Terry's Breechloading Carbine: Used by Hussars and Confederates
Вставка
- Опубліковано 27 лип 2024
- / forgottenweapons
Cool Forgotten Weapons merch! shop.bbtv.com/collections/forg...
This capping breechloader was patented in the UK by William Terry in 1856, and adopted (in limited numbers) by the British military in 1860. Approved for cavalry use, it was issued to the 18th Hussars, and also bought by a variety of colonial organizations in New Zealand, South Africa, and elsewhere. In addition, it was used to some extent any the Confederacy; both J.E.B Stuart and Jefferson Davis had Terrys in their possession when taken into custody.
Mechanically, the system is a bolt action, with a two-lug, rear-locking rotating bolt. It uses a paper cartridge, the base of which is a thick greased felt pad to provide obturation. Not more than 20,000 were made between 1860 and 1870, when the company shut down. Unlike the Sharps (for example), Terry’s system was not really able to be converted to use metallic cartridges, and so sales dried up as the self-contained metal cartridge became widespread.
Contact:
Forgotten Weapons
6281 N. Oracle #36270
Tucson, AZ 85704
An early experimental breech-loader which, unlike so many others, actually got accepted for military service. Not in massive wholesale contracts, for sure, but it had its day in the sun. Very neat.
I love how Ian always refers to guns in his videos as “this guy.”
It’s wholesome
I'm waiting for some sort of outrage about how Ian is "not respecting their preferred pronouns".
@Dalle Smalhals I remember many nights spent hugging Emma and resting my head on Alice (M-16 rifle and ALICE pack). It seems characteristic of soldiers to name their weapons and sometimes other gear after women from Davy Crockett's Ol' Betsy to Paul Tibbets' Enola Gay. Some cultures -- Scandinavians, for example -- tended to give their swords more warlike names but certainly since the advent of firearms it's been a common theme. I don't know exactly why, but it does imply that soldiers are a lot alike across culture, time, and place.
Viper 2-1 Yeah, very folksy. Like an inanimate object is a buddy.
Assuming gender ? That's it close the channel down !
Ian, you should carry parchment and some rubbing wax to make rubbings for illegible engravings and stamps.
Remember that Ian has to handle the guns how the owner of the gun prefers, and he does look at some pretty vintage guns.
I'd imagine not everyone would be willing to let Ian rub wax all over their expensive gun, even if the wax wouldn't damage it.
@@Drew_42 You put the paper on the surface, and rub the paper with the wax. The wax then deposits on the paper (mostly) on the 'raised' surfaces, or flat, if you will, and will leave the engraved 'recessed' areas untouched, and so legible on the paper. Nothing would technically be rubbed on the gun, though I suppose you could argue that is only a technicality, as the gun would be "getting rubbed" by wax, even though it was through a layer of paper. But yeah, whatever. Probably a kind of pointless and needlessly enthusiastic way of seeing what is stamped on the surface of something. *shrugs*
@@Celebmacil Brass rubbing has a long and storied history in Europe, however, some monuments are off-limits for rubbing due to age and wear. I did some rubbings many years ago, a fine-grained rice paper, and charcoal were my mom's favorite materials for rubbings. She started doing that after a trip to England with my dad.
Crayon and paper *
I use lead pencils to do rubbings.
Get as much lead to stick out as you can (under a half Inch of stickout works good) and rub with the side using light pressure on the paper.
H. M. Ridley, retired. Dated 27th May, 1899H.M. Ridley retired from the 7th Hussars on the 27th of May 1899 as a Brevet Lieutenant-Colonel. I see the RIA listing has much more information on his service and the those who gifted him the Terry & Calisher. In November 1899 he was Mentioned in Despatches in the South African War when Major Brevet Lieutenant-Colonel 16th Battalion of the Imperial Yeomanry as an officer of the Reserves, having retired as above.
J.E.B .Stewart was not captured, he was killed during the battle of Yellow Tavern in1864. A very neat rifle, thanks Ian.
Given their heavy use by the Forest Rangers and Armed Constabulary here in New Zealand during the NZ Wars, I have been waiting to see a Terry Carbine on this channel, thank you!
Von tempskeys rangers used these
These where valued as bush rifles, more accurate than the 'tupara' double barrelled shotguns and easier to manage than enfield rifle.
@Matt allen Could they nod cover the cartridges with wax?
If them terries get froggy, we're gonna get hypothetical on their clavicle! We're gonna draxt them.... sklounst!
You sound prepared.
We gonna draxt. Thems. Sklounst.
We lookin for terries
HELL YES! I was gonna make this moronic joke, but assumed nobody would get it. You, sir, have my deepest respect.
@@YCCCm7 what can i do to get these jokes? they seem funny but i dont know why
" for sealing or obturation, as it's more properly called"
"Ridley was there... different person than Ripley"
This is class. Total insistence on complete accuracy about even the smallest of points. Well played, as usual.
Believe it or not
My father was in the regiment, which descended from the 18th Hussars, the 13th/18th Royal Hussars (QMO).
I hope Ian gets his hands on a Norwegian "Kammerlader" one of these days.
IRV 8888 has recently released a YT video featuring a rebuild Kammerlader , Mark Novac is a guest and did the resto , I enjoyed it , I hope You will also .
His video on the postførerverge knife-pistol is mone of my favorites. Mostly because of the imposible name. The Madsen Forsøgsrekylgevær is another good one.
Damn I love this channel
Rip and tear
I can see development of the Mauser action in this.
Sweet gun Ian another nugget of gun gold. Thank you sir.
"nugget of gun gold" :')
I've been waiting and hoping to see this here for a long while, ever since I read of a trial where this gun fired some 1800 rounds without needing cleaning, on account of that oiled pad.
Unfortunately, I haven't found the trial record itself yet, but if its true that's a hell of a feat for a black-powder rifle.
In a long letter to the Examiner published Saturday 29 October 1859, someone who signed himself Caveto said: "Terry's rifle was fired 1,800 tines successively on board the Excellent, and at the conclusion showed no symptoms of being foul. Of this the certificate of Captain Hewlett is the proof". (He'd called it Terry's carbine earlier in the same letter). "Caveto" kept himself busy writing letters promoting Terry's carbine, and in the same newspaper earlier (Saturday 27 November 1858) he'd said that "Terry's carbine was fired 1,800 successive times ten times in a minute, ... It never missed fire, and at the conclusion was in no need of any process of cleansing whatever". In another letter he said that the Terry carbine was only £4/18s/0d compared to the Westley Richards at 7 quid a pop. Maybe he wasn't an impartial witness?
@@Charstring I'd like to get the formula for the lube they used.
@@frizzen A brilliant comment by you, it’s very true. They didn’t seem to publish that information for some reason. Some people used the gun with Westley Richards cartridges, but I don’t know anything about those. I was just reading a very long and interesting letter from Allan Macfarlane of the South Australian Free Rifles corps published by The Examiner on Saturday 12 October 1861. He was also a fan of Calisher & Terry breech-loaders, and said that he never bothered to clean the bore of his one, he just cleaned and oiled the breech and wiped the outside of the barrel. Maybe people emphasised that aspect because they wanted to underline the advantages of breech loading. Macfarlane said that muzzle-loaders got fouled at the breech end and that caused problems which the breech-loader was relatively immune to. He had a lot of practical stuff to say about the use of guns by soldiers as well, and mentioned that loading a breach-loader was less intimidating that loading a muzzle-loader, particularly with the bayonet fixed...
Good lube can do wonders for a BP gun. I once saw a guy put 120 or so consecutive rounds through a Dreyse needle gun with no noticeable impact on operation.
I guess this could be a parting gift to Ridley from his coleauges in the 52nd. As a officer he would have to provide personal weapons in any case, and if your friend is leaving to be a hussar, giving him a embelished hussar carabine with a plaque to remember you by is a excellent gift.
He would have to supply his own sidearms i.e. his sword and pistol. He could draw a long arm from the armoury if needed on service. Or use his own if it used the same ammunition. In this case it looks like his fellow officers gave him a Terry & Calisher if he was off to the Hussars.
Odd- I can't find anything about Stuart being captured. Perhaps Ian meant when he was killed.
Yeah, I was going to say Stuart wasnt captured. Perhaps he is thinking of a different Confederate general?
"Well... that was _like_ arresting him."
- Atomic Robo
Ridley directed the character Ripley in the movie "Alien", that's all I know about that. And I'm gettin' the family back into business! Get it right this time!
Heading down the "paper cartridge" rabbit hole now.
Thanks for an interesting review Ian! i'm following your Chanel for quiet some time, it is always a pleasure Sir.
I’m just here for the Key and Peele references.
I'm impressed buy the bolt technology used. Good work.
The Terry action was also modified and used in the Russian Terry-Norman rifle, as a conversion mechanism for Russian muzzle-loading rifled muskets.
That is a neat design, reminds me on the Knight breech loaders. I wonder if the felt also provided a bit of water resistance for the load.
Uh no its a paper cartridge you cant get them wet.
True when it's in the pouch, but when loaded the grease at both ends is likely better than a common patched ball in a typical muzzle loader.
@@Blazer02LS once loaded yea, your probably right.
@@MrLoobu I mean at least you'll still have ONE shot if you fall into the river
i wonder how it works with the touch hole.. is the paper cartridge completely closed when the gun is ready for firing? does the primercap produce that much fire/pressure to burn through the paper? or is it ripped open before loading (seems unhandy)? or is there some kind of thing inside the rifle that rips open the cartridge?
because if you actually fall in the river with your rifle loaded i can imagine that the hammer might get smacked and the rifle go off..
but with no cap to seal it (or obturate) i can imagine some water getting into the chamber. probably not enough to ruin all the powder, but the part that gets wet is the part that should get ignited by the cap.
I always find the woodworking on pre-industrial age stocks incredible, the work that most have gone in on that chequering!
The London Underground system opened in 1863, around the same time this gun was developed. The industrial age was well advanced by this time.
@@Brookspirit Well, I didn't know the tube was so old. You got me interested, makes me wonder what kind of train they even used back then.
@@lucasduque8289 en.wikipedia.org/wiki/London_Underground#Early_years
@@lucasduque8289 trains are actually badass
Stuarts carbine was a gift from a British officer who also gave Stonewall Jackson an India rubber bed.
Excellent video...the calisher & terry was also used by volunteers in Australia in the 1860s...the wrist apparently was a weak area, breaks and repairs are often seen there.
love the interesting intermediate weapons like this
Looks like the Terry would do well in a mud test, at least for a gun of it's vintage.
I wish I had seen this when it posted three years ago. Some of those rifles that were bought by the "Cape Mounted Rifles" made their way to the "Natal Carbineers" in the Colony of Natal just up the coast a ways from the Cape of Good hope. They were used in the "Langallibalele" revolt of 1873 in which said Carbineers, utterly failed to distinguish themselves in their first major action. Interestingly being led by a Major Durnford, who six years later would get himself killed and most of his command wiped out by the Zulus at "Isandlwana". The skirmish itself was a minor affair in military terms but fought in a spectacular part of the Drakensberg Mountains on the border of Natal and Lesotho. And a good lesson in hubris and the importance of preparation and intel in the planning of military adventures lest they turn into "mis-adventures" very quickly.
THEN THE WINGED HUSSARS ARRIVED!
Coming down the mountainside
My thought exactly hahaha
I knew as soon as he mentioned Hussars I'd find this down here
Only after they had been to Hell And Back though :)
Sabaton rocks 💪🏻
Thank you , Ian .
Forgotten Weapons: *Uploads*
Me: *Clicks*
Title: *Has Hussars in the title*
Me: _THEN THE WINGED HUSSARS ARRIVED!!!_
@@TheRealColBosch
The repetition of memes is spontaneous and the reason itself of their existence...you cannot have a meme and not being repeated in similar situation.
@@TheRealColBosch Y'know if you didn't like what I commented, you should've just ignored it.
@@enricopaolocoronado2511 there's that, but you know, there's a more general counter argument: if everybody just ignores the things they don't like happening, they will be happening unopposed.
I don't think you want that.
@@tomaszwota1465 No I do not.
The guy's reply came off as rude and something an asshole who wants to end happy fun times would say.
This was the carbine used by the famous Von Tempsky Forrest Rangers in the NZ land wars of 1863 onwards. There is one in the NZ Army museum in Waiouru.
Von Tempskeys men also carried navy colts and Bowie knives
@@joelmonkley6177 As did many people in those days
Before Terry got into making chocolate oranges ...
Tap it and unwrap.
Nostalgia. Used to get one every Christmas.
An amazing and really beautiful (...and sadly...) "forgotten weapon". Many thanks dear Ian, for bringing it from "cruel oblivion".
(BTW., I would like to have six bros like Mr. Ridley... ;) )
Beautiful weapon very cool loading method too.
the wood looks gorgeous
This is a beautiful, wish I had the liquidity to bid on it. Most "innovations" in firearms are solutions in need of a problem, but this is a really nice way of dealing with a breachloader pre-metallic case.
imagine being so early with mass producing a certain design feature that you can name your company after it
Like Union Metallic Cartridges.
I rented the movie River Queen (2005) literally just because Kiefer Sutherland had one of these on the cover.
Imagine the modern equivalent, a heavily engraved l-85 bought as a presentation gift from his mates, he a glorious sight if only that kinda thing still happened
Quite a lovely wallhanger.
you make my day, gunjesus
And here I thought all Terry made was chocolate oranges.
honestly think it's odd there weren't more prominent capping breach-loaders, would've honestly made a lot more sense than the needle-rifles as a "transitional" gun.. similarly I find it odd how few used/attempted to utilize some kind of "intentionally re-loadable" cartridge, though I know the "coffee grinder" crank gun used something of that nature..
These were widely used by colonial police, prisons etc here in Australia. You often see them in museums and they also regularly come up at auction. It was great to see this video as I had never seen the action operated.
That action is a pretty slick design.
merry christmas Ian
That's a whole lot of actions to fire this gun. And yet it's still a lot faster than an muzzle loading rifle
"If we translate that to something a little less archaic..."
*Translates it to inches*
lol
just a little less. not that much less hah
As a middle aged American man I am quite versed in our measurements but even I must admit we should have long ago transitioned to the metric system. At this point I think we refuse to convert to metric out of spite of something. I can however transition between the two systems but sympathize with those that have no knowledge of our "archaic" system of measurements.
Brandon Riedel Honestly it’s even more mixed up in Canada. We officially went metric over 40 years ago, and while I usually usually think in metric, I would be unable to tell you, offhand, my height and weight in CMs and KGs.
Now if you ask in inches and pounds that’s absolutely not an issue.
Distances are also extremely arbitrary, meters, yards, feet, inches, centimetres, millimetres, fractions of an inch, etc are all commonly used. The one imperial thing I have never bothered to wrap my head around is liquid measurements: the relationship between a fluid ounce, a pint, a quart and a gallon is completely foreign to me, and I actually just convert those amounts into litres to get an idea of the quantity.
Essentially, the two systems coexist in perfect disharmony and you end up constantly converting from one to the other. For reference I’m 18 so it’s not even like I grew up with the Imperial system.
'Murica.
J.E.B. Stuart was captured? I find no record of that, but I don't have a detailed biography. I found once when he was almost captured and lost part of his uniform (Northern Virginia Campaign). If he was ever captured, he escaped, because he died in combat. Also, about that felt pad -- was it pushed forward by inserting the next cartridge? If it was tight enough to obdurate, seems like pushing it forward might crumple a paper cartridge. They must be sturdier than I imagine.
little trick for hard to read things on stuff:
take a thin sheet if white paper, lay it over the part with the markings and then rub a pencil(not the pointy end but its side) or a piece of coal gently over it.
JEB Stuart was never captured. He was mortally wounded in combat but recovered by his own men.
This is true. He was shot in a cavalry skirmish at Yellow Tavern in 1864 and died a short time later. Did Stuart have one of these on him at the time he received his fatal wound? If so, it would seem that he armed himself well, with the LeFouchaud pistol and this carbine. However, it sounds suspicious since cavalry generals did not seem to normally carry carbines. Interesting.....
@@bohica3264
I always heard he was armed with a LeFouchaud pistol and an 1860 Henry rifle during Yellow Tavern (the battle in which he was mortally wounded)... although I'd have to refer to some of my history books/sources to be 100% sure one way or another.
Ian may be right that J.E.B. was armed with this particular model of gun when he was mortally wounded, but he is wrong about J.E.B. being captured... He most certainly was mortally wounded at the Battle of Yellow Tavern.
General officers typically only armed themselves with self defense weapons. The ethos was that a commander's job was to lead, not fight unless necessary. That having been said, Stuart was an unusual commander and saw himself as a cavalier, so he may very well have carried a carbine as well as a sabre and pistol. This piqued my curiosity, so I'll look further. I know Ian researches his facts independently of any auction company's literature, so there has to be something to this.
Thank you Rock Island for the link.
Silas Porter how did u comment 15 hours before the release?
@@zero_meercat8624 Patreon
@@zero_meercat8624 patreon supporters get early vids. I really am surprised people still don't know this
Terry-Norman needle rifle was adopted by imperial Russian military in 1866, quite similar to this, earlier design.
Didn't last long, however, as it was replaced by metallic cartridge-firing Krnka rifle the next year, and by the Berdan No1 rifle the year after that.
I would much rather have a Zündnadelgewehr. This has one additional step in the loading process by comparison.
Yeah, reaching for your capper would be a slight inconvenience. God forbid you are using loose caps.
I found a service record for a private named Henry Ridley 52nd Regt (service no. 1256) who was discharged 30 April 1841.
William Terry sounds about as generic as James Bond
The name's Terry. William Terry.
I never heard of a Terry. Interesting.
$5K-$7.5K estimate - it'll be interesting to see where the bidding ends for this one. Very cool.
It'd be pretty funny being sent into battle with this. Guys carrying Enfields and all that and you're walking around with a Terry.
Seeing how the bolt handle on this folds makes me think, are there any cartridge based bolt actions that have a folding bolt handle? It would be an alternative to the turned down bolt handle for cavalry use, where instead it could be unfolded to a straight bolt handle to give you better leverage and accessibility than a fixed turn down. Obviously it would be more complicated and potentially fragile, but it seems like the sort of thing that somebody would have tried at some point.
@Jay Leno That's my point, if you made a gun with a folding straight bolt handle it would be out of the way when not in use, but give you the advantages of a straight bolt handle when using the rifle. I imagine it would have some issues, but it would surprise me if nobody had ever even tried it considering some of the weird stuff that is out there. I would put money on it that somebody has tried it, probably even vastly over complicating it with something like folding the bolt handle de-cocks the striker to safe the gun and unfolding it re-cocks it.
Not a bolt action but there is one for the scar.
IIRC also used by the New South Wales Mounted Police (in Australia)
Thats a surprisingly modern looking stock.
"If we translate this to something less archaic (...)" Proceeds using imperial measurements😂
I have read of a "Terry" being fired over a thousand times without needing cleaning. in a test.
Then the Winged Hussars arrived.
so lovingly sweet and high tech.
Perfect opportunity missed. "I wish we knew more about who Ripley was there, or Ridley was there. Different person from Ripley, BELIEVE IT OR NOT"
Does the spark get through the paper case ? It must be fairly thick to remain intact with the likely rough handling it'd get.
When the side door closes does it pierce the case?
Sigourney Weaver enters the chat, "I'm not going back to LV-426 Ian!"
Jeb Stuart was not taken into custody. He was killed in combat.
Yep! J.E.B. Stuart was killed in action at the Battle of Yellow Tavern in Henrico County, Virginia on 11 May 1864. He was dead before the War of Southern Secession ended. He therefore was NOT taken into custody.
Alos used by Adelaide volunteer rifles in South Australia
Used by the mounted military elite of Europe, of strong breeding and having gone through the finest of European military academies. Top of their class and a gentleman, scholar, and officer before even being the finest of the mounted soldiery.
Also Jethro.....from Kentucky. He can bullseye a possum from 400 yards. 500 when sober!
kentucky was union, cheeky....
@@heatmojo you're right, I always mix them up with Tennessee. My apologies to Kentucky and the fine, crack-shot Jethros that inhabit it
Also the Texan sharpshooters of Texas
Is it still possible to find bullets for something like this for target shooting? It seems kind of sad that this thing will probably never be used again, considering how pretty it is and how much history it has.
This would be perfect to drax lem sclounch on some Terries with.
Uhhhhh sure
Nice rifle.
Looks like a pretty solid system.
So how exactly did soldiers keep the paper cartridges dry?
I get that had a wax coating on them.
They were carried in waterproof pouches in sealed packs of 10 and each cartridge came in it's own sealed paper casing with a linen tape tear off to open them.This also protected the greased felt wad glued to the back.
@@johnfisk811 Thanks
When the squirrels and chipmunks hire a buffalo to eliminate you after you've been shooting at them with that Tippman .22, use this to defend yourself.
Fire from cap has no problem going trough the paper cartridge?
That's what I wondered. It could have a horrific lock time while it burns thru to the powder - unless you run a pick down the flash hole before capping (like they do for black powder cannons). I'd like to see Ian shoot this one.
so the flame of the percussion cap burns through the paper cartridge and ignite the powder? Is that flame that "strong"?
The butt plate looks exactly like my grandfather's British-made Confederate, calvary, rifled carbine in .66(my closest guess).
Was there an accessory kit? I suppose youd want a punch for the felt, Molds and
Didn't he said that the felt would have been pushed out by the next bullet?
Still probably it had a cleaning kit.
@@1r0zz back then you bought a gun like that youd usually get an accessory kit that would allow you to make your own cartridges. Even metalic cartridge guns would have reloading tools and molds
@@johnstacy7902 sure, i wasn't doubting that.
But i guess in ~150 years those can be lost, unfortunately.
It does not look like it would be too difficult make it load and extract metallic cartridges but getting the hammer to hit the new primer would be a right pain.
Could be made into pinfire by making the hammer hit a second lever that strikes the pin.
Did I miss it ? How was the paper cartridge "opened" in the breech to make the powder accessible to the flash hole ? Or was the cap detonation enough to pierce the paper and ignite the powder in one go ? Some of the breech loaders using paper cartridges had a mechanism to sheer off the rear of the cartridge and expose the powder ...
Burns right through the paper in the middle much like a Westley Richards Monkey tail.
Probably used nitrated paper, that was a common trick for this sort of thing. If you soak the paper in saltpetre let it dry, the paper will burn almost like gunpowder.
Old firearms are always fasinating.
Those last few moments of the video where make an unintentional Alien movie reference.
Favourited by the Armed Militia during the New Zealand wars as the battles were done in the wet bush of the country. Much quicker to use in fire fights
Armed constablary
I wonder what the slot in the breech is for.
Very cool
Excuse my ignorance but how did the pad shoot out of the barrel if it was behind the powder? How didn't it be pressed against bolt face and stay inside?
From The Observer (London), 13th Oct. 1867: "From the LONDON GAZETTE of FRIDAY, Oct. 11 ... [then, thirty-three lines down a column of very small dense text reporting hundreds of changes in unit leadership] ... -- 52d : Ens [Ensign] Lord C.R. Pratt, from the 43d Ft [Foot], to be ens, v. [vice] H.C.M. Ridley, who ret." Apparently this Pratt replaced Ridley, who retired. Seems this Terry Carbine was a kind of "gold watch" for Ridley. Pratt, transferred to the 52nd Foot, was replaced in the 43rd Foot by "John Peirse de la Poer Beresford, gent."
In 1882, The Sacramento Daily Union listed the names of a number of emigrants due to arrive May 18th. One of them was an "H.C.M. Ridley, England". Same guy?
I wonder what the powder charge was? The loading gate seems short.
2 Drams or 55 Grains
Stuart was killed at Yellow Tavern in 1864
Man RIA has a little bit of everything
So that is the predecessor to the M41A.
I want one for blackpowder season.
This is the gun you use when you see some terries trying to get froggy.
Can you make a video about wz.35 ur?
But the lever action Henry repeater. Was still a head and still made today