People who have never ridden track have no clue how challenging and fast it is. I've been a sport motorcyclist, skier, snowboarder and cyclist since i was a little kid. Nothing scares me like track racing. This video is a virtuoso performance. I love the juicer overdevelopment, too.
So for those who dont understand ill say it as easly as possible. The reason the stop is because before the last lap you want to be in 2nd place so you can get behind the 1st place so as to make the wind hit you less. The way the german won was by doing this, He was behind but then used his fresher legs at the last minute, sometimes it doesnt work because the 1st place gets to ahead.
there is less drag when you are the second rider, which means you can gain more speed during the last 200 because the first rider is basically taking all the opposing wind, that way the 2nd rider can sling shot much easier and steal first when needed.
I don't understand why people don't get it. They try to get the opponent in front of them so in the final sprint they only have to follow and take over position. It's easier than staying in front. It is not a time trial, it's only important who finishes first.
For obvious reasons, the rules have been changed to forbid prolonged standstills (or track stands). There may be no more than two standstills in a sprint and they may take no more than 30 seconds each.
The announcers don't seem to understand it either. Simply, there are tactical advantages to being in front OR behind, depending on you preference, but either has to be done exactly right. It takes so much power to make a bicycle go 70kph it can only be done for about 4 or 5 seconds, if you can get a run up in the slipstream at that speed a weaker rider can sometimes edge past, the trick is doing it so it happens at the finish line.
Interesting fact: This was before the german reunification as Hübner was still an east german citizen at that time. Hence he was the only, first and last professional winner of a sports trophy in communist Germany.
@@xwind1970 Yes, I am kind of surprised that he was riding the PRO Match Sprint, instead of the amateur Match Sprints. ('93 was the first year that there was a UCI 'open' World Track Championships, where it was just all elite riders, professional and otherwise. The pros then even got to ride 1000 meters less distance for their Pursuit event when this happened, from 5000 meters down to 4000 meters.) But then again, it was always said that the Iron Curtain/Soviet Block supposedly amateur Olympic sports athletes were totally 'pros' anyway, so yeah, it 'works'.
u know i started life as a road cyclist..but then something happend to me like 2 years ago...for the first time i did upper body tranning and holly crap, i can bench now 300 pounds im 6'1 200 pounds it sucks to find your calling too late in life...cycling is beautiful, i hope it survives all the problems and will live on...
The person in second before the last turn usually wins because they are able to draft the person in front of them, meaning they have less wind resistance enabling them to reach a higher top speed before the last straight away. The rest of the race is just a fight for positioning to be in second before the last turn.
@TheFreshBattery They didn't make a move earlier so that the drag(Or is it called drift) space created behind the one leading doesn't come in play. Which means no matter what first person do, the second one won't be behind that person during last 100-200 meters of the race. And since it's easier riding in that space/partial vacuum created behind the leader,the second will be less tired than the leader. Thus can easily end the lead in the last part of the race. So to kill that factor.
Thats one reason, but i would not say it is the main reason. The real reason is to gain the element of suprise, as stated more than once by the commentator: 0:53 if you watch the video Huebner is actually on the front just before the sprint is initiated, and I highly doubt he had any intention of taking 2nd wheel into the sprint as this would have given him the disadvantage of having to come around the other rider.yes they track stand to gain 2nd wheel and more importantly the element of surpise
@footielocker No. There's no drafting in track, drafting is to save energy on distance rides, he was in the back so he could have surprise on the sprint.
By being at the back, when the sprint starts (this can be at any time during the race) it's much easer for the rear person to get up to speed because the front guy is doing the hard work breaking the wind. The rear person can get up to speed in the slip stream and have more energy saved for sprinting past the now tired front person.
The commentator explains this. The sprinting isn't about time, it's about who finishes first. It's sort of a game of cat and mouse... They are each trying to surprise the other, get the advantage etc. Then suddenly they'll make a move and try to be the first across the line.
@IIkingdomII A rider that sprints at the beginning will get tired, and his opponent will be able to sit in the slipstream and keep pace quite easily, before overtaking in the final sprint. Hence the need for the psychological games, and the quick push at the end.
If you want to show someone what match sprint/track racing is all about.. this is the video to play. I had a gaggle of people over my shoulder at work watching in awe. Awesome clip. East Germany and steroids made things exciting :) . Don't care what anyone says.
@tobiausneurobi It is best to be in back (for most riders) because you have the advantage of seeing both your opponent and further up the track. Man one is trying to look back and pay attention to holding his line. Man two can take man one by surprise while they aren't looking.
its not about getting the draft in this case. This sort of sprint takes a lot of energy and you wear out in seconds, the person in the back can start accelerating without the person in front noticing for a split second, that can be the difference leading to victory. It may seem like he is behind 3 feet but in the time it may take the leader to notice the trailing rider could have accelerated to top speed.
@antifolkhero It's just like how in nascar racing it is an advantage to be just behind your opponent, this way they are creating a slipstream and you will encounter less wind resistance allowing you to reach greater speeds. Being behind also makes it easier to catch your opponent off guard, and makes it easier to observe when they begin their sprint.
wouldn't there be a benefit in just going as fast as you can from the beginning? Like if the blue guy in front just booked it, wouldn't the other guy have a hard time catching him?
they are sprinters, they want to shorten the distance as short as possible to the finish line before they sprint. Theres a lot of factors in it, its all psychological what happened there. The Italian wanted the german to get into the front, I'm not sure why, but I'm guessing, its something to do with slipstreaming (italian guy can slipstream easier with the east german in front therefore using less energy to get in front), also another factor is that who ever is behind can do a surprise sprint, like on the video, the german dude kept looking back watching out when the italian is going to strike. But he looses his sight and the italian quickly sprinted ahead and you can notice a great distance between those two within milliseconds because the german took time to respond.
You will just tire out and they will beat you when its world level they are going to be evenly matched really so that wont work as its easier for the guy behind with less resistance.
Once I understood the strategy My mind wandered... why couldn't be a motorsport with this in it? Modified funny cars! Too slow and you stall, drafting, flames, etc. But the bikes are just fine. The German dude is a beast. Thx for the post.
@jcn9122 Basically if one were to haul ass straight from the start, the other guy could draft on the guys tail for 3 laps, not using much energy and just letting the dude at the front do all the work, once they were coming around the last corner, he could use all the energy he had saved and destroy the other guy, as he would've used all of his energy already. Some people do take the jump early and don't muck about with the standing still part, sometimes it doesn't work, sometimes it doesn't
@imdavid123 Thanks for the heads up on that. To be fair though, I only found this video thanks to another reddit thread - a TIL from over a year ago. Cheers!
I never understood this but now I know that both riders want to draft behind the other and overtake when the other runs out of puff or gets dead legs from fighting the wind resistance all the way.
When it comes to sprints, whos better off? A tall rider who has more leg length to height ratio? Or the much smaller, lighter Italian, who has only avge leg lenght for his height?
THE AERODYNAMICS!! THE AERODYNAMICS!! (If either one floors it, then the other one can ride in the slipstream, expend less effort, and pass at the last second.)
Wow, it's ridiculous how many people don't understand something so simple. The announcers explained it pretty comprehensively.
Playful Danter never underestimate human stupidity
People who have never ridden track have no clue how challenging and fast it is.
I've been a sport motorcyclist, skier, snowboarder and cyclist since i was a little kid.
Nothing scares me like track racing.
This video is a virtuoso performance. I love the juicer overdevelopment, too.
"The world record for standing still on a bicycle is just over 3 hours." Me: Oh god...what have I gotten myself into
So for those who dont understand ill say it as easly as possible. The reason the stop is because before the last lap you want to be in 2nd place so you can get behind the 1st place so as to make the wind hit you less. The way the german won was by doing this, He was behind but then used his fresher legs at the last minute, sometimes it doesnt work because the 1st place gets to ahead.
there is less drag when you are the second rider, which means you can gain more speed during the last 200 because the first rider is basically taking all the opposing wind, that way the 2nd rider can sling shot much easier and steal first when needed.
A better explanation is using his opponents draft to conserve energy
I can't even imagine how people can enjoy watching an entire event of these guys just ambling around a track like this.
No worse than watching poker or esports.
@@JustSujC ...or GOLF!!
I don't understand why people don't get it. They try to get the opponent in front of them so in the final sprint they only have to follow and take over position. It's easier than staying in front. It is not a time trial, it's only important who finishes first.
That moment when Golinelli dives down the slope after 5.30 is beautiful.
This is how wild animals mate.
Phil Liggit could describe paint peeling in the dark and still make it interesting, PHIL!!!!!!!!
This was actually incredibly intriguing. I'd love to see it added to the summer Olympics, definitely something I would watch.
This is probably the most fascinating sport I have ever watched.
Its the dumbest thing ive ever seen lmal
As a former cyclist, this video had me on the edge of my seat the whole time. I miss this sport terribly.
Great stuff. Funny how some people don't understand this sport.
this is the best video I've ever seen
That was completely enchanting. I can only hope that someday I can film a scene with that level of suspense.
You won't.
wow that was so mindblowing! i could watch this all day
At first I was like "When are they doing something..." Then at the end I was like "Holy shit that was amazing."
Phil Liggett: The Voice of Cycling
This had me completely hypnotized.
man i love psychological battle
@xxxDAPROBLEMxxx the commentator also helps! great work there!
at one point it just turns into a track standing competition
Wow, that was an absolutely fantastic spring.
I love watching match sprinting
2023 just watch it ...amazing
For obvious reasons, the rules have been changed to forbid prolonged standstills (or track stands). There may be no more than two standstills in a sprint and they may take no more than 30 seconds each.
i can't believe I actually watched all of this
The last bit had me on the edge of my seat!
lol, I recognize Phill Liggett from the tour de france on OLN.
The announcers don't seem to understand it either. Simply, there are tactical advantages to being in front OR behind, depending on you preference, but either has to be done exactly right. It takes so much power to make a bicycle go 70kph it can only be done for about 4 or 5 seconds, if you can get a run up in the slipstream at that speed a weaker rider can sometimes edge past, the trick is doing it so it happens at the finish line.
that was surprisingly full of suspense! i like this sport!
Interesting fact: This was before the german reunification as Hübner was still an east german citizen at that time. Hence he was the only, first and last professional winner of a sports trophy in communist Germany.
wtf are you talking about? East Germany won 215 gold medals at the Olympics, 324 World Cup medals, and 182 European championships.
@@plape1344
They were all officially regarded as amateurs.
Hübner took part as a professional.
@@xwind1970 Yes, I am kind of surprised that he was riding the PRO Match Sprint, instead of the amateur Match Sprints.
('93 was the first year that there was a UCI 'open' World Track Championships, where it was just all elite riders, professional and otherwise. The pros then even got to ride 1000 meters less distance for their Pursuit event when this happened, from 5000 meters down to 4000 meters.)
But then again, it was always said that the Iron Curtain/Soviet Block supposedly amateur Olympic sports athletes were totally 'pros' anyway, so yeah, it 'works'.
Holy fuck that was intense.
@xOCPx rear sprocket is bolted directly to the wheel, so, their legs.
That was great!
Still great
@Inimoulleb lol true but that's why this is a sprinting competition and not a time trial.
have the rules now changed so that you can not stop...maybe forward motion at all times? this is mental
hillbilly067 No. Yet, the maximum of standing still is at 30 seconds.
u know i started life as a road cyclist..but then something happend to me like 2 years ago...for the first time i did upper body tranning and holly crap, i can bench now 300 pounds im 6'1 200 pounds it sucks to find your calling too late in life...cycling is beautiful, i hope it survives all the problems and will live on...
the final sprint is indeed non-human. really impressive, epic game
The person in second before the last turn usually wins because they are able to draft the person in front of them, meaning they have less wind resistance enabling them to reach a higher top speed before the last straight away. The rest of the race is just a fight for positioning to be in second before the last turn.
@TheFreshBattery They didn't make a move earlier so that the drag(Or is it called drift) space created behind the one leading doesn't come in play. Which means no matter what first person do, the second one won't be behind that person during last 100-200 meters of the race. And since it's easier riding in that space/partial vacuum created behind the leader,the second will be less tired than the leader. Thus can easily end the lead in the last part of the race.
So to kill that factor.
So what's the point of all those laps? Why not just do 1 or 2 laps?
It's the struggle to have the position of surprise (2nd)
Thats one reason, but i would not say it is the main reason. The real reason is to gain the element of suprise, as stated more than once by the commentator: 0:53 if you watch the video Huebner is actually on the front just before the sprint is initiated, and I highly doubt he had any intention of taking 2nd wheel into the sprint as this would have given him the disadvantage of having to come around the other rider.yes they track stand to gain 2nd wheel and more importantly the element of surpise
@dgrome In a running race there is no significant slipstream effect, in cycling there is.
@footielocker No. There's no drafting in track, drafting is to save energy on distance rides, he was in the back so he could have surprise on the sprint.
"Well, the world record for standing still on a bicycle is actually over three hours"
That guy had determination.
Scary stuff! And what a standoff! Psychologically and physically!
By being at the back, when the sprint starts (this can be at any time during the race) it's much easer for the rear person to get up to speed because the front guy is doing the hard work breaking the wind. The rear person can get up to speed in the slip stream and have more energy saved for sprinting past the now tired front person.
They still do this in the olympics
And it's one of the best events there is!
What a great clip.
The commentator explains this. The sprinting isn't about time, it's about who finishes first.
It's sort of a game of cat and mouse... They are each trying to surprise the other, get the advantage etc.
Then suddenly they'll make a move and try to be the first across the line.
I like it like this just builds up tension...
@IIkingdomII A rider that sprints at the beginning will get tired, and his opponent will be able to sit in the slipstream and keep pace quite easily, before overtaking in the final sprint. Hence the need for the psychological games, and the quick push at the end.
Did you not watch the video? The announcer explains in detail.
Chris Hoy of GB was involved in a competitive Sprint Race including a 6 minute trackstand ...
they both want to be in the back so that they can draft (less wind resistance)
simply amazing
If you want to show someone what match sprint/track racing is all about.. this is the video to play. I had a gaggle of people over my shoulder at work watching in awe. Awesome clip. East Germany and steroids made things exciting :) . Don't care what anyone says.
@JenkoTV brakes aren't allowed on velodromes for exactly that reason
@tobiausneurobi It is best to be in back (for most riders) because you have the advantage of seeing both your opponent and further up the track. Man one is trying to look back and pay attention to holding his line. Man two can take man one by surprise while they aren't looking.
its not about getting the draft in this case. This sort of sprint takes a lot of energy and you wear out in seconds, the person in the back can start accelerating without the person in front noticing for a split second, that can be the difference leading to victory. It may seem like he is behind 3 feet but in the time it may take the leader to notice the trailing rider could have accelerated to top speed.
that was amazing, i had no idea this went on in bike races
Ok maybe I'm stupid, but I STILL don't understand why it was such a big dsal to be in the back. Wasn't it just about having the faster last 200m?
This is brilliant.
Came here from RT Podcast #178
This is the best duel you can imagine next to gun duels.
That is the most interesting sport I have ever seen. I'm not joking.
That was fucking fascinating, not even kidding.
here we GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
This is intense
@antifolkhero It's just like how in nascar racing it is an advantage to be just behind your opponent, this way they are creating a slipstream and you will encounter less wind resistance allowing you to reach greater speeds. Being behind also makes it easier to catch your opponent off guard, and makes it easier to observe when they begin their sprint.
wouldn't there be a benefit in just going as fast as you can from the beginning? Like if the blue guy in front just booked it, wouldn't the other guy have a hard time catching him?
they are sprinters, they want to shorten the distance as short as possible to the finish line before they sprint. Theres a lot of factors in it, its all psychological what happened there. The Italian wanted the german to get into the front, I'm not sure why, but I'm guessing, its something to do with slipstreaming (italian guy can slipstream easier with the east german in front therefore using less energy to get in front), also another factor is that who ever is behind can do a surprise sprint, like on the video, the german dude kept looking back watching out when the italian is going to strike. But he looses his sight and the italian quickly sprinted ahead and you can notice a great distance between those two within milliseconds because the german took time to respond.
fuck off, creed
You will just tire out and they will beat you when its world level they are going to be evenly matched really so that wont work as its easier for the guy behind with less resistance.
the best explaination i got about sprint event's strategies @taras ija
Once I understood the strategy My mind wandered... why couldn't be a motorsport with this in it? Modified funny cars! Too slow and you stall, drafting, flames, etc.
But the bikes are just fine. The German dude is a beast. Thx for the post.
Golinelli's move at 5:30 was sick.
hahah the comment at the end where the announcer stated he would be appearing in rocky 6 was the business.
@jcn9122 Basically if one were to haul ass straight from the start, the other guy could draft on the guys tail for 3 laps, not using much energy and just letting the dude at the front do all the work, once they were coming around the last corner, he could use all the energy he had saved and destroy the other guy, as he would've used all of his energy already. Some people do take the jump early and don't muck about with the standing still part, sometimes it doesn't work, sometimes it doesn't
I can't believe it I've watched the whole video!
@imdavid123 Thanks for the heads up on that. To be fair though, I only found this video thanks to another reddit thread - a TIL from over a year ago. Cheers!
this is actually very interesting. i like it
I don't know what is more preposterous, track bike racing, or ROCKY VI
that was actually kinda interesting...never have seen this before...
Great commentator.
I never understood this but now I know that both riders want to draft behind the other and overtake when the other runs out of puff or gets dead legs from fighting the wind resistance all the way.
Just as exciting as watching soccer.
Sorry, what is soccer?
One of the announcers sounds just like Eric Idle. Very appropriate for what is at times a pretty bizarre sport...
You don't want to be in front. The rider in the rear can then use your draft to go faster and pass you.
When it comes to sprints, whos better off? A tall rider who has more leg length to height ratio? Or the much smaller, lighter Italian, who has only avge leg lenght for his height?
holy shit! that is crazy! Thx rt! :D
As someone who has watched a good number of velo races, I actually understand this.
I was used to do the same in mario kart - just to get redshell/star.
The slow going and "cat and mouse" is Sooo nerve wracking!!
THE AERODYNAMICS!! THE AERODYNAMICS!! (If either one floors it, then the other one can ride in the slipstream, expend less effort, and pass at the last second.)
@PoohNanny There are races like that. It's called a Chariot race. Not too many tactics just balls out speed. They are pretty boring to race.
That last lap was just impossibly fast! I had no idea they could speed up so quickly.
65 km/h - holy shit
@dgrome saving your energy for the final stretch
Three laps
You save all your energy for the last leg of the race.
That's about it.
@Inimoulleb and really easy to beat. when they start they go hard and are trying to get away from eachother. its just a difference of when it starts
exiting stuff, why aren't all sports like this? i don't understand why.