Evolved Psychology Vs The Modern World - David & Douglas Kenrick
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- Опубліковано 19 чер 2024
- David Lundberg Kenrick is the Psychology Program Manager at Arizona State University and Douglas Kenrick is a Professor of psychology at Arizona State University.
Our brains were designed to exist in a very different environment to the one they find themselves in. Managing modern problems with stone-age operating systems causes us to act in strange, suboptimal, silly ways. Which is why it's so important to understand how our minds developed.
Expect to learn just how violent humans were ancestrally, why more people die of obesity than starvation in 2022, whether dominance or prestige is more important at getting ahead, whether ancient humans felt love the same way we do now, why human females go through menopause, the relationship between dominance and attraction and much more...
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#evolutionarypsychology #mindset #behaviour
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00:00 Intro
03:03 The New Pyramid of Human Motives
12:24 Why Society’s Issues are Becoming More Complex
17:25 Ancient Minds with Modern Problems
30:44 Why We Feel More Unsafe Today
35:51 How the Human Psyche Will Change in the Future
42:29 Purpose of Friendship
52:29 Differences Between Ancient & Modern ‘Love’
1:04:26 Why Females Go Through Menopause
1:11:33 The Desire to Protect Family
1:19:43 Why We Should Be Kind
1:24:14 Where to Find David & Douglas
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Hello you lovely hairless apes. Here’s the timestamps:
00:00 Intro
03:03 The New Pyramid of Human Motives
12:24 Why Society’s Issues are Becoming More Complex
17:25 Ancient Minds with Modern Problems
30:44 Why We Feel More Unsafe Today
35:51 How the Human Psyche Will Change in the Future
42:29 Purpose of Friendship
52:29 Differences Between Ancient & Modern ‘Love’
1:04:26 Why Females Go Through Menopause
1:11:33 The Desire to Protect Family
1:19:43 Why We Should Be Kind
1:24:14 Where to Find David & Douglas
Thats the point of school, social engineering and applied behaviourism. To divert from normal, nature or evolution.
Maybe I'm "just" extra depressed and therefor extra negative and critical right now, but reading comments here, gave me the impression, that the level of "I'm pretty fookin' smart, and know for sure, what I'm talking about" is higher here, than fx in a Jordan Peterson comment section.
We are primates, but we are not apes; and the reason is the hip design on us is that of a primate, but not an ape at all.
Also, another major difference is the placement of the spine's attachment to the skull; in primates, specifically hominid primates, it attaches at the bottom of the skull, whereas in apes it attaches at the back of the skull; a totally different design, anatomically-speaking.
I literally am covered in body hair if I don't shave.. like an ape 🤣
Life has gotten so much better for me since I stopped watching the news and binging social media. I feel healthier and happier . In some ways, the old ways are still best.
I quit social media years ago but I still have this and most of what I do is watch news and I would like to quit this too. I don't miss FB(never had the others). Definitely feels better not using that.
In the 80’s and 90’s the news used to offer opposing views - since this stopped, I stopped. We need to hunt for the truth these days.
Social media is cancer. I never had Twitter and don’t miss it. I do have FB but pretty much stopped posting to it years ago. I will react to other peoples’ posts though.
Social media creates fake realities that cause people to react to it in ways that make no sense to anyone not paying attention. It is generally an alternative reality.
What is “social” media🤓
I find it difficult to believe that most people are finding meaning and purpose in their jobs.
Also, most of my screen time is spent either listening to podcast or reading (books, not tweets), it's arguably the most productive part of my day.
A lot of people don’t find much meaning in their jobs at all. I think our goal is to try to figure out how to help as many people as possible to figure out how to find careers where they can find meaning.
@@DaveLK2000 Sounds nice... but I think we live in a world where most of the work left to be done is low end labor, menial task, paper pushing, etc. Most people will never be able to have a meaningful career. Scrubbing floors at an airport won't bring you any closer to becoming a pilot. (Is being a pilot super meaningful? What is a meaningful career anyway? Like with examples, a society can only support so many doctors, lawyers, philosophers) College is becoming more expensive and less valuable. People are dropping out of grade schools at an extremely high rate. I really have a hard time seeing meaningful careers (whatever they are) anywhere on the horizon. I don't really even know if the current system can survive all the damage that has already been done by institutional capture and lockdowns.
@@chills2479 I would define a meaningful career as one where you help other people achieve one or more of their fundamental motives.
So if you’re scrubbing floors, I think it would be more meaningful to scrub floors at a hospital, rather than a cigarette factory.
And while college is very expensive these days, there are more free alternatives than ever. You can go online and learn AI, programing, marketing, and fundamentals of business, fundamentals of construction, etc. for free.
And if you pick a field where you help people fulfill fundamental motives, there’s going to be more demand than if you pick a field where you’re making things people don’t actually need.
@@chills2479 "Listen kid! Ya come in every week, ya scrub the floor clean... nah slacking around here ya see. Maybe then I show ya how to fix a tire on one of them Boeings there see... Maybe ya figure out how to start one of those damn things, Friday afternoon you mov' em around the lot a bit eh...
... In 10 years time ya'll be flying them things cross country like meh I'm sure... and in 30 years ya'll own a company with 30 of them planes just like my Pa."
@@mattmattmatt131313 "Sorry sir, I was offered a piloting gig by some nice people I meet on the internet, they promised to teach me and I wouldn't even have to scrub no floors... it does involve moving to someplace called Afghanistan though. I've never heard of it but it sounds mighty promising."
On evolutionary mismatch: "Our ancestors were not surrounded by strangers unless they were about to die."
That's a gem. That's worth thinking about.
The word 'love' is an emotive weaponised word of the modern era very useful for women & their security. It's like a full stop at the end of a sentence.
You could argue that love is rooted in religion. In a society that lost its faith, love is a institution rather than a emotion. It’s been bred out of women and given up on by men.
"Civilized to Death: The Price of Progress" by Christopher Ryan is a great read if you're interested in these themes.
Highly recommend.
civilized means domesticated to death. and we are suffering that fate.
I’ve been having nightmares about the mouse utopia experiment. I’m going to check the book out. Dr.Calhoun gets a lot of criticism but the Disney lemming myth and how the media has acted in recent years has been fun to watch. 40% increase in “all cause” deaths in 2021. Something is happening.
I've known 4 people who were murdered
@@ericmay7722 That’s sad and very unfortunate.
Ladies like a man they can brag about to their social group. It raises their status within the group.
"Then why is it we feel so unsafe day to day...if the world is objectively safer than ever before" Why...because as my boss at a newspaper used to say GOOD news doesn't sell...BAD news sells. Or another expression..."If it bleeds...it leads". We've removed so many of the world's problems over the last 100 years+...and now there is a bit of a vacuum so we create new ones.
Who else defines wellbeing as just reading a good book in shade, sipping coffee?
If you can do it without anxiety I agree.
My ex wife? Ways to erase...
@@antpoo if reading in nature in the modern world gives you anxiety, you will likely not be a successful individual and will rely on others to meet your basic needs. Seek help.
@@jessed6151 🤯?
A lot of my time is spent reading books by the beach I’m referring to those who have been possessed by a modern world obsessed with ‘doing’.
A tip, back off with that magnifying glass and don’t try to read 500x magnification between lines 😆
Simply brilliant. "One man's trash is another man's treasure, one man's pain is another man's pleasure, one man's work is another man's leisure..." Can't remember who said that.
I remember it was soapbxprod who said that
These guys are really knowledgeable and are good at letting eachother speak.
Bring more evolutionary psychologysts!!
Yea man, I love EvoPsych and Chris seems to love it too.
It is hard to describe to civilians the bonds you make with people when in military service. I can see how the evolutionary mechanisms behind this bond applies selective pressures even today. I have close civilian friends. But there is something very, very different (not "better" - but "different") with friends I've been in combat with.
You can "hate" or maybe even "despise" someone... but still trust them with your life.
We can’t adapt as fast as tech develops we need to take that into account
I remember reading a quote from an evolutionary psych book that said "Our brains evolved to deal with the conditions during Pleistocene, they did not evolve to deal with computer screens and being bound in a cubicle"
Well in some ways we can adapt as fast as technology. I mean we operate and can obviously create it (some highly intelligent people). We work with It every day of our life and seamlessly adapt to new tech.
But the deeper part of us doesn't adapt, the evolutionary part of us is still stuck in fire and mud huts basically. The real issue with technology is the people that create it can use it to trick our brains. It becomes a simple dopamine switch, it's incredible how well all the social media giants can tweak their product to the individual. The social dilemma goes into that quite a bit.
Even though we as individuals have adapted to technology our brains, basically our underlying operating system that runs in the background hasn't.
@@beeman4266 yeah splitting hairs you are unpacking the meani g of what I said in a soundbyte. While there is a dopamine, amígdala and evolution etc… we remain essentially smart animals with a bunch of dangerous tech.
I attempted suicide twice, realizing the second time thr desire was a deeper need to take big risks. Once I started exploring dangerous places (philosophical conversations in public and dark alleys) the desire went away and was replaced with a high unlike anything I can describe. I desired more contest and more action. I daily sate this with games now, but still occasionally seek wild stress.
It probably has to do with your birth. Ask your mom how traumatic was your birth?
Hello fellow thrill seeker! Go get wild for real Nature is the best healer… maybe see you you bungee jumping in some exotic place!! Nothing gets the cobwebs out of your head like a natural rush of adrenaline!
Life is difficult- especially for the sensitive.
What helps me, is trying to empower others to realize their innate capacities.
Hugs from Portugal.
Just watch the monkeypox
Look at the seek discomfort channel
Great episode. Definitely reinforce that ‘A River Runs Through It’ is amazing. The film is great too.
I’m 2 mins in, what is mentioned about that film in this podcast? Spoil it for me lol
@@larryleisure9624 I’ll definitely spoil it if I tell you hahaha 🤣. Enjoy the episode bro 🙏🏼
7:05 Could we agree that "asking people" is not research?! People will answer anything but hardly ever know what is going on.
One of the most interesting conversation I have listened to for a long time.
Keeping our lives balanced is necessary
Hands down my favorite episode. Great dynamic with the brothers and fascinating content.
This is officially one of my favorite channels.
Excellent, wide-ranging, thought-provoking discussion.
The Barcelona story is a perfect example of why the West is screwed. We've imported mass *&diverse people&* & decided there's absolutely nothing we can do about it.
Think about this seriously: human beings are an old stone age or wood age species in terms of biology, but are dealing with space-age technology in terms of society; so no wonder we deal with so much anxiety today: our systems of function aren't designed to respond to the stressors we deal with on a day-to-day basis.
I think our ways of thinking haven’t evolved.
@@kundaigotore992 Maybe at that, but our *technology* has grown by leaps and bounds, especially in the previous 10,000 years, approximately at *most* 1/300th of the time period of modern man's time-period, and quite likely far less than that as far as how long human beings have been around at that.
@@chissstardestroyer we still get controlled by fear. It’s why the media will always fear monger because we are controlled by it.
@@kundaigotore992 Yes, same with any other animal; which we are biologically at that. Take the "dog whisperer" and his studies in treating canine psychology and psychological problems, he says that if you treat your pet dog as a human being, it will drive the poor animal *nuts*... the point is that if you put anything into an environment that makes no sense to it, and it will drive the poor creature nuts.
Take Jordan Peterson; he famously says that why people have things go wrong with them in the head is no mystery to him at all; what is a mystery to him is why people don't have everything go wrong with them *at the same exact moment*, given what's been going on in human society and human beings.
Plus, mankind is a peculiar mix, in the basic nature of man, between animal and angel frankly- so that only *increases* the bizarre mix of problems that can possibly go wrong with human beings- especially if said human is nihilistic in his views.
@@kundaigotore992 Our ways of thinking have certainly evolved, though our brain stem and its tendency to silently influence and/or override our frontal cortex's reasoning faculties remains mainly-unchanged since ancestral times.
wow, so early I can maybe get Chris's attention to tell him he's doing God's work with this podcast. YOU GO CHRIS
I agree with the thumbnail: modern behaviour is not normal.
I mean throw a bunch of enlightened apes into a world with magical levels of tech and prosperity, what do you think will happen?
@@scholaroftheworldalternatehist true. people don't seem to understand this. enlightened to death.
@@scholaroftheworldalternatehist Does anyone want the last banana?
Im not not totally sure about you yet... but you might just join my list of preferred interviewers. This far, almost everything I've heard from you has been incredibly positive stuff to be putting into the world. Props.
I'm reading the Kenrick and Kenrick book now! I just bought it on sale from Amazon if anyone is interested under $20. Chris posted a link to the book on Amazon in the description. Some of the most frustrating moments of my life make so much sense in light of the framework presented in this book. I can't wait to read more! Thank you so much for having the Kenricks on your show. It was so inspiring to hear them speak about the new pyramid.
Could you break down the general premise into a couple of paragraphs for us?
@@carlwide6594 , yes! Thank you for the request. Kenrick and Kenrick tell stories about a different notable person and connect that story with research that has lead to to the re-design of Maslow's hierarchy of needs. The authors conversationally talk through each of their fundamental motives and the research behind it using evidence from anthropological studies in current hunter-gatherer societies and experimental or survey data in big modern cities. Evolutionary theories like mismatches and the naturalistic fallacy are interwoven throughout to provide lists of handy takeaways at the end of each chapter. I skipped to the end to read a section I was interested in. In this section, both authors analyze their own successes and shortcomings in light of the renovated pyramid and the suggestions presented throughout the book.
It’s nice to hear from Gilbert Gotfried reborn as a scientist.
Ya too kind! I’m embarrassed! Ahm blushing!
Awesome conversation!🤩
Great conversation, good questions.
Thanks Chris, you keep raising the bar with excellent questions and guests💗💗💗💗
This became my favorite UA-cam channel!!!! ☺️
It should be obvious, but creating enemies is not a good survival strategy. But this realization very rarely occurs in humans with immature frontal lobes; they're unable to consider the big picture long-term.
Wow I have been saying all this for the last few years. Modern behavior is not natural
@@justanothernick3984 Yes, but not all natural behavior or ways of life was negative for instance more face to face socialization over social media would be better.
Yes! Just because it's normal (eg chairs, staring at the screen, eating processed food) doesn't mean it's natural. We conflate the two all the time.
"ancient fears and desires, with modern day dangers and opportunities!" Great notion to put forward.
YAY!! THANK YOU! LOVE YOU
Mobiles & feeling scared by a bombardment of bad news has created a fearful society. Young parents are actually scared of leaving their kids in child care facilities.i was at the crossroads with my kids & tech availability.
Great conversation. 😎👍
The answer on “higher motives” was ridiculous. OF COURSE an existential crisis is a luxury. The problem is you’re asking it to an older person who spends too much time worrying about their personal health. 200 years ago that person would already be dead.
You don’t think people who are struggling to survive are also facing an existential crisis? Poor people feel just as much frustration about not having a way to live a meaningful life as rich people.
If I may suggest, IMHO all people at every time of their lives might face an existential crisis- all of us might die at any time, and that weighs upon all of our heads to a greater or lesser degree, day by day. Not comforting at all, but it seems undeniable?
We don’t why we exist and where the universe comes from. That weighs heavy on the mind.
@@DaveLK2000 most poor people in the west are just rats in a cage. They don’t have evolutionarily meaningful challenges for survival.
People replying to your comment perhaps don’t understand what existential crisis means? It is not possible to have one when hungry and searching for food. It is not the fear of death. What is means is that you feel like “life lacks meaning.” A hungry person searching for food has tons of meaning, the meaning for him is “find food to make hunger go away.” The mission to find food IS the meaning. Suicide could be sparked by a severe existential crisis where they is no reason to live. But if the suicidal person was in actual danger, starving, being chased by a lion, he would have no time to realize his life wasn’t worth living. Of course it’s more complex than that because a lot of the lack of meaning comes from being isolated from friends and family or a lack of a sense of internal peace because parents never modeled peacefulness for their offspring to mirror.
1:07:25 I think there's also the fact that our cells degenerate over time, so you have a higher risk of getting defective offspring as you get older. Although there are other species whose degeneration occurs at a much lower pace...
I was hoping they would delve even deeper, on the topic of friendship particularly.
good episode but had alot of potential to be a great one.
When I was became super poor, I gained thirty-five pounds in 2 years because I was eating at the soup kitchen and getting food at the food bank. Almost all of it was white carbs with a little veg and a little protein here and there. At the store, cheap foods are full of starch and sugar. That high sugar diet also makes you hungry, so when you do sit down, you overeat. It was a three mile walk to and from the soup kitchen and the food bank, but that exercise barely made a dent in all the sugar.
Docter who said it best Always try to be nice never fail to be kind
This was a fascinating interview. One point where it was obvious you would have benefited from having a woman in the convo was when you all tried to speculate on why women go for 'local rock stars,' meaning musicians who play locally but aren't rich and famous. You all got it dead wrong.
You're thinking like men. Yes, women do have rational patterns to a lot of mate selection choices, but not all. Musicians are on the stage, getting the attention of all the women in the place and even the other men. We automatically assign value to attention from others. And they are playing music we enjoy, which goes past our thoughts, straight to our emotions. It's like being hypnotized to listen to a great musician play when you're in a live audience.
To then get invited back stage, or have the musician speak to you, call you on the phone and leave you a message playing some of the music you heard at the live show only now just for you, or a drummer walk up to the front of the stage at the end of a performance and hand you one of his drumsticks (all experiences I've had), well if he's the least bit attractive most likely the woman will be at least temporarily interested. This is why musicians tend to have their pick of women... at least in the short run.
I wound up dating so many musicians over the years that finally I decided to reject them without consideration. I don't know why I attract them like flies, because they are absolutely NOT the right kind of man for my longterm interests. I would never want someone who works nights, in places where alcohol is served, has to travel for work for their to be any hope of increased income, and who the odds are against for ever having a stable income in retirement. We definitely don't want to try to have children with them!
But aside from this lack of understanding in the convo, overall some really great food for thought. Thanks so much for this interview.
Chris' question regarding our ability to contemplate the upper levels of Maslow's hierarchy of needs being a function of modern societies ability to meet our lower level needs with relative ease and consistency is spot on. Buy I think it misses something. It assumes that early humans in Hunter gatherer societies lacked security in their basic needs. In some sense I think they were better off with a bit of insecurity. This allowed them to integrate the lower levels with the higher levels intact hierarchy. One's self realization would have been completely aligned with their function (gender role, status etc...) within the group. A major existential challenge facing us in modern society is the disconnect between the work we do to sustain life versus the activities we pursue towards the end of self actualization. It is my belief that if we let go of the competition we are compelled towards with the Musks and Supermodels of the world and find our self actualization, our "best" selves, in the seemingly ordinary and mundane we will no longer be burdened by this dissociation.
Very insightful. I mostly agree. Are you saying that our African HG ancestors had plenty of food and safety from the environment but because they were outside in nature, they were constantly reminded of the potential for death? If so I would agree; that would keep us humble and down to earth and in a more constant state of gratitude perhaps.
@@johnbcampise firstly, thanks for engaging in an online comment. Rare in my experience.
I would first argue that there is no inside or outside of nature. Everything that is real is nature. But, in the colloquial sense of nature meaning plants and animals (that aren't human) I think HG's were more connected with nature. Most animals have lives that are integrated. A lion gets "exercise" without thinking about it. It eats its proper diet without needing a nutritional expert to teach it. Same was true of hunter gatherers. I'm not trying to idealized their life. By no means. It was, most certainly, difficult. But the solutions to their problems and the problems themselves were all integral to their survival, their group identity, culture, ritual, etc...
The burden of individualism and economic surplus that surpasses basic needs is that culture, ritual, survival, mental and physical health are all fragmented. My place in society is liberated. I can attempt to pursue whatever life I can make work. But there is less and less a cohesive social narrative, other than the economy and perhaps politics, into which I necessarily fit. I use the word necessary on purpose because in an existential sense many people know they have a place, but it is not secure. They feel as though it isn't necessary that they are the one doing that thing, whatever it is they do.
In addition, they have homes that are far from where they work. They don't work with their family/tribe, they have to cultivate motivation to stay fit. If you were a hunter gatherer you would have had all of those things: you would labor next to yourkindness, worship with them, live with them, find and catch food, and celebrate the hunt...etc...
So, I think HG life was much more perilous to the body because of the dangers of that life, but had far less mental health issues do to this integrations. Our modern problem is the exact opposite. We suffer very fee physical threats, but, perhaps because of that luxury, we suffer the mental, and social perils instead.
The question is, is it worth it?
@@blackwell2322 : I agree with your reply, well written. By “nature” or more specifically “human nature” I don’t mean Mother Nature, but rather the characteristics inherent to a thing, and specifically, those which are unique to being human. A human can murder his family, but that is not his human nature doing so, but rather his animal nature. For at least 200,000 years in Africa, humans never murdered (at least we have found no evidence of homo Sapian murder until 13,000 BC). When severely sick, injured, or developmentally stunted (or starving, cold, or drunk) human nature is inhibited and animal nature comes out for survival. Human nature is altruistic and cooperative, when stunted, damaged, starving, cold, or drunk, human nature is inhibited and animal nature comes out to display selfishness and violence. Perhaps I’m being a bit pedantic, but it’s an important distinction when deciding how to reduce violent behaviors. If we believe violence is human nature then the only solution would need to attempt to change human biology via gene therapy or perhaps implanting computer chips into the brain. Because that technology isn’t here yet, and as proof that we believe violence is unavoidably human nature, we try to deter violence by using fear of incarceration. Only when we see that a specific environment is needed to foster healthy development of children into healthy and peaceful adults, can we see that the wrong environment is what damages humans into being sub human (animalistic) and violent. Only then can we justify the expense of attempting to get rid of violence by improving the environment in which modern children are developing. For sure a much harder task than just building prisons. But it would actually solve the underlying cause of violence and end war for good (until mean space aliens arrive!).
Fear
Fear sells products...
Such as fear of rejection, then have surgery or cosmetic procedures. Fear of ageing...buy cosmetics. Fear of dying alone. Fear of non- acceptance. So much fear is spread so easily, fear of climate change, fear running out of money, safety and food. Buy security, buy locks, buy guns.....so on and so on.
Be at peace to you one and all. 🇦🇺🇦🇺🇦🇺🇿🇦🇿🇦🇿🇦
So well resumed and written! Thanks for this life reminder
The suicide topic was interesting. My thought was a misinterpreted feeling or sense of abandoning your current life setting, situations, relations maybe. Thats arguing between your reptile brain induces an extremely unsettling " fear" of your current position or your conscious knowledge of needing change produces a subconscious awareness of the life threatening dangers of doing so.
I grew up in Cape Town South Africa very middle-class and I know more than 2 people who were murdered
SA crime is exploding but it's hardly mentioned anywhere.
The most common misinterpretation of 'The Selfish Gene' is that it was about a 'gene for selfishness'. The 'selfish' in the title refers to the evolutionary framing of selfish which is the animal containing the allele acting in ways that promote more copies of itself. It wants itself to be passed on more often to the next generation and will cause behaviours to promote more copies. Genes don't have minds, intentions, emotions. They are molecules that are a product of a long line of natural experiments and responses to the environment and randomness. (For context I have a PhD in behavioural ecology and have read about evolution and evolpsych as a hobby since the early 1990s)
1:00 - its called the power process. People need to feel that they are accomplishing something. That THE big picture of human psychology.
this is why i like listening to actual scientist , than some youtube dating "experts" and love gurus.
I think the firefighter, lawyer, (doctor) thing is more related to the societally attributed status of these jobs.
In many homes the narrative goes „if your son is a lawyer or doctor he made it“
And the firefighter is someone who is looked at, as a hero. A courageous, death defying saviour. Which most of them probably really are.
If you show up and say my husband is a lawyer/doctor/fireman, then without any further context nobody will say that he is uncool.
I think this is a function of social status and it raises the status of most women to be able to say that about her man.
Fantastic.
I guess I'm weird but I never found the starving artist, guitarists etc attractive. My sister married a starving artist type and I never understood it. Interesting the idea of the penny stock... I always thought it was that I hate to be in charge while my sister loves it. We're opposites that way, she's the breadwinner and I'm a housewife; I prefer not to have that kind of pressure of carrying the family financially while she is very comfortable with that. My husband runs a local blue collar business so I guess it would be more like the "hospitality guy" in the example.
I think this also taps into one of the big ideas we wanted to get across in the book - everyone is different!
Theres a reason all great civilizations fall from their metropolitan regions/capitals outward.
Metropolitanism creates an ever building culture where those that "live in the house" are permitted to ever handwave the importance of the foundation.
To the point that they not only loath the foundation, but flat out deny the importance and need of a foundation.
Until chronic neglect of the foundation (of civilization establishment) results in the "house" failing.
Research the term "behavioral sink"
Insert Name Here, so Dunbar's Number.
The Toba volcano exploded 74,000 years ago and it is believed that the number of humans went down to 1,000 to 10,000 fertile couples worldwide. Some have suggested less than that. It provides the opportunity for genetic chance to take effect.
Yeah, Chris. When I was a flight/combat medic in USAF and am MMA instructor, I only made like $60,000 a year. But Maaaaan, the amount of female "attention" I got was insane. Just... insane. I wouldn't even believe it if I didn't have the photos. Not all of it is about income.
01:01:11 Status is higher value than money in attraction. That is because status is social capital.
So when are we going to get the Rory Miller (author of Meditations on Violence) interview?
People may find meaning in a career. Very few people find meaning working a job. Especially for peanuts that don’t cover bills let alone any left over for pleasure or saving.
This channel is interesting 👍👍
Please give us links or at least names of the studies/books and their authors.
Would be really helpful for rational discourse.
The smile on everyone's face when Chris asked about the existential crisis being a privilege was gold ahahahha
Thanks
Existential crisis I believe is caused by a lack of skill. People have lived for generations now, outside of the complex world of natural life and ancestral community. Since each of us no longer knows how to build houses, make clothing, identify and harvest resources from the wild, grow food, tend livestock, hunt, defend ourselves and our family, trade and negociate, communicate respectfully, make and use tools, play music, know our history, the list goes on and on. Of course we feel inadequate, we know so little of what we are evolved to know and therefore dont practice our human skill, become weak and feel lost. On top of that we were sold this whole lifestyle as a manipulation so a few people could benefit. Now add the fact that we dont know any of this has happened and we dont care, and we have no solutions for this to even work on. Could this be it???
Badass episode
Might I suggest you interview Robert Sapolski ("Why Zebras Don't Get Ulcers", "Behave")?
Why not invite philosophers to talk about love, kindness, human motives etc ? And dig a little deeper.
So beyond ready
What's the intro song played on Spotify?
1:17
You can take more pleasure from doing work than leisure
1:40
We are designed to want to contribute to those around us
23:00
You don't need a lot money to make yourself fat.
36:45
It definitely takes resources to be on alert. Being less nervous would have enough of an evelotionary benefit
The stress of modern day life is probably the biggest contributor to obesity right now. I think if a researcher studied it they would probably find a significant rate of obesity in those with the highest anxiety levels.
@@januarysson5633 pumice stones are the best solution for obesity and anxiety
@@akreation Can you explain further?
@@januarysson5633 scrub hard
@@akreation and eat less. It's a simple formula, more calories in than those that are burned off will cause weight gain. This has been obvious for generations
29:45 Peterson talks about this as a way for [young] men to increase social status and I believe it makes a lot of sense. It explains higher crime rates in low socioeconomic conditions.
I also think the middle ages set the groundwork for the Renaissance, which was a time characterized by an increase in the value of individual passions and creative expression, compared to the collective piety and work ethic of the war torn Middle ages. The increase in wealth and luxury allowed people to explore romantic love and become the objects of each other's desire, as opposed to " goal oriented" relationships and strategic unions that predominatly formed for survival and power acquisition.
@Chris Williamson if you’d like someone to fix guests’ audio, let me know. I’ll do it free! I found this episode difficult to listen to because one of them sounded like they were in a shower cubicle.
Dude your shows are interesting as shit!
Why is this show not on Spotify
Sat playing my guitar, alone, as I watch this. 🤔
you are amazing
Evolutionary psychology describes how we were hunter gatherers before we were farmers… in most hunter gatherer societies a typical group size might be about 180 people. Those people relied on one another for survival. Over the millennia, roles began to form in some of the most successful groups (this a sort of theory). Those groups with unique individuals were useful because they filled unique roles for the group. The caretaker, the warrior, the berserker, the organizer, all of these became important roles in those groups that survived. Each group likely had a elder father figure and an elder mother figure (wisdom). All of these roles and many more can be explained by evolutionary psychology… Varying personalities might be the result of evolution. It was survival as a group. If you caught a deer, after you had your fill, how would you save it? There was no refrigeration…. YOU SAVED IT BY MAKING SURE THAT IT WAS COMPLETELY CONSUMED BY YOUR GROUP… That’s how you survived.
27:30 this behaviour is close to "honesty signaling" (in evolutionary psych. terms). A deer might do this by dancing in front of a predator just because he can. Peacocks tail os a classic example of this.
It (the 'suicidal tendencies')could also signal to other (human)males your willingness to take risks, which can be pro social when the s--t hits the fan in form of a sacrifice for the greater good.(Chris had a similar point ~ 45:30)
Alcohol most likely just blows this behaviour out of proportion in many human males.
Self preservation is also far less prevalent in males than females for obvious reasons (one male + many females -> many children; many males + one female -> one child/9 months)
I bet only 10% of people working for a boss or a big company like theire job.
Chris, at some point you should just be giving your own lectures on evolutionary psychology.
"People who are like... they dont have friends, theyre staying in their room, but... but they're eating, they're surviving."
Regarding suicide. 23:50, don't forget that suicide has been seen as a mortal sin, at least in the Christian world, especially when most of the population was religious. It would be hard to get meaningful statistics on suicide across time, since culture had a strong influence.
The religious taboo is likely meant as a response to stop something fairly common. If so then the question of motivation for suicide still applies. I think the idea of challenging death is absolutely an internal drive for suicide. I have long believed that we are a suicidal species.
My dad did pass away today 58 years ago. He did Gas himself in our garage at home. Then the treatment of cancer and drug relief for pain was minimal. He did not have long to live as his diagnosis of advanced cancer was to late. I don't judge him for taking his life....R.I.P dad 21.8.1964
My nephew at the age of 19 did hang himself after his girlfriend broke up with him. We also found out that he was on Ritalin, my brother has joined a class action group to take the Pharmaceutical Co to count. We can say that not all suicidal reasons are the same. I was just 9yo when dad died....I won't judge people for their life choices....it's their right not mine. 🇦🇺🇦🇺🇦🇺🇿🇦🇿🇦🇿🇦
Chris has murdered lots of vag 🤣
I am Sisyphus on a couch. The gods put me here as an ironic form of punishment.
"Prestige comes from the ability to teach others"
Says the professor.
When is your life fulfilled? I believe that my life is fulfilled. I have two children and a wife I separated from , and now I enjoy such talks about life and have no compulsion to do anything
The time and culture also has so much to do with the difference between Ted and whitey. People were more likely to operate independently from state institutions in the 20s and 30s. As American society had progressed into the 70s and 80s , people have become a lot more dependent and subservient to societal control. Ted was so " randomly " dangerous compared to the " mob" or " mafia" type organizational structure that whitey was a part of. Big differences there culturally.
I've noticed like since I was five years old .
Dave lost me at - one of the things I like about work is, the people I work with and getting to see them.😅😅
I think that means you and your coworkers aren't sharing enough food*. Bring in a box of donuts (or better yet, homemade cookies) tomorrow and see how people respond.
*Unless you already work in the food industry.
@@DaveLK2000 I work in a warehouse with a few insufferable chatter boxes and slackers. They think bringing in doughnuts every once in a while will ingratiate me to look past their garbage work ethic after being co workers for years? No, work is work for a reason, to make money and provide service, not here to make friends, that's what hobbies are for.
@@jessed6151 I don't think they should bring you doughnuts. I think you should bring them doughnuts. You're in "cheater-detection" mode - keeping track of how they aren't doing their share. Chances are, they feel the same way towards you.
Bring doughnuts and start sharing and complimenting people's work, and they will look out for you in return, and start to look up to you. Then you'll all be able to provide better service, which should theoretically make you more money.
3 guys who share no suicide experiences discuss what makes people resort to prefer death then life.. gg
I mean they can read other ppl's stories. Also interact with them.
Why are individuals so depressed, angry, and unhappy in modern world? Because each thinks permanent happiness is the goal. Sustainable happiness is not possible. We all fail at being happy all the time, so we all feel like failures. Moreover, adverts and news show us happy people all the time, and we as failures resent and are angry and depressed by other’s happiness. Life is a mix of challenges, sorrows, suffering, and occasional bliss. Get real. Find a good wife or husband, devote yourself to each other, and have lots of kids.
dude, we can see that you've figured the lighting, but why are you so close to the camera?? it's freaky.. lol.. otherwise - great discussion!
It seems that modern society conflates pleasure with happiness. I’m not sure they are the same thing and sometimes conflict with each other
Seemed to me that you stumped your guests a few times Chris! Good on ya!
59:45 But the setups of these studies are so inducive to short-term thinking and behavior, even if participants are primed for long-term thinking. It would be more ideal to see how things unravel in a relationship if, for example, the woman slowly finds out that the average-looking high status man is dumb or evil or annoying.
I can understand why men tend to appreciate more beauty in women from the biological point of view, but it's so sad that this is so important to them to the point of no having any hope for us women who dedicated our lives to our dreams and now found ourselves alone.... I wish I have known this before :(
Somewhere along the line the west decided that we should stop teaching young people about the differences between the sexes. That we should stop raising men to appreciate and look after women and women to appreciate and look after men. The west gave up on our ancient wisdom and tried to insist that we could redefine ourselves around free love and self expression. Unfortunately that doesn't work, and your comment is one reason why. There are certain realities that a culture should teach it's young people, but we stopped believing in ourselves. We have generations of lost men and women who know far less about each other than they did in years gone by. Instead of understanding and celebrating our differences we live in a world where our relationship has become adversarial and men think women should work more like men and women think men should work more like women. It's very sad and leads only to frustration and resentment. You would have known this before if you had lived in a proper society. Do you know many other women in your position?
@@zeno2501 I didn't grow up hating men or anything like that, I have a wonderful father and amazing brothers. But my mom always told me I needed to have a career so I wouldn't have to depend on any man like many women in her generation had to stayed in unhappy marriages or even violent husbands. So in order to avoid situations like those, I was always encouraged to have my own things, to provide for myself. I come from a catholic background as well so I can't say I'm a feminist who hates men and never had the lustful lifestyle...I can't blame my mother for wanted me to be succesful in life and independent.... Now I'm thinking it would have been better to get a nose job than reading tons of books.... Still, I'm in my 30's and alone, wondering where the good and caring men are....
@@florencia7059 Thank you for the reply. I didn't mean to imply that you hated men. The way you write seems kind and it sounds as if you've had great role models. Perhaps it isn't clear that my comment is on western matchmaking culture more broadly and the cultural approach to the relationship between the sexes. You have alluded to it partly here by mentioning the encouragement from your mother to be independent from men. It's difficult because that is the best advice to give today and I would give the same to my daughter, but I also wonder if for men and women to be completely independent of one another and to need each other only for romance or sex is a mistake that technology is forcing us into making in the modern world. I wonder sometimes whether if being inextricably tied to one another is more conducive to human flourishing despite the difficulties it can bring. After all, we are two parts of the same whole. I wonder if the beauty of the romance and love between the sexes lies in the tension between them. But that tension depends on us being dependent on each other. Otherwise we choose to escape the tension by living independently and fool ourselves into thinking that is the easy option when in reality we are fundamentally social animals. Maybe women should depend on men. Maybe then men would have no choice but to rise to that challenge. Maybe we're discovering now that that dependence is crucial in regulating male behaviour and keeping us civilised and disciplined. Without women who need them, why would men do anything?
@@zeno2501 It's ok, I get it, it's just that nowadays I feel like I have to justify myself everytime because people asume you're an unbearable, lonely, selfish feminist just because you happen to have some strong opinions here and there. And yeah, I agree with everything you said... It's hard, I know my family advised me hoping the best for me, but I would have never thought I'd be struggling so much to find a decent man to live my life with, it is so sad....And now at this age I'm absolutely terrified to live the rest of my life alone....I've never been a model, I'm and average looking woman, but i know that little beuty I have will soon be gone... I think I would have been better off by just workind and not studying in order to have enough money to get surgeries done to my face and body to improve my looks, after all that's all what man care of :/
Well, if you want to play a 'man's game' just go for any man 20+ years older than you. Youth is normally more appealing than beauty to men. Even if there are more beautiful but significantly older women.
Remember though. When men run these studies and talk about dating they're talking about opportunities for sex. Not a woman to have a family with or marry so always take these sorts of podcasts with grain of salt. Men can think past their downstairs brains and the more they're interested in a legacy the more they value a woman smart enough to raise formidable children. There are some very married very unattractive women and there are some very married young/pretty women with learning disabilities.
Who ever would have thought that if you did a job you really liked it would feel less like work.