cold fusion? I suspect that it won't just be the amateur community that takes notice of your discovery.
This is incredible. I think i have watched this video ten times
I just did the 1,4 dioxane with good success. sodium is the way to dry that. And, this is so simple, I can do it tonight. sweet!
Very intriguing. An almost unbelievable accomplishment.
Great project and video. I have performed this a number of times with varying success. One problem I've had is as follows: the reaction goes fine to begin with and I can see molten Sodium swirling in the reaction mix and gas is produced merrily. After a few hours, the reaction seems to halt - the bubbler starts sucking oil and the sodium seems to break up into small dirty spheres and is likely partially consumed. Any ideas for why this might happen?
I love how the sodium floats then sinks then floats back up again as the dioxane cools.
changes in density since both substances have different density profiles versus temperature. Definitely an interesting thing to watch :)
hats off, very cool, I always wanted to construct a Castner cell but this is very nice for personal use amounts of sodium.
Very nice method. Great job and thank you for sharing your knowledge
This is the result of an incredible body of work.
It's nice to see it come to fruition.
I can't wait for the video explaining the mechanism. It might as well be alchemy... MENTHOL? Good work, sir. Anyone could have figured it out 😆
Oh yeah: instant subscribe.
Oh cool, this video is five years old. I don't have to wait for the mechanism video.
"Simple and straightforward process that anyone could have figured out." Yeah... so was the lighbulb technically. This is waaaaay more complicated than figuring out what component to use, thickness, suspension method, perfecting the vacuum, and voltage.
This is a pretty important discovery I thibk
This is just genius! Congrats!
You can then thermally regenerate magnesium with charcoal in a sealed high temperature pressure vessel by mixing them thoroughly as dry powders [a ball mill might help you there] and roasting them to the auto-ignition temperature, but keep in mind that ( CO2 + Mg ↔ C + MgO ) and one must begin with an inert gas other than CO or CO2 and gently purge the CO2 as it is generated, so as to keep it from reverting.
Typically, N2 is the preferred gas for this reaction as it is relatively cheap, displaces oxygen, and will not react directly with the magnesium to any appreciable extent. It will, however, react with hot steel, nitriding its surface somewhat, making it harder and tougher. *
*[not necessarily a bad thing, but something to be aware of if you have used threaded pipe, because in some cases, it can weld the parts together making it necessary to cut the pressure vessel apart.]
And here I was thinking of taking advantage of the low boiling point of Na and just melt it while filtering the Mg’s away... This is why I love this channel!
~900C not so low. I guess if messing with high temperatures then just electrolize molten nacl.
Отличное, очень понятное видео! Спасибо автору!
yea I'd like to see the rationalization for the reaction. Looking at menthol, my first guess it is related to the fact that it's covered with lone pairs. really cool work getting the process to this point!