I've shot my Leica MP for years now and for the first time I'm considering a digital M. The constraints of film really focused me as a photographer but the flexibility to work faster and have more control of the post production process is something that's become more appealing over time, similar to how it may have felt for people who photographed in the pre-digital era. Good observations, it's helped me to realise that both mediums can co-exist faithfully with the photographer.
As a digital Leica guy I really enjoyed the content of this video. Don’t be worried about using your old lenses on the M11 you will probably really like the results
@@jeffstephens5266 I agree. I use modern Leica and Voigtländer M, vintage Leica and Voigtländer M, vintage Leica + Nikon Leica Thread mount, vintage Leica R lenses, and vintage Nikon 35 mm lenses on Leica digital CL, M11, M11 Monochrom, and SL2 digital cameras (the Nikon lenses aren’t adapted to the M cameras).
I must say I have really liked most of your well-weighted comments, not just on photography, film and digital cameras, AI and more in-depth comments about the nature of constraints (not just in photography), the future of photography and where it could lead us to. I am a Kriya Yoga and Tai Chi teacher, Wim Hof Method instructor and I love photography. Keep up what you are doing because it brings not just beauty but a lot of insight to whoever watches and listens carefully. Take care!
Ah that's so kind of you! Thank you so much for your words. That's all very impressive what you are doing. It's nice to see when people notice the parallels between all these things.
I shot film on a 500cm for 20 years but recently switched to a Leica M10 Monochrom recently. For me the constraint is very important. I’ve owned many other digital cameras through the years but being able to switch between colour and black and white isn’t good for my output quality. Love the m10m so far. I paid around 5000€ for it.
Very thoughtful insight into photography. Moral and financial dilemmas . I also have used film for most of my life and have struggled with the film process v the digital. At the end of the day I have decided to shoot film as a passion that makes me happy and shoot digital to get the job done, there is room for both.
By the way, the lens on the MD 262 is a 50mm Summicron Rigid from 1964. It renders more like film. The Leica M11 can shoot at 18 megapixels. Food for thought...!
Nice to hear your thoughts on this, I also struggle with thinking about the environmental footprint of film photography, but can't quite give up my 4x5 and 8x10 cameras yet. I do love photographing with my M9 though, it definitely feels more like a film camera than my Sony a7RII.
Totally understand that. I do kind of believe that the bigger the format, the more meaningful the approach is and therefore the less harmful the impact? And yes, I believe those old digital Ms have a very slide-film look, just lovely!
Digital is not film in terms of size of sensors! Even TINY sensors can make large prints! I used 3.5MP cameras to do 20x30cm prints! Darn digital sees in the dark. Test even slow ISO! @@doyoudevelop
No worries about the 48mp sensors on the latest smartphons at all. All photos won't reveal much more details than an old 6mp digital point-and-shoot camera anyway..
Great video, and beautiful photographs! I use old M lenses on my M10 (and film M) and love the way they look on digital. I don't think you need a separate set of modern lenses for a digital M. It's just a different look, with its own value.
Did your cost comparison (number of Tri-X film rolls vs. M11) include the cost of processing the film? The M11 has a much wider ISO range than film, and one can change ISO with each shot.
Sure! Especially if you process film yourself .. but it’s not like one is better than the other. it’s more of a thought experiment. Sure, film tri-x might only be useable from 100-6400 .. but that’s okay for most purposes. Even when shooting with a digital camera I mostly stick to one ISO speed per scene. Auto iso can be weird for example. At the end of the day it just boils down to whatever works for you .. :)
@@doyoudevelop I have no skin in the film vs. digital game and I don’t see photography as an “either or” game. I have 35 mm film (2xNikon, 1xLeica, and am looking for some vintage Leica Barnack cameras to use), 4x5 (Arca-Swiss field camera), medium format (Hasselblad 500C), and digital (2xNikon, 5xLeica) cameras. I just wanted to clarify that your cost analysis was incomplete and biased to film. Whether a lab or we process the film, that costs money too. In addition, one either has to print film photographs or digitize them (either process has a monetary and time cost). Digital photography is certainly more convenient and not necessarily much more expensive than film photography. Nevertheless, I enjoy the process and results of shooting with film too. Most films have relatively low ISO values, and generally image quality degrades as the ISO value rating increases. With modern digital cameras, IQ degrades with increasing ISO too, but some have exceptionally high quantum efficiency that film simply cannot compete with (the physics of film is much different than that in CCD or CMOS sensors). Photographing under very low light conditions with film can be challenging due to Reciprocity failure. Then there’s the ability to verify composition, exposure etc. in a digital camera that cannot be done with film cameras.
I'd love to eventually see some kind of organic sensor which behaves more like film. I'm not sure it's even possible hahah.. but a least it may give some soul back to otherwise dull digital files.
Yes! I mean lots of the old Leica sensors were like this, the M8, M9, they all had that "slide film look" .. it's a shame that modern digital sensors all miss the point in photography.
Thanks for this video, really enjoyed your perspective on the M and photography as a whole. I wonder what your thoughts are on the monochrome versions of the digital M, refreshing or crazy? 🙂If you are interested, I also make videos on Leica camera and photography in general. If you have some feedback for me, I would highly appreciate it. Greetings, from Belgium
Hey man, thank you! Monochrome M's are crazy, I don't think I personally would dare to go there :D But they are definitely something that is very niche and cool. Maybe if the film industry would totally disappear, I could imagine using a monochrome paired with a nice highly quality inkjet printer for home use .. I've subscribed to your channel :)
@@doyoudevelop I have been playing with this crazy idea of getting a digital monochrome and a film camera for colour. For some reason, it feels like the best of both worlds. Not ready to make the plunge though 🫣. Also subscribed to your channel! Curious to see what you create next ✌🏻
I too am trying to make digital work, even my M9 doesn't feel film like to me and I wind up adding grain or blurring. In other words I feel like I'm violating the nature of my digital cameras.
It's not easy, eh? I feel that the benefit of digital is though: there are no rules in a way. You want to change an image completely? Go for it. With film, it feels more like you want to stick to the nature of film .. not sure if that makes sense.
The romance of film. It's a lie! It is capricious, speed of film varies! The idea of one exposure is nonsensical. The after work, darkroom, that I loved, before there was a choice! Not ALL Digital cameras are fast asleep! Only Leica! Danger of high end, new digital boxes, is their cost! Ransom-ware a real threat! The Leica thing in P, will not help.. The cost of film. It was always expensive. Arnold Newman moved to 35mm as magazines, etc., refused to pay for his loved sheet film, in 80's! Simplicity and actual costs of Digital are there! There are better cameras! Sorry! I love my Film Leica but new models very few can afford. "My old lenses fit" a poor answer.. It's pay for film or move forward. I still shoot a little film, but mostly digital.
When one goes too far to the point of being hypocritical. Your ecological point for not using film is beyond absurd. You know what, maybe it will be also good to not use electricity and soap and that is probably few million times worst than film. People shoot film because it looks like, well, shooting film. They want that result. If one doesn't want or need film, then digital is obvious solution. Babbling on youtube is just that, babbling....same as my comment. And digital Leica doesn't have any advantage except only to tickle somebody's ego...Film one is another story.
Ecological footprint of photography? What a lunacy. How about eColOgicAl foOtpRint of this video being rendered/uploaded/stored on power hungry servers and watched by hundreds of people in 4k rather that modest 720p which is more than enough for talking head format.
Ah here's the keyboard warrior! Agree to your point, that's the next big problem, AI, crypo and big servers consume masses of power that really aren't necessary. Next time i'll film this on my super 8 and have a screening in my backyard.
Really enjoying your calm and thoughtful videos! Thank you so much. Already excited for the next one :)
Thank you so much! Appreciate you dropping by :)
I've shot my Leica MP for years now and for the first time I'm considering a digital M. The constraints of film really focused me as a photographer but the flexibility to work faster and have more control of the post production process is something that's become more appealing over time, similar to how it may have felt for people who photographed in the pre-digital era. Good observations, it's helped me to realise that both mediums can co-exist faithfully with the photographer.
As a digital Leica guy I really enjoyed the content of this video. Don’t be worried about using your old lenses on the M11 you will probably really like the results
Thank you!
@@jeffstephens5266 I agree. I use modern Leica and Voigtländer M, vintage Leica and Voigtländer M, vintage Leica + Nikon Leica Thread mount, vintage Leica R lenses, and vintage Nikon 35 mm lenses on Leica digital CL, M11, M11 Monochrom, and SL2 digital cameras (the Nikon lenses aren’t adapted to the M cameras).
Excellent video! Loved the thoughts on film vs digital.
Thank you!
I must say I have really liked most of your well-weighted comments, not just on photography, film and digital cameras, AI and more in-depth comments about the nature of constraints (not just in photography), the future of photography and where it could lead us to. I am a Kriya Yoga and Tai Chi teacher, Wim Hof Method instructor and I love photography. Keep up what you are doing because it brings not just beauty but a lot of insight to whoever watches and listens carefully. Take care!
Ah that's so kind of you! Thank you so much for your words. That's all very impressive what you are doing. It's nice to see when people notice the parallels between all these things.
@@doyoudevelop Well, exactly my thinking. We need to think more holistically, taking much more account on a global perspective! All the best!
Yes, absolutely! Right back at you :) @@ppudelko9120
I shot film on a 500cm for 20 years but recently switched to a Leica M10 Monochrom recently. For me the constraint is very important. I’ve owned many other digital cameras through the years but being able to switch between colour and black and white isn’t good for my output quality. Love the m10m so far. I paid around 5000€ for it.
I loved you trying to put a roll of film into the battery compartment. Would make a great spoof clip.🤣 Interesting content. Thank you.
Haha yes, that's a classic! Thanks for tuning in!
Very thoughtful insight into photography. Moral and financial dilemmas . I also have used film for most of my life and have struggled with the film process v the digital. At the end of the day I have decided to shoot film as a passion that makes me happy and shoot digital to get the job done, there is room for both.
Yes, that's a good take on it! Thank you for tuning in and sharing your thoughts
Great video. I immediately though the m10-d would be a great for you as it’s a very analog experience.
Thank you!
By the way, the lens on the MD 262 is a 50mm Summicron Rigid from 1964. It renders more like film. The Leica M11 can shoot at 18 megapixels. Food for thought...!
Months later, still watching this Video, trying to make that decision between M10-P and M11-P :-)
Hah! Both are great in my opinion ..
But I personally would probably get an M8 :P
@@doyoudevelop that’s EXACTLY my problem and holding me back from finally making a decision :)
Nice to hear your thoughts on this, I also struggle with thinking about the environmental footprint of film photography, but can't quite give up my 4x5 and 8x10 cameras yet. I do love photographing with my M9 though, it definitely feels more like a film camera than my Sony a7RII.
Totally understand that. I do kind of believe that the bigger the format, the more meaningful the approach is and therefore the less harmful the impact? And yes, I believe those old digital Ms have a very slide-film look, just lovely!
Digital is not film in terms of size of sensors! Even TINY sensors can make large prints! I used 3.5MP cameras to do 20x30cm prints! Darn digital sees in the dark. Test even slow ISO! @@doyoudevelop
No worries about the 48mp sensors on the latest smartphons at all. All photos won't reveal much more details than an old 6mp digital point-and-shoot camera anyway..
Couldn't believe I`d ever shoot digital until my Leica MD 262. Now my Nikon F2 is jealous...!
Pretty calm, well balanced content, Jahan.
Thank you!
Great video, and beautiful photographs! I use old M lenses on my M10 (and film M) and love the way they look on digital. I don't think you need a separate set of modern lenses for a digital M. It's just a different look, with its own value.
Ah, thank you! Yes, they do lovely things regardless of analog or digital!
Did your cost comparison (number of Tri-X film rolls vs. M11) include the cost of processing the film?
The M11 has a much wider ISO range than film, and one can change ISO with each shot.
Sure! Especially if you process film yourself .. but it’s not like one is better than the other. it’s more of a thought experiment. Sure, film tri-x might only be useable from 100-6400 .. but that’s okay for most purposes. Even when shooting with a digital camera I mostly stick to one ISO speed per scene. Auto iso can be weird for example. At the end of the day it just boils down to whatever works for you .. :)
@@doyoudevelop I have no skin in the film vs. digital game and I don’t see photography as an “either or” game. I have 35 mm film (2xNikon, 1xLeica, and am looking for some vintage Leica Barnack cameras to use), 4x5 (Arca-Swiss field camera), medium format (Hasselblad 500C), and digital (2xNikon, 5xLeica) cameras.
I just wanted to clarify that your cost analysis was incomplete and biased to film. Whether a lab or we process the film, that costs money too. In addition, one either has to print film photographs or digitize them (either process has a monetary and time cost). Digital photography is certainly more convenient and not necessarily much more expensive than film photography. Nevertheless, I enjoy the process and results of shooting with film too.
Most films have relatively low ISO values, and generally image quality degrades as the ISO value rating increases. With modern digital cameras, IQ degrades with increasing ISO too, but some have exceptionally high quantum efficiency that film simply cannot compete with (the physics of film is much different than that in CCD or CMOS sensors). Photographing under very low light conditions with film can be challenging due to Reciprocity failure.
Then there’s the ability to verify composition, exposure etc. in a digital camera that cannot be done with film cameras.
I'd love to eventually see some kind of organic sensor which behaves more like film. I'm not sure it's even possible hahah.. but a least it may give some soul back to otherwise dull digital files.
Yes! I mean lots of the old Leica sensors were like this, the M8, M9, they all had that "slide film look" .. it's a shame that modern digital sensors all miss the point in photography.
I really would love to own an SLR but I still can't afford it, processing and printing is way too much for me to spend on
Very interesting thoughts! :)
Thanks, Hannah!
Nice insight man
Thanks man!
Thanks for this video, really enjoyed your perspective on the M and photography as a whole. I wonder what your thoughts are on the monochrome versions of the digital M, refreshing or crazy? 🙂If you are interested, I also make videos on Leica camera and photography in general. If you have some feedback for me, I would highly appreciate it. Greetings, from Belgium
Hey man, thank you! Monochrome M's are crazy, I don't think I personally would dare to go there :D But they are definitely something that is very niche and cool. Maybe if the film industry would totally disappear, I could imagine using a monochrome paired with a nice highly quality inkjet printer for home use .. I've subscribed to your channel :)
@@doyoudevelop I have been playing with this crazy idea of getting a digital monochrome and a film camera for colour. For some reason, it feels like the best of both worlds. Not ready to make the plunge though 🫣. Also subscribed to your channel! Curious to see what you create next ✌🏻
People can and should go on photographing with film without ever considering the ecological impacts.
I too am trying to make digital work, even my M9 doesn't feel film like to me and I wind up adding grain or blurring. In other words I feel like I'm violating the nature of my digital cameras.
It's not easy, eh? I feel that the benefit of digital is though: there are no rules in a way. You want to change an image completely? Go for it. With film, it feels more like you want to stick to the nature of film .. not sure if that makes sense.
The romance of film. It's a lie! It is capricious, speed of film varies! The idea of one exposure is nonsensical. The after work, darkroom, that I loved, before there was a choice! Not ALL Digital cameras are fast asleep! Only Leica! Danger of high end, new digital boxes, is their cost! Ransom-ware a real threat! The Leica thing in P, will not help.. The cost of film. It was always expensive. Arnold Newman moved to 35mm as magazines, etc., refused to pay for his loved sheet film, in 80's! Simplicity and actual costs of Digital are there! There are better cameras! Sorry! I love my Film Leica but new models very few can afford. "My old lenses fit" a poor answer.. It's pay for film or move forward. I still shoot a little film, but mostly digital.
Film is super romantic, especially when it's just a bit of tri-x and some rodinal closely dancing together in a carousel.
Just curious what digital system are you using?
The startup time problem is not as big an issue on other brands. Leica has fallen behind in a few ways.
And it’s not an issue with the M11 if you keep the camera on. The battery has good capacity.
When one goes too far to the point of being hypocritical.
Your ecological point for not using film is beyond absurd.
You know what, maybe it will be also good to not use electricity and soap and that is probably few million times worst than film.
People shoot film because it looks like, well, shooting film. They want that result.
If one doesn't want or need film, then digital is obvious solution.
Babbling on youtube is just that, babbling....same as my comment.
And digital Leica doesn't have any advantage except only to tickle somebody's ego...Film one is another story.
Ecological footprint of photography? What a lunacy. How about eColOgicAl foOtpRint of this video being rendered/uploaded/stored on power hungry servers and watched by hundreds of people in 4k rather that modest 720p which is more than enough for talking head format.
Ah here's the keyboard warrior! Agree to your point, that's the next big problem, AI, crypo and big servers consume masses of power that really aren't necessary. Next time i'll film this on my super 8 and have a screening in my backyard.
Then why are you watching this!? Save power by not using any digital products.
Who hurt you, buddy?