I changed from SPD to SPD-SL...and was one of the best changed I made. You are just so much more connected to the bike. When using SPD I had the feeling everytime I went from pushing to pulling there was a small travel of my shoe relative to the pedal...with SPD SL im just connected very fix and there is no motion in the vertical direction, and I believe this is more efficient. It is surely more comfortable for me. And as the sideways float is also much more limited, sideways movement has also become less. On my MTB I still have the SPD, the few time I ride this it always makes me happy I switched to SPD-SL on my road bike. The only big negative point is the price of the pedals (I got my 105 pedals pretty cheap for ca. 50€) (and a bit the wear of the plastic cleats). I surely will never go back to SPD on my road bike...in the near future I'll test the blue cleats instead of the yellow and see if there are still comfortable enough for me...
Had the same feeling with SPD. I like SPD and use it on MTB and one of my road bikes, but this little microscopic vertical move is noticable, sometimes it even clicks. SPD-SL's don't have that annoying move/click for me.
Up to you, but several pro riders still stay at the 6 float cleats, rather than go down to the 2/0. I believe that shimano made the blues at pro request and it def feels stiffer, but if viviani and terpstra can use yellows we can too. You can always adjust your release tension as well.
6. Walking around/off the bike. This is the big difference between the two. One allows you to walk normally over long distances (mtb) and one doesn't and, in certain scenarios, is dangerous to walk around in (wet on a steep hill for example). I recently broke my arm on my bike and had to walk 3 miles to get a phone signal to call for assistance and I'm very glad I was wearing mtb shoes that day. I'm sure road shoes and pedals are more efficient, but unless you're entering the Tour de France (and let's be honest, you're not!), mtb shoes are what you need.
it isn't only about being able to walk in them or not(I mean, you can always take your shoes off to walk), also about feet/leg anatomy. I need to use road pedals, because mtb pedals are too small for me, and so I can move my knee to much, which can lead to injuries. So you need to take way more into account than performance, and being able to walk. One of the main raisons I'm not allowed to ride my MTB anymore, is because of the pedals, and because you need your knees more to keep your balance. So I need to use road pedals for my health actiully, so you don't just need road pedals to ride the Tour de France, and you don't always need MTBshoes...
I dont race anymore so its doesnt bother me if SPD/MTB shoes are less efficient ..just like i dont use a 52 big ring ..can anyone spin out 52/11 who isnt racing ...I use 34/11 as my biggest gear :-)
I ride MTB and road and use SPD M8000 and M9000 respectively. With this: I don't have to use dedicated shoes on each bike, I have the same "feel" specially on release, and the best reason why I use SPD's is that I can walk quietly in and out of the house and my wife will have no idea that I went out cycling ;-)
I've considered spds for the reason of having 'normal-ish' shoes. but believe it or not, i still use cages on my commuter! actually i like them and I can use ANY shoe. i do like the idea though and still may go that direction one day.
Totally agree. The fact that SPD are double sided is a huge benefit in the real world - never looking down / fumbling pulling away from the lights or in traffic etc. Secondly, walking around off the bike - real world cycling. Road shoes outside of racing for me are pointless.
MTB pedals are also great for commuting, where you're constantly stopping at traffic lights etc and unclipping. Then when you arrive at work you can walk around without falling over :-) For my next road bike I'm going to get some PD-A600 pedals. Only 286g (same as 105 road pedals), clip on one side, small platform on the other so you can still push off if you miss the clip in. Then I don't have to shell out for another pair of shoes.
those PD-A600 are top notch pedals in every aspect, i dont belive there is better price/performance ratio spd pedal out there+they look pretty aero too haha :D
Well... I use one sided SPD Pedals with a rounded bottom. If you're used to other road pedals or just trained getting in and out a little bit than you don't need to look down. You stop, the cleat turns to the bottom. So you know to turn the pedal with your toes before clipping in. Same with retro clips really.
I strictly went SPD because I ride Mountain and Rode, I dont want 2 different shoes for 2 different clipless systems... And yes the shoes being walkable in are a huge plus
Totally agree. I've done the same 100 mile mixed surface races with both my Specialized Torch/Ultegra road pedals and my Giro VR90/XTR MTB pedals. I didn't notice any real advantages or disadvantages in efficiency, however VR90's do feel a little comfortable on really long rides. Honestly, stuff like the kind of meal I eat beforehand or my choice of tires has much more of an effect on my performance than my pedal/shoe system.
I think the BIG difference is the ease of clipping in and out. I ride XC and race and I ride road and race......you clip in and out way more on a MTB in general. Maybe not so much in XC MTB due to the courses. The float you get on a MTB pedal is important as you move the bike under you a lot more in MTB/XC riding. I guess it's just the different natures of each type of riding that makes the real difference. Nice video!
I use SPD's simply because they are usually double sided. No more twiddling the pedal to get the right angle to clip in. I found the smaller surface area tends to press on the ball of the foot after a while so I switched to SPD pedals with the larger surface area and they seem to fit the bill perfectly.
I switched to SPD for road and I'm never looking back. I noticed way better power transfer when climbing. And they are Bullitt proof! no wearing out cleats. Whish I had done it much sooner.
Having been riding with the Look pedals since the late 1980's I am finally happy again. Look did bring back the Look city, some shoes for look that can be used to walk with. For me the benefit is that all the bikes share the same pedals also on the recumbent I can now ride without a spare pare of shoes. I prefer look because the are lighter
I have ridden many mtb and road pedals and shoes. Currently riding mtb/spd pedals on my road bike. I think you are correct that the efficiency is more from the shoe than the pedal. If you think of the physics, if the shoe is infinitely stiff, and the connection to the pedal has no play, then the size of the platform should be superfluous. In the past my problem was with big heavy bulky mtb shoes, but that is not the case as much now. On day long rides, having the ability to walk in your bike shoes is a bonus. Using lace up Giro mtb shoes.
I don't think that is true at all. It would be very difficult to clip in if you had to compress the lugs on the bottom of the shoes. I know for a fact that on my Sidi Dominators the cleat is all that contacts the pedal.
Might not be a problem with your specific system. I had to trim a cheap winter shoe to make the lugs fit, even with the shim provided with the Crankbros Candy. On my (older, camoflage) Dominators to make them work with the same pedals I had to use the contact shims that increases the thickness of the pedal ends to make them meet the pedal lugs better. Directly from the manufacturer's website FAQ: " I'm having difficulty clipping into the pedals. Many mountain bike shoes have thick, variable tread. This can make it difficult to clip into some pedals. If you are having difficulty clipping into crankbrothers pedals, try using the shims provided with the pedals and cleats. The shim is a thin plastic wafer that goes under the cleat. It pushes the cleat out from the shoe sole to allow easier engagement with the pedal. If this does not work, try slightly trimming the shoe tread (in the contact area only). Use a sharp blade or sanding wheel, and please go a little at a time. The tread should make contact with the pedal, but not so much that the tread compresses (which causes difficulty clipping in). " Cyclocross exposes these issues more than MTB because there's so much dismounting and remounting. I'll admit I haven't reached a perfect solution - I am using the Szyzr system now because it's as solid as a road pedal - there's no contact with the shoe at all, not even the area where the cleat attaches. But it doesn't work in freezing temperature snow or mud - can't clear that packing debris as well as the the eggbeaters or Candy. Normally only an issue for 1/2 races per season. Or if you're visually oriented (hope this link works) bicycles.stackexchange.com/questions/21765/my-spd-shoes-cleats-wont-clip-in-to-my-spd-pedals
crank bros pedals always seemed less solid that way to me. it seems like they're designed for your shoe to fit on the ends of the pedal to the left and right of the cleat attachment. (they even sell spacer rings to go on the end of egg-beaters to increase the diameter for a better fit. Judging by the grooves that the bars dug into my shoes, the cleat isn't taking all of the weight. on SPDs, it seems that the cleat is supporting it fully, and any other pedal features are superfluous (unless riding a flexy shoe)
i have spd pedals on all my bikes, this include my track bike. if you blind folded cyclists and just slipped their foot into a super stiff carbon sole shoes already seated, i can gaurantee you they will not be able to tell the difference.
As noted earlier, and as a bike fitter also, the real difference I note is the lateral, side-to-side stability of typical road pedals that provides a much more stable platform for supporting wedging and foot stability and thus knee tracking. For some people that, due to joint alignment, need some rocking as they rotate through the pedal stroke, the more stable spd-sl pedals don't work well.
If I may add my 2 cents to the topic (even though I have only used the SPD variant), I think the difference/advantage isn't enough for the vast majority of riders. Given a stiff enough shoe, the efficiency will be the same, as the shoe and pedal become one "solid" object where you apply force by pedalling. What I think could make any difference is precisely how "solid" the connection between them is and how much play it allows to the rider, that you covered in your "cleat float" video. Due to the mechanical contact between the cleat and the pedal, road specific pedals may have less cleat float, which is good to ensure a correct position, but could also lead to fatigue. So, to each its own... But I think if a rider that feels more comfortable in SPD or SPD-SL, it will probably do so in either road bike or mountain bike, so just stick with the one you prefer and forget about road specific or mtb specific pedals. That is just a way for shimano to have you buy 2 different pedals and 2 different shoe types if you ride both styles.
The only downside I've found to riding standard SPD is the lack of road oriented shoes for SPD. They're generally more focused to gravel or MTB. That's always a bummer.
My experience has been that riding a petal with a bigger platform decreases the chance of getting hot spots during long rides which could slow you down.
I’ve recently switched over my road bike pedals from SPD-SL’s to XTR Trail spd’s, and it’s nice not having to flip the pedal to clip side. Clip in is faster and safer in traffic.
I said that for yrs. when they came out with aero pedals everybody points their feet at different angles so that a tough ones to sell! Nice job on the presentation!
I spent loads of money on shoes and peddles, all a big mistake. MTB shoes and SPDs are more suited to my cycling life. However I do like the adjust-ability of Speed Play peddles, if you have knee issues you can really dial in your position.
My personal experience, I was using my road shoe with an SPD pedal and adapter. Whenever I failed to clip in the SPD scratched/chewed my carbon sole much more than a SPD-R in the same scenario. It's a minor point, but keeping my shoes just a little tidier was enough for me to switch when it was time for new pedals anyway. Another argument that could be made specifically for when using SPD on a road shoe was when you do walk on the SPD-R, the plastic damages the floor less
I changed from road pedals to SPD about 8 years ago, and wear Enduro MTB shoes with carbon insole. More comfortable and efficient than road shoes & pedals.
Shannon Trainer Efficiency was a bad word choice. If the sole is very stiff then the shape of the pedal doesn't matter since either way the exact same force is transmitted through a stiff material to the pedal spindle. So neither one is more or less efficient, assuming stiff soles. SPD for me is a bit easier and quicker to clip in. This is because of dual sided entry on Shimano XTR pedals. So what else is there? Weight and aerodynamics. Road shoes are a little lighter at the same price point. Any aero advantage to road shoes is a very marginal gain. Finally there is a lot to be said for being able to walk if you have to. In return for that I accept the condemnation of Velominati everywhere.
Personally, if I going to use road pedals I'll use Speedplays. They're double-sided and have walkable rubber aero covers that protects the cleat. They also come with a pair of screw in rubber caps for walking in mud, not to mention that the float is adjustable. The only to downsize is price($214 for a pair of pedals and cleats) and maintenance(you have to apply a small amount of dry lube in the cavity and the two metal springs on the cleats before every ride and force new grease into the pedals every year with a grease gun, ua-cam.com/video/tJk_pbtOsB4/v-deo.html).
I've got both spd (mountain) and spd-sl (road) and shoes with carbon soles. With carbon soles there is not much difference if you are just concerned with power (flex in the shoe). However, I use my road shoes with road pedals because they accommodate shims and wedges (canting the shoe correctly) and also because they are way better ventilated and have a thinner, more curved sole. For rides less than 60km or situations where I will be walking a bit, I think good quality SPD shoes with SPD ROAD pedals (like the Shimano A-520) are the best. For road riding I would not use mountain pedals like the ones shown in the video that are designed for shedding mud, as opposed to best supporting the sole, because there are better road specific SPD pedals.
Nice video. One thing that I have noticed, in regards to point 4 in the video, is that SPDs allow more femoral riotation at the hip and (presumably) elsewhere on the biomechanical chain from ankle to hip joint. Because SPDs have a narrower platform it allows the foot to rock about its longitudinal axis, this allows more external rotation of the femur for any given degree of ankle and knee flexibility, as compared to a road pedal. This can make a massive difference to a rider with hip stiffness or hip pathology.
Great videos for sure. I agree with point 4 also. The SPDs have more movement which works for my knees and hips. Being a bit less flexible, this added movement is more comfortable and natural. The ability to walk is an added bonus.
Interesting topic especially as I too use mtb spd’s on both my mtb and road bike. The pedals I use on the road bike are the Shimano Spd road version. You can only clip in on one side and have a slightly larger foot print as well. Thanks for sharing.
My knee pain after surgery forced me to try speedplay and that was a winner in terms of knee and feet comfort, safety (easy in and release) and convenience. I never thought that flexibility in the feet would mak such a difference in comfort for long rides for the knee and fee.. I would never go back.
Confirmed al of my suspicions from my own research. Soberly delivered, intelligently approached, this video has helped me to make my decision... PDA600s it is. Thank you.
I have both, and found that SPD pedals created hotspots under the balls of my feet much more quickly than Look pedals. The wider platform of the Look cleat definitely feels like I get stronger power transfer as well, maybe that is because there is a larger degree of float in the SPD pedals, but when pulling up on the pedals I feel connected to the Looks but more like I am pulling at a tiny portion of my shoe with SPDs.
There's a massive difference on my end, not all the time but for sprints for sure: when you push on a MTB pedal the contact is with the squishy lugs on the shoe (which allow you to walk and run) and pedal body. Even with the small eggbeateres from crank bros the push goes against the pedal body from the shoe lug. Take a look at your MTB shoes on the pedal. Wiggle them a bit - not left and right, but up and down in diagonal direction. The system doesn't necessarily have play per se, but there is a "squish" where the lugs deform before the force is transferred. This is well known by cyclocross racers that do all sort of things to reduce this as their shoes wear: crank bro's shims, gluing strips to the pedals, etc. Or viceversa: when sponsored shoes/pedals are too "deep", they file or cut some of the material to allow for the desired fit. This is widely understood and accepted in CX/MTB racers - and in fact one manufacturer (Speedplay) advertises itself as the only MTB system that pushes on the cleat/pedal metal interface as opposed to relying on the softer components of the system. Crank Bros pedals will even wear a groove in your sole and carbon shoes are recommended to install a metal shim to prevent wear and breakage. I have measured the effects of this interface differences: on normal, stiff road shoes (Bont as well) my measured power (crank) tops at about 1400 W. On the same bike, with MTB shoes/pedals the top is about 1200. Might not be of importance to you. Ride what's comfortable for you - I prefer the easy float and double sided Speedplay road systems, but they are very clunky for walking and if you happen to stop on dirt they'll be clogged and make it difficult to clip back in.
Rod Diaz so which pro team do you ride for and how many watts per kg can you hold for an hour? And the difference between those numbers will be irrelevant to road cycling because not even top sprinters will be able to push those watts for more then a second after a 200km stage.😉🌶🌶
200 watts difference!? That is massive. I guess you have no problem keeping your feet warm with SPDs then. 100 watts on each pedal. Even the best shoe heaters don't go that high :)
I hear you. I ride Fixed crits and I experienced the same with SPDs and it is horrible. And I really like me some Speedplay Zero track atm for the reasons of stability, power transfer and security from ripping my foot out of the pedal by accident which is a real thing for me on SPDs
I am happy, I have found your channel. Very informative and systematic approach is always welcome. Hope, you'll get more attention soon. As for me, I get used to Shimado SPD XTR pedals + shoes alike SH-XC51 with full carbon outsole. I have tried Look + some lightweight italian shoes (can't remember exactly it's brand) and can't say that there is really that big difference in performance. Road purists could think whatever they want, but oddly enough, I find stiff and steady fixed ankle on full-sized carbon platform far more comfortable, than flexible and thin-skinned road shoes. And btw, SPD MTB/CX shoes with heels, that hides cleats are much more useful in city with many crossroads, like Moscow for example.
Great video! Last year I switched from Look pedals to MTB style SPDs on my road bike and I haven't regretted it. Even if there is truth to the industry claims you list, I'd happily take the drawbacks for the ability to walk comfortably in the shoes! One more argument I've heard against SPDs is that the smaller contact area may cause more pressure and create a hot spot on the sole of the foot (surely the stiffness of the shoe also plays a part here).
Mate. This is the most comprehensive, honest, unbiased comparison I have watched so far. You have a new fan. I have had Look road pedals and cleats on road shoes for road bikes. SPD pedals and shoes for gravel bikes etc. I now have changed my road bike pedals and my gravel bike pedals to the Shimano PD-M424 pedals which are flat on one side and SPD clipless on the other. I can now ride any bike with a pair of runners or fit my mountain bike SPD clipless shoes to have a clipped in ride. Thanks for the comparison. I look forward to watching your other stuff.
I used to have the SPD's on my road bike and switched to SPD-SL. Here is MY reasons. 1.- I had a harder time finding the pedal hole with the small cleat, maybe that was just me, but standing at a traffic light was stressful, especially when there was a lot of traffic. May be psychological, but I definitely can find the pedal and latch it on faster with the SPD-SL. Reason No. 2, Your point #5 was definitely a factor in my riding, and foot comfort. I felt like you have all that force concentrated in that little small area on the SPD's, as opposed to the SPD-SL, where the force is distributed on a larger area. It actually alleviated some discomfort I was having. Maybe because I ride my road bike a lot longer 5 or 6 hours, vs just riding 2 to 3 hours on my Mt.Bike.
i have used spd pedals for the past 25 years on my ROAD and MTB . The main reason I went for SPD pedals is durability , the metal clip on the shoe has never broken on me . I have seen the plastic clip on road shoe's brake many time's due to walking on them. All so SPD shoe's have rigid base and are so easy to walk in
I don't like the amount of float you get on the spd's for gravel, which I believe is something particular to this discipline. It's closer to road biking, on an uneven terrain. The float on the pedal with the roughness of the road put the feet (then the knees) into weird position sometimes, but you still want to get 'efficient' as in the road bike. Dunno... on the road bike I use the Shimano blue cleat, so it's very stable and dialed in. I wouldn't use it on the gravel because it feels like you need to enter a password and a pin number to release the foot.
I think if you have some really flexy road and mountain shoes, the road shoe will be stiffer on the bike, due to the larger interface. A mountain pedal with a platform surrounding the cleat might be quite good too.(assuming it actually takes weight, and doesn't just hover below the shoe) If both shoes are quite stiff, the difference is negligible. I recently bought some road shoes/cleats for my track bike(spd-sl), and a new pair of spd mountain shoes at the same time. They're both Mavic shoes and seem identical, other than the bolt pattern, and lugs on the mountain shoe. On the bikes, they feel pretty much the same. Some mountain/commuter shoes are quite flexible though, so if you're comparing a flexible mountain shoe to a stiffer road shoe, you'll probably find that the road one is more efficient.
Back in the 80's I had a pair of Aerolights, which looked like liquorish sticks. These were billed as being the worlds lightest pedals. Did many rides on these including a 1000 km randonnee ride. Later on I switched to Time pedals for the Paris-Brest-Paris. Couldn't really tell any difference as far as foot support is concerned.
Switched from SPD to Speedplay and liked them, but too much maintenance. Then switched to Look, and they are very comfortable and light, but much harder to clip into because one must use the foot to flip them upright before entry is possible. I've learned to do this pretty well, but it's still a giant pain in the ass. Shoes are everything; comparing pedals is like comparing crank arms.
Great video. I have been riding SPD’s for the past 5 years and many of my friends ride with SPD SL’s. Few folks convinced me to change but I didn’t. I don’t race nor worried about sprinting. MTB shoes are much stiffer, stronger, easy and convenient. It can be little heavier, but I focus losing some weight myself without worrying about the shoe or the SPD pedal weight. Get a good pair of SPD pedals, shoes, position your cleats well and you will be all set.
I recently changed from SPD with MTB shoes to Speedplay with Road shoes. The reason for this was that I was getting really bad foot pain with the MTB shoes. I spoke to a bike fitter and we looked at the MTB shoes and found they were significantly less stiff than the road shoes. This combined with the smaller contact area of the SPD's was what lead to the foot pain. But yes, I would agree, power transfer has far more to do with the shoe/sole stiffness than the pedal type.
Great Video. I changed from the old strap - system directly to the SPD system on my road bikes. I only use the Look system on the track bike for the velodrome. The selection of the pedal (e.g. Shimano PD A520) and shoes (e.g. SIDI GENIUS 5 FIT CARBON) is certainly important as you will have mountain bike shoes which are too soft. Generally I never felt any difference, no pressure spots with the SPD or anything. I like the little more side wiggle with the SPD. I would say that the selection of light and very stiff shoes is greater for the standard road bike pedals. But for the amateur level, there is no reason not to ride SPD. Of course the huge advantage of SPD is you can walk normally.
I recently brought a pair of speedplays because I really wanted to play around with float, and that I have been told clipping in and out on them are much easier. Well here are some quick thoughts. 1 Float: Yup, love it. I'm so happy that i can adjust my heel out/heel in float independently to suit my preference. I like minimal heal in, but still prefer float for heel out. Yes, I can (and did) point my old cleats towards the toe to get the heel out, but the speedplay is just much easier and accurate to dial in. 2 Clipping in: Maybe because I'm new to speedplay, or maybe because I'm light and didn't get light action, or perhaps just because the spring is new....they have been pretty much in the ass for me to clip in. 3 "efficiency": I brought speedplay with literally no consideration over efficiency due to larger contact or whatever. However, it was pretty apparently to me after a few ride. It's a bit of an odd feeling and I'm not sure how to describe it. It just feels like that area is almost stiffer?? Of course, perhaps part of this is due to the float adjustment. It does feel like the force/load/stress is being distributed over a larger area (larger cleat/4 bolt design??). I have also noticed that I am now getting less hot spot issues. For the record, I first used MTB, then Look style, now Speedplay. MTB is by far the easiest to clip in for me. My particular shoe had too much flex for my liking (both in the upper and the bottom), so that's why I switched it up.
If you mountain bike, mountain pedals only, they’re double sided, so easier to clip into if you come unclipped and if you smash a pedal, they’re much less likely to break
Buchanan Dunn says: "I use crankbrothers all the time and am really happy that way." == Crank brothers cleats wear much quicker than Shimano SPD type cleats because they are made of soft metal similar to brass.(wear from walking, not against the pedal) I used crank brothers for a while but returned to Shimano type.
I used to ride crank bros, because they're easier to jump out of on the fly (for cyclocross, etc). With SPDs, just before they release, the stiffness goes up. With crank bros, they just fall out once you've turned them enough. I also liked that the crank bros cleats are very slightly flatter, so they click less when I walked around. My main complaints with them is that the cleat didn't support the shoe as well, so the bars were digging grooves around the cleat, and also that you can't get cheap compatibles like wellgo, etc, like you can with spds. I've gone back to spds (and knockoffs), and I think for most things I prefer them. I have some nice wellgos with a platform on one side and cleat on the other on my cargo bike, which I can ride with bike shoes, or just normal shoes if it's a short trip. There's not a good way to do that with CBs. You could use the big plastic platforms that click into the cleat, but they have a really high stack height, and they can rattle if you clip in on the opposite side.
I have used both spuds and Looks for years. Unless you are racing or really aggressively jamming big chainrings it does not matter. When I raced road and track I tore SPD pedals apart and then went 100% Look pedals, even then I found their carbon pedals to not be strong enough. I loved the heavier aluminum bodied look pedals, they held up great for years. SPDs I still use for mountain biking and road commuting. If you are just a casual rider with a compact crankset, you don't need shoes and pedal systems designed for road racers.
I ride both type, I use the standard SPD on my road/touring bike (so I can get off and walk normal) and I use the 3 bolt SPD-SL on my fixed gear. Only reason for the SPD-SL is when I'm controlling speed through the pedals on the fixed gear I'm happier with 3 bolts rather than 2 holding the cleat on. Don't notice any difference between the two systems. Best thing about the double sided SPD is much easier to clip in if you are riding around town.
... i have clipped a pedal many times... you are right about aggressive riding... the spindle looks set back so there would be some extra clearance could be a thinner spindle as well... maybe a smaller bearing allowing for a smaller housing etc...
It's all about stack height; how far from flesh to theoretical center of spindle. (thin shoe sole + minimal stack height). One wants to be 'in' the pedal, not on top of the pedal.
GCN did a similar vid. SPD for a mountain bike are upto 10sec easier to click into. This comes into play at traffic intersections where you have to stop. 2. SPDs for Mountain bike are far easier to walk around in, slipping was a big risk for road, as well as cleat were. Clear wear for road style Look and Shimano road cleats wea super fast walking around. 3. Stack height cornering both the same. Weight, dependant on style.XTR are just as light as top end Road styles. 4. Pedal force is also dependant on the shoes base carbon fibre have stiff soles. It's the shoe. Mountain bike SPDs have better advantages for the reasons above. Much easier and safer to clip in and out of. I have both, I use SPD MYB for my XC bike and road training bike and Road cleats for racing cries. Only due to looks. I thought theirs be some advantages on cornering. As I want to get on the gas earlier. Again MTB pedals are same stack height but less wide so advantage die to lean angle would goto MTB.
I’ve been riding road bikes for 20 years and I’ve only ever used the mountain bike SPD’s. Just bought a slightly used 2021 Trek Emonda SL5 with many updated parts, including the pedals. It had the shimano road pedals. Since I didn’t have the cleats for it, I switched to my old pedals…but as of tonight, now that I have the cleats, I switched everything over and am excited to try the road pedals for the first time ever. Have to wait until morning but I cannot wait! Now I was told by a biking friend of mine that it’s better for power transfer. I’m doing research and that led me to this video and your comment and I just wanted to get your thoughts on that, because to me that’s the most appealing thing about the new (to me) pedals/cleats, if it’s true. I so far actually like walking around in the new cleats because it’s not metal and I don’t have to worry about scratching up certain floors.
I've had pretty good luck with the Sidi cx shoe, with stiff plate and the:Shimano PD-A600 larger platform. Pretty stiff contact point, but nice rotational freeplay to protect the knees. I don't race so maybe that will be different.
SPD-L pedal cleat can adjust more angle than SPD pedal cleat. And SPD-L pedal cleat has more large contact attached area with shoes, so it can generate more pushing power into pedal. But as most people mentioned, walking around with such a shoes is difficult.
I think the main difference is how much walking you are going to be doing, and what percentage of the time you are clipped into the bike: Tour de France riders rarely disembark, whereas sportive riders may well want to walk a bit in the pit stop areas.
One issue I hope you can research is the "float" for various cleats and how that might impact power, efficiency, comfort, etc. I use SPDs on my mountain bike (with the bigger pedals with a platform, so things are less hairy if I'm still not clicked in) but for triathlon I use inexpensive old-style Look pedals and the black cleats (pre-Keo). They have no float (which I prefer for road), and I never click in or out of them anyway (I leave the shoes on the bike), so they are fine for that. The SPD 51 cleats have (I think) 4 degree float, which is probably a good thing for trail riding, where you don't always have the luxury of your body in the best position. Some people may stay away from SPD for road simply because they don't want any float. But a single system for all your bikes (and maybe your spinning class too) definitely has advantages, which I think is your main point.
stualden Yes, you're right, one of my main points was that a single pedal system is likely to be more than acceptable for the majority of riders and the SPDs are a good and still efficient option. I will look into working up an article/video about the float issue versus power, comfort, etc. Most pedals road or mountain (SPDs, SPD-R, LOOK, TIME) come out of the box with somewhere around 4-6 degrees of float. I'll dig into this a bit and see what (if anything) the research has to offer up in addition to my own opinions.... Thanks for watching!
Thank you! (These videos are great.) I guess nobody uses the old Look stuff anymore, but I like it since the patent expired and it's cheap (I'm on a budget). The black cleats have no float (at least nothing noticeable), and the red ones have plenty of float. I don't recall whether there's a grey cleat in the old Look style (for Keo, I think it's somewhere in-between black and red). Some people report knee pain resulting from no float, but I'm lucky not to have that (so long as the cleat is placed just-right).
It seems efficiency comes down more to the shoe and float. I've spent years riding and racing, mainly road, but later mtb too. When I bought my first MTB I Switched to spds(well Candy 2 actually) for both road and mt bikes. Even had spds on another bike at one point. After a few months, I switched the road bike back to my Look cleats, cause when I was fit and racing, I was putting out 1400+ watts and the float in the spds, and especially candy's was too much for me while putting the pedal to the road. I love the rotation for mtbing, helps greatly with balance, but it is a different type of riding. The hot spots thing is kind of an issue with me too. I noticed on longer MTB rides I would feel the cleat a lot more and get hot spots, where that problem would almost never occur on my road bike until hour 4-5. Now, I have to get my fat ass back out there and lose the weight I put on, so none of this matters right now LOL
Graeme Obree used SPD pedals and still does. I believe he rode them on Old Faithful throughout his World Record setting exploits and beyond. If they are good enough for him then they really should be no question over efficiency.
Interesting Video, even 5 years later. Thanks. My two cents: 1) Getting in is easier on SPDs when the pedals are double sided. Esp. in a slope. Getting out is the same. 2) Power transfer: I see the only difference in the upward movement because SPD-SL cleats "pull" on a larger length. It’s a bit like lifting something with one finger or three fingers: with three it will be more efficient. BUT: as a recreational or amateur rider, the importance of the pulling is usually negligeable if compared to the pushing. Therefore it’s a non issue for most of us. The other difference I see is in the float, for the people who need it. when I started, I used to ride with 9° Look Keo Red cleats, as I didn’t really know the best rotation. That’s an advantage to avoid injuries. For various reasons, I switched totally to SPD’s. My float will be limited to approx. 6°, which should be ok. On the other hand, some people using a 4.5° float on SPD-SL might not like the 6° one on SPD. Still, I think it’s a non issue, as most of us won’t notice the difference if cleats are positioned correctly. Last, there’s the weight of the shoes. SPD are heavier. Not a big deal for non pros.
Question six: environment. If you are riding in urban areas. Then use spds as it has two options to clip into. If you are riding in the countryside. Then use road pedals, as there nothing to stop your ride that often.
All road / gravel bikes are by far, the best. (I don’t get riding on paved roads with lots of traffic.). Plus I usually throw in some single track on my rides. Therefore the top pedal is Shimano XTR trail pedals which have a small platform which only weighs a few grams more but is more comfortable and supports the foot better.
My experience is, I got stronger doing lot road and riding in intense way, my mtb shoes are very good but got old, and I had to buy larger 43 because my right foot touches the end at 42 size, so they got larger and my foots were moving inside shoes, and then I notice that the narrow cleats were making me using more the outer quadriceps if the cleat was placed more to outer side, or more the vastus medialis and inner leg muscles if the cleat was more to inner side. I had put another insole on shoes and they grab now my feet very well, and problem was solved 80% or so, leaving few to improve by changing to road pedals. Today I decided to take use of 2 sides of SPD520, I've tight more one side on each, and paint a bit that side for easy recognize, so when I want them a bit loose .. and safer to uncleat on one crash, or tight that gives sense of more contact stiff and power transfer, I can choose. Also I noticed that SPD cleat over bone uses more the big muscles on lower leg and then we stretch them easy, but if bit back uses lot more all muscles - muscles that are around lower leg and hard to stretch, pain on touch, blood vessels irritated, need massage, so I prefer keep the cleat a bit more forward than new theory's a bit backward because I don't have access to massage neither want problems PRO gain on lower legs. I'll keeping using SPD520 on my 2 bikes, instead of spending about 140€ more, in fact in past I tended to double things, watter bottle, lights, tools, bag, today I recognize its stupid and not economic, so let me stop thinking on road shoes when I already ride as well or much better than my friends. So I agree with this video author opinion. Bike fit is much more important to safe ours knees and ours kneecap bed, I know it by the bad way. Many years ago I got pelvic tilt due to my posture and curved saddles. My mtb seatpost was straight and I thought it was OK my saddle position should be somewhere there. NO. I always got tense muscles near knee and week near butt, and sometimes I've try to compensate putting saddle higher and irritate the ITB an kneecap bed, until I installed 2,5cm lay-back seatpost and find my adequate bike fit. Both my mtb and roadie bike have now similar measures, and flat saddles, and I feel one world better riding them and after riding.
20 years ago I would say road pedals were far superior to my mtb pedals. But, Just bought a new mtb, new shoes and new xtr’s and they feel amazing. My gut feel is it’s mainly due to vastly improved stiffness in the mtb shoes that are available today. I ride Assioma & Sidi road and Shimano/shimano mtb almost everyday and there isn’t much difference anymore IMO.
Yes it dose have some impact, but not as NEARLY as much as the shoe's sole. This is also why "road" shoes are a PITA to walk in and mountain shoes are easier to walk with. If you are doing a 100 mile road ride the road option is the best. If you are doing gravel, commuting, touring, or cyclocross, I would say some good mountain shoes would be better. Don't forget flats are still good for frequent town traveling(no cleats to worry about). Just keep a set of flat pedals for when you intend to just hop around town, they are not that hard to change out or expensive(easier then having to change shoes all the time). I tried clip in platform converters, but they were not really a good option.
I've been trying to find a proper technical study on this subject and it's all hearsay? Energy doesn't just disappear, the power you put down on any pedal has to go somewhere. I have same Decathlon own brand shoes, they are designed as a raod shoe but with the 2 bolt system and a rubber sole for walking on, brilliant. Thank you 😊
All you have to do is get a power meter and actually test it over a closed course multiple times in each pedal. Road pedals do transfer force over a larger area of the shoe. If you aren't racing wear what is the most comfortable/affordable.
The only advantage I've experienced with my Ultegra vs XTR pedals is that I can hit higher watts in a sprint with the Ultegras. That said, I'm still not sure if it is shoe stiffness, bigger platform, or a placebo effect. But hey... the numbers don't lie so I'll keep using the road shoes for races. Everything else, SPDs for the win!
Just came to this site, thanks for sharing. I'm with you on this, my fear is I'm gonna yank the cleats out of the shoes with two pins instead of three. Then again haven't heard any MTB guys complaints about this yet.
Rotating weight of the SPD pedal plus MTB shoe is potentially the biggest issue. A physicist should be able to calculate the extra watts required to move the extra weight (but that's not me). A high performance MTB shoe with titanium Egg Beater pedals may rival a good road setup as well. Then again, the pro, Adam Hansen makes his own carbon road shoes and has them down to around 80 grams per shoe. that's around 300 grams lighter than a good MTB shoe. so 600 grams for shoes and perhaps 200 grams extra for pedals and your average MTBer is pushing around an extra 1.76 lbs with their feet than Adam is. that's a huge difference.
2 роки тому+1
Commercially available road shoes weight about 150g less per pair than the equivalent XC MTB/SPD shoes. To me, as a tourer not racer, that does not overcome the incovenience of much worse walkability, difficulty to clip and overall comfort (and safety). Btw: The "added effect" of rotational weight is neglegible here, because the radius of the movement of the pedals is quite small. Not anywhere close as for wheels & tires.
7.- The capacity to modify the cleat angle on the shoe: (Important seting) 1) SPD have only 2 bolts together, sliding over a shim, You can set in an out the shoe over the pedal but have restriction and is limitred to set an angle on the cleat, when peapole have not a centred natural foot position, like in or out heels. 2) Road cleats like look keo and Shimano have 3 separate bolts with sliding shim, offering more tolerance to move the cleat on the shoe in, out and an set betther an angle if you need to set in or out heels to mach with for your natural feet position. 3) Speed plate zero pedal offer the Best cleat angle set. The cleat have two bolts to set heel angle play and individualy cleat in an out release point. If You have not centred natural heel angle, this cleats are easily set your natural in - out heel angle whit a screwdriver, seting correctly heel angle , reduce knee pains and injury risk.
Well, there's also float, which many pedals have the option for no-float (so that it is fixed to the pedal) cleats, which many believe has better power transfer. But float, allows your foot to rotate on the pedal, so it's not entirely fixed to the pedal.
two thoughts: hot spots and weight. we all know people are spending big money to lose 100 grams,, so why buy the heavier pedal? I do think they create hot spots easier, even if not racing, just hours in the saddle.
Nanci A point taken about weight - I agree with that. As for the hot spots, that was something I considered but didn't make clear in the section about the stiffness in the soles. I mentioned that mtb shoes can be every bit as stiff as a road shoe, however I think on average if you tested 100 road and 100 mtb shoes the road versions would be stiffer overall. I think that's still where the issue of hotspots stems from (and incorrect cleat placement). Another factor I think may contribute to mtb systems having a greater propensity for hotspots is that many of them seem to have more rudimentary lasts and insoles. So much more effort seems to be put into the inside of road bike shoes with contoured insoles and arch supports that the better support for the foot likely has a role in the decreased incidence of hotspots. Reason I bring that up ist because I had three clients this week with hot spots in their road shoes and all three had purchased "value" shoes and one of them (who was primarily a mountain biker and therefore spent more money on those components) had no hotspots with their mtb shoes which were well over $200. Anyway, food for thought. Thanks for watching
So this was an OK video describing relative differences in pedals and cleats. I don't think it really covered the topic of efficiency between the 2 types of cleat/pedals until "no. 5" came along late in the video. It's not really a discussion of "efficiency", not that I care that much but this could be cut down to about 3 minutes.
I did two ~1 hour races on Zwift with spd and spd-sl. I produced around 10-15W more power on average with the spd-sl(road). That's not a very reliable test but do with that information what you will.
It makes sense. I know my road pedals and shoes are lighter and my segment times on strava are always faster using the road pedal. That being said I still love my mtb pedals and shoes if i'm just cruising and getting off the bike a lot.
Consider few things. Weight difference between both sets. Your personal abilities during both rides. 10-15W is to less to say that spd-sl was really reason of more Watt output.
I have used spd pedals for probably 30+ years on road bike using road and mtb shoes. Also use spd-sl cleats. Biggest difference in profile of shoes. Mtb shoes tend to be flatter than road. With spd on road bike I prefer a single sided pedal. (Old, hard to find.) I have had a double sided pedal grab the asphalt pedaling around corner. Single sided pedal skids rather than grab. If I am riding where I want to walk around some, I take the road bike with spd pedals.
I have the old, original, single-sided, 1990s dura ace spd road pedals somewhere in a box. They are inferior, IMHO, to the SPD A600 which is a single sided Ultegra level pedal that is still made today. The A600, although marketed as a touring pedal, is light, singlesided, aero and easier to clip in than he old original road SPD.
while doing standing sprint on my road pedals, i tend to be pedaling more on the "hook" of the pedal, like toe down position, cant imagine doing that on SPD mtb pedal
Like you, I have SPD's on all my bikes, and the only saving is, weight. 140g for each Shimano SPD-R to 175g for the SPDs. 70g saved in weight for two pedals, haven't weighed any cleats. For the average rider that's not a marginal, to worry about.
Well..........I like the road pedals because of the larger platform and stability, my cleats last much longer than most, ALTHOUGH I don't walk much when doing 60-75 klm rides, anytime I DO get off the bike I put my cleat covers on, right away :-) but yeah I have tried the SPD mountain pedals, and knee tracing, and overall "new" bike fit, pro done, still couldn't feel the same comfortable feeling as with road bike pedal setup, so I had to go back rechange back to the road bike pedals. But that's just me. I know some guys who use the mountain bike type SPD pedals,and they are fine. So to each, his own...
Great video, I've been riding spd's similar to the ones you have for 2 years (on a cannondale synapse) and just got road shoes a few months ago with my new bike(BMC tmr02). For shorter-medium length rides(20-40), I prefer to ride new bike/new pedals. Anything over 40, old bike/old pedals. The road shoes feel a little lighter, but my feet feel sore when I approach the high 40's-50 mile mark. The mtb. shoes are very comfortable for long rides. Also, I'd hate being caught out there not being able to walk in road shoes in an emergency 40+ miles away.
I've ridden the old look delta, Shimano road and MTB pedals, for road/track and bike Polo, and so far, I found that the Shimano road cleats works best for me, even for bike Polo, because of the stability that it provides, and i've seen some BMX racers that also use road pedals for the same reason
I ride a road bike and I use SPD pedals easier to clip in as you're not having to flip the pedal over to clip in. The you just clip in it does not matter which way up the pedal is. Your right about the aero BS the pedal is largely hidden by your shoe. Your shoe will create vastly more wind resistance that the pedal unless of course you have fallen off and your bike is careening down a hill, then yes wind resistance (aero) might come into play but what do you care. Weight 10-25g won't matter I'd be more concerned how full you bladder is or whether you remembered to empty your bowel as they will be heaver than the weight difference in the pedals.
You just need to know that Force (N) = Pressure (N/m2) x surface (m2) and Torque (Nm) = Force x Distance. Therefore, the larger the pressure surface you have (your pedal surface) the higher force you have, the higher Torque you have - go for the largest pedals.
That assumes that you are producing a constant pressure at the bottom of your foot and not a constant force with your leg muscles. At best you may end up with a lower pressure on the ball of your foot if the shoe soles are very flexible, but otherwise it's probably a minimal difference if any at all as far as torque transmitted to the drivetrain.
I ride SPD SH51 on Gravel, Look Keo gray on road. I've tried SPD on road but with hot spot on feet. So Look on road bike for me are better for comfort and less weight of shoe+pedal couple.
L G I responded to another viewer below that this was something I considered but didn't make clear in the section about the stiffness in the soles. I mentioned that mtb shoes can be every bit as stiff as a road shoe, however I think on average if you tested 100 road and 100 mtb shoes the road versions would be stiffer overall. I think that's still where the issue of hotspots stems from (and incorrect cleat placement). Thanks for the input!
I've heard about foot numbness on longer rides with these smaller SPD pedals and not on road pedals, I'm really interested in knowing more about that because I'm planning on having a road bike and didn't like the idea of wearing a road shoe who won't let me walk out of the bike, specially on touring, but I don't wanna have a problem with numbness either.
GNC UK did a VT on both sides to this story worth a watch! Great Video, I’ve only tried road look classic 3 pedals but would like to try clip less to see if there is a difference!
I have used both systems for many years. Certainly SPD style pedals are easier / faster / more reliable to clip in to, so they are good for stop-go riding. In my experience my SPD shoes are heavier than my road shoes, and also bulkier. So my road bike has road pedals and my "commuter" bike has SPDs.
A useful test would be to ride the same segment multiple times with the same bike but different shoes and pedals. I thought of using a power meter, but that would only capture ... power.
Thank you for this video. It helped me a lot. I found I need the spd pedals because I use my road bike both for training and commuting. I definitely need something to walk in .
I like the SPDs but it's too small of a print for my post stress fractured foot, the only pedals that don't bother me are the speedPlay. No more foot pain.
In the winter I change my road Speedplay pedals for SPD (Shimano XT) pedals because the spring of the Speedplay is in the cleat which makes the pedals verry sensitive to dirt. It always feels a little bit strange when I switch to SPD. It’s like a heave to learn to make other pedal strokes. I guess it's because of the stack height difference that the circles that my feeds make changes. When I switch in the spring back to road pedals it feels much more natural. Does anyone know about studies that investigate the impact of stack height?
What about the aerodynamics and weight for both the pedals and shoes. I know my own spd shoes weigh just over 900g for the pair with m540 spd shimano pedals at 455g a pair. While my road shoes are 240g a pair with 248g shimano pd-r8000 spd-sl pedals. Nearly 1kg is a lot to loose if say you have a long hilly sportive to ride and can be cheaper than trying to loose that in other places of the bike (anything on rotational weight maybe also?). Then Aerodynamics-wise the mtb shoes can have tread sticking out below with wider soft uppers that aren't smoothed over - definitely not a huge thing but might add up over many KM. But you def can't beat spd shoes for being able to walk around normally at your destination. Both have their place even before you go into power transfer and mechanics :)
I use Eggbeaters on my mountain bike and road bike. I've found that they are super simple to get into (basically you just stomp on them), and it is the same motion getting in and out of the pedals on both bikes. With that being said, the biggest benefit I've found is actually when I'm off the bike. I can actually walk normally when walking in my road shoes rather than toes up. Also, I have better traction and I don't have to worry about damaging the cleat because 1) It is metal, and 2) It is recessed below the lugs on the bottom of the shoe. I do a lot of long charity rides and this mostly applies to the rest stop areas when they are in gravel lots.
Good summary. For me the biggest difference is how they feel in terms of float, and (for want of a better word) rideability. The 'power transfer' and 'hotspot' arguments that have been put forward in the past are red herrings these days with decent MTB shoes.
The SPDs are squirmy. If you get red/blue clips (Shimano) or black (Look) for road pedals you are locked in. The increase in power transfer are very noticeable.
skip to 10:07 for the actual opinion and takeaway
zbou23 That’s because he ONLY rides mountain bikes. He never owned a single road bike in his life.
He takes longer to say less than almost anyone I’ve ever known.
I changed from SPD to SPD-SL...and was one of the best changed I made. You are just so much more connected to the bike. When using SPD I had the feeling everytime I went from pushing to pulling there was a small travel of my shoe relative to the pedal...with SPD SL im just connected very fix and there is no motion in the vertical direction, and I believe this is more efficient. It is surely more comfortable for me. And as the sideways float is also much more limited, sideways movement has also become less. On my MTB I still have the SPD, the few time I ride this it always makes me happy I switched to SPD-SL on my road bike. The only big negative point is the price of the pedals (I got my 105 pedals pretty cheap for ca. 50€) (and a bit the wear of the plastic cleats). I surely will never go back to SPD on my road bike...in the near future I'll test the blue cleats instead of the yellow and see if there are still comfortable enough for me...
Had the same feeling with SPD. I like SPD and use it on MTB and one of my road bikes, but this little microscopic vertical move is noticable, sometimes it even clicks. SPD-SL's don't have that annoying move/click for me.
Up to you, but several pro riders still stay at the 6 float cleats, rather than go down to the 2/0. I believe that shimano made the blues at pro request and it def feels stiffer, but if viviani and terpstra can use yellows we can too. You can always adjust your release tension as well.
6. Walking around/off the bike.
This is the big difference between the two. One allows you to walk normally over long distances (mtb) and one doesn't and, in certain scenarios, is dangerous to walk around in (wet on a steep hill for example).
I recently broke my arm on my bike and had to walk 3 miles to get a phone signal to call for assistance and I'm very glad I was wearing mtb shoes that day.
I'm sure road shoes and pedals are more efficient, but unless you're entering the Tour de France (and let's be honest, you're not!), mtb shoes are what you need.
+Lee Rigby agreed!
it isn't only about being able to walk in them or not(I mean, you can always take your shoes off to walk), also about feet/leg anatomy. I need to use road pedals, because mtb pedals are too small for me, and so I can move my knee to much, which can lead to injuries. So you need to take way more into account than performance, and being able to walk. One of the main raisons I'm not allowed to ride my MTB anymore, is because of the pedals, and because you need your knees more to keep your balance.
So I need to use road pedals for my health actiully, so you don't just need road pedals to ride the Tour de France, and you don't always need MTBshoes...
I dont race anymore so its doesnt bother me if SPD/MTB shoes are less efficient ..just like i dont use a 52 big ring ..can anyone spin out 52/11 who isnt racing ...I use 34/11 as my biggest gear :-)
You'll also need to put a flat handlebar, wide knobby tires and a suspension fork on your bike.
Is it a mtb?
I ride MTB and road and use SPD M8000 and M9000 respectively. With this: I don't have to use dedicated shoes on each bike, I have the same "feel" specially on release, and the best reason why I use SPD's is that I can walk quietly in and out of the house and my wife will have no idea that I went out cycling ;-)
I ride a road bike and I use SPD pedals due to the shoes I use are not as stiff as the road ones so that I can run after who tries to steal my bike 😂
Specky Cyclist 😓
I've considered spds for the reason of having 'normal-ish' shoes. but believe it or not, i still use cages on my commuter! actually i like them and I can use ANY shoe. i do like the idea though and still may go that direction one day.
DFTA (Don't Feed The Animals) b
Same here. I prefer spd pedals on my road bike because I like to be able to walk around more easily.
Carry a .380 and you don't have to run at all.
Totally agree. The fact that SPD are double sided is a huge benefit in the real world - never looking down / fumbling pulling away from the lights or in traffic etc. Secondly, walking around off the bike - real world cycling. Road shoes outside of racing for me are pointless.
When bike is your main transport, you walk around in them all the time!
MTB pedals are also great for commuting, where you're constantly stopping at traffic lights etc and unclipping. Then when you arrive at work you can walk around without falling over :-)
For my next road bike I'm going to get some PD-A600 pedals. Only 286g (same as 105 road pedals), clip on one side, small platform on the other so you can still push off if you miss the clip in. Then I don't have to shell out for another pair of shoes.
those PD-A600 are top notch pedals in every aspect, i dont belive there is better price/performance ratio spd pedal out there+they look pretty aero too haha :D
Most road pedals come in a fixed position when unclipped, so looking down is not necessary when you have become used to it
Well... I use one sided SPD Pedals with a rounded bottom. If you're used to other road pedals or just trained getting in and out a little bit than you don't need to look down. You stop, the cleat turns to the bottom. So you know to turn the pedal with your toes before clipping in. Same with retro clips really.
Im a roadie and ride with SPDs. I switched from the road pedal after 3 months. I found SPDs easier to get in/out as well as easier to walk on.
I use Shimano SPD for road and trail myself. Easier to walk in and out of a cafe!
im plnning to change my road pedals to spd coz of the shoe
I miss going to cafes
Is it difficult to clip it in and how long did it take you to get used to it
I strictly went SPD because I ride Mountain and Rode, I dont want 2 different shoes for 2 different clipless systems... And yes the shoes being walkable in are a huge plus
@@stephenmckeever6912 took me 1 day and about an hour of practice to get used to clipping in and out
Totally agree. I've done the same 100 mile mixed surface races with both my Specialized Torch/Ultegra road pedals and my Giro VR90/XTR MTB pedals. I didn't notice any real advantages or disadvantages in efficiency, however VR90's do feel a little comfortable on really long rides. Honestly, stuff like the kind of meal I eat beforehand or my choice of tires has much more of an effect on my performance than my pedal/shoe system.
I think the BIG difference is the ease of clipping in and out. I ride XC and race and I ride road and race......you clip in and out way more on a MTB in general. Maybe not so much in XC MTB due to the courses. The float you get on a MTB pedal is important as you move the bike under you a lot more in MTB/XC riding. I guess it's just the different natures of each type of riding that makes the real difference. Nice video!
I use SPD's simply because they are usually double sided. No more twiddling the pedal to get the right angle to clip in. I found the smaller surface area tends to press on the ball of the foot after a while so I switched to SPD pedals with the larger surface area and they seem to fit the bill perfectly.
I switched to SPD for road and I'm never looking back. I noticed way better power transfer when climbing. And they are Bullitt proof! no wearing out cleats. Whish I had done it much sooner.
Having been riding with the Look pedals since the late 1980's I am finally happy again. Look did bring back the Look city, some shoes for look that can be used to walk with. For me the benefit is that all the bikes share the same pedals also on the recumbent I can now ride without a spare pare of shoes. I prefer look because the are lighter
I have ridden many mtb and road pedals and shoes. Currently riding mtb/spd pedals on my road bike. I think you are correct that the efficiency is more from the shoe than the pedal. If you think of the physics, if the shoe is infinitely stiff, and the connection to the pedal has no play, then the size of the platform should be superfluous. In the past my problem was with big heavy bulky mtb shoes, but that is not the case as much now. On day long rides, having the ability to walk in your bike shoes is a bonus. Using lace up Giro mtb shoes.
yes - one caveat: for many/most MTB shoes/pedals, the push doesn't occur totally from the cleat and pedal interface, the shoe lugs push first!
I don't think that is true at all. It would be very difficult to clip in if you had to compress the lugs on the bottom of the shoes. I know for a fact that on my Sidi Dominators the cleat is all that contacts the pedal.
Might not be a problem with your specific system. I had to trim a cheap winter shoe to make the lugs fit, even with the shim provided with the Crankbros Candy. On my (older, camoflage) Dominators to make them work with the same pedals I had to use the contact shims that increases the thickness of the pedal ends to make them meet the pedal lugs better.
Directly from the manufacturer's website FAQ:
" I'm having difficulty clipping into the pedals.
Many mountain bike shoes have thick, variable tread. This can make it difficult to clip into some pedals. If you are having difficulty clipping into crankbrothers pedals, try using the shims provided with the pedals and cleats. The shim is a thin plastic wafer that goes under the cleat. It pushes the cleat out from the shoe sole to allow easier engagement with the pedal. If this does not work, try slightly trimming the shoe tread (in the contact area only). Use a sharp blade or sanding wheel, and please go a little at a time. The tread should make contact with the pedal, but not so much that the tread compresses (which causes difficulty clipping in). "
Cyclocross exposes these issues more than MTB because there's so much dismounting and remounting. I'll admit I haven't reached a perfect solution - I am using the Szyzr system now because it's as solid as a road pedal - there's no contact with the shoe at all, not even the area where the cleat attaches. But it doesn't work in freezing temperature snow or mud - can't clear that packing debris as well as the the eggbeaters or Candy. Normally only an issue for 1/2 races per season.
Or if you're visually oriented (hope this link works)
bicycles.stackexchange.com/questions/21765/my-spd-shoes-cleats-wont-clip-in-to-my-spd-pedals
crank bros pedals always seemed less solid that way to me. it seems like they're designed for your shoe to fit on the ends of the pedal to the left and right of the cleat attachment. (they even sell spacer rings to go on the end of egg-beaters to increase the diameter for a better fit. Judging by the grooves that the bars dug into my shoes, the cleat isn't taking all of the weight.
on SPDs, it seems that the cleat is supporting it fully, and any other pedal features are superfluous (unless riding a flexy shoe)
John Rodgers correct a mondo. Stiff shoe is what counts for racing.
i have spd pedals on all my bikes, this include my track bike. if you blind folded cyclists and just slipped their foot into a super stiff carbon sole shoes already seated, i can gaurantee you they will not be able to tell the difference.
As noted earlier, and as a bike fitter also, the real difference I note is the lateral, side-to-side stability of typical road pedals that provides a much more stable platform for supporting wedging and foot stability and thus knee tracking. For some people that, due to joint alignment, need some rocking as they rotate through the pedal stroke, the more stable spd-sl pedals don't work well.
If I may add my 2 cents to the topic (even though I have only used the SPD variant), I think the difference/advantage isn't enough for the vast majority of riders. Given a stiff enough shoe, the efficiency will be the same, as the shoe and pedal become one "solid" object where you apply force by pedalling. What I think could make any difference is precisely how "solid" the connection between them is and how much play it allows to the rider, that you covered in your "cleat float" video. Due to the mechanical contact between the cleat and the pedal, road specific pedals may have less cleat float, which is good to ensure a correct position, but could also lead to fatigue. So, to each its own... But I think if a rider that feels more comfortable in SPD or SPD-SL, it will probably do so in either road bike or mountain bike, so just stick with the one you prefer and forget about road specific or mtb specific pedals. That is just a way for shimano to have you buy 2 different pedals and 2 different shoe types if you ride both styles.
The only downside I've found to riding standard SPD is the lack of road oriented shoes for SPD. They're generally more focused to gravel or MTB. That's always a bummer.
Spadez I got one Specialized Sport RBX Road Shoes.
Shimano rx8 are like road
Northwave Ghost XCM looks great on Road bike.
Giro Cadet
My experience has been that riding a petal with a bigger platform decreases the chance of getting hot spots during long rides which could slow you down.
For some strange reason, some people actually love getting hot spots on their feet.
I’ve recently switched over my road bike pedals from SPD-SL’s to XTR Trail spd’s, and it’s nice not having to flip the pedal to clip side. Clip in is faster and safer in traffic.
I said that for yrs. when they came out with aero pedals everybody points their feet at different angles so that a tough ones to sell! Nice job on the presentation!
I spent loads of money on shoes and peddles, all a big mistake. MTB shoes and SPDs are more suited to my cycling life. However I do like the adjust-ability of Speed Play peddles, if you have knee issues you can really dial in your position.
My personal experience, I was using my road shoe with an SPD pedal and adapter. Whenever I failed to clip in the SPD scratched/chewed my carbon sole much more than a SPD-R in the same scenario.
It's a minor point, but keeping my shoes just a little tidier was enough for me to switch when it was time for new pedals anyway.
Another argument that could be made specifically for when using SPD on a road shoe was when you do walk on the SPD-R, the plastic damages the floor less
I changed from road pedals to SPD about 8 years ago, and wear Enduro MTB shoes with carbon insole. More comfortable and efficient than road shoes & pedals.
Carl Janse van Rensburg that's my experience as well
Me too
I think he also probably change from a road bike to a mountain bike, so...
Shannon Trainer
Efficiency was a bad word choice. If the sole is very stiff then the shape of the pedal doesn't matter since either way the exact same force is transmitted through a stiff material to the pedal spindle. So neither one is more or less efficient, assuming stiff soles. SPD for me is a bit easier and quicker to clip in. This is because of dual sided entry on Shimano XTR pedals. So what else is there? Weight and aerodynamics. Road shoes are a little lighter at the same price point. Any aero advantage to road shoes is a very marginal gain. Finally there is a lot to be said for being able to walk if you have to. In return for that I accept the condemnation of Velominati everywhere.
Personally, if I going to use road pedals I'll use Speedplays. They're double-sided and have walkable rubber aero covers that protects the cleat. They also come with a pair of screw in rubber caps for walking in mud, not to mention that the float is adjustable. The only to downsize is price($214 for a pair of pedals and cleats) and maintenance(you have to apply a small amount of dry lube in the cavity and the two metal springs on the cleats before every ride and force new grease into the pedals every year with a grease gun, ua-cam.com/video/tJk_pbtOsB4/v-deo.html).
I've got both spd (mountain) and spd-sl (road) and shoes with carbon soles. With carbon soles there is not much difference if you are just concerned with power (flex in the shoe). However, I use my road shoes with road pedals because they accommodate shims and wedges (canting the shoe correctly) and also because they are way better ventilated and have a thinner, more curved sole. For rides less than 60km or situations where I will be walking a bit, I think good quality SPD shoes with SPD ROAD pedals (like the Shimano A-520) are the best. For road riding I would not use mountain pedals like the ones shown in the video that are designed for shedding mud, as opposed to best supporting the sole, because there are better road specific SPD pedals.
Nice video.
One thing that I have noticed, in regards to point 4 in the video, is that SPDs allow more femoral riotation at the hip and (presumably) elsewhere on the biomechanical chain from ankle to hip joint.
Because SPDs have a narrower platform it allows the foot to rock about its longitudinal axis, this allows more external rotation of the femur for any given degree of ankle and knee flexibility, as compared to a road pedal.
This can make a massive difference to a rider with hip stiffness or hip pathology.
Great videos for sure. I agree with point 4 also. The SPDs have more movement which works for my knees and hips. Being a bit less flexible, this added movement is more comfortable and natural. The ability to walk is an added bonus.
Interesting topic especially as I too use mtb spd’s on both my mtb and road bike. The pedals I use on the road bike are the Shimano Spd road version. You can only clip in on one side and have a slightly larger foot print as well. Thanks for sharing.
My knee pain after surgery forced me to try speedplay and that was a winner in terms of knee and feet comfort, safety (easy in and release) and convenience. I never thought that flexibility in the feet would mak such a difference in comfort for long rides for the knee and fee.. I would never go back.
Confirmed al of my suspicions from my own research. Soberly delivered, intelligently approached, this video has helped me to make my decision... PDA600s it is. Thank you.
I have both, and found that SPD pedals created hotspots under the balls of my feet much more quickly than Look pedals. The wider platform of the Look cleat definitely feels like I get stronger power transfer as well, maybe that is because there is a larger degree of float in the SPD pedals, but when pulling up on the pedals I feel connected to the Looks but more like I am pulling at a tiny portion of my shoe with SPDs.
There's a massive difference on my end, not all the time but for sprints for sure: when you push on a MTB pedal the contact is with the squishy lugs on the shoe (which allow you to walk and run) and pedal body. Even with the small eggbeateres from crank bros the push goes against the pedal body from the shoe lug.
Take a look at your MTB shoes on the pedal. Wiggle them a bit - not left and right, but up and down in diagonal direction. The system doesn't necessarily have play per se, but there is a "squish" where the lugs deform before the force is transferred. This is well known by cyclocross racers that do all sort of things to reduce this as their shoes wear: crank bro's shims, gluing strips to the pedals, etc. Or viceversa: when sponsored shoes/pedals are too "deep", they file or cut some of the material to allow for the desired fit. This is widely understood and accepted in CX/MTB racers - and in fact one manufacturer (Speedplay) advertises itself as the only MTB system that pushes on the cleat/pedal metal interface as opposed to relying on the softer components of the system. Crank Bros pedals will even wear a groove in your sole and carbon shoes are recommended to install a metal shim to prevent wear and breakage.
I have measured the effects of this interface differences: on normal, stiff road shoes (Bont as well) my measured power (crank) tops at about 1400 W. On the same bike, with MTB shoes/pedals the top is about 1200. Might not be of importance to you.
Ride what's comfortable for you - I prefer the easy float and double sided Speedplay road systems, but they are very clunky for walking and if you happen to stop on dirt they'll be clogged and make it difficult to clip back in.
Rod Diaz so which pro team do you ride for and how many watts per kg can you hold for an hour? And the difference between those numbers will be irrelevant to road cycling because not even top sprinters will be able to push those watts for more then a second after a 200km stage.😉🌶🌶
200 watts difference!? That is massive. I guess you have no problem keeping your feet warm with SPDs then. 100 watts on each pedal. Even the best shoe heaters don't go that high :)
1400W. Post a video and link it, otherwise that didn't happen
I hear you. I ride Fixed crits and I experienced the same with SPDs and it is horrible. And I really like me some Speedplay Zero track atm for the reasons of stability, power transfer and security from ripping my foot out of the pedal by accident which is a real thing for me on SPDs
I am happy, I have found your channel.
Very informative and systematic approach is always welcome.
Hope, you'll get more attention soon.
As for me, I get used to Shimado SPD XTR pedals + shoes alike SH-XC51 with full carbon outsole.
I have tried Look + some lightweight italian shoes (can't remember exactly it's brand) and can't say that there is really that big difference in performance.
Road purists could think whatever they want, but oddly enough, I find stiff and steady fixed ankle on full-sized carbon platform far more comfortable, than flexible and thin-skinned road shoes.
And btw, SPD MTB/CX shoes with heels, that hides cleats are much more useful in city with many crossroads, like Moscow for example.
Great video! Last year I switched from Look pedals to MTB style SPDs on my road bike and I haven't regretted it. Even if there is truth to the industry claims you list, I'd happily take the drawbacks for the ability to walk comfortably in the shoes! One more argument I've heard against SPDs is that the smaller contact area may cause more pressure and create a hot spot on the sole of the foot (surely the stiffness of the shoe also plays a part here).
Mate. This is the most comprehensive, honest, unbiased comparison I have watched so far. You have a new fan. I have had Look road pedals and cleats on road shoes for road bikes. SPD pedals and shoes for gravel bikes etc. I now have changed my road bike pedals and my gravel bike pedals to the Shimano PD-M424 pedals which are flat on one side and SPD clipless on the other. I can now ride any bike with a pair of runners or fit my mountain bike SPD clipless shoes to have a clipped in ride. Thanks for the comparison. I look forward to watching your other stuff.
I used to have the SPD's on my road bike and switched to SPD-SL. Here is MY reasons. 1.- I had a harder time finding the pedal hole with the small cleat, maybe that was just me, but standing at a traffic light was stressful, especially when there was a lot of traffic. May be psychological, but I definitely can find the pedal and latch it on faster with the SPD-SL. Reason No. 2, Your point #5 was definitely a factor in my riding, and foot comfort. I felt like you have all that force concentrated in that little small area on the SPD's, as opposed to the SPD-SL, where the force is distributed on a larger area. It actually alleviated some discomfort I was having. Maybe because I ride my road bike a lot longer 5 or 6 hours, vs just riding 2 to 3 hours on my Mt.Bike.
i have used spd pedals for the past 25 years on my ROAD and MTB . The main reason I went for SPD pedals is durability , the metal clip on the shoe has never broken on me . I have seen the plastic clip on road shoe's brake many time's due to walking on them. All so SPD shoe's have rigid base and are so easy to walk in
I don't like the amount of float you get on the spd's for gravel, which I believe is something particular to this discipline. It's closer to road biking, on an uneven terrain. The float on the pedal with the roughness of the road put the feet (then the knees) into weird position sometimes, but you still want to get 'efficient' as in the road bike. Dunno... on the road bike I use the Shimano blue cleat, so it's very stable and dialed in. I wouldn't use it on the gravel because it feels like you need to enter a password and a pin number to release the foot.
I think if you have some really flexy road and mountain shoes, the road shoe will be stiffer on the bike, due to the larger interface. A mountain pedal with a platform surrounding the cleat might be quite good too.(assuming it actually takes weight, and doesn't just hover below the shoe)
If both shoes are quite stiff, the difference is negligible.
I recently bought some road shoes/cleats for my track bike(spd-sl), and a new pair of spd mountain shoes at the same time.
They're both Mavic shoes and seem identical, other than the bolt pattern, and lugs on the mountain shoe. On the bikes, they feel pretty much the same.
Some mountain/commuter shoes are quite flexible though, so if you're comparing a flexible mountain shoe to a stiffer road shoe, you'll probably find that the road one is more efficient.
Back in the 80's I had a pair of Aerolights, which looked like liquorish sticks. These were billed as being the worlds lightest pedals. Did many rides on these including a 1000 km randonnee ride. Later on I switched to Time pedals for the Paris-Brest-Paris. Couldn't really tell any difference as far as foot support is concerned.
+Barry Monaghan it was pedals like those that inspired this video. I don't feel much noticeable difference with my SPDs versus my Look Keos too
Switched from SPD to Speedplay and liked them, but too much maintenance. Then switched to Look, and they are very comfortable and light, but much harder to clip into because one must use the foot to flip them upright before entry is possible. I've learned to do this pretty well, but it's still a giant pain in the ass. Shoes are everything; comparing pedals is like comparing crank arms.
Great video. I have been riding SPD’s for the past 5 years and many of my friends ride with SPD SL’s. Few folks convinced me to change but I didn’t. I don’t race nor worried about sprinting. MTB shoes are much stiffer, stronger, easy and convenient. It can be little heavier, but I focus losing some weight myself without worrying about the shoe or the SPD pedal weight. Get a good pair of SPD pedals, shoes, position your cleats well and you will be all set.
I recently changed from SPD with MTB shoes to Speedplay with Road shoes. The reason for this was that I was getting really bad foot pain with the MTB shoes. I spoke to a bike fitter and we looked at the MTB shoes and found they were significantly less stiff than the road shoes. This combined with the smaller contact area of the SPD's was what lead to the foot pain.
But yes, I would agree, power transfer has far more to do with the shoe/sole stiffness than the pedal type.
Peter Dawson Yes, with my newer mtb shoes that are really stiff, I can't tell much difference between them and road shoes/pedals
Great Video. I changed from the old strap - system directly to the SPD system on my road bikes. I only use the Look system on the track bike for the velodrome. The selection of the pedal (e.g. Shimano PD A520) and shoes (e.g. SIDI GENIUS 5 FIT CARBON) is certainly important as you will have mountain bike shoes which are too soft. Generally I never felt any difference, no pressure spots with the SPD or anything. I like the little more side wiggle with the SPD.
I would say that the selection of light and very stiff shoes is greater for the standard road bike pedals. But for the amateur level, there is no reason not to ride SPD. Of course the huge advantage of SPD is you can walk normally.
exit and entry, i used spd before and cant exit a few time, ended up falling, i switched over to looks classic and this worked great
I recently brought a pair of speedplays because I really wanted to play around with float, and that I have been told clipping in and out on them are much easier. Well here are some quick thoughts.
1 Float: Yup, love it. I'm so happy that i can adjust my heel out/heel in float independently to suit my preference. I like minimal heal in, but still prefer float for heel out. Yes, I can (and did) point my old cleats towards the toe to get the heel out, but the speedplay is just much easier and accurate to dial in.
2 Clipping in: Maybe because I'm new to speedplay, or maybe because I'm light and didn't get light action, or perhaps just because the spring is new....they have been pretty much in the ass for me to clip in.
3 "efficiency": I brought speedplay with literally no consideration over efficiency due to larger contact or whatever. However, it was pretty apparently to me after a few ride. It's a bit of an odd feeling and I'm not sure how to describe it. It just feels like that area is almost stiffer?? Of course, perhaps part of this is due to the float adjustment. It does feel like the force/load/stress is being distributed over a larger area (larger cleat/4 bolt design??). I have also noticed that I am now getting less hot spot issues.
For the record, I first used MTB, then Look style, now Speedplay. MTB is by far the easiest to clip in for me. My particular shoe had too much flex for my liking (both in the upper and the bottom), so that's why I switched it up.
If you mountain bike, mountain pedals only, they’re double sided, so easier to clip into if you come unclipped and if you smash a pedal, they’re much less likely to break
I use crankbrothers all the time and am really happy that way.
Buchanan Dunn I'm the same way with my XT SPDs....
Buchanan Dunn says:
"I use crankbrothers all the time and am really happy that way."
==
Crank brothers cleats wear much quicker than Shimano SPD type cleats because they are made of soft metal similar to brass.(wear from walking, not against the pedal)
I used crank brothers for a while but returned to Shimano type.
I used to ride crank bros, because they're easier to jump out of on the fly (for cyclocross, etc). With SPDs, just before they release, the stiffness goes up. With crank bros, they just fall out once you've turned them enough.
I also liked that the crank bros cleats are very slightly flatter, so they click less when I walked around.
My main complaints with them is that the cleat didn't support the shoe as well, so the bars were digging grooves around the cleat, and also that you can't get cheap compatibles like wellgo, etc, like you can with spds.
I've gone back to spds (and knockoffs), and I think for most things I prefer them. I have some nice wellgos with a platform on one side and cleat on the other on my cargo bike, which I can ride with bike shoes, or just normal shoes if it's a short trip. There's not a good way to do that with CBs. You could use the big plastic platforms that click into the cleat, but they have a really high stack height, and they can rattle if you clip in on the opposite side.
I have used both spuds and Looks for years. Unless you are racing or really aggressively jamming big chainrings it does not matter. When I raced road and track I tore SPD pedals apart and then went 100% Look pedals, even then I found their carbon pedals to not be strong enough. I loved the heavier aluminum bodied look pedals, they held up great for years. SPDs I still use for mountain biking and road commuting. If you are just a casual rider with a compact crankset, you don't need shoes and pedal systems designed for road racers.
I ride both type, I use the standard SPD on my road/touring bike (so I can get off and walk normal) and I use the 3 bolt SPD-SL on my fixed gear. Only reason for the SPD-SL is when I'm controlling speed through the pedals on the fixed gear I'm happier with 3 bolts rather than 2 holding the cleat on. Don't notice any difference between the two systems. Best thing about the double sided SPD is much easier to clip in if you are riding around town.
... i have clipped a pedal many times... you are right about aggressive riding... the spindle looks set back so there would be some extra clearance could be a thinner spindle as well... maybe a smaller bearing allowing for a smaller housing etc...
It's all about stack height; how far from flesh to theoretical center of spindle. (thin shoe sole + minimal stack height). One wants to be 'in' the pedal, not on top of the pedal.
For me it definitely comes down to which shoe I can walk in more easily.
GCN did a similar vid.
SPD for a mountain bike are upto 10sec easier to click into. This comes into play at traffic intersections where you have to stop.
2. SPDs for Mountain bike are far easier to walk around in, slipping was a big risk for road, as well as cleat were. Clear wear for road style Look and Shimano road cleats wea super fast walking around.
3. Stack height cornering both the same.
Weight, dependant on style.XTR are just as light as top end Road styles.
4. Pedal force is also dependant on the shoes base carbon fibre have stiff soles. It's the shoe.
Mountain bike SPDs have better advantages for the reasons above. Much easier and safer to clip in and out of.
I have both, I use SPD MYB for my XC bike and road training bike and Road cleats for racing cries. Only due to looks. I thought theirs be some advantages on cornering. As I want to get on the gas earlier. Again MTB pedals are same stack height but less wide so advantage die to lean angle would goto MTB.
I’ve been riding road bikes for 20 years and I’ve only ever used the mountain bike SPD’s. Just bought a slightly used 2021 Trek Emonda SL5 with many updated parts, including the pedals. It had the shimano road pedals. Since I didn’t have the cleats for it, I switched to my old pedals…but as of tonight, now that I have the cleats, I switched everything over and am excited to try the road pedals for the first time ever. Have to wait until morning but I cannot wait! Now I was told by a biking friend of mine that it’s better for power transfer. I’m doing research and that led me to this video and your comment and I just wanted to get your thoughts on that, because to me that’s the most appealing thing about the new (to me) pedals/cleats, if it’s true. I so far actually like walking around in the new cleats because it’s not metal and I don’t have to worry about scratching up certain floors.
I ride the SPD with adapted road bike shoes, I’m a very heavy rider and I have never felt I was missing support
I've had pretty good luck with the Sidi cx shoe, with stiff plate and the:Shimano PD-A600 larger platform. Pretty stiff contact point, but nice rotational freeplay to protect the knees. I don't race so maybe that will be different.
SPD-L pedal cleat can adjust more angle than SPD pedal cleat. And SPD-L pedal cleat has more large contact attached area with shoes, so it can generate more pushing power into pedal. But as most people mentioned, walking around with such a shoes is difficult.
I think the main difference is how much walking you are going to be doing, and what percentage of the time you are clipped into the bike: Tour de France riders rarely disembark, whereas sportive riders may well want to walk a bit in the pit stop areas.
One issue I hope you can research is the "float" for various cleats and how that might impact power, efficiency, comfort, etc.
I use SPDs on my mountain bike (with the bigger pedals with a platform, so things are less hairy if I'm still not clicked in) but for triathlon I use inexpensive old-style Look pedals and the black cleats (pre-Keo). They have no float (which I prefer for road), and I never click in or out of them anyway (I leave the shoes on the bike), so they are fine for that. The SPD 51 cleats have (I think) 4 degree float, which is probably a good thing for trail riding, where you don't always have the luxury of your body in the best position.
Some people may stay away from SPD for road simply because they don't want any float. But a single system for all your bikes (and maybe your spinning class too) definitely has advantages, which I think is your main point.
stualden Yes, you're right, one of my main points was that a single pedal system is likely to be more than acceptable for the majority of riders and the SPDs are a good and still efficient option.
I will look into working up an article/video about the float issue versus power, comfort, etc. Most pedals road or mountain (SPDs, SPD-R, LOOK, TIME) come out of the box with somewhere around 4-6 degrees of float. I'll dig into this a bit and see what (if anything) the research has to offer up in addition to my own opinions....
Thanks for watching!
Thank you! (These videos are great.) I guess nobody uses the old Look stuff anymore, but I like it since the patent expired and it's cheap (I'm on a budget). The black cleats have no float (at least nothing noticeable), and the red ones have plenty of float. I don't recall whether there's a grey cleat in the old Look style (for Keo, I think it's somewhere in-between black and red). Some people report knee pain resulting from no float, but I'm lucky not to have that (so long as the cleat is placed just-right).
I''ve rode for 20yr now and the longer i go on i need less movement though over a big long distance, float is good for me.
It seems efficiency comes down more to the shoe and float. I've spent years riding and racing, mainly road, but later mtb too. When I bought my first MTB I Switched to spds(well Candy 2 actually) for both road and mt bikes. Even had spds on another bike at one point. After a few months, I switched the road bike back to my Look cleats, cause when I was fit and racing, I was putting out 1400+ watts and the float in the spds, and especially candy's was too much for me while putting the pedal to the road. I love the rotation for mtbing, helps greatly with balance, but it is a different type of riding. The hot spots thing is kind of an issue with me too. I noticed on longer MTB rides I would feel the cleat a lot more and get hot spots, where that problem would almost never occur on my road bike until hour 4-5. Now, I have to get my fat ass back out there and lose the weight I put on, so none of this matters right now LOL
Joseph Sieracki thanks for sharing your experience....I too have to find time to get on my bike more!
This comment is very spot on. Totally agree with this guy. Thx
Graeme Obree used SPD pedals and still does. I believe he rode them on Old Faithful throughout his World Record setting exploits and beyond. If they are good enough for him then they really should be no question over efficiency.
Interesting Video, even 5 years later. Thanks.
My two cents:
1) Getting in is easier on SPDs when the pedals are double sided. Esp. in a slope. Getting out is the same.
2) Power transfer: I see the only difference in the upward movement because SPD-SL cleats "pull" on a larger length. It’s a bit like lifting something with one finger or three fingers: with three it will be more efficient. BUT: as a recreational or amateur rider, the importance of the pulling is usually negligeable if compared to the pushing. Therefore it’s a non issue for most of us.
The other difference I see is in the float, for the people who need it. when I started, I used to ride with 9° Look Keo Red cleats, as I didn’t really know the best rotation. That’s an advantage to avoid injuries. For various reasons, I switched totally to SPD’s. My float will be limited to approx. 6°, which should be ok. On the other hand, some people using a 4.5° float on SPD-SL might not like the 6° one on SPD. Still, I think it’s a non issue, as most of us won’t notice the difference if cleats are positioned correctly.
Last, there’s the weight of the shoes. SPD are heavier. Not a big deal for non pros.
Question six: environment. If you are riding in urban areas. Then use spds as it has two options to clip into. If you are riding in the countryside. Then use road pedals, as there nothing to stop your ride that often.
All road / gravel bikes are by far, the best. (I don’t get riding on paved roads with lots of traffic.). Plus I usually throw in some single track on my rides. Therefore the top pedal is Shimano XTR trail pedals which have a small platform which only weighs a few grams more but is more comfortable and supports the foot better.
My experience is, I got stronger doing lot road and riding in intense way, my mtb shoes are very good but got old, and I had to buy larger 43 because my right foot touches the end at 42 size, so they got larger and my foots were moving inside shoes, and then I notice that the narrow cleats were making me using more the outer quadriceps if the cleat was placed more to outer side, or more the vastus medialis and inner leg muscles if the cleat was more to inner side. I had put another insole on shoes and they grab now my feet very well, and problem was solved 80% or so, leaving few to improve by changing to road pedals.
Today I decided to take use of 2 sides of SPD520, I've tight more one side on each, and paint a bit that side for easy recognize, so when I want them a bit loose .. and safer to uncleat on one crash, or tight that gives sense of more contact stiff and power transfer, I can choose.
Also I noticed that SPD cleat over bone uses more the big muscles on lower leg and then we stretch them easy, but if bit back uses lot more all muscles - muscles that are around lower leg and hard to stretch, pain on touch, blood vessels irritated, need massage, so I prefer keep the cleat a bit more forward than new theory's a bit backward because I don't have access to massage neither want problems PRO gain on lower legs. I'll keeping using SPD520 on my 2 bikes, instead of spending about 140€ more, in fact in past I tended to double things, watter bottle, lights, tools, bag, today I recognize its stupid and not economic, so let me stop thinking on road shoes when I already ride as well or much better than my friends.
So I agree with this video author opinion.
Bike fit is much more important to safe ours knees and ours kneecap bed, I know it by the bad way. Many years ago I got pelvic tilt due to my posture and curved saddles. My mtb seatpost was straight and I thought it was OK my saddle position should be somewhere there. NO. I always got tense muscles near knee and week near butt, and sometimes I've try to compensate putting saddle higher and irritate the ITB an kneecap bed, until I installed 2,5cm lay-back seatpost and find my adequate bike fit. Both my mtb and roadie bike have now similar measures, and flat saddles, and I feel one world better riding them and after riding.
20 years ago I would say road pedals were far superior to my mtb pedals. But, Just bought a new mtb, new shoes and new xtr’s and they feel amazing. My gut feel is it’s mainly due to vastly improved stiffness in the mtb shoes that are available today. I ride Assioma & Sidi road and Shimano/shimano mtb almost everyday and there isn’t much difference anymore IMO.
Yes it dose have some impact, but not as NEARLY as much as the shoe's sole. This is also why "road" shoes are a PITA to walk in and mountain shoes are easier to walk with. If you are doing a 100 mile road ride the road option is the best. If you are doing gravel, commuting, touring, or cyclocross, I would say some good mountain shoes would be better. Don't forget flats are still good for frequent town traveling(no cleats to worry about). Just keep a set of flat pedals for when you intend to just hop around town, they are not that hard to change out or expensive(easier then having to change shoes all the time). I tried clip in platform converters, but they were not really a good option.
I've been trying to find a proper technical study on this subject and it's all hearsay?
Energy doesn't just disappear, the power you put down on any pedal has to go somewhere.
I have same Decathlon own brand shoes, they are designed as a raod shoe but with the 2 bolt system and a rubber sole for walking on, brilliant.
Thank you 😊
All you have to do is get a power meter and actually test it over a closed course multiple times in each pedal. Road pedals do transfer force over a larger area of the shoe. If you aren't racing wear what is the most comfortable/affordable.
The only advantage I've experienced with my Ultegra vs XTR pedals is that I can hit higher watts in a sprint with the Ultegras. That said, I'm still not sure if it is shoe stiffness, bigger platform, or a placebo effect. But hey... the numbers don't lie so I'll keep using the road shoes for races. Everything else, SPDs for the win!
Just came to this site, thanks for sharing. I'm with you on this, my fear is I'm gonna yank the cleats out of the shoes with two pins instead of three. Then again haven't heard any MTB guys complaints about this yet.
5- To me, bigger platform = more comfort during long rides.
that all depends on the stiffness of the sole
Rotating weight of the SPD pedal plus MTB shoe is potentially the biggest issue. A physicist should be able to calculate the extra watts required to move the extra weight (but that's not me). A high performance MTB shoe with titanium Egg Beater pedals may rival a good road setup as well. Then again, the pro, Adam Hansen makes his own carbon road shoes and has them down to around 80 grams per shoe. that's around 300 grams lighter than a good MTB shoe. so 600 grams for shoes and perhaps 200 grams extra for pedals and your average MTBer is pushing around an extra 1.76 lbs with their feet than Adam is. that's a huge difference.
Commercially available road shoes weight about 150g less per pair than the equivalent XC MTB/SPD shoes. To me, as a tourer not racer, that does not overcome the incovenience of much worse walkability, difficulty to clip and overall comfort (and safety).
Btw: The "added effect" of rotational weight is neglegible here, because the radius of the movement of the pedals is quite small. Not anywhere close as for wheels & tires.
Great videos!
Ive been using xt and 105 pedals and the ONLY difference is that road pedals feel "more secure" when "puling".
I use Spd-sl at less traffic areas and Spd when I am expected to face multiple traffic junctions. Safety is still the priority.
Thanks for this video. It's a question I have been wondering for ages as I ride mtb spd on my road bike.
Tim Mifsud Glad it helped....and, for the record, I use SPDs on my road bike as well
Entry/Exit a wash??!!! Two words: double and sided. That said, I did find your point of view regarding question 5 super useful. Thanks!
7.- The capacity to modify the cleat angle on the shoe: (Important seting)
1) SPD have only 2 bolts together, sliding over a shim, You can set in an out the shoe over the pedal but have restriction and is limitred to set an angle on the cleat, when peapole have not a centred natural foot position, like in or out heels.
2) Road cleats like look keo and Shimano have 3 separate bolts with sliding shim, offering more tolerance to move the cleat on the shoe in, out and an set betther an angle if you need to set in or out heels to mach with for your natural feet position.
3) Speed plate zero pedal offer the Best cleat angle set. The cleat have two bolts to set heel angle play and individualy cleat in an out release point. If You have not centred natural heel angle, this cleats are easily set your natural in - out heel angle whit a screwdriver, seting correctly heel angle , reduce knee pains and injury risk.
Foot fixed to a pedal. That's it. It's either on or off. Not like a running shoe. A running shoe is a dynamic. A cycle shoe is a static.
Well, there's also float, which many pedals have the option for no-float (so that it is fixed to the pedal) cleats, which many believe has better power transfer. But float, allows your foot to rotate on the pedal, so it's not entirely fixed to the pedal.
two thoughts: hot spots and weight. we all know people are spending big money to lose 100 grams,, so why buy the heavier pedal? I do think they create hot spots easier, even if not racing, just hours in the saddle.
Nanci A point taken about weight - I agree with that.
As for the hot spots, that was something I considered but didn't make clear in the section about the stiffness in the soles. I mentioned that mtb shoes can be every bit as stiff as a road shoe, however I think on average if you tested 100 road and 100 mtb shoes the road versions would be stiffer overall. I think that's still where the issue of hotspots stems from (and incorrect cleat placement).
Another factor I think may contribute to mtb systems having a greater propensity for hotspots is that many of them seem to have more rudimentary lasts and insoles. So much more effort seems to be put into the inside of road bike shoes with contoured insoles and arch supports that the better support for the foot likely has a role in the decreased incidence of hotspots. Reason I bring that up ist because I had three clients this week with hot spots in their road shoes and all three had purchased "value" shoes and one of them (who was primarily a mountain biker and therefore spent more money on those components) had no hotspots with their mtb shoes which were well over $200. Anyway, food for thought.
Thanks for watching
hotspots have nothing to do with pedal type, its the position and stiffness of shoes. u get hotspots in every shoe that does not fit you properly.
Bike Fit Adviser z
So this was an OK video describing relative differences in pedals and cleats. I don't think it really covered the topic of efficiency between the 2 types of cleat/pedals until "no. 5" came along late in the video. It's not really a discussion of "efficiency", not that I care that much but this could be cut down to about 3 minutes.
I did two ~1 hour races on Zwift with spd and spd-sl. I produced around 10-15W more power on average with the spd-sl(road). That's not a very reliable test but do with that information what you will.
It makes sense. I know my road pedals and shoes are lighter and my segment times on strava are always faster using the road pedal. That being said I still love my mtb pedals and shoes if i'm just cruising and getting off the bike a lot.
Consider few things. Weight difference between both sets. Your personal abilities during both rides. 10-15W is to less to say that spd-sl was really reason of more Watt output.
I have used spd pedals for probably 30+ years on road bike using road and mtb shoes. Also use spd-sl cleats. Biggest difference in profile of shoes. Mtb shoes tend to be flatter than road. With spd on road bike I prefer a single sided pedal. (Old, hard to find.) I have had a double sided pedal grab the asphalt pedaling around corner. Single sided pedal skids rather than grab. If I am riding where I want to walk around some, I take the road bike with spd pedals.
I have the old, original, single-sided, 1990s dura ace spd road pedals somewhere in a box. They are inferior, IMHO, to the SPD A600 which is a single sided Ultegra level pedal that is still made today. The A600, although marketed as a touring pedal, is light, singlesided, aero and easier to clip in than he old original road SPD.
while doing standing sprint on my road pedals, i tend to be pedaling more on the "hook" of the pedal, like toe down position, cant imagine doing that on SPD mtb pedal
No difference, the sole of the shoe is the offer factor in power transfer, not the clear....
Like you, I have SPD's on all my bikes, and the only saving is, weight. 140g for each Shimano SPD-R to 175g for the SPDs. 70g saved in weight for two pedals, haven't weighed any cleats. For the average rider that's not a marginal, to worry about.
Well..........I like the road pedals because of the larger platform and stability, my cleats last much longer than most, ALTHOUGH I don't walk much when doing 60-75 klm rides, anytime I DO get off the bike I put my cleat covers on, right away :-) but yeah I have tried the SPD mountain pedals, and knee tracing, and overall "new" bike fit, pro done, still couldn't feel the same comfortable feeling as with road bike pedal setup, so I had to go back rechange back to the road bike pedals. But that's just me. I know some guys who use the mountain bike type SPD pedals,and they are fine. So to each, his own...
Great video, I've been riding spd's similar to the ones you have for 2 years (on a cannondale synapse) and just got road shoes a few months ago with my new bike(BMC tmr02). For shorter-medium length rides(20-40), I prefer to ride new bike/new pedals. Anything over 40, old bike/old pedals. The road shoes feel a little lighter, but my feet feel sore when I approach the high 40's-50 mile mark. The mtb. shoes are very comfortable for long rides. Also, I'd hate being caught out there not being able to walk in road shoes in an emergency 40+ miles away.
usman your experience with the road shoes is a common one -- road shoes often tend to be very low volume shoes and can create problems for some
I've ridden the old look delta, Shimano road and MTB pedals, for road/track and bike Polo, and so far, I found that the Shimano road cleats works best for me, even for bike Polo, because of the stability that it provides, and i've seen some BMX racers that also use road pedals for the same reason
I ride a road bike and I use SPD pedals easier to clip in as you're not having to flip the pedal over to clip in. The you just clip in it does not matter which way up the pedal is. Your right about the aero BS the pedal is largely hidden by your shoe. Your shoe will create vastly more wind resistance that the pedal unless of course you have fallen off and your bike is careening down a hill, then yes wind resistance (aero) might come into play but what do you care. Weight 10-25g won't matter I'd be more concerned how full you bladder is or whether you remembered to empty your bowel as they will be heaver than the weight difference in the pedals.
You just need to know that Force (N) = Pressure (N/m2) x surface (m2) and Torque (Nm) = Force x Distance.
Therefore, the larger the pressure surface you have (your pedal surface) the higher force you have, the higher Torque you have - go for the largest pedals.
That assumes that you are producing a constant pressure at the bottom of your foot and not a constant force with your leg muscles. At best you may end up with a lower pressure on the ball of your foot if the shoe soles are very flexible, but otherwise it's probably a minimal difference if any at all as far as torque transmitted to the drivetrain.
I ride SPD SH51 on Gravel, Look Keo gray on road. I've tried SPD on road but with hot spot on feet. So Look on road bike for me are better for comfort and less weight of shoe+pedal couple.
L G I responded to another viewer below that this was something I considered but didn't make clear in the section about the stiffness in the soles. I mentioned that mtb shoes can be every bit as stiff as a road shoe, however I think on average if you tested 100 road and 100 mtb shoes the road versions would be stiffer overall. I think that's still where the issue of hotspots stems from (and incorrect cleat placement). Thanks for the input!
I've heard about foot numbness on longer rides with these smaller SPD pedals and not on road pedals, I'm really interested in knowing more about that because I'm planning on having a road bike and didn't like the idea of wearing a road shoe who won't let me walk out of the bike, specially on touring, but I don't wanna have a problem with numbness either.
Google cleat covers for road shoes.
GNC UK did a VT on both sides to this story worth a watch! Great Video, I’ve only tried road look classic 3 pedals but would like to try clip less to see if there is a difference!
I have used both systems for many years. Certainly SPD style pedals are easier / faster / more reliable to clip in to, so they are good for stop-go riding. In my experience my SPD shoes are heavier than my road shoes, and also bulkier. So my road bike has road pedals and my "commuter" bike has SPDs.
A useful test would be to ride the same segment multiple times with the same bike but different shoes and pedals. I thought of using a power meter, but that would only capture ... power.
Thank you for this video. It helped me a lot. I found I need the spd pedals because I use my road bike both for training and commuting. I definitely need something to walk in .
I like the SPDs but it's too small of a print for my post stress fractured foot, the only pedals that don't bother me are the speedPlay. No more foot pain.
In the winter I change my road Speedplay pedals for SPD (Shimano XT) pedals because the spring of the Speedplay is in the cleat which makes the pedals verry sensitive to dirt. It always feels a little bit strange when I switch to SPD. It’s like a heave to learn to make other pedal strokes. I guess it's because of the stack height difference that the circles that my feeds make changes. When I switch in the spring back to road pedals it feels much more natural. Does anyone know about studies that investigate the impact of stack height?
What about the aerodynamics and weight for both the pedals and shoes. I know my own spd shoes weigh just over 900g for the pair with m540 spd shimano pedals at 455g a pair. While my road shoes are 240g a pair with 248g shimano pd-r8000 spd-sl pedals. Nearly 1kg is a lot to loose if say you have a long hilly sportive to ride and can be cheaper than trying to loose that in other places of the bike (anything on rotational weight maybe also?). Then Aerodynamics-wise the mtb shoes can have tread sticking out below with wider soft uppers that aren't smoothed over - definitely not a huge thing but might add up over many KM. But you def can't beat spd shoes for being able to walk around normally at your destination. Both have their place even before you go into power transfer and mechanics :)
I use Eggbeaters on my mountain bike and road bike. I've found that they are super simple to get into (basically you just stomp on them), and it is the same motion getting in and out of the pedals on both bikes. With that being said, the biggest benefit I've found is actually when I'm off the bike. I can actually walk normally when walking in my road shoes rather than toes up. Also, I have better traction and I don't have to worry about damaging the cleat because 1) It is metal, and 2) It is recessed below the lugs on the bottom of the shoe. I do a lot of long charity rides and this mostly applies to the rest stop areas when they are in gravel lots.
Good summary. For me the biggest difference is how they feel in terms of float, and (for want of a better word) rideability. The 'power transfer' and 'hotspot' arguments that have been put forward in the past are red herrings these days with decent MTB shoes.
Any system transfers the power to the spindles, that is where it all starts if you ask me
The SPDs are squirmy. If you get red/blue clips (Shimano) or black (Look) for road pedals you are locked in. The increase in power transfer are very noticeable.