I don’t want to create a controversy but the comparison here is between a high quality but mass produced watch (over 1 million a year) versus Grand Seiko which I believe prouduces approximately 60,OOO watches a year predominantly by hand. A greater proportion of the Rolex price tag is a marketing cost. I’ve been collecting watches for over 40 years and have owned a large number or Rolex and GS watches. I’ve worked in Supply Chain for 25 years and unfortunately Ben the cost of a Grand Seiko has a far greater labour component compared to a Rolex. Empirically the brands are different in their cost and manufacturing structure. Both are fabulous and to be admired. Sorry!
@@CasualWatchReviews agreed, this video isn't about the quality and design, technology, and talking about resale, values, rolex are machine made, mass producted marketing monster, This whole video is disingenuous and all to do with views, as the bloke knows rolex videos get more views
Well this is a good test for sure. If viewers want to see more like this the views will be a good indication. I do loads of other watch content as you will see and I did own both of the watches in this upload so I’m giving my genuine thoughts
It doesn't matter how much GS puts hand labor into watches. The bottom line is Rolex makes watches where designs and wearability appeals to a lot more people. GS watches tend to be more dressy in their design language. You really have like what they're offering to enjoy GS. If you mean marketing as in knowing what most people out there want in a watch, then yes Rolex does a great job marketing.
Ciao Sam, I hope this finds you and your family well. Not a fan of green dials in general, but I must say, I adore your DJ, just stunning. Wonderful video as always. I had no idea the GS had such poor resale, then again, great for finding a deal I suppose? I'm obviously in the Rolex camp, but I am warming to GS. Interestingly, my "issues", (if you can call it that), with GS are so different. If I ever find the time I would love to do a video like this, maybe next year 🤣🙏 KBO! Ta ta T. P.s. OMG, that Root beer at @5:20 🔥🔥🔥
Agree and disagree. Rolex is a great brand. Rolex is a boring brand. Grand Seiko innovates. GS innovates TOO MUCH - WAY TOO MANY releases. Rolex > GS when comparing bracelets. Rolex > GS resale value. But, I still enjoy wearing a GS more. They feel special and not just MASS PRODUCED like Rolex. (side note: Evo9 usually priced higher due to new movements)
All great points. I’d add another one: I hate all the GS limited editions. There have been a few GS models that have interested me, but they were limited editions set aside for another country or continent. I guess GS wants to keep its SKUs under control, but they leave me feeling left out.
I have both GS and Rolex, and I gravitate towards Rolex every time everyday. There’s something off about GS, whether the case shape, dimensions, bracelet or overpolished cases making it feel less of a tool…
Nice video. You said the bracelet on your 9f quartz wears really well. Likewise, my 39mm heritage model Grand Seiko spring drive also wears really well. But like you, I still wish it had micro adjustments. Although, the 5mm easylink or whatever Rolex calls it would be worthless for me as that’s too much. So it would have to be one of their glidelock models to factor in. Rolex watches are very well made and have great fit and finish but I think Grand Seiko is generally on par or better. For me, I like the Japanese aesthetic when it comes to culture, art, knives, fountain pens, etc. So the design of Grand Seiko and the dials really appeal to me. It’s also a plus to me that I don’t have to deal with the stigma of having a Rolex. I’ve had multiple people ask if my watch was a Rolex and I like being able to say no, it’s just a Seiko. Keep up the great videos.
Sam, have you tried the 62GS case (I recently bought a Ginza LE sbgh315) and compared to my Rolexes (40 & 41 mm subs, Batman GMT, 39mm OP) the GS wears much better. The GS bracelet: i really don’t get why everyone is complaining about the GS bracelets. I guess it’s easy howling with the wolves 😢. Have you noticed the poor case polishing on Rolexes lately? That was shocking when I npticed it.
Rolex watches are fantastic,however the snobbery and the waiting periods are on another level . Grand seiko needs to improve on the clasps ..they are to flimsy and not secure as a Rolex clasp .. I personally prefer Omega than Rolex or grand seiko .. Better price ,great quality and fantastic range .. The customer service at omega is second to none..No snobbery and you don’t have to wait for years like Rolex
Good points all around. I think where GS shines is with *dress* watches (not a popular segment of the watch market). Their sport watches are oddly styled, poorly proportioned and too dressy for my taste. On the other hand, GS dress watches are superb in many ways and even represent a "reasonable" value for what you are getting.
Agree with all your points, the only thing I would say is when I look at pre used, I’m not seeing any bargains! On the whole they bottom out the same as nearly all others. Look at Moser or Bvguari both excellent however drop like a stone after purchase, that’s normal. Rolex pre used is not normalised yet. Go back to 2015 and it wasn’t the way with them either, still a bit better to see but not stronger which is everything to do with brand recognition
This is a great point Mell, I do see a lot of people unwilling to go lower on GS. But if you looks at the charts on Chrono24 or the 'sold' ones on ebay, some really take a bath... like I did on the two I sold.
Your points are all valid, but I still bought 2 GS and no Rolex watches. I fully agree with you about your clunky spring drive sports watch, the bracelets, the lume, and the resale value, but my spring drive model is a 40mm titanium 62gs model which is far less clunky, I wear it on a strap, it has no lume, and I am not selling it. Rolex’ designs are far more consistent than Grand Seiko‘s, but I‘d rather have a brand that sometimes produces a great watch and sometimes a crap one. Rolex has great quality but the designs make me yawn.
Rolex and Grand Seiko are not directly comparable. Rolex watches are mass-produced, whereas Grand Seiko watches are produced in low volumes and largely handmade. It's akin to comparing an assembly line-made Audi to a hand-built Aston Martin. Both have their own merits and drawbacks. If you desire a finely crafted, handmade instrument, you might choose an Aston Martin or a Grand Seiko. On the other hand, if you prefer a mass-produced product with significant brand recognition and quality, an Audi or a Rolex would be suitable. Each option appeals to different preferences and values.
Hey, thanks for committing. Good question, I'm comparing them because I have owned both brands and more to counter the large volume of "GS is the new Rolex" or "GS is better than rolex" uploads other creators have made over recent years. I'm going to disagree with most of your comment respectfully. As most of my points were not about the production volumes. I guess brand recognition could be. Even if they are hand made that doesn't forgive the bracelets or wearability of the springdrive sports watch I had. It also doesn't explain the resale value being so poor, its not for Aston Martins. If anything it should go up if Grand Seiko is viewed as more exclusive.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts and for your insightful video. I once had the Rolex Explorer II 226570, which was great but I sold it (resale value, as you mentioned). I now have the Grand Seiko SBGE285. Best watch I’ve ever had. Still, I can understand if folks have a negative experience with GS, particularly their bracelets (which are fine for me). Anyway, cheers!
I tried on a GS yesterday, it was the quartz GMT, that watch ticked all the boxes for me and it was very much in the Goldilocks zone. yes yes I agree about micro adjustment on the bracelet but a lot of that is because populist sales, they allow you to develop those things. in the case of the watch I tried on that is going to be absolutely astonishing for a quartz. Worth noting monta has that bracelet quality so you are paying an awful lot of money when it comes to Rolex. I think personally the criticism is valid in the lower end steel models which have seen huge amounts of inflation.
I would agree with mostly all the points with the exception of price. Of course this is arbitrary to some degree, but I cant see how Rolex's prices are justified compared to any other brand including GS. When comparing pre-owned unworn conditioned watches, Omega, zenith, GS, Breitling etc. all seem to offer more value for money. Even the sister brand Tudor offer a steel diver that comes close to the Sub for nearly half the price
many of the factors you are talking about are not relevant to the enthusiast area so generally the person who buys that Rolex probably wonders where the battery is going to go .talking about the pitfalls but we not talking about the pitfalls of being able to walk into the shop and buy the watch in the first . Most of the things you have talked about are indeed down to name recognition. if you are an enthusiast, you are going to put up with some of the pitfalls.
Thanks for the video, but I’ll still pick the GS -wearing ‘experience’ (and not just for the character/quality of the designs) One unexpected but fun/rewarding characteristic? the community! the impromptu conversations w/ people I meet when out wearing the GS , is on a different level than with Rolex. Truly interesting, engaging characters, vs. , well…you know.
I've had three Rolex, still have one of those, I just never had the urge to look hard at Seiko. I'. pretty sure I did have a Seiko when I was a kid at one time or another.
I love both brands, but here are my fragmented thoughts: Grand Seiko's Sport Series is full of chonkers and should be avoided, aside from the fixed bezel models. GS clasps are horrible, so I can agree with that as an owner of two. Let's be real, resale value is awful for most entry level luxury watches (Omega, Longines, Oris, Zenith, etc.). I've experienced service from Tudor, Omega, Seiko and GS. Seiko and GS are by miles the most expedient and economical without cutting service experience. It took Omega as long to give me my service quote as it did for GS to service my SBGA469 and send it back to me.
I think your video is very fair. GS is best bought pre-owned per its loss of value as you state. As others have said, the two watch brands are probably more different than similar. But for the price they are near the same level.
All fair points Sam. As we know Rolex makes around 1.2million machine-made watches a year. They are of excellent quality and really well designed, no question. I would observe that if your concern is for resale, today you’ll also be disappointed if you try to sell your Rolex to a dealer. And Rolex is like Fame, to paraphrase the film/tv series; “Rolex servicing costs, and here’s where you start payin’ “. You also don’t buy a Rolex for exclusivity, and partly because there are so many out there they don’t have the caché, nor the cool, they once had. Nevertheless they are very well made. Then again you can buy a Proxima with a O-style case and O-style bracelet with OTF micro-adjust (and their own design of hands and dial), which I have done and it too is supremely comfortable, beautifully made and its PT5000 movement runs +2 secs per day…for £140 incl taxes. So…whatever works for you. 👍
Thanks for commenting! I do agree there are a lot of hype people wanting Rolex but they are great watches. I only bought them well into my watch collecting and UA-cam journey. I started off not liking them but when you handle a lot and own them they really are very good,
@@mema4922 did you? I mean, by simple horology - GS is superior. Japanese excellence and reliability. But if you want to compare reselling, the bracelet, the options of colours - these things are minor compared to the actual mechanics of the watch itself. There are clones for Rolex watches that are identical. Ever wonder why GS don’t have clones? Because they can’t replicate it. Doesn’t that tell you something.
@@penepatitenor GS do have clones. Secondly, no. GS mechanical movements are far less accurate than Rolex ones. No, it’s not just that, GS is often executed poorly, they typically lack overall refinement, and yeah don’t get me started on the bracelets/clasps.
I'm not sure how the wearability of a watch is minor? The bracelet is a big factor. Rolex movements are more accurate than the GS hi-beats... But if you were just looking for the mechanics of a watch based on performance you would buy one of Citizen's 'The Citizen'. Has a solar quartz with an accuracy to -5 seconds a year and is thermo-compensated. Level of finishing on par with GS. To make note also that nothing in my upload covered the movements and as someone mentioned there are clones of GS watches, I saw them advertised in Japan when I was there. As for the Japanese excellence comment, standard seiko's movements in most of their sub GS watches don't come close to their Swiss counterparts in terms of movement architecture, accuracy and reliability. But if you feel strongly on this, make an upload I will link it to this one so people can see the counter argument. If you don't have a YT channel I will upload it to mine.
I have tried on GS watches a few times and while I'm always wowed by the dials, when I put them on, I don't feel a thing. I have zero emotional response. Same day, trying on Rolex, Cartier, and Tudor-emotional response through the roof. I can't figure it out. I really want to love them but I just can't get there.
The real reason, investors decided to bet on Rolex. Good watches, they can't get near a 9F for accuracy and aren't any better finished. But investors love em. Otherwise it's really just the one sports SD model you don't like that you're comparing all of Rolex to?
Hey thanks for watching. There are actually three GS models in the upload (I owned) if you watched the full thing. One was a 9F. The citizen movement in ‘the citizen’ is actually more accurate than the 9F and the 9f is quartz. Rolex no longer have a quartz based watch. Any mechanical movement will be less accurate than a 9F or even a modest priced quartz watch. I have a $300 Vaer quartz thats more accurate than any mechanical watch ever made, even a spring drive. Watches are not good investments even Rolex. Most people would be much better investing in the stock market. Most proper investors know that.
Sure, I discounted the vintage one as a comparator (since we can't compare a new, 1960s GS to a similar Rolex) and the 9F variant isn't a Rolex competitor. Its competitors are the Longines Zulu, an Oris and perhaps a Tudor BB Pro. (Still waiting for The Citizen to become routinely available outside Japan and the USA) Really it's only the sports SD that is anywhere near Rolex money - and for the same cash you can just about reach to an entry-level Oyster. I agree about the investor part, although it didn't stop a load of them making out like bandits for several years!
Ridiculous video 1. Lume. Seiko Prospex have better lume than Rolex. GS doesn’t focus on lume 2. You said it yourself … bulky watches whether Rolex or GS will not “balance” well 3. Bracelet - GS prefer smaller, more elegant clasps 4. Resale value - this is for poor people. If you can’t afford to own a watch and absorb the depreciation don’t buy it The other “reasons” I won’t even bother with.
Hi, thanks for watching you clearly spent some time writing all that out. Let me address these as you listed them. 1. Lume, Seiko prospex does have better Lume. You may have missed that but I specifically said that in the upload. I used standard Seiko to compare to the awful lume on GS. 2. This is not what I said. I said Seiko is an expert in making larger watches that wear well and balance on your wrist. That GS GMT I had was one of the worst-balanced watches I have ever owned. They need to take a leaf out of the skill the main brand has in making balanced cases, even on huge watches. 3. No one prefers a clasp that can’t be adjusted for a better fit. 4. No one likes losing money on anything and I can guarantee wealthy people make sure they don’t lose money on things they invest in. GS watches depreciation is way out of line with most other watches regardless of price. Your last comment, I’m guessing you’re not going into my other points because you don’t have good counterarguments? You went to the effort of addressing only the first few so I don’t think it’s because you are so outraged at the others you don’t want to address them. More likely you just don’t have good counterpoints. Why don’t you clip this upload and make your own one going over all the points you perceive I got wrong and let the audience decide? I know you won’t but there is actually nothing stopping you.
I usually dont make negative comments, however this video is inaccurate in so many ways ... Accuracy GS spring drive wins hands down Execution GS wins , it is hand finished by the best craftsmen obsessed with perfection while rolex is mass produced by machines Innovation GS wins Dials GS wins Variety of movements GS wins , same applies to models and colors ... GS watches have a soul The only thing rolex wins with is the bracelet And value retention is going downhill since last year Modern rolex are for people in need of status illusion, people who appreciate horology will vo with GS... ( Generalising) And why even bother with rolex when you cant buy the model you want from a boutique? For years ... Why even bother ....
Hey, thanks for watching! Just to clarify, you’re not saying my arguments are inaccurate or wrong-you’re just adding additional points to support the Grand Seiko side of the argument, right? While Rolex prices on the pre-owned market have dropped, they rarely fall below retail, unlike most Grand Seikos that come up for sale. This is something easily verifiable on sites like Chrono24. And your final point… are you essentially saying that if you could get a Rolex, you would?
I've had my fair share of Rolex sport models 5 and 6 digits over my watch journey, and decided to walk away from that brand in late 2019 ... I wouldn't buy a Rolex today if I could walk into a boutique and pay retail for any desired model, or even with a discount as I don't like the brand image anymore. Don't get me wrong, the watches are well made yes, however it's nothing exceptional or extraordinary, yet it's boring and gets old as there's no to very little evolution. With Rolex it's 20% watch and 80% smoke and mirrors.... GS is 100% watch with the aim to reach perfection. Ofc nothing is perfect, the weakness of GS is the lack of micro adjustment on their bracelet and the clasp could be better yes. Rolex is strong on the brand name due to their marketing, thats all. GS makes better watches, more interesting watches, models, movements, no snobbery, better fit and finish, and they treat clients with respect and care... So there you go... Walk into a Rolex boutique to buy a sub, and walk into a GS boutique to buy a shunbun or a snowflake... And let's talk about the outcome.
Thanks for the reply! I’ve bought two Rolex watches from ADs without any issues-both great experiences. I agree that GS boutiques are also very friendly, and I’ve visited several, including the flagship store in Ginza. However, I have to disagree with you on the snobbery or toxicity of GS fans. Just take a look at the comments on another one of my uploads here: ua-cam.com/video/MLZHo99OYis/v-deo.html. While you may occasionally find a snobby Rolex fan, they typically know the least about what they’re talking about. In my experience, true Rolex enthusiasts appreciate multiple brands and have been some of the nicest collectors I’ve met. On the other hand, GS fans often believe they’re watch experts and part of an exclusive club that has discovered perfection. That’s where the snobbery comes in. It blinds them to the fact that for the most part GS watches are massively overpriced, something you can easily see the market has corrected on the preowned side.
@@CasualWatchReviews then you will need to share where you can walk in to a boutique to purchase a submariner for example, because it's seems that everyone but you has been on an endless waiting list. My comments are based on experience with ownership of both Rolex and GS, I'm no fan of either but my feedback is based on my decades of watch collecting. Case finishing don't tell me that Rolex does better than zaratsu? Same for brushed surfaces that are done by hand . Dial furniture such as indexes, hands, dial itself are you really saying that GS is inferior? Lume ok well, perhaps you didn't pick the best GS model to compare... Movement spring drive isn't it more accurate by far compared to Rolex accuracy? Isn't more innovative? More advanced etc ... I own Longines, Oris, GS, Seiko, and Omegas so as I'm not fan of GS at all... I appreciate any brand for what they may offer. In fairness the bracelet is better design from Rolex yes, eventually the rotating bezel on diving watch is as well better... I'm trying to be objective and fair, and your comparison isn't accurate in my opinion. Yet, if you want to bring comments from others I welcome you to check other established YT channels where it's quite the opposite of most of your inputs... And the comments sections are validating it as well. I understand that you didn't get the expected experience from the GS that you purchased, however let's be fair here. YMMV
At last, someone spoke the truth after all these years, where everyone praises grand Seiko! Thanks Sam. 👍🏻 GS are overpriced, ugly, nothing special, stupid bracelets and lugs, no class, no elegance, and the polishing is a scratch magnet. And why can’t they make a decent bracelet with tapering and adjustment? They have been making watches for more than 100 years! Also no lume, and the Seiko name is stupid. Everyone thinks you have a 300 dollar watch, and it looks like a cheap watch as well!
Nobody would think it was a 300 dollar watch, and even if they did, who cares? The days of Seiko being cheap watches is a bygone era. They sell watches worth thousands of dollars (USD) before you even get to GS.
Christopher Ward > Rolex > Grand Seiko. I'm glad I never bought into Grand Seiko. I was super impressed with the Lake Sewer one (ok Lake Suwa), until I looked at the clasp and there was no microadjust, let alone on-the-fly toolless microadjust. Then I asked about the servicing and if it could be serviced in Australia (the Spring Drive) and the guy said nope - has to be sent all the way back to Japan. Servicing time? Several months. Screw that. I don't want to send a watch to the other side of the world and be sweating on it for like half a year just to get it serviced. Give me a bog standard Sellita movement any day over that nonsense.
Many good points! I agree wholeheartedly and personally would add marketing to your list. I’m tired of the forced stories about nature and the constant limited editions that often are better looking than their flagship models.
I don’t want to create a controversy but the comparison here is between a high quality but mass produced watch (over 1 million a year) versus Grand Seiko which I believe prouduces approximately 60,OOO watches a year predominantly by hand. A greater proportion of the Rolex price tag is a marketing cost. I’ve been collecting watches for over 40 years and have owned a large number or Rolex and GS watches. I’ve worked in Supply Chain for 25 years and unfortunately Ben the cost of a Grand Seiko has a far greater labour component compared to a Rolex. Empirically the brands are different in their cost and manufacturing structure. Both are fabulous and to be admired. Sorry!
Thanks, all great points!
@@CasualWatchReviews agreed, this video isn't about the quality and design, technology, and talking about resale, values, rolex are machine made, mass producted marketing monster,
This whole video is disingenuous and all to do with views, as the bloke knows rolex videos get more views
Well this is a good test for sure. If viewers want to see more like this the views will be a good indication. I do loads of other watch content as you will see and I did own both of the watches in this upload so I’m giving my genuine thoughts
Grand seiko as a whole is not better than Rolex, they lack consistency and a strong identity. They lack overall refinement. They have so far to go.
It doesn't matter how much GS puts hand labor into watches. The bottom line is Rolex makes watches where designs and wearability appeals to a lot more people. GS watches tend to be more dressy in their design language. You really have like what they're offering to enjoy GS. If you mean marketing as in knowing what most people out there want in a watch, then yes Rolex does a great job marketing.
Ciao Sam, I hope this finds you and your family well.
Not a fan of green dials in general, but I must say, I adore your DJ, just stunning. Wonderful video as always. I had no idea the GS had such poor resale, then again, great for finding a deal I suppose? I'm obviously in the Rolex camp, but I am warming to GS. Interestingly, my "issues", (if you can call it that), with GS are so different. If I ever find the time I would love to do a video like this, maybe next year 🤣🙏 KBO!
Ta ta
T.
P.s. OMG, that Root beer at @5:20 🔥🔥🔥
Hey TGV, thanks. Yep absolutely let me know you’re always welcome on my channel.
Get in on the SBGW line man! some of the best GS dress watches are in there.
Agree and disagree. Rolex is a great brand. Rolex is a boring brand. Grand Seiko innovates. GS innovates TOO MUCH - WAY TOO MANY releases. Rolex > GS when comparing bracelets. Rolex > GS resale value. But, I still enjoy wearing a GS more. They feel special and not just MASS PRODUCED like Rolex.
(side note: Evo9 usually priced higher due to new movements)
All great points. I’d add another one: I hate all the GS limited editions. There have been a few GS models that have interested me, but they were limited editions set aside for another country or continent. I guess GS wants to keep its SKUs under control, but they leave me feeling left out.
No one complains about the butterfly clasps od AP and Omega's are the worst
I have both GS and Rolex, and I gravitate towards Rolex every time everyday. There’s something off about GS, whether the case shape, dimensions, bracelet or overpolished cases making it feel less of a tool…
but i still want a Spring Drive Diver one day.
That's why I bought GS in leather strap.
Nice video. You said the bracelet on your 9f quartz wears really well. Likewise, my 39mm heritage model Grand Seiko spring drive also wears really well. But like you, I still wish it had micro adjustments. Although, the 5mm easylink or whatever Rolex calls it would be worthless for me as that’s too much. So it would have to be one of their glidelock models to factor in. Rolex watches are very well made and have great fit and finish but I think Grand Seiko is generally on par or better. For me, I like the Japanese aesthetic when it comes to culture, art, knives, fountain pens, etc. So the design of Grand Seiko and the dials really appeal to me. It’s also a plus to me that I don’t have to deal with the stigma of having a Rolex. I’ve had multiple people ask if my watch was a Rolex and I like being able to say no, it’s just a Seiko. Keep up the great videos.
Cheers for adding your take Phil and thanks for watching!
I think you are correct
Sam, have you tried the 62GS case (I recently bought a Ginza LE sbgh315) and compared to my Rolexes (40 & 41 mm subs, Batman GMT, 39mm OP) the GS wears much better.
The GS bracelet: i really don’t get why everyone is complaining about the GS bracelets. I guess it’s easy howling with the wolves 😢.
Have you noticed the poor case polishing on Rolexes lately? That was shocking when I npticed it.
Rolex watches are fantastic,however the snobbery and the waiting periods are on another level .
Grand seiko needs to improve on the clasps ..they are to flimsy and not secure as a Rolex clasp ..
I personally prefer Omega than Rolex or grand seiko ..
Better price ,great quality and fantastic range ..
The customer service at omega is second to none..No snobbery and you don’t have to wait for years like Rolex
Good points all around. I think where GS shines is with *dress* watches (not a popular segment of the watch market). Their sport watches are oddly styled, poorly proportioned and too dressy for my taste. On the other hand, GS dress watches are superb in many ways and even represent a "reasonable" value for what you are getting.
I think you’re spot on. If I was buying one again I would go for a dressier one like the vintage one.
Agree with all your points, the only thing I would say is when I look at pre used, I’m not seeing any bargains! On the whole they bottom out the same as nearly all others. Look at Moser or Bvguari both excellent however drop like a stone after purchase, that’s normal. Rolex pre used is not normalised yet. Go back to 2015 and it wasn’t the way with them either, still a bit better to see but not stronger which is everything to do with brand recognition
This is a great point Mell, I do see a lot of people unwilling to go lower on GS. But if you looks at the charts on Chrono24 or the 'sold' ones on ebay, some really take a bath... like I did on the two I sold.
Your points are all valid, but I still bought 2 GS and no Rolex watches. I fully agree with you about your clunky spring drive sports watch, the bracelets, the lume, and the resale value, but my spring drive model is a 40mm titanium 62gs model which is far less clunky, I wear it on a strap, it has no lume, and I am not selling it.
Rolex’ designs are far more consistent than Grand Seiko‘s, but I‘d rather have a brand that sometimes produces a great watch and sometimes a crap one. Rolex has great quality but the designs make me yawn.
Hey thanks for watching and giving your opinion. Glad you like yours. I really wanted to love the ones I got but I never warmed to them.
Rolex and Grand Seiko are not directly comparable. Rolex watches are mass-produced, whereas Grand Seiko watches are produced in low volumes and largely handmade. It's akin to comparing an assembly line-made Audi to a hand-built Aston Martin. Both have their own merits and drawbacks.
If you desire a finely crafted, handmade instrument, you might choose an Aston Martin or a Grand Seiko. On the other hand, if you prefer a mass-produced product with significant brand recognition and quality, an Audi or a Rolex would be suitable. Each option appeals to different preferences and values.
Hey, thanks for committing. Good question, I'm comparing them because I have owned both brands and more to counter the large volume of "GS is the new Rolex" or "GS is better than rolex" uploads other creators have made over recent years.
I'm going to disagree with most of your comment respectfully. As most of my points were not about the production volumes. I guess brand recognition could be. Even if they are hand made that doesn't forgive the bracelets or wearability of the springdrive sports watch I had. It also doesn't explain the resale value being so poor, its not for Aston Martins. If anything it should go up if Grand Seiko is viewed as more exclusive.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts and for your insightful video. I once had the Rolex Explorer II 226570, which was great but I sold it (resale value, as you mentioned). I now have the Grand Seiko SBGE285. Best watch I’ve ever had. Still, I can understand if folks have a negative experience with GS, particularly their bracelets (which are fine for me). Anyway, cheers!
I tried on a GS yesterday, it was the quartz GMT, that watch ticked all the boxes for me and it was very much in the Goldilocks zone. yes yes I agree about micro adjustment on the bracelet but a lot of that is because populist sales, they allow you to develop those things. in the case of the watch I tried on that is going to be absolutely astonishing for a quartz. Worth noting monta has that bracelet quality so you are paying an awful lot of money when it comes to Rolex. I think personally the criticism is valid in the lower end steel models which have seen huge amounts of inflation.
I would agree with mostly all the points with the exception of price. Of course this is arbitrary to some degree, but I cant see how Rolex's prices are justified compared to any other brand including GS. When comparing pre-owned unworn conditioned watches, Omega, zenith, GS, Breitling etc. all seem to offer more value for money. Even the sister brand Tudor offer a steel diver that comes close to the Sub for nearly half the price
Yep I totally see your point, used Breitling is a good deal.
GS vs Rolex, not a proper comparison, the correct one is "GS vs Patek"... Rolex brand is a full marketing hype, that's all...
No😂😂😂 grand seiko is nowhere near Patek level. GS fan boys are deluded.
many of the factors you are talking about are not relevant to the enthusiast area so generally the person who buys that Rolex probably wonders where the battery is going to go .talking about the pitfalls but we not talking about the pitfalls of being able to walk into the shop and buy the watch in the first .
Most of the things you have talked about are indeed down to name recognition.
if you are an enthusiast, you are going to put up with some of the pitfalls.
I have a grand seiko and omega speedmaster and seamaster. The omega watches get the maximum wrist time as they are so comfortable.
Thanks for the video, but I’ll still pick the GS -wearing ‘experience’
(and not just for the character/quality of the designs)
One unexpected but fun/rewarding characteristic? the community!
the impromptu conversations w/ people I meet when out wearing the GS , is on a different level than with Rolex.
Truly interesting, engaging characters, vs. , well…you know.
I've had three Rolex, still have one of those, I just never had the urge to look hard at Seiko. I'. pretty sure I did have a Seiko when I was a kid at one time or another.
I love both brands, but here are my fragmented thoughts: Grand Seiko's Sport Series is full of chonkers and should be avoided, aside from the fixed bezel models. GS clasps are horrible, so I can agree with that as an owner of two. Let's be real, resale value is awful for most entry level luxury watches (Omega, Longines, Oris, Zenith, etc.). I've experienced service from Tudor, Omega, Seiko and GS. Seiko and GS are by miles the most expedient and economical without cutting service experience. It took Omega as long to give me my service quote as it did for GS to service my SBGA469 and send it back to me.
Hey, thanks for watching as adding your experience to this upload!
I think your video is very fair. GS is best bought pre-owned per its loss of value as you state. As others have said, the two watch brands are probably more different than similar. But for the price they are near the same level.
You nailed it!
All fair points Sam. As we know Rolex makes around 1.2million machine-made watches a year. They are of excellent quality and really well designed, no question. I would observe that if your concern is for resale, today you’ll also be disappointed if you try to sell your Rolex to a dealer. And Rolex is like Fame, to paraphrase the film/tv series; “Rolex servicing costs, and here’s where you start payin’ “. You also don’t buy a Rolex for exclusivity, and partly because there are so many out there they don’t have the caché, nor the cool, they once had. Nevertheless they are very well made. Then again you can buy a Proxima with a O-style case and O-style bracelet with OTF micro-adjust (and their own design of hands and dial), which I have done and it too is supremely comfortable, beautifully made and its PT5000 movement runs +2 secs per day…for £140 incl taxes. So…whatever works for you. 👍
Thanks for watching mate! Good points!
Everyone knows that Rolex totally crushes Grand Seiko!!! It’s a PROVEN HOROLOGICAL FACT! So deal with it!!!
I agree!!
Watchmaking - GS. By a mile.
Rolex - just people who wanna ride the hype train.
Did you even watch the video? GS has so far to go. Rolex is significantly better
Thanks for commenting! I do agree there are a lot of hype people wanting Rolex but they are great watches. I only bought them well into my watch collecting and UA-cam journey. I started off not liking them but when you handle a lot and own them they really are very good,
@@mema4922 did you? I mean, by simple horology - GS is superior. Japanese excellence and reliability. But if you want to compare reselling, the bracelet, the options of colours - these things are minor compared to the actual mechanics of the watch itself. There are clones for Rolex watches that are identical. Ever wonder why GS don’t have clones? Because they can’t replicate it. Doesn’t that tell you something.
@@penepatitenor GS do have clones.
Secondly, no. GS mechanical movements are far less accurate than Rolex ones. No, it’s not just that, GS is often executed poorly, they typically lack overall refinement, and yeah don’t get me started on the bracelets/clasps.
I'm not sure how the wearability of a watch is minor? The bracelet is a big factor. Rolex movements are more accurate than the GS hi-beats... But if you were just looking for the mechanics of a watch based on performance you would buy one of Citizen's 'The Citizen'. Has a solar quartz with an accuracy to -5 seconds a year and is thermo-compensated. Level of finishing on par with GS.
To make note also that nothing in my upload covered the movements and as someone mentioned there are clones of GS watches, I saw them advertised in Japan when I was there. As for the Japanese excellence comment, standard seiko's movements in most of their sub GS watches don't come close to their Swiss counterparts in terms of movement architecture, accuracy and reliability.
But if you feel strongly on this, make an upload I will link it to this one so people can see the counter argument. If you don't have a YT channel I will upload it to mine.
What you say makes a lot of sense. 💪 Rolex does seem better at all the tangibles
I have tried on GS watches a few times and while I'm always wowed by the dials, when I put them on, I don't feel a thing. I have zero emotional response. Same day, trying on Rolex, Cartier, and Tudor-emotional response through the roof. I can't figure it out. I really want to love them but I just can't get there.
Yep thats actually a very good point I felt the same. Maybe I will add that to a part 2
It is called marketing.
Research Pavlov's dogs.
I would research it but i'm too busy waiting for a light to go on so I know there is food coming.
The real reason, investors decided to bet on Rolex. Good watches, they can't get near a 9F for accuracy and aren't any better finished. But investors love em.
Otherwise it's really just the one sports SD model you don't like that you're comparing all of Rolex to?
Hey thanks for watching. There are actually three GS models in the upload (I owned) if you watched the full thing. One was a 9F. The citizen movement in ‘the citizen’ is actually more accurate than the 9F and the 9f is quartz. Rolex no longer have a quartz based watch. Any mechanical movement will be less accurate than a 9F or even a modest priced quartz watch. I have a $300 Vaer quartz thats more accurate than any mechanical watch ever made, even a spring drive. Watches are not good investments even Rolex. Most people would be much better investing in the stock market. Most proper investors know that.
Sure, I discounted the vintage one as a comparator (since we can't compare a new, 1960s GS to a similar Rolex) and the 9F variant isn't a Rolex competitor. Its competitors are the Longines Zulu, an Oris and perhaps a Tudor BB Pro. (Still waiting for The Citizen to become routinely available outside Japan and the USA) Really it's only the sports SD that is anywhere near Rolex money - and for the same cash you can just about reach to an entry-level Oyster. I agree about the investor part, although it didn't stop a load of them making out like bandits for several years!
Though I agree with these points, GS does some things better than Rolex too
Almost totally disagree. Some of the reasons are kind of silly, some are non-sensical. But that’s ok, we’re all here for it. Nice vid 😎👍🏼
I don't understand how GS and most Seikos consistently fail on bracelets, something that even cheapo microbrands do better.
That s why rolex is no1 since decades: "there is no smoke without fire" as we say in french. 😉
Ridiculous video
1. Lume. Seiko Prospex have better lume than Rolex. GS doesn’t focus on lume
2. You said it yourself … bulky watches whether Rolex or GS will not “balance” well
3. Bracelet - GS prefer smaller, more elegant clasps
4. Resale value - this is for poor people. If you can’t afford to own a watch and absorb the depreciation don’t buy it
The other “reasons” I won’t even bother with.
Hi, thanks for watching you clearly spent some time writing all that out. Let me address these as you listed them.
1. Lume, Seiko prospex does have better Lume. You may have missed that but I specifically said that in the upload. I used standard Seiko to compare to the awful lume on GS.
2. This is not what I said. I said Seiko is an expert in making larger watches that wear well and balance on your wrist. That GS GMT I had was one of the worst-balanced watches I have ever owned. They need to take a leaf out of the skill the main brand has in making balanced cases, even on huge watches.
3. No one prefers a clasp that can’t be adjusted for a better fit.
4. No one likes losing money on anything and I can guarantee wealthy people make sure they don’t lose money on things they invest in. GS watches depreciation is way out of line with most other watches regardless of price.
Your last comment, I’m guessing you’re not going into my other points because you don’t have good counterarguments? You went to the effort of addressing only the first few so I don’t think it’s because you are so outraged at the others you don’t want to address them. More likely you just don’t have good counterpoints.
Why don’t you clip this upload and make your own one going over all the points you perceive I got wrong and let the audience decide? I know you won’t but there is actually nothing stopping you.
I usually dont make negative comments, however this video is inaccurate in so many ways ...
Accuracy GS spring drive wins hands down
Execution GS wins , it is hand finished by the best craftsmen obsessed with perfection while rolex is mass produced by machines
Innovation GS wins
Dials GS wins
Variety of movements GS wins , same applies to models and colors ...
GS watches have a soul
The only thing rolex wins with is the bracelet
And value retention is going downhill since last year
Modern rolex are for people in need of status illusion, people who appreciate horology will vo with GS... ( Generalising)
And why even bother with rolex when you cant buy the model you want from a boutique? For years ... Why even bother ....
Hey, thanks for watching! Just to clarify, you’re not saying my arguments are inaccurate or wrong-you’re just adding additional points to support the Grand Seiko side of the argument, right?
While Rolex prices on the pre-owned market have dropped, they rarely fall below retail, unlike most Grand Seikos that come up for sale. This is something easily verifiable on sites like Chrono24.
And your final point… are you essentially saying that if you could get a Rolex, you would?
I've had my fair share of Rolex sport models 5 and 6 digits over my watch journey, and decided to walk away from that brand in late 2019 ... I wouldn't buy a Rolex today if I could walk into a boutique and pay retail for any desired model, or even with a discount as I don't like the brand image anymore. Don't get me wrong, the watches are well made yes, however it's nothing exceptional or extraordinary, yet it's boring and gets old as there's no to very little evolution.
With Rolex it's 20% watch and 80% smoke and mirrors.... GS is 100% watch with the aim to reach perfection. Ofc nothing is perfect, the weakness of GS is the lack of micro adjustment on their bracelet and the clasp could be better yes.
Rolex is strong on the brand name due to their marketing, thats all.
GS makes better watches, more interesting watches, models, movements, no snobbery, better fit and finish, and they treat clients with respect and care... So there you go...
Walk into a Rolex boutique to buy a sub, and walk into a GS boutique to buy a shunbun or a snowflake... And let's talk about the outcome.
Thanks for the reply! I’ve bought two Rolex watches from ADs without any issues-both great experiences. I agree that GS boutiques are also very friendly, and I’ve visited several, including the flagship store in Ginza.
However, I have to disagree with you on the snobbery or toxicity of GS fans. Just take a look at the comments on another one of my uploads here: ua-cam.com/video/MLZHo99OYis/v-deo.html. While you may occasionally find a snobby Rolex fan, they typically know the least about what they’re talking about.
In my experience, true Rolex enthusiasts appreciate multiple brands and have been some of the nicest collectors I’ve met. On the other hand, GS fans often believe they’re watch experts and part of an exclusive club that has discovered perfection. That’s where the snobbery comes in. It blinds them to the fact that for the most part GS watches are massively overpriced, something you can easily see the market has corrected on the preowned side.
@@CasualWatchReviews then you will need to share where you can walk in to a boutique to purchase a submariner for example, because it's seems that everyone but you has been on an endless waiting list.
My comments are based on experience with ownership of both Rolex and GS, I'm no fan of either but my feedback is based on my decades of watch collecting.
Case finishing don't tell me that Rolex does better than zaratsu? Same for brushed surfaces that are done by hand . Dial furniture such as indexes, hands, dial itself are you really saying that GS is inferior?
Lume ok well, perhaps you didn't pick the best GS model to compare...
Movement spring drive isn't it more accurate by far compared to Rolex accuracy? Isn't more innovative? More advanced etc ...
I own Longines, Oris, GS, Seiko, and Omegas so as I'm not fan of GS at all... I appreciate any brand for what they may offer.
In fairness the bracelet is better design from Rolex yes, eventually the rotating bezel on diving watch is as well better...
I'm trying to be objective and fair, and your comparison isn't accurate in my opinion.
Yet, if you want to bring comments from others I welcome you to check other established YT channels where it's quite the opposite of most of your inputs... And the comments sections are validating it as well.
I understand that you didn't get the expected experience from the GS that you purchased, however let's be fair here.
YMMV
Rolex is just a trashy brand imho.
Grand Seiko is just TOO Japanese for the rest of the world.
GS look generic to me, don't like the hands either. Spring drive is just a quartz-better to have a solar quartz
At last, someone spoke the truth after all these years, where everyone praises grand Seiko! Thanks Sam. 👍🏻 GS are overpriced, ugly, nothing special, stupid bracelets and lugs, no class, no elegance, and the polishing is a scratch magnet. And why can’t they make a decent bracelet with tapering and adjustment? They have been making watches for more than 100 years! Also no lume, and the Seiko name is stupid. Everyone thinks you have a 300 dollar watch, and it looks like a cheap watch as well!
Pure ignorance. Everyone thinks you have a 300 dollar watch lol.
GS look anything but cheap. Go to a store and try them on with glasses.
@@lamentate07 I have tried them on, I’m lucky to live in a country where we have a GS main boutique. 🤮
Nobody would think it was a 300 dollar watch, and even if they did, who cares?
The days of Seiko being cheap watches is a bygone era. They sell watches worth thousands of dollars (USD) before you even get to GS.
Christopher Ward > Rolex > Grand Seiko. I'm glad I never bought into Grand Seiko. I was super impressed with the Lake Sewer one (ok Lake Suwa), until I looked at the clasp and there was no microadjust, let alone on-the-fly toolless microadjust. Then I asked about the servicing and if it could be serviced in Australia (the Spring Drive) and the guy said nope - has to be sent all the way back to Japan. Servicing time? Several months. Screw that. I don't want to send a watch to the other side of the world and be sweating on it for like half a year just to get it serviced. Give me a bog standard Sellita movement any day over that nonsense.
San Martin lume: better than both Rolex and Grand Seiko😂
😂😂😂😂😂 no
Many good points! I agree wholeheartedly and personally would add marketing to your list. I’m tired of the forced stories about nature and the constant limited editions that often are better looking than their flagship models.