Pilots: How do you mitigate Nausea / Anxiety AND show Px Fun Flying?
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- Опубліковано 27 вер 2024
- Nuances of introducing people to #Aviation Awesomeness!
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In this episode I flip the “fun switch” in the RV-14 and take my long time friend Chris for his first #Aerobatics #Flight - this is Why I Fly - Sharing these experiences is so rewarding!
Slight glitch that I forgot to give him a sick bag, but despite a close call, he made it with his lunch intact:)
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I am a "weekend warrior" private pilot, I fly for fun with no intentions of going commercial. I have had my PPL for over 15 years, but still consider each flight a learning experience - I generally take detailed notes after each flight to remind myself what went well or what I could do to improve.... Having GoPro cameras to record flights like this is invaluable. I find these self analysis videos very helpful in my constant quest to improve, and am happy to share. Feedback is invited; however, please keep it positive.
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Awesome content, Steve! I'm just about to hit my 7th year anniversary of being a FC Patreon, and these are still worth every penny. 😎Here's to the next 7.🍻
Fantastic! Thanks so much for the ongoing support Jon! I can't thank you guys enough for helping keep the content creation sustainable all these years!
@@FlightChops It's a genuine pleasure. The way the channel has evolved is awesome. Even the big production stuff still feels down to earth and real like your very first grassroots videos, which makes it so good. You're probably directly responsible for getting an insane number of people hooked on the awesome money and time-sink which is general aviation. (Me included! Where do I send the bill for those hours?😁)
Here's how I mitigated motion sickness when I went through flight school, it didn't completely get rid of it, but it was reduced to levels I could tolerate most of the time
For preparation
Make sure you get plenty of sleep the night before (fatigue breeds airsickness)
Avoid drinks like coffee or energy drinks (as tempting as they may be to fight off fatigue, just say no)
Have a LIGHT meal about 2h before takeoff (avoid greasy food, dairy, and McDonald's or other fast food) eat to around 30% capacity, the point where you're not really hungry, but also nowhere near full, also avoid carbonated drinks or dairy before flying
Tell your instructor before takeoff, and keep him/her informed during the flight, you will NOT get points docked for handing over control to your instructor while you chuck your guts up (that actually shows good CRM) and a good instructor won't dock points for you needing to stop doing maneuvers for a few minutes while you recover and get your bearings
Drink water before and during the flight (I'd recommend bringing a thermos filled with ice water and mixed with a little bit of lemon juice and ginger) if you're feeling sick, just sip from it, enough to cool the inside of your mouth, but not enough to shock your stomach
THE COLD IS YOUR WINGMAN
It's not foolproof, but blasting cold air on my face got rid of the worst of it for me, I still didn't feel amazing, but it helped a lot
NEVER fly in summer, I repeat, NEVER... FLY... IN... SUMMER!!!
Heat makes motion sickness 10X worse, as does intense direct sunlight (for me anyway) there's also more wind and stronger turbulence in summer
I found the best time to fly was very early in the morning (6-7AM) when wind and turbulence was less severe, sunlight was less intense, and the temperatures were at their lowest, get to your desired altitude as soon as possible, then crank that cold outside air as high as it goes (or if your plane has AC, precool the cabin during taxi and run up, then, crank that shit to the max as soon as you can after takeoff)
Fly over water whenever possible, there's far less turbulence over water
During my spin training, I actually brought a small 2KG oxygen cylinder onboard with me, and when I felt sick, I took a hit from it and felt better within seconds (not all instructors will let you bring one, but explain your reasoning and you'll probably be allowed to if you can stow it safely)
During turns and pitch changes DO NOT MOVE YOUR HEAD (that will make it several orders of magnitude worse) look with your eyes only
When flying in windy conditions, look outside and focus on something in the distance (like a cell tower, the top of a mountain, a lake, a runway, or a building) if it's safe to do so (such as if you've handed over control to your instructor so you can recover)
Looking at your instrument panel can also help with some people (particularly if your aircraft has a glass cockpit with a large ADI such as the G1000 package that my training aircraft had)
Think before you move the stick, and try to anticipate what the plane is going to do and what it'll feel like, so you can mentally prepare for it (works great when I'm riding in a car and I can see the road ahead and anticipate the turns)
Begin the flight with the mindset that you will NOT get sick (thinking about it and worrying about it just makes it worse)
try to convince yourself that you are immune to airsickness and that it won't affect you (motion sickness is just as much a mental game as it is a physiological game)
And finally
Bring a few sick bags and a box of tissues with you, just incase
Hope that helps
Best Advice anywhere, Thank You.
@@kingstudzconstruction2018 all those tips combined were about 90% effective
If I had to pick the top 3 that were most effective for me (in order of most effective to least)
1: fly over water
2: turn the cabin into a freezer
2: don't eat too much or too little
Thanks, I'm going to save this advice for the next time I get up in something small. In 20 years, I've had one fixed wing lesson, one helo lesson, and a few even shorter glider flights. Even straight and level, I can barely manage 10 minutes before sickness strikes, starting with the cold sweats, tunnel vision and distant hearing. Luckily, I don't get sick in VR in simulators so that's the direction the aviation dream has gone for me. Much cheaper too (my family can eat).
When I was first taking lessons back in college I was fine as far as no motion sickness but when we started more turns and stalls/unusual attitude recovery the vertigo came on strong , I never lost my lunch but it was almost enough to render me unable to fly the plane! My instructor told me to find something to look at out near the horizon and line it up with either the edge of the windsheild or door frame while making the turns, It worked, instantly better and after a few flights never had issue again!
Those are some great specific insights I hadn't heard before!
I'll incorporate some of this into future Px briefings. Thnx
Wow, paint job is awesome.
Yeah - Evoke does an amazing job
As usual, I really enjoyed the editing of this video: several angles, a short but excellent summary of your guest personal life, still a lot of work that makes watching your videos so pleasant. It reminded me of memories while during my pilot training, I discovered that I easily got airsick. When I was learning to navigate by instruments, "blind" and I caught a glimpse of the ground out of the corner of my eye. The outside didn't move as I felt it and I almost couldn't hold back and watered the panel of the C-172. Thank you again for your work, Steve!
Thanks Richard - this was a record breaking fast episode turn around (flight Monday / published Friday). But I still put the love into the edit, and I really appreciate your noticing.
I so feel with Chris there. Been there. Done that. 😁 Wanted to try out aerobatics at least once. Ended up doing it twice. 😁 And my instructor there gave me some good advices. First always the correct body posture during G-loads. Stay upright, never hunch. And don't overthink the motion sickness. It is normal. When you get it you get it. Except it but focus on everything else. If you sit there and think all the time, oh, I'm gonna get sick from that one very sure - guess what! you will. So don't. Always have you focus outside, the horizon or landmarks. Adrenaline is a great anti-sickness remedy.
In general with anxious pax, keep them busy, explain everything whats going on, let them watch out for traffic or some landmarks, or let them have the stick. And of course always brief them before where the bags are, if they would need them. Just to know takes a lot of pressure of your minds.
Get insights here - I agree with all of it
F Bomb frequency - LOL. As mentioned before - just love your RV :)
😎
I went up in an Extra 330 with a customer, lasted 20 minutes doing serious aerobatics, but got green around the gills after some serious Gs and vertical climbs. I had packed a sick bag in my chest pocket, but because the Extra has standard double sided shoulder harnesses, I could not reach it. We made it back to the airport alright, and I was fine, but if we continued I would have had cleanup duty for sure.
That was a close call :P
I had my first barfer this fall, a friend from work who was keen to get his PPL wanted to come for a ride, and he was actually doing the flying when he began to feel ill, so I returned to the airport, but not before he filled a cookie bag. thankfully I keep them handy, and its on the passenger briefing where to find them. I was going to post a video from the flight, but decided I'll post the next flight we do together....with no hurling :)
I've been really lucky (knocking on wood) - no barfers yet!
Can't wait to see you in competition! Should be some great videos to come from that journey.
Fun switch in action. Thanks for sharing your experience.
Love the Content, love the channel I’ve been watching for year, However, please keep those chops sharp!!! It’s a must
Thanks James!
Definitely have something light to eat (I usually have a couple of low sugar ginger cookies) and be hydrated before any flight. It's really hard to convince people of this. As a pilot you absolutely must let your pax know what you are going to do, especially which way you are going to make the turn. Give them time to register the info and start with gentle manoeuvres, don't snap into it, if they haven't been up before! After each one give their ears and eyes time to settle. Remember, you hold their life in your hands and they know this! They need to gain confidence not be made afraid. Steadily build up their tolerance and watch them for signs of nausea or anxiety and Back Off! When I was first learning I just about tolerated turbulence if I was at the controls but for periods when my instructor was in control I would start to feel queasy, just like when driving/being driven. Last week I flew in pretty sporting winds chucking us around on an 'interesting' climbout but it didn't bother me at all - a combo of getting used to it, being more confident, and being prepared, none of which a nervous passenger can have.
Never forget the sick bag! ;)
It's the truth!
Pretty awesome old school EP. Pure FlightChops content, still loving the Garmin system you have, been loving trying it out myself in Fs2020.
Glad you enjoy it!
This reminds me of that flight you did with your friend who had a fear of flying (8 years ago) and you accidently picked a rough air day. She was a trooper though. Need to get her back for an RV14 flight!!
Haha - yeah - the energy on board was a bit better with Chris than it was with MJ :P
*not a pilot*
I was able to do an aerobatic flight in Las Vegas at Sky Combat Ace in the Extra 330 mid-December 2022. It was such an amazing experience! They coach you through several maneuvers and give you plenty of stick time. I went up with the owner "TEX" and he did a fantastic job keeping my focus on other things rather than my onsetting motion sickness. I do not do well with anything that spins, but, by keeping my mind occupied with flying and conversation, I was able to make it through the program without tossing my cookies (just barely). I highly recommend it for anyone considering!
Great video. Thank you
Glad you liked it!
if you filmed this week I happen to go on flight tracker and seen you flying. I live in Brantford you were a little too far north of where I am so I didn't get a chance to see the plane.
Right on - the flight was Monday Jan 16th
@@FlightChops that is awesome would love to get a chance to see the plane sometime. looks like you were shooting some approaches into Brantford.
Great videos. Got me excited about commuting for work in an IFR capable aircraft I can go upside in on my way home!
Really want to try some aerobatic lessons sometime. It's on the bucket list!
It's never too late :)
Best looking RV on the planet bro!
Thanks man - but pretty much every airplane that rolls out of the Evoke shop looks that great!
@@FlightChops It's that warbirds yellow scheme. Soo happy for you, after following yr journey for years, that you progressed to getting her! Always a great day when good things happen to good people!
Airsickness is a concern for me; as I've gotten older I've lost some tolerance. Pacing the maneuvers is important and helps a lot. I've been in touch with Luke and will be flying with him sometime this year - possibly as early as April. My spinner backing plate is still rubbing my cowl just a little so I haven't pulled serious G's yet. Might have to check out those Ram mounts for the iPad. Yes: fingerprints and reflections off the screen every time I take my post-flight hobbs/fuel photos. BTW got my CANPASS; working on ICAO flight planning and eAPIS filing. I'll keep you posted when I'm ready to head for the border!
Awesome!
Would love to do this but I can guarantee I would hurl with gusto!
Gotta try - just eat light and bing the sick bag :)
"I know a guy" = f'n awesome!
I took a friend up for his first aero flight last weekend in the Citabria . Apart from talking him through each move, I made sure to ask him after each one how he felt on a scale of 1 to 10. If we got to 7 I was going to stop….people always under-report how they really feel because a) they want to believe they’re doing better than they are; and b) they don’t want to disappoint the pilot by admitting ‘defeat’.
Thankfully I brought home a clean plane and a very happy friend!
So true just happened to me on my discovery flight. I waited too long to say something and got very sick. Didnt puke but definitely didnt enjoy the moment like I wished
@@pollopollo3531 don't give up doing it after just one experience, make sure you go up again! Next time you'll be better prepared to understand how your body is feeling and let the pilot know sooner so you can keep the experience enjoyable!
Post flight, drink quickly ( slam down) a cold can of soft drink, during flight gloves if you left you bags behind.
And keeping your self busy works , the photographers working in flight are fine , the idle passenger were the ones always affected.
Didn't realise you were a car guy as well!
For sure! I've always love manual transmission sports coups - My first car was a 1985 VW Scirocco, then I had a '92 Toyota Celica GTS, 2006 Subaru WRX (that thing was great and really lasted), then a 2018 VW Golf R... Chris and I have always shared that passion.
Ooof, I’m watching the guy get slowly sicker and sicker but not admitting it masking my stomach hurt. The sipping and swallowing. The pride kicks in and you don’t wanna speak up. We’ve been there
He was actually pretty ok honestly. But I was well aware I'd screwed up by not giving him a sick bag just in case.
@@FlightChops glad to hear!
Fantastic as usual. GREAT dialog!
I had my first sick passenger this summer, luckily it was in my Cub with the door open…
Haha - didn't that result in vomit mist?
@@FlightChops Hard right rudder helped, but I didn’t come out unscathed. 😂 I too carry sic-saks now.
2:10 I recognize that turn.
I don’t think you’re acting too much like an instructor. You sound like a guy trying to keep his friend comfortable without putting the “kids’ gloves” on too much. Like when I give commercial rides in the Extra I am usually over the top sensitive to their comfort etc. It doesn’t sound like you’re trying to teach him rather than get him mentally ready to ease his nerves. I actually really like your approach to it. And exactly, everything you’re doing is high altitude when the other guy is in control
Steve, I've been watching your content off and on since about your first American Fsdo visit. I'm glad to see your continued infectous happiness with flight. As much as I want to fly, I just haven't figured out a way to make it feasible, in a way that I'll want to keep at it. Admittedly I'm more interested in the spinny bit on top which certainly doesn't make the process any easier.
My question is How would someone go about searching in their local areas to find an acro-pilot willing to take pax on that kind of bucket list flight?
Glad you’re enjoying the content. Where are you based? Maybe I can help get you connected with some one close that can get you inverted.
@@FlightChops Closest airport is kbuf. I used to border hop quite a bit bc19. If I had time and the winds were right I would watch arrivals on 05 yyz.
Nice intro to aerobatics...
Thanks!
:D No Snap Roll??
Full stick back, Full right rudder and Aileron all same time in an instant snap move (basically as fast as control can move)
Not sure if the RV Can Handle that tho!
Correct that snap rolls are more abuse than I want to put on the airframe.
If no sick bag and in a plane like that i would be respectful if i was going to be sick i would either take off my shirt and do it in there or much worse.
just pull shirt forward and vomit into clothes/on chest and clean it up after, hek i would fill my shoes before i vomited on his plane lol
Haha - yeah - it's the pilot's fault if the Px isn't briefed and set up with easy access to a sick bag. That was on me... I'm glad Chris kept it together.
STEVE, your buddy is totally overthinking instead of enjoying the thrill !
He definitely overthunk it... but he also enjoyed it - that's Chris! :)
We're you not close to stalling at the top of the Barrel roll?
No. Please review the previous episode training with Luke to address how angle of attack and stall are related.
Only blew chunks on boats, never on a plane, but it was close...
I forgot the sick bag - 🤦🏼♂️
Bob Hoover had air sickness at one time.
Yes he had to spend a lot of time working through it early in his flying - that part of the back story is covered in his book "Forever flying" 👍
The best way to introduce people to aerobatics is to let them fly the maneuvers. After you show them, It keeps them distracted from what they feel.
He didn't want to fly any maneuvers, but I did have him following through on the controls with me
getting tired of UA-cam, f-bombs are just part of the common casual language nowadays, it's not like you're insulting anyone directly.
I make content that a lot of people watch with their kids.
Are you honestly offended that I used Looney Tunes SFX to keep it family friendly by bleeping a dozen F-Bombs?
ya -way too much talking . you got him stressed early and never let of made it a relaxed thing. Next time just talk the basics and listen to the passenger .. and hear /see t eh clues for time to stop. and fly level..Fly the maneuvers to mitigate the g and forget the precision I usually do a slow roll and cuban 8 and knock it off for a first flight. shut off al the beeping and caution crap and keep the cockpit as quiet as able. I woulda puked . May be get some dual to do dual acro .Very bad experience .
Feedback appreciated, but you're seeing ~8 mins cut from from a 1.1 hour flight. There was a lot of chill / acclimatization time while I was quietly working on IFR / avionics management stuff, and he was hand flying straight and level / gentle turns.
Really wished my stomach and heart were on the same page with aviation. Think the only cure is to fly as frequently as possible...for me anyway. Great content as always, Steve.
how do you mean?
I feel you man. I went up with a well known aerobatic competitor in an extra 330. 30min in I got sick. I hate myself for that. I have to try again
If you managed to ride for 30 mins with a competition level acro pilot, and were not in control or taking breaks between manoeuvres, you're a rock star - even seasoned pilots would have a hard time riding along for that much acro with out being in control.
@@FlightChops Ha I wish. It was three aileron rolls, two loops, and one left hand turn from 4500 to 1400. It was more of a watch me and try scenario.
David Windmiller is great guy to learn from though.
Love your content!
Hey Steve, I really like those track photos of the Elise... But of course I would, I shot them. 😁(I'll let you figure out who I am 😉) I've been watching your channel ever since you told me about it at Chris' wedding. What a treat seeing two people that I know personally in a UA-cam video. Great stuff man! 👍
Barry! Right on buddy!
I once read an article with Patty Wagstaff. I was a fresh PPL at the time. She told a story of seeing a passenger excited but nervous, who was about to go flying with their friend who had a fresh license. The passenger came back and she asked them how it was. "Amazong but I will never do it again". The pilot had taken their friend up and scared the crap out of them and made them sick. She said it made her think. Your non Pilot friends are impressed you know what the switches do and that you can even taxi. You don't need to show off. Tailor the ride to their comfort levels. Some just wanted straight and level, others the whole deal. My goal was to have them enjoy it, not throw up!
Agreed with all of this
When I started flight training, I had nerves and air nausea. Never threw up, thank God, but I was uncomfortable. What cured that for me was flight simulator in VR. It took several weeks, but I acclimated and do not have the nerves anymore.
Yes - I have heard VR can be helpful to condition yourself to be more resistant to motion sickness.
Great video, Steve. It's always great to see new folks get into the world of aerobatics...especially in Ontario! What I've found what helps with PAX acro-sickness (that's what I call it haha), is keeping the turns and rolls to a minimum if it's their first time, or at minimum start with some manoeuvres along the vertical plane first (ex loop) and work up to the rolls. You would think more G (3-4G) would make things worse, but that's not as much of a factor compared to rolling. Flying along a consistent plane and axis, keeps the head and body tracking in a more linear direction provided things are coordinated. Where as a typical ballistic roll, induces a pitch up (vertical) and then a full deflection roll so the inner ear has to deal with a lot of proprioceptive and vestibular "stress" that one is not used to which leads to "acro-sickness". I've found that starting off with rolling figures first, almost always induces motion sickness to those that are prone to it...if not right away, eventually in the flight. Also keep in mind, noise and smells in the cockpit can also kick-off queasiness..it's usually a combination of factors to contribute. Some people can cope with a lot of acro upfront, my wife is an example of that. I also tell PAX to eat a bland meal beforehand (1-2hrs prior), stay hydrated and try to get them to feel excited and less anxious about the experience, which you did. I thought you did a great job explaining everything and that goes a long way in managing PAX anxiety, and letting them fly is also a great technique to mitigate sickness. BTW, I make myself sick during the first few flights of the season so even seasoned acro pilots still get sick even if they don't admit it haha I make sure my PAX know that so they don't feel like they have be a hero to fight it...it's okay to feel sick and perfectly normal if you're new to the experience. Anyways, awesome content brother and looking forward to seeing you compete this year!
I second all of that and will add. In my experience most people that get sick on a sightseeing flight, not just acro, have fast food before showing up accompanied by Coke or Pepsi, and it's a hot day. Also, Bob Hoover had nausea when he started flying, so it can be overcome. Great vid, Steve!
@@superpilotish Totally agree!
Great insights here! I had thought the bigger motion sickness risk (or just over all anxiety risk) was higher G as opposed to rolling, but you've made great points here!
And yes - Bob Hoover's book is my favorite aviation book - the worked so hard to get over his inclination for motion sickness.
Very cool. Gutted he didn't do the spin! I'm surprised you are allowed to teach without being an instructor, but I think north america is different in many ways. I would advise you not to let passengers anywhere near the controls the first time they experience a manoeuvre. You'll notice he had two hands on the stick at one point, if he freaks out you are going to have a fight on your hands. You are getting better at talking while flying: We'll make an instructor out of you yet ;)
Thanks Bruce.
And yeah, "instructing" is not allowed unless you're an instructor... but explaining what is going on to a passenger (that is not logging it obviously) and allowing them to fly when the PIC deems it is safe, is fine.
That said, 100% if it wasn't Chris who I've known for 25 years and seen him do things with race cars that I'd never dare try, I'd not have let him have hands on the controls during acro.
This is my internal conflict with aerobatics. I'd pay money to do that, right up until the moment I'm prepared to pay twice as much to get out of it!
I kept thinking the *bleeps* were alarms in the cockpit, and you weren't responding to them.
Haha - I got the Garmin Looney Tunes audio package :P
These sound effects are a treasure.
🤡
Wow, I didn’t know you could request flight following for maneuvers. Very cool!
Yes you can!
ATC generally appreciates it, so they don't have to give other traffic the advisory about the randomly maneuvering target they are not talking to :)
@@FlightChops Nice. Going to give it a shot next time I'm out practicing maneuvers.
Coo yeah - just try to pick an area / altitude block that is likely not in their way, but they'd be able to see you on radar... and when you make the request, be clear and concise to increase the odds they give it to you :).
(and don't blurt out the whole request on the initial cold call - make sure you've got their full attention first)
@@FlightChops will do! Was going to fly today but with the current ceiling of 500, guess I’ll try for next weekend.
Super Awesome! Good reminder to always have a bag and preflight talk with pax!
We had the preflight talk... I just forgot to actually give him the bag before we strapped in. 😬
When are we going to see the paint video?
It's a big edit that is coming later in the summer or fall.
We got some great stuff of the whole paint shop process, and I'll be sharing the flights to/from Alabama as well.
Truly enjoy your videos! Thanks for taking us along for the ride!
Thanks for watching!
How do you get a score on your approach? Is that an app ?
CloudAhoy. Steve turned me onto it and I'm getting gradually proficient with using it.
Yes - CloudAhoy is an amazing debriefing tool - google it and/or details are in the video description.
I can’t get enough of your videos! Great product value and content. My only suggestion would be to mix the AoA tone a bit quieter please, as it’s really loud and piercing! Looking forward to the next
Thanks!
And I know man... iIn the edit I have it mixed down like 12 dB with key frames painstakingly placed - the challenge is when it over laps intercom audio. There might be a way to reduce the level on the actual settings of the avionics... but that might not be possible due to it being a safety thing...
Loved this. I'd so be that F-bomb guy. 😅
Wow this is my first time seeing the rv14 with paint. It looks amazing!
My first rule: don’t even talk about nausea in any way before the flight. Of course keep a sick bag ready, but don’t tell them about it or show it to them. The less they think about it, the less likely it will happen.
Nausea is one of those things that people can be reluctant to talk about. Sometime in the cockpit you can feel like you need to tough it out instead of being honest and that just makes it miserable. I battled nausea for my early flight training and have had to battle again, even worse this time, after a long break from flying. Here's the two things I've found to be helpful. 1: Speak up. Tell your instructor what you're feeling and don't push yourself over the edge. Get on the ground and let yourself recover. 2: ReliefBand was a life saver for me. It sounds like hocus pocus, but I wouldn't have finished my training without it!
Thanks for sharing your motion sickness prevention insights
I have to admit, I couldn't watch. 8( I'm not an aerobatics guy either, and I don't have a sick bag handy. LOL On the other hand, I've been a guitar player for 50+ years, (with a small shop in my house), and I feel right at home in the studio! LOL 8) --gary
Haha - thanks Gary
5:18 Yawning is one of the early signs of nausea/vasovagal response.
Interesting, I didn't know that.
Anyway - he made it through a 1.1 hour flight that ended with ~10 mins of Acro :)
An aerobatics instructor, before my first lesson, urged me to take a calcium-based antacid tablet or two before flying and to take one during the flight if necessary. After doing multiple spins, loops, and rolls, I found this advice truly helped, plus stopping occasionally for "straight and level" to allow the vestibular system time to recover a bit. Thanks for these thoughtfully made videos.
Love this. I too have the mouth of a sailor especially nervous!
excuse the spelling give him a Lum sha Voc that will really set his day
Haha. no. This airplane doesn't do tumbles... and it would also be pretty hard on a first time acro Px :P
The waffle house has a new host
Wuh?
For passengers that have motion sickness you might look into a product called Reliefband. It works for 90% of people on easing nausea immediately. Good luck!
I think my friend Katie is using that with some success.