Blacksmithing basic forge work - from making the fire to quenching and tempering
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- Опубліковано 11 жов 2024
- Basic blacksmithing demo from fire starting to coal to drawing, basic horn work, hardening and tempering of tool steel.
OK OK OK...there have been so many comments about the propane cylinders proximity to the forge that I have moved it so all of you people can sleep at night. Thank you for your concern! It is no longer there, please do not send me any more emails about.
Thank you, as someone with no idea about forging but wanting to get an idea of what I'm in for this video was very helpful. Going to start piecing my forge together and find/steal/build an anvil. trying to keep the budget to a minimum until I know if it is something I will enjoy or not. But thank you for a well done video.
THANK YOU! I've been researching heat treating, tempering, and quenching for months now to no avail. Just recently picked up the hobby a few months back and am finally getting around to finishing up my railroad track anvil and my brake drum forge. This is the first video that clicked for me so thanks again!
Glad to hear it Nick. It's really not complicated. Much of heat treating is just getting a feel for it. Get some various tool steels (I like O-1) and be sure to do some test pieces before treating any actual projects you have a lot of time in.
Very instructive, thank you. Your pronunciation of tuyère was spot on.
Excellent forge demo. Thank you very much for posting such an instructive video on the forge and working steel.
This is a great educational video, thank you. I was just asking guys on the facebook group, blacksmithing fir beginners this exact thing. heat treat and temper. thus video actually showed me. Awesome.
thanks for the demo and your time. I now understand tempering. thanks again.
Excellent, thank you. I'll be putting one together when our snows stop dumping on us...we've had over 12 feet and even though some has melted off and it has compacted down and frozen...we've still got 4 feet average with continuous fresh 1 foot ministorms that are making it hard to stay dug out.
+treborterb My wife would love to have so much snow...or thinks she would anyway.
I really really like the/your technical side of what you're doing. Thank you eh... Ü
so did 15 of you dislike the video because he got the names of the holes in his anvil mixed up? because it's a good video.
Very good and very detailed, nice video thanks for sharing
nice video . the clinkers are composed of aluminum, silica, some calciums and small amounts of iron dependent on the coal source used. the sulfur in coal burns off at these temperatures. congrats on putting together a beginners level video .
Many thanks Colonel! I would not have expected Aluminum in there! The silica makes sense, that's what it looks like. But the ones I get are mostly yellow to orange in color and so I assumed a sulphur content.
Thank you sharing this and breaking it down for us
No problem, glad it helped!
I have gotten several questions about how to use the hammer to move metal in certain ways. One way you can learn where to hit, pinch, or bend your material to get the shape you want is to use some artists clay and your anvil and hammers and what not. You won't need your tongs, obviously. I do this if I am trying to sort out the work flow for a complex piece before bothering to waste metal and coal on the idea. Shape the clay to the size of your starting stock and, gently, bang on it to figure the order out.
Why not practice on a thumb?
Are you volunteering? The video would doubtless get a lot of views, and there would be some educational content.
Great Video always good to learn new stuff!
good video. I am trying to be able to do blacksmithing like a hobby but i didn't have result. I have build my homade forge. Now i try to build my anvil. Not finished yet .
I try 2 times to started the forge fire and i didn't have good result. I bought coke (50 pounds bag) but didn't stayed burning... i will make another try soon... best regards
I enjoyed the video. I just decided to learn to make knives (meddo retire out of the army so i need a hobby). I had all the mats needed to make a forge (brake drum) in my scrap pile.. The tips on the fire are helpful. I seem to lose a lot of heat or something.. My metal doesnt go past orange where yours seemed almost white or yellow.
Your fire should be able to make anything glow white (and spark!) If you can't get it past magnetic, you are losing potential hardness. Might just need more air.
Very Informative! Thanks.
You are most welcome!
Very nice vid Stimp!
very nice post! thanks for sharing sir.
great video, lots of useful info
Some metals need to be quenched faster or slower than others. Water is a fast quench medium, oil (which is usually pre-heated) is a slower quench. The rate of quench has to do with how much carbon you want or need to trap in the steel. When you heat the steel enough the molecules expand enough that carbon atoms can migrate in between them, that is good as it makes the metal stronger, the quench cools the steel fast enough to trap the carbon. In high carbon metals, you don't need to trap as much, in lower carbon metals you need to trap all you can.
Yes, quenching in oil can be exciting, but not like a grease fire on a stove.
I've heard quenching in saltwater is a faster method than just water (while oil and muddy water slows it down). Would quenching into the ocean work with low carbon metals?
This is true, mostly because the salt changes the temp at which water boils. For low carbon metals, there is also a homebrewed quench made with water and various other things including dishwashing soap. It is generically referred to as a 'super-quench'. I have never tried it, it is also usually cooled as much as possible before the quench is done. If I am going to bother to make a real tool/blade, I am going to spend a little extra or take the time to find a quality steel to use.
You can (usually) test the carbon content of a steel by grinding it and looking at the sparks, the more complex they are (the more branches) the more carbon there is in the metal. Some alloys do not follow these rules.
Maraak .Nor Saltwater has a higher boiling point, so it is a faster quench than fresh water. Getting the forge near the ocean might be the tricky part!
stimpsonjcat67 not in Norway...
Maraak .Nor LOL, I guess you are right! The wife and I visited Norway in the 90's, very pretty country!
Thanks for posting!
No problem, the idea was to give a very basic intro. Glad you liked it!
great video , thanks
Awesome video! New sub
got to say it's a nice starting video
dont know abaut ur place but here we can buy coce :D
but got to ask again .... u got a 2.5 pound hammer
hehe ,,,, that's childs play
get a bigger one :D
but the video is a nice one
for beginers it's cool
It's for beginners, actually I did it for a company presentation where I work. People ask about this hobby a lot "So...you make horsehoes?" that's a farrier "What?" nevermind.
very helpful for a newbe as myself
Nice video. Have been trying to get into smithing as a hobby, but have done nothing but garnered the rage of my neighbors so =(
But as far as tools, is there anything in particular wrong with using a pair of chanelocks (water pump pliers, slidelock pliers, whatever you locally call them, I've heard literally dozens of ways in my travels) as tongs, and any old 2-3lb hammer (with a flat head)
I mean, is there any particular benefit to tongs? What about visegrips?
+Linkxsc Absolutely nothing wrong with using whatever gripping tools you have. You may want to consider grinding some of the teeth off if using pliers-style tools as they may make marks on your workpieces where you don't want to make marks. I have seen plenty of smiths weld various pieces of small channel to vice grips for use when holding stock of known and predictable dimensions, like when folks weld a holding bar onto a damascus billet during the drawing and folding portion of making the blade.
Channel-locks would be frustrating I would think, as it may be hard to keep them at the right offset. This is why you see a LOT of tongs in an active forge, as you want a tong that fits your current stock size and doesn't leave you fumbling with the tool when the work needs to be moved or held.
Hope that helps.
+Linkxsc Sorry I missed this comment. Any device that lets you hold hot metal without burning yourself or dropping the workpiece all the time will work fine. Tongs are generally sized for the size of material being worked so that you don't have to make any adjustments when grabbing the piece. Vice-grips would make me nuts having to undo the clamp everytime I want to let go or reposition the piece. You might also want to grind the teeth off any of those toothed tools to prevent marring up the work. A lot of the bladesmiths use tongs with rectangular jaws sized to the specific barstock sizes they use all the time for their knives.
Great video, thanks. How well does the Future 2 hold up to hot shoeing?
Jon Pass I don't do any farrier work. I do art pieces and blades only.
+stimpsonjcat67 where are you located?
+Jonathan prescott I am in Georgia
Throw away sulphur? Is it not worth gathering and selling, or using for other purposes?
if you like making gunpowder or other explosives then it's worth something... but not sure for much else... :/
It's not pure sulfur...it's just what doesn't burn out of the coal
Hey I'm beginning I was wondering if we'd be able to use Charcoal briskets mean I'm assuming you would have to use more of it but could it work
Steve Isham yes it can work. You will wind up using close to 4 times as much but it can be done. You can also make your own from wood that you can buy from Kroger or Walmart or what ever stores near you that sell wood. I can't remember what the process is called but it pretty much dries out the wood and chars it without fully burning it. Hope this helps. Good luck and may your steel be eternally strong
Charcoal and wood (which becomes charcoal when you burn it) will work, but as noted, you will need a lot more of it. Historically, a lot of the forest loss in North America was due to the demand for charcoal.
Why do some use oil as a quencher? What's the difference in slow quenching and fast quenching? Also, if you have time, is there any dangers in using oils such as exploding such as a stove fire?
The liquid you quench in depends on the steel you are using. I use mostly O-1 steel, which needs to be quenched in oil. There is also W type steel, which needs to be quenched in water. The lower the carbon content, the faster you have to quench.
Yes, there is a very real danger of fire when quenching in oil...see this newer video of a large blade quench.
ua-cam.com/video/56dfGvLgK3U/v-deo.html
how can u tell when the metal is ready to take it out and start shaping it? do u just pull it out until it looks hot enough? or can u tell by looking at it while its in the fire?
You get used to looking at if it is in the range you want. Too hot will get white and sparkly, like in the video. With mild steel, as long as it is radiant (glowing) you are fine to work it. For tool steels it gets a bit more complicated and you need to be careful not to hit it below certain temps or you risk forming cracks. You also should not just stare endlessly into the fire, it's bad for your eyes.
Can you share where it is that you found the inexpensive motors?
For the Tuyere motor? This is a very cheap squirrel-cage fan/motor from www.grainger.com
one problem i noticed is when you are heating your metal you dont put it at an angle like you did because it doesnt heat it evenly. you want to lay it flat so it heats evenly and it makes it easier to shape
This is really dependent on the size of the mass of coke that is providing the heat. In this case I was using a fairly small fire, not even above the level of the table, so yeah I had to angle it in more than I would for a larger piece. But unless we are talking about bladework, I admit I do not get too excited about perfectly even soaks. I usually use the propane forge for any serious tools that need even soaks. Thanks for the comment!
ok thanks.
thats usually all i do is blades and sometimes i'll make some armor
Armor? I am sooo jelly!
Im a newbie in foundry,
am i correct,
So this set up operate mainly on coal and blower?
Correct! I mostly use coal I get from a local Farrier supply store and then use an electric blower to move the air. I have a hand-cranked blower also, but don't use it.
thank you for the video and response. i'll try yo find a safe place to set one up. :)
Where do you live? I'll come by, teach me how to do this
I live in Georgia, USA.
Could you be a little more specific...that link just takes me to the granger home page and from there its a bit of a maze...a model number or pic or shot of the motor could help a little.
I think this is the exact one I used for the tuyere. www.grainger.com/product/DAYTON-Blower-1TDN3?functionCode=P2IDP2PCP
That O2 steel is meant to be quenched in OIL not water, W2 steel gets quenched in water, A2 in air and other steels in a Salt Brine. Water will cool O2 steel too fast promoting quench stress cracks that will lead to tool failure. Check: www.azom.com/article.aspx?ArticleID=2445
Gilberto Diaz Castro you are correct on all counts, but the intent was to make the steel as brittle as possible as a lesson.
I've tried to start the forge with coke but i found it impossible... first as you showed with paper, it just burned and nothing happened. Tried various ways, at the end i made a raging fire with wood and tossed the coke inside it, AND IT DIDN'T BURN -.-
Please, can you tell me what's going on here? u.u
You're sure it is coal/coke? I can use the method shown with green coal and it still works fine, though not nearly as fast as using coke, and much more smoke obviously. Coke that won't light makes no sense to me.
stimpsonjcat67 I bought it as coke, it's like a stone... The easyest method i found to do it is starting a fire with vegetal coal (is it charcoal? the one made with wood) and then cover it with coke. But it doesn't set in fire like yours, it just turns red, the temperatures are pretty decent (distracted with an SMS and a piece of spring melted)
Here you have an image, this is what I use: i01.i.aliimg.com/photo/v0/11594193/Foundry_Coke_Coal.jpg
OFC, I hammer it to smaller pieces.
Tomas Merino Got a picture?
I ended up starting with a small amount of kindling, works everytime ^^
Tuyere - pronounced, twee-er :)
why do you use cold water instead of oil to quench, im just trying to understand why different people use different things.
+connor imp In this particular case it wasn't important to get a proper quench. The one piece was A36 low carbon steel, so it wasn't going to harden anyway. The tool steel I just needed to get it brittle enough to show how brittle a hardened piece is before tempering. When I make knives and tools I use O-1 steel and I quench in a warmed oil bath. Low carbon steels need to be quenched faster than higher carbon steels (generalization), so you will see a lot of ice-water and even ice-salt-water quenches on youtube if the smith is using lower carbon steel.
stimpsonjcat67 ok, thanks.
stimpsonjcat67 how long do you leave the steel in the oil, to quench it.
+connor imp maybe 30 seconds, it's all over pretty fast.
stimpsonjcat67 ok, thanks. I cant do any of this stuff yet, im only 17 and dont have the space to do this stuff, but it really interests me and I really do want to get into it once I move out or whatever. So for now im just learning everything I can. Thanks so much for the help.
Had a major DON'T on our project. See what you think of our first video. Got excited and tried to cool down too soon -
Forging a Spiral Hook (then it broke) -
ua-cam.com/video/Tjn_J8PXYlc/v-deo.html
+Stacie Forest I don't bother quenching decorative stuff unless it has to pass some strength requirement...and if you do, be sure to temper it before any flexing is done. Remember the quench makes the metal hard but BRITTLE (assuming it has any decent carbon content). You don't note the metal type that I noticed...what is it?
I don't think you covered it in the video, but as far as I (a clueless amateur blacksmith who's about to get started) was aware, tempering was when you quenched it... but I have the feeling that's not so much the case :/
Charmle H Nope, for carbon metals, quenching (heating and quickly cooling) hardens the metal and tempering (heating hardened metal to a given lower temperature and cooling) softens the metal. For non-ferrous metals this works backwards. So to harden brass, you heat it up and let it cool slowly. And to soften brass you heat it up and cool it quickly.
so if I Quench say, a sword blade that I forge. Do I then heat it up and let it cool slowly so it doesn't become brittle? (Sword blades need to be very VERY tough/.hard but not brittle as I'm sure you're aware)
You didn't mention what the sword is made of, but assuming steel then you would heat it up and quench it quickly (make it harder than it needs to be), then heat it up again to a lower temperature to temper it (make it exactly the hardness it needs to be).
What magnet? 26:25
It's just a tray magnet, it doesn't make any difference the type as long as it doesn't have plastic or any coating that will melt. Or do you mean you don't see it? LOL, hard to get good camera help when it is freezing cold in the forge.
cat- if you have any home owners insurance on that shed or your home close by..theyll cancel it if tat bottle of propane is seen within 50 feet of any fire source..thats a federal madate..not state bro..better be moving it if your smart..
+usaisalwaysnumber1 I have removed the cylinder.
stimpsonjcat67 great to hear that bro-I didn't want to hear you got blowed up either.if you ever notice everywhere they fill or exchange bottles at,it always says do not bring bottles inside for any reason. LP gas is not like methane gas-natural Lp is heavier than air it lays on the ground an dosent disperse as methane does.methane is lighter than air an it disperses.Many a gas leake was LP in sheds as well as homes.dont want to see anybody die. Natural gas will blow as well if contained.but LP dosent disperse very rapidly even in the open.thus LP gas is the most dangerous.we were taught that in HVAC/R school.i hold a current hvac/r license as well as current fuel gas card.always be careful an NEVER store a tank inside reguardless of size bro.even one of those small 1 pound bottles at walmart will level a normal size house if it gets the right leake and air mixture.God Bless bro an be careful..
USAISALWAYS NUMBER1
is this something you can do with kids or is there toxic stuff in a smith room (no im not talking about heat and crush injuries toxicity so spare me the lecture about the heat and crush injuries thank you =)
How old are the kids? More importantly how well do they follow instructions? "Don't touch that" has serious consequences when you are dealing with radiant metals. My wife has learned not to assume anything not glowing in the shed is OK to touch, but it took some 'learning'. If they are competent and will follow instructions and not get bored and lazy, they should be fine. There are no hazardous substances involved except smoke if you use a coal fire. One caveat to that is NO GALVANIZED METAL. Heating galvanized metal will release a nerve agent that will kill you. If using uncoated 'normal' metals you should be good. Eye protection, gloves, and suitable clothing are mandatory for beginners.
hehe then itl b fine thank you for ur anser i did not expect to get a useful anser on you tube. if you mean with radient as in glowing? i hope you dont mean radient as in radioactive?
oh btw how 2 tell if its galv?
Radiant just means glowing, it IS a form of radiation, just not in the dangerous portion of the spectrum.
Trickier than you might think! Go to Home Depot and look at the fencing materials, you can also look at galvanized conduit in the electrical section. Look in the bolts/nuts aisle for galvanized bolts vs nickel or grade 8. Once you see what it looks like it is fairly obvious. It usually looks like a gray coating that feels 'dry'. Having said that, if I can't tell, it doesn't go in the fire. The rebar at depot is safe, you can tell cause it is usually rusting ;P Anything heavily rusted is not galvanized.
should really secure you anvil - youre wasting a lot of energy
+Gabriel Mabry The anvil is secured to a pretty heavy base.
+stimpsonjcat67 sorry i was seeing it walk around. Try securing the stand to the ground
+Gabriel Mabry I would, but I have intentions of making a power hammer....and I am not sure where the anvil will end up when that happens.
Soooo...I bought a power hammer. But the anvil is now bolted to a concrete base also. ua-cam.com/video/_xgJl8bwFoM/v-deo.html