Just got my RT4K this morning and have a whole pile of tapes to digitize, so this upload’s timing is pretty ideal. This is extremely useful so thanks for another great explainer vid, Bob!
Hi, Was gifted a bunch of VHS tapes containing recordings of Red Wings Playoff games from '97. I wanna digitize them with my new Retrotink 4k but don't have a capture card. What do you recommend?
The Retrotink 4K is the best analog-to-digital solution there is, especially for the cost. However I wish the time base correction did more correction. At places where I paused the original camcorder tape in camera, it will often jump and sometimes even show a quick frame from several minutes ago that for some reason is still in the RT4K's buffer. The RT5X also does this. It doesn't seem to have issues where I paused the recordings on a VHS tape, just old 8mm and Hi8 tapes that were then transferred to VHS. EDIT: I'm gonna try to get a JVC Super VHS as that's how the recordings were made. I currently only have a Mitsubishi S-VHS so maybe it doesn't like JVC recordings I dunno. Wouldn't hurt to have a spare VCR anyway.
@@GameSack lordsmurf once said that Retrotink 5x or 4K are inaccurate since it's a retro gaming scaler, not a Time Base Corrector. I have a decent Panasonic Diga DMR ES-15 as a TBC.
@@JnL_SSBM I'm not sure LordSmurf is entirely wrong about the TINKs, but until Mike implements proper 576i passthrough it's hard for me to test/compare and get accurate results as I only have PAL tapes. I have an actual standalone TBC, and playback wise through when compared to the TINK-5X, it seemed to perform comparably. I'd still love to perform some more robust testing though if a 576i mode comes.
Bob! This is a great video! I’m a sysadmin at a library and help with a variety of patron needs, especially VHS to digital conversations, up until this video, there just wasn’t a solution that could be implemented without a substantial amount of staff time, until now! We’ll be able to offer this service again! Genuinely grateful for this!
Even though I can't afford to get into Retro Gaming or Pro-Level Tape Transfer yet, this is still really informative and entertaining to watch. UA-cam channels such as yourself, MLiG, and MVG really make my mind run wild with different scaler and hardware possibilities!
Considering we both own old VHS Players and Consoles using analog connections, including the Xbox 360, PS3, and Nintendo Wii, it's awesome to capture stuff with a Retrotink 5x device, as it's my go to device for 1080p stuff, including recording stuff on my PS2, PS1, Nintendo Gamecube, Nintendo 64, Nintendo Wii, and Xbox 360 to be exact.
I remember speaking with Mike years ago about the abundant pros of developing a TBC for the Tink 5x-Pro (both for him and for the community). People were already playing with using the 2x-Pro for VHS capture (I was one of them) - and it was good! I already owned TBC hardware but it seemed obvious that with the 5x's increased capabilities, it would be the perfect modern device for added TBC functionality if he was able to swing the focus and time for development because as anyone doing VHS capture or archiving knows, TBCs were (and still) are insanely priced! He was pretty resistant to the idea for quite a while (who else remembers?). But I think enough of us ended up hounding him about it (I definitely kept bringing it up to him haha), he came around and we ended up getting it for our 5x-Pros! Amazing work! Now here we all are a few more years later, the 4K is out and enthusiasts are sitting pretty! My RetroTINK 4K is excellent and it couples well with my other TBC hardware just like my 5x-Pro did (Thanks, Mike!). Also, thank you for the video, Bob! I love deep dives like this - keep up the great work!
Can't wait to see your Domesday Duplicator video...btw, the team over at VHS-Decode are in the process of finalizing the MISRC hardware, a successor to the DdD, which will be able to capture multiple streams simultaneously(so manually syncing multiple audio/video captures will finally become a thing of the past).
Besides having to jack into the the VTR/VCR hardware, the separate audio recording and manual syncing process is the main reason I never went with that process. Besides the huge processing times.
What timing! I literally used my retrotink 5x to digitize over 100 hours of family videos that were stored on mini vhs. The tink made it so easy that the hardest part was swapping the mini vhs’s out every hour. Glad to see this practical use of the product being covered, especially since I didn’t realize how expensive/ low quality the “home videos digitize” market was.
I heard some recorder's which have TBC will produce image with altered colour, so it looks kind of washed out and not like how it looks on the original tape, how closely do your digitised files resemble the original mini VHS footage?
Thank you for this guide. I am recording my mom and dad's old home VHS tapes, and I will give them to my dad on a flash drive for Father's Day. Thank you!!!
Great video! I'm glad we're seeing modern capture techniques like this and domesday. I'll be happy to see us move on from the current "recommended" techniques involving WinXP, huffyuv and insanely priced TBCs.
@jonrobinson6851 I'm just running composite and stereo into the RetroTink and then HDMI out of that into my capture card, so it's just a basic stereo capture. Not sure if any capture cards are capable of doing surround sound. I know mine can't.
@@jonrobinson6851 I'm using the AVerMedia Live Gamer Portable 2 PLUS. Specifically in the "PC-Free" mode where it just captures direct to an SD card. It isn't the fanciest capture card available, but it works well enough for some basic captures.
Had my 5x-pro laying around because of how much retro gaming I do. This video informed me a ton and I'm glad it can "replace" an expensive vintage TBC for something more cost effective for general home use.
I digitized all of my family’s home videos with my TINK 2X mini and HD60 Pro in late 2020. There were lots of signal drops and other issues. Going to redo this project with my TINK 5X and your tips! Thank you!!
Wow what a dope video. We make documentaries on VHS here in Prague and have been looking for a better method to transfer. Thanks for the in-depth video!
just commenting to express my appreciation for your content and ability to cover complicated topics in digestible ways. been interested in VHS digitizing for a while now and i learned more in this video than in countless hours of googling.
I have used so many devices to capture vhs and so many suck. My favorites have been a standalone Sony DVD recorder with internal time base correction, a combination of a cheap AV2HDMI dongle with an $11 hdmi capture dongle using QuickTime to record, and a very old windows XP PC using Dazzle usb 1.1 capture have been my go to vhs capture methods among the dozens I’ve tried. This looks very cool but I don’t see myself spending $500+ on a retrotink to digitize vhs tapes. I’m happy to see the analog to digital conversion community still striving for perfection though. Preservation is so important.
I took a totally different approach to digitalizing my old VHS. I used a Panasonic DVD Recorder as a passthrough device to take advantage of its TBC elements and capture in my PC with an analog capture device (Diamond VC500). I kept everything in 480i to let the upscaling and deinterlacing to the reproducing device. This way I can always take advantage of better upscaling and deinterlacing algorithms that will come in the future, like AI-based upscaling, for example.
This is extremely timely and helpful! My family was just talking yesterday about how we need to digitize our tapes before they go bad, I realized I could probably do it with the RT4K, and low and behold you posted this only 10 days ago! Thank you!!
I just ordered a Retrotink5x for VHS ripping after getting an HDMI capture card! I'm very excited to try out the TBC in it, especially for tapes you can't buy on DVD!
Great timing on this video Bob as I’m hoping to backup some old 8mm and vhs tapes. This was super informative. Looking forward to that upcoming archival vid too!
Congratulations on your tips and solutions for RetroTINK. An experience I had with a promotional video that came as bonus media on a CD. The video came in a MOV file that was certainly compressed to fit on the 700mb CD (this CD is from 2001). This video was recorded at 15fps and the promotional video was probably recorded on a digital camera from the 90s, as the song is from 1995. Due to the blurred colors it could be that it was recorded on an analogue camera. very likely. The most interesting thing is that I tried to scale it to HD at 60fps using PC programs and the 15fps effect simply doesn't change. The only software I didn't use was TopazVideo due to my PC being limited and I don't have a dedicated video card. But it's incredible I used 4 video conversion and scaling software and the fps rate doesn't change. I managed to trick this by increasing the speed time which apparently disappeared the feeling of video recorded at 15fps. I even uploaded the video on my channel of this version that I supposedly cheated on. ajajaja.
Truly appreciate the amount of effort you put into these videos, this is outstanding information and will be a reference for people for years. I have some old tapes I would like to convert and this is probably overkill, but I still enjoyed all the detail.
Also it should be noted that if you use S-video, be sure to disable 3D Comb Filtering completely in the ADC menu. If left enabled, you'll get a trailing afterimage that can be noticed mostly on fast-moving objects. You don't need 3D Comb Filtering with S-video anyway, so just turn it off.
My family has a whole stack of Hi-8 tapes that i promised id digitize years ago, but after a few days playing with a Dazzle, j wasnt satisfied enough to wanna continue, as I'd likely wanna re evaluate my process. Very excited to learn from this video - perhaps I'll finally finish the project!
Thanks Bob! Being a fan of your concise summaries and reasonable methodology, I've been looking forward to this video since that first VHS live stream!
You mentioned the QTGMC process in one of your titles-that’s generally the best way to handle mixed framerate content like 24p animation with 60i overlays. I’ve used it extensively in my AI upscale of the Super Mario Bros. Super Show.
Seeing this makes me realize I'd love to have a physical media player for my VHS and DVD rips that that emulates scanlines and VHS-style fast-forward and rewind, maybe in a VCR shell/case. It would be great for VHS anime rips in particular.
Emulating VHS fast-forward and rewind would be hard. Well, more that it'd be really CPU-intensive, as doing so would require decoding the video much faster than real-time. The stuttering of digital FF/RW is down to just decoding the rare frames that are compressed using only information within the frame (i-frames). The rest store differences between frames, either between itself and the last i-frame (p-frames), or between itself and the neighbouring i-frames or -p-frames (b-frames).
Thank you so much Bob for this amazing deep dive. I don't have a capture card and although that's a basic first step, I didn't really know what I would need to attempt this. I have a 5X and have been considering upgrading to the 4K, especially since I've been having trouble getting the firmware updater to recognize the 5X. Your video made me realize with my current setup I'm not quite ready to get the 4K for video capture and I really need to upgrade my computer setup first. After doing that, I do feel I'll have the confidence to digitize some of those old home movies, with this reference in tow.
Bought a retrotink5x last year to transfer my parents wedding, my grandparents wedding anniversary and videos of my brother after we found them when cleaning my abuela's house. Bought a s-VHS player with a built in TBC since their was warping on the top of the picture but now the retrotink5x fixes the warping by its self now. My parents where happy that the tapes are now on the computer since one my mom overwrote the her original wedding tape by mistake so she though it was lost and we don't have anything of my brother digital since he wasn't around in the digital world.
What an excellent video! I really liked how you highlighted the aspect of time & effort per transferred tape. Personally, I’ve used an old SVHS deck by JVC that has a DV out and then done deinterlacing and upscaling in ffmpeg, and this has definitely meant that I’ve skipped capturing certain tapes completely because the amount of effort required (tranferring files from my MacBook to NAS and then running ffmpeg for half an hour to produce the two H264 files I want).
Yeah, you really experienced the "time" aspect of it all. I can spend a day getting an amazing transfer of a tape...or spend an hour getting an almost-as-amazing version using a TINK. Sometimes it's absolutely worth the effort though! But definitely not always :)
BTW, why don't you use FCPX for importing the DV stream (via Firewire) and use the hardware encoders? They're (both H.264 and H.265) are superfast (a lot faster than realtime on anything Apple Silicon) and are now pretty good.
Great Video Bob. I live in Brazil and an important thing to have in mind if you pretend to digitize VHS with brazilian VCR's, you have to use a VCR that has the option to chage from Pal M to NTSC because as far as i tested scalers wont work correctly with PAL-M signals, it will be in black or whit or all wobbly and no good to watch, so for you to properly capture you will need to set your VCR to NTSC, not all VCR's released in brazil have that option, but lots of them will, in same cases you will need the VCR cotroller to change the video region.
@@sos.gamers Pal N was created in Argentina in 1976-77, Pal M is from 1972, the question would be why not NTSC since Brazil had the monochrome system M, 525 lines 30 FPS, (Brazil's AC is 60 Hz) and changing to a 625 line system would have been very expensive, well, that was due to the intensive advertising campaign Telefunken and Philips carried out in Brazil in 1972, which included colour test broadcasts of popular shows (done with TV Globo) and technical demonstrations with executives of television stations. Another advantage of Pal M is the simplicity of converting to and from NTSC, since only the colour carrier is changed.
Bookmarking this for later/ adding to UA-cam engagement with a comment. This is going to be so helpful. God bless you, Bob. Or Beer bless you, if you prefer.
another minus for the SoundBeast device (and most other devices I've tried in this class) is that is "de-interlaces" by discarding half the frames. You can see this by stepping frame by frame in the comparison section at around 23:37 (press , or . on the keyboard) and the retrotink maintains 60fps while the Soundbeast only steps every other frame. Thank you for uploading the video in 60fps by the way!
I came here to comment on this as well. I can tell just by looking at the side-by-side footage that the motion in the Soundbeast isn’t as smooth as the RetroTink, indicating that it’s deinterlacing to 30p instead of 60p. Definitely not something I want to use for anything that was shot on camcorders or any other 60i source.
This came at the perfect ish time. I just used my tink5x yesterday to transfer a recent tape I recorded over the last year. Gonna now watch this and see if there’s any tips I can use for my next tape
Correcting IVTC issues especially on Anime is especially difficult and often comes down to throwing out individual fields and then scaling the one you keep, or (hopefully) manually matching them with specialized tools, so I wouldn't expect the Retrotink to be able to handle every case. But running it through the Retrotink with no filter and then working on the upscaled output later would still prove very useful for Anime with no HD re-release
I am extremely satisfied with the Retrotink 5X Pro I bought some years ago, it's been delivering on it's promises and I couldn't be happier. The 4K version is bound to be even better and I'm looking forward to see it's capabilities in the future. Perhaps some UA-cam videos got some info on it in great detail, I'll definitely go look for them. Digitalizing analog video seems like a conversion process of VHS tapes to digital media, it would be cooler if it was the other way around to digitalize into analog video. But that's just my take on it. Even better would be if it was possible to simulate a CRT screen using modern hardware and monitors.
The easiest way to record digital video to tape would probably be using an older game console that has analog outputs and can play video files, like a PS3, and recording that through your VCR. You can do the same thing with a Raspberry Pi as well, since they all have composite video outputs, but if your VCR has an S-Video input, the better option would be to use that with a game console
I've digitized a ton of my VHS tapes, old home videos etc, using Retrotink 5X Pro. Now that I have the Retrotink 4K, I'm almost tempted to go back and try it again. The results were good already.
I'd re-capture just one of your favorite old video tapes and see what you think. You will see a difference...but is it worth re-capturing everything? Probably not, as the RT5x is already great. But who knows, maybe the RT4K will be a great match for your tapes?
Great work Bob, looking forward to the upcoming video. We all know modern screens are pretty bad at upscaling for games, but they are kind of built for handling video content. De-interlacing on the fly can be a bit of a mixed bag so I will de-interlace when digitizing but I personally don't see much reason for storing captures in 1080p or 4K when pretty much everything that plays video can upscale SD on the fly just fine and takes up less storage space. Just my opinion, would love to get more info about capturing in 480i or 480p from either the Tink 5X or 4K, or other methods. VHS decode looks very impressive but also a lot more work to set up and much more time to process.
I agree: If you have the ability to play back lossless 480i, your TV should do it just fine. That said, if you're uploading to UA-cam, Facebook, etc, you should really scale to 1080p or 4K, otherwise they'll apply their terrible deinterlacing and compression.
Nice video, with one caveat: Even if you're in North America, home camcorders often used 0 IRE rather than 7.5 IRE, so if you're using 7.5 and the shadows are all black, you probably need to use zero.
Oh, really? I had a few VHS and Video8 camcorder tapes to choose from and both seemed more accurate to a CRT when in 7.5IRE. I should look into this more.
Japanese auction sits are a gold mine of cheap high end VCR, I bought a Victor HR-VFG1 which is the japanese equivalent of a JVC hr-9911U in box with boat shipping for $250 CAN.
Absolutely fantastic! Thank you so much for this. Currently using the 5x pro, but just ordered the 4k tink today and this is going to be perfect for setting up my tape transfers. Do you have profile setup for Japanese tapes? I have them as well, in addition to my NA tapes. Thanks again!
Thanks! For Japanese tapes, I'd just try that same color profile I showed, that should already be loaded on the RT4K's SD card. If that doesn't look right, you'll have to do some more digging. Sorry, I just don't know enough about Japanese tapes to offer more info that that.
Every video I see on the RT4K makes me want one more. Looking forward to the OLED CRT video you mention. Curious on what you think of filters like that potentially causing burn in.
I have one ordered currently. I’m really excited to see how my vhs tapes look… I paid a little for my vhs player it has both component and hdmi first VHS player I’ve ever owned with hdmi out
I've been using a VCR with component output, run through a fancy expanded GBS-C from aliexpress ($70), and it's fantastic! the config is a little strange compared to a retrotink but the quality is superb for the price! just need to find a way to get composite into it so i'm not relying on the VCR for that.
Thank you! And both TINK's have a TBC, however the 4K's TBC can run at both 59.94 and 60. So if you're a video purist, it's a better choice. But both are excellent!
Man this was an excellent video. It just kills me the 4K can't do 576i output yet. :C I had to buy an Intensity Pro 4K to use temporarily to get around that and capture raw interlaced. If that day ever comes, I will immediately slap down all $750.00 for one.
Great video, thanks. In the clips of the 4K & 5x after 26:30 the 4K clips looked a lot better than the 5x ones to me. Would you say this this typical for these devices, or was there some other reason for the difference in quality in this case?
If you’re specifically talking about the TBC test clips of Eurotrip, they’re actually not a good representation of either - I didn’t bother tweaking any settings, as I was ONLY running a TBC test. I probably should have gone back and recorded the full movie again with the pre-configured profiles, but I just used what I already had. The main difference between the two is the RT4K’s more advanced scaling and deinterlacing. It IS better, but the RT5x is still very good.
Depending on the brand and model, those can actually be great, with their own TBC built in. You're still ended up with MPEG compression on the transfer, which is noticeable in 4K...bu tby no means is that a "bad" solution. I'll demo it in the upcoming video...
Thanks for a totally absorbing video. I already have a Panasonic VCR with built-in TBC. Would there be any advantage to turning the TBC off and using the RetroTINK instead? Many thanks and keep up the excellent work 😎
Does the time base correction fix field alignment? Like would it straighten out the vertical border in the top right corner of the samples at 26:07? Seems like it does based on how the Tink output looks later on but a side by side would have been nice - geometric distortion is in my experience a more commonly encountered flaw than time desync when transferring VHS.
Thank you Bob! I always thought that we can use some of these scalers to digitize vhs tapes & DVDs Also thanks for heads up on your Wednesday Update! I finally was able to order a Retrotink 4K
Nice! I use a Blackmagic Intensity Shuttle & a separate AVT-8710 time-base corrector. I then upscale in DaVinci. Would be nice to have a single device for all 3 steps.
That's a great setup. If you do this often though, I agree: Use your current setup for direct capture and use the TINK's whenever you just want an HD version.
Bob, another great video. I’m thinking an optimal viewing/settings video for using the Tink 5X and 4K on modern displays is coming? Optimal viewing settings with LD and VHS opposed to archiving I mean.
Thank you! I'd suggest using this exact profile for viewing...but then try adding the CRT Emulation filters. Also, if you have a RT4K and a 120Hz TV, absolutely try the BFI settings too! Each TV will look different, but I think you'll find small effects work really well.
Oh, I forgot: "CRT Simulate" deinterlacing alternates the lines just like a CRT. It's such a cool effect! LOL, TERRIBLE for archiving, but really great for watching.
4:53 I've been using the enhanced s-video mode for VHS and laserdisc playback and the increase in quality is staggering. Why wouldn't you use it when it works so well?
It's designed for the sharpness of video games, not TV content. While it might work well with some sources, it's something you should test on a case-by-case basis and not just leave it on.
@@RetroRGB Thanks. Side-by side comparisons have been really sparse on that. Looks like it makes the luma transitions "tighter" for lack of a better term.
It looks amazing in person. Very sharp, but it also got rid of issues I had with colour bleed on laserdisc. It doesn't work 100% of the time with PAL VHS, but I haven't had any issues with NTSC. This comment thread is the first I've seen about it only really being meant for video games - nothing on the firmware release or the videos going in to it when the firmware was released.
I have the JVC HR-S7800U with the built-in TBC, but I have a single tape that slants to the left with it off, and has tearing at the top with it on, where one field is good, but the other is wavy. I had to use the Panasonic unit you have there in passthrough to fix it. It's known as a poor man's TBC. It drops some frames here and there though, but at least it doesn't tear anymore. I use a Hauppauge 1800 with AmaRecTV. Virtualdub keeps losing audio sync after 55 minutes or so, but AmaRecTV has been rock solid. I tried using a scaler before, and it did look impressive, but I want it output as 30fps, interlaced, so I can deinterlace and interpolate to 60 in post. All the upscalers are only outputting at 60, not 30. 😥
I would suggest turning the RT4K off completely and back on after upgrading firmware. I've had issues with mine losing one audio channel after upgrading until properly restarted
@@RetroRGB I blame your grandparents. Look what they've done: you can only think about analog stuff since then. 😁 That "rubberman" or whatever episode was hella creppy. btw I would love to see what the 2X scaler + Atomos Ninja V or some other HDMI capture card could do in a tapeless/portable situation. I think I'm gonna discover it on my own, but I did not see anyone else try it before.
Awesome this helped out a ton! I'm getting tired of taking chances with those cheap converters on Amazon. I will look into getting one of the RetroTINKs soon, but are there any specifics that would lead you to recommend one more than the other, like would you recommend the 4K or 5x more? Or is either one just fine? P.S. I'm glad you mentioned Reasonable British, I loved his capture card comparisons too, but I had no idea there were other RetroTINK devices outside of the one he reviewed until I found this video.
Thank you! Both are great, but I'd let your total use case make the decision: Is the 3D comb filter a priority for you? Will you also use it for gaming and watching older video content? Are you a tape transfer shop that wants to give your customers a 4K file? Then the extra money of the RT4K is absolutely worth it. ...but if you're just a casual gamer, or only need 1080p files, the RT5x is more than enough.
I once came across combing artifacts in a PAL movie I recorded from TV (PAL, obviously) in 25p. It was the only time I saw them in a PAL movie. I can't remember now if I got rid of them in full, but I know I used a very CPU-intensive deinterlacer plugin in Virtual Dub in 2003...
@@gamecubeplayer you're right, one has to be precise. A PAL movie recorded from TV, that is, 50i - but should have deinterlaced easily into 25p with 2:2 pulldown, right? That's what I thought, but the combing artifacts were all over the place, so I don't know what the problem was. It was the only instance of a 50i PAL movie I recorded from TV which produced combing artifacts. Have you had any experience with 50i PAL movies?
@@gamecubeplayer could be. What is even weirder then that it was a European movie, so they should have been aware of the problems of 24->50 conversion and opted for the speed-up instead...
Thank you so much for this video Bob! My conundrum is I have a ton of Sony Video8 analog video camera tapes from the 80s-90s that I recorded and my Camera died and finding a working Video8 camera or VTP is pretty impossible. So many of my teenage videos are locked away for me and it's sad.
Where do you live? Usually getting a working camcorder is not that hard, getting a good one with line TBC will be a little bit more expensive, Camcorders did not get abused like VCRs, most of their defects are due to aging, dried up grease, perished rubber or failed capacitors.
Funny you mention Video 8 - That's the exact format of my home movies that I'm starting to re-digitize! I just bought a Sony Hi8 player that's backwards-compatible. Not cheap, but you can always re-sell it when you're done transferring. It's been working great for me so far. Here's an affiliate link to the exact model: ebay.us/TcKc46
@@RetroRGB I'm a novice just now setting up to digitize about 30 Hi-8 tapes filmed between 1995-2003. I have the same Sony Hi8 recorder that you just purchased! I've tried an old VidBox capture device that I had laying around and used OBS Studio on a Windows 11 computer. The quality I'm getting isn't great. I'm pretty sure that the VidBox is only capturing at half resolution (720x240), which is part of the problem. What capture device do you plan to use? I think the Hi8 tapes are 480 30p. Is that an issue for the RetroTink setup?
Excellent. Another reason to buy this. If you are doing a CRT emulation on the RetroTINK in future it would be interesting to see if it can be used to "enhance" video quality of DVDs in any way. A lot of cartoons, TV-shows and concert videos are released on DVD only. Maybe this can bump the quality a bit?
Oh, absolutely! Both the TINK's CRT Emulation is amazing, as well as the "CRT Simulate" deinterlacing. You can make a DVD "feel" like it's running on a really nice CRT. The IVTC stuff is great for true 24p stuff. And if you have a 120Hz TV and the RT4K, the BFI options (especially with IVTC) are pretty impressive!
@RetroRGB - Hey man, awesome video! Just to clarify, are there any advantages to the RetroTINK 5X-Pro versus the 4K in terms of capturing S-VHS specifically via S-video? As in things like time base correction, frame sync, filtering, or anything else? I'm looking at these two devices to try out another workflow for VHS digitizing, and I want to understand if there are any advantages / disadvantages of going with 5X-pro or 4K for VHS home video capture (assuming latest firmware for both devices). Also any advantages or disadvantages between these devices for NTSC 525i (480i or 486i visible lines) passthrough?
Thank you! If you’re doing 480i capture (the other TINK VHS video), they’re both the same. If you’re capturing in HD, the RT4K is better…but I wouldn’t recommend spending that much more money just for VHS capture. That said, if you’re using the RT4K for video games or watching TV/Movies, they’re go for it :)
Fantastic video. I feel like there's a niche crowd (based on my random assumption) looking to preserve analog video using a video upscaler/line doubler, and it's great you made such a detailed and informative video for us. I had a general idea of what a TBC does, but this video really helped explained what they do and the results one can expect. I think you've practically convinced me to pick up a Retrotink 5x for my tape conversion. Fortunately my tapes aren't near the level of damage as the one you tested with during the video, so I think other than a small amount of distortion which shouldn't take much away from the conversion, my tapes should be looking great in digital formats. I do have a question. During the 6 way comparison around 7:24, I noticed the RT5x is a bit more washed out than the other captures. Is this due to whatever settings you had the RT5x set to?
Thanks! So, that TBC comparison was ONLY testing the TBC. Setting were all over the place and not a good representation of ANYTHING other than TBC. Sorry about that, I should have specified.
They’re both excellent and 480i passthrough would be the same if you’re using S-Video. If you’re going to HD resolutions, pick whichever your target is: 1080p or 4K :)
I’m new to RetroTINK stuff but I must admit it sounds impressive. I am thinking to get the old school NES console and get Super Mario Bros 1, 2, 3 games. I notice that on older CRT TVs the Super Mario Bros 1 for instance had a robust sky blue color for the sky backon world 1-1 whereas on modern tv the game screen is stretched and darker blue to purplish color. I am looking for the best possible upscaler for the NES console to my Samsung OLED TVS95 so the colors match up perfectly from older CRT TVs. What do you recommend regardless of the price? Thanks!
As a wild idea, if you copy the video at least 3 times, with different levels of brightness, and use some HDR software on the individual images, I wonder if there is enough info to get an HDR effect? Would be interesting to find out.
I love all your videos! Thank you for the time you spend to create them. Influenced by this video, I got me a Tink4k and have started tinkering with it. I saw the model calculator link, used it to output a 29.97 frame rate, and loaded it on the SD. The Tink sees it in the list but fails to load it when chosen. I'm using a BMD Video Assist for my capture device. It does support a 1080/29.97p input. But something it isn't liking coming from the Tink. It just keeps reverting back to 4K/60p in the menu. Any ideas on what's up? Thank you!
@@RetroRGB Of course...but those aren't the res and framerates I'm needing. Like I said above, I made a HD model with a 29.97 framerate. It loades but does not work. Just wondering what I'm missing?
@@RetroRGB That did the trick. I just kept tinkering with it. Thank you for the suggestion. One thing. Switching IRE to 7.5 made the picture way too dark for my taste. In fact, the entire unit on the footage I had outputted a darker image than the actual tape. I'm never had to tweak any controls in the past with any interface I've used.
Have you tried capturing VHS through YPbPr? For some reason this looked so much better to me. My VCR is a DVD combo unit and has component out which also works for VHS and while it looks the same as composite connected to a TV it really makes a difference with the Tink5x. YPbPr is handled by a different part of the system (for lack of a better term) and not by the SDP. It's really strange and I like the look.
This is a great video! I wonder how the Tink4K handles color space since SD used the 601 standard and HD/UHD use the 709 color standard. Does the Tink4K correctly convert 601 to 709? Also I noticed Bob using a RGB capture setting rather than YUV? I was curious why since video uses the YUV standard. Lastly, since this is HDMI, how does setting full or partial impact the video levels?
All excellent questions. The TINK should auto-detect and convert 601 to 709 with no issue. And my recording settings were RGB when capturing the TINK's output, as it's outputting 4K in the RGB colorspace. But I'll dig MUCH deeper into capture settings in the upcoming video!
That makes a lot of sense. Thanks! I work in TV and film making docs that use archival material. So I have tons of experience digitizing tapes, along with a full TBC analog capture system running on WinXP haha. I dabbled with the 5x on my last feature film as test. Have the 4K and been following the progression of tape capture. Thanks a ton for documenting all this work.
My use case is exclusively to compensate for the new TVs not having composite in. So I need a box to zip tie behind the flatscreen that will take in the composite video from the AVR and convert it to HDMI for its 2 ft run to one of the HDMI inputs on the back of the flat panel tv. Key is , not having to use a remote to turn it on or configure it after I’ve got it set up. This is to watch VHS tapes , both recorded from broadcast TV in the 1990s, as well as commercial purchased VHS tapes (that would likely have macrovision ). What’s a good solution for that?
It depends on your budget. If you’re looking to just try something out and see how it works, I’d start with the $25 “composite to HDMI” boxes on Amazon. They’re not good, but maybe that’s all you need. If you decide this is important to you - especially if you ever digitize them - Get a RetroTINK. The 4K is best, but probably overkill unless you have a high-end home theater. The 5x is really great too. Hopefully there were enough examples in this video to give you a sense of what to expect.
That’s the ONLY video of his that is filled with mistakes. His channel is so good, but those process color wrong, have no time base correction and often mess up the aspect ratio. They’re only good when on a tight budget.
Shielded cables offer a greater resistance towards electromagnetic interference (EMI) which allows for a cleaner and hopefully more accurate transmission of data and thus, a better video/audio experience. As far as telling if they are shielded, you'd probably have to open the cables up to fully know. That said, any reputable manufacturer should boast quite openly if their cables are of that quality.
Just got my RT4K this morning and have a whole pile of tapes to digitize, so this upload’s timing is pretty ideal. This is extremely useful so thanks for another great explainer vid, Bob!
Thanks very much!! I’d love to collab sometime. We could totally nerd out!
Hi,
Was gifted a bunch of VHS tapes containing recordings of Red Wings Playoff games from '97. I wanna digitize them with my new Retrotink 4k but don't have a capture card. What do you recommend?
My goal is to upload them to UA-cam.
@@RetroRGBgreat video. Thanks for making this video
last place i expected to see LGR
(but at the sametime makes so much sense for him lol)
The Retrotink 4K is the best analog-to-digital solution there is, especially for the cost. However I wish the time base correction did more correction. At places where I paused the original camcorder tape in camera, it will often jump and sometimes even show a quick frame from several minutes ago that for some reason is still in the RT4K's buffer. The RT5X also does this. It doesn't seem to have issues where I paused the recordings on a VHS tape, just old 8mm and Hi8 tapes that were then transferred to VHS. EDIT: I'm gonna try to get a JVC Super VHS as that's how the recordings were made. I currently only have a Mitsubishi S-VHS so maybe it doesn't like JVC recordings I dunno. Wouldn't hurt to have a spare VCR anyway.
*Lordsmurf doesn't like this*
@@JnL_SSBM Who the F is Lordsmurf?
UPDATE: I have a real Time Base Corrector arriving. I hope it works. The JVC VCR did not work. I have a lot of stuff to digitize while I still can.
@@GameSack lordsmurf once said that Retrotink 5x or 4K are inaccurate since it's a retro gaming scaler, not a Time Base Corrector. I have a decent Panasonic Diga DMR ES-15 as a TBC.
@@JnL_SSBM I'm not sure LordSmurf is entirely wrong about the TINKs, but until Mike implements proper 576i passthrough it's hard for me to test/compare and get accurate results as I only have PAL tapes.
I have an actual standalone TBC, and playback wise through when compared to the TINK-5X, it seemed to perform comparably. I'd still love to perform some more robust testing though if a 576i mode comes.
Bob! This is a great video! I’m a sysadmin at a library and help with a variety of patron needs, especially VHS to digital conversations, up until this video, there just wasn’t a solution that could be implemented without a substantial amount of staff time, until now!
We’ll be able to offer this service again! Genuinely grateful for this!
Even though I can't afford to get into Retro Gaming or Pro-Level Tape Transfer yet, this is still really informative and entertaining to watch. UA-cam channels such as yourself, MLiG, and MVG really make my mind run wild with different scaler and hardware possibilities!
Considering we both own old VHS Players and Consoles using analog connections, including the Xbox 360, PS3, and Nintendo Wii, it's awesome to capture stuff with a Retrotink 5x device, as it's my go to device for 1080p stuff, including recording stuff on my PS2, PS1, Nintendo Gamecube, Nintendo 64, Nintendo Wii, and Xbox 360 to be exact.
This is BRILLIANT! My skater friends have TONS of videos still locked on VHS. What a godsend!
This is what I'm using this mostly for! I have the whole 411VM VHS-only releases collection. Epic.
@@shredbraahh8606 please let us know if you end up uploading those to UA-cam. Loved 411VM growing up.
Yeah please @ me as well if any of you upload any digitized old skating stuff❤
I wanna see y'all stuff tbh. Love skating
I remember speaking with Mike years ago about the abundant pros of developing a TBC for the Tink 5x-Pro (both for him and for the community). People were already playing with using the 2x-Pro for VHS capture (I was one of them) - and it was good! I already owned TBC hardware but it seemed obvious that with the 5x's increased capabilities, it would be the perfect modern device for added TBC functionality if he was able to swing the focus and time for development because as anyone doing VHS capture or archiving knows, TBCs were (and still) are insanely priced! He was pretty resistant to the idea for quite a while (who else remembers?). But I think enough of us ended up hounding him about it (I definitely kept bringing it up to him haha), he came around and we ended up getting it for our 5x-Pros! Amazing work! Now here we all are a few more years later, the 4K is out and enthusiasts are sitting pretty! My RetroTINK 4K is excellent and it couples well with my other TBC hardware just like my 5x-Pro did (Thanks, Mike!). Also, thank you for the video, Bob! I love deep dives like this - keep up the great work!
Can't wait to see your Domesday Duplicator video...btw, the team over at VHS-Decode are in the process of finalizing the MISRC hardware, a successor to the DdD, which will be able to capture multiple streams simultaneously(so manually syncing multiple audio/video captures will finally become a thing of the past).
Besides having to jack into the the VTR/VCR hardware, the separate audio recording and manual syncing process is the main reason I never went with that process. Besides the huge processing times.
What timing! I literally used my retrotink 5x to digitize over 100 hours of family videos that were stored on mini vhs. The tink made it so easy that the hardest part was swapping the mini vhs’s out every hour. Glad to see this practical use of the product being covered, especially since I didn’t realize how expensive/ low quality the “home videos digitize” market was.
I heard some recorder's which have TBC will produce image with altered colour, so it looks kind of washed out and not like how it looks on the original tape, how closely do your digitised files resemble the original mini VHS footage?
Thank you for this guide. I am recording my mom and dad's old home VHS tapes, and I will give them to my dad on a flash drive for Father's Day. Thank you!!!
Great video! I'm glad we're seeing modern capture techniques like this and domesday. I'll be happy to see us move on from the current "recommended" techniques involving WinXP, huffyuv and insanely priced TBCs.
On behalf of my laserdisc collection, thanks.
Thanks very much!!!!
Will this capture the digital and AC-3 audio tracks perfectly?
@jonrobinson6851 I'm just running composite and stereo into the RetroTink and then HDMI out of that into my capture card, so it's just a basic stereo capture. Not sure if any capture cards are capable of doing surround sound. I know mine can't.
@@cnrobinson5401 Which capture card are you using, Mr. Robinson?
@@jonrobinson6851 I'm using the AVerMedia Live Gamer Portable 2 PLUS. Specifically in the "PC-Free" mode where it just captures direct to an SD card. It isn't the fanciest capture card available, but it works well enough for some basic captures.
I can't get over how wonderful this video is. Thanks so much for all the work that went into it (and your expertise)!
Thank you!
Had my 5x-pro laying around because of how much retro gaming I do. This video informed me a ton and I'm glad it can "replace" an expensive vintage TBC for something more cost effective for general home use.
I miss when UA-cam intros when commonplace. Now nobody has the attention span to appreciate it. Thanks for reminding me of a better time of UA-cam.
I digitized all of my family’s home videos with my TINK 2X mini and HD60 Pro in late 2020. There were lots of signal drops and other issues. Going to redo this project with my TINK 5X and your tips! Thank you!!
Let us know if it improved things.
Wow what a dope video. We make documentaries on VHS here in Prague and have been looking for a better method to transfer. Thanks for the in-depth video!
have you seen the japanese & korean dvd masters? they're better than your original masters
just commenting to express my appreciation for your content and ability to cover complicated topics in digestible ways.
been interested in VHS digitizing for a while now and i learned more in this video than in countless hours of googling.
Thanks so much!!!
Thank you! This made my day. I've been eagerly waiting for this video ever since I got my RetroTINK 4K.
I have used so many devices to capture vhs and so many suck. My favorites have been a standalone Sony DVD recorder with internal time base correction, a combination of a cheap AV2HDMI dongle with an $11 hdmi capture dongle using QuickTime to record, and a very old windows XP PC using Dazzle usb 1.1 capture have been my go to vhs capture methods among the dozens I’ve tried. This looks very cool but I don’t see myself spending $500+ on a retrotink to digitize vhs tapes. I’m happy to see the analog to digital conversion community still striving for perfection though. Preservation is so important.
I took a totally different approach to digitalizing my old VHS. I used a Panasonic DVD Recorder as a passthrough device to take advantage of its TBC elements and capture in my PC with an analog capture device (Diamond VC500). I kept everything in 480i to let the upscaling and deinterlacing to the reproducing device. This way I can always take advantage of better upscaling and deinterlacing algorithms that will come in the future, like AI-based upscaling, for example.
That's an absolutely excellent way to digitize VHS. LOL, no sarcasm, it's my preferred method in many cases.
This is extremely timely and helpful! My family was just talking yesterday about how we need to digitize our tapes before they go bad, I realized I could probably do it with the RT4K, and low and behold you posted this only 10 days ago! Thank you!!
I just ordered a Retrotink5x for VHS ripping after getting an HDMI capture card! I'm very excited to try out the TBC in it, especially for tapes you can't buy on DVD!
Great timing on this video Bob as I’m hoping to backup some old 8mm and vhs tapes. This was super informative. Looking forward to that upcoming archival vid too!
Thanks so much!!! That was really nice of you!
Congratulations on your tips and solutions for RetroTINK. An experience I had with a promotional video that came as bonus media on a CD. The video came in a MOV file that was certainly compressed to fit on the 700mb CD (this CD is from 2001). This video was recorded at 15fps and the promotional video was probably recorded on a digital camera from the 90s, as the song is from 1995. Due to the blurred colors it could be that it was recorded on an analogue camera. very likely. The most interesting thing is that I tried to scale it to HD at 60fps using PC programs and the 15fps effect simply doesn't change. The only software I didn't use was TopazVideo due to my PC being limited and I don't have a dedicated video card. But it's incredible I used 4 video conversion and scaling software and the fps rate doesn't change. I managed to trick this by increasing the speed time which apparently disappeared the feeling of video recorded at 15fps. I even uploaded the video on my channel of this version that I supposedly cheated on. ajajaja.
Вы прекрасно все обьясняете! Рад,что нас сближают наши увлечения!Спасибо вам!
Truly appreciate the amount of effort you put into these videos, this is outstanding information and will be a reference for people for years. I have some old tapes I would like to convert and this is probably overkill, but I still enjoyed all the detail.
Thanks so much for the kind words!
Also it should be noted that if you use S-video, be sure to disable 3D Comb Filtering completely in the ADC menu. If left enabled, you'll get a trailing afterimage that can be noticed mostly on fast-moving objects. You don't need 3D Comb Filtering with S-video anyway, so just turn it off.
Oh, really? I gotta go back and test that. I didn’t notice anything like that…but my focus was composite. Thanks for the heads up!
My family has a whole stack of Hi-8 tapes that i promised id digitize years ago, but after a few days playing with a Dazzle, j wasnt satisfied enough to wanna continue, as I'd likely wanna re evaluate my process. Very excited to learn from this video - perhaps I'll finally finish the project!
Thanks Bob! Being a fan of your concise summaries and reasonable methodology, I've been looking forward to this video since that first VHS live stream!
You mentioned the QTGMC process in one of your titles-that’s generally the best way to handle mixed framerate content like 24p animation with 60i overlays. I’ve used it extensively in my AI upscale of the Super Mario Bros. Super Show.
Seeing this makes me realize I'd love to have a physical media player for my VHS and DVD rips that that emulates scanlines and VHS-style fast-forward and rewind, maybe in a VCR shell/case. It would be great for VHS anime rips in particular.
Emulating VHS fast-forward and rewind would be hard. Well, more that it'd be really CPU-intensive, as doing so would require decoding the video much faster than real-time. The stuttering of digital FF/RW is down to just decoding the rare frames that are compressed using only information within the frame (i-frames). The rest store differences between frames, either between itself and the last i-frame (p-frames), or between itself and the neighbouring i-frames or -p-frames (b-frames).
Thank you so much Bob for this amazing deep dive. I don't have a capture card and although that's a basic first step, I didn't really know what I would need to attempt this. I have a 5X and have been considering upgrading to the 4K, especially since I've been having trouble getting the firmware updater to recognize the 5X. Your video made me realize with my current setup I'm not quite ready to get the 4K for video capture and I really need to upgrade my computer setup first. After doing that, I do feel I'll have the confidence to digitize some of those old home movies, with this reference in tow.
So glad I could help!
Thank you - Thank you - Thank you! This is precisely what I needed to know. Great video!
Bought a retrotink5x last year to transfer my parents wedding, my grandparents wedding anniversary and videos of my brother after we found them when cleaning my abuela's house. Bought a s-VHS player with a built in TBC since their was warping on the top of the picture but now the retrotink5x fixes the warping by its self now. My parents where happy that the tapes are now on the computer since one my mom overwrote the her original wedding tape by mistake so she though it was lost and we don't have anything of my brother digital since he wasn't around in the digital world.
Thanks for sharing! Glad it worked out :)
What an excellent video! I really liked how you highlighted the aspect of time & effort per transferred tape. Personally, I’ve used an old SVHS deck by JVC that has a DV out and then done deinterlacing and upscaling in ffmpeg, and this has definitely meant that I’ve skipped capturing certain tapes completely because the amount of effort required (tranferring files from my MacBook to NAS and then running ffmpeg for half an hour to produce the two H264 files I want).
Yeah, you really experienced the "time" aspect of it all. I can spend a day getting an amazing transfer of a tape...or spend an hour getting an almost-as-amazing version using a TINK. Sometimes it's absolutely worth the effort though! But definitely not always :)
BTW, why don't you use FCPX for importing the DV stream (via Firewire) and use the hardware encoders? They're (both H.264 and H.265) are superfast (a lot faster than realtime on anything Apple Silicon) and are now pretty good.
Great Video Bob. I live in Brazil and an important thing to have in mind if you pretend to digitize VHS with brazilian VCR's, you have to use a VCR that has the option to chage from Pal M to NTSC because as far as i tested scalers wont work correctly with PAL-M signals, it will be in black or whit or all wobbly and no good to watch, so for you to properly capture you will need to set your VCR to NTSC, not all VCR's released in brazil have that option, but lots of them will, in same cases you will need the VCR cotroller to change the video region.
I never understud why Brazil uses PAL-M instead of PAL-N like Uruguay and Argentina or NTSC like the rest of America
@@sos.gamers i dont know either, but it sucks, i've gotta to change my retrogames console from pal m to ntsc to use with the retrotink 2x
@@matherzinsstuff3410 RT2x doesn't support PAL-M? Retrotink 4K can handle PAL-N and PAL-M just perfect
@@sos.gamers the rt2x does not, the 5x and 4k i've never tested
@@sos.gamers Pal N was created in Argentina in 1976-77, Pal M is from 1972, the question would be why not NTSC since Brazil had the monochrome system M, 525 lines 30 FPS, (Brazil's AC is 60 Hz) and changing to a 625 line system would have been very expensive, well, that was due to the intensive advertising campaign Telefunken and Philips carried out in Brazil in 1972, which included colour test broadcasts of popular shows (done with TV Globo) and technical demonstrations with executives of television stations. Another advantage of Pal M is the simplicity of converting to and from NTSC, since only the colour carrier is changed.
Just bought a Retrotink 4k from the restock!!! YES
Considering my $1000 vcr went kaput this vid could not have come at a better time
Bookmarking this for later/ adding to UA-cam engagement with a comment. This is going to be so helpful. God bless you, Bob. Or Beer bless you, if you prefer.
Thanks Jimmy!
32:02 inverse telecine works wonders on 25fps PAL film content too. Just wish there was a 25hz de-judder option like there is for 24hz!
Thanks Bob! Absolutely fantastic video that helped me set up my RetroTink for VHS capture.
finally someone talking about time base correction, thanks for making this!
I have been waiiting for this video forever
Finally got one coming in later today. May have to revisit the Coliseum Video project of mine…..
another minus for the SoundBeast device (and most other devices I've tried in this class) is that is "de-interlaces" by discarding half the frames. You can see this by stepping frame by frame in the comparison section at around 23:37 (press , or . on the keyboard) and the retrotink maintains 60fps while the Soundbeast only steps every other frame. Thank you for uploading the video in 60fps by the way!
Ugh, I didn’t even realize that. Lol, but to be honest, it was SO BAD, I didn’t pay much attention to it. Thanks for the heads up.
I came here to comment on this as well. I can tell just by looking at the side-by-side footage that the motion in the Soundbeast isn’t as smooth as the RetroTink, indicating that it’s deinterlacing to 30p instead of 60p. Definitely not something I want to use for anything that was shot on camcorders or any other 60i source.
I use an original 2x to digitize my grandma’s camcorder tapes. She had a Hi8 camera so dropouts weren’t an issue. I now use my 5x and it’s great.
This came at the perfect ish time. I just used my tink5x yesterday to transfer a recent tape I recorded over the last year. Gonna now watch this and see if there’s any tips I can use for my next tape
Correcting IVTC issues especially on Anime is especially difficult and often comes down to throwing out individual fields and then scaling the one you keep, or (hopefully) manually matching them with specialized tools, so I wouldn't expect the Retrotink to be able to handle every case. But running it through the Retrotink with no filter and then working on the upscaled output later would still prove very useful for Anime with no HD re-release
Thank you very much for this hugely informative vid def gonna help everyone
Great stuff! This is extremely useful information for me!
I am extremely satisfied with the Retrotink 5X Pro I bought some years ago, it's been delivering on it's promises and I couldn't be happier. The 4K version is bound to be even better and I'm looking forward to see it's capabilities in the future. Perhaps some UA-cam videos got some info on it in great detail, I'll definitely go look for them. Digitalizing analog video seems like a conversion process of VHS tapes to digital media, it would be cooler if it was the other way around to digitalize into analog video. But that's just my take on it. Even better would be if it was possible to simulate a CRT screen using modern hardware and monitors.
The easiest way to record digital video to tape would probably be using an older game console that has analog outputs and can play video files, like a PS3, and recording that through your VCR. You can do the same thing with a Raspberry Pi as well, since they all have composite video outputs, but if your VCR has an S-Video input, the better option would be to use that with a game console
Definitely check out my video on the RT4K...it's CRT Simulation is even better than the RT5x's: ua-cam.com/video/E3ep6sw0c8Y/v-deo.html
I've digitized a ton of my VHS tapes, old home videos etc, using Retrotink 5X Pro. Now that I have the Retrotink 4K, I'm almost tempted to go back and try it again. The results were good already.
I'd re-capture just one of your favorite old video tapes and see what you think. You will see a difference...but is it worth re-capturing everything? Probably not, as the RT5x is already great. But who knows, maybe the RT4K will be a great match for your tapes?
Thanks!
Thank YOU!!!
Great work Bob, looking forward to the upcoming video. We all know modern screens are pretty bad at upscaling for games, but they are kind of built for handling video content. De-interlacing on the fly can be a bit of a mixed bag so I will de-interlace when digitizing but I personally don't see much reason for storing captures in 1080p or 4K when pretty much everything that plays video can upscale SD on the fly just fine and takes up less storage space. Just my opinion, would love to get more info about capturing in 480i or 480p from either the Tink 5X or 4K, or other methods. VHS decode looks very impressive but also a lot more work to set up and much more time to process.
I agree: If you have the ability to play back lossless 480i, your TV should do it just fine. That said, if you're uploading to UA-cam, Facebook, etc, you should really scale to 1080p or 4K, otherwise they'll apply their terrible deinterlacing and compression.
Excellent work Bob.
Oh boy, I can't wait for... _someone's_ reaction to this... 😂
Nice video, with one caveat: Even if you're in North America, home camcorders often used 0 IRE rather than 7.5 IRE, so if you're using 7.5 and the shadows are all black, you probably need to use zero.
Oh, really? I had a few VHS and Video8 camcorder tapes to choose from and both seemed more accurate to a CRT when in 7.5IRE. I should look into this more.
Awesome video, very curious about this for watching and scaling laserdiscs
Japanese auction sits are a gold mine of cheap high end VCR, I bought a Victor HR-VFG1 which is the japanese equivalent of a JVC hr-9911U in box with boat shipping for $250 CAN.
Absolutely fantastic! Thank you so much for this. Currently using the 5x pro, but just ordered the 4k tink today and this is going to be perfect for setting up my tape transfers. Do you have profile setup for Japanese tapes? I have them as well, in addition to my NA tapes. Thanks again!
Thanks! For Japanese tapes, I'd just try that same color profile I showed, that should already be loaded on the RT4K's SD card. If that doesn't look right, you'll have to do some more digging. Sorry, I just don't know enough about Japanese tapes to offer more info that that.
Awesome video thanks dude! 🏴☠️🏴☠️
Have some old family videos this may help with. Thank you.
Every video I see on the RT4K makes me want one more. Looking forward to the OLED CRT video you mention. Curious on what you think of filters like that potentially causing burn in.
Since the pandemic, capturing analog video became the most debated topic on the internet, Probably more than analog vs digital debates.
I have one ordered currently. I’m really excited to see how my vhs tapes look… I paid a little for my vhs player it has both component and hdmi first VHS player I’ve ever owned with hdmi out
It’s a JVC DR-MV150…. You can watch vhs straight to your flatscreen. I wouldn’t recommend it but who ever heard of VHS HDMI
How can you find out the frame rate and native resolution of your VHS and Hi8 tapes? it doesn't say on them.
Great content
I've been using a VCR with component output, run through a fancy expanded GBS-C from aliexpress ($70), and it's fantastic! the config is a little strange compared to a retrotink but the quality is superb for the price! just need to find a way to get composite into it so i'm not relying on the VCR for that.
Perfect timing man
Just subscribed. Truely awesome video. Just to clarify tho. Do both the 4K and the 5X have a TBC or just the 5X?
Thank you! And both TINK's have a TBC, however the 4K's TBC can run at both 59.94 and 60. So if you're a video purist, it's a better choice. But both are excellent!
Man this was an excellent video. It just kills me the 4K can't do 576i output yet. :C
I had to buy an Intensity Pro 4K to use temporarily to get around that and capture raw interlaced.
If that day ever comes, I will immediately slap down all $750.00 for one.
Great video, thanks. In the clips of the 4K & 5x after 26:30 the 4K clips looked a lot better than the 5x ones to me. Would you say this this typical for these devices, or was there some other reason for the difference in quality in this case?
If you’re specifically talking about the TBC test clips of Eurotrip, they’re actually not a good representation of either - I didn’t bother tweaking any settings, as I was ONLY running a TBC test. I probably should have gone back and recorded the full movie again with the pre-configured profiles, but I just used what I already had.
The main difference between the two is the RT4K’s more advanced scaling and deinterlacing. It IS better, but the RT5x is still very good.
I have an S-video VHS DVD all in one machine. I have copied VHS to DVD and it works great. All internal.
Depending on the brand and model, those can actually be great, with their own TBC built in. You're still ended up with MPEG compression on the transfer, which is noticeable in 4K...bu tby no means is that a "bad" solution. I'll demo it in the upcoming video...
Thanks for a totally absorbing video.
I already have a Panasonic VCR with built-in TBC. Would there be any advantage to turning the TBC off and using the RetroTINK instead?
Many thanks and keep up the excellent work 😎
Does the time base correction fix field alignment? Like would it straighten out the vertical border in the top right corner of the samples at 26:07? Seems like it does based on how the Tink output looks later on but a side by side would have been nice - geometric distortion is in my experience a more commonly encountered flaw than time desync when transferring VHS.
It should, yes. Just make sure you're on the newest firmware for either, as Mike recently fixed that on the RT5x and tweaked the TBC on the RT4K.
Thank you Bob! I always thought that we can use some of these scalers to digitize vhs tapes & DVDs
Also thanks for heads up on your Wednesday Update! I finally was able to order a Retrotink 4K
Nice! I use a Blackmagic Intensity Shuttle & a separate AVT-8710 time-base corrector. I then upscale in DaVinci. Would be nice to have a single device for all 3 steps.
That's a great setup. If you do this often though, I agree: Use your current setup for direct capture and use the TINK's whenever you just want an HD version.
Bob, another great video. I’m thinking an optimal viewing/settings video for using the Tink 5X and 4K on modern displays is coming? Optimal viewing settings with LD and VHS opposed to archiving I mean.
Thank you! I'd suggest using this exact profile for viewing...but then try adding the CRT Emulation filters. Also, if you have a RT4K and a 120Hz TV, absolutely try the BFI settings too! Each TV will look different, but I think you'll find small effects work really well.
Oh, I forgot: "CRT Simulate" deinterlacing alternates the lines just like a CRT. It's such a cool effect! LOL, TERRIBLE for archiving, but really great for watching.
4:53 I've been using the enhanced s-video mode for VHS and laserdisc playback and the increase in quality is staggering. Why wouldn't you use it when it works so well?
I’ve heard about this feature. Can you describe what it does?
It's designed for the sharpness of video games, not TV content. While it might work well with some sources, it's something you should test on a case-by-case basis and not just leave it on.
@pokepress www.retrorgb.com/retrotink-4k-vhs-enhanced-s-video-firmware.html
@@RetroRGB Thanks. Side-by side comparisons have been really sparse on that. Looks like it makes the luma transitions "tighter" for lack of a better term.
It looks amazing in person. Very sharp, but it also got rid of issues I had with colour bleed on laserdisc. It doesn't work 100% of the time with PAL VHS, but I haven't had any issues with NTSC. This comment thread is the first I've seen about it only really being meant for video games - nothing on the firmware release or the videos going in to it when the firmware was released.
I have the JVC HR-S7800U with the built-in TBC, but I have a single tape that slants to the left with it off, and has tearing at the top with it on, where one field is good, but the other is wavy. I had to use the Panasonic unit you have there in passthrough to fix it. It's known as a poor man's TBC. It drops some frames here and there though, but at least it doesn't tear anymore. I use a Hauppauge 1800 with AmaRecTV. Virtualdub keeps losing audio sync after 55 minutes or so, but AmaRecTV has been rock solid. I tried using a scaler before, and it did look impressive, but I want it output as 30fps, interlaced, so I can deinterlace and interpolate to 60 in post. All the upscalers are only outputting at 60, not 30. 😥
I would suggest turning the RT4K off completely and back on after upgrading firmware. I've had issues with mine losing one audio channel after upgrading until properly restarted
35:40 IMO that's one of the creepiest X-files episodes ever, my god... that can't be a coincidence you picked that one.😅😅
That one freaked me out as a kid. I watched it sitting on my grandparents floor, the first day it aired :)
@@RetroRGB I blame your grandparents. Look what they've done: you can only think about analog stuff since then. 😁 That "rubberman" or whatever episode was hella creppy.
btw I would love to see what the 2X scaler + Atomos Ninja V or some other HDMI capture card could do in a tapeless/portable situation. I think I'm gonna discover it on my own, but I did not see anyone else try it before.
Yaaaaay! Makes me wanna buy a 2nd retrotink lol
Awesome this helped out a ton! I'm getting tired of taking chances with those cheap converters on Amazon. I will look into getting one of the RetroTINKs soon, but are there any specifics that would lead you to recommend one more than the other, like would you recommend the 4K or 5x more? Or is either one just fine?
P.S. I'm glad you mentioned Reasonable British, I loved his capture card comparisons too, but I had no idea there were other RetroTINK devices outside of the one he reviewed until I found this video.
Thank you! Both are great, but I'd let your total use case make the decision: Is the 3D comb filter a priority for you? Will you also use it for gaming and watching older video content? Are you a tape transfer shop that wants to give your customers a 4K file? Then the extra money of the RT4K is absolutely worth it.
...but if you're just a casual gamer, or only need 1080p files, the RT5x is more than enough.
@@RetroRGB gotcha, think I may go with the 4K, thank you so much!
I once came across combing artifacts in a PAL movie I recorded from TV (PAL, obviously) in 25p. It was the only time I saw them in a PAL movie. I can't remember now if I got rid of them in full, but I know I used a very CPU-intensive deinterlacer plugin in Virtual Dub in 2003...
what's a pal movie? it has 3 different meanings:
1. 24p sped up to 25p then interlaced to 50i
2. 24p converted to 50i
3. 25p interlaced to 50i
@@gamecubeplayer you're right, one has to be precise. A PAL movie recorded from TV, that is, 50i - but should have deinterlaced easily into 25p with 2:2 pulldown, right? That's what I thought, but the combing artifacts were all over the place, so I don't know what the problem was. It was the only instance of a 50i PAL movie I recorded from TV which produced combing artifacts. Have you had any experience with 50i PAL movies?
@@radiozelazait was most likely 2
@@gamecubeplayer could be. What is even weirder then that it was a European movie, so they should have been aware of the problems of 24->50 conversion and opted for the speed-up instead...
@@radiozelazathey could've done it like pat & mat that was shot on film at 25fps which makes 3 the best option
Thank you so much for this video Bob! My conundrum is I have a ton of Sony Video8 analog video camera tapes from the 80s-90s that I recorded and my Camera died and finding a working Video8 camera or VTP is pretty impossible. So many of my teenage videos are locked away for me and it's sad.
Where do you live? Usually getting a working camcorder is not that hard, getting a good one with line TBC will be a little bit more expensive, Camcorders did not get abused like VCRs, most of their defects are due to aging, dried up grease, perished rubber or failed capacitors.
Funny you mention Video 8 - That's the exact format of my home movies that I'm starting to re-digitize! I just bought a Sony Hi8 player that's backwards-compatible. Not cheap, but you can always re-sell it when you're done transferring. It's been working great for me so far. Here's an affiliate link to the exact model: ebay.us/TcKc46
@@RetroRGB I'm a novice just now setting up to digitize about 30 Hi-8 tapes filmed between 1995-2003. I have the same Sony Hi8 recorder that you just purchased! I've tried an old VidBox capture device that I had laying around and used OBS Studio on a Windows 11 computer. The quality I'm getting isn't great. I'm pretty sure that the VidBox is only capturing at half resolution (720x240), which is part of the problem. What capture device do you plan to use? I think the Hi8 tapes are 480 30p. Is that an issue for the RetroTink setup?
Excellent. Another reason to buy this. If you are doing a CRT emulation on the RetroTINK in future it would be interesting to see if it can be used to "enhance" video quality of DVDs in any way. A lot of cartoons, TV-shows and concert videos are released on DVD only. Maybe this can bump the quality a bit?
Oh, absolutely! Both the TINK's CRT Emulation is amazing, as well as the "CRT Simulate" deinterlacing. You can make a DVD "feel" like it's running on a really nice CRT. The IVTC stuff is great for true 24p stuff. And if you have a 120Hz TV and the RT4K, the BFI options (especially with IVTC) are pretty impressive!
@RetroRGB - Hey man, awesome video! Just to clarify, are there any advantages to the RetroTINK 5X-Pro versus the 4K in terms of capturing S-VHS specifically via S-video? As in things like time base correction, frame sync, filtering, or anything else? I'm looking at these two devices to try out another workflow for VHS digitizing, and I want to understand if there are any advantages / disadvantages of going with 5X-pro or 4K for VHS home video capture (assuming latest firmware for both devices). Also any advantages or disadvantages between these devices for NTSC 525i (480i or 486i visible lines) passthrough?
Thank you! If you’re doing 480i capture (the other TINK VHS video), they’re both the same. If you’re capturing in HD, the RT4K is better…but I wouldn’t recommend spending that much more money just for VHS capture. That said, if you’re using the RT4K for video games or watching TV/Movies, they’re go for it :)
…oh, and if you use the RT5X, make sure it’s running the latest (always free) firmware: www.retrorgb.com/retrotink-5x-576i-passthrough-added.html
Fantastic video. I feel like there's a niche crowd (based on my random assumption) looking to preserve analog video using a video upscaler/line doubler, and it's great you made such a detailed and informative video for us. I had a general idea of what a TBC does, but this video really helped explained what they do and the results one can expect. I think you've practically convinced me to pick up a Retrotink 5x for my tape conversion. Fortunately my tapes aren't near the level of damage as the one you tested with during the video, so I think other than a small amount of distortion which shouldn't take much away from the conversion, my tapes should be looking great in digital formats.
I do have a question. During the 6 way comparison around 7:24, I noticed the RT5x is a bit more washed out than the other captures. Is this due to whatever settings you had the RT5x set to?
Thanks! So, that TBC comparison was ONLY testing the TBC. Setting were all over the place and not a good representation of ANYTHING other than TBC. Sorry about that, I should have specified.
@@RetroRGB No worries and thanks for the explanation! Keep up the great work on the videos!
Good stuff! Now that the Tink 4k CE is coming soon, which would be better for VHS capturing? The 5x or the 4k CE?
They’re both excellent and 480i passthrough would be the same if you’re using S-Video. If you’re going to HD resolutions, pick whichever your target is: 1080p or 4K :)
Could you make a video tutorial explaining how to configure RetroTINK 4K also for the PAL VHS format of VCRs, please? Thank you
I added the 59.94 from the list on the card but when I select it on setup, HDMI output, it won't go active.
I’m new to RetroTINK stuff but I must admit it sounds impressive. I am thinking to get the old school NES console and get Super Mario Bros 1, 2, 3 games. I notice that on older CRT TVs the Super Mario Bros 1 for instance had a robust sky blue color for the sky backon world 1-1 whereas on modern tv the game screen is stretched and darker blue to purplish color. I am looking for the best possible upscaler for the NES console to my Samsung OLED TVS95 so the colors match up perfectly from older CRT TVs. What do you recommend regardless of the price? Thanks!
As a wild idea, if you copy the video at least 3 times, with different levels of brightness, and use some HDR software on the individual images, I wonder if there is enough info to get an HDR effect?
Would be interesting to find out.
I love all your videos! Thank you for the time you spend to create them. Influenced by this video, I got me a Tink4k and have started tinkering with it. I saw the model calculator link, used it to output a 29.97 frame rate, and loaded it on the SD. The Tink sees it in the list but fails to load it when chosen. I'm using a BMD Video Assist for my capture device. It does support a 1080/29.97p input. But something it isn't liking coming from the Tink. It just keeps reverting back to 4K/60p in the menu. Any ideas on what's up? Thank you!
Thanks for the kind words! Did you try the modelines from the zip file?: www.retrorgb.com/assets/RT4K_VHS_2024-08-04.zip
@@RetroRGB Of course...but those aren't the res and framerates I'm needing. Like I said above, I made a HD model with a 29.97 framerate. It loades but does not work. Just wondering what I'm missing?
You could try the other modes in the modeline calculator. I usually use CVT, but try another and see what happens?
@@RetroRGB That did the trick. I just kept tinkering with it. Thank you for the suggestion. One thing. Switching IRE to 7.5 made the picture way too dark for my taste. In fact, the entire unit on the footage I had outputted a darker image than the actual tape. I'm never had to tweak any controls in the past with any interface I've used.
It's possible the original recording with in a different IRE. Very cool you found the solution so quickly.
the osprey capture looks incredible 😢
I did have to deal with PAL VHS in 24fps, but I couldn't decide if I need to use 2:2 or 2:3 IVTC as it's 50 field per second
Have you tried capturing VHS through YPbPr? For some reason this looked so much better to me.
My VCR is a DVD combo unit and has component out which also works for VHS and while it looks the same as composite connected to a TV it really makes a difference with the Tink5x. YPbPr is handled by a different part of the system (for lack of a better term) and not by the SDP. It's really strange and I like the look.
This is a great video! I wonder how the Tink4K handles color space since SD used the 601 standard and HD/UHD use the 709 color standard. Does the Tink4K correctly convert 601 to 709? Also I noticed Bob using a RGB capture setting rather than YUV? I was curious why since video uses the YUV standard. Lastly, since this is HDMI, how does setting full or partial impact the video levels?
All excellent questions. The TINK should auto-detect and convert 601 to 709 with no issue. And my recording settings were RGB when capturing the TINK's output, as it's outputting 4K in the RGB colorspace. But I'll dig MUCH deeper into capture settings in the upcoming video!
That makes a lot of sense. Thanks! I work in TV and film making docs that use archival material. So I have tons of experience digitizing tapes, along with a full TBC analog capture system running on WinXP haha. I dabbled with the 5x on my last feature film as test. Have the 4K and been following the progression of tape capture. Thanks a ton for documenting all this work.
My use case is exclusively to compensate for the new TVs not having composite in. So I need a box to zip tie behind the flatscreen that will take in the composite video from the AVR and convert it to HDMI for its 2 ft run to one of the HDMI inputs on the back of the flat panel tv. Key is , not having to use a remote to turn it on or configure it after I’ve got it set up.
This is to watch VHS tapes , both recorded from broadcast TV in the 1990s, as well as commercial purchased VHS tapes (that would likely have macrovision ).
What’s a good solution for that?
It depends on your budget. If you’re looking to just try something out and see how it works, I’d start with the $25 “composite to HDMI” boxes on Amazon. They’re not good, but maybe that’s all you need.
If you decide this is important to you - especially if you ever digitize them - Get a RetroTINK. The 4K is best, but probably overkill unless you have a high-end home theater. The 5x is really great too.
Hopefully there were enough examples in this video to give you a sense of what to expect.
technology connections made a video where he said that a cheap av2hdmi converter looks good with vhs & it also ignores macrovision
That’s the ONLY video of his that is filled with mistakes. His channel is so good, but those process color wrong, have no time base correction and often mess up the aspect ratio. They’re only good when on a tight budget.
@@RetroRGBat least it's better than whatever odc 3 rynna used back in march 9th 1999
How can you know if your cables are "shielded" and why do they have to be?
Shielded cables offer a greater resistance towards electromagnetic interference (EMI) which allows for a cleaner and hopefully more accurate transmission of data and thus, a better video/audio experience. As far as telling if they are shielded, you'd probably have to open the cables up to fully know. That said, any reputable manufacturer should boast quite openly if their cables are of that quality.