I think the most important part of European CA be defined by the Iron and steel. Steel spring bows. Steel swords made impossibly small and nimble. Steel armor. Steel capable of holding and concentrating a powder charge. Not that they monopolized anything, but certainly had more.
I think the main advantage of mounted crossbows vs mounted archers is that it will break the shield formation better than archers, if the enemy decides to hold their formation in a shield wall. For example, 1000 arrows delivering 50 joules each vs 1000 bolts delivering 200 joules each shooting at a shield wall, the crossbow volleys should disintegrate the shield better than bows, especially when the crossbows are quadruple the kinetic energy. Of course the bows will be able to discharge much faster but the crossbowmen can carry more ammunition per volume capacity. Either the enemy of the shield wall decides to engage in the offensive, or continue to slowly recieve crossbow bolts. I don’t think the bolts need to completely destroy the shield to be effective, they just need to weaken the shield enough to affect the morale of the shield bearers, or force them to engage in the offensive. It also depends on the shield quality and type.. Also, Is the Audio background ok? I am at a gun range near a highway
@@lichenggong1248 almost none LOL. previous ranges i have been, they want me to bring a manufactured crossbow typically with Camo paint, scope and carbon bolts, even more sad is most commerical crossbows today are compound crossbows
I wonder if the first crossbows were traps set to trip lines and don’t show up in recorded weapons history. Maybe Stone Age cave men invented it. Then someone made it portable.
@historicalweapons thanks for this informative video! On minute 5:00 you show a muslim crossbow- I had the imression from the pic, this is a high bending short bow, a horse bow-this might be an adaption, I don‘t think I have seen that for european crossbow? And the stick is extreme long-is there may be an advantage when shooting from a horse to stabilize the aiming? Or did the arabs moved the bow part closer to the horse head, holdin it pretty far in the back? This long stick is irritating, definitely not good for melee.
Yes it’s a longer powerstroke composite prod with a European system so this combination produces a very powerful yet efficient but difficult to string crossbow. These would be siege weapons or mounted cavalry crossbows for one shot then retreat
just saw your shorts video and Im already in love with the content, Ive been looking for this kind of channel for a while and you just came up in clutch
I recently thought about making a bow that is drawn from the feet. Then I realized many crossbows are loaded in this manner anyways, and you don't get caught laying down. All said and done though, I'd love to see a ten foot long bow designed to shoot javelin sized arrows while laying prone, just for giggles
2:45 often times its the bow that outranges crossbows, so either the arabs had low poundage crap bows or the chinese brought very heavy weight crossbows.
What abou the muslim mounted crossbow in Iberia as I know it was more common because they have less reach for horse archers and the crossbows were designed to be mounted on the saddel in someway
Do you have a source for Chinese crossbow locks? I'd appreciate it if you could let me know. I made a lock of the Chinese design with moose antler, as where I now work, I no longer have access to metal working tools. Not the best,!
Great video! Something that is very obscure and not often talked about- this is the first video I can find on it. Was there any use of crossbows in India, given the bracketing with Afghanistan, Persia and Burma?
@@Tareltonlives the pictures already show Mughal crossbows in the video here but I believe is mostly for entertainment from nobles and the occasional war use
Your last comment about the inverted shape of the limbs has to do with the "recurve" shape that pushes an arrow or a bolt with more authority than straight limbs. No ethnic or religious correlation. The bows in the Middle East had recurve lmbs to begin with which were applied to the geometry of their crossbows. More of a preference than a religious inclination. The rest of your video, the observations; particularly that a crossbow is not a very good cavalry weapn are all quite accurate. A good archer would launch a dozen arrows in one minute. This isn't possible with a crossbow which were used as armor piercing heavy bolts launched at very high speed compared to bows, requiring more effort to draw them in place. As you clearly mention, they were more of a siege weapon. They were perhaps used to shoot big game as well because from horseback.
@@ianuser9650yes, albeit it’s written from an author who also had very biased distaste of Christian Greek people. His biases are written all over. Perhaps the average Muslim thought he same
4:34 could it be that those long crossbow were made like that to use the full drawnleng of the bow while using the rolling nut type trigger? at 4:39 that guy looks like it using the long stock for better stabilization while riding
@@laurolavanda1807 it’s a simplification for the context of a video title. Of course there were Muslims as a minority in Christian and budhist majority states but when one says Muslim world people have a good idea what I’m talking about
Yes... in general Muslims use horse Archer ,or another mean of Cavalry But I can see Persian Muslims being interested in this... they are really smart after all😅 But after the Ottomans came... they really worshiped cannons😅
@@HistoricalWeapons : Thinking back on why Muslims would use or NOT use crossbows, I think it is a matter of fighting styles and preference. I've been scouring the internet, looking for whatever I can find on crossbow usage but what I can find is scanty at best.
The bows you call Muslim are actually Turkish bows, which the Chinese call crossbows, and they became widespread when they were seen as mercenaries in the armies of the Islamic caliphs and were carried to Europe. Also, China learned this bow from the Turks and copied it.
@@siberiaacoustic not really... At that time, Islam was not fully accepted by all Turks, so it has become more clear in recent years that the motivation was to give 1 share of booty to foot soldiers and 3 shares to horse archers.
Timurids were not descendants of Mongols. They were actually turkic, some were turkisized mongols though, though their origin is still debated (like Naimans and Kereits). Timur himself was turkic, spoke a turkic laguage, was a muslim, and took turko-persian titles (Amir, Emir, Sahibgiran). Though his ancestry originated from turkisized, turko-mongolic barlas tribes
Ulugh Beg's work on genealogy classified Mongols as Turks, while also praising their warrior spirit.[32] Ulugh Beg included Yāfas (Japheth), Turk, Mughūl, Tātār and Ughūz in the genealogical record of the Genghisids and Timurids.[32]
Islaam started with Adam. So Noah, Moses, Jesus and the famously known prophets were Muslims. Islaam is an Arabic word and is defined as submission to The Almighty. A better way to phrase it would be “from the time of Prophet Muhammad,” or “the followers of Prophet Muhammad,” instead of saying “since the start of Islaam.” Just as a matter of thoroughness and accuracy in the reports and monologues. Thanks for the video.
Islam became a religion in the 5th century. Judaism and Christianity both claim the original people (the word Adam and all the other names in the Bible are Hebrew) of Earth were the first of their religion. But no writings can date Jewish or Christian teaching to that date so it is considered that Judaism began approx 1000 before Christ and Christianity started at the beginning of recorded history. (Approximately 30 A.D.) Both Christianity and Judaism are hard to pinpoint because history was not recorded the same way back then, but Islam was developed after recorded history, and Muhammad himself dates many of his writings. "From the time of Islam" can either mean from about 500 AD when the Quran was being written, to about 700 AD when the first Islamic war bands started to propagate Islam across the Middle East and North Africa.
Most people are comparing data from Mary rose longbows which is already pushing the limits of bows. A typical 60lb composite Arab bow uses thiner hollow shafts which tend to not only shatter on impact from reed shafts but also have more friction due to the length. Now if you compare this with a 500lb@15” composite crossbow with a hardwood bolt, the comparison is huge. Not only does shorter bolts have less buckling, their stiffness reduces energy loss. Though the shafts are typically thicker, the head portion can be made the same as arrows. They are simply better at penetrating plywood. How do I know? Decade of experience shooting arrows and bolts and seeing what breaks. Now I haven’t done specific testing on specific shields, although the results will vary, plywood has been my experience for a medium that I frequently shoot
Check channel medieval crossbows from some of his tests against wood boards as thick as 45 mm and he penetrates it. It’s clear that a powerful crossbow will penetrate more wood than a medium weight composite bow. Even the heaviest bows cannot penetrate as much wood nor deliver as much joules
Underrated for sure compound bows and horse archery always gets the spotlight for middle eastern archery.
Its the same in most nomadic/semi nomadic cultures.
Recurve? I always call recurve bows compound 😂.
Ought to change the name to "pulley" bows.
Although Pergamon and Bactria was before Islam its nice to mention since they are so forgotten today and later became part of the Muslim world
Plus, he mention Persian crossbows which happened right before Islam
I only know about pergamon thanks to total war
@@fatboy8420javelin fest
@@fatboy8420 bro their Galician swords are op in medium funds
@@HistoricalWeapons clubmen counter everything
I like these recreations a lot. Well done, more videos like this please.
really appreciate the historical context you give for these! thanks!
This was a very cool topic and video, those large ones from the artworks look so imposing.
It’s non European history so not gonna get many views
What language you tying in buddy ?
Nice, keep posting info about historical crossbows and bows.
It's the most interesting content! - And what you're best at!
I think the most important part of European CA be defined by the Iron and steel.
Steel spring bows.
Steel swords made impossibly small and nimble.
Steel armor.
Steel capable of holding and concentrating a powder charge.
Not that they monopolized anything, but certainly had more.
I think the main advantage of mounted crossbows vs mounted archers is that it will break the shield formation better than archers, if the enemy decides to hold their formation in a shield wall. For example, 1000 arrows delivering 50 joules each vs 1000 bolts delivering 200 joules each shooting at a shield wall, the crossbow volleys should disintegrate the shield better than bows, especially when the crossbows are quadruple the kinetic energy. Of course the bows will be able to discharge much faster but the crossbowmen can carry more ammunition per volume capacity. Either the enemy of the shield wall decides to engage in the offensive, or continue to slowly recieve crossbow bolts. I don’t think the bolts need to completely destroy the shield to be effective, they just need to weaken the shield enough to affect the morale of the shield bearers, or force them to engage in the offensive. It also depends on the shield quality and type..
Also, Is the Audio background ok? I am at a gun range near a highway
bro consider yourself lucky, how many ranges allow you to shoot homemade crossbows
@@lichenggong1248 almost none LOL. previous ranges i have been, they want me to bring a manufactured crossbow typically with Camo paint, scope and carbon bolts, even more sad is most commerical crossbows today are compound crossbows
Too loud
Well unlike firearms, bows and crossbows can be used almost anywhere. It's only a matter of not having people around where an accident could happen.
The background sound is not that bad at all, didn't even notice it until you mentioned it!
I wonder if the first crossbows were traps set to trip lines and don’t show up in recorded weapons history. Maybe Stone Age cave men invented it. Then someone made it portable.
Jack mentioned those already in his African crossbow video.
Excellent start on what is huge subject. Awesome 😎
Thank you, I wish more professional crossbowmakers made these instead of mine
Great work! I like how you work with all of that original artwork.
as a muslim i appreciate you , May Allah bless you
@historicalweapons thanks for this informative video! On minute 5:00 you show a muslim crossbow- I had the imression from the pic, this is a high bending short bow, a horse bow-this might be an adaption, I don‘t think I have seen that for european crossbow? And the stick is extreme long-is there may be an advantage when shooting from a horse to stabilize the aiming? Or did the arabs moved the bow part closer to the horse head, holdin it pretty far in the back? This long stick is irritating, definitely not good for melee.
Yes it’s a longer powerstroke composite prod with a European system so this combination produces a very powerful yet efficient but difficult to string crossbow. These would be siege weapons or mounted cavalry crossbows for one shot then retreat
In Turkish these are called "Tataryayı"I guess because we saw them from Mongols(they were called Tartars by early Ottomans).
More lost Tartarian Tech 😅
just saw your shorts video and Im already in love with the content, Ive been looking for this kind of channel for a while and you just came up in clutch
Brilliant 🎉 Great work 🏹🏴
Wallah
Finally not sponsored
The limbs (?) on the Mogul "toy" are beautiful.
Casual viewer here. Really like your content.
不錯，不錯。
I recently thought about making a bow that is drawn from the feet.
Then I realized many crossbows are loaded in this manner anyways, and you don't get caught laying down.
All said and done though, I'd love to see a ten foot long bow designed to shoot javelin sized arrows while laying prone, just for giggles
2:45 often times its the bow that outranges crossbows, so either the arabs had low poundage crap bows or the chinese brought very heavy weight crossbows.
Chinese crossbows have long powerstroke so they are basically heavy bows tied on a stick with triggers
What abou the muslim mounted crossbow in Iberia as I know it was more common because they have less reach for horse archers and the crossbows were designed to be mounted on the saddel in someway
I mentioned them as Andalusian crossbows in this vid
When do we get the historical bow tier list
Do you have a source for Chinese crossbow locks? I'd appreciate it if you could let me know.
I made a lock of the Chinese design with moose antler, as where I now work, I no longer have access to metal working tools. Not the best,!
Great video! Something that is very obscure and not often talked about- this is the first video I can find on it. Was there any use of crossbows in India, given the bracketing with Afghanistan, Persia and Burma?
Mughals in the west and (far East Indian) Ardesh Prudesh crossbows are similar to Hmong crossbows
@@HistoricalWeapons Interesting. And how would the Mughals use the crossbow? Similar to these examples?
@@Tareltonlives the pictures already show Mughal crossbows in the video here but I believe is mostly for entertainment from nobles and the occasional war use
Your last comment about the inverted shape of the limbs has to do with the "recurve" shape that pushes an arrow or a bolt with more authority than straight limbs. No ethnic or religious correlation. The bows in the Middle East had recurve lmbs to begin with which were applied to the geometry of their crossbows. More of a preference than a religious inclination.
The rest of your video, the observations; particularly that a crossbow is not a very good cavalry weapn are all quite accurate. A good archer would launch a dozen arrows in one minute. This isn't possible with a crossbow which were used as armor piercing heavy bolts launched at very high speed compared to bows, requiring more effort to draw them in place. As you clearly mention, they were more of a siege weapon. They were perhaps used to shoot big game as well because from horseback.
Arab archery text specifically mentions they frown at using it because it resembles a cross (though this is written from a morrocan perspective )
@@ianuser9650yes, albeit it’s written from an author who also had very biased distaste of Christian Greek people. His biases are written all over. Perhaps the average Muslim thought he same
4:34 could it be that those long crossbow were made like that to use the full drawnleng of the bow while using the rolling nut type trigger?
at 4:39 that guy looks like it using the long stock for better stabilization while riding
Yeah that make sense
These crossbows are very halal! Allah bless these crossbows!
Any Muslim use mention in Byzantine or Indonesian sources
Crusades is Byzantine source
In Malay the Chinese crossbow was used
@@bugger6881 Source? Did Malaccan armies use crossbow against Portuguese? I'm Malay so what were they called back then?
@@dydactic1112there has been debate over a stone mural on facebook showing a potential crossbow last month, cant find the post unfortunatly
protect this man at all costs
Non European centric history
Why?
@@guaporeturns9472cuz he is the only person making this content
@@guaporeturns9472dunno but I did have a death threat in the past lol
@@HistoricalWeapons Yeah but with all your experience with weapons you can protect yourself , no need to be protected by others
It never stops raining where you are.
Haha west coast Canada
Very good
Thanks
When you said muslim crossbows, I immediately start imagining the crossbows taking shahada!🤣
Why’s your Chinese triggered one you look so scared
Cuz it’s a poorly made reproduction that tends to dry fire over 100lbs. The claw gap was also too small for nocks so I had to add a D loop
@@HistoricalWeaponsoh
Muslim crossbow? What, do you pull the trigger and it doesn't go off until you're in a crowd or something?
Crossbows of the Muslim world
Religion is not etnian@@HistoricalWeapons
@@laurolavanda1807 it’s a simplification for the context of a video title. Of course there were Muslims as a minority in Christian and budhist majority states but when one says Muslim world people have a good idea what I’m talking about
Nice
Are they circumcised?
Wala
can you review about Vietnamese bow
Cool.
Yes... in general Muslims use horse Archer ,or another mean of Cavalry
But I can see Persian Muslims being interested in this... they are really smart after all😅
But after the Ottomans came... they really worshiped cannons😅
Yes ottomans did but they were once horse archery favoured Seljuk Turks of Rum
interesting that the Arabic name for crossbow is qaws faranji, "Ferenghi bow; Frankish bow".
Even more interesting because we know for sure the Muslims had crossbows before the franks
@@HistoricalWeapons : Thinking back on why Muslims would use or NOT use crossbows, I think it is a matter of fighting styles and preference. I've been scouring the internet, looking for whatever I can find on crossbow usage but what I can find is scanty at best.
The halal string is no match for the Chinese army
The Chinese lost
Non European centric history
🎉
Are they halal or haram?
The bows you call Muslim are actually Turkish bows, which the Chinese call crossbows, and they became widespread when they were seen as mercenaries in the armies of the Islamic caliphs and were carried to Europe. Also, China learned this bow from the Turks and copied it.
Quick question, those Turks that held the crossbow in the paintings are what religion?
@@ianuser9650 tengri
@@yasarburakusluand Muslim
@@siberiaacoustic not really... At that time, Islam was not fully accepted by all Turks, so it has become more clear in recent years that the motivation was to give 1 share of booty to foot soldiers and 3 shares to horse archers.
@@siberiaacoustic not exactly
Timurids were not descendants of Mongols. They were actually turkic, some were turkisized mongols though, though their origin is still debated (like Naimans and Kereits). Timur himself was turkic, spoke a turkic laguage, was a muslim, and took turko-persian titles (Amir, Emir, Sahibgiran). Though his ancestry originated from turkisized, turko-mongolic barlas tribes
There we go again from a Turk
Ulugh Beg's work on genealogy classified Mongols as Turks, while also praising their warrior spirit.[32] Ulugh Beg included Yāfas (Japheth), Turk, Mughūl, Tātār and Ughūz in the genealogical record of the Genghisids and Timurids.[32]
Perhaps my language should of been more conservative such as perhaps the descendants
Stfu Turk, Tamerlane was a Mongol along with Timurids, that's why they crushed your ottoman ancestors.
@@HistoricalWeaponsjust ignore the Turks, they are everywhere and annoying, and always try and rewrite Central Asian history. 😊
unfortunately non-european history will likely get low views
History is written by the victors
@@fatboy8420Wala
Except Japanese and black history
@@fatboy8420 Ever hear of Asia?
If you made a video about the English longbow with similar lever of effort you would go viral
Islaam started with Adam. So Noah, Moses, Jesus and the famously known prophets were Muslims. Islaam is an Arabic word and is defined as submission to The Almighty. A better way to phrase it would be “from the time of Prophet Muhammad,” or “the followers of Prophet Muhammad,” instead of saying “since the start of Islaam.” Just as a matter of thoroughness and accuracy in the reports and monologues. Thanks for the video.
Islam became a religion in the 5th century.
Judaism and Christianity both claim the original people (the word Adam and all the other names in the Bible are Hebrew) of Earth were the first of their religion. But no writings can date Jewish or Christian teaching to that date so it is considered that Judaism began approx 1000 before Christ and Christianity started at the beginning of recorded history. (Approximately 30 A.D.)
Both Christianity and Judaism are hard to pinpoint because history was not recorded the same way back then, but Islam was developed after recorded history, and Muhammad himself dates many of his writings.
"From the time of Islam" can either mean from about 500 AD when the Quran was being written, to about 700 AD when the first Islamic war bands started to propagate Islam across the Middle East and North Africa.
THE CLAIM THAT THE CROSSBOWS PENETRATED SHEILDS BETTER BECAUSE THE SHAFTS ARE SHORTER IS RUBBISH. WHAT FACTS CAN YOU PROOVE THAT WITH.
Most people are comparing data from Mary rose longbows which is already pushing the limits of bows. A typical 60lb composite Arab bow uses thiner hollow shafts which tend to not only shatter on impact from reed shafts but also have more friction due to the length. Now if you compare this with a 500lb@15” composite crossbow with a hardwood bolt, the comparison is huge. Not only does shorter bolts have less buckling, their stiffness reduces energy loss. Though the shafts are typically thicker, the head portion can be made the same as arrows. They are simply better at penetrating plywood. How do I know? Decade of experience shooting arrows and bolts and seeing what breaks. Now I haven’t done specific testing on specific shields, although the results will vary, plywood has been my experience for a medium that I frequently shoot
Check channel medieval crossbows from some of his tests against wood boards as thick as 45 mm and he penetrates it. It’s clear that a powerful crossbow will penetrate more wood than a medium weight composite bow. Even the heaviest bows cannot penetrate as much wood nor deliver as much joules
You should just say Middle Eastern Crossbows
Then it doesn’t include those Andalusian crossbows nor the timurid crossbows nor the South Asian Mughal crossbows
@@HistoricalWeapons it is best to call them by their said culture. See how you said European cross bows? No one says Christian Crossbows.
Arabic or Persian ,not Muslim, 🤦🏽♂️
Then your missing the Andalusian, the ilkhanate, the non-Arab Mamluks, the timurids, the Mughals etc
😢
crossbow used by muslims ........ may be ...... how can you assign a weapon to a religion? other than that, good stuff!
Muslim military crossbows
Islam.is a religion not an id
Islamic military is what u meant to say
choking the trigger the Chinese trigger. Sorry I had to do to it. I'm an asshole.
How’s ur finger skills
@@qr1-tg1wi pretty good. But its been one week since you looked at me.
How did this pass UA-cam algorithm lol 😊
😢