This Batman Mystery Has Never Been Solved
Вставка
- Опубліковано 26 гру 2023
- The Batman was an animated Batman series which aired from 2004 - 2008. It featured the adventures of a younger Bruce Wayne/Dark Knight and also ended up contained a rather sizable behind the scenes mystery. Season 1 and 2 focused a lot on Batman having to take on his villains and the police. One officer was Detective Ellen Yin . At first, against vigilantes she eventually came to respect and work with Gotham's protector. Then at the start of season 3, she vanished. Rumours have swirled for years as to what happened. We take a look at them all here on Casually Comics!
Join this channel to get access to perks:
/ @casuallycomics
Batman Meets Jealous Alien Batman
• Batman Meets Jealous A...
That Time Batman The Brave And The Bold Got Too Saucy
• That Time Batman The B...
#casuallycomics #batman #thebatman #dccomics #mystery #animation
Kofi -
ko-fi.com/casuallycomics
Follow Me On Insta -
/ casuallycomics
Business Inquiries/Contact Me:
casuallycomics@gmail.com casually comics - Розваги
Did this show need more Ellen Yin?
Ofcors
We need more Cheshire
Personally, I think it needed her more than Jim.
YES
Hell yeah. This was my introduction to the Batman series, and was heartbroken when it ended. Wish it lasted a bit longer
Ellen Yin was a pretty badass Batman character. Shame she wasn't later incorporated into the comics, like Harley Quinn, Lock-Up and other DCAU characters
She probably never got adapted because she’s a composite of Detective Montoya and Ellen Yindell who were already part of the comics. Her role as a character probably seemed a bit redundant, at the time at least.
She cameoed in DC Bombshells comics - despite The Batman being very mid-2000s in terms of style and characterisation, it was still fun to see her in a 1940s world.
Yin and Crispus Allen (from Gotham Central) are shown as Maggie Sawyer’s friends - the fact all three are Metropolis PD alumni is a fun touch…
And some Marvel characters. Thinking Mariah Crawford.
@@RtotalmagicI remember her cameo there! It was really nice to see her.
I love that comic so much, I really wish more people read it
I agree. There really aren't all that many well-defined members of the GCPD despite the decades of its development as a concept, so there's really no reason for her to not become a regularly-depicted member in some capacity for the sake of the fans' enjoyment.
I get why they got rid of Yin after the second season, since Batgirl and Robin would need their own screen time once they were introduced. However, completely erasing the character was simply ridiculous and unnecesary, as they could have simply given her a more limited role. At least it's good to know that, in the episode set in the future, it is mentioned that she will become the new Commissioner
I agree completely. If a character or concept is going to be left behind, a phasing out is always the better route to go rather than abrupt erasure.
Stuff like that makes season 3 onwards feel like a totally different show for better or worse.
She would but then she got killed by Calendar man.
I didn't watch the show but I feel liked it's a missed opportunity. There was Batgirl but imagine if Yin acted as a second mentor figure for Barabara: Gordon being too busy and completely stopping his daughter from trying to help meanwhile Yin knowing that it wouldn't stop her would try to listen to Barbara and be sure she wouldn't get herself in trouble (not knowing that she's Batgirl)
Especially when they let Tank stay....yet Yin gets no real parting words.
Looking at Ming-Na Wen's filmography, her live-action career really took off right when she left The Batman, including starring in a few shows that weren't picked up or were cancelled, some big parts in other shows, and soon followed by successful main cast roles like in Stargate Universe. Whether it was "too busy" or "wanted more money", I think at that point it was probably both, and both well deserved.
The "too busy" explanation makes more sense than her holding out for a bigger paycheck. She's an amazing actor but demanding more money doesn't seem like something she'd do.
Probably a combination of reasons. They wanted to focus on other characters and didn't keep her as a background character because the actress was busy.
She was one of 2-3 actors who carried 'Agents of SHIELD' on their back
Why didn't they replace her as a voice actor? In the latest 'What If' series, they replaced RDJ and Scarlet Johannson with other voice actors taking over the animated Ironman & Black Widow roles.
The Ming-Na Wen rumor seems least likely to be the reason Ellen Yen was dropped from the show. Animation is made more ahead of time than live action and voices are one of the last things done as well as the fact that you usually bring actors in one at time to record. Worst case, the voice could have been recast. The other reasons make more sense.
One other thing to mention: Renee Montoya.
It may seem unfair, but Yin / Bennett gave off pretty much the same vibes as Crispus Allen / Renee Montoya in the comics, so when the question came up “can we use Ellen Yin in the mainstream comics?”, the answer was a short “why? we already have Montoya”.
bingo. even when Montoya became The Question there wasn’t a reason for Yin to be used.
The way I'd handle this, is to simply place Yin on a different department ;Have Montoya on stories that are more grounded, that focuses more on traditional crime stories involving homicide, gangs, and killers. With villains like Joker, Penguin, Two-Face, Riddler, etc. While Yin can handle cases involving mutations: Croc, Ivy, Man-Bat, Clay-Face, Freeze and others.
This way, we're not just wasting characters. But rather, expanding Gotham P.D's narrative on the Bat-lore. As well as providing additional allies for Batman and co.
And come on. If Law and Order, CSI, and NCIS can have multiple female cop characters. I don't see why we can't do the same for Gotham P.D.
Omitting Yin from further appearances in the show and main comics does make Gotham feel smaller than it should be.
Plus Rojas has Detective Bullock’s role of going after Batman.
Oh…I didn’t think of that
This show is ridiculously underrated.
Since it was released between the DCAU and Brave and the Bold, people not giving The Batman credit felt semi-inevitable.
I feel a HD-release of all the seasons in one DVD-set would be more than enough to satisfy people. This show has a great legacy in my opinion with good themes, story-lines and great action.
It ran for 4 years and sold a shitton of toys
It wasn't underrated at all.
I was always skeptical about it, i might check it out.
I think Beware the Batman is even more so.
"Yin... What's become of us?"
There was real gold hidden just below the surface in The Batman, under all the sharp lines and sharper chins.
I like the artstyle personally lol.
That line gave me chills
The DC character limiting policy was so condescending, like people couldn't understand that separate shows were, well, separate
They assumed viewers were as smart as they were. Not very
I loved this show’s art style so much! I really want to see Yin appear in other Batman media, even if only as a cameo.
Look up jeff matsuda. This show was 100% his art style. I grew up as a kid loving his comics and style
Ironically it was the art style that kept me from getting into the show. From the episodes I saw I like how they handled some characters but having grown up with the animated series the change was just too extreme some characters like the Batman's joker just felt like those Chinese knock off toys where they change just enough they can't be sued for copyright.
@@FFmaxxx This show is what introduced me to him! I love his art so much!
It really peaked in the Dracula movie, that atmosphere is unique.
The art style was awful. The 1990s Batman art style is so much better.
I assume Ellen Yin was a casualty of The Batman constantly retooling itself. As you mentioned, the third season introduced Batgirl, focused HARD on that part of the story, and had an overall shift in the way it told its stories. Then Season 4 brought in Robin, and there was a MARKED shift in tone, making it a lot more similar to BTAS. Then Season 5 changed things to a proto-Brave & The Bold, with Batman teaming up with a different superhero each episode.
I miss Yin, though. Their dynamic with Batman in Season 2 was a lot of fun.
This may not have been a coincidence. YEARS ago, I once saw a video done by a somewhat infamous critic, Doug Walker(A.K.A the Nostalgia Critic)who once did a review on this iteration of Batman. this was I THINK before he began making uploads on UA-cam. back then, he had a website where he did all of his uploads in(can't remember, but something happened to his site and he had to do his business on UA-cam).
Anyways... Sometime during that time, he made a video where he talked that the person who MADE "The Batman" WASN'T the same person who made the og bas!
But it gets better! GET THIS! The guy who made "The Batman" DID NOT GET ALONG with the guy who made the animated series. He MADE "The Batman" with the intent to show how it was REALLY done! Yea, it was done to 1up the other guy!
BOY did it backfire! AT SOME POINT... He RAN out of ideas for HOW to continue the show!(I THINK this was after the second season, NOT sure though)and... It was GOING UNDER! That's right... It vvveeerrrry NEARLY got cancelled and CANNED! He was on his last legs and VERY desperate! Know what he does? He goes begging for the OTHER guys help(the guy that made the animated series).
Now... Knowing the relationship with this guy, he COULD have turned this down and just watch the guy go under... But... BECAUSE he begged. . He decides to actually help him!
THAT'S RIGHT! The guy who made bas actually ended up carrying that show!
AND THE NUMBER ONE REASON WHY THE INTRO THEME changed so much... Was done. . to PISS off the bloack that came crawling to him for help!
After it was all said and done, having to have worked on "The Batman" re-invigorated his creativity, and it INSPIRED him to make the brave and the bold!
Is pretty unique how the show changed so much between seasons.
@@TheDeepThinker-sq3iyIs this confirmed or is just rumors? Also, don't bring up Doug Walker...
@@illseeyaonthedarksideofthemoon You have my word, that video DID happen! Not sure if it's still around though. Also... what's wrong with me bringing up Doug Walker? Did something happen?
Feels to me like both The Batman and Teen Titans ended the same way that season 5 of both shows focused on many other superheros and did not focus on the main characters as much.
For me the mystery around it stems largely from the way her exit was done. She wasn’t “written out” per se since there was no explanation given as to her disappearance, she’s just there one episode and suddenly gone the next. Night in the City (her final appearance) literally focuses on her journey and ends with her getting PROMOTED and becoming an official sidekick to Batman. It felt like a cliffhanger almost, like how will their relationship develop from here? Then the show goes out of its way to never use her again, including a very conspicuous absence in Ethan Bennett’s next spotlight Clayfaces. Like you said, Yin was integral to the Bruce-Ethan dynamic and they talk about their history together in that episode without even mentioning her? Using the flashback with clayface assuming her likeness was just salt in the wound. Theres no way when 2.13 was written, it was intended to be her final appearance. Just kind of a bummer cause she was one of the largest contributions this show gave to the Batman mythos (with a person of color no less) and then they just pretended it never happened.
Even a single line in the season 3 opener from Gordon about her “stepping down to spend time with family” or Batman alluding to a former partner who he isn’t working with anymore would’ve been so easy. Instead we will all be speculating until the end of time.
Don’t get me started on Clayfaces. The episode where Bennett, firmly established to have been completely consumed by his Clayface persona is suddenly back to his paragon self and seeking forgiveness, simply so that the more Comic accurate Basil Karlo can take the reins as Clayface instead. Feels more and more like a hasty retcon the more I think about it.
@@intergalactic92 He was never completely consumed, though. He always wanted to go back to being a good guy, but he knew that a part of him would never change. He was always trying to get back to his old self
Please don't reduce people to a checkbox. There is no need to bring out a colour swatch. Believe it or not, Asians and Hispanics and Black people are people too. Thank you.
I really loved The Batman. While not quite as good as Batman The Animated Series, some characters like Catwoman, Hugo Strange, Batgirl and surprisingly Firefly were handled much better than in BTAS. It also has one of the best alternative versions of Clayface and I absolutely loved Robert Englund as the Riddler and is probably my second favourite Riddler after Wally Wingert from the Arkham games.
Strange deffinetly had the biggest glowup. Robert Englund as Riddler was a really inspired choice as well that I find cool.
Controversial take: This show's Clayface story was a better "The Killing Joke" than "The Killing Joke". And I don't just mean the movie. It's better than the comic, too. The comic is a brilliant display of *craft,* but what this show did in loosely adapting its ideas elevated the *story* above what it originally was.
I really wish the show runners had been allowed to use Two Face and Scarecrow. Robert Englund would be an awesome voice for Crane.
@@leithaziz2716 Think this was the biggest use of Strange before Arkham City. He had a really good showing here, still love his role in the zombie episode and the finale with the Joining. "I told the Joining you were the most dangerous one of them all, but no, they only wanted the ones with powers."
@@Swenglish The Clayface story is so good, on par with any of the TAS stories. Also love his follow up episode in Halloween, it is creative and creepy.
It puzzled me that she was just casually written off. Really weird they did that to her a really cool character. Ethan being written off made sense but she just poofed.
Yeah a lot of the old dynamics of seasons 1-2 were dropped once Batgirl entered the picture. Hell even the title themes reflected this shift.
Ethan wasn't even genuinely written off like her, since he got another episode in season 4 where he got closure to his arc and relationship with Batman/Bruce.
@@Robalexe I forgot about that. I need to rewatch it
Ellen deserved more love and attention than she already has. I feel like she was dealt with a bad hand. Hopefully someone will bring her back. Either the comics or Matt Reeves Batman series would be cool.
Man it would be ironic given the title of the latter. As well as the fact that The Batman already has a Gordon.
Though honestly it would be cool if she remained played by the same actress if she did.
Could have been worse imagine if the erasher had got her.
Matt Reeves’ co-writer on The Batman II, Mattson Tomlin (who also contributed uncredited to the first film), wrote a book similar in tone and direction to the first film called Batman: The Imposter. It had Bruce go through a tragic romance with an Asian GCPD officer that reminded me of Ellen from this show. So I’d say it’s possible they got that route.
@@rcbmmines4579 I hope her name is Ellen.
@@X_Blake unfortunately not, she was detective Blair Wong. Still recommend The Imposter either way. She’s almost like Ellen Yin mixed with a bit of Andrea Beaumont from Mask of the Phantasm. Like Bruce her parents were also murdered when she was a child.
I think the first theory that Yin was dropped because of a change of direction is the most likely one, considering other GCPD characters from seasons 1 and 2 also didn't appear with Bennet only showing up once. If it was just a case of the actress being unavailable, then I see no reason to drop the character and not simply recast her, since it's more common practice in voice acting in comparison to on-screen actors.
And honestly, it is an incredible shame that Ellen was simply dropped ones the show decided to use more classic characters, cause I do think she could have stuck around at least as a supporting character.
Don’t forget the show version of clay face got replaced with one more similar to the comics.
I think that just leads more evidence to “make things more like other Batman media” angle.
@@JohnWilliams-wl9pxwhich was a shame, since the show didn't _need_ to be like other Batman media. Too bad the Timm-ies raised too much hell.
@@nicholasfarrell5981just one of many reasons I struggle to watch TAS, part of it is the animation style which I do genuinely struggle with, but it is also out of spite for how they refused to give The Batman a chance.
Around the time the Batman ended that was definitely the case it’s almost like studios didn’t want to do action anymore
I always thought it was weird how Yin just disappeared between seasons two and three. Really enjoyed the first four seasons of this show, but when they tried to do the whole super friends team up thing in season five it felt very hit or miss.
I loved working on this series as a character designer. I am always stoked when folks discuss it. I always liked Detectives Yin and Bennett.🤘
As always, this video was a keen discussion you put out there!😊
I think it was stupid that Detective Ellen Yin was written out of The Batman animated series after the second season finale. She became better liked when she became partners with Batman after realizing that Gotham City needs him. The characters just act like as if she never existed in the first place.
Who did you help design?
@@greenrandall143 all manner of folks. I did a lot of Clayface stuff. I worked on the show Seasons 1-3 and The Batman vs Dracula.
I've always been curious about the design of Joker in The Batman. Let me preface by saying I think it's one of the best designs for the character and I really like how his hair gives him this look of a psychotic and deranged jester.
But why didn't y'all put little bells on his dreads? Jester hats typically have bells. Has anyone else ever asked this?
@@glenngriffon8032 I always thought that Jeff Matsuda really did something fun and interesting with that design!
Ellen Yin was a really cool character and much like The Batman deserves a lot more attention
I liked the earlier season of this show, because it was more about Bruce working things out -- the first Joker episode, the first Riddler episode and Killer Croc's first appearance spring to mind.
Also the Cluemaster episode was darker than a lot of people remember.
What was dark about clue master?
@kwayneboy1524 he let a loss in his childhood turn him into his costumed persona, all because he was a sore loser. If Timm & Dini would've made that take on the character, it would be beloved.
@@kwayneboy1524he was going to dunk his childhood nemeses into acid, in a game that was rigged in his favour (and he tried to do it anyway when he lost). That is pretty dark.
Ellen Yin reminds me of Terri Lee from Spider-Man TAS, another made for TV detective who was antagonistic toward their hero then would later become a police contact of sorts. Though granted Terri's arc was much shorter, but the connection always hit me, especially since neither got the Renee Montoya treatment like they probably should have.
I always thought this character was supposed to be a Jean DeWolff analog. I was very young when the show was released and never really rewatched it.
I wish Spiderman TAS got more attention because i think it is by far the best Spiderman show but people always seems to focus on and talk about Spectacular Spiderman.
She was since the John Semper Jr didn’t want to use characters that were “destined” to die
The Batman is an underrated gem and an undisputable part of our childhood. I specially loved the wacky edgy 2000's designs they gave to Joker snd Solomon Grundy
The fight with Dracula still makes my Halloween watchlist
Spoilers
Shout out to the tie in comic for confirming there was an actual Solomon Grundy, not just Clayface donning a disguise. Neat take that this version wasnt a full on villain so long as you steered clear of his swamp.
@@Future_VantasI love how they should him as a near unstoppable force of nature
I always found odd that Ellen Yin never appeared in any Batman media besides this show. Other characters I haven't seen in other Batman media are the Penguin's henchwomen, the Kabuki twins. Always found those two interesting.
Wasn't there a woman from the Catwoman two-part episode who later became part of the official Batman comics, years after her appearance in Batman: The Animated Series? It's strange that they chose her over other underrated characters from the Batman cartoon media who have more than just a one-shot appearance. Even the rocket girl from The New Batman Adventures cartoon has made it into the mainstream comics and recently appeared in Justice League Action. It doesn't seem fair.
She was named after a character in Dark Knight Returns
The Kabuki Twins were in The Lego Batman Movie.
I always wanted Temblor to graduate to the comics, he was wildly underused as a hireling that wasn't as invested in the gimmicky kookiness as the other Bat-foes.
Also D.A.V.E., they definitely deserved another outing.
@@NitwitsWorld well that was because her creator was writing for the comics and Action.
I would love to hear you talk more about this show!
Ethan would make a great addition to the Claylist
I agree, I miss the “Clay family”. I love to see Ethan Bennet and Matt Hagen come back into the main continuity.
Imagine if a series starred Killer Croc, multiple claysface, and went on from there being a psychological detective thriller like Psycho-Pass.
Yes please!
Seconded. This show had some real banger episodes, like Deja Vu or the zombie outbreak. Plus I like how they built up the Justice League.
It's gradually coming to my attention how many awesome characters Ming-Na Wen voiced from my childhood pre-Agents of SHIELD. She's so cool.
Now hopefully she'll voice in a Studio Ghibli film.
Regarding the Bat Embargo, contracts and exclusive options are also an issue. If someone is developing a movie, for example, you do not want your ideas to coincidentally pop up in any other project that A) get to an audience first and therefore reduce enthusiasm for your project and B) you do not want another project with coincidental ideas fail and therefore mark your identical or similar take set up to fail.
I get it, but also we got robbed of having Nightwing from showing up in JLU and that makes me sad
As I recall, Greg Weisman was involved with this show and Gargoyles. I wonder if her similarities to Eliza were his idea or someone else's.
He also wrote the season 4 episode where she’s mentioned
@@Able406 Ah, carrying that continuity torch.
As I recall, Greg Weisman has addressed the Elisa/Ellen similarities on his Ask Greg website. If I'm remembering his answer correctly, he said he wasn't involved in her creation/design (since he was only ever a freelance writer, not a staff writer/showrunner). I believe he said he doesn't even know if the design similarities are intentional or not.
Detective Ellen Yin was played Ming Na Wen who also played Mulan and SHIELD Agent Melinda May.
Ellen Yin was a cool character and I liked her dynamic with Batman (it would have been nice if she figured out Batman identity but chooses to protect his identity). Ming Na Wen did an awesome voicing the character and its a shame she disappeared after season 2.
First off, we need more people talking about this show. I love Matsuda's style. His Batman design is one of my faves. The fight choreography was dope!
I think Yin was cool but I remember not being upset when they moved on in season 3. They could have written in a line of her going back to Metropolis at the beginning to give it some closure. That would have worked as when they got to introduce Supes in season 5 she could have made an appearance in that episode. I think she worked well in Batman's early outings but having him transition into a mentor role made it feel like Batman himself had finally become the experienced Batman we know.
Plus I think the iconography of Bats and Gordon is just too strong. Especially with the Nolan movies success at the time.
I liked the first theme way more than the second theme.
Edit: To be fair though, i feel more people look back fondly on this than Beware the Batman.
The difference is this show was actually pretty great if you could divorce yourself from BTAS. Beware was just a misfire on pretty much every level
The Batman was always my favorite batcartoon alongside btas since I was a kid, it took the lore and successfully made it modern & badass.
Yin was a great new addition to the show, given well rounded development from being against Batman to technically being the first member of the batfamily.
It’s strange that they wrote her off but at least she wasn’t forgotten, she becomes commissioner in artifacts.
So stoked you’re talking about The Batman since I do think it had some great moments. I’d love to see you talk about it’s rendition of Clayface and Riddler since those are some of my favourite interpretations of either character
Shout out to their take on Hugo Strange. It was my introduction to the character, and he was a pretty good villain, still love his role in the zombie episode. Heck this show gave me hype for Arkham City, was excited to see how they would use Strange in the game's plot.
Riddlers Revenge is one of my favorite Riddler stories
As much as I loved The Batman seasons three and four (season five was trash), I really did miss the characters from the earlier seasons like Yin and Bennett. And Cash Tankinson. Every Batman adaptation needs more Cash Tankinson. And the original theme song was better.
And I really doubt that if Ming-Na Wen was suddenly unavailable, for whatever reason, they'd just drop the character. Kids WB would not have hesitated to recast the VA if they wanted to keep using her. It was definitely a creative decision.
I always felt like it was just the progression of Batman's story from lone vigilante to working with the police to working with sidekicks but he still had a good relationship with Yin and the police.
Here's another mystery from The Batman:
Apparently in the episode Cash For Toys the villain called Toymaker appears except.... he was never refered as such in the episode and every forums and wikis somehow refer to him as if it was his official name despite him being only refered to by his given name Cosmo Krank, it is speculated that the Toymaker was given that name from a promo for the episode yet it didnt seem to exist
This show was my first introduction to Batman. It holds a very dear place in my heart. I remember seeing Catwoman get arrested by Batman and I don't believe we got to see more of her/see her escape from Arkham :( broke my little heart
For some reason they just stopped using her. It’s like they ran out of ideas or something.
@@intergalactic92 That's such a shame because Selina is quite interesting when it comes to Batman's villain gallery: she's a villain, yes, but she doesn't actively try to hurt/kill civilians -- only rob them. There's also the romantic attraction between Bruce and Selina, and the cat and "mouse" chase aspect of their relationship. Catwoman definitely had a lot of potential. If I had a guess, they wanted to be original and distance themselves from the Batman Animated series; hence why most, if not all, of the villains feel different
I always chalked it up to creative changes. One thing I liked abut the early seasons of The Batman was that the character models were original and interesting. The models at the end of the series were virtually indistinguishable from the Bruce Timm designs. It felt like a totally different (but disturbingly familiar) show.
I enjoyed the hell out of this show, and I wish they did way more with this character. I thought she was a great addition to the extended cast of batman related auxiliary characters, and she reminded me a lot of the also underused GCPD badass Renee Montoya.
Thankfully, althought being a bit underdeveloped in TAS, in the comics she blossomed in GCPD and then becoming one of the best legacy characters as Question. In a way, I think she is the anti Harley, who I think only really works in a cartoon context, cause she's so... cartoony.
Ellen Yin must have blinked and was displaced by a Weeping Angel.
Lol
I love the Harley Quinn episode on this show. Really cool that they got Dini back to write it too. I have always had a sneaking suspicion that he’s a little salty over not being involved in the Max show. Maybe I’m just making that up though
This was actually my first ever Batman show, it the thing that makes into a Batman fan!
The Batman is how I was originally introduced to Bruce Wayne/Batman (after watching Batman Beyond). For me, this series will always have a special place for me. I'm so happy to see it getting talked about and would love to see more. It definitely deserves more recognition, in my opinion. Having characters like Yin made the series more mature. Once Batgirl & Robin were introduced, you had a sort of regression, from my perspective, especially for younger audiences who watched it from the start. Almost like a reverse of most young adult cartoons. See Teen Titans where the themes around Robin & the rest of the team became more serious as seasons passed, for a good example.
Mostly true, but there were standouts post Season 2. Deja Vu, the zombie outbreak, Artifacts, Black Mask debut, that one with the duplicates, Riddler's origin story, all a cut above the other standard kids show fare.
It could be like Smallville. Started having original characters, but got written out in order to align with the original Superman story.
With how much The Batman 2004 feels like modernization of Silver Age Batman with creators re-inventing many characters and showing them in the new ways, I feel that Ellen Yin if given chance could have become Batwoman of that universe. It would be her final trensformation from policewoman who dislike vigilantism to the one who embraces it, and since Batman in the version doesn't have any romantic feelings towards Catwoman he could settle with Yin with them being partners in crimefight and life.
and it would validate my 14 year old ship😂
Ming-na Wen (the voice of Mulan) portrayed Yin?
That's delightful!
How did I not notice the similarity till now?
Also: While I do agree that Yin had wrapped up her story and wasn't needed for the last two seasons, she should have gotten a proper send off. Like getting a job promotion that had her to move away from Gotham. Just something.
I liked her and it always bothered me that she just disappeared from the show.
A character in a show should never just disappear. They have writers. Write them out. Something as simple as Gordan says she moved to Bludhaven for a promotion. It's as simple as that
I adored The Batman, had one of my favorite takes on the character and his world (the Joker here actually rivals Mark Hamil's Joker for me). Ethan and Ellen were two of my absolute favorite characters in the show, and their stories were always guaranteed to have me invested in them. The tragedy that Bruce was going to tell Ethan the truth, only for him to become Clayface and Ellen to halfway take that position Bruce was hoping for him to take was bittersweet. It honestly helped build the two up as a great team, and they had lots of great episodes to help it even more. Honestly, I ship them together because they work that well in my mind
I LOVED this show as a kid (the joker from this series was weird though as a brawler, but was definitely more of a “joker” than the regular joker ya know?) I especially loved him having emotions (unlike modern Batman) and actually using the Bruce Wayne persona to investigate and portray him as a human being with friends and colleagues.
Preach! Espec that last line about him having emotions (espec when it comes to parenting Dick, MY FEELS!) and actually showing Bruce as a person! SO true! One of my fave things about it!
It seems like after season 2 they got rid of all of thier own original characters and just introduced more characters from the comics
To be honest I've always loved Detective Ellen Yin because her and Batman made quite the Duo but also in my point of view I always seen them as a shipped couple.. I enjoyed their vibes alot almost like a couple would. I do hope someday she could return again or perhaps get some mention or recognition during movies, shows, and video games too..
What's weird is i've always had a false memory with this show of Yin having an actual goodbye scene at the end of season 2. I watched the season 2 finale when it first aired when i was a kid, and i remember her having an actual departure. Which would make sense narratively, with Gordon and Batgirl on the way, the timing would've been right to have Yin leave Gotham if they wanted to write her out. But of course this scene didn't actually happen, and every time i rewatch The Batman i'm reminded she just disappears. She was a great character though, and i'm glad to see her get more love. She could've at least had a guest appearance in Ethan Bennett's last Clayface episode in season 4. Speaking of which, a video just focused on his version of Clayface would be great!
I could have sworn that in the earlier episodes of that season Gordon says that Yin went back to Metropolis, but it's been a year or 2 since I last binged the series, I guess that wasn't the case. I don't remember any sort of episode going deep into Yin's departure but, like you, I have this memory of Gordon just saying that she left the GPD and that was it.
This is really cool and I think it's awesome you are talking about one of the series that don't get talked about as often around UA-cam and stuff
I never understood why the producers took her out from the series by Bat-girl, because even if Barbara took her place as the companion of Batman, Yin easily could takes a similar role like Montoya, an officer that is always with Gordon, especially to consider that the commissioner allowed her be still in the police force.
Making a waste that Yin disappeared from the plot by Bat-girl.
My favorite BTS detail of this series is how they kept trying to adapt Hush over and over and DC would never let them.
My question about that series is why did they create Ellen Yin instead of using the more established character of Renee Montoya?
Also, the question about vigilantes in comics always bugs me. It seems to me that a true vigilante is someone who acts as judge and jury against criminals, like the Punisher or the like. You know, one of those characters who crosses the line and clearly goes too far. Whereas most superheroes, especially the older, more traditional ones, simply stop criminal actions, something well within the rights of any citizen, and if they capture the criminal, they turn them over to the authorities for trial and conviction. Citizen's arrest is another citizen right. And yet many people *seem* to think there's something wrong with private citizens fighting crime under almost any circumstances, and call it vigilanteism. Sure, there are risks of untrained people trying to fight crime, but there are also risks to not doing anything and leaving it all to the "professionals" to handle, especially if they can't or won't handle it. But rarely, if ever, do characters like Superman, Flash, or Wonder Woman get called vigilantes, as Batman does. Is it because they have superpowers or exotic backgrounds? The implications of that are both interesting and disturbing.
I'd like to see someone do a deep dive into vigilanteism and comics.
It's not like the live action movies or shows at the time were using Renee Montoya maybe they didn't want it to be a copy of BTAS?
Agree. Batman actually has a relationship with the police, the Batsignal and Hotline phone being about as "official" as is possible. The vast majority of heroes don't have such a relationship, unless it's through a superhero team of which they're a member.
It's not just acting as judge, jury and executioner by taking the life of criminals that garners the label of vigilante. It's also the means in which criminals are located and apprehended, which often involves trespassing and breaking and entering into both private and public property without a warrant, violations of privacy via illegal surveillance and hacking, interference with crime scenes, as well as straight up physical assault and property damage, all of which Batman, in multiple incarnations has been guilty of doing. This isn't a simple act of castle doctrine and citizen's arrest, the latter of which in both federal and state law is already particular about what a citizen is and isn't allowed to do (the least of which often includes being present when the authorities come to apprehend the suspect and testifying in court as a witness - the latter of which Batman virtually NEVER does). Hunting for crime is Batman's Modus Operandi, one which he's willing to use any means necessary to meet.
We can support and condone Batman's vigilantism because it's fiction and he's the protagonist we root for. But even something as distant and benign as internet vigilantism can and has made criminal investigations actively harder rather than easier. I think it's perfectly legitimate to have criticisms and questions as to whether or not vigilantism is ethical or effective. As for why Batman is singled out rather than Superman or Wonder Woman or the Flash, I think it's because Batman is meant to be more grounded and down to earth compared to the other heroes and is thus judged by a moral compass more close to ours rather than the simplistic binary of other heroes, and also that most people in universe know that he's an ordinary person who is actively concealing his identity behind a mask to duck accountability, whereas Superman and Wonder Woman (dunno about Flash) are treated as other-worldly deities and most people in universe don't even think they have a separate identity to hide in the first place.
@@NitwitsWorld If I knew, I wouldn't have bothered to ask. I'm not even sure when these shows occurred without looking it up, because I watched all of them *after* they had been broadcast. Always playing catch-up.
@@macsnafu mmhmm indeed fam
Thank you for the vibe of your channel. No matter what you're covering in one of your vids, I enjoy the content and the conversations in your comments with fellow viewers.
I may not watch every vid or comment frequently, but I appreciate the healthy/ positive vibe whenever I check in.
This was my childhood the first batman series I wanted. I liked detective yin and then later I found out that Melinda May from agent of shield voiced her, which made me like the character even more
Is really disappointing when she disappeared because by all intense purposes she helped batmans evolution season one to season five to becoming a team player
I love The Batman. I love all the changes and deviations they took just to make something different unique but still very much Batman. Ellen Yin is one of my favorite side characters, along with Bennett of course, and probably a bit surprisingly Chief Rojas. I lalso ove the look of the show, there's a sleekness to things that just works really well.
Awesome video. Character integrity is huge for us fans. Great job highlighting that in a non-cringy way.
Unpopular Opinion: The Batman > Teen Titans
I was born in 2001 and grew up watching this show, I loved Yin and Benett even when I was a kid, the writers created a duo of police characters that held my attention just as much as Batman and his villains when they were on screen much like Bullock, Montoya, and Gordon could in BTAS/TNBA. I love that they both change dramatically over time and the Riddled episode in S2 with Yin and Batman is a highlight episode from the whole series in my opinion.
There's a pretty hard shift during and after S3 in cast and tone, while i've watched every episode and think on the whole the show does a lot right I for sure have the most nostalgia and appreciation for the first two seasons, mostly for it feeling like its own world and story for Batman. Bringing in the Batfamily and the Justice League is fun for a time but suddenly it feels a lot more like a watered down DCAU. The first two seasons are doing their own thing and it works well.
This show was part of my childhood and hence holds a special place in my heart. While there are stuff I really don't like anymore, like Bane for instance, it's still a good watch. The episode with the time warping dad is still a really good one and this shows version of Manbat still haunts my dreams XD.
Plus the first intro music still slaps
Well thought and well written. You made sitting through a comprehensive history piece into a refreshing nostalgia of this very different era.
Great video, and her background set-up is awesome with all the different books and merch. She has my attention.
So excited to see Sasha talk about The Batman! I loved the show growing up, the style was captivating and the tone felt more approachable at my age after seeing the often more serious and scary BTAS.
Fun fact: Ellen Yin was based on a character named Commissioner Ellen Yindel in Frank Miller’s celebrated The Dark Knight Returns. Though she reminds me of Renee Montoya in personality and design.
Fun fact she literally covered that at 5:00. Damn your attention span, or need to boast couldn't last 5 mins?
She could have become this universe's question
She literally says that in the video...
Awesome, you actually made a video on it!!! Amazing.
At least they got Ming-Na Wen back for DC Showcase: The Losers.
Yin was such a great character; I wish they could have done more with her.
I always thought she was supposed to be Renee Montoya/ the question but the Batman show couldn’t get the ok to use that name so they change it and when she disappear .. she became what she was always meant to be the question
That's an interesting theory.
You right , after Batgirl come on the show the detective was just gone
You're videos are literally sharper than wolverines claws. Just some of the best content out there
I just love "The Batman", it was so unique and creative and fresh. The stlyle, the art, the concept, the characters, the story, I love every single thing about it. And it was my second Batman midia, just after the "Justice League", so it has a special place in my mind and heart.
And I love Ellen Yin too, she was a very competent cop with a well defined moral and ethical view and a well rounded character. I never hated her, and it's nice to see people with different approaches to the vigilants, specially Batman. I don't think it was necessary, but her arc is well done and interesting, which made her even more complex.
It's sad they cut her off the show, even if I love all the seasons and Batgirl is one of my favorites.
Loved this series! It'd be awesome for Ellen Yin to appear in future Batman media
I always wondered what happened to her, glad I’m not the only one, great video!
I have yet to watch the 2004 Batman series, so I thank you for taking the time to discuss Ellen. I wish she was given a chance to appear in another reiteration of Batman, whether animated or live action.
Loved this show and the character of Yin. She was badass and a great counterpart as a skeptic eventually changing her mind
As someone who saw this shiw since it started to air, It always made me feel Painful when se just stop to appear after season 3 despite being no only a great Character, but also a Key element of the plot 💔
I'd like to learn more about the "Beware the Batman" show. It only had about a 2-year run. It utilized a different set of villains (mostly B- and C-list) to fulfill similar roles in the Bat's usual Rougues' Gallery, but it fleshed them out to make them more interesting. Also, his allies are different, and they seem to get their own development arcs.
Yesss, The Batman was the Batman cartoon I grew up with. I loved it so much as a kid! Still love it now, the growth Batman goes on during the show is great. Yin and Bennett are the 2 tragedies of this show. I wish we had more of her. Seeing her interact more with Gordon would've been great! What would've been her thoughts on Batman incorporating children into his world? Loved the video. I hope we get more vids on this show. 😊
This my definitive Batman to thia day. As a kid i was wondering why she never showed up post season 3 and was only mentioned once and thought it was baffling they made that decision.
It seems like after season 2 they got rid of all of thier own original characters and just introduced more characters from the comics
Honestly couldn't get into The Batman for a long time due to my brain not enjoying the art change 😂 but once I grew up I watched it again and it's one of the best Batman animated series made.
It always did bother me that she vanished in the third season! Thanks for making a video on her!
Just found this channel, already following it🔥
I’m in favor of more Ming-Na Wen in all media forms
Really would be cool if they worked her and Ethan Bennett into canon at some point.
Ellen Yin and that time Batman fought Dracula were some of my favourite parts of that show. I hadn’t really thought about this show in years until this video. Thanks for reminding me of how great it was.
While I wasn’t old enough to watch the show and actually retain full memories of it, I do remember playing the old computer games for the show. It was such a different vibe than other Batman media, and that theme…oh god the season 1 theme is what I loved and knew of most. I remember when Netflix first added the show years ago, didn’t get to go through it fully but I loved being able to binge it through majority of season 1. Sasha if possible, please dive deeper into the lore and such! This series needs more recognition!!!
I wish she stayed around on the show (tbh I miss the show in general). She was one of my favorite characters in this show (along with my favorite version of the joker).
This was my batman and also brave and the bold
This video came out at the perfect time for me, as I just started watching the Batman not too long ago, and I’m almost finished with season one. I never gave it a chance as a kid. I binge watched Batman the animated series with my brother and then went straight to the Batman, hoping for more content like that, and gave up as soon as I saw the Joker. I hated how different it was. But now as an adult, I can appreciate new takes on an old tale. I’ve consumed so much Batman content over the years. I decided to give the Batman another go and I’m enjoying it a lot more this time around!
Once you get over the character reimagining, it is a great show. The crossovers between the villains was always fun.
Fun analysis
Im watching this show now on Netflix. That is a good question. What did happen to her?
My thoughts are that maybe, in canon, she was transfered back to Metropolis. Things like that happen. Also, I always wondered if Superman was a thing in the show. Felt like he was hinted at, but it would have been interesting to see more, like a news article mentioning him, or any other heroes, for that matter.
It’s been a long time since I’ve seen this series, and Yin’s arc is what I remember the most. Not only am I a sucker for good character arcs, but it’s what made this show stand out from other Batman incarnations. I would have liked to have seen more of her. But at least what they did give us of her was really good.
FINALLY IVE BEEN WANTING THIS VID
I liked when Batgirl was added, but it always bothered me that Yin just disappeared at the same time. I always thought she was a great character who was one of the first GCPD to recognize Batman as the hero Gotham needed. She should've at least appeared in the episode where Batman cured Ethan Bennett her former police partner who she had a genuine friendship with.
I shipped em
Same lol
This was the series I grew up with as a kid, had all the seasons on dvd. I loved the villain designs and art direction, and even looking back with more knowledge of the comics and what certain characters are "supposed" to be like, I still love some of the interpretations this show gave. Like Bane!!! Very cool Bane!!!! Plus the series also had some decent original villains, though the most incredible was the Everywhere Man. I always love villains who challenge Bruce's double life directly.
this batman will always be my definitive batman. It would be pretty nice if more content for it was made one day