Yo, I miss the old days of UA-cam where "I'm not going to restart recording because that's a slippery slope" was the usual attitude. That's what gave UA-cam its charm. Now it's too much like TV. Love ya Alyssa!
I left CAB a while ago. It’s funny how consistent these cases go. Like you, I also had a noticeable midline shift after the start of CAB, and similarly, my lvi dentist said that everything’s okay and it’s centered with my face now. However my subsequent orthodontist picked up on this shifted midline without even telling him. So you are not wrong for thinking that, and from 10:31, it’s very clear that your upper front teeth got shifted to the left side of the screen. Also about the retraction, me and every other honest AGGA patient reported significant retraction of the front teeth after the molars get protracted. You are not wrong that the heavy weight of the molars are being pulled at least partially by the front teeth. I am sure your front teeth will retract even more. Anyways I’m not telling you this to be a Debbie downer, but it’s important to be aware of what’s going on because these lvi dentists will literally gaslight patients like crazy and keep moving the goalpost until the end of treatment. In my opinion you should leave CAB before you get retracted anymore, do MSE or some other type of expander for lateral expansion, then finish up with orthodontics (by actual orthodontists) to close the gaps without further retraction. Good luck and you can contact me if you need any guidance
Hey Edward - thank you for your thoughtful and measured comment! I’d love to hear more about your experience if you’re interested in sharing. Specifically: how would a “regular” orthodontist manage to close the gaps without any further retraction? My understanding has always been that moving molars forward is a quite difficult and unnatural undertaking, and that the CAB are the best option we have available at this time to do so, but that some retraction is still likely to happen. I’d be very curious to hear about a better option that would avoid any retraction at all (and frankly, I imagine my dentist would be curious to know as well! I don’t think he wants me to experience retraction any more than I want to). Re: MSE - I don’t think I would consider MSE treatment. I don’t particularly need lateral expansion, and certainly don’t need it badly enough to undergo that intensive of a process. My goal with AGGA has always been forward expansion. As far as the midline shift, I’ll have to find some old pictures for comparison. It does look pretty noticeable to me (and apparently to you too), but my dentist isn’t wrong about my upper lip frenulum - it does exactly line up with my midline, which would indicate that it’s where it’s supposed to be. Thank you again for your comment, and please do share more about your experience if you’re willing!
@@alyssaluck an orthodontist would’ve used TADs as anchor to mesialize the back teeth instead of using front teeth as anchors. It is really not that difficult or complicated, but to an lvi dentist it may be since they haven’t been trained to do so. If you manage to convince your lvi dentist do so, he’ll probably refer you to an oral surgeon, unlike an orthodontist who does it themselves, and even then they are not very knowledgeable on working with TADs. CAB is just glorified braces with an FRLA, most skilled orthodontist can complete the goals of CAB, and at a much lower price point. I don’t know how much you were charged for CAB, but mine tried to charge me $1250, and another orthodontist I consulted with quoted me about a third of that for braces with TADs. Also about the posterior open bite that is camaflauged with the acrylic molar pads, lvi dentists are trained to resolve this by extruding the molars, instead of intruding the overerupted incisors. The problem with this it will increase the vertical dimension of the occlusion, which makes your face longer. These lvi providers are general dentists and most don’t have the knowledge or even the resources to finish the orthodontics in an ideal way. About MSE, I wasn’t interested at first for the reasons you gave, but I’m finding there are many advantages to MSE. You get a tremendous amount of expansion in only 2-3 months, it increases your tongue space like crazy which makes mewing more natural, it instantly improves your nasal congestion and breathing by a lot, and it gives an opportunity to do forward pull headgear, which has been observed to advance the whole maxilla by up to 3-4mm in adults, unlike AGGA where the mm’s of gap include distalization of the back teeth. I know this is hard to hear but a number of the mm’s of AGGA gap is just the back teeth tilted back, that’s why on your x ray you didn’t have the same amount of room between the roots as between the crowns, because the back teeth tilted back. I know because that’s how my x ray looked, and I’m sure this is the case with everyone else. Regarding the midline shift, the upper lip frenulum is a false indicator because it is connected to the gum between your upper central incisors. If your front teeth shift one way, it will take the frenulum right along with it. You have to look at hard tissue indicators, not soft tissue indicators. If you look at your cbct and compare the center of the nasal spine to the center of your front teeth, I’m sure it’s misaligned. This is how my orthodontist identified my shift without me even telling him, it’s pretty obvious on a cbct. Anyways good luck
@@Colin-cb8hv ah, of course. That makes sense. Thank you for the thorough reply - you’ve given me lots to think about. I wish I’d had all this info before I started CAB - it would’ve been awesome to be able to maintain all the growth I had with AGGA! But yeah, as far as some of the gaps coming from moving the molars back - I figured as much. And thank you for the explanation about the frenulum - that makes sense, and does make me want to seek a second opinion. Can you share what your process was for seeking second opinions and ultimately leaving CAB? How did you find your orthodontist? What did you tell them? What did you tell your LVI dentist after you’d decided to leave their care?
@@alyssaluck for me I was at the start of CAB and I noticed retraction early on. After my lvi dentist refused to use TADs and basically couldn’t resolve a large cant that was produced, I sought out orthodontists. I found one that was willing to finish me with TADs. Then I just realized I might as well do MSE before I wrap up orthodontics for more tongue space, to resolve my nasal congestion, and get skeletal forward growth with reverse headgear. I literally just googled local orthodontists and consulted with at least a dozen of them, and also used recommendations from other AGGA patients online and I choose the orthodontist that treatment plan that I agreed with. Many of them will suggest retracting and surgery since the front teeth may not be fully in bone, but there are some that will just give you MSE and possibly a bone graft if you need one. You can just tell your lvi dentist you want MSE maybe you can work out a partial refund
@@Colin-cb8hv May I ask, Edward, MSE seems to be the go-to for alot of people, but what if your lower arches are narrow. What then? I thought you were limited to the width of your lower arches as a guide?
Hey, thank you for documenting everything and sharing your information as well as your concerns. You're doing amazing sharing your personal thoughts etc and I know that it's not easy. Through all of this treatment, how are you feeling? How satisfied are you? PS: concerning tongue ties, my speech pathologist tells me to touch the tip of my tongue on the front part of the palate without lifting the bottom of the mouth, only the tongue. Maybe try to only move the tongue up to touch that spot and not move the bottom of the mouth up with it.
Thank you so much! As far as how I’m feeling - I felt great after AGGA, and was really pleased with the forward growth I got. Since then I’ve been increasingly worried at the regression/retraction of my front teeth from where they were when I finished AGGA. But like I said in the video, even with significant regression, I’ll end up on a better spot than I started! And I’m very grateful that I haven’t had any signs of looseness or otherwise endangerment of my front teeth. Re: tongue tie - I can actually touch the tip of my tongue to the top/front of my palate with my mouth wide open! So like I said in the video, my range of motion really isn’t awful; mostly I just can’t reach the back corners of my mouth as well as I imagine I should be able to, so that necessitates more involvement of my cheeks/lips when chewing than is probably ideal.
Alyssa understands the importance of dental alignment and symmetry in relation to health. I wish many other dental "professionals" thought, and were taught, the same.
Yo, I miss the old days of UA-cam where "I'm not going to restart recording because that's a slippery slope" was the usual attitude. That's what gave UA-cam its charm. Now it's too much like TV. Love ya Alyssa!
Omg thanks Freddie❤️❤️ I’m glad you appreciate my no-frills (read: lazy) UA-cam strategy.
@@alyssaluck love it!
Loved the longer video! Keep them coming :)
So pretty
I left CAB a while ago. It’s funny how consistent these cases go. Like you, I also had a noticeable midline shift after the start of CAB, and similarly, my lvi dentist said that everything’s okay and it’s centered with my face now. However my subsequent orthodontist picked up on this shifted midline without even telling him. So you are not wrong for thinking that, and from 10:31, it’s very clear that your upper front teeth got shifted to the left side of the screen. Also about the retraction, me and every other honest AGGA patient reported significant retraction of the front teeth after the molars get protracted. You are not wrong that the heavy weight of the molars are being pulled at least partially by the front teeth. I am sure your front teeth will retract even more. Anyways I’m not telling you this to be a Debbie downer, but it’s important to be aware of what’s going on because these lvi dentists will literally gaslight patients like crazy and keep moving the goalpost until the end of treatment. In my opinion you should leave CAB before you get retracted anymore, do MSE or some other type of expander for lateral expansion, then finish up with orthodontics (by actual orthodontists) to close the gaps without further retraction. Good luck and you can contact me if you need any guidance
Hey Edward - thank you for your thoughtful and measured comment! I’d love to hear more about your experience if you’re interested in sharing. Specifically: how would a “regular” orthodontist manage to close the gaps without any further retraction? My understanding has always been that moving molars forward is a quite difficult and unnatural undertaking, and that the CAB are the best option we have available at this time to do so, but that some retraction is still likely to happen. I’d be very curious to hear about a better option that would avoid any retraction at all (and frankly, I imagine my dentist would be curious to know as well! I don’t think he wants me to experience retraction any more than I want to).
Re: MSE - I don’t think I would consider MSE treatment. I don’t particularly need lateral expansion, and certainly don’t need it badly enough to undergo that intensive of a process. My goal with AGGA has always been forward expansion.
As far as the midline shift, I’ll have to find some old pictures for comparison. It does look pretty noticeable to me (and apparently to you too), but my dentist isn’t wrong about my upper lip frenulum - it does exactly line up with my midline, which would indicate that it’s where it’s supposed to be.
Thank you again for your comment, and please do share more about your experience if you’re willing!
@@alyssaluck an orthodontist would’ve used TADs as anchor to mesialize the back teeth instead of using front teeth as anchors. It is really not that difficult or complicated, but to an lvi dentist it may be since they haven’t been trained to do so. If you manage to convince your lvi dentist do so, he’ll probably refer you to an oral surgeon, unlike an orthodontist who does it themselves, and even then they are not very knowledgeable on working with TADs. CAB is just glorified braces with an FRLA, most skilled orthodontist can complete the goals of CAB, and at a much lower price point. I don’t know how much you were charged for CAB, but mine tried to charge me $1250, and another orthodontist I consulted with quoted me about a third of that for braces with TADs. Also about the posterior open bite that is camaflauged with the acrylic molar pads, lvi dentists are trained to resolve this by extruding the molars, instead of intruding the overerupted incisors. The problem with this it will increase the vertical dimension of the occlusion, which makes your face longer. These lvi providers are general dentists and most don’t have the knowledge or even the resources to finish the orthodontics in an ideal way.
About MSE, I wasn’t interested at first for the reasons you gave, but I’m finding there are many advantages to MSE. You get a tremendous amount of expansion in only 2-3 months, it increases your tongue space like crazy which makes mewing more natural, it instantly improves your nasal congestion and breathing by a lot, and it gives an opportunity to do forward pull headgear, which has been observed to advance the whole maxilla by up to 3-4mm in adults, unlike AGGA where the mm’s of gap include distalization of the back teeth. I know this is hard to hear but a number of the mm’s of AGGA gap is just the back teeth tilted back, that’s why on your x ray you didn’t have the same amount of room between the roots as between the crowns, because the back teeth tilted back. I know because that’s how my x ray looked, and I’m sure this is the case with everyone else.
Regarding the midline shift, the upper lip frenulum is a false indicator because it is connected to the gum between your upper central incisors. If your front teeth shift one way, it will take the frenulum right along with it. You have to look at hard tissue indicators, not soft tissue indicators. If you look at your cbct and compare the center of the nasal spine to the center of your front teeth, I’m sure it’s misaligned. This is how my orthodontist identified my shift without me even telling him, it’s pretty obvious on a cbct. Anyways good luck
@@Colin-cb8hv ah, of course. That makes sense. Thank you for the thorough reply - you’ve given me lots to think about. I wish I’d had all this info before I started CAB - it would’ve been awesome to be able to maintain all the growth I had with AGGA! But yeah, as far as some of the gaps coming from moving the molars back - I figured as much. And thank you for the explanation about the frenulum - that makes sense, and does make me want to seek a second opinion.
Can you share what your process was for seeking second opinions and ultimately leaving CAB? How did you find your orthodontist? What did you tell them? What did you tell your LVI dentist after you’d decided to leave their care?
@@alyssaluck for me I was at the start of CAB and I noticed retraction early on. After my lvi dentist refused to use TADs and basically couldn’t resolve a large cant that was produced, I sought out orthodontists. I found one that was willing to finish me with TADs. Then I just realized I might as well do MSE before I wrap up orthodontics for more tongue space, to resolve my nasal congestion, and get skeletal forward growth with reverse headgear. I literally just googled local orthodontists and consulted with at least a dozen of them, and also used recommendations from other AGGA patients online and I choose the orthodontist that treatment plan that I agreed with. Many of them will suggest retracting and surgery since the front teeth may not be fully in bone, but there are some that will just give you MSE and possibly a bone graft if you need one. You can just tell your lvi dentist you want MSE maybe you can work out a partial refund
@@Colin-cb8hv May I ask, Edward, MSE seems to be the go-to for alot of people, but what if your lower arches are narrow. What then? I thought you were limited to the width of your lower arches as a guide?
Hey, thank you for documenting everything and sharing your information as well as your concerns. You're doing amazing sharing your personal thoughts etc and I know that it's not easy. Through all of this treatment, how are you feeling? How satisfied are you? PS: concerning tongue ties, my speech pathologist tells me to touch the tip of my tongue on the front part of the palate without lifting the bottom of the mouth, only the tongue. Maybe try to only move the tongue up to touch that spot and not move the bottom of the mouth up with it.
Thank you so much! As far as how I’m feeling - I felt great after AGGA, and was really pleased with the forward growth I got. Since then I’ve been increasingly worried at the regression/retraction of my front teeth from where they were when I finished AGGA. But like I said in the video, even with significant regression, I’ll end up on a better spot than I started! And I’m very grateful that I haven’t had any signs of looseness or otherwise endangerment of my front teeth.
Re: tongue tie - I can actually touch the tip of my tongue to the top/front of my palate with my mouth wide open! So like I said in the video, my range of motion really isn’t awful; mostly I just can’t reach the back corners of my mouth as well as I imagine I should be able to, so that necessitates more involvement of my cheeks/lips when chewing than is probably ideal.
Is your bite fully closed?
I think you are addicted to orthodontics
I think it's important that she documents a journey using an appliance that she wants to help her. Orthodontics like this isn't a short journey.
Ha, I wish!! Then at least I’d be getting some dopamine hits out of this excruciatingly lengthy process.
Alyssa understands the importance of dental alignment and symmetry in relation to health. I wish many other dental "professionals" thought, and were taught, the same.