Evolutionary Psychologist Explains Why Women Fall For “Bad Boys”
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- Опубліковано 17 бер 2022
- Watch the full episode here - • Evolution, Sex & Desir...
Dr. David Buss and I discuss his groundbreaking work in evolutionary psychology. Our conversation forays into human mating practices & strategies, female preferences, dominance hierarchies, (fe)male aggression, emotional regulation & status, the dark triad (narcissism, Machiavellianism, and psychopathy), inherent inequality, and much more.
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I’m an old man now, but when I was young I was always told to be nice to women - to go above and beyond to make them feel valued, cared for, and appreciated. All that brought was a lot of heartbreak. I eventually got married to an “adult infant” (as Jordan would refer to her) and ended up losing about $300k and equal access to my son in the process. I was and continue to be terribly abused, but that doesn’t matter because I’m a man. The lesson learned? Don’t ever be a “nice guy”. Instead, be kind and always focus on becoming the best version of yourself while being considerate of others’ needs (I.e., don’t place the needs of others above your own). Never, ever chase women. Chase your dreams and women will naturally come to you because of your confidence and success. Then the trick becomes how to screen out those who want you for the wrong reasons (and that will be most of them). For you younger guys, once you understand that you have little-to-no inherent value as a man, and that what really matters instead is what you provide, life will make much more sense to you.
glad you diddent do a full 180 well done sir wel done!
I'm immensely grateful for your invaluable nuggets of wisdom sir. Wishing you good health and prosperity. Thank you dear sir.
Well said Scotty
No man has become a man until he can LEARN to say "NO" to his wife, mother, sister, girlfriend, cousin or female "friend."
Sanjosemike (no longer in CA)
Kind and wise, I hope I can relay this to my children.
Schrödinger's feminism: a woman is simultaneously a victim and empowered, until something happens. Then she chooses which state benefits her the most...
Fucking hell, I love this. Thanks for dropping this on us!
This idea could also be adapted toward Victim blamie idea within the Male idea also......I can can see why Dr. Peterson can at times be considered sexist.
Love this guy though.....B7e5S
Both Male and Females need to consider Freud's idea....without a sympathetic idea if your a Male toward feminism then relationships are inherently impossible. B7e5S
Visa Versa.....B7e5S
Slow clap. You win sir.
I remember watching a documentary on the Night Stalker who was a serial killer. He had a ton of women sending him marriage requests and falling for him, this and that. A nurse working in the same prison at that time called them, and I quote "The dumbest bitches I ever met in my life."
Sounds like the women were trauma bonded to the guy.
Based nurse.
@@mirandabrunskill7755 Justifications.
@Medea Cassandra Logos I think It's because of the intentions of just having fun in which bad boys will provide. Sure, they're not good partners, but there are girls who want thrill and fun which obviously isn't the boring, yet sensible person people would usually settle with.
@Medea Cassandra Logos well different people have different definitions of the word "fun". Some people think Netflix and chill is fun, others think running red lights and shooting a gun out of the window is fun. 🤷♂️ People are complex.
Every woman that I have known that was attracted to bad boys has had an unhappy life.
So true 👍👍👍
Yeah but are her Gene's more likely to survive future generations because she mated with a dominant male? Personal happiness is irrelevant to survival and evolution. You know why it hurts so badly to lose someone you love? Because the more painful it is, the harder you will try in the future to prevent it happening again thereby increasing chances of survival. Sadness and despair are evolutionary tools.
Well, they deserved it then.
I married the bad boy and have the best life ever. My husband has turned into the best provider for my family, is a very attentive husband and loving father. There is no universal truth.
@caitlin....honestly, you think your experience is the rule or the exception to the rule?, don't bother responding
I liked how he pointed out the important detail that it's mostly young (and therefore inexperienced) women that fall for the badboys.
This is why older men go for younger girls bc they know they can manipulate them.
@@proudatheist2042 naw alot of that with women who are more mature than an 18y. I've been the 18y with a 40y
@@kristinec212 Men being drawn to pretty and fertile is like women preferring tall and competent: just a fact of life.
It's the young that have all the juice though, so who cares
@@JustineBrownsBookshelf do you consider being attracted to a 13y ok?
I became the nice guy in my marriage. I began to cook, clean and care for our children more than she did. This was on top of me working 50-60 hours a week. Because of this, I let myself go, lost myself and became completely codependent on her for love and attention. Eventually she lost interest in me, cheated and nuked the family. She basically didn't love or respect me for it. It's been bittersweet; I lost my family and the years I invested. However, glad to not be dealing with such a condescending and selfish woman anymore.
I bet women cheat much more than men nowadays...
Shame on her for losing such a caring person.
I feel you bud. More power to you!!
@@pokemonitishere202 Thank you, I appreciate that.
@@redpilllense7125 Sorry to hear that brother. However I have experienced a similar situation. Not quite as severe but I'd like to add that women will always need to be "checked". I myself have let things slide in the past with women and just like your situation they slowly start to resent you for it. With that being said with the next woman make sure you check her on it. If she's not holding her own let her know and don't be afraid to walk away if she refuses to change. They want to know that you're a strong man and the only way to do that is to test you. You pass these tests by not tolerating their BS. She oversteps her boundaries she gets checked, she doesn't change she gets cut off. Simple and effective formula.
Sounds like you caused the issues, why would you do that to yourself? Low esteem?
As an indigenous Egyptian woman who grew up in an isolated area in the deep south of Egypt, I have never seen, met or heard of ONE female around me who tolerated a ''bad boy' let alone fell for him. It's a Western phenomenon among Western women and those who uphold their values. I have been living in the UK for twenty years and it is still a cultural shock for me. Although I have seen similar pattern among affluent Egyptian women in large cities, and Egyptian girls from broken homes or with unavailable fathers.
What type of guys are the women from that area into? What traits are desirable?
I'm curious, I live in an African city with a whole bunch of cultures. The most dominant is Western, but I have South East Asian heritage. These different groups tend to have different preference
This is not true. The "bad boy" in Egyptian culture is simply the loudest, most attractive, most pious ( appearing ) man. It's the same thing in different cultural clothing. Please don't confuse the psychology with the cultural manifestation.
In a culture where strict monogamy is practiced, this type of man will gravitate towards becoming a religious figure, or wealthy, so he can break the rules secretly.
@@timothyblazer1749
Well, in the Eastern world, the marriages are usually arranged.
So it's the Parents who select the husband.
And sex outside marriage is a big no-no.
@@bestdjaf7499 The dominance of arranged marriages is highly exaggerated.
@@timothyblazer1749 You're right about the 'bad boy' appeal going somewhere else, but you're also wrong about what is appealing and why
Girls don't like bad boys because they "break rules"
As a woman that fell for a narcissist I want to say that the only reason I was attracted to this type of person was the reason that I had not been aware of my codependency issues and that I was not used to be treated with respect. Once I overcame those issues there is nothing I find attractive about those ppl anymore.
Still it doesn't matter you're still attracted to bad boys because it's psychologically human nature to not get attracted to clingy people and be attracted to the ones that you feel that you are losing and obviously bad boys always play girls and it puts you in a psychological sense to that person is too good for you so you want to trap that but you can believe whatever you want to believe
@@anastasiasanchez7852 Seems like you know me better than I do. I didn‘t knew I forgot everything I learned. Can‘t see trough their manipulations anymore. And now I think again they are cool and am attracted to that. 😂🙈 serious? Girl, there is nothing that attracts me to bad guys anymore. Confidence is sexy. That’s true. But bad boys (or girls). What’s sexy about them if you love yourself? If you love yourself you should have a feeling of wanting to stay away from them. 😘
@@anastasiasanchez7852 so you are saying there are bad boys and clingy ppl. That’s it. No emotional and mentally ppl on this planet. Girl ….. there is something that needs healing inside of YOU. Not outside of you.
@Wee Ner was this message for me?
Too bad most women would not find this an issue let alone fix it
I once had a friend who had the bad habit of occasionally and unguardedly dropping rarely-heard truth bombs. She once said, "Listen: the qualities that make for a good husband and father are not exciting to date." It was fascinating to overlay that statement with this discussion.
Equally true of women, I think. Who would make for a good mother vs who would be fun for tonight.
@@alexandercamlin8889 true but not to the same extent. “Who would be fun for tonight” might be that adorable Catholic girl who’s never done anything illegal in her life lol.
Translation: she will be settling with you, you will be boring for her, she will dream about more exciting men.
:)
@@fakename3208 Most prople haven't done anything illegal in their life, where do you live? lol
I disagree with your friend. A good father needs to be a leader.
The standards for "bad boys" have fallen greatly to "methhead/drug dealer that does donuts in Wal-Mart parking lots" so don't feel bad for not scoring women with these incredible standards.
Exactly. If for me to get laid in today's world requires me to throw all my morals, then I accept to be rejected and I wouldn't mind not approaching a woman ever again.
Lol, I don’t think methheads are out here slaying poon my guy
@@paulewannacrackr it's a joke
@@paulewannacrackr lmfao, this cracked me up man.
Or you could just be successful financially, have your s*** together, and know how to game women, and you wouldn't be on this comment section complaining about your life.
Im just a 23 yo kid compared to u guys but im amazed of yall for the sharing so no one would get murdered like what ya ve been through
Really appreciate that
Excellent interview! Great host, great guest.
Lift weights, eat clean, save money & find a groom/style that works well on you. A man optimizes his attractiveness by getting his life in order and being physically fit.
Plus nice teeth and shoes
And that's actually real thing what you say than what "evolutionary psychology" prays.
@@clair233 that would go under groom/style.. I'll just add good hygiene for the teeth lol
@@nimrylchee8796 May I suggest church attendance, if that is ok with you, it's possibly the best place to find access to a caring social circle, perhaps even romance, but I wouldn't focus on that, it seems like chasing it makes it elusive. All the best to you.
@@nimrylchee8796 I apologize for my comment above, my raw emotions got the best of me. I don't think nihilism is an acceptable answer for anything at all, with time and dedication good this will eventually come along brother. Wish you happiness
I very much enjoy when Dr Peterson speaks to someone in his own field. He's so good at explaining his wealth of knowledge in simple terms, it's staggering to hear complex psychological matters discussed with an equal mind, while still being relatable. We live in such a blessed time to have access to these discussions.
Yes on all counts. Great point. Thank you
Beautifully put.
He has such a sophisticated way of articulating himself. He wouldn't be able to speak this way if he hadn't been obsessed for decades in the pursuit of truth.
Nice coment bro jajaja fr
@@Noughtgate nah that’s just from reading books
Be nice to those who are nice to you but take no shit from anyone. Respect is a two way communication and is NOT to be compromised.
Being nice can get you walked all over. Being tough will earn you respect and status.
You just need to learn when to use either.
Mature women are far better at differentiating the great guys from the idiots!
Fax
Not that they have as much choice. Reduced beauty, often genetic baggage (another man's kids), etc. They kinda have to go for the stable beta at that point.
Yeah after they've been run thru by the bad boys then they learn their lesson and let the nice guys have the sloppy leftovers
So true!
i stopped being da nice guy, no one gets my respect unless dey earn it
I have pondered why some women seem to be drawn to abusive partners (bad boys)and the one thing that stood out to me is that being abusive can be mistaken for being strong. The abusive partner makes them feel safe on some primal level. If someone has the potential to be violent towards a partner, there is also the potential that they would be violent in protection of their possessions (the female), their property and their children (if any). It's not that being a nice man is not a good thing, it just doesn't feel like a safe thing.
Bad boys have a different definition in woman's dictionary and men's dictionary
For us bas guy is a guy who doesn't provide n protect us n abuses us😠😠
but why a gentleman cannot be a guy capable of displaying healthy protective traits? I see no contradiction. There is whole a lot between a bad boy and shy softie. Because I am a shy softie, I do prefer my partner rather not.
@@agnieszkapiasecka4124 shy doesn't mean the guy is incapable of defending or inflicting damage if situation demands. Shy means he just don't open to everybody because of various reasons.
not all bad boys are abusive
@@k_da_menace23 truth
Hi Dr. Peterson, you might not read this as this will probably get drowned in this sea of comments, but I just wanna share to you that I recently became a fan of yours. I discovered you through youtube shorts. I'm a teenager girl, Muslim, living in a small city in the Philippines. I discovered that you have a book called 12 Rules for Life, so I saved my money despite being jobless😂, ordered your book online and waited patiently for about 10 days. I'm not a bookish person, and your book was the first ever book I've ever purchased in my whole life so far. The excitement that I felt while waiting was comparable to that of a 7 year old waiting for her ultimate birthday gift. I'm currently reading it, and I've been enjoying it so far because I'm learning a lot. Thank you Dr. Peterson, after watching your videos on YT, I've become so much more motivated to pursue the career that I want. I really hope my message reaches you. :') ❤️
Good for you Marshmellow 👍🏻
Such a lovely comment. I'm happy for you
Oh a fellow Muslim on Dr. Peterson's videos, how lovely
Something tells me that you being a teenage girl thinking the way you are and reading great books, means you are going on to great things in this world. Very good.
Happy to see a fellow Filipino here, and I'm really grateful that we teenagers were able to stumble upon and watch Dr. Peterson's videos. I also agree on what's the feeling of reading his book 12 rules for life. I'm also thankful for him somehow his words we able to save me and I feel thankful for him.
From a young age I was attracted to the brooding, bad boy type. I also realized, however, that I had an angry, abusive father. I'm not claiming any deep introspection at 14, but I did know I wanted a secure, loving marriage in my future, and I would need to find a partner who would be the opposite of my father. I continued to have many crushes on badboy types in my adolescent years, but refused to date. I didn't see the probability or value of engaging in that behaviour as a teenager.
I met my now husband at 22. We've been together for almost 10 years. He's the same height as me, and his frame is smaller. Don't get me wrong, physically I find him extremely attractive. But what I love the most is that he has a big brain and a big heart. When he walks into a room, people smile. He's respected by all his coworkers and employers. He listens to people. He loves people. He's honest and owns up to his mistakes.
I'm not dunking on other people who went down a different path than me. But I am grateful I resisted the immediate gratification of passion. Passion simulates an aspect of authentic love, which I eventually found when I met my husband.
Dunk away.
@@tiny8626 Teenagers are known to have poor impulse control. Under developed prefrontal cortex I believe. I believe that is why having a solid moral system is crucial for raising children.
I still don't want to dunk on anyone. Many people I know who made poor choices were smart enough to learn from them. You could also say that I was motivated by fear as a teenager, which I'm not particularly pleased with. It was a stressful and painful time of my life. It did shape me though, which I'm grateful for.
You are a lucky girl.
Gorgeous story.
@@avon8375 That's a one-dimensional take on the whole center of morality of a person you don't even know.
I suppose I don't need to defend my position. But I can say with confidence that I didn't choose to marry my husband because I settled for what I didn't actually want. You assume that I haven't done the hard therapeutic work of working through my past. If, as a teenager, I was able to exhibit a level of self control that enabled me to make a wise choice, I trust my own further developed maturity as an adult woman to stay faithful to my husband.
I hope you don't make extreme snap judgements of others, as you have with me, a habit. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you're having a bad week.
I have listened to alot of Jordan Peterson talking, I am amazed by the thinking around a subject both positive and negative, and how the positive way is beneficial, and how it will affect you and the world at large. The absolute brilliance to explain in depth, showing passion, truth, and why adaptations in truth is beneficial.
A lot of people misunderstand this situation. The one who can walk away is the one who always wins in any relationship. It doesn’t matter how they feel about it, all that matters is they can or could. Always be the guy who could, then she chases you. A bad boy is just a mildly indifferent man, it’s the old version of a man who placed all of his love outside his woman but still cared enough to balance. Like in ages of old, a man saying his love was the sea or his ambition but while still having a wife and a woman. That is what you need to do, find your muse to put your dedication there and don’t give it all to her. Otherwise you end up as a lapdog which is what a nice guy is. A lapdog.
Gaston wasn't only just a narcissist in Beauty and the Beast. He had a lot of other traits that were beneficial. He also had a large portion of the village encouraging his behavior and giving him further ammunition to act the way he was. Most of the women were swooing over him and he had a lot of friends. I understand that he's considered the antagonist of the story but It's not like he was completely delusional of his behavior. A lot of the people seemed to really like him. Even if he was an asshole.
If you want a bully to stop behaving in a certain way, then don't encourage them. Seemed like a lot of people in the story were culpable in making Gaston the way he was.
I don't know if you remember the whole story but he was a complete lunatic specially towards the end when he stabs the beast. Remember he attacked the beast because of his narcissistic injury was triggered when he realised Belle was in love with the beast. Also narcissists are master manipulators as they know how to climb the social hierarchy.
No he was completely delusional, and the people giving him attention were also delusional
I'm glad someone else recognizes that. Very well said.
But part of the story is about that.
A 12yo doesn't let a creepy old lady come in? Make him into a monster.
A man does everything women in his town tell him too? He's the monster.
An in some way, gaston's attraction to beauty is telling.
That's not the most beautiful woman in town, not physically.
But it's the only women not telling him to go kill himself against an accursed beast.
And when it comes to beauty, she doesn't fall for the beast since the start, it's not the wealth either.
For starters it seems beast is just a more harrier gaston.
But then she see's the books, the garden.
And turns out he's not an immature 12yo because a whole town and existence told him to, but because a creepy pedo witch told him and cursed him along with all his loved friends and family.
Think about who's the easier job there, gaston or the beast?
The beast has a healthy support structure that doesn't encourage him into self-destruction.
The beast is knowledgeable instead of completely developmentally stilted.
And to help his all you have to do is prove pedo witch wrong.
In the original story there's not even a gaston, it's just society.
Weirdly enough, disney by trying to make marlon brando the villain they nailed up the point even harder.
Wow you got like every possible detail wrong. I'm amazed.
When I was a 'nice guy' I never had women chase me instead I was the one going to them. It wasn't until I began working on a career through higher education while also working out, essentially bettering myself, that I found women approaching me. It was strange at first but once I realized success and real confidence that you could back up was the true attraction, my life was changed. Be good or even great instead of nice, and don't be a 'bad boy' because that is just a phase for women not something long-term.
You must have a good face. I'm 6'3" 200 lbs 11% bodyfat. My free testosterone is at the 98th percentile. I've never had a women approach nor show interest. I have a masters degree and 2 BS degrees. Women appreciate hard work from an attractive man....not so much from an ugly man. Women highly value the confidence from an attractive man. Not so much from an ugly man. Everything is a pattern or a probability
@@hurlentropy6866 you know everything at last comes down to face structure or physical beauty of the person whom you wanna date
That's why almost all girl teens love BTS.
Be the best man you can be and women will chase, a thing they actually like to do.
@@leftyloose8576 They will chase only when you look sufficiently attractive to them. It starts with the physical. Every variable is connected to it.
A confident attractive male induces a much stronger emotional response from.a women than an ugly confident male....validation and reward is key
@@hurlentropy6866 Kinda same here bro , food bachelor degree 6'1 good job , had been working out for years , and I'm invisible to women , lol all these people are talking bs . And some of my friends , no money , no muscle , short .Gets way more girls , dude is simply more attractive .
Even as a young teenager I could clearly see that the female sex was wired for attraction to bad boys . Of course , this perception flew right in the face of society's and woman general claims . However , what I constantly witnessed was , simply , undeniable . I was completely amazed that others and in particular my peers could not see the obvious contradiction between what society and women claimed and what the actual behaviour was right before our eyes . I wasn't a bad boy in the worst sense but I was highly individualistic , so I guess that I was a rebel by conventional standards . I thought as I wished , spoke as I wished , dressed as I wished , etc. .Though , I was not hostile or disrespectful to others , I always chose my own path . I can't tell you just how many of my male friends were dumped by women because they were either really nice guys or were trying to conform to the image of what a nice guy was that was becoming very popular at the time . They just couldn't understand why they were losing at the dating / relationship game . It caused them a lot of heartache and grief . I kept telling them that it was because they were too nice or trying to be too nice and that for some bizarre reason women were attracted to bad boys .Years later , I heard one comedian who had had the same 'nice guy ' experience in his youth refer to them as his ' James Taylor Years ' . In any event , the whole nice guy thing just wasn't yielding the desired effects that it was supposed to . Back then the only real conclusion I could draw for womens' propensity to be attracted to bad boys was that the bad boys were a device that they employed to establish their own identity separate from that their bestowed upon them by their parents , a genuine sexual curiosity , a general curiosity , a predilection for drama , status in the community of their peers and a sense of protection in a world which could be dangerous at times . It would appear , that women only shake their attraction to bad boys when they have reached their 40s or 50s . Lacking the energy of youth and having had numerous bad experiences with bad boys they seem to begin to accept that they must settle for a more quiet , less exciting but stable life that is far more possible with a nice guy . It won't be thrilling but it will be comfortable .
From a Christian perspective, marriage is based upon the principle of chastity, not fornication or adultery.
Female Virginity and Sexual Chastity for Marriage (Ex. 22:16, Dt. 22:13-21, 28, 29):
The once virgin female partner no longer has a justifiable opportunity to have sex with anyone else as long as her first male sex partner is alive--to do so would commit fornication.
Abandoned (defiled) or divorced females are required to remain single and sexually abstinent.
Divorced males (from their once virgin or chaste widow) are required to remain single and sexually abstinent.
So, Christians have different sexual values and attraction to them is different that that of a non-Christian.
Why tf u wud want to settle down with a 40 50 yr old woman?
@@PhilospherKing did you have to Google how to spell woman? You have a lot to learn.
Very insightful analysis but from experience, this analysis seems very accurate
This is true for married women who cheat with bad boys for a period of time from their 40s to end 40s. Once they reach 50, they settle with their husbands
I know a girl who use to like bad guys when she was a teen. She said that she had an absent dad in her life, so she tried to get that protection from these crazy men that she use to date. She feels like someone was finally protecting her.
Daddy issues
Badboys are more likely to harass her than protect her. Yet women fall for them
She was very self aware
its because they have an attraction floor , they only date up , read the rational male
Bad guys, thug, gangster, mafia.
Even monster. Look at Twillight series, 50 shades of grey, 365 days. Those novels profiting million dollars.
If you think about it, the male leads in those novels have villain trait, and they're only nice to the female leads, and protecting the female leads while against the world.
'Heroes are martyr, they would leave you to save the world, but villains would destroy the world to save you.' I read it from somewhere, I forget, I think it is from a manga/manhwa where the female lead falling in love to the villain.
The most important thing to me that Peterson pushes is that we ignore our instictive biological/psychological imperatives at our peril. There are forces in our culture that are trying to redefine some of those instincts out of existence instead of contextualizing them into civilization. In the process they are pitting our human need to belong against our biological/psychological nature. It's no wonder that depression, addiction, and suicide is running rampant. How else to cope with being at war with one's self? The only ones more or less free of that conflict will be the rebels and antisocial sorts whose instinct is to see the whole thing burned to the ground.
The way our culture "tries to redefine our instincts out of existence" is by recontextualizing certain instinctive impulses as moral character flaws/defects rather than instincts that need civilization grafted over them in the service of mutual utility and benefit.
It's the misplaced moralizing that sets up the inner war resulting in endemic depression, addiction, and suicide or at the other end of the continuum destructive rebellion. And it's the misplaced moralizing that makes self-respect impossible in the face of self-judgment for what are actually just natural instincts and attributes that need intelligent modulation and productive redirection.
This is exactly it. He’s not the first one to bring this forward, but he does so very poetically through his seminars, books and even his art. I also love Gabor Maté’s perspective of the ravages of the disconnection and trauma that result for the “inner war”.
This is it. Absolutely well said
Precisely. Really well put
We can't let them (our urges, instincts, etc) control us either, which has been argued quite consistently for at least the last 2.5 millenia.
Do we ignore our biological/psychological imperatives conscientiously? Are we equipping ourselves and future generations with Emotional Intelligence? How can we contextualize our instincts into civilization when we lack the self awareness that it even needs to be done? We only utilize about 5% of our brain capacity and the rest is subconscious. Becoming conscious of our subconscious patterns and behavior in order to address the issues we face is an arduous task but is like training a muscle. It can be done, building that bridge is going to take collective effort to reach the masses.
I absolutely love how Dr Peterson separates the video into subtopics. This gives us the benefit of optimizing our time by allowing us to match subtopics to maximum interest level.
That's a very verbose way of saying "thanks for providing shorter clips of your longer videos"
@stephencarlsbad 🤯🤯🤯 no way!
That response sounds like Jordan Peterson himself
I love it when I can learn a huge amount of information from just comment section of Jordan's videos. Thanks everyone for their opinion.
Why are you talking like a robot
I love how Jordan Peterson is probably always the smartest in the room but is humble enough to try and learn from other great minds, that's why he's the best.
Wise men learn more from fools, than fools learn from wise men.
If he was so smart,he wouldn't need any guests to talk to,he could cover any topic himself. He just creates an image that he knows everything by talking too much sometimes without much sense
@@katerinasimonelli6957 FACTS. Anybody can acquire knowledge or high level vocabulary..Nothing new under the sun.
@@katerinasimonelli6957 It's a smart move to discuss the said topic with an evolutionary psychologist (EP) because JP knows that he is not an EP and the topic falls within the field of an EP, thus, he needs the perspective of an EP. He dives deep in his discussions and he loves to dissect his topics to get to that basic truth, and anyone who does that, whether he likes it or not, is prone to being misinterpreted that he's trying to create a persona that he is very knowledgeable.
@@katerinasimonelli6957 looks like your mad
I have been realizing and learning these facts of life since I was a child...Jordan said what ever I had in my mind..
Narcissism looks like confidence.
Psychopathy looks like an integrated shadow.
Machiavellianism looks like strategic planning.
*Girls don't want "bad boys", they want useful men*
Oh shit 😳 their love is utilitarian and this is facts.
Best comment!
So, what you are saying is...women prefer useful men...they just can't distinguish useful men from bad boys?
Is that what you are saying?
What do u mean integrated shadow? Like copying and mimicking stuff perfectly?
@@realjcoop182 id say less 'utilitarian' and more 'pragmatic'. I probably should have said 'effective' instead of 'useful'.
1.Would your partner stay with you if you ended up disabled? Or during times of poverty or if you get physically or mentally hurt? Would he/ she work to provide & take care of you?
2.even If not having kids, think of this: would you like your children to Be just like your partner?
3. Now, would you?
Yep. I adore my wife. Wonderful woman ❤
Man. My ex left for another when I buzzed my hair. Couldn’t imagine how fast she woulda gone if I was disabled. Thanks for this perspective
Absolutely to all 3 questions.
Always ignore what a woman says she likes/wants, pay attention to who she dates.
100%
I'm a 45 year old retired nice guy, now finally decided to focus on my career, kids and ageing parents, catching up with old pals, doing something (that gives me pleasure) I didn't do for long because I was too busy making someone else's dream true. It was a tough decision (to set me free), but eventually I did and now I feel I should have done it long ago. It is one life, we must focus on doing the right thing without focusing too much on its consequences.
What girls don't understand is that the "bad boy" persona is a front. Inside is a weak man
Not weak just damaged.
@@luigi298 same thing
True when I was most insecure in myself I tried acting tough 🤣
i think, you're thinking of bullies. bullies and bad boys aren't the same thing. bad boys don't bully anyone, they just don't tolerate other people's crap and pursue their own desire before they consider someone's else's. bad boys are almost never weak inside or out.
@@yanostropicalparadise755 no I know what I meant
Your childhood trauma can turn into sexual attraction. If you're raised by parents who's neglectful you might be attracted to narcissists
@Thirsty Slayer but you weren't safe with dangerous men too. Bad boys are not just physically abusive, they can be cold, cheaters and poor providers. Yes we still want strong and buffed but it has evolved. Kindness can be sexy too if you were raised by a father that is also kind to his wife
@@elypowell6797 define Chad.
@@elypowell6797 so? Stay mad
Excuses.
@@thelegacyofgaming2928 exactly, people need to take some personal fucking responsibility instead of expecting a pity party
Subscribed due to this series with Dr. Buss. Thanks Jordan
Thank you, Jordan for helping me have a deeper understanding of some of my life choices....
Hi ramadhani Kareem
As women age and "get more experience" are they better at selecting mates without the dark triad, or are they less capable of securing them in competition with younger, more attractive women?
I would say the latter unless they are the narcissistic type.
@@georgemavrides3434 this is the point where you tell them off. 👏 where the fuck were you guys when I was actually pour my heart out? No deal. I rather die than live with someone that "matured".
that sir is the real truth.
Exactly. I think David is leaving that out to be nice about it
Narcissists will go for the vulnerable, an older woman could be considered a good target because you can lower her self-esteem over time by constantly reminding her of her age. Younger women can be good targets because of their naivety.
The women grow wiser, and choose more carefully.
When I was 14 I tried to date a blonde beauty I knew at church. I was quite the gentleman. Even opened doors for her. She thought I was weak. At 16 she got pregnant by the town drug dealer who dropped out of high school and was arrested several times. When he heard she was expecting twins he ran to another state. When he heard she miscarried the babies at eight months he returned. It taught me a valuable lesson about women and beauty. I never looked at female beauty ever the same. Its much like a phony facade.
Tbh I think this problem is less about female beauty and more to do with your expectations that were on faulty foundations. What did you presume her beauty meant about her personality?
Women can be beautiful and kind. Beauty isn't a phony facade, it's just a feature. You can't base someone's intentions or personality based on their appearance - that's just unfair to women as a whole.
I'm not saying it was your fault, but your situation sounded a lot like the one in the video. You were 14 (very young) and this girl went for someone who represented the dark triad traits because she was also likely young and impressed by his "dangerous" traits. She mistook your kindness for weakness, probably because you couldn't or didn't also show any prowess. Women really desire that sense of potential power/aggression - they want to see you have it, and that you know how to handle it. It's that fine line they were speaking about in the video.
You were 14. Don't be hard on yourself - just learn from it. Attraction is necessary for attraction (meaning women's beauty has served a purpose, otherwise men wouldn't be drawn to it). But take the time to get to know someone, and don't over invest in them. It's a thing you learn over time. Becoming jaded about women won't serve you - you just have to learn the game a bit better. Don't punish all women for the hurt you had from a poor experience.
@@sammelina12 Dude I’m 56 and been married 27 years. I’m not weak, nor was I then. I was focused. The lesson I learned is that some women are shit magnets and others respect themselves. Little did I know at the time but later I found out at 14 she wasn’t a virgin. I was.
@@map3384 lol sorry I assumed you were younger. Still think my point presides. Also never called you weak, so don’t twist it.
“Some women are shit magnets and others respect themselves”…. Man what a poor argument. Just because a woman has sexual at a young age doesn’t mean she doesn’t respect herself. I can’t even believe I’d still have to have this talk but middle aged men are like this lol. There’s a lot of reasons a female would have sex and it’s just ignorant to say it’s because they don’t have self-respect. You like to feel better than because you were a virgin which I assume is associated to your religious views. That’s fine but isn’t there something in there about thou shall not judge? 🙄😂
@@sammelina12 You’re wrong. Having sex at a young age leads to many psychological problems. That girl from long ago didn’t have a happy life. Going from bad boy to bad boy and being used like trash does bring a person down.
@@map3384 no, I’m not wrong and you’re still ignorant. Correlation is not causation - this is a popular quote in statistics especially related to Psychology. There are a multitude of other variables that would impact her quality of life and life outcomes that do not hinge singularity that she had sex at a young age. Even the fact that she had sex at a young age should make you question her parent’s involvement in her development and her social environment. Having sex is a function that is influenced by other conditions. You can’t take that and apply it to the rest of her life. There are many women who had sex young and still turned out to have a happy life.
There’s correlations, but it’s not a causation.
Maybe she had childhood wounding from unavailable parents or traumatic events. Maybe she had core wounds like “I am unworthy” and felt she needed to chase men to fill that gap. Maybe she relied on things like alcohol because she didn’t have better tools to cope with suffering caused from early events.
You don’t know all. Ignorance is not bliss.
These discussions are so interesting. Makes me wish I studied psychology more in-depth.
It's never too late. We're in the digital age. Lectures online everywhere! God bless xoxo
Psychology is about hope and healing, and strengths and capacities, and respect and understanding. When I read that women are attracted to brutal selfish morons then yes - some may be. But they either come from broken homes or have unavailable fathers.
I find exception only with the conclusion of the motivation behind the person's change in selection strategy as she gets older and "wiser" . Or that there is more to it than that at least. Great discussion, thank you.
Women want fun but also to be safe. It's a fine line.
In order for a guy to be fun he has to take risks and learn from them. Builds character
@@VeritasIncrebresco 😎👍💜
@Despize Perform That's actually true. Women want that, but so do men - in the context of a partner.
Obviously in the general context of life, everyone wants that of course.
What's your definition of fun? Being lawless, my goodness this generation is screwed.
@@leelewis6925 "The law" can change depending on where you live. I may drive over 65mph in one city and get a ticket, but in another city not too far away I can legally drive 75mph and it's totally fine. Be careful when you judge another. Is the purpose to correct them if they're wrong in order to help keep them safe, or to try to control them? Are you sure you're always right and never wrong? These are important self reflections necessary to keep ourselves in check, so that we're not falling victim to the same things we're claiming we're trying to prevent in others.
The interesting thing is, in my experience some of the kindest, most gentile men I've known were extremely capable killers. My Great Grandfather was such a kind man but from some stories I heard about him second hand he killed a lot of men in the Pacific theater of WWII. Many of my leaders through my time in the Marine Corps were the same, extremely kind men but with a history of extreme violence. I've always been confused by the fact that by and large these are not the sort of men who are particularly successful with women, they're basically the polar opposite of "bad boys". They're extremely agreeable, conscientious, and slow to anger but when put in a situation where violence is the only option they're utterly terrifying.
It's more capability of directed violence. One of the nicest men I know was a Marine in Vietnam. He is a very successful lawyer now.
In Vietnam he was a door gunner and on one gun run the were out of ammunition so they did a gun run with him hanging out the side of the helicopter shooting at the NVA with his pistol.
I've seen the citation for the award.
Being capable of controlled violence, extreme or otherwise, is the characteristic of a dangerous man or woman.
@@ddurkof thats a good way to put it, the interesting thing though is in my experience these men are far less successful with women than the classic "bad boy" archetype who are quick to anger and violence but typically weaklings and cowards when confronted by someone stronger than them. It's just something that never made much sense to me.
Generational theory.
Strong men make good times, good times make weak men, weak men make hard times, hard times make strong men.
@@johnathanmandrake7240 I'm sorry but that has very little to do with my comment. The men I'm talking about are without a doubt some of the most capable, strong men I've ever met. It just seems their kindness makes them unattractive to women.
@@death31313 true. The key for both sexes is to comfortable with one's own company and the correct person will come along.
When one's self is lacking we tend to try and fill the void. That can lead us to accept the less than optimal mate.
Respect to David Buss for bringing up World Of Warcraft! ps. Jordan: This is a very important topic to bring up and you fought it well as always. Thanks for informing the world to be more aware of what is happening around them.
"Women would rather be beat to death than bored to death"
Ouch...
No.
@@avapilsen and yet their heart rate goes up when they see a bad boy, while their knees lock together around overtly nice guys..
I found myself wondering why the dynamic of these relationships are not often picked apart.
The narcissist and empathetic partner serve each other. The empath is often a wounded individual who is attempting to find self worth by ‘winning over’ and ‘helping’ the bad boy, when really they should redirect all that love to themselves and healthy relationships.
Everyone makes mistakes. The dark triad reveal themselves when their actions demonstrate no conscience despite their apology and accepting words. “What you do speaks so loudly that I cannot hear what you say…” works both ways.
If you had or have narcissistic parents, you will likely gravitate to the same personality types.
Extremely apt at people pleasing?
(Altruistic surrender; you feel happy and safe when others are. This stems from having to meet your parents psychological need or demand over your own) Do you treat yourself with the same level of care?
No?
There’s your answer. None of us can declare maturity until we value and respect ourselves and others equally.
It’s I’M Possible.
Be the change. You have a finite amount of time in your life. There are nearly 8 billion people. Choose wisely who you exchange energy with.
✌🏼❤️
Stimmt!
Sam Glazier said: "If you had or have narcissistic parents, you will likely gravitate to the same personality types."
That is exactly correct. The WORST thing being raised by parents with personality disorders is that you will become ATTRACTED to exactly those types for long term relationships.
That is the WORSE thing that these parents will leave to you, because you replace them with exactly the kind of people who caused you so much pain in the first place. Mostly it occurs because you ignore the GIFT of growing up. Growing up means you can LEAVE. LEAVING is a gift you deserve. If you select toxic people, you have not "left." You are still there.
Get therapy. Learn about recognizing toxic people. Avoid them like the plague, precisely because that is what they are. Listen to Sam. He's got it right.
Sanjosemike (no longer in CA)
@@sanjosemike3137 thank you 🙏🏼
Samantha 😉
You are right too. Therapy and self awareness, breeds strength to leave. ❤️
The hardest part is not behaving like the narcissist too. This can happen when we become exhausted, resentful and bitter. It happens in our blind spot often. Psychodynamic/ depth work is painful and the most challenging journey to commit to, but totally worth it with the right support.
I now gravitate to the opposite of my ex. I gravitate towards self aware and kind souls. I thank therapy for that.
Most people don't get the opportunity to meet the other 8 billion! Before I married, I dated about 12 women, most of them just once.
Beautiful words
could listen to this kind of conversation for hours, time to go looking for more
Fascinating. Logical and accurate analysis and commentary in my humble opinion. Great video.
I developed a fascination for sociopaths/psychopaths and the eccentric in early adulthood and would spend my free time talking to them and studying them. Then I would grow bored because a lot of them seemed..so limited by the framework they perceive reality with. I let it slip that I became bored with one, and he took tremendous offense; dedicating every opportunity that we’d cross paths to try to bring me down. Unfortunately he wasn’t very good at it. Since then, I’ve crossed paths with bigger and better psychopaths (all men), and each time I would find myself studying their tactics. It’s always very one dimensional despite their subtle methods, and they tend to have nothing to show for. I believe that was part of my journey in integrating my shadow. It’s much easier to come across malevolent people then it is to come across a strong and good person. I’m very grateful I’ve made a friend that is both strong and good.
I believe that it must be very offensive to them realising that they actually fit into very small and very specific box and aren't anything special or extra as they wish others to believe about themselves. Plus recognising their manipulation techniques that are usually similar - ruins their petty agenda and exposes that pitiful little box they operate from.
What was your takeaway from these experiences? Do you have any observations regarding patterns to share?
I ran into a lot of psychopaths back in the past but, yeah, basically they're all the same and boring. I call them the hollow people.
The fuckers live in a cartoon world, where they are the Sun.
@@neilreynolds3858you ran into them or they ran into you? You have wasted your youth on bad boys, and now that you are old, used & thrown, now you want a nice man? 😂
I am so happy Dr. Peterson is raising awareness about the Dark Triad, it needs to be common knowledge. It explains so much with respect to deceit, betrayal, greed, absolute selfishness, the evil we see in humans. Hedonism as well. Everyone should study the Dark Triad, amazing video Dr. Peterson
Maybe study how to not raise dark triad people. I don’t think the behaviour is always innate. There’s some conditioning involved.
I think it's more about physical attraction and looks than behavior. I know plenty of guys who are great looking who are also very nice that have no problems attracting women despite them being super "nice." It's more like bad behavior isn't a turn off for women as long as the guy is good looking. And I would say attractive guys are more prone to developing a cocky, entitled "bad boy" personality due to constant positive reinforcement for looking good.
Nah, I don't think so. I think it's more like looks matter A LOT, but the type of "aura" created by the bad boy is just plain a turn on for women, only even more so if he also happens to be physically attractive as well.
There have been several studies that have complied strong evidence that the majority of women score the same man much higher in how physically attractive that they appear, by simply contorting their face to look more dominant/ menacing, just as one piece of evidence.
On the anecdotal side, I experience finding women far more attractive when they behave confidently, verses when they behave more shyly. That's to say, the same woman will look significantly more attractive to me when she is behaving in a confident manner than when she isn't.
So, I happen to know (from experience) that the same type of phenomena happens to men, regarding their attraction to women.
That's also my view. Attractive guys treat women anyway cos most of the time, they are the ones being hit on. It works dor them with women but does not work for them in life.
It's more true when you come to females. Attractive females can be very rude to a guy they don't like. And they can be of exceptionally terrible character even at their workplaces. As long as they are very attractive, they feel they will always have a better job.
Women are attracted to power. Bad boys have the illusion of power. Some women are easily fooled by that illusion.
@@JamesBrown-wy7xs Tbh, this whole bad boy thing seems like a North American problem. I only got introduced to this idea through American media. Most of the research in this takes place in the States, so the results are skewed by the culture there.
Spot on.
I think the appeal of the 'bad boy' is more the realisation from an early age that the world is a pretty dark, harsh, cruel place, so there's an instinct to be attracted to someone who isn't afraid to fight off potential enemies...It's more of a protective, survival instinct trait, especially if you grow up in a remote, rural place. It's about being attracted to men who have the strength to fight off threats in the wild...
I agree, also can apply to the city. And the forbidden fruit is always more attractive. We want what we’re not suppose to have
Maybe a balance of not a danger to her but dangerous enough to stop other dangers.
@@AR-rn8ok
Exactly 😠😠😠
Men don't understand
I think its more about the biological need for security a woman needs out of the early awareness of her significantly weaker physical body and personality. Woman tend to feel fear way more often than men. Sometimes, it is sound and reasonable, as woman get sexually harassed more often than men, and gain more physical damage in physical fight. And other times are just projected delusions from similar experiences.
Bottom line is that world isn’t necessarily a harsh place for everybody. I for example am a big guy in terms of height and width. I rarely fear anybody or anything, and I have never perceived the world as a harsh place.
I think women prefer these type of “bad” guys, because they internally believe they can provide them with a sense of safety and security.
@@mido222100 so as a woman i can tell you a joke
What I've noticed is that
Whenever i have seen a guy dominate or bully another man
I've been turned on by him
But whenever I've seen him attack any woman it was a huge red flag
It
Love it when a man stands up for me takes care of me and protects me
Feminism is bullshit
I don’t remember ever being attracted to bad boys. I feel like I always appreciated kindness and politeness.
Same
its because they have an attraction floor , they only date up + you're assuming the topic of convo is a high value man,
That’s a blessing. Im hoping to find some one like that. That isn’t attractive to bad boys.
Im a nice guy. But certain not a bad boy. This society is messed up on how relationships are brought up as a show off. Vs human beings that actually give a damn about people in general.
It annoys how some stupidly on why the girls I like are interested in bad boys.
People should be wiser instead of wanting to get hurt from being interested by the bad boys.
I was always attracted to bad boys. My father was a bad boy, abusive mentally, emotionaly, physicaly and sexually. I loved my father, he was the authority figure and I wanted to please him so that he would love me. He also had some very good characteristics that I admired. I did not remember or recognized his bad qualities. He left when I was 11 years old and I was once again sexually abused by family friend. I never felt worthy of a nice guy and could not connect to them. I believed that men would love me if I pleased them. I kept a very innocent child like part of myself throughout my adult hood. I think it kind of becomes like Stockholm syndrome for some women. I could not accept that people are bad and that there are people in the world that really want to hurt you intentionally and yet at the same time was in great fear of them.
Wow. Im so shocked and angry to read that. I sincerely hope you’re doing better now
Many people who had abusive parents tend to get themselves into abusive relationships because it feels like "home" or "familiar".
Don't go for "nice guys" they are manipulative and not pleasant to be around aka toxic, they are not well mentally too.
Go for somewhere in between :)
Go for man who knows its worth, but still capable of love and care.
(Easier said than done, but it would be my advice).
Very Well Stated! Thank you!
@@damnmexican90 Excellent question! Til We make a habit of Authentic Living in Accountability of Self Our LIGHT remains DIM. As parents of young adult children its only fair to them We try Our Best to be Genuine in seeking Truthful Peaceful living. So it seems.
I have to watch this one because I've never understood it, myself. It's like Jeff Foxworthy said, you go for "bad boys" in real life and all you'll get for it is being on an episode of Cops, in a tube-top, yelling out a trailer window, "LOCK HIS ASS UP!"
lmbo
@Scotty B.
You've made excellent points, they really show your wisdom on the matter. I believe that instances, such as your own, e.i., men in general loosing a lot of their societal value to women simply because they feel the need to treat their partner much better than their partner treats them, are only going to increase if we as a sex continue to let the lies told by the inexperienced and ignorant members of society who's influence come almost entirely from the fact that they now are able to access large platforms without the real world standing to deserve to do so affect our perception of real world relations as much as they are starting to. Yes, I understand that it's not just social media that tells these ignorant lies, but we're seeing this transition of what used to be good-intentioned falsities, to exaggerated, extremely harmful, departures from the truths.
I must add that I have very little experience on the matter, and am purely theorizing the cause of this increase in misunderstanding between the sexes. My theories are almost entirely based off of priori, thusly take what I said with a grain of salt, and instead formulate your own perception of this very modern dilemma.
Dr. Buss either games, knows someone who does, or has studied it.
He absolutely nailed it when he talked about the hierarchies within the online gaming communities.
There is a relentless hierarchy in the competitive online gaming scene.
From the Joe weekender, all the way up the the guys in the pro leagues.
Great video, as always Dr. Peterson.
@@user-bs1ky4uy3s Annnnd reported.
One: it is a challenge... chasing something unattainable is a pattern, one that needs to be broken. Second: It is exciting, a feeling we like... but we need to reassociate it with something good for us instead of placing in the hands of one person. Lastly, we want to save them, it's a maternal instinct to jump in and try to be a hero... But to lose yourself in the process is a long process of healing. Once people are whole in themselves, only then can they not chase, not jump, not fear any of it. Just be you, the right people will come around to either be a lesson or a good counterpart.
Rollo has been saying this for years now…
Enabling the bad behaviour is another oft overlooked acpect of this. Many women are obviously excited by unnecessary conflict and drama and will happily generate it. This often begins and ends in single-parent housholds.
This is very evident in certain sub-cultures like it or not.
Most women are notoriously bad at choosing men. Traditionally fathers would vet men as husbands for their daughters, the daughter would approve or decline and marriages were historically more stable. Everything has gone to hell as women have received more freedom and social media dms have given them the false impression that they have more leverage than they actually do.
@@badlaamaurukehu Yup, I've had girlfriends who would start fights "just to keep things exciting" (as one of them described it).
its because they have an attraction floor , they only date up , read the rational male
8:09 "One of the solutions to inequality are diverse games of competence hierarchies" - JP. I think this is such an insane insight. If you look at history, the more restrictive the games of status hierarchies, the less diverse the skillsets that lend an individual to status and power. Because of that restriction only a handful of talents and abilities lead someone to prosperity. In today's world, a broad set of skills can garner economic prosperity. That is definitely a form of progress.
You are very good listener! . I wish everything discussed can be broken down for a layman like me.
Thanks
It's amazing, I've seen most of your shares, I admire and admire you very much, you inspire me a lot in life, you are an extremely wonderful person.
I'm a woman and I'm considerably less agreeable than my female friends. The ethical utility of this is I don't go along with behavior like gossip, which women sometimes use to bond with each other. Obviously this also comes with a high social cost as I've lost several female friends for refusing to put down a fellow female behind her back. I notice that my male friends will tease each other to each other's faces - giving each other the opportunity to spar 'man to man'. Female relationships are very tricky.
Women ARE tricky (or more intelligent)
I have a harder time enjoying their gossips but it is the quickest way they bond 😂
Female colleagues who don't care and are less judgemental have always been harder to find
Just have to say this really bugs me about women. Men can tease, argue, even dislike each other, but if they are up front they get over it or find a diplomatic border. But another man secretly gossiping or "being fake" is considered one of the great sins to men and will burn the bridge not with just the man they are sabotaging, but any man that hears about it. There's a pack loyalty or pecking order, even another "cool" woman can be in that order if she follows the code. Yet women have to game the system a lot, and game each other...its nearly always enemy territory, be it men on the prowl after them or other women trying to destroy them. I can see why some independent women just move to rural areas and live their own life.
@@haleemahzaheer7798 lol women are more intelligent? In a vaccum? nice one
@@vinceplace3667 ok bruh.
Men are more intelligent 🙄
I am a very agreeable woman and I never gossip and would never take down a woman as you describe. I don't understand why you think this quality is due to your being less agreeable than most women
'How not so good looking stand up comedians get laid'... The power of being the center of attention in a large crowd and expressing a level of power. 😁
Yup, same as 70yo rockstars who been 50 years on drugs, and look like shit, still atract 20yo girls who go crazy for them :D
@Paul Smith Yep :D cash also helps a lot
Don't you think women use these opportunities to find better men? I highly doubt they'll stick with unattractive guys for long (if they ste attractive)....they just enjoy the ride and the social opportunities that come with it
Men think about terms like power to feed the ego. You can list exceptions but they will always be rare.
This is nice to see, two equally knowledgeable men (on the topic) having this conversation.
I believe the fine edge for a man Is to be strong and weak with and for his woman at the appropriate times and knowing when those are. Mixing them up leads to confusion followed by rejection
Good talk last night Mr. Peterson!
Soo many people! 10,000 +
Hope for humanity 🙏🏻
We all die. Life is pointless. Hope that realization makes you feel better.
That's why you gotta dance like a maniac while you still can
Sounds like someone who has wasted their life playing video games instead of living
I think especially from a Jungian idea, which I learned from Jordan himself, was that extremely deep in a women's psyche, she's unconsciously trying to find a man who has strong archetypal traits of a Hero. But the problem is being a true Hero archetype in society is only attained by very few, and it's also very difficult to accurately identify somebody who is like that. They already talked about the most notable markers, his status, his ability, his competence, his BALANCE (the wisdom of knowing when to be kind and when to be aggressive), courage, bravery, compassion, empathy. Very difficult to find this and then be able to claim it for yourself. So women mistakenly and unwisely pick the best that they can. That's why these dark triad traits aren't necessarily all bad. But if a true Hero archetypal man were to be in the presence of most women and there was a bad boy also in the room so to speak, I believe almost all the women in that room would be 10x more attracted to the Hero than to the bad boy. Because the Hero can do everything the bad boy can, but more AND better at it too. But he also has the wisdom and heart to act in a humane, admirable, and overall very attractive way (attractive as in romantic but also simply being fun, enjoyable, calming feeling protected, etc...)
WOW. That clicked big-time thanks!
That sounds like a lot of work...
LMAO your comment it's a joke right?
Not true. This hypothesis fails every time in reality.
It's all the banter - theory - which is hot air. We all have to LIVE. This stuff could stop a hen laying an egg. Avoid Romance, it is like Patriotism. It sounds good, but it will get you dead.
I agree, when I was young I think I mistook toxic masculinity as protection and confidence but now as an older woman in her 30s I know better, I know the difference between healthy masculinity and dominance over the toxic narcissistic kind.
Unfortunately, feminist women denounce toxic masculinity as evil, yet they become attracted to men who exude those traits
Toxic masculinity...are you, by any chance, a leftist?
its because they have an attraction floor , they only date up , read the rational male
@@r.a1301 its because they have an attraction floor , they only date up , read the rational male
I listented to this whole video with full attention, but I'm sorry, the fact that he just mentioned World of Warcraft is what I'm gonna remember the most from it xD but of course many other actually useful informations as well.
It happens
Enhancement Shaman 4 life bros 😂
Always DK!😂 No matter the spec
its pre selection and social proof, on top of that its because they have an attraction floor , they only date up , read the rational male. Also, authority and responsibility cannot be separated
Happy that Jordan looks much more livelier! Best wishes Jordan!
As always, it is amazing to listen to hear him think out loud as he bounces ideas off others.
I wasn’t really “attracted” to bad boys. I never had the confidence or self worth to date a real man. I didn’t think I was good enough.
I was immature so I got with immature, selfish men who acted nice at first and then after I was emotionally invested and they figured out that I was too nice and forgiving and could get away with abusing and using me, they treated me badly by manipulating and gaslighting me.
Yep. You chose men based on their looks as opposed to who they are as people. Women always do this.
@@masteryoda1258 no, they weren’t that attractive either . They weren’t ugly either. Just ok
@@masteryoda1258 I didn’t feel good enough or have enough confidence to get with an attractive guy either.
Good looking men like confident women, whether they are pretty or not.
There was a book I read about sex in history, talking about the human brain evolution and drives. One part suggested that the female human subconsciously is seeking to find a suitable mate that can protect and provide, whilst also creating the strongest offspring. The book laid out that humans are animals and just like animals, they seek the survival of the fittest. It even talked about scent, not perfume or deodorant but our natural scent that can literally attract or repel a potential mate, because we have the ability to be attracted scent wise to another who have diverse genetics that compliment our own. The book suggested that the reason females go for the "bad boy" is because a part of our selection process for a mate is seeking the strongest and best survival for our offspring. The "bad boy" is, in part, seen a strong, dominant male, that can defend themselves and therefore defend them, however misguided that may be. In my twenties, when i read this book, it was a revelation understanding why some of my friends were attracted to the bad boy or even abusive male, because a subconscious part of them saw them as strong genetics for offspring potentially. I understood better the drive for the attraction, which seemed to make sense to me.
This kinda proves that this issue will never go away. I've never talked to a woman who actually realises this irl. Evolution will intervene at the subconscious level no matter how hard you try to avoid it.
It's unfair to the nice guys, in terms of sexual availability.....but still a part of nature. Nature will always be unfair in other words.
Then again, beeing a badboy has it's downsides too. I think most young guys praise this status too much, and emphasize short term gratification more than long term gains. Only solution is life experience basically.
Men who abuse women aren't strong, Holly. They're weak.
I don't think I explained myself clearly and you therefore misunderstood. I do not believe a abusive male is dominant, strong etc, it is more that in the book it talked about the subconscious confusing such a male as potential strong offspring. What i took from this idea was a better understanding why someone would stay with an abusive male whilst proclaiming "I love him though" as a reason. My mother taught me " just because you love someone, doesn't mean they are right for you" a saying that stuck with me always.
@@mikejames6664 One person's use and meaning of the word "abuse" is another persons Tuesday.
@@AlicanErenKuzu stopped reading as soon as I read "as a so called bad boy"
Another fantastic discussion! Thank you for the knowledge!
Thank you for this.
There's only one kind of weak man, the one who is cursed to seek respect or love from others everytime to be able to feel alive
Whoever is drawn to criminals, people with broken moral compasses and what else, are for sure one of em themselves. And if they even haven't done anything then it could be a sign they have potential for doing similar negative actions. Controversial perhaps but I believe bad people get attracted to bad people. Not sure why people portray all these people so innocent looking.
Yup I've had women legit be mad at me for not being a drug dealer
anybody has potential for corruption if you corner or press them hard enough. and then ,you have the successful sociopaths or psychopaths, like many police officers, who are wife-beaters.
Jordan, kudos on your last few podcasts! It seems that your topics took a little dip in the recent past (mostly of political nature). It's good to see you taking steps into the unknown in fields where you have a vast amont of knowledge to begin with and please, do a psychological analysis of the New Testament asap, you're a great curator! Lastly, you said you were working on a new book? Can you give us a few details?
Thanks,
Matt ✌️
I think the book is called something with his journey to God
"Really low agreeableness, high consciousness types are really quite interesting because you can trust them because they'll do their duty, but they're very direct and blunt and harsh and that can be very helpful as well because they'll tell you unpleasant truths even if you hurt your feelings, so there's some utility in that."
I just wanted to type this out for other people because he said this so quickly that I couldn't follow when I heard it.
That's bs. its because they have an attraction floor , they only date up , read the rational male
That's interesting because I believe we live in a time with the most diverse amounts of status hierarchy and ways to be respected yet people seem to be at their unhappiest.
its because they have an attraction floor , they only date up , read the rational male
I've always been attracted to the "bad boy" because I feel like if I can make a person who loves no one, love me, I must be special.
Very rarely does a person change their basic nature. A bad boy will still be a bad boy. He just gets better at hiding it and controlling it.....or not.
@@matthewk6731 oh, yes. I have since learned, but my younger self thought I could save the world.
@@FoxcHoney This is a general female mindset (wanting to fix the bad boy, which generally blows up in their face) Generally the moment they manage to "change" the bad boy into a good boy, they lose interest in him. If you're a guy reading this Its a shit test, the things that they want to fix about you are they very things that attracted them to you in the first place.
It sounds to me like you have dark triad tendencies yourself. You chased bad boys because you wanted their validation the most. You didn't do it to help heal them. You did it for personal gain. Girls like you are what I call the 'clingers'. No matter how much I try to get rid of you, you will always come back for more.
Literally every young girl thinks like you
I'm not near as deep and articulate as Jordan Peterson, but I would say I sway to being analytical and thoughtful. I like to know how things work, this includes people. One of the toughest challenges I can speak to is to really know my "self". It's easy to look at others and be objective and subsequently critical of their thoughts and actions. It can be very challenging to self-reflect on things you've said and done. What is/was my motivation? What am I wanting to obtain/attain? I don't know how many times I've been told by people that I think too much. I reply by saying they think too little and I have to balance the scale. Even if you don't consider yourself to be a religious person nor become one, I would still advise people to read the Bible. It is full of many insightful ideas that lead to obtaining wisdom.
So does the noble quran
"Only children, woman, and dogs are loved UNCONDITIONALLY. A man is loved on the CONDITION that he provides something!" - Chris Rock
Great chat, although complicated to follow even for psychologists. My concern is, why you repeatedly refer to the big 5 traits? From neuropsychology or neuroscience we can arguably add more traits (e.g. impulsivity). Why still using the big 5 when personality characterization can be more fine grained?
I think Peterson would argue the other psychological traits are emergent from the basic 5. That is the other traits don't correlate independent of the big 5.
Impulsivity is just high in neurotisim
JP is right on that. 🍻 as someone who dated anti social personality disorder for a short while when I was in my mid 20's... I've learned so much and grew up very fast after that. I don't like to blame society BUT - we need to educate young girls and boys about this. Many people get destroyed by these kind of people with ASPD without knowing what is it.
When I look back - this was a hell of a shadow work for me. but now I feel like a better human being. JP's books and lectures helped as well. I hope men and women (healthy and young) will learn about it so they can give a real fight for this disorders and change the world for the better. after all, ONLY people that DON'T KNOW a thing about that reality will choose a toxic narcissistic leaders over and over for all the wrong reasons.
"we need to educate young girls and boys on this" I believe this used to be referred to as parenting.
Donald trump is toxic leader ?
@@bubsnicket Nihilistic parents don't care about the children. Almost all of them don't even really care about themselves. You can observe that by their consumption behavior and their ignorance.
I've always been very kind to my girlfriends, and am generally polite and soft spoken...but I also have a temper that flares up specifically if people I care for are in danger.
I've shocked some girls into breaking up with me because they didn't think I was capable of violence for some reason, even though it was in their defense.
It surely is a fine line to walk.
You weren't Mr Right, just Mr Right now. They just needed an excuse.
Hybristophilia is common among women. Your violence had nothing to do with it, women love power by proxy.
@@Berserkism On the other hand I've gotten into a total strangers pants just by threatening to beat a guy up for no reason but to impress her, literally said "I'll do it if you want me to." even though I wouldn't have because I don't do that kinda thing (and the guy was no match anyway). I was just drunk and messing around, but this was just bumping into strangers getting smokes at 2 am and she brought me back to her place just like that.
@@Berserkism Exactly. Both enablers and instigators of "bad" behavior are common among the more dramatic sex.
Crime drama is practically porn for them.
Every girlfriend I've had has been into the "bad boys". I'm the distant, quiet, potentially violent type, so I guess I fall in the category. But I could tell that none of them ever really loved me.
@NotSure Which is that? Nvm...
Very interesting topic and it helps me understand current dating. For myself I always had quite the disgust against people with these dark triad traits (especially narcissism paired up with low consciousness) and/or fell prey to them (like manipulative people).
I would really like to know what we can do as individuals and as a society to contain their damage. In my teens I was just too young to understand what's going on social hierarchy wise so I always ended up making myself the outsider.. Now it's rather the opposite as I'm aware of all these concepts (thanks JBP!).
But there is also not a single word about the Womens agency. Wouldn't it be the womens responsibility to incentivize more "good men" (acc. JBP's definition) than Dark Triad men too? Responsibility must taken on by both sides otherwise the game can't work.
women cant incentivize "good men" because their attraction to bad boys is biological.
The words Women and responsibility do not even belong in the same sentence.
if you look at it from a male perspective, Men want a "Bad girl", a girl who would be spontaneous, wild, fun at parties, open to adventures, and can satisfy him sexually. But in a long term, a man would not marry that type of woman because he sees her as disrespectful to herself and lacks the traits that would ensure a decent future for him and his children.
False. Only beta males. Aloha males want a submissive girl
@@anastasiasanchez7852 who said anything about submissive? learn to read.
@@MarwanMahdy I did, learn how to makes sense
@@anastasiasanchez7852 can you quote where I said "submissive"?
@@MarwanMahdy listen and learn little boy, can you quote where I said that you said submissive
Essentially, JP has in this podcast and others, furthered the idea that some young women are unable to distinguish between the badboy and what they really want, the alpha. Whereas the badboy not only is formidable to others, but is dangerous to himself, for either lack of self control or intelligence, puts himself in harms way, ultimately negatively affecting the security and protection of females
I was 17 and I was kind of attracted to this guy (19) where I worked. He didn't talk much or interact with fellow workmates, but one evening a workmate brought some beers to celebrate his birthday and, after half a glass, this guy started reciting Mark Antony's soliloquy. I had never known a teenage boy of my acquaintance who seemed to have a passing acquaintance with Shakespeare. He caught my attention big time. Two years later we married, 50 years this coming December.
His looks caught my attention, but his intelligence sealed the deal. He has a gentle nature but could be dangerous in the right circumstances. We complement each other in our strengths and weaknesses.
Cool story bro. So a guy that's your type and kind of nerd got you all frothy in the loins.
Interesting discussion of high dark triad males. Can you discuss what high dark triad women are like?
As a 65 yo, divorced and once labeled "nice guy" I wish I had known the truth in the below lyrics , my only true love I have ever known was and is still music and the most curvy guitars.
Ooh La La
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Lyrics
Main Results
Poor old Granddad, I laughed at all his words
I thought he was a bitter man
He spoke of women's ways
They'll trap you when they use you
Before you even know
For love is blind and you're far to kind
Don't ever let it show
I wish that I knew what I know now
When I was younger
I wish that I knew what I know now
When I was stronger
The can-can such a pretty show
Will steal your heart away
But backstage back on earth again
The dressing rooms are grey
They come on strong and it ain't too long
For they make you feel a man
But love is blind and you soon will find
You're just a boy again
When you want her lips, you get her cheek
Makes you wonder where you are
If you want some more then she's fast asleep
Leaves you twinkling with the stars
Poor young grandson there's nothing I can say
You'll have to learn, just like me
And that's the hardest way
Ooh la la
Ooh la la, la la, yeah
I wish that I knew what I know now
When I was younger
I wish that I knew what I know now
When I was stronger
Jordan I love you and you have changed my life in so many ways. Please never sell out. Please never lower yourself to using clickbait.
fortunately he doesn't have any need to... he's arguably one of the most well known and respected men in the western world today because of his ability to articulate complex problems... he's not going to lower himself to clickbate like a UA-cam noob trying to scratch a few pennies from ads
Jordan Peterson, a man of high intellect. I consume as much information from him as I can. He's not political or constrained by cultural Marxism (political correctness), and puts the truth right out there.
its because they have an attraction floor , they only date up , read the rational male
The issue with Dark Triad, is that creates a social leaders uncapable of empathy. Which basically creates a toxic behavior that is followed by those who are part of the social group (usually this behavior is camouflaged with the title of "joke"). This type of groups usually are common in teenagers, but is not extinguished in adults. Those type of social groups and behaviors, show us, that is not only usefull but necessary to have a "bad guy" on your inner self, for survival reasons and self-protection.
Good leaders show submissive behaviors intentionally towards social interaction in order to make others around confortable, such as giving the upper hand on the handshake, compliments and serving people. You may wonder why is that. Because they have a higher sense of empathy than usual people, they are also confident on themselves, so make sure that if you're not the leader, that the leader of your social group, has those types of characteristics (White Triad).
And remember yourself, even if you are the leader of the group, there are times that you must give the lead to someone, this, is what makes you special, because you know that you're not the best on every single aspect of your life, and often, you give people the lead in order to get the best knowledge and/or result for the group/yourself.
Your English sucks, but your thoughts are useful.
My God - Jordan Peterson just made me look at myself in a completely different way. He's bloody amazing!
Women never stop being attracted to these traits, they just understand that these kind of people are not likely to commit.
The same way men put less emphasis on a woman's looks as they get older, but they never stop being attracted to them
Yea...i think the married people here are deluding themselves by saying its usually the young women that fall for it and that women just want the protector or provider. As someone with nearly every symptom of all three of the triad its actualy laughable. For background I've never had a stable job situation, I'm not exceptionally attractive or tall and I'm many times quite shy. The only thing im exceptional in is having a charismatic presence that seems pull them in pull them in like a tractor beam. It's almost magical. In my experience it doesnt matter whether they're in a relationship or married whatsoever. I just think women NEED to be put in their place by men but our society is reaching total emasculation especially in the younger generations so women are GASPING for it . I cant tell you how many times women who I barely know or just met have asked me to slap them or choke them. I actually dont even like it but they almost always demand it. In my experience older women generaly do know im most definitely not for a relationship but they're happy to play with fire regardless. I think we all know this but are very uncomfortable with the true reality of female nature. " I am afraid that woman appreciate cruelty, downright cruelty, more than anything else. They have wonderfully primitive instincts. We have emancipated them, but they remain slaves looking for their masters, all the same. They love being dominated." Oscar wilde
Where's the scientific evidence to your claims?
@@avapilsen I haven't provided scientific evidence just like these men haven't. It's observation.
Women never truly like bad boys because they're bad, they just like their characteristics - risk taking, confidence, willingness to go against the grain, they normally find it harder/impossible to push around "bad boys" as compared to "nice guys" etc.
Paieed with decent/high intelligence I'd say that vast majority of fortune 500 CEOs actually have these traits, yet they aren't exactly bad boys. Think Harvey Spector.
I hope this answer is to your satisfaction. I'm actually interested in having a civil discourse with you.
@@monkeydotbizness Your are exceptionally attractive for that to happen , don't dailude your self on how your personality matters . If you ugly u ugly .And if you don't have access to the social circles that women tipically hang out u would be alone . Congratulations on your sexual conquest , but I think it's about other reasons , and to add to that very good social awareness and ability to socialize .
And why they will cheat if given the opportunity.
I think it's not that women "like bad guys". It's just that high status men with good genes that are clearly expressed (good looking), can afford not to be nice. And not being nice often costs less energy than being nice. They are spoiled for choice, so it doesn't matter as much if bad behaviour shies a few women away. If a man is ugly and unsuccessful and treats women bad, he's not considered a "bad boy" he's simply considered a creep and undesirable. It's only good looking men that receive this terminology.
So true.
Facts. The difference between being a creep and being a catch is attractiveness
@@andyleung913 That is very true.
Everyone has value. It is up to you to see it and decide if it is enough for you today. Then if not it is up to you to see if a person has the will to be in progress. If they don't then you need to decide whether to move along or keep them around. If they do then their value has the capacity to consistently increase and it is definitely worth keeping them around. To note: The will to be in progress is really hard to find in people.
Value? What value is that? I never heard the word 40 years ago - only "values" which is what you need, and all these moronic moderns seeking the perfect life without giving anything. Your entire "pitch" is about what another person brings to you. Go get it yourself.
May be an unrelated point but if you don't go after the girl then you will almost always end up with someone who you had a chance of saying no to, you had a choice. If you desire someone and are overwhelmingly attracted to them then you will not give yourself that choice, and therefore there will be more staying power in the relationship in the case of how attracted you are to them. Far too many people end up in relationships because they are approached and say 'fuck it', how fucking crazy is that?
Mars is the fuck boy that young women are attracted to; Jupiter is the mature man capable of leadership that women want as a husband. It's all in the design.