{Split the Veil-Ep.35} DA Choices! Dragon Age: Origins Edition
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- Опубліковано 5 лют 2025
- Hello and Welcome, Welcome to Split the Veil! Listen to Jordan of Exalted March, and Caitie of Ghildirthalen explore the world of podcasting and Bioware games. In this episode: Caitie and Jordan go over a few of their favorite choices in Dragon Age Origins, from starting point, to Orzammar, to the myriad of choices during the landsmeet, to why Morrigan should or shouldn't be stabbed.
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All Episodes of this will contain story spoilers for Bioware games and other related media.
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It was actually the choice of how to help the woman and her baby in Dust Town that made me want to play the game. I remember watching my husband play when it came out and seeing random bits and not being very interested. Then that moment happened and I was amazed that he could tell her to leave her baby in the deep roads, reconcile with her old fashioned family, or go to the surface and start a new life. This has no effect on anything in the game except this dwarf, but what a great story decision you get to make in the midst of all the other things going on. I was hooked from that moment and have been obsessed ever since.
#TeamAnora ruling alone!!
Also am I the only one who never felt like the dark ritual was Morrigan "betraying" you?? My first thought was "wow we have an option that doesn't involve Alistair or my warden dying! Amazing! Thank you Morrigan!" I didn't care at all about the consequences of the ritual 😂
Mikasi33 yeah no I totally don’t get how Morrigan betrays anyone.
Her reasoning for keeping it to herself until the end is sound and she’s reasonable open about what she’s going to do after the fight...
Maybe it’s because I’ve never played a Warden that’s romanced Alistair
@@ducky36F there's this weird conversation with Morrigan if you romance Alistair and the two of you are friends. She asks how he is in bed (same as Leliana does) but when you answer she says "That's...good to know."
It kinda reinforces just how long she's been planning on doing this ritual. Some people may see it as a betrayal of their friendship - regardless of your gender or romance choices - that everything she did was to obtain the power and soul of the Old God.
Morrigan even admits in Inquisition to Flemeth that her original purpose for creating OGB!Keiran was to use him for his power. But we all know that thankfully she decided to raise him as a normal child.
Still, although I don't see Morrigan as a traitor I see how others might given that context. Especially sinve if you refuse her offer she straight up leaves you to die without seeing anything through, further reinforcing that she cared about nothimg but the Old God and his power.
17:00 had a dude here on youtube who I followed, he also played the game from an D&D RP perspective where he would roleplay like many others do.
he made a deal with Zathrian and he saw that as his character making a ''promise'' to remove the threat, then when the dunce followed the story he'd argued that his character would STILL
insist on killing the lady, despite realizing the keeper withheld information from him. since he'd made a ''promise'' his character would not get back down from it(wich was fine, his char his game).
the problem was that he was misunderstanding people disliking his character, he'd argue that he would play it like that and people couldn't change it, where the people told him that his character was an idiot for upholding a promise made under false oath. (it also didn't help this was the first time he was THIS lawful to not back down from a promise)
TBH the Bhelen is a 'tyrant' thing, is a silly argument. He's not the leader of a modern democracy. He is running a dying dwarven empire and killing of opposition is par for the course for a medieval king. Sure, a president or prime-minister, big no no. But this guy rules the last vestige of an empire, desperately clinging to what little ground is left.
The politics of his little city sized 'empire' is extremely cutthroat and more or less very rich in intrigue, perhaps similar to the Orlesians and Tevene dudes. So ofcourse you need some scheming cutthroat asshole to rule them. The monarch needs to outwit not only foreign enemies, but also their own plotting aristocracy.
In Bhelen's Dwarven empire, the political opposition (probably deshyrs) suffers during his rule. But the previously second class people are lifted up along with some general 'opening up' in terms of trade. Overall, his redeeming quality is worth it, he basically desegregates dwarven society.
Harrowmont isn't the more benevolent option imho. In Harrowmont's empire, there are still political dissidents being oppressed. Sure, maybe no direct slaying of political rivals, instead the continuation of silencing the lowest class in society. I'm referring to the continued screwing over of the casteless... Which is basically like segregation as far as I can see. So to say that Harrowmont is less brutal/tyrannical is silly. Both are brutal, but brutal against different people, for different ends. So why not pick the one that wants to improve trade and end a bad tradition?
Mike ` since realising this, I have always picked Bhelen - as much of a loser as he is, he is the better king :D
I feel like If you aren't a Dwarven noble, you should always choose Bhelen. Your non Dwarven Warden doesn't "really" know he killed his father and siblings and can only go by what he said she said. As a Dwarven noble Warden you obviously have some hesitations about siding with him, but you if aren't, and especially if you're a castless Warden you should always choose Bhelen.
You do realise modern democracies were created as an answer to tyranny. The standard by which tyranny is acceptable or not isn't determined by the time in which we live, but in the human (or dwarven ...) capacity to tolerate that tyranny. And nobody, no people will abide a tyrant forever. Also, if you're going to counsel sympathy for a tyrant, that's going to ring hollow if you can't balance it with sympathy for all the lives that tyrant will destroy. Hint: it's not going to come out equal.
I'm still not sure whether Bhelen was a greedy bastard that got lucky on policy, or an ambitious revolutionary that was determined to drag Orzammar kicking and screaming into the modern age. Either way, he's what Orzammar needed.
Dwarven culture was never going to shift by degrees- it was too old, too steeped in tradition, and far too short on time. Bhelen won't be remembered fondly, but his revolution gave the dwarves a chance- one which Harrowmont and the conservative Deshyrs would have never provided. Socially, economically, and martially, things improved under his rule. It came at a cost yes, but all things do.
I'll not argue that he was a good man in the same way that I'll not argue Nobunaga was a good man, but much like Nobunaga, Bhelen's society would be far worse off without him. The world functions in practice, not ideals. The pretty answer isn't always the right one, and a Warden, of all people, should recognize this.
it depends. Bhelen has the support of the lower castes. He could easily be remembered along the lines of Caesar or Augustus.
That’s also why there isn’t going to be a revolution any time soon. If lower classes are content with an “ally” on the throne, doing anything can put the upper classes in jeopardy. It’s one of the reasons the Roman Republic ended up failing, because Caesar had the support of the general population, even if the patricians hated his power grabs.
One thing I love is seeing characters from your origin afterwards. Meeting Jowan after mage origin during my first play through blew my mind. Also my preferred order is: Denerrim City, The Circle, Orzammar, Redcliffe, Brecillian Forest and then Urn of Sacred Ashes. Oh and Wardens Keep/ return to Ostagar somewhere between everything else.
Mine is Redcliffe, Circle, Ashes, Elves, Dwarves - the game does push you to do dwarves last as it's the hardest levels and that fight with Loghain's men is so you don't end up punching above your weight so to speak.
I have to say that I love the start to The Cousland Origin start but I hate that Origins absolutely ignores the fact that your family was murdered and it takes a backseat. Like way in the back....like being dragged by a chain 15 ft behind the car. I'm the opposite with Jordan I think the female Alienage Elf is my favorite origin because of how much motivation it gives the character to leave and be a hero because of that relationship to the mother. It reminds me a lot of the basic female heroes. Like Selene from Underworld
Also the City Elf Warden has equal motivation to see Loghain and Howe fall as they attempt to sell your family and people into slavery to fund their efforts in the Civil War.
My cannon warden is a Male Tabris.
Bryant isn't the city/aliengae elf the same?
@@josephmoore5422 Yes, and the surname is Tabris
@@geroleocata oh I was confused because that's the same character I was talking about so I thought you meant a different character
Unpopular opinion: I ALWAYS side with Bhelen as a dwarf noble, and never actually feel bad about putting him on the throne, if he doesn't have the Anvil.
You say Harrowmont's the better person, but that's... debatable. Considering that he supports a system that has women leaving their babies in the Deep Roads, and has survived for years in a society where fratricide and murder are considered A+ decisions, I'd say that he's not a "good person" either. He might be nice, but he's far from good.
Plus, Murderpope Leliana does almost the exact same thing Bhelen does when she's in power and Inquisition kinda reinforces Bhelen's the best choice (even if you're a dwarf noble... he actually puts an effort into looking for the Paragon, and builds you a super sweet statue while Harrowmont is petty and jelly so...).
Unpopular opinion? I feel like all I see are people choosing Bhelen. And the reasoning is always along the lines of 'Harrowmont is a seriously flawed choice, so we'll choose the obviously evil guy.' As if Bhelen is the guy who's going to be so brimful of compassion for those babies dying in the deep roads. Do you really think Bhelen would give a crap about the casteless if he didn't want to marry one? Do you think he'd hesitate to send his soldiers to steamroll any dwarf, casteless or not, as soon as they got in the way of his consolidation of power?
...yeah, because he’s a complicated character? He didn’t need to do what he did for the casteless. Look no further than Orlais and the Masked Empire. Celene kept promising to do stuff for the elves, partially because she had an elven lover, but still purged the alienage because she didn’t want to appear soft and have more suspicion fall on her relationship with Briala. Bhelen helps them out because it needs to be done for Orzammar to survive.
There is a lot of pragmatism behind this, obviously. Letting the casteless into the army means there’s more people to help fight darkspawn. It’s also why he accepts the help of the surfacers with the dwarven boon. However, he marries Rica when there’s no political need to. He has what he “needs” (an heir) but he does it anyway.
He’s a surprisingly complicated character and not just “obviously evil” (much like Celene). He’s a product of his environment, and Harrowmont is the one who’s dedicated to preserving that. Bhelen, ironically, helps ensure that there will be fewer Bhelen’s in the future, because he’s changing things. Orzammar’s society is the ultimate villain, above anyone else.
As a dwarf noble? 🤔 I understand choosing Bhelen as other classes but Bhelen literally pretends to be your best friend and then murders your brother and frames you for power. Meanwhile Harrowmount swears to clear your name.
Maybe if you see your dwarf as respecting Bhelens mastery of the game and disliking their life in orzammar you can justify it but even then...
As for going for “bigger picture” thinking I just don’t see how the evidence for Bhelan being so progressive is there before the ending slides... it’s kind of mentioned by the criers but not to the point where it sounds like he’s a revolutionary
@@ducky36F As a dwarf noble I also chose Bhelen and enjoyed the choice enormously. At first I sided with Harrowmont, but as I learned more of his politics, I found myself disagreeding with him. Bhelen was ideologically closer to what I believed in, even if I hated him as a person (in no small part because I opted for a face tattoo before I knew the context - I was new to the game - so I reasoned that getting it was her way of making some sort of point). Orzammar was still "my" city. And he was still of my house. In a way, Bhelen's conspiracy was well executed, even if I found myself at the bottom of it. Whatever he was, he was still the person who could keep our house afloat. At the end of the day, I would hate taking power away from my house. I let him think I'm with his opponent for as long as I could to teach him a lesson before flipping around.
In short, I chose Bhelen because I like facial tattoos.
Yeah even as a dwarf noble I still put Bhelen on the throne. Yeah the people were said to have wanted my princess on the throne because she was a genuinely kind and good person and would've done the best she could for her people (and she was also very progressive), but she was naive and frankly too nice to have survived on the dwarven throne. She accomplished far more good as a warden than she would have as a ruler. Yes Bhelen was ruthless but that's dwarven politics. It was enough for her that her father knew she wasn't guilty and had wanted her forgiveness for exiling her.
Favorite origin is dwarf commoner. She was my second playthtrough and by far my most memorable one. Everything was still new to me that second time around and I didn't know everything that could happen.
First off, I went to the circle of magi and accidentally invoked the right of annulment. I picked the dialogue of 'If we let even one Blood Mage live, we may regret it later.' which led to annulment. I had no idea what I had done at the time.
So with the Mages out of the picture I had no chance to save everyone at Redcliff. I didn't think my Warden would try to use jowan's scetcy retual, and yea it was sad for Connor but how many kids would have already been killed in the village because of this mess? Dealing with Connor directly was simply the most responsible thing to do at that time (so my Warden thought).
So after the boss fight with possessed Connor I was surprised to see Isolde running into the room (seriously Teagen, what the hell?) and she started pleading for her sons live. Her stuttering terrified words of 'ye- your a woman! What if this was your son. Tell me you wouldn't move mountains to save him. Please, he is my baby!' convinced my Warden to back down.
Than we get a scene of Connor and Isolde having a conversation and Connor asking his mother to make the pain go away, and the Demon once more briefly possessing Connor's broken body to show its disdain towards Isolde. After that Isolde, in a broken voice, admits that he cannot be saved. My Warden even suggested Jowan's ritual but Isolde seemed to have given up (don't remember the exact lines). She ends up killing Connor herself.
I remembered being stunned by all of that. After that, that scene was canon for me (at least for that Warden, which I view as one of my main ones).
I sided with Bhelen becouse well, you are the Dwarven Commoner, which is like the only playthtrough where you have legit reasons for backing him. I did pick him with other origins, but in retrospect I regret doing that. The epilogue slides are proven false anyway when they mention in DA:I Harromont is still king 15 years later. And I also dispute that Bhelen gives a damn about the castless. Rica was his mistress, not his wife. He is only comfirmed to have married her if you had a Dwarf Commoner inport, in which case, due to her brother being a parragon, Rica isn't a castless.
I preserved the Anvil of the Void in that playthrough with DC, and I end up doing that with about 40% of my wardens. It all depends on how confident your Warden is in being able to beat this Blight without the Anvil's aid. From a RP perspective its extremely easy to see siding with Branka as a necessary choice. If you end up failing in your mission because of 'doing the right thing' here than none if it will matter. Fixing house can wait until the house is no longer on fire. I always wish there was 'Side with Branka now, but come back later once the world is no longer in danger of ending to kill her and fix this mess' option.
I did end up brooking a truce with the Elves and the Werewolves. Granted, it was risky since if Zathrian didn't see reason and died, you would have no way to cure the elves anymore (you don't know that Lanaya can use the heart at that point). My Warden went into the Zathrian fight believing that if he didn't back down she may end up having to kill all the Dalish and recruit the Werewolves into the army. Its also that reasoning that any warden that doesn't try to broken a truce uses. They can't take the risk of Zathrian not seeing sense and so losing their only way to cure the elves.
With the Urn of Sacred ashes I just wanted the power boost to increase my odds against the Archdemon. Wynne ended up leaving my party because of that. Lelliana never brought up the topic (and wasn't in my part at the time), due to a bug. Many years later I redid this whole playthrough and this time I had lelliana die to the Warden because that just fits my taste for tragedy better (Lyrium ghost Lilliana is also cool in Da:I). I also ended up making sure Shale died in the Anvil of the Void quest. Both Lelliana and Shale deserve the chance to fight and die for what they believe in. Not having them there just feels cheap.
With the Landsmeet I put the Allistait on the Throne, alone. I hardened him, so he wanted the throne and I knew I could trust him to get the army ready, which was really all that mattered to the Warden at that point.
She also ended up rejecting the Dark Ritual. This was her sacrafice to make. After all the terrible things she did, after all the sacrifice she had demanded of others for the cause, if she was unwilling to die to make this happen, she'd really be the pure mosnter Wynne claimed she was.
So I ended up in the final battle with no mage support :P That was. . . interesting.
The epilogue was beautiful. She started out as a nobody, and at the end of it all her people declared her a f**** god. Glorious. That ending touched me like few endings ever did.
That the story of my canon "evil' play-through.
What do you think?
A lot of my canon choices in Origins are 'mistakes'. TL;DR for the rant below : You can headcanon a lot of 'bad' choices to create a more interesting warden character in your head and that was the most compelling aspect of this game for me.
-- And now I ramble about DA:O for the next 3 years
My Dalish Warden was deeply influenced by Morrigan and that was the reason for a lot of his failures as a warden but most of it came down to his flaws - he would overcompensate a lot and go for extremes, believing he had to exude strength and stoicism in order to prove himself to the humans around him. And then there's also plain Dalish arrogance causing a fair share of issues.
He sided with the Templars because they seemed like the stronger force and tbh he might have been swayed by the plight of the mages if Morrigan hadn't insisted that they were weak and deserved their fate. With Connor, he had been somewhat compelled by the Templars (to the point where I gave him the Templar specialization as a warrior) into believing blood magic was controversial for good reason but even with all his flaws, he couldn't bring himself to slaughter a child so with no other option (all the mages at the circle dead), he sacrificed Isolde and sent his wife into the Fade.
I'm backtracking a bit here but he also abandoned Redcliffe at Morrigan's insistence only to return after Orzammar to discover that he had well and truly fucked up. As a side note, I think it was this sort of dilemma that made Morrigan a very valuable romance option because she could tempt you into doing pretty terrible things and making them seem more correct. This was an important turning point in his character because this was a massive loss of life on a scale he had never seen, let alone something he had ever felt so woefully responsible for. From there, he began thinking more carefully about his decisions but mistakes were still made (siding with the elves and killing all of the werewolves - Dalish arrogance corrupting his thought process yet again) and I think by the time he got to the Ashes (the last quest I completed before the Landsmeet) - he was in full conflict with himself.
On the one hand there's immense strength and power to be gained through the corruption of this strange human artifact (power that he could gain for himself as a warrior) but on the other hand, the cute redhead he had been flirting with on the side was making bold proclamations about the importance of this urn. So he sent Leliana back to camp, poisoned the ashes, claimed his reward and then slaughtered the remnants of the cult to cover his shame. Leliana would never learn what he had done on that mountain.
The Landsmeet resulted in Anora's rule, Loghain's recruitment and Alistair's banishment because while Alistair and my Dalish boy were often at odds, there was obviously some deep mutual respect beneath it all and he couldn't allow such cold blooded execution. At this point, we've got a hollow shell of a man going through the motions to save the world, openly willing to sacrifice himself - not out of any sense of honor but more in penance for his multiple failings as a warden. However, he's willing to allow Riordan to take the fall so that he can at least take comfort in more time with Morrigan - only to be told by the witch herself that she'll be leaving. I imagine that the night of the ritual (contrary to the laughably awkward scene we receive in game) would have been some sort of sorrowful catharsis and concluded by a bitter farewell the following day. I think my Mahariel probably regretted allowing Morrigan to save his life because once she left, he was utterly morose and uncooperative.
I ended the game on a pretty bittersweet note and I think I prefer it that way. My warden was far from perfect but I appreciated the fact that Bioware let me craft a compelling narrative that felt completely personal to me. You don't see much of that anymore. I believe that this is the true value in having so many choices because DA:O managed to make me consider even the most radical or problematic options for the sake of the storytelling potential.
I actually think when you are really immersed into a role play of DAO a lot of the “bad” decisions make a hell of a lot of sense and my canon warden made a few of them. Playing as a elf mage who couldn’t remember his family I went straight for the Dalish for my warden to try and reclaim some of his lost identity, he tried to broker piece but ultimately had to stand with Zathrian in the face of swiftrunners aggression towards the elves. Regretting the decision in the aftermath but reclaiming part of his ancestry in the arcane warrior techniques as something of a consolation prize. With the dalish disappointing he returns to the circle, saving it and ultimately redcliff as a result, but again seeing the raw power of blood magic, a force that is at the back of his mind knowing the odds he faced against the blight. On to Orzammar where he initially helps Harrowmount who seems the better option for king, until the warden goes into the deep roads and witnesses the true horror of the darkspawn first hand, finally unleashing the power of blood magic to bring down the brood mother. Then moving on to the Anvil, after just witnessing what the darkspawn are capable off he cannot destroy the best chance yet against the blight and sides with Branka. Then returning to Orzammar he turns on Harromount, instating the ruthless Behlan as King, judging he to me more prepared to lead the dwarves into war on the surface. Finally at the landsmeet, the warden is now committed to making the strongest feraldan possible to face the archdemon, that means Alistair and Anora must share the throne and Loghain must be kept alive to prove that so-called genius in the final battle and his commitment to feralden. Creating a rift between him and Alistair, who had been his friend from the start but that was now soured from both these choices. By the time of the dark ritual,the warden has little qualms about “forbidden magic” and sees no reason not to perform the ritual with Morrigan, saving his own life and ensuring the loyalty of his powerful malaficar ally and lover.
Funnily when making some of the later choices I never really intended the warden to be ruthless, bad or selfish. Just, for lack of a better word, hardened for the cause. Basically; he starts off wanting to be an Elf after loosing that identity at the circle, finds the elves to be less than he imagined them, tries to go back to the circle but is no longer one of them and ultimately takes on his responsibility as a warden to stop the blight at any cost.
What the fuck are you doing here and why'd you ditch jack
That moment you finish episode with "there will be part 2" so you get one week pass on an idea for an episode. Clever, very sneaky, no wonder both of you like Morgan so much.
But on the serious note, I love listening to you two, dynamic between you is so invigorating, sharing a passion for stories not necessarily BW exclusive, the insight you give on certain aspects of characters and those goofy, moments of silliness. Just love it and carry on
When it comes to the "Alistair might be barren", perhaps not. Wardens are not sterile, but it's true that generally speaking, their fertility rate is low enough that it's widely considered to be true. I understood it as maybe for every 500 attempts for procreation, one child gets to be born.
41:40 Why choose the next Archon when you can be the next Archon? Like that old concept they had where the Inquisitor could become the Divine that got scrapped.
Probably the same reason we couldn't be the White Divine...Only Males could be the Archon. Apparently bioware doesn't think it's fair to let there be gender specific actions/choices...Even though there wouldn't be an equality issue if they had let female Inquisitors become Divine.
@@flamesofchaos13 Conversely we could throw millennium of tradition out the window, outlaw slavery as a lady elf archon, and let the chaos flow as Tevinter rips itself apart
@@Veleth95 You'd be assassinated before you're ever elected or take a seat. Literally every last Noble and Mage in the Imperium would have your head. Also every single last slave rebellion has ended in failure every last one for thousands of years...There's no fucking way we alone could be an exception the only chance of success is if Solas somehow gives all Elves their ancient powers and/or gets the help of ancient elves. Or alternatively they get military support from the Qun.
But I do think the player should be allowed to decide if they're an Loyalist or Dissenter of the Imperium. But the Dissenter needs to have severe gameplay and story disadvantages.
Problem with a lot of the Origins decisions is there is a clear “best” decision in hindsight.
But that best choice would be very risky or difficult to anticipate if you were the Warden and don’t know the consequences.
It would be hard for a real Warden to not side with Branka: there’s no way of being sure the assembly would believe you about caradin (plus golems would be useful when you’re woefully underprepared for a blight)
Behlin vs Harrowmount: what indication is there Behlin would be such a better king? Very minimal
The elves: when Zathrian wants to fight Swiftrunner, the wolves have no obligation to help you and you can’t know zathrian would back down at the last minute for the truce to happen.
Conner: You feel like everyone in red cliff should be dead if you leave to go to the circle. It’s supposedly a long trip.
Yeah I agree maybe a little less with the branca thing but definitely agree with harrowmont or bhelen thing because before I played the origin of the Dwarven Noble I was going to side with bhelen cuz I thought the crown should stay in the family and that Bhelen was going to make good changes 😅
I was able to very easily justify choosing Bhelen for one main reason: my Warden isn't a Dwarf. Even then, he's a Warden. His one duty is to end the Blight. And after talking to both candidates, Bhelen promised the most support. So despite how reluctant my Warden was about his intentions, he chose Bhelen because that would work towards what he saw as a greater good. Otherwise yeah, it is kind of weird to have my character make some choices. I can't imagine my shy, soft-spoken Cousland telling Alistair to look after himself, but that's the choice I want...probably why I headcanon another Warden was with them, hehe.
Need a t-shirt off “we’re not stupid, we’re brilliant”
Dwarf Casteless Fighter cause it felt the most unique to me in terms of acclompishment and learning about the world. From the very beginning you have nothing and you're an outsider/outcast even to your own people. Coming back to Orzammar allows you to learn about the nobility for the first time, and determing who is King has a greater meaning for your character.
Mage origin..."your friend's an idiot" LOL you're right. My default warden is human mage. Only turned Jowan in once though, and I felt like a jerk. But then again I headcanoned that my human mage had lived in the tower most of her life, Jowan was her best friend and she was naive and couldn't believe her beloved teacher would authorize something so horrible done to her best friend and one of his own apprentices.
NO Wardens are not Sterile. It is very hard to get pregnant. Its not impossible.
There's only two examples and both women were Magi and one of them was cured of the Taint...This isn't standard this is strange and should be studied.
Flames Of Chaos a male warden can get Morrigan pregnant without the ritual
@@ayylmao8375 yes true
I keep hearing how Wardens are barren, but I thought it was just difficult to have kids. Morrigan has Kieran if you romance her with or without the ritual. Fiona had Alistair, and I thought Alistair implies that two Wardens having children did/does happen; it's just incredibly rare. Plus if the Warden does find a cure, it seriously won't matter anymore.
speaking of the whole 'do the ends justify the means' convo, in inquisition, there's a banter with varric where he says the best villains are the ones next to you, who fully believe that what they're doing is good and right and justified.
My first full playthrough was as a human noble and I have such fond memories of it that I love that one the most, and I have a hard time seeing any other as Canon. However I think it is an interesting set up story wise to play a dalish that romances Morrigan, for the full apostate heartache experience
Yup chose werewolves because I wanted them for the final battle and it was fire!
Honestly, considering the heir situation, it seems likely that the monarch will end up heirless and the throne will pass to Fergus Cousland anyway, so why not put a Cousland on the throne before?
Alistair might be able to have a child. If the Warden Queen finds the cure for the Blight they'll be able to conceive.
From what I gathered, it's not that Wardens are barren, but they have a hard time conceiving with each other. Morrigan and Fiona have children. Morrigan is especially important when talking about heirs because she still has Kieran even if you don't do the ritual as long as you romanced her.
So just to throw this in there as someone who ended up with a different favorite origin than the first one I did, I like them all, but started with city elf, my favorite ended up being Dalish elf. It's the only one I've actually been able to justify a reluctant warden, at least from my own personality
The idea of villainy as a person who tries to do good things but in questionable, and many times outright destructive ways (i.e. Loghain, Solas, etc) seems to be a more recent way of thinking of villainy (Killmonger, Thanos, etc). There was a great discussion of this in a wisecrack video. I'll post the link as a reply to this comment.
ua-cam.com/video/WROjphkh3NA/v-deo.html
I have a canon state and an alternate state. One of them both sides with the Templars and allows Conner’s mother to die.
I play a male warrior the first time and I have to say it is my Main canon (which has all the character I like the most). But honestly all my characters I love, because I head canon all my characters like crazy, so they never do something that would go against their own character, and you'd be kinda surprised all the different reasons why you would kill Isolde, or Possess Connor. Personally all I saying is I love Origins.
On the "Who actually sides with the Templars?" I had to replay a new canon character because I didnt realize the mechanics of the litany, so I accidentally killed all the mages as a mage 😅
My first character was the same. I reloaded a save to try and save Irvine over and over and finally managed it two hours later. When I realized how to use the
Litany, I was pissed.
On my very first playthrough of DAO, I hated Morrigan and I romanced Alistair (uuuh, so basic...) Playing as a city elf with an Alistair, that wasn't hardened, he broke up with me after the landsmeet. I was really upset because of this. And then Morrigan came to me and suggested, that she could have a child with Alistair, I totally lost it. I was screaming at my TV: "I'd rather die, you deceitful witch!" Up until the very end I was hoping, that there might be some kind of miracle and my warden would survive somehow. And then in the final moments Alistair gives this friggin speech, about how he would not let my warden die and I was close to crying, when my warden knocked him out... That was very emotional. So, Caitie, I totally understand your feelings about Morrigan and the dark ritual. XD
One of the things I love in the Dragon Series is that there is a lot of nuance and grey area in the world and also in your choices. I do agree certain choices are just obviously evil but for the most part I don't really see it as very Black & White especially compared to Mass Effect & KTOR which is a big reason why Dragon Age is the only Bioware game I got super into. Like while I always side with the Mages the Templars and Templar supporters do have a point - complete unchecked freedom for mages could very well destroy the world. I also find the Qunari and the Qun quite interesting and a lot of it is pretty compelling - conversations with Sten were always interesting to me. Then jumping to Inquisition things become even more nuanced so they are definitely heading in the right direction.
My favorite origin after some thought, is the dwarf noble. Solely due to the fact that you can have the most children as a male dwarf noble. Second would be city elf, feels more adventurey, and third would be Dalish Elf. Dalish would be my favorite, but I feel you don't get enough dialogue options related to your dalishness.
I sided with the elves on my cannon playthrough. I feel more for Zathrian than the werewolves. I do kill him though, there's nothing left in this world for him.
I think the reason Alistair doesn't have an heir is just because would be really hard to implement it in the world state , and considering some people married him off with the warden or had him in a relationship it would just feel weird that he had a kid regardless of the player's choice on the matter .
Also Anora is barren , that's one of the reason's Cailen wanted to divorce her , and if Fiona could have had Alistair is not out of the realm of possibility that the same thing that made Fiona have a child could be in her son as well .
My first origin was a Dalish elf Archer named Nesilora Mahariel. And I definitely continue to think of the Dalish elf origin to be my favorite. I even still love rogue archers, too, even though I think a lot of people don’t.
I love all the Origins except Dalish Elves because you never actually see your clan again. The first time I played I did Mages-Dwarves-Redcliffe-Urn-Elves and I always did it that way
Human noble was my first, but female city elf is easily my favorite, next to casteless dwarf. Least favorite for me is Dalish elf...at least in the context of Origins on its own
Lol My canon Dragon Age Origins playthrough is an evil playthrough where I had Werewolves, Golems and Templars with me in the final battle. My Warden was a human Noble that was a spoiled brat and bitter that he was a Grey Warden and lost his family fortune so all his choices were made through spite. He taped it the ashes and chose loghain just to piss off Alistair. Also my warden marry the queen. But he did love Morrigan and left with her.
im sure Grey wardens aren't sterile but have a much harder time having kids and with anora "rumoured" to be barren it may not be impossible for Alistair and anora to have a child
This, also since Cailin was a bit of a horndog and we here about no Bastards from him so I think Cailen was the Barren one. Also the writers can have a Ferelden heir appear at anytime.
My first play through I made some choices that are not a part of my head cannon. The clear division between the good choice and the bad choice at times is only apparent if you know the end result of both. Some times you also only discover the best choice by asking more questions. For example, my first play through I didn't ask the right things to save both Isolde and Conner, I thought I could only choose one.
The City Elf female is very hero's journey to me.
They start poor and in an arranged marriage, subject to the whim's of rich humans. They slowly gain more power amd influence as they run around saving Fereldan from a great army of pure evil, they befriend a bastard prince whose mother was also a City elf kidnapped by humans and you make him king. Then you have him promise to work closely with the elves of Fereldan and he actually follows through!! In the end (whether you die or live) you become one of the most revered heroes of modern Thedas!
Like what? Sounds like a legit adventure book!
Dwarf Noble player here. I always choose Harrowmont even if it’s the worse choice because I think it makes the story more tragic and interesting on top of Bhelen being a traitor.
So it's got nothing to do with the attempt to kill you and the older brother off? I picked Harrowmont because the fact is Bhelen is a pathetic scheming bitch. You get your own hands bloody or you lose them Bro.
YAAAAAASSS please do werewolves and golems so i can see it and don't have to hahaha
54:37 man. can you believe the conversation and the drama, if Alistair knew about the ritual and he would do the dark ritual in secret, so after killing the archdemon the warden is like: "why am I alive, Alistair? Is there something you want to talk about? Something about Morrigan????"
I heard Archon and thought “You mean Architect..” then realized oh you mean leader of tevinter... OH OH COULD YOU imagine if the leader of Tevinter is The Archon from Andromenda?!?!?!?
With the Isolde choice, I for whatever reason thought that if I used the mages to save both, they wouldn't help against the Archdemon, so I automatically went for the blood magic ritual
Ik I'm super duper late BUT my first origin I picked but never finished was human male noble, but my canon one was an evilish Dwarf Noble and I love how damn cold he was. I played him as hard-core end justifies the means while still being good hearted, he was slowly getting into a romance with leliana but ended up killing her and Wynne at the temple of sacred ashes for that sweet reaver spec, and had morrigan bang Alistair cuz he's a good wingman, and sten almost got cut down at one point cuz he was pissed at me for killing Leliana and Wynne
Yay a Dragon Age episode!! c:
The dwarven king choice parallels the Ancient Rome Republic and Bhelen is Julius Caesar.
And Harrowmount is Cato the Younger.
My Lady Cousland will always be my favorite/main Warden. I love human noble and yeah it was my first playthrought, but that was also my worst game. lol To me, it felt more connected to DAO's story, especially Howe. I can't even say how much hatred I felt for Howe when I finally got to confront him, and by extension Loghain for working will and enabling him. Tabris is probably the only other Warden I can see having such a personal stakes with the villains. City elf hooked me from the moment my female elf got kidnapped and made a great beginning for my scrapper rogue. Mage is interesting for introducing some of the Circle's politics, but I can't stand Jowan. Dalish was interesting, but I'm much more interested now that I've played DAI and Trespasser. Dwarf noble was great, but I never played beyond the origin cuz the dwarf models were too weird.
Cousland: saved mages, Connor safe and Isolde alive, helped both dalish and werewolves, didn't poison ashes, King Bhelen, Anvil destroyed, Loghain dead, Alistair did Morrigan's ritual (I feel ya, Caitie. Morrigan was my sister and I hated her until she talked to me later), Queen alongside King Alistair
Also a Cousland, with most of the same decisions, with the exception I was a male, romanced Leliana, and did the Ritual myself, because my Warden was too nice to force his best friend to do it. I haven't played any of the DLC, though I have it in the Keep that he let Morrigan go in Witch Hunt, recruited Shale, and let the Architect live in Awakening, though the latter was very, very reluctantly.
He's not better for Orzammar(Bhelen) he dissolves the senate and inherently becomes the emperor from SW.
Your wife to be in the City Elf Origin lives and fucks off back to highever. Also I feel a need to defend the Dude City Elf, you essentially fail at saving most of the "party guests" and the at the Temple you can have an emotional breakdown infront of Spirit Shianni. That breaking of the Warden is what really connected me to my Cannon Warden.
My main was cousland. But by inquisition i bonded with my dwarf commoner because he died with ritual and dagnas dialogue about him that he wished he new how much he help her and she will never be able to tell him broke my heart.
The first one I've played was the mage origin, but I ended up loving the Dalish elf one (which most people hate lol why)
My second favorite origin is the dalish female
Maybe because it's the shortest? Me I like the Dalish origins but it isn't my favorite or least favorite it's in the middle. My favorites are Magi, Dwarf Noble and City Elf (Though I've never played a full playthrough with the City Elf only it's beginning.) My least favorites are Dwarf Commoner and Human Noble they're just bland to me.
I've done 8/9/10(?) Magi Origins, 2 Dwarven Nobles, 2 Dalish Elves, 2 Human Nobles as my full playthroughs with three of the Magi and one of the Dwarven Nobles being my favorite protagonists so far. If you're curious Hawkes been 5/6/7(?) Mage, 1 Rogue Archer and my next playthrough is gonna be Warrior probably Weapon and Shield Templar. My Inquisitors are a Vashoth Mage who conscripted the Magi and a Dwarven Two-Handed Warrior that allied the Templars...Both got Cassandra as Divine. My next playthrough is gonna be a Dalish Elf Mage who allies the Magi and gets Leliana as Divine.
I like the dalosh one the least only because it doesnt grab the attention and tension of the land, but it does show the cooler hidden mythos side
In the event of the truce between elves and werewolves you do cure the wolves. And honestly the werewolves are so much better than the elven archers so from a pragmatic standpoint I kinda get just slaughtering the elves which I will admit I do every time.
I love Liam Kosta! Fight me!! Lol!
As a female Human Noble, you CAN actually choose to marry Alistair for political reasons despite not being a relationship with him (you can still be in relationship with Zevran or Leliana (harden); But I think you would need to be high friendship with Alistair also, I'm not quite sure.
The first one I played was city elf and I was slightly bored with it at the time. Elf mage got me hooked!!!
I don't think you guys are takeing into account how dwarven politicsworks. It's been said that the dwarfs "play the game to the death" and dwarven politics in the DA universes is way more violent then what were used to and what thedas is used to besides maybe tevinter. Althought the tevinter is just speculation on my part. Even the vote for the dwarf nobles ansestor had an assassination of an assembly member involved.
The Urn is always the last thing I do
Alistair couldn't have been barren cuz he got Morrigan pregnant in another worldslate...the god baby deals.
I actually love keeping Connor possessed. My warden has a fascination with demons.
What about recruiting/executing Loghain?
Best Stories are Dwarven Noble, City Elf and Magi...Favorite is Magi I just love the environment and Magi politics and the Fade beginning.
I reckon if you just take DAO in isolation Dwarf Noble is my favourite. But if you put in the context of the whole series Magi gives a nice bit of extra world building that puts it ahead
I actually disagree with Alistair being fully sterile. In all the worldstates Ali is either alone, or with barren Anora, or with barren Warden. And Male Warden can have a normal baby with Morrigan, though through the dark ritual, and we know that Flemeth actually needed Morrigan for it. I'm putting on my tinfoil hat and guessing that it has to do with Marric's blood or the 'talk' he and Flemeth had. Ali, being Marric's son can experience the taint differently than other wardens. After all, Architect did not change or tweaked wardens' blood, he just sped up the process of them becoming darkspawn.
My canon Warden takes no shit dual wielding warrior who brings golems to the final battle but i do just about everything else pretty “good”
I just couldn't trust anora after my first landsmeet where she walked in saying I'm a liar and power grabbing like excuse me I SAVED you asshole. Promising to support her in the landsmeet just to betray her was always so satisfying to me after that I absolutely do not trust her at all to ever do what is right, just to do what is convenient for her own position. I know Alistair has a good heart and that's good enough for me
the first time i played origins i didn't do the dark ritual, i didn't want alistair to do that I was extremely pissed so I chose to die, when i saw Kieran in Inquisition, I trusted the choice more so I always do the sacrifice.
My favorite canon I created was finally cracking Morrigan's shell and having my warden tell her that he loves her...next put Loghain through the joining, and just telling Allistair we need all the Wardens we can have, how can he not see this! Morrigan wants the dark ritual, but my warden will not allow the soul of an old god to persist and says no, and no I wont make Loghain do it either, then she walks out on us the night before saving Ferelden and petulantly is like good luck surviving without me...
Loghain killed the archdemon and became the true patriot hero he always was inside for Ferelden, but my warden has a burning hatred driving him. Cuts to witch hunt finds out I have a son and that this witch has been living her life uninterrupted by the same emotional scars my warden has been... *stab* push her through the mirror, broken elf, a hero no more.
In addition to that canon, I would love to see Allistair be redeemed from his drunken selfishness.
I always kill either Connor or Isolde. I find the story less compelling if you leave to get the mages after just fighting through hordes of undead to save these people. Also, I think one of them needs to die as recompense for the massive fuck up in Redcliff. And I always possess Connor if I'm playing a blood mage, cause it feels like cheating if I don't.
I think if you leave Redcliff to get the mages, there should be a time limit similar to the suicide mission from Mass Effect 2. Take too long, important people die and Connor is too far gone to save.
for my Bhelen FOR THE KING and branka to make golems
Bear in mind that Anora couldn't have children with Cailan. Why would she be able to with Alistair? Also, the thing with Morrigan produces a child, so evidently Alistair can still produce a child. I believe he stated that if a warden is still fairly new as a warden, they can still have children. After all, Alistair has only been a warden for about 6 months when you first meet.
Okay, but Cailan had mistresses and he didn't conceive a child with any of them so maybe he is to blame for infertility? I know years ago woman was always blamed, but maybe he got some Thedas-equivalent of a STD or something and it made him unable to father children?
In dao i kill the elves every time.theyre extremely rude to you and the 1st time i played i was checking out the stealing mechanic and used a dalish person as practice(got the “nothing to steal” message so i was like ok whatever).well after that i kept getting ambushed by random dalish assassins and hunters every other time i used the map.the kids in the dalish camp would scream if i clicked on them and every npc and character in the camp hated me and did nothing to hide it.when i had the option to get rid of them all so theyd stop harassing me i immediately took it.i was so happy after because the random dalish attacks finally stopped after they were all gone. Even after using new characters i kill them off every time because they left an extremely bitter taste in my mouth
Origin Stories ranked for me (I like them all, don't hate me):
Human Noble
City Elf
Dalish Elf
Dwarf Noble
Mage
Dwarf Commoner
Kinda the opposite...
Magi
Dwarf Noble
Dalish Elf
City Elf
Dwarf Commoner
Human Noble
So my most recent PT of Origins (have not played that one in AGES)... I accidentally killed Connor... Like I had no idea you could go find him in the castle (I always go right to the mages), and I talked to him, then went to look around and tried to go into Arl Eamons room and it triggered the demon and I made Isolde let me kill him, so she didn't have to.... Long story short I was horrified and felt like a total twat lol
To continue down the rabbit hole here, I prefer Dalish Elf Origin, but play best as a mage, so have no choice but to do the mage origin usually. I do like Dwarf Noble and Human Noble... City Elf is good but I don't like Shianni so there's that lol never played a Dwarf commoner, next on my list!
I have never sided with the werewolves, but don't like Zathrien at all, so maybe I'll do that just for shits one day.
I have never sided with the templars because I am a mage at heart, but sometimes I do hate the recurring theme of "These mages kill lots of people, but feel sorry for them and side with them always because.... Funsies" lol
Orzammar is fun, but I do prefer Harrowmont, and chose him first PT because I didn't know Bhelin was better. I chose Bhelin now because it makes more sense. I have also let Branka use the anvil... Never did that again lol
I have never destroyed the Urn, and won't ever, but I did buy into the cults BS first PT.... But fought with them later on lol
I always harden Alistair and make him king alone or with a Cousland. I've never spared Logain but want to try that at some point.
I always let Morrigan do the ritual, but want to try having my warden sacrifice themselves just to see for myself what happens.
I guess to wrap that up, I choose basic choices now that I know what's what... But have made some FUCKED mistakes on accident lol and want to do a run just being a total douche, but not sure if I can actually do it!
Regarding Alistair marrying Anora; Anora can't have children and we know that it's "common knowledge" in Origins, there's a letter from Eamon to Cailan and the letters from Celene to Cailan. But I was thinking that maybe after Alistair marries Anora, they will dispose her just like they planned to do when she was married to Cailan? Also, apparently new Warden can have children, as we see with Morrigan's Dark Ritual. Is it only with magic, though? Possibly, but even then we know that it is theoretically possible to help things along with magic.
Kieran is still born if you romance her and don't do the ritual. Also Fiona has Alistair, and she wasn't a new Warden at the time, if I recall correctly.
@@absollum True, but Fiona was somehow "un-tainted" as well. Did that help her conceive?
@@sarij3950 I thought she had Alistair, went back to the Wardens, and then discovered she was un-tainted.
@@sarij3950 not in that particular order, but she was still a Warden when she had Alistair.
Can't hardened Alistair be Kieran's father and King of Ferelden? Hence he isnt sterile?
Hardening Alistair, Kieran's fatherhood and if Alistair is King has nothing do do with each other and every combination is possible.
Human Noble and Magi origin are my least fav out of all. I love the Dwarft ones.
My canon Warden wiped out all the Dalish. But he’s kinda messed up and did it for the lols. Plus who wouldn’t want a bunch of werewolves to aid you in a battle against darkspawn?
First Warden- So why did you slaughter a bunch of innocent Elves and let a bunch of Werewolves plague the lands of Ferelden?
The Hero of Ferelden/The Warden/The Warden-Commander- I did it for the lols.
First Warden- I see.
If you poison the Urn you still kill the entire cult except one fight. It is completely idiotic. You only do that once to get the Reaver spec.
I have to disagree that Mages are the better choice. For me it depends what character I play. And out of my 12 wardens 4 have chosen the templars. And some who sided with the mages still killed Isolde or Connar because they though it would take too long to get to the mages in time.
Ok sometimes you can make bad choices by accident and I made two (three actually but one was minor). The first one is that it is possible to make the wrong one 1) I killed Isolde to enter the fade to save Connor. The reasons were I went to Redcliffe first and then played straight through from saving the town to dealing with the root of the problem so I knew the mage tower from reports was still a mess so didn't trust that I could sort it out enough to get the mages or it would take too and b) ironically because I took a huge hit in approval from Alistair - I kinda hated Isolde from the way she treated him, from her attitude towards me and I felt that the whole situation was her fault at least a big part of it was plus Jowan's assessment and reveal of her being a holy roller - I HATE sanctimonious hypocrites lacking in compassion. A part of me was like 'dude this bitch made your life hell growing up why are you pissed off that I let her make a sacrifice of herself for a situation she was partly responsible for and not run the risk of it getting out of control again while I try and sort out the mages?. I intially inadvertently sided with the mages because I couldn't figure out how to use the release from possession time dispute Wynne's prompting but luckily immediately replayed and fixed that and didn't do as well as I could but managed to save Irving at least and some other mages. B) I didn't do the dark ritual as I didn't trust Morrigan's parenting skills and I wish I'd worked harder to persuade Loghain now as I completely agree that Morrigan is a great mum and Kieran a great character plus it would have been interesting to have Loghain in Inquisition but one of my could have done that betters was to threaten the Mother in Lothering to release Sten to me although a) it did earn me approval with Morrigan b) the lady did kinda annoy me. I played DA 2 first and my initial Hawke made bad choices for good reasons and ended up a heartbroken wreck who ran away with Anders because she couldn't bear to lose one more person she loved so my warden was a bit more of a ruthless bitch as a reaction to that although she mostly made the right choices. Still at least
annoying Alistair enough to miss out on the romance boat, although I did work up enough approval to get his mission and harden him, meant I could do the right thing by Ferelden and marry him to Anora and make Loghain make the ultimate sacrifice which seemed like a good atonement for him since his shit meant there was a lack of other people to take the fall. I've written fan fic from Alistair's POV with him considering his feelings about this around the time of Inquisition.
A friend of mine missed the cues and ended up killing the werewolves and wouldn't do the Dark Ritual because they felt they'd be cheating on Zevran.
My friend let Alistair sacrifice himself too.
"Who doesn't choose to save both?"
Me.
"Who actually sides with the templars?"
Again, me.
I did on playthrought and I killed Conner, killed the Elven, he didn't help the Battle in Redclif and yes, he was one big asshole. He just didn't care...
I hope mod warden is warrior. Cause versahi is rogue and tamar is mage.
Why didn't they just say that Leliana in inquisition if killed in origins was a spirit that was taking her form after being inspired after her death? Like a spirit of faith? That way it stays within the rules and expands the spirit lore in inquisition, and doesn't delve into the whole lyrium ghost retcon
17:00 I agree that killing the Dalish is a purely evil option, but in a recent playthrough my character actually chose to kill the werewolves. Yes, Zathrian is a bit of an ass, but some shems killed his son and raped his daughter, who killed herself afterwards; my character thought that Zath was justified in that. Even though the werewolves claim that they are different than their ancestors, and my character understood that they tried to be reasonable, when they attacked the Dalish to force Zath's hand, they kinda proved that they are like their grandfathers.
Zath refused to help them everytime they tried to be diplomatic this wasn't once or twice it was multiple times over the space of centuries.
Zath is punishing innocents his own foolishness to get revenge on memories and ideas. Hell he would even sacrifice all his people for his pointless bitterness. (Also another big reason why he refused is heavily implied to be his own fear of death)
So not only is he an arse for
Making innocent people who had nothing to do with the crime suffer.
Refusing to sort it out peacefully despite multiple opportunities and still refusing when you and the wolves team up with the ultimatum of fix the problem you created or your people die
Making his own people suffer when he damn well knew how to fix the problem.
Manipulating the warden and co with lies and half truths (he knows how it all started and knows that the werewolves are not mindless beings as they tried to contact him peacefully countless times)
But all in all his other major reasons for not breaking the curse is pure selfishness and greed of not wanting to die.
Hell if it wasn't for the me liking the other people in the dalish camp and not wanting to the wolves to be as foolish as Zath I would have always teamed up with the wolves and murder his dumb ass
iirc, a female Warden can tell Alistair that she's pregnant, during the epilogue, which I always assumed was a cruel lie. Then again, I've always felt that Leliana's thing about saying "I love you" as her preferred method to get close to a target made her entire romantic subplot suspect, so I'm a bit cynical about the Origins romanceable companions... granted, it's for good reason, in some cases.