Divination, Then and Now

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  • Опубліковано 25 лис 2024

КОМЕНТАРІ • 90

  • @alexandriatempest
    @alexandriatempest Рік тому +81

    It's sweet that you showed respect for it even though you don't believe. It speaks well of you.

    • @michaelstora70
      @michaelstora70 Рік тому +3

      I think it was respect for the gift giver and keeping his word.

    • @Kveldred
      @Kveldred Рік тому

      Yes, I too think we should all defer to any crazy idea anyone comes up with.
      In fact, let's start with _this __-crazy-__ good idea itself!_ Respect my demand, even if you don't believe, _or be non-sweet forever!_

  • @CourtneySchwartz
    @CourtneySchwartz Рік тому +54

    For those interested, there is a small soothsaying museum (Spákonuhof) in Skagaströnd where you can see bones like this, and hear a good storyteller tell the story of Þórdís.

  • @greydoncrites
    @greydoncrites Рік тому +8

    Don't believe those old bones Dr. Crawford, you WILL win the annual bingo tournament, we believe in you

  • @CaraesNaur
    @CaraesNaur Рік тому +40

    Those are sheep knuckle bones. They have been used as dice since Sumeria, at least. They're the basis for the phrase "roll the bones".

    • @radiationraven
      @radiationraven Рік тому +2

      A great Rush album, too. Poignant lyrics strangely related.

  • @TheIronShieldmaiden
    @TheIronShieldmaiden Рік тому +20

    Funny what you said about coming up with your own divination method! Mine is like this: I say to the person next to me "When I say 'go' you tell me 'yes' or 'no', don't think about it, just say the one that comes first to your mind"; then I think about the question and, when I say "go", I get the answer to it. I know it's silly, but it helps me put things into perspective.

    • @amandaforrester7636
      @amandaforrester7636 Рік тому +5

      Sounds similar to an ancient Greek kledon. You stop up your ears with wax, pray to Hermes, ask your question, and then then walk into a crowded marketplace. You take the wax out, and the first scrap of conversation you overhear is your answer. 😊

    • @faramund9865
      @faramund9865 Рік тому +3

      And that's exactly the point of divination.
      Where we can't come up with a good reasoning for either one or the other decision, we are forced to guess.
      But we don't want to guess, we want some hint that it is the right decision.
      So thus we look for signs to lead us. We'd rather rely upon something than nothing, even if that something is literally throwing dice.

    • @faithlesshound5621
      @faithlesshound5621 Рік тому +1

      @@faramund9865 There's throwing the dice when the options are equally valid, and then there's throwing the dice when the alternatives are not. The latter was explored in Luke Rhinehart's novel "The Dice Man."

  • @andersnygaard909
    @andersnygaard909 Рік тому +33

    12:41 don't know why I haven't made the connection before - there's a northern Norwegian divination that used to be done for newborn children. It's mostly considered a Sami or Finnish custom now, so maybe that's why the penny didn't drop.
    Three twigs - one with no bark, one burnt and one carved with three notches were placed in a bowl of the special porridge that's traditionally the mother's first meal after the birth - still called norn-porridge some places. If one of them disappears overnight, that's interpreted as diagnostic for the child's future. The remaining twigs were sometimes made into a protective amulet and placed in the cradle.
    So "certain marks" could indeed be as simple as just cutting a notch or charring a bit of a stick - no need to get fancy :)

    • @sarahallegra6239
      @sarahallegra6239 Рік тому +1

      That’s fascinating! What an interesting tradition.

  • @iamlunalane
    @iamlunalane Рік тому

    Thanks for stopping in today Dr. Crawford

  • @premodernist_history
    @premodernist_history Рік тому +14

    His question was, "Will One Direction get back together?"

  • @CountsDigGraves
    @CountsDigGraves Рік тому +12

    A pretty good source for divination in the medieval period is witchcraft court cases. In the Netherlands you can sometimes find witness testimony concerning different forms of medieval mysticism, often concerning divination, among the court documents.

    • @kimfleury
      @kimfleury Рік тому +2

      You have to be careful with those, though, because for different reasons they might be inaccurate, either through misunderstanding or through flat out lies. I will say it's best to look at the original documents, or at least translated transcriptions side by side with the originals (allowing scholars to translate them to check for accuracy). Before the Internet I read too many books by people claiming to have solved these puzzles, and after the Internet I've read too many blogs by people claiming to have solved these puzzles, only to stumble in the search for their claimed original sources. But having said all that, your suggestion is worth a follow-up for anyone who's interested.

    • @CountsDigGraves
      @CountsDigGraves Рік тому

      @@kimfleury oh for sure! I should probably specify that these are valuable and interesting sources from a scholarly perspective. These documents are (presumably) not written by people who practice divination themselves and within the context of the practices being treated as alleged criminal acts.
      So one should tread lightly, and experience in source criticism is important.

    • @craigsurette3438
      @craigsurette3438 Рік тому +2

      Another good source for research along these lines, are examples of recordings of Church prohibitions against various things that the people were doing, often along with the proper penance for doing so. Because the Church would not be prohibiting something specific that the people were not doing and creating punishments for it.
      For example, you might find Church records of some bishop writing to his priests "This pagan stuff has to stop! When one of the peasants in your Parish makes offerings to the river, make them fast on bread and water 3 days and make them say 20 Hail Mary's" etc
      This tells us, that enough people were making offerings to the river, that the Bishop had to say something....

    • @craigsurette3438
      @craigsurette3438 2 місяці тому

      It is an excellent tool to use. A court does not tend to waste paper to make a law against something which isnt happening .So it is safe to say if there is a law that says "No woman shall melt lead, and cast it into water to divine the future" then that means it is probably safe to say at least someone was doing that sort of divination at the time

  • @lemonZzzzs
    @lemonZzzzs Рік тому +15

    That's something I did not expect to see from your channel! Pretty interesting, still, and definitely worth documenting and preserving in multiple sources, including this.

  • @snazzypazzy
    @snazzypazzy Рік тому +2

    This was very interesting! For you anatomical knowledge mammals usually don't have one knee bone, since the knee is a joint. They have a bone of the thigh, usually 2 in the lower leg and together with the patella (kneecap) they make up the joint. A knee joint will either have long bones attatched, or be cut/broken. These indeed look like hand/feet bones, and I've been told that these have a long use in history. They look like human toe and finger bones, but more compact.
    And from the skeptical pagan side: it's common to use divination as a way to bring your own subconcious to the surface. So if you ask a tarot question, your stream of conciousness can help bring out what you want to do. Or, if you are disappointed in the answer of a yes/no question: you know what you want to do. Hope this helps you with your question :)

  • @neva_nyx
    @neva_nyx Рік тому +5

    I really appreciate the realism. I love these little finds and tidbits.

  • @delanebredvik
    @delanebredvik Рік тому +2

    What a cool gift. Maybe it needs to be calibrated for Colorado somehow to get a mare precise response.

  • @Pandaemoni
    @Pandaemoni Рік тому +6

    I think those are talus (or ankle) bones, aka astragali, used in "astragalomancy," though when I asked the fortune telling device of my own people if that was right, it said "Ask again later."

  • @AngelaRichter65
    @AngelaRichter65 Рік тому +13

    Thanks for this video. I am currently researching divination methods for a book I'm writing and probably would have never noticed this in the mounds of stuff I have to plow through. I haven't even gotten to European methods yet.

    • @neva_nyx
      @neva_nyx Рік тому +1

      This is a book I would love to read. Humans are so very interesting creatures.

    • @septegram
      @septegram Рік тому

      I want to know more about this book! How do I get notified when it comes out?
      Are you going to cover augury?

  • @MidgardMusings
    @MidgardMusings Рік тому +1

    Thanks for sharing this! I love finding out how divination methods have evolved over time.

  • @PH4RX
    @PH4RX Рік тому +2

    The question was: "does this stuff work?".

  • @Jayman2800
    @Jayman2800 Рік тому +3

    Hi Doctor Crawford, I'm a practitioner of a few different types of divination, including the fragmentary pieces of Seið we havr in the modern day. If the answer your question was "no", be sure not to inherently think the worse. Its a similar cobcept with the Death card in Tarot, people freak out, when it doesn't actually mean death. So honestly, I'd interpret as "No, _but..._" because there are many different ways to interpret messages even if theyre as simple as Yes or No

  • @YolayOle
    @YolayOle Рік тому +8

    Did the guy who said your hat was a prop never meet a cowboy or someone from the cowboy culture before? A prop hat would not look natural on you, your cowboy hat fits you very well.
    I'm a skeptic on all things mystic IRL (I'm fine with mysticism/magic in fiction/fantasy. That can be a lot of fun.), but I think looking at mystical items from the past is interesting as a historical pursuit. It's another way to learn about how the people see themselves and the world around them.
    You definitely kept your promise to keep the video scholarly.

  • @volfgangtwins
    @volfgangtwins Рік тому

    Interesting 🤘🏻⚔⚔🤘🏻

  • @jamesfforthemasses
    @jamesfforthemasses Рік тому

    This video surprised me in a good way. It felt more balanced and less agenda driven than some earlier videos on divination.

  • @belindarichardson5349
    @belindarichardson5349 Рік тому +2

    I always thought you can ask whatever you like, but by not taking it lightly, the meaning is to sincerely believe/trust and not test the oracle.

  • @joshyyekonsire1
    @joshyyekonsire1 Рік тому +2

    Was great seeing you in SLC! Hope to see you again soon!

  • @Gooster7
    @Gooster7 Рік тому +7

    If the markings in Germania were runes though, wouldn’t Tacitus be able to identify it as some kind of alphabet since the Roman’s alphabet appeared very similar the Germanic ones?

  • @phillipr.mctear8962
    @phillipr.mctear8962 24 дні тому

    Thanks Jackson

  • @cowboygeologist7772
    @cowboygeologist7772 Рік тому

    Fascinating video; thanks for sharing your adventure. New subscriber.

  • @ICryRanierBeer
    @ICryRanierBeer Рік тому +1

    😕 I hope in the future the answer is different. Thanks for another interesting video.

  • @joetrimble7953
    @joetrimble7953 Рік тому +2

    The knee bones may well be the inspiration for Legos. 😂 I was impressed with norse divination in the fact that the answer can be "none of your business" or "f' off". Many divination systems can become an obsession as a person keeps asking the same question expecting a different answer. Not a good option with norse divination.

  • @meloncreampuffs
    @meloncreampuffs Рік тому

    I found your channel through the runes video. You seem like a very nice person. I bought your book and subscribed. Hope you are doing well.

  • @mjinba07
    @mjinba07 Рік тому

    I enjoy learning human history and haven't yet encountered a culture that didn't use some form of divination. Inquiring minds want to know. I credit our incredible psychological drive to control - control our environment, control our outcomes, control our opportunities - which is sometimes so frustrating that we seek the influence of occult (hidden) powers. Those being entirely constructed in our own imaginations, some would argue. Either way, if we can perhaps know, we can perhaps control. What other animal on our planet would do that.

  • @themk4982
    @themk4982 Рік тому

    Another great video

  • @custodialmark
    @custodialmark Рік тому +1

    ' Your the sheep's knee's ! ' i not recall if Lakota had similar. various tribes may. we fast, dance, isolate till vison quest made.

  • @craigsurette3438
    @craigsurette3438 Рік тому +2

    Something that suggests that what Tacitus's informants saw during the divination with bits of inscribed wood, were NOT runes, is that, he or his informants would clearly recognize runes as letters and would call them that, because of how similar runes are to the Roman script of Tacitus's day. He uses a word for "marks" not a word for"letters", which implies the marks were not letters

    • @valerielecanasson4272
      @valerielecanasson4272 2 місяці тому

      Who told you that the roman soldiers understood what they saw for the first time in their life and could report precisely the reality, if they ever attended such ceremony ? Could they just read ? Letters are used to write words, but Runes are symbolic or profane marks or both perhaps. The German people didnt write but used inscribed marks like runes for divination.
      In German language, the word "letter" is : Buchstab : Beechstick if translated in English. Marks inscribed on wood. And when you are requested to write in Buchstaben, it's means that you must write with Capital Letters, like sticks.
      Scandinavian people used and use the Runes for magic purpose and for writing sentence...most religious...1 000 years later and Tacitus never left his comfortable villa in Italy.
      If Runes are so similar to the roman script, why the Roman people didn't recognize them ??? It is not logical what you write.

    • @craigsurette3438
      @craigsurette3438 2 місяці тому

      i will try to say it in a different way.
      Tacitus and or his informants witnessed a divination ceremony in Germany in the early first century., involving casting lots, using symbols carved on bits of fruit tree wood
      The word he uses for these symbols is Latin for "marks" not the latin word for "letters" .
      Runes are very clearly derived from Western Mediterranean alphabetic scripts, ultimately from Phoenician. probably specifically from Etruscan and or Alpine Italic scripts which Tacitus and any Roman would have been very familiar with. Most of them could read and write, and that would be the script they were using A first century Roman would have been able to more or less read some Runes A Roman would certainly have been able to recognize Runes as letters.
      Thus, if runes were clearly letters to any Roman looking whatever the Germanae were using in this divination ceremony werent letters
      Tacitus would not have used the word "marks" he would have called them what he saw" letters" Since he didnt call what he saw on the bits of wood letters, what was carved on them probably was not from the runic alphabet but were instead some other sorts of symbols and markings which were used for divination instead

    • @valerielecanasson4272
      @valerielecanasson4272 2 місяці тому

      @@craigsurette3438
      You analyze facts like a person from a modern world of a young country with your point of view and your level of life.
      Only 2% of the Roman Empire could read and write Greek and/or Latin. It was the highest class. The rest of the population was totally illiterate. And this was the case in Europe until the end of the nineteenth century.
      Roman soldiers were not tourists on a stroll, but conquerors who landed in a world totally foreign to their way of thinking or living.
      The Germans never wrote but used signs that were probably archaic runes for divination and the soldiers did not recognize them as traced letters for writing. For writing you need an united official language, tools, paper and ink. It was not the case in Germany.
      The Germans, lost in their deep forests, had no contact with the Etruscan or Phénician peoples.
      The only runes found were engraved a thousand years later by the Vikings.
      The engraved stick letters could never have been used as writing matter because they were not practical. But used for divination, written magic protection (Hàvamal) and giant funeral stones, because Germans, Romans, Vikings ...were supersticious people and believed in magic and afterlife worlds.
      Tacitus was never in Germany. It is confirmed. He stayed in Italy.
      He was just reporting oral testimonies. If you translate Tacitus, you realize that he was reporting facts that the witnesses did not understand and were trying to explain from their own points of reference.
      Even today, in France, there is a huge difference of behavior between the French in the North and the South. Between the Celto-Germanic French people and the Romanized French people. And France is indeed a united nation with one official language.
      And in Germany, it is worse.
      The wisest way is to say that no one knows the actual truth about Runes because nobody today could be in the head of a German, or Roman or Viking person at the moment of their way of life.
      We can just give hypothesis.

  • @thomaswillard6267
    @thomaswillard6267 Рік тому +4

    How do I get the feeling that his question was whether there's going to be a mrs. Crawford in the near future?

    • @kimfleury
      @kimfleury Рік тому +1

      Because romance questions are the most common nowadays.

  • @faramund9865
    @faramund9865 Рік тому

    I'll give an example as to what you said about the marks.
    In high school, we literally had an eraser, now mind you I didn't know ANYTHING at the time about divination or the history of it.
    I just put 'yes' on one side and 'no' on the other. Obviously this was a gag, and we called it the 'holy eraser'.
    Then we asked it rediculous questions and tossed it. Then laughed out loud over the answers.
    So as you say, the marks, could be anything. And obviously runes are a very tempting answer to the question as they are THE carvings associated with magic and by extension trying to obtain luck.

  • @johnholman3978
    @johnholman3978 Рік тому +2

    If, after a time, you are able to judge the accuracy of this rest please let us know. Without revealing your question, of course.

    • @PH4RX
      @PH4RX Рік тому +1

      How can you judge things that are related to your own life and thus influenced by your actions?
      It's a self fulfilling prophecy that is full of biases.
      That's why mysticism always "works" because it shifts failure onto the user (not having enough faith, still being tested, etc.) and success to the mystic power.
      There is a reason why this and other procedures require "serious" questions and not trivialities: it would be easy to see that it is bogus.

    • @Jayman2800
      @Jayman2800 Рік тому

      @PH4RX typically, you don't see people use trivialities during divination because you don't use divination for trivialities. I don't have to ask my dowsing rods if I should or shouldn't eat a candy bar on a certain day because I can make that choice for myself. You could think of divination as being a sort of "phone-a-friend". You don't use it unless you have a reason to, and even when you do, it doesn't always work. It only seems like it "always" works because people only tell you about the times when it does and never when it doesn't.

  • @happyhourk12
    @happyhourk12 Рік тому +1

    Sheep ankle bones have been used as dice (lots) since the Bronze Age. Look at the Greek concept of TALI AND TESSERAE

  • @MWodenberg
    @MWodenberg Рік тому

    Lindybeige has a video wherein a Roman?/Greek? general has the priest sacrifice several animals in succession until he gets his desired answer, so don't give up on the bones after just one try!
    I like Tarot cards as a method of divination. Because they are symbolically rich, the random draw can be made to fit any question. When we come to a fork in life's road, we often have an internal conflict of what we really desire vs what we think we should desire. The story we create allows us to transfer responsibility for the decision to the cards. It helps us clarify our thoughts.
    As a teenager I often used a coin flip. I came to realize that if I needed a coin toss to decide an issue, then it probably didn't matter which one I chose.

  • @blindpringles
    @blindpringles Рік тому

    I hope you're doing as alright as ya can doc.

  • @shadowulfhedinn8261
    @shadowulfhedinn8261 Рік тому

    This was very cool to see!

  • @fjallaxd7355
    @fjallaxd7355 Рік тому

    Good video.

  • @kimfleury
    @kimfleury Рік тому

    The sound of the wind rising as Jackson recited the spell was a bit ominous. I missed the card about the question (got distracted), so had to play the video twice to find out what the question was. I didn't expect it to be personal, being that you were demonstrating publicly. Anyway, such divination devices, in my opinion, should be treated like the knockers on the two doors, where one always lies and the other always tells the truth. Except if you only have one, you don't know which it is, and can't find out.

  • @pichan8841
    @pichan8841 Рік тому

    Not 'use it lightly' includes respecting the outcome. Whatever question you asked, make your plans according to the answer.

  • @deusfaust
    @deusfaust Рік тому +2

    Those sheeps knees are the bees knees!

  • @earnestwanderer2471
    @earnestwanderer2471 Рік тому +3

    I didn’t see any seams on that pouch. There’s only one natural pouch on a sheep, a ram specifically, that fits the Bill.

  • @stolman2197
    @stolman2197 Рік тому +1

    Astragalus bone (hindleg ankle)

  • @rufust.firefly6352
    @rufust.firefly6352 3 місяці тому

    I got a similar bag and method from Mongolia...

  • @Hin_Håle
    @Hin_Håle Рік тому

    In Sweden we use the bee's knees.

  • @thedamnyankee1
    @thedamnyankee1 Рік тому

    Im going to make all my players roll their D20s off their head from now on.

  • @seadawg93
    @seadawg93 Рік тому +1

    I think maybe they’re sheep knuckles. There is Mongolian divination, and games, that use 4 sheep knuckles.

  • @hawk_7000
    @hawk_7000 Рік тому +1

    So essentially a low-tech version of the "magic 8 ball"? 🤔

  • @KentoLeoDragon
    @KentoLeoDragon Рік тому

    Well, I've heard of water divination, no pun intended.

  • @dougalmctavish3915
    @dougalmctavish3915 Рік тому +2

    Heads or tails?

  • @blueunicornhere
    @blueunicornhere Рік тому

    Props are fine. My props are a ball cap, coffee mug and an ever present cigarette hanging from my mouth. If i dont have tjose three things people dont recognize me.

  • @vickijensen130
    @vickijensen130 Місяць тому

  • @beepboop204
    @beepboop204 Рік тому

  • @NSAJ33
    @NSAJ33 Рік тому

    Sheep bone stuff sounds like a tourism product.

    • @CountsDigGraves
      @CountsDigGraves Рік тому +1

      Sheep Bone Stuff was one of my favorite punk bands in college.

  • @h4rdkn0x
    @h4rdkn0x Рік тому

    Wonder if the flip of a coin is related to this.

  • @TheZinmo
    @TheZinmo Рік тому +1

    I don't think that bone is a part of a sheeps knee. Those look like one of the bones that build their feet. Sheep walk on their fingertips, these bones could be aequivalents of our phalanges.

  • @karennielsen9248
    @karennielsen9248 Рік тому

    What you asked is certainly none of our business, but please do let us know if the seeress was correct!!

  • @lindachandler6986
    @lindachandler6986 Рік тому

    try spin the lutefisk

  • @oldmanofthemountains3388
    @oldmanofthemountains3388 Рік тому

    Those are knuckle bones, my dude!

  • @faramund9865
    @faramund9865 Рік тому

    I think it's good you kept it to yourself, kept it secret.
    I don't think it would've worked otherwise.

    • @TrueFork
      @TrueFork Рік тому +1

      now I'm curious if the bone told the truth or ended in the chamberpot

  • @metalchemik
    @metalchemik 7 місяців тому

    So, has the bone said the truth?

  • @GrimLordofOregon
    @GrimLordofOregon Рік тому +1

    I guess it’s getting burned.

    • @kimfleury
      @kimfleury Рік тому +2

      I think he said it goes in the chamber pot.

  • @Wsp1457
    @Wsp1457 Рік тому

    I can prove to you 100% Odin is Realer than He is Percieved

  • @Wsp1457
    @Wsp1457 Рік тому

    Youre Missing out Jackson, Theirs More to the Mind and Soul then Dirt and Stone Can Teach. We are not all the Same lol.