What?! We have no original Bible? Just some papyri?
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- Опубліковано 27 вер 2024
- Jon Spoonfed Dean asked a good question: “Strange how they didn’t preserve the early bible nor the Quran ...is that because the “books” were not important or created at the time or the prophets? The messenger delivers the basic guidelines and then hundreds of years later politics jumps on the branding and develops “books”
Y K asked a similar question, saying, “My point is that you show fourth century AD Bibles the same way that there are 4th/ 5th century AH Qurans. What you allude to is that since the cult of Muhammad is about 600 years younger than that of Christ, the later should be judged by higher standards”?
And finally Pub Lunch similarly states, “An issue is that Jay says the NT was written down within the lifetime of the people who knew Jesus, yet the earliest manuscripts are from 300 years later? Isn’t that the same as the oldest manuscript for the Koran?”
These are valid questions, suggesting that I'm not using the same criteria for both the Bible and the Qur'an when demanding original manuscripts.
So, let me help you understand why you can't do a like-with-like comparison, because the environment when the Bible was written was completely different than that when the Qur'an was written 600 years later.
Up until the 4th century, Christians were a poor and persecuted community, and had to hide from the hostile authorities (i.e. the Romans), so that all of their Bibles were written on Papyrus (interlocking papyrus leaves), a poor man's paper, which disintegrated within 100 years because it was written only on very fragile leaves. That is why we wouldn't expect to find any of the original Biblical writings.
What's more, in around 300 AD thousands of Bibles were destroyed and burned by the Edict of Diocletion, so that by the 4th century, only fragments of papyrus remained.
Muslims, however, cannot make the same excuse for not finding any of their original Qur'ans, since their traditions tell us that all of their earliest Qur'ans were commissioned and produced by Caliphs, who were extremely wealthy and powerful, and so could easily afford to write their Qur'ans on Parchment and Vellum (i.e. animal skins), which are very expensive to cure, but because of their durability can last for 1000s of years.
Consequently, all of their earliest existing 8th and 9th century Qur'ans (i.e. the Topkapi, the Samarkand, the Ma'il, the Petropolitanus, the Huseini and the Sana'a manuscripts) are all written on durable parchments.
That is why we must refrain from including both the Biblical and Qur'anic manuscripts in the same basket. We wouldn't expect the Biblical Papyrus manuscripts to be around today, whereas there is no excuse for an Uthmanic manuscript, or even the 5 copies, sent to the 5 cities in 652 AD, all written on Parchment not surviving the intervening 1400 years, which is a very short time for parchment.
Can you now understand, therefore, why I'm asking Muslims why they haven't been able to preserve even 1 of the 5 Qur'ans written on animal skins and commissioned by Uthman in 652 AD, and then sent to 5 cities; in fact sent there for that very reason...to preserve them?
KidCSky summarizes it well when he says, “Essentially the Uthmanic codex, as of right now, is nothing more than a moniker (nickname) out of academic respect for a religion that claims there should be one. I’m not sure if Muslims themselves actually believe the story found in the Sunnah concerning how their Qur'an was created is anything more than propaganda".
© Pfander Centre for Apologetics - US, 2020
(44,080) epic-trailer--by-rafael-krux-from-filmmusic-io
The one thing university has taught me is to question everything. The bible answered all of my question the quran did not. Islam cannot defend itself. If you take time to study you will understand that Jesus came to fulfill the old testament laws, while Mohammed came and did a complete 180... I choose the Son of God.
Its good that you applied critical thinking to Islam! 👍
About Christian origins:
Christianity was born from Buddhism (by Jewish Pythogorean Buddhists in 100 BCE to 150 CE).
Read the works of Dr Micheal Lockwood (Buddhism's relation to Christianity & Unknown Buddha). And research of Prof Christian Lindtner. www.jesusisbuddha.com/
Christianity began with Essenes or Theraputaes or Nazarenes in 100 BCE who were Jewish Buddhist Monks & Nuns. This was exported to Israel, Syria, Iraq & Egypt from India in the rule of Kushana in 100 BCE. The so-called Ashoka pillars in India (they are actually Kushan pillars) mention this. They are dated to 100 BCE. Philo of Alexandria (who belonged to 20 BCE to 50 CE) mentions them in glowing terms. Most probably, Philo was a Jewish Pythogorean Buddhist. Remember, prominent Christian ideas like 'Logos' & 'Trinity' were given by Philo of Alexandria.
sacred-texts.com/bud/ipc/ipc13.htm
Buddhist Sources of New Testament are:
1) MulaSarvaAstivadaVinaya
2) SaddhDharmaPundarika Sutram
3) Lalita Vistara
About Islam's connection to Christianity:
Alien (& illogical) concepts like original sin were included into Christianity (and the doctrine of reincarnation & Karma was deleted. Originally, Reincarnation was part of Christianity because Christianity started off as a branch of Buddhism. Emperor Justinian removed it. Without the concept of reincarnation, the concept of eternal heaven & eternal hell become meaningless and even unjust).
Original Sin was a manichean concept. It was imported into Christianity. This caused a schism known as Nestorian Schism. In the councils held in 430 CE (immediately after the death of Augustine), original Sin concept was formally adopted by church. This adoption of manichean concept created a rebellion by Assyrian Church (Iraq) & Syrian Church (Syria). (Greek church also opposed original sin idea). Manicheanism was born in Iran & popular in middle-east & north africa. So, Iraqi & Syrian christians knew that original sin was a core doctrine of manicheanism. So, they vigorously oppossed it being introduced into christianity. One of the objections to original sin doctrine is that: if all humans are born sinners, wouldnt it make jesus also a sinner because he was also born as human. This created a whole debate on whether jesus was a human or divine or both.
In the council held in 450 CE, Original Sin was again adopted by Latin Church and Jesus was declared as divine & human simultaneously (as illogical as it is). This was the last straw for the christians of Iraq & Syria. And it caused the Nestorian Schism (churches of Iraq & Syria separated from Latin Church). Later, Nestorian Christianity (of Syria & Iraq) morphed into Islam.
Similarly, Crucifix was imported into Christianity from Egyptian Ankh. (But, this part is not unusual to Buddhism. Buddhism always adopted local customs whenever it spread to a new place.) But, Islam rejects the crucifix for this reason. (But, strangely, orthodox Islam also adopted the view that freewill does not exist which is a derivative of original sin concept).
@Who else did you have in mind? Could you be more specific? Which point are you referring to?
@Who else did you have in mind? Yes, look into the scholars I mentioned.
Infact, there have been lots of scholars who have done research on Buddhist antecedents of Christianity. I will try to create a list for you. But, you can search for it on your own as well.
About essenes (or Theraputaes or Nazarenes):
The monastic hermitages is a typical Indian idea. Hindus, Buddhists & Jains have monastic hermitages throughout history (atleast from 2000 BCE). But, this practice was alien to rest of the world (particularly Jews). Because for Jews (like most civs), marital life was an important religious & social obligation. So, Essnes (who were Jewish monks) show typical Indian practice (unmistakeable resemblence to Buddhism).
Yes 💯 and not only that. But the claim muslims make that they fallow sll the previous prophets before muhammed is just laughable. Not only DONT they fallow the prophets from before, but muhammed BROKE EVERY SINGLE command from the prophets before. Yes even the command in ONE God wich they boast so much about. When mihammed bowed down to
Allat, al-Uzza and Manat. He broke them all!!
@Who else did you have in mind?
Amazon link to his book's review:
www.amazon.com/Buddhisms-Relation-Christianity-Review-Murdock-ebook/dp/B00K0V922Q
Preview of his book:
www.academia.edu/32342417/Buddhisms_Relation_to_Christianity
This site seems to have some excerpts from his work (but I am not sure...)
thaimangoes.blogspot.com/2009/08/d6.html?m=1
It is actually amazing that we have even fragments of papyrus left! Thanks so much my Dear Brother Dr. Jay! Well done!
The Gospel of Mary Magdalene is controversial. But it shows that Muhammad was not the first feminist. Then the question is what would have happened if Islamists had found a female gospel. There is a risk that they would have burned it
@@Andersljungberg One doesn't need ANY proof that Muhammad was the first feminist hahahahah! He was NOT supportive of women EVER. Show me one statement of his where he treats and commands others to treat women as equals to men.
@@Andersljungberg I am afraid that if you think that the Gospel of Mary Magdalene is a Feminist Thesis you are very misled. It anticipates the feminine being consumed by the masculine.
ua-cam.com/video/qsv9KK2fnvA/v-deo.html
@@flamethrower179 Do you watch random youtube videos that strangers send you?
The Dead Sea scrolls were discovered in 1947 and they date back to 150 years before Jesus was born.Included are the book of Isaiah which was written 750 years before Jesus. We have 1000s of ancient manuscripts and we never destroy any manuscripts because we have nothing to hide or deceive. We are proud of every word of the Bible. In Ireland we have the book of Kells dating back to 500 ad and the book of durrow. In 1980 we found the book of psalms buried in a peat bog and it was preserved perfectly.
Yes bogs keep thing new! Hhmm, the Lord using nature
Is it true that the Book of Esther is missing from the Dead Sea scrolls?
@@jesussavedme2213 yes Christianity came to Ireland in 432 ad..and Ireland accepted Christianity and became known as the Island of Saints and scholars. In 1169 we were invaded by the Normans who introduced religion Today many are accepted Jesus as Lord and are born again. The Bibles were buried in bogs for preservation in times of persecution..I’ve subscribed to your UA-cam channel and I now have started a youtube channel with 31 videos to date Kindly subscribe to my youtube channel and share the videos
I hope you realize jesus or John the Baptist were not mentioned in the Dead Sea scrolls! The Greek rulers put together the new testament and was not inspired by the fictional character god!
@@snowrider4495 Yes both the Old Testament and New Testament is all about the Lord Jesus and his wonderful salvation message. John 5:39. All blessings to you and your family and ministry in Jesus name Love from Ireland. I’ve subscribed to your UA-cam channel and I now have started a youtube channel
Now I understand your point. And now I completely agree with you. Where are those five parchments of the Qur ´an? They were in power, they were rich, they would have them protected and preserved. I believe they just never existed in the first place.
Haha you so funny while our quran not a size of credit card been memories and not copy another copy that copy mistake
Good one but it's been memorized word by word letter by letter. Even my 8yr old nephew knows the whole ARABIC Quran by memory. Can't say the same with Christians. Even one chapter? Verse? Lol 😂 but good try though.
@@ayeikareviews6127 brainwashing goes a long way. what version of the quran did your 8 year old memorize?
@@eijakhajat8782 what are you talking about? there have been hundreds of variations of the quran, 30 of which are still sold. we also know the Bible is about 99.9% accurate to the first century AD writings.
@@eijakhajat8782 shame you dont know the facts about your book, yes it has been changed so has the bible. 20 different versions of the qur'an have been written 7 are recorded in hadith.
A brief summary of the etymology of some terms:
The word PAPER was derived from the word PAPYRUS, which was the common surface for writing in Biblical times and would have been the only option if you were not rich enough to afford parchment or velum, as Jay explained. Other than these means of recording drawings or words in ancient times, rock or clay inscriptions were about the only options.
The word parchment comes from the word PARCH which means to dry - as Jay explained: dried animal hides.
Veal is the word for the meat of calves, thus velum is from the hides of calves, as Jay noted.
Realizing the amount of work required to make scrolls or books by those means makes you really appreciate the way that paper is manufactured in bulk today from wood pulp and considering that hand copying was for centuries the only means of recording things makes you really appreciate how important was the invention of the printing press by Gutenburg and its subsequent development.
Another invention which has become extremely important just within my lifetime is the photocopier, which is one of the machines I serviced and repaired during my working years. A related machine which was important for a few decades was the fax machine which, thanks to ever improving digital technology, is now integrated into scanner/printer/fax/photocopiers, known as multi-function units. Of course, the computer and the internet have become vital to the communication of ideas, but the technology of the printing press and the photocopier are still important in printing out hard copies of anything and these are components of computer networks all over the world.
Thanks Sandy for your background notes!
@@pfanderfilms What is your assessment of Pirenne's thesis, and Emmet Scott's exposition of it in his book, Mohammed & Charlemagne revisited, where he brings to bear much archeological evidence in support of Pirenne? They hold that it was not barbarians that brought about the end of the Classical Age, but the destruction by the muslim invasions, and the severing of Africa and Europe by the Barbary pirates, cutting off papyrus supplies. They also address an apparent time gap, and I wonder if some of the more recent discoveries that you are bringing to light may address this issue as well.
Just because you have papyri from 1600- 2000 years after the revelation of the Torah doesn't mean it's legit. 2000 years is a long time to change scripture. However the Birmingham manuscript proves the Quran we have now has not been changed from the time of alleged revelation. Christianity (paganism) debunked so easily with a bit of logic.
@@abdul-hadidadkhah1459 Thanks ua-cam.com/video/eL7BIGnj4SA/v-deo.html
@@abdul-hadidadkhah1459 But God in His wisdom has given us the true living Word of God, who lives in believing Christians through His spirit, giving us understanding and discernment according to His righteousness. It is written that we won't even need any human to teach us anything. That is because Christ through the Holy Spirit instructs us about all truth.
I suspect your idea of the Quran is merely a metaphor for our true uncreated Word of God that lives in us.
Oooh tutututtutututu! Happy new year Dr Jay Smith
The sheep ate them. It was under the bed.
Haa ...Yes. By the way if Koran eaten by goat then they never eat goat as remember that goat produced offspring
ua-cam.com/video/qsv9KK2fnvA/v-deo.html
i have been told in an argument with someone that this is an unreliable hadith, anyone have any thoughts?
@@Xenotypic they agree the verse was there , but they dont agree if it was abrogated or eaten
the dog ate my homework was alway my go to at school when i hadnt done my homework......i had know idea that this excuse was from antiquity!!! go me and bumble (said afore mentioned dog!)
Dear brother Jay, the other thing about the biblical manuscripts according to Dr James White is the fact that biblical manuscripts are copied freely and without "censorship", and with the mass of manuscripts from completely different strands of copies of copies of copies, they still have the consistency of account despite the transcription errors or even scribal insertions. Combined with writings of the early church fathers referring to the original scripts, I believe that Dr Daniel Wallace is confident that the original texts can be reconstructed from all these sources.
@Muhammad Ali
over 99% of differences in Bible manuscripts change no meaning whatsoever. Only in limited cases are there any significant changes. Longer ending of mark, pericope adulterae. Other than that, the Bible is remarkably consistent, even though it had been copied by anyone and everyone, not controlled by any one person or organization. Anything that's substantially changed or different stands out like a sore thumb among the thousands of manuscripts we have and can be discarded as being authentic.
the "extra" catholic books aren't considered on the same level as the regular books. Trinity is in the modern Bible, just in different verses.
@@Xenotypic
How can the Bible be consistent as you claim when there are so many many contradictions and conflicting verses?
@@farookdinaully8029 re-read his post.
Right Jay! They weren’t being persecuted or anyone attacking thr libraries. Try being fed to the lions 🦁, like the early Christians, for 300 years!!! Under those conditions, I think 🤔 we have great EARLY STUFF & THOUSANDS OF MANUSCRIPTS TO DO THE TEXTUAL CRITICISM!!!
Spot on
YES!!! I often think about that and its mind boggling how much early stuff we have and under those curcumstances is nothing short of but protection and guidence by God himself!!
Indo .Productions AMÉN 🙏
The question is original Bible and the modern versions of the Bible are same or not? Unfortunately the answer is NO. Viewers, please view the following link from 3.40 minutes. This link provides you Informative information on the subject.
ua-cam.com/video/U8lRzGHrPC0/v-deo.html
@@angodaatththeagnanasara8656 my friend .Two things I want you to grasp first before we examine the divinity of Jesus ....There is no connection of message between Mohammad and Jesus other than Mohammad deciding to put Jesus name in the Qur'an to give it authentication and secondly After Jesus spoke perfect truth there would have been no reason for God to send another person with such a confused message who was so sinful whilst Jesus was perfect ....!! Now I'm happy to reveal to you the divinity of Jesus if you want an honest discussion in our seeking of truth .can we do that ? In love Mark
Chester beatty was a geologist who literally found a gold mine. He spent his money collecting sacred materials and donated it all to the irish state.
Ofcourse, that's not the whole story. The historical account of textual transmission for christianity is far better than that of Islam.
@Jidsein Sabdani, PROVE IT!
@Jidsein Sabdani what's the exact background?
@Jidsein Sabdani Don't copy those stupid "dawah-claims", nearly every Muslim comes up with this one. If you look at the context and get to see the bigger picture then you would talk less. But since you have never read God's word, you can't know.
Repent brother and come to Christ. He is Al-Nur, the light of the world and the way, Al-Haqq (=the truth) and the life, no one comes to the Father but through him.
@Jidsein Sabdani You Muslims somehow always have educated Christians friends who doubt the Bible, it's so funny. What about Mary (mother of Jesus) being called the Sister of Aaron and Moses in the Quran?
@Jidsein Sabdani I've read it till the 4th chapter and God willing I will continue to read. Anyways, I will first finish with the true word of God, the Bible. You should also give it a try, no excuses on judgment day, my friend. God could ask you why you didn't read his book called the Bible.
the main thing here is Christianity isnt claiming their book is written by God. Where as Islam is claiming this.
Christians do claim that prophets were of the true God, and written with direct relationship to God.
This does differ from quran, written by fiction writers under orders from jyesuits which are a subsect of catholic empire. Not the church of catholikism. Many confuse the two. One is the military and conquest division of Rome , which did not become extinguished, but centralized in underground wealth of Rome empire family.
The same rulers of wealth are the keepers of ancient treasure. These secret rulers of wealth are also secret society members, templars etc. They have full copies of every cultural artifact and religious writings, as evidence for their existence and validity. It's what gives them power as well. Why? They seek more of the world's treasures. Greed produces more greed
I would define it differently. We Christians (and I think Jews too) say that the Bible is inspired by God (i.e. Holy Ghost) whereas Islam says the Quran is the direct, uncreated word of Allah. Quran also claims it is perfect preservation whereas the Bible doesn't - which doesn't mean that it wasn't nearly perfectly preserved of course.
@@abashedsanctimony154 What is christ ?
Christ means (annoited by God)
What is christian
Christian is (annoited by the Holy spirit Of God)
Who Jesus (Son of Mary)
Who is Jesus Christ ( Son of God )
What is Holy spirit (God)
What is Spririt of Truth (God)
What is spirit of rightiousness(God)
What is the spirit of Love(God)
What is spirit of Forgiveness(God)
etc...
Then what is God? (He is a spirit)
So God is a spirit and worship him in spirit of Truth
How can we see God (by Jesus christ)
Jesus is not God?(God give jesus all the spirit from him without limit)
So we are also spirit dwelling in the Body(yes)
If we follow Jesus we also recieve the spirit of God ?(Yes)
What is anti christ?(Anti "means agaist" Christ means "Annoited By God")
If we folllow Jesus we also recieve the name of christ?(Yes You will be annoited By the Holy spirit of God and you will be called christian you are not from this world anymore)
What about prophet(God annoited them with spirit of truth and rightiousness)
ah wow ok truely God is infinite 😇
@@abashedsanctimony154 Please stop spreading false information regarding the Catholic Church and the Jesuits. Ignatius of Loyola didn't form the Jesuit order until 1539, almost a thousand years after after the birth of Mohammed. Our enemies love all these black legends about the Church that have been circulating among protestants since the Reformation because they keep us suspicious of each other. There is no better way to keep control of people than to have them do your fighting for you.
@@jonwolff8222 Jesuits were created early 300's. Possibly earlier evidence is insufficient, as with all secret society information
May God bless you and your ministry Dr. jay smith.you explaine this topic so well that average English speaker like me also can understand it.This video is really informative.Thank once again.
Dr Jay Smith, you are a big thorn in the flesh of mono followers. Thank God for having people like you around. May God bless you guys as you fight this battle against the Antichrist and his agents to submission.
Thanks Dr Jay Smith for your work. Do have a great New Year!
Thank God He gave us His Church, which He is Head!
Indeed under the authority of Peter!
@@Basaljet the Chief Cornerstone, Jesus Christ!
@@mainlandgardens3611 thumbs up. He gave Peter the keys!
😂😂😂😂😂😂 the scripture of God in the old testament predates the boy raping cult of Rome by thousands of years... The new testament is built on the old testament...
@@Basaljet when Jesus said, the gates of hell shall not prevail against his church, he was not talking of the boy raping cult of Rome ..
I still wonder if there is some earlier bibles that were hidden when persecution was taking place and books were being burned that are still out there waiting to be discovered in some cave or underground somewhere.
Same thinking have been going on in me.
Thank you. Great video. I watch your videos and they are very informative. Thank you for all your work
Excellent, work, Bro. Jay !
Now i see why this question is so damaging to Islam. Thank you Dr Smith for the explanation.
@Muhammad Ali nice try abdol
Muhammad, its all the same😊
@Muhammad Ali we don't discuss these matters in public ahki 🤣🙃 just remember "The standard narrative has holes in it, that's all I'm gonna say"
Nice try abdul
@Muhammad Ali your false prophet is burning in hell
With the fragments of the renewing covenant ( New Testament ) within the first century A.D. we can make it all, except for 9 verses, the earliest fragment we have is a portion of Matthew, dated to 40 A.D. 🕎🌏🌍🌎✝️
Which fragment is that?
@@user-ez9is7lb9p part of the genealogy of Ye-hua Je-us, written in Hebrew. 🕎🌏🌍🌎✝️
@Testament Faith 🤔
@Testament Faith what about the gospels most of the letters and the book of " revaluation of Ye-hua Ha-Massiach or Je-us Chr- st. 🕎🌏🌍🌎✝️
@Testament Faith in your answer you said " gospels 70-90AD "🤔 that is the first century, also Revaluation was written by disciple of John, before the end of the century 🤔🕎🌏🌍🌎✝️
Bravo!
Merry Christmas 🎄and a Happy New Year...!
God bless!
What they dont seem to understand is that Christian history lines up perfect with the timeline and what we know happend.
Yes it makes sense! Ex.- reference to Tiberius, events ( political unrest in Judea), other local religions ( Greek temples), places like Athens, Corinth, etc. Especially hostiles against the Christians wrote about them. So yeah, it all comes together.
Madelyn Ostolaza yapp 💯
Amen everything lines up with the word of God . Archeology.,History ,eyewitness accounts and there has been no one like Jesus.!!! And Jesus fulfilled every prohecy !!! .And his message was life changing ...We know that Jesus lived ,died and rose again 😀😃😀😃
@@reigns77. Thinking the NT is unreliable is saying like Napoleon never existed, just stupid.
@@antiworld-ir8luI'm sorry did I say the new testament was unreliable !!! How dare you cast that untruth upon me . Repent in the name of Jesus ...
It's The word of God and completely reliable.
I forgive you ...
I was an ex brutal criminal
So instead of revenge I now have love
Have an amazing day
And if you have not yet ,give your life to Jesus 😃
Happy new year
Second one here... Happy New Year!
Good stuff. The best parchment is vellum baby calf skin the animal being drawn from the womb of its mother before birth. Even now or until recently British government legislation was still recorded on vellum. If you go to the shrine of the book in Jerusalem you can see one of the complete scrolls of Isaiah from the Dead Sea scrolls contemporary with the time of Christ. I think it is 40 feet long it would have used the equivalent number of skins. In other words a whole herd of animals that would have been very expensive indeed despite the preparation work that is required. What is interesting is to see the transition from scrolls to codex/book forms which occurs most significantly with the early Christian New Testament. This is very much more complex as you need a way to fasten and bind the papyrus leaves and the act of turning the pages makes them fall to pierces but this would have made the text more accessible and transportable. The effect of early Christian New Testament technology has an important effect in the story of books themselves. Note the Dead Sea scrolls are precisely that. Just as the Hebrew Scriptures used in liturgical worship in synagogues remain today. Jay we still need to address that memorial stone from the end of the 7th century which appears to name Mohammed and a form of the shahada from 691. I have mentioned previously in recent comments. God bless
Thank you, Jay, for expanding my knowledge, amen and may God bless your loved ones and you in Jesus's name.
I love you Jay Smith I'll be watching you for years now since I became Christian, I learned a lot with you thank you for what you do... 🙏🙏🙏
Happy new year Jay Smith . May Lord bless your work .
Excellent material, you are doing incredible work, you are blessed to do this wonderful job to make us about all these informations. I am thankful to my Lord And saviour that we have you and all brothers and sisters to do this tremendous work to lead the people to Christ Jesus. God bless you all .
Dr Jay thank you for your wonderful narration.
God bless
Happy new year
The question is original Bible and the modern versions of the Bible are same or not? Unfortunately the answer is NO. Viewers, please view the following link from 3.40 minutes. This link provides you Informative information on the subject.
ua-cam.com/video/U8lRzGHrPC0/v-deo.html
Thank you dear God's servant, God bless you abundantly by his grace and wisdom.
Muslims will click first to see this video by seeing the title .
But surprise, surprise
Jay is here 😄😄
@Jeff 😆😆
@Jeff 🤣🤣🤣 i cant
But... But... But... It's Not like mohammad was a P3do-Rappist or anything!........
Wait........ No.... Nevermind........
@Jeff 😁
@Jidsein Sabdani
Your name is the pet name of
My Sewage Holes.
Which is nothing compared to the holes In the Quran...🤫🤫
God bless you Jay Smith!
Muslims also forget that the collection of writings from the early church fathers (that pre-date these 3rd and 4th century completed manuscripts) contain quotations that can be used to re-constitute the entire New Testament all its own. Talk about a wealth of evidence, something the Quran cannot even begin to hold a candle to when compared. Muslims did light candles to burn their own conflicting manuscripts though...
What collections do we have written down from within 100 years of Jesus death and resurrection?
@@publunch344 the whole New Testament was written within the first century.
@@publunch344, complete collections, I don't think we have any, but I believe a portion of the writings from the early church fathers came from within the first 100 years. However, based on what is written in all the manuscripts we have, and none of these are originals for the exact reasons Dr. Jay Smith has explained, we do know that the entire New Testament was likely written within 100 years. Well, it's not likely the authors would have lived more than 100 years after the death and resurrection of Christ. Also, we do know that the Temple was razed in 70AD, and when many of the apostles were executed or passed away. Overall, having 30,000 manuscripts portions does help with establishing textual consistency.
Thank you for addressing my question Dr Jay.
Wonderful job sir HAPPY CHRISTMAS and new year
The question is original Bible and the modern versions of the Bible are same or not? Unfortunately the answer is NO. Viewers, please view the following link from 3.40 minutes. This link provides you Informative information on the subject.
ua-cam.com/video/U8lRzGHrPC0/v-deo.html
@PfanderFilms Jay, awesome vid. Thanks for clarifying this detail without which it is easy to assume that what applies to one applies to the other.
Jay Smith you should also investigate the missing parts excluded sitting in Ethiopia. Good job. We favour bible as it is no matter how it is and we allowed to question it
Great point Dr. Smith. Codex Vaticanus, Codex Sinaiticus and Codex Alexandrianus are all ancient biblical manuscripts existed centuries before Mohammed. And they still can be viewed in libraries and museums around the world, while the original quranic manuscripts from the 7-9 centuries are non existent.
May God bless you Dr. Jay Smith
Paul, speaking to Timothy, while being in his second Roman incarceration, wrote him saying to come to him at Rome and bring ‘the books’, especially the PARCHMENTS... Paul dealt with the Antiochian scriptures, and these manuscripts are the basis of the TR and KJV Bible. None are of the Alexandrian source from Egypt. Year of 2 Tim 4:13? ~66 AD. Do not think Islamist have a case saying that fragments of papyri are all that we have to publish the Bible. Nor did Diocletian collect absolutely every one of the Christian parchments to destroy them.
God bless you j smith. Love you🙏💖
It's a good point about the type of material used for the manuscripts, since papyrus would decay, but more important for me is that the Caliphate existed as a state for a very long time before it built an official mosque in 690 and more years passed before it produced a preserved Quran manuscript that resembles the versions today.
They had the power, the means, and the materials to produce an official Quran. Where is it, if they consider the Quran to be an all important Book?
Christianity was a persecuted religion until the 4th century and only became a state religion towards the end of the 4th century, yet there are complete manuscripts from that very time.
Furthermore, the Christian NT books are either narrative stories or historical epistles, whereas the Quran is a disjointed group of verses with little to no relation to one another even in a surah.
If one finds the fragment of a Quranic surah, this can't confirm the remainder of the surah, whereas a fragment from a NT book confirms the book as a whole because it is a logical story or argument.
Furthermore, the NT was not preserved in one location or subject to one authority, but was copied and sent all over the world to every church to be read in the services, and translated into other languages as well.
There was no single authority that could control this distribution of the NT.
This mass of witnesses confirms the reliability of the NT more than any other book from antiquity by far.
This is contrasted by the Quran which was produced by a state under a single authority. Why did they take so long to produce their religious Book, especially since they claim it is the very thing their religion intended to produce?
There are Christian manuscripts that date from the 7th century that come from churches under the authority of the Caliphate. Why no Quran?
Another point is that much of the NT is recorded in many other writings from the NT era going forward, without any break in continuity. There are a huge number of such witnesses to the Scriptures in other sources.
Again these writers are from all over the world and not under any single political or religious authority.
Finally, it should be pointed out that there has been no controversy amongst Christians from all over the world as to the books and texts of the Bible.
There has been no attempt, God forbid, to burn copies of the NT to ensure that one manuscript tradition remains and the others are destroyed.
This means that there is a reliable and honest witness amongst all manuscripts, whether used by heretics or the Orthodox.
Don't forget the huge numbers of heresies that also copied Scripture and used them. Yet there is a single NT tradition.
Finally, Christians never called themselves the people of the Book, but rather the followers of Jesus Christ.
The NT was not the purpose of Jesus Christ becoming man, or the Apostles teaching the Gospel. This is a totally different mentality from Islam.
Christians do not depend upon the books of the NT but upon the living Word of God, whose message is very simple.
God the Word became a true man, was baptised by John, preached repentance and the Kingdom of God, healed the sick, cast out demons, gave us Holy Communion (the New Testament), died on the cross, and rose bodily from the dead on the third day, in order to make humans like God the Father, who is love, by means of the uncreated grace of God the Holy Spirit working through the glorified Body of Christ, the Church.
The Gospel is simple: love God with all your being and love your neighbour as yourself. As we forgive others their sins, so God forgives us our sins. This is the whole Gospel teaching.
As for worship, the Christians drew heavily from the book of the Psalms, from the OT. This is the same book used by the Jews since before Christ.
The existing Hebrew manuscripts match the Greek manuscripts, with minor differences as one would expect from a translation and hundreds of years.
Similarly, though Christians copied and reproduced the Greek OT, they did not control in any way the Hebrew OT, which again is very close to the Greek.
The same OT that points to Jesus Christ can be read in the Christian Greek OT or the Hebrew OT.
The difference with Christianity is the diversity of the witnesses.
Even the Quran testified to the validity of the Gospel, the first four books of the NT, and the Torah, the first five books of the OT.
For any claim about some fabrication of Scripture, who can show any manuscript or some source that shows or claims such fabrication?
There do exist fabrications that claim Apostolic origin, which are called Apocryphal, which the Christians rejected.
No scholar of any tradition, that I'm aware of, thinks these fabrications were authentic.
Wishful thinking in rejecting the canonical books, just like atheism in general, relies on arguments of: there is not enough evidence for me to accept the canonical claims, rather than evidence to the contrary.
The only evidence to suggest that the collection of the canonical books is not complete, is that one letter of St Paul has been lost. But then again, the Christians never claimed the NT was the whole and complete revelation of Jesus Christ.
One has to wait 1500 years for Protestantism to make such claims of Sola Scriptura.
For Christians, the NT books were a written record of Christ and his Apostles, but by no means a complete collection of God's revelation.
That is not a doctrine Christians were defending or promoting.
The Gospel existed in oral and written forms, and was preserved by God the Holy Spirit in the Church. That is what Christians believed.
The preservation is not in the words or letters of the text, but in the message written in the hearts.
Again, here is that Gospel: God became a man to make humans like God. It's very easy to understand and pass on, yet it stands as an offence to the devil.
The Dome of the Rock has suras inscribed in stone but they also don't match what is in the koranus.
@@two_tier_gary_rumain Exactly. That is archaeological evidence of inconsistency in the holey Quran narrative.
However, the inscriptions also show that the Abbasids tried to claim the building as their own, rather than crediting the Umayyads, by altering the inscribed evidence.
There is clear proof that the Abbasids meddled with the Islamic narrative.
Which leads me to believe that the theory about Uthman and the Quran is a fabrication, and that it was probably the Umayyads who started producing, editing and burning texts of the Quran, and had the mosque in Jerusalem as the Kaaba, before it was changed to Mecca.
What we know about the early Caliphs and Muhammed is that they were a confederation of tribes (Muhammed was married to their daughters) that took over regional control of the areas they conquered, while acknowledging an overlord figurehead.
They did not adore Muhammed, they also made sure he had no heir, and they killed each other to become caliph instead of the caliph.
The Caliphate did not become a proper unitary state until the Umayyads forged it and forged Islam.
To put it another way, Islam was invented by the despised Umayyads to counter the Christian Romans, and the Abbasids tried to hide that fact by inflating the roles of Muhammed and the earlier caliphs, where they could, and their own roles, where that was possible and advantageous.
@@Josdamale Sounds very plausible.
Watch anthony buzzard's debate is jesus god although you are right about a lot of things but jesus is not god
I find it amazing that people although less every year still believe in any of this,
The Quran does not stand up to scientific, historical, textual nor moral scrutiny ... It does not have any real and meaningful answers to offer mankind on the biggest and most important question regarding God, the origin and meaning of the universe, the origin and purpose of man's amazing existence and where man is really going and will be in eternity future. But it makes huge claims though, which are all unsupported and quickly falls apart when honestly examined. Strange that muslims want to go to the Bible constantly to try to defend Islam ... if they say that the Bible is corrupt while the Quran is perfect preserved, divinely protected, unchanged, and clear about everything in heaven and on earth.
It’s clear you have never read the Quran and I’m pretty sure it’s Christian apologists who love to hide behind Islam and Quran, the only thing I heard from this vid is confirming that their are no original manuscripts but that’s not the problem, the thing is the Bible unlike,e the Quran doesn’t have a chain of narration from its original form or was memorized in any way...ua-cam.com/video/j1WikcSvRR0/v-deo.html
@@alphafles8556 Why don't you address his claims directly? Your so-called chain was developed over a hundred years after Mohammed. Where is your hard evidence, rather than heartsay? Where are your 7th century parchments? Why do your traditions contradict your claims so much? If we researched Islamic claims beyond the so called chain, the whole thing falls apart, like ancient papyrus 🙂.
@@ak4j247 the chain starts from mohamed pbuh btw, here is a brief of the process ... ua-cam.com/video/n281Zyywyn4/v-deo.html
@@alphafles8556 Actually there was a oral tradition in the Judeo-Christian community even before the gospels were written.
@@antiworld-ir8lu full Bible? Chain of narration ?
Thanks Jay your Audio is much better coming in clear.
I moved away from my Samsung phone, whose sound everyone was complaining about, and used my old Apple phone, which gives me this clearer sound. Go figure!
@@pfanderfilms cheap USB mic's are available for 30 bucks or so.
Big fan from Abu Dhabi, BTW!
@@pfanderfilms And, if you do not mind, could you speak a little bit slower? We, who do not speak English as mother language, would be grateful!
@@pfanderfilms, strange, maybe the setting is wrong or its a bad mic not all are the same you can get ones to suit your voice, the clip on mic may be too close to your mouth maybe try lowing in all putting it on the far side of your chest, it was muffled with your big deep husky voice, maybe you can experiment with it with a friend to sort it out, the new one is louder than this one just its too muffled. I been following your work for a bit over a year now and I love how you explain and unpack the evidence, so easy to understand it. God Bless you brother in Christ. Peace and Love.
We all grow up learning the Bible and theology from a spiritual perspective onky until I was an older adult did I realize I didn't know it from a practical perspective. I had been deep in rediscovering before I realized that I was seeing practical side that the authors was conveying. Preachers Sunday school are great to grow up and get it in to your heart but taking a scholars approach as an adult is every bit as amazing. Especially if you also learn history of each age around everything. The orginal texts plus. It truly is an amazing gift. I even feel like Tisdales English translation had to be inspired as his poetic choices maintain message but enhances it. Truly blessed
Brilliantly put by a true keeper of truth.
May God bless u Boss.
THANKS FOR INFORMATION
Great work Mr. Jay, Got many knowledge and information from all of your videos
The question is original Bible and the modern versions of the Bible are same or not? Unfortunately the answer is NO. Viewers, please view the following link from 3.40 minutes. This link provides you Informative information on the subject.
ua-cam.com/video/U8lRzGHrPC0/v-deo.html
Moreover we have around 90 % of the new testament preserved through the quotations in the letters of early church fathers.
Hallelujah 🙏🙏🙏
Thank you for your clarity. Where are those parchments.......?
jay I is good to see you here at this time coz I missed you a lot and it has been long to me since I last Saw you. I priude of you and hatun especially by your work of Speaklers corner
Don't forget the "sell all you have" combo
Hmmm nice study with Jay
Great Video Dr. Smith
The Castle owners would give the skins of animals to the local Monks.They would turn the skins into parchment and use it for the Bible.
Actually, a lot of book-producing monasteries had their own flocks too.
A monastic life was not a JESUS' prescription, instead He commanded His Disciples to GO ALL AROUND THE WORLD TO TEACH OTHERS, MAKING NEW DISCIPLES...
Then as Centuries passed, the new organized church introduced human commandments making a new Religion away from the original JESUS of Nazareth:
Then they rejected JESUS' Jewish heritage.
wgt
Thanks for explaining that Dr. Jay! I never knew this. God bless 🙏🏾
The question is original Bible and the modern versions of the Bible are same or not? Unfortunately the answer is NO. Viewers, please view the following link from 3.40 minutes. This link provides you Informative information on the subject.
ua-cam.com/video/U8lRzGHrPC0/v-deo.html
Just another excue for people to rebel against God.
I couldn't agree more 👍
@@yakovmatityahu God is not the jerk nonbelievers make him out to be; its my belief that Ha-satan tricks people
With pleasure run away from God's love.
@@alphonsofrett2757 you said the truth ...those who don't want to submit themselves to God would always find reasons to run from him...by giving stupid arguments like god doesn't exist... there is no sin... homosexuality is not wrongs and you have my truth and I have my truth
@@yakovmatityahu Ha-satan is tricking people to jump in the fire! This is very frightening.
@@alphonsofrett2757 just now I wrote a comment to some Atheist he told me that religious people are being controlled and manipulated...I told him that for me it's a good thing to be controlled under God rather than being controlled under satan
Excellent presentation
Appreciate Jay. Well done
Excellent analysis explaining the relevant facts of the True which is Christianity and the Lie which is Islam!
Constantine was recorded as commissioning 50 codices to allow major Churches to have master copies for all associated smaller churches in their dioceses, from which to make also lectionaries for public readings in the Liturgy.
The fact that alot of people in the comment are opposing shows that the caption drew alot of unbeliever....it worked
Thanks for your awesome work Dr. Jay! God bless you and yours. 👍🏻✝️
Wow, interesting, they have:
i) late parchments
ii) holes in the narrative
iii) holes in the text on the parchments which are either blotted out/struck out/inserted/overwritten
It looks like people are not having the same book found in the eternal stone tablets claimed by them, wait a minute, is this whole stone tablet thing a rip-off of the 10 commandments story, wow!!!
Of course! The stone tablet idea is a rip-off of the 10 commandments.
You have the Chester Beatty discovery, P66 on the Gospel of John, P 75 is very close to Vaticanius at the Library in Rome. The New Testament is well attesed and can be compared from one manuscript to another. Most of the mistakes in copying are spelling errors, name changes, or the rearangement of words. But the alteration of the content of stories. Hardly, or they would have shown up sometime in history.
In addition, these teensy pieces are like jigsaw puzzle pieces 🧩. They can still be lined up against later versions. If this happens enough it shows there has been consistent transmission anyway even if there aren’t full manuscripts.
This logic is true for the koran and bible.
The bible has thousands of these bits. How many consistent bits does the koran have.
Good. I wait for love from you 💝💖
Slightly different reason for the falling out of use of papyrus: Rome lost control of the only producer of it; Egypt.
Also the Parchment that followed the 3 Biblical Manuscripts had to have been 400 - 700 years Newer and Processesed much much better with quality...being able to withstand the Age of Time ... ???
I really appreciate your explanation ❤️ GOD BLESS your concerns about muslims that the long period of time had stick to the thinking that they have a prophet and they elevated this man level to ALL GOD! We know very well that satan tempted Jesus, he wants Jesus to kneel down and worship him, but failed , imagine what an ambitious! In Isaiah also hé was kíck out and thrown here,, but then his trick was successful with Mohammad ? So that Christ believer will be scattered and able tó trick Judas to sell Jesus to high priest , that's why until satan is corrupting every ages in all, all forms to keep away ALL God fearing souls and keep ALL muslims to reject Jesus " THE WAY , THE THRUTH , AND THE LIFE " , satan is the source of all miseries of humans who are now following him,, what a disgrace! ! !
Eternity in FIRE 🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥
Absolutely great video!
The question is original Bible and the modern versions of the Bible are same or not? Unfortunately the answer is NO. Viewers, please view the following link from 3.40 minutes. This link provides you Informative information on the subject.
ua-cam.com/video/U8lRzGHrPC0/v-deo.html
@@angodaatththeagnanasara8656 The difference is that Christianity has a much more solid foundation than Islam. You don’t even have one standard book anymore.
You claim the Qur’an is the word of God and yet your earliest complete book comes 100 years after Mohammed. There’s not even one Qur’an from Uthman in existence.
Now let’s look at the different Qur’ans:
Compare Sura 2:125 in Hafs with the Warsh Qurans.
Hafs has this: “WatakhIzu” (You shall take) but in Warsh it is “WatakhAzu” (They have taken/made).
The Hafs version gives a command, while Warsh states a historical observation. Same verse but different words used and different meanings rendered.
This is just one example between two versions out of thirty with over 93,000 differences between them.
Do you know how many verses are there in the Quran? You will find that number of verses in Hafs is 6236, while Warsh has only 6214 verses.
Which one is the right version? Which one did Muhammad recite?
Which one matches the eternal preserved tablets that are with Allah?
If I give you a piece of paper and ask you to write me Sura 2:125 which version will you write down?
Did you know the the official version of the Quran (Hafs) was only finalized in 1924 in Cairo, Egypt? It was only authorized officially as recently as 1985, in Saudi Arabia.
Why did it take 1300 years for the world to finalize and authorize the Quran, if there has always been just the one and the same Quran all over the world?
Blessings.
Thank you Jay.... Amazing insights.... Important information.
What is the apologetic for the later church's claims in relation to the First Council of Nicaea? We were told there was a great controversy and in the end only one attendee voted against the new concept of the Trinity. Yet the next week everyone was still Arian Christian and Athanasius was arrested and thrown into prison and exiled for his opposition to Arian(Marcion?) Chrestians. Including Constantine and his family, both of the known Eusebius church fathers, and remained so until at least the time of the death of Constantine. No matter how it is looked at or tangled, the claims of the Medieval Church tradition simply don't make any sense.
Well done Dr Jay
The question is original Bible and the modern versions of the Bible are same or not? Unfortunately the answer is NO. Viewers, please view the following link from 3.40 minutes. This link provides you Informative information on the subject.
ua-cam.com/video/U8lRzGHrPC0/v-deo.html
Yes please do this. Don't focus on islam, we know it is not from God and written by jewish sect and Hagarens, it is just a distorted view came from 7 century milieux. we need to be anchered on Christ, our savior.
According to our apostle paul’s ministry in The King James Bible,we are only saved by believing The Gospel of Jesus Christ,1st Corinthians Chapter 15 verse 1-4.Jesus Christ died on the cross,shed His Blood for all of our sins,was buried and rose again on the third day.Jesus Christ Shed Blood is what saves you when you believe this plan of salvation with your heart.
The interesting fact is that manuscripts do exist from the earliest pastors so that even if the Bible were not to exist it could be reassembled from the manuscripts of the early church. One reason God allowed no early manuscripts to survive, along with no descendants of Christ was to avoid the worship of those items and people. Remember Jesus said Faith comes from HEARING not seeing. We HAVE attestation from the Dead Sea Scrolls etc. The Old Testament gives verification of Christ, His claim of Deity etc just in the writings of Isaiah alone.
Muhammad himself had his own number of Quran writers, and he was the first to compile the Quran, not Abu Bakr .. This is how the hadiths tell us .. But Islamic clerics do not like to focus on these facts, of course man can tell why, such like: where is that Quran that Muhammad has collected? or what makes abu bakir to collected quran again after that, and why Othman needed to do the same later?
Muhammad did not wrote he couldn't even write do your research
Love the way you explain
Mindblowing information
Could you please tell me who knew Jesus that wrote any of the NT books, letters?
( I don’t count Paul. He never met Jesus.)
Say, the TRUTH is God is ONE. (Quran 112, verse one)
The whole of Islam in one simple statement. You are welcome.
Islam is dying And Allah is Mohammed, n Mohammed is Allah therefore Allah is man. Man cannot be God. Quran is garbage.
@@ishamanankitlakra8120 Your statement is clearly a cry to find true faith. Please brother i welcome you to Islam the only truly monotheistic faith and the best way to worship the one true God. You're welcome.🙏💕
I dont want to follow a sexual god, sorry abdol! You can take my virgins instead of me. Good luck with them
@@supersleeper8545 How can Al-Lah, who is part of the Qureshi polythestic religion, with his daughters and 300+ other Gods be one?
@@mattbla8567 No vision can grasp him, but His grasp is over all vision: He is above all comprehension, yet is acquainted with all things." (Quran)
Islam emphasizes that God is strictly singular (tawḥīd); unique (wāḥid); inherently One (aḥad); and also all-merciful and omnipotent.
His Mercy encompasses all of creation including me and you.
God does not become a Man or three. If you reflect you will see that only in Islam is God truly to be found in a clear way. I pray that you find the truth.💕💕💕
Papyrus are fragile, so they would not last centuries while intact. But, fragments can be found, though not from 60 - 100BC.
Also, its known that many were destroyed deliberately. So they did exist.
Has any of you compare the old quranic verse found in Birmingham to the verse in the quran today?
The verse is from surah to-ha.
Please post your videos Rumble
Excellent points!
The question is original Bible and the modern versions of the Bible are same or not? Unfortunately the answer is NO. Viewers, please view the following link from 3.40 minutes. This link provides you Informative information on the subject.
ua-cam.com/video/U8lRzGHrPC0/v-deo.html
@@angodaatththeagnanasara8656 that is simply not true. We have manuscripts from the 3rd century and fragments of manuscripts even earlier. The text from those verify the validity of the text today.
What about clay? Where any scriter on clay tablates?
Very good analysis.
Blessings
Since Islam claims that the original tablet of the Quran is in heaven, why can't they just ask Allah to resent it instead of giving excuses? Surely Allah would oblige as he promised to guard it.
What is the purpose of the quran set in a tablet in heaven? Unless Allah suffers from amnesia.
Further, the Bible is an anthology of many different writings. I was a long while before there were all combined into single volumes.
This seems contrary to other contentions that Jay has made. I've heard him talk about how with the Quran they only have text that's dated 100 years after Mohammed, then he makes the distinction that the bible was written by people who met Jesus, or their students... But if you can trace the text to 60 years from Jesus' death that would mean you have documents from that time. This video debunks his own point of tracing the bible to 60 years from Jesus.
Parchment are very costly that, chuch used to lock the Bible using change to prevent thieves from taking them away.
Constantine iir was emperor of what remained of the Roman empire which was east of Italy.
incorrect
Is this topkapi the same way as the todays Quran?
Not to forget the Cochin Hebrew NT, all books
Praise be to Jesus Christ
Five huge and durable copies of the single most important book in Islam, the "Perfect, preserved, protected, unchanged spoken word of God," yet none can be found today. Islam created the a false standard, and then destroyed the evidence which proves the standard to be false.
1. Rome's Vaticanus & Sinaiticus both have the corrupt Apocryphal books which convienantly supports her heresies.
2. Neither has undergone scientific analysis by an independent source.
3. Both have "appeared" from Rome with no historical provenance.
4. Two false witnesses also spoke against the Word made flesh (Jn 1:14).
Matthew 26:60 KJB -
"At the last came two false witnesses,"